Just randomly suggest nonsense and people go and film it
January 22, 2014 6:38 AM Subscribe
A Brit or a git? Hard to tell.
posted by horopter at 6:51 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by horopter at 6:51 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Came away not sure whether this is just "jaded rock superstar hates the past on lazy principle", or Noel genuinely taking the piss out of himself. As someone who basically grew up with these videos this is utterly fascinating to me. Thanks for posting!
Fav quote:
Fav quote:
If you need four guys to walk around in slow motion, we were the best at that.posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:51 AM on January 22, 2014 [15 favorites]
My favorite is the one that's mostly animated, but he keeps telling us it's not real. "Is that a man with legs made of sausages? THAT'S NOT REAL."
Thanks Noel, I was confused.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:56 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
Thanks Noel, I was confused.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:56 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
This is great.
Came away not sure whether this is just "jaded rock superstar hates the past on lazy principle", or Noel genuinely taking the piss out of himself.
He's not saying anything against himself or his music. He's just saying that music videos are a load of bollocks. Which of course they are. Oasis was four guys writing songs, playing instruments, and singing. They had nothing to do with the videos, but the videos are what fans remember when they think of the songs.
posted by pracowity at 7:02 AM on January 22, 2014
Came away not sure whether this is just "jaded rock superstar hates the past on lazy principle", or Noel genuinely taking the piss out of himself.
He's not saying anything against himself or his music. He's just saying that music videos are a load of bollocks. Which of course they are. Oasis was four guys writing songs, playing instruments, and singing. They had nothing to do with the videos, but the videos are what fans remember when they think of the songs.
posted by pracowity at 7:02 AM on January 22, 2014
Noel Gallagher seems to have backed himself into a corner of playing up to an identity which consists of being a (faintly post-ironic) boorish lout. I guess this comes from years of playing up to having his dick sucked by Loaded magazine et al for every tawdry bit of crassness he could come out with. Perhaps there's a chance he may be able to pull himself out of this dated and fake personality before it swallows him whole. Not gonna hold my breath though.
posted by iotic at 7:04 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by iotic at 7:04 AM on January 22, 2014
At first I was just going to make a sassy comment about the fact that he must just be having a visceral reaction to having to stare at Liam's face for a couple hours straight while filming this.
But he's so hilarious because he's right. Them were some shite videos, and the last few albums were mailed-in detritus created by a bunch of bored rich guys.
And since he's funny enough to admit it, that's why he's my favorite.
posted by Old Man McKay at 7:04 AM on January 22, 2014 [5 favorites]
But he's so hilarious because he's right. Them were some shite videos, and the last few albums were mailed-in detritus created by a bunch of bored rich guys.
And since he's funny enough to admit it, that's why he's my favorite.
posted by Old Man McKay at 7:04 AM on January 22, 2014 [5 favorites]
It's not just the videos. He seems to be ashamed of a lot of the music too.
Is he channeling Karl Pilkington or are all Mancunians like this?
posted by Flashman at 7:04 AM on January 22, 2014
Is he channeling Karl Pilkington or are all Mancunians like this?
posted by Flashman at 7:04 AM on January 22, 2014
Not a new observation. I give you Tapeheads, 1988.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:05 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:05 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Is he trying to get to the CD player?"
Some of those later Oasis tunes were alright. Liam's vocals were the only fork in the lager.
posted by JamesMytton at 7:06 AM on January 22, 2014
Some of those later Oasis tunes were alright. Liam's vocals were the only fork in the lager.
posted by JamesMytton at 7:06 AM on January 22, 2014
Good point, pracowity. Of course the videos are distinct from the songs. But he does hate on a couple of songs in there, too. I mean he calls "Roll With It" a "throwaway". That honestly made me cringe for a second, as if it was a personal insult. Then I realized how bizarre a thought that is. It's strange how the brain works.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:08 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:08 AM on January 22, 2014
In Japan, people pronounce the band name like "owahshiss".
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:10 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:10 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
There have been a lot of great music videos made over the years, but none of them were for Oasis songs.
posted by gwint at 7:13 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by gwint at 7:13 AM on January 22, 2014
See also: the OED on "oasis" in US English vs. British & World English
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:15 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:15 AM on January 22, 2014
Fucking bullocks
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:26 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:26 AM on January 22, 2014
ahhhhhhhhhfucking'el
posted by photoslob at 7:28 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 7:28 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
In 2005 I bought a $50 ticket to see Oasis in Cincinnati. Right before I pressed, "Complete Order," I thought, Wouldn't it be terrible if the Gallagher brothers, so famous for onstage antics, got in a fight onstage?
Well, during the opening chords to Wonderwall (not my favorite tune by these boys, but still nice to hear live) they started bickering onstage. Liam left in a huff, then came back for a second to yell some more at Noel.
After a good long minute or two, Noel stepped up to the mike and restarted the song. Liam showed up afterwards to complete the set, which was 10 songs total.
It was not worth $50.
posted by glaucon at 7:30 AM on January 22, 2014
Well, during the opening chords to Wonderwall (not my favorite tune by these boys, but still nice to hear live) they started bickering onstage. Liam left in a huff, then came back for a second to yell some more at Noel.
After a good long minute or two, Noel stepped up to the mike and restarted the song. Liam showed up afterwards to complete the set, which was 10 songs total.
It was not worth $50.
posted by glaucon at 7:30 AM on January 22, 2014
Now that Dexter is over, can we hire Hall to briefly pin this gent against the wall and yell "open your eyes and look at what you did!"?
posted by adipocere at 7:32 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by adipocere at 7:32 AM on January 22, 2014
This is the one juncture in my life where Noel Gallagher and I agree on something.
posted by timsteil at 7:37 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by timsteil at 7:37 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Just randomly suggest play nonsense and people go and film buy it" - What a shame this blowhard ended up often being spokesidiot for a period that included some great music. (Little if any of it by Oasis)
posted by merocet at 7:38 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by merocet at 7:38 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
My favorite is the one that's mostly animated, but he keeps telling us it's not real. "Is that a man with legs made of sausages? THAT'S NOT REAL."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:56 PM on January 22
Gallagher has a problem with things that are not real. He doesn't like fiction.
Both Gallaghers are the epitome of the loutish northern gobshite. Noel is fortunate indeed to have Liam for a brother because if he had anyone else the words "The smart one" would never have been used about him in his entire life.
posted by Decani at 7:48 AM on January 22, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:56 PM on January 22
Gallagher has a problem with things that are not real. He doesn't like fiction.
Both Gallaghers are the epitome of the loutish northern gobshite. Noel is fortunate indeed to have Liam for a brother because if he had anyone else the words "The smart one" would never have been used about him in his entire life.
posted by Decani at 7:48 AM on January 22, 2014 [11 favorites]
Man, when I saw this title I thought it was going to be about the "Hedgehog themed version of [Miley Cyrus'] 'Wrecking Ball'" that's going around today.
