UKIP:Robert Iwaszkiewicz::The Tories:Right wing scandanavians
October 31, 2014 5:46 AM Subscribe
UKIP have done a deal with a right-wing Polish Party to ensure their Euro group continues to recieve funding. Huffpo: "The Polish MEP recruited by Nigel Farage to save Ukip's group in the European Parliament has joked about wife beating and defended Adolf Hitler's tax policy." Guardian: "Britain’s leading Jewish organisation has accused Nigel Farage of putting Ukip’s credibility on the line by striking a deal with a far-right Polish party whose leader has a history of Holocaust denial and racist and misogynistic comments." Meanwhile, the Tories own European Conservatives and Reformist (ECR) group have done deals with Right-Wing Danish and Finnish groups, for the same reason. Euroactive: The eurosceptic Danish People's Party, and The Finns party, have left Nigel Farage's Parliament group, Europe of Freedom and Democracy, which they previously belonged to. Guardian: Moderates warn that inviting Danish People's party to join Conservative group would damage Britain and the Tories
I left Denmark partly because of Danish People's Party dominating public discourse. They are horrible and toxic. Their ex-MEP, Mogens Camre, has been fined for racist comments several times and at local levels, DPP routinely has to expel members because of fascist fringe sympathies. And they are the third largest party in Denmark.
Them leaving Farage's Parliamentary group speaks volumes about UKIP. I am not sure that ignoring UKIP would do much good as it'd play into the "the media is against us because we speak the truth" narrative. Giving equal attention to other parties such as The Greens would be a great start.
posted by kariebookish at 6:13 AM on October 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Them leaving Farage's Parliamentary group speaks volumes about UKIP. I am not sure that ignoring UKIP would do much good as it'd play into the "the media is against us because we speak the truth" narrative. Giving equal attention to other parties such as The Greens would be a great start.
posted by kariebookish at 6:13 AM on October 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
They have credibility because they won more votes than any other party at the last european elections. I don't like that but you can't ignore it.
I tend to discount commentary on EP groups, because they are always dubious - even the S&D has a half dozen totally disreputable types. Still, this seems like an uncharacteristic misstep for Farage, one that he could have avoided. He has enough support, and has put in enough effort to transform central messaging now that continuing to be dogged down by these kind of things shows very bad judgement.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 6:27 AM on October 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
I tend to discount commentary on EP groups, because they are always dubious - even the S&D has a half dozen totally disreputable types. Still, this seems like an uncharacteristic misstep for Farage, one that he could have avoided. He has enough support, and has put in enough effort to transform central messaging now that continuing to be dogged down by these kind of things shows very bad judgement.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 6:27 AM on October 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
I just wrote a massive comment on this which died. Heartbroken, I shall offer a pithy version of it: UKIP can basically do anything and get a way with it, because they have managed to seize the narrative of "rebels" even if it makes no sense. In this they are helped by a media operation which often accepts their line of argument.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 6:31 AM on October 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Cannon Fodder at 6:31 AM on October 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
I have to agree with that. There have been almost constant scandals, as well as totally insane stuff like Farage not knowing half the stuff that was in the last UKIP manifesto - it just bounces off them because they exist only as a mechanism for various sorts of angry people, rather than as a "real" political party. Adding to that is that for most people UKIP is Nigel Farage, and oh look there he is again smiling and drinking a pint and not acting anything like one of those nasty pols would...
The other thing is that when they behave badly in the European Parliament (as they tend to do frequently) it actually plays into their narrative of "Europe is broken and corrupt" - that's exactly how they've got away with Farage's dodgy expenses claims etc.
posted by sobarel at 6:47 AM on October 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
The other thing is that when they behave badly in the European Parliament (as they tend to do frequently) it actually plays into their narrative of "Europe is broken and corrupt" - that's exactly how they've got away with Farage's dodgy expenses claims etc.
posted by sobarel at 6:47 AM on October 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
Apostrophe error means UKIP hoodie has opposite message than the one intended
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:49 AM on October 31, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:49 AM on October 31, 2014 [10 favorites]
kariebookish: Did you by any chance watch the Borgen TV series? It occurs to me that the leader of the (thinly disguised) People's Party in that was a very Farage-esque figure. All folksy charm and straight-talking, with all the ugly stuff bubbling beneath of course.
posted by sobarel at 6:50 AM on October 31, 2014
posted by sobarel at 6:50 AM on October 31, 2014
Apostrophe error means UKIP hoodie has opposite message than the one intended
That is a thing of beauty.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:57 AM on October 31, 2014
That is a thing of beauty.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:57 AM on October 31, 2014
sobarel - I tried but I gave up because a) it was too close to comfort with the DPP and b) Sidse Babett Knudsen looks like my mum.
posted by kariebookish at 7:09 AM on October 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by kariebookish at 7:09 AM on October 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
UKIP can basically do anything and get a way with it, because they have managed to seize the narrative of "rebels" even if it makes no sense.
