Uh oh. The KKK's got death rays now!
June 19, 2013 11:20 AM Subscribe
Did you hear the one about the KKK-member in NY who made a death ray? In a weird twist, he targeted Jewish Groups--for sales. "An industrial mechanic with General Electric Co., who is also allegedly a member of the Ku Klux Klan, designed a deadly, mobile radiation device that he tried to sell to Jewish groups and then to a southern branch of the Ku Klux Klan, according to a federal complaint unsealed Wednesday in Albany" (found via TPM)
Even the smart racists are pretty fucking stupid.
posted by Etrigan at 11:25 AM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:25 AM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
I always want stories like this to include the phrase "registered voter."
posted by Navelgazer at 11:25 AM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:25 AM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
A Nazi's gotta eat.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:27 AM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:27 AM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
Crawford never actually obtained a radiation source. During the past year, the complaint indicates he was dealing with an undercover FBI agent pretending to be a supplier of radiation equipment, such as x-ray tubes used in construction projects or medical devices.
Ah yes...another one of the conspiracies where the culprit is an FBI agent.
posted by goethean at 11:28 AM on June 19, 2013 [23 favorites]
Ah yes...another one of the conspiracies where the culprit is an FBI agent.
posted by goethean at 11:28 AM on June 19, 2013 [23 favorites]
Once more we see the problem of bringing a mad mechanic or engineer to a mad scientist sort of situation.
On the other hand, incompetence is the outcome I like to see in these cases.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, incompetence is the outcome I like to see in these cases.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would be weird to go to jail for attempting to do something that's not actually possible.
posted by goethean at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by goethean at 11:29 AM on June 19, 2013 [15 favorites]
In a weird twist, he targeted Jewish Groups--for sales.
Whenever possible, arms dealers will sell to both sides, either side, or any side.
posted by ceribus peribus at 11:35 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
Whenever possible, arms dealers will sell to both sides, either side, or any side.
posted by ceribus peribus at 11:35 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
Would somebody please tell the Times-Union to stop getting their stories from their secret stash of post WW2 sci-fi? It's starting to strain their credibility.
posted by CrunchyFrog at 11:35 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by CrunchyFrog at 11:35 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
A Nazi's gotta eat.
Paula Deen's new slogan!
posted by scody at 11:36 AM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
Paula Deen's new slogan!
posted by scody at 11:36 AM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
Actually it is possible... sounds like he was trying to develop a mobile version of a radiotherapy device. I guess the idea was to give people cancer or radiation sickness rather than build an Emperor Ming device.
posted by crapmatic at 11:36 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by crapmatic at 11:36 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
It would be weird to go to jail for attempting to do something that's not actually possible.
I don't know--he was just trying to build a turbo-charged X-Ray machine and he was a GE engineer. I'm sure you could soup up an X-ray machine to deliver lethal doses of radiation, like he planned. Not sure his stated aims in terms of portability and payload could easily be met...
posted by saulgoodman at 11:39 AM on June 19, 2013
I don't know--he was just trying to build a turbo-charged X-Ray machine and he was a GE engineer. I'm sure you could soup up an X-ray machine to deliver lethal doses of radiation, like he planned. Not sure his stated aims in terms of portability and payload could easily be met...
posted by saulgoodman at 11:39 AM on June 19, 2013
Once more we see the problem of bringing a mad mechanic or engineer to a mad scientist sort of situation.
Hey, hey, it takes all kinds. If the mad community is ever going to build a death ray or establish a secret lair in a volcano, it will require cooperation among the mad scientists, mad engineers, and mad mechanics.
posted by Area Man at 11:42 AM on June 19, 2013 [11 favorites]
Hey, hey, it takes all kinds. If the mad community is ever going to build a death ray or establish a secret lair in a volcano, it will require cooperation among the mad scientists, mad engineers, and mad mechanics.
posted by Area Man at 11:42 AM on June 19, 2013 [11 favorites]
that he tried to sell to Jewish groups
"He asked to speak with a person who might be willing to help him with a type of technology that could be used by Israel to defeat its enemies, specifically, by killing Israel's enemies while they slept."
