December 25: Holiday
November 13, 2014 9:32 AM Subscribe
Montgomery County, Maryland's Board of Education is coming under backlash after it voted 7 to 1 on Tuesday night to eliminate references to all religious holidays on the published calendar for 2015-2016. The decision followed a request from Muslim community leaders to give equal billing to the Muslim holy day of Eid al-Adha.
Bethesda Magazine: "Saqib Ali, a representative of the Equality for Eid coalition, said he was frustrated by the recommendation. “It seems the school administration is working very hard to find excuses, rationalization and false reasoning to deny the Muslim community equality.”"
Bethesda Magazine: "Saqib Ali, a representative of the Equality for Eid coalition, said he was frustrated by the recommendation. “It seems the school administration is working very hard to find excuses, rationalization and false reasoning to deny the Muslim community equality.”"
Yeah, sort of a bizarre cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of situation, but separation of church and state, so yay maybe? I honestly don't know.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:37 AM on November 13, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:37 AM on November 13, 2014 [11 favorites]
As a godless left coaster I am amused that anyone would expect to see a religious holiday referenced on a public school calendar at all. Merry Winter Break, everybody!
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [39 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [39 favorites]
Our favorite holiday tradition begins.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 9:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
Not unlike the "fine, we'll just stop recognizing all marriages" response to same-sex marriage. And equally impossible to hear in anything except a whining eight-year-old's voice.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [45 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [45 favorites]
So it turns out that the war on Christmas is real; it's just that it's being waged by Christians.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 9:42 AM on November 13, 2014 [92 favorites]
posted by Snarl Furillo at 9:42 AM on November 13, 2014 [92 favorites]
What the shit Maryland?
posted by boo_radley at 9:43 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by boo_radley at 9:43 AM on November 13, 2014
Well, Maude forbid we actually learn something!!! Like the fact that there is a holiday named Eid or how it's pronounced (eed) or how we wish someone a good holiday (Eid Mubarak) or that we become learned citizens with the ability to know other cultures than our own!!!
Holy fuck people! Get it together!
posted by Sophie1 at 9:44 AM on November 13, 2014 [21 favorites]
Holy fuck people! Get it together!
posted by Sophie1 at 9:44 AM on November 13, 2014 [21 favorites]
wife says: "somewhere Kirk Cameron is penning a sternly worded but badly paced script about this."
posted by boo_radley at 9:49 AM on November 13, 2014 [64 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 9:49 AM on November 13, 2014 [64 favorites]
Seeing as we're entering the traditional "War on Christmas" season on Fox News, I fully expect this to get plenty of air time, with a "muslims attack christians" spin.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on November 13, 2014
To me, this whole ordeal seems as though Montgomery County went, "Well, we sure as hell can't give you the equal billing to your non-Christian holidays, so we just give up. Look, now you ruined it all, thanks MUSLIMS."Noooooo. No, it's not non-Christian holidays. Montgomery County has closed school for Jewish holidays for a long time. It's Muslim holidays specifically. And also, fuck you, Montgomery County.
(My parents lived in Montgomery County for a while, fwiw.)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:50 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
On a semi-related note, the husband just took a temp job this week at a tiny company of about 30 people. Tiny enough and backwards enough that one of the sales dudes is just fine with sending out anti-Muslim racist jokes to the entire internal company email list. Never mind that some of their biggest customers are in Muslim countries, guess it's ok to take their money.
I think a lot of the redneck types just have no category for "Muslim" beyond Arab stereotypes (including terrorists). They know absolutely nothing about Islam or the varied cultures it can exist within. It is utterly alien to them, as alien as someone being a Martian. Asking to include it as a part of the holidays? That's crazy talk.
posted by emjaybee at 9:50 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think a lot of the redneck types just have no category for "Muslim" beyond Arab stereotypes (including terrorists). They know absolutely nothing about Islam or the varied cultures it can exist within. It is utterly alien to them, as alien as someone being a Martian. Asking to include it as a part of the holidays? That's crazy talk.
posted by emjaybee at 9:50 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
The story's pretty clear that they're still actually celebrating the exact same Jewish and Christian holidays, they're just not referring to them on the calendar by name, so... this does not seem apt to go well.
posted by Sequence at 9:50 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 9:50 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Montgomery County has closed school for Jewish holidays for a long time.
Not all, and not even all the major ones. They are closed the first full day of Rosh Hashana, but not the second.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:51 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Not all, and not even all the major ones. They are closed the first full day of Rosh Hashana, but not the second.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:51 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
The idea, she said, was to reflect that schools were not being closed for religious observances but because of high absenteeism among students and staff members on those days.
Wow! So the only thing it takes to get out of school / work is to convince everyone else not to go? RADICAL! I never knew MoGoCo so openly advocated anarchy!
posted by joecacti at 9:51 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Wow! So the only thing it takes to get out of school / work is to convince everyone else not to go? RADICAL! I never knew MoGoCo so openly advocated anarchy!
posted by joecacti at 9:51 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
And to think I can get all worked up that my college bases spring break on when Easter falls.
This seemed great until Sequence's post...
posted by cccorlew at 9:53 AM on November 13, 2014
This seemed great until Sequence's post...
posted by cccorlew at 9:53 AM on November 13, 2014
Not all, and not even all the major ones. They are closed the first full day of Rosh Hashana, but not the second.Sure. But my point is that Montgomery County isn't some Christian community that refuses to recognize anyone else. It's a diverse community with a lot of Jewish and Muslim residents, and it's specifically refusing to acknowledge Muslims in the way that it does acknowledge Christians and Jews.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:54 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
ArbitraryAndCapricious: "Noooooo. No, it's not non-Christian holidays. Montgomery County has closed school for Jewish holidays for a long time. It's Muslim holidays specifically. And also, fuck you, Montgomery County.
(My parents lived in Montgomery County for a while, fwiw.)"
I missed that it was County at first and thought "Wait, there's Jews in Alabama? And they actually gave them holidays off???"
(Yes, I am a horrible person, why do you ask?)
posted by symbioid at 9:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
(My parents lived in Montgomery County for a while, fwiw.)"
I missed that it was County at first and thought "Wait, there's Jews in Alabama? And they actually gave them holidays off???"
(Yes, I am a horrible person, why do you ask?)
posted by symbioid at 9:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
And symbioid, I'm even horribler.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:02 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by ReeMonster at 10:02 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Eid means Iranian co-workers bring in Iranian sweets. The fools must not know what they're missing out on, or they would never have done this.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:02 AM on November 13, 2014 [29 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 10:02 AM on November 13, 2014 [29 favorites]
The thing is, I think this was the right decision for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't have religious holidays marked as such on a public school calendar in the US! That's not okay! I also think that this happened because of anti-Muslim bigotry which is also not okay.
In conclusion, many things are awful and this debacle is bigoted and depressing.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:04 AM on November 13, 2014 [21 favorites]
In conclusion, many things are awful and this debacle is bigoted and depressing.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:04 AM on November 13, 2014 [21 favorites]
This so dumb. When my son lived in Singapore, the whole country got off for everybody's holidays, Muslim, Christian , Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, etc etc. The more holidays and respect for diversity, the better!
posted by mermayd at 10:04 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 10:04 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
And joking aside, at one of the schools where I teach drums, I help out during their holiday concerts and it's AWESOME because they sing songs from like, every fucking culture on the planet. Songs I never heard before, from India, Africa, Middle East, all over the place. It's SO much more fun than the typical "10 Full-Blown Jesus Songs and a 2 minute Jew-medley" that pass for holiday fare in elementary school. Be more inclusive!
posted by ReeMonster at 10:06 AM on November 13, 2014 [35 favorites]
posted by ReeMonster at 10:06 AM on November 13, 2014 [35 favorites]
cccorlew: And to think I can get all worked up that my college bases spring break on when Easter falls.
This seemed great until Sequence's post...
I thought a lot of colleges planned their spring break over St Patricks Day. A few rude hooligans in years passed ruined that solemn and dignified celebration of Celtic culture, causing the calendar shift.
posted by dr_dank at 10:10 AM on November 13, 2014
This seemed great until Sequence's post...
I thought a lot of colleges planned their spring break over St Patricks Day. A few rude hooligans in years passed ruined that solemn and dignified celebration of Celtic culture, causing the calendar shift.
posted by dr_dank at 10:10 AM on November 13, 2014
It takes a special kind of crazy to make a decision that will offend virtually everybody. Christians, Jews, Muslims... heck, I'm atheist and I know this is wrong. Removing any reference to religions but still observing a select few? Wow, that's impressive.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:11 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:11 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
Whoa, those first two FPP sentences give me whiplash. So basically, they're doing a good thing for a revolting offensive obnoxious bigoted juvenile reason. Welcome to the annual "Grar I hate the fucking holiday season so much please let it be over soon or just kill me now" party, everybody!
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:12 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:12 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
The thing is, I think this was the right decision for the wrong reasons. You shouldn't have religious holidays marked as such on a public school calendar in the US! That's not okay!
I'm inclined to agree insofar as actual scheduling goes. Separation of church and state and all that.
But the scheduling hasn't changed, just the information on the calendar. On non-statutory religious holidays, there's going to be a lot of kids not showing up to school, and a lot of faculty not knowing why. There might even be people showing up on days off not realizing school's closed for some holiday they're unfamiliar with. Marking those holidays on the calendar would be useful for that kind of thing.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:19 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm inclined to agree insofar as actual scheduling goes. Separation of church and state and all that.
But the scheduling hasn't changed, just the information on the calendar. On non-statutory religious holidays, there's going to be a lot of kids not showing up to school, and a lot of faculty not knowing why. There might even be people showing up on days off not realizing school's closed for some holiday they're unfamiliar with. Marking those holidays on the calendar would be useful for that kind of thing.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:19 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
As someone who's not religious my knee jerk response was to think "good!" But really I think I'd prefer if the major religious holidays for groups that make up a significant portion of the population were marked on the calendar. Just for convenience's sake, like avoiding a "wow, is everybody sick today or what?" or to know if there's anything I should be doing or not doing like talking at length about how awesome my sandwich is during Ramadan or something, or scheduling something important when some key person can't be there.
When I was in grade school, the neighbourood had a large Jewish population, maybe between a quarter to a third of my classmates. The teachers always had time for people (usually a parent) to come in and talk about the various holidays, give us traditional food for the holiday, and sing us songs and tell us a bit about what the holiday is about. It was great! I wish I had learned about other religions, too! Though the number of us kids that expressed something to the effect of "I wish I was Jewish" when our friends were off for holidays would probably be a worst-case-scenario for the type of people that pulled this calendar stunt.
posted by Hoopo at 10:20 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
When I was in grade school, the neighbourood had a large Jewish population, maybe between a quarter to a third of my classmates. The teachers always had time for people (usually a parent) to come in and talk about the various holidays, give us traditional food for the holiday, and sing us songs and tell us a bit about what the holiday is about. It was great! I wish I had learned about other religions, too! Though the number of us kids that expressed something to the effect of "I wish I was Jewish" when our friends were off for holidays would probably be a worst-case-scenario for the type of people that pulled this calendar stunt.
posted by Hoopo at 10:20 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Ugh, I just moved back to Montgomery County after a two year absence and I'm incredibly frustrated. I'd say that MoCo has a fairly liberal reputation and is a diverse area. But this is just pure dick move on their parts, and is obviously a move to redirect anger towards the Muslim community. Fuck them.
posted by X-Himy at 10:21 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by X-Himy at 10:21 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Eid means Iranian co-workers bring in Iranian sweets. The fools must not know what they're missing out on, or they would never have done this.
