Mages didn't do enough research on climate change
March 14, 2013 11:23 AM Subscribe
Tropical Skyrim is an overhaul mod that transforms the icy province of Skyrim into a tropical area. Here's a short showcase video and a longer video.
Oh, that is gorgeous. One of the things keeping me away from Skyrim is the ugly-ass (but lovingly realized) taiga it takes place in.
posted by griphus at 11:32 AM on March 14, 2013
posted by griphus at 11:32 AM on March 14, 2013
The showcase video makes Skyrim look like Temple Run. All it needs is the screaming carnivorous monkeys.
That is a compliment, by the way.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:37 AM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
That is a compliment, by the way.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:37 AM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I wonder if Vilod is still making those Piña Coladas with guavaberries mixed in.
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 11:38 AM on March 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 11:38 AM on March 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
How much work was something like this?
posted by procrastination at 11:38 AM on March 14, 2013
posted by procrastination at 11:38 AM on March 14, 2013
I have to say, I loved the taiga. The harsh winds, the caves full of ice, watching the wind whip over the ice-encrusted sea... great stuff. And ugly? I can't agree. Just yesterday I was overlooking the southwestern corner, having cleared Dead Crone Rock, and what a spectacular view.
That said, the art direction of Oblivion was ass and I'm now annoyed in retrospect that I wasn't crawling around a jungle. (Although hey, I hated that game anyway, so whatever).
posted by selfnoise at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2013 [8 favorites]
That said, the art direction of Oblivion was ass and I'm now annoyed in retrospect that I wasn't crawling around a jungle. (Although hey, I hated that game anyway, so whatever).
posted by selfnoise at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2013 [8 favorites]
One of the things keeping me away from Skyrim is the ugly-ass (but lovingly realized) taiga it takes place in.
Milk-drinker.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:51 AM on March 14, 2013 [9 favorites]
Milk-drinker.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:51 AM on March 14, 2013 [9 favorites]
Former game developer Michael Kirkbride wrote a minor text rationalizing the change within the game, wherein Emperor Tiber Septim uses CHIM to bring a temperate climate to the region.
According to lore, Vehk used CHIM and went back to his birth and recreated himself as a god so that he had two existences as both god and man - hence his new name, Vivec, or "Vehk and Vehk." Little is it known that he went back a third time and recreated himself anew.
posted by charred husk at 11:55 AM on March 14, 2013
According to lore, Vehk used CHIM and went back to his birth and recreated himself as a god so that he had two existences as both god and man - hence his new name, Vivec, or "Vehk and Vehk." Little is it known that he went back a third time and recreated himself anew.
posted by charred husk at 11:55 AM on March 14, 2013
charred husk: The results were hideous.
posted by codacorolla at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I loved the lusher parts of Skyrim, but without a doubt the most stunning parts of the game happened up north, where the whiteness became oppressive, and the color of everything seemed to fade to greyscale. Water so dark it almost ran black... mmm, I miss it.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
@Rory, I was wandering around up there just a few weeks ago and had similar thoughts.
You reminded me of a funny moment where I was trying to get back up the cliffs to Winterhold (after emerging underneath the College after a quest), wandering along a rocky beach in a blizzard, looking for a pathway upwards. Suddenly there was a loud groaning yelp, and IRL I jumped -- it was a Horker of course that I had strayed to close to. Just completely invisible in that landscape.
Astonishingly good game.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:04 PM on March 14, 2013
You reminded me of a funny moment where I was trying to get back up the cliffs to Winterhold (after emerging underneath the College after a quest), wandering along a rocky beach in a blizzard, looking for a pathway upwards. Suddenly there was a loud groaning yelp, and IRL I jumped -- it was a Horker of course that I had strayed to close to. Just completely invisible in that landscape.
Astonishingly good game.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:04 PM on March 14, 2013
Is there a mod to replace the Dragur with interesting things?
posted by The Whelk at 12:16 PM on March 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 12:16 PM on March 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
Is there a mod to replace the Dragur with interesting things?
Yes, it's called "playing Dead Space instead"
posted by mightygodking at 12:21 PM on March 14, 2013
Yes, it's called "playing Dead Space instead"
posted by mightygodking at 12:21 PM on March 14, 2013
My husband and I play Skyrim, and we both think it's possibly the most awesome game we have ever played. But, we play it on Playstation, which ... to put it mildly ... has issues. I recently started telling him about the Skyrim modding community for the PC version (and bemoaning the fact we don't have a PC capable of running the software, at least not well), and after I showed him some still images of retextured armor, he began talking of building a gaming PC specifically to play Skyrim. When I show him these videos, he'll want to build it this weekend.
Not that I think the environment in Skyrim isn't beautiful. It is. I love it. But after so many hours wandering the same mountains and valleys, it would be nice to see something different. I'm feeling a little snow blind. It would also be nice not playing it on the PS3.
I think I'll email my husband the link right now. Maybe I can be in tropical Skyrim by Monday!
posted by Orb at 12:31 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Not that I think the environment in Skyrim isn't beautiful. It is. I love it. But after so many hours wandering the same mountains and valleys, it would be nice to see something different. I'm feeling a little snow blind. It would also be nice not playing it on the PS3.
