NOT related to Monty Python's Argument Clinic
April 26, 2014 10:23 AM Subscribe
Argument Champion, a game that uses logical connections between words to pwn your opponent.
This game is based on browsing CONCEPTNET. If you like CONCEPTNET, you also like WORDNET. And WORDNET is much like A DICTIONARY. Therefore, once you've played this game for a while, you'll find it about as entertaining as FLIPPING THROUGH A DICTIONARY.
posted by RogerB at 11:19 AM on April 26, 2014 [29 favorites]
posted by RogerB at 11:19 AM on April 26, 2014 [29 favorites]
First game, got to the world championships, and chose Devil. I never once found a connection between anything the audience liked and devils. Whoops.
posted by pwnguin at 11:30 AM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by pwnguin at 11:30 AM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
... you'll find it about as entertaining as FLIPPING THROUGH A DICTIONARY.
I'm not sure, but is that supposed to mean that we won't find it very entertaining? 'Cuz you might have mis-judged your audience here.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:33 AM on April 26, 2014 [22 favorites]
I'm not sure, but is that supposed to mean that we won't find it very entertaining? 'Cuz you might have mis-judged your audience here.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:33 AM on April 26, 2014 [22 favorites]
The use of flash is an automatic DQ on any claim of pwnage.
posted by humanfont at 11:36 AM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 11:36 AM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
No it doesn't.
posted by Naberius at 11:41 AM on April 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 11:41 AM on April 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
Today I learned that those who loathe urine clearly hate fire.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:41 AM on April 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:41 AM on April 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
Shame 2p mode isn't ready yet. I wonder if it'll be matching you with another player, or if it's for two people on the same machine.
posted by kafziel at 11:44 AM on April 26, 2014
posted by kafziel at 11:44 AM on April 26, 2014
Might be even awesomer for a sequel if they used Wikipedia connections instead of ConceptNet.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:03 PM on April 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:03 PM on April 26, 2014 [4 favorites]
First game, got to the world championships, and chose Devil. I never once found a connection between anything the audience liked and devils.
Same here. I picked "dispose", because that was slightly less obscure than the other option. Never once found a connection.
To be fair, this was made for a game jam. It's an interesting mechanic, though pretty rough in this incarnation—the connections between words are just too arbitrary and unpredictable, so you just end up poking around the network until you stumble across the word you're looking for.
But I can see the basic idea being refined into a solid mechanic for part of a larger game, perhaps using something other than words for the nodes in the network (symbols, possibly procedurally generated? musical sequences?).
Might be even awesomer for a sequel if they used Wikipedia connections instead of ConceptNet.
Related: Wikirunner.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:11 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Same here. I picked "dispose", because that was slightly less obscure than the other option. Never once found a connection.
To be fair, this was made for a game jam. It's an interesting mechanic, though pretty rough in this incarnation—the connections between words are just too arbitrary and unpredictable, so you just end up poking around the network until you stumble across the word you're looking for.
But I can see the basic idea being refined into a solid mechanic for part of a larger game, perhaps using something other than words for the nodes in the network (symbols, possibly procedurally generated? musical sequences?).
Might be even awesomer for a sequel if they used Wikipedia connections instead of ConceptNet.
Related: Wikirunner.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:11 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
"FEAR leads to ANGER; ANGER leads to HATE; HATE leads to SUFFERING. SUFFERING is the path to the DARK SIDE. Therefore if you disapprove of FEAR, you also disapprove of the DARK SIDE."
Then again, I got my audience to agree that they must approve of BLOOD because they like EVIL, so...
posted by Rangi at 12:21 PM on April 26, 2014 [9 favorites]
Then again, I got my audience to agree that they must approve of BLOOD because they like EVIL, so...
posted by Rangi at 12:21 PM on April 26, 2014 [9 favorites]
"If you hate FREEDOM, you hate FUN. You can't loathe FUN without loathing JOY." And somehow, this is an argument against joy.
posted by Rangi at 12:30 PM on April 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Rangi at 12:30 PM on April 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
I got my audience to agree that they don't like CHRIST because they dislike the GOVERNMENT.
Good game, but I think it'd benefit from more work. Some of the connections are too abstract/not well-vetted.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:45 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Good game, but I think it'd benefit from more work. Some of the connections are too abstract/not well-vetted.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 12:45 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
My audience decided that "nazi" deserved a heart. So many ways I can go with that...
posted by spiderskull at 1:14 PM on April 26, 2014
posted by spiderskull at 1:14 PM on April 26, 2014
My audience decided that "nazi" deserved a heart. So many ways I can go with that...
You know who else liked nazis?
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:29 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
You know who else liked nazis?
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:29 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Apparently people who like professors or novels like abortions.
Moral of the story: do not have an affair with your English prof.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 2:11 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Moral of the story: do not have an affair with your English prof.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 2:11 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
It could use some work, but I really like the concept. It reminds of when I used to help my friend study for his tort law exams. The again, what would I know? I'm just the National Argument Champion.
