Boston in lockdown as hunt for marathon bombers unfolds

April 19, 2013 7:22 AM

What started as a report of a convenience store robbery near the campus of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology last night has sprawled into a chaotic manhunt for the perpetrators of the recent terrorist attack on the Boston Marathon. The deadly pursuit, involving a policeman's murder, a carjacking, a violent chase with thrown explosives, and the death of one suspect, has resulted in Governor Deval Patrick ordering an unprecedented lockdown of the entire Boston metropolitan area as an army of law enforcement searches house by house for the remaining gunman. The Associated Press has identified the duo as Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, and his 19-year-old brother Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, who remains at large. Both are immigrants from wartorn Chechnya in southwestern Russia. The Guardian liveblog is good for quick updates, and Reddit's updating crowdsourced timeline of events that has often outpaced mainstream media coverage of the situation. You can also get real-time reports straight from the (Java-based) local police scanner.
posted by Rhaomi (4860 comments total)

MeFi Chat is also a good source for live discussion and speculation (instructions).
posted by Rhaomi at 7:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Since there's a police scanner link here, I'm going to just echo what Anonymous, among others, is saying on twitter: Do not publicize the addresses police are at. It enormously endangers them. And when Anonymous is telling you to be careful and prudent, that should carry some weight.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [66 favorites]

Thanks, Rhaomi.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:24 AM on April 19, 2013

A sort of reasonable way to follow twitter without too much overload: @dannysullivan's watertown list
posted by Skorgu at 7:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

This Is What It Looks Like When the Police Shut Down a City (Atlantic Wire)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Is there supposed to be a link to the Guardian Liveblog?
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Mod note: For the record, Rhamoi checked in with us about whether to hit go on this and we said yes. No need to flag.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Both are recent immigrants from wartorn Chechnya in southwestern Russia

IIRC data points to them having been here since 2002 at the latest.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Pronunciation tips for the suspects' names, please?
posted by nicebookrack at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013

Here's a concise overnight update from WBUR:

– After 10 p.m. last night, a robbery took place at a 7-Eleven in Cambridge
– After that, an MIT police officer was fatally shot, allegedly by the two marathon suspects
– There was a carjacking in Cambridge involving the two suspects taking a Mercedes SUV
– The car was discovered by police in Watertown, which led to an exchange of gunfire
– During the chase, explosive devices were reportedly thrown from the suspects’ car
– During the exchange, one suspect was killed
– Also during the exchange of gunfire, an MBTA officer was shot and is in critical condition
– The second suspect fled and is at-large
– There’s an active search for the suspect who fled, the FBI’s bombing “white hat suspect”
posted by Rock Steady at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

From one of the links:

"Born July 22, 1993, according to Williams, Tsarnaev attended Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, has a Massachusetts driver's license, and has been in the country for around a decade."

How does that make him a 'recent immigrant'?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

Doesn't it seem like if you were the most wanted men in the country, you'd probably not want to knock over a convenience store? I mean, I know stranger things have happened, but if I had two suspects, and they proceeded to rob a 7-Eleven, it would be back to the drawing board.
posted by incomple at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

Boston Police Dept. ‏@Boston_Police 4m
#WANTED: Police seeking MA Plate: 316-ES9, ’99 Honda CRV, Color - Gray. Possible suspect car. Do not approach. pic.twitter.com/11eRTJdtaZ
posted by desjardins at 7:27 AM on April 19, 2013

Reddit, Boston and the missing student
posted by Artw at 7:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

@IntelTweet: The official media arm of the Chechen mujahideen has rejected allegations that two Chechen men were responsible for the Boston bombings.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:28 AM on April 19, 2013

BBC: "The suspects appear to have had some - some - interest in Islamic religious studies."

27 US Media Outlets: "Islamic extremists."
posted by DarlingBri at 7:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [44 favorites]

Is the car in play or not? Seem to recall it was secured by Mass police, reported in old thread.
posted by vrakatar at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013

Guardian liveblog is another good source. (other than metafilter, that is).
posted by shothotbot at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013

CBS Boston saying car has been found?
posted by andruwjones26 at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013

I'm still very confused about the third suspect and the car and train in CT and how UMass-Dartmouth comes in.
posted by maryr at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013

Both are recent immigrants from wartorn Chechnya in southwestern Russia

NPR ran an interview with a friend of one of them who'd known him for 5 years, so the "recent immigrants" thing doesn't sound right.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

The official media arm of the Chechen mujahideen has rejected allegations that two Chechen men were responsible for the Boston bombings.

Ok then.
posted by OmieWise at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

you'd probably not want to knock over a convenience store?

Unless you wanted to commit suicide by cop or you're really short on cash.
posted by drezdn at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

How does that make him a 'recent immigrant'?

For quite some time this morning, news outlets were reporting that both brothers had been in the U.S. for about a year, even while reporting that the younger one had gone to high school in the U.S., etc. I think that's just part of the developing nature of the story.
posted by devinemissk at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013

Doesn't it seem like if you were the most wanted men in the country, you'd probably not want to knock over a convenience store?

If you're the most wanted men in the country and you need money, knocking over a convenience store is a pretty low-risk and low-penalty option. I'm amazed they didn't get out of Boston by Monday evening, but post-event planning is rarely criminals' strong suit.
posted by Etrigan at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

The Chechen propaganda team might be having its own New York Post moment:

MSNBC reports that the official media arm of the Chechen mujahideen says this is a media plot and that two Chechen suspects are innocent.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013

Thank you for putting this all together, Rhaomi.
posted by Theta States at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"Vladimir Putin strongly condemned this barbaric crime and expressed his belief that the fight against terrorism requires the coordinated efforts of the world community," the Kremlin said in a statement.

"The Russian president stressed that Russia is ready, if necessary, to assist with the investigation by U.S. authorities," it said.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Maybe they knocked over the store to try to get cash for their escape. Their photos had just been released: They would want untraceable money for their getaway.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Ah, I guess Somerville is not, in fact, making people move their cars. From the city's twitter feed: The shelter-in-place request for #Somerville includes street sweeping. Do not go out at this time solely to move your car
posted by rmd1023 at 7:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Both are recent immigrants from wartorn Chechnya in southwestern Russia.

No they have been here for 10 years and are from Kyrgyzstan via Dagestan.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

The official media arm of the Chechen mujahideen has rejected allegations that two Chechen men were responsible for the Boston bombings.

Ok then.

While it does seem like a "No True Scotsman" thing, it's also a way of saying this isn't an attack planned by their group.
posted by drezdn at 7:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

The lesson from all of this is that 7-11 will not put up with your shit.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [52 favorites]

The police just found the car registered to the suspect. Is there still validity to the claim that he's heading to NYC in a suicide vest?
posted by DoubleLune at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2013

Djohar's vk account says/said he speaks English, Russian and Chechen.
posted by gubo at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2013

Couldn't they just as easily be motivated by secular/nationalist causes as by Islam? Even if that's their religion, it may not be their motivation.

I really hope at least one conspirator is captured alive and will be able to give us some insight into their thinking.
posted by emjaybee at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

What's this about a woman in an SUV?
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2013

I was thinking "recent immigrants" as in "not born and raised in the US" (versus the perennial "Timothy McVeigh Mk. 2" theories) combined with their youth, but yes, it probably could have been phrased better.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:33 AM on April 19, 2013

odinsdream: "hot pursuit" laws generally allow that, yes
posted by contrarian at 7:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Press secretary of Kadyrov sez they have not had anything to do with Chechnya for a long time.
posted by vkxmai at 7:33 AM on April 19, 2013

I really hope at least one conspirator is captured alive and will be able to give us some insight into their thinking.

I'm so worried about that. One guy's already dead...
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If we can't trust the official media arm of the Chechen mujahideen, who can we trust?
posted by Area Man at 7:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [27 favorites]

While it does seem like a "No True Scotsman" thing, it's also a way of saying this isn't an attack planned by their group.

I can't imagine a reason their group would do something like that - it's not as though America is denying Chechnian independence.

These two are more Columbine than OKC.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

What's with all the 7-11 jokes? All I've heard is that they tried to rob one - did the 7-11 clerk go Rambo on them or something?
posted by exhilaration at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013

Odinsdream- that's something I've been wondering. What if they stumble over something else illegal, someone's grow room or something...is it still admissible as evidence? Or, at this point, do they just not care?
posted by Bibliogeek at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Couldn't they just as easily be motivated by secular/nationalist causes as by Islam? Even if that's their religion, it may not be their motivation.

No any one of Earth's 1.6 billion Muslims are only ever motivated by one thing.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [32 favorites]

Amazon's Local Deal for me today: "Boston Night Tour".

Sounds like a great time, guys...
posted by Dr.Enormous at 7:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

What's with all the 7-11 jokes? All I've heard is that they tried to rob one - did the 7-11 clerk go Rambo on them or something?

While many people might argue the Banality of Evil is a debunked concept, the banality of 7-11 is an absolute thing.
posted by pineappleheart at 7:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

What's with all the 7-11 jokes? All I've heard is that they tried to rob one - did the 7-11 clerk go Rambo on them or something?

7-11 Surveillance.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:35 AM on April 19, 2013

If people are going to make statements presented as facts in this thread, it would be really useful to also post a link to a source. (Encouraging some critical media consumption can only be a good thing at this point.)
posted by DarlingBri at 7:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Fascinating how the placement of video cameras managed to capture images of these guys. I can see placement of such cameras being encoded into building laws so that all streets are covered. Possibly interior of buildings also.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Good lord that "recent immigrants" on the front page linking to an article that says at least one "has been in the country for around a decade" is horrid misinformation. Rhaomi, please ask the mods to fix that.
posted by mediareport at 7:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

Thank you very much for posting this, Rhaomi. The other thread was too large and unwieldy.
posted by zarq at 7:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

What if they stumble over something else illegal, someone's grow room or something...is it still admissible as evidence? Or, at this point, do they just not care?

I really suspect they care much more about getting everyone the hell out of there alive than someone's weed.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

rmd: That's as of 9 or so. The original tweet was from city's 311 account.

exhilaration: The 7-11 robbery set this chain of events into motion.
posted by maryr at 7:36 AM on April 19, 2013

exhilaration: "What's with all the 7-11 jokes? "

It looks like 9/11. Nevar Forget {weeping_eagle.GIF}
posted by exogenous at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I'm in NYC. This week trying to enjoy my vacation but also closely following the news. They're giving away I heart Boston shirts in Times Square and nobody seems to mind me wearing a Sox cap.

Stay safe, all of you at home.
posted by bondcliff at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

emjaybee: I really hope at least one conspirator is captured alive and will be able to give us some insight into their thinking.

After Boston, they were going to target REO Speedwagon & Journey. The '70s buttrock wars have begun.
posted by dr_dank at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

Comparing the photos the FBI released yesterday to the photos on their social sites, I'm wondering if the Boston Marathon was their fallback event.

I mean, why were they wearing Burlington Coat Factory golf clothes?

The thought scares me, a bit.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013

I'm still catching up on this morning's news. Do we know how officials came to know the names/identities of the suspects?
posted by lullaby at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013

Can everyone stop posting things here and on twitter that they hear on police scanners? That's not what they are for. There's a reason real journalists don't ever report what they hear through there. Thank you.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

The political fallout from this is going to be immense. This is Obama's 9/11.

Immigration reform is now dead. I wish it wasn't true (I have undocumented friends who are going to be screwed), but the fact that two non-native persons have waged a successful guerrilla campaign on US soil means Immigration reform is dead for at least a decade. It's just dead. I'm sorry.

Republicans (and others) are going to demand retribution against Chechen nationalists. Unless there is some kind of American military action against Chechen groups, Democrats will once again be portrayed as weak-willed terrorist sympathizers who love Muslims more than "real Americans".

Remember all the xenophobia, hatred and jingoism that happened after 9/11? Yeah, it's coming back. Maybe not as badly or as acutely, but it's coming back. Like clockwork.
posted by Avenger at 7:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

I'm still catching up on this morning's news. Do we know how officials came to know the names/identities of the suspects?

I believe it was because they ID'd the one who died in the shootout.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

OK, shakespeherian, I wasn't trying to be trivial, but wondering if their primary motiviation was religious in nature or simply about politics; I realize the two intertwine. But there is a difference between hating someone for being non-{your religion} and hating them for enabling the oppression of your country (for example).

And it may be none of those but be entirely personal. I just know that the media is already (cough NPR cough) leaping on the Chechan Muslims/Jihad/OMG angle and wanted to explore what other alternatives there could be.
posted by emjaybee at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I really, really don't think this plot originated from Chechnya. The older brother maybe had some experience there, but this seems like something closer to the dc sniper killings-- a folie a deux with two family members that are close to each other but isolated from the community somehow.
posted by empath at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [50 favorites]

Couldn't they just as easily be motivated by secular/nationalist causes as by Islam? Even if that's their religion, it may not be their motivation.

That doesn't really make any sense. How would bombing the boston marathon further Chechen independence? I heard the bombs were placed by the Russian (and some other) flag along the road, but I don't know if that's true or not.

Also, the older brother was a practicing muslim, and got his girlfriend to convert at one point. We don't know about the younger "well liked/popular" brother.
posted by delmoi at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

odinsdream: "hot pursuit" laws generally allow that, yes

Hot pursuit allows a search of every home in a major metropolis? That seems sketchy.

Is it maybe more likely that they are just asking if they can search and most people are letting them because holy fuck bomber?
posted by corb at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

From Atlantic Wire article linked above:
At this moment, heavily armed members of the military, assisted by local law enforcement, are going door-to-door in Watertown, searching every house, garage, and shed for bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

Let me take this wildly inappropriate opportunity to be curious about procedural/civil liberty stuff!

1) How's this going searching to fly with prosecution without, like, warrants?
2) If in this process the cops stumble upon someone's huge residential pot-growing-and-DVD-pirating operation, is anyone going to care? or take notes to come back later?

Please delete if this question is a derail.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

There's enough here to keep Alex Jones hopping for months.
posted by davebush at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Immigration reform is now dead. I wish it wasn't true (I have undocumented friends who are going to be screwed), but the fact that two non-native persons have waged a successful guerrilla campaign on US soil means Immigration reform is dead for at least a decade. It's just dead. I'm sorry.

Not to call you out but this sounds to me like all those 'SHIT MCCAIN JUST WON THE ELECTION' things after he pulled Palin out of a hat and no one knew what was what.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [75 favorites]

I mean, these guys have been in America since they were kids and they get described as "Recent Immigrants" on Metafilter.

That is how far down the xenophobia rabbit hole we have gone.
posted by Avenger at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [82 favorites]

Tomorrowful: "Since there's a police scanner link here, I'm going to just echo what Anonymous, among others, is saying on twitter: Do not publicize the addresses police are at. It enormously endangers them."

This is stupid.

What is stopping the suspect from listening in on the same online police scanner as we are? If the police have a need for confidential communications, they should have a secure comms link.
posted by brokkr at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

This thread is nice and all, but honestly, I kinda miss the old thread.
posted by newdaddy at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

From the Buzzfeed link:

"Tamerlan says he doesn't drink or smoke anymore: 'God said no alcohol.' A Muslim, he says: 'There are no values anymore,' and worries that 'people can't control themselves.'"

"Originally from Chechnya, but living in the United States since five years, Tamerlan says: 'I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them.'"
posted by mediareport at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2013

I believe it was because they ID'd the one who died in the shootout.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.
posted by lullaby at 7:41 AM on April 19, 2013

Unless there is some kind of American military action against Chechen groups.

You are aware that Chechnya is in Russia, yes?
posted by empath at 7:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [27 favorites]

WBUR is reporting that UMass Dartmouth is being evacuated.
posted by chowflap at 7:41 AM on April 19, 2013

The political fallout from this is going to be immense. This is Obama's 9/11.

I do not agree, since a handful people died instead of thousands (I mean it's awful but still--long term emotional damage is caused by the ripple effects of a high number of casualties). In the end this is more likely to be Boston's Christopher Dorner.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [30 favorites]

Avenger: “The political fallout from this is going to be immense. This is Obama's 9/11.”

Over four people dead. Four people. I value every human life, and I know that the deaths of those four people was a huge loss to the world, but – if we're supposed to lock down entire cities and put up with a military police state that searches houses on a whim every single time four people die, well... we may as well just throw in the towel on democracy.

Sorry if that seems a bit extreme; I'm trying to stay balanced, but it's difficult at this point.
posted by koeselitz at 7:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [131 favorites]

I would expect they got at least one name out of the photos released last night. The shootout just confirmed it. This is an assumption only, basing it on the fact that a few people have said they recognized and didn't report.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:41 AM on April 19, 2013

I won't be particularly surprised if the Tsarnaevs were motivated in part by the ongoing Chechnyan nightmare, but I would be shocked if it was actually coordinated with anyone over there, or indeed anyone else at all. This has all the hallmarks of two nutjobs acting on their own.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the US will not be attacking Chechnya as the Russians probably would not like that very much.
posted by drezdn at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [21 favorites]

I really, really don't think this plot originated from Chechnya. The older brother maybe had some experience there, but this seems like something closer to the dc sniper killings-- a folie a deux with two family members that are close to each other but isolated from the community somehow.

It doesn't sound like the younger brother was isolated from the community though. It sounded as though he was popular and well-liked in highschool. Maybe things changed in college for him somehow. He was going to UMASS Dartmouth, which is an Ivy League school.
posted by delmoi at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Remember all the xenophobia, hatred and jingoism that happened after 9/11? Yeah, it's coming back. Maybe not as badly or as acutely, but it's coming back. Like clockwork.


Agreed. I've been on Reddit a lot and asking how can those blurry photos be of a "brown person". Some guy jumped all over me saying "look at that schnoz; that's Syrian". Because you know, no one except Syrian's have an enhanced nose profile.

So stupid. People forget just how crazy and angry some people are of all genders, colors, religion, and motive. Seeing there was no politcal tie in admitting they did it (or someone associated to them), they have their own motive.
posted by stormpooper at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Avenger, that's left over from misinformation immediately following release of suspect names.
posted by maryr at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013

This is moving a bit fast, but you can't just... randomly search everybody's homes in a given area, right?

There's three ways to approach this. One is the "active pursuit" principle -- if police are chasing you, just because you run into your house doesn't mean they can't follow right there and then. Second is a warrant, which can be granted via a phone call with a judge, and they likely have one standing by on the phone ready to rubber stamp any request.

The third way is to just knock on doors and ask to come in. That will take care of 99 percent of the cases.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

1) How's this going searching to fly with prosecution without, like, warrants?

He won't be prosecuted for hiding from the police.

2) If in this process the cops stumble upon someone's huge residential pot-growing-and-DVD-pirating operation, is anyone going to care? or take notes to come back later?

They may well remember the house, but they'll need a real warrant to conduct a search for crimes unrelated to pursuit of a suspect.
posted by Etrigan at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

This is moving a bit fast, but you can't just... randomly search everybody's homes in a given area, right?

Undoubtedly tucked away in the Homeland Security Act somewhere.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

You are aware that Chechnya is in Russia, yes?

Well, opinions differ somewhat vociferously on that point...
posted by Dr.Enormous at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [27 favorites]

I mean, these guys have been in America since they were kids and they get described as "Recent Immigrants" on Metafilter.

That is how far down the xenophobia rabbit hole we have gone.

Again, people, as recently as 9:00 this morning news outlets, including NPR were reporting that they had been told the two brothers had been in the U.S. for only a year.

That has since been clarified, but that was all over the news two hours ago.
posted by devinemissk at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Boston Police Dept. ‏@Boston_Police 59s
UPDATE: Vehicle (MA Plate: 316-ES9) found unoccupied. Car being processed for evidence by authorities. pic.twitter.com/c4cDHrgd4E
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

The political fallout from this is going to be immense. This is Obama's 9/11.

So everyone rallies around him and he gets a huge upsurge in popularity? Okay by me.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [33 favorites]

Immigration reform is now dead. I wish it wasn't true (I have undocumented friends who are going to be screwed), but the fact that two non-native persons have waged a successful guerrilla campaign on US soil means Immigration reform is dead for at least a decade. It's just dead. I'm sorry.

MAYBE, but this frankly sounds sort of hysterical to me. As someone noted in the other thread, Carlos Arredondo is also an immigrant.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [25 favorites]

Is it maybe more likely that they are just asking if they can search and most people are letting them because holy fuck bomber?

According to a friend of mine in Watertown who "woke up to a camouflaged SWAT team ringing [his] doorbell and politely asking to search the premises," yes, that's exactly right.
posted by ook at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

UMASS Dartmouth is not an Ivy League school.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [32 favorites]

Over four people dead. Four people. I value every human life, and I know that the deaths of those four people was a huge loss to the world, but

Yeah, the fertilizer explosion seems to have killed at least 10 times as many people.
posted by delmoi at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

He was going to UMASS Dartmouth, which is an Ivy League school.

No, it is not. Dartmouth College is in Hanover, New Hampshire.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

NPR at one point stated that police had IDed the younger one by DL photo before the robbery. Don't know if that's accurate.

NPR is also saying that they have (had?) a building in Watertown surrounded and that they think maybe Dzhokar is inside?

Finally, Odinsdream, the police can always ask your permission to search your home. Hot pursuit absolutely doesn't apply here. They're not kicking in doors.
posted by kavasa at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013

How's this going searching to fly with prosecution without, like, warrants?

I don't think they're going to arrest him.
posted by empath at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I actually like the twitter/scanner posts (that don't name locations that could put police in danger), because I am at work in Australia, and a whoooolleee lot of sites from which I could follow this story are blocked on the work pc.

But meti is not :]
posted by Burgatron at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

He was going to UMASS Dartmouth, which is an Ivy League school.

Pretty sure the Ivy Dartmouth is in New Hampshire-- I think this is a state school.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013

Obama's 9/11? Sounds like they arrived on Bush's watch.
posted by davebush at 7:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

I value every human life, and I know that the deaths of those four people was a huge loss to the world, but – if we're supposed to lock down entire cities and put up with a military police state that searches houses on a whim every single time four people die, well... we may as well just throw in the towel on democracy.

Considering that the alternative is "embroil the country in a 10-year war that results in pointless American casualties and costs trillions of dollars", I'm not sure I mind this turn of events quite so much. Especially since the motivation for the lockdown is also partly due to "guys there's a nutball running around your town y'all are probably better off staying inside and watching Maury because it'll be way safer."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

I mean, these guys have been in America since they were kids and they get described as "Recent Immigrants" on Metafilter.

That is how far down the xenophobia rabbit hole we have gone.

You may be confusing lack of knowledge with a "rabbit hole." This is a story that is developing very quickly. Maybe resist the urge to draw conclusions for a while.
posted by OmieWise at 7:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Cool Papa Bell: “The third way is to just knock on doors and ask to come in. That will take care of 99 percent of the cases.”

"We had probable cause, your honor. See, when we asked to come in, he shouted for us to leave him alone, and he sounded very agitated."
posted by koeselitz at 7:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

He was going to UMASS Dartmouth, which is an Ivy League school.

UMass Dartmouth != Dartmouth College
posted by maryr at 7:44 AM on April 19, 2013

UMASS Dartmouth, which is an Ivy League school

No, that Dartmouth is different.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:44 AM on April 19, 2013

“The political fallout from this is going to be immense. This is Obama's 9/11.”

Nonsense, I'm sure the GOP will be understanding and realize the problem is the bombers themselves, not Democrat President.

How's this going searching to fly with prosecution without, like, warrants?

I don't think cops need a warrant when in active pursuit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:45 AM on April 19, 2013

Yeah, I don't think this will impact immigration reform.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:45 AM on April 19, 2013

The internet's shameful false ID
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

No. Dartmouth College up in New Hampshire is the Ivy League School. UMASS Dartmouth is located on the south coast of MASS--part of the UMASS system.

My mistake. I was just reporting what what my sources were telling me.
posted by delmoi at 7:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Immigration reform is now dead

Maybe. If immigration reform was going to work it would be because enough republicans thought it was in their best interests to let it pass. I doubt someone whose vote would be swayed by immigration reform would go to the democrats, though it could open republicans up to a right wing challenge.
posted by shothotbot at 7:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"Here and Now" NPR reporter Robin Young on NPR saying she personally knows one of the suspects?
posted by 445supermag at 7:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I don't think cops need a warrant when in active pursuit.

This is not active pursuit. It's a manhunt.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:46 AM on April 19, 2013

WCVB TV are saying the suspect they have on the ground is Dzhokar Tsarnaev. Edit: but the scanners are apparently saying it's a 60-70 year old man.
posted by tracicle at 7:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

> I mean, these guys have been in America since they were kids and they get described as "Recent Immigrants" on Metafilter. That is how far down the xenophobia rabbit hole we have gone.

You may be confusing lack of knowledge with a "rabbit hole."

Seconding this - for a while NPR was reporting that the brothers had only been in this country for one year rather than ten. some people may still be operating on that report.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Well, opinions differ somewhat vociferously on that point...

Regardless, I'm sure Putin will happily massacre a bunch more civilians there if Obama asked nicely. The us can't do anything worse to Chechnya than the Russians have.
posted by empath at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

I live two towns over from UMASS Dartmouth - a very nice state school my Dad went to. It's not a very large campus.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2013

Is Robin Young the one whose relative went to school with the younger suspect?
posted by drezdn at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2013

Yes.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2013

Has pix of him with his prom date.
posted by maryr at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2013

"Here and Now" NPR reporter Robin Young on NPR saying she personally knows one of the suspects?

Yeah, I heard that this morning -- her nephew went to high school with him and was at a graduation party for her nephew (that she attended), so she believes she has met him.
posted by devinemissk at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2013

"Here and Now" NPR reporter Robin Young on NPR saying she personally knows one of the suspects?

According to The Guardian he was a friend of her nephew.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Thanks for the answers, Etrigan!

Linguists of MeFi, how does one pronounce the suspects' names? Is there a video up with them said correctly?
posted by nicebookrack at 7:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Robin Young posted a picture on Twitter of her nephew and the suspect.
posted by lullaby at 7:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

They may well remember the house, but they'll need a real warrant to conduct a search for crimes unrelated to pursuit of a suspect.

I think the question is, could they obtain said warrant by saying, "I saw it while looking for the bomber."
posted by corb at 7:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Media is being pushed back repeatedly.
posted by SuzySmith at 7:48 AM on April 19, 2013

The cops have somebody now. On the ground. May have a "device" and a "transmitter" on him. They're calling for EOD teams.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"Over four people dead. Four people. I value every human life, and I know that the deaths of those four people was a huge loss to the world, but – if we're supposed to lock down entire cities and put up with a military police state that searches houses on a whim every single time four people die, well... we may as well just throw in the towel on democracy."

YES. you have a guy on the run, possibly wearing explosive vest and seemingly willing to kill as many as he can, and you want search warrants for every house before the police enter? wow.
Democracy will not survive unless there is some give on silly notions on what the authjorities should, can, and ought to do.
posted by Postroad at 7:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Also, I believe it's the third suspect who supposedly attends UMASS.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:50 AM on April 19, 2013

Robin Young posted a picture on Twitter of her nephew and the suspect.

Okay, WHY? I can't see any reason to do this other than wanting people to pay attention to your extremely peripheral role in a really awful situation. Just ugh. I think the internet has played a really interesting and probably ultimately important role in this last week's events, but a lot of it is really gross, too.
posted by something something at 7:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [19 favorites]

Mod note: Nixed "recent" from "recent immigrants" since its early, that's a hold over from what was being said when Rhaomi drafted the post earlier, and it seems like it could end up being a disorienting sticking point for a lot of folks. Carry on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

"Immigration Reform" is the code phrase for the parties fighting for the huge hispanic vote. It's not likely dead or dying.
posted by klarck at 7:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [30 favorites]

Also, I believe it's the third suspect who supposedly attends UMASS.

Maybe this thread is moving too fast, I don't remember hearing about a third suspect, links?
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:51 AM on April 19, 2013

This is not active pursuit. It's a manhunt.

I did not realize there were separate terms for these.
posted by psoas at 7:51 AM on April 19, 2013

I think the question is, could they obtain said warrant by saying, "I saw it while looking for the bomber."

In the Homicide book, the author said that police tend to ignore other crimes when investigating a murder.
posted by drezdn at 7:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Suspect is wearing a "vest". Device in his hand. Speculation it's a "dead man's switch".
posted by BobbyVan at 7:52 AM on April 19, 2013

Damn ... this is exhausting. Had 3 hours of sleep and would like to get breakfast/lunch, but locked down and relegated to TV and MeFi. In good company, though, here.
posted by ericb at 7:52 AM on April 19, 2013

Is this from the scanner? Cite?
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:52 AM on April 19, 2013

Re: "Recent Immigrants":

NYT: The two suspects [are identified as] brothers: Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev [“white cap”], 19 (at large) and Tamerlan Tsarnaev [“black cap”], 26 (died in hospital).

Officials said that the two men were of Chechen origin. . .

The family lived briefly in [Kyrgyzstan, then] Dagestan . . . before moving to the United States in 2002.

A spokesman for Ramzan A. Kadyrov, leader of Chechnya. . . told Interfax that, according to preliminary information, the family “moved to a different region of the Russian Federation from Chechnya many years ago. . . and from there moved to the United States, where [they] received residency permits.

“In such a way, the figures who are being spoken about did not live in Chechnya at a mature age, and if they became ‘bad guys,’ then this is a question that should be put to the people who raised them”.

posted by Herodios at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013

BobbyVan: Source?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think the question is, could they obtain said warrant by saying, "I saw it while looking for the bomber."

If they only found evidence because of an illegal search, I believe it would fall under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine.
posted by burnmp3s at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Over four people dead. Four people. I value every human life, and I know that the deaths of those four people was a huge loss to the world, but – if we're supposed to lock down entire cities and put up with a military police state that searches houses on a whim every single time four people die, well... we may as well just throw in the towel on democracy.


But it isn't just the four people dead, is it? It's the 180 other injured casualties, and it's the ongoing terror of knowing there are people who are willing kill anyone and who are actively trying to kill more people on the run. What would you rather they have done-- told everyone in Boston to continue on their daily business? These guys had bombs. They were trying to set off more bombs. I have friends who are in Cambridge and Somerville right now. They're okay with the lockdown.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [18 favorites]

This is not active pursuit. It's a manhunt.

I did not realize there were separate terms for these.

Darling Bri's point is that active pursuit implies that they have a visual on the suspect and are after him, while a manhunt is searching for someone who's location police don't know. Subtle but important.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

In the Homicide book, the author said that police tend to ignore other crimes when investigating a murder

Homicide cops get paid to solve murders, they don't get paid to do the narcotics guys jobs.
posted by empath at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Media all on ground, now being told to move again.
posted by SuzySmith at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013

Scanner. Now they're moving a truck around to "block any potential blast."
posted by BobbyVan at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013

"Anyone besides Law officers who moves will be shot."
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Thanks for doing this, Rhaomi.
posted by anotherpanacea at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013

It's from the scanner.
posted by inire at 7:53 AM on April 19, 2013

active pursuit - you know where he is, you're following him
manhunt - you don't know where he is, you're looking for him
posted by desjardins at 7:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

drezdn: “In the Homicide book, the author said that police tend to ignore other crimes when investigating a murder.”

It's nice to know that we can rely on the good tendencies of the police, in lieu of legal protections.
posted by koeselitz at 7:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

This is not active pursuit. It's a manhunt.


It is a useful distinction- but is it a legal one? I don't know. I do know that watching this whole thing is like tumbling into one of those very long hypothetical questions you might have when discussing civil liberties and how they are affected.."So, what if, there was, like, some crazy guy running around and the cops were looking for him- busting into houses and stuff and then what if they find something else instead?..."
posted by Bibliogeek at 7:54 AM on April 19, 2013

Kerry Sanders on NBC confirms he sees a man in a "turquoise shirt" lying motionless on the ground.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:54 AM on April 19, 2013

This is moving a bit fast, but you can't just... randomly search everybody's homes in a given area, right?
posted by odinsdream at 9:32 AM on 4/19
[2 favorites +] [!]

They can ask to search. And I expect a refusal would lead to a fair amount of discomfort for the refuser.

And this is one of those high-risk situations where a lot of latitude will be afforded to law enforcement ... regardless of whether one agrees with that.
posted by Unified Theory at 7:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Please don't post scanner updates in this thread.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

Please don't post scanner updates in this thread.

If I missed a mod policy statment, which is quite possible, then ignore me.

Otherwise I'm totally for posting scanner updates of the critical and game ending type in the thread.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Globe twitter says Mayor Menino about to give brief presser.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:55 AM on April 19, 2013

They're at the Arsenal Mall in Watertown. We took my nephew to the Bugaboo Creek for his birthday there a few years back.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:55 AM on April 19, 2013

I've been following this story on the police scanner and twitter, nytimes and boston globe, then once at work via mefi - for over 8 hours.

I've not read one varfied report of a 3rd suspect.

there seemed to be some confusion when the gun fight happened, that a suspect had died, that a suspect was captured, and a suspect got away. My guess is this how the '3rd suspect' came about.

But you know, this is just my guess.
posted by Burgatron at 7:56 AM on April 19, 2013

This Is What It Looks Like When the Police Shut Down a City

OK, frankly, there's a lot of upsetting stuff going on here, but posting a picture of someone looking timidly out her curtained window (halfway down) just seems particularly gross to me.
posted by psoas at 7:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

My request is based on the confusion it causes, and the unreliability of the scanner. It is not news, and it is often inaccurate. People can listen to it if they want.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:57 AM on April 19, 2013

Younger brother at UMass-Dartmouth fits earlier suggestions he had gone to UMass-Amherst - people just remembered the wrong campus.
posted by maryr at 7:57 AM on April 19, 2013

Kerry Sanders on NBC says snipers have taken position on surrounding roofs.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh, and before this digresses into one of those tangents:

People who kill other people indiscriminately aren't Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Atheists, or anything else. They're assholes. That is all.

What they proclaim to identify themselves as has nothing to do with the actions they take. The motivations behind the actions can only be speculated on by those that witness it, and by those who perform said actions. Wherever they were born/raised, they would have found some extreme element to justify their unquenchable zealousness for... Well, that certain something some of us pursue without rational thought.

I'm Catholic. This morning, I put on my blue tie, yelled at my daughter for leaving partially eaten grapes on the couch, and put nutmeg in my coffee. If any of you say, "Yeah, that sounds like the typical crap Catholics do," go drink hot candle wax, dipshit.

If any religion programmed all of its people to kill when they otherwise wouldn't, there wouldn't be any of us left.

Also, atheists saying "this is what religion makes people do," is no different than the whackadoodles who say, "This is what [other religion] does to the world. Smite them!"
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 7:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [116 favorites]

The only suggestion I heard of a third suspect between 7 and 10 this morning was Dina whatshername on NPR.
posted by maryr at 7:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Photogs, always check what's in the background of your shots
posted by drezdn at 7:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Over four people dead. Four people. I value every human life, and I know that the deaths of those four people was a huge loss to the world, but – if we're supposed to lock down entire cities and put up with a military police state that searches houses on a whim every single time four people die, well... we may as well just throw in the towel on democracy.

This is in fact when our principles are challenged. Do we really believe in legal protections? In innocent until proven guilty? Then we do not believe in mandatory lockdowns and mandatory house-to-house searches and grabbing everyone being suspicious with a cellphone or a shovel or a bag.

That is Iraq-level shit.
posted by corb at 7:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

RolandOfEld: “Otherwise I'm totally for posting scanner updates of the critical and game ending type in the thread.”

People are free to post what they want, just like we're free to discourage them from doing so. It pays, however, to note that: (a) everything sounds critical and game ending over a police scanner; and (b) I was listening to this ten hours ago, and it sounded absolutely as game ending as it does now, probably more so. Hell, the whole "second suspect on the ground at gunpoint!" thing – how many times has that been announced on the scanner so far? Five times? Six?

Actually, thinking about that, I'm now worried about how many people the Boston Police Department (National Guard, Marines, etc) have had "on the ground at gunpoint" over the past ten hours.
posted by koeselitz at 7:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Oh shit if they moved here in 2002 that is not good news in terms of U.S. freakout

As pointed out above, maybe we can blame it on Bush like you blame the lame purchasing system on whoever had your job before you and is safely out of the company.
posted by shothotbot at 7:59 AM on April 19, 2013

People can listen to it if they want.

Not everyone. Like I said, if the signal to noise ratio is decent I'm for it, and what BobbyVan posted didn't seem like idle chatter. I enjoy posts like this because, for all their problems, they're often better than the news in numerous ways.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Just saw this. Will not post any more scanner updates.

UPDATE: Boston Police are asking social media users not to post information they hear on police frequencies/scanner channels.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

Otherwise I'm totally for posting scanner updates of the critical and game ending type in the thread.

NPR is repeatedly saying that the police are asking people not give out important info, as it endangers them and possibly giving the suspect information. So FYI.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 AM on April 19, 2013

Otherwise I'm totally for posting scanner updates of the critical and game ending type in the thread

Almost all the worst misinformation I've seen since last night was from people trying to interpret what's going on with the scanner. You do not have enough information to make sense of anything they are saying.
posted by empath at 8:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Oh shit if they moved here in 2002 that is not good news in terms of U.S. freakout

I respectfully suggest that good news in terms of a U.S. freakout doesn't exist.
posted by fullerine at 8:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

In the end this is more likely to be Boston's Christopher Dorner.

Very much not; the moral ambiguity that a lot of people felt about Dorner isn't there.
posted by jaduncan at 8:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh shit if they moved here in 2002 that is not good news in terms of U.S. freakout

What does this mean? The younger kid was like nine in 2002, I don't think they moved here to be a baby terror cell or anything.
posted by sweetkid at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Thanks, BobbyVan. Never thought I'd say this, but thank god CBS brought the sanity there.
posted by koeselitz at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013

On the almost certainly wrong "3rd suspect" thing. In the previous thread, this was reported:

"My mother is watching MSNBC and telling me that they have one suspect cornered and another on an Amtrak train."

And then within a few minutes, everything bounced over to this thread, so that was about the last thing I saw.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013

Thank you Bobby Van.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013

Then we do not believe in mandatory lockdowns and mandatory house-to-house searches and grabbing everyone being suspicious with a cellphone or a shovel or a bag.

That is Iraq-level shit.

I'm not sure one can really say right now what the hell is going on with enough certainty to be legitimately worried that our (collective American) rights are in peril.
posted by OmieWise at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

This is Obama's 9/11.

I do not agree, .... In the end this is more likely to be Boston's Christopher Dorner.

Whatever the crime is, the response is Obama's Patriot Act. More civil liberties out the window.

My family lived for three weeks in the center of the DC sniper madness. My kids were on lockdown for recess at school, but they went to school, and I went to work, and the entire region was terrorized, but it did not become a police state. Snipers on people's sheds and orders for an entire metro area not to congregate or leave your home is not ok. I get that they are reacting to an immediate risk and if I were in Boston I would not choose to open my door but this is a very frightening precedent.

How long does the lockdown last if they don't find him tonight? Tomorrow? Next week? How long until the next lockdown when another criminal is on the loose? How many outstanding warrants are there in the Boston metro area?
posted by headnsouth at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [18 favorites]

This is moving a bit fast, but you can't just... randomly search everybody's homes in a given area, right?

Police can conduct a warantless search when there are "exigent circumstances." Active pursuit is definitely exigent circumstances: you're chasing a suspect, he runs into someone's house, police follow, bust in and search. I am unclear on the rules for a manhunt since you need to be able to take, for example, tracker dogs through people's property. Regardless, there is no current evidence police are doing knock-less searches or searching without occupier permission. I imagine the city is feeling feeling pretty fucking cooperative.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

Immigration reform is now dead. I wish it wasn't true (I have undocumented friends who are going to be screwed), but the fact that two non-native persons have waged a successful guerrilla campaign on US soil means Immigration reform is dead for at least a decade. It's just dead. I'm sorry.

This came up in the other thread. It makes absolutely zero sense.

When the Benghazi attacks happened, there were people (Obama supporters) who thought it was going to cost Obama the election for some reason.

But like with the 2008 election, this doesn't change anything at all about the politics. The republicans believe they must appeal to Hispanics in order to survive as a viable political party in the future. This attack doesn't change any of that.

It might make some people more afraid in general, but not enough to have much of an impact on people's support for immigration reform, especially since these two seem to have been legal immigrants anyway.

People need to stop assuming that the American people are total cowards who will vote republicans and/or support arbitrary conservative policies whenever a terrorist attack occurs.

(also this is not a 'successful' guerrilla campaign - it didn't achieve any political objectives, which is the point)
posted by delmoi at 8:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

On Robin Young posting photos of her relative with the suspect -- I don't know how I feel about her posting pics, myself, but earlier this morning I heard her on the Today Show emphasizing how nice and normal she felt this kid was, how well-liked he was in the school community, etc. I got the strong impression she was trying to stave off people making stupid stereotypical assumptions about what the kid must be like, and also that she was genuinely perplexed as to how he had gotten involved.

Maybe she thinks he was coerced (she did not say that literally on the air, but I wondered given her tone) and so she wants the public to see another side of him. Or maybe she wants to remind people in general that terrorists aren't some supervillain caricature -- they're humans with friends and families. Or maybe she's just being an attention whore. I don't know.
posted by BlueJae at 8:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

Cable news is almost equally full of speculation as random twitter accounts listening to a scanner. Don't believe what they say they heard from "a source" and especially don't believe what people say they heard CNN say.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Snipers on people's sheds and orders for an entire metro area not to congregate or leave your home is not ok. I get that they are reacting to an immediate risk and if I were in Boston I would not choose to open my door but this is a very frightening precedent.

I get the concern about civil liberties, but locking down an area during an active manhunt for a clearly dangerous suspect just makes sense. This like predicting that a travel ban during a blizzard is the end of American freedom.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [47 favorites]

Boston Globe: RECAPPING: Search for bombing suspect focuses on 20-block area in Watertown; officials fear he may be wearing explosive vest
posted by BobbyVan at 8:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

nicebookrack: 1) How's this going searching to fly with prosecution without, like, warrants?

I have no idea and I'm not going to even try to address this question but I can tell you how it worked on the ground.

I live 2 blocks from the shootout. A little after 4 am, 2 SWAT guys knocked on our door, announced that they were police, asked if they could come it, I said yes of course, please come in and they walked through every room in our apartment. They opened all the closet doors and were very thorough but very brief. They were clearly looking for a person and not distracted by any of the stuff in our apartment or distracted by comments we made to them, such as thanks, good luck. I don't know what they would have done if we had refused, but knowing what was going on, we welcomed them. That's pretty much it.
posted by bobobox at 8:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [75 favorites]

Re Robin Young picture: I thought it was nice follow up to her interview with her nephew this morning. It felt like she was kind of connecting the name with the face during the conversation.
posted by maryr at 8:05 AM on April 19, 2013

the police are asking people not give out important info

Ah, the over-mods. Fair enough and legit if they're concerned.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:05 AM on April 19, 2013

Otherwise I'm totally for posting scanner updates of the critical and game ending type in the thread


The problem with "critical and game ending" scanner information is that you don't know how to correctly identify it until the game is over.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I really, really don't think this plot originated from Chechnya. The older brother maybe had some experience there, but this seems like something closer to the dc sniper killings-- a folie a deux with two family members that are close to each other but isolated from the community somehow.

It doesn't seem to me like these guys have outside support if they're robbing 7-11s for getaway money. Previous Chechen terrorist incidents usually have involved suicide attacks or well-planned hostage incidents. And ethnic Russians, Russian nationals, and/or demands of the Russian government. A politically earnest loose-cannon scrabbling for an exit strategy seems more likely to me.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

This kid was actively seeking to murder more people. It's not like he was fleeing from a drive by shooting or an armed robbery. This is somebody who maimed hundreds of people, killed two cops, and was armed with explosives and guns and was murdering people indiscriminately and actively.

So yes, putting a city on lockdown and searching house to house is warranted, and I'll be shocked if very many people are upset about it. What they would be upset about is letting this kid escape so he can murder again.
posted by empath at 8:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Over the course of Boston's most challenging week, hospital workers have been a shining light
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

The biggest consequence here may be the end of publicly available police scanner feeds.

Idiots posting uninformed bullshit online, and moreso the national media running with unverified and unverifiable said bullshit in real time is shocking.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:07 AM on April 19, 2013

Given that we don't know exactly what is happening, I think we should wait a bit on the "the Constitution is being shredded" meme.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

The political fallout from this is going to be immense. This is Obama's 9/11.

Perps likely caught within a week. No critical failures of government branches. No diversion of resources to other follies.

The fallout of this will be that it will serve of a big giant example of how it is supposed to be done.
posted by srboisvert at 8:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [82 favorites]

More for folks looking for a source about the vests:

A law enforcement source told the Globe that an explosive trigger was found on Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s body at the morgue.
posted by mediareport at 8:07 AM on April 19, 2013

This is somebody who maimed hundreds of people, killed two cops, and was armed with explosives and guns and was murdering people indiscriminately and actively.

Killed two cops? Did MBTA cop die?
posted by maryr at 8:07 AM on April 19, 2013

Linguists of MeFi, how does one pronounce the suspects' names?

Not a linguist, but Robin Young's nephew, who characterized Dzokhar as a close friend from high school, consistently pronounced the name "Joe-har". His NPR interlocutor pronounced it "Joe-kar". The young man did not correct the elder.
posted by mwhybark at 8:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

When all is said and done, I think the bombing itself - apart from for the victims - will turn out to be less of a landmark event than the reporting of the bombing and subsequent police investigation.