You're probably thinking of the wrong Eid. This is about the Muslim holiday, not the (more awesome) Eid-eh Norwuz.
posted by azarbayejani at 10:22 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
You're probably thinking of the wrong Eid. This is about the Muslim holiday, not the (more awesome) Eid-eh Norwuz.
posted by azarbayejani at 10:22 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I wanna send one of my old roommates to sort them out, because he had a genius attitude towards this. When he and I first moved in and we were having our initial "ground rules for the apartment" talk, I told him that I sometimes went big about Christmas, "but since you're Jewish I can keep that to my room if you'd rather".
He thought for about two seconds and then said "no, actually, let's totally go the other way - you get the biggest tree you can, even bigger than you've done before, and I'll go get the biggest menorah I can find, and we'll put them both up right next to each other so we can confuse everyone."
This was all the way in September. But by the time that December rolled around, and we'd each put up our respective holidays, we both got so totally into the idea of Going Big For The Holidays that we were also looking into celebrating every other December holiday we could find, just because - Eid, Diwali, we even heard about some kind of ancient Chinese thing. We even invented a separate holiday for the cat ("Ribbon", I think my roommate named it).
And it was a TOTAL blast, because we both ended up including each other in the observations (he made a point of waiting until I was home to light the menorah each night of Hannukkah, so I could join in - although his play-by-play translation of the Hebrew was probably not correct, unless 'thanks for being so spiffy, God' is in the Torah), and we both felt free to ask each other "y'know, I've always wondered about this...." questions about each others' holidays.
This kind of thing is a cool thing to have happen in the world and would that more people felt that way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2014 [136 favorites]
He thought for about two seconds and then said "no, actually, let's totally go the other way - you get the biggest tree you can, even bigger than you've done before, and I'll go get the biggest menorah I can find, and we'll put them both up right next to each other so we can confuse everyone."
This was all the way in September. But by the time that December rolled around, and we'd each put up our respective holidays, we both got so totally into the idea of Going Big For The Holidays that we were also looking into celebrating every other December holiday we could find, just because - Eid, Diwali, we even heard about some kind of ancient Chinese thing. We even invented a separate holiday for the cat ("Ribbon", I think my roommate named it).
And it was a TOTAL blast, because we both ended up including each other in the observations (he made a point of waiting until I was home to light the menorah each night of Hannukkah, so I could join in - although his play-by-play translation of the Hebrew was probably not correct, unless 'thanks for being so spiffy, God' is in the Torah), and we both felt free to ask each other "y'know, I've always wondered about this...." questions about each others' holidays.
This kind of thing is a cool thing to have happen in the world and would that more people felt that way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2014 [136 favorites]
From Wikipedia (emphasis mine):
Less than half of the residents consider themselves to be adherents of any religion, and the remaining 40% is one of the most diverse samples that you'll find anywhere in the country.
So, yeah. Removing religious holidays is the right decision for Montgomery County, not only because it respects the separation of church and state, but also because it accurately reflects the county's demographics.
posted by schmod at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2014 [16 favorites]
Of Montgomery County's population, 13% is Catholic, 5% is Baptist, 4% is Evangelical Protestant, 3% is Jewish, 3% is Methodist/Pietist, 2% is Adventist, 2% is Presbyterian, 1% is Episcopalian/Anglican, 1% is Mormon, 1% is Muslim, 1% is Lutheran, 1% is Eastern Orthodox, 1% is Pentecostal, 1% is Buddhist, and 1% is Hindu.[86][N 2]MoCo is insanely secular by American standards. While 60% of MoCo residents consider themselves to be unaffiliated, only 16% of Americans nationwide are unaffiliated with a religion.
2. These figures count adherents, meaning all full members, their children, and others who regularly attend services. In all of Montgomery County, 40% of the population is adherent to any particular religion
Less than half of the residents consider themselves to be adherents of any religion, and the remaining 40% is one of the most diverse samples that you'll find anywhere in the country.
So, yeah. Removing religious holidays is the right decision for Montgomery County, not only because it respects the separation of church and state, but also because it accurately reflects the county's demographics.
posted by schmod at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2014 [16 favorites]
I'm assuming the Christian Hegemonists feel that giving Muslim holidays equal billing is more of a threat than just unlabeling the whole calendar. Give them equal billing, they'll start to think that their holiday stands on equal footing. Then they start getting above themselves.
I mean, everyone is still gonna celebrate Christmas publicly, it's still gonna be the dominant theme. This way, the upstarts don't get any public recognition/elevation, while Jesus and Santa lose only a little, and nothing of real practical value, because what, are people gonna forget the date?
Christian hegemony in the public square maintained. Carry on.
Personally, Krampus Über Alles!
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I mean, everyone is still gonna celebrate Christmas publicly, it's still gonna be the dominant theme. This way, the upstarts don't get any public recognition/elevation, while Jesus and Santa lose only a little, and nothing of real practical value, because what, are people gonna forget the date?
Christian hegemony in the public square maintained. Carry on.
Personally, Krampus Über Alles!
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:23 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I am an athiest and a strong believer in the U.S.'s very smart decision to separate Church and State, but honestly Montgomery County this doesn't need to be ridiculous.
Removing all references to religious holidays on a calendar is ludicrous. They exist, and some people in your school are going to observe them. So go ahead and let people know on the calendar that they exist so they can plan accordingly.
Your public school should not take any days off for any holidays on religious grounds. Know that you're going to have some absences for certain religious holidays and deal with them. Not that hard.
Xmas falls conveniently in the "winter break" area that's a natural semester break anyway, so as luck would have it that day is off. Xmas is as much or more of a secular holiday for most Americans anyway, so even as a hardcore athiest I really have no problem with it. After that, Easter, Yom Kippur, Festivus, whatever: nope, not a day off.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:24 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Removing all references to religious holidays on a calendar is ludicrous. They exist, and some people in your school are going to observe them. So go ahead and let people know on the calendar that they exist so they can plan accordingly.
Your public school should not take any days off for any holidays on religious grounds. Know that you're going to have some absences for certain religious holidays and deal with them. Not that hard.
Xmas falls conveniently in the "winter break" area that's a natural semester break anyway, so as luck would have it that day is off. Xmas is as much or more of a secular holiday for most Americans anyway, so even as a hardcore athiest I really have no problem with it. After that, Easter, Yom Kippur, Festivus, whatever: nope, not a day off.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:24 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Xmas falls conveniently in the "winter break" area that's a natural semester break anyway, so as luck would have it that day is off.
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a break in winter is because of Christmas in the first place?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:27 AM on November 13, 2014 [19 favorites]
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a break in winter is because of Christmas in the first place?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:27 AM on November 13, 2014 [19 favorites]
I think this is a stupid move by the MoCo school board, but I also think that it is actually a weird outcome of the county's deep-seated secular liberal bent. It's a weird place, really: minority-majority, 31% immigrants, and nearly 40% of the county speaks a language other than English at home, and yet at the same time it is in the top 10 counties in the nation both for income and educational attainment. Only 40% of the county's residents consider themselves to be adherents of ANY religion. If there's a polar opposite to "redneck," it'd be wealthy, educated, racially diverse Montgomery County. So any "hur hur, Christian rednecks just don't like them Muslims" doesn't really make sense here as an explanation to what's going on.
posted by drlith at 10:29 AM on November 13, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by drlith at 10:29 AM on November 13, 2014 [13 favorites]
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a break in winter is because of Christmas in the first place?
Sure I have. Does it bug me? I guess a little, in that I have a pretty deep-seeded disdain for the "this is a christian country" bullcrap. Does that mean I think we should start rallying to have school on December 25th? No, it doesn't.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:30 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Sure I have. Does it bug me? I guess a little, in that I have a pretty deep-seeded disdain for the "this is a christian country" bullcrap. Does that mean I think we should start rallying to have school on December 25th? No, it doesn't.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:30 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Either major holidays from all religious and cultural traditions should be marked on the calendar or none should be. My preference would be the former, as it's a good if small opportunity for education.
posted by audi alteram partem at 10:30 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by audi alteram partem at 10:30 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
The War on Christmas season starts earlier and earlier every year.
posted by vverse23 at 10:33 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 10:33 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a break in winter is because of Christmas in the first place?
And ironically, Christmas is in the winter so that in coincidences with winter break.
posted by spaltavian at 10:39 AM on November 13, 2014 [21 favorites]
And ironically, Christmas is in the winter so that in coincidences with winter break.
posted by spaltavian at 10:39 AM on November 13, 2014 [21 favorites]
You shouldn't have religious holidays marked as such on a public school calendar in the US! That's not okay!
Sometimes it's necessary to explicitly tell Christians that they have to be tolerant of other people's religions.
It's not unusual for suburban Jewish American kids to have had christian teachers that penalized them for taking a holiday off.
posted by qi at 10:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sometimes it's necessary to explicitly tell Christians that they have to be tolerant of other people's religions.
It's not unusual for suburban Jewish American kids to have had christian teachers that penalized them for taking a holiday off.
posted by qi at 10:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
joecacti: "The idea, she said, was to reflect that schools were not being closed for religious observances but because of high absenteeism among students and staff members on those days.
"
This is actually pretty typical ... in Illinois it's something like, if you anticipate 20% of your student body or more will be absent from school for any reason, you may close school on that day. It's a guideline, not a rule, and local districts make the decision. Which means that in the town I grew up in, we had Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur off school, but not Good Friday; where I live now, they have Good Friday but no Jewish holidays; and in a couple small rural places they get the first day of deer season. For religious groups that don't meet the 20% threshhold, student absences must be excused for any religious observance, and they must be allowed to make up any work (although not extracurriculars, which is where the battles often happen because there will be a basketball game or a dance on a religious holiday).
(Side note, this is also part of their calculation in snow days -- will 80% of students be able to safely get to school? -- and closing for illness; if 20% of your students have strep throat, they'll probably just close school.)
This does get very complicated in large districts, like Chicago Public Schools, where you have 400,000 students and you truly can't accommodate EVERY religious holiday, and the whole district is supposed to be on the same calendar but you're going to have enclaves and ethnic neighborhoods where you end up with a student body in a particular elementary school that's, say, 80% Hindu while the district as a whole has only a 2% Hindu population, and it introduces problems if you close one school but not the others ... but also if you keep school open when 80% of students won't be there!
