Your Mind Just Exploded Like a Blood Sausage
September 19, 2014 5:04 PM Subscribe
Wasteland 2 (previously), brought to life by the love of gamers everywhere, officially released today. A direct sequel to Wasteland from 1988 and a spiritual sibling to Fallout 1, 2, 3, and Vegas, it was developed through a Kickstarter project started by Brian Fargo. With an initial Kickstarter goal of $900,000, it quickly raised $2.9 million instead. Reviews have been pretty good.
I've not had a whole lot of time to play it so far, but that Kickstart backing has definitely turned out to be a good idea. Between this and Shadowrun Returns it's a good time for fans of old-school isometric RPGs.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:38 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:38 PM on September 19, 2014
That price tho. I have never seen a Kickstarter game that expensive, 40 euros on Steam. I don't say indie games should be cheaper per se... but still.
posted by bdz at 5:40 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by bdz at 5:40 PM on September 19, 2014
The game is huge and the devs are citing an 80+ hour play time, so $40 seems pretty good to me.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:41 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:41 PM on September 19, 2014
I hope this is good, but I really hope it sells well, and I REALLY hope Torment and Pillars of Eternity sell well. Getting infinity-engine type games again still seems too good to be true, even so far after their insane Kickstarters.
I have to admit that I am a little ehhhhh... about inExile, so I want to see what people think of this one. Also unlike the other games I don't really have any emotional attachment to Wasteland, although it's Fallout if you squint and I really like Fallout.
posted by selfnoise at 5:42 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have to admit that I am a little ehhhhh... about inExile, so I want to see what people think of this one. Also unlike the other games I don't really have any emotional attachment to Wasteland, although it's Fallout if you squint and I really like Fallout.
posted by selfnoise at 5:42 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
That price tho. I have never seen a Kickstarter game that expensive, 40 euros on Steam. I don't say indie games should be cheaper per se... but still.
This is kind of a big moment, though. Gaming really needs more studios willing to do mid-tier games... not little indie gems and not massive bland AAA souffles. Can studios make money on a game like this with depth and some production values? I hope so.
posted by selfnoise at 5:43 PM on September 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
This is kind of a big moment, though. Gaming really needs more studios willing to do mid-tier games... not little indie gems and not massive bland AAA souffles. Can studios make money on a game like this with depth and some production values? I hope so.
posted by selfnoise at 5:43 PM on September 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
I didn't play the original Wasteland, but this looks tempting.
In other news, as of yesterday Neal Stephenson's Kickstarter-funded CLANG, a historically accurate swordfighting game, has officially failed. It raised a little over $520,000 and after two years was only able to deliver a technology demo. Many backers are unhappy.
posted by jjwiseman at 5:50 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
In other news, as of yesterday Neal Stephenson's Kickstarter-funded CLANG, a historically accurate swordfighting game, has officially failed. It raised a little over $520,000 and after two years was only able to deliver a technology demo. Many backers are unhappy.
posted by jjwiseman at 5:50 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
The game is huge and the devs are citing an 80+ hour play time, so $40 seems pretty good to me.
It's a 9.4GB download, which I'm doing right now. It's certainly got something substantial under the hood, and hopefully it's assets related to a long play time.
posted by SpacemanStix at 6:20 PM on September 19, 2014
It's a 9.4GB download, which I'm doing right now. It's certainly got something substantial under the hood, and hopefully it's assets related to a long play time.
posted by SpacemanStix at 6:20 PM on September 19, 2014
I don't say indie games should be cheaper per se... but still.
I'm not sure why the size of the developer should be relevant. Shouldn't it be the quality and size of the game?
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on September 19, 2014
I'm not sure why the size of the developer should be relevant. Shouldn't it be the quality and size of the game?
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on September 19, 2014
My guys are terrible at fighting. Like TERRIBLE. The game is nice and hard and the Ranger difficulty so far!
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on September 19, 2014
jjwiseman: "In other news, as of yesterday Neal Stephenson's Kickstarter-funded CLANG, a historically accurate swordfighting game, has officially failed. It raised a little over $520,000 and after two years was only able to deliver a technology demo. Many backers are unhappy."
Wouldn't a historically accurate swordfight last all of 10 seconds and therefore not be very... fun?
Thanks for this post, on my way to Steam to buy it now.
posted by danny the boy at 6:35 PM on September 19, 2014
Wouldn't a historically accurate swordfight last all of 10 seconds and therefore not be very... fun?
Thanks for this post, on my way to Steam to buy it now.
posted by danny the boy at 6:35 PM on September 19, 2014
In terms of CLANG, I think maybe it was inexperience + launching the product in that brief holiday when it seemed like motion controls were the immediate future of games. Welcome to 2014! People are currently burning their Kinects in a big fire!
(or am I misremembering that? Wasn't this the one that used Wii-like controls?)
posted by selfnoise at 6:42 PM on September 19, 2014
(or am I misremembering that? Wasn't this the one that used Wii-like controls?)
posted by selfnoise at 6:42 PM on September 19, 2014
That price tho. I have never seen a Kickstarter game that expensive, 40 euros on Steam. I don't say indie games should be cheaper per se... but still.
That's because it's not a kickstarter game anymore. It's a 9GB steam game. When it was on kickstarter 2 years ago it was $15.
posted by thecjm at 6:54 PM on September 19, 2014
That's because it's not a kickstarter game anymore. It's a 9GB steam game. When it was on kickstarter 2 years ago it was $15.
posted by thecjm at 6:54 PM on September 19, 2014
Wouldn't a historically accurate swordfight last all of 10 seconds and therefore not be very... fun?
Bushido Blade was semi-accurate (No HP, wounded limbs were disabled or slowed, one hit kills if you got a sword run through you) and a lot of fun. Jockey for position, setup your opponent and then strike.
Just redeemed my Wasteland 2 key at GOG - time to download.
posted by dragoon at 6:58 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Bushido Blade was semi-accurate (No HP, wounded limbs were disabled or slowed, one hit kills if you got a sword run through you) and a lot of fun. Jockey for position, setup your opponent and then strike.
Just redeemed my Wasteland 2 key at GOG - time to download.
posted by dragoon at 6:58 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Woowww! I've been avoiding playing the beta to not get a bad first impression, despite backing it in the KS. I'm off to go download this. I think I also signed up for a copy to gift my brother, and an album...
posted by Canageek at 6:59 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by Canageek at 6:59 PM on September 19, 2014
That price tho. I have never seen a Kickstarter game that expensive, 40 euros on Steam. I don't say indie games should be cheaper per se... but still.
If that's too expensive, they'll sell it to you cheaper in a few months when it goes on sale. But don't begrudge them the cash from people who who think the game is worth that much to them to play right now.
posted by straight at 7:04 PM on September 19, 2014
If that's too expensive, they'll sell it to you cheaper in a few months when it goes on sale. But don't begrudge them the cash from people who who think the game is worth that much to them to play right now.
posted by straight at 7:04 PM on September 19, 2014
I didn't play the original Wasteland, but this looks tempting.
I love love love Fallout 1 & 2 but I had never played the original Wasteland either. Got a free copy as a backer of the new one and, boy oh gosh, there was significant improvement in tech and UI between Wasteland and Fallout. Like major generational change. The original Wasteland is very nearly a text adventure, in terms of both how little the graphics do and how much of the game is navigating text commands. I wish I had the fortitude to barrel through the wall of ooooold to get at the underlying game but I just wasn't up to it after the first hour or so.
Am playing Wasteland 2 right now and am only a couple hours in but feeling very, very good about the whole thing so far after having avoided the beta. It's like they made a new oldschool Fallout game, guys.
posted by cortex at 7:07 PM on September 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
I love love love Fallout 1 & 2 but I had never played the original Wasteland either. Got a free copy as a backer of the new one and, boy oh gosh, there was significant improvement in tech and UI between Wasteland and Fallout. Like major generational change. The original Wasteland is very nearly a text adventure, in terms of both how little the graphics do and how much of the game is navigating text commands. I wish I had the fortitude to barrel through the wall of ooooold to get at the underlying game but I just wasn't up to it after the first hour or so.
