The horrrific 2014 GM rolling sarcophagus deathtraps are here!
May 19, 2014 7:41 AM Subscribe
What do the words "safety," ''chaotic" and "problem" have in common? They're all on General Motors' list of banned words for employees who were documenting potential safety issues. The revelation of the 68-word list is one of the odder twists in GM's ongoing recall of 2.6 million older-model small cars for defective ignition switches. Last Week Tonight with John Oliver weighs in.
I'm wondering why my normal-sized car is "small." SUV the norm now?
posted by agregoli at 7:51 AM on May 19, 2014
posted by agregoli at 7:51 AM on May 19, 2014
I'm wondering why my normal-sized car is "small." SUV the norm now?
It's based on cup holders
12+ Large
9-12 Normal
4-8 Small
4- Bicycle
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:53 AM on May 19, 2014 [42 favorites]
It's based on cup holders
12+ Large
9-12 Normal
4-8 Small
4- Bicycle
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:53 AM on May 19, 2014 [42 favorites]
Even seemingly benign words like "always" and "never" made it on the list ... GM said flowery language simply wasn't helpful in getting to the root of a problem.
"Always" and "never", the hallmarks of purple prose.
posted by compartment at 7:53 AM on May 19, 2014 [9 favorites]
"Always" and "never", the hallmarks of purple prose.
posted by compartment at 7:53 AM on May 19, 2014 [9 favorites]
Oh I've been in these kinds of "look guys quit saying our product is awful just because it is" meetings before.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:55 AM on May 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:55 AM on May 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
More seriously, I don't find this list all that bothersome. Obviously, you are not going to want to have your employees using worlds like "deathtrap" in any official material which might show up in court.
The fact that GM took so damn long to address the problem is a lot more damning (and the real story).
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:56 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
The fact that GM took so damn long to address the problem is a lot more damning (and the real story).
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:56 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
While barring safety inspectors from using the term "safety" is over the line, I can appreciate not wanting "horrific," "Hindenburg" or "unbelievable engineering screw-up" to appear on these reports.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also, is it just me, or is "rolling sarcophagus" kind of appealing? Like those old Aurora monster car kits -- you know, Dracula's Dragster and the Godzilla Go-Cart?
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:01 AM on May 19, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:01 AM on May 19, 2014 [13 favorites]
Of course there is the "we get sued twice a day so assume every word you write will be examined by a jury" factor. I'm guessing the language can play a huge part in settlements.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:01 AM on May 19, 2014
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:01 AM on May 19, 2014
While barring safety inspectors from using the term "safety" is over the line, I can appreciate not wanting "horrific," "Hindenburg" or "unbelievable engineering screw-up" to appear on these reports.
I'm usually impressed with the controlled, defined vocabulary used in climate change reports, where specific phrases map onto specific confidence intervals, levels of disruption, etc. Unfortunately, this is nothing like that.
It is frustrating that even with the ability to strong-arm the Federal government into keeping them afloat, GM continues to flounder. It's almost as though welfare works better when given to individuals rather than corporations.
posted by jsturgill at 8:03 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
I'm usually impressed with the controlled, defined vocabulary used in climate change reports, where specific phrases map onto specific confidence intervals, levels of disruption, etc. Unfortunately, this is nothing like that.
It is frustrating that even with the ability to strong-arm the Federal government into keeping them afloat, GM continues to flounder. It's almost as though welfare works better when given to individuals rather than corporations.
posted by jsturgill at 8:03 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
Yeah there is some room for siding with GM here on some of these. I would never construct a status report so casually that I would use the words 'death-trap'. There are other ways to be completely clear while remaining professional, such as 'failed 9 of 10 basic safety indicators', 'i strongly recommend we recall this model due to it's obvious and potentially life-threatening flaws' etc. I would however use the word 'death trap' in an actual conversation with management in a meeting if I felt that my recommendation was being ignored.
posted by spicynuts at 8:03 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by spicynuts at 8:03 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
The damning part is that they imagined that these phrases would leap to mind when their engineers were asked to talk about this problem. "Look, I know the first words you'll be inclined to use with respect to the ignition devices we cheerfully shipped for ten years are 'horrific decapitating rolling sarcophagus' and 'gruesome kevorkianesque disfiguring deathtrap' but our legal department wants you to stop and find another way to put it..."
posted by edheil at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2014 [25 favorites]
posted by edheil at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2014 [25 favorites]
Of course there is the "we get sued twice a day so assume every word you write will be examined by a jury" factor.
