Abomination
October 23, 2014 6:02 AM Subscribe
A prolific vandal has defiled natural features in at least ten US National Parks. And then posted about it on social media. Reddit is on the case.
While I applaud the crowdsourcing skills of Redditors, the comment way down at the bottom calling her a "self-entitled slut" is making me realize "oh right, that's why they're not turning their talents towards outing Gamergate harrassers."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:09 AM on October 23, 2014 [82 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:09 AM on October 23, 2014 [82 favorites]
So Reddit detectives are going to work on doxxing Banksy next, right?
posted by jbickers at 6:11 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by jbickers at 6:11 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Expunge petroglyphs now!
posted by fairmettle at 6:11 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by fairmettle at 6:11 AM on October 23, 2014
"I know, I'm a bad person" (the "LOL" is implied)
Yes, the stupid is strong in this one.
posted by Curious Artificer at 6:12 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Yes, the stupid is strong in this one.
posted by Curious Artificer at 6:12 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
While I applaud the crowdsourcing skills of Redditors, the comment way down at the bottom calling her a "self-entitled slut" is making me realize "oh right, that's why they're not turning their talents towards outing Gamergate harrassers."
I will admit that the white hot rage that this makes me feel did briefly make me want to see this woman get doxxed, and then I felt ashamed. Not as a gender thing, but just because it's horrible. #Weareallalmostgamergaters.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:12 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I will admit that the white hot rage that this makes me feel did briefly make me want to see this woman get doxxed, and then I felt ashamed. Not as a gender thing, but just because it's horrible. #Weareallalmostgamergaters.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:12 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Saw this on a friend's facebook feed. You have to wonder what someone like this is thinking.
Unless you've worked in a national park.
If you've worked there you know how truly ignorant, silly, egocentric, or just downright stupid some people can be. Nothing new honestly, since crazy and/or destructive things have been happening since the national parks system started, this is just an example of the awareness and care that people nowadays are able to leverage thanks, and due, to social media.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:12 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
Unless you've worked in a national park.
If you've worked there you know how truly ignorant, silly, egocentric, or just downright stupid some people can be. Nothing new honestly, since crazy and/or destructive things have been happening since the national parks system started, this is just an example of the awareness and care that people nowadays are able to leverage thanks, and due, to social media.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:12 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
The lengths some people will go to in order to get a FPP in Reddit
posted by clvrmnky at 6:13 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by clvrmnky at 6:13 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this person is pretty horrible, but the wrath of Reddit is literally something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
The redditors are offering to compound the vandal's damage by cleaning it up with wire brushes, rock-colored paint, and paint remover. I'm not sure there's anything reddit can't make worse.
posted by gladly at 6:17 AM on October 23, 2014 [38 favorites]
posted by gladly at 6:17 AM on October 23, 2014 [38 favorites]
Can't tell if existential howl masquerading as attention whoring or attention whoring masquerading as existential howl.
fry.jpg
posted by echocollate at 6:18 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
fry.jpg
posted by echocollate at 6:18 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
I'm glad Reddit is applying the restraint and careful sleuthing to this that they applied to finding the Boston Marathon bomber.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:19 AM on October 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
A prolific vandal has defiled natural features in at least ten US National Parks.
:-(
And then posted about it on social media.
>:-|
Reddit is on the case.
(╯°□°)╯︵-┻━┻
posted by Mayor West at 6:20 AM on October 23, 2014 [104 favorites]
:-(
And then posted about it on social media.
>:-|
Reddit is on the case.
(╯°□°)╯︵-┻━┻
posted by Mayor West at 6:20 AM on October 23, 2014 [104 favorites]
The reddit thing is a derail. Good work to the Modern Hiker site for doing actual journalism to document this person's wrong-doings. Hopefully dealing with reddit's "help" doesn't distract the actual investigators from finding her and putting her in jail jail jail.
The worst part is how crappy her doodles are imo.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [47 favorites]
The worst part is how crappy her doodles are imo.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [47 favorites]
Are you fucking kidding me right now? The national parks are not your cockamamie vanity project! I hope she does jail time.
Also her art work would be an abomination even if it wasn't disfiguring national treasures.
posted by Jess the Mess at 6:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
Also her art work would be an abomination even if it wasn't disfiguring national treasures.
posted by Jess the Mess at 6:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
This makes me so fucking angry. How dare someone think their "mark" is something other people want to see. I hate people who write their names on natural features, but they presumably are doing that for their own selfish want to see their name there later. This is worse - leaving "art" presumes others want to see it too - we fucking don't. I hope they find her and haul her into court.
posted by agregoli at 6:23 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 6:23 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
The redditors are offering to compound the vandal's damage by cleaning it up with wire brushes, rock-colored paint, and paint remover.
That seems a ungenerous characterization. People are asking what can be done, and other people are replying that those are bad ideas.
posted by smackfu at 6:23 AM on October 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
That seems a ungenerous characterization. People are asking what can be done, and other people are replying that those are bad ideas.
posted by smackfu at 6:23 AM on October 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
I'm not sure there's anything reddit can't make worse
That, apparently. I mean the whole thing is wrong on so many levels. But the name-calling? Disgusting.
posted by Namlit at 6:23 AM on October 23, 2014
That, apparently. I mean the whole thing is wrong on so many levels. But the name-calling? Disgusting.
posted by Namlit at 6:23 AM on October 23, 2014
Reddit is on the case
I feel about this phrase the way Ronald Reagan felt about "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:24 AM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
I feel about this phrase the way Ronald Reagan felt about "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:24 AM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
is wrong with humanity?
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Continued on next rock.
posted by MartinWisse at 6:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by MartinWisse at 6:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [11 favorites]
My facebook feed was FULL OF RAGE about this this morning.
If you're going to post your extremely illegal* graffiti all over social media, whyyyyyy would you sign it? (*As opposed to your typical moderately illegal but really no big deal graffiti on cinderblock buildings and viaducts and things in urban areas.) This is like the NAMBLA membership list of graffiti. "Hey, guys, I'm publicly announcing how much I like committing this particular crime, AND I'm putting my name on it just to make sure everyone knows it's me, AND it's a thing that all right-thinking people hate so people will definitely be pissed at me and want to see me go to jail!"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
If you're going to post your extremely illegal* graffiti all over social media, whyyyyyy would you sign it? (*As opposed to your typical moderately illegal but really no big deal graffiti on cinderblock buildings and viaducts and things in urban areas.) This is like the NAMBLA membership list of graffiti. "Hey, guys, I'm publicly announcing how much I like committing this particular crime, AND I'm putting my name on it just to make sure everyone knows it's me, AND it's a thing that all right-thinking people hate so people will definitely be pissed at me and want to see me go to jail!"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
Can't tell if existential howl masquerading as attention whoring or attention whoring masquerading as existential howl.
There's enough gendered grief on the reddit thread for everyone; let's maybe not bring it over here.
posted by griphus at 6:33 AM on October 23, 2014 [16 favorites]
There's enough gendered grief on the reddit thread for everyone; let's maybe not bring it over here.
posted by griphus at 6:33 AM on October 23, 2014 [16 favorites]
Once the Park Service catches up with her --- and they will, they will! --- there is no way in hell she can try to claim this is any kind of casual vandalism: she has been purposefully and deliberately hiking into multiple areas with backpacks full of her "art" supplies and cameras to record her criminal acts; her actions are clearly preplanned well in advance of her ever arriving at any specific park. I don't give a damn why this idiot thinks this is a good idea, I just hope the law comes down on her like a ton of bricks.
Just out of curiousity: I'm sure the Park Service will do all they can to mitigate these messes (for cryin' out loud, they're not even very good art!), but will it even be possible to remove without further damage?
posted by easily confused at 6:33 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Just out of curiousity: I'm sure the Park Service will do all they can to mitigate these messes (for cryin' out loud, they're not even very good art!), but will it even be possible to remove without further damage?
posted by easily confused at 6:33 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I will admit that the white hot rage that this makes me feel did briefly make me want to see this woman get doxxed, and then I felt ashamed.
Full disclosure - me too.
Although, I console myself with the knowledge that there was a recent instance of crowdsourced-vigilantism going right - that guy who tweeted screenshots from a security camera that caught a group of people committing a hate crime on a gay couple in Pennsylvania, and then people tracked down who they were on Facebook. He was able to get their addresses, but instead of doxxing them, he actually turned his entire collection of evidence over to police and they made an arrest.
....That's the kind of thing I'd do, I swear.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:34 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
Full disclosure - me too.
Although, I console myself with the knowledge that there was a recent instance of crowdsourced-vigilantism going right - that guy who tweeted screenshots from a security camera that caught a group of people committing a hate crime on a gay couple in Pennsylvania, and then people tracked down who they were on Facebook. He was able to get their addresses, but instead of doxxing them, he actually turned his entire collection of evidence over to police and they made an arrest.
....That's the kind of thing I'd do, I swear.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:34 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
posted by TedW at 6:36 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:36 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
The only reason you don't see comments like "self-entitled slut" here is the $5 and the moderation.
posted by thelonius at 6:37 AM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 6:37 AM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
And if it turned out to be da Vinci we'd be really excited. I'm not sure what your point is.
posted by Palindromedary at 6:38 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
And if it turned out to be da Vinci we'd be really excited. I'm not sure what your point is.
posted by Palindromedary at 6:38 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
As we would with most things that date that long ago, because they have serious anthropological value.
posted by JHarris at 6:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
As we would with most things that date that long ago, because they have serious anthropological value.
posted by JHarris at 6:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
I prefer the gender neutrality of "deplorable shitstain."
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2014 [27 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2014 [27 favorites]
So Reddit detectives are going to work on doxxing Banksy next, right?
Yes, because painting over twenty year-old paint on a wall is exactly like painting over million year-old rock formations. The back wall behind the abandoned Ace Hardware is exactly as important as a rock face in the Badlands.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2014 [51 favorites]
Yes, because painting over twenty year-old paint on a wall is exactly like painting over million year-old rock formations. The back wall behind the abandoned Ace Hardware is exactly as important as a rock face in the Badlands.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:40 AM on October 23, 2014 [51 favorites]
That's what I call fighting fire with fire.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 6:42 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 6:42 AM on October 23, 2014
SteveYuSpecialAgent
We are long overdue for a modern day Park Ranger tv drama. Give it a Handsome Family theme song and feature Special Agent Steve Yu dispensing sweet sweet taser justice to those who would defile our parks.
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 6:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
We are long overdue for a modern day Park Ranger tv drama. Give it a Handsome Family theme song and feature Special Agent Steve Yu dispensing sweet sweet taser justice to those who would defile our parks.
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 6:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
The "graffiti" from even hundreds of years ago was communicative - in an age before paper and 4G google networks, how do you mark a good place to hunt, or that has reliable water ?
This woman was only communicating that she was there.
Leave nothing, take nothing.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:44 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
The "graffiti" from even hundreds of years ago was communicative - in an age before paper and 4G google networks, how do you mark a good place to hunt, or that has reliable water ?
This woman was only communicating that she was there.
Leave nothing, take nothing.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:44 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
You have to wonder what someone like this is thinking.
Unless you've worked in a national park.