I think I'll email my husband the link right now. Maybe I can be in tropical Skyrim by Monday!
posted by Orb at 12:31 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
All it needs is the screaming carnivorous monkeys.
Shrunken, and slightly retextured, trolls.
posted by aramaic at 12:59 PM on March 14, 2013
Shrunken, and slightly retextured, trolls.
posted by aramaic at 12:59 PM on March 14, 2013
Astonishingly good game.
Yeah until you talk to somebody or start a quest or enter any location at all.
Astonishingly good world that makes how disappointing it is as a game frustratingly obvious.
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeah until you talk to somebody or start a quest or enter any location at all.
Astonishingly good world that makes how disappointing it is as a game frustratingly obvious.
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Blerg, I need to play Skyrim. I need to buy hardware to play Skyrim, and then I need time to play Skyrim...
Reminds me of the Morrowind mod which built trees everywhere- the idea being, it was 1000 years after Dagoth Ur was defeated, and the forests had grown over the mountain. It was pretty great.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2013
Reminds me of the Morrowind mod which built trees everywhere- the idea being, it was 1000 years after Dagoth Ur was defeated, and the forests had grown over the mountain. It was pretty great.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2013
Astonishingly good world that makes how disappointing it is as a game frustratingly obvious.
Well, yes. :)
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:42 PM on March 14, 2013
Well, yes. :)
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:42 PM on March 14, 2013
My god, that's amazing (and beautiful). It looks like it must have been incredibly labor-intensive to create.
posted by treepour at 1:49 PM on March 14, 2013
posted by treepour at 1:49 PM on March 14, 2013
Now if only someone could find a way to reverse the climate change that hit Minecraft back when Notch revamped the biomes and left my original sea-side fortress port--with it's artifical lakes, aqueducts, and emergency underground water slide access to the ocean--stuck in an ice age, covered with snow and all the water frozen solid.
posted by straight at 2:09 PM on March 14, 2013
posted by straight at 2:09 PM on March 14, 2013
I need to tell everyone this - if you're playing Skyrim on PC, then play it with the Frostfall mod. It makes being cold a deadly thing, while giving you a dozen ways to mitigate (but never defeat it). If you get wet deliberately or accidentally and don't have the means to dry out in time, you die in a few minutes.
It makes the frozen North of the map threatening and makes its lovingly realized landscape actually meaningful.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:42 PM on March 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
It makes the frozen North of the map threatening and makes its lovingly realized landscape actually meaningful.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:42 PM on March 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Though I guess freezing to death in the tropics would be a leetle bit weird.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:46 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Sebmojo at 2:46 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Skyrim (and Oblivion) is one of those things I just don't get. It's beautiful, but so are most AAA games. Traversing the landscape isn't as fun as in something like Just Cause 2, and the combat completely pales next to Dark Souls and the Witcher 2. Speaking of The Witcher, one NPC in that game has more personality than the entire population of Skyrim. I tried to get into it, to see what everybody was missing, but I finally traded in Skyrim last week. And since I'm on XBox, I can't get mods to fix the problems.
Four hours into Skyrim I was Archmage, and I got there by doing fetch quests. Nothing around me in the world changed.
I'm not trying to threadshit. I'm just not sure why such a popular game leaves me cold when I usually enjoy mainstream titles, as well as traditional fantasy (I'm hoping to pick up the special edition of Dragon's Dogma in April) and lands of ice and snow.
I guess nothing felt satisfying or weighty. Killing a dragon in Skyrim gives less sarisfaction than killing one skeleton in Dark Souls.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 2:54 PM on March 14, 2013
Four hours into Skyrim I was Archmage, and I got there by doing fetch quests. Nothing around me in the world changed.
I'm not trying to threadshit. I'm just not sure why such a popular game leaves me cold when I usually enjoy mainstream titles, as well as traditional fantasy (I'm hoping to pick up the special edition of Dragon's Dogma in April) and lands of ice and snow.
I guess nothing felt satisfying or weighty. Killing a dragon in Skyrim gives less sarisfaction than killing one skeleton in Dark Souls.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 2:54 PM on March 14, 2013
Man, I wish I had a gaming PC.
posted by brundlefly at 3:26 PM on March 14, 2013
posted by brundlefly at 3:26 PM on March 14, 2013
It really depends, Charlemagne. The most satisfying parts of those games are not doing the quests or really doing anything. They're fucking around in the world. Wandering around exploring. Playing around with asshole physics. Seeing what's over that next hill, because unlike in most games, you CAN go over that next hill rather than running into an invisible wall halfway up it because you're going off the tracks of the pre-planned content.
You were trying to play it like most RPGs where you accomplish things, when really it's designed for farting around doing whatever.
They're not my thing either, but I think that's the appeal.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 3:37 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
You were trying to play it like most RPGs where you accomplish things, when really it's designed for farting around doing whatever.
They're not my thing either, but I think that's the appeal.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 3:37 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
CiS, it's a little bit like that Truck Driving sim game I posted yesterday. In that case there's very little game there, but it's tremendously enjoyable to play for a lot of people.
