“Well, I guess we know which one you are.”
June 4, 2013 4:48 PM Subscribe
Geeks are nerds with fashion sense.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:50 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:50 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
The author of this piece is, I believe, the elusive "geek nerd".
posted by GuyZero at 4:51 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 4:51 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
I am gerd, hear me burp.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:54 PM on June 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:54 PM on June 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
Geeks bite the heads off chickens, Nerds are made by Willy Wonka and hurt my teeth.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:55 PM on June 4, 2013 [29 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:55 PM on June 4, 2013 [29 favorites]
"oh my god are we still doing this"
It's interesting because it's actual (causal) research and is evidence-based.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:55 PM on June 4, 2013 [9 favorites]
It's interesting because it's actual (causal) research and is evidence-based.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:55 PM on June 4, 2013 [9 favorites]
Before you jump to comment, it's worth reading the actual article to see that it's a social network analysis paper, not some vague rumination on pop culture. In fact, maybe it's always a good idea to read the actual article before you comment, but who am I to judge?
One of the main problems I have with analysis of Twitter corpuses (corpii?) is that you're really only getting the portion of people who use Twitter, but I guess the Nerd / Geek field would probably give you a pretty representative sample of the population.
posted by codacorolla at 4:57 PM on June 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
One of the main problems I have with analysis of Twitter corpuses (corpii?) is that you're really only getting the portion of people who use Twitter, but I guess the Nerd / Geek field would probably give you a pretty representative sample of the population.
posted by codacorolla at 4:57 PM on June 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
My eyes glazed over when I got to the statistics, which means the author is a nerd.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:58 PM on June 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:58 PM on June 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
We can make the distinction between people who care about the distinction between geek vs nerd and everyone else.
I call this "incredibly boring people" vs "possibly not incredibly boring people".
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 5:02 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
I call this "incredibly boring people" vs "possibly not incredibly boring people".
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 5:02 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
I resent his claim that weirdo is merely a descriptor of geek or nerd. Weirdo's are there own things! We are neither geeks nor nerds!
GONZO UBER ALLES!
posted by oddman at 5:03 PM on June 4, 2013 [20 favorites]
GONZO UBER ALLES!
posted by oddman at 5:03 PM on June 4, 2013 [20 favorites]
The author of this piece is, I believe, the elusive "geek nerd".
Yawn. Wake me when they discover the elusive triple point: the geek-nerd-dork trifecta.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:07 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yawn. Wake me when they discover the elusive triple point: the geek-nerd-dork trifecta.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:07 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
There is an entire subject of philosophy dedicated to this: ontology. And most certainly, nerds may be different from geeks but they both submit to the rule of ontology. This is why analytic philosophers are evidently nerds and continental philosophers are evidently not.
posted by curuinor at 5:10 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by curuinor at 5:10 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
I think of myself as more of a dweeb.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:15 PM on June 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:15 PM on June 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Whatta buncha dorks.
posted by jonmc at 5:15 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 5:15 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
“sports geek” — a reasonable substitute for “jock”
False.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:16 PM on June 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
False.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:16 PM on June 4, 2013 [10 favorites]
I agree with the link.
Bart: Good idea, you can speak nerd to them!
Milhouse: I'm not a nerd, Bart. Nerds are smart.
posted by kersplunk at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
Bart: Good idea, you can speak nerd to them!
Milhouse: I'm not a nerd, Bart. Nerds are smart.
posted by kersplunk at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
It's not a discrete condition, it's more of a spectrum.
posted by Teakettle at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2013
posted by Teakettle at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2013
Expropriate the pejoratives!
posted by banal evil at 5:18 PM on June 4, 2013
posted by banal evil at 5:18 PM on June 4, 2013
All science is stamp collecting or physics, what?
posted by Devonian at 5:19 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 5:19 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've always believed geeks are obsessed, nerds are smart. One does not preclude the other.
posted by maryr at 5:19 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by maryr at 5:19 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
I dunno. The things I like, and the things I like to do, overlap in a lot of places with the traditional territory of geekery and nerdom, but I don't identify as either.