How is this any different than what "legitimate" U.S. defense contractors do? What's the crime here?
posted by three blind mice at 11:42 AM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
"He asked to speak with a person who might be willing to help him with a type of technology that could be used by Israel to defeat its enemies, specifically, by killing Israel's enemies while they slept."
How is this any different than what "legitimate" U.S. defense contractors do? What's the crime here?
posted by three blind mice at 11:42 AM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
Just to be clear if I want one of these I need to buy it from the FBI?
posted by cjorgensen at 11:44 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 11:44 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
During the meeting at the restaurant a year ago, Crawford described his plan to purchase or construct a powerful industrial x-ray machine that would be powered by batteries. The plan included an attempt by Crawford to find part-time work in a metal shop where he would have access to x-ray tubes, the complaint states.
Reading things like this just makes me feel that we really prioritize spending for criminal justice over spending on mental health too much. When he goes to jail, who wins? The imaginary victims of his impossible plans?
posted by Quonab at 11:44 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
Reading things like this just makes me feel that we really prioritize spending for criminal justice over spending on mental health too much. When he goes to jail, who wins? The imaginary victims of his impossible plans?
posted by Quonab at 11:44 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have enemies.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:45 AM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 11:45 AM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
three blind mice: " How is this any different than what "legitimate" U.S. defense contractors do? What's the crime here?"
From the article:
posted by zarq at 11:48 AM on June 19, 2013
From the article:
"Crawford also told the (source) that the target of his radiation emitting device would be the Muslim community," the complaint states. "Crawford described the device's capabilities as 'Hiroshima on a light switch' and that 'everything with respiration would be dead by the morning.'"
Crawford ended the meeting by stating "how much sweeter could there be than a big stack of smelly bodies?"
The FBI complaint charges Crawford and Feight with conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists, including use of a weapon of mass destruction."
posted by zarq at 11:48 AM on June 19, 2013
Leave the ray gun. Take the cannoli.
posted by ocschwar at 11:58 AM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 11:58 AM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
Hunh. Turns out that there is a threshold beyond which a newspaper will call a white person a terrorist.
posted by Zed at 12:03 PM on June 19, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by Zed at 12:03 PM on June 19, 2013 [15 favorites]
Like most here, I assume this wouldn't work, but I wonder if anyone with a nuclear science background could explain why. I'm guessing you'd never be able to produce anything near a lethal dose from X-ray tubes unless the victim was kind enough to sit next to an array of them at full power for a few days. But I'm getting my sieverts mixed up with my becquerels over on Wikipedia.
posted by echo target at 12:05 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by echo target at 12:05 PM on June 19, 2013
How is this any different than what "legitimate" U.S. defense contractors do?
Did you miss the part where he isn't even a quote-unquote legitimate US defense contractor?
posted by octobersurprise at 12:08 PM on June 19, 2013
Did you miss the part where he isn't even a quote-unquote legitimate US defense contractor?
posted by octobersurprise at 12:08 PM on June 19, 2013
I blame Albany. It's a weird place.
posted by angrycat at 12:08 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 12:08 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm not so sure, echo target. Depending on how you define "work," it seems like a device like this could be built that might do some damage--if you could keep your targets from noticing you're using it on them, because I imagine it wouldn't have much range. According to this article, smaller X-ray devices (in this case, due to faulty workmanship) can deliver dangerous levels of X-ray radiation. Doubtful it would be anything at all comparable to "Hiroshima on a light switch" though.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:12 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by saulgoodman at 12:12 PM on June 19, 2013
When he goes to jail, who wins? The imaginary victims of his impossible plans?
We all win. We are all now safe from his non-existent deadly mobile radiation device.
posted by goethean at 12:14 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
We all win. We are all now safe from his non-existent deadly mobile radiation device.
posted by goethean at 12:14 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
How is this any different than what "legitimate" U.S. defense contractors do?