Pretty much the same can be said about KNP, Kongres Nowej Prawicy / Congress of the New Right renamed "JKM" in the Guardian article - probably after the initials of Janusz Korwin Mikke, its leader. This guy wrote a really entertaining book on bridge (the card game) which is perhaps the nicest thing I can say about him.
They are not afraid to say crazy things to stir shit up, and probably believe most of them. This implies that they also believe in a lot of other things so crazy that even they are afraid to say them aloud. They got just 1% of votes in 2011 parliamentary elections, but 7.5% in the 2014 European Parliament elections (which had just 23.83% voter turnout).
posted by hat_eater at 7:11 AM on October 31, 2014
Pretty much the same can be said about KNP, Kongres Nowej Prawicy / Congress of the New Right renamed "JKM" in the Guardian article - probably after the initials of Janusz Korwin Mikke, its leader. This guy wrote a really entertaining book on bridge (the card game) which is perhaps the nicest thing I can say about him.
They are not afraid to say crazy things to stir shit up, and probably believe most of them. This implies that they also believe in a lot of other things so crazy that even they are afraid to say them aloud. They got just 1% of votes in 2011 parliamentary elections, but 7.5% in the 2014 European Parliament elections (which had just 23.83% voter turnout).
posted by hat_eater at 7:11 AM on October 31, 2014
He has enough support, and has put in enough effort to transform central messaging now that continuing to be dogged down by these kind of things shows very bad judgement.
It could show that. It could also show that he's a fucking racist, fascist piece of shit.
posted by howfar at 7:16 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
It could show that. It could also show that he's a fucking racist, fascist piece of shit.
posted by howfar at 7:16 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
They have credibility because they won more votes than any other party at the last european elections. I don't like that but you can't ignore it.Isn't it more like, they succeed in the European elections because a lot of Brits don't take the European parliament seriously, so vote for UKIP as a kind of protest vote in that arena?
As other posters point out above, the British media big-upping of UKIP is shameless and deeply irresponsible. They want a car crash to report on, so encourage one to happen. Unfortunately, now were all going to be in the car when it crashes and that may hurt somewhat. The fact that the BBC is at the same time refusing to allow the Greens to participate in election debates (despite having the same number of MPs in the UK parliament as UKIP) underlines the hypocrisy involved here.
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:37 AM on October 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
They have credibility because they won more votes than any other party at the last european elections. I don't like that but you can't ignore it.
I agree UKIP have got too big to ignore following the euro elections this year. they really needed ignoring for the four years before, because there credibility arose entirely from media coverage of whatever controversial sound bite they pushed out. Their numbers at the 2010 election should not have been enough to give them significant media attention, but it has, and now we are in a different place, apparently one where one third of UK voters would consider voting for them. Will this translate into power in 2015?
posted by biffa at 7:40 AM on October 31, 2014
I agree UKIP have got too big to ignore following the euro elections this year. they really needed ignoring for the four years before, because there credibility arose entirely from media coverage of whatever controversial sound bite they pushed out. Their numbers at the 2010 election should not have been enough to give them significant media attention, but it has, and now we are in a different place, apparently one where one third of UK voters would consider voting for them. Will this translate into power in 2015?
posted by biffa at 7:40 AM on October 31, 2014
The fact that the BBC is at the same time refusing to allow the Greens to participate in election debates (despite having the same number of MPs in the UK parliament as UKIP) underlines the hypocrisy involved here.