That is all.
posted by spitbull at 7:58 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
That is all.
posted by spitbull at 7:58 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
Fucking bullocks
The word is bollocks. A bullock is a bull what's had 'em cut off.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:07 AM on January 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
The word is bollocks. A bullock is a bull what's had 'em cut off.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:07 AM on January 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
He's not wrong. Some of those videos and songs are pretty bad and the man with the legs made of sausages isn't real.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:08 AM on January 22, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 8:08 AM on January 22, 2014 [6 favorites]
I don't quite get any of the Noel hate (annoyance, maybe, hate? nah). You really do have to take everything Noel says as being tongue in cheek. Whatever he goes on about this month for being "shite," he will assuredly have a different opinion in a few months time. It's all just for shits and giggles really, particularly his pronouncements about such and such being the worst/best band of all time.
But this is still a man who gave us:
Jack White ... "he looks like Zoro on doughnutsS"
His brother Liam ... "He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup"
Chris Martin ... "Chris Martin looks like a geography teacher. What's all that with writing messages about Free Trade? If he wants to write things down I'll give him a pen and a pad of paper."
Plus, the man's solo album was surprisingly strong.
posted by boubelium at 8:11 AM on January 22, 2014 [11 favorites]
But this is still a man who gave us:
Jack White ... "he looks like Zoro on doughnutsS"
His brother Liam ... "He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup"
Chris Martin ... "Chris Martin looks like a geography teacher. What's all that with writing messages about Free Trade? If he wants to write things down I'll give him a pen and a pad of paper."
Plus, the man's solo album was surprisingly strong.
posted by boubelium at 8:11 AM on January 22, 2014 [11 favorites]
Come on, this was fucking hilarious. Oh my God that unibrow. *Music stops* That wasn't an actual record playing and he's not a real clown.
posted by phaedon at 8:11 AM on January 22, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by phaedon at 8:11 AM on January 22, 2014 [8 favorites]
Jack White ... "he looks like Zoro on doughnutsS"
His brother Liam ... "He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup"
Chris Martin ... "Chris Martin looks like a geography teacher. What's all that with writing messages about Free Trade? If he wants to write things down I'll give him a pen and a pad of paper."
I am hearing and seeing Mr Creosote from Monty Python's Meaning of Life uttering these lines as his French waiter attempts to engage him in conversation on musical acts.
And then he explodes. Quite satisfying, really.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:13 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
His brother Liam ... "He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup"
Chris Martin ... "Chris Martin looks like a geography teacher. What's all that with writing messages about Free Trade? If he wants to write things down I'll give him a pen and a pad of paper."
I am hearing and seeing Mr Creosote from Monty Python's Meaning of Life uttering these lines as his French waiter attempts to engage him in conversation on musical acts.
And then he explodes. Quite satisfying, really.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:13 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you need four guys to walk in slow motion, then we're your guys.
posted by codacorolla at 8:17 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by codacorolla at 8:17 AM on January 22, 2014
I want a German or Dutch compound word meaning "I love this song but the video is too embarrassingly stupid to post". I would use that word at least weekly.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:22 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:22 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
THE CHEMICAL BROTHERS – “Setting Sun” This is a story about the twilight of innovation in British independent music. Oasis in Summer 1996 were impossibly big, big beyond almost all yardsticks of British rock bigness. They had the fanbase and the opportunity to take their audience anywhere the band cared to go – and the motive, too, with critics enthralled by their power but often sniffy about their range. With his hand on the tiller of British rock, with the chance to put anything he wanted at the top of the charts, Gallagher lent his star power to the Chemical Brothers, and made what amounts to a big beat remix of “Tomorrow Never Knows”. Stop the clocks, as Oasis later put it.
posted by Artw at 8:45 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:45 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
I grew up with MTV and this generation of music videos and I can't get Blind Melon's "No Rain" out of my head while watching this. The bumblebee girl is so fucking irritating and yet totally burned into my subconscious. I do not argue with it. I don't, for example, think Right Said Fred is stupid. I just start singing along. Today's music? That's an entirely different story.
I think a lot of this has to do with "older" Noel looking back at his youth and being like "what a mess." Something I can definitely relate to.
posted by phaedon at 8:46 AM on January 22, 2014
I think a lot of this has to do with "older" Noel looking back at his youth and being like "what a mess." Something I can definitely relate to.
posted by phaedon at 8:46 AM on January 22, 2014
I would watch the hell out of a show where Karl Pilkington and Noel Gallagher sit around and watch and discuss various random video clips of music videos, art films, Bollywood films, 1970s obscure American TV shows, soap operas form South America, and BBC/Granada period pieces from the early 1980s.
Sure there would be natural comparisons to Beavis and Butthead, but it could quickly evolve into something much more than that. I've never been a fan of reality television, but this I could get behind.
posted by chambers at 8:47 AM on January 22, 2014 [10 favorites]
Sure there would be natural comparisons to Beavis and Butthead, but it could quickly evolve into something much more than that. I've never been a fan of reality television, but this I could get behind.
posted by chambers at 8:47 AM on January 22, 2014 [10 favorites]
Now that Dexter is over, can we hire Hall to briefly pin this gent against the wall and yell "open your eyes and look at what you did!"?
Sure, but only after he's done the same to each member of the Dexter writing staff.
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:49 AM on January 22, 2014 [6 favorites]
Sure, but only after he's done the same to each member of the Dexter writing staff.
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:49 AM on January 22, 2014 [6 favorites]
I thought this was great and I don't think Noel is the spokesman for anything at all. He certainly doesn't want to be. Perhaps he's the default spokesman for not giving much of a fuck about anything, which is definitely something I can relate to.
'Setting Sun' is just pointless plagiarism though.
I haven't heard Noel do Setting Sun as a 'real song', but 'Tomorrow Never Knows' works really well arranged for solo piano. You can get a C drone going with the pedal and add everything with your right hand, including the 'seagull laughs' etc.
posted by colie at 8:51 AM on January 22, 2014
'Setting Sun' is just pointless plagiarism though.
I haven't heard Noel do Setting Sun as a 'real song', but 'Tomorrow Never Knows' works really well arranged for solo piano. You can get a C drone going with the pedal and add everything with your right hand, including the 'seagull laughs' etc.
posted by colie at 8:51 AM on January 22, 2014
"Setting Sun" is a fantastic song, but that has nothing to do with Noel Gallagher.
posted by koeselitz at 9:29 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 9:29 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you need four guys to walk around in slow motion, we were the best at that.
Everybody looks cool in slow motion. Seriously, if you're feeling bad about yourself or your body try looking at a video of yourself at 1/4 speed. I remember being an awkward teen and watching video of myself playing softball, transfixed because I was depicted as a creature of effortless grace and iron determination.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:30 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
Everybody looks cool in slow motion. Seriously, if you're feeling bad about yourself or your body try looking at a video of yourself at 1/4 speed. I remember being an awkward teen and watching video of myself playing softball, transfixed because I was depicted as a creature of effortless grace and iron determination.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:30 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
In Japan, people pronounce the band name like "owahshiss".
