"This is crazy, man, I love it."
December 20, 2013 11:01 AM Subscribe
And then when Mayor Ford showed up with a big sack full of goodies and an entourage of "elves" their hearts all grew three sizes that day!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:16 AM on December 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:16 AM on December 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
"We are paralyzed in Canada, to be sure, tongue-tied and button-lipped and marooned on a Christmas-island of political correctness where the stereotypical Canadian politeness has been co-opted by the fear of offending anyone, a stranger, a student, a colleague, by uttering the most natural of things. For example, Merry Christmas during Christmas. Words, customs, civility have gotten lost while actions, like decorating a Christmas tree and inviting non-Christians to join in on a festive tradition that is the hallmark of dominant Canadian culture, have become inaction."Stay classy, National Post.
You know, of course the international, non-christian students wouldn't be offended at Christmas celebrations in Canada. They're visitors to a foreign culture.
But maybe Canadian Hindus and Muslims and atheists and others are offended by a hegemonic Christian celebration? That the people who are also part of this national culture but not Christians might be a little sensitive to the assumption that everyone celebrates Christmas?
If I'm visiting Mumbai as an American Christian (I'm not a Christian, but for the sake of the argument), it would be absurd for me to be offended by Hindu and other non-Christian celebrations. That's stupid. But if I'm an Indian Christian in Mumbai, I might quite rightly be offended by a hegemonic state and cultural structure that implicitly denies the legitimacy of my faith.
But, also, Canada quite explicitly intends to be multicultural and friendly to its various ethnicities and religious minorities. So, yeah, National Post, it's not silly political correctness that causes Canadians to be sensitive to the concerns of non-Christian Canadians. It's the spirit of inclusive community and simple respect.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:35 AM on December 20, 2013 [35 favorites]
I'll never forget the African* student living on my first-year residence floor in Kingston, Ontario on the night of the first really big snowfall of the winter;
Decades ago, my aunt taught in Nigeria for some years. In one class she showed the students some slides of life back in Canada. A picture of kids tobogganing caused alarm and anxiety among her students, as they thought these kids were in great peril sliding down a huge rock surface on a thin little board.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:37 AM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Decades ago, my aunt taught in Nigeria for some years. In one class she showed the students some slides of life back in Canada. A picture of kids tobogganing caused alarm and anxiety among her students, as they thought these kids were in great peril sliding down a huge rock surface on a thin little board.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:37 AM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
In the 70s, my mom mom was the manager of a tiny, two-person branch bank on the campus of the local university. She'd get to know and make friends with many students, but she especially was friendly to the international students. She'd invite them to our home for a dinner from time-to-time.
The university had one of the top cross-country track teams in the US and it ended up attracting a fair number of Kenyan students. One student was very enthusiastic about cooking for us one of his favorite traditional meals, a kind of very spicy red stew with a flat bread. He was worried about it being too hot for us, but my mom assured him that we weren't like the locals, we were true New Mexicans and were quite accustomed to very spicy foods.
And it was really good!
Mom got the recipe and she'd make it for dinner every now and then.
Later, when I went to a few different universities, I was very friendly to the international students I met, both because I'm interested in hearing about other people's homes and cultures, and also just because I grew up with an ethos of being welcoming. But what I quickly noticed was that I was very exceptional — most other non-international students just mostly ignored the international students and they naturally tended to self-segregate anyway. But my experience was that they were always friendly if you were friendly and welcoming to them. It just bugged me, though, that my fellow American students weren't taking advantage of the opportunity to get to know people they'd not be as likely to meet as otherwise.
Hopefully, Canadian university students aren't as, um, insular as American university students.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:48 AM on December 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
The university had one of the top cross-country track teams in the US and it ended up attracting a fair number of Kenyan students. One student was very enthusiastic about cooking for us one of his favorite traditional meals, a kind of very spicy red stew with a flat bread. He was worried about it being too hot for us, but my mom assured him that we weren't like the locals, we were true New Mexicans and were quite accustomed to very spicy foods.
And it was really good!
Mom got the recipe and she'd make it for dinner every now and then.
Later, when I went to a few different universities, I was very friendly to the international students I met, both because I'm interested in hearing about other people's homes and cultures, and also just because I grew up with an ethos of being welcoming. But what I quickly noticed was that I was very exceptional — most other non-international students just mostly ignored the international students and they naturally tended to self-segregate anyway. But my experience was that they were always friendly if you were friendly and welcoming to them. It just bugged me, though, that my fellow American students weren't taking advantage of the opportunity to get to know people they'd not be as likely to meet as otherwise.
