Totally Unrelated
January 27, 2015 12:16 PM Subscribe
Reasons You Were Not Promoted That are Totally Unrelated to Gender. You don’t smile enough. People don’t like you.You smile too much. People don’t take you seriously. (Single link McSweeney's).
Possibly related: how to be the perfect woman. "Don’t be a piano, or you’ll never get into college."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:35 PM on January 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:35 PM on January 27, 2015 [14 favorites]
Feels like McSweeney's is kind of late to the party.
posted by blue t-shirt at 12:37 PM on January 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by blue t-shirt at 12:37 PM on January 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not as late as corporate America.
posted by almostmanda at 12:41 PM on January 27, 2015 [57 favorites]
posted by almostmanda at 12:41 PM on January 27, 2015 [57 favorites]
I had someone pull the typo one on me. In France. (Reminder: Oregonian who studied French, now living in France, working for French companies.)
I asked for the specifics. They produced them.
I then proceeded to explain how the passé composé form is actually supposed to agree with the direct object when placed before the avoir form, and that there is no circumflex over the u in the passé composé of pouvoir. ("Est-ce que vous avez pu regarder les exigences que je vous ai envoyées ?")
Silence.
Yeah, that's what happens when you try to criticize someone who graduated magna cum laude in French after spending a year in one of the highest-regarded French universities for said studies. OUPS, fait chier.
None of the men I knew ever got criticized for typos or outright mistakes, btw, and one of them was an avowed mistake-maker (as in even he laughed at his mistakes).
posted by fraula at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2015 [33 favorites]
I asked for the specifics. They produced them.
I then proceeded to explain how the passé composé form is actually supposed to agree with the direct object when placed before the avoir form, and that there is no circumflex over the u in the passé composé of pouvoir. ("Est-ce que vous avez pu regarder les exigences que je vous ai envoyées ?")
Silence.
Yeah, that's what happens when you try to criticize someone who graduated magna cum laude in French after spending a year in one of the highest-regarded French universities for said studies. OUPS, fait chier.
None of the men I knew ever got criticized for typos or outright mistakes, btw, and one of them was an avowed mistake-maker (as in even he laughed at his mistakes).
posted by fraula at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2015 [33 favorites]
None of the men I knew ever got criticized for typos or outright mistakes, btw,
lol one time I got chewed the fuck out because I sent out a spreadsheet that I failed to carry the formulas (i.e. click the corner of the box and drag it down some rows) over on some months.
Admittedly I did forget to carry the formulas, it was an error on my part because I was rushing to finish the job. I was rushing because my boss told me that morning that those numbers needed to get out by the end of the day and he didn't actually send me the raw data until 3pm, at which point I realized he had sent me the wrong set of data, which he didn't bother to correct with the right set of data until about 4:30.
posted by phunniemee at 1:19 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
lol one time I got chewed the fuck out because I sent out a spreadsheet that I failed to carry the formulas (i.e. click the corner of the box and drag it down some rows) over on some months.
Admittedly I did forget to carry the formulas, it was an error on my part because I was rushing to finish the job. I was rushing because my boss told me that morning that those numbers needed to get out by the end of the day and he didn't actually send me the raw data until 3pm, at which point I realized he had sent me the wrong set of data, which he didn't bother to correct with the right set of data until about 4:30.
posted by phunniemee at 1:19 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Was this supposed to be funny?
It's McSweeney's. Yes, it's supposed to be funny. By whom, no one knows.
Decorative Gourd Season will always have a special place in my heart, though.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:26 PM on January 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's McSweeney's. Yes, it's supposed to be funny. By whom, no one knows.
Decorative Gourd Season will always have a special place in my heart, though.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:26 PM on January 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I was rushing because my boss told me that morning that those numbers needed to get out by the end of the day and he didn't actually send me the raw data until 3pm, at which point I realized he had sent me the wrong set of data, which he didn't bother to correct with the right set of data until about 4:30.
Good thing you weren't a temp or you would have been fired for his mistake.
posted by serena15221 at 1:35 PM on January 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Good thing you weren't a temp or you would have been fired for his mistake.
posted by serena15221 at 1:35 PM on January 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Companies treat people like shit for the most petty of reasons (when they even have reasons) yet at the same time wonder why people leave and why they can't seem to hire anyone.
