Pirates hide treasure in Swedish Mines of Moria, doesn't work.
December 10, 2014 7:51 AM Subscribe
BBC: Pirate Bay goes offline after Stockholm police raid. "Paul Pinter from Stockholm County Police, told the BBC that an investigation that had lasted 'for years' led them to the location of the servers containing material related to the The Pirate Bay. As well as servers being removed from the data centre for examination, he said several people were now being interviewed by police."
Independent: "Though they refused to give a specific location, the raid is believed to have taken place at a data centre in the mountainous region of Nacka outside the capital. The Pirate Bay had previously boasted of basing some servers in a 'secret mountain complex'."
Telegraph: "The raid targeted a data centre in Nacka which is built into a 'mountain', according to the police. This suggests that the raid took place at the Portlane facility, which is situated deep within Nacka's bedrock for eco-friendly cooling and high-level security. A short time after the raid – which was the result of a criminal complaint by anti-piracy group Rights Alliance – The Pirate Bay went offline..."
Inquisitr: "Having Pirate Bay blocked apparently was not their only objective. Although it is uncertain whether they were raided, TorrentFreak reports a number of other Torrent websites like EZTV, Zoink, Torrage, and more also went down in the same time frame. Paul Pintér, police national coordinator for IP enforcement, did confirm there was a 'crackdown' occurring in relation to torrent websites."
Datacenter Dynamics: "Some news outlets erroneously reported an attempt to resurrect the website through a domain name registered in Costa Rica – switching domain names has become something of a ‘first line of defense’ for the site – but ThePirateBay.cr turned out to be a simple proxy server displaying a cached version of the front page."
Silicon Republic: "In recent days, internet search giant Google moved to remove a number of The Pirate Bay-related apps from its Play Store after acquiescing to demands from rights holders."
Crave Online: "Commenters on Reddit are already calling for calm, suggesting that authorities simply seized front-end load balancer for the virtual servers, and couldn’t possibly take the sites’ actual servers offline."
Wired: "Today’s raid comes after some of the movie files stolen from Sony Pictures Entertainment in its recent hack became available for download through links at Pirate Bay. It’s unknown if the raid and takedown were instigated by the distribution of those Sony files."
From 2010: Pirate Bay now run from Pirate Party 'mountain bunker'.
From 2011: The Pirate Bay ships new servers to mountain complex
Independent: "Though they refused to give a specific location, the raid is believed to have taken place at a data centre in the mountainous region of Nacka outside the capital. The Pirate Bay had previously boasted of basing some servers in a 'secret mountain complex'."
Telegraph: "The raid targeted a data centre in Nacka which is built into a 'mountain', according to the police. This suggests that the raid took place at the Portlane facility, which is situated deep within Nacka's bedrock for eco-friendly cooling and high-level security. A short time after the raid – which was the result of a criminal complaint by anti-piracy group Rights Alliance – The Pirate Bay went offline..."
Inquisitr: "Having Pirate Bay blocked apparently was not their only objective. Although it is uncertain whether they were raided, TorrentFreak reports a number of other Torrent websites like EZTV, Zoink, Torrage, and more also went down in the same time frame. Paul Pintér, police national coordinator for IP enforcement, did confirm there was a 'crackdown' occurring in relation to torrent websites."
Datacenter Dynamics: "Some news outlets erroneously reported an attempt to resurrect the website through a domain name registered in Costa Rica – switching domain names has become something of a ‘first line of defense’ for the site – but ThePirateBay.cr turned out to be a simple proxy server displaying a cached version of the front page."
Silicon Republic: "In recent days, internet search giant Google moved to remove a number of The Pirate Bay-related apps from its Play Store after acquiescing to demands from rights holders."
Crave Online: "Commenters on Reddit are already calling for calm, suggesting that authorities simply seized front-end load balancer for the virtual servers, and couldn’t possibly take the sites’ actual servers offline."
Wired: "Today’s raid comes after some of the movie files stolen from Sony Pictures Entertainment in its recent hack became available for download through links at Pirate Bay. It’s unknown if the raid and takedown were instigated by the distribution of those Sony files."
From 2010: Pirate Bay now run from Pirate Party 'mountain bunker'.
From 2011: The Pirate Bay ships new servers to mountain complex
Well the good news is that Pirate Bay is at the very bottom of the piracy distribution network. Ain't nothing there that isn't archived, tagged, and indexed at a better managed, lower profile, private site. Even if every Pirate Bay server is destroyed, zero content will be lost.
posted by ryanrs at 8:05 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 8:05 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
If I had servers like this I wouldn't be trumpeting their secret Nordic mountain location, since how many data centres would fit that bill? Not many I imagine. I'd be making veiled references to palm trees to throw them off the scent.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 8:06 AM on December 10, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 8:06 AM on December 10, 2014 [7 favorites]
So let's say someone occasionally used the Pirate Bay when he couldn't find a legitimate way to get a TV or movie? Where would one go now?
Asking for a friend.
posted by bondcliff at 8:07 AM on December 10, 2014 [30 favorites]
Asking for a friend.
posted by bondcliff at 8:07 AM on December 10, 2014 [30 favorites]
Pretty important to remember that TPB is just a list of links. Nothing more.
Even if somehow it were to go down, a list of links is pretty difficult to stop. A list of links can be written in a variety of ways, coded into images and stored on an unknowing server, a variety of ways.
posted by bbqturtle at 8:08 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
Even if somehow it were to go down, a list of links is pretty difficult to stop. A list of links can be written in a variety of ways, coded into images and stored on an unknowing server, a variety of ways.
posted by bbqturtle at 8:08 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
Four years. Edit: "for years". lol
I feel so much safer now.
posted by sylvanshine at 8:08 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
I feel so much safer now.
posted by sylvanshine at 8:08 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
"...that an investigation that had lasted 'for years' led them to the location of the servers..."
That bit is puzzling, because if you google for the location of the Pirate Bay servers (see the last two links after the fold) it kinda comes up immediately. Even indicates on google maps.
"Thar be servers!"
posted by Wordshore at 8:08 AM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
That bit is puzzling, because if you google for the location of the Pirate Bay servers (see the last two links after the fold) it kinda comes up immediately. Even indicates on google maps.
"Thar be servers!"
posted by Wordshore at 8:08 AM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
It’s unknown if the raid and takedown were instigated by the distribution of those Sony files."
I would not be surprised if this were one of the main reasons to do it now, though, as it says, they've been investigating for years.
Years ago I happened to be in the Pacific Mall looking at some DVDs of Chinese films. The store was coincidentally being raided by the RCMP at just that moment. The officer told us were were shit out of luck for buying American films today. We told him we didn't give a shit about American films. I found it interesting that they were only seizing the American DVDs and ignoring the Chinese DVDs. Tells you where the pressure and the money is coming from...
posted by juiceCake at 8:09 AM on December 10, 2014 [12 favorites]
I would not be surprised if this were one of the main reasons to do it now, though, as it says, they've been investigating for years.
Years ago I happened to be in the Pacific Mall looking at some DVDs of Chinese films. The store was coincidentally being raided by the RCMP at just that moment. The officer told us were were shit out of luck for buying American films today. We told him we didn't give a shit about American films. I found it interesting that they were only seizing the American DVDs and ignoring the Chinese DVDs. Tells you where the pressure and the money is coming from...
posted by juiceCake at 8:09 AM on December 10, 2014 [12 favorites]
Nooooooooooo.