Labels for people, even if they're intended inclusively instead of exclusively, have always kinda pissed me off, but I think my lack of patience with the whole thing is just that, to paraphrase [fill in action movie title here], I'm getting too old for this shit.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:22 PM on June 4, 2013
Labels for people, even if they're intended inclusively instead of exclusively, have always kinda pissed me off, but I think my lack of patience with the whole thing is just that, to paraphrase [fill in action movie title here], I'm getting too old for this shit.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:22 PM on June 4, 2013
I think the failure to distinguish between these two, or more generally between e.g. people who are really into tv shows or obscure cultural ephemera and people who are bookish and socially awkward/excluded explains a lot of the backlash exemplified in "fake geek girl" sort of things. This is not to say that I regard that backlash as deserved and appropriate or have a position on it normatively whatsoever, just that I think that's part of where it comes from.
posted by clockzero at 5:23 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by clockzero at 5:23 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've always believed geeks are obsessed, nerds are smart. One does not preclude the other.
Yeah thats how I see it.
I'm a geek, but also more of a wastoid.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:24 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
"“sports geek” — a reasonable substitute for “jock”
False."
Everyone knows a jock is a sports *nerd,* duh. Didn't you RTFA?
posted by oddman at 5:30 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
False."
Everyone knows a jock is a sports *nerd,* duh. Didn't you RTFA?
posted by oddman at 5:30 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Grace: Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 5:32 PM on June 4, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 5:32 PM on June 4, 2013 [12 favorites]
Jocks are the players. Sports Nerds/Geeks are the fans.
posted by jonmc at 5:33 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 5:33 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
corpuses (corpii?)
*ahem* I believe you mean corpora. glavin
posted by DaDaDaDave at 5:33 PM on June 4, 2013 [12 favorites]
*ahem* I believe you mean corpora. glavin
posted by DaDaDaDave at 5:33 PM on June 4, 2013 [12 favorites]
I pronounce it "jeek".
posted by lantius at 5:36 PM on June 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by lantius at 5:36 PM on June 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
They're both slurs. Splitting hairs over their definition is like getting all excited about categorizing minority groups based on which racial slur best defines them.
posted by mullingitover at 5:36 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by mullingitover at 5:36 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
*ahem* I believe you mean corpora. glavin
Thanks. I blanked on it. *pushes your head back in to toilet*
posted by codacorolla at 5:37 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Thanks. I blanked on it. *pushes your head back in to toilet*
posted by codacorolla at 5:37 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Going by this terminology, sports nerds are the players, plus the coaches, assistant coaches, all those people involved with making the sport possible. And the amateurs who go out and play, too.
posted by Kevin Street at 5:38 PM on June 4, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 5:38 PM on June 4, 2013
I am a monogamous nerd but a serial geek.
posted by DU at 5:42 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 5:42 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Jocks are the players. Sports Nerds/Geeks are the fans.
If you're not playing something, you're not the Jocks, you're the Geeks being sold. Or possibly the Nerds being sold out.*
*But just wait until the homecoming carnival!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:42 PM on June 4, 2013
If you're not playing something, you're not the Jocks, you're the Geeks being sold. Or possibly the Nerds being sold out.*
*But just wait until the homecoming carnival!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:42 PM on June 4, 2013
They're both slurs. Splitting hairs over their definition is like getting all excited about categorizing minority groups based on which racial slur best defines them.
Except they're usually used to describe people with privelege - nerds with the privlege to get an education and geeks with the money to acquire all that stuff.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:50 PM on June 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
I identify as a "Don't presume to know me based on a few superficial interests I'm just here for the web developer job and I'm not taking a lower salary because you have free Mountain Dews and a video game machine in the lobby because I'm not six."
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:53 PM on June 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:53 PM on June 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
: "
They're both slurs. Splitting hairs over their definition is like getting all excited about categorizing minority groups based on which racial slur best defines them.
Except they're usually used to describe people with privelege - nerds with the privlege to get an education and geeks with the money to acquire all that stuff."
Ah, of course. Those lucky duckies.
posted by mullingitover at 5:56 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
They're both slurs. Splitting hairs over their definition is like getting all excited about categorizing minority groups based on which racial slur best defines them.
Except they're usually used to describe people with privelege - nerds with the privlege to get an education and geeks with the money to acquire all that stuff."