If you've worked there you know how truly ignorant, silly, egocentric, or just downright stupid some people can be.
You really, really don't need to have worked in a national park to know this. You just need to have dealt with people, period, or maybe, like, read about them once.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:45 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
Unless you've worked in a national park.
If you've worked there you know how truly ignorant, silly, egocentric, or just downright stupid some people can be.
You really, really don't need to have worked in a national park to know this. You just need to have dealt with people, period, or maybe, like, read about them once.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:45 AM on October 23, 2014 [22 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
Because it has scientific/sociological import. We don't need to study the scribblings of people who live today because we know what society is like today. What we don't know much about is what it was like in northern Utah, 800 BC, or in Ancient Rome 800 BC, or....
If we want to know what people in 800 BC thought, all we have is this graffiti they left. If we want to know what people today think, we have the Internet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Because it has scientific/sociological import. We don't need to study the scribblings of people who live today because we know what society is like today. What we don't know much about is what it was like in northern Utah, 800 BC, or in Ancient Rome 800 BC, or....
If we want to know what people in 800 BC thought, all we have is this graffiti they left. If we want to know what people today think, we have the Internet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way
Don't go down this road.... I know what you're going to say...
if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
Tapdancing christ. No, we wouldn't.
1) "Aggressively protect" is being very generous with regards to how we, as Americans or people in general, treat our wilderness areas with regards to keeping them pristine. So, flawed thinking there.
2) This is graffiti. The definition I see for graffiti is "writing or drawings scribbled, scratched, or sprayed illicitly on a wall or other surface in a public place"*. Keyword: illicitly. Assuming that cave paintings or other native art of the visual kind, while we can't ever know for sure I suppose, to be done illicitly is impetuous at best and wrongheaded at least.
3) If onlys and justs were were candies and nuts then everyday would be erntedankfest.
On preview:
You really, really don't need to have worked in a national park to know this.
Point given. It's just that when it occurs in a national park it can mean alot more of permanent damage to national treasures or death or mayhem for all parties involved. More so than locking your keys in your purse in the car or not passing on the left or something.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:48 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Don't go down this road.... I know what you're going to say...
if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
Tapdancing christ. No, we wouldn't.
1) "Aggressively protect" is being very generous with regards to how we, as Americans or people in general, treat our wilderness areas with regards to keeping them pristine. So, flawed thinking there.
2) This is graffiti. The definition I see for graffiti is "writing or drawings scribbled, scratched, or sprayed illicitly on a wall or other surface in a public place"*. Keyword: illicitly. Assuming that cave paintings or other native art of the visual kind, while we can't ever know for sure I suppose, to be done illicitly is impetuous at best and wrongheaded at least.
3) If onlys and justs were were candies and nuts then everyday would be erntedankfest.
On preview:
You really, really don't need to have worked in a national park to know this.
Point given. It's just that when it occurs in a national park it can mean alot more of permanent damage to national treasures or death or mayhem for all parties involved. More so than locking your keys in your purse in the car or not passing on the left or something.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:48 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
The "graffiti" from even hundreds of years ago was communicative - in an age before paper and 4G google networks, how do you mark a good place to hunt, or that has reliable water ?
Or just to memorialize where you took a shit three times!
posted by cmonkey at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
Or just to memorialize where you took a shit three times!
posted by cmonkey at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
So Reddit detectives are going to work on doxxing Banksy next, right?
posted by jbickers at 9:11 AM on October 23 [+] [!]
Expunge petroglyphs now!
posted by fairmettle at 9:11 AM on October 23 [+] [!]
I understand the knee-jerk "REDDIT LAWLS" reaction as much as the next person, but this woman did the equivalent of scrawling "LEROY WAS HERE" all over the Mona Lisa. The gender-specific slurs are shitty but the outrage is well-deserved. She's another variation of the guys who destroyed ancient rock formations in Utah.
(And if Banksy decided to mark up the Pyramids or Stonehenge, you can be sure he would get an Internet army on his ass tout de suite.)
posted by Anonymous at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by jbickers at 9:11 AM on October 23 [+] [!]
Expunge petroglyphs now!
posted by fairmettle at 9:11 AM on October 23 [+] [!]
I understand the knee-jerk "REDDIT LAWLS" reaction as much as the next person, but this woman did the equivalent of scrawling "LEROY WAS HERE" all over the Mona Lisa. The gender-specific slurs are shitty but the outrage is well-deserved. She's another variation of the guys who destroyed ancient rock formations in Utah.
(And if Banksy decided to mark up the Pyramids or Stonehenge, you can be sure he would get an Internet army on his ass tout de suite.)
posted by Anonymous at 6:53 AM on October 23, 2014
I saw this on reddit first and my first reaction was that they were doing their "good news everybody, a new woman to hate" thing, but then I saw the pictures and yep, it's pretty outrageous. Like open-mouthed-WTF once the page loads.
Doesn't help that the art is bad in the way that lets you imagine a really unflattering motive for the artist.
posted by postcommunism at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Doesn't help that the art is bad in the way that lets you imagine a really unflattering motive for the artist.
posted by postcommunism at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
Coprolites have value, therefore we should never remove feces from where it has been deposited.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Coprolites have value, therefore we should never remove feces from where it has been deposited.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:54 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm fascinated by the growth of this particular Outrage of the Week. Yes, the vandalism is awful. She should be caught and punished and stopped. But how weird is it that this is some sort of global phenomenon, a viral Facebook spread and a Reddit brigade and a Metafilter discussion tut-tutting. I mean millions of violations of the social contract happen every day, many with way more significant repercussions than this constrained vandalism. So why is this particular woman such a popular topic?
My theory is it's because she posted it on social media, as if to brag. And it meets a stereotype of vapid young people who have no idea how awful they are being. So it's fun to pillory her.
posted by Nelson at 6:55 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
My theory is it's because she posted it on social media, as if to brag. And it meets a stereotype of vapid young people who have no idea how awful they are being. So it's fun to pillory her.
posted by Nelson at 6:55 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
Or just to memorialize where you took a shit three times!
posted by cmonkey at 8:49 AM on October 23 [+] [!]
Palmyra, the thirst-quencher
Palmyra: it's got electrolytes!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:56 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by cmonkey at 8:49 AM on October 23 [+] [!]
Palmyra, the thirst-quencher
Palmyra: it's got electrolytes!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:56 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Can I ask, would it have been okay to draw in chalk? I assume chalk would come off well, but would it still be a problem?
posted by Thing at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Thing at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The "we wouldn't wipe out thousand year old wall grafitti" argument is so fucking terrible and stupid a comparison, I cannot believe we're still entertaining it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
I actually flinched seeing these. The most interesting, appropriate punishment I can think of is to have a dozen nature-loving tattoo artists work over the offender in question, across every square inch of bare skin, but I could settle for some sodium pentathol and the question, "Who do you think you are?" And I can now see the offender is some over-indulged white woman who is moved without friction by the need to express herself (whenever and wherever) and celebrate those expressions by sharing them with the entire, soon-to-be-adoring world.
One can only imagine how precious her defense in court will be. That's a transcript I would pay for.
posted by adipocere at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
One can only imagine how precious her defense in court will be. That's a transcript I would pay for.
posted by adipocere at 6:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Can I ask, would it have been okay to draw in chalk? I assume chalk would come off well, but would it still be a problem?
Take nothing but pictures. Leave nothing but footprints*.
If you follow that simple rule you're generally good. 'Tis not hard.
*If you have to take a shit, bury it and the toilet paper.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:58 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Take nothing but pictures. Leave nothing but footprints*.
If you follow that simple rule you're generally good. 'Tis not hard.
*If you have to take a shit, bury it and the toilet paper.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:58 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
...if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
You're right:
Ancient Cave Art Full of Teenage Graffiti
More recently:
Admire 17th Century Graffiti At Chumash Painting Cave State Historic Park
Proving the point:
You're right:
Ancient Cave Art Full of Teenage Graffiti
More recently:
Admire 17th Century Graffiti At Chumash Painting Cave State Historic Park
Proving the point:
Researchers are still working to record all of the signatures found on the walls of this passage. Unfortunately, many of the historic signatures have been covered by the spray paint of modern graffiti caused by vandals.posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:00 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Since National Parks wilderness needs to be all about her, I suggest the appropriate punishment is to drop her into the middle of Kluane.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:01 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 7:01 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Looks like the maximum punishment is a $100 fine or 3 months jail time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:01 AM on October 23, 2014
> Can I ask, would it have been okay to draw in chalk?
Chalk would have been less of a problem to me, personally, but even then she's scraping over lichen that took forever to grow on that rock, and intruding on other people's experience of what's supposed to be a common good.
There are other ways of leaving a mark. Most popular peaks have a cairn at top with a guestbook to sign, for example.
posted by postcommunism at 7:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
Chalk would have been less of a problem to me, personally, but even then she's scraping over lichen that took forever to grow on that rock, and intruding on other people's experience of what's supposed to be a common good.
There are other ways of leaving a mark. Most popular peaks have a cairn at top with a guestbook to sign, for example.
posted by postcommunism at 7:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
The other thing about the Banksy comparison is that there's little to nothing he's ever done that couldn't be wiped out with ten minutes and a can of paint or twenty minutes with a sandblaster. There's nowhere he's ever painted on that would cause anyone to throw up their hands and lament, "But it was so beautiful!" And maybe most importantly, he generally picks spots so downtrodden and rundown that he can reasonably be argued to have increased their value rather than damaged it.
That doesn't mean he can't and shouldn't be held responsible for vandalism, but his relatively ephemeral paintings on low value, often abandoned targets are a far cry from irreparably damaging eons old natural beauty.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
That doesn't mean he can't and shouldn't be held responsible for vandalism, but his relatively ephemeral paintings on low value, often abandoned targets are a far cry from irreparably damaging eons old natural beauty.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
Mod note: Yeah, maybe let's nip the debate over comments made not-on-MeFi in the bud, it's a bit tangential to the topic of the post I feel.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 7:04 AM on October 23, 2014
But it's street art maaaaaan ...
posted by GallonOfAlan at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by GallonOfAlan at 7:05 AM on October 23, 2014
The "graffiti" from even hundreds of years ago was communicative - in an age before paper and 4G google networks, how do you mark a good place to hunt, or that has reliable water ?
We saw graffiti carved on a canyon wall at Arches NP that had been left by Mormon settlers; it was more like "[Name] was here."
Because of the hawkwatch thing we do, we spend a lot of time at a high vantage point with very expensive optics, looking out over the Marin Headlands, which is part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, and we get to see people do appallingly stupid and often illegal shit. Just a couple weeks ago there was a runner who'd come up to the top of Hawk Hill, and then he hopped a fence (clearly, no reason for the fence to be there!) right in front of us, and when we hollered to him to ask him what he thought he was doing, he pointed to a trail some ways down the hill and said he wanted to go there. We explained that that trail was not a public trail, and in any case, he was wading around in an protected habitat that was not a trail; he insisted he wanted to get to *that* trail; we reiterated that that was not a public trail - and then we pointed to the park rangers who were not far away and said we could just go ask them if he could use that trail. He re-hopped the fence with much eye-rolling and left.