Skyrim really shines when you make up a story for your little dude, and treat the quests as the rungs on a ladder you climb towards your conception of that story. And the rails are the experiences you have fulfilling the quest, the views, the surprises, the fights.
They're not great art, (though I don't actually think they're that bad) but they do the job of getting you out in the world and having those experiences that do approach art.
If you want to one-and-done the game, do all the guild/town quests and the main quests and finish it, the flaws in the Bethesda-style RPG will really beat you round the face. If you get into your conception of your dude/tte and follow that, it's tremendously immersive. Particularly if you get into modding, which is its own absorbing pastime.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:39 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Skyrim really shines when you make up a story for your little dude, and treat the quests as the rungs on a ladder you climb towards your conception of that story. And the rails are the experiences you have fulfilling the quest, the views, the surprises, the fights.
They're not great art, (though I don't actually think they're that bad) but they do the job of getting you out in the world and having those experiences that do approach art.
If you want to one-and-done the game, do all the guild/town quests and the main quests and finish it, the flaws in the Bethesda-style RPG will really beat you round the face. If you get into your conception of your dude/tte and follow that, it's tremendously immersive. Particularly if you get into modding, which is its own absorbing pastime.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:39 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I tried so hard to role play in Skyrim but god nothing changed ever. I tried to play as a pissed off magical university student who really could not care less about dragons but I never got the feeling I was accomplishing anything.
posted by The Whelk at 3:43 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 3:43 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yet another comment for Charlemagne:
I think of Skyrim as being a mile wide and an inch deep. You can be the Archmage, the Chief Bard, the head of the Assassin's Guild, and the head of the Thief Guild, all at the same time. It's just a stupid game in many ways.
The fun, at least for me, was mostly in wandering around and just seeing stuff. There is a lot to see. The world is huge, and very beautiful, in its stark way. But there's only like 12 voice actors, and the characters are just boring, boring, boring. The only interesting person in the whole damn game, in my opinion, is in the latest expansion... there's one guy in that who's quite entertaining, and very well voiced.
The character progression system is pretty good, the combat is decent, and the world is gorgeous. But there's very little depth and almost no consequence to the missions you do.
posted by Malor at 3:52 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think of Skyrim as being a mile wide and an inch deep. You can be the Archmage, the Chief Bard, the head of the Assassin's Guild, and the head of the Thief Guild, all at the same time. It's just a stupid game in many ways.
The fun, at least for me, was mostly in wandering around and just seeing stuff. There is a lot to see. The world is huge, and very beautiful, in its stark way. But there's only like 12 voice actors, and the characters are just boring, boring, boring. The only interesting person in the whole damn game, in my opinion, is in the latest expansion... there's one guy in that who's quite entertaining, and very well voiced.
The character progression system is pretty good, the combat is decent, and the world is gorgeous. But there's very little depth and almost no consequence to the missions you do.
posted by Malor at 3:52 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I never thought I could get tired of Amy Sedaris' voice but Skyrim proved me wrong.
posted by The Whelk at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2013
I tried so hard to role play in Skyrim but god nothing changed ever. I tried to play as a pissed off magical university student who really could not care less about dragons but I never got the feeling I was accomplishing anything.
posted by The Whelk
I really wanted to like the game. It was so beautifully rendered- it came alive like no other game had, for me. And then I began to learn that every nook and cranny has creatures threatening humanity- what kingdom? What place for mankind to rule? Where are the great warrior people of Skyrim?
So I did the main questlines and the bigger side quests and I concluded what you have- nothing ever changed. I restarted. I learned that I *can* make something change- if you ignore the main quest, the dragons don't come. Perfect! I made something change.
posted by Nadie_AZ at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk
I really wanted to like the game. It was so beautifully rendered- it came alive like no other game had, for me. And then I began to learn that every nook and cranny has creatures threatening humanity- what kingdom? What place for mankind to rule? Where are the great warrior people of Skyrim?
So I did the main questlines and the bigger side quests and I concluded what you have- nothing ever changed. I restarted. I learned that I *can* make something change- if you ignore the main quest, the dragons don't come. Perfect! I made something change.
posted by Nadie_AZ at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Skyrim really shines when you make up a story for your little dude, and treat the quests as the rungs on a ladder you climb towards your conception of that story. And the rails are the experiences you have fulfilling the quest, the views, the surprises, the fights.
I kinda did that. I was going to play a mage. The magiest mage who ever maged. And six hours in, I became Archmage, and had my own magical laboratory and apartments and archmage robes. I figure my character would have retired at that point.
It's not just the lack of story. I don't mind that if the mechanics are good, or the combat is satisfying, but Skyrim didn't have that.
I feel like Fallout 3 and New Vegas provide laboratory conditions for simulating the flaws in Bethesda games. Fallout 3 was huge and sprawling and had a zillion cool vaults to explore a really neat game environment, but the story was pretty much a generic fantasy story (or Taken in reverse) and there was a lack of care - even the unique weapons didn't have unique textures. New Vegas was smaller, but each area was more alive, and each NPC and even weapon was unique. I can't remember any NPCs in Fallout 3 besides Three Dog.
There's something to be said for focusing in on one area. Skyrim had so much stuff that nothing really stood out, but I bet that I'm not the only person who could draw Dark Souls' Lordaran from memory, or who has names of Witcher 2 NPCs stuck in his head.
