The strangers - Blood and Fear in Xinjiang
October 1, 2013 8:39 AM Subscribe
"Putting the kids out front echoed the Chinese depiction of ethnic minorities, regularly represented—as in the 2008 Olympic opening ceremonies—as children. It created a familiar, comfortable world for the majority Han clientele, especially since the kids, unlike their parents, spoke fluent Mandarin. When the back door opened, I sometimes got a glimpse of another world; a cluster of Uighur men and one woman smoking, cooking, and joking in their own language, entirely isolated from the diners." -- James Palmer on the ethnic tensions between Han Chinese and Uighur in Xinjiang.
Thanks for sharing this. I started mapping parallels onto other dominant cultures that I know,
The [ ] like their minorities to be beautiful women or cute children. If they are men, they should be old, or at the least dressed in a “traditional” costume, and preferably dancing.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:43 AM on October 1, 2013
The [ ] like their minorities to be beautiful women or cute children. If they are men, they should be old, or at the least dressed in a “traditional” costume, and preferably dancing.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:43 AM on October 1, 2013
it's something you see commented on more about the Chinese periphery than perhaps elsewhere - maybe the strident, brook-no-debate attitude of the central government invites that.
China does seem to push pretty hard on the "any area of land or water that any Chinese person has ever thought about is an historical and integral part of China" angle.
What examples of other countries doing this to such an extent (I think China is in territorial disputes with at least five of its neighbors?) were you thinking of?
posted by Sangermaine at 11:19 AM on October 1, 2013
China does seem to push pretty hard on the "any area of land or water that any Chinese person has ever thought about is an historical and integral part of China" angle.
What examples of other countries doing this to such an extent (I think China is in territorial disputes with at least five of its neighbors?) were you thinking of?
posted by Sangermaine at 11:19 AM on October 1, 2013
I know the article is about much more than the lede, but I couldn't read that without thinking of the stark racist differences in "fast casual" dining that I've seen (and I'm sure other restaurants beyond fast-casual).
All the white young hip people are up front, and the Latino population doing prep and such in the back.
I don't mean to compare or contrast anything else with this statement, as I'm sure there are plenty of issues that dig much much deeper and are unique to each country in regards to how it treats its minority citizens.
Is this a universal thing? Do minorities in other countries have a huge presence in the back end of a restaurant, while the front end is the more "presentable fiction" (whether young hipsters in the US or young Uighurs who are fluent in Mandarin in China)
posted by symbioid at 11:57 AM on October 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
All the white young hip people are up front, and the Latino population doing prep and such in the back.
I don't mean to compare or contrast anything else with this statement, as I'm sure there are plenty of issues that dig much much deeper and are unique to each country in regards to how it treats its minority citizens.
Is this a universal thing? Do minorities in other countries have a huge presence in the back end of a restaurant, while the front end is the more "presentable fiction" (whether young hipsters in the US or young Uighurs who are fluent in Mandarin in China)
posted by symbioid at 11:57 AM on October 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
maybe the strident, brook-no-debate attitude of the central government invites that.
-and-
China does seem to push pretty hard on the "any area of land or water that any Chinese person has ever thought about is an historical and integral part of China" angle.
Well, it could also be history that contributes to this attitude in the sense that China's always been on some form of the dynastic cycle, where periods of relatively stable rule have had gaps filled with rebels and regional warlords. So, any sign of challenge at the periphery of the kingdom should be dealt with, lest they grow to consume the core itself.
There's also the imperial angle that was briefly mentioned in the article. China's self-portrayal is of being a victim of imperial powers, not an imperial power itself. The victimhood comes from losing the Opium War to the British, which then followed a series of unequal treaties with foreign powers (Europe, the US, and Japan) that opened up the country to trade, missionaries, and preferred treatment of foreign citizens. That only ended after the collapse of the entire Qing Dynasty, restarting the dynastic cycle with the Chinese Civil War. The whole period is even called by the Chinese as "The Century of Humiliation". And this sort of national victimhood does affect how China views foreign admonition, especially when it involves foreign colonial powers talking about it's territory.
posted by FJT at 1:12 PM on October 1, 2013
-and-
China does seem to push pretty hard on the "any area of land or water that any Chinese person has ever thought about is an historical and integral part of China" angle.
