The red planet or else!
May 7, 2013 11:30 AM Subscribe
Don't you mean on the way to Mars?
posted by bondcliff at 11:37 AM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by bondcliff at 11:37 AM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
As someone who believes Total Recall is an absolutely accurate depiction of Mars, let me just say thanks but no thanks.
posted by selfnoise at 11:38 AM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 11:38 AM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
Well, if the choice is to die in one year on Earth, or die in one year on Mars, I don't know what the correct answer is.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:40 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 11:40 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Free — free
a trip to Mars
for 900
empty jars
Burma-Shave
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:41 AM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
Such an unprecedented one-way trip that steps humanity forward really shouldn't be done under the guise of a reality tv show. I just...don't think it's right.
posted by hellojed at 11:41 AM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by hellojed at 11:41 AM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's cool if you sign others up, right?
posted by QueerAngel28 at 11:42 AM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
posted by QueerAngel28 at 11:42 AM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
Yeah, I really don't get this. I'd love to go to Mars as a tourist, but to live there? It's a dump. It's about 100 times less habitable than the Gobi desert. Eventually your morning cry of "Holy crap! I'm on Mars!" will change to "Crap. I'm on Mars", when you finally realize that you are 100 million miles from a decent sushi restaurant and can't breathe the air.
People talk about the pioneers who came to the Americas, but the colonists only had to spend a few weeks on a boat. Once they arrived they were able to go outside. The Mars colonists are going to spend the rest of their lives on that boat.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 11:43 AM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
People talk about the pioneers who came to the Americas, but the colonists only had to spend a few weeks on a boat. Once they arrived they were able to go outside. The Mars colonists are going to spend the rest of their lives on that boat.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 11:43 AM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
Meet the thousands of people ready to die on Mars.
That's one way to get organic matter into the soil.
posted by eriko at 11:45 AM on May 7, 2013 [35 favorites]
That's one way to get organic matter into the soil.
posted by eriko at 11:45 AM on May 7, 2013 [35 favorites]
If it's anything like Kim Stanley Robinson's books then it may not be a one way trip...
posted by daHIFI at 11:46 AM on May 7, 2013
posted by daHIFI at 11:46 AM on May 7, 2013
That's one way to get organic matter into the soil.
Coffee all over my keyboard. Thanks.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:47 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Coffee all over my keyboard. Thanks.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:47 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I truly, deeply, passionately want to go to Mars, and am capable of being optimistic about almost anything. I don't care if it ends up being a reality show, if that's what it takes. BUT
Mars One is seems really scammy, or at best half-baked. They're asking for money without any clear detailed plan for what they're going to do, in sharp contrast to SpaceX or even that quixotic Planetary Resources asteroid mining scheme. They had a pretty disasterous AMA on Reddit.
Maybe it could work but I think this is more akin to those bogus land deals that bankrupted suckers during the gold rush than real exploration of Mars. Good luck to them if they can do it, but I don't see how they're going to raise the $6 billion they think they'd need, must less the $20 billion+ outside observers have suggested is more realistic.
posted by Wretch729 at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
Mars One is seems really scammy, or at best half-baked. They're asking for money without any clear detailed plan for what they're going to do, in sharp contrast to SpaceX or even that quixotic Planetary Resources asteroid mining scheme. They had a pretty disasterous AMA on Reddit.
Maybe it could work but I think this is more akin to those bogus land deals that bankrupted suckers during the gold rush than real exploration of Mars. Good luck to them if they can do it, but I don't see how they're going to raise the $6 billion they think they'd need, must less the $20 billion+ outside observers have suggested is more realistic.
posted by Wretch729 at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids. In fact, it's cold as hell.
posted by Foosnark at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2013 [13 favorites]
Mars Attracts!
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:48 AM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
So, space exploration financed by the TV rights? Yeah, I liked Defying Gravity OK.
posted by tyllwin at 11:50 AM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by tyllwin at 11:50 AM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I really don't get this. I'd love to go to Mars as a tourist, but to live there?
If a one way trip to Mars was offered to me (and was more serious than just a stunt for a reality tv show?
In a heartbeat. Imagine being one of the first people on an alien planet; even if you die on the way you're sure of a place in history, if only as "those stupid fsckers who thought they'd stroll to mars as if to the cornershop".
And who knows, I might be the one to stumble over that ancient, long buried alien technology that'll give humanity the stars.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:51 AM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
If a one way trip to Mars was offered to me (and was more serious than just a stunt for a reality tv show?
In a heartbeat. Imagine being one of the first people on an alien planet; even if you die on the way you're sure of a place in history, if only as "those stupid fsckers who thought they'd stroll to mars as if to the cornershop".
And who knows, I might be the one to stumble over that ancient, long buried alien technology that'll give humanity the stars.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:51 AM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
They're asking for money without any clear detailed plan for what they're going to do
So you're saying they're the kickstarter of space 'exploration'. Ok, I can dig that. It may be fun to watch from the sidelines though.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:51 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
So you're saying they're the kickstarter of space 'exploration'. Ok, I can dig that. It may be fun to watch from the sidelines though.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:51 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't care if a space mission gets funded soft drink endorsements. I care if the mission is a fraud.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:51 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:51 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
"It’s just a matter of marshaling resources and initiative to get there."Sounds like they know what they're doing. The details will just sort of work themselves out, I'm sure.
posted by usonian at 11:52 AM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
would this be the original UK Life On Mars or the US remake?
posted by GuyZero at 11:53 AM on May 7, 2013
posted by GuyZero at 11:53 AM on May 7, 2013
[insert gif of Bryan Cranston's character on Archer screaming "MAAAAAAAAAARS" here]
posted by the brave tetra-pak at 11:55 AM on May 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by the brave tetra-pak at 11:55 AM on May 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
I would go, but my girlfriend says I can't. Yes, read that how you will.
I would want my appendix and tonsils out before I strapped on the rocket though, and I need a couple iPads and some huge drive space so the trip isn't boring.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:55 AM on May 7, 2013
I would want my appendix and tonsils out before I strapped on the rocket though, and I need a couple iPads and some huge drive space so the trip isn't boring.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:55 AM on May 7, 2013
even if you die on the way you're sure of a place in history, if only as "those stupid fsckers who thought they'd stroll to mars as if to the cornershop".