Er, I mean, what's a bittorrent?
posted by mkultra at 8:11 AM on December 10, 2014 [14 favorites]
Er, I mean, what's a bittorrent?
posted by mkultra at 8:11 AM on December 10, 2014 [14 favorites]
It is a sad day for the internets.
posted by symbioid at 8:12 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 8:12 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
So let's say someone occasionally used the Pirate Bay when he couldn't find a legitimate way to get a TV or movie? Where would one go now?
Asking for a friend.
Torrentfreak may be a good starting point,a friend tells me.
posted by lalochezia at 8:12 AM on December 10, 2014 [7 favorites]
Usenet.
No, really.
No, really.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:14 AM on December 10, 2014 [17 favorites]
No, really.
No, really.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:14 AM on December 10, 2014 [17 favorites]
Isohunt and Kickass Torrents are still fine as far as I know (work PC so no links for you), as well as the various private sites, some of which are quite easy to join. Worth remembering that all of the seeds and leechers are still out there and TPB is just one of several front-ends for the initial step of linking them up - there's even a ~100mb zip file available to download containing all the magnet links on Pirate Bay up until 2013, which are perfectly usable independent of the website.
posted by forgetful snow at 8:15 AM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by forgetful snow at 8:15 AM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
And they call it a mine. A MINE!
posted by OwlBoy at 8:23 AM on December 10, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by OwlBoy at 8:23 AM on December 10, 2014 [19 favorites]
Arrr! Pirate Bay be scuppered!
Heh. Sorry, couldn't resist. Shutting up now. ..
posted by happyroach at 8:35 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Heh. Sorry, couldn't resist. Shutting up now. ..
posted by happyroach at 8:35 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
irate bay
posted by ominous_paws at 8:36 AM on December 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 8:36 AM on December 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
I really admire those people. They've fought the good fight for a long time.
posted by Trochanter at 8:37 AM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Trochanter at 8:37 AM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
PB isn't even low-hanging fruit - it's a fruit platter sitting on the table in front of the police. If it took them "years" to find it... either they're idiots, liars, and/or justifying year-end budgets for multiple years.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:40 AM on December 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by IAmBroom at 8:40 AM on December 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
bondcliff: So let's say someone occasionally used the Pirate Bay when he couldn't find a legitimate way to get a TV or movie? Where would one go now?One would look for open-registration "private" trackers, such as are listed daily on BTracs where visibility is lower, so the low-hanging fruit are more likely to be skipped by LE.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:42 AM on December 10, 2014 [7 favorites]
Fucking Magnets, How Do They Work?
(Karel Bílek's 19 Feb 2013 version. His July 2013 version is 1.23gigs. See tpb2csv)
posted by jeffburdges at 8:44 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
(Karel Bílek's 19 Feb 2013 version. His July 2013 version is 1.23gigs. See tpb2csv)
posted by jeffburdges at 8:44 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
It took the police such a long time because they expected a more nautical-themed lair. They scoured every coastal cave and submarine base before even considering the mountains.
posted by a dangerous ruin at 8:45 AM on December 10, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by a dangerous ruin at 8:45 AM on December 10, 2014 [12 favorites]
Thoughts from TPB co-founder Peter Sunde: The Pirate Bay down, forever?
posted by gen at 8:46 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by gen at 8:46 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
Pirate Bay was still a pirate site? I thought it was just a place where feds let you download decoy files so they could bust you.
posted by evil otto at 8:53 AM on December 10, 2014
posted by evil otto at 8:53 AM on December 10, 2014
why would the feds bust you? I can't remember the last time i heard about government resources being used against torrenters.
posted by rebent at 8:56 AM on December 10, 2014
posted by rebent at 8:56 AM on December 10, 2014
Yeah, a friend of mine has used TPB as recently as last weekend, and all they've gotten is some emails from Comcast which basically say, "Hey, don't do that. If you do that a couple more times, well, we'll be really disappointed in you." The filesharing lawsuits were such bad optics for the IP holders that they've given up, and just go after the providers now.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:00 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:00 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
When you used piratebay, you were supporting human trafficking. Well, maybe not that exactly, but the ads for 'Russian brides' were particularly disturbing.
One of the founders of PB was happy to see it go away:
One of the founders of PB was happy to see it go away:
“The Pirate Bay has been raided, again. That happened over 8 years ago last time. That time, a lot of people went out to protest and rally in the streets. Today few seem to care. And I’m one of them,’ he writes.posted by el io at 9:14 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
The Pirate Bay was founded as a platform to allow people to share and copy whatever they want without restrictions. However, in recent years very little progress was made, Peter notes.
“The site was ugly, full of bugs, old code and old designs. It never changed except for one thing – the ads. More and more ads were filling the site, and somehow when it felt unimaginable to make these ads more distasteful, they somehow ended up even worse.”
Yeah, a friend of mine has used TPB as recently as last weekend, and all they've gotten is some emails from Comcast which basically say, "Hey, don't do that. If you do that a couple more times, well, we'll be really disappointed in you." The filesharing lawsuits were such bad optics for the IP holders that they've given up, and just go after the providers now.
Your friend's love letter from Comcast is unrelated to TBP's troubles. What happens is that agents of copyright holders (typically independent contractors working for the movie and TV industries) monitor popular torrent swarms, harvest the IP addresses, and forward the info to the appropriate ISP. The ISP then sends the warning to the customer. Repeated infractions can theoretically lead to termination of service. This is the "six strikes" program. ISPs aren't crazy about having to do this, but the MPAA and its friends have made the argument that the federal copyright law (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, if I'm not mistaken) requires them to have procedures to punish repeat infringers. None of this prevents a content owner from filing a mass lawsuit, although it seems that they're less common than they were a couple of years ago. Your friend should get a VPN or seedbox pronto.
posted by Lefty68 at 9:24 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
Your friend's love letter from Comcast is unrelated to TBP's troubles. What happens is that agents of copyright holders (typically independent contractors working for the movie and TV industries) monitor popular torrent swarms, harvest the IP addresses, and forward the info to the appropriate ISP. The ISP then sends the warning to the customer. Repeated infractions can theoretically lead to termination of service. This is the "six strikes" program. ISPs aren't crazy about having to do this, but the MPAA and its friends have made the argument that the federal copyright law (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, if I'm not mistaken) requires them to have procedures to punish repeat infringers. None of this prevents a content owner from filing a mass lawsuit, although it seems that they're less common than they were a couple of years ago. Your friend should get a VPN or seedbox pronto.
posted by Lefty68 at 9:24 AM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
So what law, exactly, do torrent sites violate? As noted upthread, they don't host or distribute copyrighted content; they just tell users' BitTorrent clients where they can find that content. I mean, if you published a directory of people who are willing to allow folks to make copies of their CD collection, would that be illegal?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:25 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:25 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Illegality sadly follows less the law and more the power.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
So what law, exactly, do torrent sites violate? As noted upthread, they don't host or distribute copyrighted content; they just tell users' BitTorrent clients where they can find that content.
Under the doctrine of "contributory infringement," one can be liable for enabling or contributing to the infringing acts of others.
posted by Lefty68 at 9:31 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
Under the doctrine of "contributory infringement," one can be liable for enabling or contributing to the infringing acts of others.
posted by Lefty68 at 9:31 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
So what law, exactly, do torrent sites violate?
Well, I don't know swedish law (swedish lawyers want to chime in on this one?). Personally, I think there are serious moral issues involved here. Not with the piracy, but from having your business model involve human trafficking (feel free to chime in anyone, how "Russian Brides" is not human trafficking).
Ad-blockers can save you from that ugliness, but that's how they are making money.
