Bigger than a breadboard II
April 25, 2014 3:33 PM Subscribe
Following on the heels of Phonebloks, a Google/Motorola formed a design group called Project Ara. The Verge recently interviewed Paul Eremenko, the project lead, about progress made towards modularization of mobile phone components, overcoming engineering issues, and the group assigning itself an ambitious timetable to succeed in delivering a sellable product within two years, or disbanding.
Might as well just use a raspberry pi for a smartphone.
posted by oceanjesse at 4:19 PM on April 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 4:19 PM on April 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Funny you should say that.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/piphone-home-made-raspberry-pi-smartphone/
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 4:27 PM on April 25, 2014 [5 favorites]
http://www.raspberrypi.org/piphone-home-made-raspberry-pi-smartphone/
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 4:27 PM on April 25, 2014 [5 favorites]
I think this will be amazing and potentially an industry-changing move by Google. I'm imagining things like 3rd party vendors for components (e.g. GoPro making a camera for these phones, or Bose-made speaker modules). Many color choices, see-through modules, etc etc etc.
Plus, for those out there who do worry about pervasive surveillance - you can always remove that little camera module and no NSA agent can see through your camera for the time being, etc :)
posted by fantodstic at 4:28 PM on April 25, 2014
Plus, for those out there who do worry about pervasive surveillance - you can always remove that little camera module and no NSA agent can see through your camera for the time being, etc :)
posted by fantodstic at 4:28 PM on April 25, 2014
The Phonebloks concept is pretty cool, but I think as an end-user I'd settle just for a more standardized and robust way of attaching peripherals to my phone.
Right now, aside from the occasional device (Square card readers) that plug into the headphone port, you have to use the MicroUSB on the bottom, which means either the device has to provide another charging port or you have to remove the device in order to charge it. This leads to a lot of crappy add-ons that involve basically building a case around the entire phone, or a giant hunk of plastic down at the bottom. (And then you have the shitshow that is Apple's proprietary connectors, of course, but that's intentionally bad.)
I doubt most people want to add more than one peripheral item to their phone, but the item in question is going to vary. Not probably to the level of wanting to customize the entire phone, though.
Still, glad to see a company aiming high for once.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:29 PM on April 25, 2014
Right now, aside from the occasional device (Square card readers) that plug into the headphone port, you have to use the MicroUSB on the bottom, which means either the device has to provide another charging port or you have to remove the device in order to charge it. This leads to a lot of crappy add-ons that involve basically building a case around the entire phone, or a giant hunk of plastic down at the bottom. (And then you have the shitshow that is Apple's proprietary connectors, of course, but that's intentionally bad.)
I doubt most people want to add more than one peripheral item to their phone, but the item in question is going to vary. Not probably to the level of wanting to customize the entire phone, though.
Still, glad to see a company aiming high for once.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:29 PM on April 25, 2014
I think this will be amazing and potentially an industry-changing move by Google.
I think it makes as much sense as componentized computers - that is, a niche occupied by a certain kind of nerd that's largely irrelevant to the larger market. Parted-out phones make even less sense than gaming rigs because space and reliability are at much more of a premium for phones.
Gaming computer are impressive, sure, but almost nobody wants one. What people actually want is an appliance that works.
posted by mhoye at 4:33 PM on April 25, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think it makes as much sense as componentized computers - that is, a niche occupied by a certain kind of nerd that's largely irrelevant to the larger market. Parted-out phones make even less sense than gaming rigs because space and reliability are at much more of a premium for phones.
Gaming computer are impressive, sure, but almost nobody wants one. What people actually want is an appliance that works.
posted by mhoye at 4:33 PM on April 25, 2014 [6 favorites]
People already buy useless "phone charms" just so they have something pretty to wave around while they're lining up a shot on the phonecam. I don't think it will be difficult to sell plugins that do something useless yet charming.
posted by LogicalDash at 4:41 PM on April 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by LogicalDash at 4:41 PM on April 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Plus, for those out there who do worry about pervasive surveillance - you can always remove that little camera module and no NSA agent can see through your camera for the time being, etc :)
This won't help me with my call logs, my GPS, my cell-phone triangulation, and all the ad-networks that are monitoring my phone usage. The NSA does a ton of stuff, but I think the camera on my phone is one of the last targets it could care about (how often is your phone camera pointing anywhere useful to a would-be-attacker?).
posted by el io at 4:41 PM on April 25, 2014
This won't help me with my call logs, my GPS, my cell-phone triangulation, and all the ad-networks that are monitoring my phone usage. The NSA does a ton of stuff, but I think the camera on my phone is one of the last targets it could care about (how often is your phone camera pointing anywhere useful to a would-be-attacker?).
posted by el io at 4:41 PM on April 25, 2014
a niche occupied by a certain kind of nerd that's largely irrelevant to the larger market.
