Digesting polyethylene
November 28, 2014 8:41 AM Subscribe
Some waxworms (abstract) are the first animal discovered to eat polyethylene, the world's most common plastic. The waxworms - larvae of the Indian meal moth - have not one, but two different gut bacteria capable of digesting the persistent plastic.
Oh, hell. This just means they're gonna make even more polyethylene.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 8:57 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 8:57 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
Mr. McGuire: I just want to say two words to you - just two words.
Ben: Yes sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Ben: Yes I am.
Mr. McGuire: 'Gut bacteria'.
posted by hanoixan at 8:59 AM on November 28, 2014 [41 favorites]
Ben: Yes sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Ben: Yes I am.
Mr. McGuire: 'Gut bacteria'.
posted by hanoixan at 8:59 AM on November 28, 2014 [41 favorites]
This paper was obvious written by some Graduate student.
posted by Kabanos at 9:00 AM on November 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 9:00 AM on November 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
dammit hanoixan!
posted by Kabanos at 9:00 AM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 9:00 AM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
I feel like the end result of this is gonna be, like, "The skies have been black with mealmoths for a hundred years. No food remains but their fallen bodies. No plastic tho!"
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:10 AM on November 28, 2014 [36 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:10 AM on November 28, 2014 [36 favorites]
I remember this turns out badly in this novel....
posted by Chrysostom at 9:14 AM on November 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:14 AM on November 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
(Possibly actually un-doomy with useful implications?)
posted by Artw at 9:16 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:16 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
This was a civilization-ending event in the Ringworld novels if I remember correctly.
Provide a bountiful enough energy source and some kind of life will find a way to exploit it. We dump so much PE into the environment that it was only a matter of time before something found a way to exploit it, although from the description the bacteria don't seem to be very good at it. Yet.
posted by 1adam12 at 9:22 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
Provide a bountiful enough energy source and some kind of life will find a way to exploit it. We dump so much PE into the environment that it was only a matter of time before something found a way to exploit it, although from the description the bacteria don't seem to be very good at it. Yet.
posted by 1adam12 at 9:22 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
This was a civilization-ending event in the Ringworld novels if I remember correctly.
I think in that case it was a bacterium that ate a room-temperature superconductor, but the same basic idea of a bacteria consuming an artificial substance that had become essential to civilization.
posted by jedicus at 9:27 AM on November 28, 2014
I think in that case it was a bacterium that ate a room-temperature superconductor, but the same basic idea of a bacteria consuming an artificial substance that had become essential to civilization.
posted by jedicus at 9:27 AM on November 28, 2014
There's whole industries built around manipulating bacteria and enzymes etc. I can see this being reproduced in quantity and sold as digesters...just one thing, though...What is the byproduct?
posted by Gungho at 9:36 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Gungho at 9:36 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
What is the byproduct?
Microscopic shopping bags.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:48 AM on November 28, 2014 [45 favorites]
Microscopic shopping bags.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:48 AM on November 28, 2014 [45 favorites]
What is the byproduct?
We're raising genetically engineered snakes to eat the waxworms, and importing orangutans to hunt the snakes. Then the orangs will freeze to death in winter...
We wouldn't be needing to talk about these waxworms if humans were good at thinking more than two steps ahead and/or more than five years in advance.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:53 AM on November 28, 2014 [20 favorites]
We're raising genetically engineered snakes to eat the waxworms, and importing orangutans to hunt the snakes. Then the orangs will freeze to death in winter...
We wouldn't be needing to talk about these waxworms if humans were good at thinking more than two steps ahead and/or more than five years in advance.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:53 AM on November 28, 2014 [20 favorites]
bacterium that ate a room-temperature superconductor,
OK I remember now. It was an aside from the beginning of Ringworld, where the protagonist recalls PE-eating bacteria evolving and plastic containers disintegrating on supermarket shelves. Can you imagine what would happen to our food and fuel supply chains if PE became unreliable, as opposed to the (basically) permanent chemical-resistent substance we assume it is now? How many new homes have PEX tubing for their domestic plumbing instead of copper or brass? Can you imagine having to call the plumber because your pipes rotted?
posted by 1adam12 at 10:03 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
OK I remember now. It was an aside from the beginning of Ringworld, where the protagonist recalls PE-eating bacteria evolving and plastic containers disintegrating on supermarket shelves. Can you imagine what would happen to our food and fuel supply chains if PE became unreliable, as opposed to the (basically) permanent chemical-resistent substance we assume it is now? How many new homes have PEX tubing for their domestic plumbing instead of copper or brass? Can you imagine having to call the plumber because your pipes rotted?
posted by 1adam12 at 10:03 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Can you imagine having to call the plumber because your pipes rotted?
