I was a Greek neo-fascist
November 28, 2014 1:11 AM Subscribe
That journalist is a brave man. These maniacs sound inordinately powerful.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:03 AM on November 28, 2014
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:03 AM on November 28, 2014
That was a really interesting article. I've seen the headlines about the continued prominence of Golden Dawn, but hadn't known much about them other than just that they are Greek neo-fascists.
The Dawn’s role as a social movement is often passed over in press accounts, but historically it’s typical of any fascist party infrastructure. The party provides bodyguards to pensioners going to cashpoints. There are blood-donor drives for ethnic Greeks. It gives prescriptions and medical aid to the homeless. Dawners assault employers who hire immigrants in preference to Greeks. In a country with ineffective – or vanishing – public services, these measures are important enough to make many Dawn voters look past the party’s veneration of Hitler.
A weak state (or in Greece a gutted state) leaves a lot of openings for alternate power arrangements, and they are taking full advantage of the vacuum. Reading between the lines, it also sounds like the party probably has quite a bit of tacit support from within the state -- otherwise there is no way you could get away with such open and continued violence, for example. That takes a lot of bureaucrats in the police and judiciary to turn a blind eye, and for there not to be a strong push from above to clamp down on this. Quite a few Golden Dawn leaders are in or are headed to prison, but without it impacting their ability to lead the organization and definitely without it hurting their credibility.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
The Dawn’s role as a social movement is often passed over in press accounts, but historically it’s typical of any fascist party infrastructure. The party provides bodyguards to pensioners going to cashpoints. There are blood-donor drives for ethnic Greeks. It gives prescriptions and medical aid to the homeless. Dawners assault employers who hire immigrants in preference to Greeks. In a country with ineffective – or vanishing – public services, these measures are important enough to make many Dawn voters look past the party’s veneration of Hitler.
A weak state (or in Greece a gutted state) leaves a lot of openings for alternate power arrangements, and they are taking full advantage of the vacuum. Reading between the lines, it also sounds like the party probably has quite a bit of tacit support from within the state -- otherwise there is no way you could get away with such open and continued violence, for example. That takes a lot of bureaucrats in the police and judiciary to turn a blind eye, and for there not to be a strong push from above to clamp down on this. Quite a few Golden Dawn leaders are in or are headed to prison, but without it impacting their ability to lead the organization and definitely without it hurting their credibility.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Really terrifying.
Party violence is rarely random. Dawn texting groups and Facebook threads are used to home in on three or four immigrants. A Bangladeshi barber I met in Metaxourgeio said that Dawners mimic the Greek police: they roll up in pairs on white motorcycles, helmeted and decked out in black armour. The party doesn’t go after the illegals in immigrant neighbourhoods; it targets those who have strayed into middle and upper-class areas, where the residents are less welcoming. Dawners generally don’t kill. They break a few limbs in lightning-quick strikes.
posted by cacofonie at 9:01 AM on November 28, 2014
Party violence is rarely random. Dawn texting groups and Facebook threads are used to home in on three or four immigrants. A Bangladeshi barber I met in Metaxourgeio said that Dawners mimic the Greek police: they roll up in pairs on white motorcycles, helmeted and decked out in black armour. The party doesn’t go after the illegals in immigrant neighbourhoods; it targets those who have strayed into middle and upper-class areas, where the residents are less welcoming. Dawners generally don’t kill. They break a few limbs in lightning-quick strikes.
posted by cacofonie at 9:01 AM on November 28, 2014
Like DipFlash said, a gutted government leaves a lot of openings. I wonder what the Tea Party sees when it looks at Golden Dawn.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:11 AM on November 28, 2014
posted by benito.strauss at 9:11 AM on November 28, 2014
The Tea Party would never do things like provide social services for the needy, even if they thought there might be political gain to be had. Their entire ideology is based around "I got mine, fuck you."
That's not to say that a nationalist party couldn't be successful in this country using the same tactics as Golden Dawn or Hamas.
posted by briank at 9:45 AM on November 28, 2014
That's not to say that a nationalist party couldn't be successful in this country using the same tactics as Golden Dawn or Hamas.
posted by briank at 9:45 AM on November 28, 2014
Dip Flash: "Reading between the lines, it also sounds like the party probably has quite a bit of tacit support from within the state"From the article:
The old guard of the Junta remains well-entrenched in the Greek deep state; in part, this explains how Dawn has been able to indulge its habit of street violence.posted by brokkr at 10:02 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
The prominence of Golden Dawn is complicated by the fact of Russia's support and financing of right-wing groups and parties in Europe. They see common religious and cultural values between them and Russia's nationalist right-wing. Earlier this year, Golden Dawn members met with the outspoken right-wing Russian philosopher and political scientist Alexander Dugin, and discussed building "a Europe of Nations and culture against the usurers and the decadent."
posted by Kabanos at 11:01 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 11:01 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just a year ago: Yiannis Mavris: We are living in a mock parliamentary democracy; and Athens Marathon brings back memories of deep state politics in Greece
posted by adamvasco at 11:17 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 11:17 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
The Tea Party would never do things like provide social services for the needy, even if they thought there might be political gain to be had. Their entire ideology is based around "I got mine, fuck you."