(My word was "length." In the final round I was trying to turn around the negative "wood" my opponent hung on me, so the winning move was convincing the audience that if they like "wood" they like "length."
posted by Room 641-A at 2:17 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
(My word was "length." In the final round I was trying to turn around the negative "wood" my opponent hung on me, so the winning move was convincing the audience that if they like "wood" they like "length."
posted by Room 641-A at 2:17 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
The great thing about this game is that it doesn't model how arguments should work, where one proves and disproves theses by logically demonstrating truth and falsehood to dispassionate objective observers, but on how they actually do work on the Internet, where people offer strained sequences of bullshit metaphors to link some song, TV show, government social program, or fad to "socialist tyranny" or "colonialism" or "American values" or "privilege" etc., depending on the prejudices of the crowd.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 2:18 PM on April 26, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 2:18 PM on April 26, 2014 [9 favorites]
I thought it was cute, but it said I won every round and I couldn't tell if i really won or if it was a bug, because it didn't seem like I was winning.
I think if the word networks were less obscure it might be too easy.
posted by bleep at 3:19 PM on April 26, 2014
I think if the word networks were less obscure it might be too easy.
posted by bleep at 3:19 PM on April 26, 2014
fuck, I loathe the word "pwn"
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:44 PM on April 26, 2014
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:44 PM on April 26, 2014
This game, though, is very, very satisfying. I like being Argument Champion.
posted by Hermione Granger at 4:10 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Hermione Granger at 4:10 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
But...but...I am ARGUMENT CHAMPION!
posted by sfts2 at 4:40 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by sfts2 at 4:40 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
No you're not.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yes I am.
posted by sfts2 at 4:45 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by sfts2 at 4:45 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
My options for the final round were "just" or "murray."
Um.
posted by pemberkins at 5:00 PM on April 26, 2014
Um.
posted by pemberkins at 5:00 PM on April 26, 2014
Why would you design a game like this with a mechanic that makes text ap-pe-ar on yo-ur s-cree-en ve-ry s-l-o-o-o-o-o-w-l-y?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:03 PM on April 26, 2014
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:03 PM on April 26, 2014
It's suspense... like the way "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-s out four questions per half hour show...
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:10 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:10 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Everyone liked Length.
And here I thought it didn't matter.
posted by mule98J at 5:11 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
And here I thought it didn't matter.
posted by mule98J at 5:11 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you click the text boxes, that makes all the words that are slowly typing appear; especially towards the end I was clicking a lot.
In the final round, I didn't ever find a connection to my word, so I just spent the whole time arguing down my opponent's words, which was helped by being able to see how they linked. Didn't win by much, but still won. Thank you, alien observer.
posted by gadge emeritus at 6:13 PM on April 26, 2014
In the final round, I didn't ever find a connection to my word, so I just spent the whole time arguing down my opponent's words, which was helped by being able to see how they linked. Didn't win by much, but still won. Thank you, alien observer.
posted by gadge emeritus at 6:13 PM on April 26, 2014
Proposed subtitle: How To Argue Like My Freshman Comp Students
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 7:23 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 7:23 PM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Why would you design a game like this with a mechanic that makes text ap-pe-ar on yo-ur s-cree-en ve-ry s-l-o-o-o-o-o-w-l-y?
Is it a Japanese thing? It seems like every Japanese RPG does that. Is there something about the Japanese language that makes it less annoying than in English?
posted by straight at 7:35 PM on April 26, 2014
Is it a Japanese thing? It seems like every Japanese RPG does that. Is there something about the Japanese language that makes it less annoying than in English?
posted by straight at 7:35 PM on April 26, 2014
I am really good at this. Now what?
posted by unknowncommand at 9:08 PM on April 26, 2014
posted by unknowncommand at 9:08 PM on April 26, 2014
mule98J: "Everyone liked Length.
And here I thought it didn't matter"
Obviously this is a problem with the granularity of the simulation.
Designers, if you're reading this, please make it clearer that while people might like Length OK, what they really want is Girth.
posted by Copronymus at 10:08 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
And here I thought it didn't matter"
Obviously this is a problem with the granularity of the simulation.
Designers, if you're reading this, please make it clearer that while people might like Length OK, what they really want is Girth.
posted by Copronymus at 10:08 PM on April 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Is it a Japanese thing? It seems like every Japanese RPG does that. Is there something about the Japanese language that makes it less annoying than in English?
I think I've seen Powerpoints doing something like it, and media that's not Japanese making use of it. Titles done in typewriter text with accompanying sounds come to mind, though I don't know where I remember that from.
Loading sentences letter by letter seems like a text effect that if done right would make text load at the speed you're reading it. Would imagine everyone's reading speed differs, though, so it's probably best done with a speed adjustable slider.