I'd like to see this woman fined and required to clean graffiti for a long while, and also to have to build and maintain trails and signage in national parks, and to do habitat restoration. Want to leave your mark? Fix that eroded trail; plant a hillside full of native plants after digging out the invasives.
posted by rtha at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2014 [24 favorites]
We saw graffiti carved on a canyon wall at Arches NP that had been left by Mormon settlers; it was more like "[Name] was here."
Because of the hawkwatch thing we do, we spend a lot of time at a high vantage point with very expensive optics, looking out over the Marin Headlands, which is part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, and we get to see people do appallingly stupid and often illegal shit. Just a couple weeks ago there was a runner who'd come up to the top of Hawk Hill, and then he hopped a fence (clearly, no reason for the fence to be there!) right in front of us, and when we hollered to him to ask him what he thought he was doing, he pointed to a trail some ways down the hill and said he wanted to go there. We explained that that trail was not a public trail, and in any case, he was wading around in an protected habitat that was not a trail; he insisted he wanted to get to *that* trail; we reiterated that that was not a public trail - and then we pointed to the park rangers who were not far away and said we could just go ask them if he could use that trail. He re-hopped the fence with much eye-rolling and left.
I'd like to see this woman fined and required to clean graffiti for a long while, and also to have to build and maintain trails and signage in national parks, and to do habitat restoration. Want to leave your mark? Fix that eroded trail; plant a hillside full of native plants after digging out the invasives.
posted by rtha at 7:06 AM on October 23, 2014 [24 favorites]
I wanted this person, whoever they were, to be drawn and quartered before I even got to the point of clicking on the link. I had assumed it was a male, so I guess I'm glad to have my gender-based preconceptions challenged... ?
posted by tempestuoso at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by tempestuoso at 7:07 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Looks like the maximum punishment is a $100 fine or 3 months jail time.
Hopefully that's per each specific instance of vandalism. Good thing she did such a good job documenting them all.
posted by adamp88 at 7:08 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
Hopefully that's per each specific instance of vandalism. Good thing she did such a good job documenting them all.
posted by adamp88 at 7:08 AM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'm not a huge outdoors person, but when I do go out in the wilderness I expect it to be, you know... wild. And I fully understand that the places I go are very actively managed (so the "wild" part is a bit of a fiction), but this is the kind of thing that, for me, would ruin a perfectly nice contemplative walk in the woods. I'm not entirely sure why it's so anger-inducing for me - probably because it's evidence that no place is safe, I guess. This rock isn't yours, what makes you think you're entitled to doing anything to it?
posted by backseatpilot at 7:08 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by backseatpilot at 7:08 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Looks like the maximum punishment is a $100 fine or 3 months jail time.
Per offense, no doubt. So she's looking at a moderate chunk of money and an extended stay in L'hôtel du Greybar, at the very least.
Frankly, I think she should be required to cough up for what it's going to cost to clean up after her stupid, vain ass, too.
posted by MissySedai at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Per offense, no doubt. So she's looking at a moderate chunk of money and an extended stay in L'hôtel du Greybar, at the very least.
Frankly, I think she should be required to cough up for what it's going to cost to clean up after her stupid, vain ass, too.
posted by MissySedai at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Esteemed Offendi: "We are long overdue for a modern day Park Ranger tv drama. Give it a Handsome Family theme song and feature Special Agent Steve Yu dispensing sweet sweet taser justice to those who would defile our parks."
I would watch this. Handsome rookie eye-candy Steve Yu, a city boy with a romantic's attachment to nature and idealistic misconceptions about a park ranger's job, could be partnered with a grouchy lady in her 50s or 60s, played by Tyne Daly, a woman raised in the Alaskan back country by a trapper, who's been been a park ranger and investigator for 30 years with lots of traditional knowledge but whose unorthodox methods and and prickly personality sometimes get her in hot water (illustrated by hottubbing in a geyser pool, obvs). Make it happen, CBS.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2014 [43 favorites]
I would watch this. Handsome rookie eye-candy Steve Yu, a city boy with a romantic's attachment to nature and idealistic misconceptions about a park ranger's job, could be partnered with a grouchy lady in her 50s or 60s, played by Tyne Daly, a woman raised in the Alaskan back country by a trapper, who's been been a park ranger and investigator for 30 years with lots of traditional knowledge but whose unorthodox methods and and prickly personality sometimes get her in hot water (illustrated by hottubbing in a geyser pool, obvs). Make it happen, CBS.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2014 [43 favorites]
What an awful thing to do. What an awful person.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:10 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
And now on her tumblr she's claiming she's an artist and her detractors are "mansplaining", so that's an awesome shitty co-opting of a legitimate term in order to defend her entirely selfish and gross behavior.
posted by Anonymous at 7:11 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by Anonymous at 7:11 AM on October 23, 2014
Meanwhile, Scott Wolter plans a new season of America Unearthed featuring his quest for the mysterious Templar Hipster that inscribed messages for the future on so many natural surfaces. "They look like they were painted just the other week," said the concrete geologist somehow turned Indiana Jones conspiracy nut, "But what if they were painted by a time traveler using, uh, no fading futuristic paints?"
When confronted with pictures of the artist painting the images, Wolter continued, "The Smithsonian and the National Parks service will stop at nothing to cover up America's secret history. They probably staged those pictures to throw the media off the scent."
Giorgio Tsoukalos, host of In Search of Aliens and producer of Ancient Aliens has a competing theory, but was not finished with hair and make-up at the time of this interview.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:13 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
When confronted with pictures of the artist painting the images, Wolter continued, "The Smithsonian and the National Parks service will stop at nothing to cover up America's secret history. They probably staged those pictures to throw the media off the scent."
Giorgio Tsoukalos, host of In Search of Aliens and producer of Ancient Aliens has a competing theory, but was not finished with hair and make-up at the time of this interview.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:13 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't know much about art.
I bet she doesn't. either.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:13 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I bet she doesn't. either.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:13 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
And now on her tumblr she's claiming she's an artist and her detractors are "mansplaining", so that's an awesome shitty co-opting of a legitimate term in order to defend her entirely selfish and gross behavior.
posted by schroedinger at 7:11 AM on October 2
That's not her Tumblr, that's a 4chan /pol/ guy pretending to be her, co-opting what stunted manchildren believe is the language of "social justice" in order to discredit it.
posted by Awful Peice of Crap at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [32 favorites]
posted by schroedinger at 7:11 AM on October 2
That's not her Tumblr, that's a 4chan /pol/ guy pretending to be her, co-opting what stunted manchildren believe is the language of "social justice" in order to discredit it.
posted by Awful Peice of Crap at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [32 favorites]
I never thought I would ever say this about something someone calls art, but a five year old could do better art and would at least have the excuse of not being a grown damn adult who should know better.
I will be delighted if she goes to jail.
posted by winna at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I will be delighted if she goes to jail.
posted by winna at 7:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Not about reddit really. "Vandalism reported in 10 national parks of the West"
If it weathers away easily it's not a problem. Like chalk art.
...from New York City. Ah.
I'd like dedicated urbanites to leave there edgewank mitts off of nature, nature is art - thinking that ego is art is I suppose fun but nobody built half-dome in midtown.
I'll keep my mountains and birds and fish and air and water and hills and rivers and streams and wildlife out of your cities ok? You can shop at Whole Foods and pretend.
Deal?
posted by vapidave at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2014
If it weathers away easily it's not a problem. Like chalk art.
...from New York City. Ah.
I'd like dedicated urbanites to leave there edgewank mitts off of nature, nature is art - thinking that ego is art is I suppose fun but nobody built half-dome in midtown.
I'll keep my mountains and birds and fish and air and water and hills and rivers and streams and wildlife out of your cities ok? You can shop at Whole Foods and pretend.
Deal?
posted by vapidave at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2014
Eyebrows McGee, since your protagonist appears to actually be the Tyne Daly character, perhaps you'd enjoy the books of Nevada Barr.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:18 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Artists who want to deface nature just need to learn better lobbying skills, like these folks have.
posted by Poldo at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by Poldo at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2014
Not that I don't dislike thoughtless, selfish people, but it might be worth considering whether tossing someone into the awful American prison system is really an especially good idea. There are loads of people who do things that are worse and require worse morals who I would not want to see jailed, and there are people who do things that are lots and lots and lots worse - like Henry Kissinger - who will never see the inside of a jail cell.
More than anything this just seems like a big case of the stupids. (I know someone who wheatpasted flyers all over a space which had generously allowed that person's organization to use the space for a big event, for example, and it was very vexing and thoughtless, but it was just "oh, this seems like a good idea and I have an enormous blind spot about something". So of course everyone had to go and scrape the flyers down and it was frustrating, but again, it was just a case of the stupids.)
What about a reasonable fine, some mandatory education and a good solid stretch of volunteer time fixing things in parks?
I think it's super easy to get really, really angry at someone who does something non-controversially bad like this, because it's fun for everyone to agree that they are just terrible, terrible, terrible - and because their wrongdoing does not actually threaten us. Like consider that asshole start-up boss from yesterday's post - many people now here on metafilter might have to work for people like that some time, so they are scarier because they are stupid and selfish and have a lot of power. This young woman just did something ignorant and entitled and has very little power, so it's easy to enjoy hating on her - it's not like she's going to come to our houses and deface them.
Which isn't to say that she doesn't seem annoying, or that I don't wonder what in god's name she could possibly have been thinking.
posted by Frowner at 7:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [31 favorites]
More than anything this just seems like a big case of the stupids. (I know someone who wheatpasted flyers all over a space which had generously allowed that person's organization to use the space for a big event, for example, and it was very vexing and thoughtless, but it was just "oh, this seems like a good idea and I have an enormous blind spot about something". So of course everyone had to go and scrape the flyers down and it was frustrating, but again, it was just a case of the stupids.)
What about a reasonable fine, some mandatory education and a good solid stretch of volunteer time fixing things in parks?
I think it's super easy to get really, really angry at someone who does something non-controversially bad like this, because it's fun for everyone to agree that they are just terrible, terrible, terrible - and because their wrongdoing does not actually threaten us. Like consider that asshole start-up boss from yesterday's post - many people now here on metafilter might have to work for people like that some time, so they are scarier because they are stupid and selfish and have a lot of power. This young woman just did something ignorant and entitled and has very little power, so it's easy to enjoy hating on her - it's not like she's going to come to our houses and deface them.
Which isn't to say that she doesn't seem annoying, or that I don't wonder what in god's name she could possibly have been thinking.
posted by Frowner at 7:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [31 favorites]
If it weathers away easily it's not a problem. Like chalk art.
There's a lot of "it depends". Chalk will wash away completely given time. Paints will certainly weather-away over time, but they will also stain the rock to varying degrees, depending on the pigments, chemical colorants, etc. And that isn't easy to mitigate without damaging the substrate.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:24 AM on October 23, 2014
There's a lot of "it depends". Chalk will wash away completely given time. Paints will certainly weather-away over time, but they will also stain the rock to varying degrees, depending on the pigments, chemical colorants, etc. And that isn't easy to mitigate without damaging the substrate.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:24 AM on October 23, 2014
Looks like the maximum punishment is a $100 fine or 3 months jail time.