There are parallels - when Mossad teams killed Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai in 2010 it was arguably the first time proper spy agency actions had been captured, dissected, analysed and disseminated to the wider public. It was the first of its kind. When the first Gulf War took place, the embedding of media within the military and the speed at which information flowed back home via 24 hour news channels brought a step change in how the media reported war. That was evident by 2003 when Iraq was invaded again.

But now, when smart phones and social media are common currency, we have entered a new era. One in which the flow of information has reached epic and epidemic proportions. News anchors must say something to fill the time on air. Producers cannot switch to other stories and come back when news has changed because fresh news is measured in fractions of a minute, and must compete with large social media platforms like Twitter whose reputations are not at stake if their content is incorrect. The flow of information itself has changed - it is still largely coming from the mainstream media by volume but increasingly the scoops are coming from social media - the eyewitness videos and photos, the updates and alerts - as well as the aggregation and analysis.

Reddit and 4chan's somewhat unedifying attempts to track the bomber are part of that story. But a more important factor has been the extent to which the wider media have actively chosen to lower the barriers for fact checking in a bid to get news out more quickly. Social media at once provides them with titbits and clues, it allows consumers to find news more quickly, but it has exposed the underlying competition for news provision that has been slowly choking the industry for several years. Put simply, the leading news channels have reacted by making a conscious decision to sacrifice quality for speed, expertise for immediacy, facts for accounts.

More clearly than any recent event I can think of, the Boston bombing has exposed what the future news media landscape looks like in the era of social media - where we gain and where we lose; how we value timeliness and some later aggregation over more deliberate composition and structure of our news. How we become both consumers and contributors.

We have also seen how terror can and will work, too. I'm not in Boston, so this is perhaps easy for me to say. But in the areas where the suspected bomber is believed to be, residents are likely safer than they were last week with the level of police presence. And yet, like the news cycle, the reaction is characterised by extremes. Heightened emotions and fears, a sense that everything is so close. Ignorance is no longer bliss. We can chart our proximity to terror more easily - through Twitter, Google Maps, Facebook. We can indulge our fears more easily by listening in, tracking, scanning, checking and following. We gain one perspective but lose distance.

Long term also the pattern of these events and the way they have been reported makes the US more, not less attractive for terrorists even if the risk of capture or death has also increased. The same is true to a lesser degree for other developed countries. I hope that prediction is wrong, but if terrorism is measured by impact, eyeballs and column inches then social media-heavy societies are attractive targets. The obvious point was made in a roundabout way by Syrian rebels in a message laden with irony: Boston Bombings Represent a Sorrowful Scene of What Happens in Syria Every Day. Do Accept Our Condolences.
posted by MuffinMan at 8:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [80 favorites]

but this is a very frightening precedent.

No it isn't.
posted by OmieWise at 8:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

Infographic.
posted by The White Hat at 8:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [35 favorites]

In the interview posted earlier, his classmate from high school said that they called him "Johar" in school, but I think his actually name is pronounced more like "Joe-kar" or "Djoe-kar".
posted by peacheater at 8:10 AM on April 19, 2013

Tweet from a Guardian reporter:
@AdamGabbatt Officer to reporters: "Guys if you knew what was happening you wouldn't be standing there right now" #watertown
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

See how persuasive rank assertion can be?
posted by OmieWise at 8:10 AM on April 19, 2013

In every big city, every day there are people looking to murder more people. Labeling people terrorists doesn't help, they are criminals just the same as gangsters or school shooters, etc.
posted by JJ86 at 8:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

They moved here in 2002 when we were at the height of Islamophobia? Seems strange.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:12 AM on April 19, 2013

mwhybark: "Robin Young's nephew, who characterized Dzokhar as a close friend from high school, consistently pronounced the name "Joe-har". His NPR interlocutor pronounced it "Joe-kar". The young man did not correct the elder."

They're both kinda wrong and kinda right. The kh is pronounced like the ch in Scottish "loch".
posted by brokkr at 8:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

My family lived for three weeks in the center of the DC sniper madness... Snipers on people's sheds and orders for an entire metro area not to congregate or leave your home is not ok.

Not really unprecedented, is it? There was a manhunt for an escaped criminal in Bethesda once, and the local cops came around my school and politely asked us not the leave the set shop and to lock all the doors. One dude, unarmed, had not hurt or killed anyone recently. If there were someone casually dropping bombs off around DC, a town that has a substantially number of snipers on the rooftops anyway, I bet there would be similar restrictions in place. What I remember from the sniper attacks was the constant fear. The cops in Boston are trying to minimize any further civilian casualties, and I respect that.
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

The more we hear about the suspects from people who know them, the more absolutely normal they sound. Source: Boston.com live twitter feed.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Thing is, for all the police scanner stuff that was misinterpreted or just wrong, the posts from that were saying "stay the fuck out of Watertown; it's a damn war zone" long before any of the official news sources last night.

So, that right there is the good that comes along with the bad.
posted by Dr.Enormous at 8:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Effectively, you have alleged killers on the run with guns and bombs, and people trying to stop them from doing that. It's a warzone - civillians do not belong in a warzone. What alternatives do you propose that would keep the maximum number of civillians safe other than telling them to run and hide?

You ask. You can go door to door, but you ask to come in, you don't demand. You go on the news and you ask that people stay inside, but you don't compel them. You give them the tools to keep themselves safe and you let them choose the best way for them to do it.

What if another bomb is unleashed, and people unable to get to safety are blown up by it?
posted by corb at 8:14 AM on April 19, 2013

I really hope he's taken alive, both because it's one less death and because we all want to know wtf was going through his and his brother's heads.
posted by alms at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Do we even know if these guys are practicing muslims?
posted by Think_Long at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013

I DO get the no info thing but come on the guy had to rob a 7/11, has been on the run for over 8 hours. I doubt his cell phone is working and he is actively checking twitter or listening to the police scanner on tunein.
posted by Burgatron at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013

Note I don't think anybody should freakout because they came here in 2002; it's just that I'm anticipating the reductive reasoning of "they came here post 9/11 to blow up more shit." And yeah, not so great to be like: U.S. WILL HULK SMASH but shit, we've lived through this and we know how irrational this stuff can get.

It just doesn't make sense though, even with reductive reasoning, because they were little kids in 2002.
posted by sweetkid at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Serious question, guys. I'm in the Harvard Square area. Is it a good idea to walk my dog? I don't think it's a bad idea, and she's getting antsy. I don't blame her. I only let her do a quick #1 this morning. Wouldn't you be?
posted by Countess Elena at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013

There are a lot of police infringements on civil rights that concern me, but locking down the city one time while they look for a bomber on the loose really isn't one of them.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

They moved here in 2002 when we were at the height of Islamophobia? Seems strange.

Probably not as intense as things were back home, though.
posted by drezdn at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013

Also: NY Mag on the suspect.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013

corb: "You ask. You can go door to door, but you ask to come in, you don't demand."

Aren't reports from Boston saying that's exactly what's happening?
posted by Bugbread at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

Can we stop assuming and telling each other about the irrational xenophobic reactions our fellow citizens are going to have because of supposition X, each statement of which mostly just seems to lay a little more groundwork for cynical defeatism about our future politics.
posted by crayz at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [20 favorites]

I know there are tactical reasons for it, but I still don't like it. This is the first time I'm aware of police shutting down an entire major U.S. city due to a single perpetrator.

Hopefully there will be some lives saved if only due to people not having to drive on Boston highways today.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

You give them the tools to keep themselves safe and you let them choose the best way for them to do it.

This isn't just a matter of personal choice, though. If I go outside and end up distracting the LEOs from doing their jobs, I am increasing the risk for others.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

So anyway what beef do Chechens have against America? I thought that the USA was more or less on their side? Islamist terrrorists really have an issue with biting the hand that feeds.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013

They moved here in 2002 when we were at the height of Islamophobia? Seems strange.

I have a few Bangladeshi inlaws who moved to New York in 2002 while other Muslim family members were moving the hell out. Even post-9/11 it was much much more attractive to them in terms of opportunities, education, etc than staying where they were. They would laugh at you if you suggested it weren't,
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

His NPR interlocutor pronounced it "Joe-kar".

Some men just want to see the world burn.
posted by SPrintF at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

I am having a hard time hearing from all the personal sources that these kids just seemed like normal guys... but do normal nice sweet people attempt to hold up a 7-11? That's an awfully desperate thing to do. Something just doesn't seem right, but I'll let time tell.
posted by hillabeans at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013

Do we even know if these guys are practicing muslims?

We know that at least one of them was. The older brother.
posted by OmieWise at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013

Countess Elena, I would let the dog use a Bounty towel in the house just this once.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Do we even know if these guys are practicing muslims?

According to that NY Mag piece, he likes Islam on Facebook.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Think_Long - Reports have suggested yes. From people who knew them, also from (unconfirmed if they are the suspects though) fb and youtube profiles.
posted by Burgatron at 8:17 AM on April 19, 2013

Kerry Sanders on NBC confirms he sees a man in a "turquoise shirt" lying motionless on the ground.
posted by BobbyVan

That's Jeff from The Wiggles, he does that all the time.
posted by dr_dank at 8:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [31 favorites]

My friend is driving up from NYC tonight to visit family. I don't feel like I can say he's doing something unwise but...
posted by sweetkid at 8:17 AM on April 19, 2013

That's an awfully desperate thing to do.

Well yeah, but wouldn't you be pretty desperate if your photos were all over the world as the most wanted people?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

What if another bomb is unleashed, and people unable to get to safety are blown up by it?

If another bomb is unleashed in Boston right now, it may kill a couple of people in their home. It won't kill a hundred people at a public transit hub. We can what-if the situation to the nth degree, but I personally am okay with a lockdown to catch a suspect in a bombing that "only" killed three people through sheer luck. Get back to me if this is still going on next week.
posted by Etrigan at 8:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

This is the first time I'm aware of police shutting down an entire major U.S. city due to a single perpetrator.

The feds shut down the entire US airplane system and left people stranded for days. Locking down a city while hunting for a known bomber is not unreasonable.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

According to that NY Mag piece, he likes Islam on Facebook.

I like Solaris on FB. Don't actually use it, though.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

Been watching this tensely from far away, and I second roomthreeseventeen. Countess Elena, we'd rather see you in the thread than on the news.
posted by kinnakeet at 8:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

For the past few hours I've had a blog window open (I'm not going to link to it, the relevant information is here and the rest is ....) his has been crowd-source doxxing these people.

It has been uncanny to watch.
I think their "facebook" pages have been torn apart.

According to that NY Mag piece, he likes Islam on Facebook.

There are indications from the website above he liked Jihadi videos on YouTube, but I'd not be 100% sure. Being Chechen there'd be a possibility, and if they were a brother-team they'd not necessarily reach out to anyone else.
posted by Mezentian at 8:19 AM on April 19, 2013

So anyway what beef do Chechens have against America?

What beef did these two Chechens have?
posted by drezdn at 8:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [49 favorites]

If we can't trust the official media arm of the Chechen mujahideen, who can we trust?

In all honesty, I would trust the word of the Chechen mujahideen sooner than I'd trust the Butcher of Grozny to "assist with the investigation."
posted by Sys Rq at 8:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

You ask. You can go door to door, but you ask to come in, you don't demand

Well, the police have every right to demand to come in in exigent circumstances and have had it for years; it also sounds like they are asking rather than demanding and everyone's letting them in because clearly that's what you do; the SWAT team isn't coming back to arrest you for the pot plants in the basement.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:19 AM on April 19, 2013

Do we even know if these guys are practicing muslims?

Bloomberg is up on the work TV, and they had some guy call in who had trained with older brother guy at an MMA gym.

(Paraphrased)
Bloomberg anchor: did you get an idea that he was a religious man?
MMA guy: well, I know he didn't drink
Bloomberg: was it for religious reasons?
MMA guy: I don't know for sure, but probably
Bloomberg: what religion would you say he was?
MMA guy: I don't know
Bloomberg: if you had to guess?
MMA guy: probably Muslim? I only know him from MMA...he won the Golden Gloves competition a while back
Bloomberg: you should contact law enforcement, you have useful information
[end interview]

Bloomberg anchor: ...Muslim Chechnyan terrorist...
posted by phunniemee at 8:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

Well yeah, but wouldn't you be pretty desperate if your photos were all over the world as the most wanted people?

I'd probably go to the cops / FBI / media to clear my name if I was innocent.
posted by hillabeans at 8:19 AM on April 19, 2013

@mlevenson
One friend described Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as a laid-back "stoner."

I know MetaFilter likes to joke about this subject, but, this is what the marijuana will do to you. If I had a quarter for the number of times a person on marijuana has taken a "toke" and suffered a "MAJOR FREAK OUT" then I'd do my laundry a whole lot more more than I do, I'll tellyou that
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Re: 4th Amendment issues on the door to door searches

There is an exigent circumstances exception to the warrant requirement.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

MMA guy: probably Muslim? I only know him from MMA...he won the Golden Gloves competition a while back
Bloomberg: you should contact law enforcement, you have useful information

I like the implication that it's the Golden Gloves information that makes the reporter tell him to contact police. THEY MUST KNOW TO SEND THEIR BEST BOXER.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [34 favorites]

So anyway what beef do Chechens have against America?

What beef did these two Chechens have?

For real. Exactly what we thought would happen if the perpetrators weren't reg'lar white guys is happening.
posted by sweetkid at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [18 favorites]

I'm supposed to get on a train tonight to go to Boston. Every minute this jerkoff stays loose my chances of it getting cancelled go up, given that Amtrak is stopping in Rhode Island right now.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2013

If I had a quarter for the number of times a person on marijuana has taken a "toke" and suffered a "MAJOR FREAK OUT" then I'd do my laundry a whole lot more more than I do, I'll tellyou that

#420NO
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2013

After Boston, they were going to target REO Speedwagon & Journey. The '70s buttrock wars have begun.

That's Jeff from The Wiggles, he does that all the time.

dr_dank, this is certain to be a long and fast-moving thread. You've made two jokes now. Maybe take the rest to chat.metafilter.com?
posted by mediareport at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

The NYTimes liveblog has a link to this photo essay about the older brother in which he describes himself as "very religious." "The subject also described himself as a “very religious,” if newly devout Muslim at the time: “Tamerlan says he doesn’t smoke or drink anymore. ‘God said no alcohol.’ A Muslim, he says, ‘There are no values anymore,’ and worries that ‘people can’t control themselves.’”"
posted by OmieWise at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

>Bloomberg: what religion would you say he was?
MMA guy: I don't know
Bloomberg: if you had to guess?
MMA guy: probably Muslim? I only know him from MMA...he won the Golden Gloves competition a while back
Bloomberg: you should contact law enforcement, you have useful information
[end interview]

Bloomberg anchor: ...Muslim Chechnyan terrorist...

This really happened? Jesus fuck.
posted by xbonesgt at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2013

I know MetaFilter likes to joke about this subject, but, this is what the marijuana will do to you.

WHAT
posted by kinnakeet at 8:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

Oh hey, the Boy Scouts are going to allow gay scouts.
posted by drezdn at 8:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

I know MetaFilter likes to joke about this subject, but, this is what the marijuana will do to you.

Is that you, Rob Delany?
posted by drezdn at 8:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

They moved here in 2002 when we were at the height of Islamophobia? Seems strange.

To immigrants, America is still America. American-brand Islamophobia is jack shit compared to getting shelled by the Russians or having to live in some backwoods village for the rest of your life hiding from getting shelled by the Russians.
posted by griphus at 8:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [28 favorites]

I just.... none of this makes sense to me. It sound like the older brother was maybe isolated and uncomfortable, but he clearly had human contact at his MMA gym and he had relationships with women so he wasn't totally out of touch. And I don't think popular stoner kids when I think bombers, either, as in the case of the younger brother.

And they came to the US too young to really care about Chechnya's struggles, I'm betting, and anyway what would Chechens have to gain by this? It's just so... odd. I know we don't have all the info yet, but nothing we've heard so far has made me think, "Oh, that makes sense," even a horrible, bomber-logic kind of sense.
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile twitter needs to stop it with the gimmick accounts.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:23 AM on April 19, 2013

"You ask. You can go door to door, but you ask to come in, you don't demand."

This is what's on the Boston Police Department's homepage:

Residents in Boston, Watertown, Newton, Belmont, and Cambridge: City-wide shelter in place is advised as this investigation unfolds. Please understand we have an armed and dangerous person(s) still at large and police actively pursuing every lead in this active emergency event. Please be patient and use common sense. Avoid congregating in large crowds until this person(s) are apprehended. We will continue to update the public with more information as it becomes available.

posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

having to live in some backwoods village for the rest of your life hiding from getting shelled by the Russians.

In Kyrgyzstan? These guys are not from Chechnya, I thought we got that cleared up. They lived in Dagestan for less than a year and in Boston for most of their life.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I believe the "this is what the marijuana will do to you" comment was Rory's sarcastic comment on what some anti-drug folk may actually believe.

At least, I hope that's the case.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Is anyone else confused as to why they tried to knock over a 7-11 for cash? Anyone that's been in the states for any period of time knows that they do cash drops every couple of minutes.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 8:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Evidently their mother stole $1600 worth of clothes in Natick last year.
posted by Perplexity at 8:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Oh hey, the Boy Scouts are going to allow gay scouts.

Please don't be joking. We need something cool to happen, and Patton Oswalt hasn't totally scratched that itch.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:25 AM on April 19, 2013

NPR replaying Robin Young's interview with her nephew. She gives him the pseudonym Z.

...So his name's Zach, then?
posted by maryr at 8:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

L.P. Hatecraft: So anyway what beef do Chechens have against America? I thought that the USA was more or less on their side? Islamist terrrorists really have an issue with biting the hand that feeds.

I think these guys are Internet Islamists -- learned what their religion is about over the internet, which, as we all know, can make it easy to be an extremist about anything (vi vs. EMACS, civil rights, whatever). "I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them" sounds pretty alienated, so why have any compunctions about blowing these people up?

I don't think this has anything to do with Chechnya, other than that there's been a war there since the '90s, and this is what you get from that. I agree with Pogo_Fuzzybutt, I think these people are more Columbine than 9/11. They just happen to be Muslim immigrants, not metal heads from Colorado.
posted by wormwood23 at 8:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Anyone that's been in the states for any period of time knows that they do cash drops every couple of minutes.

I have lived in the US my entire life and I was not aware of this.
posted by Flamingo at 8:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

Interview with their uncle in DC -
Interviewer: "what what behind it?"
Uncle - "Being losers!"

Stay safe fellow Bostonians.
posted by fermezporte at 8:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [19 favorites]

Is anyone else confused as to why they tried to knock over a 7-11 for cast? Anyone that's been in the states for any period of time knows that they do cash drops every couple of minutes.

....I've lived in the United States for my entire life and I didn't know that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

...So his name's Zach, then?

There are lots of Z boy names. Zachary, Zane, Zander, etc.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on April 19, 2013

Obama was one of the few Democrats that seemed unchanged in a position against the war in Afghanistan. Even Hillary Clinton was like "yeah, sure" (something I remembered in the 2007 primary season).

Plus as said previously, we are not going to war with Chechnya because Russia, and also because these kids have been here ten years, they're ours.
posted by sweetkid at 8:27 AM on April 19, 2013

zombieflanders: They need to ratify the decision but they did vote to make the move.
posted by caution live frogs at 8:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Is anyone else confused as to why they tried to knock over a 7-11 for cast?

Reportedly, they had dreams of being the Chechnyan Coen Brothers, so it makes sense.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Obama is not Bush, and Biden is not Cheney. They will not stoke the fires of our worst impulses for their own political gains.

Other people will though. I don't think the immigration bill has any hope of passing now (at least in this particular Congress). Will also be interesting to see the impact of this on the next midterms.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013

Interview with their uncle in DC -
Interviewer: "what what behind it?"
Uncle - "Being losers!"


If you are a loser in the land of opportunity, what are your options?
posted by ennui.bz at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I fear this NPR connection is going to get play. NPR REPORTER IS FRIENDS WITH MUSLIMS CHECHNYAN TERRORIST!

Ugh.
posted by Big_B at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh hey, the Boy Scouts are going to allow gay scouts.

Helluva Friday for a news dump.
posted by Jahaza at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

....I've lived in the United States for my entire life and I didn't know that.

It's been two decades since I worked at one, but a good way to get fired, even back then, was to have more than 50 bucks in the till.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013

From the photo essay by Johannes Hirn:

Tamerlan says he doesn't usually take his shirt off so girls don't get bad ideas: "I'm very religious."

And:

Tamerlan says he doesn't drink or smoke anymore: "God said no alcohol." A muslim, he says: "There are no values anymore," and worries that "people can't control themselves."

Unless this is a different person, which it doesn't seem it is, I think it's OK to say he's Muslim. That doesn't mean this is Islamic terrorism, but when he says he doesn't have any American friends and doesn't understand Americans, it's unnerving.
posted by daveliepmann at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I actually appreciate the (clear) jokes in the thread, but could we not link to profiles or information on people who haven't been officially connected to the suspects? I can't even imagine how hard the news was for the Brown University student's family that the internet decided he was some kind of sneak bomber, and I don't think linking to mugshots of (possible) family members is a good thing.
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:29 AM on April 19, 2013

There is a pretty good percentage of Americans that hate America enough to try something like this. Most mass murderers in 2012 shootings were not foreigners or Muslim.
posted by JJ86 at 8:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Is that the uncle on WHDH saying "Don't put this on the whole Chechen ethnicity!!"

Edit: Yes. He was very passionate, pleading with his nephew to turn himself in.
posted by Eyebeams at 8:29 AM on April 19, 2013

In Kyrgyzstan? These guys are not from Chechnya, I thought we got that cleared up. They lived in Dagestan for less than a year and in Boston for most of their life.

Did we? I thought they ("they" including their family, who would be initiating all the migratory stuff) were Chechens who came to America via Kyrgyzstan.
posted by griphus at 8:30 AM on April 19, 2013

I fear this NPR connection is going to get play. NPR REPORTER IS FRIENDS WITH MUSLIMS CHECHNYAN TERRORIST!

Well, I fear that lots of people in this thread are getting themselves irrationally worked up over imaginary strawmen.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s profile on vKontakte, the Russian version of Facebook: What’s real, what’s fake, and what we don’t know
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:30 AM on April 19, 2013

Anybody who thinks this won't have an impact on the upcoming immigration bill doesn't fully understand the current American right.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

the police are asking people not give out important info

Ah, the over-mods. Fair enough and legit if they're concerned.
posted by RolandOfEld

Terrorists might be getting their info from Metafilter? That'll be a sorrowful "Mefi's own".
posted by 445supermag at 8:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

What's with the non-stop cop car ballet? There's a half dozen vehicles coming and going at any given time - I keep thinking they're breaking up the siege, but no, just police hopping in and out of cars and trucks that seem to be in constant motion.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:31 AM on April 19, 2013

Did they immigrate legally?
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:31 AM on April 19, 2013

NPR replaying Robin Young's interview with her nephew. She gives him the pseudonym Z.

Which is funny because they already interviewed him directly earlier and gave his name, which I now can't bring to mind.

Also, high-five to anyone who remembers Robin Young from Evening Magazine, back in the day.
posted by rtha at 8:31 AM on April 19, 2013

After last night waking to this? Good grief. I just hope when all's said and done the damage done is little over what's already been reported so far.
posted by hoople at 8:32 AM on April 19, 2013

Did we? I thought they ("they" including their family, who would be initiating all the migratory stuff) were Chechens who came to America via Kyrgyzstan.

They are ethnic Chechens who have never lived in Chechnya. To my knowlege Russia never shelled Chechens in Kyrgyzstan nor Dagestan.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:32 AM on April 19, 2013

What's with the non-stop cop car ballet?

Coffee delivery.
posted by drezdn at 8:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I don't feel at all confident in assuming these two guys had/have the same personality type or motivations.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The bombers' uncle was on just now saying that the kids 1.) had no military training that he knew of, 2.) were ethnic Chechens who had lived in Kyrgyzstan, 3.) did not represent Muslims or Chechens. He also said he loves America, would have turned the kids in to authorities himself if he'd known what they were going to do, and wants his nephew to turn himself in.
posted by BlueJae at 8:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Did we? I thought they ("they" including their family, who would be initiating all the migratory stuff) were Chechens who came to America via Kyrgyzstan.
posted by griphus

I'm reading that they were of Chechen descent/ethnicity. So it'd be like calling an American Latino as someone "from Mexico" or a good chunk of Boston as "from Ireland."
posted by vacapinta at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013

zombieflanders: Not a joke according to Reuters - the boy scouts are set to end the ban on gay members.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Or maybe she's just being an attention whore. I don't know.

Just for context, I think it'd be safe to say that Robin Young is a beloved local broadcaster and I'd cut her an enormous amount of slack that she's just trying to do the right thing and contribute information the best she can. She hosts the mid-day news show on WBUR and has for a very long time. Hearing her on the air the day after the marathon, slowly breaking down as she kept reporting more horrors from Monday, was one of the most moving things I've ever heard. By the end of the show she could barely speak.
posted by range at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [21 favorites]

And all this on the 20th anniversary of Waco to boot.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013

I dunno about y'all but I'm sick of living in a shitty Jerry Bruckheimer movie

All we need now is for this guy to steal a Hummer and have Nic Cage chase him in a Ferrari.
posted by hellojed at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

(I should say I saw the interview with the uncle on NBC, but I imagine it was being broadcast all over the place.)
posted by BlueJae at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2013

The uncle's statements as a whole are pretty incredible to watch. He's going out of his way to emphasize that he's ashamed and horrified at his nephew's actions, that this has nothing to do with religion nor Chechnya.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Plus as said previously, we are not going to war with Chechnya because Russia, and also because these kids have been here ten years, they're ours.

Are they? Do we know what their citizenship status is? How they personally identify?

I understand you're trying to stop the rush of "oh noes terrorists" but the rush to "they were just average Americans" is equally as bad.
posted by corb at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

zombieflanders: Please don't be joking. We need something cool to happen, and Patton Oswalt hasn't totally scratched that itch.

Does this help?
posted by MissySedai at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2013

I agree with Pogo_Fuzzybutt, I think these people are more Columbine than 9/11.

Events over the last 24 hours remind me quite a bit of Benjamin Smith, who didn't seem to have much of a plan beyond "drive by ethnic neighborhoods and houses of worship and shoot things up."
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Considering that the alternative is "embroil the country in a 10-year war that results in pointless American casualties and costs trillions of dollars", I'm not sure I mind this turn of events quite so much.

There's more than one alternative here, and I think the future will hold more complex eventualities than either one raised by EmpressCallipygos or koeselitz above. Given the track record of policymakers, the executive and the judiciary in recent years, I suspect those eventualities will be far less conducive to peace and justice than they otherwise could be.
posted by audi alteram partem at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2013

I'm reading that they were of Chechen descent/ethnicity.

Ah, I stand corrected. In post-Soviet countries, moving to a different country with looser immigration laws and then emigrating to America a a refugee was one of the major ways to get into America.

Also, yeah, the shelling was in Azerbaijan, not Chechnya. I got mixed up on that one too. Mea culpa.
posted by griphus at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2013

What's with the non-stop cop car ballet?

Coffee delivery.

And subsequent bathroom trips.
posted by maryr at 8:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I posted this on the other thread but at the very end so it might have gotten lost: Interview with the boys' uncle. Kind of heartbreaking.
posted by peacheater at 8:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

dr_dank, this is certain to be a long and fast-moving thread. You've made two jokes now. Maybe take the rest to chat.metafilter.com?

Better jokes than a bunch of dishtowel twisting speculation on What This Means and Imaginary Strawmen.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [21 favorites]

How they personally identify?

The older brother has been trying to get on the US olympic boxing team.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I don't know why they'd need coffee delivered; there's a Dunkin' in the Arsenal Mall, and a Starbucks across the street at the Target.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

What's with the non-stop cop car ballet?

Is it possible they're trying to quietly move someone from the area without triggering a massive media follow frenzy? (Doubtful, but I guess it's a slim chance.)
posted by _Mona_ at 8:36 AM on April 19, 2013

I dunno about y'all but I'm sick of living in a shitty Jerry Bruckheimer movie.

Can't be. Not enough lens flare.

What's up with the guy on the ground reported earlier?
posted by tilde at 8:36 AM on April 19, 2013

Boston manhunt: what is this round orb the SWAT team are using?

(containment vessel for explosives, apparently)
posted by Rumple at 8:36 AM on April 19, 2013

I don't know why they'd need coffee delivered; there's a Dunkin' in the Arsenal Mall, and a Starbucks across the street at the Target.

Probably not staffed right now.
posted by stopgap at 8:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

According to the Guardian Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov has posted his opinions on Instagram:

Any attempt to make a link between Chechnya and the Tsarnaevs, if they are guilty, is in vain. They grew up in the US, their views and beliefs were formed there. The roots of evil must be searched for in America. The whole world must battle with terrorism.
posted by Conductor71 at 8:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Maybe someone answered this but I can't search it on this thread: What happened with the post from Metafilter yesterday about the 17 yr old turning himself in claiming his photo had been spread as a suspect? It looks like the post was removed. Did that turn out to not be true and the photo was actually one of these two guys?
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:37 AM on April 19, 2013

Elementary Penguin: "I don't know why they'd need coffee delivered; there's a Dunkin' in the Arsenal Mall"

The term of art is "Dunks."
posted by Chrysostom at 8:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Did they immigrate legally?

It's my understanding that they are both LPRs.
posted by MissySedai at 8:38 AM on April 19, 2013

Liquidwolf: no, mods just thought it didn't need its own thread.
posted by capricorn at 8:39 AM on April 19, 2013

Unless this is a different person, which it doesn't seem it is, I think it's OK to say he's Muslim. That doesn't mean this is Islamic terrorism, but when he says he doesn't have any American friends and doesn't understand Americans, it's unnerving.

And yet, he still takes his shirt off in photos, has a girlfriend, and has physical contact with her. Saying "I'm very religious" or that he's Muslim, honestly doesn't mean much to me. People say a lot of exaggerated stuff when they know it'll be public. Muslim" and "very religious" are pretty broad and vague terms that don't follow a formula. They are identifications - like any identification, religious or others, that can be very fluid and contextual. I know "very religious" Muslims that have per-marital sex with boyfriends/girlfriends, drink, smoke pot, wear hijab yet have boyfriends and also cheat on those boyfriends. What Muslims (or anyone) do off the record, versus for the record, can be pretty varying. Sure he identified as Muslim, but so what? At this point, it doesn't even seem relevant since it's so vague.
posted by raztaj at 8:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Mod note: Please consider taking Boy Scout chat elsewhere? And be mindful with your flagging.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s profile on vKontakte, the Russian version of Facebook: What’s real

We don't know

what’s fake

We don't know

and what we don’t know

See above.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

The girlfriend photos are from 2010.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:40 AM on April 19, 2013

Instagram.

We're getting important political statements from Instagram.

2013, what is this.
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [31 favorites]

Minor point: Both the Bruins and the Red Sox are supposed to be playing this evening at home. No word yet on game cancellations.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:40 AM on April 19, 2013

CNN Breaking News: "We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [107 favorites]

The thing that gets me is all the people who, in response to this Boston Police Department tweet warning people not to broadcast tactical positions of homes being searched, are retweeting it with prefixes like "Aimed at media." No, it's aimed at everyone. There are people with smartphones (and Instagram) everywhere. The line between "residents" and "the media" becomes thinner every day—I think I saw in the last thread that there actually was a reporter reporting from his home during all of this, because the events that were unfolding were occurring on his doorstep. So sometimes there is no line.
posted by limeonaire at 8:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

You know, it seems the most damaging thing the perp could do at this point is to tie a brick to his feet, jump into the Charles River and never be seen again.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

According to the Guardian Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov has posted his opinions on Instagram:

According to Wikipedia, Ramzan also claimed in 2005 that, "Chechnya is the 'most peaceful place in Russia' and in a few years it would also be 'the wealthiest and the most peaceful' place in the world."
posted by Jahaza at 8:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The term of art is "Dunks

I've always heard Dunkie's, but maybe I'm confusing it with Cumby's?
posted by maryr at 8:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

"We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."

"We're now being told it's a cat."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [175 favorites]

Rachel Maddow MSNBC ‏@maddow 27s
On a northbound train into NYC. Conductor: "For those of you wondering about beyond New Haven? There is no beyond New Haven."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [28 favorites]

"We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."

You decided to walk him then?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

I find the name Tamerlaine a very interesting coincidence. It's a Europeanization of Timur, who was a Mongol warlord in the 1400s, and whose story was told in the play Tamburlaine the Great by Marlowe. (I read it in college, and it was waay more thrilling than most plays of the time required by my Boston College English degree.)

A savvy military leader, a Muslim, and the founder of a dynasty. I wonder if this guy, disaffected and cut off (except from his brother), identified too much?

Long Wikipedia page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur
posted by wenestvedt at 8:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

My wife is from Southboro, her family is from Worcester, they definitely say Dunks. Could be regional variations.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013

Any media organizations reach out to Gerard Depardieu yet?
posted by BobbyVan at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013

Obama is not Bush, and Biden is not Cheney. They will not stoke the fires of our worst impulses for their own political gains.

That is only because the alleged perpetrators are not the Tea Party sympathizers or NRA members that Chris Matthews, David Sirota of Salon many here on the blue had hoped.
posted by otto42 at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

What happened with the post from Metafilter yesterday about the 17 yr old turning himself in claiming his photo had been spread as a suspect? It looks like the post was removed. Did that turn out to not be true and the photo was actually one of these two guys?

No, completely unrelated. The New York Post’s disgrace: The paper smears a kid and a young man on its front page as possible terrorists. Honestly, it was debunked even before it was in the newspaper and spread around Facebook.
posted by smackfu at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Conductor: "For those of you wondering about beyond New Haven? There is no beyond New Haven."

How Lovecraftian.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [25 favorites]

The reason everyone is surprised about these kids embracing terrorism is because they learned much of what they know about Islam on the Internet on sites such as YouTube... and learned a considerable portion of that from terrorists. Chances are that if the uncle saw anything, he just saw relatively dedicated kids who had become perhaps a bit more obviously religious, but who didn't make enough of an effort to learn how to integrate a bit better with the outside world.

It's not about Islam, and most certainly not about Chechens. It's about the terrorist preachers who preyed upon their somewhat understandable desire for faith, meaning, and identity in order to teach them jihad.
posted by markkraft at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013

TheWhiteSkull: ""We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."

"We're now being told it's a cat.""

"Skip, I'm reading on social media that the hash-tag #hugeferret is trending"
posted by wcfields at 8:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

> "We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."

Is that an exact quote? Because if so we're getting into "when Marge Simpson put the cat out" territory.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Suspect "pretty good" at wrestling.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:45 AM on April 19, 2013

The reason everyone is surprised about these kids embracing terrorism is because they learned much of what they know about Islam on the Internet on sites such as YouTube

citation?
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

He speculates that the bombers' motivation is that they're "losers."

I wonder how much credit America's culture of individualism is owed for these episodes of mass nihilist violence. In some places if you turn into a violent lunatic, society asks "what did we do wrong?", in America we ask "what was wrong with him? oh. loser"

There's never anything we need to change about ourselves or understand or empathize about with others. We just need more police and guns and prisons and mental help for all these god damn losers in our fuck yeah #1 country on earth.
posted by crayz at 8:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

ABC says the suspects' dad knew about the bombing, urges Dzhokhar to surrender...?
posted by homelystar at 8:45 AM on April 19, 2013

A savvy military leader, a Muslim, and the founder of a dynasty. I wonder if this guy, disaffected and cut off (except from his brother), identified too much?

It's a fairly common name; I don't think this is any more likely than a dude named Jesús thinking he's the messiah.
posted by griphus at 8:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

"We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."

Yes, but is it a Muslim dog?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

I've been taking one for the team and watching Fox. Every other word is "foreign" -- baseless speculation about "foreign training" and so forth. All talking to their own "experts." Contrast with CNN, which is showing their uncle scornfully saying "It's nothing to do with Chechnya -- they've never even been to Chechnya."
posted by tyllwin at 8:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

How long does the lockdown last if they don't find him tonight? Tomorrow? Next week? How long until the next lockdown when another criminal is on the loose? How many outstanding warrants are there in the Boston metro area?

Just call it "curfew". Countries have been doing it for centuries.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

The reason everyone is surprised about these kids embracing terrorism is because they learned much of what they know about Islam on the Internet on sites such as YouTube... and learned a considerable portion of that from terrorists.

It's not about Islam, and most certainly not about Chechens. It's about the terrorist preachers who preyed upon their somewhat understandable desire for faith, meaning, and identity in order to teach them jihad.

I don't really think we can claim to know anything of the sort about these kids.

That is only because the alleged perpetrators are not the Tea Party sympathizers or NRA members that Chris Matthews, David Sirota of Salon many here on the blue had hoped.

The only reason anyone here "hoped" it was a white dude was because we didn't want to see any more incidents of brown people getting shat on because some other unrelated brown person did something. Like this poor guy.

It had nothing to with a liberal agenda, unless you see "don't want to see any more racist warmongering and hate crimes" as a liberal agenda.
posted by emjaybee at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [37 favorites]

I always heard DD's, not Dunk's or Dunkie's.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

http://www.shouldilivetweetthescanner.info
posted by lullaby at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

markkraft: “It's not about Islam, and most certainly not about Chechens. It's about the terrorist preachers who preyed upon their somewhat understandable desire for faith, meaning, and identity in order to teach them jihad.”

Is this based on your personal interview with one of the suspects? If not, this is just as likely about how they were pissed off that they'd finally gotten "Gangnam Style" out of their heads when Psy had to go and release a new video.

We really, really don't know. And speculation about motive, about intent, even about guilt is a mistake at this point.
posted by koeselitz at 8:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

"and identity in order to teach them jihad."

Please stop making things up.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

So can we again throw around 1-31-07 Never Forget meme given all the miss information, militarized police manhunts, etc.?
posted by jeffburdges at 8:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Rustic Etruscan: I always heard DD's, not Dunk's or Dunkie's.

DD's or Dunks in my experience.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Holy shit, people. All these bytes being expended over "why?" and "how". The answer was given by the suspect's uncle: Because they're losers.
posted by dry white toast at 8:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

jeffburdges - No.
posted by maryr at 8:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Suspects' father (via ABC News, as homelystar linked to): "If they kill my second child, I will know that it is an inside job, a hit job. The police are to blame," the father told ABC News. "Someone, some organization is out to get them."

What in the actual hell? He indeed claims to have known about the bombing and said they spoke of it before it happened this week. Crazy, crazy. Apparently it runs in the family.
posted by youandiandaflame at 8:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's about the terrorist preachers who preyed upon their somewhat understandable desire for faith, meaning, and identity in order to teach them jihad.

Don't do this here, please.
posted by jessamyn at 8:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

"Is this based on your personal interview with one of the suspects?"

Perhaps you should check out Tamerlan's YouTube, with all the videos of "end of the world" themed radical Islam, and the favorites folder for terrorism.
posted by markkraft at 8:50 AM on April 19, 2013

Not to worry, I'm sure watching everyone lose their shit like this isn't giving America's enemies any ideas or anything.
posted by dry white toast at 8:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

A savvy military leader, a Muslim, and the founder of a dynasty. I wonder if this guy, disaffected and cut off (except from his brother), identified too much?

Perhaps of interest: Genghis (Чингиз) is also a pretty common name in Russia's southern regions. A land of Mongol warlords!
posted by Nomyte at 8:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Totasaid they spoke of it before it happened this week

It doesn't say that. I thought it suggested they spoke about it between the bombing and now.
posted by knapah at 8:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I laughed harder at this post than I have at anything in like a year. :-)
posted by Eyebeams at 8:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Dad is sooo getting hauled in for questioning. If he knew, he's an accessory, yes?
posted by emjaybee at 8:51 AM on April 19, 2013

That is only because the alleged perpetrators are not the Tea Party sympathizers or NRA members that Chris Matthews, David Sirota of Salon many here on the blue had hoped.

otto42: I resent the implication I hoped it would right-wing terrorists. Actually, that possibility scared me more than any of the others, because I have friends and acquaintances who might easily go this way and it makes me quite nervous. I only pointed out the fact that so much of recent terrorism in the US has been right-wing in origin to balance out a pretty steady stream of links to more right-leaning sources that had been publishing (later retracted) information implicating Islamic terrorists.

Believe me, I don't want to have to worry about right-wing terrorists anymore than I do Islamist ones, and I'm not rooting for any result other than the truth to come out and people to stay safe. But thanks for making me a poster-boy for a position I've never held.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

He indeed claims to have known about the bombing and said they spoke of it before it happened this week. Crazy, crazy. Apparently it runs in the family.

No, he said he spoke to them of the bombing. As in, possibly: "Dear son, I heard about the bombing. Are you okay?" "Yes Dad, I am fine, I hope they find who did this."
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

I hope nobody ever tries to ~understand~ me just by looking at my youtube account and facebook page or whatever.
posted by lullaby at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [41 favorites]

Brandon Blatcher: " Yes, but is it a Muslim dog?!"

It's a muzzlem.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

would we be having this discussion about wars in other places if they were Irish protestants from Belfast who moved here 10+ years ago?

Yes, I think so. And if they were US-born, moved to another country 10 years ago and did a similar thing there, we might be asking whether US entertainment violence or disdain for further gun-control regulation or latent racial tensions or something else about US culture had affected them. Wouldn't we?
posted by homelystar at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

CBS: FBI used State Department records to match names with photos.
posted by ericb at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013

How long does the lockdown last if they don't find him tonight? Tomorrow? Next week? How long until the next lockdown when another criminal is on the loose? How many outstanding warrants are there in the Boston metro area?

I think the first question is interesting, but I'm not that worried about how it will be answered. There's a perfectly reasonable balancing act that changes as time goes on and the cost of keeping people locked in their homes goes up; I'm guessing Boston will be mostly back to normal arrest or not, in a few days.

The question about lockdowns for outstanding warrants is just alarmist nonsense. The police are not going to start locking down whole neighborhoods because there are outstanding warrants; if nothing else, it's a waste of their time and resources. This is absolutely the kind of rare event that is completely useless for determining future policy.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

DD's or Dunks in my experience.
The last time I was up in Massachusetts, a British friend started referring to the store as Duncan and Donuts, or The Establishment of Messrs. Duncan and Donut.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [30 favorites]

He indeed claims to have known about the bombing and said they spoke of it before it happened this week.

I thought he meant that he'd heard there were bombings in Boston and talked to them to ask if they were alright, which is why they reassured them they were fine.
posted by pineappleheart at 8:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Dad is sooo getting hauled in for questioning.

Dad is in Russia.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Dad is sooo getting hauled in for questioning. If he knew, he's an accessory, yes?

Yes, but it looks like he's still in Russia, in Makhachkala. Extraditing him as an accessory could be difficult, although I'm sure they'll ask if he'd like to cooperate on the investigation.

Oh, looks like I misread and that he was asking if his sons were okay. Either way he might still be part of the investigation after the fact.
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:53 AM on April 19, 2013

Youtube channel /= window to someone's psyche.
posted by emjaybee at 8:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Dad is sooo getting hauled in for questioning. If he knew, he's an accessory, yes?

According to the ABC link, Dad is in Russia, which will complicate that.
posted by immlass at 8:54 AM on April 19, 2013

A number of Boston-area folks on my twitter feed are reporting their power just went out.
posted by anastasiav at 8:54 AM on April 19, 2013

[sarcasm] wait, I thought this was a false flag operation. [/sarcasm]
posted by Freen at 8:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

YouTube account that belongs to a person named Tamerlan Tsarnaev had bookmarked videos on terrorism
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:54 AM on April 19, 2013

Suspects' father (via ABC News, as homelystar linked to): "If they kill my second child, I will know that it is an inside job, a hit job. The police are to blame," the father told ABC News. "Someone, some organization is out to get them."

What in the actual hell? He indeed claims to have known about the bombing and said they spoke of it before it happened this week. Crazy, crazy. Apparently it runs in the family.

Reminds me of the Egyptian father of one of the 9/11 plane hijackers... "My son would never have done this."

Doesn't seem hard to understand.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

No, he said he spoke to them of the bombing. As in, possibly: "Dear son, I heard about the bombing. Are you okay?" "Yes Dad, I am fine, I hope they find who did this."

You are right. I apologize, I misread the story; the dad maintains they are innocent
posted by homelystar at 8:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I can't tell you if the dog was muslim, but I do know he was dark-furred.
posted by marienbad at 8:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

evidenceofabsence: "DD's or Dunks in my experience.
The last time I was up in Massachusetts, a British friend started referring to the store as Duncan and Donuts, or The Establishment of Messrs. Duncan and Donut."

I always heard it as "Da' fuk'n Dunk, ya go'of"
posted by wcfields at 8:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Dad is in Russia, which will complicate that.

This is about Chechen-related terrorism. Putin will probably torture the father personally.
posted by Slothrup at 8:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

There are things worth listening to happening on the scanners if you are the type to want to listen.

This one is working better for me than the one in the post:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ma-rt-9-window-cam
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:56 AM on April 19, 2013

Brandon Blatcher: " Yes, but is it a Muslim dog?!"

Room 641-A: "It's a muzzlim."


It's a muttslem. Duh.
posted by maryr at 8:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

What in the actual hell? He indeed claims to have known about the bombing and said they spoke of it before it happened this week. Crazy, crazy. Apparently it runs in the family.

If this is true, at what point can we move this from "suspect's father" and into the realm of "third suspect"?
posted by corb at 8:56 AM on April 19, 2013

"I hope nobody ever tries to ~understand~ me just by looking at my youtube account and facebook page or whatever."

