Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb?
December 23, 2014 11:53 AM Subscribe
Toby McGaskey at IGN on how "Dragon Age: Inquisition" (previously) deals with a normally unexplored fantasy trope: the Question of People Born as Walking Bombs.
This is an awesome article but I am sad it doesn't go into anything about the Tranquils and the punitive use of the Rite of Tranquility by K-C Meredith, and that the discovery of the existence of a way to revert the Rite is what set everything off to begin with. I'm on run #4 and I still can't bring myself to side with the Templars over this shit.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
I liked how Inquisition nodded towards the weirdness of the first two games where you could walk around in robes carrying a giant staff and yet it was always a shock to people when it turned out you were a mage. And that one woman in Bull's Chargers who kept insisting she wasn't a mage and everybody else just rolled their eyes. You're carrying a mage staff! A MAGE STAFF!
The mage/templar conflict is one of the best handled parts of the DA mythology. I don't know what the right solution is though I ended up going with Cassandra in DAI. I do know that Anders big plan was... not well though out. To put it mildly. To quote Varric, "Great job, Blondie."
posted by Justinian at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The mage/templar conflict is one of the best handled parts of the DA mythology. I don't know what the right solution is though I ended up going with Cassandra in DAI. I do know that Anders big plan was... not well though out. To put it mildly. To quote Varric, "Great job, Blondie."
posted by Justinian at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Eh, I generally favour the templars, to be honest. I mean, yeah, some of them made the lives of the mages intolerable, killed them on a whim and so on, but the Kirkwall circle was the worst, and other circles come across as being more pleasant. Meredith was pretty much insane before she encountered red lyrium, in my book.
The counter point is that the rebel mages seem to embrace violence, slavery, murder, and demonic possession at the drop of a hat. High minded idealists turn blood mages the moment they decide to rebel. Join Tevinter? Sure, where do I sign my life away? The choice of the Warden Mages is made quickly and decisively, too.
Both sides come across as mostly evil, so I'll pick the one that drinks very slightly fewer pints of innocent blood.
posted by YAMWAK at 12:25 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The counter point is that the rebel mages seem to embrace violence, slavery, murder, and demonic possession at the drop of a hat. High minded idealists turn blood mages the moment they decide to rebel. Join Tevinter? Sure, where do I sign my life away? The choice of the Warden Mages is made quickly and decisively, too.
Both sides come across as mostly evil, so I'll pick the one that drinks very slightly fewer pints of innocent blood.
posted by YAMWAK at 12:25 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Isn't that just a problem with the L2 implants? Once they switch to the L3 stuff everything should be fine.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 12:25 PM on December 23, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 12:25 PM on December 23, 2014 [12 favorites]
But if you side with the Templars you don't get to go into the future with Dorian, and having less time with Dorian is not a choice I'm willing to make.
(Really I think the quite a few of the Chantry's Circles are guilty of bad pedagogy -- teach people to withstand demons a bit more maybe, and don't automatically pressure them into situations where demonic possession becomes a choice worth considering.)
posted by rewil at 12:41 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
(Really I think the quite a few of the Chantry's Circles are guilty of bad pedagogy -- teach people to withstand demons a bit more maybe, and don't automatically pressure them into situations where demonic possession becomes a choice worth considering.)
posted by rewil at 12:41 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
And that one woman in Bull's Chargers who kept insisting she wasn't a mage and everybody else just rolled their eyes.
"Old elven trick. You wouldn't understand."
Did I miss it, or did the article not mention the actual "walking bomb" spell at all?
posted by bibliowench at 12:42 PM on December 23, 2014
"Old elven trick. You wouldn't understand."
Did I miss it, or did the article not mention the actual "walking bomb" spell at all?
posted by bibliowench at 12:42 PM on December 23, 2014
I feel bad about it, since TERRORISM, but I totally get where Anders was coming from in DA2, and while the chantry bombing was a bad idea on many levels, I can see how he felt driven to it. Weird thing is that DAI doesn't really resolve anything about the Mage Problem. Presumably that's for game 4 (maybe the two extremes, Qunari vs. Tevinter).
posted by longdaysjourney at 12:45 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by longdaysjourney at 12:45 PM on December 23, 2014
Oh, I guess you can side with the Templars in 2 quite easily with no detriment at all (other than killing innocents in the Circle), since no matter what, Orsino will do the thing.