Just Cause 2 is probably the only game that, for me, pulled off the 'beautiful place to fuck around in' trick and that's because the actual mechanics of moving around the world are so compelling.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:02 PM on March 14, 2013
I kinda did that. I was going to play a mage. The magiest mage who ever maged. And six hours in, I became Archmage, and had my own magical laboratory and apartments and archmage robes. I figure my character would have retired at that point.
It's not just the lack of story. I don't mind that if the mechanics are good, or the combat is satisfying, but Skyrim didn't have that.
I feel like Fallout 3 and New Vegas provide laboratory conditions for simulating the flaws in Bethesda games. Fallout 3 was huge and sprawling and had a zillion cool vaults to explore a really neat game environment, but the story was pretty much a generic fantasy story (or Taken in reverse) and there was a lack of care - even the unique weapons didn't have unique textures. New Vegas was smaller, but each area was more alive, and each NPC and even weapon was unique. I can't remember any NPCs in Fallout 3 besides Three Dog.
There's something to be said for focusing in on one area. Skyrim had so much stuff that nothing really stood out, but I bet that I'm not the only person who could draw Dark Souls' Lordaran from memory, or who has names of Witcher 2 NPCs stuck in his head.
Just Cause 2 is probably the only game that, for me, pulled off the 'beautiful place to fuck around in' trick and that's because the actual mechanics of moving around the world are so compelling.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:02 PM on March 14, 2013
Fair enough. While I personally think it's brilliant, there's no question it fails at being Dark Souls and/or TW2. It will be interesting to see if The Witcher 3 (which will be open world) will succeed in the areas where Skyrim didn't.
Out of interest, did you play on PC or console? With 200 hours on the clock I'm running around 100 mods at the moment (still haven't finished the main quest, must get to that some day). I very much doubt I'd have got there without being able to mod it.
posted by Sebmojo at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Out of interest, did you play on PC or console? With 200 hours on the clock I'm running around 100 mods at the moment (still haven't finished the main quest, must get to that some day). I very much doubt I'd have got there without being able to mod it.
posted by Sebmojo at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm a huge RPG fan. Love Skyrim. But I hate the fact that you can go swimming in seawater crusted with ice, get out and be none the worse for wear. The idea that you can swim in a lake where there's even a little snow around and not die -- without some supernatural protection -- is really infuriating to me for some reason. And no, I'm not gonna download some mod that gives me hypothermia. I have enough mods and the fact that you can swim AT ALL in frozen sea water makes even a hypothermia mod seem stupid.
Why oh why do so many fantasy stories/movies/games end up in an icy, subzero hellhole where you couldn't survive for a day? I know it's all a leap of faith. But please oh please make the next TES in the Summer Isles or something. Why does it always have to be bleak, cold shitty and snowy? WHYYYYY?
posted by jeff-o-matic at 6:22 PM on March 14, 2013
Why oh why do so many fantasy stories/movies/games end up in an icy, subzero hellhole where you couldn't survive for a day? I know it's all a leap of faith. But please oh please make the next TES in the Summer Isles or something. Why does it always have to be bleak, cold shitty and snowy? WHYYYYY?
posted by jeff-o-matic at 6:22 PM on March 14, 2013
Just Cause 2 is probably the only game that, for me, pulled off the 'beautiful place to fuck around in' trick and that's because the actual mechanics of moving around the world are so compelling.
But the story there is really stupid, and wow, the voice work is bad. The game mechanics themselves are fun, but you really have to ignore everything layered on top, because it sucks.
Skyrim is more.... it's a place to go see, it's not a very good actual game. But there's so much to see that I've put over a hundred hours in. And the Dark Brotherhood quests are fairly interesting, in a way that nothing else in the base game is. But those are only, I dunno, maybe two hours? Three?
posted by Malor at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
But the story there is really stupid, and wow, the voice work is bad. The game mechanics themselves are fun, but you really have to ignore everything layered on top, because it sucks.
Skyrim is more.... it's a place to go see, it's not a very good actual game. But there's so much to see that I've put over a hundred hours in. And the Dark Brotherhood quests are fairly interesting, in a way that nothing else in the base game is. But those are only, I dunno, maybe two hours? Three?
posted by Malor at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm a huge RPG fan. Love Skyrim. But I hate the fact that you can go swimming in seawater crusted with ice, get out and be none the worse for wear. The idea that you can swim in a lake where there's even a little snow around and not die -- without some supernatural protection -- is really infuriating to me for some reason. And no, I'm not gonna download some mod that gives me hypothermia. I have enough mods and the fact that you can swim AT ALL in frozen sea water makes even a hypothermia mod seem stupid
But people do it. In Russia.
And while I respect your unwillingness to press a button and fix the thing you hate, you might be pleasantly surprised. You die in... 20 seconds? Icewater is goddam brutal in Frostfall. I wouldn't know any more because I never get wet in the game. Water become inimical, rather than a screen effect.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
But people do it. In Russia.