This NY Times article has a few examples of people who are paying thousands of dollars in restitution to clean up their graffiti on NPS land.
posted by peeedro at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
This NY Times article has a few examples of people who are paying thousands of dollars in restitution to clean up their graffiti on NPS land.
posted by peeedro at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
If it weathers away easily it's not a problem. Like chalk art.
It's acrylic paint.
posted by thelonius at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's acrylic paint.
posted by thelonius at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Speaking as someone who spends a lot of time outdoors and who loves pure unspoiled nature more than anything, I don't think what she's done is really that bad. Based on the reactions I was expecting to see defacing of existing pictograms, or graffiti that's huge and permanent and highly visible. But really, a few silly little acrylic paintings, which chances are nobody will ever chance upon and which will be weathered away in a couple of years, isn't so so terrible. The strong reaction is good, because it's not something anybody should be doing, ever, but I don't think a vigilante mob is called for.
posted by Flashman at 7:28 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Flashman at 7:28 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
easily confused: "but will it even be possible to remove without further damage?"
The reddit thread actually discussed this a little bit, with comments from people who work in park conservation. They said sometimes graffiti can be removed pretty easily, sometimes not, and another option they often take advantage of is throwing mud or dirt on it to mute or hide the painting if it can't be removed.
Thing: "Can I ask, would it have been okay to draw in chalk? I assume chalk would come off well, but would it still be a problem?"
It would still be illegal; in some cases it would still have done damage from the scraping of the chalk on the rockface. The pigments or chalk itself might also damage delicate ecosystems (though probably invisibly in most cases). But I don't think public outrage would be at quite such a fever pitch for chalk drawings, and she might be more in for an official scolding for a stupid, illegal stunt instead of prosecution for a crime. The NPS also does note in their press release that they have places and ways for people to legally do art in National Parks.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:28 AM on October 23, 2014
The reddit thread actually discussed this a little bit, with comments from people who work in park conservation. They said sometimes graffiti can be removed pretty easily, sometimes not, and another option they often take advantage of is throwing mud or dirt on it to mute or hide the painting if it can't be removed.
Thing: "Can I ask, would it have been okay to draw in chalk? I assume chalk would come off well, but would it still be a problem?"
It would still be illegal; in some cases it would still have done damage from the scraping of the chalk on the rockface. The pigments or chalk itself might also damage delicate ecosystems (though probably invisibly in most cases). But I don't think public outrage would be at quite such a fever pitch for chalk drawings, and she might be more in for an official scolding for a stupid, illegal stunt instead of prosecution for a crime. The NPS also does note in their press release that they have places and ways for people to legally do art in National Parks.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:28 AM on October 23, 2014
peeedro: "This NY Times article has a few examples"
WHYYYYYYYY would you graffiti a cactus what is even the thought process there? IT IS A PLANT.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
WHYYYYYYYY would you graffiti a cactus what is even the thought process there? IT IS A PLANT.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Yeah... Regulations in Title 36:
36 CFR §1.3
36 CFR §2.31
posted by zennie at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2014
36 CFR §1.3
36 CFR §2.31
posted by zennie at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2014
"Chalk will wash away completely given time. Paints will certainly weather-away over time, but they will also stain the rock to varying degrees, depending on the pigments, chemical colorants, etc. And that isn't easy to mitigate without damaging the substrate."
Not to disagree. I made the comment in consideration of that climbers have, over the last few decades, been using chalk that matches the color of the rock that they climb. And climbers tend to appreciate their environment.
I was being as nice as I could manage. I think that the "artist" is a colossal fucking asshole.
posted by vapidave at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Not to disagree. I made the comment in consideration of that climbers have, over the last few decades, been using chalk that matches the color of the rock that they climb. And climbers tend to appreciate their environment.
I was being as nice as I could manage. I think that the "artist" is a colossal fucking asshole.
posted by vapidave at 7:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
If instead of painting pictures on walls, she were making wax sculptures out of kidnapped babies, it would still arguably be art, but it would also be a lot of other things that are very illegal (and for good reason). The question of whether or not it's art, or how good it is or isn't, is sort of the least constructive conversation to be having.
"I mean, I could cut her some slack if her wax baby sculpture were more lifelike, according to my completely subjective opinion, but she's got no talent based on her website pictures..."
The more press idiots like this get, the more imitators there will be, and that saddens me.
posted by tempestuoso at 7:42 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
"I mean, I could cut her some slack if her wax baby sculpture were more lifelike, according to my completely subjective opinion, but she's got no talent based on her website pictures..."
The more press idiots like this get, the more imitators there will be, and that saddens me.
posted by tempestuoso at 7:42 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Feminism means you can freely say that some women are just being assholes.
Like this one.
posted by emjaybee at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
Like this one.
posted by emjaybee at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [18 favorites]
If it weathers away easily it's not a problem. Like chalk art.
1. She's using acryllic paint.
2. The black crust she'd have scraped away to "prime" her "canvas" actually consists of thousand-year-old micro-organisms which are the some of the only life in an ecosystem that's existed for thousands of years.
3. Even if she did use some magic substance that weathered away easily and caused no harm to the environment, there's no guarantee that some other yutz who comes along and sees it and says "hey, neat, I'mma do that too" is also going to use a similarly eco-friendly substance.
In short - doesn't matter if it wears away easily it's still a shitty thing to do
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [12 favorites]
1. She's using acryllic paint.
2. The black crust she'd have scraped away to "prime" her "canvas" actually consists of thousand-year-old micro-organisms which are the some of the only life in an ecosystem that's existed for thousands of years.
3. Even if she did use some magic substance that weathered away easily and caused no harm to the environment, there's no guarantee that some other yutz who comes along and sees it and says "hey, neat, I'mma do that too" is also going to use a similarly eco-friendly substance.
In short - doesn't matter if it wears away easily it's still a shitty thing to do
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [12 favorites]
sio42: "can they give her a legal injunction against ever writing a book or selling rights to a movie or anything?"
Yes; some states have laws called "Son of Sam" laws that prohibit felons from profiting from telling the story of their felony. There's also some case law in other states where courts have ruled that a criminal can't profit from his crime by selling his story (relatedly, you can't collect life insurance payouts on someone you murder). Generally the First Amendment would allow her to TELL her story, but in many cases she would be automatically prohibited from receiving money for it, or else victims (probably the NPS) would have the option to sue to prevent it, or might have the option (as the harmed party) to demand the entire payment she would receive.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:44 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yes; some states have laws called "Son of Sam" laws that prohibit felons from profiting from telling the story of their felony. There's also some case law in other states where courts have ruled that a criminal can't profit from his crime by selling his story (relatedly, you can't collect life insurance payouts on someone you murder). Generally the First Amendment would allow her to TELL her story, but in many cases she would be automatically prohibited from receiving money for it, or else victims (probably the NPS) would have the option to sue to prevent it, or might have the option (as the harmed party) to demand the entire payment she would receive.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:44 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
...if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
It depends. If it had been done in area designated as protected, I doubt it. Only other thing I can think of would be if it had significant anthropological/political/historical value.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:46 AM on October 23, 2014
It depends. If it had been done in area designated as protected, I doubt it. Only other thing I can think of would be if it had significant anthropological/political/historical value.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:46 AM on October 23, 2014
I stand corrected. Thanks EmpressCallipygos.
posted by vapidave at 7:47 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by vapidave at 7:47 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
This young woman just did something ignorant and entitled and has very little power, so it's easy to enjoy hating on her - it's not like she's going to come to our houses and deface them.
I wish she would. If she did paint my house, it'd take 15 minutes with a pressure washer or some chemicals to strip it off. That's not the case here.
posted by peeedro at 7:55 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I wish she would. If she did paint my house, it'd take 15 minutes with a pressure washer or some chemicals to strip it off. That's not the case here.
posted by peeedro at 7:55 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's not her Tumblr, that's a 4chan /pol/ guy pretending to be her, co-opting what stunted manchildren believe is the language of "social justice" in order to discredit it.
Oh, that's good to know.
But really, a few silly little acrylic paintings, which chances are nobody will ever chance upon and which will be weathered away in a couple of years, isn't so so terrible.
It's not just about her graffiti. It's her and the thousands of similar assholes who leave their marks. You combine them all up and you get a park covered in shitty drawings made for someone's Instagram account.
posted by Anonymous at 7:57 AM on October 23, 2014
Oh, that's good to know.
But really, a few silly little acrylic paintings, which chances are nobody will ever chance upon and which will be weathered away in a couple of years, isn't so so terrible.
It's not just about her graffiti. It's her and the thousands of similar assholes who leave their marks. You combine them all up and you get a park covered in shitty drawings made for someone's Instagram account.
posted by Anonymous at 7:57 AM on October 23, 2014
I think it's super easy to get really, really angry at someone who does something non-controversially bad like this, because it's fun for everyone to agree that they are just terrible, terrible, terrible - and because their wrongdoing does not actually threaten us. Like consider that asshole start-up boss from yesterday's post - many people now here on metafilter might have to work for people like that some time, so they are scarier because they are stupid and selfish and have a lot of power. This young woman just did something ignorant and entitled and has very little power, so it's easy to enjoy hating on her - it's not like she's going to come to our houses and deface them.
Frowner
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. This comment doesn't seem to match up with reality.
You seem to be implying that people won't dare express anger or criticism at those with power, but that thread yesterday was full of people angry at what an asshole that guy was. You mention Kissinger: plenty of people, including, I'd wager, the vast majority of MeFites, would love to see him tried and jailed for his crimes.
People express fury at the misdeeds of the powerful all the time. The difference is it's impotent fury. That's not to say that you're wrong abut the punishment this woman should receive, I just find your characterization of this very odd because it seems demonstrably untrue. Look at the banking crisis and how many people calling for punishment of the people involved, and fury at their getting away without any.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:59 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Frowner
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. This comment doesn't seem to match up with reality.
You seem to be implying that people won't dare express anger or criticism at those with power, but that thread yesterday was full of people angry at what an asshole that guy was. You mention Kissinger: plenty of people, including, I'd wager, the vast majority of MeFites, would love to see him tried and jailed for his crimes.
People express fury at the misdeeds of the powerful all the time. The difference is it's impotent fury. That's not to say that you're wrong abut the punishment this woman should receive, I just find your characterization of this very odd because it seems demonstrably untrue. Look at the banking crisis and how many people calling for punishment of the people involved, and fury at their getting away without any.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:59 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
...climbers have, over the last few decades, been using chalk that matches the color of the rock that they climb. And climbers tend to appreciate their environment.
There was, maybe 20 years ago, a very limited interest in coloured chalk but I don't think that you can even buy it anymore. Climbers do appreciate the environment, but climbers are also creating permanent damage to the places they climb. Not just chalk, but drilling anchor bolts, removing trees, pulling down boulders, creating trails. It's tiny on the scale of the areas they're climbing - chances are you won't notice it unless you're also climbing - but it's damage that'll last longer than these paintings.
posted by Flashman at 8:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
There was, maybe 20 years ago, a very limited interest in coloured chalk but I don't think that you can even buy it anymore. Climbers do appreciate the environment, but climbers are also creating permanent damage to the places they climb. Not just chalk, but drilling anchor bolts, removing trees, pulling down boulders, creating trails. It's tiny on the scale of the areas they're climbing - chances are you won't notice it unless you're also climbing - but it's damage that'll last longer than these paintings.
posted by Flashman at 8:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Regarding the tumblr, it looks like it was her tumblr, as the article found some images there, but then she deleted it, and I'm guessing that's when someone snatched up the tumblr url and started making fake posts.