The Greens are also polling 1-2% above the LibDems for voting intention in 2015. The excuses given are frankly unacceptable and given the awful coverage of the Scottish independence vote my confidence in Auntie Beeb is at its lowest ebb of all time.
posted by longbaugh at 7:48 AM on October 31, 2014 [8 favorites]
The Greens are also polling 1-2% above the LibDems for voting intention in 2015. The excuses given are frankly unacceptable and given the awful coverage of the Scottish independence vote my confidence in Auntie Beeb is at its lowest ebb of all time.
posted by longbaugh at 7:48 AM on October 31, 2014 [8 favorites]
To be honest re: television debates what needs to be done is an actual act of Parliament or something similar creating a body to determine who should participate in the debates. The ad hoc nature of it isn't terribly good for democracy. It's worth noting that if you say "having one MP" is a good reason to be in the debates you could include Respect, or the SNP. My understanding of the reason the Beeb give more coverage to UKIP than the Greens is that the former are a pleasure to work with (turn up to interviews on time, are often available, are very polite) while the latter are not.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 7:53 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Cannon Fodder at 7:53 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Isn't it more like, they succeed in the European elections because a lot of Brits don't take the European parliament seriously, so vote for UKIP as a kind of protest vote in that arena?
Yes. It's worth noting that although UKIP did well in the European election this year - a 10% swing - in the local elections (held on the same day) their share of the vote actually fell by 5%. People don't care about or understand the European Parliament by and large, and will vote differently when it's something that actually matters to them.
posted by sobarel at 7:55 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes. It's worth noting that although UKIP did well in the European election this year - a 10% swing - in the local elections (held on the same day) their share of the vote actually fell by 5%. People don't care about or understand the European Parliament by and large, and will vote differently when it's something that actually matters to them.
posted by sobarel at 7:55 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Actually It seems quite likely that the Greens will get to take part in any TV debate with Farage - both Clegg and Cameron suggested that it might happen that way & I bet UKIP would fold to that too if it gave them a chance of being on an equal footing a 5/2/3 if you will - with PC&the SNP taking the spots in regional debates.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 8:05 AM on October 31, 2014
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 8:05 AM on October 31, 2014
My understanding of the reason the Beeb give more coverage to UKIP than the Greens is that the former are a pleasure to work with (turn up to interviews on time, are often available, are very polite) while the latter are not.
The Greens are incompetently organised, yes, and also unlikely to make any gains in the next election. But I think a lot of it is just down to UKIP making more entertaining viewing - if you're concerned about ratings do you get dull sensible ol' Natalie Bennett on your show, or one of UKIP's various barking mad spokespeople?
posted by sobarel at 8:09 AM on October 31, 2014
The Greens are incompetently organised, yes, and also unlikely to make any gains in the next election. But I think a lot of it is just down to UKIP making more entertaining viewing - if you're concerned about ratings do you get dull sensible ol' Natalie Bennett on your show, or one of UKIP's various barking mad spokespeople?
posted by sobarel at 8:09 AM on October 31, 2014
kariebookish: "I left Denmark partly because of Danish People's Party dominating public discourse."You and me both, then. It's only become worse in the last 5 years even though we've got a notionally left-wing government (for) now.
posted by brokkr at 8:25 AM on October 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
That hoodie typo richly paraphrases the UKIP mentality. Three sentiments bound up in a lazy error: We're number one! We're no one! We were #1!
posted by forgetful snow at 9:07 AM on October 31, 2014
posted by forgetful snow at 9:07 AM on October 31, 2014
There have been almost constant scandals, as well as totally insane stuff like Farage not knowing half the stuff that was in the last UKIP manifesto - it just bounces off them because they exist only as a mechanism for various sorts of angry people, rather than as a "real" political party.
The only UKIP supporter that I know lives with his German girlfriend in London. When I asked them about it he challenged me to a game of chess.
posted by srboisvert at 10:41 AM on October 31, 2014
The only UKIP supporter that I know lives with his German girlfriend in London. When I asked them about it he challenged me to a game of chess.
posted by srboisvert at 10:41 AM on October 31, 2014
The only UKIP supporter that I know lives with his German girlfriend in London.
You know who else had a German girlfriend?
posted by howfar at 1:11 PM on October 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
You know who else had a German girlfriend?
posted by howfar at 1:11 PM on October 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Nigel Farage.
posted by biffa at 1:27 PM on October 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by biffa at 1:27 PM on October 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
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Now can we please all stop giving UKIP the time of day? Their recent ascent (aided in no small part by their constant media coverage) is not a positive thing, and the BBC and major papers continuing to pay them more attention just lends them credibility they needn't have.
posted by Dysk at 6:08 AM on October 31, 2014 [3 favorites]