Anyway, for small and midsized districts this system generally works fine, and MoCo handled this in the worst possible way.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
"
This is actually pretty typical ... in Illinois it's something like, if you anticipate 20% of your student body or more will be absent from school for any reason, you may close school on that day. It's a guideline, not a rule, and local districts make the decision. Which means that in the town I grew up in, we had Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur off school, but not Good Friday; where I live now, they have Good Friday but no Jewish holidays; and in a couple small rural places they get the first day of deer season. For religious groups that don't meet the 20% threshhold, student absences must be excused for any religious observance, and they must be allowed to make up any work (although not extracurriculars, which is where the battles often happen because there will be a basketball game or a dance on a religious holiday).
(Side note, this is also part of their calculation in snow days -- will 80% of students be able to safely get to school? -- and closing for illness; if 20% of your students have strep throat, they'll probably just close school.)
This does get very complicated in large districts, like Chicago Public Schools, where you have 400,000 students and you truly can't accommodate EVERY religious holiday, and the whole district is supposed to be on the same calendar but you're going to have enclaves and ethnic neighborhoods where you end up with a student body in a particular elementary school that's, say, 80% Hindu while the district as a whole has only a 2% Hindu population, and it introduces problems if you close one school but not the others ... but also if you keep school open when 80% of students won't be there!
Anyway, for small and midsized districts this system generally works fine, and MoCo handled this in the worst possible way.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
Greg Nog: " it will close on other days that have shown a high level of student ... absenteeism."
SENIOR SKIP DAY!!!!!!!!!
posted by symbioid at 10:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
SENIOR SKIP DAY!!!!!!!!!
posted by symbioid at 10:40 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
As an atheist Jew and a VERY strong believer in the separation of church and state, I still find it ridiculous that this school would not put Eid on the calendar.
Children live in families. Families live in cultures. Cultures have traditions. One of the ways that we learn to live together is to learn each other's cultures and traditions. One of the best times to learn that other people have other cultures and traditions is as a child. One of the best places to learn about other cultures is in an ideally unbiased public institution.
I went to Jewish day school. My first Friday in public school I was shocked (SHOCKED) that Mrs. B didn't light Shabbat candles. I thought everyone lit Shabbat candles on Friday. It didn't occur to me that it was only something Jews did. How in Maude's name are kids going to know that not everyone has a Christmas tree when that's all they're exposed to???
posted by Sophie1 at 10:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [12 favorites]
Children live in families. Families live in cultures. Cultures have traditions. One of the ways that we learn to live together is to learn each other's cultures and traditions. One of the best times to learn that other people have other cultures and traditions is as a child. One of the best places to learn about other cultures is in an ideally unbiased public institution.
I went to Jewish day school. My first Friday in public school I was shocked (SHOCKED) that Mrs. B didn't light Shabbat candles. I thought everyone lit Shabbat candles on Friday. It didn't occur to me that it was only something Jews did. How in Maude's name are kids going to know that not everyone has a Christmas tree when that's all they're exposed to???
posted by Sophie1 at 10:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [12 favorites]
Your public school should not take any days off for any holidays on religious grounds. Know that you're going to have some absences for certain religious holidays and deal with them. Not that hard.
Precisely, but good luck getting that to happen. My public institution, for instance, has the usual Spring Break week in early March, and it's always just after the 8th week of the semester, same every year. But then there's another holiday, nebulously called Mid-Semester Recess. No classes from Thu--Sun, and, purely incidentally I'm sure, the Sunday always coincides with Easter, so the date of this critically important "recess" moves around every year. Sometimes we come back from Spring Break, have a week or two of classes, and then go out on Mid-Semester Recess, and sometimes it's shortly before Finals Week, both of which utterly and irrevocably fuck up everyone's classes in those years. But hey, we're a university, so learning is really beside the point, after all, especially in comparison with the all-important annual scapegoat party.
So because I am a jerk, I make a visible point of coming to campus and working on the Thursday and Friday of Mid-Semester Recess every year, and then I give myself an entire 24 hours off on Record Store Day in April, since that is the sacred spiritual festival of my people.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
Precisely, but good luck getting that to happen. My public institution, for instance, has the usual Spring Break week in early March, and it's always just after the 8th week of the semester, same every year. But then there's another holiday, nebulously called Mid-Semester Recess. No classes from Thu--Sun, and, purely incidentally I'm sure, the Sunday always coincides with Easter, so the date of this critically important "recess" moves around every year. Sometimes we come back from Spring Break, have a week or two of classes, and then go out on Mid-Semester Recess, and sometimes it's shortly before Finals Week, both of which utterly and irrevocably fuck up everyone's classes in those years. But hey, we're a university, so learning is really beside the point, after all, especially in comparison with the all-important annual scapegoat party.
So because I am a jerk, I make a visible point of coming to campus and working on the Thursday and Friday of Mid-Semester Recess every year, and then I give myself an entire 24 hours off on Record Store Day in April, since that is the sacred spiritual festival of my people.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:41 AM on November 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
Hold the phone, I want to know more about this Ribbon holiday for cats.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 10:43 AM on November 13, 2014 [55 favorites]
posted by overeducated_alligator at 10:43 AM on November 13, 2014 [55 favorites]
Just checked my local district's calendar [pdf]. The only holidays mentioned are the civic holidays when school is closed (e.g. MLK Day) along with "Winter Break" and "Spring Break."
posted by audi alteram partem at 10:43 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by audi alteram partem at 10:43 AM on November 13, 2014
mcstayinskool: "Your public school should not take any days off for any holidays on religious grounds. Know that you're going to have some absences for certain religious holidays and deal with them. Not that hard."
This would be a better idea if school funding weren't tied to attendance rates.
Although it's not a very good idea anyway because it just penalizes the teachers, making them show up to babysit a small number of kids while 50% of their class is off celebrating a religious holiday and having to make up the work the next day anyway. If effectively shortens the school year. Public schools should be secular spaces, but that doesn't require them to be DUMB about the fact that people HAVE religions.
(And before we go down the road of "then students can't make up work if they skip school for religious reasons," students have First Amendment free exercise rights too and you can't abridge those just because they annoy you.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:47 AM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
This would be a better idea if school funding weren't tied to attendance rates.
Although it's not a very good idea anyway because it just penalizes the teachers, making them show up to babysit a small number of kids while 50% of their class is off celebrating a religious holiday and having to make up the work the next day anyway. If effectively shortens the school year. Public schools should be secular spaces, but that doesn't require them to be DUMB about the fact that people HAVE religions.
(And before we go down the road of "then students can't make up work if they skip school for religious reasons," students have First Amendment free exercise rights too and you can't abridge those just because they annoy you.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:47 AM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
how it's pronounced (eed)
Huh. This entire time I've been reading it in my head as "eyed". MetaFilter just fulfilled my "Learn something new every day" quota for today. Huzzah!
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 10:52 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Huh. This entire time I've been reading it in my head as "eyed". MetaFilter just fulfilled my "Learn something new every day" quota for today. Huzzah!
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 10:52 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Eid means Iranian co-workers bring in Iranian sweets.
Sure, if they're coming into work. And they're not coming into work with delicious Iranian sweets if we give them days off for their holiday, are they?
posted by weston at 10:53 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Sure, if they're coming into work. And they're not coming into work with delicious Iranian sweets if we give them days off for their holiday, are they?
posted by weston at 10:53 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
I demand that we also celebrate a Festivus for the rest of us. We're well into the airing of grievances, so let's wring all we can out of this before we move on to the feats of strength.
posted by mosk at 10:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by mosk at 10:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
I went to Jewish day school. My first Friday in public school I was shocked (SHOCKED) that Mrs. B didn't light Shabbat candles. I thought everyone lit Shabbat candles on Friday. It didn't occur to me that it was only something Jews did.
An amusing anecdote:
My family's background is Catholic - specifically, Irish and French-Canadian Catholic on my mother's side, and Polish Catholic on my father's. One of my uncles moved with his family to Long Island early on, and so both their kids grew up there and went to the local schools there and such. And in the town where they settled, the best day care in town was run by the local reform Synagogue. My aunt and uncle didn't care - it was a good daycare and that was all they cared about. And if they happened to emphasize Jewish traditions a little more as a result, so what.
Which lead to the absolutely delightful sight one Thanksgiving of my three-year-old cousin running up to my grandparents and gushing that "Nana, Grampie, guess what! Last week at day care I was the Sabbath Queen and I got to help carry the Torah and EVERYTHING!"
My grandparents put on big smiles and gushed about how that must have been very exciting for her - and then as soon as she skipped off they turned to my uncle with bewildered looks and asked, "that IS a good thing, right?....Okay, good."
Kids can just roll with this stuff easier than you think. Especially if you present it as "some people just do this different thing and it's all good, it's just how they roll". We had the same kind of thing in grade school where a parent came in to tell us all about Hannukkah every year - although, my grade school was way more homogenous and there were only two kids in my grade who were Jewish, and I had them both in my classes all through grade school so we got to see a lot of Molly's Mom or Seth's Mom over the years, so much so that by fifth grade Seth was looking distinctly sick of the whole exercise when his mom showed up for yet another "here's what a menorah is, everyone" session.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
An amusing anecdote:
My family's background is Catholic - specifically, Irish and French-Canadian Catholic on my mother's side, and Polish Catholic on my father's. One of my uncles moved with his family to Long Island early on, and so both their kids grew up there and went to the local schools there and such. And in the town where they settled, the best day care in town was run by the local reform Synagogue. My aunt and uncle didn't care - it was a good daycare and that was all they cared about. And if they happened to emphasize Jewish traditions a little more as a result, so what.
Which lead to the absolutely delightful sight one Thanksgiving of my three-year-old cousin running up to my grandparents and gushing that "Nana, Grampie, guess what! Last week at day care I was the Sabbath Queen and I got to help carry the Torah and EVERYTHING!"
My grandparents put on big smiles and gushed about how that must have been very exciting for her - and then as soon as she skipped off they turned to my uncle with bewildered looks and asked, "that IS a good thing, right?....Okay, good."
Kids can just roll with this stuff easier than you think. Especially if you present it as "some people just do this different thing and it's all good, it's just how they roll". We had the same kind of thing in grade school where a parent came in to tell us all about Hannukkah every year - although, my grade school was way more homogenous and there were only two kids in my grade who were Jewish, and I had them both in my classes all through grade school so we got to see a lot of Molly's Mom or Seth's Mom over the years, so much so that by fifth grade Seth was looking distinctly sick of the whole exercise when his mom showed up for yet another "here's what a menorah is, everyone" session.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
boo_radley : wife says: "somewhere Kirk Cameron is penning a sternly worded but badly paced script about this."
Here you go; Saving Christmas, starring Kirk Cameron, due for limited release on November 14, 2014.
posted by quin at 10:56 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Here you go; Saving Christmas, starring Kirk Cameron, due for limited release on November 14, 2014.
posted by quin at 10:56 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
they're not coming into work with delicious Iranian sweets if we give them days off for their holiday, are they?