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion. I'm sure those words are barred because if they were written, they would be required by law to take action immediately and they didn't want to do that, and if they were written and they didn't, there would be proof that they were ignoring the law.
posted by eriko at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion. I'm sure those words are barred because if they were written, they would be required by law to take action immediately and they didn't want to do that, and if they were written and they didn't, there would be proof that they were ignoring the law.
posted by eriko at 8:05 AM on May 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
"We encourage employees to be factual in their statements..." --GM
I guess they'll work their way up to requiring it.
posted by sixohsix at 8:07 AM on May 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
I guess they'll work their way up to requiring it.
posted by sixohsix at 8:07 AM on May 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
While barring safety inspectors from using the term "safety" is over the line
Yeah, this is the oddest and most inexplicable part. I wonder if those garment inspectors whose little card you sometimes find in pockets ("This Garment Inspected by #43") are forbidden to use the words size, fabric and clothing in their reports.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2014
Yeah, this is the oddest and most inexplicable part. I wonder if those garment inspectors whose little card you sometimes find in pockets ("This Garment Inspected by #43") are forbidden to use the words size, fabric and clothing in their reports.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2014
GenjiandProust: Also, is it just me, or is "rolling sarcophagus" kind of appealing? Like those old Aurora monster car kits -- you know, Dracula's Dragster and the Godzilla Go-Cart?
You're probably thinking of the Gruesome Twosome from Wacky Races.
Personally, I like the mental image of "corpse carrier," which I think I picked up from some hardcore "fuck cars, bikes for life" button or something. To be honest, I often whisper "corpse carriers" to myself when I'm stuck in traffic.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
You're probably thinking of the Gruesome Twosome from Wacky Races.
Personally, I like the mental image of "corpse carrier," which I think I picked up from some hardcore "fuck cars, bikes for life" button or something. To be honest, I often whisper "corpse carriers" to myself when I'm stuck in traffic.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
The damning part is that they imagined that these phrases would leap to mind when their engineers were asked to talk about this problem.
Actually, under the rule of signs*, I'm willing to bet that those phrases were taken from GM memos written prior to the policy.
* The rule of signs: A sign is posted telling you not to do something is posted only after someone did just that. A sign posted tell you do to something is posted only after someone didn't do just that.
posted by eriko at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2014 [18 favorites]
Actually, under the rule of signs*, I'm willing to bet that those phrases were taken from GM memos written prior to the policy.
* The rule of signs: A sign is posted telling you not to do something is posted only after someone did just that. A sign posted tell you do to something is posted only after someone didn't do just that.
posted by eriko at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2014 [18 favorites]
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion.
Either modern lawyers are incompetent, or that law is very strangely written. I'd think it would take a semi-conscious lawyer approximately ten seconds to successfully argue that "not performing as designed" was legally equivalent to "defective" for the purposes of reporting to federal agencies.
posted by aramaic at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2014
Either modern lawyers are incompetent, or that law is very strangely written. I'd think it would take a semi-conscious lawyer approximately ten seconds to successfully argue that "not performing as designed" was legally equivalent to "defective" for the purposes of reporting to federal agencies.
posted by aramaic at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2014
The damning part is that they imagined that these phrases would leap to mind when their engineers were asked to talk about this problem.
I am fairly sure that the reason those phrases are included is that someone actually used them.
posted by empath at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
I am fairly sure that the reason those phrases are included is that someone actually used them.
posted by empath at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
There are other ways to be completely clear while remaining professional, such as 'failed 9 of 10 basic safety indicators',
Except that the word "safety" is on the list of banned words! Obviously some of the words are absurd, but it shows that GM valued protection from liability over publicsafety concern.