Am playing Wasteland 2 right now and am only a couple hours in but feeling very, very good about the whole thing so far after having avoided the beta. It's like they made a new oldschool Fallout game, guys.
posted by cortex at 7:07 PM on September 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I tried Wasteland 1 but it was just too low-tech for me. Wish I'd had it as a kid, I would've adored it then.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:10 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:10 PM on September 19, 2014
Wasteland and Fallout were a decade apart so it's not surprising they belong to different gaming eras.
posted by Justinian at 7:21 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by Justinian at 7:21 PM on September 19, 2014
Yeah, I tried Wasteland 1 but it was just too low-tech for me. Wish I'd had it as a kid, I would've adored it then.
I got it for my Apple IIc after perusing the game isle for a couple of hours on a family vacation one year. I'm pretty sure I paid $15 for it after having saved up my paper route money.
Totally worth it. I knew nothing about it going in, and suddenly I'm reading about guts and intestines and all manner of head explosion. I'm pretty sure that it was pushing the boundaries at the time for what video games would relay to the player. I distinctly remember a family friend coming over one day while I was playing and getting so grossed out that he couldn't continue to watch.
I didn't get very far though. It was my first shot at an RPG, and I couldn't figure out how to get very far. But it was pretty glorious world to investigate with all kinds of interesting stories.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:24 PM on September 19, 2014
I got it for my Apple IIc after perusing the game isle for a couple of hours on a family vacation one year. I'm pretty sure I paid $15 for it after having saved up my paper route money.
Totally worth it. I knew nothing about it going in, and suddenly I'm reading about guts and intestines and all manner of head explosion. I'm pretty sure that it was pushing the boundaries at the time for what video games would relay to the player. I distinctly remember a family friend coming over one day while I was playing and getting so grossed out that he couldn't continue to watch.
I didn't get very far though. It was my first shot at an RPG, and I couldn't figure out how to get very far. But it was pretty glorious world to investigate with all kinds of interesting stories.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:24 PM on September 19, 2014
I backed this, haven't installed it yet due to real life taking up more time than I can really spare for another game. I'm sure I'll be letting folks know how it goes, when I finally get around to it that is, over on mefightclub.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2014
Totally worth it. I knew nothing about it going in, and suddenly ... guts and intestines and all manner of head explosion.
That was my experience with Monster Bash, though my dad was somewhat less than impressed.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:27 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
That was my experience with Monster Bash, though my dad was somewhat less than impressed.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:27 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I remember the original Wasteland. Three things in particular stood out for me at the time as interesting design decisions:
1. Extreme flexibility in how you interact with stuff. Faced with a simple obstacle such as a gate that you want to break open, you could wield a melee weapon and attack it, or select an item from your inventory such as a crowbar and apply that to it, or even open your character stats and apply your Strength score to it. The game was very good at interpreting things you tried to do in reasonable ways.
2. One of the highest-level areas was smack in the middle of the map, highly noticeable, with its doors wide open. You could, if you wanted to, march right in there at the very beginning of the game, but you'd die very hard. I kept trying it out as my characters gained in power, gradually getting to the point where I could survive an encounter or two and then try to limp away with the loot from it. Eventually you hit a point where the plot actually steers you towards that place, and having experienced it beforehand lets you appreciate that moment with appropriate awe.
3. Finster's Brain. An area where you explore the mind of an insane robot from within, seeing how he perceives the world. It's essentially a precursor to Psychonauts.
No idea how much of this stuff made it into the sequel.
posted by baf at 7:38 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
1. Extreme flexibility in how you interact with stuff. Faced with a simple obstacle such as a gate that you want to break open, you could wield a melee weapon and attack it, or select an item from your inventory such as a crowbar and apply that to it, or even open your character stats and apply your Strength score to it. The game was very good at interpreting things you tried to do in reasonable ways.
2. One of the highest-level areas was smack in the middle of the map, highly noticeable, with its doors wide open. You could, if you wanted to, march right in there at the very beginning of the game, but you'd die very hard. I kept trying it out as my characters gained in power, gradually getting to the point where I could survive an encounter or two and then try to limp away with the loot from it. Eventually you hit a point where the plot actually steers you towards that place, and having experienced it beforehand lets you appreciate that moment with appropriate awe.
3. Finster's Brain. An area where you explore the mind of an insane robot from within, seeing how he perceives the world. It's essentially a precursor to Psychonauts.
No idea how much of this stuff made it into the sequel.
posted by baf at 7:38 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Can somebody in a few words please explain to me why people fund a Kickstarter past its goal?
posted by phaedon at 8:09 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by phaedon at 8:09 PM on September 19, 2014
Can somebody in a few words please explain to me why people fund a Kickstarter past its goal?
Extra stuff is promised at certain financial mile stones (like additional game features), and it tends to make for a better game when it can be funded for a longer duration. I don't know if this Kickstarter still lists what they were, but there were definitely additional promises made for going way beyond the goal.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:10 PM on September 19, 2014
Extra stuff is promised at certain financial mile stones (like additional game features), and it tends to make for a better game when it can be funded for a longer duration. I don't know if this Kickstarter still lists what they were, but there were definitely additional promises made for going way beyond the goal.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:10 PM on September 19, 2014
Ok, thanks. I mean, goddamn. $2mil past their goal? I am loving this online economy.
posted by phaedon at 8:20 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by phaedon at 8:20 PM on September 19, 2014
Can somebody in a few words please explain to me why people fund a Kickstarter past its goal?
Extra stuff is promised at certain financial mile stones (like additional game features), and it tends to make for a better game when it can be funded for a longer duration. I don't know if this Kickstarter still lists what they were, but there were definitely additional promises made for going way beyond the goal.
In addition, people just want in, right? [made-up numbers to follow] If Wasteland was asking $15 for the basic game, and various bonus tiers above that don't matter (physical products, generally limited so let's ignore them for simplicity) and needed let's say $450,000, they needed 30,000 backers. If I come across it after it's fully funded, I still want the game for $15, so maybe I'll fund it!
In addition to the monetary need, kickstarter can be used as a tool to gauge customer interest with an actual conversion factor (rather than: "people tell us they would play this game, therefore invest in us", it's "we already have #xyz pre-orders, we can expect #abc more purchases day-of, invest in us." In either event, it's not necessarily beneficial for the person running the kickstarter to arbitrarily limit it to early adopters.
Super-excited about getting this once my financial situation is less precarious. Never played the first, but loved the early fallouts.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:29 PM on September 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
You could, if you wanted to, march right in there at the very beginning of the game, but you'd die very hard.
The Gold Box D&D games were pretty good about that, too. And worse, if you got eaten by a dragon, it would save that unless you lifted the lever on the disk drive to prevent writes.
Autoduel also did that.
One of things I miss in modern games is a steep and unforgiving learning curve. Of course being able to readily look things up on the internet changes things, too. Back then, you had to wait for a games magazine to do a walkthrough, or later on, hope someone posted a hint to the BBS in your area.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:37 PM on September 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
The Gold Box D&D games were pretty good about that, too. And worse, if you got eaten by a dragon, it would save that unless you lifted the lever on the disk drive to prevent writes.
Autoduel also did that.
One of things I miss in modern games is a steep and unforgiving learning curve. Of course being able to readily look things up on the internet changes things, too. Back then, you had to wait for a games magazine to do a walkthrough, or later on, hope someone posted a hint to the BBS in your area.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:37 PM on September 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
Here are the milestones promised from the original Kickstarter page:
To do this game right, we need to raise $1 million, but you'll notice our funding request is $900,000 and that is because Brian Fargo has offered to fund the last $100,000 if need be. That’s a lot of money needed, but not when compared with the budgets of most full scale RPGs made today. The original game sold over 100,000 copies—on the Apple ][ and Commodore 64 platforms back in the day. If everyone who played it then backs the project at the most basic level, the game is on.posted by SpacemanStix at 8:37 PM on September 19, 2014
But we’re looking ahead to what we can do if you all back this project in force. At $1.25 million, the money will go primarily into making the world bigger, adding more maps, more divergent stories and even more music.
At $1.5 million, the world gets even bigger. You’ll have more adventures to play, more challenges to deal with, and a greater level of complexity to the entire storyline. We’ll add more environments, story elements, and characters to make the rich world come alive even more. We will even be able to bring Wasteland 2 to OS X and Linux! And after $1.5 million the sky is the limit.