It's like being on fire and wondering where the heat and smoke are coming from.
posted by tommasz at 2:04 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's like being on fire and wondering where the heat and smoke are coming from.
posted by tommasz at 2:04 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
the problem is that for a lot of people, it's still really hard to get a job(or get a job that's really full time) so there isn't really all that much pressure on them to stop being fuckheads.
hell, i know of companies that have a reputation for being "good" who still perpetually fire people at a fairly high rate for really, really stupid reasons. or refuse to promote them for the same, and let morons fail upwards while good people leave(either asked to leave, or just walk away) in noticeable numbers.
it's going to be really hard to get otherwise successful companies to collectively snap out of the idea that there's always a line around the block of smart qualified people waiting to replace whoever they tire of. mostly because it's still true.
posted by emptythought at 2:08 PM on January 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
hell, i know of companies that have a reputation for being "good" who still perpetually fire people at a fairly high rate for really, really stupid reasons. or refuse to promote them for the same, and let morons fail upwards while good people leave(either asked to leave, or just walk away) in noticeable numbers.
it's going to be really hard to get otherwise successful companies to collectively snap out of the idea that there's always a line around the block of smart qualified people waiting to replace whoever they tire of. mostly because it's still true.
posted by emptythought at 2:08 PM on January 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Folks who appreciated this should definitely check out this recent AskMe.
posted by threeants at 2:32 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by threeants at 2:32 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have to say you’re developing a little bit of a reputation as a troublemaker.
Oh got this. The number of times I've been told I'm a troublemaker for doing my job and trying to fix problems I was hired to. Or objecting to being given busy work while male colleagues were given the fun, high profile projects. Or, (omg) providing feedback when asked.
My favorite was, as a side project for a class outside of work; I interviewed coworkers about me. And I got my boss on tape saying I was too passionate and cared too much about the work. *eyeroll*
I also got the typo one when I complained to HR about bias from the department manager when it came to turning me down for a promotion in spite of both direct supervisors recommending it. When pointing out that the typo was an informal, internal mailing list that numerous peers had openly and repeated cursed and used abrasive language in addition to typos, I was then told I wasn't ready for a promotion based on his "gut" feeling. (Yeah, fuck you, you sorry drunkard. I'm really sorry I showed you up that one time because I knew more about networking on windows 3.1 than you did. It was never meant as a challenge, and you never took offense when the men in the office corrected you. But thanks for gaslighting me when I defended my actions by faking an email from an ex-employee, but expecting me to not notice the suspicious lack of headers. Oh, and said ex-employee whom I remained friends with saying he never sent that email. )
I comically had a problem where the owner of a company I worked at refused to acknowledge work he liked can from me. He would insist that my male counterpart did the work, even after my counterpart would say, "no, she did that; I had nothing to do with that." Said owner would actually go so far as argue that he saw the other guy working on the project. No amount of arguing from anyone could convince him I did the work. It was almost like gaslighting, but I think he genuinely couldn't grasp the concept that he liked the work of a woman.
I think I could hit on every trope in the article except the kids and commitment one because I don't have kids.
I'm also saddened as I've written this to realize how much gaslighting women in the workplace is part of office culture. Not just the number of times it's happened to me, but the number of times I've heard about it from friends or witnessed it happening to colleagues; many completely unsure of themselves now thanks to constantly having their worldview twisted around.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:34 PM on January 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
Oh got this. The number of times I've been told I'm a troublemaker for doing my job and trying to fix problems I was hired to. Or objecting to being given busy work while male colleagues were given the fun, high profile projects. Or, (omg) providing feedback when asked.