Actually, that raises a good point - was this all about deciding which holidays to allow off for absences, or to cancel school for, or was it just about which holidays to mention on a calendar as "This Is Something That Exists", kind of like Arbor Day or something?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:57 AM on November 13, 2014
Actually, that raises a good point - was this all about deciding which holidays to allow off for absences, or to cancel school for, or was it just about which holidays to mention on a calendar as "This Is Something That Exists", kind of like Arbor Day or something?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:57 AM on November 13, 2014
I was raised in Montgomery, MD and while growing up in the early 70s my friends in family in other states were amazed — and jealous — that I got Jewish holidays off. But I also recall some adults (not always) whispering about how terrible it was to give the Jews their holidays, and how inconvenient it would be for them because they didn't have off work — often said by the many homemakers that made up my community. Despite being one of the more liberal counties in the state at the time, there were many people who would have preferred to have a nondescript day off rather than say it was for Yom Kippur.
IMHO, the school board was between a rock and a hard place, and in a lose-lose situation, but I think they made the right decision. As others have said, religion has no place in public school.
And while one can assume there is anti-Muslim sentiment behind the decision, do we know for sure? Seriously, I only read parts of articles after seeing it pop up in my "news" feed on Facebook. I didn't see any quotes saying "let's stick it to them."
posted by terrapin at 10:59 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
IMHO, the school board was between a rock and a hard place, and in a lose-lose situation, but I think they made the right decision. As others have said, religion has no place in public school.
And while one can assume there is anti-Muslim sentiment behind the decision, do we know for sure? Seriously, I only read parts of articles after seeing it pop up in my "news" feed on Facebook. I didn't see any quotes saying "let's stick it to them."
posted by terrapin at 10:59 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
I used t o make a calendar, with hand drawn icons for every celebration. There was only one day in the year I couldn't find a celebration. This is not such a bad idea. As long as schools understand Ramadan, and their students may be tired and hungry.
posted by Oyéah at 11:00 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by Oyéah at 11:00 AM on November 13, 2014
As a godless left coaster
And so began the war of the coasters. Left coaster vs right coaster, cork coasters vs ceramic coasters. Cute kitten coasters vs traditional village green coasters. And death and destruction ruled over all, except the tables, which were at least well protected from hot drinks.
posted by biffa at 11:01 AM on November 13, 2014 [15 favorites]
And so began the war of the coasters. Left coaster vs right coaster, cork coasters vs ceramic coasters. Cute kitten coasters vs traditional village green coasters. And death and destruction ruled over all, except the tables, which were at least well protected from hot drinks.
posted by biffa at 11:01 AM on November 13, 2014 [15 favorites]
Hey now. Hold the phone (again). If you cat people get your Ribbon Holiday, I demand equal treatment. I'm declaring Tennis Ball Holiday for us dog types.
posted by Beti at 11:02 AM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by Beti at 11:02 AM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
I honestly wonder what Jefferson's position on this stuff would be if he were alive today. Striking traditional holiday names from the calendar might be a step in the right direction towards a rich and peaceful religious landscape. But it's hard to ignore the animosity driving such decisions, and of course, the fear that such a landscape is unrealizable.
posted by phaedon at 11:05 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by phaedon at 11:05 AM on November 13, 2014
I love how the dominant culture suddenly wants Separation between the state and religion once a minority culture seeks Equal treatment.
posted by Renoroc at 11:11 AM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 11:11 AM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
Actually, that raises a good point - was this all about deciding which holidays to allow off for absences, or to cancel school for, or was it just about which holidays to mention on a calendar as "This Is Something That Exists", kind of like Arbor Day or something?
It's about what reason to put on the calendar for the various official holidays. If you look at the current Montgomery County School Calendar you'll see that Thursday, Sept. 25 is labeled as "Rosh Hashanah" followed by a note to the effect that the school will be closed. In future editions of the calendar (assuming this decision isn't overturned by the power of Fox News) it will simply note that the school is closed on that day without providing the religious rationale.
Personally, I think the board made the right decision in the abstract (no public school should be officially endorsing certain religions and not others), but it is undoubtedly the case that it's unfortunate that it was in response to the (understandable) desire of Muslims to have their religion on "equal footing" with the Christians and the Jews that this decision was made. Still, in the end, you have to do the right thing even if it looks bad in context. There are lots of school districts that don't list specific religious events on their school calendars and nobody gives a damn about it. If you want to teach students about religious holidays, no one is preventing you from buying a regular calendar from the local bookshop and using it to guide you in planning your lessons.
posted by yoink at 11:12 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's about what reason to put on the calendar for the various official holidays. If you look at the current Montgomery County School Calendar you'll see that Thursday, Sept. 25 is labeled as "Rosh Hashanah" followed by a note to the effect that the school will be closed. In future editions of the calendar (assuming this decision isn't overturned by the power of Fox News) it will simply note that the school is closed on that day without providing the religious rationale.
Personally, I think the board made the right decision in the abstract (no public school should be officially endorsing certain religions and not others), but it is undoubtedly the case that it's unfortunate that it was in response to the (understandable) desire of Muslims to have their religion on "equal footing" with the Christians and the Jews that this decision was made. Still, in the end, you have to do the right thing even if it looks bad in context. There are lots of school districts that don't list specific religious events on their school calendars and nobody gives a damn about it. If you want to teach students about religious holidays, no one is preventing you from buying a regular calendar from the local bookshop and using it to guide you in planning your lessons.
posted by yoink at 11:12 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
whispering about how terrible it was to give the Jews their holidays, and how inconvenient it would be for them because they didn't have off work
I feel the same way about whichever religion gets off Martin Luther King Day, President's Day and Veteran's Day. Making alternate arrangements for daycare is annoying.
posted by Slothrup at 11:17 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I feel the same way about whichever religion gets off Martin Luther King Day, President's Day and Veteran's Day. Making alternate arrangements for daycare is annoying.
posted by Slothrup at 11:17 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I love how the dominant culture suddenly wants Separation between the state and religion once a minority culture seeks Equal treatment.
I understand the feeling, but I don't actually think that this is what happened here. If you look at the membership of the Montgomery County School Board they look like a pretty typical bunch of what Fox News would (and will, I guess) describe as "godless liberals." I really don't think this was an "OMG, we mustn't acknowledge the Muslims!" decision so much as a "hey, now we look at it, it's really weird and wrong that we're dotting our official school calendar with specific religious content!" one.
posted by yoink at 11:17 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I understand the feeling, but I don't actually think that this is what happened here. If you look at the membership of the Montgomery County School Board they look like a pretty typical bunch of what Fox News would (and will, I guess) describe as "godless liberals." I really don't think this was an "OMG, we mustn't acknowledge the Muslims!" decision so much as a "hey, now we look at it, it's really weird and wrong that we're dotting our official school calendar with specific religious content!" one.
posted by yoink at 11:17 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
1. Potato harvesting days off in northern Maine should be a thing everywhere. Instead of harvesting potatoes, though, I will eat mashed. Deal?
2. I miss living in the Orthodox neighborhood. My more secular-Jewish neighbors could be counted on for spectacular baked goods come Purim, etc.
3. Holidays are awesome. More cookies for erryone!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:18 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
2. I miss living in the Orthodox neighborhood. My more secular-Jewish neighbors could be counted on for spectacular baked goods come Purim, etc.
3. Holidays are awesome. More cookies for erryone!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:18 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Eid means Iranian co-workers bring in Iranian sweets. The fools must not know what they're missing out on, or they would never have done this.
You're probably thinking of the wrong Eid. This is about the Muslim holiday, not the (more awesome) Eid-eh Norwuz.
There are actually 2 Muslim Eid - Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha. al-Adha is the Greater Eid and doesn't involve sweets, but Eid al-Fitr is at the end of Ramadan and involves LOTS OF TASTY NOMS.
(Also, we could use someone who knows more about Muslim traditions in this thread, because right now an atheist Jew is trying her best to keep the facts straight!)
posted by Sophie1 at 11:22 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
You're probably thinking of the wrong Eid. This is about the Muslim holiday, not the (more awesome) Eid-eh Norwuz.
There are actually 2 Muslim Eid - Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha. al-Adha is the Greater Eid and doesn't involve sweets, but Eid al-Fitr is at the end of Ramadan and involves LOTS OF TASTY NOMS.
(Also, we could use someone who knows more about Muslim traditions in this thread, because right now an atheist Jew is trying her best to keep the facts straight!)
posted by Sophie1 at 11:22 AM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Man, I do not understand the hostility some people have towards public schools dealing with the fact that people will take days off for religious holidays. If a certain percentage of people are definitely going to be absent, then yes, you should not have school that day. Keeping it open is just a waste of time and money.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:24 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:24 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Where I live, with a growing Chinese and Indian population, the deal is that you petition to have a given holiday put on the school calendar. The minimum number of signatures is five hundred, after which all households with children in school are asked if they would or would not keep their children home on that day. If a threshold of fifteen percent is reached, the school board votes on keeping the school open or closing it.
What, if anything, are other districts doing?
(FYI, here are the survey results in PDF format)
posted by BWA at 11:31 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
What, if anything, are other districts doing?
(FYI, here are the survey results in PDF format)
posted by BWA at 11:31 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Don't call it a calendar. Call it a history textbook.
posted by garisimo at 11:35 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by garisimo at 11:35 AM on November 13, 2014
As someone who grew up in and around Montgomery County and attended its public schools, I have a hard time ascribing bad intent to this decision. Doesn't jibe with my experience. Then again a big portion of my experience was with Michael Durso (quoted as the sole dissenting vote) as my high school principal.
If they assign holidays based on statistical attendance, I think that's great. The county is way too diverse for it to be fair any other way, and "religious holidays" are excused absences for students even if not days off.
posted by zennie at 11:36 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
If they assign holidays based on statistical attendance, I think that's great. The county is way too diverse for it to be fair any other way, and "religious holidays" are excused absences for students even if not days off.
posted by zennie at 11:36 AM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think public schools should be closed for Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and whatever other religion's holidays I'm forgetting. We could do this by eliminating the long summer break. Kids forget a lot of stuff over the summer, and get out of the swing of learning.
posted by Daddy-O at 11:43 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by Daddy-O at 11:43 AM on November 13, 2014
This is already being spun by certain news sources as 'Muslims Get School to Ban Christmas Because It Offends Them."
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:44 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:44 AM on November 13, 2014
We could do this by eliminating the long summer break. Kids forget a lot of stuff over the summer, and get out of the swing of learning.
Eeek, no. As a child (who graduated top of my high school class), I desperately needed my long summer break. Decompressing at camp, learning to swim, horseback ride, etc. with kids my own age was as important to me as school, if not more.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:44 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
Eeek, no. As a child (who graduated top of my high school class), I desperately needed my long summer break. Decompressing at camp, learning to swim, horseback ride, etc. with kids my own age was as important to me as school, if not more.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:44 AM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
Children had summer off to work their family's farms, the spring holiday to plant.
posted by Oyéah at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by Oyéah at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2014
The religious worry by celebrating others' holidays, they will go to hell. The Catch 22, thinking this way, is the shortcut.
posted by Oyéah at 11:54 AM on November 13, 2014
posted by Oyéah at 11:54 AM on November 13, 2014
10 Full-Blown Jesus Songs and a 2 minute Jew-medley
One of Sinatra's bigger albums.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:54 AM on November 13, 2014 [16 favorites]
One of Sinatra's bigger albums.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:54 AM on November 13, 2014 [16 favorites]
This is already being spun by certain news sources as 'Muslims Ban Christmas Because It Offends Them."
