The Complete Works: Ranking All 121 Billy Joel Songs
February 4, 2015 3:30 AM Subscribe
The Complete Works: Ranking All 121 Billy Joel Songs Vulture.com music critic Cristopher Bonanos spent the last three months immersed in Billy Joel's back catalogue. Here are his observations, along with links to many of the songs. As he says in the article, "Let the arguments begin".
I'm happy to see Vienna in the top ten, but And So It Goes should be much higher. It is really lovely.
posted by Area Man at 3:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Area Man at 3:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wow. Billy Joel has written a lot of good songs.
i've always had a weakness for "Summer, Highland Falls".
posted by kinnakeet at 3:44 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
i've always had a weakness for "Summer, Highland Falls".
posted by kinnakeet at 3:44 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Billy Joel is due for a positive reappraisal, timed to coincide with the recent revival of Michael Keaton's career.
"Downeaster Alexa" is excellent, easily the most underrated Billy Joel song. The author is wrong to rank it so low, but he redeems himself by noting that it's one "that people argue over".
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:47 AM on February 4, 2015 [11 favorites]
"Downeaster Alexa" is excellent, easily the most underrated Billy Joel song. The author is wrong to rank it so low, but he redeems himself by noting that it's one "that people argue over".
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:47 AM on February 4, 2015 [11 favorites]
I was very happy to see "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant" in the top spot. It's an absolute killer that never gets old (to me, anyway).
posted by Optamystic at 3:48 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 3:48 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised there are only 121 Billy Joel songs!
Anyway, it can't be easy to rank Joel's oeuvre - though I'd put all 121 songs way below getting bleach squirted in my ears - but fair play to C Bonanos for giving it a go.
posted by cincinnatus c at 3:48 AM on February 4, 2015
Anyway, it can't be easy to rank Joel's oeuvre - though I'd put all 121 songs way below getting bleach squirted in my ears - but fair play to C Bonanos for giving it a go.
posted by cincinnatus c at 3:48 AM on February 4, 2015
Skims down to #1, agrees. (I'm writing it into the record because that never happens.)
posted by chavenet at 3:57 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:57 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Although I have frankly wretched taste in music (like, I really cannot wait for the extremely brief electroclash revival that's due soon), I feel confident in saying that all of these songs are terrible, just terrible. They are all more or less equivalent to having a sour-smelling man sidle up to you at a train station and softly say "bwaaaamp" into your ear. Please, please don't critically reappraise Billy Joel.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
>spent the last three months immersed in Billy Joel's back catalogue.
I am so, so sorry.
posted by Catblack at 4:05 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
I am so, so sorry.
posted by Catblack at 4:05 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
121. “The Mexican Connection,” Streetlife Serenade
An instrumental that sounds like the rights-free music people use in YouTube videos. Fills up side two of the album, and does no more.
On a really great album, even the filler is pretty good. Consider the Police's second album. Example: It's Alright For You.
posted by thelonius at 4:08 AM on February 4, 2015
An instrumental that sounds like the rights-free music people use in YouTube videos. Fills up side two of the album, and does no more.
On a really great album, even the filler is pretty good. Consider the Police's second album. Example: It's Alright For You.
posted by thelonius at 4:08 AM on February 4, 2015
Well, we know why there are so few people left who appreciate the music of this once-very-popular performer: "Only the Good Die Young".
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:12 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:12 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Good list, but the specificity of "We Didn't Start the Fire" is precisely its charm. Consider the Malay version.
posted by texorama at 4:31 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by texorama at 4:31 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
On the Downeaster Alexa: It’s 60 percent of the way to being a great Pete Seeger song, which is not a knock; a lot of people never get close to that.
Joel always said that he had Gordon Lightfoot in mind when he wrote this. In live shows, they'll sometimes have a synth accordion accompany this song to really give it the sea chanty feel.
I hope he'd one day bring out Weird Al to play that part and then launch into It's Still Billy Joel to Me
posted by dr_dank at 4:35 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Joel always said that he had Gordon Lightfoot in mind when he wrote this. In live shows, they'll sometimes have a synth accordion accompany this song to really give it the sea chanty feel.
I hope he'd one day bring out Weird Al to play that part and then launch into It's Still Billy Joel to Me
posted by dr_dank at 4:35 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Why all the hate for Jilly Bowl? I grew up on the Island in the 70's and early 80s. He's no poet laureate, but he wrote entertaining vivid songs about what he knew. He gave a great interview to Howard Stern a few years back. He seems to be a genuinely nice funny everyday type of guy.
I also think Moving Out should be #11 not #13.
posted by 724A at 4:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
I also think Moving Out should be #11 not #13.
posted by 724A at 4:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
I feel confident in saying that all of these songs are terrible, just terrible. They are all more or less equivalent to having a sour-smelling man sidle up to you at a train station and softly say "bwaaaamp" into your ear.
a sour-smelling man once sidled up to me,
the man said softly "bwaaaamp" into my ear
then I couldn't help but notice that this man was Billy Joel,
his microphone, of course, smelled like a beer.
then i realized it really wasn't "bwaaaamp", not "bwaaaamp" at all,
it really wasn't "bwaaaamp" that Joel was saying!
instead it was "I love you... just the way you are!"
which was, as you'd imagine, quite dismaying.
and so i tried to get away,
but Joel said "please don't go!
i'm in a New York state of mind!