You've never had to deal with old plumbing have you? Because that's more of an inevitably than a can you imagine...
posted by aspo at 10:15 AM on November 28, 2014 [16 favorites]
You've never had to deal with old plumbing have you? Because that's more of an inevitably than a can you imagine...
posted by aspo at 10:15 AM on November 28, 2014 [16 favorites]
The byproduct is worm poop, obviously.
("...the release of 12 water-soluble daughter products was also detected...". So whatever it is, yes, it could get into groundwater. Will it cause a problem there? No idea. In its current environment, though, it probably just gives the meal moth larvae a little extra boost when they chew through plastic bags and containers in your pantry to get at the food they're really interested in.)
As for apocalyptic scenarios: Lignin has been digestible for 290 million years, but wood remains a useful and durable material despite that.
posted by clawsoon at 10:16 AM on November 28, 2014 [21 favorites]
("...the release of 12 water-soluble daughter products was also detected...". So whatever it is, yes, it could get into groundwater. Will it cause a problem there? No idea. In its current environment, though, it probably just gives the meal moth larvae a little extra boost when they chew through plastic bags and containers in your pantry to get at the food they're really interested in.)
As for apocalyptic scenarios: Lignin has been digestible for 290 million years, but wood remains a useful and durable material despite that.
posted by clawsoon at 10:16 AM on November 28, 2014 [21 favorites]
Knowing how blastedly difficult it is to control clothes moths, this has a whole heap of amusing possibilities. Imagine an infestation in the avionics of large jets, or the control systems of nuclear power stations.
But if we could get the appropriate DNA into free-swimming marine bacteria, what then? Would it clean up the oceans, or lead to some as-yet unimagined convulsion in the ecosystem? Given the bacterial propensity for swapping chunks of genome willy-nilly, I guess that if the moths - or, as mentioned above, digesters - get pressed into service in a big way, we'll find out sooner or later.
The more I think about it, our current wayward habits aren't really wiping life off the face of the planet so much as cleaning the slate ready for some new paroxysm of evolution. It's a cracking experiment, where the potential for collateral damage to us apex predators is engagingly high. There's a really good SF novel in this, which alas I am not competent to produce, but if ever there was an excuse for locking myself in a hotel room with a bucket of speed and a typewriter...
posted by Devonian at 10:16 AM on November 28, 2014 [8 favorites]
But if we could get the appropriate DNA into free-swimming marine bacteria, what then? Would it clean up the oceans, or lead to some as-yet unimagined convulsion in the ecosystem? Given the bacterial propensity for swapping chunks of genome willy-nilly, I guess that if the moths - or, as mentioned above, digesters - get pressed into service in a big way, we'll find out sooner or later.
The more I think about it, our current wayward habits aren't really wiping life off the face of the planet so much as cleaning the slate ready for some new paroxysm of evolution. It's a cracking experiment, where the potential for collateral damage to us apex predators is engagingly high. There's a really good SF novel in this, which alas I am not competent to produce, but if ever there was an excuse for locking myself in a hotel room with a bucket of speed and a typewriter...
posted by Devonian at 10:16 AM on November 28, 2014 [8 favorites]
Why say that the worm is digesting polyethelene, when it is clearly a microorganism that is doing it and the worm is merely the host? There is some pro-multicellular bias at work here.
posted by overhauser at 10:21 AM on November 28, 2014 [33 favorites]
posted by overhauser at 10:21 AM on November 28, 2014 [33 favorites]
the first animal discovered to eat polyethylene
Many, many, many other animals regularly eat polyethylene, usually resulting in their eventual death. This is just the first found to successfully digest it.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:23 AM on November 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
Many, many, many other animals regularly eat polyethylene, usually resulting in their eventual death. This is just the first found to successfully digest it.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:23 AM on November 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
Metafilter: pro-multicellular bias at work
posted by localroger at 10:25 AM on November 28, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by localroger at 10:25 AM on November 28, 2014 [10 favorites]
hal_c_on: "Is it something which is less biodegradeable? Is it toxic? Can it pollute soil and groundwater?