Well, if you favorited the same things on YouTube that Tamerlan did, it would explain why you hated the Harry Potter movies so much.
posted by markkraft at 8:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I read that wrong as well, Arsenio..., homelystar, etc.

My apologies on being too jazzed up and forgetting reading comprehension is a thing I have.
posted by youandiandaflame at 8:57 AM on April 19, 2013

corb: that misunderstanding was clarified later. the father didn't "know about the bombing in advance" he reportedly just talked to them after the fact to see if they had been hurt.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013

YouTube account that belongs to a person named Tamerlan Tsarnaev had bookmarked videos on terrorism

And this is what Google's incessant "Would you like to use your real name?" popups get us. Are we sure this account isn't a fake? It seems awfully obvious for the dude to have used his real name and actually had a folder labelled "terrorism".
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Putin will probably torture the father personally.

Will he do it shirtless?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

This is about Chechen-related terrorism.

No it isn't. At least not necessarily.
posted by sweetkid at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Corb: I apparently completely misread what was being said by the father. As others pointed out here, it seems he simply asked about his son's AFTER the bombing and they replied they were fine. They didn't actually talk about the fact that his sons were involved. My bad on that one there...
posted by youandiandaflame at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Forget What You Think You Know About Al-Qaeda

The United States has eliminated generations of al Qaeda's leadership, forced it out of one safe haven in Afghanistan, hammered it in another haven inside Pakistan, and driven the organization to decentralize itself. These successes have made it virtually impossible to accurately describe anymore what we mean by "an al Qaeda attack." These changes mean my former colleagues in the counterterrorism world must consider a limitless universe of potential al Qaeda attacks and tactics, with a scattered and shadowy leadership structure to monitor.

What You Need To Know About Chechnya

There are indications—unconfirmed—that the two brothers sought by law enforcement may have ties to Chechnya. With the troubled Russian region in the news, here's a primer on a violent region that has long struggled against Russian hegemony.

Chechnya's War Just Arrived In The United States

These guys likely had no connection to the Caucasus Emirate in person; connection would likely have been online. This looks more and more like "resonant effects," rather than something planned and executed by a cadre-level organization.

Chechens I know are completely crushed. Let's hope the FBI gets to the remaining suspect before the Chechen refugee community in Boston does. Boston welcomed and protected Chechen asylum seekers like no other city. Those people will tear these kids to pieces for the harm they've done.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

Youtube channel /= window to someone's psyche.

Oh gods, I hope not. Given general YouTube comment quality and content.
posted by maryr at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Then we do not believe in mandatory lockdowns and mandatory house-to-house searches and grabbing everyone being suspicious with a cellphone or a shovel or a bag.

That is Iraq-level shit.

It also seems like a bit of an over-reaction if it really is just one guy. It's going to be hugely expensive if it goes on too long. It might be frightening but if it's only one person it's not really going to be a huge risk to public safety to allow things to return to normal. He's not going to be able to show his face anywhere without being recognized immediately.

And in the mean time, people can't get to work. Stores don't have customers, manufacturers can't manufacture their products. Boston's GDP is about $320-360 billion a year. And that's not including all the surrounding suburbs. A complete lockdown would cost a billion dollars a day. I don't exactly know what exactly "lockdown" actually means here, if it's just advisory or what. But a lot of transportation systems are shut down.

Otherwise I'm totally for posting scanner updates of the critical and game ending type in the thread


The problem with "critical and game ending" scanner information is that you don't know how to correctly identify it until the game is over.

Are we concerned that this kid has internet access, is reading metafilter threads to keep tabs on the police, but somehow too dumb to just tune into the online police scanners himself?

Because if it's stuff that's coming over the air, then the guy has as much access to it as he does this thread.

I think what the police don't want is people taking out their camera phones and posting tweets showing the locations of all the police cars in the area.

So yes, putting a city on lockdown and searching house to house is warranted, and I'll be shocked if very many people are upset about it. What they would be upset about is letting this kid escape so he can murder again.

It depends on how long. If he's not caught in a couple days people will start to get sick of it. The individual risk to any individual person is going to be very low, even if it might be kind of scary, the downsides of this "plan" are immense if it goes on for more then a day or two. (although it sounds like they know exactly where he is, but who really knows at this point)

There are lot of things we could do to make the world safer, but we don't, because they are annoying. Like putting limiters in every car that prevent them from going over 65MPH. Or requiring breathalyzers in all cars. Or banning fatty foods. Those things kill way more people then this guy ever will.

Effectively, you have alleged killers on the run with guns and bombs, and people trying to stop them from doing that. It's a warzone - civillians do not belong in a warzone.

It's not a "warzone" if there's only one guy.

They moved here in 2002 when we were at the height of Islamophobia? Seems strange.

You noticed they were white, right?

So anyway what beef do Chechens have against America? I thought that the USA was more or less on their side? Islamist terrorists really have an issue with biting the hand that feeds.

No one is on their side. The war is over and they lost, as far as I know. The US certainly didn't do anything to help them. The US and Russia aren't exactly enemies anymore either. How was America in any way "on their side" during the conflict?

Also, why is it any less likely for a Muslim Chechen to become a terrorist then a Muslim from the UAE or Morocco or something?

Anybody who thinks this won't have an impact on the upcoming immigration bill doesn't fully understand the current American right.

Ann Coulter is about as "current" as Monica's dress stains. And, I'm not sure if you noticed but I don't think Ann Coulter's position changed here. There are going to be hard-core xenophobes who oppose immigration reform. This attack doesn't change anything. It's not going to cause immigration reform supporters to change their mind, especially since these two were legal immigrants.
posted by delmoi at 8:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

markkraft: “Perhaps you should check out Tamerlan's YouTube, with all the videos of ‘end of the world’ themed radical Islam, and the favorites folder for terrorism.”

Okay, I don't want to engage this too much, but – things we're assuming so far:

1. That these two guys were clearly the ones who did the Boston Marathon bombing. "It seems likely..." Yeah, lots of things that seem likely turn out to be wrong.
2. That these two particular guys are the ones on the run. See previous note about likely stories.
3. That that is affirmatively and definitively a Youtube account belonging to one of them. See earlier notes about the literally hundreds of fake Twitter accounts created in their names over the past few hours.

In particular, #3 here seems very, very dubious to me.

I think we should heed the warnings of those who have urged caution and forbearance in speculating about motive. We know nothing. We will not know anything any time this morning. That is okay. All I want is for whatever guy was blowing things up last night to be in jail, and that seems like the best we can hope for at this moment.
posted by koeselitz at 9:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

This was asked upthread, maybe more than once, but I never saw an answer. Last night police in Watertown had a man in custody, face down on the pavement with his arms spread. Was that man at all related to the bombers?
posted by chemoboy at 9:00 AM on April 19, 2013

I do wonder where the father's head is at if he's talking about "all hell breaking loose" and some organization being out to get his son because he doesn't believe he did this.
posted by youandiandaflame at 9:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

CBS: FBI used State Department records to match names with photos.

I hate to second-guess the FBI/police (wait, no I don't...), but am I the only one who thinks that, if this is true, then releasing the suspects's photos was a big mistake? The timing makes it seem like they almost certainly were staying in the Boston area for the past couple days, and only started running and shooting at or throwing bombs at cops when their pictures were all over the press.
posted by muddgirl at 9:00 AM on April 19, 2013

Tony Soprano [over the phone]: It's a bad connection so I'm gonna talk fast! The guy you're looking for is an ex-commando! He killed sixteen Chechen rebels single-handed!

Paulie 'Walnuts' Gualtieri: Get the fuck outta here.

Tony Soprano: Yeah. Nice, huh? He was with the Interior Ministry. Guy's like a Russian green beret. He can not come back and tell this story. You understand?

Paulie 'Walnuts' Gualtieri: I hear you.

[hangs up]

Paulie 'Walnuts' Gualtieri: You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

Christopher Moltisanti: His house looked like shit.

Today we are all Paulie Walnuts -- 4/19 Nevar Forget
posted by gompa at 9:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [103 favorites]

I took a break from the news and now I feel like I woke up in an alternate dimension.
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [20 favorites]

These guys are literally Caucasians (ethnically from the Caucus mountain region) aren't they? (Not that it matters really.)
posted by saulgoodman at 9:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

chemoboy: seems like no.
posted by maryr at 9:01 AM on April 19, 2013

Was that man at all related to the bombers?

He was supposedly released, but there are reports that he may have been re-arrested, so... shruggity?
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on April 19, 2013

Those in the know don't speak. Those who speak don't know.
posted by dry white toast at 9:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

***IMPORTANT MESSAGE***

If the comment you are composing includes the word 'probably,' please do not post it.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [27 favorites]

gompa, you're a gentleman and a scholar.
posted by griphus at 9:02 AM on April 19, 2013

I took a break from the news and now I feel like I woke up in an alternate dimension.

Jeez, tell me about it. (So much for my Avenging Angels of Aaron Swartz theory I was working on when I went to bed last night.)
posted by scody at 9:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

And if they were US-born, moved to another country 10 years ago and did a similar thing there, we might be asking whether US entertainment violence or disdain for further gun-control regulation or latent racial tensions or something else about US culture had affected them. Wouldn't we?

Of course not. Here's how it works:

1. If they're from somewhere else and they do something awful here, then their foreignness is to blame.
2. If they're from here and they do something awful somewhere else, then they were radicalized by foreigners.
3. If they're (police/military) from here and they do something awful here, then they are rogue criminals.
4. If they're (civilians) from here and they so something awful here, then they are crazy.

The U.S. is never to blame. The policies, history, culture, and society of the (arguably) most powerful nation on earth have no bearing on how others perceive us and we are shocked, shocked by violent behaviors of when they happen to us (not when they happen to others though).
posted by headnsouth at 9:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [47 favorites]

Chechens I know are completely crushed. Let's hope the FBI gets to the remaining suspect before the Chechen refugee community in Boston does. Boston welcomed and protected Chechen asylum seekers like no other city. Those people will tear these kids to pieces for the harm they've done.

Oh, that makes it even more tragic in so many ways, especially if Boston switches like NYC switched after 9/11.
posted by corb at 9:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Regarding upthread discussion of whether searching police would "take notes" and return later if they happened across a grow room or DVD pirating shed -- if you have a grow room or DVD pirating shed and SWAT comes through without busting you, and you *don't* get rid of said room/shed, then you deserve to get busted later.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Maybe we should look at their Steam accounts to see what kind of games they play? Probably terrorist training games with codenames like COD?
posted by JJ86 at 9:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Those in the know don't speak. Those who speak don't know.

...sure.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:05 AM on April 19, 2013

***IMPORTANT MESSAGE***

If the comment you are composing includes the word 'probably,' please do not post it.

The endless loop contained in this comment kinda hurts my brain.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

"We see a dog, it is barking. It could be a K9 unit, we don't know. It is a dog."

Yes, but is it a Muslim dog?!

Well, I never saw it eat pork or drink alcohol, so yeah, probably.
posted by pernoctalian at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

These guys are literally Caucasians (ethnically from the Caucus mountain region) aren't they?

Here's something that will really blow your mind: Iran is farsi for Aryan.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

The Czech Republic is trending on Twitter. Sigh.

This is like when my wife gets Slovenia confused with Slovakia, but way less cute.
posted by dry white toast at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

"They're losers."

Apparently, their uncle is Donald Trump.
posted by drezdn at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"4/19 Nevar Forget"
posted by gompa

Thank god its 420 tomorrow.
posted by marienbad at 9:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Apparently, their uncle is Donald Trump.

Genghis Trump.
posted by Nomyte at 9:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The Czech Republic is trending on Twitter. Sigh.

WTF? Unless twitter has decided as a group to enjoy some tasty Kolaches.
posted by drezdn at 9:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

It think it's OK to say that public safety elements are preparing for a press conference (since that's an announced event).
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:07 AM on April 19, 2013

Social media is the new Zapruder.
posted by davebush at 9:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I am having so much trouble not reading "Rindge" as a typo.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Oh and if you wondering about right-wing reaction:

Arkansas Lawmaker Mocks Boston ‘Liberals,’ Says They Wish They Had Assault Rifles
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:08 AM on April 19, 2013

Dog has fled the area. Police reporting 'bomb-like' effects of smell in previous location. One officer bent double and horking.
posted by fleacircus at 9:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

You know what: this is nothing like 9/11. It doesn't really have anything to do with Chechnya or Islam. This is more like Columbine or Newtown. Its two incredibly fucked up and angry and lonely kids (or maybe one very fucked up kid and his impressionable younger brother) who were able to accumulate a ridiculous arsenal and acted out their personal demons in a completely incomprehenisble way. Yeah, he posted stuff about Islam on his youtube channel or whatever as he grasped for any straws of support he could get hold of. But this is not about that.
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 9:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [18 favorites]

It had nothing to with a liberal agenda, unless you see "don't want to see any more racist warmongering and hate crimes" as a liberal agenda.
posted by emjaybee at 8:47 AM on April 19 [13 favorites +] [!]

According to the Post article, the alleged assailants were Hispanic. Is "racist warmongering" even possible from the perspective of a liberal if both the victim and the assailant can qualify as being "brown people"?
posted by otto42 at 9:09 AM on April 19, 2013

From Nate Bell, R-AR, aka @NateBell4AR
"I wonder how many Boston liberals spent the night cowering in their homes wishing they had an AR-15 with a hi-capacity magazine? #2A"
posted by maryr at 9:09 AM on April 19, 2013

"Are we sure this account isn't a fake?"

Apparently, the account was created in August 2012, and YouTube thought it wise to delete the account that hosted the videos for the Terrorists folder since then.
posted by markkraft at 9:09 AM on April 19, 2013

Also, why is it any less likely for a Muslim Chechen to become a terrorist then a Muslim from the UAE or Morocco or something?

I've always gotten the impression that Chechnya -- like Bosnia -- was pretty thoroughly secularized. It would be like a Swede coming to the US to shoot a doctor he thought was performing abortions.
posted by Slothrup at 9:10 AM on April 19, 2013

From twitter:

@BoringPostcards: So basically, this week is what it would feel like to live in Gotham City.
posted by The Whelk at 9:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [48 favorites]

If the comment you are composing includes the word 'probably,' please do not post it.

A paradox!
posted by Jahaza at 9:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Here's something that will really blow your mind: Iran is farsi for Aryan.

I know--I've got a coworker who's ancestrally Aryan (though culturally Indian).

Ach! It's the Nazis again! (Sorry. That's a terrible, terrible joke.)
posted by saulgoodman at 9:11 AM on April 19, 2013

So I sleep in a bit just this one day and see what happens?

Somewhere, Christopher Nolan is surrounded by multiple televisions, chain smoking, furiously filling notebooks.
posted by HannoverFist at 9:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Also, the uncle who lives in Maryland Ruslan Tsarni is very heartfelt about this.

"Tsarni called his nephews "losers" and said his family had not seen them since December 2005. They lived near Boston and had been in the U.S. for about a decade.. Tsarni said vehemently that Chechnya had nothing to do with the attack. He said his nephews had struggled to settle themselves in the U.S. and ended up "thereby just hating everyone."

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/ruslan-tsarni-losers-interview-video-uncle-says-dzhozkar-tamerlan-tsarnaev-were-losers-on-nbc#ixzz2QvUTbwdX
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 9:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I really wish this thread wasn't so impossible to read at work. Is there anything I should know that I'm not getting from news sites?
posted by IvoShandor at 9:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

After all the hype about how social media helped catch them their capture really resulted from them robbing a 7-11.
posted by PHINC at 9:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

"I wonder how many Boston liberals spent the night cowering in their homes wishing they had an AR-15 with a hi-capacity magazine? #2A"

At no point in the last 12 hours have I thought that I was better qualified to handle this situation with violent force than the police.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [71 favorites]

Okay.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

I'm genuinely curious. Where did these guys get their guns? Cambridge has, even by Massachusetts standards, draconian gun laws.
posted by pentagoet at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013

for greg
posted by shakespeherian at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

"I wonder how many Boston liberals spent the night cowering in their homes wishing they had an AR-15 with a hi-capacity magazine? #2A"

I wonder how many Bostonians would have been accidentally shot, or shot by the police, if they were all carrying around AR-15's.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [38 favorites]

Watching the reporters interview the uncle was a bit like watching sharks in a feeding frenzy, other than the fact that sharks are a bit more compassionate.
posted by HuronBob at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Is there anything I should know that I'm not getting from news sites?

Yes: You are safe. You have nothing to fear.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

WTF? Unless twitter has decided as a group to enjoy some tasty Kolaches.

Twitter and I agree on something. I would LOVE some kolaches right now, I tell you what.
posted by louche mustachio at 9:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

ABC News ‏@ABC 1m
According to a friend and other evidence examined by @ABC News, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s twitter account appears to be @J_tsar
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:15 AM on April 19, 2013

this thread is making me woozy i think i need some Dramamine
posted by robbyrobs at 9:15 AM on April 19, 2013

A savvy military leader, a Muslim, and the founder of a dynasty. I wonder if this guy, disaffected and cut off (except from his brother), identified too much?

Then again, Attila is still a popular boy's name in Hungary.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Replies to tweet from @NateBell4AR are mostly along the lines of "@ashmont: @NateBell4AR And, I do mean this with ALL DUE RESPECT - go fuck yourself.
posted by maryr at 9:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Yes: You are safe. You have nothing to fear.

What is all this smart-assed crap? I was asking a serious question.
posted by IvoShandor at 9:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I've always gotten the impression that Chechnya -- like Bosnia -- was pretty thoroughly secularized. It would be like a Swede coming to the US to shoot a doctor he thought was performing abortions.

I've heard that some Chechens became more religious and even radicalized over the last 20 years. I don't know if that's true and, even if so, what relation it may have two these particular individuals.
posted by Area Man at 9:16 AM on April 19, 2013

Too late for a cool dog pic?
posted by Chrysostom at 9:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I wonder how many Boston liberals spent the night cowering in their homes wishing they had an AR-15 with a hi-capacity magazine?

To do what, precisely? "Cower in their homes," while holding a rifle?

Because wandering around the streets with an assault weapon probably wouldn't have been too smart.

Anyone who saw somone who looked like the suspects had been told to call the police, and explicitly not to engage them. Multiple times, by multiple authorities.

This guy is an irresponsible asshole, but I guess we already knew that. Still, he should be taken over the hurdles for it because the timing is unforgivable.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

greg, this dog was pretty cool in, like, 2009.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

An empty Boston looks like a movie set.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Those are very cool dogs everybody but let's not fill up the thread.
posted by cortex at 9:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Where did these guys get their guns? Cambridge has, even by Massachusetts standards, draconian gun laws.

They could have gotten their hands on the guns and grenades any number of ways. New Hampshire's less than an hour away and still has gun shows. Doesn't seem like these two were too concerned with the letter of the law.
posted by oinopaponton at 9:17 AM on April 19, 2013

So what about that reproter from NBC who said they had recieved military training overseas...
posted by Burgatron at 9:17 AM on April 19, 2013

What is all this smart-assed crap? I was asking a serious question.
Woah. I think it was a serious answer. We are not supposed to post specific scanner based infos.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

According to a friend and other evidence examined by @ABC News, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s twitter account appears to be @J_tsar

That seems kind of unlikely. There are lots of really innocuous tweets from April 15.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:17 AM on April 19, 2013

Too late for a cool dog pic?

I'm having the damn weirdest Bader Meinhoff thing with Spuds Mackenzie. This is the third time in a week that he's come up in my life. IT IS 2013 GO BACK TO 1989 WHERE YOU BELONG DOG.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

But the dogs where the only thing I understood.
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Huh, if that is his Twitter account -- um, I dunno. Just strange. On the day of the bombing, posts: "Ain't no love in the heart of the city, stay safe people"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:18 AM on April 19, 2013

Then again, Attila is still a popular boy's name in Hungary.

That's true; when I was a teenager, I had a tremendous crush on a cute boy from Transylvania named Attila who was as peace- and Belle & Sebastian-loving as a teenage crush in 1999 could have been.
posted by pineappleheart at 9:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Then again, Attila is still a popular boy's name in Hungary.

All right, all right, all right. I get it. The name Tamerlane is not destiny.

Damn English degree, still useless...
posted by wenestvedt at 9:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Mod note: Comment removed. Tense situation, people may be talking past each other, but please keep your cool.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:20 AM on April 19, 2013

Third page of this NYT article has vivid detail of last night's firefight.

Also this bit seems a little odd:

Buzzfeed on the older brother: He maintained a YouTube page that focused on Sunni Islam and included a playlist named "terrorist."

NYT: The older brother left a record on YouTube of his favorite clips, which included,,,testimonial from a young ethnic Russian man titled “How I accepted Islam and became a Shiite...”
posted by mediareport at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Maybe they just hate marathons.
posted by BeeDo at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Nate Bell can fuck the right hell off.
posted by edgeways at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

From twitter:

@BoringPostcards: So basically, this week is what it would feel like to live in Gotham City.

I've been re-watching Batman Beyond on Netflix the past couple of weeks and have wished several times that we had a good Detective on the case.
posted by zengargoyle at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2013

How could a guy with a cat this adorable be a mad bomber?
posted by desjardins at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

To do what, precisely? "Cower in their homes," while holding a rifle?

And that's a problem because ... ?

If you're going to own an assault rifle, I would think cowering in one's home with it is about the only thing you could do with it that's helpful.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Wandering Boston with an assault rifle will undoubtedly get you shot by police right now.
posted by rtha at 9:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"Bingo. I think all the speculation about their ethnicity is problematic - would we be having this discussion about wars in other places if they were Irish protestants from Belfast who moved here 10+ years ago?"

That's a bad example. Yours and similar comments are mistaken in the general, mistaken in the particular with regard to Chechen ethnicity and nationalism, and mistaken in the particular in that one of the brothers has explicitly expressed his nationalism. Furthermore, even if neither brother was born in Chechnya but rather in Kyrgyzstan (about which I'm skeptical, at the least in the case of the older), then I guarantee that their parents were born in Chechnya. Kyrgyzstan does not have a significant Chechen population.

And it's some serious American parochialism, or perhaps imperialism, to believe that moving to the US as a child and living here for ten years "makes you an American". The vast majority of the people around the world don't think like that, they retain their ethnic identities when they emigrate elsewhere, and those ethnic identities are intimately connected in the modern world to national identities, for many generations, in some cases notoriously perpetually. Not all immigrants "assimilate" and not all immigrants want to assimilate and it's a particular kind of American arrogance to presume that it's inevitable.

Furthermore, Chechens are a special case (but far from unique) because they've just gone through a generation of rebellion and crushing defeat that corresponds to a diaspora in conjunction with a redirection of nationalist striving into the available shared Islamic cause where for eleven years there's been increasing and intense anti-americanism. Chechens have fought in Afghanistan and Iraq and now have a long association with Al Qaeda. The US was tepidly friendly to Chechen independence during the 90s, when we solidly had the dissolute Russia's nominal friendship and had nothing to fear from them in any event. But after 9/11 and concomitant with Putin's savage assault on Chechnya, the US found itself in the position of a) not being comfortable supporting even tepidly a revoluationary Islamic republic; and b) needed Russia to not complicate matters in our prosecution of two wars. And Putin well knew this and he basically told us that part of his price was that we would support him in his similar campaign against Islamic terrorists. And we have. In words. And in withdrawing that tepid support for Chechnya; which really had only amounted to sort of saying, hey, Russia, maybe you should treat those guys a little better? Which we shut up about.

All this means that, yeah, the US fell into the "enemy" column for a large portion of those Chechens most invested in their nationalist struggle that was now, finally, in earnest also becoming a religious struggle. Because the nationalist struggle didn't go very well. Which bears on the matter of young Chechen boys growing up in a strange American culture while struggling to understand their own identity.

A people that has such a history — a history of, for example, Stalin relocating all of them out of Chechnya in one of his little ethnogeographical experiments — with lots of oppression and then a little autonomy, followed by corruption and disaster and then utter, terrifying, apocalyptic humiliating defeat ... well, a people like that tends to nurse their dreams and their resentments. And they build these things into their identity and they mold their children in these forms.

Now, these particular Chechens may be the exception to these norms. They may not be strongly nationalistic and resentful and ambitious; and they may not share their generation's renewed religious fervor; and they may have, you know, assimilated. Fallen in love with the American Dream because there's fifty-two different kinds of toothpaste available along the supermarket aisle, because surely nothing could be more wonderful than that! But given that they're writing about Chechnyan independence and quoting Al Qaeda-inflected religious views and, oh yeah, acting like terrorists, then I think the burden of proof is on those who claim that this surely is nothing any different than any other two angry American post-adolescent mass murderers.

And the tragedy is that if the impetus for these contortions is to somehow head off at the pass the thundering herd of American xenophobic racism, well, I'm sorry to report that there's no diverting that herd when blood has been spilled and in any case, you're not going to accomplish it on MetaFilter.

Otherwise, welcome to the world, it's a very big place, and ethnic nationalism is, you know, a thing.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [79 favorites]

Apparently there is some sort of military personel present now, in addition to police? Any details on that?
posted by kiltedtaco at 9:22 AM on April 19, 2013

That's true; when I was a teenager, I had a tremendous crush on a cute boy from Transylvania named Attila

Just imagine if you'd hooked up: Hun-ey, I'm home.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

If you're going to own an assault rifle, I would think cowering in one's home with it is about the only thing you could do with it that's helpful.

I use mine as a channel changer.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

would we be having this discussion about wars in other places if they were Irish protestants from Belfast who moved here 10+ years ago?

Would we be having a discussion on the impact of an NI childhood on Prods who then bombed one of the most Irish/Catholic cities in the US? Well, I don't know about you, but for me of course.
posted by jaduncan at 9:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

How could a guy with a cat this adorable be a mad bomber?

Ask Richelieu.
posted by Sphinx at 9:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Just imagine if you'd hooked up: Hun-ey, I'm home.

Oh, I think I did enough imagining back then to cover me for the next few decades.
posted by pineappleheart at 9:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Where did they get their guns? Lots of places, but very likely up north.

Some years ago we stopped on a drive from Boston up the the Maine outlets. We wandered around a big, two story outdoors store -- the Kittery Trading Post, maybe. Up on the second floor I saw a clerk selling a handgun to a squinting old duffer whose vision was so bad that the clerk had to offer the guy his own glasses to fill out the form. But the gun was right there on the counter, presumably to take home that same day. *gulp*
posted by wenestvedt at 9:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

So what about that reproter from NBC who said they had recieved military training overseas...

About as creditable as Blitzer saying "... was most definitely wearing a suicide vest, or something..." Yeah Wolf, that about covers all bases. God damn but are they spinning trying to find something new to say.

A billion words written and spoken in the last <12 hours just to cover something that could fit in a concise paragraph.
posted by edgeways at 9:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I live about 3/4 of a mile away from where all the cops are hanging out. I woke up at 5:30 to my son (on vacation) going to sleep but mentioning "They got the MIT shooter at the 7-11 up the street!" Then I got a text from work telling me not to show up, and then a text from my town to say "everyone stay inside, this may be the marathon suspect, stay clear of the area, etc, and the Town is closed today." So I watched TV from then until 9:30AM, felt all tweaked and agitated... then I realized, "I have the day off of work, what am I doing getting all agitated and watching TV in the morning?" and so I went back to bed, to the white noise of nonstop helicopters.

Since nothing still seems to be happening, I may just take another nap.

Oh yeah, and seeing the streets devoid of any sort of traffic: eerie.
posted by not_on_display at 9:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

At risk of Godwinning the thread, you know who loved German Shepherds?
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

NBC now reporting that the younger brother was a naturalized American citizen (as in, yes, he was an immigrant, but had obtained citizenship).

NBC also stupidly going on about how the older brother is now known to have traveled to Russia last year (as if this were some sort of suspicious thing when THEY ARE FROM RUSSIA AND THEIR FATHER LIVES THERE).
posted by BlueJae at 9:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

A savvy military leader, a Muslim, and the founder of a dynasty. I wonder if this guy, disaffected and cut off (except from his brother), identified too much?

My name is Frank and I could barely give a rat's ass about Merovingian or Carolingian kings. I mean, sure, fuck the Romans, but beyond that...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

From Nate Bell, R-AR, aka @NateBell4AR
"I wonder how many Boston liberals spent the night cowering in their homes wishing they had an AR-15 with a hi-capacity magazine? #2A"

Yeah, a city in a state of panic, twitching at every possible false alarm, and all armed to the teeth with rifles that allow them to fire off dozens of bullets, each capable of piercing multiple walls before losing lethal capacity, in seconds. If that doesn't scream "security" to you you obviously hate freedom.
posted by yoink at 9:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [27 favorites]

And that's a problem because ... ?

Because the Gentleman from Arkansas was mocking liberal Bostonians for "cowering" unarmed in their homes.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Alex Wagner, MSNBC: "UMass Amherst is being evacuated."

Sigh. There's a big difference between Amherst and Dartmouth (Which is being evacuated.)
posted by wensink at 9:25 AM on April 19, 2013

Okay, so just so we're clear, nothing is actually happening right now, right?

I mean we're talking about the guy's family and animals, so this is basically what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator?
posted by dry white toast at 9:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [24 favorites]

Regarding the military training thing -- they were saying it a lot this morning with no attribution, but this just popped up:

NBC Nightly News ‏@nbcnightlynews 55s
Bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev traveled to Sheremetyevo, Russia via JFK airport last year; out of the country for 6 months -@Jonathan4ny

However, as noted above, going to Russia =/= "military training"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:26 AM on April 19, 2013

MetaFilter: What would happen if MetaFilter were stuck in an elevator?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

The thought of arming the populace with AR-15s in this scenario brings up imagery of post-scarecrow gotham.
posted by MysticMCJ at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

so this is basically what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator?

No what would happen is metafilter would use their kindle to find the first available thread to call the outside world for help because they've been stuck for hours....

(seriously, anyone have the link to that thread handy? It's a nice one.)
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

DD's or Dunks in my experience.

I call it "The Funkin'" or "Funkin's", but that's probably just me.
posted by the painkiller at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013

would we be having this discussion about wars in other places if they were Irish protestants from Belfast who moved here 10+ years ago?"

Jesus God yes. Absolutely, without a doubt, the media would be banging on about the history of The Troubles. Doubly, triply so because the bombing was in oh so Catholic Boston. People seek any available narrative to contextualise the shocking.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

His twitter account mentions liking meth.
posted by empath at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013

NBC also stupidly going on about how the older brother is now known to have traveled to Russia last year (as if this were some sort of suspicious thing when THEY ARE FROM RUSSIA AND THEIR FATHER LIVES THERE).

It's certainly relevant, and is a lead worth pursuing. Who did he meet with? Where else did he go while he was out of the US?
posted by BobbyVan at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev traveled to Sheremetyevo, Russia via JFK airport last year; out of the country for 6 months -@Jonathan4ny

That's not a place, that's the name of one of the three airports in Moscow.
posted by griphus at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

If you're bored you can watch A Live spacewalk around the ISS.
posted by zengargoyle at 9:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Anyone else hear the interview with that highschool buddy of Dzhokhar's on NPR this AM? Just imagine your feelings if one of your close highschool friends--a guy you thought of as salt of the earth, happy, friendly, utterly well-intentioned--suddenly showed up on TV as a terrorist at the center of a huge manhunt. It bends your brain a little just thinking about it.
posted by yoink at 9:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

MetaFilter: What would happen if MetaFilter were stuck in an elevator?

I imagine the oxygen would disappear very quickly.
posted by terrapin at 9:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Nate Bell can....

Not disagreeing but maybe bringing people's shitty comments into this thread from Twitter so we can collectively hate them isn't the best use of hyperlinking capabilities?
posted by jessamyn at 9:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

I mean we're talking about the guy's family and animals, so this is basically what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator?

This is starting to look like a bottle episode.
posted by chemoboy at 9:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

so this is basically what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator

Isn't Metafilter generally what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator?
posted by yoink at 9:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

If one of us turns out to be the devil I will be very upset.
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

At risk of Godwinning the thread, you know who loved German Shepherds?

Max von Stephanitz?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Isn't Metafilter generally what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator?

YM Metatalk. HTH.
posted by dersins at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013

This is starting to look like a bottle episode.

Yeah, this RV is just sittin' in the desert.
posted by Beardman at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013

...but not that surprised, really.
posted by Skorgu at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013

His twitter account mentions liking meth.

Do we know if any of the twitter accounts are definitely genuine at this point?
posted by yoink at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Roland - the kindle elevator thread, the meTa.
posted by rtha at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

so this is basically what would happen if Metafilter were stuck in an elevator
I have no idea how these people got their servers wedged into the elevator, or why.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"I respect this country. I love this country. This country that gives [a] chance to everybody else to be treated as a human being." -- Ruslan Tsarni, uncle of the two suspects, visibly shaken and giving his condolences to the families of the victims, when asked what he thinks of this country. And when asked what he would say to his younger nephew: "Turn yourself in."

That poor man. What a nightmare it must be to discover that your own nephews could do such a thing.
posted by orange swan at 9:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [25 favorites]

Press conference starting on WBUR.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:33 AM on April 19, 2013

MetaFilter: What would happen if MetaFilter were stuck in an elevator?

If it were AskMeFi, the answer would be therapy.
posted by 445supermag at 9:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

And here we go: Senator Says Boston Bombing Should Be Factor in Immigration Debate
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

It doesn't really have anything to do with Chechnya or Islam.

I don't think we can say that either. I think it's too early to speculate on political motivation here. It's not unheard of for people to convert to violent and radical politics. Maybe they were just motivated to blow shit up. Maybe they were recent converts due to family connections or friendships. We don't really know yet.

Personally, I think the relationship between first and second-generation immigrants who adopt terrorist causes says a lot more about the nature of class, prejudice, and economics in the West than immigration.

Then again, Attila is still a popular boy's name in Hungary.

And I've heard variants on Gengis is popular in Turkish region, where he's seen more like a post-Roman George Washington.

Not to mention all the boys named George, Richard, and Douglas in the United States.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Governor says the stay indoors thing is a "request" for those of you who are concerned.
posted by bobobox at 9:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Look on the bright side everybody, ain't nobody got time for remembering Thatcher.
posted by Yowser at 9:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

If one of us turns out to be the devil I will be very upset.

I talk on my cell phone in movie theaters.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Alex Ross ‏@alexrossmusic
Theremin expert Jon Bernhardt has been at MIT's WMBR since 8am, under lockdown but DJing defiantly http://wmbr.mit.edu
posted by Omon Ra at 9:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Yeah.. between gun control and immigration reform it certainly did not take the Republicans long to start trying to make hay of the situation.
posted by edgeways at 9:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's weird to see people describing this as a whole city lockdown. They've established a pretty small perimeter, unless that's changed since last night.

And this is pretty much the definition of exigent circumstances. They're not going to be able to bust any potheads with grow ops because they searched for a terrorist.
posted by klangklangston at 9:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

And here we go: Senator Says Boston Bombing Should Be Factor in Immigration Debate

From the Senator in link: “While we don’t yet know the immigration status of people who have terrorized the communities in Massachusetts, when we find out it will help shed light on the weaknesses of our system.”

Yeah, dude, all these 9- and 16-year-old refugees we're letting in are a serious national security problem.

Won't someone please think of how we can better detain the children?
posted by griphus at 9:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

There will be a controlled explosion by police in Cambridge - Norfolk St.
posted by bobobox at 9:37 AM on April 19, 2013

They've established a pretty small perimeter, unless that's changed since last night.

It has.
posted by asnider at 9:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

So is the suspect holed up in a building now surrounded by cops? If so, is someone negotiating with him? If not, is it the case that they've basically lost him? Basically, what is actually going on right now?
posted by newdaddy at 9:38 AM on April 19, 2013

newdaddy, I don't think they've located him yet.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:38 AM on April 19, 2013

Sen Grassley : “How can individuals evade authorities and plan such attacks on our soil? How can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the U.S.?

on a 9 yr old? "hey kid, ever owned a water-pistol?"
posted by marienbad at 9:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

newdaddy, where did you hear that he's in a building?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:39 AM on April 19, 2013

would we be having this discussion about wars in other places if they were Irish protestants from Belfast who moved here 10+ years ago?"

You're showing ignorance here. First, we're coming on 15 years since the Good Friday Agreement, without any significant issues.

Second, this is Boston. You can still, to this day, go into bars and see the collection boxes for Sinn Fein. They're now curiosities, but still, you can see them.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

griphus - ask Australia how. We detain asylum seeking children like's they are scary terrorists (I do not condone it).
posted by Burgatron at 9:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

They can take our lives, and they can take our transportation but they cannot take OUR FREEEUUUUUUUNKS
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

you know who loved German Shepherds?

Lee Duncan?
posted by drezdn at 9:39 AM on April 19, 2013

It's weird to see people describing this as a whole city lockdown. They've established a pretty small perimeter, unless that's changed since last night.

The area under police cordon is fairly small, but the area in which people are requested to stay indoors encompasses a million people.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Thank you, Ivan, for saving me a lot of work with your thoughtful comment. I will just add that there are Chechens in Kyrgyzstan - they are not a sizable minority, but they are sprinklings of them throughout Central Asia. Leftovers from Stalin's policies as well as newcomers fleeing the shit in their homeland and surrounding republics.

They have a reputation for being very hard men, with a traditional code of honor. Not the kind of people you want to get into conflict with or insult lightly. The fallout from the Russian invasions / occupations will not be over any time soon.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

It's weird to see people describing this as a whole city lockdown.

Well, with the businesses, schools, and government buildings closed, no mass transit, and a suggestion that cars on the road might be stopped, I call it a lockdown. :7)

*shrug* Of course, I am 30 miles away in Rhode Island, but I saw fewer cars with Mass. plates this morning, and my doctor's appointment today at Faulkner Hospital got cancelled because "the whole hospital is locked down," according to the call we got.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:40 AM on April 19, 2013

MsEld: I wonder if there is going to be a boom in child births in boston 9 months from now.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

on a 9 yr old? "hey kid, ever owned a water-pistol?"

No no no. You can't ask about guns.
posted by inigo2 at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Second, this is Boston. You can still, to this day, go into bars and see the collection boxes for Sinn Fein. They're now curiosities, but still, you can see them.

I kind of thought that might be part of their point. Not sure whether I agree with making such a point, but that's neither here nor there.
posted by hoyland at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2013

Boston Police Dept. ‏@Boston_Police
#CommunityAlert: Per Mass State Police: "60% of the search is done but there is still more work to be done."

How could 60% of the search be done? How could they have any idea what percentage done they were?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

MsEld: I wonder if there is going to be a boom in child births in boston 9 months from now.

How unsubtle a hint does she have to drop before you get the message?
posted by jaduncan at 9:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [38 favorites]

"It has."

Link?

"The area under police cordon is fairly small, but the area in which people are requested to stay indoors encompasses a million people."

A request to stay indoors isn't a lockdown.
posted by klangklangston at 9:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Second, this is Boston. You can still, to this day, go into bars and see the collection boxes for Sinn Fein. They're now curiosities, but still, you can see them

Ummm, I don't know how to explain this...
posted by fullerine at 9:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I work about two blocks from what seems to be the staging area, and listening to the guy on WBUR describe two parking lots I am extremely familiar with as being full of military and police is just... surreal.
posted by Adridne at 9:42 AM on April 19, 2013

How could 60% of the search be done? How could they have any idea what percentage done they were?

I think he was referring to houses in Watertown, specifically?
posted by mudpuppie at 9:43 AM on April 19, 2013

The officers doing the clearing periodically provide progress reports in the way of percentages, for their assigned area.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:43 AM on April 19, 2013

How many damn hints does she have to drop before you get the message?

Oh don't worry, I know better than to move to Boston.

Oh...... you mean..... omg.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

And because it's stuck in my head: Chechnya on a Dance Floor.
posted by klangklangston at 9:43 AM on April 19, 2013

How could 60% of the search be done? How could they have any idea what percentage done they were?

It's like a MS Windows progress bar: 60%...62%...37%...85%....58%...
posted by mikepop at 9:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Sen Grassley : “How can individuals evade authorities and plan such attacks on our soil? How can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the U.S.?

It's a lot of soil, Sentor. And you can't stop crazy unless you want to restrict all citizens to a solitary room and a cable hookup. Which won't work because Comcast will give shitty service while jacking up prices, leading to a bloody revolt. Don't fuck with my History Channel.

How could 60% of the search be done? How could they have any idea what percentage done they were?

"ok, we're gonna cordon off this area. Report back when your specific search area is clear. That way we can see what percentage is done and what areas we still have to search"

This is not rocket science.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:44 AM on April 19, 2013

How could 60% of the search be done? How could they have any idea what percentage done they were?

I assume they mean that they have cordoned off a likely area and are 60% done searching the buildings inside that area. As long as you think the suspect was inside the cordoned area, if no one tries to break through the cordon (and presumably can't sneak past it, which is a pretty big assumption but considering everybody's on high alert probably an okay one to make), you only have 40% of the homes remaining to search before you either a.) catch the suspect, or b.) declare the area cleared.
posted by WidgetAlley at 9:44 AM on April 19, 2013

A lot of people work in Cambridge, my father being one of them. They've shut down three T lines, or some of the stations around there anyway. But it basically cuts the T into several disconnected lines.

Those in Boston who were able to get to work are probably getting very little of it done.
posted by chemoboy at 9:45 AM on April 19, 2013

A request to stay indoors isn't a lockdown.

Jeez, why are you nitpicking this? The city has shut down and people are told to stay inside and public transport is halted. It is fair to call this a "lockdown."
posted by Unified Theory at 9:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Law enforcement officials believe more than 2 people may have been involved in planning the Marathon bombing - @PeteWilliamsNBC
posted by BobbyVan at 9:45 AM on April 19, 2013

How could 60% of the search be done? How could they have any idea what percentage done they were?

Well, if they had 20 blocks cordoned off and they've searched 12 of those blocks, then they'd be 60% done.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Why are they still saying not to answer the door unless it's a police officer? Why not, don't answer the door if it's that guy that everyone is looking for?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

griphus - ask Australia how. We detain asylum seeking children like's they are scary terrorists (I do not condone it).

Australia's tone of public discourse is set by Rupert Murdoch (who owns 70% of the press) and Lynton Crosbie (basically the Australian Karl Rove, a master of deniably-racist dog-whistles), not to mention a thriving right-wing talk-radio sector. Over the 11 or so years of the Howard government, and the handful of years of relatively spineless, illiberal Labor government, this has taken on a corrosive tone, manifesting itself in everything from idiots wearing the Australian flag as capes bullying brown-skinned people at music festivals in the name of patriotism to the popularly held idea that if we let any Muslims from a war zone in, some of them end up murdering us, and even if they don't, their sons may form gangs and rape our daughters once they hit puberty (because, as is unspoken, that's what those people do). In the eyes of a lot of the population, the safe/tolerable level of Muslim migrants is zero.

(I know because, sad to say, some of my relatives are amongst the bigots.)
posted by acb at 9:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

empath: This kid was actively seeking to murder more people.

We don't really even know that it's the same kid! It might be, and if he ends up dead, I'm sure he'll be declared as the bomber, but until we have a trial and see some real evidence, we know almost nothing.

What we know is what the police are claiming. The Boston police, however, are widely known for being a bunch of fucking idiots.
posted by Malor at 9:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Charles Pierce: As The Strange Morning Continues — And everything looks like a nail.
posted by homunculus at 9:46 AM on April 19, 2013

Sen Grassley : “How can individuals evade authorities and plan such attacks on our soil? How can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the U.S.?

And yet people still insist that this won't mess up immigration reform because "Republicans need the Hispanic vote!" Republicans also said they were going to stop being homophobic at the exact same time, yet the RNC voted unanimously to keep anti-equality measures as part of their platform. Unanimously! How is this any different?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

If J_tsar is the right twitter account, I feel sorry for anyone who tangentially tweeted with him, people are going youtube comment level crazy on anyone who interacted with him that hasn't locked their account.
posted by drezdn at 9:47 AM on April 19, 2013

Grozny On The Charles
posted by homunculus at 9:48 AM on April 19, 2013

My sister in law is in lockdown at MGH. My brother in law is at our house in Somerville because their place in Medford lost power. My husband and I are about to board a plane to get back to Boston. Hopefully we'll land to nothing but good news.
posted by lydhre at 9:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Personally, I think the relationship between first and second-generation immigrants who adopt terrorist causes says a lot more about the nature of class, prejudice, and economics in the West than immigration.

Yes, but to people like my dad, these two are just "a pair of Muslim idiots."

I don't have a lot of hope for the level of discourse re: this whole shit sandwich of tragedy. Metafilter, you're my only hope!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Why are they still saying not to answer the door unless it's a police officer? Why not, don't answer the door if it's that guy that everyone is looking for?

Because there are other people they may be looking for?
posted by edgeways at 9:48 AM on April 19, 2013

CNN is interviewing two of Dzhokhar's friends from high school, who were on the wrestling team with him. It's incredibly sad. They love this guy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:49 AM on April 19, 2013

I don't know why they'd need coffee delivered; there's a Dunkin' in the Arsenal Mall, and a Starbucks across the street at the Target.

Probably not staffed right now.