Completely agree, but only in the First World where we have phone plans, subsidized contracts, etc. Could be a difference maker everywhere else.
how often is your phone camera pointing anywhere useful to a would-be-attacker?
Spoken like a loser who doesn't take dick pics.
posted by yerfatma at 4:57 PM on April 25, 2014
Completely agree, but only in the First World where we have phone plans, subsidized contracts, etc. Could be a difference maker everywhere else.
how often is your phone camera pointing anywhere useful to a would-be-attacker?
Spoken like a loser who doesn't take dick pics.
posted by yerfatma at 4:57 PM on April 25, 2014
"I think it makes as much sense as componentized computers - that is, a niche occupied by a certain kind of nerd that's largely irrelevant to the larger market."
Industry standard, open hardware, componentized computers built the personal computer industry and modern computing. If it had just been Apple and Commodore and IBM had made some different decisions, the world would look much different and, I think, worse. Commoditized PC components made all the difference historically even when only a small portion of end-users took advantage of it. It's not about the end-users, it's about the standardization of the platform making the market available to other manufacturers, and not just in the whole-device sense, but in the component sense.
The proof is in the pudding, as in terms of PC hardware even Apple has entered the fold. Standard componentization, as you put it, would utterly transform the smartphone market in exactly the same way it did the PC market. Not because end-users would put together the smartphone equivalent of a gaming rig, but because costs will go down for everyone while both system and component designers and manufacturers have greater freedom to innovate piecemeal and to satisfy diverse end-user requirements.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:05 PM on April 25, 2014 [3 favorites]
Industry standard, open hardware, componentized computers built the personal computer industry and modern computing. If it had just been Apple and Commodore and IBM had made some different decisions, the world would look much different and, I think, worse. Commoditized PC components made all the difference historically even when only a small portion of end-users took advantage of it. It's not about the end-users, it's about the standardization of the platform making the market available to other manufacturers, and not just in the whole-device sense, but in the component sense.
The proof is in the pudding, as in terms of PC hardware even Apple has entered the fold. Standard componentization, as you put it, would utterly transform the smartphone market in exactly the same way it did the PC market. Not because end-users would put together the smartphone equivalent of a gaming rig, but because costs will go down for everyone while both system and component designers and manufacturers have greater freedom to innovate piecemeal and to satisfy diverse end-user requirements.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:05 PM on April 25, 2014 [3 favorites]
Following on the heels of Phonebloks,
This is incorrect. Project Ara came first. Motorola started working on Project Ara in April 2013, the Phonebloks concept was developed as a student project in fall 2013. It was a case of independent invention.
posted by heathkit at 9:59 PM on April 25, 2014
This is incorrect. Project Ara came first. Motorola started working on Project Ara in April 2013, the Phonebloks concept was developed as a student project in fall 2013. It was a case of independent invention.
posted by heathkit at 9:59 PM on April 25, 2014
Parted-out phones make even less sense than gaming rigs because space and reliability are at much more of a premium for phones.
Well, in some senses, yes -- but then people take photos with iPads and use phablets the size of small aircraft carrier landing decks as phones, too. I think the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak, and the pudding here is whether this sparks an aftermarket of interesting plug-in devices. Given we're right on the cusp of IoT/wearables and a few other things being really viable, there's a lot of potential here.
People talk a lot about tablets giving them another way to consume media, but some of the most interesting uses of tablets are in vertical markets. My furnace was put in by some guys who had a very sweet custom app on what I think was Apple hardware that could have helped them spec duct sizing, materials pulls, and even specialized OEM part ordering -- but of course it also calculated their labor charges and printed me an invoice in the truck.
posted by dhartung at 11:35 PM on April 25, 2014
Well, in some senses, yes -- but then people take photos with iPads and use phablets the size of small aircraft carrier landing decks as phones, too. I think the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak, and the pudding here is whether this sparks an aftermarket of interesting plug-in devices. Given we're right on the cusp of IoT/wearables and a few other things being really viable, there's a lot of potential here.