Just because I can eat McDonald's, doesn't mean that something better comes out as a byproduct of my digestion. Aesthetically, nutritionally, and visually, it looks about the same...and I'm guessing that's how it is with these worms and plastic.
"
I'm no biologist, but the answer should be "energy" and "waste", right? Are people asking if the waste is biodegradable? I feel a bit swimmy with this line of thinking.
posted by boo_radley at 10:26 AM on November 28, 2014
Just because I can eat McDonald's, doesn't mean that something better comes out as a byproduct of my digestion. Aesthetically, nutritionally, and visually, it looks about the same...and I'm guessing that's how it is with these worms and plastic.
"
I'm no biologist, but the answer should be "energy" and "waste", right? Are people asking if the waste is biodegradable? I feel a bit swimmy with this line of thinking.
posted by boo_radley at 10:26 AM on November 28, 2014
I'm no biologist, but the answer should be "energy" and "waste", right? Are people asking if the waste is biodegradable? I feel a bit swimmy with this line of thinking.
The question is, what exactly does that waste consist of? Nothing is inherently "waste" - look at how animals exhale carbon dioxide as waste, which trees take in and produce 'waste' oxygen, which we gleefully inhale. It matters a lot if the 'waste' out of this critter is, I dunno, methane, or sulfuric acid, or warm cuddly puppies.
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:36 AM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
The question is, what exactly does that waste consist of? Nothing is inherently "waste" - look at how animals exhale carbon dioxide as waste, which trees take in and produce 'waste' oxygen, which we gleefully inhale. It matters a lot if the 'waste' out of this critter is, I dunno, methane, or sulfuric acid, or warm cuddly puppies.
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:36 AM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
ah, I see. My assumption was that waxworm deuces would just be easier to deal with environmentally than the plastic they're consuming.
posted by boo_radley at 10:37 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by boo_radley at 10:37 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
What is the byproduct?
Delicious bug butter.
posted by sukeban at 10:41 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
Delicious bug butter.
posted by sukeban at 10:41 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
I took a look at the paper. The byproducts of the bacterial digestion of the PE seem to be various small and medium sized hydrocarbons and organic compounds made of hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen. The exact chemical structures of the molecules weren't obtainable from the method they used (just the relative amounts of each atom, so there are several possible structures for each detected compound.) So we don't know for sure yet what the waste products are (and how toxic/otherwise nasty they might be), but you can make some educated guesses from the data. They did not analyze the worm poop.
If anyone wants a copy of the article, Memail me.
posted by quaking fajita at 10:53 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
If anyone wants a copy of the article, Memail me.
posted by quaking fajita at 10:53 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
What is the byproduct?
Alcohol. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by The Bellman at 10:57 AM on November 28, 2014
Alcohol. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by The Bellman at 10:57 AM on November 28, 2014
As I understand it, unless they also discover a worm that can spin out PE, this material is still a product of industrial fossil fuel refinement.
posted by polymodus at 11:29 AM on November 28, 2014
posted by polymodus at 11:29 AM on November 28, 2014
I'm no biologist, but the answer should be "energy" and "waste", right? Are people asking if the waste is biodegradable? I feel a bit swimmy with this line of thinking.
I'm not a biologist either, but my prediction as an internet science expert is that some clever food chemist, like some kind of 21st century Rapunzel, will concoct a formula that replaces the HFCS that pollute just about every processed foodstuff stocked on our grocer's shelves.
Anticipate marketing similar to the Today's urine, tomorrow's Tang from the space-age 1960's - except with an 'earth patriotic' imperative. Anticipate also a sudden tsunami of 'viral' videos where infants and tots present the abilities of Stretch Armstrong.
All fun and laughs until the other, more sinister, effects manifest themselves...
Thank you 1950's Hollywood and Japanese filmmakers for all of the films I consumed as a child that suggested the unanticipated effects of nuke-radiation might produce enormous and seemingly unstoppable ravenous insects/reptiles/flying monsters - they sure took the edge off the constant and palpable threat of instant and unannounced nuclear annihilation.
posted by Pudhoho at 11:35 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm not a biologist either, but my prediction as an internet science expert is that some clever food chemist, like some kind of 21st century Rapunzel, will concoct a formula that replaces the HFCS that pollute just about every processed foodstuff stocked on our grocer's shelves.