This calls for Liz Lemon's Masterpiece Eye Roll.
posted by Beti at 11:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
This calls for Liz Lemon's Masterpiece Eye Roll.
posted by Beti at 11:55 AM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
It was wonderful to make an illuminate calendar over year to see how the holidays of all religions and culture intertwine with the moon pages, and solar celebrations.
posted by Oyéah at 11:59 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 11:59 AM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Great, now I guess we're going to have remove Woden's Day and Thor's Day from the calendar too.
posted by BurntHombre at 12:01 PM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by BurntHombre at 12:01 PM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
I really don't think this was an "OMG, we mustn't acknowledge the Muslims!" decision so much as a "hey, now we look at it, it's really weird and wrong that we're dotting our official school calendar with specific religious content!" one.
But the broader objection isn't what's written on the calendar, it's the fact that the schools are still going to be closed in observance of Christian and Jewish holidays (in what schmod notes is a pretty secular school district) in all but name. The Muslim holidays will not be observed at all.
In addition, the county hasn't provided a method for the community to have the holiday added, the way that BWA describes in his district. What's the definition of "significant absenteeism"? If only 3% of the district's population is Jewish, it sure isn't the 20% Eyebrows McGee mentioned in Illinois. I think the inclusion of Jewish holidays (which I'm fine with) kind of puts the lie to the absenteeism claim.
I know that the Christmas and Easter breaks are well-entrenched, and God knows my Roman Catholic butt enjoyed every moment of them, but being excused from school for a religious holiday is not the same as the school being closed. If you aren't celebrating Christmas, no one is going to know. But if you want your absence excused, you need to identify yourself to the school as a member of a religion. To my mind, it's similar to the reason that simply excusing kids from group prayer in public schools isn't enough-- the kids are forced to either pray along and keep quiet or publicly acknowledge their religious allegiance or not.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:01 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
But the broader objection isn't what's written on the calendar, it's the fact that the schools are still going to be closed in observance of Christian and Jewish holidays (in what schmod notes is a pretty secular school district) in all but name. The Muslim holidays will not be observed at all.
In addition, the county hasn't provided a method for the community to have the holiday added, the way that BWA describes in his district. What's the definition of "significant absenteeism"? If only 3% of the district's population is Jewish, it sure isn't the 20% Eyebrows McGee mentioned in Illinois. I think the inclusion of Jewish holidays (which I'm fine with) kind of puts the lie to the absenteeism claim.
I know that the Christmas and Easter breaks are well-entrenched, and God knows my Roman Catholic butt enjoyed every moment of them, but being excused from school for a religious holiday is not the same as the school being closed. If you aren't celebrating Christmas, no one is going to know. But if you want your absence excused, you need to identify yourself to the school as a member of a religion. To my mind, it's similar to the reason that simply excusing kids from group prayer in public schools isn't enough-- the kids are forced to either pray along and keep quiet or publicly acknowledge their religious allegiance or not.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:01 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Great, now I guess we're going to have remove Woden's Day and Thor's Day from the calendar too.
Don't forget Tīw's Day and Frige's Day!
posted by Sys Rq at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Don't forget Tīw's Day and Frige's Day!
posted by Sys Rq at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos: Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a break in winter is because of Christmas in the first place?
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a Christmas is because of winter break in the first place?
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:12 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a Christmas is because of winter break in the first place?
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:12 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Board members pointed to the Fairfax County school system’s calendar as an example; the largest school district in Virginia does not call out such religious holidays by name.
That was my school district, and this is true. And Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah are not days off, but Christmas and (the week of) Easter are. So essentially what happened was that my school district just discriminated against more people using this same justification.
posted by capricorn at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2014
That was my school district, and this is true. And Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah are not days off, but Christmas and (the week of) Easter are. So essentially what happened was that my school district just discriminated against more people using this same justification.
posted by capricorn at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2014
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a Christmas is because of winter break in the first place?
It probably has.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
It probably has.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Criminy. If you have any distractible right-wing Facebook friends that you haven't hidden yet, please do so now. This is not a drill. This is a level 1 alert. Repeat, not a drill, level 1 alert.
posted by ftm at 12:15 PM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by ftm at 12:15 PM on November 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
If only 3% of the district's population is Jewish, it sure isn't the 20% Eyebrows McGee mentioned in Illinois. I think the inclusion of Jewish holidays (which I'm fine with) kind of puts the lie to the absenteeism claim.
It's surely higher than 3%, Montgomery County has a substantial jewish population, here's one estimate at 11.6% of the county's overall population.
posted by peeedro at 12:17 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's surely higher than 3%, Montgomery County has a substantial jewish population, here's one estimate at 11.6% of the county's overall population.
posted by peeedro at 12:17 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
And death and destruction ruled over all, except the tables, which were at least well protected from hot drinks.
WHAT NO it is to protect furniture from condensation rings caused by cold drinks, you vile coaster apostate.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:32 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
WHAT NO it is to protect furniture from condensation rings caused by cold drinks, you vile coaster apostate.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:32 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
If only 3% of the district's population is Jewish
I don't think Wikipedia has that stat right... it's almost certainly more (on preview, what peeedro said).
I have no idea how previous decisions were made, but there's certainly going to be scrutiny going forward.
posted by zennie at 12:32 PM on November 13, 2014
I don't think Wikipedia has that stat right... it's almost certainly more (on preview, what peeedro said).
I have no idea how previous decisions were made, but there's certainly going to be scrutiny going forward.
posted by zennie at 12:32 PM on November 13, 2014
I am the Walrus: Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a Christmas is because of winter break in the first place?
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you, in the city of David, schools out for ten whole days!"
posted by dr_dank at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you, in the city of David, schools out for ten whole days!"
posted by dr_dank at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
Gad! I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic high schools. I say this so the following comment clearly comes not from an outsider:
I'm so sick of Christians who feel that there faith is being compromised when the whole world doesn't go out of their way to acknowledge it to the maximum degree. It's not enough they are welcome to put up all the nativity scenes and the like on every square inch of their private property. Public and open to the public spaces must acknowledge Christ's birth or they are being oppressed. Including anyone else is just wrong.
(Unless you are a Jew. Then we'll welcome your menorah, regardless of when Hanukkah actually falls this year. We'll give it a good spot and point it out. After all, it is ourfig leaf clear sign that we are inclusive of all faiths.)
posted by MrGuilt at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm so sick of Christians who feel that there faith is being compromised when the whole world doesn't go out of their way to acknowledge it to the maximum degree. It's not enough they are welcome to put up all the nativity scenes and the like on every square inch of their private property. Public and open to the public spaces must acknowledge Christ's birth or they are being oppressed. Including anyone else is just wrong.
(Unless you are a Jew. Then we'll welcome your menorah, regardless of when Hanukkah actually falls this year. We'll give it a good spot and point it out. After all, it is our
posted by MrGuilt at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Not only should they remove all religious holidays, but also to prepare the kids for their worKing life, all days off should be removed. Also, students should be required to have to come into school on random Saturdays. And occasionally a random portion of the student body will either have to stay at school until 6:00pm, or they're schedule will be changed to go from 3:00-10:00 for a semester.
Also, every Friday there should be an hour-long student meeting right after school on "How can we improve student morale."
posted by happyroach at 12:47 PM on November 13, 2014 [23 favorites]
Also, every Friday there should be an hour-long student meeting right after school on "How can we improve student morale."
posted by happyroach at 12:47 PM on November 13, 2014 [23 favorites]
It's surely higher than 3%, Montgomery County has a substantial jewish population, here's one estimate at 11.6% of the county's overall population.
Religious Jews may send their kids to either Charles E. Smith Jewish Day School in Rockville or the Hebrew Day School of Montgomery County. The CESJDS is a private, pluralistic K-12 school with around 200 faculty and 1200 students. Many Jewish day schools nationwide do not go past Grade 6, 7 or 8, so a Hebrew high school has to be well attended to survive. HDS is K-7 with about 75 students.
posted by qi at 12:49 PM on November 13, 2014
Religious Jews may send their kids to either Charles E. Smith Jewish Day School in Rockville or the Hebrew Day School of Montgomery County. The CESJDS is a private, pluralistic K-12 school with around 200 faculty and 1200 students. Many Jewish day schools nationwide do not go past Grade 6, 7 or 8, so a Hebrew high school has to be well attended to survive. HDS is K-7 with about 75 students.
posted by qi at 12:49 PM on November 13, 2014
"Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, for he is a vile coaster apostate."
posted by pyramid termite at 12:49 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 12:49 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Snarl Furillo: "If only 3% of the district's population is Jewish, it sure isn't the 20% Eyebrows McGee mentioned in Illinois. I think the inclusion of Jewish holidays (which I'm fine with) kind of puts the lie to the absenteeism claim."
Just to be clear, I was spitballing; I'm too lazy to look up the actual guideline.
It's also very difficult, once a holiday is entrenched in a local community's calendar, to remove it. Not that many kids in my current public district observe Good Friday in any significant way, between a drop in Catholic population, a strong Catholic school system that vacuums up the observant ones anyway, and growth in Evangelical and non-Christian populations. If they were making the calendar from scratch, I'm not sure Good Friday would reach whatever the threshold is anymore. But taking Good Friday AWAY would be a nightmare, not just resulting in a religious backlash, but backlash from parents who plan travel around the extended weekend and from teachers who have structured their lesson plans around it for 20 years. People get VERY UPSET when you take away their holidays, perhaps especially when it's SOMEONE ELSE'S holiday that they don't have to go to religious services for. (I am still -- still! -- grumpy I no longer get Rosh Hashanah off because that was the BEST HOLIDAY EVER, what with all the sitting around doing nothing I got to do while all my friends were at services. So great!)
I don't know a lot about Montgomery County but it may be that they had a larger Jewish population in the past and the days are still just hanging out on the calendar from back then. The other possibility is that they have, or had, a larger proportion of Jewish teachers than the community's demographics would suggest, and hiring subs is a significant financial and practical burden. (I have seen this sort of thing happen a few times, where the teaching corps is significantly demographically different than your student body because teaching requires a college degree and, 30 and more years ago, the sort of parents who'd send daughters to college. Teaching is also disproportionately favored by "first into the middle class" or "first to college" young people, particularly children of immigrants. Anyway, sometimes it's significant enough to close the school because so many of your TEACHERS have religious/cultural observances even if your students don't.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:52 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just to be clear, I was spitballing; I'm too lazy to look up the actual guideline.