The Gold Box D&D games were pretty good about that, too. And worse, if you got eaten by a dragon, it would save that unless you lifted the lever on the disk drive to prevent writes.
Fallout 3 scaled everything to the player's level, aside from a few areas where Deathclaws always are, and it was hilarious for several months after New Vegas came out to hear the crying of people who were upset that they couldn't take on a swarm of cazadores at level 1. It was even funnier when other people started figuring out ways around the high-level beasties and going basically everywhere on the map at level 1, demonstrating that it wasn't even necessary to fight them.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:43 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Fallout 3 scaled everything to the player's level, aside from a few areas where Deathclaws always are, and it was hilarious for several months after New Vegas came out to hear the crying of people who were upset that they couldn't take on a swarm of cazadores at level 1. It was even funnier when other people started figuring out ways around the high-level beasties and going basically everywhere on the map at level 1, demonstrating that it wasn't even necessary to fight them.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:43 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
The price (and download size) of this thing feels pretty bloated to me. My understanding of Kickstarter projects was that they take a thing from an idea all the way through to a finished product. So since they no longer have to recoup development costs, $45 is just a bit rich for my blood at this exact point in time.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:47 PM on September 19, 2014
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:47 PM on September 19, 2014
They're somewhat bound to whatever retail price they set at the time of the Kickstarter, though, otherwise it's unfair on the backers.
Wait for a sale.
posted by Sebmojo at 9:09 PM on September 19, 2014
Wait for a sale.
posted by Sebmojo at 9:09 PM on September 19, 2014
So. Gamma World minus the mutations?
On a computer?
(Speaking of wading through the wall of ooooold.)
posted by notyou at 9:59 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
On a computer?
(Speaking of wading through the wall of ooooold.)
posted by notyou at 9:59 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Kickstarter researcher here again. When I survey people with goals above $5k about why they raise on kickstarter, needing the money is the fourth most common reason - finding out if there is a market is first. It is very common for people to raise extra cash afterwards since they can show there is demand. Fargo underestimated demand, less as a gimmick and more because nobody knew.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:28 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by blahblahblah at 10:28 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I backed this from the beginning. I'm expecting a big box mailed to me, complete with manual and cloth map. I am more excited about that than the game, in some ways.
I waited a long time for this game, and even with the concessions made (some pain me, like the loss of the original Wasteland RPG system that was derived from Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes, itself derived from Tunnels and Trolls) I think it is a success.
In the end, it happened. 22 years late, but it happened.
Now I just have to keep explaining to those who talk to me about it that it is not a Fallout clone but rather that Fallout was a spiritual successor with a very different focus, the main one being that Wasteland is an old school RPG with a party system where no one individual is a hero; it and the Bard's Tale series allowed you start with a set of characters that potentially would not make it to the end (heck, in Wasteland once you find the cloning machine you just disbanded everyone but your best guy and cloned him/her to fill the slots), whereas Fallout was very hero character based. There is no Chosen One in the Wasteland.
When was the last time a game provided a story that could accommodate the idea of a disposable party? THAT's why Wasteland 2 is important.
posted by linux at 10:36 PM on September 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
I waited a long time for this game, and even with the concessions made (some pain me, like the loss of the original Wasteland RPG system that was derived from Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes, itself derived from Tunnels and Trolls) I think it is a success.
In the end, it happened. 22 years late, but it happened.
Now I just have to keep explaining to those who talk to me about it that it is not a Fallout clone but rather that Fallout was a spiritual successor with a very different focus, the main one being that Wasteland is an old school RPG with a party system where no one individual is a hero; it and the Bard's Tale series allowed you start with a set of characters that potentially would not make it to the end (heck, in Wasteland once you find the cloning machine you just disbanded everyone but your best guy and cloned him/her to fill the slots), whereas Fallout was very hero character based. There is no Chosen One in the Wasteland.
When was the last time a game provided a story that could accommodate the idea of a disposable party? THAT's why Wasteland 2 is important.
posted by linux at 10:36 PM on September 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
Goddamnit.
So after more reading around I went and bought the damn thing. Only an hour in and running on a shitty machine to boot, but I have to say, it's looking pretty damn good. Nearly Fallout 1/2 levels of good.
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:07 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
So after more reading around I went and bought the damn thing. Only an hour in and running on a shitty machine to boot, but I have to say, it's looking pretty damn good. Nearly Fallout 1/2 levels of good.
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:07 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Anyone know if I should avoid spending points on skills in which the first couple of companions you pick up are skilled? Because I made a Native American woman sniper with Animal Whisperer, Sniper Rifle, Perception, and Outdoorsman as one of my starting 4. So, yeah, now I wonder if I should restart. Or are there way more companions than slots so I can dump the redundancy for somebody else?
posted by Justinian at 1:37 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by Justinian at 1:37 AM on September 20, 2014
This isn't the first time that happened either. I essentially made a duplicate of that fire mage in Neverwinter Nights 2 and had to restart. I guess I'm a walking encyclopedia of RPG cliches.
posted by Justinian at 1:38 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:38 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's a 9.4GB download
Wait, so how many floppies do I need to bring over?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:41 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
Wait, so how many floppies do I need to bring over?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:41 AM on September 20, 2014 [6 favorites]
Word of advice after about 5 hours of play (but didn't play the beta): ammo isn't common in the early stages, particularly the good stuff (sniper, heavy weapons), so having some skill in melee or unarmed weapons can be advantageous.
I'm only five hours in, after a restart at hour 3, but I don't think that your first companion is going to be around forever. She's too high level, so she's probably there to even out the learning curve.
Oh, and if people are baulking at the cost, you can get the game for $25 if you want. All you need to do is invest in the Torment game here. (Note, might be able to get the game without purchasing Torment by giving an arbitrary donation, waiting up to a couple of weeks for it to process, and then just selecting Wasteland as your pledge reward... Haven't tried it, so no idea if it would work).
You might also be able to beg it from friends and family. If they invested in the Torment kickstarter and the Wasteland kickstarter, they could have two game keys. I know I have one spare key, but my family doesn't seem to be too interested in it. Still waiting to hear from one brother though.
posted by YAMWAK at 1:45 AM on September 20, 2014
I'm only five hours in, after a restart at hour 3, but I don't think that your first companion is going to be around forever. She's too high level, so she's probably there to even out the learning curve.
Oh, and if people are baulking at the cost, you can get the game for $25 if you want. All you need to do is invest in the Torment game here. (Note, might be able to get the game without purchasing Torment by giving an arbitrary donation, waiting up to a couple of weeks for it to process, and then just selecting Wasteland as your pledge reward... Haven't tried it, so no idea if it would work).
You might also be able to beg it from friends and family. If they invested in the Torment kickstarter and the Wasteland kickstarter, they could have two game keys. I know I have one spare key, but my family doesn't seem to be too interested in it. Still waiting to hear from one brother though.
posted by YAMWAK at 1:45 AM on September 20, 2014
I think it was a higher reward tier for Torment though, right (or do I have an extra key)?
The connection where I am right now is terrible and I'll be able to play this at the end of the day, best case. That said, I have a massive case of Fallout 2 nostalgia, I managed to avoid being spoiled by the beta, and I'm so eager to play this!
posted by ersatz at 2:13 AM on September 20, 2014
The connection where I am right now is terrible and I'll be able to play this at the end of the day, best case. That said, I have a massive case of Fallout 2 nostalgia, I managed to avoid being spoiled by the beta, and I'm so eager to play this!
posted by ersatz at 2:13 AM on September 20, 2014
D'oh. Yes, looking at things, I'm not sure where my second key came from. Thought it was from the mid-tier support for Torment that I picked, but it looks that it only came when you pledged $250 or more, unless you deliberately picked an option with it.
posted by YAMWAK at 2:27 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by YAMWAK at 2:27 AM on September 20, 2014
That price tho. I have never seen a Kickstarter game that expensive, 40 euros on Steam.