Well, it could also be history that contributes to this attitude in the sense that China's always been on some form of the dynastic cycle, where periods of relatively stable rule have had gaps filled with rebels and regional warlords. So, any sign of challenge at the periphery of the kingdom should be dealt with, lest they grow to consume the core itself.
There's also the imperial angle that was briefly mentioned in the article. China's self-portrayal is of being a victim of imperial powers, not an imperial power itself. The victimhood comes from losing the Opium War to the British, which then followed a series of unequal treaties with foreign powers (Europe, the US, and Japan) that opened up the country to trade, missionaries, and preferred treatment of foreign citizens. That only ended after the collapse of the entire Qing Dynasty, restarting the dynastic cycle with the Chinese Civil War. The whole period is even called by the Chinese as "The Century of Humiliation". And this sort of national victimhood does affect how China views foreign admonition, especially when it involves foreign colonial powers talking about it's territory.
posted by FJT at 1:12 PM on October 1, 2013
I meant "former" colonial powers not "foreign" for that last sentence.
posted by FJT at 1:17 PM on October 1, 2013
posted by FJT at 1:17 PM on October 1, 2013
What examples of other countries doing this to such an extent (I think China is in territorial disputes with at least five of its neighbors?) were you thinking of?
Was thinking more of, for example, the way Hokkaido became more formally incorporated into a central Japanese polity only fairly late in the Tokugawa Shogunate IIRC, or maybe Russian expansion into Siberia that don't seem to be the object of so much international comment (any local separatist movements obviously being less prominent will of course be a big part of that). More of an idle aside than a manifesto, honest!
Imperialism strikes me as a reasonable term to describe how various parts of what are now seen as inalienable national territory came to be part of the state, my point was more that not sure that the Chinese state's historical claims are that much more or less tenuous than most - and to reiterate, don't think they should be some key determining factor as regards any Uighur aspirations to independence or greater autonomy either.
posted by Abiezer at 1:20 PM on October 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Was thinking more of, for example, the way Hokkaido became more formally incorporated into a central Japanese polity only fairly late in the Tokugawa Shogunate IIRC, or maybe Russian expansion into Siberia that don't seem to be the object of so much international comment (any local separatist movements obviously being less prominent will of course be a big part of that). More of an idle aside than a manifesto, honest!
Imperialism strikes me as a reasonable term to describe how various parts of what are now seen as inalienable national territory came to be part of the state, my point was more that not sure that the Chinese state's historical claims are that much more or less tenuous than most - and to reiterate, don't think they should be some key determining factor as regards any Uighur aspirations to independence or greater autonomy either.
posted by Abiezer at 1:20 PM on October 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
What examples of other countries doing this to such an extent
Well, historically the US comes to mind, manifest destiny and all. Currently, there's also Russia and its Near Abroad.
posted by MartinWisse at 1:22 PM on October 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, historically the US comes to mind, manifest destiny and all. Currently, there's also Russia and its Near Abroad.
posted by MartinWisse at 1:22 PM on October 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
China does seem to push pretty hard on the "any area of land or water that any Chinese person has ever thought about is an historical and integral part of China" angle.
This guy seems to think differently.
posted by klue at 1:23 PM on October 1, 2013
This guy seems to think differently.
posted by klue at 1:23 PM on October 1, 2013
One teacher I had said that China's government emphasized the non-Han peoples of China as a way to present an Other in order to unify the Han -- the Han who would otherwise be split along stark rural/urban lines. Much like the elite in the South used blacks to unify rich and poor whites.
posted by miyabo at 3:36 PM on October 1, 2013
posted by miyabo at 3:36 PM on October 1, 2013
Among the Han, the popular dislike for Uighur is more complicated. Some of it is simple resentment against minorities. Uighur and Tibetans are seen as ungrateful recipients of national largesse, especially since huge sums of money have been poured into China’s “backward” and “uncivilized” Western regions. From a grassroots Han perspective, the minorities get all the breaks: more generous social welfare, the leeway to have more than one child, lower score requirements to get into college, reserved spots in local government.No one tell the Republicans how quickly they could seal up the Han vote.