I don't think anything is going to happen to her. Judging by all the traveling and what not my guess - guess - is she's not hurting for money. Hopefully she apologizes and learns and moves on.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on October 23, 2014
I don't think anything is going to happen to her. Judging by all the traveling and what not my guess - guess - is she's not hurting for money. Hopefully she apologizes and learns and moves on.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on October 23, 2014
Not to condone this vandalism in any way, but if this had been done several thousand years ago we would be aggressively protecting her graffiti rather than criminalizing it.
Several thousand years ago almost the entire world was a natural park. We protect these spaces now for a reason.
posted by spaltavian at 8:05 AM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
Several thousand years ago almost the entire world was a natural park. We protect these spaces now for a reason.
posted by spaltavian at 8:05 AM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
Speaking as someone who spends a lot of time outdoors and who loves pure unspoiled nature more than anything, I don't think what she's done is really that bad.
Then you should understand that the thoughtless actions of her and people like her effects beyond the scope of some paint on rocks. They also have the effect of increasing restrictions and limiting access to public areas - because of vandalism and idiocy, trails are closed, areas restricted, and rules are made and enforced.
I don't think she should go to prison - I think she should be made to clean up her mess, and then other people's messes. I also think she should apologize to the rest of us who don't shit all over what little public land we do have left.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:06 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
Then you should understand that the thoughtless actions of her and people like her effects beyond the scope of some paint on rocks. They also have the effect of increasing restrictions and limiting access to public areas - because of vandalism and idiocy, trails are closed, areas restricted, and rules are made and enforced.
I don't think she should go to prison - I think she should be made to clean up her mess, and then other people's messes. I also think she should apologize to the rest of us who don't shit all over what little public land we do have left.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:06 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
Hopefully she apologizes and learns and moves on.
Oh, I suspect we'll hear a "sorry" out of her.
But it won't really be a "sorry I did that", it'll be more of a "sorry I got caught". I actually have stumbled across her Twitter, and she seems a bit thin in the self-reflection department.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:07 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Oh, I suspect we'll hear a "sorry" out of her.
But it won't really be a "sorry I did that", it'll be more of a "sorry I got caught". I actually have stumbled across her Twitter, and she seems a bit thin in the self-reflection department.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:07 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
What I want most would be for her to perform relevant community service during a social media blackout, i.e. while she's on site, the only communication device on her person will be a park phone/walkie. A fine would be nice, too. I don't see the benefit in sending her to prison, although I wouldn't exactly cry if she wound up there.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:12 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:12 AM on October 23, 2014
Oh, I suspect we'll hear a "sorry" out of her.
yeah maybe she'll write it on the side of the washington monument
posted by poffin boffin at 8:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
yeah maybe she'll write it on the side of the washington monument
posted by poffin boffin at 8:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
"While I applaud the crowdsourcing skills of Redditors, the comment way down at the bottom calling her a "self-entitled slut" is making me realize "oh right, that's why they're not turning their talents towards outing Gamergate harrassers.""
There's a reason that the comment is on the bottom. Because it's been downvoted and currently has -5 karma.
posted by I-baLL at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
There's a reason that the comment is on the bottom. Because it's been downvoted and currently has -5 karma.
posted by I-baLL at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
That fact that she signs every single one with what amounts to a logo makes it so much worse.
posted by spaltavian at 8:17 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by spaltavian at 8:17 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
vapidave: ...from New York City. Ah.
Wow. That's an unpleasant addition to the already-shitty mood of the thread. I can testify from first hand witnessing that a lot of non-big-city folks are quite disrespectful to the land. Or are you specifically giving the finger to NY for some unfathomable prejudice of your own?
EmpressC: it'll be more of a "sorry I got caught".
I suspect so too. I tend to agree with those saying the "throw her in the black hole of Calcutta" responses are just plain silly, but I do think she should be fined heavily and required to put in substantial public-service time cleaning everything she's defaced under the close supervision of a stern park-service taskmaster.
posted by aught at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Wow. That's an unpleasant addition to the already-shitty mood of the thread. I can testify from first hand witnessing that a lot of non-big-city folks are quite disrespectful to the land. Or are you specifically giving the finger to NY for some unfathomable prejudice of your own?
EmpressC: it'll be more of a "sorry I got caught".
I suspect so too. I tend to agree with those saying the "throw her in the black hole of Calcutta" responses are just plain silly, but I do think she should be fined heavily and required to put in substantial public-service time cleaning everything she's defaced under the close supervision of a stern park-service taskmaster.
posted by aught at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I thought that the giant green Parisian buttplug, along with its creator's other feces-themed work, wasn't Art -- until I was corrected. I thought all of Rothko's paintings weren't Art -- until I was corrected. So now there's this woman laying down crude drawings of faces on wilderness rocks: she says it's Art.
If her portraits were more Vermeer-like, Rembrandt-like, Goya-like -- would I then think of them as Art? Maybe it's precisely because of their apparent childish ineptitude that these paintings should be regarded as Art.
Yeah, maybe this is akin to Performance Art. Yes, I will believe that this is Art.
Also, I wouldn't be upset at all if she were dumped into the slammer for several months (or years).
posted by fredludd at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2014
If her portraits were more Vermeer-like, Rembrandt-like, Goya-like -- would I then think of them as Art? Maybe it's precisely because of their apparent childish ineptitude that these paintings should be regarded as Art.
Yeah, maybe this is akin to Performance Art. Yes, I will believe that this is Art.
Also, I wouldn't be upset at all if she were dumped into the slammer for several months (or years).
posted by fredludd at 8:24 AM on October 23, 2014
I am perpetually disappointed by how "performance art" has been degraded to "someone being an asshole in public".
posted by poffin boffin at 8:27 AM on October 23, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:27 AM on October 23, 2014 [19 favorites]
I would watch this. Handsome rookie eye-candy Steve Yu, a city boy with a romantic's attachment to nature and idealistic misconceptions about a park ranger's job, could be partnered with a grouchy lady in her 50s or 60s, played by Tyne Daly, a woman raised in the Alaskan back country by a trapper, who's been been a park ranger and investigator for 30 years with lots of traditional knowledge but whose unorthodox methods and and prickly personality sometimes get her in hot water (illustrated by hottubbing in a geyser pool, obvs).
The mystery section of my local library has at least three series of books about park rangers solving crimes and having romantic hijinks. I don't recall any of them as being amazing literature but any could probably be the basis of a decent TV show.
Speaking as someone who spends a lot of time outdoors and who loves pure unspoiled nature more than anything, I don't think what she's done is really that bad.
Most of the painting I've encountered on rocks has been huge "Class of [year]" paintings, but those are usually right by the road, not miles into protected areas. What is interesting is that she gets such intense outrage for a few paintings that will weather and wear away, while the impacts of totally legal and permitted mining and energy projects on public land will be visible forever and yet are only protested by a few committed environmentalists. Her clueless entitlement seems to rub people the wrong way much more intensely than its actual impact would suggest.
I'm not a big fan of tossing people in jail, but I agree with those suggesting a long stretch of time spent rehabilitating and restoring public land would be a good outcome.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
The mystery section of my local library has at least three series of books about park rangers solving crimes and having romantic hijinks. I don't recall any of them as being amazing literature but any could probably be the basis of a decent TV show.
Speaking as someone who spends a lot of time outdoors and who loves pure unspoiled nature more than anything, I don't think what she's done is really that bad.
Most of the painting I've encountered on rocks has been huge "Class of [year]" paintings, but those are usually right by the road, not miles into protected areas. What is interesting is that she gets such intense outrage for a few paintings that will weather and wear away, while the impacts of totally legal and permitted mining and energy projects on public land will be visible forever and yet are only protested by a few committed environmentalists. Her clueless entitlement seems to rub people the wrong way much more intensely than its actual impact would suggest.
I'm not a big fan of tossing people in jail, but I agree with those suggesting a long stretch of time spent rehabilitating and restoring public land would be a good outcome.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:28 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't tour mining projects looking for the natural beauty there.
posted by agregoli at 8:34 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by agregoli at 8:34 AM on October 23, 2014
I'll never forgive Kissinger for what he did to Pinnacles. Also the secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos.
Those too.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:36 AM on October 23, 2014
Those too.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:36 AM on October 23, 2014
What is interesting is that she gets such intense outrage for a few paintings that will weather and wear away, while the impacts of totally legal and permitted mining and energy projects on public land will be visible forever and yet are only protested by a few committed environmentalists.
I don't think we have to make it an either/or. Both should be (and are by many of us) condemned.
Her clueless entitlement seems to rub people the wrong way much more intensely than its actual impact would suggest.
Well, sure. A single person exists on a scale we think we as individuals can do something about, maybe even personally. Most folks these days meanwhile have corporation-crimes fatigue and the sense that nothing can possibly be done about crimes against nature committed on that large a scale.
posted by aught at 8:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think we have to make it an either/or. Both should be (and are by many of us) condemned.
Her clueless entitlement seems to rub people the wrong way much more intensely than its actual impact would suggest.
Well, sure. A single person exists on a scale we think we as individuals can do something about, maybe even personally. Most folks these days meanwhile have corporation-crimes fatigue and the sense that nothing can possibly be done about crimes against nature committed on that large a scale.
posted by aught at 8:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
and then he hopped a fence (clearly, no reason for the fence to be there!)In my head your story now takes place at G.K. Chesterton National Park.
posted by roystgnr at 8:39 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Actually, you could even argue that Kissinger was indirectly responsible for damaging at least one major archaeological site (the Plain of Jars), so you can add that to his tally.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:43 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
> vapidave: ...from New York City. Ah.
Wow. That's an unpleasant addition to the already-shitty mood of the thread.
Yeah, somehow I missed that. Vapidave: I'm a New Yorker and I'm incensed at what she's doing (and actually in this very thread explained to you why this was bad when YOU YOURSELF seemed to imply this wasn't a big deal because you thought she was using chalk). I think we New Yorkers deserve an apology, maybe?
Anyway:
I confess to doing a little bit of Internet sleuthing just now, and am taking a bit of a different tack; I've managed to find a Twitter account for a friend of hers with an active Flickr account, where he shows off some actually quite-cool photos he takes of abandoned places. He's definitely a friend of hers - they follow each other on Twitter, and he's got a couple of pictures of her in his Flickr feed.
I've tweeted to him to please maybe take her aside and get her to knock this off. Trying to be polite, never insulting her, even allowing that maybe she thought she was using safe paint or something ("no guarantee that the person who sees her stuff and says 'me too' will do the same"). You know, more of a "this is gonna get ugly, she may wanna give in sooner and spare herself" kind of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Wow. That's an unpleasant addition to the already-shitty mood of the thread.
Yeah, somehow I missed that. Vapidave: I'm a New Yorker and I'm incensed at what she's doing (and actually in this very thread explained to you why this was bad when YOU YOURSELF seemed to imply this wasn't a big deal because you thought she was using chalk). I think we New Yorkers deserve an apology, maybe?