Oh, I would too, but that doesn't make me want to pump money into a scam
posted by tyllwin at 11:57 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, I would too, but that doesn't make me want to pump money into a scam
posted by tyllwin at 11:57 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Mars colonists are going to spend the rest of their lives on that boat.
..with Farty McFartbottom.
posted by eriko at 11:57 AM on May 7, 2013
..with Farty McFartbottom.
posted by eriko at 11:57 AM on May 7, 2013
I can believe they have faith in SpaceX getting Falcon Heavy online and cheap and Dragon man-rated in 10 years. But I think the landing problem is much bigger than anyone is willing to admit, and not likely to be solved easily. That's why Curiosity's landing was so weird and complicated. The problem is that Mars has enough atmosphere to burn you to a crisp but not enough to slow you down enough before you hit the surface. Given any solution it's the sort of thing that will have to be tested on Mars itself before committing a massive multi-landing mission to it.
posted by localroger at 11:57 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 11:57 AM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
One thing is clear: America must not let another nation's citizens die a horrible death on Mars before the first Americans have died a horrible death on Mars.
posted by brain_drain at 11:58 AM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by brain_drain at 11:58 AM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
Free — free
a trip to Mars
for 900
empty jars
Burma-Shave
Puffery! At least, that was the decision in Leonard v. Pepsico, Inc., in which John Leonard tried to buy a Harrier jet with a certified check for $700,008.50, 15 points, and a $10 shipping and handling fee.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on May 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
a trip to Mars
for 900
empty jars
Burma-Shave
Puffery! At least, that was the decision in Leonard v. Pepsico, Inc., in which John Leonard tried to buy a Harrier jet with a certified check for $700,008.50, 15 points, and a $10 shipping and handling fee.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on May 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
People keep talking about how the US got from unmanned orbit to the moon in 10 years. However, NASA's very first step wasn't to charge astronaut recruits $38 a pop for the privilege of applying. $38 x 30,000 - I can do the math and I'm wondering where this million dollars is going.
posted by muddgirl at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by muddgirl at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2013
Overhead.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:00 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
But they promise to make it up on volume.
posted by 2bucksplus at 12:02 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by 2bucksplus at 12:02 PM on May 7, 2013
No love for my obscure Latin etymological pun? Disasterous? Anybody?
posted by Wretch729 at 12:03 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by Wretch729 at 12:03 PM on May 7, 2013
Meet the thousands of people ready to die on Mars
Look, I know Ray Harryhausen is dead, but this won't bring him back, people!
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Look, I know Ray Harryhausen is dead, but this won't bring him back, people!
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
gotta die somewhere
posted by devon at 12:05 PM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by devon at 12:05 PM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
"Disasterous"? Why, that pun is un-BEAR-able. (Ursa Major! Kaboom!)
posted by grahamsletter at 12:05 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by grahamsletter at 12:05 PM on May 7, 2013
And who knows, I might be the one to stumble over that ancient, long buried alien technology that'll give humanity the stars.
Panzer Kunst?
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:06 PM on May 7, 2013
Panzer Kunst?
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:06 PM on May 7, 2013
Clearly, we send an all-star cast of death row inmates
posted by The Whelk at 12:08 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 12:08 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Huge elaborate space scams that potentially ruin peoples lives kind of feel even more science-fictioney than actual space travel.
posted by aubilenon at 12:09 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 12:09 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Apparently they need women.
Maybe they should send only gingers so that it can truly be a red planet.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:10 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Maybe they should send only gingers so that it can truly be a red planet.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:10 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hell, I'd do it. If I weren't completely unqualified and not really interested in putting in the work to BE qualified, I'd do it. I love to travel. I love space. I want to go somewhere and do something that nobody's ever done before. Long ride out there? Awesome. I'll fill up my kindle and finally have a chance to get through my Enormous List of Books to Read.
Of course, the Kindle would probably break upon leaving Earth's atmosphere and I'd be like the guy in that Twilight Zone episode. Noooooooooooooooo.....
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:13 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course, the Kindle would probably break upon leaving Earth's atmosphere and I'd be like the guy in that Twilight Zone episode. Noooooooooooooooo.....
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:13 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The story is the $40 charge to apply. What a scam! Hell, if I respond to a spam message and pay $39.99 for anti-virus software or c1ali$ at least I might receive something in return.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
For the sake of any Mars-born descendants of these "colonists," I hope that whatever earnest gullibility inspires them is not inheritable.
posted by exogenous at 12:17 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by exogenous at 12:17 PM on May 7, 2013
However, NASA's very first step wasn't to charge astronaut recruits $38 a pop for the privilege of applying.
Hey! That's a bargain! A MENSA application costs $40.
(I'm tempted to blow 38 bucks on one just for the thrill of listing my occupation as "telephone sanitizer.")
posted by octobersurprise at 12:18 PM on May 7, 2013 [9 favorites]
Hey! That's a bargain! A MENSA application costs $40.
(I'm tempted to blow 38 bucks on one just for the thrill of listing my occupation as "telephone sanitizer.")
posted by octobersurprise at 12:18 PM on May 7, 2013 [9 favorites]
lol suckers, im staying here on earth and running my twitter while i get fat from tiny food
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 12:19 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 12:19 PM on May 7, 2013
The so-called "Lost Colony" had it made by comparison.
posted by kinnakeet at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by kinnakeet at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2013
Such an unprecedented one-way trip that steps humanity forward really shouldn't be done under the guise of a reality tv show. I just...don't think it's right.
That was my first response as well – let's not cheapen something as epic and important as space exploration with funky aroma of reality television.
Watching these videos has provided quite a bit of food for thought. There are 7 billion people on the Earth, each trying to differentiate themselves from everyone else. And everyone has different reasons for going. But the "reality" is that this is a unique opportunity in history, and they want to seize it. If the mission is legit, these are the next wave of pioneers.