And while I respect your unwillingness to press a button and fix the thing you hate, you might be pleasantly surprised. You die in... 20 seconds? Icewater is goddam brutal in Frostfall. I wouldn't know any more because I never get wet in the game. Water become inimical, rather than a screen effect.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
And somewhere, the great-great-grandson of Forstaag the Sweltering is thinking "By The Nine, I came back to the homeland to try to get away from this."
Seriously, in terms of breaking the in game lore, this is right up with the mod that turns Alduin into Randy "Macho Man" Savage. I suppose that's why this type of mod (and it's predecessors like the green wasteland mods for the FO3/NV that came before it) always tickles me a little. I'd never install one on my own game, but they're wonderful examples of how the community can take the tools the developer hands out, and use them to break the rules with creativity and style.
posted by radwolf76 at 9:30 PM on March 14, 2013
Seriously, in terms of breaking the in game lore, this is right up with the mod that turns Alduin into Randy "Macho Man" Savage. I suppose that's why this type of mod (and it's predecessors like the green wasteland mods for the FO3/NV that came before it) always tickles me a little. I'd never install one on my own game, but they're wonderful examples of how the community can take the tools the developer hands out, and use them to break the rules with creativity and style.
posted by radwolf76 at 9:30 PM on March 14, 2013
My god, that's amazing (and beautiful). It looks like it must have been incredibly labor-intensive to create.
Yeah, that's what gets me. It seems like such a change that if someone took this mod as a baseline and built some proper quests in, you'd have a whole new game. They could call it Elsweyr.
posted by ersatz at 2:57 AM on March 15, 2013
Yeah, that's what gets me. It seems like such a change that if someone took this mod as a baseline and built some proper quests in, you'd have a whole new game. They could call it Elsweyr.
posted by ersatz at 2:57 AM on March 15, 2013
Since I was too timid to try this out myself (it's so large that it's bound to conflict with most other mods sooner or later), I convinced my brother to install it. His paraphrased review: "It's nice. The effect is skin deep of course, and despite the effort there are still odd things like trees in the middle of the road. But, it's nice. Up north near Dawnstar I was walking along the beach when I decided to go for a swim, since that's the kind of thing you'd decide when it's such a lovely warm day. Then I saw a bird flying around under the water and the game crashed."
posted by vanar sena at 3:56 AM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by vanar sena at 3:56 AM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd never install one on my own game, but they're wonderful examples of how the community can take the tools the developer hands out, and use them to break the rules with creativity and style.
As far as I'm concerned, the release of the mod tools for Skyrim, all by itself, means that Bethesda deserves every dollar they made from the game. That's the power of computers in general, and very few companies are willing to do things like that anymore.
Activision or EA would never, ever do that, I suspect, because they'd see it as lost revenue.
posted by Malor at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
As far as I'm concerned, the release of the mod tools for Skyrim, all by itself, means that Bethesda deserves every dollar they made from the game. That's the power of computers in general, and very few companies are willing to do things like that anymore.
Activision or EA would never, ever do that, I suspect, because they'd see it as lost revenue.
posted by Malor at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
It seems like such a change that if someone took this mod as a baseline and built some proper quests in, you'd have a whole new game. They could call it Elsweyr.
There is a Moonpath to Elsweyr mod that does pretty much what you say. It's an entirely new area with its own quests, NPCs, etc. But it's pretty amateurish and the original voice acting is terrible.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:13 AM on March 15, 2013
There is a Moonpath to Elsweyr mod that does pretty much what you say. It's an entirely new area with its own quests, NPCs, etc. But it's pretty amateurish and the original voice acting is terrible.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:13 AM on March 15, 2013
The character progression system is pretty good, the combat is decent, and the world is gorgeous. But there's very little depth and almost no consequence to the missions you do.
I actually think the combat is pretty terrible; really clumsy. I wish Bethesda would finally really knuckle down and work on it, so I don't have to play a conjurer every time (I kid, I love conjurers). But otherwise I agree. That said, it seems like right now these games are completely limited by the amount of money and work that the designers can put into them, and I don't think there's really a way to fix the issues without reducing scope or increasing linearity. Bethesda decided a very long time ago that they were going to sacrifice richness of content to allow for player freedom (see Daggerfall, etc) and were going to have a sense of wide scope, even if it led to a "theme park" effect where the world doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Other developers have chosen differently, but it almost seems like a zero-sum situation.
For example, the Mass Effect games (excluding the Mako missions) are a series of very small, mostly linear corridor shooter missions disguised as RPGs by dolloping a ton of frosting on the top. This is a continuation of the KOTOR games, albeit with a different combat system, and it reflects the Bioware approach to this problem: they're not interested in an open world, so it's easier to channel the player towards compelling content. Bioware games tend not to even have real overworlds (see Dragon Age for another example).
And then you have Obsidian... you could argue that Obsidian just has better writers, but they also push harder against the limits of time and money, and this can produce uneven art and, most notoriously, a lot of bugs.
As another example, the Assassin's Creed games have tons more NPCs and buildings than Skyrim, but they're all just meatbags for the player to kill; you can't even talk to them for the most part. While not an RPG, it reflects the same tension between wanting a compelling experience and wanting an open experience. ACII for example has about 8 NPCS you can interact with in a non-lethal manner.