My favorite was, as a side project for a class outside of work; I interviewed coworkers about me. And I got my boss on tape saying I was too passionate and cared too much about the work. *eyeroll*
I also got the typo one when I complained to HR about bias from the department manager when it came to turning me down for a promotion in spite of both direct supervisors recommending it. When pointing out that the typo was an informal, internal mailing list that numerous peers had openly and repeated cursed and used abrasive language in addition to typos, I was then told I wasn't ready for a promotion based on his "gut" feeling. (Yeah, fuck you, you sorry drunkard. I'm really sorry I showed you up that one time because I knew more about networking on windows 3.1 than you did. It was never meant as a challenge, and you never took offense when the men in the office corrected you. But thanks for gaslighting me when I defended my actions by faking an email from an ex-employee, but expecting me to not notice the suspicious lack of headers. Oh, and said ex-employee whom I remained friends with saying he never sent that email. )
I comically had a problem where the owner of a company I worked at refused to acknowledge work he liked can from me. He would insist that my male counterpart did the work, even after my counterpart would say, "no, she did that; I had nothing to do with that." Said owner would actually go so far as argue that he saw the other guy working on the project. No amount of arguing from anyone could convince him I did the work. It was almost like gaslighting, but I think he genuinely couldn't grasp the concept that he liked the work of a woman.
I think I could hit on every trope in the article except the kids and commitment one because I don't have kids.
I'm also saddened as I've written this to realize how much gaslighting women in the workplace is part of office culture. Not just the number of times it's happened to me, but the number of times I've heard about it from friends or witnessed it happening to colleagues; many completely unsure of themselves now thanks to constantly having their worldview twisted around.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:34 PM on January 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
I have heard every single one of those. Every single one.
Not really funny.
(and yeah, McSweeney's: too little too late).
posted by mumimor at 2:34 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Not really funny.
(and yeah, McSweeney's: too little too late).
posted by mumimor at 2:34 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
too little too late
is this a reference to something specific McSweeney's did in the past, or are we arguing that if only they had published this article 5 years ago workplace sexism as we know it wouldn't exist, but now it's too late, curse them...?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 3:00 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
is this a reference to something specific McSweeney's did in the past, or are we arguing that if only they had published this article 5 years ago workplace sexism as we know it wouldn't exist, but now it's too late, curse them...?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 3:00 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah for me this isn't "funny because it's true" so much as "true and fucking upsetting so I'm going to go scream into my pillow now."
posted by gatorae at 3:09 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 3:09 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
is this a reference to something specific McSweeney's did in the past, or are we arguing that if only they had published this article 5 years ago workplace sexism as we know it wouldn't exist, but now it's too late, curse them...?
It's more like 25 years too late for popular culture to catch on to the reality of this. When I was young, I trusted the common notion that our feminist mothers and grandmothers had overcome all this and now we were equal and free to pursue our ambitions and dreams. HAHAHAHA I was so wrong..
posted by mumimor at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's more like 25 years too late for popular culture to catch on to the reality of this. When I was young, I trusted the common notion that our feminist mothers and grandmothers had overcome all this and now we were equal and free to pursue our ambitions and dreams. HAHAHAHA I was so wrong..
posted by mumimor at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
Companies treat people like shit for the most petty of reasons (when they even have reasons) yet at the same time wonder why people leave and why they can't seem to hire anyone.
This is why we need more H1-Bs! You know, to fill all these jobs that Americans Just Won't Do™!
I am not normally what you'd regard as much of a class warrior, but dear god whenever someone trots out the "jobs Americans won't do" line, I really want to escort them down to the cellar to have their picture taken.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:36 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is why we need more H1-Bs! You know, to fill all these jobs that Americans Just Won't Do™!
I am not normally what you'd regard as much of a class warrior, but dear god whenever someone trots out the "jobs Americans won't do" line, I really want to escort them down to the cellar to have their picture taken.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:36 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Totally unrelated (heh) I had an incident today that I'm sure will sound familiar to many women. I was once again accused of not being "nice" in response to some antagonistic bullshit. I have a facebook group I half-heartedly run, but the one thing I'm really strict on is no selling. And so Sunday a new memeber starts posting some really nice artwork he's selling. I delete the post and reiterate the rules, but tell him he can't post in the context of selling. He reposts in that sort of almost selling thing that people do but I let it slide because the artwork is nice and getting positive comments. Come today, I get a private message that he's quitting my small, inactive stupid group. And I responded "lol, whatever." As you do when people lash out when they feel entitled. To which I was told how not nice I was and how difficult it must be for me to make friends. Because, we always know that women must respond with the utmost kindness whenever confronted by a man, no matter what kind of bullshit he pulls.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 5:37 PM on January 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by [insert clever name here] at 5:37 PM on January 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
"jobs Americans won't do"
I have a friend who is a full-bore Reganite, yet he swears to this day that the politician never finishes the sentence.