Forget it, Hawke, it's Kirkwall.
posted by rewil at 12:45 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Forget it, Hawke, it's Kirkwall.
posted by rewil at 12:45 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yeah, loving my slow and plodding playthrough of Inquisition. After over a month of release, I'm maybe halfway done? Just finished Adamant, last night, no spoilers. But loving the Fade twists and turns, as sort of the fantasy collective unconsciousness. Also, the game does religion WELL.
On topic, yeah, lots of journals and in-game texts sort of paint the magic users as basically the worst people possible. In-game, they're my favorite. Playing as an elf mage gal who appeases everyone, and deflects all divinity with hand-wavium at every turn is fun.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 12:54 PM on December 23, 2014
On topic, yeah, lots of journals and in-game texts sort of paint the magic users as basically the worst people possible. In-game, they're my favorite. Playing as an elf mage gal who appeases everyone, and deflects all divinity with hand-wavium at every turn is fun.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 12:54 PM on December 23, 2014
Really I think the quite a few of the Chantry's Circles are guilty of bad pedagogy
The main trait characterizing the rebel mages does seem to be terrified stupidity. I mean you've got this bunch of people who have been imprisoned by a cult since they were children and treated like dangerous criminals, likely given very little training or understanding of the real world, it's sort of unsurprising that they don't really handle their first taste of freedom well.
like rumspringa except with human sacrifice
posted by poffin boffin at 12:54 PM on December 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
WAIT that came out weird, i don't mean that the amish are dangerous cultists who abuse their children oh god please don't take away my pies
posted by poffin boffin at 1:08 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by poffin boffin at 1:08 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The main trait characterizing the rebel mages does seem to be terrified stupidity.
As much as I don't like the "oppressed are just as bad as the oppressors, if given half the chance" storyline, I love that they gave us Vivienne in this game. She's a mage, she thinks mages are weak and need to be controlled by the chantry, but she seems completely unaware that her own privileged position as court mage makes the current tower system very comfortable. She's very realistic, for a magic-sword wielding wizard.
And being voiced by Ellaria Sand makes her even better. I want her to be superior and condescending to me in real life.
posted by bibliowench at 1:29 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
As much as I don't like the "oppressed are just as bad as the oppressors, if given half the chance" storyline, I love that they gave us Vivienne in this game. She's a mage, she thinks mages are weak and need to be controlled by the chantry, but she seems completely unaware that her own privileged position as court mage makes the current tower system very comfortable. She's very realistic, for a magic-sword wielding wizard.
And being voiced by Ellaria Sand makes her even better. I want her to be superior and condescending to me in real life.
posted by bibliowench at 1:29 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
if she wanted to read the phone book aloud to me while stepping on my face i'd be like sure okay let's do that
posted by poffin boffin at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by poffin boffin at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I know, right? I genuinely feel bad about dressing her in plaideweave and making her traipse about in the muck with me to get her snowy wyvern heart.
posted by rewil at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by rewil at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Plaideweave is the great equalizer of the game. Dorian is going to be wearing a lot of it during my next playthrough when I'm not in love with him anymore.
posted by bibliowench at 1:34 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by bibliowench at 1:34 PM on December 23, 2014
Right there with everyone in thinking that Ellaria Sand is great as Vivienne, but man, I end up disagreeing with Vivienne on every point that she actually cares about. If I wasn't a completionist I'd kick her to the curb.
The game pulled off a sort of neat trick that I became aware of only through an accident of timing. I know that they've declared by fiat that sexism and homophobia are simply Not Things in the world that the game occurs in. But the character Dorian, rejected by his family because of his rejection of their way of life, compensates for the loneliness and alienation by cultivating a oversized witty-and-charming-in-his-over-the-top-conceitedness persona that clearly masks a lot of hurt.
I'd just become aware of that during a conversation with him, and then, minutes later, was asked by Mother Giselle to engineer a meeting between Dorian and his family...without telling Dorian about it up front. And she's scrupulously honest enough to say herself that there's no knowing whether or not Dorian's family can be trusted when they say all they want is reconciliation. And that she wants to do it, for Dorian's spiritual well-being, but that she can't do it, because her the doctrine of her faith means he won't trust her.
Now: given that Giselle is a religious leader in a hierarchical faith, and given that Dorian is gay, it's easy to get a bit muddled and read this as a Catholic priest trying to engineer a rapproachment between a gay man and his estranged homophobic family. But by the plot, the issue isn't that he's gay, it's that he's not a magister, nor interested in becoming one.
