Most children: 13 - Samwise Gamgee & Rose Cotton
October 23, 2012 1:05 AM Subscribe
Wow, I expected the English professor to be caught off guard here, but there is no way this curve got to be that smooth by accident. I wonder if the sketch is somewhere among the unpublished papers.
posted by hat_eater at 2:28 AM on October 23, 2012
posted by hat_eater at 2:28 AM on October 23, 2012
CI bars around LE? Come on. Everyone knows that for a measure such as life expectancy it's more informative to show the IQR.
posted by The White Hat at 5:06 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by The White Hat at 5:06 AM on October 23, 2012 [2 favorites]
Damn, I love unadulterated geekery. Anyone know if there's some sort of out-of-the-box application that makes the pretty interactive figures?
posted by smirkette at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by smirkette at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think the hobbits are winning.
They may have won the war(s), but the Shire was still scoured. We shall always remember the Scouring.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2012
They may have won the war(s), but the Shire was still scoured. We shall always remember the Scouring.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2012
I think it's clear Men are the winners in the long run.
Great link, thanks!
posted by Chrysostom at 8:17 AM on October 23, 2012
Great link, thanks!
posted by Chrysostom at 8:17 AM on October 23, 2012
Did they really spend that long at Rivendell in LOTR? Guess it's been a long time since I've read the books.
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:20 AM on October 23, 2012
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:20 AM on October 23, 2012
Taken together, the stats create a pretty good argument for including Tolkien in discussions of British declinism in literature, in a way that I had not previous thought of it as.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:20 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:20 AM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
Did they really spend that long at Rivendell in LOTR? Guess it's been a long time since I've read the books.
Frodo was under the weather.
Per the division in gender, it made me wonder if Tolkien consciously focused on a majority of men versus women or if it was a subconscious reflection of the majority of history available at the time reflected the same spotlight on the male gender. Was Galadriel his Elizabeth I? Was it even a concern? How does the gender skew against the historic and mythological record of the time?
posted by Atreides at 8:59 AM on October 23, 2012
Frodo was under the weather.
Per the division in gender, it made me wonder if Tolkien consciously focused on a majority of men versus women or if it was a subconscious reflection of the majority of history available at the time reflected the same spotlight on the male gender. Was Galadriel his Elizabeth I? Was it even a concern? How does the gender skew against the historic and mythological record of the time?
posted by Atreides at 8:59 AM on October 23, 2012
smirkette:Looking at the source code, it's all done with jQuery.Anyone know if there's some sort of out-of-the-box application that makes the pretty interactive figures?
posted by ob1quixote at 9:28 AM on October 23, 2012
pure win
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:35 AM on October 23, 2012
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:35 AM on October 23, 2012
Frodo was under the weather.
Yes, but I didn't think he required quite that length of convalescence. Then again, I've never been stabbed with a Morgul blade.
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2012
Yes, but I didn't think he required quite that length of convalescence. Then again, I've never been stabbed with a Morgul blade.
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2012
Then again, I've never been stabbed with a Morgul blade.
It really itches.
A LOT.
posted by Atreides at 11:49 AM on October 23, 2012
It really itches.
A LOT.
posted by Atreides at 11:49 AM on October 23, 2012
Aside from Frodo's recuperation, the time is for scouts to try and find the Nazgûl-it would hardly have done to have left with the ring and been immediately captured. A cloak and their horses are found, but no riders.
Out of universe, Tolkien had originally planned on late November as the departure date, but ended up pushing it a month to make it line up with some other plot points.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:00 PM on October 23, 2012
Out of universe, Tolkien had originally planned on late November as the departure date, but ended up pushing it a month to make it line up with some other plot points.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:00 PM on October 23, 2012
Out of universe, Tolkien had originally planned on late November as the departure date, but ended up pushing it a month to make it line up with some other plot points.
Symbolism more than plot points: the Fellowship departs on Christmas Day (and, the Ring is destroyed on the Feast of the Annunciation).
posted by wilko at 1:13 PM on October 23, 2012
Symbolism more than plot points: the Fellowship departs on Christmas Day (and, the Ring is destroyed on the Feast of the Annunciation).
posted by wilko at 1:13 PM on October 23, 2012
That would seem reasonable, but there is a good deal of evidence against this. Referring to Hammond and Scull's The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, Tolkien's notes show he thought the November date meant too much happened in winter, and additionally, the scouts didn't have enough time. And in an interview, he explicitly denied the Christian connection.
That's not to say that JRRT didn't push the departure to late December for plot reasons, and lined it up with Christmas Day for added oomph. But the initial reasoning seems not to have been symbolism.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:31 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
That's not to say that JRRT didn't push the departure to late December for plot reasons, and lined it up with Christmas Day for added oomph. But the initial reasoning seems not to have been symbolism.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:31 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
wasn't the Encyclopedia of Arda sufficient?
posted by RockyChrysler at 7:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by RockyChrysler at 7:26 PM on October 23, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” --TolkeinI rather suspect any allegorical elements are more a manifestation of the dominant culture he was writing in. (I've always loved this quote)
posted by smirkette at 9:45 PM on October 23, 2012
That quote always struck me as pretty harsh, given it's a not so veiled jab at C.S. Lewis and Narnia.
On the other hand, The Last Battle is about as subtle as a sledgehammer, so fair enough.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:40 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, The Last Battle is about as subtle as a sledgehammer, so fair enough.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:40 AM on October 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
Per the division in gender, it made me wonder if Tolkien consciously focused on a majority of men versus women or if it was a subconscious reflection of the majority of history available at the time reflected the same spotlight on the male gender. Was Galadriel his Elizabeth I? Was it even a concern? How does the gender skew against the historic and mythological record of the time?
I think (and this is only my theorising, rather than claiming any authority) that it's more to do with the circles he moved in. Tolkien's school, university and Army days would all have involved socialising mostly with boys and men. He then spent the rest of his working life as an Oxford don, in the days when all Oxford colleges were single-sex. There were women's colleges whose students might have attended Tolkien's lectures, but the only students to enter his room for tutorials would have been male, as well as all his faculty colleagues.
So Tolkien would have been accustomed to a social world comprising mostly men. He was deeply devoted to his wife and daughter, but he also had three sons-- so even his home contained twice as many male as female residents. Given those statistics, his superabundance of male characters is hardly surprising.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:11 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think (and this is only my theorising, rather than claiming any authority) that it's more to do with the circles he moved in. Tolkien's school, university and Army days would all have involved socialising mostly with boys and men. He then spent the rest of his working life as an Oxford don, in the days when all Oxford colleges were single-sex. There were women's colleges whose students might have attended Tolkien's lectures, but the only students to enter his room for tutorials would have been male, as well as all his faculty colleagues.
So Tolkien would have been accustomed to a social world comprising mostly men. He was deeply devoted to his wife and daughter, but he also had three sons-- so even his home contained twice as many male as female residents. Given those statistics, his superabundance of male characters is hardly surprising.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:11 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:06 AM on October 23, 2012