Hopefully, Canadian university students aren't as, um, insular as American university students.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:48 AM on December 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
Looks like the Christmas celebration organized at Humber College was completely devoid of Nativity scenes, Christian prayers and hymns, and actual mention of Jesus. No wonder the foreign students just took it as a fun little shindig.
posted by growli at 11:49 AM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by growli at 11:49 AM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'll never forget the African* student living on my first-year residence floor in Kingston, Ontario on the night of the first really big snowfall of the winter; he was out there in jeans and a t-shirt, rolling around in the snow, tossing it around and laughing maniacally**.
Two stories:
1. My father in the late 1950s brought a friend home from college for a weekend, a Kenyan exchange student who was the son of a tribal cheiftan complete with ritual facal scarrification. My grandmother had never dined with a black person before and was very nervous that he would be offended by something she did or said. She had made fried chicken not knowing who the guest would be, he was not offended, however, he did have a little trouble picking the meat from the bones using his fork and the dull table knife set for him.
2. After learning he'd never been allowed into the ocean despite a mission assignment to Rio, I took a shunned, gay, ex-conservative mormon friend to the beach for the first time. He couldn't swim but he lay in the surf letting it wash over him while he giggled like a little kid. After hours of this he was blisteringly sunburned and covered in flotsam and sand, in other words it was one of the best days of his life.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:58 AM on December 20, 2013 [8 favorites]
Two stories:
1. My father in the late 1950s brought a friend home from college for a weekend, a Kenyan exchange student who was the son of a tribal cheiftan complete with ritual facal scarrification. My grandmother had never dined with a black person before and was very nervous that he would be offended by something she did or said. She had made fried chicken not knowing who the guest would be, he was not offended, however, he did have a little trouble picking the meat from the bones using his fork and the dull table knife set for him.
2. After learning he'd never been allowed into the ocean despite a mission assignment to Rio, I took a shunned, gay, ex-conservative mormon friend to the beach for the first time. He couldn't swim but he lay in the surf letting it wash over him while he giggled like a little kid. After hours of this he was blisteringly sunburned and covered in flotsam and sand, in other words it was one of the best days of his life.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:58 AM on December 20, 2013 [8 favorites]
This is actually a sweet story, but the framing completely misses the point: it is not the specific holiday that is "offensive" to some people (aside from those who are just offended by religion in general) -- it's the hegemony and the active exclusion of people of other faiths/cultures/traditions during the winter holiday season in a very multicultural society that really is offensive. It's the refusal to acknowledge that not all Canadians are Christmas-celebrating-Christians or whatever. It's the unspoken assumption that The Default Human Being Looks Like This And Does This Thing. Only those invested in denying that such a hierarchy and power structure exists at all would frame the issue this way. So, basically, keep it up, National Post. The examples in this article actually disprove the bizarre "WAR ON CHRISTMAS" angle that the NP and similar organizations have been pushing every holiday season for the past decade. The mental gymnastics must be exhausting.
posted by Ouisch at 12:07 PM on December 20, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by Ouisch at 12:07 PM on December 20, 2013 [9 favorites]
Please don't post National Post stories here. They suck.
posted by benito.strauss at 12:10 PM on December 20, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 12:10 PM on December 20, 2013 [9 favorites]
Looks like the Christmas celebration organized at Humber College was completely devoid of Nativity scenes, Christian prayers and hymns, and actual mention of Jesus. No wonder the foreign students just took it as a fun little shindig.
On a personal level, I always forget that for some people Xmas is all about Jesus. I'm American, and atheist since forever, so xmas has never been about that for me. In fact, I kinda get wierded out about a little bit. Like a nativity scene in a town square is fine because it's tradition, but why would you have one in your house? And why waste time in church on xmas eve when you can spend it at home with the family? Oh, right, Jesus.
posted by nooneyouknow at 12:13 PM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
On a personal level, I always forget that for some people Xmas is all about Jesus. I'm American, and atheist since forever, so xmas has never been about that for me. In fact, I kinda get wierded out about a little bit. Like a nativity scene in a town square is fine because it's tradition, but why would you have one in your house? And why waste time in church on xmas eve when you can spend it at home with the family? Oh, right, Jesus.
posted by nooneyouknow at 12:13 PM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
The National Post manages to put an optimistic spin on it, but I'm not quite so optimistic. I've noticed that organized religion within Canada tends to target two particularly vulnerable attributes of new immigrants and international students. First, upon first arriving, they lack a community, and second, they're under tremendous pressure and social obligation to assimilate as well.
