SLC
January 14, 2002 9:02 PM Subscribe
Which U.S. city is rated fourth in the nation for being "mean" to the homeless, and is far above the national average in alcohol-related auto fatalities? Hint: It's located in a state known for its"friendly and hospitable people", and also for some of the most stringent liquor laws in the country.
The Trib article on the national survey on homelessness is one poor peice of journalism: broad generalization about homelessness in America followed by quotes from civic officials who have not seen the study or its criterion, followed by more broad generalizations.
Link to the study, and then we can talk. This article is useless.
As for Utah having the most stringent liquor laws in the country... well, maybe the most stringent state laws, but there are several dozen counties in the US with laws that would put ours to shame.
I am sad to see, though, that we're still up there for auto-related fatalities... although, I don't know how bad 1 person per 100,000 people higher than average is, when the city in question has a population of only 160,000. Also... I notice that NYC which has a much lower per capita car ownership scored best. Why... I wonder if the number of people who actually drive has any bearing on the pool of available drunks behind the wheel?
Give me a survey that compares cities with similar vehicular demographics...
Sorry... it's a little late, and a couple of poorly written articles about surveys that we don't actually have access to seems hardly worth the post.
posted by silusGROK at 10:11 PM on January 14, 2002
Link to the study, and then we can talk. This article is useless.
As for Utah having the most stringent liquor laws in the country... well, maybe the most stringent state laws, but there are several dozen counties in the US with laws that would put ours to shame.
I am sad to see, though, that we're still up there for auto-related fatalities... although, I don't know how bad 1 person per 100,000 people higher than average is, when the city in question has a population of only 160,000. Also... I notice that NYC which has a much lower per capita car ownership scored best. Why... I wonder if the number of people who actually drive has any bearing on the pool of available drunks behind the wheel?
Give me a survey that compares cities with similar vehicular demographics...
Sorry... it's a little late, and a couple of poorly written articles about surveys that we don't actually have access to seems hardly worth the post.
posted by silusGROK at 10:11 PM on January 14, 2002
Okay, Visi0n. Fair enough.
Here's Illegal to be Homeless: The Criminalization of Homelessness in the United States.
And I didn't say the most stringent, I said "some of the most stringent". I lived for a while in Irving, Texas which is in a dry county, so I'm quite happy to be able to go to the convenience store for a cold one now.
Interestingly, Dallas was #1 on the list for alcohol-related driving fatalities, at 10.23 per 100,000.
Unfortunately, the full report from the LSU study isn't available on the Web yet, apparently it's going to be in the February issue of Preventive Medicine magazine. I was only able to find it mentioned on the Dallas Morning News site (which requires registration) and here at the Jackson Clarion-Ledger, from Jackson, MS, which is also way above the national average.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:39 PM on January 14, 2002
Here's Illegal to be Homeless: The Criminalization of Homelessness in the United States.
And I didn't say the most stringent, I said "some of the most stringent". I lived for a while in Irving, Texas which is in a dry county, so I'm quite happy to be able to go to the convenience store for a cold one now.
Interestingly, Dallas was #1 on the list for alcohol-related driving fatalities, at 10.23 per 100,000.
Unfortunately, the full report from the LSU study isn't available on the Web yet, apparently it's going to be in the February issue of Preventive Medicine magazine. I was only able to find it mentioned on the Dallas Morning News site (which requires registration) and here at the Jackson Clarion-Ledger, from Jackson, MS, which is also way above the national average.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:39 PM on January 14, 2002
Also... I notice that NYC which has a much lower per capita car ownership scored best.
