The Turbolift Mark I?
December 15, 2014 11:40 AM   Subscribe

"German company ThyssenKrupp is proposing a self-propelled lift that can travel both horizontally and vertically through large buildings and skyscrapers." Includes short animated video demonstration.
posted by marienbad (61 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
self-propelled lift that can travel both horizontally and vertically through large buildings and skyscrapers

Eventually, they'll take to squatting in the basements sulking.
posted by Wolfdog at 11:45 AM on December 15, 2014 [27 favorites]


[To] travel both horizontally and vertically through large buildings and skyscrapers...

...[t]he system operates without cables and uses magnetic levitation technology similar to that used on some train networks.


Nope. Nope nope nope nope & nope.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:46 AM on December 15, 2014 [5 favorites]


If the elevator operator looks like Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka, I'm not getting on.
posted by jonp72 at 11:46 AM on December 15, 2014 [11 favorites]


I mean, I don't care if it uses magnets to move but it needs some kind of mechanically coupled failsafe when transiting long vertical elevator shafts. Like the way a high-speed chairlift detaches and attaches from/to the main cable to accommodate loading/unloading. Maybe clamps that fail closed onto an arrestor cable if the power running through them to the magnets cuts out, or a some kind of timing/motion sensing device senses an overspeed.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:50 AM on December 15, 2014 [4 favorites]


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?
posted by rikschell at 11:51 AM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


The original design for the Wayside School?
posted by vogon_poet at 11:52 AM on December 15, 2014 [7 favorites]


You could add this to a personal transport system, so your mini-car can drive you from the doorstep of your flat, down 30 floors, across town, and up 18 storeys to work.
posted by Thing at 11:55 AM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


I've invented a way to bypass horizontal elevators, and at extremely low cost, too: it's called walking down the goddamn hallway.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:55 AM on December 15, 2014 [14 favorites]


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?

It's not that you need a side-ways elevator, necessarily. But having the ability to move elevator cars sideways allows you to have multiple cars per shaft. This means less wait for an elevator, as well as less elevator shafts. Instead of a shaft per elevator, you have an 'up' shaft and a 'down' shaft, and the cars move between them at the top and bottom of the building.
posted by heathkit at 11:59 AM on December 15, 2014 [26 favorites]


Why are you so concerned about it needing cables? There's like dozens of different ways you could design a failsafe that don't involve cables. You could have regular brakes that pressed against the side of the shaft, you could have retractable gears that slow it to a stop, you could have beams that eject out the side into holes that would stop it. And you of course could have more than one of these.
posted by thewumpusisdead at 12:01 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?

The first thing that came to my mind was mine elevators and conveyors and other oddly laid out industrial facilities as vs. your typical skyscraper tower (or cluster of towers).
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:01 PM on December 15, 2014


Packet-switch all the things.
posted by Skorgu at 12:02 PM on December 15, 2014 [35 favorites]


People won't walk if they can ride.
posted by KHAAAN! at 12:02 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


"you have an 'up' shaft and a 'down' shaft, and the cars move between them at the top and bottom of the building."

Almost like a paternoster?
posted by marienbad at 12:02 PM on December 15, 2014 [4 favorites]


Why are you so concerned about it needing cables?

Well, cables or some other kind of mechanical failsafe, like I said. Brakes or gears would be fine.

Nothing but magnets in a skyscraper elevator shaft is like OH HELL NO.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:03 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


CCTV heaquarters in Beijing could probably use it. It could do wonders in the Pentagon.

At least in low-rise construction, cables and pistons have been obsolete for a while now, so some new propulsion system isn't too surprising.
posted by LionIndex at 12:05 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


Candy power. One million candy power.
posted by Mayor West at 12:05 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


Like the way a high-speed chairlift detaches and attaches from/to the main cable to accommodate loading/unloading
Worth noting that it took quite a while to get that design right. There were quite a few accidents involving springs releasing in high winds (however, we eventually did get right -- modern designs are very safe).

It's also not entirely clear that you'd even be able to design a complex network of cable-driven elevator cars -- you'd still be stuck with a linear track, and would end up requiring a very complicated counterweight system and large/complicated "stations".