It's also very difficult, once a holiday is entrenched in a local community's calendar, to remove it. Not that many kids in my current public district observe Good Friday in any significant way, between a drop in Catholic population, a strong Catholic school system that vacuums up the observant ones anyway, and growth in Evangelical and non-Christian populations. If they were making the calendar from scratch, I'm not sure Good Friday would reach whatever the threshold is anymore. But taking Good Friday AWAY would be a nightmare, not just resulting in a religious backlash, but backlash from parents who plan travel around the extended weekend and from teachers who have structured their lesson plans around it for 20 years. People get VERY UPSET when you take away their holidays, perhaps especially when it's SOMEONE ELSE'S holiday that they don't have to go to religious services for. (I am still -- still! -- grumpy I no longer get Rosh Hashanah off because that was the BEST HOLIDAY EVER, what with all the sitting around doing nothing I got to do while all my friends were at services. So great!)
I don't know a lot about Montgomery County but it may be that they had a larger Jewish population in the past and the days are still just hanging out on the calendar from back then. The other possibility is that they have, or had, a larger proportion of Jewish teachers than the community's demographics would suggest, and hiring subs is a significant financial and practical burden. (I have seen this sort of thing happen a few times, where the teaching corps is significantly demographically different than your student body because teaching requires a college degree and, 30 and more years ago, the sort of parents who'd send daughters to college. Teaching is also disproportionately favored by "first into the middle class" or "first to college" young people, particularly children of immigrants. Anyway, sometimes it's significant enough to close the school because so many of your TEACHERS have religious/cultural observances even if your students don't.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:52 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not only should they remove all religious holidays, but also to prepare the kids for their worKing life, all days off should be removed.
You joke, but my parents didn't pull me out of school on Muslim holidays or Persian New Year because they themselves had to work, and when I attempted to wheedle myself a day off of school, they'd say no because "that's what it's going to be like when you're older." I've always taken it for granted that I will never, ever get "my" holidays off short of making a specific accommodation for them or them falling on already established holidays. The only time I did get the day off specifically because of the holiday, it was in my Persian/Near Eastern Studies classes in college when the professors were all, "Happy New Year, no class that day!" because they themselves were celebrating/observing. I am otherwise one of those coworkers bringing in sweets on Persian New Year's while working through it.
I can see that there's plenty of context/non-gross reasons for Montgomery County to do this, but it doesn't look that great.
posted by yasaman at 12:57 PM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
You joke, but my parents didn't pull me out of school on Muslim holidays or Persian New Year because they themselves had to work, and when I attempted to wheedle myself a day off of school, they'd say no because "that's what it's going to be like when you're older." I've always taken it for granted that I will never, ever get "my" holidays off short of making a specific accommodation for them or them falling on already established holidays. The only time I did get the day off specifically because of the holiday, it was in my Persian/Near Eastern Studies classes in college when the professors were all, "Happy New Year, no class that day!" because they themselves were celebrating/observing. I am otherwise one of those coworkers bringing in sweets on Persian New Year's while working through it.
I can see that there's plenty of context/non-gross reasons for Montgomery County to do this, but it doesn't look that great.
posted by yasaman at 12:57 PM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
Sometimes it's necessary to explicitly tell Christians that they have to be tolerant of other people's religions.
And yet some Christians already know it -- often because they are good Christians!
An illustration: last weekend my son's Boy Scout troop did their big annual "thank you to the families for your support" meal. A few parents (*modest cough*) spent the day cooking eight turkeys, 40 pounds of potatoes, and the rest of a traditional Thanksgiving meal, using just the skimpy kitchenette in the Scout camp lodge. That night, all the families of all the boys came for dinner. Yay, three rooms jammed with happy eaters!
The oldest Cub Scouts are invited, too, as away to sample Boy Scouting. (I have a Boy Scout and a Cub Scout. Yay for next year when I go down to just one set of meetings!) One of the Cub Scouts is Muslim, and so his mom brought along an entire turkey she had roasted at home. ("It's a Martha Stewart recipe, " she told us.) She was explaining their dietary restrictions to a few of us cooks, and said that they cooked it Kosher. I asked, hesitantly, "Kosher or Halal?"
She couldn't believe that anyone actually knew the word, much less what it meant, and she asked how I knew. I had to say, "Um, 'cause I'm a good Catholic." See, I went to Catholic schools as a kid, so we learned a lot about other religions: how can you understand your own faith without putting it into a historical context, or without learning the similarities to and differences with other faiths?
Sure, also, my uncle-in-law was a 400-pound Jewish caterer, and my neighbors were Jewish, and my family is big into food, and I am not an ignoramus…but honestly, we were just taught a lot about other religions in school and most of it sank in. I can't explain why Eis is such a big deal, but I was able to explain enough of the basics of Halal so that this kid's family could join the rest of the guests without being set apart. Which was pretty awesome, and the kind of hospitality that made me feel proud.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:22 PM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
And yet some Christians already know it -- often because they are good Christians!
An illustration: last weekend my son's Boy Scout troop did their big annual "thank you to the families for your support" meal. A few parents (*modest cough*) spent the day cooking eight turkeys, 40 pounds of potatoes, and the rest of a traditional Thanksgiving meal, using just the skimpy kitchenette in the Scout camp lodge. That night, all the families of all the boys came for dinner. Yay, three rooms jammed with happy eaters!
The oldest Cub Scouts are invited, too, as away to sample Boy Scouting. (I have a Boy Scout and a Cub Scout. Yay for next year when I go down to just one set of meetings!) One of the Cub Scouts is Muslim, and so his mom brought along an entire turkey she had roasted at home. ("It's a Martha Stewart recipe, " she told us.) She was explaining their dietary restrictions to a few of us cooks, and said that they cooked it Kosher. I asked, hesitantly, "Kosher or Halal?"
She couldn't believe that anyone actually knew the word, much less what it meant, and she asked how I knew. I had to say, "Um, 'cause I'm a good Catholic." See, I went to Catholic schools as a kid, so we learned a lot about other religions: how can you understand your own faith without putting it into a historical context, or without learning the similarities to and differences with other faiths?
Sure, also, my uncle-in-law was a 400-pound Jewish caterer, and my neighbors were Jewish, and my family is big into food, and I am not an ignoramus…but honestly, we were just taught a lot about other religions in school and most of it sank in. I can't explain why Eis is such a big deal, but I was able to explain enough of the basics of Halal so that this kid's family could join the rest of the guests without being set apart. Which was pretty awesome, and the kind of hospitality that made me feel proud.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:22 PM on November 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
I used t o make a calendar, with hand drawn icons for every celebration. There was only one day in the year I couldn't find a celebration.
And then you celebrate that day as The Day Without Any Celebrations. One suggested activity for TDWAC: discuss the smallest uninteresting number.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:14 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
And then you celebrate that day as The Day Without Any Celebrations. One suggested activity for TDWAC: discuss the smallest uninteresting number.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:14 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I wasn't planning on putting up a tree this year, as I'm afraid the kittens will bring it down and hurt themselves. I find this Ribbon holiday quite intriguing and I would like a copy of your brochure.
posted by longdaysjourney at 3:07 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 3:07 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
> We could do this by eliminating the long summer break. Kids forget a lot of stuff over the summer, and get out of the swing of learning.
I'll just lay this down here to edify you northerners, shall I? (Bonus info.)
Although my own schooldays are now decades behind me, it was always kinda cool having all this holiday stuff coincide with our equivalent of your summer break.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 3:43 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'll just lay this down here to edify you northerners, shall I? (Bonus info.)
Although my own schooldays are now decades behind me, it was always kinda cool having all this holiday stuff coincide with our equivalent of your summer break.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 3:43 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm afraid the kittens will bring it down and hurt themselves
NO what you must do is set up both an enormous sturdy tree AND a streaming kitteh webcam
posted by poffin boffin at 3:52 PM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
NO what you must do is set up both an enormous sturdy tree AND a streaming kitteh webcam
posted by poffin boffin at 3:52 PM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
> I wasn't planning on putting up a tree this year, as I'm afraid the kittens will bring it down and hurt themselves.
Those are two seriously debauched-looking kittehs.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 3:58 PM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
Those are two seriously debauched-looking kittehs.
posted by Autumn Leaf at 3:58 PM on November 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
If you have any distractible right-wing Facebook friends that you haven't hidden yet, please do so now.
Seriously? This is Montgomery-freaking-county, where the official county bird is a Prius and the official county anthem is Philip Glass's Music In Twelve Parts. The only time you'd see seven Republicans together is if they get lost on the way back from the drag race in Crofton.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:35 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Seriously? This is Montgomery-freaking-county, where the official county bird is a Prius and the official county anthem is Philip Glass's Music In Twelve Parts. The only time you'd see seven Republicans together is if they get lost on the way back from the drag race in Crofton.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:35 PM on November 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised by many of the responses in this thread. While it could be that this is some sort of bigoted, anti-Muslim move, knowing the demographics of the county and reading the summary in TFA, including the comments from the board members themselves, it doesn't really look like it. It looks like the school board members saw this as a slippery slope, and decided to opt out of the whole set of issues, which I think is the right decision. And even if it was for bad reasons, this is still a good decision.
There is simply no reason to include religious holidays on a school calendar. Regular calendars are available everywhere, that list all sorts of holidays--religious and secular--and an academic calendar specific to a school district has no reason to include that information.
I've lived (and taught) in California long enough that I had to remember that some school districts still have religious holidays indicated on their calendars--none of ours do (and somehow, everyone knows when they are, and all adherents are free to observe as they choose). The biggest issue we've faced at my university recently is that our spring break timing is still tied to Easter, which is ridiculous mainly because it causes the timing of that "mid"-semester break to vary by as much as six weeks from year-to-year. There was a huge recent discussion about this and the conclusion was to leave it as is, not because of Easter, but because the local public school districts still time their spring breaks to Easter, and all the parents on the faculty did not want differently-timed weeks off between kids and parents. So there's an issue there yet to be resolved, but otherwise the calendars are secular. (And "winter break" is not a euphemism for "Christmas break," it's the natural halfway point in timing for a semester-based calendar with equal numbers of weeks in each semester.)
There are just so many assumptions and conclusions jumped to in this thread's comments, and vitriolic reactions based on that, I'm surprised.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:35 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
There is simply no reason to include religious holidays on a school calendar. Regular calendars are available everywhere, that list all sorts of holidays--religious and secular--and an academic calendar specific to a school district has no reason to include that information.
I've lived (and taught) in California long enough that I had to remember that some school districts still have religious holidays indicated on their calendars--none of ours do (and somehow, everyone knows when they are, and all adherents are free to observe as they choose). The biggest issue we've faced at my university recently is that our spring break timing is still tied to Easter, which is ridiculous mainly because it causes the timing of that "mid"-semester break to vary by as much as six weeks from year-to-year. There was a huge recent discussion about this and the conclusion was to leave it as is, not because of Easter, but because the local public school districts still time their spring breaks to Easter, and all the parents on the faculty did not want differently-timed weeks off between kids and parents. So there's an issue there yet to be resolved, but otherwise the calendars are secular. (And "winter break" is not a euphemism for "Christmas break," it's the natural halfway point in timing for a semester-based calendar with equal numbers of weeks in each semester.)