Ah, of course. Those lucky duckies.
posted by mullingitover at 5:56 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It seems to me the real potential here is to fold in geographic information. The distinction between geeks and nerds isn't terribly interesting. The dramatic regional variation *might* possibly be.
I've always used "geek" to refer to people who grock stuff (concepts, disciplines, objects, or trivia) and "nerd" to refer to socially awkward people. Especially, but not essentially, socially awkward people who are also geeks. As far as I can tell, this marks me as having grown up on the North American West Coast. It wasn't until college that I encountered North Eastern positive use of nerd used in the post. It still surprises me, even if it apparently dominates twitter usage.
Of course this is nothing but anecdote. And I don't actually care enough to try to find or generate statistical data. But, if someone else were to do so, I'd enjoy seeing it.
posted by eotvos at 5:59 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've always used "geek" to refer to people who grock stuff (concepts, disciplines, objects, or trivia) and "nerd" to refer to socially awkward people. Especially, but not essentially, socially awkward people who are also geeks. As far as I can tell, this marks me as having grown up on the North American West Coast. It wasn't until college that I encountered North Eastern positive use of nerd used in the post. It still surprises me, even if it apparently dominates twitter usage.
Of course this is nothing but anecdote. And I don't actually care enough to try to find or generate statistical data. But, if someone else were to do so, I'd enjoy seeing it.
posted by eotvos at 5:59 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is like when grizzly and polar bears mate right?
posted by spitbull at 6:05 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 6:05 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ah, of course. Those lucky duckies.
Fellow MeFite Dave deals with this better than I can.
So the question is not “is the nerd subculture classist?”, it’s “is the nerd subculture any more classist than we would expect it to be?” Without a doubt I think that the answer is yes. By its very nature, by the rules of its adherents, it is designed to not only exclude those of a lower socioeconomic class, but to look down on them.
As I’ve argued before, there are two requirements to be a nerd: money and time. People who are worried about where their next meal will come from or who are working three jobs and terrified of getting sick don’t have the luxury of wondering about the new companion on Doctor Who. Nerd hobbies are expensive: comic books, movies, toys, computers, and games require a certain level of income to own, and an amount of free time to enjoy. (Plus an amount of living space to contain.) In addition, as I’ve said in my countless rants about “collections”, there is a pride in mere ownership — usually geared more towards quantity than quality. A nerd is more likely to boast that he has every book in a certain series than to wonder if the series is worth owning even one book. Never offer to help move a nerd, because you’ll be toting box after box of things he himself hasn’t touched in years, but nevertheless must have with him at all times. When I finally sold my Star Wars figures it was only after doing nothing but buying them and putting them in a storage bin, moving those storage bins to Massachusetts, and not even unpacking them until I decided to sell them.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 6:06 PM on June 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
Like Kirk is an ocelot or something.
The link made me "oh this again" but that wasn't someone sounding off about how everyone else is using the categories wrong. He has some firm common usage (on twitter) ground to stand on. Couple of surprises too. "Pretentious" geeks? "Boutique" geeks?
I'm not too sure about the stated definition, but it does seem like most of the words above the diagonal are tribal descriptors, while only a handful (three?) below it aren't.
posted by postcommunism at 6:07 PM on June 4, 2013
The link made me "oh this again" but that wasn't someone sounding off about how everyone else is using the categories wrong. He has some firm common usage (on twitter) ground to stand on. Couple of surprises too. "Pretentious" geeks? "Boutique" geeks?
I'm not too sure about the stated definition, but it does seem like most of the words above the diagonal are tribal descriptors, while only a handful (three?) below it aren't.
posted by postcommunism at 6:07 PM on June 4, 2013
I would call sabermetricians "sports nerds" and people who know a lot of sports trivia "sports geeks", at least as far as this particular ontology goes.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:11 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 6:11 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Calling people who play sports "sports geeks/nerds" is like calling people who engineer and design trains "train geeks/nerds". The people doing it might just be working their nine-to-five and not give a damn.
posted by cthuljew at 6:14 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by cthuljew at 6:14 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
> In addition, as I’ve said in my countless rants about “collections”, there is a pride in mere ownership — usually geared more towards quantity than quality. A nerd is more likely to boast that he has every book in a certain series than to wonder if the series is worth owning even one book.
Interestingly, the OP seems to indicate that on twitter, 'nerd' would be a less apt word here than 'geek'.