I must admit I've always been puzzled at porn sites advertising on torrenting sites.... Um guys, if folks want pornography, there is a search bar *right in front of them* that will get them free porn... What the fuck.
posted by el io at 9:57 AM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
Well, I don't know swedish law (swedish lawyers want to chime in on this one?). Personally, I think there are serious moral issues involved here. Not with the piracy, but from having your business model involve human trafficking (feel free to chime in anyone, how "Russian Brides" is not human trafficking).
Ad-blockers can save you from that ugliness, but that's how they are making money.
I must admit I've always been puzzled at porn sites advertising on torrenting sites.... Um guys, if folks want pornography, there is a search bar *right in front of them* that will get them free porn... What the fuck.
posted by el io at 9:57 AM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
I wonder if it's just the case that more "respectable" advertisers don't want their brands being associated with piracy? I know that Google has to approve your site before you can run Google ads on it, for instance. Many ad networks are probably the same.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:01 AM on December 10, 2014
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:01 AM on December 10, 2014
(feel free to chime in anyone, how "Russian Brides" is not human trafficking).
I don't know, could be people trying to get to the west. I don't know. If somebody was staffing a brothel, I'm guessing they wouldn't be using an ad on Pirate Bay to find their source. Maybe, though. I don't know, I had Adblock on and never saw those ads.
But I do know that making your argument takes "low hanging fruit" to a new low. They sure as heck weren't shut down for running those ads.
Hey, you're happy. You think the good guys won. Good for you.
posted by Trochanter at 10:16 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't know, could be people trying to get to the west. I don't know. If somebody was staffing a brothel, I'm guessing they wouldn't be using an ad on Pirate Bay to find their source. Maybe, though. I don't know, I had Adblock on and never saw those ads.
But I do know that making your argument takes "low hanging fruit" to a new low. They sure as heck weren't shut down for running those ads.
Hey, you're happy. You think the good guys won. Good for you.
posted by Trochanter at 10:16 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
A friend of mine works for an "Asian brides" service; from her description, it's basically a highly specialized sort of online dating service that makes her constantly feel like she needs a shower.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:19 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:19 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
feel free to chime in anyone, how "Russian Brides" is not human trafficking
I always thought it was kind of like the "Eastern Brides" thing with the expansion to the West in the US - a shortage or perceived shortage of women let women who had few options in the East where women were plentiful, migrate to the West where women were not plentiful and find husbands that they wanted. So I always thought the Russian Brides thing was a way for Russian women to get citizenship and get to a country with more opportunities, at the cost of marrying some guy who may not be that great, which is always the risk of marriage anyway.
posted by corb at 10:22 AM on December 10, 2014
I always thought it was kind of like the "Eastern Brides" thing with the expansion to the West in the US - a shortage or perceived shortage of women let women who had few options in the East where women were plentiful, migrate to the West where women were not plentiful and find husbands that they wanted. So I always thought the Russian Brides thing was a way for Russian women to get citizenship and get to a country with more opportunities, at the cost of marrying some guy who may not be that great, which is always the risk of marriage anyway.
posted by corb at 10:22 AM on December 10, 2014
I think the discussion of what "Russian Brides" means may be a derail. It's definitely kind of slimy, but it's not definitely OK or definitely not OK. Heck, even if there were ads that said "GO HERE TO BUY SLAVES" it doesn't mean the ads are supporting human trafficking, because, it turns out that ads, especially slimy ones, are not always offering what the ad claims they are.
posted by RustyBrooks at 10:27 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by RustyBrooks at 10:27 AM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
I wonder if it's just the case that more "respectable" advertisers don't want their brands being associated with piracy? I know that Google has to approve your site before you can run Google ads on it, for instance. Many ad networks are probably the same.
You'd be surprised. One of David Lowery's regular features is showing which major brands are advertising on pirate sites.
And honestly, Sunde's comments pretty much verify the point that Lowery et al. have been making for years - digital piracy isn't about "sharing", but is a business model built on not paying for the product that generates the revenue.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:30 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
You'd be surprised. One of David Lowery's regular features is showing which major brands are advertising on pirate sites.
And honestly, Sunde's comments pretty much verify the point that Lowery et al. have been making for years - digital piracy isn't about "sharing", but is a business model built on not paying for the product that generates the revenue.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:30 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Aarghhh! Maybe they wuz bringin' in those Russian brides by submarine? Maybe a lot of talk in tho s e simgles sites isn't necessarily sweet.
posted by Oyéah at 10:41 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 10:41 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
TPB was great for one thing to me, keeping track of what was being heavily pirated. I could always easily skim what was out there, sometimes discovering something I hadn't heard about. Adblock removed the ads so I never saw them. And there are always a better places to get things from.
posted by Catblack at 10:57 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Catblack at 10:57 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
"They sure as heck weren't shut down for running those ads."
Tells you a lot, doesn't it?
I've never been among the ideologically-motivated supporters of IP piracy, but over the years I've come to loathe the MPAA and RIAA because of their plutocratic influence on global law and government. The US government has been effectively an agent for the big IP protection groups, exporting and exerting their influence around the world using its own hegemonic power. And so you have a situation where legions of attorneys, prosecutors, law enforcement agents, commissions, diplomats and civil service workers are deployed around the world at the total cost of hundreds of millions of dollars a year on behalf of people like the members of the MPAA and not, just to take a random example, on behalf of people like the victims of sex-trafficking.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:06 AM on December 10, 2014 [22 favorites]
Tells you a lot, doesn't it?
I've never been among the ideologically-motivated supporters of IP piracy, but over the years I've come to loathe the MPAA and RIAA because of their plutocratic influence on global law and government. The US government has been effectively an agent for the big IP protection groups, exporting and exerting their influence around the world using its own hegemonic power. And so you have a situation where legions of attorneys, prosecutors, law enforcement agents, commissions, diplomats and civil service workers are deployed around the world at the total cost of hundreds of millions of dollars a year on behalf of people like the members of the MPAA and not, just to take a random example, on behalf of people like the victims of sex-trafficking.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:06 AM on December 10, 2014 [22 favorites]
So let's say someone occasionally used the Pirate Bay when he couldn't find a legitimate way to get a TV or movie? Where would one go now?
Asking for a friend.
A friend of mine who has actually done this (because I personally have no idea what he's talking about, I just buy DVD's at the gas station) says that if you go to a search engine and type in the title of the movie you want followed by the word torrent or .torrent you can find a lot of things out there on the internet.
posted by freakazoid at 11:07 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
Asking for a friend.
A friend of mine who has actually done this (because I personally have no idea what he's talking about, I just buy DVD's at the gas station) says that if you go to a search engine and type in the title of the movie you want followed by the word torrent or .torrent you can find a lot of things out there on the internet.
posted by freakazoid at 11:07 AM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I miss having a torrent site for comics. I'd just switch to buying them electronically rather than physically but the lack of discounting combined with DRM offends me. Boggles my mind it continues since it's not like the scanners aren't putting things up anyway.
over the years I've come to loathe the MPAA and RIAA because of their plutocratic influence on global law and government.
The amount of government dollars spent on copyright enforcement - and the fact that they've managed to convince the public that it makes sense - is just astonishing. I'm pretty ambivalent about corporate taxation rates overall but I would love to see some sort of move towards not being the unpaid enforcement arm for any company not paying at least a certain average % corp rate. If you're not helping pay for the Secret Service's salaries why are they helping you with your loss problem?
posted by phearlez at 11:49 AM on December 10, 2014
over the years I've come to loathe the MPAA and RIAA because of their plutocratic influence on global law and government.