Much of this is a matter of perception: Xinjiang’s welfare benefits are the same as for other provinces, but because unemployment among the Uighur is so high, Uighur are far more likely to be living off the dole, sometimes combined with gray income.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:17 PM on October 1, 2013
Well-written article worth a read, thanks for posting. I thought this article was much more nuanced than most Western takes on the situation in Xinjiang, especially for the Han Chinese point of view. I liked the part about "Bruce", the Han student in Xinjiang, partly because I feel like that could have been me on the bus being tipped over, running for my life with a watermelon. Could the crowd tell a Chinese-American college kid from a local Han Chinese? Would they care?
I traveled in Xinjiang in 2007 for a few weeks and really loved it there - the landscape, the culture, the food, all amazing. Do I count as a "Han Chinese"? Probably not, but most people there took me for one anyway. I did try to learn some Uyghur, although my non-native Chinese and the poor quality of most Uyghur-as-as-second-language-for-Chinese-speakers books made it difficult. The food is incredible - here in NYC I go down to Cafe Kashkar in Brighton Beach every now and then for a taste, although there is no place outside of Xinjiang where I've tasted worthy laghman noodles.
The Beijing vs. Xinjiang time is really just a quoting convention; it's not like Han and Uyghurs wake up and go to work on a two hour time lag. I remember being quoted Xinjiang time by local Han and Uyghur alike in the far western and southern regions.
What he says about Turkish culture is true too; I remember "Ülker" brand Turkish chocolates in particular being popular. When I went to Turkey years later, it was in '09 just after the Urumqi riots. I remember being on a long-distance overnight bus chatting it up with the other passengers, when the conversation turned to the Uyghur Turks (as they are called in Turkey). A lot of Turks seem to feel an affinity with various Turkic peoples around the world and some even claimed that Mongols and Koreans are actually Turks. Anyhow, they asked me "Why are the Chinese oppressing them so much?" and everyone looked at me expectantly. Which, being a Chinese (the concept of hyphenated American doesn't really exist in Turkey) and having poor Turkish skills was pretty awkward. I felt like an unwilling spokesperson for the CPC put on the spot. My lame answer, "because the Uyghurs want their own country" went over surprisingly well with the crowd - I'm guessing because it mirrors the Kurdish situation in Turkey to some extent.
Prickly Han-Uyghur relations and all, I'm still hoping to go back someday.
posted by pravit at 4:43 PM on October 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
I traveled in Xinjiang in 2007 for a few weeks and really loved it there - the landscape, the culture, the food, all amazing. Do I count as a "Han Chinese"? Probably not, but most people there took me for one anyway. I did try to learn some Uyghur, although my non-native Chinese and the poor quality of most Uyghur-as-as-second-language-for-Chinese-speakers books made it difficult. The food is incredible - here in NYC I go down to Cafe Kashkar in Brighton Beach every now and then for a taste, although there is no place outside of Xinjiang where I've tasted worthy laghman noodles.
The Beijing vs. Xinjiang time is really just a quoting convention; it's not like Han and Uyghurs wake up and go to work on a two hour time lag. I remember being quoted Xinjiang time by local Han and Uyghur alike in the far western and southern regions.