In Japan is where I learned that as recently as 8 years ago, drunk English people have Oasis singalongs, and not even in the Karaoke booth.
'Setting Sun' is just pointless plagiarism though.
I don't think it is. I think "Let Forever Be" off the next album was the one that sounded like the Tomorrow Never Knows. Setting Sun doesn't bear much resemblance to that song.
posted by Hoopo at 9:34 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
In Japan is where I learned that as recently as 8 years ago, drunk English people have Oasis singalongs, and not even in the Karaoke booth.
'Setting Sun' is just pointless plagiarism though.
I don't think it is. I think "Let Forever Be" off the next album was the one that sounded like the Tomorrow Never Knows. Setting Sun doesn't bear much resemblance to that song.
posted by Hoopo at 9:34 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
Oh man, does anyone remember Karl's movie pitch? "Clive Warren". That whole segment is gold.
posted by neuromodulator at 9:53 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by neuromodulator at 9:53 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Nobody could seriously suggest that Setting Sun is not almost identical to Tomorrow Never Knows? Did I misread that?
posted by colie at 9:56 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by colie at 9:56 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's possible I'm confusing it with something else. One of the Gallagher/Chemical Brothers songs did sound like Tomorrow Never Knows. I'm just remembering Setting Sun being very much a dancey techno song with a completely different melody but similar drums to Tomorrow Never Knows.
posted by Hoopo at 10:00 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by Hoopo at 10:00 AM on January 22, 2014
I recall a time and a context when it was important to choose Blur or Oasis. I chose Blur and I have been and remain very satisfied in that choice.
posted by erlking at 10:05 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by erlking at 10:05 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Sausage-legged man is not real" is exactly what they want you to think.
posted by Flunkie at 10:06 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by Flunkie at 10:06 AM on January 22, 2014
Setting Sun is the ripoff of Tomorrow Never Knows. Let Forever Be is a ripoff of Setting Sun.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:14 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 10:14 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
colie: “Nobody could seriously suggest that Setting Sun is not almost identical to Tomorrow Never Knows? Did I misread that?”
It would be crazy to say that "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Setting Sun" are "almost identical." They both have two very striking similarities: drum lines that do a sort of foxtrot-shuffle, and a drone in the background. Because of those two similarities, they have a similar sound, but "almost identical" is a clear exaggeration. The melodies are completely different, for one thing, and even the drum lines and the drones are themselves quite different from each other.
The Chemical Brothers have said that "Tomorrow Never Knows" is an important song to them, and that "Setting Sun" is a tribute and restatement of its principles. None of that changes the fact that "Setting Sun" is a superior song that I would rather listen to. Plagiarism (if that is what this is) isn't pointless if it's loving and produces something better.
posted by koeselitz at 10:15 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
It would be crazy to say that "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Setting Sun" are "almost identical." They both have two very striking similarities: drum lines that do a sort of foxtrot-shuffle, and a drone in the background. Because of those two similarities, they have a similar sound, but "almost identical" is a clear exaggeration. The melodies are completely different, for one thing, and even the drum lines and the drones are themselves quite different from each other.
The Chemical Brothers have said that "Tomorrow Never Knows" is an important song to them, and that "Setting Sun" is a tribute and restatement of its principles. None of that changes the fact that "Setting Sun" is a superior song that I would rather listen to. Plagiarism (if that is what this is) isn't pointless if it's loving and produces something better.
posted by koeselitz at 10:15 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: There's a lot of Adidas going on in here.
posted by bicyclefish at 10:20 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by bicyclefish at 10:20 AM on January 22, 2014
(In any case, the Chemical Brothers probably gave the definitive statement on this controversy in the next song on the album.)
posted by koeselitz at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by koeselitz at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2014
I chose Blur and I have been and remain very satisfied in that choice.
HINDSIGHT IS 20/20 OK?
I didn't particularly care for a bunch of Blur's output at the time, they had some good stuff but a bunch of it I could still take or leave. But man have I grown to appreciate Damon Albarn since then. He has been just fantastic with the Gorillaz. How on earth do you get Mos Def, Bobby Womack, Snoop, Lou Reed, Mick Jones and Paul Simonon, Mark E Smith, De La Soul, and Little Dragon together on a single album and have it work? You leave it to Damon Albarn, that's how.
posted by Hoopo at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
HINDSIGHT IS 20/20 OK?
I didn't particularly care for a bunch of Blur's output at the time, they had some good stuff but a bunch of it I could still take or leave. But man have I grown to appreciate Damon Albarn since then. He has been just fantastic with the Gorillaz. How on earth do you get Mos Def, Bobby Womack, Snoop, Lou Reed, Mick Jones and Paul Simonon, Mark E Smith, De La Soul, and Little Dragon together on a single album and have it work? You leave it to Damon Albarn, that's how.
posted by Hoopo at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
I recall a time and a context when it was important to choose Blur or Oasis. I chose Blur and I have been and remain very satisfied in that choice.
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
posted by Artw at 10:32 AM on January 22, 2014 [23 favorites]
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
posted by Artw at 10:32 AM on January 22, 2014 [23 favorites]
Plagiarism (if that is what this is) isn't pointless if it's loving and produces something better.
And certainly not pointless if you make serious cash out of it...
I disagree about the merits of Setting Sun and can't really see how the musicians involved could make the 'definitive statement' about it, so here's my opinion based on a quick listen so it might have inaccuracies:
The Beatles did actually go to court over Setting Sun, but concentrated on a possible issue of sampling. There are no samples from Tomorrow Never Knows in the song and no direct phrases, so they lost... it's like Blurred Lines and Got to Give it Up.
However I think Lennon-McCartney should definitely have a writing credit on the song (as Oasis have had to give others on a couple of their songs).
- Melody: this is the one where they differ most, even though the shape and contour of the melody is very similar. They in fact sound like SS turns TNK's arc-shaped melody upside down. SS brings in the highly coloured flat-VII note very early (as if they're a bit over excited about it), but TNK holds back the flat VII from the melody until emphasising it on 'it is not DIE-ing'. The flow of wide spaces in the melody rather than small steps is clear in both songs. But fair enough, the court couldn't get them on that.
- Harmony: both songs are a shuttle between I and flat-VII throughout. Identical in intent and execution (different in the instrumentation etc).
- Phrase rhythm: The first line of each is identical in terms of pacing and phrases. TNK is 4+2+2 in terms of bars in the verse; SS is 4+4+2+2+2+2 for one long verse.
- Drums: Almost identical, and since they are such a core part of both song's aural palette this is significant beyond just the sequence of the beats.
- Textural effects, drone, key of C, mixolydian mode - it all adds up to something that's not quite plagiarism, but as close as you can get without being sued.
The fact that a) the musicians involved say they really like the original song and b) some listeners prefer SS doesn't really change that. Add Noel's tuneless voice (some of which is badly out of tune) into the mix, and the fact that you can do this in your bedroom rather than have to pull apart a 1960s studio brick by brick to get these sounds, and you have a record that does not stand up to the one made half a century ago...