The amount of government dollars spent on copyright enforcement - and the fact that they've managed to convince the public that it makes sense - is just astonishing. I'm pretty ambivalent about corporate taxation rates overall but I would love to see some sort of move towards not being the unpaid enforcement arm for any company not paying at least a certain average % corp rate. If you're not helping pay for the Secret Service's salaries why are they helping you with your loss problem?
posted by phearlez at 11:49 AM on December 10, 2014
Site's back up at a new domain.
posted by cozenedindigo at 11:56 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by cozenedindigo at 11:56 AM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Site's back up at a new domain.
Which is basically the whole point of how their site works. The whole site would probably fit on a single CD-ROM since it's just a collection of links and comments.
posted by RustyBrooks at 11:59 AM on December 10, 2014
Which is basically the whole point of how their site works. The whole site would probably fit on a single CD-ROM since it's just a collection of links and comments.
posted by RustyBrooks at 11:59 AM on December 10, 2014
Pirate Bay is not back up. There are just a couple proxies displaying the front page. More info.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 12:03 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by Pyrogenesis at 12:03 PM on December 10, 2014
So I always thought the Russian Brides thing was a way for Russian women to get citizenship and get to a country with more opportunities, at the cost of marrying some guy who may not be that great, which is always the risk of marriage anyway.
That is the traditional concept. But when you're running a service intentionally advertising to women of limited means on one end and men with Problems with women on the other that starts to look borderline at best - and I'm sure you can think of ways it could be a worse bait-and-switch than that. It's not an arrangement that has to turn out badly but do those sites give you much confidence that they are invested in ensuring that?
posted by atoxyl at 12:06 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
That is the traditional concept. But when you're running a service intentionally advertising to women of limited means on one end and men with Problems with women on the other that starts to look borderline at best - and I'm sure you can think of ways it could be a worse bait-and-switch than that. It's not an arrangement that has to turn out badly but do those sites give you much confidence that they are invested in ensuring that?
posted by atoxyl at 12:06 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
So let's say someone occasionally used the Pirate Bay when he couldn't find a legitimate way to get a TV or movie? Where would one go now?
Torrentz.eu is a meta torrent seeker.
the ads for 'Russian brides' were particularly disturbing.
That's why you use ad blockers.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:09 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
Torrentz.eu is a meta torrent seeker.
the ads for 'Russian brides' were particularly disturbing.
That's why you use ad blockers.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:09 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile Sony is mad at Netflix for allowing illegal paying customers to use their service, the scoundrels.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:21 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by MartinWisse at 12:21 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
I agree with Peter Sunde that the technology should move on : If you're media was stored in say Tahoe-LAFS then you should instantly share is all with a friend by sending them one read capacity uri. No messy downloading, unless you want to actually use the media or store a duplicate copy unassociated with your friend's copy.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:23 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 12:23 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
How hard would it be to have scraped Pirate Bay for all the titles, links, and descriptions? Surely someone's done this and can basically start up a new site. I suspect if it was hosted in someplace like Russia, it's gonna be pretty hard for MPAA to do anything about it.
posted by crapmatic at 12:25 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by crapmatic at 12:25 PM on December 10, 2014
So much for there 'were are in the cloud now, no one will stop us, wha ha ha!' announcement they made a bit back
(Not that there's a gazillion other torrent sites... or so I've heard)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:29 PM on December 10, 2014
(Not that there's a gazillion other torrent sites... or so I've heard)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:29 PM on December 10, 2014
The amount of government dollars spent on copyright enforcement - and the fact that they've managed to convince the public that it makes sense - is just astonishing.
The US entertainment industry is a huge plus on the international balance of payments. From an economic standpoint they are very important for the country and the government's actions show that.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:49 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
The US entertainment industry is a huge plus on the international balance of payments. From an economic standpoint they are very important for the country and the government's actions show that.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:49 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
The US entertainment industry is a huge plus on the international balance of payments.
High-speed pizza delivery, on the other hand, remains niche at best.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:55 PM on December 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
High-speed pizza delivery, on the other hand, remains niche at best.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:55 PM on December 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
Ivan F--Just a bit patronizing to assert other countries policies on IP are the result of a vast hegemonic commitment by companies in the United States and the US government. Also, your comment about sex trafficking fails to take into recognition huge international commitments (money and manpower) US based NGOs (companies) make to developing nations let alone the foreign aid provided by the US. And while it is more than fair game to criticize the more recent US military ventures the US, over the years the US has supplied vast manpower to provide military stability in Europe and the Far East. Need we go into US financed rescue efforts at times of international tragedies and natural disasters.
posted by rmhsinc at 12:56 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by rmhsinc at 12:56 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
huge international commitments (money and manpower) US based NGOs (companies) make to developing nations let alone the foreign aid provided by the US.
Don't act like this aid is altruistic. The proper term is soft power. At the very least it is a chit to bargain for other things. In many cases there are stings attached to where the money is spent.-US corporations.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 1:10 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
Don't act like this aid is altruistic. The proper term is soft power. At the very least it is a chit to bargain for other things. In many cases there are stings attached to where the money is spent.-US corporations.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 1:10 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think I will continue to think that the resources provided by US NGOs is largely altruistic--The US houses huge Foundations( charitable-non profits) that make massive manpower, financial and research commitments to world wide projects. Privately funded/charitable/NGO projects have made world class contributions to fighting malaria, TB, illiteracy. birth control, parasitic disease, homelessness, education etc. Ascribe ulterior motives to them if you wish but that is your need which i think would be hard to factually substantiate. As for government initiatives--sure they are directly and indirectly in the US's interest but that does not detract from the outcomes. ( I hope I did not confuse the issue by using the word "companies" rather than corporations in the original post--NGOs are private non-profit corporations.
posted by rmhsinc at 1:20 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by rmhsinc at 1:20 PM on December 10, 2014
Ascribe ulterior motives to them if you wish but that is your need which i think would be hard to factually substantiate.
True, but it's not hard to see it as a Carnegie-like largesse, a trickle of returned wealth that was originally sucked away with great force as by a pump.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:28 PM on December 10, 2014
True, but it's not hard to see it as a Carnegie-like largesse, a trickle of returned wealth that was originally sucked away with great force as by a pump.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 1:28 PM on December 10, 2014
Actually the U.S. music industry earns only about $16.5 billion, while the movie industry earns another $87 billion, so movies and music are not a terribly important sector of our economy, but a few politicians do take important for campaign contributions from them.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:29 PM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 1:29 PM on December 10, 2014 [8 favorites]
I think the most important fact here is that the Swedish police apparently arrested somebody connected to the Pirate Bay. It sounds like the website itself is very resilient, but if the person they have in custody can give them names and addresses of the owner/operators, then it is less likely the site will come back anytime soon. But then again, that's assuming the owner/operators live within a relevant jurisdiction.
posted by Kevin Street at 1:31 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by Kevin Street at 1:31 PM on December 10, 2014
Will no one think of the rent seekers!?!!
posted by Trochanter at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Trochanter at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
The more archives the better. If it ever comes down to nothing but streaming, we're going to lose anything that isn't immediately popular.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:11 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Kevin Street at 2:11 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
Which is basically the whole point of how their site works. The whole site would probably fit on a single CD-ROM since it's just a collection of links and comments.