The fact that they're using magnetic propulsion does not necessarily mean that the cars won't also be running along some sort of "track," with the wheels locked/geared to only turn in the "correct" direction of travel.
posted by schmod at 12:06 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


It could do wonders in the Pentagon.

The Pentagon just needs an airport-style people-mover (which, coincidentally has some precedent in DC -- there are 3 very short "subway" systems under the Capitol to shuffle staffers through the long tunnels between the buildings on Capitol Hill)

That said, it'd be pretty cool if you built a people-mover system that could "drop" the cars directly onto the concourse. Airport circulators tend to have way too many stairs. (You could also totally do this without a crazy propulsion system -- just put a section of track on a huge set of pistons)
posted by schmod at 12:09 PM on December 15, 2014


This sounds very much like the Wonkavator. I hope they include controls that restrain it at the top of the shaft.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:12 PM on December 15, 2014 [3 favorites]


The real game-changer is if you can get multiple cars in one shaft, all going up or down or whatever. As a skyscraper gets higher, an inreasingly large proportion of the floor area is devoted to elevator shafts, which removes leasable floor area, and makes the building less cost-effective. So, if you can cut the number of shafts in half, that's huge.
posted by LionIndex at 12:12 PM on December 15, 2014 [3 favorites]


Packet-switch all the things.

And now I am reminded of Aramis, and the techno-social frustrations of 'immaterial coupling.'
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:12 PM on December 15, 2014


The fact that they're using magnetic propulsion does not necessarily mean that the cars won't also be running along some sort of "track," with the wheels locked/geared to only turn in the "correct" direction of travel.

That would make good sense with the 'paternoster' layout in that the separate shafts could be engineered to engage discrete sets of unidirectional gears. Which is probably not the most efficient design but has the bonus of not terrifying me.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:19 PM on December 15, 2014


I can foresee some sort of surge pricing for a cabin spot during peak hours.
posted by jsavimbi at 12:31 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


There is effectively zero chance this was designed without any sort of failsafe technology. That was pretty much the singular innovation that created the elevator industry in the first place.

Hopefully it's more reliable than their escalators, though!
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:34 PM on December 15, 2014 [5 favorites]


This sounds very much like the Wonkavator.

I think Star Trek did it first. If horizontal elevators are good enough for the USS Enterprise, it's good enough for me.

I hope they include controls that restrain it at the top of the shaft.

"Deck 43? We don't HAVE a Deck 43!"
posted by happyroach at 12:38 PM on December 15, 2014


Awesome! Even less reason to have to walk anywhere!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:38 PM on December 15, 2014


This is disturbingly similar to dreams I have in which elevators go sideways, become roller coasters, etc.

One reservation I have about the example animation is the high likelihood of cars, like, crashing into each other at intersections.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:43 PM on December 15, 2014


but it needs some kind of mechanically coupled failsafe when transiting long vertical elevator shafts

Oh, thank god for Metafilter. I'm sure the designers hadn't thought of failsafes yet. We can only hope and pray that one of their engineers reads this page before a tragic accident occurs.
posted by Inkoate at 12:44 PM on December 15, 2014 [44 favorites]


Little old lady, heavy shopping, chatting with friend, doesn't notice warning signs that there'll be a sideways movement, fall, break, lawsuit...

I like the idea, and would like to investigate the planned failsafes in more detail, but managing sudden changes in direction for passengers will be a problem.
posted by YAMWAK at 12:45 PM on December 15, 2014


I can foresee some sort of surge pricing for a cabin spot during peak hours.

Yeah, fuck paying for all that technology. Just build the shafts and wait for a private company to come in and run the building-transversing concession.

(That said, I'm working on a 6-story residential facility for the Navy that has 4 elevators. Even though the new designs are much less complicated these days, elevators are still amazingly involved. For example, on the ones we are installing, each car is suspended by five cables - each one of which would suffice to hold a loaded car in the event the other four broke. That's some serious safety redundancy. )
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:54 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


Introducing a second axis of motion to a windowless cube would make me barf instantly.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:54 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


bonobothegreat, I think if the acceleration were suitably gentle you'd probably be okay.
posted by ben242 at 12:55 PM on December 15, 2014


It could do wonders in the Pentagon.
it's called walking down the goddamn hallway.