Ehh. Buy it in the inevitable sale or wait for the Humble Bundle.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:34 AM on September 20, 2014
Ehh. Buy it in the inevitable sale or wait for the Humble Bundle.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:34 AM on September 20, 2014
You got a second Wasteland 2 key if you pledged at least $30 on the kickstarter. That's why I don't understand people complaining about the cost. If you wanted it cheap you coulda gotten 2 copies for $30 bucks. There has to be some reward for people who had faith and backed the game, doesn't there? If the game is dirt cheap after release it removes part of the incentive to back it.
I'm waiting on my COLLECTOR'S EDITION PREMIUM BOXED VERSION. It is gonna be sweet.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 AM on September 20, 2014
I'm waiting on my COLLECTOR'S EDITION PREMIUM BOXED VERSION. It is gonna be sweet.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 AM on September 20, 2014
I don't think you can compare the cost of most kickstarted games to something like Wasteland 2 or Pillars of Eternity or Torment: Tides of Numeria. I'm a big fan of FTL or whatever but the level of effort in their production are orders of magnitude apart.
posted by Justinian at 2:37 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by Justinian at 2:37 AM on September 20, 2014
One of things I miss in modern games is a steep and unforgiving learning curve.
Gods, no. Most of that was as a substitute for content: if we make it arbitrarily difficult for you, you have to spent more hours trying to beat the game, rather than us having to come up with more things to do.
Difficulty should always be high enough to be challenging, but not enough to be discouraging. The first Half Life got it perfectly right, one of the few first person shooters were you wanted to play the single player story.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:43 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Gods, no. Most of that was as a substitute for content: if we make it arbitrarily difficult for you, you have to spent more hours trying to beat the game, rather than us having to come up with more things to do.
Difficulty should always be high enough to be challenging, but not enough to be discouraging. The first Half Life got it perfectly right, one of the few first person shooters were you wanted to play the single player story.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:43 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
If the game is dirt cheap after release it removes part of the incentive to back it.
That's why I don't usually back boardgames on kickstarer. Why pay full MSRP on KS when I can pay about have that when it hits the online retailers. The notable exception has been TMG's micro games.
posted by yeti at 4:15 AM on September 20, 2014
That's why I don't usually back boardgames on kickstarer. Why pay full MSRP on KS when I can pay about have that when it hits the online retailers. The notable exception has been TMG's micro games.
posted by yeti at 4:15 AM on September 20, 2014
There has to be some reward for people who had faith and backed the game, doesn't there?
I wish more KS projects felt this way!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 5:20 AM on September 20, 2014
I wish more KS projects felt this way!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 5:20 AM on September 20, 2014
Yeah, I don't get the pricing complaints. This game was kickstarted well beyond expectations and became comparable (well, I hope, I still haven't gotten a chance to play it) to AAA games in scope and quality as a result of that backer support, and so now it is priced accordingly at launch, like _exactly_ on the nose for a AAA game for roughly the same audience. I paid full price IIRC for bioshock infinite, deus ex HR, and xcom and those were each $40, which is what wasteland 2 is in the US. If the $25 difference relative to the backer price bugs you, that's on you, not them; have some patience and wait for a sale, which will surely happen within the next year. Or get in via torment.
I mean, I didn't back pillars of eternity and I kind of wish I had based on what they've done since, but I'm hardly going to complain about my poor judgment back then if they charge me more now than they would have when it wasn't at all a sure thing!
posted by advil at 5:58 AM on September 20, 2014
I mean, I didn't back pillars of eternity and I kind of wish I had based on what they've done since, but I'm hardly going to complain about my poor judgment back then if they charge me more now than they would have when it wasn't at all a sure thing!
posted by advil at 5:58 AM on September 20, 2014
I kicked in a few bucks on kickstarter, and haven't played in the beta despite being eligable to. But I downloaded it and so far it seems fun. Never played the original Wasteland, but it does have a nice Fallout 1/2 sort of feel.
posted by sotonohito at 6:03 AM on September 20, 2014
posted by sotonohito at 6:03 AM on September 20, 2014
you have to spent more hours trying to beat the game
That's why I got the game - to beat the game.
If I wanted a story experience, I'd go to the movies or to the library.
Granted, the best games combine the two in delightful and intriguing ways*, but a game should primarily be challenging.
*Deus Ex Human Revolution had a difficulty setting not called "easy" but "Tell Me A Story". I thought that was a nice take on it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:07 AM on September 20, 2014
That's why I got the game - to beat the game.
If I wanted a story experience, I'd go to the movies or to the library.
Granted, the best games combine the two in delightful and intriguing ways*, but a game should primarily be challenging.
*Deus Ex Human Revolution had a difficulty setting not called "easy" but "Tell Me A Story". I thought that was a nice take on it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:07 AM on September 20, 2014
So. Gamma World minus the mutations?
On a computer?
For Gamma World plus the mutations on a computer, check out Caves of Qud.
posted by history_denier at 7:57 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
On a computer?
For Gamma World plus the mutations on a computer, check out Caves of Qud.
posted by history_denier at 7:57 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Ahh, fortunately this thread reminded me that I was entitled to a free copy of this game for the money I spent backing Torment on Kickstarter. They really should've sent out an email or something to the forgetful folks like me - "Hey remember that game you were gonna get as a reward once it finally got released? It got released!"
(Note, might be able to get the game without purchasing Torment by giving an arbitrary donation, waiting up to a couple of weeks for it to process, and then just selecting Wasteland as your pledge reward... Haven't tried it, so no idea if it would work)
The "digital copy of Wasteland" reward is locked until you've put in at least $40, so no sneaking a cheaper copy of it that way. You'd have $15 leftover to get yourself some digital concept art or comic books for Torment. Or you know, kick in an extra $5 since it looks like for $45 you can get both games.
Of course you'll need to still remember that you got both games, whenever Torment finally does come out...
posted by mstokes650 at 8:29 AM on September 20, 2014
(Note, might be able to get the game without purchasing Torment by giving an arbitrary donation, waiting up to a couple of weeks for it to process, and then just selecting Wasteland as your pledge reward... Haven't tried it, so no idea if it would work)
The "digital copy of Wasteland" reward is locked until you've put in at least $40, so no sneaking a cheaper copy of it that way. You'd have $15 leftover to get yourself some digital concept art or comic books for Torment. Or you know, kick in an extra $5 since it looks like for $45 you can get both games.
Of course you'll need to still remember that you got both games, whenever Torment finally does come out...
posted by mstokes650 at 8:29 AM on September 20, 2014
a game should primarily be challenging
Not for me. I play any game on Easy. I love games, and I play most of them for their storytelling.
posted by nev at 9:40 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not for me. I play any game on Easy. I love games, and I play most of them for their storytelling.
posted by nev at 9:40 AM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I was fairly disappointed in the new Shadowrun game, but have had pretty high hopes for Wasteland 2 and after a few hours of play I think it gets pretty close to its mark. I never played Wasteland 1, and as Linux alluded to the party system is a bit of a change - but I am getting used to it.
Honestly, my biggest complaint so far is the Unity engine and the graphics and textures - the game just seems to be visually a mish-mash with the character-models and the landscape seeming to be constantly at odds with each other. That said though, I am having fun and look forward to completing the game.
posted by rosswald at 10:17 AM on September 20, 2014
Honestly, my biggest complaint so far is the Unity engine and the graphics and textures - the game just seems to be visually a mish-mash with the character-models and the landscape seeming to be constantly at odds with each other. That said though, I am having fun and look forward to completing the game.
posted by rosswald at 10:17 AM on September 20, 2014
rikshell: Don't know if that's an inside joke, but it looks like they did include a 100-page (digital) manual that goes over the game in detail.
I'm not quite interested enough in buying the game at the moment - turn-based combat isn't quite my thing, and I have a ton of games that I haven't even touched - but the fact that they took the time to create an honest-to-God manual gives them a few extra points in my book. Might pick this up later when it goes on sale.
(Manual is free on the Steam page for the game.)
posted by zbaco at 1:13 PM on September 20, 2014
I'm not quite interested enough in buying the game at the moment - turn-based combat isn't quite my thing, and I have a ton of games that I haven't even touched - but the fact that they took the time to create an honest-to-God manual gives them a few extra points in my book. Might pick this up later when it goes on sale.