This just isn't going to be solved without a new way to make content, or a lot more money. Or a time machine.
Skyrim really shines when you make up a story for your little dude, and treat the quests as the rungs on a ladder you climb towards your conception of that story.
I agree, and I like Mount and Blade for the same reason: while not very detailed, it's a great starting point for your imagination.
posted by selfnoise at 7:31 AM on March 15, 2013
I actually think the combat is pretty terrible; really clumsy. I wish Bethesda would finally really knuckle down and work on it, so I don't have to play a conjurer every time (I kid, I love conjurers). But otherwise I agree. That said, it seems like right now these games are completely limited by the amount of money and work that the designers can put into them, and I don't think there's really a way to fix the issues without reducing scope or increasing linearity. Bethesda decided a very long time ago that they were going to sacrifice richness of content to allow for player freedom (see Daggerfall, etc) and were going to have a sense of wide scope, even if it led to a "theme park" effect where the world doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Other developers have chosen differently, but it almost seems like a zero-sum situation.
For example, the Mass Effect games (excluding the Mako missions) are a series of very small, mostly linear corridor shooter missions disguised as RPGs by dolloping a ton of frosting on the top. This is a continuation of the KOTOR games, albeit with a different combat system, and it reflects the Bioware approach to this problem: they're not interested in an open world, so it's easier to channel the player towards compelling content. Bioware games tend not to even have real overworlds (see Dragon Age for another example).
And then you have Obsidian... you could argue that Obsidian just has better writers, but they also push harder against the limits of time and money, and this can produce uneven art and, most notoriously, a lot of bugs.
As another example, the Assassin's Creed games have tons more NPCs and buildings than Skyrim, but they're all just meatbags for the player to kill; you can't even talk to them for the most part. While not an RPG, it reflects the same tension between wanting a compelling experience and wanting an open experience. ACII for example has about 8 NPCS you can interact with in a non-lethal manner.
This just isn't going to be solved without a new way to make content, or a lot more money. Or a time machine.
Skyrim really shines when you make up a story for your little dude, and treat the quests as the rungs on a ladder you climb towards your conception of that story.
I agree, and I like Mount and Blade for the same reason: while not very detailed, it's a great starting point for your imagination.
posted by selfnoise at 7:31 AM on March 15, 2013
the Assassin's Creed games have tons more NPCs and buildings than Skyrim
I wish more RPGs would follow Assassin's Creed when they make their cities. I'd much rather have a city of thousands of people, most of whom aren't real NPC's who can talk with you, than Bethesda's "cities" with a population of 50 people.
posted by straight at 9:13 AM on March 15, 2013
I wish more RPGs would follow Assassin's Creed when they make their cities. I'd much rather have a city of thousands of people, most of whom aren't real NPC's who can talk with you, than Bethesda's "cities" with a population of 50 people.
posted by straight at 9:13 AM on March 15, 2013
More like 10 people in some cities.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 10:00 AM on March 15, 2013
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 10:00 AM on March 15, 2013
Just posting to say that despite its flaws I am still madly in love with Skyrim. I've been playing on and off since day one, on PS3 with no DLC. There are plenty of things I would improve: more world depth, more voice actors, more dungeon variety, more sense of consequence and moral agency. Yet something keeps bringing me back. I've probably spent 500 hours or more in there and it still feels new, it hasn't lost its wonder for me. I've never gotten this much enjoyment out of a video game in my life.
The two biggest things I do that keep it fresh are role-playing (as others have suggested) and never using fast travel. I come up with arbitrary restrictions for how I'll play each character I build: "This warrior only uses battleaxes and heavy army, no magic, no lockpicking" or "This ice mage only uses frost magic, no weapons, and is a vampire" or "This thief only uses bows and daggers and steals everything worth more than 50 septims." Sharply focusing the abilities of each character allows for a greater sense of growth, as you can reach the highest levels of whichever skill trees you concentrate on. It also makes each playthrough feel fundamentally different as each character will manipulate the game world in unique ways.
Removing fast travel turns every fetch quest into a journey that requires intentionality and planning. Sometimes I'll use carriages to get around if I'm in a hurry but I try to avoid those too. The beauty of this game is in the journey, not the destination.
Skyrim is gorgeous. My favorite experiences were getting lost in the wilderness, finding unexpected details I'd never encountered before. Skyrim is usually portrayed as a "bleak winter environment" but there's a lot of variation as you travel from hold to hold. The tundra of Eastmarch is wildly different from the fall forest of the Rift, the seaside cliffs of Winterhold, or the murky swamp of Hjaalmarch. Each place has a personality of its own. When I move throughout the province I feel like I'm really covering ground in a way I didn't in, say, Fallout New Vegas (which I also greatly enjoyed).
I'm not interested in TESO but I really hope Bethesda can keep their momentum for TESVI. If it's as good as Skyrim I may never play another game again.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 11:05 AM on March 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
The two biggest things I do that keep it fresh are role-playing (as others have suggested) and never using fast travel. I come up with arbitrary restrictions for how I'll play each character I build: "This warrior only uses battleaxes and heavy army, no magic, no lockpicking" or "This ice mage only uses frost magic, no weapons, and is a vampire" or "This thief only uses bows and daggers and steals everything worth more than 50 septims." Sharply focusing the abilities of each character allows for a greater sense of growth, as you can reach the highest levels of whichever skill trees you concentrate on. It also makes each playthrough feel fundamentally different as each character will manipulate the game world in unique ways.