Anticipate marketing similar to the Today's urine, tomorrow's Tang from the space-age 1960's - except with an 'earth patriotic' imperative. Anticipate also a sudden tsunami of 'viral' videos where infants and tots present the abilities of Stretch Armstrong.
All fun and laughs until the other, more sinister, effects manifest themselves...
Thank you 1950's Hollywood and Japanese filmmakers for all of the films I consumed as a child that suggested the unanticipated effects of nuke-radiation might produce enormous and seemingly unstoppable ravenous insects/reptiles/flying monsters - they sure took the edge off the constant and palpable threat of instant and unannounced nuclear annihilation.
posted by Pudhoho at 11:35 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Waxworm Deuces? Didn't they tour with the Butthole Surfers?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 11:41 AM on November 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Mister Moofoo at 11:41 AM on November 28, 2014 [5 favorites]
Thank you 1950's Hollywood and Japanese filmmakers for all of the films I consumed as a child that suggested the unanticipated effects of nuke-radiation might produce enormous and seemingly unstoppable ravenous insects/reptiles/flying monsters - they sure took the edge off the constant and palpable threat of instant and unannounced nuclear annihilation.
Well, atomic gardening (previously on AskMefi) was a real thing.
posted by clawsoon at 12:10 PM on November 28, 2014
Well, atomic gardening (previously on AskMefi) was a real thing.
posted by clawsoon at 12:10 PM on November 28, 2014
>Would it clean up the oceans, or lead to some as-yet unimagined convulsion in the ecosystem?
Polyethylene represents some kind of sequestration of fossil carbon. If that plastic is made bio-available, it's guaranteed that the carbon from the plastic will be sequestered in a less stable form (namely, the flesh and blood of the life that is utilizing the plastic for energy and matter).
For perspective, google says 80 million tons of polyethylene is manufactured a year, and you can be certain that some large percentage of all the polyethylene ever manufactured still exists as polyethylene. 80 million tons of polyethylene is the same amount of fossil carbon as 70 days of worth of gasoline used in the US.
Maybe it would clean up the oceans, and lead to some disturbance of the ecosystem. Right now I'm more worried about the starfish epidemic on the most productive portions of the Pacific Coast of the US.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:12 PM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
Polyethylene represents some kind of sequestration of fossil carbon. If that plastic is made bio-available, it's guaranteed that the carbon from the plastic will be sequestered in a less stable form (namely, the flesh and blood of the life that is utilizing the plastic for energy and matter).
For perspective, google says 80 million tons of polyethylene is manufactured a year, and you can be certain that some large percentage of all the polyethylene ever manufactured still exists as polyethylene. 80 million tons of polyethylene is the same amount of fossil carbon as 70 days of worth of gasoline used in the US.
Maybe it would clean up the oceans, and lead to some disturbance of the ecosystem. Right now I'm more worried about the starfish epidemic on the most productive portions of the Pacific Coast of the US.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:12 PM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
As these worms eat beeswax, their ability to eat polyethylene is not surprising. Polyethylene has been described to me as being something akin to a very high molecular weight wax.
posted by Glomar response at 12:13 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Glomar response at 12:13 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
waxworm deuces
I don't know about the environmental impact, but Waxworm Deuces is def the name of my new band.
posted by Sara C. at 12:29 PM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
I don't know about the environmental impact, but Waxworm Deuces is def the name of my new band.
posted by Sara C. at 12:29 PM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
showbiz_liz: "I feel like the end result of this is gonna be, like, "The skies have been black with mealmoths for a hundred years. No food remains but their fallen bodies. No plastic tho!""
I still have my money riding on the world being consumed by nanobots.
posted by double block and bleed at 12:44 PM on November 28, 2014
I still have my money riding on the world being consumed by nanobots.
posted by double block and bleed at 12:44 PM on November 28, 2014
Polyethylene represents some kind of sequestration of fossil carbon.