There are just so many assumptions and conclusions jumped to in this thread's comments, and vitriolic reactions based on that, I'm surprised.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:35 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
In NY there are 180 mandatory school days. My district schedules 183 or 184 with the expected snow days built into the calendar. Then they work backwards. The State gives Regents exams on specific dates near the end of June and school ends the next week. By contract (not state law I think) my district teachers will not start classes before Labor Day. So now there is a window in which 184 days need to be fit. First, they look at Federal Holidays. Then they look for days that are likely to have high absences as well as spreading out the days. They have to plan midterms and preps for Regents and AP exams. At the end of the process, there are some pretty obvious time to close school. We are closed for two weeks Dec 22 thru Jan 2nd. One reason for two weeks besides New Years and Christmas is the cost of heating the school and keeping it open. The more it is closed in the cold months the cheaper. They call this break "Holiday Recess" Maybe that refers to New Years...maybe.
Next there is a Winter Break which usually falls in the third or fourth week of February. The only reason I can think of for this besides it is spaced properly and the cost issue is to give a chance for parents to get away from the long winter blues.
Then we always have a Spring Break from the week before Easter. It usually encompasses Passover and of course Good Friday.
If a school in NY starts giving every religions holidays off, it will either have to extend the school year into July or get rid of the full week breaks.
Montgomery seems to have come to a reasonable operating conclusion for all the wrong reasons. And they do sound like insensitive a-holes (except for the one Board member that voted to have the day off)
posted by 724A at 4:39 PM on November 13, 2014
Next there is a Winter Break which usually falls in the third or fourth week of February. The only reason I can think of for this besides it is spaced properly and the cost issue is to give a chance for parents to get away from the long winter blues.
Then we always have a Spring Break from the week before Easter. It usually encompasses Passover and of course Good Friday.
If a school in NY starts giving every religions holidays off, it will either have to extend the school year into July or get rid of the full week breaks.
Montgomery seems to have come to a reasonable operating conclusion for all the wrong reasons. And they do sound like insensitive a-holes (except for the one Board member that voted to have the day off)
posted by 724A at 4:39 PM on November 13, 2014
724A: And they do sound like insensitive a-holes
Really? How? From the article:
Board members pointed to the Fairfax County school system’s calendar as an example; the largest school district in Virginia does not call out such religious holidays by name.
“This seems the most equitable option,” said board member Rebecca Smondrowski (District 2), who offered the amendment.
Board members talked at length about not wishing to disrespect the Muslim community or those from other faiths.
Several board members pledged to produce a clearer standard for the kind of operational impacts that might lead to further consideration of closing schools on a Muslim holiday in the future.
Those don't sound like insensitive reasons communicated by assholes. They sound like thoughtful opinions from school board members caught in a no-win situation.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:45 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Really? How? From the article:
Board members pointed to the Fairfax County school system’s calendar as an example; the largest school district in Virginia does not call out such religious holidays by name.
“This seems the most equitable option,” said board member Rebecca Smondrowski (District 2), who offered the amendment.
Board members talked at length about not wishing to disrespect the Muslim community or those from other faiths.
Several board members pledged to produce a clearer standard for the kind of operational impacts that might lead to further consideration of closing schools on a Muslim holiday in the future.
Those don't sound like insensitive reasons communicated by assholes. They sound like thoughtful opinions from school board members caught in a no-win situation.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:45 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
LooseFilter: I think they came to the correct decision. From my reading of the articles, I got the impression they were hiding behind the no religion thing to not give the Muslim holiday. They are not changing the dates of any of the days off, just changing the reason. It turns out in next year's calendar it does not matter because the holidays overlap.
For many many practical reasons, I think the decision to not change the practice of giving off during certain religions holidays makes sense. I am an atheist and I could care less if you call it Christmas break or end of term break of winter break. I know that productivity at work that week will be close to nil, that the football games are on tv, etc.
And, as I said, there are certain scheduling limitations that sort of dictate a lot of it. One, I failed to mention is that in NY all districts belong to a BOCES. Because the districts are smaller they pool resources for a lot of career tech classes and some special ed classes. All the districts sort of need to be on the same schedule or there will be times when your district is in session and BOCES is not. What do you do with your students that go to BOCES for services?
Regardless, we agree that it was a good decision, I just think the Board comes off sounding like aholes.
posted by 724A at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2014
For many many practical reasons, I think the decision to not change the practice of giving off during certain religions holidays makes sense. I am an atheist and I could care less if you call it Christmas break or end of term break of winter break. I know that productivity at work that week will be close to nil, that the football games are on tv, etc.
And, as I said, there are certain scheduling limitations that sort of dictate a lot of it. One, I failed to mention is that in NY all districts belong to a BOCES. Because the districts are smaller they pool resources for a lot of career tech classes and some special ed classes. All the districts sort of need to be on the same schedule or there will be times when your district is in session and BOCES is not. What do you do with your students that go to BOCES for services?
Regardless, we agree that it was a good decision, I just think the Board comes off sounding like aholes.
posted by 724A at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2014
Christmas may have a Christian name, but it was a holiday long before Christians came along and put their stamp on it. Same deal with Easter,m except it doesn't even have a Christian name. They're pagan holidays that are celebrated as secular holidays by non-Christians (and even some Christians).
That said, "Winter Break" and "Spring Break" are better for a school calendar.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:21 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
That said, "Winter Break" and "Spring Break" are better for a school calendar.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:21 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Those are two seriously debauched-looking kittehs.
It was a "go home, you're drunk, kittehs" kind of day.
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:24 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
It was a "go home, you're drunk, kittehs" kind of day.
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:24 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I find this Ribbon holiday quite intriguing and I would like a copy of your brochure.
I think the description was, "if they've been good little kitties they get lots of bright shiny ribbon to play with, but if they've been bad little kitties they get tape stuck to the bottom of their paws."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:35 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think the description was, "if they've been good little kitties they get lots of bright shiny ribbon to play with, but if they've been bad little kitties they get tape stuck to the bottom of their paws."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:35 PM on November 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
And just like that, 'senior ditch day' became a holiday in Maryland.
We call it beach week and it is a most sacred time involving a holy pilgrimage to the City of Oceans please do not ridicule it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:07 PM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
We call it beach week and it is a most sacred time involving a holy pilgrimage to the City of Oceans please do not ridicule it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:07 PM on November 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
And just like that, 'senior ditch day' became a holiday in Maryland.
We actually had an officially sanctioned senior ditch day at my high school. There was even a water park activity. Of course, I ditched.
posted by weston at 11:15 PM on November 13, 2014
We actually had an officially sanctioned senior ditch day at my high school. There was even a water park activity. Of course, I ditched.
posted by weston at 11:15 PM on November 13, 2014
Board members pointed to the Fairfax County school system’s calendar as an example; the largest school district in Virginia does not call out such religious holidays by name.
I'm a product of the Fairfax County Public School system, in Virginia just south over the Potomac River from Montgomery County. Its demographics are similarly diverse, affluent, and secular. Their official calendar includes the observed birthday of Martin Luther King Jr., which is an improvement. When I went to school there, we observed Lee-Jackson-King Day.
posted by peeedro at 11:33 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm a product of the Fairfax County Public School system, in Virginia just south over the Potomac River from Montgomery County. Its demographics are similarly diverse, affluent, and secular. Their official calendar includes the observed birthday of Martin Luther King Jr., which is an improvement. When I went to school there, we observed Lee-Jackson-King Day.
posted by peeedro at 11:33 PM on November 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
What do parents in the US do when their child's school is closed for a holiday? If I understand correctly, most people in the US do not have many vacation days at all, so I'm surprised to learn that schools close at holidays when people are still expected to work (like in the examples that people gave about schools that close when absenteeism is expected to be high).
posted by blub at 12:52 AM on November 14, 2014
posted by blub at 12:52 AM on November 14, 2014
The community where I work is one of the most diverse in all of Canada and yet we make it work by practising a faith forward inclusiveness. Here is the Calendar we use to plan meetings and programmes. As an atheist, it is easy to acknowledge what is important in other people's lives without being accidentally hurtful (like having a potluck during Ramadan).
posted by saucysault at 3:31 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by saucysault at 3:31 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
That Bethesda Magazine article is sort of irking me: "An attorney for the school system said the courts use a “lemon test” to determine if schools are favoring one religion over another to make sure they’re not violating the first amendment. The test enables districts to make school closing decisions based on concerns about resources used on days when there is high absenteeism—such as the Jewish holidays in Montgomery—but that schools can’t 'foster excessive entanglement with religion.'" It partly defines the Lemon Test without actually explaining what it is or where it comes from, and it comes off as "the lawyer said something or other about lemons, and I'm quoting him, so...? " I get the impression that the author not only doesn't know what it is, but also couldn't be bothered to look it up and find out.
posted by naoko at 8:17 AM on November 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by naoko at 8:17 AM on November 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
What do parents in the US do when their child's school is closed for a holiday? If I understand correctly, most people in the US do not have many vacation days at all, so I'm surprised to learn that schools close at holidays when people are still expected to work (like in the examples that people gave about schools that close when absenteeism is expected to be high).
Well, "not very many" isn't the same as "zero." Some parents probably manage to take personal time on these days; others simply have to make childcare arrangements as best they can. In my own case, as soon as I turned, like, 8, it was just understood that if we had a snow day and my folks didn't, I just stayed home alone.
If it's a holiday you know about in advance, at least you can plan for it. Illness and weather-based closures are a serious problem for exactly this reason--impromptu need for childcare, sometimes for a very long time.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:29 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Well, "not very many" isn't the same as "zero." Some parents probably manage to take personal time on these days; others simply have to make childcare arrangements as best they can. In my own case, as soon as I turned, like, 8, it was just understood that if we had a snow day and my folks didn't, I just stayed home alone.
If it's a holiday you know about in advance, at least you can plan for it. Illness and weather-based closures are a serious problem for exactly this reason--impromptu need for childcare, sometimes for a very long time.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:29 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
The reason the decision got under my skin is that Mislim parents were simply asking for the words "Eid al-Adha" to be added to next year's calendar. They weren't asking for school to be closed--school would already be closed for Yom Kippur. They just wanted their holiday to be mentioned. I strongly disagree that the job of public schools is to keep religion out--the job of public schools is to avoid endorsing one religion/denomination over another, but children should learn about religion in school. They should know what Eid al-Adha is. The job of the school district isn't to erase these differences, it's to highlight and celebrate them.
posted by epj at 8:39 AM on November 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by epj at 8:39 AM on November 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
What do parents in the US do when their child's school is closed for a holiday?