My parents were targeted by several churches upon first coming to Canada; like me, they are completely non-spiritual atheists, so while they originally attended some services because they were grasping for a sense of community, they quickly distanced themselves from that community. I mean, they were fantastic in welcoming immigrants, but my parents could never shake the feeling that they were just dangling community in front of them in order to "save the souls of the poor heathen communist Chinese people." I think the final straw was when the church shoved religious picture books on them to give to me as a five-year old, laden with hand-written notes all over the inside praying for my soul and wishing that I would find God.
My cousin also recently arrived in Canada to study business management two years ago, and she also got recruited by a church that targeted immigrants. While my parents warned her, she came with a similar sense of culture shock and of lacking friends and community - and there were plenty of immigrants within the church that she could relate to who had similar experiences. She had an even worse experience compared to my parents - there was a woman within the church who deliberately took advantage of the immigrants' lack of experience with Canadian customs and desire for community, and talked them into paying $600 a month to stay in a tiny two-room apartment with 11 other people. My cousin got talked into doing so, and spent 6 months in that arrangement, constantly being guilted and constantly being told that she would no longer be welcome back to the community if she "left religion" (i.e. left the apartment), before she got fed up and finally left.
It's definitely deliberate. I go to a university that has a pretty high proportion of international students, and when I lived in the dorms, I would be constantly harassed every night when I walked back by men in suits trying to give me religious flyers printed in Chinese, and trying to start up conversations with me. No matter where I go in Canada, there's always at least a few people like that on the streets in public areas targeting me. (I've learned to shut them up by saying "I'm a homosexual liberal atheist scientist, so I'll take my place in hell, thank you very much.")
So the article makes me feel queasy. This article impresses religion as a necessary cultural component of Western culture - when it is decidedly not in Canada - and that takes advantage of the immigrant/international student's pressure to assimilate into Western culture. In the end, it feels really underhanded.
posted by Conspire at 12:16 PM on December 20, 2013 [12 favorites]
My parents were targeted by several churches upon first coming to Canada; like me, they are completely non-spiritual atheists, so while they originally attended some services because they were grasping for a sense of community, they quickly distanced themselves from that community. I mean, they were fantastic in welcoming immigrants, but my parents could never shake the feeling that they were just dangling community in front of them in order to "save the souls of the poor heathen communist Chinese people." I think the final straw was when the church shoved religious picture books on them to give to me as a five-year old, laden with hand-written notes all over the inside praying for my soul and wishing that I would find God.
My cousin also recently arrived in Canada to study business management two years ago, and she also got recruited by a church that targeted immigrants. While my parents warned her, she came with a similar sense of culture shock and of lacking friends and community - and there were plenty of immigrants within the church that she could relate to who had similar experiences. She had an even worse experience compared to my parents - there was a woman within the church who deliberately took advantage of the immigrants' lack of experience with Canadian customs and desire for community, and talked them into paying $600 a month to stay in a tiny two-room apartment with 11 other people. My cousin got talked into doing so, and spent 6 months in that arrangement, constantly being guilted and constantly being told that she would no longer be welcome back to the community if she "left religion" (i.e. left the apartment), before she got fed up and finally left.
It's definitely deliberate. I go to a university that has a pretty high proportion of international students, and when I lived in the dorms, I would be constantly harassed every night when I walked back by men in suits trying to give me religious flyers printed in Chinese, and trying to start up conversations with me. No matter where I go in Canada, there's always at least a few people like that on the streets in public areas targeting me. (I've learned to shut them up by saying "I'm a homosexual liberal atheist scientist, so I'll take my place in hell, thank you very much.")
So the article makes me feel queasy. This article impresses religion as a necessary cultural component of Western culture - when it is decidedly not in Canada - and that takes advantage of the immigrant/international student's pressure to assimilate into Western culture. In the end, it feels really underhanded.
posted by Conspire at 12:16 PM on December 20, 2013 [12 favorites]
This is pretty normal for the Post. It really is a terrible paper. Whenever they publish a story doesn't have an unpleasant editorial slant, chances are it came from a wire service.