(Manual is free on the Steam page for the game.)
posted by zbaco at 1:13 PM on September 20, 2014
rikshell: Don't know if that's an inside joke, but it looks like they did include a 100-page (digital) manual that goes over the game in detail.
Games of that era, including wasteland 1 (as well as most/all of the gold box games, etc) left out text to save space/memory. They came with a booklet of numbered paragraphs, and you would regularly get messages like "read paragraph 56", which would then describe what was going on in the game. Some of them would be red herrings, so you couldn't figure out the end from just reading through the books. here's a transcription of the original wasteland 1 paragraphs; I believe the wasteland 1 re-release that inxile did incorporates them into the game directly though.
posted by advil at 1:37 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Games of that era, including wasteland 1 (as well as most/all of the gold box games, etc) left out text to save space/memory. They came with a booklet of numbered paragraphs, and you would regularly get messages like "read paragraph 56", which would then describe what was going on in the game. Some of them would be red herrings, so you couldn't figure out the end from just reading through the books. here's a transcription of the original wasteland 1 paragraphs; I believe the wasteland 1 re-release that inxile did incorporates them into the game directly though.
posted by advil at 1:37 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm interested in checking out both Torment and Wasteland 2, but when I go to the Torment site, it looks like the "Torment and Wasteland 2" bundle is the $65 pledge level. Am I missing something, or was the $25 reward only available to early pledgers?
posted by QuantumMeruit at 2:14 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by QuantumMeruit at 2:14 PM on September 20, 2014
The site is a little weird.
You donate money to the site via the arbitrary pledge option. It takes a while to process (allow a couple of days minimum), but that gives you points (1 cent = 1 point). You then go to the rewards tab on the site and spend the points for your reward.
Just to complicate things, your rewards cost points, but the rewards only unlock after you've donated so much. As an example, Wasteland 2 costs 2,500 points ($25), but you need to donate $40 to actually unlock that option. There are plenty of things to spend the excess on, of course.
On the same rewards page, a digital download of the game costs 3,000 points (not sure where mstokes650 got his numbers from, there might be another options elsewhere I can't see, or they might have changed their prices or something). So you donate $55 to the site, and then select Torment and Wasteland 2 as your reward.
If you go to the pledge site, both games together as a bundle does appear to be $65, which could mean that you get other things alongside both games, or that they made a mistake. Having followed inXile for a while now, I honestly believe that they are not looking to rip you off in any way.
Hope that helps.
posted by YAMWAK at 3:23 PM on September 20, 2014
You donate money to the site via the arbitrary pledge option. It takes a while to process (allow a couple of days minimum), but that gives you points (1 cent = 1 point). You then go to the rewards tab on the site and spend the points for your reward.
Just to complicate things, your rewards cost points, but the rewards only unlock after you've donated so much. As an example, Wasteland 2 costs 2,500 points ($25), but you need to donate $40 to actually unlock that option. There are plenty of things to spend the excess on, of course.
On the same rewards page, a digital download of the game costs 3,000 points (not sure where mstokes650 got his numbers from, there might be another options elsewhere I can't see, or they might have changed their prices or something). So you donate $55 to the site, and then select Torment and Wasteland 2 as your reward.
If you go to the pledge site, both games together as a bundle does appear to be $65, which could mean that you get other things alongside both games, or that they made a mistake. Having followed inXile for a while now, I honestly believe that they are not looking to rip you off in any way.
Hope that helps.
posted by YAMWAK at 3:23 PM on September 20, 2014
Barter skill feels weak to me. I don't think a 1% decrease in prices is enough to justify the skill points, particularly since it appears to round down such that a lot of items will see no decrease in cost until your barter skill is prohibitively high skill point wise.
Gonna skip it. More points for killin' stuff.
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on September 20, 2014
Gonna skip it. More points for killin' stuff.
posted by Justinian at 3:26 PM on September 20, 2014
Games of that era, including wasteland 1 (as well as most/all of the gold box games, etc) left out text to save space/memory. They came with a booklet of numbered paragraphs, and you would regularly get messages like "read paragraph 56", which would then describe what was going on in the game. Some of them would be red herrings, so you couldn't figure out the end from just reading through the books.
It's pretty crazy that there was a time that choosing to print a mere 160 paragraphs of text was the better option because that data was too costly in terms of space.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:27 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's pretty crazy that there was a time that choosing to print a mere 160 paragraphs of text was the better option because that data was too costly in terms of space.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:27 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
As an example, Wasteland 2 costs 2,500 points ($25), but you need to donate $40 to actually unlock that option. There are plenty of things to spend the excess on, of course.
On the same rewards page, a digital download of the game costs 3,000 points (not sure where mstokes650 got his numbers from, there might be another options elsewhere I can't see, or they might have changed their prices or something). So you donate $55 to the site, and then select Torment and Wasteland 2 as your reward.
I'm not confident that people pledging now see the same options as an original backer -- I backed an option called "It's all about the RPGs" or something like that at $45 (now 4500 points) while the kickstarter was active that got me both games, and in my reward option page is listed separately from the 6500 point option which now appears to get you exactly the same thing. (This second thing is also the only option listed on the non-logged-in version.) So my guess is that the original backers are seeing a bunch of things that new backers won't, and I wouldn't be shocked if the 2500 point thing is also in that category.
posted by advil at 3:57 PM on September 20, 2014
On the same rewards page, a digital download of the game costs 3,000 points (not sure where mstokes650 got his numbers from, there might be another options elsewhere I can't see, or they might have changed their prices or something). So you donate $55 to the site, and then select Torment and Wasteland 2 as your reward.
I'm not confident that people pledging now see the same options as an original backer -- I backed an option called "It's all about the RPGs" or something like that at $45 (now 4500 points) while the kickstarter was active that got me both games, and in my reward option page is listed separately from the 6500 point option which now appears to get you exactly the same thing. (This second thing is also the only option listed on the non-logged-in version.) So my guess is that the original backers are seeing a bunch of things that new backers won't, and I wouldn't be shocked if the 2500 point thing is also in that category.
posted by advil at 3:57 PM on September 20, 2014
Justinian, I don't think I've ever taken much in the barter skill in any games like that. You can get plenty of money killing and being a better killer makes you more money than being better at bartering.
There's probably a lesson, inadvertent or not, in that.
posted by sotonohito at 5:02 PM on September 20, 2014
There's probably a lesson, inadvertent or not, in that.
posted by sotonohito at 5:02 PM on September 20, 2014
So, does anyone have any suggestions for an initial squad build?
posted by TheTingTangTong at 5:11 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by TheTingTangTong at 5:11 PM on September 20, 2014
And I just swore off video games until Routine was released, too.
posted by Gev at 5:18 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Gev at 5:18 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think I've ever taken much in the barter skill in any games like that. You can get plenty of money killing and being a better killer makes you more money than being better at bartering.
A notable (and relevant!) exception is the original Fallout, a game in which the power of high-skilled bartering was such that you could actually get most traders to pay you more to buy an item from you than they would charge to sell it to you.
Which made "buy the entire universe" one plausible niche approach to the game: get your character up to 101%+ barter as soon as you can, and then arbitrage people in the face until you have everything you can take off them. Bartering went from being an issue of pragmatism in the face of scarcity to being a kind of packing problem, where your biggest problem was people who lacked useful fungible items like caps or ammo or health stuff. Because every trade had to give them something in exchange for however much undervalued caps and merch you were fleecing them for, the trick was to leave them with the worst thing you could arrange. Ideally that was some useless junk you found in the wastes, but sometimes you had to go and leave them with something moderately useful and that was just a total bummer.
You couldn't quite beat the game outright just by bartering, but you could remove a really significant piece of the economic pressure to fight/scavanage. And it didn't even take that much in the way of skill points and attributes to get your barter up to absurdity levels, so you didn't have to otherwise break your character to pull it off, just strip down your build a little bit.
Fargo fixed it in Fallout 2, the big jerk.
posted by cortex at 5:34 PM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
A notable (and relevant!) exception is the original Fallout, a game in which the power of high-skilled bartering was such that you could actually get most traders to pay you more to buy an item from you than they would charge to sell it to you.