Actually, under the rule of signs*, I'm willing to bet that those phrases were taken from GM memos written prior to the policy
Maybe it was the worker's escalating way of trying to point out flaws.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Except that the word "safety" is on the list of banned words! Obviously some of the words are absurd, but it shows that GM valued protection from liability over public
Actually, under the rule of signs*, I'm willing to bet that those phrases were taken from GM memos written prior to the policy
Maybe it was the worker's escalating way of trying to point out flaws.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
also out: "oubliette of mediocrity"
posted by thelonius at 8:17 AM on May 19, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 8:17 AM on May 19, 2014 [12 favorites]
Either modern lawyers are incompetent, or that law is very strangely written. I'd think it would take a semi-conscious lawyer approximately ten seconds to successfully argue that "not performing as designed" was legally equivalent to "defective" for the purposes of reporting to federal agencies.
I don't get why reporting to federal agencies is even a problem. Defects happen, mistakes happen. Customers understand that I think. They're certainly going to pay more in the long term by covering it up.
posted by empath at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2014
I don't get why reporting to federal agencies is even a problem. Defects happen, mistakes happen. Customers understand that I think. They're certainly going to pay more in the long term by covering it up.
posted by empath at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2014
Except that the word "safety" is on the list of banned words!
Probably to make the discovery phase of any lawsuit more difficult.
posted by peeedro at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Probably to make the discovery phase of any lawsuit more difficult.
posted by peeedro at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'd think it would take a semi-conscious lawyer approximately ten seconds to successfully argue that "not performing as designed" was legally equivalent to "defective" for the purposes of reporting to federal agencies.
"Not performing as designed" can mean a lot more than "defective," as the other semi-conscious lawyer in the room would take only five seconds to successfully counterargue.
posted by Etrigan at 8:20 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Not performing as designed" can mean a lot more than "defective," as the other semi-conscious lawyer in the room would take only five seconds to successfully counterargue.
posted by Etrigan at 8:20 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
filthy light thief -- Genjiland Proust might also be thinking of the cartoons of Ed "Big Daddy" Roth, Ed Newton, and Robert Williams, and the Hawk Models "Weird-Ohs" line of model cars. All worth a google image search or two!
The Daddy model car was indeed a rolling sarcophagus.
posted by edheil at 8:22 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
The Daddy model car was indeed a rolling sarcophagus.
posted by edheil at 8:22 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
It's based on cup holders
12+ Large
9-12 Normal
4-8 Small
4- Bicycle
I have a truck that has two cup holders... per person. Luckily it is not a GM so I don't expect it to catch on fire, but I do have the option of keeping lots of water on board just in case.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:26 AM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
12+ Large
9-12 Normal
4-8 Small
4- Bicycle
I have a truck that has two cup holders... per person. Luckily it is not a GM so I don't expect it to catch on fire, but I do have the option of keeping lots of water on board just in case.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:26 AM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
"Why walk through the valley of the shadow of death when you can drive?" is a fucking great slogan.
posted by graventy at 8:30 AM on May 19, 2014 [32 favorites]
posted by graventy at 8:30 AM on May 19, 2014 [32 favorites]
You're probably thinking of the Gruesome Twosome
Oh, no, I meant the Aurora model kits -- here's Godzilla's Go-Cart, which would definitely be a death-trap, but only for every other driver on the road (with the possible exception of Rodan).
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:32 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
Oh, no, I meant the Aurora model kits -- here's Godzilla's Go-Cart, which would definitely be a death-trap, but only for every other driver on the road (with the possible exception of Rodan).
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:32 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
i would have shown up for my pharaohs initiation in a rolling sarcophagus.
were "fire" and "explosion" on the list? articles like this should present a vertical list of the 68 words, in alphabetical order. i can handle it!
when those chevy cobalts suddenly switched off their ignitions at speed, taking out the power steering and brakes, the cobalt pretty much fell back on newtonian ballistics, and a lot of people, many of them younger, inexperienced drivers, died. is "kamikaze" on the list?
posted by bruce at 8:33 AM on May 19, 2014
were "fire" and "explosion" on the list? articles like this should present a vertical list of the 68 words, in alphabetical order. i can handle it!
when those chevy cobalts suddenly switched off their ignitions at speed, taking out the power steering and brakes, the cobalt pretty much fell back on newtonian ballistics, and a lot of people, many of them younger, inexperienced drivers, died. is "kamikaze" on the list?
posted by bruce at 8:33 AM on May 19, 2014
Also, is it just me, or is "rolling sarcophagus" kind of appealing? Like those old Aurora monster car kits -- you know, Dracula's Dragster and the Godzilla Go-Cart?