Au contraire, mon ami. Dunkies confirmed on Twitter that they asked the cops if they were allowed to stay open and got permission. The only thing open in Watertown right now is Dunk's. There's something perfect about that.
posted by Diablevert at 9:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

And to add: My dad is a relatively liberal dude who lives in a suburb of Boston. I don't even want to know what the Huffpost comments section is like.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:49 AM on April 19, 2013

*humms ‘Girl from Ipanema’*
posted by Smedleyman at 9:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

And here we go: Senator Says Boston Bombing Should Be Factor in Immigration Debate

On the one hand, I'd prefer that the bill go through because there are people suffering because they're undocumented.

On the other hand, tone-deaf Republicans blethering on and on about DREAD FOREIGNERS IN OUR MIDST and so on? ¡No me tire en ese zarzal!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The only think open in Watertown right now is Dunk's.

Perfect.
posted by chemoboy at 9:50 AM on April 19, 2013

Why are they still saying not to answer the door unless it's a police officer? Why not, don't answer the door if it's that guy that everyone is looking for?

If the guy they're looking for takes a hostage and makes said hostage go up to your door at gunpoint...
posted by headspace at 9:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh yeah, and seeing the streets devoid of any sort of traffic: eerie.

Eerie Photos Of Boston Looking Like A Ghost Town.
posted by ericb at 9:51 AM on April 19, 2013

I would imagine you wouldn't answer the door because we don't know for sure that POI#2 doesn't have other accomplices.

I haven't been able to catch up, but were there retractions and/or apologies for outing Tripathi?
posted by CancerMan at 9:51 AM on April 19, 2013

Timeline of the hunt of the marathon attack suspects (Boston Globe)
posted by seemoreglass at 9:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Man, I'm having a hard time reconciling everyone's cheerful personal accounts of Djohar and this current manhunt. It doesn't make sense to me.
posted by cloeburner at 9:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Wow, I'm on the west coast, and was following this until late last night. The last thing I expected was to wake up to this. When I went to sleep, people thought the suspect was the missing Brown kid. (I bet his family is freaked out.) Wow.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

For those of us who spent our youth growing up in Belfast in the '60s and '70s when random bombings were part of daily life, we might offer a different perspective on this crazyness.
posted by marvin at 9:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

>> According to a friend and other evidence examined by @ABC News, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s twitter account appears to be @J_tsar

That seems kind of unlikely. There are lots of really innocuous tweets from April 15.

Seems much more likely when you read through his tweets, and see some of the pictures. There are a few tweets that seem likely to be used (cherry-picked) by the media to steer the conversation:

a decade in america already, i want out

Brothers at the mosque either think I'm a convert or that I'm from Algeria or Syria, just the other day a guy asked me how I came to Islam

I meet the most amazing people, spent the day with this Jamaican Muslim convert who shared his whole story with me, my religion is the truth

Буду погибать мaлодым
posted by trueluk at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2013

Au contraire, mon ami. Dunkies confirmed on Twitter that they asked the cops if they were allowed to stay open and got permission. The only think open in Watertown right now is Dunk's. There's something perfect about that.

After the cops exfiltrated me from my stabby post-psychotic-break ex-girlfriend's basement, they dropped me off at a nearby Krispy Kreme. I got the impression it was their idea of a sanctuary.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

x
posted by marvin at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh, ferchrissakes.
posted by MissySedai at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Scanner just said that a woman texted her mother that she's being held by a man with a gun. (Could be nothing.)
posted by mudpuppie at 9:54 AM on April 19, 2013

I was just about to turn off the scanner when "Woman texting her mother that she is being held by a man with a gun."
posted by chemoboy at 9:55 AM on April 19, 2013

Family Research Council blames “sexual liberalism” for Boston, Newtown
posted by zombieflanders at 9:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

you may want to listen to the scanner about now, just to get a sense of the pace of the operation, if you're feeling itchy. Everyone is working methodically and responding quickly to things that happen, etc.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:55 AM on April 19, 2013

Personally, I think the relationship between first and second-generation immigrants who adopt terrorist causes says a lot more about the nature of class, prejudice, and economics in the West than immigration.

Yes, but to people like my dad, these two are just "a pair of Muslim idiots."

I don't have a lot of hope for the level of discourse re: this whole shit sandwich of tragedy. Metafilter, you're my only hope!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:48 AM on April 19 [+] [!]


It's because they're Muslims!

No, it's because the US is bad!

You guys are two sides of the same political coin.
posted by rr at 9:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Tweet from Adam Sandler: "Boston is probably the only major city that if you fuck with them, they will shut down the whole city ... stop everything ... and find you."
posted by ericb at 9:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [24 favorites]

Just heard a friend of mine's husband was getting on a plane this morning to go back to Boston for his grandmother's funeral. God knows what he's going to be getting into today.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:56 AM on April 19, 2013

Family Research Council blames “sexual liberalism” for Boston, Newtown

Damn those sexually liberal Muslims, with their Islamic gay marriages...
posted by acb at 9:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Oh, the Black Hawk helicopters are here.
posted by ericb at 9:56 AM on April 19, 2013

What is the working scanner feed? The one at Broadcastify says: "Boston area law enforcement feeds are temporarily offline to protect law enforcement resources and their efforts during the manhunt underway in the Boston Metro area."
posted by enn at 9:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

http://www.shouldilivetweetthescanner.info/
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ma-rt-9-window-cam
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

So what's up with the military helicopters? Has martial law been declared?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Man, I'm having a hard time reconciling everyone's cheerful personal accounts of Djohar and this current manhunt.

I've wondered for a while now (particularly after seeing that photo of him running from the blast) if he didn't really realize what was in the backpack, just did as his brother asked, or perhaps thought it would just be some smoke and not much carnage.

I mean, probably not, but I agree that it's hard to reconcile the two.
posted by anastasiav at 9:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Thanks snuffleupagus.
posted by enn at 9:58 AM on April 19, 2013

maybe the black helicopters were always there...
posted by Burgatron at 9:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

No, there is a potential need for quick deployment of EOD teams. As a general statement.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Tweet from Adam Sandler...

Not that it really matters, but that's not Adam Sandler, thats a fake account.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

So what's up with the military helicopters? Has martial law been declared?

they're scanning rooftops.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2013

trueluk: that last line, passed through a google translation:

Буду погибать мaлодым -- "I will die malodym"

_{I know nothing about Russian, Chechneyan, Dagestani, etc. Any thoughts on what "malodym" means?}
posted by wormwood23 at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2013

I heard on Boston NPR that Logan is still flying, but all the airlines have waived change fees.

And if that doesn't get your attention, helicopters circling overhead sure won't.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Evidently their mother stole $1600 worth of clothes in Natick last year.

From Lord & Taylor. (via Business Insider, which has published mum's address.)
posted by wensink at 9:59 AM on April 19, 2013

I'm on a graveyard shift at work, been glued to screens following this for nearly 11 hours. I'm going a bit batty.

Please some one update about the text mother held by gun story...
posted by Burgatron at 10:00 AM on April 19, 2013

"Jeez, why are you nitpicking this? The city has shut down and people are told to stay inside and public transport is halted. It is fair to call this a "lockdown.""

Because people are freaking out about civil liberties in a way that I think is overblown and unhelpful. And describing it as a "lockdown" of the whole city plays into that, instead of calling it a lockdown of the neighborhood while the search continues.
posted by klangklangston at 10:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

National Guard Continues Support Operations in Boston
posted by BobbyVan at 10:00 AM on April 19, 2013

You guys are two sides of the same political coin.

I don't think saying that these guys were probably motivated by a mix of feelings of personal alienation and a bunch of other shit (including religious zealotry) is the same as saying that the US is "bad." Nor is it "the other side" of saying that these two guys are just a pair of typical Muslims.

False equivalency brigade, buzz off.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Буду погибать мaлодым -- "I will die malodym"

"I will die young."
posted by griphus at 10:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

So what's up with the military helicopters? Has martial law been declared?

Who doesn't love marshmellows?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

For those of us who spent our youth growing up in Belfast in the '60s and '70s when random bombings were part of daily life, we might [offer] a different perspective on this crazyness.

Of all the perspectives I'd like to be irrelevant to my life, I'd like yours to be most irrelevant.

I don't know what they do if they don't find this kid today. Watching last night, it made sense at first: The chase had been over for an hour or two, they had cordoned off a chunk of one town and advising the people nearby --- close enough to walk to in that hour or two --- to keep in. By now, if the kid's not bleeding to death in a hedge somewhere he could be anywhere. I don't think they can keep us in here for ever. In an hour or two the natives are going to start to get restless.
posted by Diablevert at 10:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

they're scanning rooftops.

I thought the military wasn't supposed to be doing police work. Just curious, given how this has escalated.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Please some one update about the text mother held by gun story...

They haven't said anything else except that it came in via a 911 call. Right now they're checking a rooftop at (undisclosed address).
posted by mudpuppie at 10:01 AM on April 19, 2013

Thanks, griphus.
posted by wormwood23 at 10:01 AM on April 19, 2013

I thought the military wasn't supposed to be doing police work. Just curious, given how this has escalated.

They can assist, if requested by civil authorities.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

There was a mistaken report earlier about "military helicopters" that turned out to belong to the FBI. Cite via MyFoxBoston (seen on Reddit update thread).
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I thought the military wasn't supposed to be doing police work

Maybe there is the distinction between the MA national guard and the regular army.
posted by shothotbot at 10:02 AM on April 19, 2013

From a friend's FB post:

Things we'll do to keep people safe: Lock down an entire city for hours.

Things we won't do: A 5 min background check before you buy a gun.

posted by ericb at 10:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [103 favorites]

We've read about military assets being borrowed by LEOs before. In the death valley hikers thread, I think?
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:02 AM on April 19, 2013

It's like the 5-star Wanted Level in GTAIV, except it's actually happening.
posted by killdevil at 10:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [28 favorites]

Oh, ferchrissakes.

hmmnnnfff...... the media is just falling all over itself on this one. I thought the day before yesterday was bad, but today is dropping that bar down way below ground.
posted by lampshade at 10:03 AM on April 19, 2013

Swat team surrounding house where hostage is believed to be.

I thought the military wasn't supposed to be doing police work. Just curious, given how this has escalated.

I think they're state police helicopters.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:03 AM on April 19, 2013

Timeline of the hunt of the marathon attack suspects (Boston Globe)

OK, I have to say, now I feel a little bit vindicated. That 7-Eleven is exactly where my (hastily Google Mapped) map was centered when I linked it in the thread last night. Maybe my comment was useful after all!
posted by limeonaire at 10:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Evidently their mother stole $1600 worth of clothes in Natick last year.

From Lord & Taylor. (via Business Insider, which has published mum's address.)

I'm trying to not get wrapped up in the sordid details of all this craziness and remember that people have died and had their legs blown off, but good lord, this whole story is so fucking weird.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

I think they're state police helicopters.

That makes more sense, thanks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:04 AM on April 19, 2013

This one is zebras.
posted by Miko at 10:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Maybe there is the distinction between the MA national guard and the regular army.

There is. The governor can set fairly arbitrary tasking for the national guard, as despite the name it belongs to the state.
posted by jaduncan at 10:04 AM on April 19, 2013

I heard on Boston NPR that Logan is still flying, but all the airlines have waived change fees. And if that doesn't get your attention, helicopters circling overhead sure won't.

I'm actually in the middle of trying to refigure a conference schedule because two of the talks are by people who can't get to Logan. Of course, it's also been snowing here, so they're probably not going to be the only people with travel issues.
posted by hoyland at 10:04 AM on April 19, 2013

Re: helicopters, I would imagine that, with the possible threat of further bombings due to this guy running around, they want as many eyes in the sky as possible, along with mobile EOD teams and possibly even aerial fire suppression (big conflagrations in residential neighborhoods, like the kind that might result from bombings, can spread quickly when the conditions are right, and everyone is in their home at the moment, so evacuations due to widespread fire could provide cover for the suspect to escape in.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:04 AM on April 19, 2013

I thought the military wasn't supposed to be doing police work. Just curious, given how this has escalated.

Posse Comitatus. National Guard (and Coast Guard) can help out.
posted by Dr.Enormous at 10:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

‏@mattomic
"I heard it on CNN!" CNN: "I heard it on Reddit!" Reddit: "Police scanner!" Police: "We were mentioning a tweet!" Twitter: "I'M 14 LOL SWAG"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [48 favorites]

"It has."

Link?

The FPP already covers this. Reading some of your other comments, I guess "lockdown" is maybe the wrong word. It's not like marshal law has been declared, but the entire city is essentially shutdown.
posted by asnider at 10:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The Onion: Jesus, This Week.
posted by ericb at 10:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

"I will die young."

I'm sure I said that more than once, when I was young. But like Bob Dylan said, I was so much older then.
posted by philip-random at 10:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

According to the wiki on the Posse Comitatus Act (an Act, let me just say, which is RIPE for a porno rip-off title) the prohibition on the military enforcing state law does not apply to the state national guard or the national guard of a neighboring state if invited by the governor.
posted by shothotbot at 10:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The governor can set fairly arbitrary tasking for the national guard, as despite the name it belongs to the state.

For the gentleman from Arkansas, the people of Massachusetts DO have assault rifles. Luckily for them they are in the hand of their well organized and constitutionally necessary militia.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [33 favorites]

Remember all the xenophobia, hatred and jingoism that happened after 9/11? Yeah, it's coming back. Maybe not as badly or as acutely, but it's coming back. Like clockwork.

hey cool i'm gonna step on over to brazil maybe for a while

you guys want anything
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 10:09 AM on April 19, 2013

So anyway what beef do Chechens have against America?

What beef did these two Chechens have?

For real. Exactly what we thought would happen if the perpetrators weren't reg'lar white guys is happening.

Yes. If it were white Tea Party types, a lot more people would be making hay while the sun was shining.
posted by Tanizaki at 10:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think relevant Federal LEOs can just straight out borrow military assets if the military feels like helping out, too. Maybe not whole units, before it gets questionable, but a few helicopters or bomb disposal teams. This isn't just a criminal investigation, its a massive public safety operation.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:09 AM on April 19, 2013

Woman believed to be hostage is "standing at the door."

(This is suspenseful.)
posted by mudpuppie at 10:10 AM on April 19, 2013

Coast Guard

USCG isn't subject to Posse Comitatus because they have a primary law enforcement role, just like the FBI does.

This is true even in time of war when the USCG becomes a department of the US Navy, and the USCG provides law enforcement detachments (LEDETS) to the US Navy when the US Navy is acting in a border role.
posted by eriko at 10:10 AM on April 19, 2013

Timeline of the hunt of the marathon attack suspects (Boston Globe)

Looks like the Globe doesn't know that Norfolk St., Cambridge is in Cambridge; they've got it marked near Kenmore Sq.
posted by Mapes at 10:10 AM on April 19, 2013

Yes. If it were white Tea Party types, a lot more people would be making hay while the sun was shining.

There might be generalizations about "Tea Party types" but not all white people.
posted by sweetkid at 10:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

Woman believed to be hostage is "standing at the door."
(This is suspenseful.)

I may be reading this wrong but it looks like you're enjoying this.

I thought we were going to stop with the police scanner updates?
posted by headnsouth at 10:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Yes. If it were white Tea Party types, a lot more people would be making hay while the sun was shining.

Like everyone did every time there has been a terrorist attack in the US by a white male right wing Christian?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

If you want suspenseful real time updates, try this twitter stream.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

And yet people still insist that this won't mess up immigration reform because "Republicans need the Hispanic vote!" Republicans also said they were going to stop being homophobic at the exact same time, yet the RNC voted unanimously to keep anti-equality measures as part of their platform. Unanimously! How is this any different?

No, people are insisting progressives stop being whiny defeatists. Did you ponder the irony of using gay marriage as your analogy issue which the GOP has been "messing up" with their backwards hate-mongering?

How about progressives grow a pair, defend their values in public, and assume their fellow citizens are adults who can be convinced to share progressive values.

Ann Coulter and Republican Troll Senator said moron troll things. Time to raise the white flag of defeat and abandon our values!!
posted by crayz at 10:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

I would like to say any mefi moderator dealing with this thread will never pay for a drink around me again.
posted by The Whelk at 10:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [79 favorites]

klangklangston: “Because people are freaking out about civil liberties in a way that I think is overblown and unhelpful. And describing it as a 'lockdown' of the whole city plays into that, instead of calling it a lockdown of the neighborhood while the search continues.”

I agree with this; and while I expressed some concern about civil liberties in my earlier comment here, I want to say that I really don't know what's happening. I have some biases; good friends of mine are Occupy Boston people, and their experience with the BPD hasn't always been stellar. Also, I have to say that I think part of my reaction has to do with frustration and annoyance and bitterness and worry that this was even happening at all, and a wish that it wasn't, in talking to my friends locked in their homes and apartments in Boston and left to worry for who knows how long.

I actually feel like a nuanced view is called for in this situation. I believe wholeheartedly that the authorities are doing everything they can to catch this dangerous guy, and I understand why they've done everything they've done. I also think that, in the heat of the moment, it's easy for someone with great intentions to go a little too far. What I have in mind here is that I'm sure a nonzero number of innocent bystanders have had to find themselves on the wrong end of a gun until they could be cleared over the past 12 hours. Was that done correctly? Did someone get overanxious and act in a way that wasn't called for, by reason or by law? That's something we'll be sorting out in the days to come, and I'm sure we will get a good picture then of exactly what has happened in the past day.

Until then, however, if it even needs to be said, the authorities are absolutely on our side, a wholesale breach of civil liberties has certainly not occurred, and most importantly I think it's awesome that everybody is complying with what the Boston Police (National Guard, etc) are asking of them.

The sooner this is over, the better.
posted by koeselitz at 10:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

This seems to be the relevant passage in MA state law that authorizes the National Guard.

And I don't know that I'd call it martial law either. It sort of quacks like that duck, but it's only been one morning so far, and no one's talking about suspending habeas corpus. More like a state of emergency, as during Katrina.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:14 AM on April 19, 2013

RE: J_tsar twitter... Lives in Cambridge, tweets about owning a Honda...
posted by drezdn at 10:14 AM on April 19, 2013

Yes. If it were white Tea Party types, a lot more people would be making hay while the sun was shining.

Sure, but this is also a really great way to deflect the fact that attitudes have been racist and shitty (detaining some random Saudi dude in the hospital, describing the suspect as dark-skinned when he looks super white to me).

So now I know that the white Tea party types didn't blow up a bunch of people on Marathon Monday, but I do know that a lot of people are still racist dicks who like to make false equivalencies and throw back patting parties in the aftermath of a tragedy.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Is there a no scanner update rule? I thought it was no addresses.

In any case, I'm not "enjoying it." I'm just having a hard time not listening.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:15 AM on April 19, 2013

Damnit, The Whelk, we need them to keep moderating, not all hop on a plane to New York.
posted by Jahaza at 10:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I thought the military wasn't supposed to be doing police work.

Clearly you haven't watched the end of The Blues Brothers enough times.
posted by edgeways at 10:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Wasn't there a Lords and Taylor connection to the bombing... Like as a source of video footage?
posted by drezdn at 10:15 AM on April 19, 2013

I think it's awesome that everybody is complying with what the Boston Police (National Guard, etc) are asking of them.

People in Boston are pretty obedient.
posted by sweetkid at 10:16 AM on April 19, 2013

The Boston Police have requested that no scanner chatter be disseminated on various media.
posted by cooker girl at 10:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

RE: J_tsar twitter... Lives in Cambridge, tweets about owning a Honda...

BREAKING: Suspect plays workout tapes like Fonda.
posted by dry white toast at 10:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Mod note: Please maybe be mindful about the scanner thing. We're not making a rule but we'd like to not HAVE to make one
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Onion: Internet Comes Up With 8.5 Million Leads
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

There are some pretty nasty tweets circulating about the woman who appears in the boxing photos with the dead bomber. I hope she is safe and has people around her in the coming days.
posted by jamesonandwater at 10:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

FWIW disseminating scanner traffic is technically a violation of the Communications Act. Not that they've ever enforced it, but...
posted by smoothvirus at 10:19 AM on April 19, 2013

Re: scanners I think if you want to listen, listen. They have other channels for information they want to be truly secure. Nevertheless the authorities have requested that specific information not be relayed. Personally, I feel it is proper to comply.

Regarding military and police cooperation, this document is old, but describes how the Army Technical Escort Unit participates in events like Super Bowl so as to be able to respond to incidents. Some soliders who do EOD provide brief remarks.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:19 AM on April 19, 2013

People in Boston are pretty obedient.

That's a weird thing to say. People in Boston are pretty scared.
posted by oinopaponton at 10:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

People in Boston are pretty obedient.

That's a weird thing to say. People in Boston are pretty scared.

HAMBURGER
posted by axiom at 10:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

People in Boston are pretty obedient.

That's a weird thing to say. People in Boston are pretty scared.

Sorry, that came out wrong. But there's generally a lot of rule following in Boston that I think helps in situations like this. Community oriented, good minded stuff. That's what I meant. Came out wrong.
posted by sweetkid at 10:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Looking at the front page of CNN.com at the moment ("WHERE IS HE? MANHUNT FOR SECOND SUSPECT") reminds me of something out of Philip K. Dick.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Yeah, sweetkid, thanks for clarifying. That sounded disdainful to my mind's ear, and I'm glad it wasn't intended that way.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

But now, when smart phones and social media are common currency, we have entered a new era. One in which the flow of information has reached epic and epidemic proportions. News anchors must say something to fill the time on air. Producers cannot switch to other stories and come back when news has changed because fresh news is measured in fractions of a minute, and must compete with large social media platforms like Twitter whose reputations are not at stake if their content is incorrect.

Switching to other stories and coming back when news has changed is exactly what my local NPR station has been consistently doing.
posted by Flunkie at 10:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

the new yorker has some complete sentences about Boston's "lockdown".
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

he looks super white to me

We now know the ethnic background of the bombers.* We don't need anymore of this eyeball analysis.

* Well except for those who still question whether these are actually the guys (wtf!?)
posted by 0 at 10:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

There can no longer be peaceful coexistence between combat sports and endurance sports.
posted by Free word order! at 10:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Until then, however, if it even needs to be said, the authorities are absolutely on our side, a wholesale breach of civil liberties has certainly not occurred, and most importantly I think it's awesome that everybody is complying with what the Boston Police (National Guard, etc) are asking of them.

I agree. But there are going to be some interesting civil liberties questions in the next couple of weeks. The one that comes to mind is whether a cop's memory of a grow operation or displays of kiddie porn seen in the searches today will constitute probable cause for a search warrant down the road once this has all died down.
posted by rtimmel at 10:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Overnight Coverage Of Boston’s Mayhem Underscores The Power Of Local Media

Very much in agreement with this Deadline article. The local news stream last night was very calm and professional but also had good reporters in the right places saying meaningful, calming things rather than spraying panic like CNN, et al.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I understand the sensitivity of specific information re: scanners, but is there any source of info for those of us with slow Internet? I can't stream audio. Anyone willing to post non-specific breaking news, unconfirmed or otherwise?
posted by karst at 10:26 AM on April 19, 2013

From twitter on the lockdown: "If this were Grand Theft Auto, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev would definitely have 6 stars right now."
posted by jaduncan at 10:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

karst, consider the reddit update thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1codv1/live_boston_update_thread_unofficial_4/
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 10:27 AM on April 19, 2013

We now know the ethnic background of the bombers.* We don't need anymore of this eyeball analysis.

Sorry if I was unclear. My point was that the original eyeball analysis and speculation was just boilerplate racial profiling.

In other news, it's weird to read about Cambridge Rindge and Latin in this context. CRLS. I know so many people who went to school there. They threw much better parties than the Brookline kids.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If they have ID'd this guy's phone, I don't think that it'd be too hard to get the authority to remotely turn on the microphone and/or camera. If the phone still has a battery in it.

http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/150467
posted by zerobyproxy at 10:27 AM on April 19, 2013

If you can stream video, go here. It's close-captioned.
posted by cooker girl at 10:27 AM on April 19, 2013

WRT my earlier comment - I have no insider info, just was guessing from the front-page pix on the Boston Globe website. I had guessed you wouldn't line up dozens of police officers, guns drawn etc in front of a house that was just occupied by garden-variety Watertown citizens(?) "teams moved into position in Watertown..." I know nothing of actual police work.
posted by newdaddy at 10:27 AM on April 19, 2013

Anyone willing to post non-specific breaking news, unconfirmed or otherwise?

CNN?
posted by burnmp3s at 10:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

Looking at the front page of CNN.com at the moment ("WHERE IS HE? MANHUNT FOR SECOND SUSPECT") reminds me of something out of Philip K. Dick.


I want to point out that this is not an exaggerated headline.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:28 AM on April 19, 2013

karst: “I understand the sensitivity of specific information re: scanners, but is there any source of info for those of us with slow Internet? I can't stream audio. Anyone willing to post non-specific breaking news, unconfirmed or otherwise?”

If you want the firehose, using as little bandwidth as possible, you probably want Twitter. (That's a link to the realtime updating tweets on hashtag #Boston.)
posted by koeselitz at 10:28 AM on April 19, 2013

The one that comes to mind is whether a cop's memory of a grow operation or displays of kiddie porn seen in the searches today will constitute probable cause for a search warrant down the road once this has all died down.

I <3 civil liberties, but let's jump off that bridge when we come to it, please?
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:28 AM on April 19, 2013

karst, consider the reddit update thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1codv1/live_boston_update_thread_unofficial_4/

And don't get your hopes up when something is posted, as it's very raw and a lot of stuff is followed in minutes by the equivalent of "never mind, scientists say it was an earthquake and not Godzilla attacking Tokyo."
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If they have ID'd this guy's phone, I don't think that it'd be too hard to get the authority to remotely turn on the microphone and/or camera. If the phone still has a battery in it.

http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/150467

Wouldn't they need to tap the phone/install an app onto it, or do all legal phones have a law-enforcement-controllable facility for directly accessing the microphone?
posted by acb at 10:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's sad to know I will never do or post anything more popular on Metafilter than getting stuck in an elevator. (I totaled over 400 favorites on that one.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

People in Boston are pretty obedient.

I actually had two errands in Watertown this morning. I'm just outside of the official locked down towns but the office downtown is closed, there is no subway or buses, police all over. Staying at home and watching the coverage just makes sense.

Police all over but I was at the edges of the site a couple days ago and the police were exceptionally polite to everyone.
posted by sammyo at 10:31 AM on April 19, 2013

Mapes, the Globe's map looks fine to be. You may be seeing the controlled detonation site near Kenmore or an additional Norfolk St because we are not creative with naming things here in Boston.
posted by maryr at 10:31 AM on April 19, 2013

The news video stream linked to just now offers reportage of recent developments. At least re the clearing for the controlled explosion.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:31 AM on April 19, 2013

One of the people J-tsar tweeted with (and seemed to know in real life) seems to think that it's the same person but her view of him doesn't match the police reports.
posted by drezdn at 10:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Is it completely unrelated to point out some good news this morning? Serbia and Kosovo are starting to normalize diplomatic ties. Sometimes Slavic states and breakaway Muslim enclaves can learn to live with one another. BBC article.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Boston officials asking the public to leave their workplaces and go home, if they got to work before the shelter-in-place was in effect.
posted by cooker girl at 10:32 AM on April 19, 2013

From the ZDNet article, probably my favorite article of 2006: 'An article in the Financial Times last year said mobile providers can "remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call."'
posted by sudama at 10:32 AM on April 19, 2013

I think that the phone carriers/manufacturers have built in back doors for law enforcement. However, I am assuming that. If anyone knows for sure....
posted by zerobyproxy at 10:32 AM on April 19, 2013

Mapes, the Globe's map looks fine to be.

They have since corrected the Norfolk St. address. (Several blocks away from my apartment!).
posted by Mapes at 10:34 AM on April 19, 2013

Positive stories: Viral Facebook Post Helps Boston Marathon Runner Find And Thank Kind Stranger Following Bombing
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

In addition to Bostonians being "obedient" or "scared" or whathaveyou, I'd like to point out that being asked not to go to work on Friday after a stressful week? Not that hard a sell.
posted by maryr at 10:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [21 favorites]

You'll also find gems like this in the Reddit thread:

EDIT 200 1:26: Correspondent /u/potato_bus says another press conference is coming up.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I feel badly for the hourly wage workers who won't get paid today due to the lockdown*. The loss of one day's pay can really wreck some people's finances.

*or whatever we're calling it now
posted by desjardins at 10:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

zerobyproxy: "I think that the phone carriers/manufacturers have built in back doors for law enforcement. However, I am assuming that. If anyone knows for sure...."

... they're under a draconian NDA or working for a LEO.
posted by brokkr at 10:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

People in Boston are pretty obedient.

Is there where I get to slap our collective back over the lack of looting?
posted by wensink at 10:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Toronto aunt of Boston bombing suspects says nephews innocent. SunNews. CBC.
posted by Kabanos at 10:35 AM on April 19, 2013

People in Boston are pretty obedient.

I'd say "cooperative" is probably a better word..
posted by samsara at 10:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

One of the people J-tsar tweeted with (and seemed to know in real life) seems to think that it's the same person but her view of him doesn't match the police reports.

I wish his twitter friends would lock their accounts. I know the people tweeting them the nasty messages are just internet tough guys, but I found them pretty upsetting to read.
posted by jamesonandwater at 10:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Mapes - I used to live over on Columbia, my friends lived at Broadway & Tremont and at Tremont & Hampshire. I am very grateful we have all moved away from Area 4 since.
posted by maryr at 10:36 AM on April 19, 2013

Um I'm sure King George disagrees.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

MEMA spokesman on WHDH just announced that they don't expect people trapped at work to stay there, and to feel free to drive or take a taxi (which are running again) or call a friend for a ride. Which I think should help take the stink of "martial law" off this and put it in the rightful context of "we don't want a lot of civilians outside because of crossfire/misidentification issues."
posted by Freon at 10:37 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh, come the fuck on. What do I have to do, post a dot?
posted by klangklangston at 10:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Interview with their uncle in DC -
Interviewer: "what what behind it?"
Uncle - "Being losers!"

Really?

Is there a link to this interview somewhere?
posted by Flunkie at 10:38 AM on April 19, 2013

Toronto aunt of Boston bombing suspects says nephews innocent. SunNews. CBC.

How dumb do you have to be to speak up and say something like that at a time like this...
posted by KokuRyu at 10:39 AM on April 19, 2013

I think that the phone carriers/manufacturers have built in back doors for law enforcement. However, I am assuming that. If anyone knows for sure....

Isn't the phone network based on openly published standards, with handsets made by manufacturers abroad? If there was an “enable law-enforcement bugging” mode, its existence would be known, and either it could be activated by anyone (organised crime, jealous ex-boyfriends, &c.) or they'd have to get companies in Europe, China, &c., to put the FBI's public key in their chipsets in advance. If this isn't just something the Americans have, they'd have to do the same for the law enforcement agencies in other countries as well, including hostile countries such as China, Iran and such. By which point, either any country can tap the phones in any other country and everyone in the intelligence community knows about it, the phones can tell where they are and only accept the legitimate keys of the local law jurisdiction in a reasonably failsafe way (a problem that, for example, DRM implementers haven't succeeded with), or it'd be possible to defeat this by buying a phone with a noncooperative foreign country's law enforcement key in it abroad and using it with a local SIM card. (“Let's see the FBI request the Venezuelan secret service's key for tapping this burner phone...”)
posted by acb at 10:39 AM on April 19, 2013

Is there where I get to slap our collective back over the lack of looting?

Wait until nightfall. If they don't get those packies open by the time folks need to make an evening beer run, there is going to be trouble.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

First hand account of being detained by the police last night in Watertown

(not me)
posted by edgeways at 10:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Flunkie, they've been playing it over and over on WHDH.
posted by cooker girl at 10:39 AM on April 19, 2013

Toronto aunt of Boston bombing suspects says nephews innocent.

If that's the aunt I heard interviewed earlier on NPR (and I think it is as her statements at the beginning of the conversation feel like they match up) she said the FBI photographs convinced her. The disbelief was more of a "How? Why?" kind of thing.
posted by maryr at 10:39 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh, come the fuck on. What do I have to do, post a dot?

Your best bet is probably productively contributing to the conversation.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

From the aunt: "However, she said she spoke to the oldest, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, two years ago when his daughter was born, and then again a year ago.

She said Tamerlan is married to a woman that she described as a Christian, and that he's been staying at home taking care of his daughter while his wife worked."
posted by youandiandaflame at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Klang: updates are your friends.
Also, "Black Twitter" making jokes about the situation in the hashtag #TMZReports
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2013

Uncle Ruslan interview
posted by AwkwardPause at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh, come the fuck on. What do I have to do, post a dot?

Ideally just not posting something referencing its own "I'm posting a comment because a mod deleted my other comment and just noting the timestamp to myself isn't an option for some reason" metaness in an already cluttered thread would do it.
posted by cortex at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Is there a link to this interview somewhere?

Here
posted by axiom at 10:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The uncle is a true bad ass. All of the friends talking about suspect #2 scares the hell out of me.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 10:42 AM on April 19, 2013

Man, you know it's time to unplug when the signal-to-noise ratio is like eating five pounds of sawdust with each french fry.

Thank goodness for this place, but I still think I'm gonna go meditate for about a month.
posted by Mooski at 10:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I think those #TMZReports jokes are about TMZ.
posted by sudama at 10:42 AM on April 19, 2013

Umm, I think the relatives of the suspect are saying unwise things because media outlets are shoving microphones in the faces of anyone they can find and asking them what's happening when they most likely have little more clue than the rest of us.
posted by dry white toast at 10:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Folks, we've got a chat room for people who just need to have people to have running conversation with MeFites, ideally this thread is for talking about the topic of the thread more or less. I made a comment in a related MeTa thread about how people can be a little mindful about how we're dealing with these events on MetaFilter and feel free to go to that thread for more discussion on those topics.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on April 19, 2013

"Klang: updates are your friends."

Updates disappear when I hit back after posting. I'm doing other things, so I can't keep just endlessly hitting update here.
posted by klangklangston at 10:44 AM on April 19, 2013

Wouldn't they need to tap the phone/install an app onto it, or do all legal phones have a law-enforcement-controllable facility for directly accessing the microphone?

Apparently the latter as of the last court mention, and it's called a roaming intercept. A description from US v. John Tomero et al (2006) No. S2 06 Crim. 0008(LAK).

"The government applied for a "roving bug," that is, the interception
of Ardito's conversations at locations that were "not practical" to
specify, as authorized by 18 U.S.C. § 2518(11)(a). Judge Jones
granted the application, authorizing continued interception at the
four restaurants and the installation of a listening device in
Ardito's cellular telephone. The device functioned whether the phone
was powered on or off, intercepting conversations within its range
wherever it happened to be."

Without going into huge amounts of courtroom discussion, it was clear that physical access was not gained to the phone. Additionally, the location of a switched on phone can be determined via tower triangulation. If there's stuff in the baseband (modem) code rather than the consumer facing OS, you can't do much about that. That bit is almost never open source, and often has rights to call any part of memory etc. It has root on root, and makes cellular OSes hard to trust.
posted by jaduncan at 10:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

...I am totally unaccustomed to seeing photos like this from news stories with a dateline of Watertown. Wow.
posted by maryr at 10:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

presser now has aunt talking about the boys
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:45 AM on April 19, 2013

The Sheikh Who May Have Influenced Boston’s Tsarnaev Brothers
posted by BobbyVan at 10:46 AM on April 19, 2013

local news presser
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:47 AM on April 19, 2013

CNN's saying there will be a controlled detonation in Cambridge this afternoon.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 10:47 AM on April 19, 2013

The aunt is going to be turned into a meme...
posted by AwkwardPause at 10:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

would we be having this discussion about wars in other places if they were Irish protestants from Belfast who moved here 10+ years ago?

I actually thought, 'Wouldn't it be weird if this was an incredibly belated revenge attack by loyalist paramilitaries?' when the news first broke. Ridiculous, obviously, but it's not like that lot are all forgive and forget about NorAid.
posted by jack_mo at 10:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Re: religious influence, Aunt saying a lot of disconnected stuff (youtube what?), but in there that her nephew had recently become more observant and had started praying 5 times daily.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:49 AM on April 19, 2013

First hand account of being detained by the police last night in Watertown

A couple things caught my attention in that interview: First, "He told me it was very dangerous and that many cops were looking to 'shoot someone.'" Second, he was told to run back to his house (a couple hundred yards). He wasn't escorted. I hope the other law enforcement officers in the area had been told a civilian was making his way on foot to his house.
posted by audi alteram partem at 10:49 AM on April 19, 2013

anyone else starting to think that Tsarnaev is no longer in Watertown?
posted by beukeboom at 10:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yes, that aunt was a hoot. She was certainly giving the press people a dressing down. When she was talking about the ridiculous things that pop up on YouTube, I think I heard her say "what shit is that"... if I'm right about that, that's an image macro waiting to happen.
posted by scrowdid at 10:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Has anyone figured out what they were doing at MIT when the security officer was killed? Did he catch them doing something, or did they go there to shoot him, or what?
posted by Weeping_angel at 10:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I felt weird when the reporters kept pressing the uncle for a patriotism check. Just weird. That's not what this country is supposed to be about.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

I'm genuinely curious why the FBI didn't include this photo in their initial group. For the purpose if identification, it seems like the best one.
posted by davebush at 10:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

From the Guardian liveblog:

An auto mechanic in Somerville, Massachusetts, told reporters that a "very nervous" Dzhokhar Tsarnaev came to his shop Tuesday, the day after the bombing, to pick up a car he'd dropped off for repairs. TPM reports:

Gilberto Junior, 44, said that the man, who has been identified as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, appeared to be “very nervous.”

“He was biting his fingernails, and was shaky,” Junior said.

Tsarnaev had dropped of the car, which Junior described as a white Mercedes wagon, at the auto shop about two weeks earlier. It had rear bumper damage, and Tsarnaev had said it was his girlfriend’s. On Tuesday, when Tsarnaev suddenly returned, Junior told him the car wasn’t ready.

“I don’t care, I don’t care, I don’t care, I need the car right now,” Tsarnaev said, according to Junior.

The mechanic said Tsarnaev took the car without its rear bumper on.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

anyone else starting to think that Tsarnaev is no longer in Watertown?

I was about to reply "not if he has any sense in his fucking head" but I guess that's not making a commitment either way.
posted by griphus at 10:53 AM on April 19, 2013

Today we are all Paulie Walnuts -- 4/19 Nevar Forget

You guys do realize today's the anniversary of the OKC bombing, right?
posted by Dr. Zira at 10:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Auto Mechanic whom the brothers picked a car up from on Tuesday
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:53 AM on April 19, 2013

I felt weird when the reporters kept pressing the uncle for a patriotism check.

Glad I wasn't the only one.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 10:53 AM on April 19, 2013

The Onion: BREAKING: No News Breaking
posted by dry white toast at 10:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

I felt weird when the reporters kept pressing the uncle for a patriotism check. Just weird. That's not what this country is supposed to be about.

Tebbit, in a [1990] interview with the Los Angeles Times, said: "A large proportion of Britain's Asian population fail to pass the cricket test. Which side do they cheer for? It's an interesting test. Are you still harking back to where you came from or where you are?"

Tebbit told Woodrow Wyatt in 1991 that he did not think certain immigrant communities would assimilate "because some of them insist on sticking to their own culture, like the Muslims in Bradford and so forth, and they are extremely dangerous".

The more racism changes...
posted by jaduncan at 10:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Representatives of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today joined other leaders from the national and Washington-area Muslim community at a news conference in Washington, D.C., to state that Americans will remain united in face of developments in the Boston Marathon bombings that include the naming of suspects who are reportedly Muslim.
posted by mykescipark at 10:54 AM on April 19, 2013

That fascinating thing about this thread, and the story, is that despite having followed it religiously since this morning, I still don't know a lot more information. It boils down to "We know who the bomber is and we're taking extraordinary steps to hunt and capture him" Everything is minor details at this point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Has anyone figured out what they were doing at MIT when the security officer was killed? Did he catch them doing something, or did they go there to shoot him, or what?

BBC reported earlier the possibility that the officer somehow got in the way of them planting a bomb there, which is why the current massive shut down is based on--potential bombs set in other prominent places yesterday. Again, mostly speculation there.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:54 AM on April 19, 2013

anyone else starting to think that Tsarnaev is no longer in Watertown?

Given the shutdown of transportation, the logical place for him to be right now would be an empty basement or garage somewhere, no?
posted by dry white toast at 10:55 AM on April 19, 2013

NPR now reports that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was never close to making the USA boxing team.

Because thank god, only non-American immigrants would blow things up, there's no such thing as a domestic terrorist.
posted by dubusadus at 10:57 AM on April 19, 2013

Plant Hoax News (Conspiracy site) - Islamic terror from Caucasus next phase of plan to undermine our liberty:

"Pakistan’s ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) played a key role in organizing and training the Chechen rebel army. The ISI also played an instrumental role in supporting the Afghan Mujahideen, a Muslim paramilitary force that would eventually mature under the guiding hand of the CIA et al into the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

The British MI6 asset Abu Qatada raised money for the Chechnya jihad and the notorious Finsbury Park mosque imam Abu Hamza al-Masri – an informer for two British security services in London – raised funds for both the jihad in Chechnya and bin Laden’s Darunta camp in Afghanistan."

&c. &c.
posted by marienbad at 10:57 AM on April 19, 2013

The reports are a little confusing -- is there reason to believe he didn't blow town the first chance he got?
posted by griphus at 10:57 AM on April 19, 2013

The MIT CP was shot in his squad car though. I'm not sure how that happened. (I feel like I may have posted this in the other thread)
posted by maryr at 10:58 AM on April 19, 2013

>Given the shutdown of transportation, the logical place for him to be right now would be an empty basement or garage somewhere, no?

If he's still alive.
posted by mosk at 10:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Tamerlan had a daughter? This according to the aunt on CNN.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:58 AM on April 19, 2013

15 Polices officers injured last nite.

No offense but these guys are really crappy at actually killing people.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:58 AM on April 19, 2013

I take that back, I think he was found in his car. They could have moved him. I remember seeing a pic with blood on ground at Stata Ctr.
posted by maryr at 10:58 AM on April 19, 2013

Has anyone figured out what they were doing at MIT when the security officer was killed?

The one picture I saw from MIT was taken from an upper floor of the Koch Building (76) of a pedestrian area between Koch and the Stata Center (32), where the shooting appeared to have occurred. The area would have been visible from the street (intersection of Vassar & Main Sts.), and just down Main St (toward Boston), from the 7-11. According to the Globe's map, the carjacking took place a few more blocks down and over, on 3rd St. in East Cambridge. I live by their Norfolk St. residence; this is approximately the walking path I'd take to go from home to cross the Longfellow Bridge and go into Boston---to get to Beacon Hill and the Common, for example.
posted by Mapes at 10:59 AM on April 19, 2013

There was a huge amount of time between the shootout (1am) and the lockdown (not sure but maybe 4-6am) and when people woke up (even later). Seems reasonable to me that he could have escaped Watertown between 1 and 4 am.
posted by bobobox at 10:59 AM on April 19, 2013

Really? How interesting that there's not a single Ontario lawyer with your last name.

Slavic last names (which are usually gendered in the native language) are regularly butchered when they transcribe them to English. Her last name could be any of the myriad spellings of "Tsarniy," "Tsarnayev," "Tsarnayeva," and so on.
posted by griphus at 10:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

There's 1.5 pro-Obama tweets on the twitter account so Free Republic is probably in a frenzy right now.
posted by drezdn at 11:00 AM on April 19, 2013

Dasein: "What a moron. Getting into a shooutout with the police and throwing more bombs at them not enough to convince her?

I particularly love this part: “I am a lawyer and there are four"

Apparently she's the love child of Baghdad Bob and Orly Taitz.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

it seems weird that so much is made of what his uncle said - i know, absence of other information - but he says he hasn't seen them in 5 years? so when the youngest was 14? i have some family i haven't seen in 5, 10, 15 years and they would know nothing about me - this goes double for family that i live close to but don't visit.
posted by nadawi at 11:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

here was a huge amount of time between the shootout (1am) and the lockdown

The cops had been swarming the area pretty thoroughly from the shootout on. It doesn't mean he couldn't have escaped, but it would have been difficult.
posted by drezdn at 11:01 AM on April 19, 2013

This is what you say if the new york post asks to use your photos
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

drezdn: "There's 1.5 pro-Obama tweets on the twitter accountBarack Obama is still President, so Free Republic is probably in a frenzy right now."

(ftfy)
posted by tonycpsu at 11:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

There's enough here to keep Alex Jones hopping for months.

You mean they found a huge stash of cocaine in Boston!?
posted by FJT at 11:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

griphus, that's possible, but if that's the case, then the Toronto Star screwed up, because that's how they're spelling it.

I would not be remotely surprised that they screwed up Slavic morphology and arbitrary transliteration spelling rules in the middle of a crisis.
posted by griphus at 11:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

anyone else starting to think that Tsarnaev is no longer in Watertown?

Why the hell where they still in Boston anyways.

This whole thing seems really unplanned. One has a girlfriend, one went to pick up a car the day after the explosion. What they didn't think of CCTV cameras, they didn't leave town?

Such an amateur job, or they planned to continue with more attacks...
posted by Burgatron at 11:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

As someone stuck in Waltham, I appreciate this thread. Thanks.
posted by superior julie at 11:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Boy, the Toronto media must have a full-on erection about the fact that a family member lives in the Greater Toronto Area.

The media are like heroin addicts sometimes.
posted by dry white toast at 11:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

I wish I could subscribe to a service that would send me an alert when there's a new development.
posted by Area Man at 11:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"imma just gonna leave a
.
for the the 19 year old."