I don't know, a lot of Tea Party adjacent folks I know are attracted by two very similar ideas.
Firstly, they really like the idea of taking back government services and institutions and shifting for themselves. Yes, of course this amounts to "I Got Mine, Fuck You", but there are various factors of "mine". "Me" can also equal "Us", and "Us" doesn't always extend to all of humanity.
Secondly, they really like the idea that a lot of government infrastructure would be better handed by private charities. I can totally see a right wing fascist leaning nonprofit handling certain social services, and fellow travelers seeing that as entirely right and good.
Most American Tea Party ideas reduce quite neatly to either 19th century machine politics or feudalism, depending on the issue in question. That fits right in with what the Golden Dawn in Greece has been doing.
posted by Sara C. at 4:16 PM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
I don't know, a lot of Tea Party adjacent folks I know are attracted by two very similar ideas.
Firstly, they really like the idea of taking back government services and institutions and shifting for themselves. Yes, of course this amounts to "I Got Mine, Fuck You", but there are various factors of "mine". "Me" can also equal "Us", and "Us" doesn't always extend to all of humanity.
Secondly, they really like the idea that a lot of government infrastructure would be better handed by private charities. I can totally see a right wing fascist leaning nonprofit handling certain social services, and fellow travelers seeing that as entirely right and good.
Most American Tea Party ideas reduce quite neatly to either 19th century machine politics or feudalism, depending on the issue in question. That fits right in with what the Golden Dawn in Greece has been doing.
posted by Sara C. at 4:16 PM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
Golden Dawn has also been in contact with the American far right.
posted by adamvasco at 4:30 PM on November 28, 2014
posted by adamvasco at 4:30 PM on November 28, 2014
I hope that those of you who are lulzing out about comparing Golden Dawn to the Tea Party never meet up with an actual Golden Dawn member.
posted by Etrigan at 4:45 PM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:45 PM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
I've met their MEPs. Please don't compare them to the Tea Party, try the SS instead. In a world where terms like nazi, fascist has been hurled at just about everybody, these guys are the real thing. They also, with their kin, are financed by a foreign power.
posted by quarsan at 9:54 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by quarsan at 9:54 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
On Monday Germany’s mass-circulation Bild newspaper published sections of a paper put out by the Moscow-based think-tank Centre for Strategic Communications entitled “Putin: the new leader of international conservatism”. The paper spelled out how the Russian President could influence EU countries including Germany – the country’s pivotal European trading partner.
After the European May Elections
these are The Far-Right Groups who now have MEP's.
A report published by the Budapest-based Political Capital Institute in March, called "The Russian Connection: The Spread of Pro-Russian Policies on the European Far Right," (pdf)
notes that Moscow has shown an interest in Eastern European right-wing parties for several years now.
All of this is much more creditable than the old ''Reds under the Bed'' scares. Russia gains from a destabilised Europe. The how and the why is not so important to them.
And I agree the Tea Party is absolutely nothing like the Neo Nazi stormtroopers of Golden Dawn see previously and also.
posted by adamvasco at 6:09 AM on November 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
After the European May Elections
these are The Far-Right Groups who now have MEP's.
A report published by the Budapest-based Political Capital Institute in March, called "The Russian Connection: The Spread of Pro-Russian Policies on the European Far Right," (pdf)
notes that Moscow has shown an interest in Eastern European right-wing parties for several years now.
All of this is much more creditable than the old ''Reds under the Bed'' scares. Russia gains from a destabilised Europe. The how and the why is not so important to them.
And I agree the Tea Party is absolutely nothing like the Neo Nazi stormtroopers of Golden Dawn see previously and also.
posted by adamvasco at 6:09 AM on November 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
Could Greece be on the verge of a new social explosion.
posted by adamvasco at 3:06 AM on December 6, 2014
posted by adamvasco at 3:06 AM on December 6, 2014
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posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:02 AM on November 28, 2014