"Jobs Americans won't do" at that price.
posted by Monday at 6:35 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have a friend who is a full-bore Reganite, yet he swears to this day that the politician never finishes the sentence.
"Jobs Americans won't do" at that price.
posted by Monday at 6:35 PM on January 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I've been gaslighted at a few jobs in my day and always reacted by thinking there was something wrong with me. Whatever it was, was either indefinable, i.e. I was so weird that everyone could tell and no one knew how to describe it; or, so horrible and unfixable that no one could bear to tell me. Or I was just a little stupid and incompetent and it wasn't even worth mentioning. I'd think and think and think, but I could never figure it out. I didn't think any of those things were true...but maybe I was wrong....or maybe I just had low self-esteem and should get therapy. Or maybe they were jerks....lots of energy wasted on all that rumination.
I knew sexism was "out there," but I was from a privileged, academic, liberal background and raised on 70s progressive kids' literature like Free to Be You and Me. Surely only extremely ignorant people were sexist and I would never encounter them! But it seems so obvious in retrospect, and I think it was at least partly my own internalized misogyny that blinded me to how steeped in sexism I was. And the fact that women I knew weren't really talking to each other about the types of interactions that have become known as "microaggressions." Maybe we were all in the dark. Maybe we were just tolerating what we could for a paycheck. Maybe a little of both. I am glad to be part of the conversation about it now, that's for sure.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 6:40 PM on January 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
I knew sexism was "out there," but I was from a privileged, academic, liberal background and raised on 70s progressive kids' literature like Free to Be You and Me. Surely only extremely ignorant people were sexist and I would never encounter them! But it seems so obvious in retrospect, and I think it was at least partly my own internalized misogyny that blinded me to how steeped in sexism I was. And the fact that women I knew weren't really talking to each other about the types of interactions that have become known as "microaggressions." Maybe we were all in the dark. Maybe we were just tolerating what we could for a paycheck. Maybe a little of both. I am glad to be part of the conversation about it now, that's for sure.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 6:40 PM on January 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
Every. Single. One.
posted by caryatid at 8:11 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by caryatid at 8:11 PM on January 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
thinking there was something wrong with me. Whatever it was, was either indefinable, i.e. I was so weird that everyone could tell and no one knew how to describe it; or, so horrible and unfixable that no one could bear to tell me.
you describe this impeccably, and the almost obsessive reiteration of the self-questioning...
posted by communicator at 6:57 AM on January 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
you describe this impeccably, and the almost obsessive reiteration of the self-questioning...
posted by communicator at 6:57 AM on January 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Isn't it weird that in 2014 2015(????) this article is still as true and relevant as it was 20 years ago? And by "weird" I mean "the world is a heartbreaking cesspool of ignorance."
posted by Enemy of Joy at 11:23 AM on January 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Enemy of Joy at 11:23 AM on January 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's more like 25 years too late for popular culture to catch on to the reality of this.
I just don't see how McSweeney's pointedly acknowledging this form of discrimination is a bad thing. Would we rather they be like the rest of our society, and pretend it doesn't exist?
McSweeney's has always seemed pretty progressive to me, this isn't like a former bigot changing their tune... it's people continuing to write about social justice issues, like they've done in the past. They don't need to represent all of popular culture.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 11:38 AM on January 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just don't see how McSweeney's pointedly acknowledging this form of discrimination is a bad thing. Would we rather they be like the rest of our society, and pretend it doesn't exist?
McSweeney's has always seemed pretty progressive to me, this isn't like a former bigot changing their tune... it's people continuing to write about social justice issues, like they've done in the past. They don't need to represent all of popular culture.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 11:38 AM on January 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also I'm pretty sure this is a freelance writer who probably wrote this piece and shopped it around to get published and this is where and when it got published, not that McSweeney's was like "we gotta get on that sexism in the workplace zeitgeist! By March it won't be a THING anymore and we'll have missed the window!"
posted by zutalors! at 12:06 PM on January 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by zutalors! at 12:06 PM on January 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
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hhahahahahahahah it's funny because it's not funny hahahhahahaha
posted by phunniemee at 12:30 PM on January 27, 2015 [46 favorites]