For all of the critiques that can be made about U.S. foreign policy, "not administered by lone crazy klansman" is not really one of them.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:15 PM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
For all of the critiques that can be made about U.S. foreign policy, "not administered by lone crazy klansman" is not really one of them.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:15 PM on June 19, 2013 [10 favorites]
smaller X-ray devices can deliver dangerous levels of X-ray radiation
Even then, they're talking about "increased risk to their health...over time" for the dentists running the machine every day. If the faulty dental scanners were delivering 10 times the normal dose, that's about 50μSv according to XKCD's Radiation Dose Chart. That's a little more radiation than you get from flying NY to LA, or 1/4000000 of a lethal dose.
So maybe I'm answering my own question, but I'm still curious how much radiation would actually come out of a van full of X-ray tubes. Can't seem to find the proper conversions for that.
posted by echo target at 12:25 PM on June 19, 2013
Even then, they're talking about "increased risk to their health...over time" for the dentists running the machine every day. If the faulty dental scanners were delivering 10 times the normal dose, that's about 50μSv according to XKCD's Radiation Dose Chart. That's a little more radiation than you get from flying NY to LA, or 1/4000000 of a lethal dose.
So maybe I'm answering my own question, but I'm still curious how much radiation would actually come out of a van full of X-ray tubes. Can't seem to find the proper conversions for that.
posted by echo target at 12:25 PM on June 19, 2013
In addition to what saulgoodman said above, this list on wikipedia should give you a good idea of how non-weaponized radiation sources (such as that in medical equipment) can really mess up someone's day.
posted by mrbill at 12:26 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by mrbill at 12:26 PM on June 19, 2013
The Goiânia accident was the specific one I had in mind and had to hunt down.
posted by mrbill at 12:28 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by mrbill at 12:28 PM on June 19, 2013
Area Man: Once more we see the problem of bringing a mad mechanic or engineer to a mad scientist sort of situation.What do you think mad minions are for? Fetching mad coffee?
Hey, hey, it takes all kinds. If the mad community is ever going to build a death ray or establish a secret lair in a volcano, it will require cooperation among the mad scientists, mad engineers, and mad mechanics.
THEY'RE UNIONIZED, YOU KNOW!
posted by IAmBroom at 12:33 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
goethean: It would be weird to go to jail for attempting to do something that's not actually possible.Pretty sure attempting to buy large amounts of radioactive material without proper permissions is against the law. Could be wrong - but I shouldn't be, in this case.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:36 PM on June 19, 2013
The Goiânia accident was the specific one I had in mind and had to hunt down.
It feels like the Therac-25 incident might be more informative here. I think that was a purely electrical x-ray source (although I am not sure) and it was able to produce enough x-rays to produce rapid harm under certain conditions.
posted by Mitrovarr at 12:36 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
It feels like the Therac-25 incident might be more informative here. I think that was a purely electrical x-ray source (although I am not sure) and it was able to produce enough x-rays to produce rapid harm under certain conditions.
posted by Mitrovarr at 12:36 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
And actually, as it turns out, the FBI reportedly didn't get involved until after the accused men had already built a triggering mechanism for the device and contacted the Synagogue attempting to sell the weapon. It was the Synagogue that notified the FBI, so this doesn't look like the kind of borderline entrapment we've seen in some other cases.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:43 PM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 12:43 PM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think that was a purely electrical x-ray source (although I am not sure) and it was able to produce enough x-rays to produce rapid harm under certain conditions.
The machine had an x-ray source, but the injuries and deaths were caused by the electron beam source which had been improperly rotated into the x-ray beam path. Those victims were exposed high-energy beta particles, not x-rays.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:49 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
The machine had an x-ray source, but the injuries and deaths were caused by the electron beam source which had been improperly rotated into the x-ray beam path. Those victims were exposed high-energy beta particles, not x-rays.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:49 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
The FBI has gotten really good at empowering nutters into thinking that their plans are feasible and worthy of making the jump from talk to action. Bravo! They should coin a new phrase for the unique form of legal entrapment.
How about COunter INTELligence PROgram?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:56 PM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
How about COunter INTELligence PROgram?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:56 PM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
What do you think mad minions are for? Fetching mad coffee?
THEY'RE UNIONIZED, YOU KNOW!