The Pentagon is so big, with hallways so long, certain workers are allowed to get around on bicycles. And here's a fun fact -- there's long ramps between the floors designed to accommodate interfloor bicycle traffic.
posted by Rash at 12:59 PM on December 15, 2014 [6 favorites]


Doesn't this whole "elevator that also goes sideways" idea get trotted out every five years or so and each time quietly goes nowhere?

Here's a 1997 puff piece about Otis's Odyssey elevator. Most links are dead, but clearly a similar up/down/sideways dealio. No trace of it since then.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:03 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


How about (not vaporware) passenger elevators that go 37 MPH?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:06 PM on December 15, 2014


Magnets bah, what they need is a really really big pneumatic tube system to deliver workers all over the building!

With no hallways for walking and talking scenes how will the screenwriters deal? Won't anyone think of poor Sorkin?
posted by vuron at 1:09 PM on December 15, 2014 [4 favorites]


Just go all out and install the magnetic track system on every road and create elevator cars the size of small apartments with track segments on each face, and we'll all just live in mobile cubes that stack into ad-hoc buildings any time we need to interact.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:13 PM on December 15, 2014 [5 favorites]


Oh, thank god for Metafilter. I'm sure the designers hadn't thought of failsafes yet. We can only hope and pray that one of their engineers reads this page before a tragic accident occurs.

Thanks for pointing that out Inkoate, surely your comment on this discussion site has much more utility than my own.
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:14 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


I am already looking forward to the MeFi flamefests on whether a device for transporting people horizontally can be called an elevator.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:15 PM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]


I am already looking forward to the MeFi flamefests on whether a device for transporting people horizontally can be called an elevator.

OMNIVATOR
posted by jason_steakums at 1:17 PM on December 15, 2014 [4 favorites]


This is not going to make things any clearer for Osaka
posted by Wolfdog at 1:20 PM on December 15, 2014


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?

The brand name of the elevator should be 'Koolhaas'
posted by ennui.bz at 1:24 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


"Stuck between floors" --> "Stuck between floors and/or doors" = Technological Advancement!
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:29 PM on December 15, 2014




jason_steakums: "I am already looking forward to the MeFi flamefests on whether a device for transporting people horizontally can be called an elevator.

OMNIVATOR
"

TRANSMOTIVATOR (shakes fist)

Also this gives me a chance to advocate for some CLASSIC SCIENCE FICTION: Here is a radio dramatization of The Roads Must Roll! based on the story of the same name from Heinlein.
posted by boo_radley at 2:01 PM on December 15, 2014 [3 favorites]


Up And Out
posted by j_curiouser at 2:02 PM on December 15, 2014


And not a moment too soon: If there's one thing Americans get too much of, it's physical activity!
posted by entropicamericana at 2:40 PM on December 15, 2014


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?

Did you not see the fight scene from the new Total Recall? How can that happen if we don't get elevators that can go all over the place?
posted by quin at 2:42 PM on December 15, 2014


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?

They had a dumb example in their video. Basically it was a skyscraper specifically designed to justify sideways elevators.

Almost like a paternoster?

It's like that, except the cars stop for people to get in or out.

Elevator capacity is a significant limiting factor for the design of skyscrapers. Currently, your building gets taller, you have to devote more of your space to elevators. If this works out, it could be important. But I can't imagine it would work with a system as simple as any of their animations. You'd need at least one extra shaft so you can do maintenance without shutting down the whole system. You'd also probably want enough shafts and cross-shaft mobility that cars can pass each other. Otherwise small delays would compound, and larger delays (e.g., someone's moving furniture, and they're bad at it) would mess things up royally.

Long horizontal shafts (like in the dumb offset building in their video) seem like something to avoid; they use a lot of space themselves, but also they cut that floor of the building in two.
posted by aubilenon at 3:50 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


You'd also probably want enough shafts and cross-shaft mobility that cars can pass each other.

Yeah, I was thinking every 5 or 10 floors or something. So, if you had 4 shafts, 2 of them could be for up, 2 for down; the cars can shift over to a down shaft after dropping off people on the way up and a car going up higher could continue on or be routed on a different shaft from the very beginning. Exact configurations could be devised by the elevator guys who are pretty good at what they do, but I'd think that one major change from the normal elevator lobby would be that you'd have to select your destination floor before getting on the elevator rather than simply pushing "up" or "down", just so the elevator router could plan the best car route configuration for any given moment.
posted by LionIndex at 4:02 PM on December 15, 2014


This sounds close to the original vision behind the Morgantown PRT, which was supposed to zip around and between buildings. (This is what JPL, Boeing, and other contractors worked on after the Apollo Program)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:20 PM on December 15, 2014


What kind of crazy-ass building would need an elevator that goes sideways?