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?
posted by marienbad at 11:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

If there's stuff in the baseband (modem) code rather than the consumer facing OS, you can't do much about that. That bit is almost never open source, and often has rights to call any part of memory etc. It has root on root, and makes cellular OSes hard to trust.

Does the baseband have a direct connection to the microphone on all street-legal phones?

Come to think of it, it could; I once had an old iPhone 3G on which the microphone worked in the phone app but not in any other app. Which suggests that the app-hosting part of it accessing the microphone is very much auxilliary to the core functionality.
posted by acb at 11:04 AM on April 19, 2013

Updated CT vehicle description:

1999 Green Honda Civic

REGISTRATION: 116 GC7 Massachusetts
posted by neroli at 11:04 AM on April 19, 2013

Such an amateur job, or they planned to continue with more attacks...

The fact that they seem to have been dropping bombs as they went, rather than just getting the hell out of Dodge suggests they're just trying to cause chaos until they're gunned down.

In which case...
posted by dry white toast at 11:05 AM on April 19, 2013

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?

Alleged murderer.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

marienbad: ""imma just gonna leave a
.
for the the 19 year old."

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?"

Yeah? A life's a life...
posted by Strass at 11:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

Nate Bell has apologized for the timing of his tweet.

Y'know, because the timing is why you were upset.
posted by nickmark at 11:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Wait, so the car's been spotted in Connecticut?
posted by mudpuppie at 11:06 AM on April 19, 2013

The fact that they seem to have been dropping bombs as they went, rather than just getting the hell out of Dodge suggests they're just trying to cause chaos until they were gunned down.

Yeah, if they had any serious interest in not getting caught they wouldn't have been in Boston last night.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:06 AM on April 19, 2013

There is enough WTF to this whole thing to make several very bad Bruckheimer movies. Which will inevitably be one of the outcomes.
posted by mosk at 11:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

BREAKING: 'The Onion' In Kill Range Of Boston Bomber Suspect
Do We Take The Shot? Tweet Us Your Votes
posted by jcruelty at 11:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?

Yes. It was life that went horribly wrong somewhere and all the potential good from that life and person was lost. By all accounts was great in a lot of ways, so it will be interesting to see what turned him down this particular path.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

However, as noted above, going to Russia =/= "military training"

Well, depends on where.

In the U.S. I understand you get a pass on adv. infantry training if you’re from Detroit.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

My deskmate is supposed to be taking a bus this evening to Boston. He is wondering if this trip is going to be feasible. I am guessing not.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 11:07 AM on April 19, 2013

Wait, so the car's been spotted in Connecticut?

The CT state police are assisting on this case so that the Mass Comm Police etc. can focus on the search.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"If this were Grand Theft Auto, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev would definitely have 6 stars right now."

I confess I had that thought myself while listening to the radio this morning. Followed by a thought about how very "Natural Born Killers" it feels to be following this whole thing through the media and internet.
posted by nickmark at 11:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Whups.
posted by sibboleth at 11:08 AM on April 19, 2013

There are also no lawyers in Ontario with her first name.

Jeeze, calm down. This lady hasn't done anything wrong. She's probably a lawyer who doesn't practice any more/emigrated and found too many barriers to entry to practice in ON (trust me, this is incredibly common).
posted by SassHat at 11:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

UPDATE: ‘The Onion’ Apologizes For Killing Innocent Boston Man Tom Mahoney
We Spoke Too Soon
posted by jcruelty at 11:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

There are also no lawyers in Ontario with her first name.

So? Maybe she went to law school and sat for the Bar, then opted not to practice. It's not unheard of. Why all the worry about her, anyway?
posted by MissySedai at 11:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Wait, so the car's been spotted in Connecticut?

The car that was reported as possibly the suspect's is at the scene of the location they are preparing to secure. That's on the local news report videostream atm.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:09 AM on April 19, 2013

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?"


People handle situations differently. I for one don't share the bloodthirsty, string em up, "evildoer" reactions people are having. I don't think compassion can be wasted.
posted by sweetkid at 11:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

The CBC needs to get the aunt and Don Cherry together for a new variety show.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 11:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?

A healthy dose of empathy by all parties can't be the worst thing. I mean, look at Nate "Fucking Moron" Bell
posted by SassHat at 11:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

My deskmate is supposed to be taking a bus this evening to Boston. He is wondering if this trip is going to be feasible. I am guessing not.

Check with the company. Because No.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Boston Police Dept. ‏@Boston_Police 1m
#WANTED: Police seeking MA Plate: 116-GC7, ’99 Honda Sedan, Color - Green. Possible suspect car. Do not approach. pic.twitter.com/IVCPtmVwRT
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:10 AM on April 19, 2013

Dasein, the internet truth squad is over there
posted by Rumple at 11:10 AM on April 19, 2013

So? Maybe she went to law school and sat for the Bar, then opted not to practice. It's not unheard of. Why all the worry about her, anyway?

When your only tool is Google, everything looks like a search term.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [26 favorites]

CBS just said the green Honda report has been rescinded.
posted by Brainy at 11:10 AM on April 19, 2013

is there reason to believe he didn't blow town the first chance he got?

That's assuming that he'd have somewhere better to hide. Or to make a last stand/suicide mission. Or to attempt to get out of the country. Just running and hoping to blend in somewhere else doesn't sound like much of a plan.
posted by acb at 11:10 AM on April 19, 2013

I wish I could subscribe to a service that would send me an alert when there's a new development.

RSS feed for "Updates on Aftermath of Boston Marathon Explosions" at NYT
posted by seemoreglass at 11:11 AM on April 19, 2013

Brainy, that was tweeted from BPD a minute ago. I don't think it has been rescinded.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:12 AM on April 19, 2013

Suspects' father (via ABC News, as homelystar linked to): "If they kill my second child, I will know that it is an inside job, a hit job. The police are to blame," the father told ABC News. "Someone, some organization is out to get them."

What in the actual hell? He indeed claims to have known about the bombing and said they spoke of it before it happened this week. Crazy, crazy. Apparently it runs in the family.

Where did you read that they spoke of it before it happened? And where did you (at least seemingly) get the idea that he claims to have known that his sons were the perpetrators of the bombing? I might have missed something, but neither of these things seems to me to be present in the article that you linked to.

The closest seems to be this:

The father said he spoke to his sons by phone earlier this week. "We talked about the bombing. I was worried about them," Anzor Tsarnaev said.

"Earlier this week" does not mean "before the bombing" (in fact it probably means the opposite), and "We talked about the bombing. I was worried about them" does not mean "We talked about the fact that they were the bombers."

Plus, the fact that the article goes on to say that he says his sons are innocent seems directly at odds with the idea that he knew they were the perpetrators, and with the idea that he knew about the bombing before it happened.
posted by Flunkie at 11:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

CBS just said the green Honda report has been rescinded.
Yes, this.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:12 AM on April 19, 2013

I'll be really interested to hear what the UMASS part of the investigation yields.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:12 AM on April 19, 2013

FBI on Honda Civic, 10 minutes ago.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?

We don't know how involved the 19 year old was. We don't really know much of anything right now. I mean, he could be a cold-blooded murderer, or he could be a kid who made some dumb choices and got dragged by his brother into a bad situation. We don't know and it seems premature to condem him already.

Anyway, I'm hoping and praying they catch him alive, both for his sake and so they can talk to him and find out what happened.

When I look at that picture of him, all I see is a kid. I hope they don't kill him.

.
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Wait until nightfall. If they don't get those packies open by the time folks need to make an evening beer run, there is going to be trouble.

This is true!
posted by ericb at 11:13 AM on April 19, 2013

Flunkie, that comment you are responding to is from two hours ago and has been discussed to death.
posted by smackfu at 11:13 AM on April 19, 2013

I just want to know why.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Yes, this.

CBS seems to be wrong on that then
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:14 AM on April 19, 2013

imma just gonna leave a
.
for the the 19 year old.

Besides the whole he's-a-fuckin-terrorist angle, there's also the (as far as we know) he's-not-dead thing.
posted by 0 at 11:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Y'all have neatly summed up why I can't play any of the GTA games.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"What century are we living in? she says. "We need evidence. Otherwise you can go shoot anyone like a chicken on the street. Not for me. We need evidence."

Do they shoot chickens? I'd have thought they would have made too small and fast-moving targets.
posted by acb at 11:15 AM on April 19, 2013

Mod note: Seriously, maybe enough with the GTA jokes.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

METAFILTER: that comment you are responding to is from two hours ago and has been discussed to death.
posted by philip-random at 11:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

I just want to know why.

I feel like if the brother had been able to be taken alive we would know more about why, unfortunately.
posted by sweetkid at 11:15 AM on April 19, 2013

I just want to know why.

Because sometimes, people just SUCK.
posted by MissySedai at 11:16 AM on April 19, 2013

NYC Police looking for the Honda Civic now. Definitely not telling my fiance the suspect is headed right at us.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:16 AM on April 19, 2013

CBS seems to be wrong on that then

Yeah, now they're going the other way. Seems inconsistent with other stuff, but still should be credited for now. No harm if it turns out to have already been secured.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:17 AM on April 19, 2013

..or he could be a kid who made some dumb choices and got dragged by his brother into a bad situation

I'm guessing that's what happened. But I also thought the bombing was done by right wing nut jobs, so what the hell do I know?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

I find I have nothing to say at this point but will reserve the right to comment when all the facts are in, details provide, and due consideration given to what was done, how it was done, by whom it was done, and what seemingly was the reason it was done and how the officials resolved the situation fully.
posted by Postroad at 11:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I wonder if those are cars that have been stolen since the two man shootout last night - ie where is he? The earlier car was abandoned in Cambridge. Good thing they closed the T.
posted by shothotbot at 11:18 AM on April 19, 2013

I really hope he doesn't kill himself.
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:18 AM on April 19, 2013

Yeah, the best thing for justice is always a fair trial.
posted by klangklangston at 11:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Re: the 'why didn't they flee Monday night?' question: Until their pictures were released yesterday, they may have believed they wouldn't be caught if they played it cool. Whereas it would look suspicious if two brothers from the area suddenly left town shortly after a bombing.
posted by Eyebeams at 11:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

One thing I have learned from listening to a scanner while working is that it really must be embarassing to be called out by full name for having an open mike.
posted by chemoboy at 11:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

UMASS Dartmouth professor tutored bomb suspect in Chechen history.

Liberal indoctrination at Ivy League* colleges! Take it away, Drudge, Daily Caller, et. al.!

(Yes, I know it's not that Dartmouth, but why let the facts get in the way of some good pitchforkin'?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

NYC Police looking for the Honda Civic now.

There are PD's from all over the NE United States working the Boston area right now. The logistical juggling act on the scanner is spectacular. "this is unit 123 I need a k-9 over on X street, over." "OK 123 we've got NYPD K-9 unit 4 on route, over..." No delay between routing at all!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I would prefer he listens to his uncle. I was really impressed by his interview.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

When someone does something horrible, especially someone so young, I am prone to feel sorrow that they did something so irrevocable, so damaging. This in no way means that I don't feel they should face the consequences of their actions, or that I feel any less sorrow for those they harmed.

There was, for a time, a kid who didn't do this. Who didn't destroy lives, including his own. I am not sorry to see a . for that kid, while not losing sight of the evil he did.
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [49 favorites]

Re: the 'why didn't they flee Monday night?' question: Until their pictures were released yesterday, they may have believed they wouldn't be caught if they played it cool. Whereas it would look suspicious if two brothers from the area suddenly left town shortly after a bombing.

This is the whole problem with "let's take a look at the root causes of terrorism" argument, because it assumes the perpetrators of mayhem like this are intelligent enough to construct a coherent worldview, and then act on it.

These guys learned how to make a bomb from a pressure cooker. That's pretty nifty, but it's something any 15 year old could learn how to do.

It could be that these guys were not particularly bright.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013

I thought I heard the Civic was parked behind the apartment building.?
posted by batou_ at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013

Mod note: Comments removed, cut it out or go do something else.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013

flunkie: Yeah, I copped to having misread that (wasn't that even in the old thread?) earlier.

Or what philip-random said.
posted by youandiandaflame at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013

I'm in Back Bay, right where the Marathon bombings happened, but far from the active manhunt.

(Haven't had time to catch up on the entirety of this thread, responding to some comments toward the beginning.)

I'm in no mood whatsoever to debate the implications of what's going on for Democracy in general. Our city was bombed. An officer was killed by men with explosives who just wanted to do as much damage as possible. An entire Metro area is locked down and pretty freaked out by the very, very real possibility that this guy wants to do damage for the sake of doing damage. And in the midst of all this, the police are doing what they can to bring him in alive.

Let's talk about Democracy when he's caught alive and entitled to due process to a fair trial. Right now, the Boston lockdown is 100% voluntary. If you leave your home, you will not be arrested. Police are requesting to search homes and people are consenting because it's a FUCKING NIGHTMARE. Maybe you wouldn't let them in, but try not to armchair quarterback a terrified city's response to crisis.
posted by sonika at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [32 favorites]

We'll never catch them Tsarnaev boys, they crossed the county line..
posted by Damienmce at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Honda just has to be loving all this free advertising.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Although HOURS old now, I heard a radio interview on NPR with a Boston-area garage owner who had once employed the suspects' father.

Man, they are just filling time. I have never heard a more useless interview in my life.
posted by GuyZero at 11:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

From the Guardian liveblog:

In another painful case of misplaced suspicions, the family of a young man reported missing last month have had to take down a Facebook account set up to help find him after a wave of Internet users falsely – incorrectly – connected the missing man to the photos of Boston bombing suspects released Thursday.

ugh I hate people
posted by desjardins at 11:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Isn't why rather obvious? I'm sure Islam's violent streak influenced the details, but crazy Imams preaching over the internet not so much. Instead, we've two kids who grew up here and turned towards violence in much same manor as the Columbine shooters. As they graduated first, they selected their target from outside their school world, otherwise this looks like Columbine.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Re: the 'why didn't they flee Monday night?' question: Until their pictures were released yesterday, they may have believed they wouldn't be caught if they played it cool. Whereas it would look suspicious if two brothers from the area suddenly left town shortly after a bombing.

Doesn't really explain why they decided to rob a 7-11 a few blocks away from where they lived after their photos were out but before they were identified. My guess is that they were just idiots who didn't think things through very well.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Thank god for Metafilter, because every single time I've heard someone talk about this out loud in public today (except for, thankfully, the actual news people I work with where the mantra from the top down is Ken White's headline "Richard Jewell Cannot Accept Our Apology") they've been taking some cable news "analyst" speculation as fact and it's driving me up the damn wall. I am locking myself in my office with headphones on until 5.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

You evidently have been only selectively paying attention to the information we have about this, then.

No, I've been paying attention to all of the information I can find. I'm saying that my knee-jerk reaction when I see his picture is that he's a kid. Also, everyone who actually knew him seems to be saying that he was a good kid, speaks several languages, plays the piano, etc. I'm having a hard time reconciling that with the evidence and actions they've taken recently.
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I also really hope he doesn't kill himself.

Yep. As was said upthread by RobotVoodooPower, "You know, it seems the most damaging thing the perp could do at this point is to tie a brick to his feet, jump into the Charles River and never be seen again." Fortunately, I don't think Dzhokar is old (wise) enough to realize that this would be the masterstroke.
posted by wensink at 11:28 AM on April 19, 2013

I've looked again at three pictures from this week's Boston tragedies.

1. The 8-year-old who was killed in the blast.
2. The 19-year-old suspected bomber.
3. The 26-year-old police officer killed last night.

I feel different kinds of sorrow about each of those boys. 1 and 3 are easy to figure out.

2 is tougher, and I share the anger toward him as well. I also can't help feeling society/humanity has failed him too.

But most of all I can't get over how young they all look.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

My guess is that they were just idiots who didn't think things through very well.

This could be said of anyone that commits crimes like this.
posted by drezdn at 11:28 AM on April 19, 2013

> For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs
> to maim and kill? seriously?

To paraphrase, "Father forgive them, because they are so helplessly impossibly clueless about what they do."
posted by jfuller at 11:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

UMASS Dartmouth professor tutored bomb suspect in Chechen history.

my entirely subjective takeaway from this is that these guys are/were more Unabomber types than affiliated with any kind of big deal organized (so-called) terrorist organization. By which I mean, they seem to not be complete idiots, they have done some research, there may even turn out to be some substance to their grievances ...

But in the end, their actions come from the worst kind of alienated male dissonance. Young men who long ago lost their sense of humility, and thus, easily humiliated. Which in my experience is one of the prime triggers for violence.
posted by philip-random at 11:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

The cover of next week's New Yorker will be emotional for a lot of people.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

His twitter account has something for everyone... Racism, homophobia, Obama support.
posted by drezdn at 11:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Isn't why rather obvious? I'm sure Islam's violent streak influenced the details, but not necessarily crazy Imams preaching over the internet. Instead, we've two kids who grew up here and turned towards violence in much same manor as the Columbine shooters. As they graduated first, they selected their target from outside their school world, otherwise this looks like Columbine.

You could be right, but I don't feel like we know enough for anything to be obvious yet. I don't find the crazy internet preacher thing so implausible, when we know its been a factor for others. None of us knew anything about these guys yesterday, but now we know what motivated them to commit a horrible crime?
posted by Area Man at 11:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Doesn't really explain why they decided to rob a 7-11 a few blocks away from where they lived after their photos were out but before they were identified. My guess is that they were just idiots who didn't think things through very well.

I initially had the same thought, but my guess is they saw themselves in the video, freaked out, figured they needed some cash to skip town and that's what they came up with. Still not very well-planned, but it makes some sense.
posted by breakin' the law at 11:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

The Onion really sums it all up.
posted by kinnakeet at 11:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"This could be said of anyone that commits crimes like this."

The general gist of any true crime police book, Homicide by David Simon especially, is that cops catch criminals mainly because criminals are dumb. Like, #1 reason by a length.
posted by klangklangston at 11:31 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Also, 9-11 truther.
posted by drezdn at 11:32 AM on April 19, 2013

my entirely subjective takeaway from this is that these guys are/were more Unabomber types than affiliated with any kind of big deal organized (so-called) terrorist organization.

The low quality explosive made is a giveaway for that. Al Qaeda and the Chechens have competent chemists and everything (even setting aside the fact people can just look in various US Army manuals).
posted by jaduncan at 11:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Doesn't really explain why they decided to rob a 7-11 a few blocks away from where they lived after their photos were out but before they were identified. My guess is that they were just idiots who didn't think things through very well.

I think the original plan was to chill out, and play it cool. Once they realized the gig was up, they tried to split town - but they needed cash and road beers first.

More than anything, this doesn't seem to have been planned that well - though they've done an impressive job of avoiding capture so far.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Just noticed Street closed in my neck of the woods in Colorado just dgot this report: Federal Boulevard is closed between 80th and 82nd streets. Police in Westminster are investigating a possible explosive device at an apartment building and have put two schools on lockout as a precaution.
posted by lordaych at 11:33 AM on April 19, 2013

lordaych: my office buliding on long island had some kind of threat this morning, we were all evacuated for a couple hours until the police could search the building.

It's like everyone is in full freak-out mode.
posted by inertia at 11:35 AM on April 19, 2013

You evidently have been only selectively paying attention to the information we have about this, then.

Okay, let's rock and roll:

We've got a kid who was probably born, but at least spent more than half of his life living in exile because his country was in a state of war (or for whatever reason ethnic Chechens decided to move. See Ivan Fyodorovich's fantastic comment above.) Said exile was in Kyrgyzstan, which, if its anything like basically every other country, is not exactly a land of opportunity, much less so for someone who is not ethnically Kyrgyz.

So he moved to America with his older brother, most likely as a refugee, and from what we can tell, he neither assimilated into or adopted the culture to any major extent and found himself alienated. Whether one led to the other, and which to which, is in the air. There's not a lot of Chechens, period. There's certainly not a lot of Chechens in America. There's Russians and Ukranians and so on, with whom he would share a language, but at the end of the day he isn't one of them.

Maybe he flirted with radical Islam. Maybe his brother got him into this. Maybe, maybe, maybe. But he's a kid who has had a hard life and made some massively stupid and horribly destructive choices. But I can't see how you can look at what we know of him and think "yep, this kid's just bad."
posted by griphus at 11:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [39 favorites]

(If I got any of the facts wrong up there, please feel free to correct me.)
posted by griphus at 11:35 AM on April 19, 2013

From a friend's FB post:

Things we'll do to keep people safe: Lock down an entire city for hours.

Things we won't do: A 5 min background check before you buy a gun.

Your friend has obviously never tried to buy a gun in MA.
posted by WhitenoisE at 11:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

It has turned into a perfect spring day for a manhunt in Boston..partly sunny, 70 degrees, light south winds.

This is by far the nicest day this spring and I can't bring my son to the playground and FUCK THIS GUY doesn't begin to cover it.
posted by sonika at 11:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

If I was trying to plot a modestly reasonable sequence of events, I'd assume these guys were preparing to get out of the city and move on to their next target, were making a last supply run at 7-11 (brilliant I know), got recognized by clerk and panicked, that escalated to a robbery, and things continued escalating from there.
posted by hoople at 11:36 AM on April 19, 2013

One thing I have learned from listening to a scanner while working is that it really must be embarassing to be called out by full name for having an open mike.

It is the worst thing. The worst thing. One time our chief dropped his radio between the seat of his truck and the gearshift and the damn thing was keyed on for an hour and a half. He checked his phone, finally, to find he had 147 missed calls and texts.

The good news is, almost everyone knows that when that happens, you switch to the next available channel, so it's not terribly damaging if it happens. Just, like, way embarrassing. EMS like to tease and they have crazy long memories. I pity the guy who does it during something like this.
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

This seems to be another incident that pushes the envelope of people's expectations of The Real

angrycat, I was just thinking about that a little while ago, how this is all starting to remind me of some story out of that blog posted a while back that's written by a guy who just plays real-life simulation games. Unfortunately, the bizarre is becoming the everyday.
posted by limeonaire at 11:37 AM on April 19, 2013

Yeah I'm running out of ways of entertaining our kid. My in-laws offered us shelter in NH if we want it, but I'm sort of uncomfortable driving out of Watertown right now, even if the lockdown is voluntary.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:37 AM on April 19, 2013

Mass Police have recalled the BOLO (be on lookout I guess?) for the Green Civic. They have that car already.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

he neither assimilated into or adopted the culture to any major extent and found himself alienated.

This may very well be true, but I'd say there's also notable evidence to the contrary.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

But I can't see how you can look at what we know of him and think "yep, this kid's just bad."

Nor do I. But I can't see how you can look at what we know of him and think, "yep, that's just a kid."
posted by OmieWise at 11:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

When this is over, Boston should get like a week of vacation or something. Like a snow day, but in reverse.
posted by ambrosia at 11:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

It is weird, if these guys had a "go-bag" with money and maybe even a pair of nice suit, ties, shoes, etc., they could probably have made it to Canada and beyond by now.

Hiding in plain-sight seems dumb, especially for people this young who had to know social media and camera phones means people would be able to figure it out fairly quickly.
posted by rosswald at 11:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

When this is over, Boston should get like a week of vacation or something. Like a snow day, but in reverse.

The people who get paid by the hour may not be too keen about that.
posted by acb at 11:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Heard an interview with the aunt of these brothers on NPR. She said that they knew nothing of Chechnya, that their parents moved to Kyrgyzstan as the war heated up in the 90's. That the older brother married a Christian woman and was the father to daughter. That he only started practicing his faith around 2007, and praying 5 times a day. Made him seem fairly normal.
posted by zerobyproxy at 11:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Angrycat: can you link to/do you know the name of the Murakami essay?
posted by tapir-whorf at 11:41 AM on April 19, 2013

Nate Bell:

I would like to apologize to the people of Boston & Massachusetts for the poor timing of my tweet earlier this morning. As a staunch and unwavering supporter of the individual right to self defense, I expressed my point of view without thinking of its effect on those still in time of crisis. In hindsight, given the ongoing tragedy that is still unfolding, I regret the poor choice of timing. Please know that my thoughts and prayers were with the people of Boston overnight and will continue as they recover from this tragedy.

Nate Bell completes the asshole trifecta:

1) make an obviously stupid tweet;
2) get told it's offensive;
3) up the asshole rating with non-apology.
posted by jaduncan at 11:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

I hope that at least the hourly workers who were at work when the shelter in place order came through get paid for their time. Although I don't think that's likely.
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:41 AM on April 19, 2013

"imma just gonna leave a
.
for the the 19 year old."

For a murderer? a cold-blooded murderer who sanely and with malice aforethought, planted bombs to maim and kill? seriously?
posted by marienbad at 2:04 PM on April 19 [+] [!]

I wrote something similar last night when I first heard that the suspects might be teenagers. It is entirely possible to have empathy for both victims and the killers-- especially when the killer is not fully grown-up and might be subject to pressure from an older brother. This boy will have to take full responsibility for what he and his brother did and, if captured alive, will have to live with that responsibility for the rest of his life. It isn't out of place to mourn a life that has so badly gone off the rails, especially when you read the descriptions by friends and classmates of a happy college student that was doing well with his studies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

But I can't see how you can look at what we know of him and think "yep, this kid's just bad."

He put a bomb down and pointed it at children watching (for all he knew) their dad finishing a marathon and looked another victim directly in the eyes, knowing he was going to blow them into pieces.

Yup, this kid's just bad.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

The Onion:

BREAKING: No News Breaking

BREAKING: Has The Word ‘Breaking’ Lost All Its Meaning?

BREAKING: Still Nothing

BREAKING: Can Anyone Ever Truly Know Anything? What Is The Truth?

BREAKING: We Might Be Doing A Bad Job

BREAKING: Do You Think We’re Doing A Good Job?

[I initially wrote "The Onion is killing it" then wanted to go less violent and could only think of "The Onion nails it" so I just gave up.]
posted by SassHat at 11:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [47 favorites]

I know everyone's worried but at what point and on whose authority do they just give up the manhunt + let everyone get back to life?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:43 AM on April 19, 2013

Oh I totally get that. It's wishful thinking for a city that has had a rough week, is all. Would not object to better labor provisions for hourly workers, but that deserves its own thread.
posted by ambrosia at 11:43 AM on April 19, 2013

Question: Since the suspect has a (likely) known twitter account, and possibly online accounts, wouldn't it be possible to get the MAC address of the device, and do some sort of trigger if that device was online?

If he was using a mobile phone to follow the news, could he be located that way?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:43 AM on April 19, 2013

Tech-savvy public plays key role in hunt for bombing suspects.
posted by ericb at 11:43 AM on April 19, 2013

He put a bomb down and pointed it at children watching (for all he knew) their dad finishing a marathon and looked another victim directly in the eyes, knowing he was going to blow them into pieces.

Yup, this kid's just bad.

And/or mentally ill, of course.
posted by jaduncan at 11:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I am sorry that the brothers felt this was necessary, and I pity them. Maybe not forgive, but I do feel sorry that their lives turned out this way.
posted by rosswald at 11:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

The best compliment you can give The Onion is "I can't tell if this is from The Onion or not!"
posted by dobi at 11:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Judging from his alleged twitter feed, he was pretty knowledgeable about American culture...
posted by drezdn at 11:44 AM on April 19, 2013

I know everyone's worried but at what point and on whose authority do they just give up the manhunt + let everyone get back to life?

Once they've killed or captured himor they finished the house to house searches and haven't found him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013

So he moved to America with his older brother, most likely as a refugee, and from what we can tell, he neither assimilated into or adopted the culture to any major extent and found himself alienated. Whether one led to the other, and which to which, is in the air.

I've been pouring over his 1k tweets. Other than a few choice tweets that are getting circulated in the media, it reads like he's your average American kid. He likes Breaking Bad and Key & Peele. He procrastinates on his homework. He quotes Jay-z and Eminem. He's pretty immersed in American culture. (Yes, there's casual homophobia/misogyny/racism. Unfortunately, that's also not unusual for teenage twitter users.).
posted by murfed13 at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

The reason I'm so interested in hearing what this guy's campus life was like is that it seems that if there was marked or snowballing alienation, it's relatively recent. Superficially at least, it sounds as if this kid was WAY more engaged and successful in navigating high school culture than pretty much any American-born teen mass killer.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

One thing I have learned from listening to a scanner while working is that it really must be embarassing to be called out by full name for having an open mike.

We yelled "HOT MIKE!" whenever anyone did that, when I was in Iraq. One guy did it so much that we actually started calling him "Hot Mike." The Battalion Commander called him Mike at his award ceremony at the end of our tour. Everyone found it hilarious. Except, of course, Chris.
posted by Etrigan at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [85 favorites]

I simultaneously feel bad that they turned out the way they apparently did while at the same time not being particularly upset by seeing the older brother's corpse in the morgue on Twitter.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013

And/or mentally ill, of course.

Haven't seen any evidence to support that, yet.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Seymour Zamboni: "It has turned into a perfect spring day for a manhunt in Boston..partly sunny, 70 degrees, light south winds."

METAFILTER: PERFECT DAY FOR A MANHUNT
posted by symbioid at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

TIL that Reddit and The New Yorker are both owned by the same company.

(Reddit is owned by Advance Publications, the parent company of Condé Nast, which is the publisher of The New Yorker.)
posted by chavenet at 11:45 AM on April 19, 2013

Here's the Murakami essay.
posted by limeonaire at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

Yes, there's casual homophobia/misogyny/racism. Unfortunately, that's also not unusual for teenage twitter users.

Or for American culture.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Which doesn't mean he wasn't internally a seething mass of malice and emptiness, but whatever.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2013

FWIW, they have a sister in the US as well. There's a Google News report about her cooperating with the investigation.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2013

(If I got any of the facts wrong up there, please feel free to correct me.)

I haven't been following the kid's personal story too closely (because it's so early and I don't like armchair psychologizing and really, who the hell knows?), but from what little I have seen he does appear to have been reasonably well-assimilated. I mean maybe that was all superficial and he was really a tortured, lonely soul underneath. Maybe something happened that made him snap. We don't know yet, we may never know, and speculation gets silly right quick, as CNN's coverage of this proves. But I don't think, right now, there's much grounding to say that he didn't "assimilate or adopt the culture to any major extent." That may very well be true, in the final reckoning, but what little shards of information we have about him right now indicate that it is not the case.
posted by breakin' the law at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2013

That would certainly suggest that he was pretty much assimilated, I think.

Is the social media stuff verified or not yet? I mean, there's levels of assimilation, of course. But he may have kept up a vKontakte profile. He may have followed European football. You don't live in this country from 9 years old and not adapt, but there's levels. I came to America from Russia when I was 6, many of my friends did as well from similar places (Belarus, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, etc.) the same age, we all lived in Russian neighborhoods and had Russian friends but I can name maybe two people that follow European football and not a single one with a vKontakte profile.

None of this points to anything concrete of course, and I'm using my own (very, very roughly) similar experiences as a baseline, but this kid wasn't 100% football games and apple pie or whatever (although he may have very well enjoyed both.)
posted by griphus at 11:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Patch Employee Detained in Search for Bomb Suspect -- "Patch Associate Regional Ad Director Al Wilson was detained by police after returning to his home in Watertown on Thursday night."
posted by ericb at 11:47 AM on April 19, 2013

or they finished the house to house searches and haven't found him.

Every house in Boston? Following reports on twitter--it's not just Watertown they're going house-to-house in.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:47 AM on April 19, 2013

For those wondering to what extent we should acknowledge the mere kid-ness of this evil kid,

By casting a person as evil, you refuse to acknowledge your common humanity with him. By acknowledging it, you may want to punish him, but at least you are admitting that he and you are of similar stock, albeit in very different places in life.

He's a kid. That's partly why it hurts us.
posted by stonepharisee at 11:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [35 favorites]

Once they've killed or captured himor they finished the house to house searches and haven't found him.

I just don't see an endgame for him here. Eric Rudolph had a support network, assets to draw from, and was capable of disappearing into - and surviving - in the woods for days at a time.

This kid doesn't seem to have any of those things.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Every house in Boston? Following reports on twitter--it's not just Watertown they're going house-to-house in.

God that is so scary.
posted by sweetkid at 11:48 AM on April 19, 2013

Is the social media stuff verified or not yet?

Anyone who he tweets with who hasn't locked their account seem to think it's him (not that he's guilty, but that the name/pic the media are giving out match their friend).
posted by drezdn at 11:48 AM on April 19, 2013

This boy will have to take full responsibility for what he and his brother did and, if captured alive, will have to live with that responsibility for the rest of his life. It isn't out of place to mourn a life that has so badly gone off the rails, especially when you read the descriptions by friends and classmates of a happy college student that was doing well with his studies.

Yes, this. This kid is so damned young, and his life is now effectively over. It's...unnerving...to see someone so young flush his life away in such a horrible fashion. I can't help but notice that he could be my own kid, smack in between my 21 and 17 year-old Monsters, and it just makes me terribly sad for everyone involved.
posted by MissySedai at 11:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

stonepharisee: "He's a kid. That's partly why it hurts us."

An American kid, to boot.
posted by chavenet at 11:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Immigration and integration experiences are different for everyone. I have met people's grandparents who came to America in the 50's and didn't know any English and cared little about learning any, conversely I have met people who were genuinely enjoying studying for their citizenship test.

Some people consider themselves American right-away, some never. It really comes down to "self-identification," and it doesn't seem like we will get a clear picture of that now.
posted by rosswald at 11:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Ericb: Indeed, that is a great story. Coworker in question a good dude and I'm really glad he's safe. Patch editors in general doing an amazing job in Boston the last few days.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If I'm placing a bet, it goes on "he assimilated just fine but was also extremely close to his brother." I mean, who's more likely to be the leader - the younger all-American kid or the elder brother who talks publicly about not liking Americans and who just spent six months in the homeland where "his people" (as it were) are basically whipping boys for an entire country?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I was thinking - what if he like killed a cop silently and donned his clothes and either went into a house or escaped while in uniform? (I doubt that would happen, it seems so movielike, but since we're already talking Murakami fantasticism, may as well posit that idea).
posted by symbioid at 11:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Nate Bell sure is getting some "Boston love" on the comments to that Facebook non-apology. Hoo, boy!
posted by AwkwardPause at 11:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Dzokhar Tsarnaev is the same age as my son, born within days of each other. I would like to say something about how impulsive and immature young men this age can be, but I was also once the mother of a beautiful eight year old boy.
posted by readery at 11:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [40 favorites]

Maybe he flirted with radical Islam. Maybe his brother got him into this. Maybe, maybe, maybe. But he's a kid who has had a hard life and made some massively stupid and horribly destructive choices. But I can't see how you can look at what we know of him and think "yep, this kid's just bad."

Well, he's a Muslim. That's all one has to say in this country, and it's a hell of a lot easier for Americans to believe that evil is this thing that exists only in Muslims than to believe that our culture of violence and exclusion could possibly have something to do with it.

The infotainment media plays along for ratings, we play along because we get to feel good and patriotic for punishing the evildoers, and the government plays along so they don't have to do anything meaningful besides accept massive improvements to their security state while we gladly hand over every last freedom to be protected from what many countries deal with on a weekly basis. And the cycle continues.
posted by tripping daisy at 11:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm sure Islam's violent streak influenced the details

WHY
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"Patch Associate Regional Ad Director Al Wilson was detained by police after returning to his home in Watertown on Thursday night."

And? From the way the guy was driving around and then walking around ("300 yards") going back to his house, anyone is surprised that he got detained shortly by law enforcement to verify that he wasn't the guy they were looking for?

An "Officers, I'm trying to get back to my house over there, is there a problem I should be aware of?" would have avoided a lot of this it seems.
posted by mrbill at 11:51 AM on April 19, 2013

And/or mentally ill, of course.

Haven't seen any evidence to support that, yet.

Other than, y'know, planting bombs at a marathon then robbing a 7-11 and shooting a cop.
posted by axiom at 11:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

If I'm placing a bet, it goes on "he assimilated just fine but was also extremely close to his brother." I mean, who's more likely to be the leader - the younger all-American kid or the elder brother who talks publicly about not liking Americans and who just spent six months in the homeland where "his people" (as it were) are basically whipping boys for an entire country?

If he flew into Moscow and stayed there looking Chechen, I can't think that he'd have a great experience. I know plenty of Georgians given arbitrary 48 hour arrests and beatings in the past.
posted by jaduncan at 11:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'll be really interested to hear what the UMASS part of the investigation yields.

If they find a DVD of Four Lions I will shit my leg off.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Instead, we've two kids who grew up here and turned towards violence in much same manor as the Columbine shooters. As they graduated first, they selected their target from outside their school world, otherwise this looks like Columbine.

Except that at least one of them is still in school. And they apparently attacked random people they didn't know instead of say, coworkers or family members.
posted by Jahaza at 11:53 AM on April 19, 2013

Patch Employee Detained in Search for Bomb Suspect -- "Patch Associate Regional Ad Director Al Wilson was detained by police after returning to his home in Watertown on Thursday night."

That's the weirdest story. He's outside his house, in his car, seeing all this police activity, and he gets out of his car and starts to run back to his house. I would have been freaked out all to hell, but starting to run anywhere in the situation he describes just seems like the worst possible idea.
posted by OmieWise at 11:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile Grassley is using this as an opportunity to take shots at immigration reform. As if more stringent background checks on an 9 year old and a 16 year old would have prevented all this.
posted by axiom at 11:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

By casting a person as evil, you refuse to acknowledge your common humanity with him.

This is not at all true in classical Christian conceptions of good and evil.
posted by Jahaza at 11:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

This is not at all true in classical Christian conceptions of good and evil.

Presumably there is more than one way to think about good and evil.
posted by scody at 11:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

As much as it hurts my heart, nineteen year olds are more than capable of full blown adult evil.
For that matter, please remember that eighteen and nineteen year olds are quite old enough and frequently are soldiers. Just because for most of us this age seems incredibly young, in point of fact....well, old enough to know better than this.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Video from one of his high school buddies, a co-op at the boston globe.
posted by jenkinsEar at 11:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"Haven't seen any evidence to support that, yet."

It's the Foucault complaint that everyone who breaks fundamental social rules will be seen as mentally ill. The idea that a sane person detonated bombs at the marathon is too ugly to address easily (and raises a lot of "what is sane?" questions).
posted by klangklangston at 11:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

BREAKING: Suspect went to same school as Ben Affleck. Courses offered in modern dance.
posted by Damienmce at 11:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

And/or mentally ill, of course.

Haven't seen any evidence to support that, yet.

Other than, y'know, planting bombs at a marathon then robbing a 7-11 and shooting a cop.

Can we drop this? People with mental illnesses are disproportionately more likely to be victims of violence than its perpetrators.
posted by Jilder at 11:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

But I can't see how you can look at what we know of him and think "yep, this kid's just bad."

Probably has something to do with all that murder.
posted by spaltavian at 11:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

I'm a little behind on comments, but can someone let me know if there is genuine concern for NYC at the moment?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:57 AM on April 19, 2013

By casting a person as evil, you refuse to acknowledge your common humanity with him.

This is not at all true in classical Christian conceptions of good and evil.

No, but it does seem to be true in the worldview that takes as axiomatic that making negative value judgements about someone who has done something bad is somehow always the wrong thing to do.
posted by OmieWise at 11:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Courses offered in modern dance.

The horror!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Other than, y'know, planting bombs at a marathon then robbing a 7-11 and shooting a cop.

I think assuming those actions are projections of his mental illness, rather than the moral choices of a deeply misguided -- even evil -- person, dehumanizes the suspect... and of course unnecessarily stigmatizes the mentally ill.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

Courses offered in modern dance.

Well, there's your motive right there.
posted by papercake at 11:59 AM on April 19, 2013

"This is not at all true in classical Christian conceptions of good and evil."

The Christian tradition does have some strong Manichaean currents in it.
posted by klangklangston at 11:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

For that matter, please remember that eighteen and nineteen year olds are quite old enough and frequently are soldiers. Just because for most of us this age seems incredibly young, in point of fact....well, old enough to know better than this.

One might conclude instead that using 18 and 19 year olds as soldiers is perhaps not the greatest thing ever. It's the standard international law has agreed on, but I think there's plenty of reason to think it's not the greatest choice.
posted by hoyland at 11:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

An "Officers, I'm trying to get back to my house over there, is there a problem I should be aware of?" would have avoided a lot of this it seems.

He did tell the officer he was near his house:

asked if I could see my house. I told him I could see my street and the next door neighbor's. He told me it was very dangerous and that many cops were looking to "shoot someone."

I don't find it odd he was stopped given the situation. I do have reservations about what the officer told him and how he was told to run back to his house without escort (raising the risk that he would be stopped again by officers who didn't know who he was).
posted by audi alteram partem at 11:59 AM on April 19, 2013

The cover of next week's New Yorker is both powerful and beautiful.
posted by Wordshore at 12:00 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Probably has something to do with all that murder.

As everyone knows, murder is a completely rational choice that healthy people with good jobs, great opportunities, easy access to health care and safe homes make all the damn time.
posted by tripping daisy at 12:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"I think assuming those actions are projections of his mental illness, rather than the moral choices of a deeply misguided -- even evil -- person, dehumanizes the suspect... and of course unnecessarily stigmatizes the mentally ill.

You might get a kick out of Madness and Civilization. It's one of the only Foucault books I read all the way though, though I'm not going to pretend that I understood it all or that it was an easy read. (Part of a college Existentialism class.)
posted by klangklangston at 12:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

The Christian tradition does have some strong Manichaean currents in it.

Well, yes, but Manichaeanism is a Christian heresy (i.e. outside the classical Christian conception of good and evil), for pretty much this very reason. Philosophers/Theologians like Augustine sought to find a way to recognize evil in the actions of man without externalizing it by positing an uncontrolled evil force equal to the good in the world.
posted by Jahaza at 12:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

"As everyone knows, murder is a completely rational choice that healthy people with good jobs, great opportunities, easy access to health care and safe homes make all the damn time."

Yeah, actually, they do, with surprising regularity. Making it about a "rational choice" is getting into dubious territory, but trying to frame it all as the revenge of the dispossessed is tenuous.
posted by klangklangston at 12:03 PM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

No, roomthreeseventeen, no NYC threat. The only angle local news here is covering is the questioning of the suspects' sister in New Jersey.
posted by keever at 12:03 PM on April 19, 2013

As much as it hurts my heart, nineteen year olds are more than capable of full blown adult evil.

Well, I'm not sure if anyone's arguing against the fact that the act was evil.
posted by griphus at 12:03 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Boston Globe reporter Jenn Abelson spoke to their cousin in Dagestan who claimed the younger brother is an innocent and that the older brother was a gangster and had dealt drugs. He told her that he'd warned the younger brother about the older brother many times.

Its interesting. I hope we learn more in the days to come. I have a lot of counsins myself, who have varying degress of knowledge about me. Maybe this is a cousin they regularly communicated with and met on their trips back to Russia, or maybe not.
posted by Area Man at 12:03 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

For those worried about the "lockdown" - people are coming and going (albeit with lesser frequency) in Back Bay. No one is being stopped from doing so.

(We're also nowhere near the manhunt area, which helps.)
posted by sonika at 12:04 PM on April 19, 2013

I think the original plan was to chill out, and play it cool. Once they realized the gig was up, they tried to split town - but they needed cash and road beers first.

More than anything, this doesn't seem to have been planned that well - though they've done an impressive job of avoiding capture so far.

The Father told media the boys were planning on going back to Russia in a few days. Their aunt was supposed to fly back on the 24. Perhaps they would have been going together.

I sorta wonder if that was the original getaway plan - do some chaos, have a big fuck you to the US and set sail for Russia, with love.

Seems crazy to me, but it seems to line up I guess - assuming what the father said was true.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:04 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I am bearish on the likelihood that we will settle once and for all the questions of either the nature of good and evil or of the meaning and scope of mental illness right here and now. Maybe consider holding off on that stuff a bit for now in here?
posted by cortex at 12:05 PM on April 19, 2013 [26 favorites]

Not a linguist, but Robin Young's nephew, who characterized Dzokhar as a close friend from high school, consistently pronounced the name "Joe-har". His NPR interlocutor pronounced it "Joe-kar". The young man did not correct the elder.

Holy shit. The Boston marathon bombing was perpetrated by the Joker, who is still at large. I think this can only end in a strange gun fight in a chemical plant, with a body never recovered.
posted by kaibutsu at 12:06 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

"Philosophers/Theologians like Augustine sought to find a way to recognize evil in the actions of man without externalizing it by positing an uncontrolled evil force equal to the good in the world."

Interestingly, Augustine was a Manichaean before he converted to Christianity.
posted by klangklangston at 12:06 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

As everyone knows, murder is a completely rational choice that healthy people with good jobs, great opportunities, easy access to health care and safe homes make all the damn time.

I'm hoping there's some hamburger there, tripping daises, because generally pleading insanity is not a very useful tactic in murder defenses. Something like 74% failure rate. So generally, as far as a jury of peers is concerned, the vast majority of convicted murderers are sane, rational people, making rational decisions. Just not good ones, or empathetic ones, or kind ones.
posted by Jilder at 12:07 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I do have reservations about what the officer told him and how he was told to run back to his house without escort

I have been detained by police a few times in my youth, not for illegal activities so much as being just a dumb teen. I've seen similar intimidation tactics, as I was lying face down on the pavement, a cop saying "It's a good thing the K9 unit a block up didn't find you, they would have put the dogs on you." or "We were ordered to shoot first and ask questions later." Ridiculous things to say to kids carrying Slurpees (or so I would have thought until about a year ago.)