This has probably already been done, but: it wouldn't be hard to write an open-source torrent-site platform, which could be easily installed on any web server on any domain, just like WordPress. And then anyone (with a few bucks, the requisite know-how, and a lawbreakin' spirit) could easily spin up a new torrent site in, like, an hour.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:48 PM on December 10, 2014
This has probably already been done, but: it wouldn't be hard to write an open-source torrent-site platform, which could be easily installed on any web server on any domain, just like WordPress. And then anyone (with a few bucks, the requisite know-how, and a lawbreakin' spirit) could easily spin up a new torrent site in, like, an hour.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:48 PM on December 10, 2014
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
posted by HMSSM at 3:04 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by HMSSM at 3:04 PM on December 10, 2014
I've no respect for BitTorrent, Inc. after they made BitTorrent Sync closed source, but I'll repost this anyways :
Project Maelstrom: The Internet We Build Next
BitTorrent launches invite-only alpha of Project Maelstrom, the first torrent-based browser
Actually FreeNet wasn't based on BitTorrent, but sounds similar overall.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:07 PM on December 10, 2014
Project Maelstrom: The Internet We Build Next
BitTorrent launches invite-only alpha of Project Maelstrom, the first torrent-based browser
Actually FreeNet wasn't based on BitTorrent, but sounds similar overall.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:07 PM on December 10, 2014
Of course there already are open souce tracker platforms (like Gazelle). The thing is, most people who have the expertise and desire to run a tracker by and large don't want to operate an enormous public cesspool of random crap like pirate bay. If you care about archiving and distributing quality content, a giant public free-for-all is not the best way to do it. So most bittorrent sites instead operate as much smaller, private communities. Most of the people running public sites are in it for political or idealogical reasons, or for the ad money. They're not running a public torrent site because they love movies.
posted by ryanrs at 3:08 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by ryanrs at 3:08 PM on December 10, 2014
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
I mostly download TV shows, because I don't have a TV.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 3:27 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I mostly download TV shows, because I don't have a TV.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 3:27 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
If I download terabytes of stuff that I never get around to watching, have I really stolen anything?
posted by ryanrs at 3:34 PM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 3:34 PM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
This decisive anti-piracy action is sure to stop software and audiovisual piracy forever.
posted by killdevil at 3:38 PM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by killdevil at 3:38 PM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
If I download terabytes of stuff that I never get around to watching, have I really stolen anything?
You're supporting the hard drive manufacturing industry, that's what you're doing. From the bottom of it's heart Samsung thanks you.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:43 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
You're supporting the hard drive manufacturing industry, that's what you're doing. From the bottom of it's heart Samsung thanks you.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:43 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
Also I'm making sure I'm getting my money's worth from comcast.
posted by ryanrs at 3:46 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 3:46 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
I think it's there and I don't think it hurts anybody.
posted by Trochanter at 4:06 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think it's there and I don't think it hurts anybody.
posted by Trochanter at 4:06 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
I pay for a complete super premium cable package, Netflix, and Hulu Plus. There is still a lot of content that is much easier and more convenient to get via piracy even though I have access to a legal copy. (Simpsons World, I'm looking at you for one.) I feel like I have paid my dues there.
If anybody knows of a good private tracker for TV shows a friend of mine would be interested to know about it or receive an invite. I of course have given up piracy right this moment.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:08 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
I pay for a complete super premium cable package, Netflix, and Hulu Plus. There is still a lot of content that is much easier and more convenient to get via piracy even though I have access to a legal copy. (Simpsons World, I'm looking at you for one.) I feel like I have paid my dues there.
If anybody knows of a good private tracker for TV shows a friend of mine would be interested to know about it or receive an invite. I of course have given up piracy right this moment.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:08 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
BTN is the top private tracker for American/English language TV. Only very few members can invite people to the site so your best bet is to get recruited by BTN staff from another top tier private tracker.
posted by ryanrs at 4:15 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by ryanrs at 4:15 PM on December 10, 2014
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
I only watch two shows: The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones. Currently, the only legal way for me to watch those shows as they air is to pay for a cable TV subscription. (Basic cable would suffice for The Walking Dead, but I'd have to spring for a pricier package to watch Game of Thrones. And at least in the case of The Walking Dead, the toll they exact from me doesn't end there: I would also have to endure people screaming at me about Swiffers and the new Ford Explorer every six minutes.)
And, man, fuck that. I'm not going to pay for thousands of hours of programming every month that I don't care about and will never watch. That's like saying you can only listen to the new Nine Inch Nails album (or whatever) if you also buy fifty other albums by random other artists.
Now, I could buy episodes on iTunes instead. TWD costs $2.99 per episode; GoT is $3.99 per episode – and those aren't unreasonable prices for hour-long, movie-quality productions. But: episodes aren't available until four or five hours after broadcast, which is the wee hours of the morning, and iTunes downloads take forever. In contrast, I can have a torrent downloaded and playing within an hour of the EST broadcast. (And there's no technical reason that iTunes couldn't make the episodes available at the same time – they simply choose not to.)
I don't know how long it takes before episodes are available on AMC and HBO's streaming services – but again, I'd have to pay for a full-fledged cable subscription before I could even use those services. (For now. HBO is launching a standalone streaming option in April. If the price is reasonable, I'll probably bite.)
So, left with a choice between paying for fucktons of product that I don't want and won't use (including a bunch of abhorrent shit that I'd frankly rather not subsidize), having to watch episodes the day after everyone else does, or downloading a torrent – the torrent wins.
I would happily pay a few bucks per episode, if I could watch the episodes in realtime. It is 100% technically possible for AMC and HBO to offer this option to me. They choose not to.
Is that a rationalization? Quite possibly, yeah. Is it entitled of me to demand that the copyright owners make their content available to me on my terms? You may think so, and you might be right. But here's the thing: I don't care. As much as I love these two shows, they simply aren't worth it to me unless they're commercial-free, available on the original broadcast date, and not extorting money from me to pay for unrelated content. As soon as there's a legal option that meets all of those criteria, I'll take it. Until then: AMC and HBO weren't going to get my money anyway, so I might as well pirate.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:19 PM on December 10, 2014 [10 favorites]
I only watch two shows: The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones. Currently, the only legal way for me to watch those shows as they air is to pay for a cable TV subscription. (Basic cable would suffice for The Walking Dead, but I'd have to spring for a pricier package to watch Game of Thrones. And at least in the case of The Walking Dead, the toll they exact from me doesn't end there: I would also have to endure people screaming at me about Swiffers and the new Ford Explorer every six minutes.)
And, man, fuck that. I'm not going to pay for thousands of hours of programming every month that I don't care about and will never watch. That's like saying you can only listen to the new Nine Inch Nails album (or whatever) if you also buy fifty other albums by random other artists.
Now, I could buy episodes on iTunes instead. TWD costs $2.99 per episode; GoT is $3.99 per episode – and those aren't unreasonable prices for hour-long, movie-quality productions. But: episodes aren't available until four or five hours after broadcast, which is the wee hours of the morning, and iTunes downloads take forever. In contrast, I can have a torrent downloaded and playing within an hour of the EST broadcast. (And there's no technical reason that iTunes couldn't make the episodes available at the same time – they simply choose not to.)
I don't know how long it takes before episodes are available on AMC and HBO's streaming services – but again, I'd have to pay for a full-fledged cable subscription before I could even use those services. (For now. HBO is launching a standalone streaming option in April. If the price is reasonable, I'll probably bite.)
So, left with a choice between paying for fucktons of product that I don't want and won't use (including a bunch of abhorrent shit that I'd frankly rather not subsidize), having to watch episodes the day after everyone else does, or downloading a torrent – the torrent wins.
I would happily pay a few bucks per episode, if I could watch the episodes in realtime. It is 100% technically possible for AMC and HBO to offer this option to me. They choose not to.