Well, only until you get around to ionizing them.
posted by Four Ds at 1:04 PM on June 19, 2013 [21 favorites]
THEY'RE UNIONIZED, YOU KNOW!
Well, only until you get around to ionizing them.
posted by Four Ds at 1:04 PM on June 19, 2013 [21 favorites]
crapmatic: "Actually it is possible... sounds like he was trying to develop a mobile version of a radiotherapy device. I guess the idea was to give people cancer or radiation sickness rather than build an Emperor Ming device."
Oh, so you're saying this thing couldn't have popped a giant Jiffy Pop from a plane?
:(
posted by brundlefly at 1:08 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, so you're saying this thing couldn't have popped a giant Jiffy Pop from a plane?
:(
posted by brundlefly at 1:08 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
but I'm still curious how much radiation would actually come out of a van full of X-ray tubes. Can't seem to find the proper conversions for that.
A Fansworth fusor device (google it) can deliver a lethal dose of neutron radiation for many meters around it - not in a beam but in a spherical pattern - and can fit on a tabletop and cost less than a thousand to build if you use surplus parts. In normal operation the radiation can be fairly easily blocked but if you increase the voltage beyond recommended limits ....
The more you know ... the scarier the world is.
posted by Podkayne of Pasadena at 1:16 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
A Fansworth fusor device (google it) can deliver a lethal dose of neutron radiation for many meters around it - not in a beam but in a spherical pattern - and can fit on a tabletop and cost less than a thousand to build if you use surplus parts. In normal operation the radiation can be fairly easily blocked but if you increase the voltage beyond recommended limits ....
The more you know ... the scarier the world is.
posted by Podkayne of Pasadena at 1:16 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
"The FBI complaint charges Crawford and Feight with conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists, including use of a weapon of mass destruction."
Wait, is that what we're calling Israel now? That sounds ridiculous on the face of it - nation states aren't terrorists (by any contemporary definition). Also, isn't the US pretty comfortable with Israel having WMDs?
posted by el io at 1:20 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Wait, is that what we're calling Israel now? That sounds ridiculous on the face of it - nation states aren't terrorists (by any contemporary definition). Also, isn't the US pretty comfortable with Israel having WMDs?
posted by el io at 1:20 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
el io, I think that was meant to refer to the men's second attempt to sell the weapon to a chapter of the KKK. And they didn't try to sell the weapon to Israel--they apparently tried to sell it to random(?) people at an American synagogue.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:31 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by saulgoodman at 1:31 PM on June 19, 2013
Albany: the Florida of the North.
Also, isn't the US pretty comfortable with Israel having WMDs?
I'm not setting out to defend anyone having WMDs, but this device aspires to be something quite different from a bomb or a gun. The weapon is designed to inflict generalized injuries which cause gradual sickening. It cannot even pretend to be targeted. It has no acute purpose in combat.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:41 PM on June 19, 2013
Also, isn't the US pretty comfortable with Israel having WMDs?
I'm not setting out to defend anyone having WMDs, but this device aspires to be something quite different from a bomb or a gun. The weapon is designed to inflict generalized injuries which cause gradual sickening. It cannot even pretend to be targeted. It has no acute purpose in combat.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:41 PM on June 19, 2013
It's only a matter of time until terrorists unleash Reagan on the world!!!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:50 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:50 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I remember sometime back in the 1950s, the "Amateur Scientist" column in Scientific American had instructions for building your own X-ray machine using an old Model T spark coil and a discarded vacuum tube. With neato illustrations of things X-rayed with the homemade device, right there at home. Yeah, this.
My dad wouldn't let me do it.
In retrospect, Dad was even smarter than I realized.
posted by hank at 1:53 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
My dad wouldn't let me do it.
In retrospect, Dad was even smarter than I realized.
posted by hank at 1:53 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
From the article, with some redactions of my own:
Published reports also indicate that Crawford's son, ********, is a former ****** High School honor student and a member of the **********.
What the hell, Times Union? Why are you doxing this guy's kid? What purpose does this serve?
NB: I grew up in Schenectady County, where the nickname for the Times Union was the Times Useless.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:56 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Published reports also indicate that Crawford's son, ********, is a former ****** High School honor student and a member of the **********.