Which made "buy the entire universe" one plausible niche approach to the game: get your character up to 101%+ barter as soon as you can, and then arbitrage people in the face until you have everything you can take off them. Bartering went from being an issue of pragmatism in the face of scarcity to being a kind of packing problem, where your biggest problem was people who lacked useful fungible items like caps or ammo or health stuff. Because every trade had to give them something in exchange for however much undervalued caps and merch you were fleecing them for, the trick was to leave them with the worst thing you could arrange. Ideally that was some useless junk you found in the wastes, but sometimes you had to go and leave them with something moderately useful and that was just a total bummer.
You couldn't quite beat the game outright just by bartering, but you could remove a really significant piece of the economic pressure to fight/scavanage. And it didn't even take that much in the way of skill points and attributes to get your barter up to absurdity levels, so you didn't have to otherwise break your character to pull it off, just strip down your build a little bit.
Fargo fixed it in Fallout 2, the big jerk.
posted by cortex at 5:34 PM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
Games of that era, including wasteland 1 (as well as most/all of the gold box games, etc) left out text to save space/memory. They came with a booklet of numbered paragraphs, and you would regularly get messages like "read paragraph 56", which would then describe what was going on in the game. Some of them would be red herrings, so you couldn't figure out the end from just reading through the books.
It's pretty crazy that there was a time that choosing to print a mere 160 paragraphs of text was the better option because that data was too costly in terms of space.
Eh, as well as I can remember every game I saw keyed to a printed manual was for “copy protection” purposes. The Wasteland 1 document of paragraphs linked above is under 30K. Perhaps it kept them from needing to include another disk on some platforms (multi-disk games were not uncommon), but I’m sure making things more difficult to copy was a reason, too, if not the only/prime reason.
posted by D.C. at 5:44 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's pretty crazy that there was a time that choosing to print a mere 160 paragraphs of text was the better option because that data was too costly in terms of space.
Eh, as well as I can remember every game I saw keyed to a printed manual was for “copy protection” purposes. The Wasteland 1 document of paragraphs linked above is under 30K. Perhaps it kept them from needing to include another disk on some platforms (multi-disk games were not uncommon), but I’m sure making things more difficult to copy was a reason, too, if not the only/prime reason.
posted by D.C. at 5:44 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
So, does anyone have any suggestions for an initial squad build?
Somewhat accidentally I have developed one of my characters into a trap-disarmer and thief (lockpicking, safe-cracking, and demo.) - which has proved immensely helpful in keeping my ammo. stocks high. (I also have a comp-sci person, which helps with the electronic locks.)
posted by rosswald at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Somewhat accidentally I have developed one of my characters into a trap-disarmer and thief (lockpicking, safe-cracking, and demo.) - which has proved immensely helpful in keeping my ammo. stocks high. (I also have a comp-sci person, which helps with the electronic locks.)
posted by rosswald at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Memo to Vulture's Cry: Do not charge full speed at the infected pod person with your nail club instead of sitting safely out of range and sniping it in the face with your modded sniper rifle. That is not the appropriate strategy. See me after lunch for remedial training.
My team is beat to crap, low on ammo, and badly in need of some R&R back at the Citadel but I'm afraid to bypass this crappy town that just radioed in on the assumption that Wasteland 2 will punish me and destroy the place if I take too much time. This is going to be rough.
posted by Justinian at 4:23 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
My team is beat to crap, low on ammo, and badly in need of some R&R back at the Citadel but I'm afraid to bypass this crappy town that just radioed in on the assumption that Wasteland 2 will punish me and destroy the place if I take too much time. This is going to be rough.
posted by Justinian at 4:23 AM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, best strategy that I can come up with for pod people is to have their target run away and then set up ambushes with everyone else when it chases them.
Can I just say that guns that jam one shot in ten are ridiculous, just like not being able to hit a HUGE rabbit at point blank range with a shotgun better than one time in three.
Haven't gotten as far as Highpool yet, but judging from the radio messages, it can't really get any worse.
Low ammo is a problem, but if you favour melee weapons at every opportunity, you should come out with more than you left with.
posted by YAMWAK at 6:26 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Can I just say that guns that jam one shot in ten are ridiculous, just like not being able to hit a HUGE rabbit at point blank range with a shotgun better than one time in three.
Haven't gotten as far as Highpool yet, but judging from the radio messages, it can't really get any worse.
Low ammo is a problem, but if you favour melee weapons at every opportunity, you should come out with more than you left with.
posted by YAMWAK at 6:26 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think I've ever taken much in the barter skill in any games like that. You can get plenty of money killing and being a better killer makes you more money than being better at bartering.
>A notable (and relevant!) exception is the original Fallout, a game in which the power of high-skilled bartering was such that you could actually get most traders to pay you more to buy an item from you than they would charge to sell it to you.
Ha, yes. If you played a melee character you had to put some points into Barter when you reachedBartertown the Hub to get a proper, the best HtH weapon and go to town fighting deathclaws. Shooty characters had it easier.
posted by ersatz at 9:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
>A notable (and relevant!) exception is the original Fallout, a game in which the power of high-skilled bartering was such that you could actually get most traders to pay you more to buy an item from you than they would charge to sell it to you.
Ha, yes. If you played a melee character you had to put some points into Barter when you reached
posted by ersatz at 9:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Barter was useful in Fallout: New Vegas - there were a few dialogue options it opened up, including the only way to talk yourself out of the final boss fight (if you were so inclined to do so).
posted by YAMWAK at 9:42 AM on September 21, 2014
posted by YAMWAK at 9:42 AM on September 21, 2014
The only thing I wish I'd done differently at this point is to have a few more of my guys take edged/blunt/brawling as a secondary skill. I suppose its never too late to slap a few points into it.
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on September 21, 2014
Just that first pip of a weapon skill is huge; takes someone from useless to at least coin flip odds for very little skill point investment, compared to the far more incremental improvement of each additional pip.
posted by cortex at 1:49 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by cortex at 1:49 PM on September 21, 2014
Barter was useful in Fallout: New Vegas - there were a few dialogue options it opened up, including the only way to talk yourself out of the final boss fight (if you were so inclined to do so).
The best thing about Barter in New Vegas is that 70 Barter is the prerequisite for the Pack Rat perk, which reduces the weight of all items that weigh 2 units or less by half. It's handy in regular play, and a godsend on hardcore.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:22 PM on September 21, 2014
The best thing about Barter in New Vegas is that 70 Barter is the prerequisite for the Pack Rat perk, which reduces the weight of all items that weigh 2 units or less by half. It's handy in regular play, and a godsend on hardcore.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:22 PM on September 21, 2014
I am having amazing fun with this thing. I actually considered taking time off work this week to play it.
The trick is setting up a theme for your ranger squadron. Mine are Deadwood characters, with appropriate visual representations.
I've got Al Swearengen, nominally the squad leader, so he's got high CHA and Leadership and Hard Ass skills, as well as Bladed Weapon skills (because he likes to work close in with a knife). I've recently opened up the world of Safecracking to him (because Al had a safe in his office, duh).
Next I've got Seth Bullock. I was thinking of making him a brawler, but I decided to specialize him in Pistols and Mechanics (because he's good with his hands and builds houses and shit). I intend to dual-class him into Randy Maniac Bishop once I've got the XP.
Then we've got Dan Dority. Dan is maxed out on STR, and is good at punching, shotgunning, and lockpicking (because I needed a lockpicker). He's the pack mule and can carry insane amounts of gear, but don't misunderestimate Dan: once he gets in ur face with his brass knuckles, you're as good as done for. Unless he misses, which he does a lot :(
Finally, "Doc" Cochrane. Unsurprisingly, he's the group medic, with strong surgical and field medic skills, as well as some other stuff (like Animal Whisperer for some reason, actually pretty handy). Luckily, thrown explosives don't require any specialization, and I think he's killed more bad guys than anybody else.
Some of the controls are a little finnicky, and I'm not a fan of the camera, but this game is great, great fun. Most excited I've been about a game since Skyrim. 9/10 from me. Buy it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:06 PM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
The trick is setting up a theme for your ranger squadron. Mine are Deadwood characters, with appropriate visual representations.
I've got Al Swearengen, nominally the squad leader, so he's got high CHA and Leadership and Hard Ass skills, as well as Bladed Weapon skills (because he likes to work close in with a knife). I've recently opened up the world of Safecracking to him (because Al had a safe in his office, duh).