I would personally use nerd as a shorthand in that case (and I think people would know what I meant), but apparently there are a lot of people out there on twitter who would, upon hearing someone boast about their #collectible #jedi #ebooks #boxset, tweet that the boaster was a geek. Possibly a #pretentious one.
posted by postcommunism at 6:26 PM on June 4, 2013
Interestingly, the OP seems to indicate that on twitter, 'nerd' would be a less apt word here than 'geek'.
I would personally use nerd as a shorthand in that case (and I think people would know what I meant), but apparently there are a lot of people out there on twitter who would, upon hearing someone boast about their #collectible #jedi #ebooks #boxset, tweet that the boaster was a geek. Possibly a #pretentious one.
posted by postcommunism at 6:26 PM on June 4, 2013
By its very nature, by the rules of its adherents, it is designed to not only exclude those of a lower socioeconomic class, but to look down on them.
As I’ve argued before, there are two requirements to be a nerd: money and time.
Any definition of either "nerd" or "geek" that excludes George Washington Carver, and his moral equivalents of any race or wealth level, is complete bullshit.
If you think you can buy your way into nerd-dom either literally or via just having time, you have obviously never met a real nerd.
posted by DU at 6:29 PM on June 4, 2013
As I’ve argued before, there are two requirements to be a nerd: money and time.
Any definition of either "nerd" or "geek" that excludes George Washington Carver, and his moral equivalents of any race or wealth level, is complete bullshit.
If you think you can buy your way into nerd-dom either literally or via just having time, you have obviously never met a real nerd.
posted by DU at 6:29 PM on June 4, 2013
: "As I’ve argued before, there are two requirements to be a nerd: money and time. "
Being labeled a geek/nerd requires nothing more than dressing unfashionably, being socially marginalized, and reading a lot. A library card is free, being an outcast is free, and goodwill/salvation army are damn cheap.
posted by mullingitover at 6:32 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Being labeled a geek/nerd requires nothing more than dressing unfashionably, being socially marginalized, and reading a lot. A library card is free, being an outcast is free, and goodwill/salvation army are damn cheap.
posted by mullingitover at 6:32 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
What about us Spazzes?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:37 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:37 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
"What about us Spazzes?"
Five bucks, same as in town.
posted by oddman at 6:41 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Five bucks, same as in town.
posted by oddman at 6:41 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
In my world growing up computer "geeks" typically were into building computers, gaming, and being into the latest game that required more RAM than I had. "Coders" were a different echelon and might call themselves nerds but "coder" was the cool term, not geek, nerd, or programmer. I snub my nose at modern "buy stuff!" geekery but I never embraced the term and the people I've worked with who did had nowhere near the experience, passion, and obsession with technology, as in marveling at how it works and not just what it does, so I'm guess my point is that i am pretty leet, gize. I liked this analysis but always wanted to be a little cooler than "nerd." A stonerd perhaps? I did regrettably call myself a "computer fag" mainly because jock types called any close pairing of friends "fags" in my experience so I owned it.
posted by lordaych at 6:44 PM on June 4, 2013
posted by lordaych at 6:44 PM on June 4, 2013
"What about us Spazzes?"
let's get Spazzy!
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:08 PM on June 4, 2013
let's get Spazzy!
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:08 PM on June 4, 2013
And then there's those who are neither geeky nor nerdy, but loves and married one.
posted by QueerAngel28 at 7:13 PM on June 4, 2013
posted by QueerAngel28 at 7:13 PM on June 4, 2013
a computer nerd might read CLRS and keep an eye out for clever new ways of applying Dijkstra’s algorithm.
Oh HELL no. I'm definitely not a computer nerd; I couldn't care less about computers.
I'm an algorithms nerd.
posted by erniepan at 7:16 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Oh HELL no. I'm definitely not a computer nerd; I couldn't care less about computers.
I'm an algorithms nerd.
posted by erniepan at 7:16 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Common usage, especially on Twitter, speaks nothing of where these words came from or how they changed through decades of being common slang. Geek was originally a circus sideshow freak and geek always seemed to have connotations of being socially inept or transgressive. Nerd on the other hand, always seemed to just stand for "uncool", for whatever values of cool prevailed at the time.
posted by drinkyclown at 7:18 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by drinkyclown at 7:18 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
And then there's those who are neither geeky nor nerdy, but loves and married one.