But I can't help but feeling that the similarity to some people's experience of coming out and losing their family in the process isn't accidental. And I had to turn the game off at this point, because it was late, and I genuinely didn't know what the right choice was, ethically speaking. And I didn't want Dorian to get hurt any worse.
Great fucking game.
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:04 PM on December 23, 2014
The game pulled off a sort of neat trick that I became aware of only through an accident of timing. I know that they've declared by fiat that sexism and homophobia are simply Not Things in the world that the game occurs in. But the character Dorian, rejected by his family because of his rejection of their way of life, compensates for the loneliness and alienation by cultivating a oversized witty-and-charming-in-his-over-the-top-conceitedness persona that clearly masks a lot of hurt.
I'd just become aware of that during a conversation with him, and then, minutes later, was asked by Mother Giselle to engineer a meeting between Dorian and his family...without telling Dorian about it up front. And she's scrupulously honest enough to say herself that there's no knowing whether or not Dorian's family can be trusted when they say all they want is reconciliation. And that she wants to do it, for Dorian's spiritual well-being, but that she can't do it, because her the doctrine of her faith means he won't trust her.
Now: given that Giselle is a religious leader in a hierarchical faith, and given that Dorian is gay, it's easy to get a bit muddled and read this as a Catholic priest trying to engineer a rapproachment between a gay man and his estranged homophobic family. But by the plot, the issue isn't that he's gay, it's that he's not a magister, nor interested in becoming one.
But I can't help but feeling that the similarity to some people's experience of coming out and losing their family in the process isn't accidental. And I had to turn the game off at this point, because it was late, and I genuinely didn't know what the right choice was, ethically speaking. And I didn't want Dorian to get hurt any worse.
Great fucking game.
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:04 PM on December 23, 2014
Curiously, even after playing through that sequence, I am not sure what the right choice was, Ips.
Personally, I warned him what we were getting in for, went for the talk anyhow, and it was... interesting, to put it mildly.
There's no question that it has a lot of those overtones going on.
posted by Archelaus at 2:11 PM on December 23, 2014
Personally, I warned him what we were getting in for, went for the talk anyhow, and it was... interesting, to put it mildly.
There's no question that it has a lot of those overtones going on.
posted by Archelaus at 2:11 PM on December 23, 2014
But by the plot, the issue isn't that he's gay, it's that he's not a magister, nor interested in becoming one.
Wha??? No, it's because he's gay and doesn't want to marry some woman and be forced to live a lie to carry on the family name, and because his father wanted to use a blood magic ritual to de-gay him.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:15 PM on December 23, 2014
Wha??? No, it's because he's gay and doesn't want to marry some woman and be forced to live a lie to carry on the family name, and because his father wanted to use a blood magic ritual to de-gay him.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:15 PM on December 23, 2014
Yeah, Dorian doesn't want to breed a perfect mage-child like his family wants. You can get the father to apologize for being a hateful asshole, at least.
posted by rewil at 2:17 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by rewil at 2:17 PM on December 23, 2014
Wha??? No, it's because he's gay and doesn't want to marry some woman
You know what, that's right. I had that conversation with Dorian what seems like a long, long time ago, and I'd forgot that detail of his biography. My bad getting it wrong.
That does go some ways towards explaining why I interpreted Giselle's request the way I did, I suppose.
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:20 PM on December 23, 2014
You know what, that's right. I had that conversation with Dorian what seems like a long, long time ago, and I'd forgot that detail of his biography. My bad getting it wrong.
That does go some ways towards explaining why I interpreted Giselle's request the way I did, I suppose.
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:20 PM on December 23, 2014
I mean it's true, yes, he definitely doesn't want to be the magister of house pavus like his dad but the root of it is the polite tevinter homophobia wherein gay men are expected to unhappily marry and have kids, and have the occasional gay affair on the side.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by poffin boffin at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2014
And if you're romancing Dorian, you get a big confrontational tsk-tsk from Mother Giselle later on. It made me really not like her as much.