People talk a lot about tablets giving them another way to consume media, but some of the most interesting uses of tablets are in vertical markets. My furnace was put in by some guys who had a very sweet custom app on what I think was Apple hardware that could have helped them spec duct sizing, materials pulls, and even specialized OEM part ordering -- but of course it also calculated their labor charges and printed me an invoice in the truck.
posted by dhartung at 11:35 PM on April 25, 2014
"I think it makes as much sense as componentized computers - that is, a niche occupied by a certain kind of nerd that's largely irrelevant to the larger market."
I don't think this is an accurate comparison. First of all, "componentized computers" were essential to affordable computing. Standardizing interfaces and providing modularity allowed OEMs like Dell, HP, or Apple to pick and choose the best parts for their needs, and also allowed them build computers with different configurations for different kinds of customers. The fact that interested hobbyists could do the same was just a happy accident of history.
But that's not really relevant, since the Project Ara concept isn't analogous to swapping out the video or memory in your computer. It's more like adding or removing USB peripherals. USB provides a standard so manufacturers can make an external drive, camera, or input device that works with anyone's computer. Likewise, the goal with Ara is to allow manufacturers to make extra storage, cameras, or batteries that work with anyone's phone.
That's why I don't like the Phonebloks concept - that's presented much more like you're swapping out the CPU or memory in PC. For various reasons, there's a certain set of peripherals that have become standard for phones - forward and rear camera, GPS, Wifi, internal storage, and coming soon depth cameras. Maybe not everyone wants all of these all the time. Ara allows more experimentation with the kinds of peripherals we add to phones without needing to develop a new device to try a new arrangement.
posted by heathkit at 12:04 AM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is an accurate comparison. First of all, "componentized computers" were essential to affordable computing. Standardizing interfaces and providing modularity allowed OEMs like Dell, HP, or Apple to pick and choose the best parts for their needs, and also allowed them build computers with different configurations for different kinds of customers. The fact that interested hobbyists could do the same was just a happy accident of history.
But that's not really relevant, since the Project Ara concept isn't analogous to swapping out the video or memory in your computer. It's more like adding or removing USB peripherals. USB provides a standard so manufacturers can make an external drive, camera, or input device that works with anyone's computer. Likewise, the goal with Ara is to allow manufacturers to make extra storage, cameras, or batteries that work with anyone's phone.
That's why I don't like the Phonebloks concept - that's presented much more like you're swapping out the CPU or memory in PC. For various reasons, there's a certain set of peripherals that have become standard for phones - forward and rear camera, GPS, Wifi, internal storage, and coming soon depth cameras. Maybe not everyone wants all of these all the time. Ara allows more experimentation with the kinds of peripherals we add to phones without needing to develop a new device to try a new arrangement.
posted by heathkit at 12:04 AM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Maybe not everyone wants all of these all the time.
I was thinking that, and thought it would probably be more appropriate from a marketing standpoint to not call these devices phones anymore, and go back to something more general, like "computer". Especially if, speakers, microphones, touch screens, or phone antennae end up being removable/interchangeable.
posted by FJT at 1:48 PM on April 26, 2014
I was thinking that, and thought it would probably be more appropriate from a marketing standpoint to not call these devices phones anymore, and go back to something more general, like "computer". Especially if, speakers, microphones, touch screens, or phone antennae end up being removable/interchangeable.
posted by FJT at 1:48 PM on April 26, 2014
Likewise, the goal with Ara is to allow manufacturers to make extra storage, cameras, or batteries that work with anyone's phone.
This is the part I don't really get. What you're describing isn't a fancy new kind of phone, it's a fancy new kind of phone _case_.
The Phonebloks concept and Project Ara make approximately no sense on their own, but they make a ton of sense if you could build them into, say, an AraCase on the back of an iPhone. (The other reason I doubt it'll take off: because it's being run by Googorola, and their ecosystem is a disaster as far as standardization goes.)
posted by mhoye at 7:03 PM on April 26, 2014
This is the part I don't really get. What you're describing isn't a fancy new kind of phone, it's a fancy new kind of phone _case_.
The Phonebloks concept and Project Ara make approximately no sense on their own, but they make a ton of sense if you could build them into, say, an AraCase on the back of an iPhone. (The other reason I doubt it'll take off: because it's being run by Googorola, and their ecosystem is a disaster as far as standardization goes.)
posted by mhoye at 7:03 PM on April 26, 2014
I'd be all up in this project if I thought I could get the phone I'm actually looking for: Flagship CPU & GPU, GPS that can get a lock measured in tens of feet in 5 seconds, even on bad signal days, QWERTY slider keyboard, and a battery with at least 20,000 mAh.