As my freind Scotty said so many years ago, everybody's a geek for something.
posted by jonmc at 7:24 PM on June 4, 2013
As my freind Scotty said so many years ago, everybody's a geek for something.
posted by jonmc at 7:24 PM on June 4, 2013
Btw CiS, that quote about nerds and class would apply more to geeks in the linked article. Geeks are the "fan" or "collector" subculture here; nerds are the ones who e.g. go to graduate school. Not mutually exclusive but I think the author has a point that the two labels are pretty different, in that nerd culture is way less centered on consuming things (and I'd argue even has a strain of contempt for "frivolous" and/or conspicuous consumption).
posted by en forme de poire at 7:25 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by en forme de poire at 7:25 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
They're both slurs.
At a previous job the CEO would sometimes say to the developers something along the lines of "are you guys geeks or nerds, I can never remember which one." I would tell her "Software developers is just fine."
posted by markr at 8:08 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
At a previous job the CEO would sometimes say to the developers something along the lines of "are you guys geeks or nerds, I can never remember which one." I would tell her "Software developers is just fine."
posted by markr at 8:08 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Why are we wasting time discussing this? What ever they are, they're not going to give themselves nuggies, let's get to work. (Puts nearest person in headlock and starts furiously rubbing their head with knuckles).
posted by 445supermag at 8:08 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by 445supermag at 8:08 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
look, "geek" and "nerd" are just subsets of "dipshit," I know this because if I yell it at a con, everybody turns
posted by mightygodking at 8:33 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by mightygodking at 8:33 PM on June 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I've said it before and I'll say it again: actual scientists would never describe themselves as "geeks". That's for programmers.
Birders do describe themselves as "bird nerds" but they are birders so....
posted by fshgrl at 8:38 PM on June 4, 2013
Birders do describe themselves as "bird nerds" but they are birders so....
posted by fshgrl at 8:38 PM on June 4, 2013
The Onion: Gaywads, Dorkwads Sign Historic Wad Accord
posted by Rangeboy at 8:57 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Rangeboy at 8:57 PM on June 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Wake me when they discover the elusive triple point: the geek-nerd-dork trifecta.
You rang?
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:24 PM on June 4, 2013
You rang?
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:24 PM on June 4, 2013
Geeks are bothered/annoyed by this post. Nerds are interested in it.
Geeks cluster on Reddit. Nerds on Metafilter.
The characters portrayed on The Big Bang Theory are geeks. In real life they would be nerds.
And as for me, I can't help but be bothered about how the poor choice of font and colors make that scatter plot harder to read than need be. Its pretty well done, and a few changes could really improve it.
posted by graphnerd at 9:37 PM on June 4, 2013
Geeks cluster on Reddit. Nerds on Metafilter.
The characters portrayed on The Big Bang Theory are geeks. In real life they would be nerds.
And as for me, I can't help but be bothered about how the poor choice of font and colors make that scatter plot harder to read than need be. Its pretty well done, and a few changes could really improve it.
posted by graphnerd at 9:37 PM on June 4, 2013
maryr: "I've always believed geeks are obsessed, nerds are smart. One does not preclude the other."
I will follow you up on that. For example, our Glorious Leader is a bike geek. I have known music geeks, stamp geeks, cooking geeks....
For me the geek thing means a drive to grok and improve something. Nerds just kinda soak things up without such a singlemindedness...
posted by Samizdata at 9:46 PM on June 4, 2013
I will follow you up on that. For example, our Glorious Leader is a bike geek. I have known music geeks, stamp geeks, cooking geeks....
For me the geek thing means a drive to grok and improve something. Nerds just kinda soak things up without such a singlemindedness...
posted by Samizdata at 9:46 PM on June 4, 2013
Common usage, especially on Twitter, speaks nothing of where these words came from or how they changed through decades of being common slang.