In theory, perhaps, but in practice a lot of it is used as fuel. I don't see biodegradation as hugely worse than that. As you point out, this will be huge if it helps to clean the rafts of pollution in the various ocean Gyres.
posted by bonehead at 12:45 PM on November 28, 2014
In theory, perhaps, but in practice a lot of it is used as fuel. I don't see biodegradation as hugely worse than that. As you point out, this will be huge if it helps to clean the rafts of pollution in the various ocean Gyres.
posted by bonehead at 12:45 PM on November 28, 2014
Ill Wind is the book I thought of when I heard about plastic-eating bugs. There's an oil spill and the oil company panics and drops microbes to eat petroleum. And they eat all the petroleum everywhere. Truth is as strange as (science) fiction.
posted by Beti at 2:11 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Beti at 2:11 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Maybe we could design a bacteria that would feed on oil company executives. I mean specifically, and more quickly than current bacteria....
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:17 PM on November 28, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:17 PM on November 28, 2014 [7 favorites]
Oleophages, oil-eating bacteria and other wee beasties, are found in near every ecosystem on earth already, including places like the high Arctic. They're the same set of species that break down plant and animal waxes, generally.
Oleo-execuphages, unfortunately, are not.
posted by bonehead at 2:20 PM on November 28, 2014 [7 favorites]
Oleo-execuphages, unfortunately, are not.
posted by bonehead at 2:20 PM on November 28, 2014 [7 favorites]
Is it possible to incorporate these bacteria into the gut flora of farm animals, and just feed our beef cows trash?
posted by kafziel at 2:30 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by kafziel at 2:30 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Only if the cattle somehow already like the taste of trash, please. How about we breed oleo-executives who like to eat trash?
posted by Beti at 2:55 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Beti at 2:55 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Well, we already feed cattle a whole bunch of byproducts from other processes, some of which could be called "trash". The ones I'm immediately familiar with are pressed Canola hulls and some types of slaughterhouse waste. "Some agricultural byproducts fed to animals may be considered unsavory by human consumers."
Devonian: Knowing how blastedly difficult it is to control clothes moths, this has a whole heap of amusing possibilities. Imagine an infestation in the avionics of large jets, or the control systems of nuclear power stations.
Why wait for moths, when ants are already on the job?
posted by sneebler at 3:08 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Devonian: Knowing how blastedly difficult it is to control clothes moths, this has a whole heap of amusing possibilities. Imagine an infestation in the avionics of large jets, or the control systems of nuclear power stations.
Why wait for moths, when ants are already on the job?
posted by sneebler at 3:08 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
The byproducts of the bacterial digestion of the PE seem to be various small and medium sized hydrocarbons... ... but you can make some educated guesses from the data.
Wholly uneducated guess: they eat plastic and potentially poop fuel?
posted by LionIndex at 4:04 PM on November 28, 2014
Wholly uneducated guess: they eat plastic and potentially poop fuel?
posted by LionIndex at 4:04 PM on November 28, 2014
hal c on:Yeah, seriously. We are reaching new heights with science everyday. Using words like 'eat' and 'digest' mean absolutely nothing in this new sci nice unless they are accompanied by what the byproduct is.
Is it something which is less biodegradeable? Is it toxic? Can it pollute soil and groundwater?
Just because I can eat McDonald's, doesn't mean that something better comes out as a byproduct of my digestion. Aesthetically, nutritionally, and visually, it looks about the same...and I'm guessing that's how it is with these worms and plastic.
Not even close.
Is degraded polyethylene, excreted as microbe-sized poops, less damaging than bags and strings capable of choking almost any marine life that encounters it? Absolutely.
Is it toxic? Certainly. To something, somewhere. Oxygen kills clostridium, human body temperatures will kill ice worms, orange juice will kill the majority of bacteria in your kitchen.
Is it toxic to us? By the time it gets back to me, it's unlikely to be in the microbe-poop chemical state. IRDC.
Is it less biodegradable? Almost certainly not. Breaking apart a complex object (like a building, a TV, or an organic molecule) rarely results in more-durable objects.
McDonald's anecdote? I'll harvest your poop, grow mushrooms and carrots in it, and cry at your funeral.
This is fearmongering. By and large, biodecomposition is the primary force behind every life-sustaining cycle in nature. I don't worry for the safety of the woods out back when I throw my rotten apples and banana peels off the deck.
posted by IAmBroom at 4:12 PM on November 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
Is it something which is less biodegradeable? Is it toxic? Can it pollute soil and groundwater?