Lies aside, the purpose is clearly to wake you up, get the adrenaline running and put the fear of near death in you. I bet that reporter ran faster than he's run in his adult life and was out of the way of the real activity quickly.
posted by chemoboy at 12:07 PM on April 19, 2013

Yep, I thought about that earlier, wondering what effect it would have on a kid to grow up here with a name that can be pronounced as "Joker."
posted by limeonaire at 12:07 PM on April 19, 2013

"I think this can only end in a strange gun fight in a chemical plant, with a body never recovered."

Too bad there's no way to link him to West, Texas.
posted by klangklangston at 12:07 PM on April 19, 2013

klangklangston: ""This could be said of anyone that commits crimes like this."

The general gist of any true crime police book, Homicide by David Simon especially, is that cops catch criminals mainly because criminals are dumb. Like, #1 reason by a length."

Also that there are a lot more cops.
posted by chavenet at 12:08 PM on April 19, 2013

Bruins game scheduled for tonight has been postponed.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:08 PM on April 19, 2013

Boston Globe reporter Jenn Abelson spoke to their cousin in Dagestan who claimed the younger brother is an innocent and that the older brother was a gangster and had dealt drugs. He told her that he'd warned the younger brother about the older brother many times.

If this is true, it does start to feel potentially like a variation on the Columbine/Beltway Sniper folie-à-deux scenario (Harris : Klebold :: Muhammed : Malvo).
posted by scody at 12:08 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

As everyone knows, murder is a completely rational choice that healthy people with good jobs, great opportunities, easy access to health care and safe homes make all the damn time.

Uh? I'm not sure what you are saying here. That murder is a rational choice for poor people with no health insurance? That irrational always = mental illness? Either way, it doesn't make much sense.
posted by murfed13 at 12:08 PM on April 19, 2013

It's like everyone is in full freak-out mode.

That's kind of how I'm feeling, and I'm not even in the US right now. I mean, obviously, I'm not afraid that I'm about to be bombed, but this whole week has just got me completely emotionally exhausted and on edge. The Onion is absolutely bang on with their Jesus, This Week story.

I can't remember who it was, but someone once described the guy at the lower left corner of Action Comics #1 as being a near perfect representation of the mindset of contemporary life. A dude just flipping out in a sort of "Now this?!" kind of way.

For me, it's probably more like Ray Pettibon's cover for the original Nervous Breakdown EP by Black Flag. Specifically the guy with his dukes up who just doesn't seem to give a shit anymore. That, or this gif from The Emperor's New Groove.


Although, I have to say, I'm kind of digging Uncle Ruslan's approach to the whole matter, as bad as I feel for the man.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:10 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

I'm hoping there's some hamburger there, tripping daises, because generally pleading insanity is not a very useful tactic in murder defenses. Something like 74% failure rate. So generally, as far as a jury of peers is concerned, the vast majority of murders are committed by sane, rational people, making rational decisions. Just not good ones, or empathetic ones, or kind ones.

I'm pretty sure that the decision to do something being rational is not a prerequisite for being criminally culpable. Being able to make a rational decision, yes, but not having made one.
posted by hoyland at 12:10 PM on April 19, 2013

Bruins game scheduled for tonight has been postponed.

The Red Sox have also posted on FaceBook that their home game has been postponed.
posted by Jahaza at 12:11 PM on April 19, 2013

So I decided to read some comments on some the articles on various news sites. The Canadian ones are filled with just as many inane and ignorant comments as all the US ones I've browsed.

I came back here.

I'm just going to stay here until this is over.

Thank you Metafilter for being an oasis of the 'not stupid'.
posted by Jalliah at 12:11 PM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

As everyone knows, murder is a completely rational choice that healthy people with good jobs, great opportunities, easy access to health care and safe homes make all the damn time.

I fail to see any irony in this statement.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:11 PM on April 19, 2013

By casting a person as evil, you refuse to acknowledge your common humanity with him.

There's really no content here; just abstractions and question begging. "Evil" has nothing to with humanity or lack there of, and the meaning or importance of said "humanity" is an irrelevant philosophical exercise on the part of the speaker.

The people who were murdered are the tragic element to this story. The ultimate fate of this alleged murderer is not a tragedy (unless he's innocent) , and my lack of "community" or empathy with him says nothing about my "humanity" or his.

I hope he's captured, gets a fair trial, and if convicted, goes to prison for the rest of his life. I don't believe in souls; unless one does there is no such thing as "common humanity" aside from DNA and the social contract. Setting off bombs at marathons breaks said contract.

As everyone knows, murder is a completely rational choice that healthy people with good jobs, great opportunities, easy access to health care and safe homes make all the damn time.

Does imagining that no one is responsible for their actions make things easier for you to process? Because the idea that this person had no choice really leads to the idea that everyone is a blackbox ticking time bomb. Does that world really seem rosier to you?

The fact of the matter is that people without the challenges you mention do horrible things all the time and most people with all those challenges don't. He's not a p-zombie. He's possibly mentally disturbed to the point that he can't make real decisions, but he's more likely a murderous asshole who's actions are tenuously connected to grievances that may or may not have any legitimacy.
posted by spaltavian at 12:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

It's like everyone is in full freak-out mode.

I had to leave a musical at intermission last night because in the middle of the first act they had a fake gunshot sound coming from the back of the theatre that could not be anticipated. I had an awful panic attack.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:12 PM on April 19, 2013

Thank you Metafilter for being an oasis of the 'not stupid'.

Don't worry, you arrived just in time for the "are all killers mentally ill or not?" portion of the thread.
posted by dry white toast at 12:13 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

Thank you Metafilter for being an oasis of the 'not stupid'.

Metafilter: your bright star in a dim galaxy since 1999.
posted by shothotbot at 12:13 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

I think that if any of the more experienced terror networks had been involved in this, we'd be looking at a lot more bodies, including the two brothers. But little of what's been revealed so far about the brothers seems inconsistent with Atran's ideas that terrorists are ordinary people with certain ideas about justice who get involved in social networks that reinforce those ideas. The 2005 London attack seems more relevant to me than Columbine at this time.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:14 PM on April 19, 2013

I have never been more thankful to have a non touch Kindle 3G than I have today. Even though the web browser is primitive, it does great with text-based sites like MeFi. So I could read the thread on my commute without draining my phone or draining my data usage.
posted by spinifex23 at 12:14 PM on April 19, 2013

"Does imagining that no one is responsible for their actions make things easier for you to process? Because the idea that this person had no choice really leads to the idea that everyone is a blackbox ticking time bomb. Does that world really seem rosier to you?"

You can argue a lack of free will/determinism without making everyone a black box ticking time bomb, but still doing real damage to the concept of responsibility.

Pretty sure that won't be a popular interpretation, but hey.
posted by klangklangston at 12:14 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I haven't been following this *terribly* closely, but has any sort of motive been established?

The number of people who are reporting that the brothers seemed "pretty normal" is alarming. I'm not hopping on any conspiracy theory bandwagons, but... the guys were planning a mass murder while simultaneously living out seemingly normal lives? That doesn't add up.
posted by schmod at 12:16 PM on April 19, 2013

Really? I'd think that today would be one of those days where getting high and staying in is about the perfect response.
posted by klangklangston at 12:16 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Lies aside, the purpose is clearly to wake you up, get the adrenaline running and put the fear of near death in you. I bet that reporter ran faster than he's run in his adult life and was out of the way of the real activity quickly.

That may be a purpose, but it certainly isn't the only reason why LEOs may act this way and certainly not the only effect. Given the history of police excessive force, especially after a fellow office has been shot or killed, those "lies" may read to some more as threats or at least not entirely unlikely predictions of what could happen. For example, the recent shooting of civilians in the Dorner case.

If the goal is to clear a subject and get him to his house quickly, I think that can be done without the police raising the specter of wanting to "shoot someone."
posted by audi alteram partem at 12:16 PM on April 19, 2013

It's discomfiting to me, for reasons I can't quite articulate, that the suspects are so frequently referred to as "these kids" or "these boys."

They are both men. Adults. Fully responsible for their actions. No?
posted by argonauta at 12:17 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Flunkie, that comment you are responding to is from two hours ago and has been discussed to death.

Just got to this response, which was written an hour ago, now. I am officially catching up!
posted by Flunkie at 12:17 PM on April 19, 2013

"I haven't been following this *terribly* closely, but has any sort of motive been established? "

I Don't Like Mondays.
posted by klangklangston at 12:17 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Really? I'd think that today would be one of those days where getting high and staying in is about the perfect response.

I think angrycat was talking about the moment when the door-to-door search gets to your place.
posted by dry white toast at 12:17 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The number of people who are reporting that the brothers seemed "pretty normal" is alarming. I'm not hopping on any conspiracy theory bandwagons, but... the guys were planning a mass murder while simultaneously living out seemingly normal lives? That doesn't add up.

Really? I thought "they seemed so normal" was so common as to be cliched after things like this.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:17 PM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

A reporter on WBUR just tried to describe the Soviet-era policy of subverting nationalism in the republics by resettling other ethnicities as "they tried to make it more of a melting pot."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:18 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

New York Road Runners new security policy for this weekend, for those who are local and might be interested:

Race-day registration, T-shirt pickup, and baggage drop-off will be located inside Rumsey Playfield. Everyone who enters Rumsey Playfield will be subject to a security screening.

We strongly encourage you not to bring a bag to Central Park. However, if you’re registering or picking up your race materials on race day and bring a bag, you will be given a clear bag at the entrance to Rumsey Playfield. You must transfer the contents of your own bag into the clear bag before you proceed to the registration tent. Any unattended bags will be confiscated by NYPD and could cause an interruption to the day’s events.

There will be no trash cans in the race vicinity this weekend. We encourage you to hand your trash to our volunteers and staff members.

Toilets along the course will be located only at mile 2. Kids’ Races will start on West Drive (running east on the 72nd Street Transverse) and end at the same finish line as the adult race.

Due to these changes, Kids’ Races will now start a half-hour later at 9:30 a.m.

NYRR and the NYPD reserve the right to search any bag at any time, both within and outside the baggage area.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:18 PM on April 19, 2013

I've heard people report that the younger brother was "normal" whereas the older had some trouble. But it is difficult to make any connections or draw any conclusions at this time, as we are also getting conflicting reports of their origins and lifestyles.
posted by CancerMan at 12:18 PM on April 19, 2013

the guys were planning a mass murder while simultaneously living out seemingly normal lives? That doesn't add up.

Did you expect them to live in a skull-shaped fortress on a forbidden island?
posted by oulipian at 12:18 PM on April 19, 2013 [48 favorites]

I am a Canadian watching this very much from the outside (I've been glued to WHDH on and off for the last 4 hours) I'm wondering - is there any precedent for such a massive, intense manhunt in the USA? I'm a bit nervous to admit to Americans that when I turned on the news this morning, I thought "Wow, this is insane overkill." And now that I know about an officer killed and grenades/bombs being thrown during a fire fight, I pretty much get it. But I am still wondering if a pursuit of dangerous suspects quite like this has ever happened before? What does this mean for future pursuits? (Please, let this question be 'not stupid').
posted by kitcat at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think these dumbasses thought "hey ... Big crowd ... We can make some bombs and leave them there ... Split the scene and get some lulz" ... And were too naive and unsophisticated to realize they WOULD be caught. They thought: Big crowd = anonymity = impunity.

They didn't anticipate being identified.

When their pictures were suddenly EVERYWHERE, they could trust no one, not friends, not family, not neighbors, all of whom would have seen the pics.

So they were desperate and, lacking resources, felt they had to commit a robbery to get money to flee.

But they didn't know how to commit a robbery.

I had a feeling the release of the pics would flush them put quickly. The logistics of survival under these circumstances is virtually impossible.
posted by Unified Theory at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

I haven't been following this *terribly* closely, but has any sort of motive been established?

The number of people who are reporting that the brothers seemed "pretty normal" is alarming. I'm not hopping on any conspiracy theory bandwagons, but... the guys were planning a mass murder while simultaneously living out seemingly normal lives? That doesn't add up.

No nothing has been established. Just tons of speculation.
posted by Jalliah at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2013

Really? I'd think that today would be one of those days where getting high and staying in is about the perfect response.

Yeah, but you can't get high until they search your house. Or you could, but the paranoia would ruin it.
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

A reporter on WBUR just tried to describe the Soviet-era policy of subverting nationalism in the republics by resettling other ethnicities as "they tried to make it more of a melting pot.

¯\(°_o)/¯
posted by griphus at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

"I think angrycat was talking about the moment when the door-to-door search gets to your place."

I'd hope that the BPD would be pretty understanding today.
posted by klangklangston at 12:19 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Find your Boston Bomber name by taking the first name of an innocent man and the second name of an innocent man and posting it on reddit— dominic (@casiotone) April 19, 2013

posted by showbiz_liz at 12:21 PM on April 19, 2013 [44 favorites]

Possession of less than one ounce of marijuana is decriminalized in Mass. No biggie.
posted by murfed13 at 12:21 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Jalliah: "No nothing has been established. Just tons of speculation."

Absolute bollocks, really. Hours and hours of "we don't want to speculate here but we can't discount SOME AMAZINGLY RIDICULOUS THEORY blah blah Al Quaeda blah blah radicalization blah blah Kyrgyzstan and of course this.
posted by chavenet at 12:21 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think BPD will have bigger concerns than a few roaches and bongs.
posted by Mister_A at 12:21 PM on April 19, 2013

Also, I think they're kind of fucking busy right now!
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013

the guys were planning a mass murder while simultaneously living out seemingly normal lives? That doesn't add up.

This occurred in Columbine and other mass killing events. No reason why it couldn't have happened. I'm not arguing that the people who did the Bostom bombings didn't have mess of bad wiring in their heads, either through genetics or circumstance.

But it's common for these sorts of killers to be appear non threatening and model citizens even as they're plotting, over long stretches of time, to kill people.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

And even if they find a grow op, that's the sort of evidence a judge would toss tuit de suite.
posted by klangklangston at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013

Decriminalized. Smoke it if you got it beleaguered Massachussetsites!
posted by jessamyn at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013 [25 favorites]

I had to leave a musical at intermission last night because in the middle of the first act they had a fake gunshot sound coming from the back of the theatre that could not be anticipated. I had an awful panic attack.


I know how that feels. On 9/11 I was asleep in my apartment (more or less) down the street from the Pentagon. I had no idea what was going on until a loud noise woke me up (the impact of the airplane) and I heard more firetrucks than I've ever heard in my life screaming at full speed down the street.

Two months later I was buying a birthday present for my nephew in a Toys R Us. I picked up a cool looking firetruck that had real lights and sirens. The instant I turned the lights and sirens all that fear came flooding back. I put the toy fire truck down and walked out of the store, shaken.

I still don't like the sound of fire trucks.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

kitcat, I think this is actually saner than what recently went on in LA during the hunt for Christopher Dorner. I think it's absolutely unprecedented in Boston, though.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013

murfed13: "Possession of less than one ounce of marijuana is decriminalized in Mass. No biggie."

No baggie, amirite?
posted by chavenet at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013

He put a bomb down and pointed it at children watching (for all he knew) their dad finishing a marathon and looked another victim directly in the eyes

It was the older brother who made eye contact with a victim at the first bomb site, I believe, which isn't to say the 19 year old wasn't equally capable at that time. He's since fired on police and driven over his wounded brother, evading capture. If he was bad Monday, he's more dangerously bad today. He's now in fear.


FWIW, they have a sister in the US as well

I read he has two sisters, both in their early twenties and both living in New York. It seems reasonable he'd be making his way to them. Odd that the media haven't been plaguing the sisters' homes seeking interviews and gross patriotism checks.
posted by de at 12:22 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I personally hope that the implications for "future manhunts" is moot because I wouldn't wish this on any city, not even a city built out of turds in hell.
posted by sonika at 12:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Boy, if we just keep at it, I'm sure this is the thread where we'll sort out all of our philosophical differences and finally nail down that pesky "universally appropriate ratio of empathy to scorn" problem. Hell, if we put a pot of coffee on we can probably sort out a hard-and-fast definition of evil and really take the bugs out of long-distance armchair psychoanalysis of complete ciphers before dinner.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

For me the point is that by saying things like "monster" or to a lesser extent "evil" or to a much lesser extent (and only in the wrong context) "murderous asshole" (which I think I might agree with in this context) you're separating yourself from an analysis of why the world works the way it does.

Othering people gives comfort and is an effective cleansing action, but it also solidifies false boundaries between what's sane and insane, rational and irrational, your concerns and what other people think about, etc.
posted by tychotesla at 12:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

If the goal is to clear a subject and get him to his house quickly, I think that can be done without the police raising the specter of wanting to "shoot someone."

Yes, I agree, it seems like the easiest way would be to escort him to his house. But this was at a very chaotic time and it's pretty peaceful right now on the blue. I was just saying that sometimes fear is a good motivator for keeping people alive. It may be mean, or cruel, to use it, but it sure beats the heartache of everyone involved if an innocent gets killed in something like this.
posted by chemoboy at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I read he has two sisters, both in their early twenties and both living in New York. It seems reasonable he'd be making his way to them. Odd that the media haven't been plaguing the sisters' homes seeking interviews and gross patriotism checks.

That would be a really dick move unless they were involved somehow.
posted by sweetkid at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

When their pictures were suddenly EVERYWHERE, they could trust no one, not friends, not family, not neighbors, all of whom would have seen the pics.

I keep thinking of the last act of the movie "Heat," when they are fleeing the police, and that claustrophobic feeling of the cops closing in, especially after that gun fight in the open street. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrioYLx-7Cs
posted by wenestvedt at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2013

@kitkat - the only precedent I can think of is when we had the DC Sniper(s) running around the area shooting people. What's going on in Boston right now seems to be a level past that though.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2013

According to ABC, one sister lives in New Jersey, not NY, and her computer has been removed by police.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I will toss out a motive - vis a vie the 'DC Snipers'.
Create mass chaos, enough so that you have peoples attention and are taken seriously.
Then ask for a mound of cash.
Aside from the fact they seem to have not thought this out, they were well on their way to sending up a note that would have gotten significant attention. What did the DC sniper(s) want - 10 million?

They have been called losers by a family member, not sure exactly what that means but if they are uncaring/unfeeling twits with bomb skills and thinking the world owes them a better life - well, after a few beers they are on their way.
posted by fluffycreature at 12:24 PM on April 19, 2013

gross patriotism checks.

I missed it - what were they asking the uncle, anyway?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:26 PM on April 19, 2013

Yeah but if you're high and playing video games and there's a knock on the door

I'm really glad my neighbor, who spends approximately 10 hours a day getting super high and playing Call of Duty really loudly doesn't live in Watertown; I don't think that would be a good way to spend today.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:26 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The cover of next week's New Yorker is both powerful and beautiful.

Am I supposed to be seeing something in the shape of the shadow?
posted by Windigo at 12:27 PM on April 19, 2013

I think once my daughter goes to sleep I am going to play Katamari Forever for the rest of the night.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:28 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

I missed it - what were they asking the uncle, anyway?

"How do you feel about America?", essentially
posted by alligatorman at 12:28 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

My personal speculation is something along the lines of 'disaffected youth' for whatever reasons that got melded into bigger ideas of becoming part of something bigger and fighting 'the big evil' like heroes.

Doesn't specifics don't matter so much. It's 'my life, things are shitty for whatever reason', I'll find someone or something else to blame or explain why and the reason is much bigger then I am, now I'm going to fight back against this 'thing' and be part of a bigger struggle.
posted by Jalliah at 12:28 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

"Am I supposed to be seeing something in the shape of the shadow?"

Darkness? Memento mori?
posted by klangklangston at 12:29 PM on April 19, 2013

Best thoughts to you and your family, Elem Penguin. Been beaming good vibes your way this morning. :)
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:29 PM on April 19, 2013

That reddit live update post raises more questions than it answers. Rocket in the basement? Why are the dogs barking? What kind if food did OP go to get? I would suggest subway, I could go for subway right about now.
posted by Ad hominem at 12:30 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

There seem to be a lot of guys wandering around the area with backpacks wearing hoodies.
posted by sammyo at 12:30 PM on April 19, 2013

Did you expect them to live in a skull-shaped fortress on a forbidden island?

I think a lot of this scrabbling speculation around their ethnicity, religion, affiliations and their mental health has been a constant search for "other". The notion that the guy next door could be plotting something as bad or worse while mowing the lawn and taking his kids to soccer without batting an eyelid is just too much to swallow.

I don't think it's a co-incidence that the Elvis Impersonator Ricin Guy has not roused nearly as much fear. Clearly that's what a mad poisoner looks like - writes whacked out websites and trots about dressed up as a man sixty years dead. But a teenager of 19 who has been described as fairly sociable and normal...that doesn't play right. He has to be an Other, somehow. Because if he's are no different than Us, well, that leads to some uncomfortable questions about whether or not under different circumstances we'd be capable of such horror, if pushed by the vicissitudes of fate. By making the bomber Other, we protect ourselves from their taint.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if, for example, the younger brother didn't have a concrete idea of how much damage those explosions would cause. Maybe he thought there was some sort of gas in them, or cows blood (for that Carrie look) or fucking confetti. We don't know that he had anything to do with the construction at all, so for all we know he may have thought there was something that would knock everyone out. For all we know he didn't know there were bombs in there at all. Maybe it was his idea, trying to appease some hunger in his less "normal" brother. Maybe there's someone else involved who masterminded it. Who knows?

But if we make them into fairy tale monsters and just assume that it's because that's what monsters do, we lose the opportunity to learn what motivated them, and in that we lose important information about how we can spot and prevent these things from happening again.
posted by Jilder at 12:32 PM on April 19, 2013 [62 favorites]

It's a college town. Every guy is issued a backpack and hoodie at orientation.
posted by klangklangston at 12:32 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Oh, and not sure if this has been mentioned here or not, but AMTRAK service has been suspended between Boston and NY according to Univision News.

@UniNoticias: Servicio AMTRAK entre Boston y Nueva York suspendido por los momentos, según @Boston_Police

posted by Celsius1414 at 12:32 PM on April 19, 2013

sammyo: There seem to be a lot of guys wandering around the area with backpacks wearing hoodies.

There are more than 50 colleges and universities in the area. That's your answer.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:33 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Nate Bell has apologized for the timing of his tweet.

Apology not accepted. Fuck you!
posted by ericb at 12:33 PM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]

Watching CBS just barely. Sorry, no link.

CBS' Bob Schieffer: "It's clear that these two brothers are jihadists of some sort."

Ugh.
posted by chemoboy at 12:35 PM on April 19, 2013

Has poor Sean Kelley from WCVB in Watertown gotten any sleep?
posted by maryr at 12:35 PM on April 19, 2013

I don't think it's a co-incidence that the Elvis Impersonator Ricin Guy has not roused nearly as much fear.

There's also the fact that he targeted politicians rather than random spectators lining a street. The degree to which one can imagine oneself as a victim certainly plays a crucial role in how much fear an attack causes.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 12:35 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

I don't think it's a co-incidence that the Elvis Impersonator Ricin Guy has not roused nearly as much fear. Clearly that's what a mad poisoner looks like - writes whacked out websites and trots about dressed up as a man sixty years dead.

Thirty-five years dead, thank you. I'm not that fucking old.
posted by Etrigan at 12:35 PM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

Apology not accepted. Fuck you!

Reading between the lines, he was sorry he tweeted it when he did. Expect him to tweet the same thing again a week from now.
posted by chemoboy at 12:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If Bell wants to apologize for the tweet, he should apologize for the actual tweet. Apologizing "for the timing" is a dickless cowardly waffling bullshit fauxpology and he is subsequently not-so-pleasantly invited to go fuck himself.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

What kind if food did OP go to get? I would suggest subway, I could go for subway right about now.

Subway's still closed. Buses too.
posted by maryr at 12:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Pierce's most recent name for Schieffer was "Scipio Africanus embed Bob Schieffer". :-)
posted by Eyebeams at 12:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

He is cowering with his twitter feed.
posted by Artw at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Rush Limbaugh suggests that America is crazy to let all 7 billion people immigrate to the US, anyway. I have to agree. We have enough American on American violence already. Let's reform immigration so that foreigners can't randomly kill other foreigners in The United States of America. I love my fellow citizens with their locked and loaded AR-15's. But, Russians with crock pots, not so much love.
posted by breadbox at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Am I supposed to be seeing something in the shape of the shadow?


Yes. The shadow forms the water around Boston. The pavement part matches the geography of Boston.
posted by Ghost Mode at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

I think a lot of this scrabbling speculation around their ethnicity, religion, affiliations and their mental health has been a constant search for "other". The notion that the guy next door could be plotting something as bad or worse while mowing the lawn and taking his kids to soccer without batting an eyelid is just too much to swallow.


Yeah I can see that. It's a lot easy if criminals look like criminals in some specific way and act in some specific way. A good many do.

Reality is a good many don't. Whether it's plotting something like this your general criminal activity people can be quite 'normal' and fit right in to whatever social groups they live within.

It is a scary thought.
posted by Jalliah at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2013

Whoa -- you guys also get a cell phone emergency alert from MEMA saying shelter still in effect? Didn't know my phone (nor MEMA) could do that...
posted by AwkwardPause at 12:38 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The NYTimes is reporting that UMass Dartmouth is being evacuated.
posted by inertia at 12:39 PM on April 19, 2013

Windingo:

Shadow
Boston
posted by Ghost Mode at 12:39 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

My preferred theory is that an evil alien super villain told them they had to do this or he would blow up the planet.

Otherwise... WHY. There's nothing "reassuring" to latch onto -- extremism, social isolation, mental illness. For god sakes, the kid said on twitter this summer that he wished he could apologize to kids he may have bullied when he was younger. I don't know that we will ever be able to sort out the whys, in the odd chance he's taken into custody alive.

(And what Jilder said).
posted by murfed13 at 12:39 PM on April 19, 2013

Great moments in journalism: CNN is now interviewing a non-English speaker in English.
posted by nicwolff at 12:40 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

I believe Dartmouth was evac'ed several hours ago.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on April 19, 2013

NYRR and the NYPD reserve the right to search any bag at any time, both within and outside the baggage area.

Umm... yeah... the NYCLU is gonna be all over that.
posted by Jahaza at 12:41 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

AwkwardPause, Sure did! Hearing my phone make the EBS noise was real comforting...
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:41 PM on April 19, 2013

CBS' Bob Schieffer: "It's clear that these two brothers are jihadists of some sort."

At this point no news media person should be starting any sentence with 'It's clear.' It's not clear. Not clear at all.
posted by sweetkid at 12:41 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Great moments in journalism: CNN is now interviewing a non-English speaker in English.


The trick is to ask the questions REALLY REALLY LOUDLY
posted by griphus at 12:41 PM on April 19, 2013 [25 favorites]

One of my favorite responses so far is Jim Dowd responds to the attack. Fuck yeah, Boston.

This small city produced both Stephen J Gould and Whitey Bulger. This place gave us Leonard Nimoy and Mark Wahlberg. Southie and Cambridge. Brookline and Brockton. This place will kick the screaming piss out of you, come up with a cure for having the screaming piss kicked out of you, give it to you for free, then win a Nobel prize for it and then use the medallion to break your knuckles.

posted by rmd1023 at 12:41 PM on April 19, 2013 [49 favorites]

Whoa -- you guys also get a cell phone emergency alert from MEMA saying shelter still in effect? Didn't know my phone (nor MEMA) could do that...

I've heard about this in the context of bushfires here...local telephone exchanges & cell towers apparently have the ability to broadcast calls to every known device in the area.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:41 PM on April 19, 2013

Great moments in journalism: CNN Releases Photos of 3 Obese Mexican Women Suspected in Boston Bombing.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:42 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Damn near shit my pants...
posted by AwkwardPause at 12:42 PM on April 19, 2013

"Rush Limbaugh suggests that America is crazy to let all 7 billion people immigrate to the US, anyway. I have to agree. We have enough American on American violence already. Let's reform immigration so that foreigners can't randomly kill other foreigners in The United States of America. "

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS
posted by klangklangston at 12:42 PM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

I think the "you don't know who you fucked with" stuff about Boston is a little weird now that we know these main suspects grew up here. They knew exactly who they were fucking with.

I mean Boston, fuck yeah, but...they were from Boston.
posted by sweetkid at 12:43 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Oh God WhiteSkull, I was so ready to believe that. You win again, Onion.
posted by WidgetAlley at 12:43 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS

I think it's spelled JERBS
posted by sweetkid at 12:43 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Breadbox: at least one of them became a citizen which means he's committing 'American on American' violence.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:44 PM on April 19, 2013

Whoa -- you guys also get a cell phone emergency alert from MEMA saying shelter still in effect? Didn't know my phone (nor MEMA) could do that...

I've heard about this in the context of bushfires here...local telephone exchanges & cell towers apparently have the ability to broadcast calls to every known device in the area.

I started getting them in Texas for Amber Alerts about a month ago. I've gotten four or five since then and it completely freaks me out every time.
posted by Dojie at 12:44 PM on April 19, 2013

I agree with a lot of what's beings said and I think the speculation is premature, but I'm not ready to completely disregard the possible influences of religion and nationalism. Those two types of ideologies have been potent motivating forces for many so I don't see why we would disregard their possible importance. Really, though, we just need to wait while journalists and law enforcement personnel gather information.

(Yeah, the emergency cell phone alert thing is weird. I got one earlier this year, but I now can't remember why. There must have been something happening in Minneapolis, but it wasn't anythign like this.)
posted by Area Man at 12:45 PM on April 19, 2013

Whoa -- you guys also get a cell phone emergency alert from MEMA saying shelter still in effect? Didn't know my phone (nor MEMA) could do that...

My fiance and I just had the same reaction - we don't even have MA / Boston area codes, so it must be something about actual proximity to the city...
posted by CharlieSue at 12:45 PM on April 19, 2013

Let's reform immigration so that foreigners can't randomly kill other foreigners in The United States of America. "

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS

klangklangston, sometimes I don't know whether to favorite or flag you. This is one of those moments.
posted by corb at 12:45 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

2004 profile of Tamerlan Tsarnaev in the Lowell, MA, newspaper, The Sun.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:46 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue and similar distasteful post 9-11 revenge language. I also think it's a weirdly childish reaction to an event like this.
posted by murfed13 at 12:46 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

so it must be something about actual proximity to the city...
Expecting erico to come and explain shortly
posted by shothotbot at 12:46 PM on April 19, 2013

"SAMHSA ‏@samhsagov Worry, confusion, frustration, or fear can be normal when sheltering in place. Call 1-800-985-5990 for Distress Helpline. #Watertown #Boston"

posted by Celsius1414 at 12:46 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

NYRR and the NYPD reserve the right to search any bag at any time, both within and outside the baggage area.

You can't reserve rights you don't have to begin with.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 12:46 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue and similar distateful post 9-11 revenge language. I also think it's a weirdly childish reaction to an event like this

I agree.
posted by sweetkid at 12:47 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

AwkwardPause: Damn near shit my pants...

The first time I got one of those alert messages, I leapt to my feet with such ferocity I scared the dogs so bad they wouldn't come out from under the bed for two days.

Dojie: I started getting them in Texas for Amber Alerts about a month ago. I've gotten four or five since then and it completely freaks me out every time.

You can turn off most of the alerts in the settings of the app for your phone. The only one you can't turn off is the "Presidential Emergency Alert" which, if you get that one you'll have much, much bigger problems to worry about.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:48 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Over the past three centuries we’ve taken on Imperial England, slavery and Krispy Kreeme. Note that given time, Boston wins every time.

Excellent.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:48 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

about actual proximity to the city...

Yeah, my friend in Winthrop didn't get it, so must be pretty targeted.
posted by AwkwardPause at 12:48 PM on April 19, 2013

ob1quixote: "The only one you can't turn off is the "Presidential Emergency Alert" which, if you get that one you'll have much, much bigger problems to worry about."

FEMA concentration camps, I assume.
posted by brundlefly at 12:49 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

My fiance and I just had the same reaction - we don't even have MA / Boston area codes, so it must be something about actual proximity to the city...

If it's on a cell phone, could they just localize the announcement to particular cells and every phone in those cells would receive it?
posted by OmieWise at 12:49 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The notion that the guy next door could be plotting something as bad or worse while mowing the lawn and taking his kids to soccer without batting an eyelid is just too much to swallow.

So not too long after I had bought my first house I woke up at around 3am and wandered downstairs to get myself a glass of diet green tea from the refigerator. As I was walking through the livingroom I saw someone pulling up in the street out front, through my french doors. Thinking it odd someone would be out there at this time of night I went and watched them park. A young guy got out, he looked North African to me, which wasn't unusual because we have a few families from that part of the world in my neighborhood.

Somehow the guy noticed me standing there in the dark, looked at me, and then went to his house on the corner. I turned and went back to bed.

The next morning I heard about how someone had shot at the Marine Corps Museum in the middle of the night. I wondered about the guy I had seen parking his car. I thought to myself "Nahh, he probably just works nights or something."

A few weeks later there was some kind of security incident near the Pentagon. I didn't work near there so I just drove off to work. Later that day I was walking through the hall at work where we had a TV running one of the cable news stations. I saw a helicopter shot of what looked just like the park next to my house. Then the camera panned up and I could see my house and my street.

So anyway it turned out that my neighbor, the guy I had seen parking his car after shooting up the Marine Corps Museum, was this guy.
posted by smoothvirus at 12:49 PM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

2004 profile of Tamerlan Tsarnaev in the Lowell, MA, newspaper, The Sun.

It's like The Fighter... but they brought Quentin Tarantino in on the rewrite.
posted by Jahaza at 12:49 PM on April 19, 2013

The NYTimes is reporting that UMass Dartmouth is being evacuated.

Oh hey that's one town over from where I am right now. Absolutely no weirdness here though. Boyfriend was going to come visit but he can't because of the lockdown-ish thing in Belmont/Watertown area. Wishing for a speedy resolution to this, for everyone.
posted by jessamyn at 12:49 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Hearing my phone make the EBS noise was real comforting

I freaked out a couple of days ago when mine (Nexus 4/CM10.1) did that for the monthly test. I'd never heard my phone make the EAS/EBS noise before. For an Ambert Alert last week it just used the normal text-message notification tone.
posted by mrbill at 12:50 PM on April 19, 2013

I think the "you don't know who you fucked with" stuff about Boston is a little weird

Not to mention, a teeny bit, ummm parochial?
posted by fullerine at 12:50 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

it must be something about actual proximity to the city...

It has to do with which cell towers you're connecting to, which corresponds to geographical proximity as cell phones will typically connect to the closest tower (exception: towers which are saturated with connections already will redirect handsets to other towers).
posted by bookdragoness at 12:50 PM on April 19, 2013

I agree with a lot of what's beings said and I think the speculation is premature, but I'm not ready to completely disregard the possible influences of religion and nationalism. Those two types of ideologies have been potent motivating forces for many so I don't see why we would disregard their possible importance. Really, though, we just need to wait while journalists and law enforcement personnel gather information.


I wouldn't discount it either, but if those did have influence I don't think it's necessarily the type of influence that many (not here) seem to be desiring. Like they're part of some big international foreign terror plot to attack our freedoms' sort of thing. Sadly I don't think a lot of people are capable or willing to try to understand that sort of difference.
posted by Jalliah at 12:51 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue and similar distateful post 9-11 revenge language.

C. S. Lewis Jr. says: "Don't Mess Around... With God's America!"
posted by scody at 12:51 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

2004 profile of Tamerlan Tsarnaev in the Lowell, MA, newspaper, The Sun.

Ugh.

"I like the USA," said Tsarnaev. "America has a lot of jobs. That's something Russia doesn't have. You have a chance to make money here if you are willing to work."

[snip]

Tsarnaev's first love is music. He studied music at a school in Russia and plays the piano and violin.
posted by wensink at 12:51 PM on April 19, 2013

Yeah but if you're high and playing video games and there's a knock on the door.

"Dave's not here."
posted by ericb at 12:51 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

CBS is reporting that the 7-11 holdup was unrelated to the bombing and may not have been perpetrated by either suspect.
posted by chemoboy at 12:52 PM on April 19, 2013

Also, CBS just moved on after that and no other mention was made to the source or what the deal was about all that.
posted by chemoboy at 12:53 PM on April 19, 2013

"I like the USA," said Tsarnaev. "America has a lot of jobs. That's something Russia doesn't have. You have a chance to make money here if you are willing to work."

Anyone else wondering if he found that a bit harder in recent years? Combine that with "he wanted to become an engineer" from the boxing photos and it starts to suggest a familiar story.
posted by knapah at 12:53 PM on April 19, 2013

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue and similar distateful post 9-11 revenge language.

Hm. I didn't think it rose to that level, but I think maybe I'm too close to the subject matter (having ties both to the wicked smart techie world and the Winter Hill Gang side of things).

Mostly I just found myself laughing quite literally out loud at some of the phrasing and descriptions of Boston's social landscape and the weird juxtapositions here. (and “Irish Alzheimer’s”- it’s when the only memories you have are grudges describes some of my relatives as they get older).

Sorry about that.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:53 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yeah the DON'T FUCK WITH BOSTON/AMERICA/etc. reaction is a little unnerving just because that sort of nativism is always there with certain people, but when there's a crisis involving a perpetrator who, in some way, somehow, isn't from here, it comes out in force and everyone pats each other on the back for being a badass and keeping the homeland safe from these not-us people, and, just, gross.
posted by griphus at 12:55 PM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

Here's my over the top theory... Both brothers are really close to their mother... She gets busted for shoplifting at Lords and Taylor and this combined with seething rage from the older brother causes the older brother to concoct a bomb plan... He then gets his brother involved either with or without the younger brother's support.

This is based on the mother's arrest and the proximity to a Lords and Taylor.
posted by drezdn at 12:55 PM on April 19, 2013

Anyone else wondering if he found that a bit harder in recent years? Combine that with "he wanted to become an engineer" from the boxing photos and it starts to suggest a familiar story.

Are there any other examples of Americans reacting similarly to the economic hardships of the last few years?
posted by BobbyVan at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2013

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue and similar distateful post 9-11 revenge language. I also think it's a weirdly childish reaction to an event like this

I'm guessing you're not from Boston? The "don't mess with us rhetoric" has been part of Boston's culture since as long as I can remember. You don't have to like it, but this isn't something new.
posted by oinopaponton at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Mostly I just found myself laughing quite literally out loud at some of the phrasing and descriptions of Boston's social landscape and the weird juxtapositions here. (and “Irish Alzheimer’s”- it’s when the only memories you have are grudges describes some of my relatives as they get older).

Totally agree there is a difference between this type of thing (which is closer to a coping mechanism through humor) and just the general "don't fuck with us" scorched earth stuff.
posted by murfed13 at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2013

You can also throw in a dash of religion into that story if you want. This action would be consistent with an intense newer convert.
posted by drezdn at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

fullerine Yes, it's definitely being "parochial" to be distressed over a manhunt for a mass-casualty bomber in the densely populated urban area in which one lives.

Similarly, I have a parochial worldview because I'm concerned over my girlfriend's fever when I *should* be worried about the explosion of HIV/AIDS in India.
posted by Ghost Mode at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

brundlefly: ob1quixote: "The only one you can't turn off is the "Presidential Emergency Alert" which, if you get that one you'll have much, much bigger problems to worry about."

FEMA concentration camps, I assume.

Heh. I was thinking more nuclear war or giant meteor.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:56 PM on April 19, 2013

drezdn: "This is based on the mother's arrest and the proximity to a Lords and Taylor."

Well that might be good enough proof for CNN. Will they give you a byline for that?
posted by caution live frogs at 12:57 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

NYT: "Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who remains on the run, was spotted on [the UMass Dartmouth] campus earlier this week, according to students at the school."

"I'm a stress free kind of guy", posted on his (alleged) Twitter feed the day after the bombing.

Just bizarre.
posted by seemoreglass at 12:57 PM on April 19, 2013

Decriminalized. Smoke it if you got it beleaguered Massachussetsites!

I wonder if the 420 Smoke Out on the Common is still on for tomorrow. If so, I bet it's going to have quite a large turnout after this week.
posted by ericb at 12:58 PM on April 19, 2013

Will they give you a byline for that?

No, they'll just say it came from a "source connected to the investigation."
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:58 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

CNN: thanks to caution live frogs we now have independent confirmation of earlier claims by drezdn of motivation being family grudge against lord + taylor.
posted by hoople at 12:58 PM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

Yeah, this isn't so much Toby Keith as an observation of the fact that Boston might as well have its state seal lovingly engraved on a massive chip the city collectively wears on its shoulder.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:58 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

I'm guessing you're not from Boston?

Not the city proper but close to it. Guess I missed the memo.
posted by murfed13 at 12:59 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If he evades until dark there are going to be an awful lot of very tired officers in the dark.
posted by sammyo at 12:59 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

What states and cities can be successfully messed with? So many claim that you can't mess with them that maybe it would be easier to work on things from that end.
posted by Area Man at 12:59 PM on April 19, 2013 [33 favorites]

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue and similar distateful post 9-11 revenge language. I also think it's a weirdly childish reaction to an event like this

It would also be failing to learn from history, again.

The Soviets failed to control Afghanistan, just like every other invader previously, but that didn't stop America from having its own attempt at failure.

The Russians have likewise had a shit of a time trying to control Chechens, resulting in lovely incidents like the Beslan school massacre, or bombings on the Moscow metro.

The "you don't know who you fucked with" rhetoric is particularly ironic when Americans rarely know who they're fucking with, going right down to where to even find them on a map. The ongoing debacle in Iraq is another shining example of not knowing the enemy from a bar of soap.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:00 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Are there any other examples of Americans reacting similarly to the economic hardships of the last few years?

2010 Austin Suicide Attack
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:00 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If he evades until dark there are going to be an awful lot of very tired officers in the dark.

They just did a shift change. Fresh people coming onto search now.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:00 PM on April 19, 2013

I was just saying that sometimes fear is a good motivator for keeping people alive. It may be mean, or cruel, to use it, but it sure beats the heartache of everyone involved if an innocent gets killed in something like this.

I understand this view and appreciate it, even if I'm not in complete agreement in this instance. I was just trying to raise the point that for the potential well-meaning purposes and good effects in using fear there are also potential bad purposes and effects in using fear, namely the relationship between institutional cultures that use fear to manipulate and the systemic problems in US policing regarding excessive force. Again, I understand the urgency of this situation and don't disagree with the officers stopping Wilson. I hope the current crisis will end soon without further injury and loss of life.
posted by audi alteram partem at 1:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

From what I understand, everyone is free to mess with Drain, Oregon.
posted by Ouisch at 1:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [20 favorites]

I'm guessing you're not from Boston? The "don't mess with us rhetoric" has been part of Boston's culture since as long as I can remember. You don't have to like it, but this isn't something new.

I'm from Brooklyn, and we have that here too, and if someone I knew who came here at the age of 9 committed a crime, I would be equally weirded out if the reaction was DON'T FUCK WITH BROOKLYN, FOREIGNER.
posted by griphus at 1:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Well, you certainly can't mess with Texas; but that's really about not being allowed to litter there.
posted by el io at 1:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

What states and cities can be successfully messed with?

My understanding is that its all right to mess with Detroit and Cleveland.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

David Schoenfeld, Tamerlan Tsarnaev Doctor, Describes Efforts To Revive Bombing Suspect.
posted by ericb at 1:02 PM on April 19, 2013

What the heck are Bostonians doing in these locked-down neighborhoods with their dogs that have to go outside to do their business...?
posted by dukes909 at 1:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

My fiance and I just had the same reaction - we don't even have MA / Boston area codes, so it must be something about actual proximity to the city...

Yeah, Chicago's been getting them the last few days because of the storms/flood alerts. One was at 4am the other night, and another one came yesterday afternoon. Quiet, open-floor office, and suddenly everyone's phone started blaring almost in tandem. Surreal.
posted by phunniemee at 1:02 PM on April 19, 2013

What states and cities can be successfully messed with? So many claim that you can't mess with them that maybe it would be easier to work on things from that end.

Savannah, Georgia surrendered to Sherman's March to the Seaand became a Christmas present to President Lincoln. However, we've sent thousands to early graves with our fried cooking, so be careful.

Now, bless your heart.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:03 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

What the heck are Bostonians doing in these locked-down neighborhoods with their dogs that have to go outside to do their business...?
posted by dukes909 at 9:02 PM on April 19 [+] [!]

A friend of mine in Watertown who has a dog and who also spent his morning with 4 heavily armed cops outside his front door said he spoke with one of the officers and he was provided with an armed escort into his front yard for his dog to do its business.

I suspect that is not scalable but it does seem to indicate that the officers are being reasonable about such needs.

(FWIW when I lived in the city and hurricane Irene was meant to hit, I figured the dog would just have to use my shower floor and had planned around that. Perhaps others have similar backup plans in mind in Boston right now.)
posted by olinerd at 1:04 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

griphus: it was posted on 4/17, well before their identities were known.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:04 PM on April 19, 2013

Slate: Photos From the Manhunt in Boston.
posted by ericb at 1:04 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm from Brooklyn, and we have that here too, and if someone I knew who came here at the age of 9 committed a crime, I would be equally weirded out if the reaction was DON'T FUCK WITH BROOKLYN, FOREIGNER.

That's great, but Boston is not Brooklyn, for better or for worse.
posted by oinopaponton at 1:04 PM on April 19, 2013

A friend of mine in Watertown who has a dog and who also spent his morning with 4 heavily armed cops outside his front door said he spoke with one of the officers and he was provided with an armed escort into his front yard for his dog to do its business.