When humans started sailing across oceans, there was undoubtably a huge failure rate. And anyone embarking would have known that, but they still went, yeah? Heaps and heaps of people still boarded boats and sailed straight into most likely death. Occasionally, someone would return. With stories. With riches. They were the ancient celebrities. Some of their names have lived for centuries. That was the ultimate prize. And for those that did not claim that, they were able to claim a unique experience wholly unknown by those they left behind. Think of the majesty of an ancient exploration. Every day, a unique horizon. Some days were horrible. Some amazing. Yet, that was ultimate presence. Living in a real moment of excitement, even for a short duration. Say what we will about the dangers and the failure rates and everything else. Tons of people signed up just for the opportunity to take that risk.
And this next wave is no different. With 7 billion people on the earth, the chance of most people to have An Exceptional Life is low. Hence all the self-help books about maximising presence and Making Every Day Amazing. Pass On A Coffee. Run A Marathon. Go Build A House In The Jungle. We crave adventure and excitement, yet the vast majority of us will see only contained adventure and safe excitement. We have worked so hard to build a safe, permanent society with minimal risk... that when you give people the opportunity to go on a one-way trip to space, with a high probability of failure, they sign up in droves.
They are the new explorers – or at least the idea of being new explorers appeals to them. It will be fascinating to see the conversion rate from application to astronaut.
"Oh yeah, Mars. You know, I don't really want to go die in space. I just got a new girlfriend/boyfriend/job/dog/cat/subscription to the Economist/etc."
But there will be some who are ready to go. Full-well knowing that it's a one-way trip. There would probably be a lot less people if it was not a reality show, for now, they get two hits in one go. Explore space whilst becoming a celebrity. In fact, if it was not televised, it now seems like the bigger waste.
Voyeurs and citizen scientists alike will go on the voyage with the explorers. Now, it's not simply an opportunity to go explore and satisfy one's own ambitions. No, this group will get to be the first narrators of life toward Mars. Hundreds of millions of people will see space through them. It will be their words and their ideas, beamed back to Earth for posterity. They do not have to have a successful mission to return and gain celebrity, now the journey and celebrity become intertwined.
And they will be broadcasting for the world to see. If pirates can put up prime time television shows within hours of airing in any geography, everyone on the planet will have access to the footage of the space trip. It is not a small group of crazy attention-seeking people going to Mars. We Are All Going To Mars, and they're our tour guides.
posted by nickrussell at 12:28 PM on May 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
That was my first response as well – let's not cheapen something as epic and important as space exploration with funky aroma of reality television.
Watching these videos has provided quite a bit of food for thought. There are 7 billion people on the Earth, each trying to differentiate themselves from everyone else. And everyone has different reasons for going. But the "reality" is that this is a unique opportunity in history, and they want to seize it. If the mission is legit, these are the next wave of pioneers.
When humans started sailing across oceans, there was undoubtably a huge failure rate. And anyone embarking would have known that, but they still went, yeah? Heaps and heaps of people still boarded boats and sailed straight into most likely death. Occasionally, someone would return. With stories. With riches. They were the ancient celebrities. Some of their names have lived for centuries. That was the ultimate prize. And for those that did not claim that, they were able to claim a unique experience wholly unknown by those they left behind. Think of the majesty of an ancient exploration. Every day, a unique horizon. Some days were horrible. Some amazing. Yet, that was ultimate presence. Living in a real moment of excitement, even for a short duration. Say what we will about the dangers and the failure rates and everything else. Tons of people signed up just for the opportunity to take that risk.
And this next wave is no different. With 7 billion people on the earth, the chance of most people to have An Exceptional Life is low. Hence all the self-help books about maximising presence and Making Every Day Amazing. Pass On A Coffee. Run A Marathon. Go Build A House In The Jungle. We crave adventure and excitement, yet the vast majority of us will see only contained adventure and safe excitement. We have worked so hard to build a safe, permanent society with minimal risk... that when you give people the opportunity to go on a one-way trip to space, with a high probability of failure, they sign up in droves.
They are the new explorers – or at least the idea of being new explorers appeals to them. It will be fascinating to see the conversion rate from application to astronaut.
"Oh yeah, Mars. You know, I don't really want to go die in space. I just got a new girlfriend/boyfriend/job/dog/cat/subscription to the Economist/etc."
But there will be some who are ready to go. Full-well knowing that it's a one-way trip. There would probably be a lot less people if it was not a reality show, for now, they get two hits in one go. Explore space whilst becoming a celebrity. In fact, if it was not televised, it now seems like the bigger waste.
Voyeurs and citizen scientists alike will go on the voyage with the explorers. Now, it's not simply an opportunity to go explore and satisfy one's own ambitions. No, this group will get to be the first narrators of life toward Mars. Hundreds of millions of people will see space through them. It will be their words and their ideas, beamed back to Earth for posterity. They do not have to have a successful mission to return and gain celebrity, now the journey and celebrity become intertwined.
And they will be broadcasting for the world to see. If pirates can put up prime time television shows within hours of airing in any geography, everyone on the planet will have access to the footage of the space trip. It is not a small group of crazy attention-seeking people going to Mars. We Are All Going To Mars, and they're our tour guides.
posted by nickrussell at 12:28 PM on May 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
So, space exploration financed by the TV rights? Yeah, I liked Defying Gravity OK.
Better hope the ratings work or ABC might pull the plug before you even make it out of the neighborhood.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013
Better hope the ratings work or ABC might pull the plug before you even make it out of the neighborhood.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013
It's like being on Death Row without the possibility of a pardon.
posted by tommasz at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
A MENSA application costs $40.
Oh the irony! You'd think folks would be smart enough not to pay that!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:32 PM on May 7, 2013
Oh the irony! You'd think folks would be smart enough not to pay that!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:32 PM on May 7, 2013
If the mission is legit, these are the next wave of pioneers.
If the mission is legit.
Is there anyone who really thinks this thing is legit? I wonder if the application process, selection, and training, all for the inevitable letdown is the premise of the reality TV show.
These people are not going to Mars. These people will be lucky if they get a flight on the vomit comet.
posted by bondcliff at 12:37 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
If the mission is legit.
Is there anyone who really thinks this thing is legit? I wonder if the application process, selection, and training, all for the inevitable letdown is the premise of the reality TV show.
These people are not going to Mars. These people will be lucky if they get a flight on the vomit comet.
posted by bondcliff at 12:37 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
People keep talking about how the US got from unmanned orbit to the moon in 10 years.