Just because I can eat McDonald's, doesn't mean that something better comes out as a byproduct of my digestion. Aesthetically, nutritionally, and visually, it looks about the same...and I'm guessing that's how it is with these worms and plastic.
Not even close.
Is degraded polyethylene, excreted as microbe-sized poops, less damaging than bags and strings capable of choking almost any marine life that encounters it? Absolutely.
Is it toxic? Certainly. To something, somewhere. Oxygen kills clostridium, human body temperatures will kill ice worms, orange juice will kill the majority of bacteria in your kitchen.
Is it toxic to us? By the time it gets back to me, it's unlikely to be in the microbe-poop chemical state. IRDC.
Is it less biodegradable? Almost certainly not. Breaking apart a complex object (like a building, a TV, or an organic molecule) rarely results in more-durable objects.
McDonald's anecdote? I'll harvest your poop, grow mushrooms and carrots in it, and cry at your funeral.
This is fearmongering. By and large, biodecomposition is the primary force behind every life-sustaining cycle in nature. I don't worry for the safety of the woods out back when I throw my rotten apples and banana peels off the deck.
posted by IAmBroom at 4:12 PM on November 28, 2014 [9 favorites]
i'd think twice about the banana peels.
posted by Namlit at 4:31 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Namlit at 4:31 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
the first animal discovered to eat polyethylene
Well, they should see Polythene Pam.
posted by Strange Interlude at 4:47 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Well, they should see Polythene Pam.
posted by Strange Interlude at 4:47 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
they eat plastic and potentially poop fuel?
We already have those . I'm actually intending to take that bus to do my business a week on Monday.
posted by ambrosen at 4:51 PM on November 28, 2014
We already have those . I'm actually intending to take that bus to do my business a week on Monday.
posted by ambrosen at 4:51 PM on November 28, 2014
You've never had to deal with old plumbing have you? Because that's more of an inevitably than a can you imagine...
But this was the point of the precipitating post: Our seventy-year old grand exit poop pipe (to the city under-the-street pipe) collapsed after a rainy spring which saturated the soil and broke the pipe.
So we replaced it, at great cost (along with other under-the-floor pipes) with PVC. The thinking was: ah, this will last for a century or so. Long after we are gone. The idea in some posts now is that releasing plastic-hungry organisms into the world could (potentially) dampen our ardor for our permanent solution. This is all very speculative at this point, but techno (or more commonly, agro) solutions to tech or pest problems has often backfired. Now, if we could only convince people to eat nutria and zebra mussels...
posted by kozad at 5:25 PM on November 28, 2014
But this was the point of the precipitating post: Our seventy-year old grand exit poop pipe (to the city under-the-street pipe) collapsed after a rainy spring which saturated the soil and broke the pipe.
So we replaced it, at great cost (along with other under-the-floor pipes) with PVC. The thinking was: ah, this will last for a century or so. Long after we are gone. The idea in some posts now is that releasing plastic-hungry organisms into the world could (potentially) dampen our ardor for our permanent solution. This is all very speculative at this point, but techno (or more commonly, agro) solutions to tech or pest problems has often backfired. Now, if we could only convince people to eat nutria and zebra mussels...
posted by kozad at 5:25 PM on November 28, 2014
I suspect PVC would give even polyethylene-munching bacteria a severe case of indigestion. There's plastic, and then there's plastic.
posted by localroger at 6:04 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by localroger at 6:04 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Now, if we could only convince people to eat nutria and zebra mussels
Zebra mussels are very good at filtering out (and thus accumulating) heavy metals and toxins. You don't want to eat those. At least not from the more polluted lakes.
People do eat nutria, I am told. I haven't tried it myself. If we want more people to eat it, it needs better marketing. If it was cheaper than chicken and featured on enough cooking shows, you could probably get that ball rolling.
posted by emjaybee at 6:32 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Zebra mussels are very good at filtering out (and thus accumulating) heavy metals and toxins. You don't want to eat those. At least not from the more polluted lakes.