Tell me about it. I remember a couple years ago a new coworker a few years younger than me self identified as a great big nerd. In my longing-for-a-kindred spirit excitement, I started a torrent of all the nerdy/geeky cultural questions that I hoped would be a great bonding moment. She knew none of them. Not even in a tangentially "oh, I've heard of that" way. She was a former cheer leader, marathons runner, dance instructor. As far as I could tell she only knew computer stuff casually except for her job, and didn't really get into all the traditional geek/nerd fare. She didn't claim to be a [specialty] nerd, so that wasn't it. She had a tumblr about fashion outside of work, but that isn't anything unusual.
I'm not suggesting "fake geek girl" because I think that whole idea is stupid and mean-spirited. But I was genuinely surprised at how different the definition of geek and nerd had become from my formative years for someone to so casually identify themselves as such. I never asked her why she considered herself a nerd, because it seemed to close to the whole fake geek girl issue and I didn't want to be exclusionary. But it was obviously a dramatically different reason from my own self label.
(and for reference to my earlier comment, I regularly refer to myself as either a geek, nerd, or dork. And the usage can be general or specific. Depending on the context, I might be a CSS nerd or a seahorse dork or just as easily a seahorse nerd and CSS geek. But mostly, I'm just dorktastic.)
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:48 PM on June 4, 2013
Tell me about it. I remember a couple years ago a new coworker a few years younger than me self identified as a great big nerd. In my longing-for-a-kindred spirit excitement, I started a torrent of all the nerdy/geeky cultural questions that I hoped would be a great bonding moment. She knew none of them. Not even in a tangentially "oh, I've heard of that" way. She was a former cheer leader, marathons runner, dance instructor. As far as I could tell she only knew computer stuff casually except for her job, and didn't really get into all the traditional geek/nerd fare. She didn't claim to be a [specialty] nerd, so that wasn't it. She had a tumblr about fashion outside of work, but that isn't anything unusual.
I'm not suggesting "fake geek girl" because I think that whole idea is stupid and mean-spirited. But I was genuinely surprised at how different the definition of geek and nerd had become from my formative years for someone to so casually identify themselves as such. I never asked her why she considered herself a nerd, because it seemed to close to the whole fake geek girl issue and I didn't want to be exclusionary. But it was obviously a dramatically different reason from my own self label.
(and for reference to my earlier comment, I regularly refer to myself as either a geek, nerd, or dork. And the usage can be general or specific. Depending on the context, I might be a CSS nerd or a seahorse dork or just as easily a seahorse nerd and CSS geek. But mostly, I'm just dorktastic.)
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:48 PM on June 4, 2013
If you see 'CSS' and hear Cansei de Ser Sexy and not Cascading Style Sheet, you're probably not a nerd. Might be a music geek, though.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 9:56 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 9:56 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Tangentially and tenuously related to this conversation: does use of the word 'grok' fit into this conversation at all? I've only ever seen it (never heard it) used in geekier forums online.
Is it a regionalism? A subculture thing?
posted by graphnerd at 10:00 PM on June 4, 2013
Is it a regionalism? A subculture thing?
posted by graphnerd at 10:00 PM on June 4, 2013
> In addition, as I’ve said in my countless rants about “collections”, there is a pride in mere ownership — usually geared more towards quantity than quality. A nerd is more likely to boast that he has every book in a certain series than to wonder if the series is worth owning even one book.
Interestingly, the OP seems to indicate that on twitter, 'nerd' would be a less apt word here than 'geek'.
Those are the definitions I use - I'd argue that a geek would brag about owning an entire collection of graphic novels while a nerd would brag about having read them. Now, that probably means that the geek has read them all (and is supporting the artist) and there's a pretty good chance the nerd owns them all (or all but two). The geek's point of pride is the effort it takes to complete the perfect collection (and when a newer, better edition comes out, has to have that one too), while the nerd is OK with a dog eared library copy as long as they know how the story ends.
In the end, you have two kids who really loved Sandman. But the boast is different.
posted by maryr at 10:05 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Interestingly, the OP seems to indicate that on twitter, 'nerd' would be a less apt word here than 'geek'.
Those are the definitions I use - I'd argue that a geek would brag about owning an entire collection of graphic novels while a nerd would brag about having read them. Now, that probably means that the geek has read them all (and is supporting the artist) and there's a pretty good chance the nerd owns them all (or all but two). The geek's point of pride is the effort it takes to complete the perfect collection (and when a newer, better edition comes out, has to have that one too), while the nerd is OK with a dog eared library copy as long as they know how the story ends.