What the hell, Times Union? Why are you doxing this guy's kid? What purpose does this serve?
NB: I grew up in Schenectady County, where the nickname for the Times Union was the Times Useless.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:56 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's been an odd day. I'm seeing this story now, about a KKK member, just about 5 minutes after seeing a story over at the "AV Club" about Paula Deen apparently having spouted off a bunch of racist jokes.
That might seem like a thin connection, except: my wife is always giving me a hard time about me supposedly being a big fan of Paula Deen, because (a) she believes that the food that Deen makes is exactly the type of food I most enjoy (not true), and (b) I can't stand the way the woman speaks. It's not that I dislike Southern accents, per se, it's more that I suspect Deen of exaggerating the hell out of her accent as part of her public persona. But when I went to explain that to my wife, I ended up doing a very broad imitation of what Deen's accent sounds like to me, as I talked about how popular this catfish recipe was at the last Klan picnic.
So I'm experiencing a feeling like maybe the universe is just messing with my head today.
posted by Ipsifendus at 1:57 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
That might seem like a thin connection, except: my wife is always giving me a hard time about me supposedly being a big fan of Paula Deen, because (a) she believes that the food that Deen makes is exactly the type of food I most enjoy (not true), and (b) I can't stand the way the woman speaks. It's not that I dislike Southern accents, per se, it's more that I suspect Deen of exaggerating the hell out of her accent as part of her public persona. But when I went to explain that to my wife, I ended up doing a very broad imitation of what Deen's accent sounds like to me, as I talked about how popular this catfish recipe was at the last Klan picnic.
So I'm experiencing a feeling like maybe the universe is just messing with my head today.
posted by Ipsifendus at 1:57 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't get it: aren't the KKK anti-Jewish, as well as being anti-Muslim? Any KKK MeFites care to weigh in here?
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:07 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:07 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I guess the idea was to give people cancer or radiation sickness rather than build an Emperor Ming device.
Gotta crawl before you can walk.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:18 PM on June 19, 2013
Gotta crawl before you can walk.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:18 PM on June 19, 2013
The Paula Deen story seems to have been sourced from the National Enquirer. Probably a good idea to take it with a grain of salt pat of salted butter until a more... reputable (not batshit insane) publication researches and reports it.
posted by zarq at 2:34 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by zarq at 2:34 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't know--he was just trying to build a turbo-charged X-Ray machine and he was a GE engineer. I'm sure you could soup up an X-ray machine to deliver lethal doses of radiation, like he planned. Not sure his stated aims in terms of portability and payload could easily be met...I'm guessing that's not actaully possible. X-rays increase cancer risk slightly, maybe if you could expose someone for months or years it might increase their chances of getting cancer to like 50%?
Beyond that though you'd be using so much x-ray energy that you would be heating things up and it would be really noticeable.
Reading things like this just makes me feel that we really prioritize spending for criminal justice over spending on mental health too much. When he goes to jail, who wins? The imaginary victims of his impossible plans?Since when is stupidity a mental disorder? This guy isn't any different then anyone else who sells weapons to millitary groups, except for the fact that his wasn't actaully going to work.
The Goiânia accident was the specific one I had in mind and had to hunt down.Those were gamma rays, from a radioactive source.
It feels like the Therac-25 incident might be more informative here. I think that was a purely electrical x-ray source (although I am not sure) and it was able to produce enough x-rays to produce rapid harm under certain conditions.It was supposed to send X-rays, but if you read the article the error condition caused it to send beta radiation instead - but Beta radiation can't travel through walls.
posted by delmoi at 2:39 PM on June 19, 2013
What a schmuck. My cousin Murray in Boca knows a guy who can get a death ray at wholesale.
posted by dr_dank at 2:42 PM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 2:42 PM on June 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
The KKK Took My Death Ray Away.
posted by Redfield at 2:52 PM on June 19, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by Redfield at 2:52 PM on June 19, 2013 [6 favorites]
the "Amateur Scientist" column in Scientific American had instructions for building your own X-ray machine using an old Model T spark coil and a discarded vacuum tube.