Is that a rationalization? Quite possibly, yeah. Is it entitled of me to demand that the copyright owners make their content available to me on my terms? You may think so, and you might be right. But here's the thing: I don't care. As much as I love these two shows, they simply aren't worth it to me unless they're commercial-free, available on the original broadcast date, and not extorting money from me to pay for unrelated content. As soon as there's a legal option that meets all of those criteria, I'll take it. Until then: AMC and HBO weren't going to get my money anyway, so I might as well pirate.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:19 PM on December 10, 2014 [10 favorites]
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
For me personally, the only things I've used bittorrent for were British TV shows that eventually show up in the US but only after months of pointless waiting. I don't see any laws broken if I watch Downton Abbey in November copied from iTV, when it will show up on PBS sometime in January. I "pay" for PBS content, so I'm just downloading it early and I don't see any sane laws being broken in the process.
posted by mathowie at 4:19 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
For me personally, the only things I've used bittorrent for were British TV shows that eventually show up in the US but only after months of pointless waiting. I don't see any laws broken if I watch Downton Abbey in November copied from iTV, when it will show up on PBS sometime in January. I "pay" for PBS content, so I'm just downloading it early and I don't see any sane laws being broken in the process.
posted by mathowie at 4:19 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
I am favoriting this post... for a friend
posted by Ber at 4:20 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 4:20 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
I don't know how long it takes before episodes are available on AMC and HBO's streaming services
They usually only show up the day after they air on TV, and I think that's to appease the live TV advertisers. I think the networks could provide streaming versions of their shows in real-time, but don't want to piss off their advertisers, which is a difficult situation to be in.
posted by mathowie at 4:23 PM on December 10, 2014
They usually only show up the day after they air on TV, and I think that's to appease the live TV advertisers. I think the networks could provide streaming versions of their shows in real-time, but don't want to piss off their advertisers, which is a difficult situation to be in.
posted by mathowie at 4:23 PM on December 10, 2014
...and related (but not equivalent) to mathowie's point, there's a lot of content that you can't buy from the creator, at any price. Stuff that's out of print, or which was only released in now-obsolete formats, or which has never seen distribution in the US (or wherever you happen to live). Given the option between letting those works die because no company cares to distribute them, and torrenting them so they can continue to live and enrich people's lives, isn't the latter the better, saner option?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:24 PM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:24 PM on December 10, 2014 [6 favorites]
HBOGO has new episodes streaming in real time, but you can't buy it without the cable package yet.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:28 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by Drinky Die at 4:28 PM on December 10, 2014
Scuttlebutt is that you will be able to by HBOGO without a cable package in time for the new season of Game of Thrones. At which point I expect the excuses to move from "I pirate because I can't get the show without an evvviillll cable package" to "I pirate because HBO charges too much!"
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on December 10, 2014 [5 favorites]
Is that a rationalization? Quite possibly, yeah. Is it entitled of me to demand that the copyright owners make their content available to me on my terms? You may think so, and you might be right. But here's the thing: I don't care. As much as I love these two shows, they simply aren't worth it to me unless they're commercial-free, available on the original broadcast date, and not extorting money from me to pay for unrelated content. As soon as there's a legal option that meets all of those criteria, I'll take it. Until then: AMC and HBO weren't going to get my money anyway, so I might as well pirate.
...and people wonder why wage theft is a rampant problem.
If something isn't worth the price to you, then that is your choice. But own that choice completely - both the good and bad. It just amazes me how many people seem to think that it's okay to pirate because "oh, I wouldn't pay anyway" - but they would be screaming bloody murder if that logic was applied to them in turn.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:54 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
...and people wonder why wage theft is a rampant problem.
If something isn't worth the price to you, then that is your choice. But own that choice completely - both the good and bad. It just amazes me how many people seem to think that it's okay to pirate because "oh, I wouldn't pay anyway" - but they would be screaming bloody murder if that logic was applied to them in turn.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:54 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
...and related (but not equivalent) to mathowie's point, there's a lot of content that you can't buy from the creator, at any price. Stuff that's out of print, or which was only released in now-obsolete formats, or which has never seen distribution in the US (or wherever you happen to live). Given the option between letting those works die because no company cares to distribute them, and torrenting them so they can continue to live and enrich people's lives, isn't the latter the better, saner option?
That herring is an impressive shade of vermilion.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:55 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
That herring is an impressive shade of vermilion.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:55 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Individuals copying almost never requires any justification. Viewing data you copied almost never requires justification either. Almost no exceptions, not copyright, not leaked classified documents, etc.
It's only the act of providing data to others that could ever require consideration. Important questions :
- Does providing the information create a significant risk of physical harm to a living person? I.e. doxing or classical treason cases.
- Are you violating a contractual obligation under which you obtained the information? ISP logs, financial workers.
- Are you monopolizing a distribution channel so that content producers cannot connect with their content's consumers? I.e. monopolistic media companies, commercial scale media piracy, etc.
In many case, such concerns are overridden if providing the information serve a larger social good though, like whistleblowing, making the details complicated.
In this case, it's technically morally wrong to buy content from a corrupt monopolistic content company, just like it's morally wrong to support any monopolies, perhaps including your ISP, or even buy oil, diamonds, etc. There is however a critical difference between buying internet server or gasoline, that you maybe cannot realistically avoid, and buying diamonds or content, which you could avoid or easily replace. Diamonds can be replaced by buying less harmful decorations, even machine made diamonds. Content can be replaced by watching freely available content or piracy.
If you're still personally worried about your own content piracy, then I'd suggest that you replace some amount with content that's 14 years old. After 14 years, content should enter the public domain, but the content companies' lobbyists changed that.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:56 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's only the act of providing data to others that could ever require consideration. Important questions :
- Does providing the information create a significant risk of physical harm to a living person? I.e. doxing or classical treason cases.
- Are you violating a contractual obligation under which you obtained the information? ISP logs, financial workers.
- Are you monopolizing a distribution channel so that content producers cannot connect with their content's consumers? I.e. monopolistic media companies, commercial scale media piracy, etc.
In many case, such concerns are overridden if providing the information serve a larger social good though, like whistleblowing, making the details complicated.
In this case, it's technically morally wrong to buy content from a corrupt monopolistic content company, just like it's morally wrong to support any monopolies, perhaps including your ISP, or even buy oil, diamonds, etc. There is however a critical difference between buying internet server or gasoline, that you maybe cannot realistically avoid, and buying diamonds or content, which you could avoid or easily replace. Diamonds can be replaced by buying less harmful decorations, even machine made diamonds. Content can be replaced by watching freely available content or piracy.
If you're still personally worried about your own content piracy, then I'd suggest that you replace some amount with content that's 14 years old. After 14 years, content should enter the public domain, but the content companies' lobbyists changed that.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:56 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
Region-specific licensing is kind of a mess. 3 months ago I lived in the US and could watch Comedy Central clips for free. Now, I don't, and I haven't yet figured out if there is a way to pay for them. I, too, would like to see my president attempt comedy--but despite someone posting a link to it approximately every three seconds, there is no way (that I know of) for me to legally see it.
posted by nat at 5:03 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by nat at 5:03 PM on December 10, 2014
Scuttlebutt is that you will be able to by HBOGO without a cable package in time for the new season of Game of Thrones. At which point I expect the excuses to move from "I pirate because I can't get the show without an evvviillll cable package" to "I pirate because HBO charges too much!"