It's a shame, because they sometimes manage to do real reporting and I'd like to be able to read that sort of thing without holding my nose.
posted by figurant at 12:28 PM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's a shame, because they sometimes manage to do real reporting and I'd like to be able to read that sort of thing without holding my nose.
posted by figurant at 12:28 PM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
So, are you gonna share the red stew and flatbread recipe, Ivan Fyodorovich? :D
I don't understand why international students aren't more eagerly embraced and welcomed. You get the rare opportunity to learn first-hand about a foreign culture, learn about new languages, traditions, food, clothing, the whole works, and you don't have to go anywhere!
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't understand why international students aren't more eagerly embraced and welcomed. You get the rare opportunity to learn first-hand about a foreign culture, learn about new languages, traditions, food, clothing, the whole works, and you don't have to go anywhere!
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
"Mom mom?"
Totally missed that. Weird how those doubled words happen.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:30 PM on December 20, 2013
Totally missed that. Weird how those doubled words happen.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:30 PM on December 20, 2013
Ho ho oh FFS.
posted by bicyclefish at 12:31 PM on December 20, 2013
posted by bicyclefish at 12:31 PM on December 20, 2013
This is heartwarming, just not for the reasons the National Post thinks it is.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:38 PM on December 20, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:38 PM on December 20, 2013 [7 favorites]
Yes, sorry, the Post is pretty bad (which makes it even more frustrating when you consider that it is the second best Toronto paper). I just thought the story (and especially the photos) were good enough to warrant a little nose-holding at the Post's editorializing.
posted by 256 at 12:43 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by 256 at 12:43 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Weird how those doubled words happen.
Dittography is the term for inadvertent repetition of letters or words. The Guardian's column Notes and Queries once asked its readership if there were any word in English more useless than this. Among the submissions from readers were wayzgoose (an annual picnic for those in the book trade), paneity (the state of being bread) and mallemaroking (the carousing of icebound sailors).
True story: many years after the Guardian article appeared, I went to a cinema to see a documentary about Ernest Shackleton (whose ship, the Endurance, as you may know, was trapped by pack ice for eight months on his 1915 expedition to the South Pole). In the box office window, beneath the sign showing admission prices and the rating for the film, was a a small neatly hand-lettered sign reading, WARNING: THIS FILM CONTAINS SCENES OF MALLEMAROKING.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:46 PM on December 20, 2013 [29 favorites]
Dittography is the term for inadvertent repetition of letters or words. The Guardian's column Notes and Queries once asked its readership if there were any word in English more useless than this. Among the submissions from readers were wayzgoose (an annual picnic for those in the book trade), paneity (the state of being bread) and mallemaroking (the carousing of icebound sailors).
True story: many years after the Guardian article appeared, I went to a cinema to see a documentary about Ernest Shackleton (whose ship, the Endurance, as you may know, was trapped by pack ice for eight months on his 1915 expedition to the South Pole). In the box office window, beneath the sign showing admission prices and the rating for the film, was a a small neatly hand-lettered sign reading, WARNING: THIS FILM CONTAINS SCENES OF MALLEMAROKING.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:46 PM on December 20, 2013 [29 favorites]
Decades ago, my aunt taught in Nigeria for some years. In one class she showed the students some slides of life back in Canada. A picture of kids tobogganing caused alarm and anxiety among her students, as they thought these kids were in great peril sliding down a huge rock surface on a thin little board.
Well, if any of those kids was on a Noma GT Snowracer, the students' alarm was not misplaced. This might actually be something useful to teach new Canadians.
Seriously, I have never been on a tobogganing excursion where someone was not injured by a Noma GT Snowracer.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:55 PM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Well, if any of those kids was on a Noma GT Snowracer, the students' alarm was not misplaced. This might actually be something useful to teach new Canadians.
Seriously, I have never been on a tobogganing excursion where someone was not injured by a Noma GT Snowracer.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:55 PM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
mom mom
The mere fact you call it that tells me that you are not ready.
But anyway, I too forget that Christmas has anything to do with Christianity. It's about trees and lights, cookies and drinking, seeing family and giving gifts.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 12:56 PM on December 20, 2013 [7 favorites]
The mere fact you call it that tells me that you are not ready.
But anyway, I too forget that Christmas has anything to do with Christianity. It's about trees and lights, cookies and drinking, seeing family and giving gifts.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 12:56 PM on December 20, 2013 [7 favorites]
I have never been on a tobogganing excursion
How y'all Canadians and Yankees go sledding on your hats I'll never know.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:00 PM on December 20, 2013
How y'all Canadians and Yankees go sledding on your hats I'll never know.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:00 PM on December 20, 2013
But anyway, I too forget that Christmas has anything to do with Christianity.