That's so 1950's. Apparently all you need now is a roll of Scotch Tape
posted by Podkayne of Pasadena at 3:06 PM on June 19, 2013
That's so 1950's. Apparently all you need now is a roll of Scotch Tape
posted by Podkayne of Pasadena at 3:06 PM on June 19, 2013
Yawn. The KKK need to think bigger, like Aum Shinrikyo did when they tried to build Tesla's death ray.
posted by homunculus at 3:10 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 3:10 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
Ah yes...another one of the conspiracies where the culprit is an FBI agent.
goethean, did you actually read the article?
The FBI got involved AFTER he called a number of Jewish groups offering them the weapon. Asking who he should contact in order to further discuss the weapon. After saying insane things like:
Later that day, Crawford telephoned an Albany Jewish organization, using his cell phone, and made a similar offer, the complaint states. An FBI agent's affidavit indicates that someone at the unidentified synagogue contacted police, who relayed the information to the FBI. At that point a Joint Terrorism Task Force began an investigation.
There are many instances where you could claim the FBI was helping idiots come up with a terrorist conspiracy, but in this case, the FBI was brought in once citizens were intimidated by a man running around trying to find a way to mass murder Muslims.
posted by mulligan at 3:40 PM on June 19, 2013
goethean, did you actually read the article?
The FBI got involved AFTER he called a number of Jewish groups offering them the weapon. Asking who he should contact in order to further discuss the weapon. After saying insane things like:
"how much sweeter could there be than a big stack of smelly bodies?"He referred to Muslims and enemies of the United States as "medical waste,"
Later that day, Crawford telephoned an Albany Jewish organization, using his cell phone, and made a similar offer, the complaint states. An FBI agent's affidavit indicates that someone at the unidentified synagogue contacted police, who relayed the information to the FBI. At that point a Joint Terrorism Task Force began an investigation.
There are many instances where you could claim the FBI was helping idiots come up with a terrorist conspiracy, but in this case, the FBI was brought in once citizens were intimidated by a man running around trying to find a way to mass murder Muslims.
posted by mulligan at 3:40 PM on June 19, 2013
I don't get it: aren't the KKK anti-Jewish, as well as being anti-Muslim?
Wikipedia has a good article on this. Basically, the present KKK groups (the movement is fractured) are a hodge-podge of racist groups interacting with other racist groups. They're mostly anti-Black, but conceptually they're anti-everything-but-White-Protestants. I suspect that a KKK member doing something like this would have thought he was approaching the local branch of the Elders of Zion and that they would pay him many, many pieces of silver for betraying his race.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:03 PM on June 19, 2013
Wikipedia has a good article on this. Basically, the present KKK groups (the movement is fractured) are a hodge-podge of racist groups interacting with other racist groups. They're mostly anti-Black, but conceptually they're anti-everything-but-White-Protestants. I suspect that a KKK member doing something like this would have thought he was approaching the local branch of the Elders of Zion and that they would pay him many, many pieces of silver for betraying his race.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:03 PM on June 19, 2013
The KKK Took My Death Ray Away.
Goddammit! I was coming here to do a Ramones thing, too.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:33 PM on June 19, 2013
Goddammit! I was coming here to do a Ramones thing, too.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:33 PM on June 19, 2013
And they didn't try to sell the weapon to Israel--they apparently tried to sell it to random(?) people at an American synagogue.
That's the really telling part of this story. If you come from the mindset that Jews are this monolithic group of people all secretly running Israel, it comes natural that you could just stroll into any synagogue with your half-finished death ray and start pitching it to whoever happens to be there at the time. He probably expected to be given a suitcase full of money on the spot, with his blueprints flown at once to Tel Aviv. His own dangerous and cartoonish understanding of Jewish people pretty much guaranteed that any attempt to try some divide-and-conquer stylings would fail spectacularly. That and the whole super-charged X-ray machine idea.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:46 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
That's the really telling part of this story. If you come from the mindset that Jews are this monolithic group of people all secretly running Israel, it comes natural that you could just stroll into any synagogue with your half-finished death ray and start pitching it to whoever happens to be there at the time. He probably expected to be given a suitcase full of money on the spot, with his blueprints flown at once to Tel Aviv. His own dangerous and cartoonish understanding of Jewish people pretty much guaranteed that any attempt to try some divide-and-conquer stylings would fail spectacularly. That and the whole super-charged X-ray machine idea.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:46 PM on June 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
I don't get it: aren't the KKK anti-Jewish, as well as being anti-Muslim? Any KKK MeFites care to weigh in here?