Easy. Give me 2-4% of the GDP of the US for 10 years. That's on the order of, oh, 3-5 trillion in current dollars.
I can believe they have faith in SpaceX getting Falcon Heavy online and cheap and Dragon man-rated in 10 years.
I can believe it they believe it, but until a Falcon Heavy flies with a man rated Dragon *and* you get real mass to LEO numbers for the combination, trying to figure out just how many shots you'll need is just random guesswork.
Indeed, until I see a viable spacecraft and lander design, it's guesswork squared. All launchers and spacecraft leak mass during the design process. We have no idea what those are going to mass, or how they're going to be assembled -- you're not one-shotting a Mars transfer craft with anything short of 120t to LEO. We have no idea what the fuel budget will be, which means we have no idea what the time of flight will be, which means we have no idea how much consumables we'll need, and the more consumables you need, the more fuel you need to get it off the ground and to Mars, and you better believe that this cycle can completely wreck a plan. It did so repeatedly in manned spaceflight.
And then there's the whole question of resupply. That, at least, is easier -- but who's paying for those shots? They'll have to continue for decades.
See, when colonists on Earth go, they need to bring enough supplies to get through winter. After that, they have a good chance of harvest and hunt feeding them, and of course, they'll have air.
Not true of Mars.
Indeed, where do you land? What can you count on being in your landing spot, because that's where you stay -- you're not moving 100+tons on your back. Budget a couple of automated missions to make sure where you land has water and most of the minerals you'll need. Converting them to what you actually need is a whole different thing, but that's easier than trying to make them on your own.
There is so much unknown that even pretending to have a budget plan -- either in time or in dollars -- is inane. They simply do not understand the full problem set. They grasp the essentials, but there's a shitload of detail work that you need to know, and the attitude of "Oh, we'll figure that out..." just tells me they're too dumb to do this.
Alas, if they have money, they may be crazy enough to try.
posted by eriko at 12:40 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Easy. Give me 2-4% of the GDP of the US for 10 years. That's on the order of, oh, 3-5 trillion in current dollars.
I can believe they have faith in SpaceX getting Falcon Heavy online and cheap and Dragon man-rated in 10 years.
I can believe it they believe it, but until a Falcon Heavy flies with a man rated Dragon *and* you get real mass to LEO numbers for the combination, trying to figure out just how many shots you'll need is just random guesswork.
Indeed, until I see a viable spacecraft and lander design, it's guesswork squared. All launchers and spacecraft leak mass during the design process. We have no idea what those are going to mass, or how they're going to be assembled -- you're not one-shotting a Mars transfer craft with anything short of 120t to LEO. We have no idea what the fuel budget will be, which means we have no idea what the time of flight will be, which means we have no idea how much consumables we'll need, and the more consumables you need, the more fuel you need to get it off the ground and to Mars, and you better believe that this cycle can completely wreck a plan. It did so repeatedly in manned spaceflight.
And then there's the whole question of resupply. That, at least, is easier -- but who's paying for those shots? They'll have to continue for decades.
See, when colonists on Earth go, they need to bring enough supplies to get through winter. After that, they have a good chance of harvest and hunt feeding them, and of course, they'll have air.
Not true of Mars.
Indeed, where do you land? What can you count on being in your landing spot, because that's where you stay -- you're not moving 100+tons on your back. Budget a couple of automated missions to make sure where you land has water and most of the minerals you'll need. Converting them to what you actually need is a whole different thing, but that's easier than trying to make them on your own.
There is so much unknown that even pretending to have a budget plan -- either in time or in dollars -- is inane. They simply do not understand the full problem set. They grasp the essentials, but there's a shitload of detail work that you need to know, and the attitude of "Oh, we'll figure that out..." just tells me they're too dumb to do this.
Alas, if they have money, they may be crazy enough to try.
posted by eriko at 12:40 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Hey! That's a bargain! A MENSA application costs $40.
For Mensa, $40 is the testing fee to take an IQ test and doesn't seem out-of-line compared to other standardized tests (it in part pays any facility fees, proctor fees, mailing of the test to your location, mailing it back, grading, and pays back non-renewable test development, future test improvement, etc).
For Mars One, the $38 is an application fee that pays for...?
posted by muddgirl at 12:41 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
For Mensa, $40 is the testing fee to take an IQ test and doesn't seem out-of-line compared to other standardized tests (it in part pays any facility fees, proctor fees, mailing of the test to your location, mailing it back, grading, and pays back non-renewable test development, future test improvement, etc).
For Mars One, the $38 is an application fee that pays for...?
posted by muddgirl at 12:41 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Earth? Man, what a shit hole.
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:42 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:42 PM on May 7, 2013
As I think I remarked the last time this came up, I even can't get out of bed on a cold morning, I'm sure as hell not going to somewhere I can't even breathe.
Is there anyone who really thinks this thing is legit?
I give it two chances: slim and none. 30,000 applicants at $38 an application is already over a million dollars. I figure they can run with that gag for another couple of years, at least.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:44 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is there anyone who really thinks this thing is legit?
I give it two chances: slim and none. 30,000 applicants at $38 an application is already over a million dollars. I figure they can run with that gag for another couple of years, at least.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:44 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, you thought Laika the space dog inspired some bleak and heartwrenching indie art? Just wait til the mission logs are found from these poor bastards. Not sure how it could be any more bleak than the ACME Novelty Library take on it, but I'm excited to see.
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:55 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:55 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's like being on Death Row without the possibility of a pardon.
So is life on Earth.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:56 PM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
So is life on Earth.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:56 PM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
hellojed: "under the guise of a reality tv show."
Do viewers get to vote people off the ship?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:57 PM on May 7, 2013
Do viewers get to vote people off the ship?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:57 PM on May 7, 2013
Previously
We didn't like the idea a year ago, don't seem to be much more fond of it now.
I still think the ad money for the launch and pre-landing/landing episodes would be huge (though when I suggested that last time, Humanfont pretty clearly pointed out it was unlikely to be enough). We all know these "reality shows" are scripted though, right? So the producers accidentally let a pregnant woman get on board. First kid born in space would be some big episodes with big ad buys, right? I'm sure someone creative can plant a few more money episodes into season 1.
posted by jermsplan at 12:58 PM on May 7, 2013
We didn't like the idea a year ago, don't seem to be much more fond of it now.