Still love Noel though.
posted by colie at 10:40 AM on January 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
And certainly not pointless if you make serious cash out of it...
I disagree about the merits of Setting Sun and can't really see how the musicians involved could make the 'definitive statement' about it, so here's my opinion based on a quick listen so it might have inaccuracies:
The Beatles did actually go to court over Setting Sun, but concentrated on a possible issue of sampling. There are no samples from Tomorrow Never Knows in the song and no direct phrases, so they lost... it's like Blurred Lines and Got to Give it Up.
However I think Lennon-McCartney should definitely have a writing credit on the song (as Oasis have had to give others on a couple of their songs).
- Melody: this is the one where they differ most, even though the shape and contour of the melody is very similar. They in fact sound like SS turns TNK's arc-shaped melody upside down. SS brings in the highly coloured flat-VII note very early (as if they're a bit over excited about it), but TNK holds back the flat VII from the melody until emphasising it on 'it is not DIE-ing'. The flow of wide spaces in the melody rather than small steps is clear in both songs. But fair enough, the court couldn't get them on that.
- Harmony: both songs are a shuttle between I and flat-VII throughout. Identical in intent and execution (different in the instrumentation etc).
- Phrase rhythm: The first line of each is identical in terms of pacing and phrases. TNK is 4+2+2 in terms of bars in the verse; SS is 4+4+2+2+2+2 for one long verse.
- Drums: Almost identical, and since they are such a core part of both song's aural palette this is significant beyond just the sequence of the beats.
- Textural effects, drone, key of C, mixolydian mode - it all adds up to something that's not quite plagiarism, but as close as you can get without being sued.
The fact that a) the musicians involved say they really like the original song and b) some listeners prefer SS doesn't really change that. Add Noel's tuneless voice (some of which is badly out of tune) into the mix, and the fact that you can do this in your bedroom rather than have to pull apart a 1960s studio brick by brick to get these sounds, and you have a record that does not stand up to the one made half a century ago...
Still love Noel though.
posted by colie at 10:40 AM on January 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
I recall a time and a context when it was important to choose Blur or Oasis. I chose Blur and I have been and remain very satisfied in that choice.
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
I think you meanSuede, the Verve, Supergrass, Elastica?
I believe this is how this conversation goes
posted by boubelium at 10:43 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
I think you mean
I believe this is how this conversation goes
posted by boubelium at 10:43 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Elastica?
Speaking of copyright lawsuits!
posted by Sys Rq at 10:46 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Speaking of copyright lawsuits!
posted by Sys Rq at 10:46 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Blur vs Oasis was and is the stupidest marketing ploy that somehow worked during those heady Britpop days. As if it were inconceivable that someone's musical taste could encompass both bands. Perhaps the stupidest part of it all was that the great singles showdown was between Oasis' forgettable, mediocre Roll With It and Blur's monster Parklife.
Though Blur's music has aged better and appeals to a sort of hipster music nerd (guilty!), you can't discount how fun Oasis is. What could be more fun than the whole bar singing Don't Look Back in Anger at Karoke?
Also, Oasis had some of the worst production ever on those early records. Be Here Now is the hallmark of that bloated yet compressed CD sound that became dominant in the 90's and beyond.
posted by boubelium at 10:52 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Though Blur's music has aged better and appeals to a sort of hipster music nerd (guilty!), you can't discount how fun Oasis is. What could be more fun than the whole bar singing Don't Look Back in Anger at Karoke?
Also, Oasis had some of the worst production ever on those early records. Be Here Now is the hallmark of that bloated yet compressed CD sound that became dominant in the 90's and beyond.
posted by boubelium at 10:52 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
It is quite touching when Noel reflects that Roll With It is basically a crap song but 'really good to jump up and down drunk to.' Damon Albarn could do with some of that humility about his own output, which is now pompous enough to include rock operas.
posted by colie at 10:54 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by colie at 10:54 AM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
@boubelium - IIRC it was Roll With It vs Country House and II(again)RC Blur's record company did the thing that was common at the time, which was to release the single as two distinct separate CD releases meaning the vast majority of Blur fans bought both versions effectively boosting sales.
I think Roll With It had at least one decent b-side, maybe two. But *that* i cannot recall.
posted by lawrencium at 11:14 AM on January 22, 2014
I think Roll With It had at least one decent b-side, maybe two. But *that* i cannot recall.
posted by lawrencium at 11:14 AM on January 22, 2014
Metafilter: I can't begin to tell you how pissed I was
Whilst I haven't listened to anything Oasis have done since Morning Glory, I could happily sit and listen to Noel for hours. He's fucking hilarious.
posted by jontyjago at 11:19 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
Whilst I haven't listened to anything Oasis have done since Morning Glory, I could happily sit and listen to Noel for hours. He's fucking hilarious.
posted by jontyjago at 11:19 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
I recall a time and a context when it was important to choose Blur or Oasis. I chose Blur and I have been and remain very satisfied in that choice.
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
If any band from the mid-nineties can be said to have won it's probably Radiohead. Pulp is a much better answer, though.
Did Oasis play at the Arsenal stadium a few years ago? I have a memory of walking down the Holloway Road towards Highbury and Islington, and it was really scary, like a convention of school bullies had poured drunk into the street.
Oasis epitomise all the things I really don't miss about the 1990s.
posted by Grangousier at 11:41 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
If any band from the mid-nineties can be said to have won it's probably Radiohead. Pulp is a much better answer, though.
Did Oasis play at the Arsenal stadium a few years ago? I have a memory of walking down the Holloway Road towards Highbury and Islington, and it was really scary, like a convention of school bullies had poured drunk into the street.
Oasis epitomise all the things I really don't miss about the 1990s.
posted by Grangousier at 11:41 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
The correct answer turned out to have been Pulp.
Hey! You cribbed that line from this Pitchfork list. I know because I was going to write the same thing.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 11:46 AM on January 22, 2014
Hey! You cribbed that line from this Pitchfork list. I know because I was going to write the same thing.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 11:46 AM on January 22, 2014
Elastica?
Speaking of copyright lawsuits!
Yeah they were very blatant, IMO much worse than anything Chemical Brothers are guilty of. There were parts of their songs that were basically Wire covers.
posted by Hoopo at 11:51 AM on January 22, 2014
Speaking of copyright lawsuits!
Yeah they were very blatant, IMO much worse than anything Chemical Brothers are guilty of. There were parts of their songs that were basically Wire covers.
posted by Hoopo at 11:51 AM on January 22, 2014
Am I a bad person that I like Connection better than Three Girl Rhumba?
posted by Artw at 11:56 AM on January 22, 2014
posted by Artw at 11:56 AM on January 22, 2014
You cribbed that line from this Pitchfork list.