Removing fast travel turns every fetch quest into a journey that requires intentionality and planning. Sometimes I'll use carriages to get around if I'm in a hurry but I try to avoid those too. The beauty of this game is in the journey, not the destination.
Skyrim is gorgeous. My favorite experiences were getting lost in the wilderness, finding unexpected details I'd never encountered before. Skyrim is usually portrayed as a "bleak winter environment" but there's a lot of variation as you travel from hold to hold. The tundra of Eastmarch is wildly different from the fall forest of the Rift, the seaside cliffs of Winterhold, or the murky swamp of Hjaalmarch. Each place has a personality of its own. When I move throughout the province I feel like I'm really covering ground in a way I didn't in, say, Fallout New Vegas (which I also greatly enjoyed).
I'm not interested in TESO but I really hope Bethesda can keep their momentum for TESVI. If it's as good as Skyrim I may never play another game again.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 11:05 AM on March 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
I come up with arbitrary restrictions for how I'll play each character
I keep trying this, but I have to fight myself all the way -- unless I'm super-super-careful, I always end up playing magic sniper.
...because, c'mon, using Bound Bow to shoot that arrogant noble right off his horse from 100 yards out, then dumping his body off the bridge, is just too damn much fun. I just can't help myself. Start off being a dual-wielding axmonger Orcdude, and end up being a cloaked magic sniper Orcdude. Resto/Illusion mage lady inevitably becomes magic sniper lady.
Even conjuring dude with a personal army of Daedric murderboys ends up as magic sniper with a personal audience of appreciative Daedric archery enthusiasts.
Every single time.
I just wish bodies persisted for longer, so that I could admire the wasteland I've made. It's so depressing to pile bandit corpses on a bonfire, only to turn my back and have them all vanish. Hmph. I created that pile for The Ages, dammit.
posted by aramaic at 11:31 AM on March 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
I keep trying this, but I have to fight myself all the way -- unless I'm super-super-careful, I always end up playing magic sniper.
...because, c'mon, using Bound Bow to shoot that arrogant noble right off his horse from 100 yards out, then dumping his body off the bridge, is just too damn much fun. I just can't help myself. Start off being a dual-wielding axmonger Orcdude, and end up being a cloaked magic sniper Orcdude. Resto/Illusion mage lady inevitably becomes magic sniper lady.
Even conjuring dude with a personal army of Daedric murderboys ends up as magic sniper with a personal audience of appreciative Daedric archery enthusiasts.
Every single time.
I just wish bodies persisted for longer, so that I could admire the wasteland I've made. It's so depressing to pile bandit corpses on a bonfire, only to turn my back and have them all vanish. Hmph. I created that pile for The Ages, dammit.
posted by aramaic at 11:31 AM on March 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
Magic... sniper? I thought I'd tried everything. Looks like I just found my next playthrough.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 12:13 PM on March 15, 2013
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 12:13 PM on March 15, 2013
The Bound Bow is ludicrously overpowered. But if you haven't played through as a high-level conjurer it's pretty fun in general.
My problem with all of these games, ever, is that I really enjoy character creation more than any other part of the game. Someone should make a game where you just continuously create characters through a ludicrously complex generation process and then they tumble out into the world, out of your control.
posted by selfnoise at 12:18 PM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
My problem with all of these games, ever, is that I really enjoy character creation more than any other part of the game. Someone should make a game where you just continuously create characters through a ludicrously complex generation process and then they tumble out into the world, out of your control.
posted by selfnoise at 12:18 PM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure how Bound Bow scales, but all the bound weapons I tried were pretty weak, at least at low power levels. Smithing let you make and improve your own weapons, and lemme tell ya, a dragonbone bow with dragonbone arrows is a fearsome thing in the hands of a sneaky sniper. I think, with the archery bonuses, the base damage on the bow was about 70, and then the arrows added another 25, so each snipe shot would do about 300 damage.
It still takes several arrows for the toughest creatures, but staying hidden and undamaged is usually not very hard.
posted by Malor at 12:19 PM on March 15, 2013
It still takes several arrows for the toughest creatures, but staying hidden and undamaged is usually not very hard.
posted by Malor at 12:19 PM on March 15, 2013
How are people playing through Skyrim more than two or three times? On my first character I did the mage and fighter guilds plus the main quest. On my second one I did the thieves' guild. I started a third character a few months later just to dick around with and try out some balancing mods, and I couldn't stand any of the quest lines any more because they were all so boring.
posted by codacorolla at 12:38 PM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 12:38 PM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
How are people playing through Skyrim more than two or three times?
Personally, I tend to play in short bursts and pay no attention to any of the central quests -- so I fire it up, think "Eh, think I'm gonna walk from Whiterun to Markarth today" and then just amble on over across the countryside, stumbling into caves I didn't know were there, wiping out a nest of filthy filthy bandit scum, assassinating any Thalmor that crosses my path, etc.