For some people yeah, but I suspect it's going to be a tremendous success for HBO and a huge increase in subscribers. If I wasn't such a sports fan I would be without cable for sure, even though I'm willing to pay for my entertainment. The value just isn't there for me outside of live sports. I think a lot of the TV nerd audience for shows like Game of Thrones doesn't have a similar anchor keeping them in cableville.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:10 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
For some people yeah, but I suspect it's going to be a tremendous success for HBO and a huge increase in subscribers. If I wasn't such a sports fan I would be without cable for sure, even though I'm willing to pay for my entertainment. The value just isn't there for me outside of live sports. I think a lot of the TV nerd audience for shows like Game of Thrones doesn't have a similar anchor keeping them in cableville.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:10 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
All this discussion is very very interesting, but what's the best private tracker and who has an invite?
posted by naju at 5:13 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by naju at 5:13 PM on December 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
That might be close to a terms of service issue there, naju.
posted by Trochanter at 5:36 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by Trochanter at 5:36 PM on December 10, 2014
Totally a joke. memail me someone anyone
posted by naju at 5:38 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by naju at 5:38 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
I doubt very much deserve has anything to do with it. The success of Netflix is a clear indication that many people are very willing to pay for content. Many people are simply unable to pay for certain content, and with a continuing decline in wages and decent jobs, that's only going to continue. Cable prices are outrageous. In my circle of family and friends, 10 years ago, everyone had at least basic cable. Now, only an elderly family member, and he's about to cut the cord as well. The old model won't have a customer base to support it for much longer I suspect. New models are emerging. I even know very wealthy people who have cut the cord recently due to the increase in prices. They all have Netflix though.
I would guess that most people don't give a fuck since we live in a society where getting what you deserve rarely happens anyway.
posted by juiceCake at 5:50 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
I doubt very much deserve has anything to do with it. The success of Netflix is a clear indication that many people are very willing to pay for content. Many people are simply unable to pay for certain content, and with a continuing decline in wages and decent jobs, that's only going to continue. Cable prices are outrageous. In my circle of family and friends, 10 years ago, everyone had at least basic cable. Now, only an elderly family member, and he's about to cut the cord as well. The old model won't have a customer base to support it for much longer I suspect. New models are emerging. I even know very wealthy people who have cut the cord recently due to the increase in prices. They all have Netflix though.
I would guess that most people don't give a fuck since we live in a society where getting what you deserve rarely happens anyway.
posted by juiceCake at 5:50 PM on December 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
I know nothing about this file sharing and I don't support it. What I have read, though, is that since other public trackers exist, the real loss is eztv's data.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 5:51 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 5:51 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Even when I wasn't downloading from EZTV because of my cable TV online access, I would visit it just to get this holy grail of features: "Give me a simple list of what shows across all networks had new episodes tonight?"
posted by Drinky Die at 6:28 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Drinky Die at 6:28 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Give me a simple list of what shows across all networks had new episodes tonight?
Yes, that particular function was the best part of EZTV.
But I'd be surprised if they don't reappear.
posted by jeather at 7:22 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, that particular function was the best part of EZTV.
But I'd be surprised if they don't reappear.
posted by jeather at 7:22 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think pirating would be fun, I need a boat, and a pirate.
posted by Oyéah at 7:29 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Oyéah at 7:29 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Google News Shuttered in Spain Thanks to “Ancillary Copyright” Law
posted by jeffburdges at 7:44 PM on December 10, 2014
posted by jeffburdges at 7:44 PM on December 10, 2014
Naju's joke is very amusing and I am retelling it.
To the question of entitlement - my torrenting is limited to digital versions of print comics I've already bought or television that runs on broadcast or basic cable channels that I already have.
I'd rather just buy the comics digital since then they wouldn't junk up my house, but I get 20% off cover buying from a shop where I like the people and who grab and drop things in my pull box that they think I'll like. I can read them when and where I want. Buying the digital from Comixology is full cover price and it's junked up with DRM. Why would I want to pay more for less? I'm not even stealing the layout efforts with a comic that I would be with a torrented ebook since they're scanned and assembled by volunteer piratey folk, not the digital product created by the publisher.
I suppose when I download these scan bundles of comics I bought years ago and then turn around and get rid of the original comics I maybe could be cutting into the trade paperback sales, though in most cases the trades aren't even in print. I was thinking the other day I'd like to re-read John Rogers' run of Blue Beetle, but the trades are out of print. Comixology will sell them to me for $2 each but am I morally obligated to buy their offering rather than a scan of the original print issues I still have in boxes in the basement?
On the tv front I goofed up and failed to tell the DVR to tape the premiere of The Librarians before it was already 30 minutes in. Re-air isn't till late tonight but I was inclined to watch it last night in bed. At which point I discovered the TNT app will let you watch either coast's feed live, but my cable operator only shows the east coast feed. Oh well. For some reason the episode was available on the website but not on the app, but the website wouldn't work on the ipad and I wanted to lay in bed and watch it, not at a computer.
I could have torrented it and watched it without commercials. Instead I'll just watch it on the DVR and skip the commercials after it catches the re-air. Or perhaps I will not get around to it and won't start watching the show at all.
I feel no moral compunctions about torrenting broadcast/basic cable shows, as a basic cable subscriber. I mean, I probably wouldn't BE a basic cable subscriber if they didn't make it financially untenable to get internet service from them and not get tv too, but I am.
posted by phearlez at 8:00 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
To the question of entitlement - my torrenting is limited to digital versions of print comics I've already bought or television that runs on broadcast or basic cable channels that I already have.
I'd rather just buy the comics digital since then they wouldn't junk up my house, but I get 20% off cover buying from a shop where I like the people and who grab and drop things in my pull box that they think I'll like. I can read them when and where I want. Buying the digital from Comixology is full cover price and it's junked up with DRM. Why would I want to pay more for less? I'm not even stealing the layout efforts with a comic that I would be with a torrented ebook since they're scanned and assembled by volunteer piratey folk, not the digital product created by the publisher.
I suppose when I download these scan bundles of comics I bought years ago and then turn around and get rid of the original comics I maybe could be cutting into the trade paperback sales, though in most cases the trades aren't even in print. I was thinking the other day I'd like to re-read John Rogers' run of Blue Beetle, but the trades are out of print. Comixology will sell them to me for $2 each but am I morally obligated to buy their offering rather than a scan of the original print issues I still have in boxes in the basement?
On the tv front I goofed up and failed to tell the DVR to tape the premiere of The Librarians before it was already 30 minutes in. Re-air isn't till late tonight but I was inclined to watch it last night in bed. At which point I discovered the TNT app will let you watch either coast's feed live, but my cable operator only shows the east coast feed. Oh well. For some reason the episode was available on the website but not on the app, but the website wouldn't work on the ipad and I wanted to lay in bed and watch it, not at a computer.
I could have torrented it and watched it without commercials. Instead I'll just watch it on the DVR and skip the commercials after it catches the re-air. Or perhaps I will not get around to it and won't start watching the show at all.
I feel no moral compunctions about torrenting broadcast/basic cable shows, as a basic cable subscriber. I mean, I probably wouldn't BE a basic cable subscriber if they didn't make it financially untenable to get internet service from them and not get tv too, but I am.
posted by phearlez at 8:00 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
escape from the potato planet: "or which has never seen distribution in the US (or wherever you happen to live)."
That "wherever you happen to live" part is huge, too. Like, there's this little unknown TV show from the US, called "The Wire", which I happen to like a lot. Too niche and indie to get released on DVD/BluRay/iTunes in Japan, though. HBOGo! No, wait, you need an HBO contract, and there's no HBO here. It might be on NetFlix, though! Oh, wait, no NetFlix here. How about Hulu! That came to Japan! Oh, wait, there is a Hulu, but it has almost nothing on it, and certainly no "The Wire".