It doesn't really, it was co-opted by Christianity to entice Roman pagans away from Saturnalia in the 4th century CE.
posted by walrus at 1:01 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
It doesn't really, it was co-opted by Christianity to entice Roman pagans away from Saturnalia in the 4th century CE.
posted by walrus at 1:01 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
It doesn't really, it was co-opted by Christianity to entice Roman pagans away from Saturnalia in the 4th century CE.
Um, yes, yes it does. The DATE that it was changed to may have been chosen for this reason, but the holiday itself is the Mass celebrating Christ or the Christmas. I know a lot of protestants who abandoned the tradition until they rediscovered it in the mid 19th century have forgotten a lot of it's historical significance, but really, the Jesus Mass, whatever date it was set for, has been around for a long long time.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:06 PM on December 20, 2013
Um, yes, yes it does. The DATE that it was changed to may have been chosen for this reason, but the holiday itself is the Mass celebrating Christ or the Christmas. I know a lot of protestants who abandoned the tradition until they rediscovered it in the mid 19th century have forgotten a lot of it's historical significance, but really, the Jesus Mass, whatever date it was set for, has been around for a long long time.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:06 PM on December 20, 2013
SOLIS INVICTI TEMPORIS CAVSA
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:08 PM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:08 PM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Very few Christmas traditions have anything to do with Christ, but quite a lot to do with various pagan mid-winter festivals. Not that it really matters, a lot of water under that bridge.
posted by walrus at 1:08 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by walrus at 1:08 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
> I just thought the story (and especially the photos) were good enough to warrant a little nose-holding at the Post's editorializing.
Ah well, I'm probably being over sensitive. Maybe just a warning in the future? "Warning NatPost bullshit risks obscuring lovely story".
posted by benito.strauss at 1:14 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Ah well, I'm probably being over sensitive. Maybe just a warning in the future? "Warning NatPost bullshit risks obscuring lovely story".
posted by benito.strauss at 1:14 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Weird how those doubled words happen.
I do it with "the" a lot lately. No idea why.
posted by grubi at 1:29 PM on December 20, 2013
I do it with "the" a lot lately. No idea why.
posted by grubi at 1:29 PM on December 20, 2013
The 10th Regiment of Foot, if you change the date to try to incorporate the pagan holiday, it pretty much exists to coopt the holiday, as the previous poster said. Hell, is there any significant evidence that Christians held masses for the birthday of Jesus before it spread to Romans? There's a difference between Easter, which is a genuine Christian tradition that has also accreted a bunch of pagan spring festival adornments, and Christmas, which is essentially a pagan tradition with a Christian excuse pasted on top.
posted by tavella at 1:44 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 1:44 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
grubi, just do what I do and claim you're secretly Matt Johnson
posted by fullerine at 1:45 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by fullerine at 1:45 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
The thing that rankles me about all this "WAR ON CHRISTMAS" hullabaloo is that, well, unless I missed the the part where Luke and Matthew talk about the elves and the reindeer and the magic snowman and the eggnog and the jingle bells and the Douglas fir in the living room, it seems Jesus lost that war long before I was born.
Also, have these Recruiters for Christ ever actually read the Christmas story? You'd be hard-pressed to find a section of the New Testament that's any easier to write off as pure fantasy. It's just completely bonkers. Trying to convert people to Christianity with the Nativity is like trying to convert people to Scientology with the story of Xenu and the DC-8's. Maybe start with a personality test, is all I'm sayin'.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, have these Recruiters for Christ ever actually read the Christmas story? You'd be hard-pressed to find a section of the New Testament that's any easier to write off as pure fantasy. It's just completely bonkers. Trying to convert people to Christianity with the Nativity is like trying to convert people to Scientology with the story of Xenu and the DC-8's. Maybe start with a personality test, is all I'm sayin'.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
And answering my own question, in fact early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Jesus:
"The early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Jesus. The early church fathers Origen (d.255), St. Irenaeus (d. 202), and Tertullian (d. 220) do not include Christmas or its date on their lists of feasts and celebrations." (http://wahiduddin.net/words/christmas.htm)
Christmas was invented because the evangelists of Christianity were not stupid and knew that telling people that they had to give up the best party of the year was not a route to widespread popularity, so they said "sure, have a party, you are just having a party for JESUS now, instead of a pagan god". Anyone is quite free to celebrate Christmas purely by going to mass, but Jesus has never been the reason for the season.