Anyway:
I confess to doing a little bit of Internet sleuthing just now, and am taking a bit of a different tack; I've managed to find a Twitter account for a friend of hers with an active Flickr account, where he shows off some actually quite-cool photos he takes of abandoned places. He's definitely a friend of hers - they follow each other on Twitter, and he's got a couple of pictures of her in his Flickr feed.
I've tweeted to him to please maybe take her aside and get her to knock this off. Trying to be polite, never insulting her, even allowing that maybe she thought she was using safe paint or something ("no guarantee that the person who sees her stuff and says 'me too' will do the same"). You know, more of a "this is gonna get ugly, she may wanna give in sooner and spare herself" kind of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The worst part is how crappy her doodles are imo.
The amazing thing, actually, is that as crappy as her doodles are, that is not at all the worst part.
posted by The Bellman at 8:56 AM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
The amazing thing, actually, is that as crappy as her doodles are, that is not at all the worst part.
posted by The Bellman at 8:56 AM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
wasn't Art
I don't really think it matters if this was art or not, or that debate is actually meaningful. "Art" doesn't, or at least shouldn't, imply automatic acceptability or importance. Sure this is art. It's bad art. It's disrespectful, in the wrong context and not technically impressive. Whether we call it art or not doesn't change any of that; but that line of thinking is why people like this think they are entitled: that art somehow gets to trump all the other rules of human interaction.
posted by spaltavian at 9:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
I don't really think it matters if this was art or not, or that debate is actually meaningful. "Art" doesn't, or at least shouldn't, imply automatic acceptability or importance. Sure this is art. It's bad art. It's disrespectful, in the wrong context and not technically impressive. Whether we call it art or not doesn't change any of that; but that line of thinking is why people like this think they are entitled: that art somehow gets to trump all the other rules of human interaction.
posted by spaltavian at 9:02 AM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
> yeah maybe she'll write it on the side of the washington monument
That would not at all bother me like this bothers me.
To be honest, Flashman has a point:
> Climbers do appreciate the environment, but climbers are also creating permanent damage to the places they climb.
But that's it; climbers are part of a loose community (first climbers, then the general set of people who like the out of doors) which is assumed to have some basic but deeply-held values in common. That community is why I, a non-hunter, can look at someone who shoots things for fun and still think "hey, at least we'll both vote in favor of Yosemite if it comes down to it." This woman looks like she should be part of that community (not just her gear or anything, but in being the kind of person who goes to these places at all), but she's violating a pretty serious taboo.
Her violation is not only disrespectful (and fwiw, I know "disrespectful" can be a really loaded complaint), it's seen as spending away what should be a shared good for selfish reasons, and spending away a small bit of the values which protect that shared good. Correct or not, there is a sense that this is blithely destructive and somewhat irreversible.
My own reaction to this is visceral in large part because of my upbringing rather than because of a reasoned measure of the status and acceptable usage of national parks, and I will totally cop to that. But the reaction is totally and immediately: no no no, wrong.
posted by postcommunism at 9:03 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
That would not at all bother me like this bothers me.
To be honest, Flashman has a point:
> Climbers do appreciate the environment, but climbers are also creating permanent damage to the places they climb.
But that's it; climbers are part of a loose community (first climbers, then the general set of people who like the out of doors) which is assumed to have some basic but deeply-held values in common. That community is why I, a non-hunter, can look at someone who shoots things for fun and still think "hey, at least we'll both vote in favor of Yosemite if it comes down to it." This woman looks like she should be part of that community (not just her gear or anything, but in being the kind of person who goes to these places at all), but she's violating a pretty serious taboo.
Her violation is not only disrespectful (and fwiw, I know "disrespectful" can be a really loaded complaint), it's seen as spending away what should be a shared good for selfish reasons, and spending away a small bit of the values which protect that shared good. Correct or not, there is a sense that this is blithely destructive and somewhat irreversible.
My own reaction to this is visceral in large part because of my upbringing rather than because of a reasoned measure of the status and acceptable usage of national parks, and I will totally cop to that. But the reaction is totally and immediately: no no no, wrong.
posted by postcommunism at 9:03 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's tiny on the scale of the areas they're climbing - chances are you won't notice it unless you're also climbing...
Maybe true in some places. Definitely not true in others. Chalk in caves tends to be prominent and permanent, and several caves have been closed to climbers because of it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:10 AM on October 23, 2014
Maybe true in some places. Definitely not true in others. Chalk in caves tends to be prominent and permanent, and several caves have been closed to climbers because of it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:10 AM on October 23, 2014
I'm actually trying to engage another person in online conversation - saw him on Facebook asking "if anyone knows Casey, please put her in touch with me, I'd like to chat about how she's got the right idea but just the wrong area". I expressed my doubt she'd care about that, and he got rather upset.
And I pointed out that look - if she really were interested in a Banksy-style kind of thing, she'd have done her work in a more urban area where people actually could SEE it. If she instead were interested in an environmental/earthworks kind of thing, she'd have been working with the parks service to ensure she didn't cause damage (about which, more later). As she's done neither, all this leaves is a selfish "look what I did!" for a motivation, and fuck that.
As for climbers and the damage they do - well, hell, actually putting paths for hikers does "damage" as well. Or building visitors centers, or parking lots for their cars. The thing is, though, that climbers - like the people who build infrastructure on national parkland - are working with the parks service, to ensure that the damage they do is low-impact, confined to only certain proscribed areas, and kept clear of the most fragile areas.
The only way to keep national parkland ABSOLUTELY pristine is to wall it off and keep everyone out forever, and if you do that then people will start forgetting what the point of leaving it pristine was. Instead, better to work with the stewards so they can help you make sure that if you're going to be in the space, you are in the space in a way that doesn't fuck it up.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
And I pointed out that look - if she really were interested in a Banksy-style kind of thing, she'd have done her work in a more urban area where people actually could SEE it. If she instead were interested in an environmental/earthworks kind of thing, she'd have been working with the parks service to ensure she didn't cause damage (about which, more later). As she's done neither, all this leaves is a selfish "look what I did!" for a motivation, and fuck that.
As for climbers and the damage they do - well, hell, actually putting paths for hikers does "damage" as well. Or building visitors centers, or parking lots for their cars. The thing is, though, that climbers - like the people who build infrastructure on national parkland - are working with the parks service, to ensure that the damage they do is low-impact, confined to only certain proscribed areas, and kept clear of the most fragile areas.
The only way to keep national parkland ABSOLUTELY pristine is to wall it off and keep everyone out forever, and if you do that then people will start forgetting what the point of leaving it pristine was. Instead, better to work with the stewards so they can help you make sure that if you're going to be in the space, you are in the space in a way that doesn't fuck it up.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Disclaimer PS to a comment above:
"The thing is, though, that climbers - like the people who build infrastructure on national parkland - are working with the parks service, to ensure that the damage they do is low-impact, confined to only certain proscribed areas, and kept clear of the most fragile areas. "
That is to say, most climbers. There are always dumbshits in every group.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2014
"The thing is, though, that climbers - like the people who build infrastructure on national parkland - are working with the parks service, to ensure that the damage they do is low-impact, confined to only certain proscribed areas, and kept clear of the most fragile areas. "
That is to say, most climbers. There are always dumbshits in every group.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:15 AM on October 23, 2014
I thought that the giant green Parisian buttplug, along with its creator's other feces-themed work, wasn't Art -- until I was corrected. I thought all of Rothko's paintings weren't Art -- until I was corrected. So now there's this woman laying down crude drawings of faces on wilderness rocks: she says it's Art.
It's clearly art. If a rock band sets up a stage down the street from my house and plays a raucous set at 3am on a sunday night, that is also art. There's a time and a place for art, though.
posted by empath at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's clearly art. If a rock band sets up a stage down the street from my house and plays a raucous set at 3am on a sunday night, that is also art. There's a time and a place for art, though.
posted by empath at 9:31 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
But the reaction is totally and immediately: no no no, wrong.
I agree. For some reason it keeps bringing to mind someone who checks out library books, even the ones you have to ask someone with white gloves to go and get for you, and then, when no one is looking, defaces random pages before returning them.
It doesn't matter if it's in on the blank back page of an original Thoreau journal manuscript or in a copy of Green Eggs and Ham that's just one of a bazillion printed. It's wrong and just triggers that 'no no no, wrong' reaction in me.
Out of curiosity, does this comparison make sense to others? I don't know why but it seems especially apt for some reason, fraught as comparisons always are.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:34 AM on October 23, 2014 [9 favorites]
I agree. For some reason it keeps bringing to mind someone who checks out library books, even the ones you have to ask someone with white gloves to go and get for you, and then, when no one is looking, defaces random pages before returning them.
It doesn't matter if it's in on the blank back page of an original Thoreau journal manuscript or in a copy of Green Eggs and Ham that's just one of a bazillion printed. It's wrong and just triggers that 'no no no, wrong' reaction in me.
Out of curiosity, does this comparison make sense to others? I don't know why but it seems especially apt for some reason, fraught as comparisons always are.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:34 AM on October 23, 2014 [9 favorites]
If she does spend three months in jail I have this idea of her happily including that on her CV, and even declaring serving the time to be part of the art project.
If I'm not mistaken (NAL) a prosecutor can add various malicious mischief charges to beef up the sentence if he/she really wants to make an example. The premeditated and repeated nature of it gives, I suspect, a lot of prosecutorial leeway.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:36 AM on October 23, 2014
If I'm not mistaken (NAL) a prosecutor can add various malicious mischief charges to beef up the sentence if he/she really wants to make an example. The premeditated and repeated nature of it gives, I suspect, a lot of prosecutorial leeway.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:36 AM on October 23, 2014
Of course it's art. So what? I don't see how that matters here at all.
I can understand the "and it's not even good art!" comments a little bit more, since that means she's doing something awful without even talent to explain her arrogance. But even that is still icing on the cake, not the cake itself. If Leonardo Da Vinci had carved the Mona Lisa into my stomach with a rusty shiv, I wouldn't be saying thank you.
posted by kyrademon at 9:38 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I can understand the "and it's not even good art!" comments a little bit more, since that means she's doing something awful without even talent to explain her arrogance. But even that is still icing on the cake, not the cake itself. If Leonardo Da Vinci had carved the Mona Lisa into my stomach with a rusty shiv, I wouldn't be saying thank you.
posted by kyrademon at 9:38 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Christo what an....
posted by stevil at 9:42 AM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by stevil at 9:42 AM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
The quality of her work --- is it or isn't it 'real' art --- is actually beside the point here. Yeah, I think this moron's work is at about the artistic level of the average thug who spray-paints his name on the side of a delivery truck, but even if she was as good as any Rembrant or Michaelangelo or Monet, she'd still be totally in the wrong.
A few days ago, there was a article in the Washington Post about a mosaic artist: he created a 4ft wide and 8ft tall mosaic (of his dog), carted it to a local church, and chained it to the church's front steps as well as to a large steel tub he then filled with sand and bricks. When the church discovered it --- he never asked permission to put the mosaic on their property; the church considered it a safety hazard they didn't want chained to their front steps; the artist just did it because "that's kind of what I do" --- they politely asked him to remove it. The artist got offended at their "lack of gratitude" when the church removed the mosaic and put it in storage until he finally came to get it ...... well heck.