In a lot of places, government parks and recreation departments, before/aftercare programs, and private providers of children's activities (karate studios, gymnastics gyms, etc.)--basically the same organizations that are providing children's activities during the summer vacation period--offer 1-day programs on days when school is closed.
posted by drlith at 8:42 AM on November 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
In a lot of places, government parks and recreation departments, before/aftercare programs, and private providers of children's activities (karate studios, gymnastics gyms, etc.)--basically the same organizations that are providing children's activities during the summer vacation period--offer 1-day programs on days when school is closed.
posted by drlith at 8:42 AM on November 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
What do parents in the US do when their child's school is closed for a holiday? If I understand correctly, most people in the US do not have many vacation days at all, so I'm surprised to learn that schools close at holidays when people are still expected to work (like in the examples that people gave about schools that close when absenteeism is expected to be high).
It really depends on the holiday, the job itself, and the age of the child.
Actually, here's a "holiday policy in the USA" tutorial first: the number of vacation days a worker gets is completely up to the discretion of their employer. Some tie it to how long you've been employed; some tie it to whether you work full- or part-time; there's a lot of different approaches. However, some companies also allow their workers a certain number of what are called "personal days", where it's not a holiday or a vacation but it's still a day where you have to be out of the office because you have some kind of life event you need to take care of (something like, your parent is getting out of the hospital after some kind of surgery and needs you to collect her at the hospital, drive her home and settle her in). People are also allowed a certain number of "sick days" for when they are ill themselves (you have a stomach virus and can't be in work that day).
So in the case of a school being closed - if it's a major holiday, some parents are most likely going to want to be off work themselves as well anyway, so if it's something like Thanksgiving or Christmas, the parents may have already signed on to use a couple of their vacation days for celebrating Christmas as it is. But if it's a smaller holiday, sometimes the parents will either try to find day care for their kids, or if they're not able to, they'll use either one of their personal days or their sick days to stay home with the kids. Or if the kids are old enough, they're home alone. (Although, leaving the kids home alone was probably more common when I was a kid than it is now.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:50 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
It really depends on the holiday, the job itself, and the age of the child.
Actually, here's a "holiday policy in the USA" tutorial first: the number of vacation days a worker gets is completely up to the discretion of their employer. Some tie it to how long you've been employed; some tie it to whether you work full- or part-time; there's a lot of different approaches. However, some companies also allow their workers a certain number of what are called "personal days", where it's not a holiday or a vacation but it's still a day where you have to be out of the office because you have some kind of life event you need to take care of (something like, your parent is getting out of the hospital after some kind of surgery and needs you to collect her at the hospital, drive her home and settle her in). People are also allowed a certain number of "sick days" for when they are ill themselves (you have a stomach virus and can't be in work that day).
So in the case of a school being closed - if it's a major holiday, some parents are most likely going to want to be off work themselves as well anyway, so if it's something like Thanksgiving or Christmas, the parents may have already signed on to use a couple of their vacation days for celebrating Christmas as it is. But if it's a smaller holiday, sometimes the parents will either try to find day care for their kids, or if they're not able to, they'll use either one of their personal days or their sick days to stay home with the kids. Or if the kids are old enough, they're home alone. (Although, leaving the kids home alone was probably more common when I was a kid than it is now.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:50 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
The job of the school district isn't to erase these differences, it's to highlight and celebrate them.
This is an excellent point, and a disagreement with the school board's decision with some substance. As a citizen, I could agree with this perspective; as a teacher, I do not, for purely pragmatic reasons: We have reached a point with public, secular education in the U.S. where our system is simply crumbling from the sustained attacks on teachers, political maneuvering by for-profit advocates, under- or non-funding for even the most basic facilities needs, low pay, etc., that things are not really working any more. Schools simply cannot fulfill even their basic educational duties at this point, yet are continually called upon to solve many of our social problems.
They cannot fix everything and I do not blame this district at all for opting out of this set of issues. How many hours did this school board spend on this particular issue? You may think the solution is as simple as "just add the holiday to the calendar, it changes nothing" except that, in Montgomery County, Muslims are 1% of the population. As soon as their holiday is added to the calendar, the 1% of Mormons, Buddhists, and Hindus in the county may petition to add theirs. And so it goes. Soon, the school board is spending consistently large amounts of time and energy on issues and social concerns that really have nothing to do with their core mission, which is fostering the intellectual development and learning of kids.
As someone who participates in the training of teachers, I visit many school sites and of course know dozens and dozens of people in all parts of the field, so my sample size on this is reasonably large. I have seen an alarming number of my own students spend 5-8 years earning the education, training, and professional certifications needed to be a public school teacher (4-5 years for Bachelor's degree; 1 year of post-graduate credential courses/training; 3 years on-the-job continuing education, evaluation, and final certification by the state--these are all minimum requirements for that whopping $40-50K/year, and don't include the extensive on-site observation and evaluation, district-level continuing education requirements, and so forth) and then, after fewer than five years on the job, quit and leave the field completely because the job sucks so bad and their ability to change things is nearly zero, plus the pay is mediocre to lousy. Truly, it's to the point where, if half of my former students with education degrees are actually teaching five years after graduation, I'm pleasantly surprised at the retention rate. HALF. And when I ask them why they left, the answer is never about teaching itself or their students; most of them still love teaching, they just can't stand the profession. This did not happen 15 or even 10 years ago.
Schools can't fix everything, and the more pressure that is put on them to be the battlegrounds for and solutions to our myriad social problems, the more broken they will become. Why does the community itself not take responsibility if they believe there is a social problem of, e.g., religious tolerance? Local mosques are free to reach out to local churches to create and sponsor education and awareness programs, or social events, or whatever. Why must it be the schools? I think this particular school board is smart to opt-out, and that's a purely pragmatic point of view. (Which I kind of hate that I have, because when it comes to kids and education, I am a life-long optimist and idealist.)
posted by LooseFilter at 9:13 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is an excellent point, and a disagreement with the school board's decision with some substance. As a citizen, I could agree with this perspective; as a teacher, I do not, for purely pragmatic reasons: We have reached a point with public, secular education in the U.S. where our system is simply crumbling from the sustained attacks on teachers, political maneuvering by for-profit advocates, under- or non-funding for even the most basic facilities needs, low pay, etc., that things are not really working any more. Schools simply cannot fulfill even their basic educational duties at this point, yet are continually called upon to solve many of our social problems.
They cannot fix everything and I do not blame this district at all for opting out of this set of issues. How many hours did this school board spend on this particular issue? You may think the solution is as simple as "just add the holiday to the calendar, it changes nothing" except that, in Montgomery County, Muslims are 1% of the population. As soon as their holiday is added to the calendar, the 1% of Mormons, Buddhists, and Hindus in the county may petition to add theirs. And so it goes. Soon, the school board is spending consistently large amounts of time and energy on issues and social concerns that really have nothing to do with their core mission, which is fostering the intellectual development and learning of kids.
As someone who participates in the training of teachers, I visit many school sites and of course know dozens and dozens of people in all parts of the field, so my sample size on this is reasonably large. I have seen an alarming number of my own students spend 5-8 years earning the education, training, and professional certifications needed to be a public school teacher (4-5 years for Bachelor's degree; 1 year of post-graduate credential courses/training; 3 years on-the-job continuing education, evaluation, and final certification by the state--these are all minimum requirements for that whopping $40-50K/year, and don't include the extensive on-site observation and evaluation, district-level continuing education requirements, and so forth) and then, after fewer than five years on the job, quit and leave the field completely because the job sucks so bad and their ability to change things is nearly zero, plus the pay is mediocre to lousy. Truly, it's to the point where, if half of my former students with education degrees are actually teaching five years after graduation, I'm pleasantly surprised at the retention rate. HALF. And when I ask them why they left, the answer is never about teaching itself or their students; most of them still love teaching, they just can't stand the profession. This did not happen 15 or even 10 years ago.
Schools can't fix everything, and the more pressure that is put on them to be the battlegrounds for and solutions to our myriad social problems, the more broken they will become. Why does the community itself not take responsibility if they believe there is a social problem of, e.g., religious tolerance? Local mosques are free to reach out to local churches to create and sponsor education and awareness programs, or social events, or whatever. Why must it be the schools? I think this particular school board is smart to opt-out, and that's a purely pragmatic point of view. (Which I kind of hate that I have, because when it comes to kids and education, I am a life-long optimist and idealist.)
posted by LooseFilter at 9:13 AM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
However, some companies also allow their workers a certain number of what are called "personal days", where it's not a holiday or a vacation but it's still a day where you have to be out of the office because you have some kind of life event you need to take care of...
Also, most of the companies I've worked for allow parents to take unpaid days for emergency child care even if they've run out of accumulated paid time off. I'm well aware that a lot of employers don't do this, but it's always been my experience.
(As a childless person, I'm the person who's held responsible for anything that needs to get done on those days, or for covering parents' phones, etc.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:36 PM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, most of the companies I've worked for allow parents to take unpaid days for emergency child care even if they've run out of accumulated paid time off. I'm well aware that a lot of employers don't do this, but it's always been my experience.
(As a childless person, I'm the person who's held responsible for anything that needs to get done on those days, or for covering parents' phones, etc.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:36 PM on November 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Though this thread is dead, wanted to share this link here, from a principal who lays it out better than I have here, detailing all the things teachers actually have to do. Why add community-social-tension-arbitration to the mix?
posted by LooseFilter at 9:25 AM on November 16, 2014
posted by LooseFilter at 9:25 AM on November 16, 2014
Has it occurred to you that the reason that there is a Christmas is because of winter break in the first place?
Do be pedantic about it, the date of Christmas was probably based on relating the date for the Annunciation (when Jesus was conceived) to the dates of Easter (which is based on the dates for Passover), but the reason Christians developed the practice of making Christmas a bigger celebration than, say Easter or Pentecost, is probably related to existing celebrations of the winter solstice.
Which is to say that, yeah, the Phenomenon of Christmas is probably because of the winter break rather than vice versa.
posted by straight at 9:22 AM on November 17, 2014
Do be pedantic about it, the date of Christmas was probably based on relating the date for the Annunciation (when Jesus was conceived) to the dates of Easter (which is based on the dates for Passover), but the reason Christians developed the practice of making Christmas a bigger celebration than, say Easter or Pentecost, is probably related to existing celebrations of the winter solstice.
Which is to say that, yeah, the Phenomenon of Christmas is probably because of the winter break rather than vice versa.
posted by straight at 9:22 AM on November 17, 2014
Which is to say that, yeah, the Phenomenon of Christmas is probably because of the winter break rather than vice versa.
....That's as may be, but I"m confining myself to "why do schools schedule a break in winter".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:27 AM on November 17, 2014
....That's as may be, but I"m confining myself to "why do schools schedule a break in winter".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:27 AM on November 17, 2014
« Older Looking at Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" series. | Structural color: why you can't make blue powder... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Thaaaaaat is because it is.
To me, this whole ordeal seems as though Montgomery County went, "Well, we sure as hell can't give you the equal billing to your non-Christian holidays, so we just give up. Look, now you ruined it all, thanks MUSLIMS."
posted by ourt at 9:36 AM on November 13, 2014 [49 favorites]