Cakes and Ale and Richard III
August 17, 2014 3:57 PM Subscribe
New analysis on Richard III's bones reveal the richer diet available to a king, as well as his drinking habits.
Did they recover any of the royal coprolites?
posted by Captain l'escalier at 4:24 PM on August 17, 2014
posted by Captain l'escalier at 4:24 PM on August 17, 2014
Did they recover any of the royal coprolites?
All left behind on Bosworth Field, I expect.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:38 PM on August 17, 2014 [6 favorites]
All left behind on Bosworth Field, I expect.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:38 PM on August 17, 2014 [6 favorites]
Three Liters of wine a day?Wine and ale were generally weaker back then, as people drank quite a lot of it. Mead, cider and ale was an important source of calories for the labourers etc. Plus, you know, it tastes good and makes a change from bread! If you wanted the strong stuff to get drunk on, you went with drinks like godale (strong beer, basically).
Lightweight.
Note, despite the common myth, they drank plenty of water back then too - towns etc were founded near sources of clean water, and they knew enough to stay away from slimy and smelly water, and put the tanners etc downstream of the drinking supplies. In bigger towns/cities, you'd have water carriers bringing you your days supply of fresh(ish) water.
Wine was usually expensive, and though there were English vineyards, the best wines were imported from germany and greece and the like - so while the artisans et al could afford a glass of rough english plonk, the quality wines were pretty much reserved for the wealthy nobility. Along with swans and other weird expensive shit*, basically because they could.
Even so, at 3 litres a day I bet his liver was not in a great state!
* no, not including coprolites
posted by ArkhanJG at 5:01 PM on August 17, 2014 [16 favorites]
He spent all his riches on ale and horse?
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 5:06 PM on August 17, 2014
posted by Buttons Bellbottom at 5:06 PM on August 17, 2014
I'm interested in the very last line of the second article, about the body double who's been testing his armour.
posted by wilful at 5:17 PM on August 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by wilful at 5:17 PM on August 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
wilful: "I'm interested in the very last line of the second article, about the body double who's been testing his armour."
Yes, that caught my eye, too. How did they find him?
posted by gingerbeer at 5:21 PM on August 17, 2014
Yes, that caught my eye, too. How did they find him?
posted by gingerbeer at 5:21 PM on August 17, 2014
Does swan even taste good, or is it just something you eat because you are the goddamn King?
posted by emjaybee at 5:22 PM on August 17, 2014
posted by emjaybee at 5:22 PM on August 17, 2014
Metafilter: Swan, egret, heron.
Also... JFC @ the thinly-veiled racist garbage on the Independent article's comments section
posted by slater at 5:23 PM on August 17, 2014
Also... JFC @ the thinly-veiled racist garbage on the Independent article's comments section
posted by slater at 5:23 PM on August 17, 2014
Another illustration of the extreme differences that diet made back then that I was reminded of while reading Bring up the Bodies: Average male height in 16th century England: 5'5". Height of Henry VIII: 6'2". Assuming a standard deviation back then of a bit less than the current 3 inches, that would be like having a 6'10" (and 400+ lb) ruler today.
posted by chortly at 5:27 PM on August 17, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by chortly at 5:27 PM on August 17, 2014 [9 favorites]
Does swan even taste good, or is it just something you eat because you are the goddamn King?
Well Goose and duck are pretty amazing so swan should be good too.
But there's only one way to find out. Gentlemen, We must steal Her Magesty's Swans.
posted by The Whelk at 5:32 PM on August 17, 2014 [10 favorites]
Well Goose and duck are pretty amazing so swan should be good too.
But there's only one way to find out. Gentlemen, We must steal Her Magesty's Swans.
posted by The Whelk at 5:32 PM on August 17, 2014 [10 favorites]
That Channel 4 documentary sounds very interesting, and I'm also curious about the guy who doubles for Richard III. Does anybody have a link that works in the US?
posted by Quietgal at 5:38 PM on August 17, 2014
posted by Quietgal at 5:38 PM on August 17, 2014
Food in the 15th Century states that as Water was often unsafe ale/beer could comprise up to 20% of a peasants caloric intake.
For those further up the social scale - of the average 12-14,000 tuns of wine exported from Bordeaux annually in the fifteenth century, three-quarters of it was imported to England.