This fool desecrating our national parks for her stupid blog has that same kind of entitled 'I'm an artiste, you peasant' attitude at that mosaic artist; both were defacing other people's property. The difference is, his 8ft-tall mosaic of his dog was a lot easier to remove than her awful acrylic-paint graffiti will be.
posted by easily confused at 9:48 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
A few days ago, there was a article in the Washington Post about a mosaic artist: he created a 4ft wide and 8ft tall mosaic (of his dog), carted it to a local church, and chained it to the church's front steps as well as to a large steel tub he then filled with sand and bricks. When the church discovered it --- he never asked permission to put the mosaic on their property; the church considered it a safety hazard they didn't want chained to their front steps; the artist just did it because "that's kind of what I do" --- they politely asked him to remove it. The artist got offended at their "lack of gratitude" when the church removed the mosaic and put it in storage until he finally came to get it ...... well heck.
This fool desecrating our national parks for her stupid blog has that same kind of entitled 'I'm an artiste, you peasant' attitude at that mosaic artist; both were defacing other people's property. The difference is, his 8ft-tall mosaic of his dog was a lot easier to remove than her awful acrylic-paint graffiti will be.
posted by easily confused at 9:48 AM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
"I know, I'm a bad person" could so easily become a meme. But I'm not going to describe the form it would take, use your imagination.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:50 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:50 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
"I know, I'm a bad person" could so easily become a meme. But I'm not going to describe the form it would take, use your imagination.
I am bad. I am wrong. I am evil. Perfection is not the enemy of the good - I am. I literally worship at the blood-caked altar of evil. I rejoice in the blood of innocence - the stench of decay - the final episode of Roseanne. I literally murder people, while shouting, "this is a good thing that I am doing", but then my eyes glow red, and I later say, "I was actually lying, I don't think murder is very good at all, I am simply doing this because I genuinely love bad things". I drive slow in the fast lane. I roll coal onto bikers. I bike the wrong way down the street, and then I yell at the pedestrians I almost hit. I kick puppies. I punch the puppies in mid-air, as they fly in the air from my kicks. I put sugar in salt shakers. I put salt in sugar shakers. I softly, daintily touch raw steaks with my creepy, long, prehensile penis. I upload movie scenes to YouTube, and they come up first when you search for them, but they're all just phonecam footage of a TV playing the scene, or they have stupid music dubbed over them. I have the Holocaust tattooed on my back, but underneath it I also deny the Holocaust. I am the nasty little boy who took a dump in the urinal, and then blamed it on you. I steal things I don't need. I donate money to payday loan places. I am mean to rocks. I ate the food from the office fridge, and I don't even work there.
I know, I'm a bad person.
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [11 favorites]
I am bad. I am wrong. I am evil. Perfection is not the enemy of the good - I am. I literally worship at the blood-caked altar of evil. I rejoice in the blood of innocence - the stench of decay - the final episode of Roseanne. I literally murder people, while shouting, "this is a good thing that I am doing", but then my eyes glow red, and I later say, "I was actually lying, I don't think murder is very good at all, I am simply doing this because I genuinely love bad things". I drive slow in the fast lane. I roll coal onto bikers. I bike the wrong way down the street, and then I yell at the pedestrians I almost hit. I kick puppies. I punch the puppies in mid-air, as they fly in the air from my kicks. I put sugar in salt shakers. I put salt in sugar shakers. I softly, daintily touch raw steaks with my creepy, long, prehensile penis. I upload movie scenes to YouTube, and they come up first when you search for them, but they're all just phonecam footage of a TV playing the scene, or they have stupid music dubbed over them. I have the Holocaust tattooed on my back, but underneath it I also deny the Holocaust. I am the nasty little boy who took a dump in the urinal, and then blamed it on you. I steal things I don't need. I donate money to payday loan places. I am mean to rocks. I ate the food from the office fridge, and I don't even work there.
I know, I'm a bad person.
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:14 AM on October 23, 2014 [11 favorites]
Ummmm, screw that affluenza shit. Someone who messes up national parks like this is at least as deserving of jail time as a large percentage of people who are currently being jailed.
Yes, and actually the very point of my comment was precisely that many people who currently are jailed don't deserve to be, and many who do are not, and that therefore baying for our - shitty, violent, destructive - prison system to resolve a case of stupid but small environmental destruction isn't exactly making things any better. I am rarely enthused by "let's throw [random person who committed an ugly but petty crime] in the clink for months and months", not least because I know very well from activism on this issue that prison does not make things better.
posted by Frowner at 10:32 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yes, and actually the very point of my comment was precisely that many people who currently are jailed don't deserve to be, and many who do are not, and that therefore baying for our - shitty, violent, destructive - prison system to resolve a case of stupid but small environmental destruction isn't exactly making things any better. I am rarely enthused by "let's throw [random person who committed an ugly but petty crime] in the clink for months and months", not least because I know very well from activism on this issue that prison does not make things better.
posted by Frowner at 10:32 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I don't know, she seems like someone who might actually benefit from some reality in the form of jail time in her life. Whereas most prison inmates have probably had too much reality in their lives. I do like the idea of making her fix her mistakes (and pay to fix them) herself, though, as suggested upthread.
posted by Jess the Mess at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Jess the Mess at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
I'm usually not in favor of jail time for most non-violent crimes but I really hope they catch this woman and make an example of her and she goes to jail for a year or two. Maybe not super-violent Shawshank, but at least put her in a jail like on Orange is the New Black where it's just miserable enough and she can sit there and think about what she's done.
Fuck this awful person and fuck their "art."
posted by bondcliff at 10:47 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Fuck this awful person and fuck their "art."
posted by bondcliff at 10:47 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos: As for climbers and the damage they do - well, hell, actually putting paths for hikers does "damage" as well. Or building visitors centers, or parking lots for their cars. The thing is, though, that climbers - like the people who build infrastructure on national parkland - are working with the parks service, to ensure that the damage they do is low-impact, confined to only certain proscribed areas, and kept clear of the most fragile areas.
stevil: Christo what an....
Actually .... both of these comments are related. Christo went through an extensive environmental evaluation for his proposed project Over the River. Here is BLM's page on the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA), which opens with a good general overview of what NEPA is:
posted by filthy light thief at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
stevil: Christo what an....
Actually .... both of these comments are related. Christo went through an extensive environmental evaluation for his proposed project Over the River. Here is BLM's page on the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA), which opens with a good general overview of what NEPA is:
NEPA establishes a public, interdisciplinary framework for Federal decision-making and ensures that agencies (BLM and all other agencies) take environmental factors into account when considering Federal actions. NEPA does not mandate protection of the environment. Instead, it requires agencies to follow a particular process in making decisions and to disclose the information/data that was used to support those decisions.And here is a NPS page on NEPA. Welcome to the world of environmental* review (*where "environment" is a broad term, which includes consideration for Potentially-Affected Groups and Individuals, Socio-economics, and Environmental Justice).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:57 AM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
not least because I know very well from activism on this issue that prison does not make things better.
No, but a couple of weeks of "jail on weekends" might give her a little needed dose of reality. I certainly don't support putting her into actual prison.
posted by spaltavian at 10:58 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
No, but a couple of weeks of "jail on weekends" might give her a little needed dose of reality. I certainly don't support putting her into actual prison.
posted by spaltavian at 10:58 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I had to laugh that my immediate visceral response to this was "God, I fucking hate art," which says a lot about where I landed after seventeen years working in the arts.
Of course, there is a little 33 year-old art deco masterpiece of mine on a backstage stairwell wall in the Kennedy Center For the Performing Arts in DC that reads, with great flourishes, "The Astounding Joe Wall Was Here, 1981," but that's all PR, baby, not art.
posted by sonascope at 11:07 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Of course, there is a little 33 year-old art deco masterpiece of mine on a backstage stairwell wall in the Kennedy Center For the Performing Arts in DC that reads, with great flourishes, "The Astounding Joe Wall Was Here, 1981," but that's all PR, baby, not art.
posted by sonascope at 11:07 AM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Christo went through an extensive environmental evaluation for his proposed project Over the River.
Hah! See? This. I've been saying this exact thing to her defenders elsewhere.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:13 AM on October 23, 2014
Hah! See? This. I've been saying this exact thing to her defenders elsewhere.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:13 AM on October 23, 2014
Yes, there's a process for federal actions (see the list of Actions Requiring NEPA Analysis from NPS), and possibly additional concerns in certain states and state areas.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:17 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by filthy light thief at 11:17 AM on October 23, 2014
"We are long overdue for a modern day Park Ranger tv drama. Give it a Handsome Family theme song and feature Special Agent Steve Yu dispensing sweet sweet taser justice to those who would defile our parks."
And constantly be overshadowed by the Fish and Wildlife Officer who gets in exciting gun battles and shit (FWS officers are the LEOs most likely to be killed on duty, mostly by poachers).
"We explained that that trail was not a public trail, and in any case, he was wading around in an protected habitat that was not a trail; he insisted he wanted to get to *that* trail; we reiterated that that was not a public trail - and then we pointed to the park rangers who were not far away and said we could just go ask them if he could use that trail. He re-hopped the fence with much eye-rolling and left."
Christ, in July I was up in Olympic National Park heading up the Hurricane Ridge trail with my fiancee's family and there were ALL THE FUCKING SIGNS about how people weren't supposed to go off the trail because the meadows are delicate and because acculturating wildlife (including deer) to human contact makes them aggressive further down the line, aggressive to the extent that they have to then close the trails. Despite that, a couple of families, like eight people, were off the trail having a picnic in a snowbank and throwing snowballs at the fucking deer. I told 'em to get back on the trail in my polite adult voice and they got all fucking shirty about how they weren't hurting anything and I read aloud the sign that was right next to the trail telling them to stay on the trail because the meadow was delicate. Even then, they were like, "Yeah, yeah," so I resorted to, "Do you need help? Do you need someone to carry your basket for you?" They had kids with them, so I made sure that I wasn't swearing or being vulgar because I didn't want them trying to put their bullshit back on me.
So, they were a white family and had one little black girl with them, and she was the only one that came over. She was about eight years old and came sobbing about how she hadn't seen the sign and hadn't wanted to break the rules and how she was trying so hard to get the family to come with her, and then the head doofus of the crew started yelling at me about making her cry. We had to have that calming conversation where we had to make it clear that she wasn't going to get in trouble because it wasn't her job to keep her family off the snow pack, it was the adults' job to make sure that they were all following the rules, but that if people didn't follow these particular rules, the trail could be closed to everyone. In order to have a picnic, they were risking the access of every other person to that fantastic trail.
Honestly, I think part of the only reason that they listened is because with my green shirt and brown shorts, I looked like a ranger from a distance. But it still grinds my gears that they were so truculent over aggressively disregarding a rule that imperiled the access of millions of people per year to a gorgeous bit of public nature.
posted by klangklangston at 11:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [21 favorites]
And constantly be overshadowed by the Fish and Wildlife Officer who gets in exciting gun battles and shit (FWS officers are the LEOs most likely to be killed on duty, mostly by poachers).