I could totally see this happening back during Tut-Mania in the 70s.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:33 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I could totally see this happening back during Tut-Mania in the 70s.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:33 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
GenjiandProust: Oh, no, I meant the Aurora model kits -- here's Godzilla's Go-Cart
That is awesome!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
That is awesome!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think we all owe Courtney Love an apology because, judging by the list, GM may have some explaining to do with respect to Kurt Cobain's death.
Seriously, can anyone think of why GM would put 'Cobain' on their list? Maybe they were afraid of Chevy Cobalt puns?
posted by crashlanding at 8:35 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Seriously, can anyone think of why GM would put 'Cobain' on their list? Maybe they were afraid of Chevy Cobalt puns?
posted by crashlanding at 8:35 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
30,000+ people were killed in car accidents in the US last year. 2.3 Million people were injured. Quibbling about memo language and ignition faults is really besides the point when you are choosing to live in Death Race 2014.
posted by srboisvert at 8:37 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by srboisvert at 8:37 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ah, here it is -- The Mummy's Chariot -- the the Polar Lights recast (although they also released some as boxes only). Anyway, it is a chariot, not a sarcophagus, so this was entirely a derail, and I am very sorry.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:39 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:39 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
that's a mighty fine corporate apologia you just handed us, srboisvert. we're also quibbling about the failure to disclose a known, potentially lethal defect to the market, the failure to disclose the potential liability to the bankruptcy court (which would result in it not being discharged, if it were your bankruptcy or mine), and the failure to save lives by doing a recall for the two-dollar fix, but carry on, o saint of no cars.
posted by bruce at 8:42 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by bruce at 8:42 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
The damning part is the $35 million fine, which is nothing to this company. This other stuff is just the comedy routine that helps GM return to business as usual.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:43 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:43 AM on May 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
I would also like to note that with the piece from the previous episode on climate change and now the bit last night on GM, John Oliver and his writers hit their stride pretty fast and don't appear that they're going to let up.
posted by Ber at 8:48 AM on May 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Ber at 8:48 AM on May 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
People have to get to work, srboisvert; there is no safe way for me to bike my kid to school and then get myself to work. Unless you're suggesting an 8-year-old is safer on his bike on the highway than in a car.
Getting rid of cars is not an option for most people, full stop. Until we have transporter beams or every job can be done from home or we're all living post-scarcity on our government stipend, it's going to be this way, and even then, I suspect some people will need cars at some point.
posted by emjaybee at 8:48 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Getting rid of cars is not an option for most people, full stop. Until we have transporter beams or every job can be done from home or we're all living post-scarcity on our government stipend, it's going to be this way, and even then, I suspect some people will need cars at some point.
posted by emjaybee at 8:48 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Detroit News has the full report, including the list of "Judgement Words" to avoid. They aren't so much banned, as they are words to avoid in reports and presentations. Of course those "soft shoulds" may be harder than the description suggests.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on May 19, 2014
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on May 19, 2014
Employees were asked to think how they would feel if something they were writing was reported in a major newspaper.
Yes, worry about the report showing up in the paper, not the succession of fatal accidents caused by your inability to fix the problem in a timely manner.
posted by arcticseal at 8:54 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yes, worry about the report showing up in the paper, not the succession of fatal accidents caused by your inability to fix the problem in a timely manner.
posted by arcticseal at 8:54 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm wondering why my normal-sized car is "small." SUV the norm now?
According to the idiots that park at my local shopping plaza an SUV is a compact.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
According to the idiots that park at my local shopping plaza an SUV is a compact.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Defects happen, mistakes happen. Customers understand that I think. They're certainly going to pay more in the long term by covering it up.
Yeah, the coverup itself is usually worse for the company than whatever it was they were trying to hide, at least when it comes to customer perception. I listened to a radio story the other day (can't find a link to it now), that basically said the more upfront car companies are about their defects, the more confident customers feel about their cars. A recall notice basically says that the manufacturer is on top of it.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 9:06 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the coverup itself is usually worse for the company than whatever it was they were trying to hide, at least when it comes to customer perception. I listened to a radio story the other day (can't find a link to it now), that basically said the more upfront car companies are about their defects, the more confident customers feel about their cars. A recall notice basically says that the manufacturer is on top of it.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 9:06 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
His coverage of the botched execution was also very good
posted by angrycat at 9:11 AM on May 19, 2014
posted by angrycat at 9:11 AM on May 19, 2014
"Serious" and "problem" are on the list too. Daaamn.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 9:33 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 9:33 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I wonder if the first people to use words like "death-trap" did so because they knew management would ignore weaker language, and they wanted to do their actual jobs and design a safe, reliable product rather than pretend everything was fine when it wasn't in order to meet a production schedule and lock in a quarterly bonus.