Wine accounted for a third of the value of England’s import trade as a whole during this period. (pdf)
posted by adamvasco at 5:41 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
For those further up the social scale - of the average 12-14,000 tuns of wine exported from Bordeaux annually in the fifteenth century, three-quarters of it was imported to England.
Wine accounted for a third of the value of England’s import trade as a whole during this period. (pdf)
posted by adamvasco at 5:41 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Sure... Sure... But did they find out if he warged into his sword before he died?
posted by drezdn at 5:47 PM on August 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 5:47 PM on August 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
Apparently swans can be quite yummy, if eaten while they're young: On Eating Swans
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:52 PM on August 17, 2014
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:52 PM on August 17, 2014
I was told there would be cakes and ale.
posted by angerbot at 6:03 PM on August 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by angerbot at 6:03 PM on August 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
...except the Silly Sisters' version, which I couldn't find on the tube.
posted by moonmilk at 6:06 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by moonmilk at 6:06 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Let's see- final three years of life:
-Fights war with Scotland
-Murders his nephews
-Seizes the throne and forces Parliament to confirm accession
-Faces two rebellions within the space of two years
I think I'd want a fucking drink, too.
But there's only one way to find out. Gentlemen, We must steal Her Magesty's Swans.
HUZZAH!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:21 PM on August 17, 2014
-Fights war with Scotland
-Murders his nephews
-Seizes the throne and forces Parliament to confirm accession
-Faces two rebellions within the space of two years
I think I'd want a fucking drink, too.
But there's only one way to find out. Gentlemen, We must steal Her Magesty's Swans.
HUZZAH!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:21 PM on August 17, 2014
Assuming a standard deviation back then of a bit less than the current 3 inches, that would be like having a 6'10" (and 400+ lb) ruler today.
Brian Shaw for King of America!!
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:36 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Brian Shaw for King of America!!
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:36 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, that caught my eye, too. How did they find him?
Secret breeding program, same as the ongoing efforts to clone King Arthur. (The missing DNA can just be replaced with bits of Mordred, what could possibly go wrong?)
posted by No-sword at 8:33 PM on August 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
Secret breeding program, same as the ongoing efforts to clone King Arthur. (The missing DNA can just be replaced with bits of Mordred, what could possibly go wrong?)
posted by No-sword at 8:33 PM on August 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
Does swan even taste good
My grandfather used to talk about hunting trumpeter swans, before they became endangered. He related that they were pretty good eatin'.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:50 PM on August 17, 2014
My grandfather used to talk about hunting trumpeter swans, before they became endangered. He related that they were pretty good eatin'.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:50 PM on August 17, 2014
But there's only one way to find out. Gentlemen, We must steal Her Magesty's Swans.
"I won't be able to give time of death until I've looked at the stomach contents, but these distinctive ankle wounds can only mean one thing: this man was mauled to death by a pack of feral corgis!"
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:47 PM on August 17, 2014 [4 favorites]
"I won't be able to give time of death until I've looked at the stomach contents, but these distinctive ankle wounds can only mean one thing: this man was mauled to death by a pack of feral corgis!"
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:47 PM on August 17, 2014 [4 favorites]
That kind of eatin'll put heron your chest.
posted by univac at 10:12 PM on August 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by univac at 10:12 PM on August 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
That pun was such a turkey, you'll have to duck. [chucks a tomato]
posted by five fresh fish at 11:50 PM on August 17, 2014
posted by five fresh fish at 11:50 PM on August 17, 2014
Wine and ale were generally weaker back then, as people drank quite a lot of it.
This is true, but the researchers aren't reading contemporary historical accounts of the amount of wine he drank--they're analyzing his bones. I'm pretty sure that when they say that the chemical composition of his bones indicates that he's drinking up to three liters of wine per day they're working off data that was based on the alcohol content of modern wine, not medieval wine. "This is the kind of effect we'd expect to see in someone who drank from one bottle to three liters of modern wine per day" is, in effect, the claim being advanced. It may be that he had to drink six liters of medieval wine to produce that effect, but that's neither here nor there.
posted by yoink at 6:15 AM on August 18, 2014
This is true, but the researchers aren't reading contemporary historical accounts of the amount of wine he drank--they're analyzing his bones. I'm pretty sure that when they say that the chemical composition of his bones indicates that he's drinking up to three liters of wine per day they're working off data that was based on the alcohol content of modern wine, not medieval wine. "This is the kind of effect we'd expect to see in someone who drank from one bottle to three liters of modern wine per day" is, in effect, the claim being advanced. It may be that he had to drink six liters of medieval wine to produce that effect, but that's neither here nor there.