That said, in Japanese, each symbol usually corresponds to a syllable.
posted by aroweofshale at 11:23 PM on April 26, 2014
I think I've seen Powerpoints doing something like it, and media that's not Japanese making use of it. Titles done in typewriter text with accompanying sounds come to mind, though I don't know where I remember that from.
Loading sentences letter by letter seems like a text effect that if done right would make text load at the speed you're reading it. Would imagine everyone's reading speed differs, though, so it's probably best done with a speed adjustable slider.
That said, in Japanese, each symbol usually corresponds to a syllable.
posted by aroweofshale at 11:23 PM on April 26, 2014
Arguing in favour of SHELF versus ANGER. Connecting SHELF to GLASGOW took a while. (Something like 'GLASGOW' - 'AIRPORT' - 'STATION' - 'AIRPORT' - 'STATION' - 'SHELF' but more convoluted.)
"The audience HATES TRAFFIC. Argue to connect TRAFFIC with your opponent's topic, ANGER?"
The audience graphics remind me of Earthbound.
posted by aroweofshale at 11:35 PM on April 26, 2014
"The audience HATES TRAFFIC. Argue to connect TRAFFIC with your opponent's topic, ANGER?"
The audience graphics remind me of Earthbound.
posted by aroweofshale at 11:35 PM on April 26, 2014
Those who resent DAUGHTER tend to hate GIRL. As soon as I think of GIRL, I think of FEMININE. I despise FEMININE, and therefore I hate FEMINIST.
That was awesome.
posted by eugenen at 1:36 AM on April 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
That was awesome.
posted by eugenen at 1:36 AM on April 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
It seems to be a stronger sway if you see several audience members thinking of the same thing they like/dislike at once (during the argument-forming phase). I tried to pick the broadest topics possible when arguing. Overall, this game is a blast! Definitely recommending it to my friends.
posted by pony707 at 4:22 AM on April 27, 2014
posted by pony707 at 4:22 AM on April 27, 2014
That said, in Japanese, each symbol usually corresponds to a syllable.
Naturally, I forgot about kanji when typing this. (Kanji can correspond to more than one syllable, so, if anything, they speed up your reading speed if you're familiar with them.) Sorry, had some severe tunnel vision there.
posted by aroweofshale at 6:23 AM on April 27, 2014
Naturally, I forgot about kanji when typing this. (Kanji can correspond to more than one syllable, so, if anything, they speed up your reading speed if you're familiar with them.) Sorry, had some severe tunnel vision there.
posted by aroweofshale at 6:23 AM on April 27, 2014
This should be used to settle the spoiler policy debate over in the FanaFare MeTa.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:49 AM on April 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:49 AM on April 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
How appropriate, you fight like a cow (previously)
posted by filthy light thief at 9:32 AM on April 27, 2014
posted by filthy light thief at 9:32 AM on April 27, 2014
Joe in Australia: Why would you design a game like this with a mechanic that makes text ap-pe-ar on yo-ur s-cree-en ve-ry s-l-o-o-o-o-o-w-l-y?
It seems that you can click on the dialog box and make it go a bit faster. That, or it's the "make the walk sign turn faster by pushing the button more" illusion.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 AM on April 27, 2014
It seems that you can click on the dialog box and make it go a bit faster. That, or it's the "make the walk sign turn faster by pushing the button more" illusion.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 AM on April 27, 2014
My biggest hurdle so far is predicting things will be closely related that aren't.
I saw that people liked TWINS, and I thought that would be easy to connect to SIMILARITY but no ...
posted by RobotHero at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2014
I saw that people liked TWINS, and I thought that would be easy to connect to SIMILARITY but no ...
posted by RobotHero at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2014
I'm not sure that poland --> country --> sam --> drunk makes any sense, but what do I know about what Sam does in his off hours?
posted by NoraReed at 5:04 PM on April 27, 2014
posted by NoraReed at 5:04 PM on April 27, 2014
Yeah, I don't get why so many proper names are in there.
But I do want to say, I'm frequently tickled by the nonsense they say. "As soon as I say HUMAN you think of INSTRUCTOR." Well, obviously, first thing.
posted by RobotHero at 5:46 PM on April 27, 2014
But I do want to say, I'm frequently tickled by the nonsense they say. "As soon as I say HUMAN you think of INSTRUCTOR." Well, obviously, first thing.
posted by RobotHero at 5:46 PM on April 27, 2014
Love BAG then you love SKIN.
posted by RobotHero at 5:49 PM on April 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotHero at 5:49 PM on April 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Okay, I just connected Pottery to Soil to Earth to Men to Fertile, because I was scrambling around because apparently SOIL > GARDEN > HARVEST none of those are connected to FERTILE like you might expect, but MEN is, via EARTH of all things.
posted by RobotHero at 10:18 PM on April 27, 2014
posted by RobotHero at 10:18 PM on April 27, 2014
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posted by spiderskull at 10:59 AM on April 26, 2014 [1 favorite]