I am old school. If I am going to present anyone's music opinions as my own they're going to be from the NME and at least a decade old. :-)
posted by Artw at 11:58 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
I am old school. If I am going to present anyone's music opinions as my own they're going to be from the NME and at least a decade old. :-)
posted by Artw at 11:58 AM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
I like how he's apparently never seen any of the videos, and doesn't like a lot of the music. That makes me feel like it's time to adjust my curmudgeon hat and say:
The 90's were a time to make one truly believe in musical de-evolution. Just as Phish seemed to be the Dead for those too young to have tripped a bunch of balls in stadium parking lots, the Black Crowes imitated the Faces and Allman Brothers for people too young to remember Quaaludes, and Lenny Kravitz served as some sort of generic rock-star-surrogate for people who had apparently never heard anything at all (and much like Tom Waits, who I actually like, could accurately be described as a more-palatable Captain Beefheart alternative for much of his career) Oasis seemed to have arrived fully-formed as a dumbed-down version of the Beatles for people apparently too drunk to remember what the Beatles actually sounded like.
I've tried to listen to them, I really have, and I can't think what, except for a strong case of cultural amnesia (well, and apparently copious amounts of booze and coke) ever made them famous to begin with. Even the famously overexcitable British music press doesn't seem to explain the adulation heaped on these - what do you call them, louts? - for their grade-school-talent-show-level imitations of the shiny bits of 1966.
If Noel seems to partially agree with me, well, that obviously doesn't make me more right, but it does make me hitch my pants up even further with a satisfied "harrumph."
posted by hap_hazard at 12:07 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
The 90's were a time to make one truly believe in musical de-evolution. Just as Phish seemed to be the Dead for those too young to have tripped a bunch of balls in stadium parking lots, the Black Crowes imitated the Faces and Allman Brothers for people too young to remember Quaaludes, and Lenny Kravitz served as some sort of generic rock-star-surrogate for people who had apparently never heard anything at all (and much like Tom Waits, who I actually like, could accurately be described as a more-palatable Captain Beefheart alternative for much of his career) Oasis seemed to have arrived fully-formed as a dumbed-down version of the Beatles for people apparently too drunk to remember what the Beatles actually sounded like.
I've tried to listen to them, I really have, and I can't think what, except for a strong case of cultural amnesia (well, and apparently copious amounts of booze and coke) ever made them famous to begin with. Even the famously overexcitable British music press doesn't seem to explain the adulation heaped on these - what do you call them, louts? - for their grade-school-talent-show-level imitations of the shiny bits of 1966.
If Noel seems to partially agree with me, well, that obviously doesn't make me more right, but it does make me hitch my pants up even further with a satisfied "harrumph."
posted by hap_hazard at 12:07 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
The correct answer turned out to have been Shed Seven.
posted by Flashman at 12:08 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 12:08 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
The only* Oasis song I still dig is Columbia: guitars upon guitars upon guitars, and one of those songs that only sounds good if you play it fucking loud.
* (well, okay, and Don't Look Back In Anger if I've had a few)
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:15 PM on January 22, 2014
* (well, okay, and Don't Look Back In Anger if I've had a few)
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:15 PM on January 22, 2014
Shed Seven is never the answer, but you could have gotten partial credit for either The Bluetones or The Charlatans
posted by TwoWordReview at 12:25 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoWordReview at 12:25 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
colie: “However I think Lennon-McCartney should definitely have a writing credit on the song (as Oasis have had to give others on a couple of their songs).”
Songwriting credit? That's a bit ludicrous, isn't it? The similarities are in the drums, the tamboura, and the flanged droning. Go get them to give Ringo Starr, George Harrison, and George Martin a shared songwriting credit on "Tomorrow Never Knows," and then maybe we can talk.
“The fact that a) the musicians involved say they really like the original song and b) some listeners prefer SS doesn't really change that. Add Noel's tuneless voice (some of which is badly out of tune) into the mix, and the fact that you can do this in your bedroom rather than have to pull apart a 1960s studio brick by brick to get these sounds, and you have a record that does not stand up to the one made half a century ago...”
Well, we'll just have to disagree there, I guess. They're just utterly different to me, not least because of the context. "Setting Sun" is in the context of 90s Big Beat dance music that's a bunch of random, crazy influences mashed together. "Plagiarism" was never something the Chemical Brothers shied from; for shit's sake, they started their career by stealing the name for their group and ended up having to give it back after the fact. The whole point of Big Beat was to wear influences on the sleeve, and to rip off anything and everything in a giddy mix of bravura and psychedelic intensity. Dig Your Own Hole was its pinnacle. Yeah, it's got its time and place, but it can be quite good at the right moment.
Revolver, on the other hand, is a rock songwriting album with a fair amount of experimentation. The Beatles themselves were not above ripping other people off and wearing their influences on their sleeves at various points. Personally I tend to prefer Rubber Soul as a better-written and generally tighter album, although most people seem to disagree with me.
“Still love Noel though.”
Well, that makes one of us.
Maybe you'd prefer Oasis' rock demo of "Setting Sun," which has Liam on vox instead. The Chemical Brothers' live b-side version is more listenable, though, I think, despite the fact that it's uber-acidy. Neither of those sound anything like the Beatles, at least.
posted by koeselitz at 12:26 PM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
Songwriting credit? That's a bit ludicrous, isn't it? The similarities are in the drums, the tamboura, and the flanged droning. Go get them to give Ringo Starr, George Harrison, and George Martin a shared songwriting credit on "Tomorrow Never Knows," and then maybe we can talk.
“The fact that a) the musicians involved say they really like the original song and b) some listeners prefer SS doesn't really change that. Add Noel's tuneless voice (some of which is badly out of tune) into the mix, and the fact that you can do this in your bedroom rather than have to pull apart a 1960s studio brick by brick to get these sounds, and you have a record that does not stand up to the one made half a century ago...”
Well, we'll just have to disagree there, I guess. They're just utterly different to me, not least because of the context. "Setting Sun" is in the context of 90s Big Beat dance music that's a bunch of random, crazy influences mashed together. "Plagiarism" was never something the Chemical Brothers shied from; for shit's sake, they started their career by stealing the name for their group and ended up having to give it back after the fact. The whole point of Big Beat was to wear influences on the sleeve, and to rip off anything and everything in a giddy mix of bravura and psychedelic intensity. Dig Your Own Hole was its pinnacle. Yeah, it's got its time and place, but it can be quite good at the right moment.
Revolver, on the other hand, is a rock songwriting album with a fair amount of experimentation. The Beatles themselves were not above ripping other people off and wearing their influences on their sleeves at various points. Personally I tend to prefer Rubber Soul as a better-written and generally tighter album, although most people seem to disagree with me.
“Still love Noel though.”
Well, that makes one of us.