posted by yoink at 6:15 AM on August 18, 2014
From what I'm getting from the Independent comments, there is a vocal contingent of people who think it is unremarkable that we can reasonably divine the dietary habits of a man who died more than 500 years ago using his bones. That's the sort of sorcery that would have gotten someone burned at the stake as witch back in Richard's day.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:37 AM on August 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 6:37 AM on August 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the archaeologists that are analyzing the bones of a dead king of England aren't overlooking the differences between medieval and modern wine.
posted by Ham Snadwich at 6:45 AM on August 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Ham Snadwich at 6:45 AM on August 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the archaeologists that are analyzing the bones of a dead king of England aren't overlooking the differences between medieval and modern wine.
It's not a matter of 'overlooking' anything--it's simply that the alcohol content of medieval wine is utterly irrelevant if all you're trying to convey to a modern audience is roughly how much alcohol the man was drinking. The very measures they offer (a "bottle"--meaning a standard 750ml modern bottle--and three "liters") would have been meaningless to Richard's contemporaries.
This would be a different matter if we were looking at textual evidence (a medieval account in which we were told that the King drank a gallon of wine every day, say). Then you'd need to say "and, of course, wine at that time typically had about N% alcohol content...") But when all you're doing is looking at his bone composition and you're saying "here's how much alcohol you'd need to drink in order to get this result" you'd obviously want to use modern wine as your reference so as not to mislead a contemporary audience.
posted by yoink at 7:01 AM on August 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's not a matter of 'overlooking' anything--it's simply that the alcohol content of medieval wine is utterly irrelevant if all you're trying to convey to a modern audience is roughly how much alcohol the man was drinking. The very measures they offer (a "bottle"--meaning a standard 750ml modern bottle--and three "liters") would have been meaningless to Richard's contemporaries.
This would be a different matter if we were looking at textual evidence (a medieval account in which we were told that the King drank a gallon of wine every day, say). Then you'd need to say "and, of course, wine at that time typically had about N% alcohol content...") But when all you're doing is looking at his bone composition and you're saying "here's how much alcohol you'd need to drink in order to get this result" you'd obviously want to use modern wine as your reference so as not to mislead a contemporary audience.
posted by yoink at 7:01 AM on August 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
The paper from the Journal of Archaeological Science. It's open access, so anyone can read it.
Apparently,
His oxygen isotope values also rise towards the end of his life and as we know he did not relocate during this time, we suggest the changes could be brought about by increased wine consumption. This is the first suggestion of wine affecting the oxygen isotope composition of an individual and thus has wider implications for isotope-based palaeodietary and migration reconstructions.
Which is interesting.
Here's how the case for the wine consumption is built up:
There is a shift in oxygen isotope composition that would usually be considered evidence of moving from the East to the West of England (where it rains more).
As with the increase in nitrogen isotope composition, the significant (>±0.5‰) increase in Richard III's oxygen isotope composition (+1.5‰) in the last few years of his life also requires explanation. His rib bone records a δ18Op value of 18.5‰ which places him within the British populations residing in high rainfall areas (west coast) during the last ∼2–5 years of his life (Evans et al., 2012).
But we know that isn't the case...
If this was an unknown Medieval individual, the data would lead us to suggest that he had migrated to a different area in the last few years of his life. The great advantage of knowing who the skeleton belongs too is we know for certain that this was not the case and thus there must be another explanation.
Maybe due to ingesting more water that has been cooked or heated (this raises the isotope ratio)?
Changes in skeletal δ18O that are not related to a change in drinking water source have been suggested before. The alteration of drinking water δ18O can occur during the cooking process and also through the brewing of beer (Brettell et al., 2012).
No, that wouldn't shift it enough.
Thus we would expect his rib δ18O drinking water value to be ∼ −8‰, converted to a drinking water value using Daux et al. (2008) and alteration of this value by brewing or stewing could only expect to shift it by +1‰ (Brettell et al., 2012). Richard's rib δ18ODW value of −5.2‰ is shifted by ∼ +3‰ from what we would expect.