As for sexism not being a thing in Thedas - I'm still sore that you could only become the ruler of Fereldan in Origins if you were male. Female, the best you could hope for is princess (not queen) consort by marrying Alister, which made no damn sense.
posted by bibliowench at 2:30 PM on December 23, 2014
As for sexism not being a thing in Thedas - I'm still sore that you could only become the ruler of Fereldan in Origins if you were male. Female, the best you could hope for is princess (not queen) consort by marrying Alister, which made no damn sense.
posted by bibliowench at 2:30 PM on December 23, 2014
all the more reason to run away with zevran
posted by poffin boffin at 2:33 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by poffin boffin at 2:33 PM on December 23, 2014
Isn't that just a problem with the L2 implants? Once they switch to the L3 stuff everything should be fine.
If the Control ending means that you can tell the Reapers to do anything and they'll do it--including commit suicide--isn't that just Destroy only with less, er, destruction and the geth and EDI get to live? Plus Shepard could build a robot body for herself?
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:34 PM on December 23, 2014
If the Control ending means that you can tell the Reapers to do anything and they'll do it--including commit suicide--isn't that just Destroy only with less, er, destruction and the geth and EDI get to live? Plus Shepard could build a robot body for herself?
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:34 PM on December 23, 2014
MetaFilter: like rumspringa except with human sacrifice.
Wait. No.
posted by The Bellman at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Wait. No.
posted by The Bellman at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
As for sexism not being a thing in Thedas - I'm still sore that you could only become the ruler of Fereldan in Origins if you were male. Female, the best you could hope for is princess (not queen) consort by marrying Alister, which made no damn sense.
Doesn't Anora say the male Warden will be consort to her as Queen, not ruler in and of himself? IDK, never bothered playing a dude to endgame.
posted by rewil at 2:44 PM on December 23, 2014
Doesn't Anora say the male Warden will be consort to her as Queen, not ruler in and of himself? IDK, never bothered playing a dude to endgame.
posted by rewil at 2:44 PM on December 23, 2014
There is a human noble ending to Origins where you can become Queen to Alistair's King. I know because it's my canon ending. <3
posted by Andrhia at 2:47 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by Andrhia at 2:47 PM on December 23, 2014
Let me tell you, I was never so happy that I made Alistair and my Warden rulers of Ferelden as when I came to the Virmire choice in Inquisition and found out what would have happened if I'd gone in another direction.
Sorry, Stroud.
posted by rewil at 2:54 PM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sorry, Stroud.
posted by rewil at 2:54 PM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
You can become king in Origins by marrying Anora, but you only become a princess, not a queen, if you marry Alistair. I just gutted a dragon archdemon with a big ass sword - do I look like I want to be a fucking princess?
And you can only marry Alistair if the putz really likes you, whereas being an asshole is not an impediment for dudes. So I guess I have problems with agency and terminology here. But I would argue that Bioware has gotten a lot better since.
posted by bibliowench at 3:09 PM on December 23, 2014
And you can only marry Alistair if the putz really likes you, whereas being an asshole is not an impediment for dudes. So I guess I have problems with agency and terminology here. But I would argue that Bioware has gotten a lot better since.
posted by bibliowench at 3:09 PM on December 23, 2014
From the wiki:
"If the Hero says that he looks forward to being king, she will tell him that his title will be prince-consort."
And from the epilogue, if you marry Alistair/Anora:
" married King Alistair in a lavish ceremony six months after his coronation, becoming the princess-consort of Ferelden."
" married Queen Anora in a lavish ceremony six months after her coronation, becoming the prince-consort of Ferelden."
Not seeing the difference.
posted by squinty at 3:20 PM on December 23, 2014
"If the Hero says that he looks forward to being king, she will tell him that his title will be prince-consort."
And from the epilogue, if you marry Alistair/Anora:
"
"
Not seeing the difference.
posted by squinty at 3:20 PM on December 23, 2014
The wiki also says you can marry Alistair without romancing him.
posted by squinty at 3:30 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by squinty at 3:30 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
For the folks that have to Virmire between Hawke and Stroud I picture it like the Inquisitor is barely keeping a straight face while making that oh-so-difficult decision. "Yeah... (snicker) ahem, this is a terrible and sad (guffaw) choice but the honor (HAHAHA) is yours, Stroud".