Maybe you'd prefer Oasis' rock demo of "Setting Sun," which has Liam on vox instead. The Chemical Brothers' live b-side version is more listenable, though, I think, despite the fact that it's uber-acidy. Neither of those sound anything like the Beatles, at least.
posted by koeselitz at 12:26 PM on January 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
I can't think what, except for a strong case of cultural amnesia (well, and apparently copious amounts of booze and coke) ever made them famous to begin with
They somehow fit perfectly at the time and had tremendous egos, that's pretty much what it was. Their songs were largely inoffensive Beatles-influenced (with parts outright stolen in some cases) pub rock that people could sing along to, and they acted the mercurial self-destructive rock star part perfectly, breaking up and getting back together and cancelling shows etc. They also talked a big game, and people seem to just eat that up even now. They put out a release and said "this is the best shit since the Beatles and we are the best musicians since the Beatles" and people said "wow, did you hear what those guys said? It's true tho, best shit ever."
They're just utterly different to me, not least because of the context. "Setting Sun" is in the context of 90s Big Beat dance music that's a bunch of random, crazy influences mashed together.
Me too. I just got home an listened to the 2 songs I mentioned upthread; I stand by my assessment. I don't have the technical music knowledge of colie but the "feel" is just totally different to me for Setting Sun and Tomorrow Never Knows. It's obviously influenced by Tomorrow Never Knows, particularly the rhythm, but plagiarism seems a bit overstated. The second one I mentioned, "Let Forever Be", seems to be not only influenced by Tomorrow Never Knows, but "feels" the same to me. I still prefer that song to Setting Sun, but also prefer Tomorrow Never Knows to both FWIW.
posted by Hoopo at 12:39 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
They somehow fit perfectly at the time and had tremendous egos, that's pretty much what it was. Their songs were largely inoffensive Beatles-influenced (with parts outright stolen in some cases) pub rock that people could sing along to, and they acted the mercurial self-destructive rock star part perfectly, breaking up and getting back together and cancelling shows etc. They also talked a big game, and people seem to just eat that up even now. They put out a release and said "this is the best shit since the Beatles and we are the best musicians since the Beatles" and people said "wow, did you hear what those guys said? It's true tho, best shit ever."
They're just utterly different to me, not least because of the context. "Setting Sun" is in the context of 90s Big Beat dance music that's a bunch of random, crazy influences mashed together.
Me too. I just got home an listened to the 2 songs I mentioned upthread; I stand by my assessment. I don't have the technical music knowledge of colie but the "feel" is just totally different to me for Setting Sun and Tomorrow Never Knows. It's obviously influenced by Tomorrow Never Knows, particularly the rhythm, but plagiarism seems a bit overstated. The second one I mentioned, "Let Forever Be", seems to be not only influenced by Tomorrow Never Knows, but "feels" the same to me. I still prefer that song to Setting Sun, but also prefer Tomorrow Never Knows to both FWIW.
posted by Hoopo at 12:39 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
The correct answer is still Billy Childish and the Fuck Yous.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:46 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:46 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
Well the drums are Paul's invention, not Ringo's, and George Martin was not any kind of songwriter judging by his solo compositions... the drone and Paul's drums were all in place from Ticket to Ride 18 months earlier.
The similarities are in the drums, the tamboura, and the flanged droning.
But also you don't need technical knowledge to hear that the first line is the same in terms of its phrasing and pacing. Hear how it ends on the first beat of the third bar (the word 'stream' in TNK) and invites the ear to listen to the drum pattern in the gap that follows. The harmonic material is very similar but since both songs only use two chords you can't really get that through the courts either. Again very much like Blurred Lines in that there is little in the way of classical-style chord changes, but the 'feel' or sound gesture of the record is of ultimate importance.
Anyway I think it's not really comparing like with like. In the 60s it was a radical act and a difficult thing to achieve to put in 'musique concrete' tape loops in a pop song (Paul mixed them in live, having made them himself at home after listening to Stockhausen etc), whereas today it's just 'meh, sample, beats.'
The Beatles themselves were not above ripping other people off
Sure... 'Come Together' springs to mind because it had them successfully sued by Chuck Berry over the plagiarism of just its first line!
'I saw her standing there' is very, very similar to 'When the Saints go Marching in' but nobody holds a copyright on the old gospel tune. 'There's a Place' is a rewrite of 'I want a guy' by the Marvelettes. 'You can't do that' is basically 'Hitch Hike' by Marvin Gaye. 'She Loves You' is based on 'Forget Him' by Bobby Rydell. Anybody got more?
But you know, it's how you use it.
posted by colie at 1:04 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
The similarities are in the drums, the tamboura, and the flanged droning.
But also you don't need technical knowledge to hear that the first line is the same in terms of its phrasing and pacing. Hear how it ends on the first beat of the third bar (the word 'stream' in TNK) and invites the ear to listen to the drum pattern in the gap that follows. The harmonic material is very similar but since both songs only use two chords you can't really get that through the courts either. Again very much like Blurred Lines in that there is little in the way of classical-style chord changes, but the 'feel' or sound gesture of the record is of ultimate importance.
Anyway I think it's not really comparing like with like. In the 60s it was a radical act and a difficult thing to achieve to put in 'musique concrete' tape loops in a pop song (Paul mixed them in live, having made them himself at home after listening to Stockhausen etc), whereas today it's just 'meh, sample, beats.'
The Beatles themselves were not above ripping other people off
Sure... 'Come Together' springs to mind because it had them successfully sued by Chuck Berry over the plagiarism of just its first line!
'I saw her standing there' is very, very similar to 'When the Saints go Marching in' but nobody holds a copyright on the old gospel tune. 'There's a Place' is a rewrite of 'I want a guy' by the Marvelettes. 'You can't do that' is basically 'Hitch Hike' by Marvin Gaye. 'She Loves You' is based on 'Forget Him' by Bobby Rydell. Anybody got more?
But you know, it's how you use it.
posted by colie at 1:04 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
I wish I hadn't watched this; I was quite content having an irrational level of hatred of all things Oasis, and now I have to question whether that's still absolutely necessary.
posted by the bricabrac man at 1:25 PM on January 22, 2014
posted by the bricabrac man at 1:25 PM on January 22, 2014
I can't think what ever made Oasis famous to begin with.
A perfect fit between the absurdly exaggerated, self-mythologising (but genuine) character of a singer/band and their songs, which is then painted in the broadest strokes possible with no apologies, is not all that easy to come by.
Think of Rod Stewart singing the first lines of Maggie May for example - it's the same as Liam doing 'Cigarettes and Alcohol'. There is simply no gap between the text and the voice. Blur were the complete opposite - they didn't believe in anything - which is why it made such a compelling showdown.
posted by colie at 2:04 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
A perfect fit between the absurdly exaggerated, self-mythologising (but genuine) character of a singer/band and their songs, which is then painted in the broadest strokes possible with no apologies, is not all that easy to come by.
Think of Rod Stewart singing the first lines of Maggie May for example - it's the same as Liam doing 'Cigarettes and Alcohol'. There is simply no gap between the text and the voice. Blur were the complete opposite - they didn't believe in anything - which is why it made such a compelling showdown.
posted by colie at 2:04 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
See also: the OED on "oasis" in US English vs. British & World English
"Oxford Dictionaries" is not the OED.
posted by grouse at 2:23 PM on January 22, 2014
"Oxford Dictionaries" is not the OED.
posted by grouse at 2:23 PM on January 22, 2014
Artw, yes.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:29 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 2:29 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Oxford Dictionaries" is not the OED.