People do eat nutria, I am told. I haven't tried it myself. If we want more people to eat it, it needs better marketing. If it was cheaper than chicken and featured on enough cooking shows, you could probably get that ball rolling.
posted by emjaybee at 6:32 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Down on the res there is a dish called chee, (that is how it is pronounced.) It is sheep or goat intestine washd and stuffed with belly fat, and cooked over a fire. It is a standard food. While at a camp I was told the grandmothers say,"Don't rinse the gut too much because it ruins the taste!" When the whole gut bacteria thing came up, I realized that dish probably increases tolerance in the diet for sumac berries, and any thing out there that bites or stings. You go down there for a trailride and eat sumac berries along with the p guide=hospitalization.
posted by Oyéah at 7:03 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 7:03 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
The end products definitely could be more toxic than the plastic itself. Toxicity can be subtle and weird. Carnitine, for example, naturally occurs in muscles and isn't toxic by itself, but dietary carnitine gets metabolized by gut bacteria into trimethylamine, which the liver then makes into TMAO, which promotes atherosclerosis.
Besides, (as I understand it) the harm from polyethylene is not that it's toxic, but that because so few things can eat it, it's resistant to biodegradation and so is more likely to e.g., choke animals and fill landfills, and even more, because it's a petroleum-derived plastic and therefore not so sustainable.
Anyway, now that they have identified the strain (haven't read the paper yet sorry, so just basing this on the abstract which is always dangerous), it seems like they should be able to figure out the waste products over the next couple of years (e.g., feed those bacteria some 13C-labeled polypropylene and look for labeled compounds in the waste). Identifying the enzymes responsible should also be pretty straightforward (that's something you can do a forward genetic screen for, potentially).
posted by en forme de poire at 8:51 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Besides, (as I understand it) the harm from polyethylene is not that it's toxic, but that because so few things can eat it, it's resistant to biodegradation and so is more likely to e.g., choke animals and fill landfills, and even more, because it's a petroleum-derived plastic and therefore not so sustainable.
Anyway, now that they have identified the strain (haven't read the paper yet sorry, so just basing this on the abstract which is always dangerous), it seems like they should be able to figure out the waste products over the next couple of years (e.g., feed those bacteria some 13C-labeled polypropylene and look for labeled compounds in the waste). Identifying the enzymes responsible should also be pretty straightforward (that's something you can do a forward genetic screen for, potentially).
posted by en forme de poire at 8:51 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
en forme de poire: The end products definitely could be more toxic than the plastic itself. Toxicity can be subtle and weird. Carnitine, for example, naturally occurs in muscles and isn't toxic by itself, but dietary carnitine gets metabolized by gut bacteria into trimethylamine, which the liver then makes into TMAO, which promotes atherosclerosis.
I hate this form of argumentation. "Oh yeah? Well, in this one particular instance under these special circumstances, it could happen!"
I just cleaned up the overgrown bushes and trees out back, and dumped the refuse off a short hill (on my property). I could have accidentally hit and killed a policeman with those branches who just happened to be chasing a suspect through people's backyards.
In the world of threat assessment, however, no sane person worries about that.
posted by IAmBroom at 3:02 PM on November 30, 2014
I hate this form of argumentation. "Oh yeah? Well, in this one particular instance under these special circumstances, it could happen!"
I just cleaned up the overgrown bushes and trees out back, and dumped the refuse off a short hill (on my property). I could have accidentally hit and killed a policeman with those branches who just happened to be chasing a suspect through people's backyards.
In the world of threat assessment, however, no sane person worries about that.
posted by IAmBroom at 3:02 PM on November 30, 2014
Not "could happen," but "has been shown to happen." There is precedent for bacterial metabolism converting something pretty harmless into something that seems to have a clinically-relevant harm. That's all I'm saying.
And as long as we're talking about what we "hate," I don't like it very much when people blatantly misrepresent what I've said so they can more easily discount it.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:36 PM on November 30, 2014
And as long as we're talking about what we "hate," I don't like it very much when people blatantly misrepresent what I've said so they can more easily discount it.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:36 PM on November 30, 2014
OK so what if we fused the genetics of this moth worm with a giant jellyfish and put them in to the ocean to-- Hey wait, come back! Did I get my funding?
posted by Theta States at 12:16 PM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Theta States at 12:16 PM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
TEENAGE MUTANT GARBAGE VORTEX JELLYWORMS
posted by Artw at 2:45 PM on December 1, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:45 PM on December 1, 2014 [2 favorites]
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posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on November 28, 2014 [22 favorites]