Wine? They compared isotopic ratios from modern French and Italian wines and determined what the ratio between French Wine and East England drinking water would have to be to explain the ratio.
As wine is made from grape juice rather than water, there is a significant δ18O water fractionation in the vine. We do not have access to medieval wine to analyse, so in order to determine the likely range of δ18O values we analysed four modern French wines (Table 3) which give an average δ18O value of +2.7 ± 0.9‰ (1SD, n = 4) and these are in line with the large database of modern Italian wines, produced between 2000 and 2010, which range in δ18O composition between −1.3 and +8.9‰ (n = 4,000, 95%) ( Dordevic et al., 2013). A simple mixing equation model constructed between drinking water typical of eastern England (−8‰) and the French wine average value (+2.7‰) suggests that Richard's δ18ODW value of −5.2‰ could be achieved by deriving ∼26% of his oxygen from wine, and the rest from local water. (my emphasis)
Nowhere in the paper is there an amount of wine mentioned, all the paper says is that the oxygen isotope ratio is explained if 26% of his fluid intake was from wine and the rest from water in the East of England.
I have to admit, that makes three litres of wine seem quite puzzling. Are they saying that he ingested a total of 12 litres of fluids a day? Normal total water intake is something between 2 and 3 litres a day. I must be misunderstanding something because that is nuts. Some random googling on medieval wine consumption shows a few places giving typical wine consumption of several litres though, so this is clearly coming from somewhere.
posted by atrazine at 9:24 AM on August 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Apparently,
His oxygen isotope values also rise towards the end of his life and as we know he did not relocate during this time, we suggest the changes could be brought about by increased wine consumption. This is the first suggestion of wine affecting the oxygen isotope composition of an individual and thus has wider implications for isotope-based palaeodietary and migration reconstructions.
Which is interesting.
Here's how the case for the wine consumption is built up:
There is a shift in oxygen isotope composition that would usually be considered evidence of moving from the East to the West of England (where it rains more).
As with the increase in nitrogen isotope composition, the significant (>±0.5‰) increase in Richard III's oxygen isotope composition (+1.5‰) in the last few years of his life also requires explanation. His rib bone records a δ18Op value of 18.5‰ which places him within the British populations residing in high rainfall areas (west coast) during the last ∼2–5 years of his life (Evans et al., 2012).
But we know that isn't the case...
If this was an unknown Medieval individual, the data would lead us to suggest that he had migrated to a different area in the last few years of his life. The great advantage of knowing who the skeleton belongs too is we know for certain that this was not the case and thus there must be another explanation.
Maybe due to ingesting more water that has been cooked or heated (this raises the isotope ratio)?
Changes in skeletal δ18O that are not related to a change in drinking water source have been suggested before. The alteration of drinking water δ18O can occur during the cooking process and also through the brewing of beer (Brettell et al., 2012).
No, that wouldn't shift it enough.
Thus we would expect his rib δ18O drinking water value to be ∼ −8‰, converted to a drinking water value using Daux et al. (2008) and alteration of this value by brewing or stewing could only expect to shift it by +1‰ (Brettell et al., 2012). Richard's rib δ18ODW value of −5.2‰ is shifted by ∼ +3‰ from what we would expect.
Wine? They compared isotopic ratios from modern French and Italian wines and determined what the ratio between French Wine and East England drinking water would have to be to explain the ratio.
As wine is made from grape juice rather than water, there is a significant δ18O water fractionation in the vine. We do not have access to medieval wine to analyse, so in order to determine the likely range of δ18O values we analysed four modern French wines (Table 3) which give an average δ18O value of +2.7 ± 0.9‰ (1SD, n = 4) and these are in line with the large database of modern Italian wines, produced between 2000 and 2010, which range in δ18O composition between −1.3 and +8.9‰ (n = 4,000, 95%) ( Dordevic et al., 2013). A simple mixing equation model constructed between drinking water typical of eastern England (−8‰) and the French wine average value (+2.7‰) suggests that Richard's δ18ODW value of −5.2‰ could be achieved by deriving ∼26% of his oxygen from wine, and the rest from local water. (my emphasis)
Nowhere in the paper is there an amount of wine mentioned, all the paper says is that the oxygen isotope ratio is explained if 26% of his fluid intake was from wine and the rest from water in the East of England.