In the end, you have two kids who really loved Sandman. But the boast is different.
posted by maryr at 10:05 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
BTW, if you see CSS and think Cansei de Ser Sexy, what you are is a hipster, not a music geek.
posted by maryr at 10:06 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 10:06 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Charlemagne In Sweatpants: "If you see 'CSS' and hear Cansei de Ser Sexy and not Cascading Style Sheet, you're probably not a nerd. Might be a music geek, though."
What happens if I think of both?
posted by Samizdata at 10:09 PM on June 4, 2013
What happens if I think of both?
posted by Samizdata at 10:09 PM on June 4, 2013
graphnerd: "Tangentially and tenuously related to this conversation: does use of the word 'grok' fit into this conversation at all? I've only ever seen it (never heard it) used in geekier forums online.
Is it a regionalism? A subculture thing?"
It's a "I really liked Stranger In A Strange Land (or at least the first half) a lot" thing.
And when you consider the idea that grokking in fullness means to so completely understand something you permanently incorporate it indelibly into yourself so that it becomes one with you for all time, it's a nifty low-syllable way to say "I listened and I REALLY understand what you said/you..."
posted by Samizdata at 10:11 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is it a regionalism? A subculture thing?"
It's a "I really liked Stranger In A Strange Land (or at least the first half) a lot" thing.
And when you consider the idea that grokking in fullness means to so completely understand something you permanently incorporate it indelibly into yourself so that it becomes one with you for all time, it's a nifty low-syllable way to say "I listened and I REALLY understand what you said/you..."
posted by Samizdata at 10:11 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Probably means you live in the Misison, Samizdata.
posted by maryr at 10:13 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 10:13 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I stopped reading when I got to all those graphs too. It just seemed to be saying "Look how smart I am! Everyone? Is everyone aware of how smart I am? Ok good".
posted by MattMangels at 10:48 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by MattMangels at 10:48 PM on June 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
I knew I was a geek when I could recall obscure Pokemon, despite having never collected the cards or played the game. It's like some tyrannical subconscious leached the information from my sons' blatherings. Like that Stephen King book where he ate his twin and grew teeth on his butt.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:14 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Brocktoon at 11:14 PM on June 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I thought I was going to be annoyed by this but, because usually when people try to make distinctions between the two words it's totally arbitrary, but this is based on real data about how the words are actually used.
(I mean everyone knows being proud of how smart you are is totally déclassé)
posted by delmoi at 12:25 AM on June 5, 2013
Going by this terminology, sports nerds are the players, plus the coaches, assistant coaches, all those people involved with making the sport possible. And the amateurs who go out and play, too.Well, if we go by his terminology a player or coach might be a nerd, along with people like Nate Silver who study all the sports data and know everything about it. On the other hand, a sports geek would be someone who buys all the sports memorabilia, always goes to the games and paints their chest different colors.
I'm not suggesting "fake geek girl" because I think that whole idea is stupid and mean-spirited. But I was genuinely surprised at how different the definition of geek and nerd had become from my formative years for someone to so casually identify themselves as such. I never asked her why she considered herself a nerd, because it seemed to close to the whole fake geek girl issue and I didn't want to be exclusionary. But it was obviously a dramatically different reason from my own self label.Yeah. One of the big differences is that people who are neither geeky nor nerdy tend to call themselves 'nerds' but not geeks. Being a 'nerd' has become cool and basically just means "smart" to a lot of people now.
Yeah, I stopped reading when I got to all those graphs too. It just seemed to be saying "Look how smart I am! Everyone? Is everyone aware of how smart I am? Ok good".You mean like some kind of nerd?
(I mean everyone knows being proud of how smart you are is totally déclassé)
posted by delmoi at 12:25 AM on June 5, 2013
I like the analysis, but then it pretty much aligned with my preconceptions. Tools like this are probably the best way of deciding what terms like "nerd" and "geek" mean, because words mean what we all think they do after all. Because the terms are a bit nebulous and not fully understood to mean one thing or another it can lead to confusion. Fortunately nothing particularly important is associated with correctly labelling something as a geek or nerd.
I'm not sure in my youth I was ever called nerd or geek, the prefered insult at the time in my school being "boffin". I'm not quite sure how a term that is essentially complimentary became an insuly, but that was secondary school for you: the pursuit of knowledge, or the indication of enjoying learning was anathema.