Next I've got Seth Bullock. I was thinking of making him a brawler, but I decided to specialize him in Pistols and Mechanics (because he's good with his hands and builds houses and shit). I intend to dual-class him into Randy Maniac Bishop once I've got the XP.
Then we've got Dan Dority. Dan is maxed out on STR, and is good at punching, shotgunning, and lockpicking (because I needed a lockpicker). He's the pack mule and can carry insane amounts of gear, but don't misunderestimate Dan: once he gets in ur face with his brass knuckles, you're as good as done for. Unless he misses, which he does a lot :(
Finally, "Doc" Cochrane. Unsurprisingly, he's the group medic, with strong surgical and field medic skills, as well as some other stuff (like Animal Whisperer for some reason, actually pretty handy). Luckily, thrown explosives don't require any specialization, and I think he's killed more bad guys than anybody else.
Some of the controls are a little finnicky, and I'm not a fan of the camera, but this game is great, great fun. Most excited I've been about a game since Skyrim. 9/10 from me. Buy it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:06 PM on September 21, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, sorry. I forget not everyone is old. The paragraph book was primarily for copy protection. Without it, you'd be very confused and not really get to play the game effectively. It was very easy to copy disks at the time, and cracked disks circulated freely. But copying 50 pages meant a trip to the library and five bucks. That made copying a lot less casual.
posted by rikschell at 6:38 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by rikschell at 6:38 PM on September 21, 2014
Yes, this game is hitting all the right notes for me. I'm a few hours into it now. My only minor complaint is probably the camera at times, but overall, this is a really well done game with a lot of polish.
posted by SpacemanStix at 6:59 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by SpacemanStix at 6:59 PM on September 21, 2014
A couple people have mentioned the camera now. What do you not like about it? I like it; you can rotate a full 360° and zoom in or out a good ways.
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on September 21, 2014
Justinian, I think it's mainly to do with the age of my machine, with the rotation happening in jarring chunklets of 45° apiece.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:40 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:40 PM on September 21, 2014
That made copying a lot less casual.
I loved the copy protection pirate wheel on Monkey Island 2 (I think it was), and I also remember one game (Sam & Max maybe? Pretty sure it was a Lucasarts game) that had a red cellophane strip you had to run over certain paragraphs to decipher the magic copy protection code. Maybe it was the same game. I don't know. I'm old now.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:44 PM on September 21, 2014
I loved the copy protection pirate wheel on Monkey Island 2 (I think it was), and I also remember one game (Sam & Max maybe? Pretty sure it was a Lucasarts game) that had a red cellophane strip you had to run over certain paragraphs to decipher the magic copy protection code. Maybe it was the same game. I don't know. I'm old now.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:44 PM on September 21, 2014
It's a pretty good camera in general. The one place that it's gotten a little bit wonky is inside locations. It's better if you pan all the way out, but right now I'm in a place where it is a bit tricky to navigate in a narrow corridor in a basement area. You rotate, and if it is too close in, some of the places you are supposed to go are obfuscated in ways that aren't super clean due to camera obstructions. It's a timed thing too, with some environmental damage that happens if you don't navigate quickly. So, slight frustration, but nothing you can't get past with some tinkering.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:46 PM on September 21, 2014
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:46 PM on September 21, 2014
Man, I'm really loving this game. Had a blast playing it all day yesterday, and now I'm just counting the days to fall break. Tone wise it's very good: funny without the zaniness than sometimes plagued Fallout and bleak without being GRIMDARK. All kinds of clever easter eggs that manage to be funny without being distracting. All in all, a far better game than I expected.
My Party:
1. Alex - Party Face. High Int, High CHR, Very Low Str.
Skills: Smart Ass, Kiss Ass, Leadership
Weapon of Choice: Pistols
2. Fr. Crusher - Melee/Muscle. Low Int. Very. High Str.
Skills: Brute Force, Demolitions
Weapons of Choice: Bladed, Shotguns
3. Tumbler - Skill Monkey. V. High Int.
Skills: Lockpick, Computer Science, Safecracking, Mechanical Repair
Weapons of Choice: Bludgeon, Assault Rifle
4. Dr. Sayid - Medic. V. High Int.
Skills: Field Medic, Surgeon, Perception
Weapons of Choice: None (Learned SMG early on)
About 11 or 12 people - in addition to myself - decided to substitute an "in memoriam" instead of their own backer by-line in the credits. Enough, in fact, that they included an "in memoriam" by line in the credits (center justified and a much larger font) before the fire hose of backer names. Classy touch, gents.
posted by absalom at 5:57 AM on September 22, 2014
My Party:
1. Alex - Party Face. High Int, High CHR, Very Low Str.
Skills: Smart Ass, Kiss Ass, Leadership
Weapon of Choice: Pistols
2. Fr. Crusher - Melee/Muscle. Low Int. Very. High Str.
Skills: Brute Force, Demolitions
Weapons of Choice: Bladed, Shotguns
3. Tumbler - Skill Monkey. V. High Int.
Skills: Lockpick, Computer Science, Safecracking, Mechanical Repair
Weapons of Choice: Bludgeon, Assault Rifle
4. Dr. Sayid - Medic. V. High Int.
Skills: Field Medic, Surgeon, Perception
Weapons of Choice: None (Learned SMG early on)
About 11 or 12 people - in addition to myself - decided to substitute an "in memoriam" instead of their own backer by-line in the credits. Enough, in fact, that they included an "in memoriam" by line in the credits (center justified and a much larger font) before the fire hose of backer names. Classy touch, gents.
posted by absalom at 5:57 AM on September 22, 2014
They really should've sent out an email or something to the forgetful folks like me - "Hey remember that game you were gonna get as a reward once it finally got released? It got released!"
They did - at least, that's how I found out about it. I had completely forgotten that I was getting a copy of Wasteland 2 with my Torment support until the email reminded me, so it was a very pleasant surprise.
I haven't really played it yet - I got through character creation, and the first conversation tree, and then couldn't figure out how to move. I left clicked, I right clicked, I ctrl-clicked (hello, everyone firing their limited ammo at the ground!), I tried WASD (moves the camera, not the people), and then I gave up and went to the Brewgrass Festival. As someone who gently scoffs at "kids today" with their in game tutorials, I found myself really wishing for a helpful pop up or tooltip.
After some googling, it looks like right-click should be the way to move? Which I definitely did. Maybe my install was buggy. I'll give it another shot tonight. Certainly nobody else seems to have this problem.
posted by Roommate at 6:52 AM on September 22, 2014
They did - at least, that's how I found out about it. I had completely forgotten that I was getting a copy of Wasteland 2 with my Torment support until the email reminded me, so it was a very pleasant surprise.
I haven't really played it yet - I got through character creation, and the first conversation tree, and then couldn't figure out how to move. I left clicked, I right clicked, I ctrl-clicked (hello, everyone firing their limited ammo at the ground!), I tried WASD (moves the camera, not the people), and then I gave up and went to the Brewgrass Festival. As someone who gently scoffs at "kids today" with their in game tutorials, I found myself really wishing for a helpful pop up or tooltip.
After some googling, it looks like right-click should be the way to move? Which I definitely did. Maybe my install was buggy. I'll give it another shot tonight. Certainly nobody else seems to have this problem.
posted by Roommate at 6:52 AM on September 22, 2014
Justinian, I think it's mainly to do with the age of my machine, with the rotation happening in jarring chunklets of 45° apiece.
Note that the keyboard "rotate camera" controls do one chunky 45 degree turn per keypress (with maybe a slow key-repeat thing going on if you hold it down?) but the middle-click-and-drag camera rotation control for the mouse is free rotation. I only use the latter because the former drives me craaaaaazy.
Haven't gotten very far in yet because I spent the weekend doing other weekendy stuff, but still having a marvelous time. Trying hard to force myself not to save scum too much; I'll save and try a new mechanic and reload if the result is just confusing and disastrous/wasteful in a stupid rather than bad-luck way, since I've misunderstood a couple skills the first time out, but otherwise I'm trying to avoid doing the "a bad thing could happen, I'll save...and now a bad thing did happen, I'll reload!" dance that I sometimes do when I'm really really invested in the idea of a game Going Well. I think the party system actually helps, there; it's less a feeling of getting things to go right for my Chosen One and more about seeing what happens with These People.