I wonder if most of these banned words came from the same few engineers who actually gave a damn and used increasingly baroque language because they were being ignored over and over again. It's possible these people were eventually forced out by management for refusing to be yes-persons. If so, did they wind up working at a competing manufacturer who actually valued their judgment and skill?
Perhaps GM self-selected, over the course of a decade or longer, to be a weak, innefectual company in order to protect middle management and project a glossy, unblemished image to taxpayers and investors. What other areas of their core business practices underwent a similar culling? Can this kind of corporate culture failure really be isolated to one small part of the business unit, or is it indicative of a cancer that has already metastasized and weakened other groups within GM?
Wondering is a far cry from knowing, of course! We need more, and better, muckraking journalists out there trying to make a name for themselves.
posted by jsturgill at 9:37 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
I wonder if most of these banned words came from the same few engineers who actually gave a damn and used increasingly baroque language because they were being ignored over and over again. It's possible these people were eventually forced out by management for refusing to be yes-persons. If so, did they wind up working at a competing manufacturer who actually valued their judgment and skill?
Perhaps GM self-selected, over the course of a decade or longer, to be a weak, innefectual company in order to protect middle management and project a glossy, unblemished image to taxpayers and investors. What other areas of their core business practices underwent a similar culling? Can this kind of corporate culture failure really be isolated to one small part of the business unit, or is it indicative of a cancer that has already metastasized and weakened other groups within GM?
Wondering is a far cry from knowing, of course! We need more, and better, muckraking journalists out there trying to make a name for themselves.
posted by jsturgill at 9:37 AM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
This is General Motors we're talking about. Quit whining about the switch when you're lucky that the stupid shitheap started up at all!
posted by dr_dank at 9:38 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by dr_dank at 9:38 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Michigan has to be the only place where one would think to use "Kevorkianesque" in speech. Barely even fits on a Scrabble board.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:47 AM on May 19, 2014
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:47 AM on May 19, 2014
Detroit News has the full report, including the list of "Judgement Words" to avoid. They aren't so much banned, as they are words to avoid in reports and presentations.
So, they're not to be used internally? That actually seems worse in my mind.
posted by JHarris at 9:47 AM on May 19, 2014
So, they're not to be used internally? That actually seems worse in my mind.
posted by JHarris at 9:47 AM on May 19, 2014
If you're an auto manufacturer, I guess you can always go Toyota's route.
Between my car ('09 Camry) and my wife's ('08 Highlander), we've received (and for some strange reason, continue to receive despite the fixes being done) so many notices, about two a week, regarding "safety repairs" for the gas pedal thing, the driver's side mat, switches, power windows, etc. that I no longer pay attention to "Safety Notices" from Toyota and letters just go in the trash without being opened.
If something "new" was discovered, they could say I had been notified, and it would be my fault for ignoring it.
Well played, Toyota.... well played.
I do love my Toyota, though... It has never let me down in 6 years. I want a '14 Venza next. Maybe play me some lottery!
posted by Debaser626 at 9:54 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Between my car ('09 Camry) and my wife's ('08 Highlander), we've received (and for some strange reason, continue to receive despite the fixes being done) so many notices, about two a week, regarding "safety repairs" for the gas pedal thing, the driver's side mat, switches, power windows, etc. that I no longer pay attention to "Safety Notices" from Toyota and letters just go in the trash without being opened.
If something "new" was discovered, they could say I had been notified, and it would be my fault for ignoring it.
Well played, Toyota.... well played.
I do love my Toyota, though... It has never let me down in 6 years. I want a '14 Venza next. Maybe play me some lottery!
posted by Debaser626 at 9:54 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I DO appreciate the aggressive pursuit of safety but my Honda has gotten recall notices for all kinds of obscure things. One was, as I recall, that if you let snow sit on the arm rest where the power window controls were, it would eventually melt and there was a chance the water would get into the wiring and short-circuit things which would potentially be a safety hazard because it might've caused a fire in certain rare instances.