One point on that chart: the author picked out terms that they found appropriate. Obviously a different set of words might tell a somewhat different story. It might be useful to also see a collection of terms with high nerd/low geek and visa versa terms, as these are presumably the most telling.
Also
BTW, if you see CSS and think Cansei de Ser Sexy, what you are is a hipster, not a music geek.
Oh gods don't start that...
posted by Cannon Fodder at 1:43 AM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure in my youth I was ever called nerd or geek, the prefered insult at the time in my school being "boffin". I'm not quite sure how a term that is essentially complimentary became an insuly, but that was secondary school for you: the pursuit of knowledge, or the indication of enjoying learning was anathema.
One point on that chart: the author picked out terms that they found appropriate. Obviously a different set of words might tell a somewhat different story. It might be useful to also see a collection of terms with high nerd/low geek and visa versa terms, as these are presumably the most telling.
Also
BTW, if you see CSS and think Cansei de Ser Sexy, what you are is a hipster, not a music geek.
Oh gods don't start that...
posted by Cannon Fodder at 1:43 AM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Or we could just let the two of them fight over it.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:34 AM on June 5, 2013
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:34 AM on June 5, 2013
Did you know there are people who think there's a real difference between "Trekker" and "Trekkie"? Did you know there are people who get upset if you use "Hacker" to refer to malicious computer criminals, who they argue should be called "Crackers"?
If you're concerned about "Geek" vs "Nerd" then the simple answer is that you're one or the other or both and it doesn't matter which.
posted by Legomancer at 6:04 AM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you're concerned about "Geek" vs "Nerd" then the simple answer is that you're one or the other or both and it doesn't matter which.
posted by Legomancer at 6:04 AM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
maryr: "Or maybe SoMa?"
Nope. I live in Central Illinois.
posted by Samizdata at 6:16 AM on June 5, 2013
Nope. I live in Central Illinois.
posted by Samizdata at 6:16 AM on June 5, 2013
Legomancer: "Did you know there are people who think there's a real difference between "Trekker" and "Trekkie"? Did you know there are people who get upset if you use "Hacker" to refer to malicious computer criminals, who they argue should be called "Crackers"?
If you're concerned about "Geek" vs "Nerd" then the simple answer is that you're one or the other or both and it doesn't matter which."
I am one of the latter. I consider myself a hacker, which means I like to tweak, twiddle and improve on my digital environment to make things work the way I want them to work. I am NOT trying to sneak into NASA systems or make cyberwar on China. I am SO FRAGGING SICK of people assuming I am a "cybercriminal" when I mention hacking. And THAT is why I care.
posted by Samizdata at 6:19 AM on June 5, 2013
If you're concerned about "Geek" vs "Nerd" then the simple answer is that you're one or the other or both and it doesn't matter which."
I am one of the latter. I consider myself a hacker, which means I like to tweak, twiddle and improve on my digital environment to make things work the way I want them to work. I am NOT trying to sneak into NASA systems or make cyberwar on China. I am SO FRAGGING SICK of people assuming I am a "cybercriminal" when I mention hacking. And THAT is why I care.
posted by Samizdata at 6:19 AM on June 5, 2013
Well then, Samizdata, I got nothing. You are an anomoly, a single digital hi-fi anemone in a vast sea of soybeans and corn.
posted by maryr at 3:05 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 3:05 PM on June 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I thought the analysis and the graphs were actually pretty bomb. Haters gonna hate.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:19 PM on June 5, 2013
posted by en forme de poire at 8:19 PM on June 5, 2013
maryr: "Well then, Samizdata, I got nothing. You are an anomoly, a single digital hi-fi anemone in a vast sea of soybeans and corn."
Imma dork. Go ahead and say it. I came to terms with my crippling disability as a child when I realized there was no treatment for me.
posted by Samizdata at 2:34 AM on June 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Imma dork. Go ahead and say it. I came to terms with my crippling disability as a child when I realized there was no treatment for me.
posted by Samizdata at 2:34 AM on June 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
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please don't tell me we're still doing this
posted by Tomorrowful at 4:50 PM on June 4, 2013 [38 favorites]