My best thing-I-didn't-reload-for so far (very minor sidequest spoilers for the Highpool area ahoy):
I am making my way through town and come across a very grumpy dude, grudgingly civil to my team because we did him a solid but doesn't trust us a bit because tell is fifteen years back a Ranger came into town and, among other things, shot a dog.
As soon as I get out of that uncomfortable conversation, I wander fifty feet and come across a growingly dog. But it's okay! My team's bruiser, Knuckles, has a soft spot for animals, and so he does a gimme skill check for Animal Whispering on the little mongrel to calm it down.
He has a critical failure, and the dog attacks, and we have to shoot it.
posted by cortex at 7:09 AM on September 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
Note that the keyboard "rotate camera" controls do one chunky 45 degree turn per keypress (with maybe a slow key-repeat thing going on if you hold it down?) but the middle-click-and-drag camera rotation control for the mouse is free rotation. I only use the latter because the former drives me craaaaaazy.
Haven't gotten very far in yet because I spent the weekend doing other weekendy stuff, but still having a marvelous time. Trying hard to force myself not to save scum too much; I'll save and try a new mechanic and reload if the result is just confusing and disastrous/wasteful in a stupid rather than bad-luck way, since I've misunderstood a couple skills the first time out, but otherwise I'm trying to avoid doing the "a bad thing could happen, I'll save...and now a bad thing did happen, I'll reload!" dance that I sometimes do when I'm really really invested in the idea of a game Going Well. I think the party system actually helps, there; it's less a feeling of getting things to go right for my Chosen One and more about seeing what happens with These People.
My best thing-I-didn't-reload-for so far (very minor sidequest spoilers for the Highpool area ahoy):
I am making my way through town and come across a very grumpy dude, grudgingly civil to my team because we did him a solid but doesn't trust us a bit because tell is fifteen years back a Ranger came into town and, among other things, shot a dog.
As soon as I get out of that uncomfortable conversation, I wander fifty feet and come across a growingly dog. But it's okay! My team's bruiser, Knuckles, has a soft spot for animals, and so he does a gimme skill check for Animal Whispering on the little mongrel to calm it down.
He has a critical failure, and the dog attacks, and we have to shoot it.
posted by cortex at 7:09 AM on September 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
I recruited Satchmo, King of the Hobos, into my party. Now everyone I walk up to is like "What is that smell? ... Oh, hi, Satchmo."
Really.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on September 22, 2014
Really.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on September 22, 2014
Wait, that Shadowrun game finally came out?
(Hmm. The only person who says anything about playing it in this thread doesn't like it.)
posted by klangklangston at 2:03 PM on September 22, 2014
(Hmm. The only person who says anything about playing it in this thread doesn't like it.)
posted by klangklangston at 2:03 PM on September 22, 2014
I had fun with the new Shadowrun, but I have no real history with the old video game or the pen and paper system beyond a general third-hand familiarity and a crystal clear memory of some friend in high school gushing about how cool and deadly a weapon the monofilament whip was. So I just sort of played it as a cyberpunk RPG. Was kinda combat-heavy and I found portions of the game system a little wonky and a couple points were confusing, and overall my impression is that the main campaign wasn't as flexible as they'd have liked it to be, but it was good solid old-school-redux fun in general.
The followup Berlin-centric DLC/campaign/whatever, Dragonfall, is supposed to be a lot more polished of a campaign and incorporates a bunch of post-release changes/additions they made to the underlying game engine; folks I know who had very specific expectations of the new Shadowrun seem to have found Dragonfall hitting closer to the mark in general. I haven't gotten to it yet beyond about an hour of play, so no real thoughts on that yet.
posted by cortex at 3:07 PM on September 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
The followup Berlin-centric DLC/campaign/whatever, Dragonfall, is supposed to be a lot more polished of a campaign and incorporates a bunch of post-release changes/additions they made to the underlying game engine; folks I know who had very specific expectations of the new Shadowrun seem to have found Dragonfall hitting closer to the mark in general. I haven't gotten to it yet beyond about an hour of play, so no real thoughts on that yet.
posted by cortex at 3:07 PM on September 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Wait, that Shadowrun game finally came out?
Shadowrun Returns is pretty great, and the DLC campaign, Dragonfall, is better in every way than the launch campaign.
I may be biased by being a long-time fan of the RPG, though I never cared for the SNES/Genesis games. I think isometric RPG fits it very well, and IMO it's one of the better candidates for basing an MMO or maybe co-op game on since the whole structure is teams going on missions.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:34 PM on September 22, 2014
Shadowrun Returns is pretty great, and the DLC campaign, Dragonfall, is better in every way than the launch campaign.
I may be biased by being a long-time fan of the RPG, though I never cared for the SNES/Genesis games. I think isometric RPG fits it very well, and IMO it's one of the better candidates for basing an MMO or maybe co-op game on since the whole structure is teams going on missions.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:34 PM on September 22, 2014
That sounds pretty up my alley, then. I loved the tabletop, never played the previous video game versions, and really like iso RPGs.
I guess the next question is whether it plays on a mac.
posted by klangklangston at 4:00 PM on September 22, 2014
I guess the next question is whether it plays on a mac.
posted by klangklangston at 4:00 PM on September 22, 2014
OSX System requirements according to Steam:
OS: OSX 10.6
Processor: Intel-based Macs only (x86-compatible, 1.4GHz or better)
Memory: 2 GB RAM
Hard disk space: 2 GB HD space
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:03 PM on September 22, 2014
OS: OSX 10.6
Processor: Intel-based Macs only (x86-compatible, 1.4GHz or better)
Memory: 2 GB RAM
Hard disk space: 2 GB HD space
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:03 PM on September 22, 2014
Yeah, the initial Shadowrun Returns game is okay and works as a proof-of-concept, but it really comes into its own with Dragonfall which is quite good.
posted by Justinian at 4:42 PM on September 22, 2014
posted by Justinian at 4:42 PM on September 22, 2014
What other said. Shadowrun Returns is not a bad game. Dragonfall is much better than Dead Mans Switch, but either of them very well manage to capture the spirit and heart of Shadowrun.
It was fun to play - it totally took me back to caffeine fueled late night gaming sessions listening to those new bands, Pearl Jam and Nirvana and playing Bonks Adventure or Military Madness on the off turns.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:30 PM on September 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
It was fun to play - it totally took me back to caffeine fueled late night gaming sessions listening to those new bands, Pearl Jam and Nirvana and playing Bonks Adventure or Military Madness on the off turns.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:30 PM on September 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think I was the one who derided Shadowrun, so I should point out two things:
1) I paid $5 bucks for it on sale, and it is definitely worth at least twice that. The story (of the first game/campaign) is well done and the Linux compatibility is huge for me. Still, I don't like the action-point 'lite' style as much in my CRPGs
2) The latest release 'Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut' does actually look pretty sweet, and may get a look from me eventually
posted by rosswald at 7:20 PM on September 23, 2014
1) I paid $5 bucks for it on sale, and it is definitely worth at least twice that. The story (of the first game/campaign) is well done and the Linux compatibility is huge for me. Still, I don't like the action-point 'lite' style as much in my CRPGs
2) The latest release 'Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut' does actually look pretty sweet, and may get a look from me eventually
posted by rosswald at 7:20 PM on September 23, 2014
I can only speak to the launch Dragonfall- the director's cut looks good, but I've got wl2 to play.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:43 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:43 PM on September 23, 2014
How good is Wasteland 2?
It's good enough that I just saw the FUCKING SUN IS UP. Goddamit.
posted by Justinian at 7:09 AM on September 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's good enough that I just saw the FUCKING SUN IS UP. Goddamit.
posted by Justinian at 7:09 AM on September 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Wasteland 2: If it ain't broke, go back in time and do it again.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:24 AM on September 24, 2014
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:24 AM on September 24, 2014
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Of course, I don't necessarily have time for a 40+ hour adventure, so I am going to have to ignore some sidequests, apparently. This will hurt my completionist soul.
posted by blahblahblah at 5:27 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]