I looked outside where it was both 105 degrees and June at the time and decided I'd just let them fix it next time I had it in.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:58 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I looked outside where it was both 105 degrees and June at the time and decided I'd just let them fix it next time I had it in.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:58 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Of course there is the "we get sued twice a day so assume every word you write will be examined by a jury" factor.
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion. I'm sure those words are barred because if they were written, they would be required by law to take action immediately and they didn't want to do that, and if they were written and they didn't, there would be proof that they were ignoring the law.
Look to pharma and the federally-regulated adverse event reporting requirements to see how this works when taken to its logical (and appropriate) extreme. Perhaps we just need similar warnings in direct-to-consumer advertising of automobiles: "Some users of Chevy Cobalt have reported unexpected losses of power or control related to limited-scope manufacturing defects, some resulting in death. Users should not drive Chevy Cobalt without checking ignition components for improper wear before each drive."
posted by Pliskie at 10:00 AM on May 19, 2014
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion. I'm sure those words are barred because if they were written, they would be required by law to take action immediately and they didn't want to do that, and if they were written and they didn't, there would be proof that they were ignoring the law.
Look to pharma and the federally-regulated adverse event reporting requirements to see how this works when taken to its logical (and appropriate) extreme. Perhaps we just need similar warnings in direct-to-consumer advertising of automobiles: "Some users of Chevy Cobalt have reported unexpected losses of power or control related to limited-scope manufacturing defects, some resulting in death. Users should not drive Chevy Cobalt without checking ignition components for improper wear before each drive."
posted by Pliskie at 10:00 AM on May 19, 2014
I'd think ordering the suppression of "safety, serious, and problem" from engineering reports would constitute criminal reckless endangerment. We need to figure out a way to come down hard on the creation of deliberate ignorance in a corporation to shield from liability or the side effects will get more and more awful.
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:14 AM on May 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:14 AM on May 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
I'd think it would take a semi-conscious lawyer approximately ten seconds to successfully argue that "not performing as designed" was legally equivalent to "defective"
An air-bag is inflating a millisecond later than spec and the gas temperature in the bag is 2 celsius degrees lower than spec. That is "not performing as designed", but may fall into the category of "acceptable". An air bag that fails to deploy is also "not performing as designed", but is entirely unacceptable.
Similarly, an engine that lasts more than 300,000 miles without burning oil is also "not performing as designed".
"not performing as designed" is ambiguous as it doesn't indicate the sign or magnitude of difference from spec. In other words: completely useless except as a smokescreen.
Compare "safe up to 30% OR MORE!"
posted by plinth at 10:49 AM on May 19, 2014
An air-bag is inflating a millisecond later than spec and the gas temperature in the bag is 2 celsius degrees lower than spec. That is "not performing as designed", but may fall into the category of "acceptable". An air bag that fails to deploy is also "not performing as designed", but is entirely unacceptable.
Similarly, an engine that lasts more than 300,000 miles without burning oil is also "not performing as designed".
"not performing as designed" is ambiguous as it doesn't indicate the sign or magnitude of difference from spec. In other words: completely useless except as a smokescreen.
Compare "safe up to 30% OR MORE!"
posted by plinth at 10:49 AM on May 19, 2014
Moral of the story: If you want GM to give a shit about your safety, buy nothing less than a Cadillac.
posted by tommasz at 10:58 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 10:58 AM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm wondering why my normal-sized car is "small." SUV the norm now?
It's actually defined by federal regulations based on interior volume. ยง 600.315-08 (There are also unofficial size/type classes not in that definition.)
According to the idiots that park at my local shopping plaza an SUV is a compact.
There is such a thing as a "compact SUV" (e.g. Ford Escape) but I'm not sure they're really the size that, say, a "compact only" parking space was designed around.
posted by dhartung at 10:59 AM on May 19, 2014
It's actually defined by federal regulations based on interior volume. ยง 600.315-08 (There are also unofficial size/type classes not in that definition.)
According to the idiots that park at my local shopping plaza an SUV is a compact.