posted by tavella at 2:01 PM on December 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
"The early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Jesus. The early church fathers Origen (d.255), St. Irenaeus (d. 202), and Tertullian (d. 220) do not include Christmas or its date on their lists of feasts and celebrations." (http://wahiduddin.net/words/christmas.htm)
Christmas was invented because the evangelists of Christianity were not stupid and knew that telling people that they had to give up the best party of the year was not a route to widespread popularity, so they said "sure, have a party, you are just having a party for JESUS now, instead of a pagan god". Anyone is quite free to celebrate Christmas purely by going to mass, but Jesus has never been the reason for the season.
posted by tavella at 2:01 PM on December 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
Hell, is there any significant evidence that Christians held masses for the birthday of Jesus before it spread to Romans?
The first recorded instance of Christmas being celebrated was in 336 CE (or AD if you like). Before that Epiphany was the closest celebration on 6th January.
posted by walrus at 2:01 PM on December 20, 2013
The first recorded instance of Christmas being celebrated was in 336 CE (or AD if you like). Before that Epiphany was the closest celebration on 6th January.
posted by walrus at 2:01 PM on December 20, 2013
grubi, just do what I do and claim you're secretly Matt Johnson
shhh!
posted by grubi at 2:02 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
shhh!
posted by grubi at 2:02 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Canadians celebrate Christmas?
posted by vorpal bunny at 2:12 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by vorpal bunny at 2:12 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, you Americans celebrate it in late January, right? But you must have a very different way of celebrating it. Apparently, if you're a student at the University of Washington, it involves coming up to Whistler, getting legally shitfaced for the first time in your life, and puking your 3am pizza all over my shop's front door.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 3:16 PM on December 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 3:16 PM on December 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
I'm going to say it, that gingerbread man is poorly decorated. You're Canadian now for god's sake.
posted by angerbot at 3:40 PM on December 20, 2013
posted by angerbot at 3:40 PM on December 20, 2013
Sme important Christain feasts have moved around. Christmas, the transfiguration, "reign of Christ" and so on. Some like the latter are quite new, some are ancient and some made up alomg the way.
For me as a Christian, i find the co-location of Advent, Christmas and the Solstice to be awesome. The story is, at heart, about finding the return of light in a world of ever increasing darkness. That it coincides in the north with the winter solstice is brilliant. In the liturgical calender, we now study Christ's life until Pentecost in June at which time we reenter "ordinary time" and spend time studying the stories of the old testament.
Tying these festivals to natural cycles gives one a powerful context for this spiritual path, as so much of it is about the idea, metaphor and story of light. Of course, by all narrative evidence, Jesus was probably born in the spring, during lambing season, but the "facts" don't matter to me as a progressive liberal Christian. Christianity for me is about a different kind of truth, one that can be embodied in this season in both religious and secular ways, illuminated through metaphor and story, through beauty and practice. And of course we can all screw it up too, with inappropriate power plays, a diffidence to privilage, and an immature approach to civil conversation whereby we claim the power we alrady have by making out to be victims.
At any rate, its an important holiday to me. I celebrate both the religious and secular forms of it, and think both have merit, that done well, both can put us in touch with generosity of spirit, kindness and apprciation of others.
posted by salishsea at 4:15 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
For me as a Christian, i find the co-location of Advent, Christmas and the Solstice to be awesome. The story is, at heart, about finding the return of light in a world of ever increasing darkness. That it coincides in the north with the winter solstice is brilliant. In the liturgical calender, we now study Christ's life until Pentecost in June at which time we reenter "ordinary time" and spend time studying the stories of the old testament.
Tying these festivals to natural cycles gives one a powerful context for this spiritual path, as so much of it is about the idea, metaphor and story of light. Of course, by all narrative evidence, Jesus was probably born in the spring, during lambing season, but the "facts" don't matter to me as a progressive liberal Christian. Christianity for me is about a different kind of truth, one that can be embodied in this season in both religious and secular ways, illuminated through metaphor and story, through beauty and practice. And of course we can all screw it up too, with inappropriate power plays, a diffidence to privilage, and an immature approach to civil conversation whereby we claim the power we alrady have by making out to be victims.