One of the major limitations right now on building really, really tall buildings is that you need proportionally more elevator shafts in the lower floors than the upper floors, since everybody going to the upper floors has to pass through the lower floors on the way. This bloats the bases out and reduces valuable ground-floor space. Having an elevator that goes sideways would let you, at the very least, have it cycle over to a different shaft on the way down. Removing the cables, meanwhile, lets you put a ton of cars in a single shaft. Result: a loop of cars, increasing efficiency of space and time.

So yeah, the most pressing need for elevators that goes sideways is because they would let us make our buildings narrower!
posted by fifthrider at 4:49 PM on December 15, 2014


So yeah, the most pressing need for elevators that goes sideways is because they would let us make our buildings narrower!

Or the same size, but with more usable floor area.
posted by LionIndex at 5:18 PM on December 15, 2014


Lila Mae Watson nods approvingly
posted by Gorgik at 5:50 PM on December 15, 2014 [1 favorite]


I can't get the site to load on this ancient browser through two layers of Citrix.

Couldn't you just get rid of the elevator push-buttons and run a loop on a timetable with multiple cars per shaft? Like a streetcar, but vertically. Like a paternoster, but stopping at the "stations."

Best if you could design sidings so express cars could skip stations and bypass the local. Sounds like an engineering nightmare, a lift mechanism that could accomplish that. Is that what this?
posted by ctmf at 7:00 PM on December 15, 2014


Nothing but magnets in a skyscraper elevator shaft is like OH HELL NO.

Magnets work.
posted by flabdablet at 1:05 AM on December 16, 2014


The Giant Drop linked above has no brakes at all most of the way up, just a set of these at the bottom. I'm living proof they work.
posted by flabdablet at 1:09 AM on December 16, 2014


You could just run em like railway tracks. 4 Shafts, Up fast and Down fast on the outsides, up slow and down slow on the insides. Junctions between fast and slow every 5 floors, junctions between up slow and down slow probably every alternate 5.

The only difference between regular lifts and these would be that you arrive in the lobby, and punch it would floor you want before you get in the lift. Next time you get an available lift free it charts out the best route and displays where it's going above the door.
So if you get a bunch of people going to the 40th floor it can rocket up there fast and then do local drop offs. Given you can have multiple lifts in the shaft you don't need to wait for the shaft to free up before you get another lift doing a local floors 3 and 4 run.

Maybe just have two doors, for arrive and depart. The trickiest thing then is the routing software, and of course educating people to select their floors before they get in the lift. You could service a huge skyscaper with 4 lift shafts probably for far less energy (because when you get to big skyscrapers the real energy use is in moving kilometre long cables!).

In summary, forget moving sideways, that's not the real benefit here.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:59 AM on December 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


In summary, forget moving sideways, that's not the real benefit here.

Yeah, and as someone upthread said, a horizontal shaft would effectively split your floors in two, because how do you get across the shaft to the other side of the building? If you have a horizontal shaft in an office building or hotel, it'll basically be limited to the outer side of the building, or the only way to cross over would be through an elevator car with doors on both sides. It might be useful in buildings where that's not a concern, or large industrial uses where you have ceiling space to just build a catwalk stair over the elevator tube or something.
posted by LionIndex at 4:27 AM on December 16, 2014


I never really confirmed this but back in grad school I once read a linguistics textbook that claimed the RP spoken phrase "elevator operator" contains all 8 levels of canonical non-phonemic stress in English.

That is all.
posted by spitbull at 5:34 AM on December 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


I think Star Trek did it first.
‘This isn’t just an ordinary up-and-down lift!’ announced Mr Wonka proudly. ‘This lift can go sideways and longways and slantways and any other way you can think of! It can visit any single room in the whole factory, no matter where it is! You simply press the button… and zing!… you’re off!’

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Roald Dahl, 1964
posted by howfar at 2:29 PM on December 16, 2014


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