Ever since 9/11, there's been a split among white supremacists over whether Jews are the subhuman secret masters of the world or if they're noble allies in the fight against Arabs.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:57 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
Ever since 9/11, there's been a split among white supremacists over whether Jews are the subhuman secret masters of the world or if they're noble allies in the fight against Arabs.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:57 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
Ipsifendus- I would be amazed and surprised if you could find a significant number of adult Americans who could truthfully claim to have never, ever told a sexist or racist joke. or used a racial epithet once.
posted by Megafly at 4:58 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by Megafly at 4:58 PM on June 19, 2013
I'd just like to add that I'm quite happy for the FBI to not make a judgement about whether or not something called a death ray is a legitimate weapon or not, and instead let the court sort out any "idea was too stupid" defense. I'd rather FBI agents not worry about the details of exactly what sort of radiological weapons are possible, and focus more on arresting people who want to, you know, buid death rays of any sort.
posted by kiltedtaco at 5:21 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by kiltedtaco at 5:21 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
Even if he could have built an x-ray death ray, how was the operator supposed to survive?
posted by double block and bleed at 5:51 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by double block and bleed at 5:51 PM on June 19, 2013
I don't know, I'd have to read the x-ray specs.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:52 PM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:52 PM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
CT SCANS! FREE CT SCANS! GETCHER FREE CT SCANS HERE NOW!
posted by spitbull at 5:54 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by spitbull at 5:54 PM on June 19, 2013
1. "Invent" a death ray machine that could never possibly work.
2. Sell it to your old enemies to use against your new enemies.
3. ????
4.Profit! Indictment!
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:06 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
2. Sell it to your old enemies to use against your new enemies.
3. ????
4.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:06 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Even if he could have built an x-ray death ray, how was the operator supposed to survive?
Their (apparent, alleged) notion of a focused death ray is funny and sort of tragic. It's hard to project harmful Xrays very far without starting with a really high powered source to begin with (or designing a good antenna to focus them). Neither of which these morons knew enough to accomplish.
However, and this the is the worrisome part - building an Xray generator is not hard, you can do it with 1920s technology. If someone built a high powered one and put it in a van next to a busy sidewalk.... well, you could mess up a bunch of people pretty easily. But as you point out, the operators are at risk, and anyway, as a terror weapon, it sort of lacks the Zap! Pow! pizzazz of a bomb or a sniper.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:17 PM on June 19, 2013
Their (apparent, alleged) notion of a focused death ray is funny and sort of tragic. It's hard to project harmful Xrays very far without starting with a really high powered source to begin with (or designing a good antenna to focus them). Neither of which these morons knew enough to accomplish.
However, and this the is the worrisome part - building an Xray generator is not hard, you can do it with 1920s technology. If someone built a high powered one and put it in a van next to a busy sidewalk.... well, you could mess up a bunch of people pretty easily. But as you point out, the operators are at risk, and anyway, as a terror weapon, it sort of lacks the Zap! Pow! pizzazz of a bomb or a sniper.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:17 PM on June 19, 2013
At least one of the three heads of the Aryan Brotherhood is half-Jewish, which strongly implies racist ideology takes a backseat when money is on the line.
posted by Amanojaku at 6:29 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by Amanojaku at 6:29 PM on June 19, 2013
Members of the Klan are not known for their ideological purity. Check out Operation Red Dog, when several Klansmen, a Barbadian weapons smuggler, and some black nationalists tried to overthrow the government of Dominica.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:47 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:47 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor: good news, everyone!
posted by SPrintF at 7:02 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 7:02 PM on June 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
At least one of the three heads of the Aryan Brotherhood is half-Jewish, which strongly implies racist ideology takes a backseat when money is on the line.