I have to admit, that makes three litres of wine seem quite puzzling. Are they saying that he ingested a total of 12 litres of fluids a day? Normal total water intake is something between 2 and 3 litres a day. I must be misunderstanding something because that is nuts. Some random googling on medieval wine consumption shows a few places giving typical wine consumption of several litres though, so this is clearly coming from somewhere.
posted by atrazine at 9:24 AM on August 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I don't think the 26% of his oxygen from wine section suggests that it's directly 26% of his fluid intake-- it's about the composition of what he's drinking, though I could be misreading that. (Was mixing wine a part of medieval society? Maybe that could account for the numbers involved?)
The way the Independent phrased it, they seemed to have either talked with the author of the study or have drawn the quotes directly from the documentary, which is probably where the confusing bottle/liter description comes from, since there's definitely nothing in the paper (which is really interesting and pretty easy to read!) that quantifies it like that-- this is pretty much it:
Uncertainty about rib turnover rates and the drinking water conversion means that this value is a crude approximation, however it does serve to give some sense of the possible quantities of wine involved. This contrasts with the δ18Op composition of his femur, which predominantly represents the time before he was King, and gives a local δ18ODW equivalent value of −8.2‰, typical of eastern England groundwater values
What's even more fascinating to me is that this is a completely new application of isotopic analysis: This is the first example where the intake of wine has been suggested as having an impact on the oxygen isotope composition of an individual and thus has wider implications for isotope-based archaeology. Which is very interesting and if substantiated could be really interesting for looking at other communities throughout history, especially in Britain (well, as long as they left useful bones behind.)
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:54 AM on August 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
The way the Independent phrased it, they seemed to have either talked with the author of the study or have drawn the quotes directly from the documentary, which is probably where the confusing bottle/liter description comes from, since there's definitely nothing in the paper (which is really interesting and pretty easy to read!) that quantifies it like that-- this is pretty much it:
Uncertainty about rib turnover rates and the drinking water conversion means that this value is a crude approximation, however it does serve to give some sense of the possible quantities of wine involved. This contrasts with the δ18Op composition of his femur, which predominantly represents the time before he was King, and gives a local δ18ODW equivalent value of −8.2‰, typical of eastern England groundwater values
What's even more fascinating to me is that this is a completely new application of isotopic analysis: This is the first example where the intake of wine has been suggested as having an impact on the oxygen isotope composition of an individual and thus has wider implications for isotope-based archaeology. Which is very interesting and if substantiated could be really interesting for looking at other communities throughout history, especially in Britain (well, as long as they left useful bones behind.)
posted by jetlagaddict at 9:54 AM on August 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think the 26% of his oxygen from wine section suggests that it's directly 26% of his fluid intake-- it's about the composition of what he's drinking, though I could be misreading that. (Was mixing wine a part of medieval society? Maybe that could account for the numbers involved?)
Maybe.
But adding together (0.26)*(+2.7%) + (0.74)*(-8%) comes out to -5.2%, which indicates that they're saying that the isotopic composition of his rib is the weighted average of just two sources, the wine and Eastern England drinking water.
Interesting background reading on oxygen isotope analysis in bone.
That source also indicates that more or less all of the oxygen incorporated into human bones comes from ingested water, whether that comes from local drinking water or somewhere else.
posted by atrazine at 1:04 AM on August 19, 2014
Maybe.
But adding together (0.26)*(+2.7%) + (0.74)*(-8%) comes out to -5.2%, which indicates that they're saying that the isotopic composition of his rib is the weighted average of just two sources, the wine and Eastern England drinking water.
Interesting background reading on oxygen isotope analysis in bone.
That source also indicates that more or less all of the oxygen incorporated into human bones comes from ingested water, whether that comes from local drinking water or somewhere else.
posted by atrazine at 1:04 AM on August 19, 2014
Slight late edit to my last comment - those should be parts per thousand (‰) signs, not percentage (%) signs.
posted by atrazine at 2:31 AM on August 19, 2014
posted by atrazine at 2:31 AM on August 19, 2014
Anybody in the UK see the doc? Peter Morwood sumarizes a bit of it in a Tumblr post.
posted by PussKillian at 10:26 AM on August 24, 2014
posted by PussKillian at 10:26 AM on August 24, 2014
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Lightweight.
posted by The Whelk at 4:01 PM on August 17, 2014 [1 favorite]