There is such a thing as a "compact SUV" (e.g. Ford Escape) but I'm not sure they're really the size that, say, a "compact only" parking space was designed around.
posted by dhartung at 10:59 AM on May 19, 2014
I worked at a large server manufacturer where the word "fire" was banned and replaced with "thermal event with visual indications."
posted by redyaky at 11:16 AM on May 19, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by redyaky at 11:16 AM on May 19, 2014 [14 favorites]
There is such a thing as a "compact SUV" (e.g. Ford Escape) but I'm not sure they're really the size that, say, a "compact only" parking space was designed around.
This article is specific to the city of Hawthorne in SoCal but illustrates the problem with compact parking spaces, at least around these parts.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:26 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
This article is specific to the city of Hawthorne in SoCal but illustrates the problem with compact parking spaces, at least around these parts.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:26 AM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I worked at a large server manufacturer where the word "fire" was banned and replaced with "thermal event with visual indications."
What the hell kind of servers were you making?
posted by empath at 12:54 PM on May 19, 2014
What the hell kind of servers were you making?
posted by empath at 12:54 PM on May 19, 2014
Yeah, the coverup itself is usually worse for the company than whatever it was they were trying to hide, at least when it comes to customer perception.
Your thinking may be flawed, as you only know about the failed cover ups.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:50 PM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
Your thinking may be flawed, as you only know about the failed cover ups.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:50 PM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
I could have sworn that one of the clips in Oliver's report had some music from The Professional playing in the background. I imagine GM sending Leon around to encourage people not to sue them.
posted by homunculus at 2:12 PM on May 19, 2014
posted by homunculus at 2:12 PM on May 19, 2014
I was going to list a few joke-words and phrases that I made up, but then "Kevorkianesque" showed up about halfway into TFA, and now I just can't even.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:15 PM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:15 PM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
My question is - were people using phrases like "rolling sarcophagus" internally, or was there some kind of brainstorming exercise involved with drawing up the list? Either way, it's mind-boggling, really...
posted by blacksmithtb at 2:50 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by blacksmithtb at 2:50 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's relatively tame compared to some of the things I've seen in bored people's bug reports over the years.
When you've been wading through the same shit day after day after day, coming up with a new florid description for it is sometimes the only entertainment you have left.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:29 PM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
When you've been wading through the same shit day after day after day, coming up with a new florid description for it is sometimes the only entertainment you have left.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:29 PM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
>Employees were asked to think how they would feel if something they were writing was reported in a major newspaper.
Yes, worry about the report showing up in the paper, not the succession of fatal accidents caused by your inability to fix the problem in a timely manner.
They're not mutually exclusive.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:31 PM on May 19, 2014
Yes, worry about the report showing up in the paper, not the succession of fatal accidents caused by your inability to fix the problem in a timely manner.
They're not mutually exclusive.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:31 PM on May 19, 2014
>Of course there is the "we get sued twice a day so assume every word you write will be examined by a jury" factor.
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion. I'm sure those words are barred because if they were written, they would be required by law to take action immediately and they didn't want to do that, and if they were written and they didn't, there would be proof that they were ignoring the law.
Those two, yes. I'm pretty sure the law doesn't cover Kevorkianesque.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:34 PM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
The moment you discover a "safety issue" or "defect", you are legally required to take certain actions in a timely fashion. I'm sure those words are barred because if they were written, they would be required by law to take action immediately and they didn't want to do that, and if they were written and they didn't, there would be proof that they were ignoring the law.
Those two, yes. I'm pretty sure the law doesn't cover Kevorkianesque.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:34 PM on May 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
>Employees were asked to think how they would feel if something they were writing was reported in a major newspaper.
I worked at a large brand name company. When I told them that a problem/issue might cost them 10-50 million dollars they didn't blink or care. When I suggested that it might make the front page of the new york times, they jumped.
posted by el io at 3:47 PM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I worked at a large brand name company. When I told them that a problem/issue might cost them 10-50 million dollars they didn't blink or care. When I suggested that it might make the front page of the new york times, they jumped.
posted by el io at 3:47 PM on May 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm more than a bit annoyed that they cockteased everyone with this list, then didn't just post the actual damn list. seriously?
posted by emptythought at 4:00 PM on May 19, 2014
posted by emptythought at 4:00 PM on May 19, 2014
"Rolling sarcophagus" reminds me of this guy.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:46 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:46 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
> "Why walk through the valley of the shadow of death when you can drive?" is a fucking great slogan.