Would you say Oxford Dictionaries seems to have arrived fully-formed as a dumbed-down version of the OED for people apparently too drunk to remember what the OED actually sounded like?
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:45 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
Would you say Oxford Dictionaries seems to have arrived fully-formed as a dumbed-down version of the OED for people apparently too drunk to remember what the OED actually sounded like?
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:45 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
I would say that confusion between the Oxford Dictionaries of English and the Oxford English Dictionary is almost wholly the fault of Oxford University Press who produces them all.
posted by grouse at 2:50 PM on January 22, 2014
posted by grouse at 2:50 PM on January 22, 2014
Did Oasis play at the Arsenal stadium a few years ago? I have a memory of walking down the Holloway Road towards Highbury and Islington, and it was really scary, like a convention of school bullies had poured drunk into the street.
I believe that was the Stone Roses. (the band which owns by far the largest gap between critical and popular acclaim, and my utter incomprehension of how anyone could possibly give a fig about such dishwater dull dreck.) I was pretty gobsmacked by how awful those fans were, too.
posted by ominous_paws at 3:02 PM on January 22, 2014
I believe that was the Stone Roses. (the band which owns by far the largest gap between critical and popular acclaim, and my utter incomprehension of how anyone could possibly give a fig about such dishwater dull dreck.) I was pretty gobsmacked by how awful those fans were, too.
posted by ominous_paws at 3:02 PM on January 22, 2014
The Stone Roses played Finsbury Park twice last year, you are probably thinking of them. While I love them enough that I was at both gigs, I have to say I agree with ominous_paws about the terrible fans. Saw fights, guy throw his pint at someone who bumped into him (hitting bystanders instead), idiots singing sectarian football songs, etc etc. Though there were a lot of great fans having the time of their lives, singing along to every word and hugging strangers.
(And gap between critical and popular acclaim? Not sure about that - look at the reaction to their debut)
posted by Pink Frost at 4:54 PM on January 22, 2014
(And gap between critical and popular acclaim? Not sure about that - look at the reaction to their debut)
posted by Pink Frost at 4:54 PM on January 22, 2014
Let's all just take a moment to mock Ocean Colour Scene.
posted by Artw at 7:22 PM on January 22, 2014
posted by Artw at 7:22 PM on January 22, 2014
Hey if there's a better song than 'The Day We Caught the Train' to bring you back to the summer of 1996 as a teenager in the UK and Ireland, I'd like to hear it!
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:33 PM on January 22, 2014
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:33 PM on January 22, 2014
No really, I'd love to hear it now that I'm on a nostalgia trip!
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:36 PM on January 22, 2014
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:36 PM on January 22, 2014
Colie, 1997 techno tech might not have been tape loops, but it sure as hell wasn't ableton live...hardware sampling, fx, synths and a midi sequencer was a fiddly, fiddly business.
My vote for Unappreciated Brit Band Of The 90s are Mansun. Attack
Of The Grey Lantern still holds up, though I never cared for their second album much.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:29 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
My vote for Unappreciated Brit Band Of The 90s are Mansun. Attack
Of The Grey Lantern still holds up, though I never cared for their second album much.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:29 PM on January 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
Jon Mitchell: “Colie, 1997 techno tech might not have been tape loops, but it sure as hell wasn't ableton live...hardware sampling, fx, synths and a midi sequencer was a fiddly, fiddly business.”
Yeah, this bears repeating. It was very difficult, not at all a simple process, and not many people knew how. There was a whole scene dedicated to figuring out that art and mastering it. The Beatles found that out when they tried to sue the Chemical Brothers; everybody always assumed "oh, it's easy, they're just sampling and fiddling with a computer and whatnot," but they were doing a whole lot to make it happen. Even now, this stuff isn't simple. And I say that as a guy who has spent some time trying to make recorded music.
posted by koeselitz at 9:33 PM on January 22, 2014
Yeah, this bears repeating. It was very difficult, not at all a simple process, and not many people knew how. There was a whole scene dedicated to figuring out that art and mastering it. The Beatles found that out when they tried to sue the Chemical Brothers; everybody always assumed "oh, it's easy, they're just sampling and fiddling with a computer and whatnot," but they were doing a whole lot to make it happen. Even now, this stuff isn't simple. And I say that as a guy who has spent some time trying to make recorded music.
posted by koeselitz at 9:33 PM on January 22, 2014
And Mansun is awesome.
posted by koeselitz at 9:36 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 9:36 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Even now, this stuff isn't simple.
Beyond that, it may be easy to be passable at the entry level with Ableton but it's still fucking hard to put a good song together. When you think of the hundreds of bedroom producers with soundcloud pages--would you say they are mostly good? Production technology like Ableton can't give you talent and it doesn't automatically make you someone that can make music that connects with people.
posted by Hoopo at 10:09 PM on January 22, 2014
Beyond that, it may be easy to be passable at the entry level with Ableton but it's still fucking hard to put a good song together. When you think of the hundreds of bedroom producers with soundcloud pages--would you say they are mostly good? Production technology like Ableton can't give you talent and it doesn't automatically make you someone that can make music that connects with people.
posted by Hoopo at 10:09 PM on January 22, 2014
Watching this made me realize that a friend of mine who is also a laconic Mancunian with a penchant for pithy expletives sounds extremely similar to Noel. There will be much piss-taking in this vein when next we meet.
koeselitz - neat links! Never knew Setting Sun started as a (drawn-out, needlessly repetitive) guitar-rock tune. Still a favourite tune of mine. Like the chirpy 303 on the live version there.
posted by faceattack at 10:59 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
koeselitz - neat links! Never knew Setting Sun started as a (drawn-out, needlessly repetitive) guitar-rock tune. Still a favourite tune of mine. Like the chirpy 303 on the live version there.
posted by faceattack at 10:59 PM on January 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
PS - sorry, I meant gap between critical/popular acclaim and my own feelings! They just leave me totally cold but I've found not a soul who agrees with me.
posted by ominous_paws at 11:14 PM on January 22, 2014
posted by ominous_paws at 11:14 PM on January 22, 2014
The Stone Roses brought quite tender, innocent sounding songs (like 'Sally Cinnamon' and 'She bangs the drums') to beery lads, and they sound very different to the Oasis drunk singalong anthems.
The fighting drunk men at Stone Roses concerts may be subconsciously feeling a need to reassert their masculinity, having found how much they enjoy these gentle diatonic songs. Even the later Stone Roses music sounds like they felt the need to rock out in an exaggerated (oafish) way to ease the memory of having been pretty and 'feminine' in their early material.