I still think the ad money for the launch and pre-landing/landing episodes would be huge (though when I suggested that last time, Humanfont pretty clearly pointed out it was unlikely to be enough). We all know these "reality shows" are scripted though, right? So the producers accidentally let a pregnant woman get on board. First kid born in space would be some big episodes with big ad buys, right? I'm sure someone creative can plant a few more money episodes into season 1.
posted by jermsplan at 12:58 PM on May 7, 2013
American Idol makes $6 million in ad revenue for every half-hour. Watching a dozen people sleep and waste away in space may not be compelling enough television. Example: By the time Apollo 17 rolled around, the major TV networks had dramatically cut back coverage, and that was just a two-week mission.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:03 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:03 PM on May 7, 2013
Watching a dozen people sleep and waste away in space may not be compelling enough television.
Andy Warhol would've dug it, though.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:09 PM on May 7, 2013
Andy Warhol would've dug it, though.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:09 PM on May 7, 2013
Watching a dozen people sleep and waste away in space may not be compelling enough television.
Um...assuming that this is real (a very big assumption) I don't think it would be 'sleep and waste away' unless they medicate the shit out of them. Even if you think you want to do this, being trapped inside a tiny spacecraft with a bunch of people who will be guaranteed to annoy you while the gravity of what you've signed up for sinks in - it'll be gruesome viewing. The last one standing will have killed everyone else with a spoon inside of a year in a batshit insane frenzy.
posted by jimmythefish at 1:21 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Um...assuming that this is real (a very big assumption) I don't think it would be 'sleep and waste away' unless they medicate the shit out of them. Even if you think you want to do this, being trapped inside a tiny spacecraft with a bunch of people who will be guaranteed to annoy you while the gravity of what you've signed up for sinks in - it'll be gruesome viewing. The last one standing will have killed everyone else with a spoon inside of a year in a batshit insane frenzy.
posted by jimmythefish at 1:21 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm holding out to colonize Jupiter.
We missed our chance to ressurect dead on planet Jupiter 12 years ago. Thanks, Obama.
posted by Foosnark at 1:23 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
We missed our chance to ressurect dead on planet Jupiter 12 years ago. Thanks, Obama.
posted by Foosnark at 1:23 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
B Ark
posted by popcassady at 1:55 PM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by popcassady at 1:55 PM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
Scams like this make me so angry that I didn't think of it first.
posted by goethean at 1:58 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by goethean at 1:58 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
"See, when colonists on Earth go, they need to bring enough supplies to get through winter. After that, they have a good chance of harvest and hunt feeding them, and of course, they'll have air. Not true of Mars."
Depends. There's ice, both of frozen water and of CO2... and there are already working prototype greenhouses for space, which would be entirely buried in regolith to protect them.
Hook 'em up to a large solar array and connect them to your living quarters and you're pretty much ready to go... which is not to say that things couldn't or wouldn't go wrong, but the point being, you actually can theoretically do it.
posted by markkraft at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2013
Depends. There's ice, both of frozen water and of CO2... and there are already working prototype greenhouses for space, which would be entirely buried in regolith to protect them.
Hook 'em up to a large solar array and connect them to your living quarters and you're pretty much ready to go... which is not to say that things couldn't or wouldn't go wrong, but the point being, you actually can theoretically do it.
posted by markkraft at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2013
Zach Wiener of Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal has already covered this.
posted by Hactar at 2:42 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by Hactar at 2:42 PM on May 7, 2013
I was going to sign up for this, but then I realized that it costs $38 just to apply and I have a girlfriend who I'm rather fond of and she would hate it on Mars if I could even find a way for her to come along. I'm pretty intrigued about how it will all end though, so I'm glad someone made a FPP about it.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 3:04 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by A Bad Catholic at 3:04 PM on May 7, 2013
Their video indicates that they will have relatively large inflatable sections, a solar array, and several habitat modules on Mars and judged habitable before they send anyone to the planet.
The question, really, is how feasible it is that they will ink deals to get so much money to fund this. Apparently, they secured a few million dollars of angel investment so far, but the question is whether they can sell the big, big money... and do it before they have much to show anyone.
"The Olympic games had revenues of about $1 billion per week from broadcasting. We would need about six weeks of that to finance the whole mission to Mars." - Bas Lansdorp, founder, Mars One
posted by markkraft at 3:05 PM on May 7, 2013
The question, really, is how feasible it is that they will ink deals to get so much money to fund this. Apparently, they secured a few million dollars of angel investment so far, but the question is whether they can sell the big, big money... and do it before they have much to show anyone.
"The Olympic games had revenues of about $1 billion per week from broadcasting. We would need about six weeks of that to finance the whole mission to Mars." - Bas Lansdorp, founder, Mars One
posted by markkraft at 3:05 PM on May 7, 2013
Dying in Space: An American Dream. Mars One is not the first project hoping to boldly permanently go where no man has gone before.
posted by homunculus at 3:13 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by homunculus at 3:13 PM on May 7, 2013
No one seems to be talking about Europa anymore...
Except as fiction: Europa Report: At Last, a Space Thriller Worth Taking Seriously
posted by homunculus at 3:16 PM on May 7, 2013
Except as fiction: Europa Report: At Last, a Space Thriller Worth Taking Seriously
posted by homunculus at 3:16 PM on May 7, 2013
I've read suggestions elsewhere that a nuclear submarine is a good starting point for a model for a Mars colony.
Of course, nuclear submarines rely on ocean water for cooling. On Mars, you'd first need to make sure we've got literally tons of water we can dedicate to cooling the colony's reactor.
posted by Sleeper at 3:23 PM on May 7, 2013
Of course, nuclear submarines rely on ocean water for cooling. On Mars, you'd first need to make sure we've got literally tons of water we can dedicate to cooling the colony's reactor.
posted by Sleeper at 3:23 PM on May 7, 2013
I listened to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe discuss this recently.
They brought up what I thought was a very good question -- why try to start this "human colony on another world" thing on Mars? Why not start with the moon?
It wouldn't necessarily have to be 1-way, supplies would be easier to replenish, etc.
posted by treepour at 3:23 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
They brought up what I thought was a very good question -- why try to start this "human colony on another world" thing on Mars? Why not start with the moon?