A few days later, I think "Eh, maybe I'll walk from Markarth to Dawnstar" and away I go. Played this way, for me, the game can probably last forever.
I wonder what's down that path? Probably somebody I can shoot.
Maybe I'll shoot 'im.
Yep, shot 'im.
Shot 'im right good.
Damn, look at 'im slide down that cliff. Wonder if he had anything I'd like. Wonder how the hell I get down that cliff. Maybe there's somebody down there I can shoot.
posted by aramaic at 1:04 PM on March 15, 2013 [8 favorites]
Personally, I tend to play in short bursts and pay no attention to any of the central quests -- so I fire it up, think "Eh, think I'm gonna walk from Whiterun to Markarth today" and then just amble on over across the countryside, stumbling into caves I didn't know were there, wiping out a nest of filthy filthy bandit scum, assassinating any Thalmor that crosses my path, etc.
A few days later, I think "Eh, maybe I'll walk from Markarth to Dawnstar" and away I go. Played this way, for me, the game can probably last forever.
I wonder what's down that path? Probably somebody I can shoot.
Maybe I'll shoot 'im.
Yep, shot 'im.
Shot 'im right good.
Damn, look at 'im slide down that cliff. Wonder if he had anything I'd like. Wonder how the hell I get down that cliff. Maybe there's somebody down there I can shoot.
posted by aramaic at 1:04 PM on March 15, 2013 [8 favorites]
How are people playing through Skyrim more than two or three times?
I just did my second playthrough recently, and I don't think I'll ever pick it back up again. I know it seems kind of stupid to call it a bad game, when I've put over 100 hours into it, but it really is a bad game. Most games that I put 100 hours into, I like. This one, I don't like. I got my money's worth, and man is it beautiful, but I do not like it.
It's a great way to sightsee, though.
posted by Malor at 9:08 PM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just did my second playthrough recently, and I don't think I'll ever pick it back up again. I know it seems kind of stupid to call it a bad game, when I've put over 100 hours into it, but it really is a bad game. Most games that I put 100 hours into, I like. This one, I don't like. I got my money's worth, and man is it beautiful, but I do not like it.
It's a great way to sightsee, though.
posted by Malor at 9:08 PM on March 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Malor: "I know it seems kind of stupid to call it a bad game, when I've put over 100 hours into it, but it really is a bad game."
*ahem*
Anyhow, Oblivion finally became worth playing after a number of years of modder effort, and the same thing is happening with Skyrim now. Much more quickly than Oblivion, in fact.
I do wish the thing had fewer draugr crypts though; those get boring and repetitive really fast.
posted by vanar sena at 1:52 PM on March 16, 2013
*ahem*
Anyhow, Oblivion finally became worth playing after a number of years of modder effort, and the same thing is happening with Skyrim now. Much more quickly than Oblivion, in fact.
I do wish the thing had fewer draugr crypts though; those get boring and repetitive really fast.
posted by vanar sena at 1:52 PM on March 16, 2013
I think it's absurd to call it a bad game. You don't play bad games for hundreds of hours. But it's also not right to judge it on what it's not trying to do.
It's a terrible Dark Souls, a very bad Planescape Torment, and an average Baldur's Gate. But it's a good Skyrim. And with mods? It's a superb Skyrim. And the newest DLC, Dragonborn, is full of that splendid Morrowind weirdness, I'm going to pick it up on my next pass through the game.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:15 PM on March 16, 2013
It's a terrible Dark Souls, a very bad Planescape Torment, and an average Baldur's Gate. But it's a good Skyrim. And with mods? It's a superb Skyrim. And the newest DLC, Dragonborn, is full of that splendid Morrowind weirdness, I'm going to pick it up on my next pass through the game.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:15 PM on March 16, 2013
I do wish the thing had fewer draugr crypts though; those get boring and repetitive really fast.
That reminds me, I need to find if there's a mod that makes leveled lists of the perma-corpse draugr to match the leveled lists of the draugr that rise to attack you. Once you start leveling up, it becomes so easy to blast them with a spell when they're still in their crypt, because they stand out so much.
posted by radwolf76 at 11:34 AM on March 19, 2013
That reminds me, I need to find if there's a mod that makes leveled lists of the perma-corpse draugr to match the leveled lists of the draugr that rise to attack you. Once you start leveling up, it becomes so easy to blast them with a spell when they're still in their crypt, because they stand out so much.
posted by radwolf76 at 11:34 AM on March 19, 2013
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Prior to Oblivion, and specifically in the Pocket Guide to The Empire, Cyrodiil was described as a vast jungle. Arena's maps of the region with a boreal green, fading into brown in the west and a richer pine green in the southeast, towards Black Marsh. Oblivion, however, found Cyrodiil to be completely lacking in any form of tropical climate. Former game developer Michael Kirkbride wrote a minor text rationalizing the change within the game, wherein Emperor Tiber Septim uses CHIM to bring a temperate climate to the region. The Imperial Library refers to the text as a "retcon".
They ended up rationalizing this with some magical explanation, but I think that's one of many things that made Oblivion such a bland mess.
posted by codacorolla at 11:29 AM on March 14, 2013 [3 favorites]