Yeah that and "Driving a GM car is so smooth, it's like butter... and you're toast!" had me applauding my computer screen.
posted by toofuture at 7:08 PM on May 19, 2014
Yeah that and "Driving a GM car is so smooth, it's like butter... and you're toast!" had me applauding my computer screen.
posted by toofuture at 7:08 PM on May 19, 2014
That's relatively tame compared to some of the things I've seen in bored people's bug reports over the years.
Along those lines, my commit notes, which, along with the code, were supposed to be read by QA at the end of each week, included the Portal song lyrics. No one ever said a word.
I can totally see how those phrases might come about. It's singing into the void, knowing no one is listening.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:19 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Along those lines, my commit notes, which, along with the code, were supposed to be read by QA at the end of each week, included the Portal song lyrics. No one ever said a word.
I can totally see how those phrases might come about. It's singing into the void, knowing no one is listening.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:19 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
People have to get to work, srboisvert; there is no safe way for me to bike my kid to school and then get myself to work. Unless you're suggesting an 8-year-old is safer on his bike on the highway than in a car.
Well, that's the point, isn't it? Design a faulty ignition that kills one person in ten million, and it's national news, with lawsuits, recalls, and eventually repairs. Design a transportation system which kills one in ten thousand, and which fails to allow a kid to get himself to school, and you get a shrug of the shoulders because that's just the way things are.
posted by alexei at 8:31 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Well, that's the point, isn't it? Design a faulty ignition that kills one person in ten million, and it's national news, with lawsuits, recalls, and eventually repairs. Design a transportation system which kills one in ten thousand, and which fails to allow a kid to get himself to school, and you get a shrug of the shoulders because that's just the way things are.
posted by alexei at 8:31 PM on May 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Along those lines, my commit notes, which, along with the code, were supposed to be read by QA at the end of each week, included the Portal song lyrics. No one ever said a word.
Heh. I usually put at least one Purple Monkey Dishwasher into my technical documents just to see if the reviewers catch them. There are a surprisingly large number of functional and design specifications at various companies with those words still in them...
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:18 PM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
Heh. I usually put at least one Purple Monkey Dishwasher into my technical documents just to see if the reviewers catch them. There are a surprisingly large number of functional and design specifications at various companies with those words still in them...
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:18 PM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
That's relatively tame compared to some of the things I've seen in bored people's bug reports over the years.
When you've been wading through the same shit day after day after day, coming up with a new florid description for it is sometimes the only entertainment you have left.
I suspect this is how it happened. (Although "safety?" That one's a little hard to defend)
So I work with radioactive materials, reactors, that kind of thing. Describing a minor spill or problem anywhere the general public might eventually see it (and we don't intentionally hide anything) using the words "Chernobyl" or "Fukushima" is the opposite of helpful. Better to stick to words with actual concrete meanings, not hyperbole.
posted by ctmf at 7:25 AM on May 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
When you've been wading through the same shit day after day after day, coming up with a new florid description for it is sometimes the only entertainment you have left.
I suspect this is how it happened. (Although "safety?" That one's a little hard to defend)
So I work with radioactive materials, reactors, that kind of thing. Describing a minor spill or problem anywhere the general public might eventually see it (and we don't intentionally hide anything) using the words "Chernobyl" or "Fukushima" is the opposite of helpful. Better to stick to words with actual concrete meanings, not hyperbole.
posted by ctmf at 7:25 AM on May 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
You wouldn't believe.Which car company do you work for?
A major one.posted by lon_star at 8:11 AM on May 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Well, I would at least test drive the new GM Sarcophagus of Death.
Missed marketing opportunity.
posted by bystander at 8:52 PM on May 20, 2014
Missed marketing opportunity.
posted by bystander at 8:52 PM on May 20, 2014
GM Recalls: How General Motors Silenced a Whistle-Blower
posted by homunculus at 1:08 PM on June 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 1:08 PM on June 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
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The WotC update of Tomb of Horrors sounds way more unfair than the original.
posted by sgranade at 7:50 AM on May 19, 2014 [10 favorites]