It wouldn't necessarily have to be 1-way, supplies would be easier to replenish, etc.
posted by treepour at 3:23 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's a good idea, treepour, though it's not as exciting as a Mars colony. China, Japan, and India have current plans for manned Moon missions. (One healthy effect back on Earth might be that it'll finally shut up the conspiracy people who claim the Moon landings were faked.)
BTW, thanks for linking that podcast. I'm going to become a listener.
posted by Sleeper at 3:32 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
BTW, thanks for linking that podcast. I'm going to become a listener.
posted by Sleeper at 3:32 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
The debate about the respective merits of Mars versus the Moon has been going on for a long time, treepour. (At least, it's long been debated within the community of space enthusiasts who like to imagine this sort of thing.) One one hand, you've got magazines like the Moon Miner's Manifesto that think it's ridiculous to waste our limited resources anywhere but on mankind's natural foothold in space. Then there's the Mars types like Robert Zubrin, who see the exploration and colonization of Mars as the logical next step in a process that began when our ancestors left prehistoric Africa at the end of the last ice age.
I think it boils down to two different visions of the future.
The Moon First people see Earth as the natural centre of human activity, with space missions using the Moon as a waystation and port of call because it's free of Earth's gravity well. Get from Earth to the Moon, then you can go anywhere.
By contrast, the Mars First people see space exploration as being something more like the exploration of North and South America in the 16th century. First you have to travel for a long time to get to the New World (months in a can, enduring radiation exposure), but upon arrival there's a self-supporting colony ready to greet you. Earth is kind of irrelevant in this model as soon it creates a colony on Mars, because it's the Martians who will explore and settle the rest of the Solar System.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:00 PM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think it boils down to two different visions of the future.
The Moon First people see Earth as the natural centre of human activity, with space missions using the Moon as a waystation and port of call because it's free of Earth's gravity well. Get from Earth to the Moon, then you can go anywhere.
By contrast, the Mars First people see space exploration as being something more like the exploration of North and South America in the 16th century. First you have to travel for a long time to get to the New World (months in a can, enduring radiation exposure), but upon arrival there's a self-supporting colony ready to greet you. Earth is kind of irrelevant in this model as soon it creates a colony on Mars, because it's the Martians who will explore and settle the rest of the Solar System.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:00 PM on May 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
My opinion is, if it works, it works. The exploration and settlement of the Americas was a tasteless commercial venture as well, and at least this time there are no natives to slaughter by the million.
That said, this does not look as if it would work. Best case, this is like the initial failed attempts to finance the Roanoke colony, from which we will learn some unpleasant but necessary lessons going forward.
posted by AdamCSnider at 4:11 PM on May 7, 2013
That said, this does not look as if it would work. Best case, this is like the initial failed attempts to finance the Roanoke colony, from which we will learn some unpleasant but necessary lessons going forward.
posted by AdamCSnider at 4:11 PM on May 7, 2013
And my axe!
posted by dry white toast at 4:31 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by dry white toast at 4:31 PM on May 7, 2013
It's like being on Death Row without the possibility of a pardon.
That's also what living on earth is like. Valar morghulis.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:56 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
That's also what living on earth is like. Valar morghulis.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:56 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Why not start with the moon?
Zubrin is a compelling cheerleader for Mars exploration so I'll link to his arguments. Summing up, Mars has more diverse and more easily extractable resources, a thin atmosphere that's good enough to protect against solar flares, and an Earth-like day/night cycle (draining batteries for two weeks while waiting for the next sunrise would suck).
As Kevin said, there are arguments for going back to the Moon, but they are mostly variations of "it's closer". The argument of using it as a springboard to other places only works if you assume the presence of fuel depots, which is a whole other can of worms and adds a huge amount of complexity to a mission.
Zubrin's argument of a fusion-powered deuterium economy to kickstart Mars exploration is speculative as well. But I think people prefer Mars because the Moon has already given up most of its secrets.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:36 PM on May 7, 2013
Zubrin is a compelling cheerleader for Mars exploration so I'll link to his arguments. Summing up, Mars has more diverse and more easily extractable resources, a thin atmosphere that's good enough to protect against solar flares, and an Earth-like day/night cycle (draining batteries for two weeks while waiting for the next sunrise would suck).
As Kevin said, there are arguments for going back to the Moon, but they are mostly variations of "it's closer". The argument of using it as a springboard to other places only works if you assume the presence of fuel depots, which is a whole other can of worms and adds a huge amount of complexity to a mission.
Zubrin's argument of a fusion-powered deuterium economy to kickstart Mars exploration is speculative as well. But I think people prefer Mars because the Moon has already given up most of its secrets.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:36 PM on May 7, 2013
Paragliding into Valles Marineris.
Send the dune buggy down to take me back up to the top. You can take pictures, and, also, I'll let you hack my helmet cam.
Gotta get back to the habitat in time to water the tomatoes.
...and the low-gravity ditch-weed.
No guns.
We can build little cairns around the rovers and take pictures of them for Facebook.
(Signal lag of about half an hour.) Can you say that again, please? Ha ha.
We'll keep transmitting until we get the corn and bean crops stabilized, and the hydrogen extraction generators up to snuff. Then, I dunno. Well see.
Don't forget, youse guys back on Earth are at the bottom of the gravity well (we can drop rocks on you much easier than you can send stuff to us), so behave.
(not in the contract....the two-year outbound experiment in the post-planetary version of the mile-high club. It'll be in the book--stay tuned)
I can think of lots of reasons to go to Mars.
posted by mule98J at 6:38 PM on May 7, 2013
Send the dune buggy down to take me back up to the top. You can take pictures, and, also, I'll let you hack my helmet cam.
Gotta get back to the habitat in time to water the tomatoes.
...and the low-gravity ditch-weed.
No guns.
We can build little cairns around the rovers and take pictures of them for Facebook.
(Signal lag of about half an hour.) Can you say that again, please? Ha ha.
We'll keep transmitting until we get the corn and bean crops stabilized, and the hydrogen extraction generators up to snuff. Then, I dunno. Well see.