Then everyone else marches off whistling while Stroud wonders what just happened.
posted by Justinian at 3:50 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Then everyone else marches off whistling while Stroud wonders what just happened.
posted by Justinian at 3:50 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
But do the wardens end up less useless if Stroud survives? WHAT IF. Also spoiler alert Hawke goes missing presumably dead anyway. BIOWARE STOP RUINING LIVES
posted by poffin boffin at 3:55 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by poffin boffin at 3:55 PM on December 23, 2014
NO SHE'S NOT DEAD SHE'S JUST WAITING FOR FENRIS TO GRUMPILY MARCH ACROSS THE ANDERFELS AND CATCH UP TO HER
la la la can't hear you
posted by rewil at 3:57 PM on December 23, 2014
la la la can't hear you
posted by rewil at 3:57 PM on December 23, 2014
Hawke goes missing, sure, but I don't think he/she is presumably dead. If you don't seem 'em die on-screen they're probably alive. And if you do see 'em die on-screen they might be alive.
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on December 23, 2014
Fade death is interesting, for those dealing with that choice. The Divine's Fade manifestation hints that figureheads/icons/heroes who perish in the Fade aren't exactly gone. Belief in them in the mortal realm sustains, perhaps?
posted by chainlinkspiral at 5:03 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by chainlinkspiral at 5:03 PM on December 23, 2014
Hawke goes missing, sure, but I don't think he/she is presumably dead.
True, they have to keep the pattern going.
End of Origins: Eventually the Hero of Ferelden disappears.
End of DA2: No one knows where Hawke is, Cassandra, trust me.
End of Inquisition:My pajama nerd boyfriend is missing The Inquisitor can still adventure, so someone else has to go off and be mysterious.
posted by rewil at 5:39 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
True, they have to keep the pattern going.
End of Origins: Eventually the Hero of Ferelden disappears.
End of DA2: No one knows where Hawke is, Cassandra, trust me.
End of Inquisition:
posted by rewil at 5:39 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING:
So do people think that Solas/Fen'Harel killed Flemeth? Or did Flemeth take over his body? Or something else entirely?
Also, is Flemeth Andraste?
posted by Justinian at 5:43 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
So do people think that Solas/Fen'Harel killed Flemeth? Or did Flemeth take over his body? Or something else entirely?
Also, is Flemeth Andraste?
posted by Justinian at 5:43 PM on December 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
SPOILERS FOR ENDING
Solas can speak through Cole, after the end, so I don't believe he's gone. Flemeth says Morrigan was never in danger from her, since to do the body/soul transfer whatever both parties must be willing. Presumably Flemeth/Mythal is willing to help Solas/Fen'Harel continue with whatever he's planning. Probably it will gain her some vengeance against who/whatever murdered her back in the day? Also, maybe she has another handy locket around somewhere for another traveler to take to Sundermount so we can get more Kate Mulgrew.
I don't know where they're going with the Flemeth/Solas :: Andraste/Shartan thing, but something's there.
posted by rewil at 6:00 PM on December 23, 2014
Solas can speak through Cole, after the end, so I don't believe he's gone. Flemeth says Morrigan was never in danger from her, since to do the body/soul transfer whatever both parties must be willing. Presumably Flemeth/Mythal is willing to help Solas/Fen'Harel continue with whatever he's planning. Probably it will gain her some vengeance against who/whatever murdered her back in the day? Also, maybe she has another handy locket around somewhere for another traveler to take to Sundermount so we can get more Kate Mulgrew.
I don't know where they're going with the Flemeth/Solas :: Andraste/Shartan thing, but something's there.
posted by rewil at 6:00 PM on December 23, 2014
This is interesting, but its hardly an unexplored trope - unless you're sticking entirely to video games which would be a little baffling. I mean, Wheel of Time, anyone? Or its twin, the Sword of Truth? Or if you don't read epic fantasy, the Valdemar books have interesting variations in how the various countries treat magicians and frequently do show them as a danger to society.I'm sure there are many others that aren't on the top of my head.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:00 PM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:00 PM on December 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
DO you mean is Flemeth Andraste or is Mythal Andraste? Because I would go for the latter.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:02 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by poffin boffin at 6:02 PM on December 23, 2014
I actually think that the Dragon Age games (at least Origins and Inquisition, which I've played) are not-so-secretly race/gender/sexuality/class struggle simulators wrapped in a high fantasy skin.
Dalish Elf rogue who's called to save the world? Expect snide comments from random merchants and nobles who're surprised that "someone like you" is leading said fight.
Human noblewoman mage who wants to support freedom and equality for all races and backgrounds? Constant suggestions from other nobles that you abandon your folly and embrace your birthright.