(Repeat this for pretty much any interesting show)
(Also, I hear you guys have some cool stuff called Pandora or Spotify or something, but that just sounds too nice to believe, so I think you're just making it up to make folks jealous.)
posted by Bugbread at 9:00 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
That "wherever you happen to live" part is huge, too. Like, there's this little unknown TV show from the US, called "The Wire", which I happen to like a lot. Too niche and indie to get released on DVD/BluRay/iTunes in Japan, though. HBOGo! No, wait, you need an HBO contract, and there's no HBO here. It might be on NetFlix, though! Oh, wait, no NetFlix here. How about Hulu! That came to Japan! Oh, wait, there is a Hulu, but it has almost nothing on it, and certainly no "The Wire".
(Repeat this for pretty much any interesting show)
(Also, I hear you guys have some cool stuff called Pandora or Spotify or something, but that just sounds too nice to believe, so I think you're just making it up to make folks jealous.)
posted by Bugbread at 9:00 PM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]
They usually only show up the day after they air on TV, and I think that's to appease the live TV advertisers. I think the networks could provide streaming versions of their shows in real-time, but don't want to piss off their advertisers, which is a difficult situation to be in.
HBO doesn't have ads, does it? And anyway, wouldn't a live stream have the same ads as the broadcast? Just stream the actual tv feed. All the British networks manage it just fine.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:40 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
HBO doesn't have ads, does it? And anyway, wouldn't a live stream have the same ads as the broadcast? Just stream the actual tv feed. All the British networks manage it just fine.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:40 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Scuttlebutt is that you will be able to by HBOGO without a cable package in time for the new season of Game of Thrones. At which point I expect the excuses to move from "I pirate because I can't get the show without an evvviillll cable package" to "I pirate because HBO charges too much!"
HBOGO is super-good and I'd rather have access to it than dick around with illegal torrents.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:15 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
HBOGO is super-good and I'd rather have access to it than dick around with illegal torrents.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:15 PM on December 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
OwlBoy: "And they call it a mine. A MINE!"
Yeah, it's funny because "mine" implies some sort of private ownership rights.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:03 AM on December 11, 2014
Yeah, it's funny because "mine" implies some sort of private ownership rights.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:03 AM on December 11, 2014
What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?
Why do you feel publishers deserve a legally mandated monopoly on publication of content?
It's not like copyright is enforced to serve a clear public good.
posted by fivebells at 2:14 AM on December 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Why do you feel publishers deserve a legally mandated monopoly on publication of content?
It's not like copyright is enforced to serve a clear public good.
posted by fivebells at 2:14 AM on December 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts,
I submit the question is, "Does Archer (2009) fit this definition"?
posted by mikelieman at 2:19 AM on December 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
I submit the question is, "Does Archer (2009) fit this definition"?
posted by mikelieman at 2:19 AM on December 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
HMSSM: "What's the justification for pirating out of curiosity? Why do people feel they deserve content for free?"Hi. I live in Germany. Until we got Netflix here (a couple months ago) there was literally no legal way to watch any content with the original English sound, what with everything being dubbed into German. Amazon just launched Prime Video in Germany - but everything's dubbed. And there is lots of content which is never dubbed into German, meaning it will never be legally available in my country of residence.
For instance, I like watching The Amazing Race. That's not available on any legal channel here. The obvious choice would be to torrent it, but IP vampires abound here - they buy the rights to shows without any intention to broadcast them, but it gives them the right to claim damages from German torrenters. So we pay for a VPN service and watch it on CBS's website, enduring countless ads for Campbell soup, osteo-flex pills and Farmers insurance, neither of which I could buy in this country even if I wanted to.
posted by brokkr at 4:42 AM on December 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
el io: When you used piratebay, you were supporting human trafficking. Well, maybe not that exactly, but the ads for 'Russian brides' were particularly disturbing.That's a helluva slippery slope you just greased.
Still gonna need a push to get things started. The incline isn't steep enough. Maybe throw in something about Al Qaeda profiting from clicks?
posted by IAmBroom at 7:47 AM on December 11, 2014
Oh, and: Having an invite to a private tracker won't necessarily indemnify you from MPAA-type problems. Your internet provider (Comcast, AT&T, whatevs) can and does inspect packets for blacklisted material, and you can trigger one of those six-strike* warnings if you download without a VPN in place.
Of course, VPNs are available as freeware, so the problem is easily solved. Your ISP doesn't have the resources ($motivation$) to do more than a cursory glance.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:57 AM on December 11, 2014
Of course, VPNs are available as freeware, so the problem is easily solved. Your ISP doesn't have the resources ($motivation$) to do more than a cursory glance.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:57 AM on December 11, 2014
Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'
posted by Wordshore at 10:00 AM on December 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 10:00 AM on December 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
My feeling of some life-altering insight might be nothing but rants on the spoiled, lazy and naive parts of our internet community. And maybe I'm using those terms just to piss people off a little bit more. But hey. I went to jail for my cause and your TV shows. What did you do?
Oh man, I'm glad he's not mincing words! I wonder if he isn't being a bit naive himself, though. I've learned zero about the "cause" from visiting TPB. We all go there for our TV shows, yep. We were supposed to be doing something?
posted by naju at 10:22 AM on December 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
Oh man, I'm glad he's not mincing words! I wonder if he isn't being a bit naive himself, though. I've learned zero about the "cause" from visiting TPB. We all go there for our TV shows, yep. We were supposed to be doing something?
posted by naju at 10:22 AM on December 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
naju: We all go there for our TV shows, yep. We were supposed to be doing something?His point is: you may just use TPB to download porn and America's Next Top Model, but he is committed to a deeper principle, and has proven his commitment with sacrifice - so don't accuse him of being a mere porn-peddler.
Not that mere porn-peddlers can't make important contributions to issues of liberty, too.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:20 AM on December 12, 2014
IsoHunt unofficially resurrects The Pirate Bay
posted by jeffburdges at 10:20 AM on December 12, 2014
posted by jeffburdges at 10:20 AM on December 12, 2014
Wow! I just love that 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?' piece by Peter Sunde, thanks Wordshore.
posted by jeffburdges at 10:29 AM on December 12, 2014
posted by jeffburdges at 10:29 AM on December 12, 2014
Related, on the issue of restrictions on accessing digital content. A new piece by Jessamyn:
Things That Make the Librarian Angry
posted by Wordshore at 10:44 AM on December 12, 2014 [5 favorites]
Things That Make the Librarian Angry
posted by Wordshore at 10:44 AM on December 12, 2014 [5 favorites]
Having a waiting list for library ebooks is really stupid, on the face of it
Yes! I rip the DRM off ebooks even though I read quicker than two weeks usually because the waitlist makes it impossible for me to know when I'm even going to get the book and I may be in the middle of something else. And for audiobooks? No way I do them in two weeks.
My biggest complaint is I wish my library had more quality content, a lot of it is junk. They do very well with getting books I request though.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:05 AM on December 12, 2014
Yes! I rip the DRM off ebooks even though I read quicker than two weeks usually because the waitlist makes it impossible for me to know when I'm even going to get the book and I may be in the middle of something else. And for audiobooks? No way I do them in two weeks.
My biggest complaint is I wish my library had more quality content, a lot of it is junk. They do very well with getting books I request though.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:05 AM on December 12, 2014
The FBI Used the Web’s Favorite Hacking Tool to Unmask Tor Users
posted by homunculus at 9:47 PM on December 17, 2014
posted by homunculus at 9:47 PM on December 17, 2014
Anyone Can Now Launch Their Own Version of the Pirate Bay
posted by jeffburdges at 10:48 AM on December 19, 2014
posted by jeffburdges at 10:48 AM on December 19, 2014
Google Sues Mississippi Attorney General For Conspiring With Movie Industry
posted by jeffburdges at 6:32 AM on December 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 6:32 AM on December 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
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posted by Slap*Happy at 7:59 AM on December 10, 2014 [4 favorites]