What he says about Turkish culture is true too; I remember "Ülker" brand Turkish chocolates in particular being popular. When I went to Turkey years later, it was in '09 just after the Urumqi riots. I remember being on a long-distance overnight bus chatting it up with the other passengers, when the conversation turned to the Uyghur Turks (as they are called in Turkey). A lot of Turks seem to feel an affinity with various Turkic peoples around the world and some even claimed that Mongols and Koreans are actually Turks. Anyhow, they asked me "Why are the Chinese oppressing them so much?" and everyone looked at me expectantly. Which, being a Chinese (the concept of hyphenated American doesn't really exist in Turkey) and having poor Turkish skills was pretty awkward. I felt like an unwilling spokesperson for the CPC put on the spot. My lame answer, "because the Uyghurs want their own country" went over surprisingly well with the crowd - I'm guessing because it mirrors the Kurdish situation in Turkey to some extent.
Prickly Han-Uyghur relations and all, I'm still hoping to go back someday.
posted by pravit at 4:43 PM on October 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
Oh - and this song was HOT when I was in Xinjiang in '07. Playing everywhere. I even bought the CD!
posted by pravit at 5:48 PM on October 1, 2013
posted by pravit at 5:48 PM on October 1, 2013
(I think China is in territorial disputes with at least five of its neighbors?)
If you count the minor islands of the South China Sea*, like the Spratlys, then it's pretty much all of Southeast Asia.
*we prefer "Sea of Baruni".
posted by BinGregory at 7:34 PM on October 1, 2013
If you count the minor islands of the South China Sea*, like the Spratlys, then it's pretty much all of Southeast Asia.
*we prefer "Sea of Baruni".
posted by BinGregory at 7:34 PM on October 1, 2013
One teacher I had said that China's government emphasized the non-Han peoples of China as a way to present an Other in order to unify the Han -- the Han who would otherwise be split along stark rural/urban lines. Much like the elite in the South used blacks to unify rich and poor whites.
The PRC recognizes dozens of ethnic minorities, though, including Muslim ones like the Hui. But most of the conflict is with those on the periphery- the Uyghur and the Tibetans.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:34 PM on October 1, 2013
The PRC recognizes dozens of ethnic minorities, though, including Muslim ones like the Hui. But most of the conflict is with those on the periphery- the Uyghur and the Tibetans.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:34 PM on October 1, 2013
I was out there a few years ago. In some of the hinterlands the feeling of dissent was so palpable that it sent my companion and I, clearly westerners and both of us fairly well traveled in some more adventurous reaches of the earth scurrying back to the "han-zu" parts of town. In the cities we were fine, but in the villages we were clearly being sized up as either a potential ally or a potential threat and that made us rather uncomfortable since we preferred to just be observers. While 99% of people we met were fantastic, we were constantly followed in the Uighur parts of town and the guys following us usually didn't look like they wanted to buy us a drink.
On bizarre phenomenon we encountered all over Uighurstan were the non-assembly assemblies. We'd come upon very large groups, sometimes hundreds or more, of men in a park or empty lot all clustered in groups of three, not speaking to one another but furiously texting on their phones. It was crazy. Just an occasional quiet comment to one another, the shuffling of feet, smoking, throats clearing, etc. of a thousand men all in their black leather jackets and pointy black fur hats heads locked on cheap Chinese flip phones thumbs a-blazing. Our only speculation on what it could be was that the authorities won't allow them to assemble in groups larger than three, but if they clustered by the hundreds in threes they could get away with it. Maybe someone here has a better explaination.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 6:38 AM on October 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
On bizarre phenomenon we encountered all over Uighurstan were the non-assembly assemblies. We'd come upon very large groups, sometimes hundreds or more, of men in a park or empty lot all clustered in groups of three, not speaking to one another but furiously texting on their phones. It was crazy. Just an occasional quiet comment to one another, the shuffling of feet, smoking, throats clearing, etc. of a thousand men all in their black leather jackets and pointy black fur hats heads locked on cheap Chinese flip phones thumbs a-blazing. Our only speculation on what it could be was that the authorities won't allow them to assemble in groups larger than three, but if they clustered by the hundreds in threes they could get away with it. Maybe someone here has a better explaination.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 6:38 AM on October 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
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Realise I've met the author of this piece a couple of times around town - mean pub quiz contestant too as I recall.
posted by Abiezer at 9:22 AM on October 1, 2013