My understanding is that the AB is okay with racists but racism is not the organization's raison d'etre- it's profit and power.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:04 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
My understanding is that the AB is okay with racists but racism is not the organization's raison d'etre- it's profit and power.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:04 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Even if he could have built an x-ray death ray, how was the operator supposed to survive?
They were working on making it remote controlled.
posted by banished at 12:00 AM on June 20, 2013
They were working on making it remote controlled.
posted by banished at 12:00 AM on June 20, 2013
When he goes to jail, who wins? The imaginary victims of his impossible plans?
If your neighbor were working on this project, would you want him to be left alone until he reached the conclusion, "Man, this shit is hard!" and decided to arrange some sandbags in the front room and bought himself a nice hunting rifle?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:08 AM on June 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
If your neighbor were working on this project, would you want him to be left alone until he reached the conclusion, "Man, this shit is hard!" and decided to arrange some sandbags in the front room and bought himself a nice hunting rifle?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:08 AM on June 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think most of the negative reaction to this is based on prioritizing law enforcement. While agents are running a game on a very distant threat that they could already be easily surveilling other more serious crimes get by unchallenged.
Arresting this man is exactly what the FBI was supposed to do. The information about him came to the agency on a silver platter, phoned in as it had been from the Jewish groups. The suspect was already in the midst of criminal activity - he didn't need to be "pumped up". It's a relatively easy case, and it's good press for the FBI.
No, his cancer ray plans weren't workable at the present, but X-ray machines themselves are very easy to make. He could have easily hurt people in the process of making and testing this machine.
He could have figured out a way to make a very similar device which did present a real threat to people. He also could have become frustrated and moved on to more acute means of enacting violence.
There's a reason why trying to sell people a bad cancer ray is just as illegal as trying to sell people an excellent cancer ray. It is wrong to make and sell cancer rays. As long as you yourself had a genuine, reasonable belief that you were making and selling a workable cancer ray, then you're a shitty person and a criminal. The government isn't going to let you off just because you weren't quite there yet.
Doubly so, since the FBI has been retooled into an anti-terror agency since 9/11 while other serious crimes are pursued less.
This is going to sound like the sort of lie that a seventh grader would tell, but I really do have a friend who's a Special Agent in the Counterterrorism unit of the FBI. What you're saying does not at all jibe with what I hear. The FBI does all kinds of stuff, and the Counterterrorism unit is nicely enmeshed with the FBI's other parts.
In other words, arresting this guy didn't mean that, say, a wire fraud case elsewhere couldn't go forward.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:46 AM on June 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Arresting this man is exactly what the FBI was supposed to do. The information about him came to the agency on a silver platter, phoned in as it had been from the Jewish groups. The suspect was already in the midst of criminal activity - he didn't need to be "pumped up". It's a relatively easy case, and it's good press for the FBI.
No, his cancer ray plans weren't workable at the present, but X-ray machines themselves are very easy to make. He could have easily hurt people in the process of making and testing this machine.
He could have figured out a way to make a very similar device which did present a real threat to people. He also could have become frustrated and moved on to more acute means of enacting violence.
There's a reason why trying to sell people a bad cancer ray is just as illegal as trying to sell people an excellent cancer ray. It is wrong to make and sell cancer rays. As long as you yourself had a genuine, reasonable belief that you were making and selling a workable cancer ray, then you're a shitty person and a criminal. The government isn't going to let you off just because you weren't quite there yet.
Doubly so, since the FBI has been retooled into an anti-terror agency since 9/11 while other serious crimes are pursued less.
This is going to sound like the sort of lie that a seventh grader would tell, but I really do have a friend who's a Special Agent in the Counterterrorism unit of the FBI. What you're saying does not at all jibe with what I hear. The FBI does all kinds of stuff, and the Counterterrorism unit is nicely enmeshed with the FBI's other parts.
In other words, arresting this guy didn't mean that, say, a wire fraud case elsewhere couldn't go forward.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:46 AM on June 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by ocschwar at 11:23 AM on June 19, 2013 [3 favorites]