At any rate, its an important holiday to me. I celebrate both the religious and secular forms of it, and think both have merit, that done well, both can put us in touch with generosity of spirit, kindness and apprciation of others.
posted by salishsea at 4:15 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
If they get to keep the Christ in Christmas then I get to get the Thor in Thursday.
posted by The Whelk at 4:29 PM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 4:29 PM on December 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Frigg that.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:12 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 5:12 PM on December 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Santa Claus is now officially a citizen of Canada.
posted by islander at 5:55 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by islander at 5:55 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's something really fun about sharing things with people the first time. Working with grad students I have shared first snow, first pumpkin pie, first jack-o-lantern carving with lots of students and their kids, and it is always a great feeling.
One of my best/hardest moments though was asking a bunch of just-arrived grad students what they didn't like about Canada. About half of them said "Why do you ask how I am and then just walk away? Sometimes I'm not so good. Don't you care?" I no longer replace "Hi" with "How's it going"
posted by chapps at 6:06 PM on December 20, 2013
One of my best/hardest moments though was asking a bunch of just-arrived grad students what they didn't like about Canada. About half of them said "Why do you ask how I am and then just walk away? Sometimes I'm not so good. Don't you care?" I no longer replace "Hi" with "How's it going"
posted by chapps at 6:06 PM on December 20, 2013
Ill see your Thor and raise you Odin.
Only on Wednesdays though.
Nothing wrong with what you say about Christmas salishsea; my intent wasn't to mock anyone's beliefs, but it's nice to know the origins and meanings of stuff.
posted by walrus at 7:27 PM on December 20, 2013
Only on Wednesdays though.
Nothing wrong with what you say about Christmas salishsea; my intent wasn't to mock anyone's beliefs, but it's nice to know the origins and meanings of stuff.
posted by walrus at 7:27 PM on December 20, 2013
I agree that the article unfairly focuses on international students who are really visitors to Canada and hoping to fit in and sample the culture. I don't think it's the same for all the people who grow up here and are neither Christian nor Christmas-celebrating. Today, I told one of my doctors, who was leaving on a trip and who I am sure is Jewish, "I hope you have a nice trip." I could see she started to brace herself and then she moved to a genuine smile when I got to "nice trip". Similarly, when I wished another medical professional, "I hope you have a lovely holiday!" after she'd mentioned she was taking a few days off - she seemed to perk up. And that's how I am with everyone. I don't do Happy Holidays - it feels kind of empty. But "Have a lovely holiday!" covers off anyone who's taking time off and I otherwise tell people to have a wonderful New Year. I see no reason to draw anyone into my own cultural dominance. And I'm an atheist, but I grew up in the midst of daily Bible readings at public school, the school Nativity play, the Brown and Guide Nativity play, the newspaper changing its masthead to a Nativity symbols and the like. And I think it is good that we have tried to be more inclusive. I like that my kids' winter fair is in blue, silver and white and that Dreidel, Dreidel is among the songs and that we try to include other beliefs and traditions year-round. I believe our Canadian society is still pretty Christmas heavy and I think it's important that Canada try to be inclusive and respectful of others and that we protect Charter rights.
But that's me. Anytime someone says, "Happy Holidays!" (no matter how joyously and genuinely) to my mom, she gets a look on her face and says, "Merry Christmas!" and then mutters something about "They're not taking that away!
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:19 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
But that's me. Anytime someone says, "Happy Holidays!" (no matter how joyously and genuinely) to my mom, she gets a look on her face and says, "Merry Christmas!" and then mutters something about "They're not taking that away!
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:19 PM on December 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I work in one of the most multicultural cities in Canada, and my experience has been that New Canadians really embrace the secular parts of Christmas, while still holding on to their own cultural/religious traditions. A good friend, a devote Sikh, says that Christmas and Santa is very popular back in Pakistan.
I work in a Library and we celebrate almost every holiday out there (we aren't doing the solstice tomorrow but I am hoping it will be incorporated next year). We finished our Channukah display/storytime a few weeks back, right now we have Santa/non-Christian going and Kwanza is ready to go with a big New Year's Celebration (for the Eastern Europeans/Russians mostly) and orthodox XMas right after. It seems there is a reason to celebrate almost every week; isn't that awesome?
posted by saucysault at 9:46 PM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
I work in a Library and we celebrate almost every holiday out there (we aren't doing the solstice tomorrow but I am hoping it will be incorporated next year). We finished our Channukah display/storytime a few weeks back, right now we have Santa/non-Christian going and Kwanza is ready to go with a big New Year's Celebration (for the Eastern Europeans/Russians mostly) and orthodox XMas right after. It seems there is a reason to celebrate almost every week; isn't that awesome?
posted by saucysault at 9:46 PM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
@ricochet biscuit: "In one class she showed the students some slides of life back in Canada. A picture of kids tobogganing caused alarm and anxiety among her students, as they thought these kids were in great peril sliding down a huge rock surface on a thin little board."