Don't forget, youse guys back on Earth are at the bottom of the gravity well (we can drop rocks on you much easier than you can send stuff to us), so behave.
(not in the contract....the two-year outbound experiment in the post-planetary version of the mile-high club. It'll be in the book--stay tuned)
I can think of lots of reasons to go to Mars.
posted by mule98J at 6:38 PM on May 7, 2013
When I think of Mars, I'm reminded of Larry Niven's story, Flatlander. Humans born on Earth are just stupid, because they don't realize that the universe is trying to kill you.
Mars, in real life, won't be Barsoom or Bradbury's Chronicles. It's a place that will make it as hard as hell to arrive, impossible to leave and will do its best to kill you all the time you are there.
There aren't that many souls hardy enough to winter over at McMurdo. Mars is McMurdo with no hope of relief or rescue.
I up grew reading Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke, so it pains me to say this: the Earth is probably all we get. So, c'mon, screw "colonization." Let's make Earth habitable by Humankind.
posted by SPrintF at 6:47 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mars, in real life, won't be Barsoom or Bradbury's Chronicles. It's a place that will make it as hard as hell to arrive, impossible to leave and will do its best to kill you all the time you are there.
There aren't that many souls hardy enough to winter over at McMurdo. Mars is McMurdo with no hope of relief or rescue.
I up grew reading Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke, so it pains me to say this: the Earth is probably all we get. So, c'mon, screw "colonization." Let's make Earth habitable by Humankind.
posted by SPrintF at 6:47 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
There aren't that many souls hardy enough to winter over at McMurdo. Mars is McMurdo with no hope of relief or rescue.
One of the few things I understand about how people manage to overwinter in Antarctica is that it involves enormous amounts of alcohol. Without that, how will people survive Mars?
I'm only halfway kidding. Recreation in a closed, low-resource situation is often chemical, and people need their recreation, else they risk space madness.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:57 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
One of the few things I understand about how people manage to overwinter in Antarctica is that it involves enormous amounts of alcohol. Without that, how will people survive Mars?
I'm only halfway kidding. Recreation in a closed, low-resource situation is often chemical, and people need their recreation, else they risk space madness.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:57 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
there are arguments for going back to the Moon, but they are mostly variations of "it's closer".
The other, better argument is that the moon has a comparatively shallow gravity well and no atmosphere. Anything you mine or fabricate on the moon can be shipped back into space at a very low price. The Moon is close to everywhere, not just close to Earth.
Moon/Mars isn't an either/or. Getting some industrial capacity on the moon would make colonizing Mars much easier.
...just as winning an Olympic gold medal would improve my odds of becoming Prime Minister...
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The other, better argument is that the moon has a comparatively shallow gravity well and no atmosphere. Anything you mine or fabricate on the moon can be shipped back into space at a very low price. The Moon is close to everywhere, not just close to Earth.
Moon/Mars isn't an either/or. Getting some industrial capacity on the moon would make colonizing Mars much easier.
...just as winning an Olympic gold medal would improve my odds of becoming Prime Minister...
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Wanted: Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. P.O. Box 91 Ocean View, WA 99393. You'll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.
posted by vidur at 7:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by vidur at 7:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Wanted: Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. P.O. Box 91 Ocean View, WA 99393. You'll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.
Safety Not Guaranteed. A quirky, character driven indie film. It's fringe science fiction.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:28 PM on May 7, 2013
Safety Not Guaranteed. A quirky, character driven indie film. It's fringe science fiction.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:28 PM on May 7, 2013
Being on Mars sounds great. Until you just want to sit on the patio in your shorts, sipping an adult beverage while listening to the birds and animals, feeling the breeze on your skin. The emotional whelp as one realize they can never do that again and everything they've left behind is tiny pinpoint in the sky will be huge. There should be probably about 2 shrinks for everyone 4 colonists.
Then there's the matter of the 8 month journey in a can with a number of people you won't like after 2 days of dealing with weightless puke, piss, turds and flavorless foods. Suspended animation would be nice, but that's not going to happen in the next ten years.
Finally, what the hell are they going to do on Mars? They can't chop down trees to build cabins, then farm the land. Possibly they'll burrow underground for space and radiation shielding, that doesn't exactly sound sexy, does it?
Forget Mars. Hell, forget the Moon. Getting a commercial space station designed, launched, built and constantly supplied would be a huge first step.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:27 AM on May 8, 2013
Then there's the matter of the 8 month journey in a can with a number of people you won't like after 2 days of dealing with weightless puke, piss, turds and flavorless foods. Suspended animation would be nice, but that's not going to happen in the next ten years.
Finally, what the hell are they going to do on Mars? They can't chop down trees to build cabins, then farm the land. Possibly they'll burrow underground for space and radiation shielding, that doesn't exactly sound sexy, does it?
Forget Mars. Hell, forget the Moon. Getting a commercial space station designed, launched, built and constantly supplied would be a huge first step.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:27 AM on May 8, 2013
Then there's the matter of the 8 month journey in a can with a number of people you won't like after 2 days of dealing with weightless puke, piss, turds and flavorless foods.
If the company is smart, they'll choose the colonists based not only on their individual abilities to adapt but also on their compatibility with the other crew members. Also, I think the rocket scientists will be able to find a way to keep the weightless puke, piss, and turds from just floating around.
Finally, what the hell are they going to do on Mars?
Science, I'd suppose, although the answer to that question largely depends on how much stuff the company sends down to the landing site before they even get there.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 3:17 PM on May 8, 2013
If the company is smart, they'll choose the colonists based not only on their individual abilities to adapt but also on their compatibility with the other crew members. Also, I think the rocket scientists will be able to find a way to keep the weightless puke, piss, and turds from just floating around.
Finally, what the hell are they going to do on Mars?
Science, I'd suppose, although the answer to that question largely depends on how much stuff the company sends down to the landing site before they even get there.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 3:17 PM on May 8, 2013
I would go in a heartbeat.
That was my first thought. Except, I think that when push came to shove, I'd bail out for reasons best expressed by Bert (of Bert and Ernie) in the song "I don't want to live on the moon" (substitute Mars).
posted by Transl3y at 4:37 PM on May 8, 2013
That was my first thought. Except, I think that when push came to shove, I'd bail out for reasons best expressed by Bert (of Bert and Ernie) in the song "I don't want to live on the moon" (substitute Mars).
posted by Transl3y at 4:37 PM on May 8, 2013
Did NASA send the Curiosity Rover to the wrong place?