"We explained that that trail was not a public trail, and in any case, he was wading around in an protected habitat that was not a trail; he insisted he wanted to get to *that* trail; we reiterated that that was not a public trail - and then we pointed to the park rangers who were not far away and said we could just go ask them if he could use that trail. He re-hopped the fence with much eye-rolling and left."
Christ, in July I was up in Olympic National Park heading up the Hurricane Ridge trail with my fiancee's family and there were ALL THE FUCKING SIGNS about how people weren't supposed to go off the trail because the meadows are delicate and because acculturating wildlife (including deer) to human contact makes them aggressive further down the line, aggressive to the extent that they have to then close the trails. Despite that, a couple of families, like eight people, were off the trail having a picnic in a snowbank and throwing snowballs at the fucking deer. I told 'em to get back on the trail in my polite adult voice and they got all fucking shirty about how they weren't hurting anything and I read aloud the sign that was right next to the trail telling them to stay on the trail because the meadow was delicate. Even then, they were like, "Yeah, yeah," so I resorted to, "Do you need help? Do you need someone to carry your basket for you?" They had kids with them, so I made sure that I wasn't swearing or being vulgar because I didn't want them trying to put their bullshit back on me.
So, they were a white family and had one little black girl with them, and she was the only one that came over. She was about eight years old and came sobbing about how she hadn't seen the sign and hadn't wanted to break the rules and how she was trying so hard to get the family to come with her, and then the head doofus of the crew started yelling at me about making her cry. We had to have that calming conversation where we had to make it clear that she wasn't going to get in trouble because it wasn't her job to keep her family off the snow pack, it was the adults' job to make sure that they were all following the rules, but that if people didn't follow these particular rules, the trail could be closed to everyone. In order to have a picnic, they were risking the access of every other person to that fantastic trail.
Honestly, I think part of the only reason that they listened is because with my green shirt and brown shorts, I looked like a ranger from a distance. But it still grinds my gears that they were so truculent over aggressively disregarding a rule that imperiled the access of millions of people per year to a gorgeous bit of public nature.
posted by klangklangston at 11:22 AM on October 23, 2014 [21 favorites]
I am, in fact, surprised she has any defenders at all.
posted by Captaintripps at 11:26 AM on October 23, 2014
posted by Captaintripps at 11:26 AM on October 23, 2014
FWS officers are the LEOs most likely to be killed on duty
Wow, that's a hell of a factoid. Makes sense, but I would never have guessed that in a million years.
posted by spaltavian at 11:55 AM on October 23, 2014
Wow, that's a hell of a factoid. Makes sense, but I would never have guessed that in a million years.
posted by spaltavian at 11:55 AM on October 23, 2014
How big are these paintings? I loathe that she did them at all, but my enthusiasm for seeing the book thrown at her is going to be at least partly dependent on whether these are like 18" tags or 6 foot wide "murals."
In the case of the former, a few months in jail, a bunch of fines, and paying damages would probably be fine. If she's making huge pieces of crap that ruin entire vistas... well, then I'd probably support the federal government pursuing all of its options with maximum vigor.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:31 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
In the case of the former, a few months in jail, a bunch of fines, and paying damages would probably be fine. If she's making huge pieces of crap that ruin entire vistas... well, then I'd probably support the federal government pursuing all of its options with maximum vigor.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:31 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
They're a couple feet at most.
But - she's crawling across several feet of thousand-year-old petroglyphs and extremely fragile ground cover to get to the spots where she makes them, and she's made dozens of them scattered across several sites.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:54 PM on October 23, 2014
But - she's crawling across several feet of thousand-year-old petroglyphs and extremely fragile ground cover to get to the spots where she makes them, and she's made dozens of them scattered across several sites.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:54 PM on October 23, 2014
I am, in fact, surprised she has any defenders at all.
You can always find someone to be in favor of literally anything.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:09 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
You can always find someone to be in favor of literally anything.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:09 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Steely-eyed Missile Man: "You can always find someone to be in favor of literally anything."
Your basic baseline crazy is 27%, which is the percent of voters who voted for Alan Keys in the 2004 Illinois Senate election despite the fact that he had literally no redeeming qualities, 86 days to campaign, and was helidropped in from out of state. So in a large enough group, 27% is your baseline level of crazy, the percentage of people who will agree with totally stupid things.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
Your basic baseline crazy is 27%, which is the percent of voters who voted for Alan Keys in the 2004 Illinois Senate election despite the fact that he had literally no redeeming qualities, 86 days to campaign, and was helidropped in from out of state. So in a large enough group, 27% is your baseline level of crazy, the percentage of people who will agree with totally stupid things.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]
she's crawling across several feet of thousand-year-old petroglyphs
Did the petroglyphs go through any sort of approval process?
posted by empath at 1:29 PM on October 23, 2014
Did the petroglyphs go through any sort of approval process?
posted by empath at 1:29 PM on October 23, 2014
Did the petroglyphs go through any sort of approval process?
They were grandfathered in.
posted by Floydd at 1:31 PM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
They were grandfathered in.
posted by Floydd at 1:31 PM on October 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Did the petroglyphs go through any sort of approval process?
No, and neither do her facebook posts, which serve a closer purpose to what old petroglyphs did - keep a record of events, people, conditions etc. I think its a bit of a misconception about rockart to imply that they were simply art.
posted by H. Roark at 1:40 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
No, and neither do her facebook posts, which serve a closer purpose to what old petroglyphs did - keep a record of events, people, conditions etc. I think its a bit of a misconception about rockart to imply that they were simply art.
posted by H. Roark at 1:40 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Your basic baseline crazy is 27%, which is the percent of voters who voted for Alan Keys in the 2004 Illinois Senate
Strikingly similar to the 25% who still approved of George Bush at the end of the 2008 campaign.
posted by spaltavian at 1:42 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Strikingly similar to the 25% who still approved of George Bush at the end of the 2008 campaign.
posted by spaltavian at 1:42 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Your basic baseline crazy is 27%
See also.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:03 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
See also.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:03 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
> We are long overdue for a modern day Park Ranger tv drama. Give it a Handsome Family theme song and feature Special Agent Steve Yu dispensing sweet sweet taser justice to those who would defile our parks
I see your Special Agent Steve Yu and raise you a Kate Shugak.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2014
I see your Special Agent Steve Yu and raise you a Kate Shugak.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2014
I know very well from activism on this issue that prison does not make things better.
Fine, fine. No prison then.
So, do we know of any mountain lions that need feeding? I understand mountain lions are always hungry.
posted by happyroach at 4:16 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Fine, fine. No prison then.
So, do we know of any mountain lions that need feeding? I understand mountain lions are always hungry.
posted by happyroach at 4:16 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Actually, someone in the #caseynocket hashtag on Twitter had a really good idea - levvy a fine, but then make her actually take part in the cleanup process in each place, and - make her Instagram photos of THAT.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
...if this had been done several thousand years ago...
About 25 years ago I had a friend who was a park ranger at the Grand Canyon who showed me round the Kolb Studio. The inside had a bunch of graffiti from its time (1904-76) in private hands. All this graffiti was considered “historic" so there were a bunch of mindless 1970s carved names and dates that fell into this category and were protected, while if I had added my name or removed theirs a scant 15 years after it would have been vandalism. It was arbitrary and slightly goofy, but you do have to draw the line somewhere, and there will always be silly edge cases even when the basic principle makes complete sense.
Whether or not painting on rocks in a National Park would have been vandalism in some earlier time, it sure is now.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 4:56 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
About 25 years ago I had a friend who was a park ranger at the Grand Canyon who showed me round the Kolb Studio. The inside had a bunch of graffiti from its time (1904-76) in private hands. All this graffiti was considered “historic" so there were a bunch of mindless 1970s carved names and dates that fell into this category and were protected, while if I had added my name or removed theirs a scant 15 years after it would have been vandalism. It was arbitrary and slightly goofy, but you do have to draw the line somewhere, and there will always be silly edge cases even when the basic principle makes complete sense.
Whether or not painting on rocks in a National Park would have been vandalism in some earlier time, it sure is now.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 4:56 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
People are typing rage into machines--that are themselves the product of nature being destroyed--because one woman decorated some rocks?
posted by yonega at 7:11 PM on October 23, 2014
posted by yonega at 7:11 PM on October 23, 2014
Hi, Casey.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
The National Parks have had their budgets cut, but they still offer access to nature and preservation of amazing natural resources to huge numbers of people. To deface them is callous and selfish and gross. She's an utter jerk. Looking forward to seeing this story unfold.
posted by theora55 at 8:35 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 8:35 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
because one woman decorated some rocks
I'll be right over to "decorate" your place. It'll look wicked cool, I swear.
posted by Camofrog at 8:38 PM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'll be right over to "decorate" your place. It'll look wicked cool, I swear.
posted by Camofrog at 8:38 PM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
People are typing rage into machines--that are themselves the product of nature being destroyed--because one woman decorated some rocks?
I'm sorry, did you forget to think that through?
posted by five fresh fish at 2:18 AM on October 24, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry, did you forget to think that through?
posted by five fresh fish at 2:18 AM on October 24, 2014 [4 favorites]
People are typing rage into machines--that are themselves the product of nature being destroyed--because one woman decorated some rocks?
That was a joke comment, right?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:33 AM on October 24, 2014
That was a joke comment, right?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:33 AM on October 24, 2014
Oh for fuck's sake - some Gamerghazis are trying to piggyback on this by claiming this is a "SJW/Feminist" thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:48 AM on October 24, 2014
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:48 AM on October 24, 2014
To be fair, I've seen several actual news outlets get taken in by repurposed tumblr account, too.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:38 AM on October 24, 2014
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:38 AM on October 24, 2014
Now there's a WhiteHouse.gov petition to "Press charges - Casey Nocket - fines,max community service,jail time,etc. for - http://goo.gl/hY4yQj (defacing NP & NM)". 4,477 signatures so far.
posted by achrise at 8:59 AM on October 24, 2014
posted by achrise at 8:59 AM on October 24, 2014
This site claims to have spoken to a member of Casey Nocket's family :
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2014
Today we spoke with a relative of Nocket, who has requested that she not be named. It became clear at the beginning of the first conversation that this person was legitimately concerned for a family member’s safety. While we were still introducing ourselves, that person’s voice made clear a distinct fear. We spoke for awhile about Casey’s actions, here in plain language is what we found out:Also, apparently, there is no warrant for her arrest - she is due to meet with officials on Tuesday, if this site is to be believed.
She didn’t go into hiding or run, she contacted the Park Service investigators and is fully cooperating;
She knows she did a horrible thing and is incredibly remorseful;
She is aware of the seriousness of her crimes and is ready to face the music; and
There are now people pretending to be her online, Tumblr in particular. All of her social media accounts have been deleted.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2014
happyroach: re the hungry mountain lion idea --- good thought, but I wouldn't want to give the poor beasties a bellyache....
posted by easily confused at 9:23 PM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by easily confused at 9:23 PM on October 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Bitch tagged my Monument!
The vandalism is about 4 miles from my house.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:52 PM on November 5, 2014
The vandalism is about 4 miles from my house.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:52 PM on November 5, 2014
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posted by Going To Maine at 6:06 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]