Well, yeah. The peril is the point, no?
1 point for everyone you hit, 5 if you make the trees, 20 if you hit the brook.
My understanding was that these are international sliding/tobogganing standards. N'est-ce pas?
posted by Maugrim at 12:25 AM on December 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, yeah. The peril is the point, no?
1 point for everyone you hit, 5 if you make the trees, 20 if you hit the brook.
My understanding was that these are international sliding/tobogganing standards. N'est-ce pas?
posted by Maugrim at 12:25 AM on December 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's "Io Saturnalia," not "Happy Holidays."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:59 AM on December 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:59 AM on December 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
There is someone in my lab from Mauritius, and she is very lucky she is in Vancouver, and not a real part of Canada as she has been freezing all winter. However, we had our first real snowfall yesterday and she was enchanted. Someone from the lab across the hall and I went outside and had fun in the snow with her. Sadly, most of it wasn't good packing snow (except near the building; I guess the heat was melting it a bit), so we couldn't make a snowman, but we introduced her to snowballs (She has annoying good aim with them) and snow angels.
posted by Canageek at 12:20 PM on December 21, 2013
posted by Canageek at 12:20 PM on December 21, 2013
Yes, sorry, the Post is pretty bad (which makes it even more frustrating when you consider that it is the second best Toronto paper).
It's called the NATIONAL POST and it's no more of "Toronto" paper than is the G&M- which is to say that it's a de facto Toronto paper, you lucky person in the centre of the universe you, but it's not supposed to be one. You have two "Toronto" papers: The Star and the Sun, and the same two "national" papers as do the rest of us. But the fact that you blithely and unreflectively refer to the NP as a Toronto paper actually pisses me off, and not a little.
Also congrats to you for having a story that perpetuates the myth that Toronto is the paradigmatic multicultural city in Canada. We take in as many international immigrants as you do here in Calgary- in fact in the last two years it has been MORE per capita; only Vancouver has exceeded us and not by much- but you need those pats on the back for holding the torch while the rest of us hayseeds look on in perplexed envy. Because, you assume, we have nobody in turbans or hijabs here even though our damn mayor is Muslim.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:29 PM on December 21, 2013
It's called the NATIONAL POST and it's no more of "Toronto" paper than is the G&M- which is to say that it's a de facto Toronto paper, you lucky person in the centre of the universe you, but it's not supposed to be one. You have two "Toronto" papers: The Star and the Sun, and the same two "national" papers as do the rest of us. But the fact that you blithely and unreflectively refer to the NP as a Toronto paper actually pisses me off, and not a little.
Also congrats to you for having a story that perpetuates the myth that Toronto is the paradigmatic multicultural city in Canada. We take in as many international immigrants as you do here in Calgary- in fact in the last two years it has been MORE per capita; only Vancouver has exceeded us and not by much- but you need those pats on the back for holding the torch while the rest of us hayseeds look on in perplexed envy. Because, you assume, we have nobody in turbans or hijabs here even though our damn mayor is Muslim.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 2:29 PM on December 21, 2013
Wait, you're upset that people think the National Post is a Toronto paper?
Also, it's called the Notional Past for a reason.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:25 PM on December 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, it's called the Notional Past for a reason.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:25 PM on December 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also congrats to you for having a story that perpetuates the myth that Toronto is the paradigmatic multicultural city in Canada.
Yes. That is the kind of story one gets in a Toronto paper. (It's called the National Post because the Financial Post thought they'd sell more papers that way.)
posted by Sys Rq at 2:48 PM on December 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes. That is the kind of story one gets in a Toronto paper. (It's called the National Post because the Financial Post thought they'd sell more papers that way.)
posted by Sys Rq at 2:48 PM on December 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm an agnostic Canadian but,
Merry Christmas everyone.
Shoot me.
posted by raider at 10:51 AM on December 24, 2013
Merry Christmas everyone.
Shoot me.
posted by raider at 10:51 AM on December 24, 2013
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* this was 20 years ago, and I can't remember which country he was from
** not long after this he caught a horrible cold, which may have dampened his enthusiasm for winter somewhat
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:10 AM on December 20, 2013 [3 favorites]