Male warrior of most any stripe? Pretty much good. Of course, things run much more smoothly if you're human; money helps, but not being one of the "other races" seems much more important in day-to-day interactions.
Being gay mostly only impacts you if you're in one of the less-privileged classes. Basically anyone will jump into bed with you if you're powerful, rich, and human, regardless of your gender identity or theirs.
Every protagonist in the Dragon Age games ends up with enough influence, military might, and autonomy to basically do their own thing, but that doesn't mean they can avoid casual judgement from bigots the world over if they don't fit the mold.
All of which is to say: kudos, BioWare. You've given this cis white male a safe sandbox in which to see the systematic challenges and microaggressions that everyone else lives through every day. Even better, you've made those characters who struggle more seem that much more noble, even if their conversation menus are a bit more stressful to wade through.
posted by rcoder at 6:09 PM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Dalish Elf rogue who's called to save the world? Expect snide comments from random merchants and nobles who're surprised that "someone like you" is leading said fight.
Human noblewoman mage who wants to support freedom and equality for all races and backgrounds? Constant suggestions from other nobles that you abandon your folly and embrace your birthright.
Male warrior of most any stripe? Pretty much good. Of course, things run much more smoothly if you're human; money helps, but not being one of the "other races" seems much more important in day-to-day interactions.
Being gay mostly only impacts you if you're in one of the less-privileged classes. Basically anyone will jump into bed with you if you're powerful, rich, and human, regardless of your gender identity or theirs.
Every protagonist in the Dragon Age games ends up with enough influence, military might, and autonomy to basically do their own thing, but that doesn't mean they can avoid casual judgement from bigots the world over if they don't fit the mold.
All of which is to say: kudos, BioWare. You've given this cis white male a safe sandbox in which to see the systematic challenges and microaggressions that everyone else lives through every day. Even better, you've made those characters who struggle more seem that much more noble, even if their conversation menus are a bit more stressful to wade through.
posted by rcoder at 6:09 PM on December 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Normal plug for Dragon Age threads: Read BioWare writer Patrick Weekes' Rogues of the Republic series! Female, PoC main character! Supporting characters of various genders, body shapes, and orientations! A giant flying city!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:20 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:20 PM on December 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Doesn't Anora say the male Warden will be consort to her as Queen, not ruler in and of himself? IDK, never bothered playing a dude to endgame.
Yeah, if you're a human noble you can become her prince consort, but not the king. Anora is the ruler of Ferelden.
posted by homunculus at 6:41 PM on December 23, 2014
Yeah, if you're a human noble you can become her prince consort, but not the king. Anora is the ruler of Ferelden.
posted by homunculus at 6:41 PM on December 23, 2014
Yeah but then you have to not kill her dad and I like killing her dad.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:18 PM on December 23, 2014
posted by poffin boffin at 11:18 PM on December 23, 2014
For the folks that have to Virmire between Hawke and Stroud I picture it like the Inquisitor is barely keeping a straight face while making that oh-so-difficult decision. "Yeah... (snicker) ahem, this is a terrible and sad (guffaw) choice but the honor (HAHAHA) is yours, Stroud".
Well, I don't like Hawke/DA2 much, and on top of that, on my first DA:I playthrough the Keep import didn't happen. So, I had Tom-Skerritty-lookin' canon Hawke, and canon Hawke bears the weight of DA2 as written, so fuck that guy.
So yes I laughed, to see the choice in the starkest possible terms.
Total nobody dies. --( o-->)-- Hawke dies.
My Inquisitor's reaction to Hawke's volunteering would be like this.
posted by fleacircus at 5:58 AM on December 24, 2014
Well, I don't like Hawke/DA2 much, and on top of that, on my first DA:I playthrough the Keep import didn't happen. So, I had Tom-Skerritty-lookin' canon Hawke, and canon Hawke bears the weight of DA2 as written, so fuck that guy.
So yes I laughed, to see the choice in the starkest possible terms.
Total nobody dies. --( o-->)-- Hawke dies.
My Inquisitor's reaction to Hawke's volunteering would be like this.
posted by fleacircus at 5:58 AM on December 24, 2014
I just want to know what happened to Sandal, especially since he seems to have predicted Corypheus and the whole breach thing.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:38 AM on December 24, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 7:38 AM on December 24, 2014 [4 favorites]
Yeah but then you have to not kill her dad and I like killing her dad.