Wow.
posted by sweetkid at 1:04 PM on April 19, 2013

Obviously, none of this is a joking matter, but the idea of a dog with armed guards to poop made me smile.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:05 PM on April 19, 2013 [21 favorites]

A friend of mine in Watertown who has a dog and who also spent his morning with 4 heavily armed cops outside his front door said he spoke with one of the officers and he was provided with an armed escort into his front yard for his dog to do its business.

THAT is how you generate good-will and cooperation for a manhunt, right there. Armed escorts for beloved puppers.
posted by WidgetAlley at 1:05 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

What states and cities can be successfully messed with?

If T-shirts are any indication, I guess you can mess with San Francisco?
posted by chemoboy at 1:06 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Some of radio chatter reflects those kinds of efforts ongoing. People needing to get places to attend to animals or service equipment, etc.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:06 PM on April 19, 2013

A friend of mine in Watertown who has a dog and who also spent his morning with 4 heavily armed cops outside his front door said he spoke with one of the officers and he was provided with an armed escort into his front yard for his dog to do its business.

THAT is how you generate good-will and cooperation for a manhunt, right there. Armed escorts for beloved puppers.

That escort was likely so that the dog walker would not be shot by twitchy law enforcement.
posted by srboisvert at 1:07 PM on April 19, 2013

This is based on the mother's arrest and the proximity to a Lords and Taylor.

It's funnier if you say it in John King's voice.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:08 PM on April 19, 2013

I don't think it's a co-incidence that the Elvis Impersonator Ricin Guy has not roused nearly as much fear. Clearly that's what a mad poisoner looks like - writes whacked out websites and trots about dressed up as a man sixty years dead.

El Vez dresses up as a man who's 35 years dead, though, so he's OK, even if Hispanic.
posted by raysmj at 1:08 PM on April 19, 2013

The amount of cynicism in this thread is unbelievable...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 1:09 PM on April 19, 2013

CBS' Bob Schieffer: "It's clear that these two brothers are jihadists of some sort."

At this point no news media person should be starting any sentence with 'It's clear.' It's not clear. Not clear at all.

The only thing clear is that we are witnessing the full meltdown of American journalism.
posted by double bubble at 1:09 PM on April 19, 2013 [25 favorites]

(avoiding the temptation of the edit window to add clarification to my comment - it was posted before the identities were known. I think if someone wrote that knowningly directed at specific known individuals instead of vague "unknown people of bad intent", I think it wouldn't be as funny to me...)
posted by rmd1023 at 1:10 PM on April 19, 2013

griphus: it was posted on 4/17, well before their identities were known.

I mean, sure, but the inherent assumption that it couldn't possibly be one of "us" -- and the insistence on continuing to frame it that way despite evidence to the contrary -- is what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I'm not about to make a giant stink over how people deal with grief and rage and helplessness. After 9/11, I heard pretty reasonable people say some pretty awful things that they would never repeat and are probably embarrassed by in retrospect. I don't really have any right to tell anyone dealing with this to watch their mouth.
posted by griphus at 1:10 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The amount of cynicism in this thread is unbelievable...

You should have seen the toddler-punching Axe-Me thread!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:10 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The only thing clear is that we are witnessing the full meltdown of American journalism.

...because of their excessive use of lurid hyperbole?
posted by jaduncan at 1:11 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

That escort was likely so that the dog walker would not be shot by twitchy law enforcement.

Yes, which is good. I don't like lots of heavily armed guards in my area, but if there are going to be a bunch, I'd really, really hope some of them let their buddies know not to shoot me or my dog. I know the police escort was probably protection from their own-- but I'm glad they realize that freaking out and killing civilians is a risk and are taking steps to let people (and dogs) do essential business (business, ha) with appropriate protection.

I'm way more scared of a bunch of jumpy SWAT teams than I am of one crazy dude on the run, even if those SWAT teams are well-intentioned and I agree they should be there. So I'm glad they're not so arrogant that they aren't thinking "Hey, maybe we should protect the public from ourselves, too."
posted by WidgetAlley at 1:11 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I think the "you don't know who you fucked with" stuff about Boston is a little weird

Not to mention, a teeny bit, ummm parochial?

The Single Most Stunning Fact About the Boston Bombing
posted by mrgrimm at 1:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

The 10th Regiment of Foot: The amount of cynicism in this thread is unbelievable...

You should have seen the toddler-punching Axe-Me thread!

This is useless without a link, and searching for "toddler punching" isn't helping.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:13 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

The only thing clear is that we are witnessing the full meltdown of American journalism.

Sure, but in all seriousness, how is that different from most major, fast moving stories? It's incredibly hard to get the actual facts of a story as it's happening and it usually takes a protracted effort by skilled professionals to fill in the blanks. That usually can't happen in anything close to real time.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:13 PM on April 19, 2013

Friend: Suspect 'a normal pot head'
posted by BobbyVan at 1:13 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm from Brooklyn, and we have that here too, and if someone I knew who came here at the age of 9 committed a crime, I would be equally weirded out if the reaction was DON'T FUCK WITH BROOKLYN, FOREIGNER.

I think it would apply to the nativeborn, too. Basically, it's a "everyone who had a hand in this will be punished" rather than "Those people aren't us."
posted by corb at 1:14 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The only thing clear is that we are witnessing the full meltdown of American journalism.

The meltdown of American Journalism is not new. Our witnessing the meltdown in real time, now that's what is new.
posted by Fizz at 1:15 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I would be equally weirded out if the reaction was DON'T FUCK WITH BROOKLYN, FOREIGNER.

Well, later in the article he says

And worse yet for you, Boston is provincial in a way that makes Sicily look like Epcot. We don’t care if you’re going to school here, just moved from half a world away or are up for a long weekend. When you’re in Boston, you’re Boston. We watch each other’s backs, always have and always will.

If we can draw on the strength of provincialism to get through this hard time without falling in to blind xenophobia, that'd be good. "Fuck you, Chechnya" is stupid. "Fuck you, bomb throwers" sounds about right.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:16 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

From the Slate article: I would love to know what kind of suit this guy is wearing. Some kind of bomb detonation suit? Deep sea diver? Astronaut on Planet Cabela's?
posted by inertia at 1:17 PM on April 19, 2013

Basically, it's a "everyone who had a hand in this will be punished" rather than "Those people aren't us."

Less Toby Keith, more "Higher and Higher" Statue of Liberty sequence in Ghostbusters II.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:17 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Obviously, none of this is a joking matter, but the idea of a dog with armed guards to poop made me smile.

When I was seven we got an after-hours tour of the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, in the Gem & Minerals exhibit. A lot of jewelry with giant gems was passed around among the guests, but I didn't care because I had to go pee...and I was shy.

Eventually my mom got permission for me to go to the men's room, but an armed guard went with me and stood outside the stall. Thank goodness not to have Shy Bladder that night.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:19 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

From the Slate article: I would love to know what kind of suit this guy is wearing. Some kind of bomb detonation suit? Deep sea diver? Astronaut on Planet Cabela's?


It's a bomb suit or maybe better bomb armor.
posted by Jalliah at 1:19 PM on April 19, 2013

@inertia - that guy is EOD. It's a bomb suit.
posted by smoothvirus at 1:19 PM on April 19, 2013

That suit is protective gear worn by the bomb disposal crews. Similar to this from the film The Hurt Locker.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:19 PM on April 19, 2013

The don't mess with us rhetoric reeks of Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue ...

Well, today (April 19) is the anniversary of the start of the American Revolution with the battles of Concord and Lexington.

To quote Governor Deval Patrick from his speech at the interfaith service: "Massachusetts invented America."

And to quote President Obama: "[I]t should be pretty clear by now that they picked the wrong city to do it. Not here in Boston. Not here in Boston"
posted by ericb at 1:20 PM on April 19, 2013

I don't really have any right to tell anyone to watch their mouth.

Thank you. I'm sure it was the same for New Yorkers right after 9/11, but the amount of armchair speculation and blanket statements about people who live in or have loved ones in Boston from people who don't is kind of grating.
posted by oinopaponton at 1:20 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"I would love to know what kind of suit this guy is wearing. Some kind of bomb detonation suit? Deep sea diver? Astronaut on Planet Cabela's?"

It looks like it's his dad's.
posted by klangklangston at 1:20 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

From @NBCNews: Seven (7) IEDs have been recovered in the searches so far, some in Watertown, some at the house in Cambridge.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:22 PM on April 19, 2013

Does anyone have a good link explaining what the suits are made of and how they work? They look kinda like our fire gear but a LOT more hardcore and with body armor components. Would love to see a good lay-man's explanation.
posted by WidgetAlley at 1:22 PM on April 19, 2013

So, now our position is the media is doing a great job and they should keep it up? It's been evolving in this direction for a long time, but today's "reporting" has gone way overboard. They've abandoned the basic tenets of journalism and are just relaying anything and everything regardless of relevance, newsworthiness, facts, or corroboration. My junior high grape vine was more professional.
posted by double bubble at 1:22 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Less Toby Keith, more "Higher and Higher" Statue of Liberty sequence in Ghostbusters II.

Ten out of ten schoolchildren cannot point to Carpathia on a map.
posted by griphus at 1:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

From the Slate article: I would love to know what kind of suit this guy is wearing.

"A bomb suit or a blast suit is a heavy suit of body armor designed to withstand the pressure released from a bomb and any projectiles the bomb may produce. It is usually worn by trained personnel attempting bomb disposal. In contrast to ballistic body armors, which usually focus on protecting the torso and head, a bomb suit must protect all parts of the body, since the dangers posed by a bomb's explosion affect the entire body. Current designs that are effective are generally very heavy, bulky and difficult to maneuver in. These drawbacks make it unsuitable for regular use in combat situations."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:23 PM on April 19, 2013

The "don't mess with us rhetoric" has been part of Boston's culture since as long as I can remember.

Sigh... humans.
posted by smidgen at 1:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Ten out of ten schoolchildren cannot point to Carpathia on a map.

That's where Viggo Mortensen is from, right?
posted by zombieflanders at 1:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

Typically well-selected In Focus showing incredible amounts of militarized-looking police on the manhunt.

Slate's Crime Blog is on the ground in Watertown. Choice quote:

Amar's house hadn't yet been searched, but he and another neighbor, who was sitting astride a bicycle, watched as cops went through the houses closer to Mount Auburn Street. "You know the philosopher Žižek?" the other man said, remembering that, after the September 11 attacks, Slavoj Žižek wrote a book called Welcome to the Desert of the Real, in which he observed that the actual consequences of attacks like the Boston Marathon bombing are far less significant than the symbolic consequences. "In the end, three people died because of the bombing," the neighbor noted. "But the real result is that we become acclimated to stuff like this."

Rick Perlstein about this fucking week- "Our Politics of Fear".

Terror shatters us here precisely because ours is not a terrifying place compared to so much of the rest of the world. And also not really an objectively terrifying time, compared other periods in the American past: for instance, Christmastime, 1975, when an explosion equivalent to twenty-five sticks of dynamite exploded in a baggage claim area, leaving severed heads and other body parts scattered among some two dozen corpses; no one ever claimed responsibility; no one ever was caught; but pretty much, the event was forgotten, life went on, and no one anywhere said "everything changed."

A less narcissistic time, perhaps. Not now. Now, we let trauma consume us. Now, our desperate longing to know—to find easy, immediate answers—confines us, makes us frantic, reduces us to our basest cognitive instincts.

(pretty sure that's not meant to disparage anybody who, you know, is inside there staying away from windows right now, more about the rest of the internet and everybody...)

Apologies if any of these have already been linked, it's a mighty big thread...
posted by hap_hazard at 1:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [28 favorites]

Whelp as a foreigner my impressions of Boston, gathered from whatever cultural morass I've come across is that it's a tough, bad ass sort of city but in sort of classy way that I can only describe as "Bostinian'. It has it's own unique descriptor that doesn't fit with any other American city.

I didn't get rah, rah, red white and blue from that piece at all. It fit quite well with the mythos I have about the city.
posted by Jalliah at 1:25 PM on April 19, 2013

Thank you. I'm sure it was the same for New Yorkers right after 9/11, but the amount of armchair speculation and blanket statements about people who live in or have loved ones in Boston from people who don't is kind of grating.

Just FYI- like I said, from outside of Boston. Lived there for a few years. Walked by the bomb sites a billion times. Have friends there as we speak. Not like I need permission to have an opinion- but not all Bostonians have exactly the same view point. As griphus said, I'll let you react in your own way. But this isn't just outside critics who don't understand.
posted by murfed13 at 1:26 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

roomthreeseventeen: "Toilets along the course will be located only at mile 2."

Holy, uh, shit. That's pretty much a race-ruiner for someone with a cranky colon.
posted by notsnot at 1:26 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Thank you. I'm sure it was the same for New Yorkers right after 9/11, but the amount of armchair speculation and blanket statements about people who live in or have loved ones in Boston from people who don't is kind of grating.

"This group I'm not part of has views that I imagine are helpfully similar to the views I have for the purposes of my comment! Also, my black friend said that strerotypical generalisations are OK and not just essentially mansplaining people's own culture to them."
posted by jaduncan at 1:27 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

They've abandoned the basic tenets of journalism and are just relaying anything and everything regardless of relevance, newsworthiness, facts, or corroboration. My junior high grape vine was more professional.

They'll take our 24-hour news cycle OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS
posted by scody at 1:27 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I was thinking yesterday - how would the Kennedy assassination have played out in these times? Imagine the avalanche of photos, videos, eyewitness tweets and blog posts.

It's during events like this that I think the internet has made us smarter and dumber at the same time.
posted by davebush at 1:28 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"We're not trying to other people and you'd know that if you weren't an other!" (kidding!)
posted by jason_steakums at 1:29 PM on April 19, 2013

how would the Kennedy assassination have played out in these times?

We would not be arguing about lone gunmen or grassy knolls 49 years later, that's what.
posted by ambrosia at 1:30 PM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Thanks guys! I don't know why, but those bomb suits look kind of silly to me, like I just want someone to stand next to me wearing one and make robot sounds...

....that's probably just me, right?

I think they look kind of like the snowsuits you wear when you are a little kid, which as soon as you put them on you ALWAYS had to pee. I hope, among other things, that all the bomb suit wearing folks today do not have that problem.
posted by inertia at 1:30 PM on April 19, 2013

They'll take our 24-hour news cycle OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS

Well, I didn't say it wasn't highly entertaining. It's way better than Survivor. Not quite as good as Amazing Race.
posted by double bubble at 1:31 PM on April 19, 2013

They'll take our 24-hour news cycle OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS


This reminds me that I joked last night that this week has been incredible at testing my faith in the first two amendments of our Constitution.

Weirdly, I woke up this morning, and there was a whole fourth amendment issue happening too. The Constitution is a living document.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:31 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

"This group I'm not part of has views that I imagine are helpfully similar to the views I have for the purposes of my comment! Also, my black friend said that strerotypical generalisations are OK and not just essentially mansplaining people's own culture to them."

Do you mean "a blanket statement was made about New Yorkers by an outsider, as an attempt to say that people shouldn't make blanket statements about Bostonians from outside"?
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:32 PM on April 19, 2013

I hope, among other things, that all the bomb suit wearing folks today do not have that problem.

"This is a poopie suit."
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 1:33 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

This reminds me that I joked last night that this week has been incredible at testing my faith in the first two amendments of our Constitution.

Which explains why we can't actually take the 24-hour news cycle out back and shoot it for the general good of civilization, alas.
posted by scody at 1:33 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

those bomb suits look kind of silly to me, like I just want someone to stand next to me wearing one and make robot sounds...

You mean the suit isn't connected to Daft Punk's new single? Hunh.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:33 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

We would not be arguing about lone gunmen or grassy knolls 49 years later, that's what.

Considering the popularity of "Loose Change," I think we would.
posted by drezdn at 1:34 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Nothing about this makes any sense. The 19-year old's Twitter and personal accounts are pretty much that of any old bro. Yet somehow he evades BPD/FBI/SWAT teams for over 12 hours? Breaks into a series of cars, and somehow hotwires them, drives them around? Makes a series of bombs and throws them out the window?

Either the kid is a mastermind and has the perfect alibi and disguises himself with pitch-perfect '19-year-old-kid' social media accounts and by maintaining good friendly relationships with friends. OR Occam's Razor says that the younger brother isn't fully involved, is scared shitless and is running for his life, having accidentally taken part in something larger, possibly instigated by his older brother.

My instinct or gut reaction is that the two brothers were involved in something larger. The older brother was tasked with carrying this out, or dropping the bags off, and that the younger brother aided the older brother unknowingly. Perhaps he didn't know what was in the bags; perhaps he was convinced by the older brother. Maybe it was pitched as a "swap" - "help me carry these bags; we're going to leave them here so someone is going to pick them up."Or maybe he was convinced.

A 19-year old is an adult, but young enough to be malleable and convinced, especially when it comes to friendly figures such as your older brother. But the fact that the younger kid continues to escape, to me, and has the resources to eat/sleep/find a place to use the bathroom/charge phones/etc, means that there's another entity or group behind this, such as a local group of right-wing fanatics, or even one figurehead.
posted by suedehead at 1:34 PM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

This reminds me that I joked last night that this week has been incredible at testing my faith in the first two amendments of our Constitution.

I think this week's going to test the fourth, too.
posted by SpecialK at 1:34 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

double bubble: "So, now our position is the media is doing a great job and they should keep it up? It's been evolving in this direction for a long time, but today's "reporting" has gone way overboard. They've abandoned the basic tenets of journalism and are just relaying anything and everything regardless of relevance, newsworthiness, facts, or corroboration. My junior high grape vine was more professional."

Which is of course what they do whenever there is any kind of complicated "breaking news" event.
posted by chavenet at 1:35 PM on April 19, 2013

The Third Amendment will, however, remain untested.
posted by Area Man at 1:35 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

My instinct or gut reaction is that the two brothers were involved in something larger. The older brother was tasked with carrying this out, or dropping the bags off, and that the younger brother aided the older brother unknowingly. Perhaps he didn't know what was in the bags; perhaps he was convinced by the older brother. Maybe it was pitched as a "swap" - "help me carry these bags; we're going to leave them here so someone is going to pick them up."Or maybe he was convinced

yeah. I think it's possible the other kid didn't know.
posted by sweetkid at 1:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

those bomb suits look kind of silly to me, like I just want someone to stand next to me wearing one and make robot sounds...

You mean the suit isn't connected to Daft Punk's new single? Hunh.

The most misguided attempt at viral marketing since that rash that spelled out NIKE.
posted by griphus at 1:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Damn straight, if anyone is thinking of messing with Brooklyn you better think again. We will not rest until we find you, open an adorable brunch place on your block, and make you a frittata with locally grown free range eggs and tell you all about our plans for the weekend and that awesome new band we saw.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [32 favorites]

21st amendment greatly exercised, however
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

the younger kid continues to escape, to me, and has the resources to eat/sleep/find a place to use the bathroom/charge phones/etc

I don't think this is the case. I think the younger kid went to ground somewhere ... possibly under a bush in a park somewhere, god only knows where else ... and is staying put for as long as he can to try to save his own hide. Either that, or he's slipped the dragnet on his own by looking like any old dudebro ... totally possible if you don't make any mistakes and/or are lucky.
posted by SpecialK at 1:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Anyone can print accurate information, but New York Post always follows the four W's of journalism: who, whatever, and why wait." -- Stephen Colbert
posted by ericb at 1:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [19 favorites]

I thought that in Brooklyn, they'd just raise your rent until you left.
posted by klangklangston at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Decriminalized. Smoke it if you got it beleaguered Massachussetsites!

Is "beleaguered Massachussetsites" what the cops ask you to coherently say to determine if you are stoned or not?

Also: probably scores an absolute ton at scrabble.
posted by Wordshore at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

I don't know why, but those bomb suits look kind of silly to me...

They frighten me, because the hands are uncovered, for obvious reasons. So it's possible to survive a bomb explosion but completely lose both of your hands. Terrifying thought.

Nothing about this makes any sense. The 19-year old's Twitter and personal accounts are pretty much that of any old bro. Yet somehow he evades BPD/FBI/SWAT teams for over 12 hours?

It's probably possible to find out typical police tactics and responses and develop plans to evade them. It's my understanding, which hasn't been confirmed, that he escaped by driving an SUV over his brother's dead body, towards the police officers, which scattered them.

From there, it's probably possible for a determined person to evade capture for a while, especially they had a getaway plan in place. It's a big city, with plenty of places for a single body to hide for a while, when you've grown up there. Still, it'll be interesting to read the account of what actually happened once the facts are known.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2013

The Third Amendment will, however, remain untested.

Every year at the annual Bill of Rights party, the third amendment sits alone in the corner wearing its "most outdated amendment" sash, mumbling bitterly about how even the repealed amendments get more respect.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

SassHat:

"The Onion:

BREAKING: No News Breaking

BREAKING: Has The Word ‘Breaking’ Lost All Its Meaning?

BREAKING: Still Nothing

BREAKING: Can Anyone Ever Truly Know Anything? What Is The Truth?

BREAKING: We Might Be Doing A Bad Job

BREAKING: Do You Think We’re Doing A Good Job?"

Latest headline:

BREAKING: We're Doing A Bad Job
posted by ocherdraco at 1:38 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Either that, or he's slipped the dragnet on his own by looking like any old dudebro ... totally possible if you don't make any mistakes and/or are lucky.

Or - as someone posited upthread - he managed to escape in the wee hours of the morning before the full-on dragnet even started. I really wouldn't be shocked if he's no longer in the Boston area.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:39 PM on April 19, 2013

But the fact that the younger kid continues to escape, to me, and has the resources to eat/sleep/find a place to use the bathroom/charge phones/etc, means that there's another entity or group behind this, such as a local group of right-wing fanatics, or even one figurehead.

Or he could just be dead.
posted by desjardins at 1:39 PM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]

Nothing about this makes any sense. The 19-year old's Twitter and personal accounts are pretty much that of any old bro. Yet somehow he evades BPD/FBI/SWAT teams for over 12 hours? Breaks into a series of cars, and somehow hotwires them, drives them around? Makes a series of bombs and throws them out the window?

I'd wager that the vast majority of bomb making and hot wiring in this country is carried out by19 year olds and younger; doesn't seem that crazy to me.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:40 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yet somehow he evades BPD/FBI/SWAT teams for over 12 hours? Breaks into a series of cars, and somehow hotwires them, drives them around? Makes a series of bombs and throws them out the window?

I don't think any of this really requires a masterful criminal mind. Especially evading the police for 12 hours... even if he is somehow still in Boston, he could be hiding in a dumpster or something and be totally undetectable. Now, give it a week and I'll be more impressed...
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:40 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Typically well-selected In Focus showing incredible amounts of militarized-looking police on the manhunt.

Is it wrong to be a little amused that a 19-year-old with nothing is eluding (tens of?) thousands cops armed to the teeth.

This reminds me that I joked last night that this week has been incredible at testing my faith in the first two amendments of our Constitution.

The crackdown in Boston pretty much kills the 2nd amendment argument that we need firearms to protect us from the government.

Your well-regulated militia will not kick anyone's ass

The 19-year old's Twitter and personal accounts are pretty much that of any old bro. Yet somehow he evades BPD/FBI/SWAT teams for over 12 hours?

I dunno. Stash yourself at the bottom of a dumpster and wait it out? That's my first thought.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:41 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

We would not be arguing about lone gunmen or grassy knolls 49 years later, that's what.

oh... hahahaha hehehe *weeeze*.

I'll be sure to pass that along to the folks convinced 911 was an inside job, Paul Welstone was killed by the Bush Admin, Newton was carried out by the Israeli Secret Service, immunizations cause autism, the earth is flat and we never made it to the moon. I'm sure this age of reason, technology hath bestowed upon us will enlighten their oh so darkened minds.
posted by edgeways at 1:41 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Or - as someone posited upthread - he managed to escape in the wee hours of the morning before the full-on dragnet even started.

Full on dragnet started shortly after the 7-11 robbery, murder of the MIT police officer.

It's really hard to search houses/an urban area thoroughly.
posted by drezdn at 1:42 PM on April 19, 2013

If we are taking the Occam's Razor approach, he's either dead or under a bush. They clearly did not have escape plans given that it didn't dawn on them until after the FBI presser last night that they would need actual cash and a car not registered in their names. No one is (intentionally) hiding this guy.
posted by murfed13 at 1:42 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I haven't been able to catch up, but were there retractions and/or apologies for outing Tripathi?

Yes. More details about the fiasco.

I can't say I was surprised by the outpouring of xenophobic hatred against Tripathi and Mulugeta, Tripathi's family, and two whole ethnic groups based on hearsay. But I'm disappointed by the social media crowd who screwed up royally last night and still managed to brainwash themselves and everyone else with the "Official: Social > News Media!" meme.

I watched this extraordinary event play out on social media, mostly Twitter. Beyond anxiety on behalf of the affected area's residents, what struck me the hardest was not the xenophobia or the insipid left-vs-right blame game. It was the thoughtless worship of crowdsourcing in the face of one of its gravest fuckups.
posted by fatehunter at 1:42 PM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]

Either that, or he's slipped the dragnet on his own by looking like any old dudebro ... totally possible if you don't make any mistakes and/or are lucky.

Put him in a deep-V-neck T-shirt, American Apparel hoody, ironic retro vinyl jacket and aviator shades and he'd blend into any hipster bar.
posted by acb at 1:43 PM on April 19, 2013

I don't think any of this really requires a masterful criminal mind. Especially evading the police for 12 hours... even if he is somehow still in Boston, he could be hiding in a dumpster or something and be totally undetectable. Now, give it a week and I'll be more impressed...

Yeah, I think people often grossly overestimate the efficiency, resources & investigative powers of the police. It's not exactly like CSI or Person of Interest.

It's extremely likely they'll find the guy eventually; just not necessarily within minutes or hours.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:45 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

I saw the Sunil Tripathi thing on Facebook last night (when I was a little drunk) and was furious. Someone posted "this is the guy, this is him."
posted by sweetkid at 1:46 PM on April 19, 2013

Put him in a deep-V-neck T-shirt, American Apparel hoody, ironic retro vinyl jacket and aviator shades and he'd blend into any hipster bar.

Except for the fact that he looks just like that bomber dude that all the hipsters have seen a hundred times on the TV and web.
posted by Unified Theory at 1:47 PM on April 19, 2013

Helpful color-coded map of lockdown areas in Boston:

Orange: Stay Indoors/Business Closed.

Red: Stay Indoors/Business Closed/No Vehicle Traffic Allowed.

Green: Staht Drinking!

posted by ericb at 1:47 PM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]

I don't think they're going to catch this guy today unless the police get a lucky break or he does something stupid.

The time to catch Suspect #2 was last night. They had him, and he got away. Now with every hour that passes, his location is becoming less certain and the likelihood of finding him goes down. If he was going to confront the police and go out with a blaze of glory, he would have done it last night, so it seems reasonable to assume that he's either hiding or actively trying to escape. In the short term, he has a large geographic area to hide in (basically anywhere that can be reached by car or train in a single night), so it's unlikely he'll be found unless they catch a lucky break like a witness identification.

In the long term Suspect #2's chances are much slimmer, because his likely face and name are all over the news. Once he evades the immediate police cordon, he has to escape with whatever assets he has on him, or whatever he can steal. (And as we've seen, committing crimes is a red flag that alerts the police to his location.) But where can he go? Any relatives or friends are going to be under surveillance. He can't take a greyhound or a plane. He's got no good long term options.

So he might hide for a day or even multiple days, then get caught when he makes a mistake or makes a final stand of some sort. It probably depends upon how frightened or confused he is right now.
posted by Kevin Street at 1:47 PM on April 19, 2013

Or he could just be dead.

yeah seriously.. if we are speculating about the genius kid, might as well ponder that he could have jumped in a dumpster and bled out from possible wounds sustained from last night.

But seriously? 12-14 hours when the people looking for you are trying to not get shot or have other people shot? Not exactly gold level achievement unlocked territory.

Dude is young, been awake for how long (if alive), face plastered on all media outlets, likely out of food, and even if does have some $ it will be hard to spend it. Lets not expect CSI speed developments. I know attention spans are difficult to maintain and it's exhausting, especially when fed by the slavering cable channels, but give it a few more days.
posted by edgeways at 1:48 PM on April 19, 2013

"The only one you can't turn off is the "Presidential Emergency Alert" which, if you get that one you'll have much, much bigger problems to worry about."

FEMA concentration camps, I assume."

Heh. I was thinking more nuclear war or giant meteor.

Oh my god. If the president called me up to tell me that a giant meteor was coming towards me I would (to steal a phrase) shit my leg. There is not much "responding" you can do in the case of a giant meteor hurtling toward you-- staying indoors hardly seems appropriate.

those bomb suits look kind of silly to me, like I just want someone to stand next to me wearing one and make robot sounds...

I think we are conditioned to find giant, inflated humonoids funny a la Staypuff Marshmallow man and Tellytubbies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:48 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The other thing is: if the kid shaved his head, dyed his eyebrows, and changed his clothes, I'm not sure anyone would be able to recognize him.
posted by corb at 1:48 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

When they were talking about searching the banks of the Charles early on the event, I wondered about suicide, but I thought that was likely for Dorner and he was just sitting pat instead. I wonder what they are doing about houses where there was no one home to allow them in or the residents refused. Are they coming back with search warrants? I'm not a big fan of big random sweep search warrants, but at the same time if you only check houses where you are allowed in, the search could easily move right past him.
posted by tavella at 1:49 PM on April 19, 2013

There's a touching new Ask Amy up where she talks a bit about using the Internet to process this week's events.
posted by yarrow at 1:49 PM on April 19, 2013

That, or dressed as a woman.

Meanwhile, where are the Boondock Saints when you need em?
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:49 PM on April 19, 2013

Except for the fact that he looks just like that bomber dude that all the hipsters have seen a hundred times on the TV and web.

If he was standing right in front of me I'm not sure I'd recognize him. Certainly not well enough to say "IT'S HIM, GRAB HIM!" Of course, he's probably exhausted, unwashed and possibly injured, but he doesn't really look ALL THAT distinctive.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:50 PM on April 19, 2013

Doesn't really explain why they decided to rob a 7-11 a few blocks away from where they lived after their photos were out but before they were identified. My guess is that they were just idiots who didn't think things through very well.

I initially had the same thought, but my guess is they saw themselves in the video, freaked out, figured they needed some cash to skip town and that's what they came up with. Still not very well-planned, but it makes some sense.

Even if they thought that robbing a 7-11 would be a good way to get cash without getting caught (it's really not for a variety of reasons), they could have at least gotten as far away from Boston as possible before doing it. They were extremely bad at being criminals on the run, which would make sense if they had never committed a crime before and weren't part of any criminal organization.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:50 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

didn't they say the 7-11 now seems unrelated?
posted by sweetkid at 1:50 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yeah, it's like they didn't know that calling 7-11s "Stop and Robs" is facetious.
posted by klangklangston at 1:51 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

They're saying now, though, that they're not the ones who robbed the 7-11.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:51 PM on April 19, 2013

So if they didn't rob the 7-11, when/how did the older brother die?
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2013

I thought the security cam still from last night of Suspect #2 was from that 7-11, though.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2013

sweetkid: "I saw the Sunil Tripathi thing on Facebook last night (when I was a little drunk) and was furious. Someone posted "this is the guy, this is him.""

I saw several tweets last night from people admonishing various "mainstream media" sources for not naming the suspects when they were clearly Tripathi and Mulugeta. It was pretty pathetic.
posted by brundlefly at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2013

ericb: that map image seems to have been updated on boston.com to include more "stay inside" and less "staht drinkin!"
posted by ghostbikes at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2013

I saw the Sunil Tripathi thing on Facebook last night (when I was a little drunk) and was furious. Someone posted "this is the guy, this is him."

I could swear that the Boston Globe confirmed in a tweet that he was the suspect. Wasn't that what set everyone off last night? If I'm right, I think that makes the Globe a worse offender than CNN, which at least hasn't ruined anyone's life (that I know of) with its coverage of these incidents.
posted by eugenen at 1:53 PM on April 19, 2013

They're saying now, though, that they're not the ones who robbed the 7-11.

Damn, this now puts them back on the Criminal Mastermind / Part of Highly Organised Terror Group list again.

Stop flip-flopping on me all the time, reality!
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:53 PM on April 19, 2013

PRI says the FBI provided a surveillance photo from 7-11. Article was published Friday at 3:43 AM.

Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, pictured in a surveillance photo from a 7-11, is believed to be one of the two suspects in the Boston Marathon attack. (Photo courtesy of the FBI.)

posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:54 PM on April 19, 2013

"They" have been saying the 7-11 is unrelated for hours. Even last night, it was known that the 7-11 was a three-man robbery, and that the bombers filled up (and paid) at a Shell. But, hey, idle and uninformed speculation is de riguer today.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:54 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

I thought the security cam still from last night of Suspect #2 was from that 7-11, though

It was said they bought gas so maybe that's where the cam picture came from
posted by Jalliah at 1:55 PM on April 19, 2013

They're saying now, though, that they're not the ones who robbed the 7-11.

Yeah, we don't know for sure what happened, so it's premature to say it's weird that one has evaded capture for over X hours.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:55 PM on April 19, 2013

how/why did they go to MIT and shoot the cop? I missed that part, being asleep.
posted by sweetkid at 1:55 PM on April 19, 2013

The Boston Globe put out the following tweet about 40 minutes ago: "BREAKING NEWS: Law enforcement officials say desperate Marathon bombing suspect ran over his own wounded brother as he fled police."
posted by Area Man at 1:55 PM on April 19, 2013

Or he could just be dead.

If he's dead and we've been kept indoors on the only nice day this year because of it, I will kick his corpse in the face.
posted by sonika at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

They frighten me, because the hands are uncovered, for obvious reasons. So it's possible to survive a bomb explosion but completely lose both of your hands. Terrifying thought.

They always frightened me too for that very reason. But I think those suits are designed for high-explosives in which the pressure wave is what kills and not necessarily the shrapnel.

Can someone who is more familiar with bomb physics and/or trauma chime in here? Because I still am not convinced that you aren't just sacrificing your hands (and feet) to save your heart.

staying indoors hardly seems appropriate.

I figured I would always find my high school girlfriend and ride a motorbike up a hill or make peace with my dad on a beach.
posted by chemoboy at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

The Boston Marathon bombing suspect was on the run Friday afternoon as officials revealed he and his brother exchanged 200 rounds with police during a stunning firefight and left seven homemade explosives behind.*

posted by ericb at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013

Even last night, it was known that the 7-11 was a three-man robbery

So there were actually 3 of them? The two on the run are possibly disguising themselves as a husband and wife.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013

Senator Lindsey Graham says the guy should be treated as an enemy combatant.
posted by Flunkie at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

FFS,

Drudge now has jihad, written in Arabic, as the main image on the front of the Drudge Report.

The american right hates muslims.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

This, from the NYT, seems to be the most solid chronology.
posted by neroli at 1:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Anyone else feel drained and depleted from this? Maybe it's the late night, but I keep telling myself to step away from this ... but can't.

I find this event (as BobbyVan stated in the other thread) has a crazy Delilloesque aspect and, as a "media event," it feels to me like a weird combination of 9/11, the Columbine massacre and the Andrew Cunanan killing spree.
posted by Unified Theory at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I figured I would always find my high school girlfriend and ride a motorbike up a hill or make peace with my dad on a beach.

Why wait for catastrophe?
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

In the long term Suspect #2's chances are much slimmer, because his likely face and name are all over the news. Once he evades the immediate police cordon, he has to escape with whatever assets he has on him, or whatever he can steal. (And as we've seen, committing crimes is a red flag that alerts the police to his location.) But where can he go? Any relatives or friends are going to be under surveillance. He can't take a greyhound or a plane. He's got no good long term options.

Eric Rudolph (Olympic Park bomber) evaded the FBI for 5 years by hiding in the mountains on North Carolina, however I haven't seen any evidence that Tsarnaev is capable of such a thing. Still, 5 years! That's a sobering thought.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

In tragedy, a Republican takes charge...
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2013

If he's dead and we've been kept indoors on the only nice day this year because of it, I will kick his corpse in the face.

It would be an interesting twist on All Summer in a Day.
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:58 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

A friend of mine in Watertown who has a dog and who also spent his morning with 4 heavily armed cops outside his front door said he spoke with one of the officers and he was provided with an armed escort into his front yard for his dog to do its business.

Photo.
posted by ericb at 1:58 PM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

"I saw the Sunil Tripathi thing on Facebook last night (when I was a little drunk) and was furious. Someone posted "this is the guy, this is him.""

There was a period of about 1-2 hours in MeFi Chat last night that was profoundly reprehensible and unsettling. I'm just glad the shitshow wasn't visible to the entire Tubes.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:59 PM on April 19, 2013

It was said they bought gas so maybe that's where the cam picture came from

That would make absolutely no sense based on this map. The police officer was shot right next to where the 7-11 was, and the SUV they carjacked was in a straight line from the 7-11 and the cop.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:59 PM on April 19, 2013

Ha, that's not the friend in question, ericb, but I'm glad to see it's a more widespread phenomenon!
posted by olinerd at 1:59 PM on April 19, 2013

Shut up, Lindsay.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:00 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham says the guy should be treated as an enemy combatant.

Lindsey Graham may be many things, but he does not appear to be someone who understands U.S. law.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]

Senator Lindsey Graham says the guy should be treated as an enemy combatant

Graham was one of the Senators that voted against the Violence Against Women Act because he was afraid of The Gay. Not exactly a profile in courage.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Question: I'm not seeing anything about a search of either suspect's home/apartment/dorm. Surely this would have been carried out, like, immediately after they were identified? Any word on that angle?
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2013

A thought: The brothers are aged such that, if they didn't speak English at the time they immigrated, language acquisition might have been pretty different between them. Tamerlan, being in his mid-teens, may have had a harder time picking up English, and as such, a harder time socializing and catching up in school. Meanwhile, Dzhokhar might have snuck in just before the language acquisition window closed, permitting him to speak without an accent, catch up in school, and socialize more easily.

Now for the caveats: it's just a thought. The brothers could have spoken fluent English before immigrating. And either of them could have been far more proficient (or less proficient) at acquisition than the statistical average. I know nothing about either of them.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2013

I could swear that the Boston Globe confirmed in a tweet that he was the suspect. Wasn't that what set everyone off last night?

From It Wasn't Sunil Tripathi: The Anatomy of a Misinformation Disaster:

A few things are for sure: the scanner chatter never mentioned the two false suspects together. The scanner chatter never mentioned them as suspects, either. The scanner chatter recordings contain no record of any mention. And no one has been able to produce any recording of the scanner mentioning Tripathi.

This presents us with a strange mystery that I wish I could fully solve, but I can't.

Perhaps this is some kind of hoax perpetrated by some unknown group.

Or maybe people heard Tripathi's name, even though police never said it. Many of the people who thought they heard Tripathi's name already knew about the Reddit-centered suspicions about the student. Police had also said another name earlier in the evening and spelled it out. Perhaps they were primed to hear the name and among the static and unreliable connections to these scanners, they heard what they wanted to hear.

Maybe that's what I want to believe. Because otherwise, I just don't understand what happened last night. A piece of evidence that fit a narrative some people really wanted to believe was conjured into existence and there was no stopping its spread.

posted by scody at 2:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Still, 5 years! That's a sobering thought.

I don't want to stay in this thread for another five years. Unless someone orders a pizza?
posted by pineappleheart at 2:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

The Sunil mess is a dark stain on Reddit. I am ashamed of my fellow Redditors for dragging the reputation of an innocent man through the mud without a shred of evidence. I listened to that police scanner feed for HOURS and not once did I hear Sunil's name mentioned.
posted by RedShrek at 2:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Re: Lindsey Graham: No, these men should be treated as murdering criminals.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think Graham is heading into an election and feels the need to act tuff to fight off any Tea Party primary challenge.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:02 PM on April 19, 2013

"I saw the Sunil Tripathi thing on Facebook last night (when I was a little drunk) and was furious. Someone posted "this is the guy, this is him.""

There was a period of about 1-2 hours in MeFi Chat last night that was profoundly reprehensible and unsettling. I'm just glad the shitshow wasn't visible to the entire Tubes.

Glad I missed all that. I didn't know about the disappearance but as soon as I saw the name "Sunil," I was like, Hindu name, probably not involved - not that Muslims necessarily had to be involved or Hindu/Indian kids wouldn't do a lone wolf kind of thing - but what i mean is I could tell people can't make Indian/Hindu/Muslim/Arab distinctions and for my own reasons that chills me.
posted by sweetkid at 2:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

I'm guessing, as I suggested in chat last night, that a Reddit troll claimed to have heard the name on the police scanner and it ran from there.
posted by Justinian at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2013

Saxon Kane, the cops have been at what is apparently the brothers' apartment in Cambridge most of the day and UMass Dartmouth (where one was apparently a student) has been shut down all day with some reports of police searching the campus. I think it's been considered.
posted by olinerd at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2013

Question: I'm not seeing anything about a search of either suspect's home/apartment/dorm. Surely this would have been carried out, like, immediately after they were identified? Any word on that angle?

There are reports that the dorm was searched and they found up to 7 IEDs in the house. Who knows what's true at this point, though.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2013

In tragedy, a Republican takes charge...

What is it with tragedies bringing out the stupid in Republican politicians?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:04 PM on April 19, 2013

From It Wasn't Sunil Tripathi: The Anatomy of a Misinformation Disaster:

This is nuts. I would have sworn under oath this morning that I saw a confirmation from the Boston Globe last night.
posted by eugenen at 2:04 PM on April 19, 2013

The Sunil mess is a dark stain on Reddit. I am ashamed of my fellow Redditors for dragging the reputation of an innocent man through the mud without a shred of evidence. I listened to that police scanner feed for HOURS and not once did I hear Sunil's name mentioned.

Is Reddit what people meant when they were talking about the emergence of "citizen journalism" about 10 years ago?
posted by KokuRyu at 2:05 PM on April 19, 2013

MSNBC -- Police: Watertown Lockdown Could Last Through Weekend.
posted by ericb at 2:05 PM on April 19, 2013

I thought the IEDs were from the shoot-out.

Oh well, this is why I normally try to stay away from "breaking news!" until there's actually been some sort of, you know, break.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:06 PM on April 19, 2013

There was a period of about 1-2 hours in MeFi Chat last night that was profoundly reprehensible and unsettling. I'm just glad the shitshow wasn't visible to the entire Tubes.

Unfortunately, I think it did creep into the older Boston Marathon thread, prior to correction.
posted by CancerMan at 2:06 PM on April 19, 2013

Lindsay Graham and Matt Drudge a lot more of a danger to American values than either of the Tsarnaev brothers could ever hope to be.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:06 PM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

If he makes it up to Maine he might be hidden for a much longer time.
posted by sammyo at 2:06 PM on April 19, 2013

Unless someone orders a pizza?

I'm game. Hawaiian?
posted by chemoboy at 2:07 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

A thought: The brothers are aged such that, if they didn't speak English at the time they immigrated, language acquisition might have been pretty different between them.

This doesn't really make a point one way or the other, but during the Cold War, the USSR took the exact opposite path that America did (and continues to): rather than scrutinizing and ostracizing anyone who understood the language of the opposition, they made the English language a standard part of the school curriculum.

As it turns out, having a population who can understand and read the things The Bad Guys say and write is important.
posted by griphus at 2:07 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

'American Hustle': Boston Production Stopped For Time Being In Wake Of Manhunt.

I was wondering why Bradley Cooper was here and visiting victims in the hospital.
posted by ericb at 2:08 PM on April 19, 2013

There's a picture of the older brother's dead body on Twitter? Yuck. Do not want.
posted by sweetkid at 2:10 PM on April 19, 2013

There was a period of about 1-2 hours in MeFi Chat last night that was profoundly reprehensible and unsettling. I'm just glad the shitshow wasn't visible to the entire Tubes.

Where did that stuff come from? People were acting like he'd been ID'd as one of the bombers ... But I was glued to the scanner broadcast abd heard nothing about the missing student. Were the authorities actually saying this somewhere?
posted by Unified Theory at 2:10 PM on April 19, 2013

Unfortunately, I think it did creep into the older Boston Marathon thread, prior to correction.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:10 PM on April 19, 2013

That would make absolutely no sense based on this map. The police officer was shot right next to where the 7-11 was, and the SUV they carjacked was in a straight line from the 7-11 and the cop.

If you look on Google, that 7-11 has no gas pumps. I think the surveillance photo was probably from the gas station where the carjack victim got away, which is this Shell.
posted by smackfu at 2:10 PM on April 19, 2013

Fortunately, not the really awful stuff.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:11 PM on April 19, 2013

There's a touching new Ask Amy up where she talks a bit about using the Internet to process this week's events.

I saw Metric play in Oakland last night, and after an hour of not saying a word to the crowd, Emily Haines went on a bit of a rant about how she doesn't like to speak at shows anymore because the Internet has made us victims of a total lack of context, where things and snippets of things (like cell phone camera recordings) just float around free-form and open to whatever spin anyone wants to put on them. (Tragically, as she was saying this, the dude next to me took out his iPhone and pressed "record".)