And possibly because the crawling slowness of Manhattan traffic skews the statistics for the whole city -- making for fender-benders over hi-speed DUI car-totalings. And there's always a cab available outside the bar, which helps. Of course, we make up for it in our high rates of pedestrians killed by autos -- though this source doesn't say whether that's linked to DUI.
posted by BT at 6:04 AM on January 15, 2002
And possibly because the crawling slowness of Manhattan traffic skews the statistics for the whole city -- making for fender-benders over hi-speed DUI car-totalings. And there's always a cab available outside the bar, which helps. Of course, we make up for it in our high rates of pedestrians killed by autos -- though this source doesn't say whether that's linked to DUI.
posted by BT at 6:04 AM on January 15, 2002
Back in 1979, the first drive-thru beer market I ever saw was in one of the few "wet" sections of Dallas County. (I lived in Richardson, which was "dry.") Back then, I also remember that open-container laws made it legal to drink a beer while you drove. Has any of this changed?
posted by alumshubby at 6:07 AM on January 15, 2002
posted by alumshubby at 6:07 AM on January 15, 2002
Alcohol Laws in the US are a joke. A simple cutoff point where you drop airhead teenies into the adult world just won't work. A slow, gradual introduction to, and plenty of education about, alcohol is what's really needed in order to prevent alcohol-related deaths. When I spent time last summer with my American peers (I'm schooled in the UK), at a certain Ivy League university on RI, I was shocked at how immature with substances they were. They, in turn were shocked when I told them about alcohol laws back in Blighty, and the small bar in my boarding school. One night, at 1.30 in the morning, I had to escort a girl who is in university now back to here room, after she turned up at my door and puked into my toilet about five times. They simply didn't have any idea about the damn substance. On the other hand, my peers over here, at least know when to stop before they do themselves any harm (shame, really).
Bloody ridiculous. That said, there were also people there who told me how pathetic I was (health wise) for smoking (tobacco), while they were blazed up.
posted by Jongo at 7:22 AM on January 15, 2002
Bloody ridiculous. That said, there were also people there who told me how pathetic I was (health wise) for smoking (tobacco), while they were blazed up.
posted by Jongo at 7:22 AM on January 15, 2002
Jongo... what a fascinating idea! Now if we can do the same with driving priveleges.
posted by silusGROK at 9:05 AM on January 15, 2002
posted by silusGROK at 9:05 AM on January 15, 2002
Jongo... what a fascinating idea! Now if we can do the same with driving priveleges.
Um...It's not an idea, it's the way it's been done in Europe since the beginning.
Alcohol is the bloody scourge of society. Cars aren't. Anyhow, the better drivers I know are the ones who actually knew how to handle a car long before they were 16/17/18 years old anyhow. That doesn't mean that they were running wild on the motorway before their balls dropped, but they weren't dropped into the deep end either.
posted by Jongo at 1:25 PM on January 15, 2002
Um...It's not an idea, it's the way it's been done in Europe since the beginning.
Alcohol is the bloody scourge of society. Cars aren't. Anyhow, the better drivers I know are the ones who actually knew how to handle a car long before they were 16/17/18 years old anyhow. That doesn't mean that they were running wild on the motorway before their balls dropped, but they weren't dropped into the deep end either.
posted by Jongo at 1:25 PM on January 15, 2002
Um... I wasn't being snarky. I was being serious. It just didn't come across that way.
My personal view of driver's licenses is that minors shouldn't have them.
As for drinking priveleges, I'm dry... so I have a fairly strong sentiment against alcohol. Period. That said, I think that enlightened legislation -- such as what you're suggesting -- could actually lessen the lure for children to drink.
Sorry. I should have been more articulate, and a little less exultant.
posted by silusGROK at 10:17 PM on January 15, 2002
My personal view of driver's licenses is that minors shouldn't have them.
As for drinking priveleges, I'm dry... so I have a fairly strong sentiment against alcohol. Period. That said, I think that enlightened legislation -- such as what you're suggesting -- could actually lessen the lure for children to drink.
Sorry. I should have been more articulate, and a little less exultant.
posted by silusGROK at 10:17 PM on January 15, 2002
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posted by ktheory at 10:09 PM on January 14, 2002