This Monday Morning quarterbacking thing, it's so easy. I strapped my RC car to a bottle rocket and next thing I knew, Robin Williams was living in my basement and using his kewl alien tech to thwart the NSA guys who were trying to peek down my chimney.
posted by localroger at 7:15 PM on May 9, 2013
This Monday Morning quarterbacking thing, it's so easy. I strapped my RC car to a bottle rocket and next thing I knew, Robin Williams was living in my basement and using his kewl alien tech to thwart the NSA guys who were trying to peek down my chimney.
posted by localroger at 7:15 PM on May 9, 2013
Apparently 78,000 started the process. Apparently 700-ish have done the full application, which includes a video.
posted by GuyZero at 4:20 PM on May 10, 2013
posted by GuyZero at 4:20 PM on May 10, 2013
I would go in a heartbeat.
With a decent, clearly articulated plan, I might try to go to Mars. But the Moon? I'd sign up for that fun.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 PM on May 10, 2013
With a decent, clearly articulated plan, I might try to go to Mars. But the Moon? I'd sign up for that fun.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 PM on May 10, 2013
"It's a place that will make it as hard as hell to arrive, impossible to leave and will do its best to kill you all the time you are there."
Actually, no. Not impossible to leave... at least if SpaceX gets the job to resupply them, and fully integrates reusable space vehicles. (They're going to be rolling the system they've been successfully testing lately into their much larger rockets which do actual space missions in the next few months, testing the first few landings of the larger rockets over water initially. They expect some failures, but knowing SpaceX, they'll find a way to make it work.)
That said, I can fully understand why they would sell the trip as "no return". Certainly, no promises... but if it becomes regularly supplied, that could certainly change.
I heard Elon Musk talking about this very thing on one of his recent interviews... he basically said that since the cost of the ships are so high in comparison to the propellant, return trips from future space colonies would likely be free, in part because he didn't foresee lots of return cargo for quite some time -- most space exports would be intellectual property. As such, he speculated that although some people might eventually pay money to settle at a space colony, return trips would be free or nearly so, just because they'd probably want to get that rocket back and use it again and it would be traveling back mostly empty.
In such a future, it stands to reason that one of the most profitable things that space travelers could do to make money would be to create more habitat space for additional space travelers, because there's always someone else who will want to go into space, and, if reusable rockets become practical, could probably afford to do so.
posted by markkraft at 5:52 PM on May 11, 2013
Actually, no. Not impossible to leave... at least if SpaceX gets the job to resupply them, and fully integrates reusable space vehicles. (They're going to be rolling the system they've been successfully testing lately into their much larger rockets which do actual space missions in the next few months, testing the first few landings of the larger rockets over water initially. They expect some failures, but knowing SpaceX, they'll find a way to make it work.)
That said, I can fully understand why they would sell the trip as "no return". Certainly, no promises... but if it becomes regularly supplied, that could certainly change.
I heard Elon Musk talking about this very thing on one of his recent interviews... he basically said that since the cost of the ships are so high in comparison to the propellant, return trips from future space colonies would likely be free, in part because he didn't foresee lots of return cargo for quite some time -- most space exports would be intellectual property. As such, he speculated that although some people might eventually pay money to settle at a space colony, return trips would be free or nearly so, just because they'd probably want to get that rocket back and use it again and it would be traveling back mostly empty.
In such a future, it stands to reason that one of the most profitable things that space travelers could do to make money would be to create more habitat space for additional space travelers, because there's always someone else who will want to go into space, and, if reusable rockets become practical, could probably afford to do so.
posted by markkraft at 5:52 PM on May 11, 2013
Let's just for the sake of argument that someone created a reasonably hospitable atmosphere on mars.
How would you know that it would sustain any healthy long-term life? We still don't know what beneficial 'things' are in our own atmosphere, nor do we know every possible "long-term health effects of atmospheric ______?"
The devil is in the details. Let me Google that for ya.
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 3:17 PM on May 13, 2013
How would you know that it would sustain any healthy long-term life? We still don't know what beneficial 'things' are in our own atmosphere, nor do we know every possible "long-term health effects of atmospheric ______?"
The devil is in the details. Let me Google that for ya.
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 3:17 PM on May 13, 2013
But the thing about coming back from Mars is that the return trip will get more and more difficult the longer you stay. With 38% of Earth's gravity, there's going to be some muscle deterioration over time - and then there's radiation exposure, which is likely to be the most important factor determining how many space trips any person can take. The Mars colony will (Hopefully!) have some decent radiation shielding, at least eventually. But spaceships are smaller and of limited mass, which means the shielding won't be as good. Each trip to and from Mars will probably expose the astronauts to an unhealthy amount of radiation, and even an adequately shielded colony will still expose its inhabitants to more rads than they'd get on Earth. Eventually there'd be too much cumulative exposure, try to go back and you might get cancer.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:53 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 4:53 PM on May 13, 2013
Each trip to and from Mars will probably expose the astronauts to an unhealthy amount of radiation, and even an adequately shielded colony will still expose its inhabitants to more rads than they'd get on Earth.
Not if the ship has empty space in its hull, so the occupants can fill it with their feces, which is excellent radiation shielding.
No really, this has been considered.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 PM on May 13, 2013
Not if the ship has empty space in its hull, so the occupants can fill it with their feces, which is excellent radiation shielding.
No really, this has been considered.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 PM on May 13, 2013
That's an interesting idea! I guess it's high in water content, and water is pretty good at blocking radiation...
posted by Kevin Street at 10:05 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 10:05 PM on May 13, 2013
The Little Rover That Could: Opportunity Breaks NASA’s Driving Distance Record
posted by homunculus at 12:35 PM on May 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 12:35 PM on May 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Welcome to the Real Space Age: This is not a rendering. It is a launching pad in the New Mexico desert for rocket planes that will send you into space for $200,000. It opens later this year.
posted by homunculus at 7:26 PM on May 21, 2013
posted by homunculus at 7:26 PM on May 21, 2013
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posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:34 AM on May 7, 2013