Seemed prescient when I woke up the next morning.
posted by eugenen at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Boston Dunkin' Donuts Remain Open To 'Take Care Of Law Enforcement And First Responders'
posted by brundlefly at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Assuming he got out of the city, I'm starting to be a little concerned that he's headed north (that is, toward my hometown). The September 11th hijackers flew out of PWM, and there are (allegedly) a number of spots in far northern Maine where you could cross into Canada without much fuss. Or, just live in this medium-sized city reasonably undetected. Or, hell, there's a boat waiting for him in Casco Bay harbor (not really; I personally think that they were not supported by anyone, but who knows).
posted by anastasiav at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2013

There are reports that the dorm was searched and they found up to 7 IEDs in the house.

fwiw MSNBC (Erica Hill?) reported last hour that 7 IEDs were found in Watertown and Cambridge. So, yeah, who the eff knows?

What's the latest on the controlled explosion at mum's house near Inman Sq.?
posted by wensink at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2013

Now with every hour that passes, his location is becoming less certain and the likelihood of finding him goes down.

No, with every hour that passes the chances of finding him go up. Boston is a big city, and even within a small part of it there are thousands or millions of places where a person might hide themselves and evade discovery. Under a dumpster is only the tip of the iceberg; there are lots of little places like that to crawl into.

But none of them are places you can really live. Eventually you run out of food, water, places to use the bathroom, etc.

A reasonably intelligent person is probably capable, in extremis, of hiding themselves in a city they're familiar with for at least a few hours. But to do it for longer than they can go hungry for? That's where it jumps to an entirely different level of difficulty, and there's no evidence that this kid is up to the task.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Is Reddit what people meant when they were talking about the emergence of "citizen journalism" about 10 years ago?

To the same degree what CNN did in announcing an arrest that didn't happen is professional journalism. There is a way to do it right and apply proper skepticism. People who want to follow the news this way will have to get used to applying better filters. There is nothing wrong with sticking to more professional outlets if you don't want to do the filtering yourself.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:13 PM on April 19, 2013

If you look on Google, that 7-11 has no gas pumps. I think the surveillance photo was probably from the gas station where the carjack victim got away, which is this Shell.

neroli's timeline link seems to confirm that the photo was from Shell, but that same link says that the police are "double-checking" the 7-11 robbery:

Note: The Massachusetts State Police are backing off an earlier assertion that the two suspects had robbed a 7-Eleven in Cambridge. “The most accurate statement is that we’re investigating whether they were involved in an armed robbery in a 7-Eleven,” said Dave Procopio, a spokesman for the state police. “Initially we came out and confirmed it for you, now I want to go back and double check it,” he said. “I want to qualify that further to say we’re double-checking.”
posted by burnmp3s at 2:14 PM on April 19, 2013

Senator Lindsey Graham says the guy should be treated as an enemy combatant.

Lindsey Graham may be many things, but he does not appear to be someone who understands U.S. law.

Why not? All someone in the executive branch has to do is claim they have evidence linking them to some "terrorist" group. As far as I can tell, if the president said he was an enemy combatant he would become one.
posted by ennui.bz at 2:15 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Kadin2048, I think the point is that if he escaped 12 hours ago, the chance to find him gets worse.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:15 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Based on almost nothing, he doesn't look like the "survive in the woods living off nature" type.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:16 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

You do realize that you can go without food for a lot longer than you'd think? Shoot, I know people who have fasted for over thirty days as a religious exercise. I've done it myself for longer than I care to share on a public forum. If this kid has access to water and is motivated enough, he can stay hidden for awhile.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:16 PM on April 19, 2013

Unless he had a really secure hole to disappear into, he's probably not slept well, whereas BPD has the benefit of shift changes. He is going to get progressively more tired, more hungry, and therefore sloppier in his decision-making process which wasn't great to start with. That is assuming he is uninjured from the shootout, which is a big If. It may take them a while, but he will be found.
posted by ambrosia at 2:17 PM on April 19, 2013

@sweetkid someone linked that without saying what it was in a scanner chatstream. Yuck is right. I wasn't even going to mention it because I sure as hell am not re-posting it here.
posted by chemoboy at 2:17 PM on April 19, 2013

I am listening to a radio station here in Seattle and they are now trying to link Islam to these 2 suspects. Mind you, the radio presenters have not got a shred of evidence of that.
posted by RedShrek at 2:17 PM on April 19, 2013

I'm with Alia on this - you can go without food for quite some time as long as you have water - which is trivially easy to get in large cities. Not to mention dumpster diving for actual food.

How long can Boston stay shut down? It's a real question.
posted by corb at 2:18 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

No, with every hour that passes the chances of finding him go up.

Yeah, once they got a name, it got dramatically tougher. He can't fly anywhere. He can't use any credit cards or ATM. He can't contact friends or relatives because they might be bugged or might tell the police. If he has a weapon, he can steal cars or cash or cards, but that is also risky and sets off red flags if he is identified . And what's the end game? He might wait out the breaking news, but he isn't going to wait out the FBI.

People who stay hidden for a while need a serious support network of sympathetic people.
posted by smackfu at 2:18 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

As far as I can tell, if the president said he was an enemy combatant he would become one.

As far as I can tell, this is by precedent, not law.
posted by chemoboy at 2:18 PM on April 19, 2013

Boston Dunkin' Donuts Remain Open To 'Take Care Of Law Enforcement And First Responders'

I am sure those minimum wage employees were excited to get a "come to work" call when there is a possibly armed gunman on the loose and a directive to stay home because it is too dangerous.
posted by haplesschild at 2:18 PM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

It's a donut shop, there were probably already people in the store before the lockdown.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:20 PM on April 19, 2013

I am sure those minimum wage employees were excited to get a "come to work" call when there is a possibly armed gunman on the lose and a directive to stay home because it is too dangerous.

They are probably the most well protected people in Boston right now... I'm sure they'd have plenty of willing escorts, as well.
posted by MysticMCJ at 2:20 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

MSNBC is now saying the robbery last night at 7/11 was NOT them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:20 PM on April 19, 2013

I am listening to a radio station here in Seattle and they are now trying to link Islam to these 2 suspects. Mind you, the radio presenters have not got a shred of evidence of that.

We don't their motives for the attack, but I thought it was pretty well established that the brothers were muslim, at least nominally. Their Aunt said the older brother had become more religious and had started to pray five times a day.
posted by Area Man at 2:21 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

They're saying now, though, that they're not the ones who robbed the 7-11.


Is it possible they didn't shoot Officer Collier?
posted by Eyebeams at 2:21 PM on April 19, 2013

I'm glad they corrected the 7/11 info before bringing in the Slurpee-sniffing dogs.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on April 19, 2013

corb: I'm with Alia on this - you can go without food for quite some time as long as you have water - which is trivially easy to get in large cities. Not to mention dumpster diving for actual food.

How long can Boston stay shut down? It's a real question.

I'm going to go with maybe three more meals.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:21 PM on April 19, 2013

the USSR took the exact opposite path that America did (and continues to): rather than scrutinizing and ostracizing anyone who understood the language of the opposition

This isn't a fair characterization of the US position during the Cold War. My mother still speaks a bit of leftover Russian from her high-school classes, where it was a language option alongside French and Spanish in the mid-late 60s. Speaking Russian or taking Russian cultural studies classes wasn't unusual for aspiring citizen-of-the-world types.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:21 PM on April 19, 2013

There were Mefites who trotted out the Brown student on the other thread. Myself and another commentator alluded to the fact that Reddit was pointing out another innocent guy as the suspect. Hours later a bunch of Mefites were talking about specifics. I thought it was really quite obvious the claim was baseless, even after the most minimal research into the missing person case. Naming him here was crappy, but I guess no worse than the rest of the internet. I feel awful for his mother, who had to delete the Facebook page dedicated to finding her son because of people taking images and posting on the page that her son was the bomber.
posted by murfed13 at 2:22 PM on April 19, 2013

inertia: "I would love to know what kind of suit this guy is wearing."

I think that's the "I'd like to come home to my wife and kids tonight" suit.
posted by brokkr at 2:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

Regarding the Sunil Tripathi debacle. In chat last night, someone said they heard his name on the scanner. Some people were saying, where did you hear that, did anyone else hear it? It was so late and chat kept crashing for me, I don't know who was on and who was not. I hope someone isn't on Reddit or Metafilter deliberately directing the story line.
posted by toastedbeagle at 2:25 PM on April 19, 2013

Kinda nice how living in the Information Age has made rumor, misinformation, wild speculation and sloppy journalism a thing of the past.
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 2:25 PM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]

I feel awful for his mother, who had to delete the Facebook page dedicated to finding her son because of people taking images and posting on the page that her son was the bomber.

I just don't understand the mindset of people who behave this way. It doesn't honor the memory of the victims at all. It is in no way helpful or righteous or correct behavior.
posted by sweetkid at 2:25 PM on April 19, 2013

This isn't a fair characterization of the US position during the Cold War.

Well, a) Yeah that was kinda uncharitable but b) there's a difference between giving kids a choice (and all the while giving McCarthy's completely counterproductive yet stunningly effective xenophobia as much airtime and public exposure as he could possibly want) and making it clear that it is really, really important, to your entire society, that you speak a second language, which is a problem this country still has.
posted by griphus at 2:25 PM on April 19, 2013

Boston Comic Con has been canceled. Or at least postponed to some unknown future date.
posted by Area Man at 2:26 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

And what's the end game? He might wait out the breaking news, but he isn't going to wait out the FBI.

The least bad endgame is to take to the hills Eric Rudolph-style. I don't think Tsarnaev has the skills for that one. Second one is, change your appearance drastically and head for New York City, which might be big enough and far enough away to blend in unnoticed for long enough to arrange passage to...I don't know, Russia, maybe? That takes time, money, an anonymous car, skill with disguise, and luck.

Right now, if I had to guess, I would say he was bleeding to death in a dumpster somewhere.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:27 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

Ugh, warning, this Global Grind story on Katherine Russell (supposedly Tamerlan Tsarnaev's widow) nearly crashed my browser with all the ads on the page, only to bring me such mundane insights as "The neighbor gave more details about Russell's life, even revealing that she went back and forth between using her maiden name and her husband's last name."

Seriously?! Gasp! Not worth clicking on.
posted by limeonaire at 2:30 PM on April 19, 2013

Right now, if I had to guess, I would say he was bleeding to death in a dumpster somewhere.

Maybe if these guys get to him first.
posted by vrakatar at 2:30 PM on April 19, 2013

Right now, if I had to guess, I would say he was bleeding to death in a dumpster somewhere.

Considering the number of police looking for him, and pouring over the crime scene looking for a trail of blood or whatever, he is probably not wounded (badly).
posted by chemoboy at 2:31 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I wonder if there's something like an ARGUS drone over Boston during this manhunt.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:32 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yeah, it was weird on chat, because I came in right after the Sunil mentions started flying and asked about it, and got told he was the dude and showed pictures. Pretty glad he's not, though.
posted by klangklangston at 2:32 PM on April 19, 2013

There is a lot of speculation that Suspect #2 is hiding in a hedge, waiting it out in a dumpster, or something similar. If so, wouldn't the K-9 units find him easily? Especially if he's wounded? It's not as if we only have visual as the only means for detection.
posted by _paegan_ at 2:33 PM on April 19, 2013

I was listening to the scanner (and in chat) during that period, and Sunil's name was never mentioned. I saw people tweet it, and then saw people repeat it who should have known better.
posted by sudama at 2:34 PM on April 19, 2013

Yes, a single person said he thought he heard that name on the police scanner, and the rest of the world picked that up as some sort of "confirmation" that the Brown student was related. Nobody else heard it. It was never heard again on the scanner, which would've have been incredibly strange had he been a real suspect.

Just really poor judgment on all the mainstream media outlets who picked up one "I thought I heard this on the scanner" and turned it into a massive online manhunt.

For the wrong person.
posted by docjohn at 2:35 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

...blend in unnoticed for long enough to arrange passage to...I don't know, Russia, maybe?

Throwing himself on the mercy of the US Justice System would be a considerably smarter thing than risking Putin's wrath for putting Russia on the world stage like this (regardless of how much Russia continues to stress that this kid is American as far as they're is concerned.)
posted by griphus at 2:35 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Stupid question, but is there a reason they don't seem to use dogs any more for tracking for this kind of thing? Or have they had them out, and we just didn't hear about it? The reports I've seen had him on foot when he was last seen.
posted by dilettante at 2:35 PM on April 19, 2013

I've been searching for a way to quantify how I've been feeling today, and perhaps unsurprisingly my eventual source of inspiration was my experience as a Red Sox fan in the 1980s and 1990s. Let's call the average amount of anxiety a Red Sox fan experienced watching a single game in the 1990s a Bambino Curse Stress Unit (BCSU). For some games it was lower, for Yankees games it was higher.

My stress level was at about 15 BCSUs while watching games during the 2003 and 2004 ALCS's.

I would say I'm at about 12 BCSUs today from this manhunt. It may seem weird that my stress level has been lower than during some baseball games. But that's because today I've just had a general sense of worry, while during baseball games I'd have to watch Red Sox pitching for half the freaking game.
posted by A dead Quaker at 2:35 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Is it possible they didn't shoot Officer Collier?

It's possible. The info that has been released is not very detailed: he responded to reports of a disturbance and was shot and found by police responding to reports of shots fired. And then a car was carjacked a couple of blocks away, that was definitely the bombers.
posted by smackfu at 2:35 PM on April 19, 2013

Putin is no friend of Chechens who set off bombs.
posted by Area Man at 2:36 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

From the NYT: One law enforcement official said Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was wounded, and two other officials said the authorities had tracked him at some point during the manhunt by his blood trail.

200 bullets exchanged with police and they don't hit him once? Possible, sure. Probable? Then again, if they can get a positive scent trail, police dogs can trail an astonishing distance. Probably helps to have everyone else sheltering in place not covering over trails. (Not saying that's why they are keeping people indoors, obviously.)
posted by ambrosia at 2:37 PM on April 19, 2013

...blend in unnoticed for long enough to arrange passage to...I don't know, Russia, maybe?


If he did that, the UMASS Dartmouth professor mentioned upthread who tutored him in Chechen history should give him a refund.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:37 PM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]

Stupid question, but is there a reason they don't seem to use dogs any more for tracking for this kind of thing? Or have they had them out, and we just didn't hear about it?

If the suspect escaped in an SUV, how are the dogs going to track him?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:38 PM on April 19, 2013

K9 units have been out in force, but they only have so many of these units (and such a large area to cover... Watertown is a small town unto itself with 32,000+ people and 4 square miles).
posted by docjohn at 2:38 PM on April 19, 2013

I would say I'm at about 12 BCSUs today from this manhunt.

How much is that in Smoots?
posted by murphy slaw at 2:38 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think the surveillance photo was probably from the gas station where the carjack victim got away, which is this Shell.

Yep.

Retail cameras assist in investigations; Boston suspects robbed a Shell c-store, not 7-Eleven as widely reported (w/ photo).

They tried 3 times to use the carjacking victim's ATM card. First time failed due to improper PIN. Second attempt they withdrew $800. Third attempt failed, as the card had reached its daily limit.

The police released surveillance photos that show one of the suspects, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, at the Bank of America in Watertown Square at 11:18 p.m. (scroll down for photo).
posted by ericb at 2:39 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

They have both bomb dogs and tracking dogs out there. You can trust people are going about this competently.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:39 PM on April 19, 2013

I was under the impression they had dogs out very early this morning (say, 4am), but there was so much speculation going on I hardly know if it was true.

Folks over at Reddit are claiming that two suspects have been taken into custody, neither of which is "white hat." One of them, allegedly, is an elderly white male--presumably the same guy as earlier, though I haven't seen any gestures toward a resolution of the "old white guy with bomb vest in custody" story of 1pm-ish...
posted by tapir-whorf at 2:39 PM on April 19, 2013

Sorry for length. Clears up some questions.

In a statement, police said the first indication of trouble was 10:24 p.m. when MIT Police received a call from someone reporting they had heard what they feared was gunshots. Four minutes later, the 7-11 store at 750 Massachusetts Avenue was the victim of an armed robber =- but that crime was not commited by the brothers, State Police now say.
One minute later, however, authorities allege that the brothers did shoot and kill MIT Police Oficer Sean A. Collier as the officer sat in his MIT cruiser.
Two minutes later, authorities receive a call that a car has been carjacked by two men outside 816 Memorial Drive. A short time later – it was not immediately clear – a Transit Police officer spots the vehicle and pursues, a chase that came to a stop in Watertown.’
In the moments that followed, 200 rounds were fired by police and apparently by the brothers. Police also recovered “numerous pieces of evidence” including “evidence of homemade explosives, including pipe bombs and another pressure cooker,’’ State Police said.
Also, contrary to what Alben said earlier this afternoon, no potential explosives were found on Norfolk Street in Cambridge where the two brothers lived, and a planned “controlled explosion’’ was deemed unwarranted.
“We did not have to do the controlled detonation,’’ State Police spokesman David Procopio wrote. “We thought a car there might have an explosive but it did not.’’
posted by shortfuse at 2:39 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

There is a lot of speculation that Suspect #2 is hiding in a hedge, waiting it out in a dumpster, or something similar. If so, wouldn't the K-9 units find him easily? Especially if he's wounded? It's not as if we only have visual as the only means for detection.

Flanker for a volunteer K-9 Search and Rescue team here.

Even when someone that is being tracked isn't trying to evade, it's not easy to search an area and track someone with a dog. It's easy to break a trail by getting in a car, crossing moving water, crossing a street with active traffic, etc. Plus, the number of well trained dogs that can do that kind of tracking is frighteningly small.

If he ditched a car that he was in, crossed a street to another block, and hid in a culvert or under a bush ... he's not going to be found by a dog.
posted by SpecialK at 2:40 PM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]

The reddit info is from scanner chatter and police themselves are treating that situation as open ended thus far.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:41 PM on April 19, 2013

Haven't read the whole thread (this time), but why is everyone assuming he's under a dumpster or otherwise alone outdoors? I am far more worried (and it seems far more likely) there's another accomplice / friend with publicly clean hands we don't know about who's putting him up. Or is the assumption that because he escaped in Watertown he doesn't know anyone in that neighborhood? Did I miss something?
posted by Mchelly at 2:41 PM on April 19, 2013

So the car wasn't hijacked on Third, according to the police statement.

If it took them 2 minutes to get from Stata Center to 816 Mem Drive (Starbucks outside Trader Joe) then that's awful fast driving.
posted by shortfuse at 2:41 PM on April 19, 2013

Timeline on CNN just now (I know, they are hardly batting a thousand on this) indicated the younger brother drove away from the Watertown shootout, driving OVER his brother. Yikes.

So, if that is true, they know that vehicle. Manhunt house to house indicates he ditched it, and that would jibe with reports of a blood trail.

All routes out of the city ought to have been shut down by, what, an hour after the Watertown shootout?
posted by vrakatar at 2:42 PM on April 19, 2013

Thank you for the education, SpecialK.
posted by _paegan_ at 2:42 PM on April 19, 2013

Oh, and if you listen to the police scanners, you'll hear bomb sniffing dogs referred to as "EOD K-9 units", normal police dogs (which are usually trained to do things like sniffing out drugs, usually specific drugs, and take down fleeing suspects by running fast and biting them) as "police dogs" or just normal/plain K-9 units, and "search dogs" would be wide area search or tracking dogs.
posted by SpecialK at 2:43 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Thanks, SpecialK. I had seen that they were using bomb dogs, but not about tracking dogs. And I knew they didn't seem to be used so much any more, but not much about why.
posted by dilettante at 2:44 PM on April 19, 2013

I am far more worried (and it seems far more likely) there's another accomplice / friend with publicly clean hands we don't know about who's putting him up.

At this point, I would think the police know everyone he's called, emailed or texted within the last x number of years.
posted by drezdn at 2:44 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If this were a movie, they'd bring in Colton Harris-Moore as a consulting criminal.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:45 PM on April 19, 2013

Another (clearer) photo of the brothers at the Marathon.
posted by youandiandaflame at 2:45 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Time to 'Staht Drinking'!

We're having Dark & Stormies (Gosling).
posted by ericb at 2:45 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

Mother of suspect says Tamerlan was followed by FBI for 3 years. Further info from CNN (?!) coming . . .

Dzhokhar drove over Tamerlan's body with highjacked SUV to escape . . .
posted by Eyebeams at 2:47 PM on April 19, 2013

Further info from CNN (?!) coming . . .

Is that a threat?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:48 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

tapir-whorf: Folks over at Reddit are claiming that two suspects have been taken into custody, neither of which is "white hat." One of them, allegedly, is an elderly white male--presumably the same guy as earlier, though I haven't seen any gestures toward a resolution of the "old white guy with bomb vest in custody" story of 1pm-ish...

After the last few days, why is anyone bringing crap from Reddit into this thread? Do we need to participate in yet more harrassment of innocent people by those fuckwads?
posted by tavella at 2:49 PM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

And I knew they didn't seem to be used so much any more, but not much about why.

They're of limited utility in an urban area that's filled with people going about their business. Bomb dogs are, and drug dogs are, and dogs that can clear rooms so that their partners don't get shot are, but tracking and wide area search dogs aren't.

Tracking and wide area search dogs are mostly used to find people who wander off from old folks homes or kids who are lost in the wilderness (or people who are suicidal and wander off into the wilderness). Wide area search dogs are also used heavily in disasters like the one in West, Texas. They are very useful there to find people who are still alive inside collapsed buildings. But all the other people need to be cleared out of an area for that kind of searching ability to be useful. Which is one of the reasons that everyone's bottled up in their homes... it gives the police the ability to search a city block outdoors without other people interfering with a search.

Some of my friends are in West, TX right now deployed with Texas Task Force 1 Urban Search And Rescue.

As it gets dark, I expect them to bust out the FLIR-equipped helicopters and night goggles.
posted by SpecialK at 2:50 PM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]

Bomb dogs can only work for so long before they have to stop and rest. Presumably tracking dogs are the same way?
posted by Jahaza at 2:50 PM on April 19, 2013

Lindsey Graham may be many things, but he does not appear to be someone who understands U.S. law.

He and our current President do occasionally agree on a few things.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:51 PM on April 19, 2013

Haven't read the whole thread (this time), but why is everyone assuming he's under a dumpster or otherwise alone outdoors? I am far more worried (and it seems far more likely) there's another accomplice / friend with publicly clean hands we don't know about who's putting him up. Or is the assumption that because he escaped in Watertown he doesn't know anyone in that neighborhood?

My bet is that he pulled a favor from a friend who's willing to let him hide out for the day. I don't think the police are able to poke a flashlight into every utility room, attic, and closet in the Boston area.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:51 PM on April 19, 2013

How much is that in Smoots?

Honestly, I associate Smoots with the times I go over the Harvard Bridge when I'm out running, which is a stress reliever. So it's a negative number of some sort.
posted by A dead Quaker at 2:51 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Is there one site for all the images, or a page with links to all known images? (probably a silly question considering the potential volume, but....)
posted by fluffycreature at 2:52 PM on April 19, 2013

there's another accomplice / friend with publicly clean hands we don't know about who's putting him up

If he's hurt, there could be a Dr. Mudd. Or maybe he's already bled to death and the search is unwittingly looking for a dead guy.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 2:52 PM on April 19, 2013

Folks over at Reddit ... blah blah blah

I had heard mention of this over the scanner, but they have been detaining "subjects" all day. When you go house to house, some of the residents are not going to be 100% cooperative and some might be abusive.
posted by chemoboy at 2:53 PM on April 19, 2013

After the last few days, why is anyone bringing crap from Reddit into this thread? Do we need to participate in yet more harrassment of innocent people by those fuckwads?

Actually, the older white guy with a possible bomb with a suspected deadman trigger is actually a verifiable thing. They handcuffed him and let EOD deal with him.

There was a LOT of police radio traffic about it. They used two bomb robots. Then about half an hour later they released about half of the units to command center debrief them. I wasn't tracking the other units to see when they got released. However, we never heard what happened to the guy, and usually the police have been publicly clearing people.
posted by SpecialK at 2:53 PM on April 19, 2013

It's much more likely that the car was hijacked on Third St., near the MIT campus, then driven on Mem Drive, possibly to multiple ATMs, including one by Trader Joe's and one by the Shell Station, which are both on Mem Drive.
posted by Mapes at 2:54 PM on April 19, 2013

sweetkid: I could tell people can't make Indian/Hindu/Muslim/Arab distinctions and for my own reasons that chills me.

I had a similar reaction, reading about this last night, and when I first heard about the gurdwara shooting in Wisconsin.

Tripathi's poor family.... hope Sunil turns up soon.
posted by mayurasana at 2:54 PM on April 19, 2013

There's also idiots apparently walking around getting detained.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 2:54 PM on April 19, 2013

200 bullets exchanged with police and they don't hit him once? Possible, sure. Probable?

Unless they were snipers or such, I can easily believe 200 rounds downrange with no hits.

We're having Dark & Stormies (Gosling).

Dahrk an Stahrmies! Wicked Drink!
posted by eriko at 2:56 PM on April 19, 2013

All Things Considered is really living up to its name today, talking to a classmate about what one of the suspects was like in 4th grade.
posted by Jahaza at 2:57 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Bomb dogs can only work for so long before they have to stop and rest. Presumably tracking dogs are the same way?

Agreed. And we can't hear the tac channel that the search units are using except when search division commanders check in with incident command, and those are usually incident reports or completion reports instead of mundane things like checking into and out of a search section for rehab. But yes, they R&R the units after they complete each section. A dog is really like a two year old child. The dog is trained that it's task, such as searching, is a game it gets rewarded for when it finds the thing you want it to find. And there's only so long you can make a 2 year old play without getting a reward, and you can't give the dog a reward for finding nothing.

So, yes, they get a lot of downtime.
posted by SpecialK at 2:58 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

specialk, If it's "verifiable" then you can link to an actual law enforcement report, not Reddit. So far they've terrorized a highschooler and caused unimaginable agony to the parents of a missing kid, blackened the name of a third person, and caused shit for any number of other people they were doxxing and spreadding pictures of in their charming little witchhunt. Why the hell are we helping them?
posted by tavella at 2:59 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Unless they were snipers or such, I can easily believe 200 rounds downrange with no hits.

Also, remember that there in fact were multiple hits on the other suspect and wasn't a policeman hospitalized as well (in addition to the one killed)?
posted by Jahaza at 2:59 PM on April 19, 2013

Thanks, Special K, about the dog info. The scanner last night would occaisionally mention needing 'fresh dogs' and considering that they're bringing dogs up from NY and maybe other regions, it implied a certain time period of effectiveness.

Last night about outing the Brown student was really weird. The scanner named one guy, who was later released and then the scanner site went down for several people for a few minutes. During that window, that's when the tweets came out about Sunil.

I hope this all ends soon.
posted by zix at 3:00 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Does anyone have a sense of whether the police are willing or able to transport people who live in Watertown elsewhere? Depending on how long this goes on, someone's liable to run out of food or meds or whatnot. Could that account for some of the "subjects"?
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:00 PM on April 19, 2013

Depending on how long this goes on, someone's liable to run out of food or meds or whatnot.

I heard a prescription delivery a few hours ago. Police escorted.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:02 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

They seem to be close to calling their initiall search 100%. What then?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 3:02 PM on April 19, 2013

Holy crap... there are units who have been out for over 24 hours checking in.
posted by SpecialK at 3:03 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

A friend in Boston said on Facebook that she was nearly had a heart attack when UPS came to drop off a package. The shoes must get through!
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:04 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

One minute later, however, authorities allege that the brothers did shoot and kill MIT Police Oficer Sean A. Collier as the officer sat in his MIT cruiser.
Two minutes later, authorities receive a call that a car has been carjacked by two men outside 816 Memorial Drive. A short time later – it was not immediately clear – a Transit Police officer spots the vehicle and pursues, a chase that came to a stop in Watertown.’

Where is this police statement? The timing and sequence doesn't add up from what I'm reading elsewhere.
posted by murfed13 at 3:04 PM on April 19, 2013

200 bullets exchanged with police and they don't hit him once? Possible, sure. Probable?

According to this timeline (see number 6), a police SUV was driven towards the brothers during the gun battle. The two managed to "severely damage" by shooting at it. So that may have accounted for a lot of the 200 bullets.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:04 PM on April 19, 2013

After the last few days, why is anyone bringing crap from Reddit into this thread? Do we need to participate in yet more harrassment of innocent people by those fuckwads?

We also bring crap from CNN. And, frankly, Reddit's been more reliable.
posted by _paegan_ at 3:05 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

As my wife pointed out to me this morning, it's a bad day to go into labor in Boston today.
posted by 445supermag at 3:05 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

CNN is really having a meltdown this week.
posted by mediated self at 3:05 PM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]

Holy crap... there are units who have been out for over 24 hours checking in.

Adrenalin is a hell of a drug!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 3:05 PM on April 19, 2013

BobbyVan: And/or mentally ill, of course.

Haven't seen any evidence to support that, yet.

Nor to dispute it, which means it's possible, and hardly unlikely (based on previous terrorists in the US).
posted by IAmBroom at 3:06 PM on April 19, 2013

meditated self - what the hell is that? Sincere question - I don't have access to CNN here.
posted by terrierhead at 3:07 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

They seem to be close to calling their initiall search 100%. What then?

I suspect from radio traffic that they were doing what's called an area search. That means that they think that the suspect is in an area, so they set up a perimeter, then they break the inside of the area down into big chunks and little chunks, station an officer at certain posts, and proceed to search the area little chunk by chunk until the big chunks are done.

It sounds like they're almost done with certain big chunks.
posted by SpecialK at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013

Press conference has just stated.
posted by ericb at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013

I heard mention of the older man in custody too, I just haven't heard anything more about it on the scanner.
posted by klangklangston at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013

Holy crap... there are units who have been out for over 24 hours checking in.

Keep in mind that these folks also had a major memorial service and a hastily arranged presidential visit yesterday morning, which also required massive law enforcement resources to secure.
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

MBTA is reopened, effective immediately, and the stay-inside order is lifted.
posted by Kosh at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013

Per live press conference, stay indoors order is lifted and the T is starting back up effective immediately.
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013

terrierhead: meditated self - what the hell is that? Sincere question - I don't have access to CNN here.

I would guess she's trying to get the attention of the producers in the network center.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Well, they're lifting the curfew.
posted by Jahaza at 3:08 PM on April 19, 2013

ericb: "Press conference has just stated."

Link to stream?
posted by Strass at 3:09 PM on April 19, 2013

Lockdown lifted. MBTA is open. Keep vigilant.
posted by ericb at 3:09 PM on April 19, 2013

The T is back?!

*raises tiny can of Gosling's pre-mixed d&s to mefi*

hey it was a gift
posted by ghostbikes at 3:09 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

"Things are going to be different; we're going to see saturated patrols."

Saturated with what?
posted by benbenson at 3:10 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

So I stayed inside scared out of my head all day for... ?
posted by sonika at 3:10 PM on April 19, 2013

WCVB live stream.
posted by ericb at 3:11 PM on April 19, 2013

After the last few days, why is anyone bringing crap from Reddit into this thread? Do we need to participate in yet more harrassment of innocent people by those fuckwads?

We also bring crap from CNN. And, frankly, Reddit's been more reliable.

I said something about this last night in the other thread, but really, I don't think it's fair to shit on the whole of reddit for the awful, terrible, irresponsible actions of a few. The mods of that subreddit clamped down on the speculation and were actively deleting the threads and directing those there to NOT name any names. Further, I frequented that subreddit a good majority of the evening and watched the whole thing transpire and a huge chunk of redditors were calling for it to be cut out and trying really hard to downvote that speculation into oblivion.

If a couple people here on metafilter had done the same thing and the mods and other commenters weren't able to quash it before it got out of hand, I really don't think I'd hold the entirety of metafilter responsible for that.
posted by youandiandaflame at 3:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]

So I stayed inside scared out of my head all day for... ?

I realize this thread is huge, but ... you stayed inside scared out of your head so that the police could conduct an area search for a guy who was part of killing three or four other people and injuring hundreds in a really serious and bloody way. They thought the guy was inside the boundaries of the area they were searching in and wanted you to at least have a wall between you and inevitable bullets when they find them.
posted by SpecialK at 3:12 PM on April 19, 2013 [38 favorites]

Does anyone know what led to this stage of the hunt? The first thing listed on the Globe and NYTimes timelines is the shooting of the MIT cop, anyone know what provoked that?
posted by benbenson at 3:13 PM on April 19, 2013

"Saturated with what?"

Urine, mostly.
posted by klangklangston at 3:14 PM on April 19, 2013

To add to what SpecialK said about bomb-sniffing: the activity itself is very intense. None of or senses are as tuned as a dog's sense of smell, but the best human equivalent I can think of is trying to find Waldo: even if you're really good at it, scrutinizing map the size of a gymnasium floor will exhaust you pretty quick.
posted by griphus at 3:15 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

So the 'saturated patrols' are for...'comfort'???
posted by kitcat at 3:16 PM on April 19, 2013

They didn't rob the 7-11. They were in the store when somebody else robbed it and were caught on camera.

We are living in 24 now.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:17 PM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]

Okay, because I checked out and now can barely put together the confirmed from suspected from speculation and CNN is no freaking help, can I ask what the hell happened today? the 7-11 wasn't connected but a Shell station was? They're chasing this guy based on photographs? There are other guys in custody? Reddit fingered the wrong person in the night? He shot an MIT officer because? I just need like, a timeline.
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on April 19, 2013

Search teams are WICKED PISSED that the governor let the public back onto the streets before they had a chance to finish.
posted by SpecialK at 3:18 PM on April 19, 2013

The first thing listed on the Globe and NYTimes timelines is the shooting of the MIT cop, anyone know what provoked that?

I don't believe that's publicly known at this point.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:19 PM on April 19, 2013

A reporter just asked "Have you learned anything new in the last 8 hours?" Answer: "No"
posted by knapah at 3:19 PM on April 19, 2013

They didn't rob the 7-11. They were in the store when somebody else robbed it and were caught on camera.

I thought that it was that they did in fact rob the Shell station convenience store, and somehow "convenience store" morphed into "7-11"?
posted by scody at 3:20 PM on April 19, 2013

After the last few days, why is anyone bringing crap from Reddit into this thread?

Their livefeeds have been a lot better than MeFi, for one thing.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:20 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

So the 'saturated patrols' are for...'comfort'???

Basically, that, and because they're presumably concerned that he'll return to the area. And because while they may be pretty sure that he's left the area, it's still a very real possibility that he's holed up in a basement somewhere nearby.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:20 PM on April 19, 2013

BobbyVan: And/or mentally ill, of course. Haven't seen any evidence to support that, yet.

IAmBroom: Nor to dispute it, which means it's possible, and hardly unlikely (based on previous terrorists in the US).

Can we please stop the hate and prejudice directed at people with mental illness? There is no strong link connecting violence and mental illness -- a person with mental illness is more likely to be a victim of violence, not its perpetrator (as has been said before).
posted by docjohn at 3:20 PM on April 19, 2013 [22 favorites]

So instead of immediately jumping to "what the police are doing is all wrong!" I would encourage people to take a few minutes and try to imagine themselves in charge of this search effort and decide what they would do that would be clearly superior, keeping in mind that:

1) You don't want anyone else killed
2) You want to find your suspect twelve hours ago
3) You don't want to keep transit and the populace sitting idle any longer than absolutely necessary

What if the suspect shows up on a train in two hours, holding five hostages and wearing a suicide vest with a deadman's switch. Will you still be convinced of your course of action? What if it turns out that his corpse has been getting cold in some bizarre cranny somewhere, can you defend your decisions?
posted by kavasa at 3:21 PM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]

Actually they paid for gas. Go figure.
posted by murfed13 at 3:21 PM on April 19, 2013

I get what the stay inside order was FOR, I guess I'm just expressing my impotent rage that from the civilian stick inside POV it seemed fruitless. I get that it was important, I've just been in my house with a 2yr old and had the hope that there would be some kind of "resolution" at the end of this.
posted by sonika at 3:21 PM on April 19, 2013

Yeah, this NBC report has them robbing a 7-Eleven after they shot the MIT cop.

Dunno WTF actually happened yet.
posted by klangklangston at 3:22 PM on April 19, 2013

I thought that it was that they did in fact rob the Shell station convenience store, and somehow "convenience store" morphed into "7-11"?

He specifically said they were at the 7-11.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:23 PM on April 19, 2013

(Also not objecting to the order itself, I understand entirely where law enforcement was coming from. Basically it's been a stressful day and I feel a zillion times less safe than I did this morning.)
posted by sonika at 3:23 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If this first-hand account is to be believed, keep your eyes peeled for a very nervous 19-year-old who's not carrying a mobile phone.

[via TPM] Gilberto Junior, 44, said that the man, who has been identified as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, appeared to be “very nervous.”

“He was biting his fingernails, and was shaky,” Junior said.

Tsarnaev had dropped off the car, which Junior described as a white Mercedes wagon, at the auto shop about two weeks earlier. It had rear bumper damage, and Tsarnaev had said it was his girlfriend’s. On Tuesday, when Tsarnaev suddenly returned, Junior told him the car wasn’t ready.

“I don’t care, I don’t care, I don’t care, I need the car right now,” Tsarnaev said, according to Junior.
posted by wensink at 3:24 PM on April 19, 2013

What if the suspect shows up on a train in two hours, holding five hostages and wearing a suicide vest with a deadman's switch. Will you still be convinced of your course of action? What if it turns out that his corpse has been getting cold in some bizarre cranny somehow, can you defend your decisions?

Gotta say I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions. Worst job in the world today.
posted by double bubble at 3:24 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

(Also not objecting to the order itself, I understand entirely where law enforcement was coming from. Basically it's been a stressful day and I feel a zillion times less safe than I did this morning.)

Then it's a pretty good thing you stayed inside today!
posted by mudpuppie at 3:24 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

If the suspect fled on foot, and the lockdown is now lifted, why didn't Col. Alben tell everyone, "Please go check to see if your car is still there, and if it's not text me the license plate number ASAP."
posted by Eyebeams at 3:25 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

So I stayed inside scared out of my head all day for... ?

... Quality time with your family!
posted by ericb at 3:25 PM on April 19, 2013

Actually they paid for gas. Go figure.

Not paying for gas calls attention to themselves, which is probably the last thing they wanted.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:25 PM on April 19, 2013

There is no strong link connecting violence and mental illness -- a person with mental illness is more likely to be a victim of violence, not its perpetrator (as has been said before).

The relative chance of a person with mental illness being a victim or a perpetrator seems to have nothing at all to do with how likely a perpetrator is to have mental illness.

I'm not saying "he must have mental illness" is necessarily right (in fact if pressed I'd say it depends on what the person saying it means by "mental illness") but "more likely victim than perp" does not seem to me to be a valid rebuttal to it.
posted by Flunkie at 3:25 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

Yeah it sucks a lot, sonika. I hope for you and everyone else there's a definitive end soon.
posted by kavasa at 3:26 PM on April 19, 2013

So instead of immediately jumping to "what the police are doing is all wrong!"

Sorry, didn't mean to do that. It was an honest question. I'm impressed by their level-headedness.
posted by kitcat at 3:26 PM on April 19, 2013

I'm not listening to the scanner at the moment -- are the searchers expressing dismay that the shelter-in-place order is lifted?
posted by Unified Theory at 3:27 PM on April 19, 2013

Dzhokhar drove over Tamerlan's body with highjacked SUV to escape . . .

Nope. The man JUST said he escaped on foot.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:27 PM on April 19, 2013

Well, lifted lockdown or no, it's not like anything in Watertown is open, anyway. Grocery shopping tomorrow should be interesting.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:27 PM on April 19, 2013

Dudes, lay off the guilt tripping. Complaining about how members of govt/law enforcement are doing their job is the American way.
posted by murfed13 at 3:27 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

CNN lady: "A lot of terrorists ARE brothers."
posted by Eyebeams at 3:28 PM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]

The fact that they didn't do anything to particularly disguise themselves when they left the bombs and then again when they bought gas at a convenience store last night suggests they don't much care about coming out of this alive (or to be found not guilty). Their behavior last night suggests two men who don't really care what happens to them.

They are either completely oblivious to the prevalence of security cameras in modern society. Or they don't care that their faces are being captured on camera.
posted by docjohn at 3:28 PM on April 19, 2013

So, no statement from the FBI?
posted by dorkydancer at 3:29 PM on April 19, 2013

are the searchers expressing dismay that the shelter-in-place order is lifted?

Nope, it seems to have changed little. They are still tracking movements and talking about individuals.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 3:29 PM on April 19, 2013

"I'm not listening to the scanner at the moment -- are the searchers expressing dismay that the shelter-in-place order is lifted?"

A lot of it now is seemingly unrelated stuff, like some couple detained "on the hill" wherever that is.
posted by klangklangston at 3:30 PM on April 19, 2013

are the searchers expressing dismay that the shelter-in-place order is lifted?

Both law enforcement and other agencies are definitely expressing dismay and asking for instructions as people are headed out into the streets.
posted by SpecialK at 3:30 PM on April 19, 2013

kitcat, "helping people feel safe" is in my view a central purpose of law enforcement, so yeah, comfort is part of it.

I'm sure they're also hoping that the suspect will emerge as night falls and that a patrol officer will spot him.

murfed - not really guilt tripping? I just don't think that the alternative is really helpful for anyone.
posted by kavasa at 3:31 PM on April 19, 2013

Trying to figure out if this general lockdown lift applies to my aunts, due to their proximity to the crime scenes. If they can, we're working on getting them out to a place where they can feel safe tonight. If anyone hears anything about this, particularly folks who have been in the perimeter in Watertown, please let me know here or by MeMail. I greatly appreciate it!

They had their home thoroughly searched and cleared by the SWAT team crews earlier, who they said were very friendly given the circumstances.
posted by rollbiz at 3:31 PM on April 19, 2013

Flunkie: The relative chance of a person with mental illness being a victim or a perpetrator seems to have nothing at all to do with how likely a perpetrator is to have mental illness.

Except when it's used as a short-hand excuse to explain criminal behavior others can't understand. Most criminal behavior is not readily explainable to most people, because most people are law-abiding citizens.
posted by docjohn at 3:31 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Here's an IndieGoGo fundraiser for Dic Donohue, the injured MBTA officer. It looks to have been started by classmates of his.
posted by youandiandaflame at 3:34 PM on April 19, 2013

Complaining about how members of govt/law enforcement are doing their job is the American way.

Not here, not today.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:35 PM on April 19, 2013

No, "more likely victim than perp" doesn't have anything to do with the chance of a perpetrator having mental illness regardless of whether "he has mental illness" is used as an excuse or not.

Again, I'm not saying that "he has mental illness" is necessarily a good conclusion, and you may very well be 100% correct that it is in fact a bad conclusion. But your reason for saying it's a bad conclusion does not actually show that.
posted by Flunkie at 3:35 PM on April 19, 2013

It would be just as valid to blame "he likes to read Hemingway" or "he likes to watch CSI" as the reasons. It's a non sequitur.
posted by docjohn at 3:37 PM on April 19, 2013

Reading Hemingway has a lower correlation with anti-social and violent action. I mean, I understand what you're doing, but isn't it fair to, say, note the mental illness of the ricin guy more than the Elvis impersonator thing?
posted by klangklangston at 3:40 PM on April 19, 2013

Reports on Twitter that online access to police scanner is no longer available. Can anyone confirm?
posted by wensink at 3:41 PM on April 19, 2013

That may very well be true. I am not arguing that it is not true. But again, the reason you gave to attempt to show that it is true does not show that it is true.

I'm not sure how to be more clear on this. You seem to be arguing with me as if I mean that "he must be mentally ill" is a good conclusion, despite me repeatedly explicitly saying exactly the opposite. So I guess I'll just drop it now.
posted by Flunkie at 3:42 PM on April 19, 2013

Not here, not today.

I know what you are getting at, but the idea that you can't criticize the govt or law enforcement in times of crisis is an extremely dangerous one.

That being said, I am very thankful for the men and women who are out there protecting us in a very scary situation.
posted by murfed13 at 3:43 PM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]

After the last few days, why is anyone bringing crap from Reddit into this thread?

Their livefeeds have been a lot better than MeFi, for one thing.

True that.

"My son would never do this. My son ... it is a set up. He was counseled by FBI like for 3, 5 years. They knew what my son was doing. They knew what actions and what sites on the Internet he was going. They used to come home and talk to me. They used to tell me that they are counseling his, they were telling me that he is really a serious leader and they are afraid of him."

- Zubeidat Tsarnaeva
posted by mrgrimm at 3:43 PM on April 19, 2013

Looking at some of the updates posted from the scanner, these guys are going to be chasing anyone that looks remotely like him and sending EOD teams to any bag that's found.

I'd rather it be like this than the way it was when the LAPD was hunting for Dorner.
posted by azpenguin at 3:44 PM on April 19, 2013

docjohn: "It would be just as valid to blame "he likes to read Hemingway" or "he likes to watch CSI" as the reasons. It's a non sequitur."

No no no... It's "Catcher in the Rye".
posted by symbioid at 3:44 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]

Reports on Twitter that online access to police scanner is no longer available. Can anyone confirm?

The ustream link that's been on all day is gone, but another has popped up.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:44 PM on April 19, 2013

Juan Cole: Fathers and Sons and Chechnya
posted by homunculus at 3:44 PM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]

Reports on Twitter that online access to police scanner is no longer available. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks a lot, Reddit. *Metafilter punches Reddit in arm; Reddit howls "mo-ommmm!!!!" from backseat; Mom goes all I WILL TURN THIS CAR RIGHT AROUND AND THEN NO ONE IS GOING TO DISNEYLAND IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT DO NOT TEST ME*
posted by scody at 3:45 PM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]

CBS News: FBI now acknowledges they interviewed Tsarnaev 2 years ago at the request of a foreign country about possible extremist ties
posted by BobbyVan at