But I doubt that, even with the much touted interchangabiity, that Ara would deliver me such a beast.
posted by radwolf76 at 1:43 AM on April 28, 2014
But I doubt that, even with the much touted interchangabiity, that Ara would deliver me such a beast.
posted by radwolf76 at 1:43 AM on April 28, 2014
and a battery with at least 20,000 mAh.
I think it's just us, man.
I have huge hands, and would happily both hold and carry a phone that was as brick-like as an original gameboy, or one of the old windows mobile sliders(like the qtek bricks) if it had enough capacity that i could run it for most of a week without even thinking about charging it. I don't care if it takes 8+ hours to charge if it's really run down, i'll plug it in when i get home and leave it plugged in until i leave the house in the morning. I'm still mad that there isn't something like the mophie juicepack for the iphone that instead gives you say, 5000-10,000mah instead of like 1800-2000.
I actually have a bit of hope for this project on that front though. What's to say they won't have "slice" style batteries like some laptops that just cover most of the back of the device?
I think i was just spoiled by several older phones i owned though in previous years. There was one REALLY simple motorola i had(something like the v180) that with regular, even heavy use would last the better part of a week. why has no one realized, barring half hearted attempts like the razr maxx and such, that this is a feature people would pay for?
posted by emptythought at 2:31 AM on April 28, 2014
I think it's just us, man.
I have huge hands, and would happily both hold and carry a phone that was as brick-like as an original gameboy, or one of the old windows mobile sliders(like the qtek bricks) if it had enough capacity that i could run it for most of a week without even thinking about charging it. I don't care if it takes 8+ hours to charge if it's really run down, i'll plug it in when i get home and leave it plugged in until i leave the house in the morning. I'm still mad that there isn't something like the mophie juicepack for the iphone that instead gives you say, 5000-10,000mah instead of like 1800-2000.
I actually have a bit of hope for this project on that front though. What's to say they won't have "slice" style batteries like some laptops that just cover most of the back of the device?
I think i was just spoiled by several older phones i owned though in previous years. There was one REALLY simple motorola i had(something like the v180) that with regular, even heavy use would last the better part of a week. why has no one realized, barring half hearted attempts like the razr maxx and such, that this is a feature people would pay for?
posted by emptythought at 2:31 AM on April 28, 2014
Standard componentization, as you put it, would utterly transform the smartphone market
This has basically already happened. Basically all the inexpensive Android phones run on ARM-based "system-on-a-chip" platforms (SoCs).
It's not like plugging ISA cards together, but you pick the SoC, add stuff like RAM and Flash storage and some differentiating add-ons like the kind of camera, display, or SD Card slot you want, have an assembler solder it all together (many SoCs are "chip on chip", i.e. they have solder points on both the top and bottom of the package, so they get sandwiched together with other parts), toss yourcustomized bastardized version of Android on there, and there's your smartphone. Or tablet, the latter being much easier to manufacture since it doesn't have the cellular bits. And, unsurprisingly, there are a ton of them from no-name Chinese manufacturers floating around in the world.
The SoCs made by Qualcomm and some others include everything down to the cellular baseband, GPS, Bluetooth, and WiFi chipsets. If you want to DIY those parts, you can get SOCs that are just the CPU and GPU, but then you have a higher parts count and it's unlikely for most manufacturers to beat the integrated approach in terms of cost that way.
I think that when the history of early smartphones is written, it's the openness of the ARM architecture that is going to be analogous, in terms of importance, to the x86 clones that commoditized the PC.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:07 AM on April 28, 2014
This has basically already happened. Basically all the inexpensive Android phones run on ARM-based "system-on-a-chip" platforms (SoCs).
It's not like plugging ISA cards together, but you pick the SoC, add stuff like RAM and Flash storage and some differentiating add-ons like the kind of camera, display, or SD Card slot you want, have an assembler solder it all together (many SoCs are "chip on chip", i.e. they have solder points on both the top and bottom of the package, so they get sandwiched together with other parts), toss your
The SoCs made by Qualcomm and some others include everything down to the cellular baseband, GPS, Bluetooth, and WiFi chipsets. If you want to DIY those parts, you can get SOCs that are just the CPU and GPU, but then you have a higher parts count and it's unlikely for most manufacturers to beat the integrated approach in terms of cost that way.
I think that when the history of early smartphones is written, it's the openness of the ARM architecture that is going to be analogous, in terms of importance, to the x86 clones that commoditized the PC.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:07 AM on April 28, 2014
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posted by XMLicious at 4:09 PM on April 25, 2014