As a side note, I had many friends who saw the Stone Roses at Spike Island in 1990, and there were no fights then because absolutely everyone was out of their minds on E.
posted by colie at 12:05 AM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The fighting drunk men at Stone Roses concerts may be subconsciously feeling a need to reassert their masculinity, having found how much they enjoy these gentle diatonic songs. Even the later Stone Roses music sounds like they felt the need to rock out in an exaggerated (oafish) way to ease the memory of having been pretty and 'feminine' in their early material.
As a side note, I had many friends who saw the Stone Roses at Spike Island in 1990, and there were no fights then because absolutely everyone was out of their minds on E.
posted by colie at 12:05 AM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
PS - sorry, I meant gap between critical/popular acclaim and my own feelings!
Ah, fair play. You'd be in good company with my English music obsessive friends, most of whom don't like them. colie makes some very good points - for me at the time the Roses were more like a successor to the Smiths, making delicate pop music. It was only later that the proto-Oasis beer monsters picked up on them.
(As an aside, no-one's mentioned Super Furry Animals or Spiritualized as great mid-90s British bands yet, so I will...)
posted by Pink Frost at 12:43 AM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ah, fair play. You'd be in good company with my English music obsessive friends, most of whom don't like them. colie makes some very good points - for me at the time the Roses were more like a successor to the Smiths, making delicate pop music. It was only later that the proto-Oasis beer monsters picked up on them.
(As an aside, no-one's mentioned Super Furry Animals or Spiritualized as great mid-90s British bands yet, so I will...)
posted by Pink Frost at 12:43 AM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
You can rely on Noel Gallagher to be honest.
No.
posted by devious truculent and unreliable at 3:05 AM on January 23, 2014
No.
posted by devious truculent and unreliable at 3:05 AM on January 23, 2014
Metafilter: the flanged droning.
Also, put me down as someone who can listen to Noel talk about whatever the fuck for hours - he's got that classic working-class sharpness and wit. When he's done things with Russell Brand it's always been great.
posted by modernnomad at 5:47 AM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, put me down as someone who can listen to Noel talk about whatever the fuck for hours - he's got that classic working-class sharpness and wit. When he's done things with Russell Brand it's always been great.
posted by modernnomad at 5:47 AM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
So funny!
I love Noel - his wit makes every interview worth reading or listening to. He might have been a bit egotistical as Oasis rocketed to the top in 94, but by 95/96 he had become a lot more reflective and self-deprecatory, and that's how he's been ever since. He's a treasure.
Thanks for posting.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 2:23 PM on January 23, 2014
I love Noel - his wit makes every interview worth reading or listening to. He might have been a bit egotistical as Oasis rocketed to the top in 94, but by 95/96 he had become a lot more reflective and self-deprecatory, and that's how he's been ever since. He's a treasure.
Thanks for posting.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 2:23 PM on January 23, 2014
I was on a semester abroad exchange in York, England in 1995, right at the height of the "Cool Britannia" Britpop period.
Between Oasis and Blur, I picked both.
The NME told me that Pulp was the right choice in their year-end poll so I picked them too.
I loved Radiohead but even with "The Bends" they felt like they weren't even part of the Britpop movement in ways that were only going to become more clear in the years to come.
I checked out all the other bands mentioned in this thread and liked them to various degrees. But the one that hasn't been mentioned it that became a personal favourite and, to me, actually truly echoed The Beatles better than Oasis or any other Britpop band, was The Boo Radleys.
Melodic, beautiful harmonies, innovative musical ideas, intriguing lyrics - that's probably the most under-rated band of the period by a long shot.
posted by Jaybo at 2:49 PM on January 23, 2014
Between Oasis and Blur, I picked both.
The NME told me that Pulp was the right choice in their year-end poll so I picked them too.
I loved Radiohead but even with "The Bends" they felt like they weren't even part of the Britpop movement in ways that were only going to become more clear in the years to come.
I checked out all the other bands mentioned in this thread and liked them to various degrees. But the one that hasn't been mentioned it that became a personal favourite and, to me, actually truly echoed The Beatles better than Oasis or any other Britpop band, was The Boo Radleys.
Melodic, beautiful harmonies, innovative musical ideas, intriguing lyrics - that's probably the most under-rated band of the period by a long shot.
posted by Jaybo at 2:49 PM on January 23, 2014
The Kula Shaker fans are being quiet...
posted by Artw at 2:50 PM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:50 PM on January 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I loved Kula Shaker's debut album K. It very much fit in with all the other classic Britpop albums released during that period. Still have the CD, still enjoy it.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 3:54 PM on January 23, 2014
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 3:54 PM on January 23, 2014
Ocean Colour Scene and Kula Shaker are how the Arctic Monkeys will be thought of in 20 years.
posted by colie at 11:55 PM on January 23, 2014
posted by colie at 11:55 PM on January 23, 2014
Arctic Monkeys are more like Supergrass.
posted by Grangousier at 12:05 AM on January 24, 2014
posted by Grangousier at 12:05 AM on January 24, 2014
Supergrass was so fucking excellent. I hate that just because they sounded like they might be having fun, they don't get credit as a "serious band". I still bump "I Should Coco" more than any other britpop. Because it's much much better than all the other contemporaneous britpop albums THERE I SAID IT
posted by Hoopo at 10:50 AM on January 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Hoopo at 10:50 AM on January 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
'In It For The Money' is still a great album, they were pretty underrated back in the day!
posted by TwoWordReview at 12:58 PM on January 24, 2014
posted by TwoWordReview at 12:58 PM on January 24, 2014
Isn't it about time for some 17 year old with a popular Tumblr to "discover" this stuff, popularize it, and make all of us feel as old as we actually are? I can't wait until the first 20XX bands inspired by Oasis start cropping up.
posted by codacorolla at 3:18 PM on January 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 3:18 PM on January 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ask me about the also-rans of 90s trip-hop someday...
I downloaded a torrent of "Further Self-Evident Truths" compilations last year and I think there's at least one track from all of them. Oy. Why did I remember that series, and not in the "that was shit" way?
posted by Hoopo at 3:29 PM on January 24, 2014
I downloaded a torrent of "Further Self-Evident Truths" compilations last year and I think there's at least one track from all of them. Oy. Why did I remember that series, and not in the "that was shit" way?
posted by Hoopo at 3:29 PM on January 24, 2014
Perhaps the stupidest part of it all was that the great singles showdown was between Oasis' forgettable, mediocre Roll With It and Blur's monster Parklife.
Ah...it was Country House that outsold Roll With It, actually. Now, I quite like Country House, and I think it's a better song than Roll With It, but it appears to be so forgettable to you that you've actually forgotten it.
But yes, the whole affair was misguided on everyone's part, as I think pretty much everyone now admits.
posted by howfar at 2:38 PM on January 25, 2014
Ah...it was Country House that outsold Roll With It, actually. Now, I quite like Country House, and I think it's a better song than Roll With It, but it appears to be so forgettable to you that you've actually forgotten it.
But yes, the whole affair was misguided on everyone's part, as I think pretty much everyone now admits.
posted by howfar at 2:38 PM on January 25, 2014
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posted by acheekymonkey at 6:42 AM on January 22, 2014