Oh, me too. I just wish there had been a way to fight both Loghain and Howe together. That would have been cathartic.
OTOH, sparing him leads to some entertaining banter.
posted by homunculus at 12:39 PM on December 24, 2014
Oh, me too. I just wish there had been a way to fight both Loghain and Howe together. That would have been cathartic.
OTOH, sparing him leads to some entertaining banter.
posted by homunculus at 12:39 PM on December 24, 2014
Huh. Someone over on reddit is claiming to have datamined some "designer notes" about Flemeth and the post-credits scene.
posted by rewil at 12:45 PM on December 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by rewil at 12:45 PM on December 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
I kind of like Loghain once he becomes a Grey Warden. I still think his motivation for betraying Cailan was shoddy at best. It works much better if he thinks the army really was doomed and following Cailan would simply have resulted in all of Fereldan falling but what we saw at the beginning of Origins makes that a problematic interpretation as well. I find it more believable than Loghain being a complete traitor, though.
posted by Justinian at 8:10 PM on December 24, 2014
posted by Justinian at 8:10 PM on December 24, 2014
I just want to know what happened to Sandal, especially since he seems to have predicted Corypheus and the whole breach thing.
He's probably just hanging out with the Nexus Golem in the Deep Roads.
posted by homunculus at 3:53 PM on December 25, 2014
He's probably just hanging out with the Nexus Golem in the Deep Roads.
posted by homunculus at 3:53 PM on December 25, 2014
I kind of like Loghain once he becomes a Grey Warden.
It certainly makes the game more interesting, especially Return to Ostagar. And Sten approves. If there had been an option to fight him during his Awakening cameo that would have been the best of both worlds (and it's a pity that there was no dialogue between Loghain and Nathaniel.) OTOH his new assignment was the perfect punishment, so there's that.
It works much better if he thinks the army really was doomed and following Cailan would simply have resulted in all of Fereldan falling but what we saw at the beginning of Origins makes that a problematic interpretation as well.
Yeah, I like that that gave him mixed motives and a serious case of denial. It was more interesting than Howe, who was simply a bastard.
posted by homunculus at 3:53 PM on December 25, 2014
It certainly makes the game more interesting, especially Return to Ostagar. And Sten approves. If there had been an option to fight him during his Awakening cameo that would have been the best of both worlds (and it's a pity that there was no dialogue between Loghain and Nathaniel.) OTOH his new assignment was the perfect punishment, so there's that.
It works much better if he thinks the army really was doomed and following Cailan would simply have resulted in all of Fereldan falling but what we saw at the beginning of Origins makes that a problematic interpretation as well.
Yeah, I like that that gave him mixed motives and a serious case of denial. It was more interesting than Howe, who was simply a bastard.
posted by homunculus at 3:53 PM on December 25, 2014
Not that I would ever admit to something as lowbrow as reading a video game tie-in novel, but Loghain is the hero of the Origin's prequel The Stolen Throne, and it makes his actions at Ostagar much more sympathetic and understandable.
I mean, I would probably say that had a read the book, which I can't publically admit to, or they take my English degrees away.
Also, thanks for setting me straight on the princess/prince thing. Outrage curtailed.
posted by bibliowench at 6:34 PM on December 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
I mean, I would probably say that had a read the book, which I can't publically admit to, or they take my English degrees away.
Also, thanks for setting me straight on the princess/prince thing. Outrage curtailed.
posted by bibliowench at 6:34 PM on December 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but then there's selling the people of the Denerim alienage into slavery in Tevinter. Ostagar is sort of understandable, everything after just really isn't.
posted by rewil at 10:41 AM on December 26, 2014
posted by rewil at 10:41 AM on December 26, 2014
Unless you see him as a complete ends-justify-means character, in which case the wardens are in no position to judge.
Thedas really is a good example of a crapsack world.
posted by bibliowench at 2:13 PM on December 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Thedas really is a good example of a crapsack world.
posted by bibliowench at 2:13 PM on December 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
i read all the unforgivably execrable assassin's creed novels and i atone for this sin by displaying them on my bookshelves for all to witness my shame and also so i can have the one with connor on the cover close at hand to crush to my bosom when the urge strikes me
posted by poffin boffin at 1:45 AM on December 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 1:45 AM on December 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
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