Oh brother, don't you know?"
but I'd rather join a chain gang,
I'd rather shovel coal,
than listen to another goddam song by Billy Joel.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [19 favorites]
a sour-smelling man once sidled up to me,
the man said softly "bwaaaamp" into my ear
then I couldn't help but notice that this man was Billy Joel,
his microphone, of course, smelled like a beer.
then i realized it really wasn't "bwaaaamp", not "bwaaaamp" at all,
it really wasn't "bwaaaamp" that Joel was saying!
instead it was "I love you... just the way you are!"
which was, as you'd imagine, quite dismaying.
and so i tried to get away,
but Joel said "please don't go!
i'm in a New York state of mind!
Oh brother, don't you know?"
but I'd rather join a chain gang,
I'd rather shovel coal,
than listen to another goddam song by Billy Joel.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [19 favorites]
I feel about Billy Joel songs the way I feel about show tunes. But flapjax said it better.
posted by psmealey at 4:47 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by psmealey at 4:47 AM on February 4, 2015
No retrospective of Billy Joel's discography is complete without a mention of his earlier metal duo Attila. Here's their album.
posted by fairmettle at 4:52 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by fairmettle at 4:52 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
bwaaaamp.
posted by ardgedee at 4:53 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 4:53 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
As a Billy Joel fan of 35 years standing, I'll come back and argue after the beers with Katullus
posted by infini at 4:54 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by infini at 4:54 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
As others have said, it's so rare for lists like these to get the choice for #1 position correct, but that's what's happened here! Amazing.
Here is a good picture of Billy Joel.
posted by oliverburkeman at 4:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Here is a good picture of Billy Joel.
posted by oliverburkeman at 4:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Billy Joel looks suspiciously like Krusty the clown when K fakes his death and lives on a boat. Conclusion: Bily Joel is not real, but is just a tulpa created as a back corner of The Simpsons elbows its way into our reality.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 5:00 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by the phlegmatic king at 5:00 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm going to get around to writing "Scenes From The Basement Of An Italian Restaurant" one day.
posted by thelonius at 5:01 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:01 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I want to like Billy Joel's songs. He is talented and can crank out a ballad with the best of them. The problem with Billy Joel (and the word that has to be attached to any critique) is that he is so goddamned condescending. Still Rock and Roll. Uptown Girl. She's Always a Woman should have been Mitt Romney's "Binders of Women" theme song. (I'm not sure what that last sentence actually means.) For every time he produces a song of wonder, he produces another that feels hateful. And that hatefulness carries over to pollute the others.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:04 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:04 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
The problem with Billy Joel (and the word that has to be attached to any critique) is that he is so goddamned condescending.
He has certainly written some bizarre "instructional" songs as noted in the link – and some plain bad songs! But I think he also deserves a little leeway as a lyricist in evoking a certain world, rather than personally endorsing all the attitudes and characters of that world – a defence I've more often heard made of violent hip hop lyrics, but I think it applies here too.
posted by oliverburkeman at 5:11 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
He has certainly written some bizarre "instructional" songs as noted in the link – and some plain bad songs! But I think he also deserves a little leeway as a lyricist in evoking a certain world, rather than personally endorsing all the attitudes and characters of that world – a defence I've more often heard made of violent hip hop lyrics, but I think it applies here too.
posted by oliverburkeman at 5:11 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think this list is a very even-handed assessment of Billy Joel's work. He has written some really nice pop gems, along with some heavy handed clunkers and by all accounts he seems like a nice guy who is very aware of his strengths and limitations as a composer and performer. I think a lot of the hate that gets directed at him has more to do with his fans mistaking his sentimentality for deep insight, as if he's the Poet Laureat of Long Island or something. For myself, I find the harder he tries to say something deep and profound, the worse the song tends to be.
posted by KingEdRa at 5:17 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 5:17 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
I feel about Billy Joel songs the way I feel about show tunes
Me too! I think they are both great!
posted by uncleozzy at 5:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [35 favorites]
Me too! I think they are both great!
posted by uncleozzy at 5:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [35 favorites]
I feel about Billy Joel songs the way I feel about show tunes
Me too. Ie they're heck of a lot of fun at the right time and I respect how much they mean to certain people.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:22 AM on February 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
Me too. Ie they're heck of a lot of fun at the right time and I respect how much they mean to certain people.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:22 AM on February 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
This article though. Tsk tsk.
He's way too forgiving of cheese like Uptown Girl and New York State of mind. And his reasons for Summer Highland Falls not being in the top ten are crazy. It's obviously one of if not the quintessential BJ song.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's way too forgiving of cheese like Uptown Girl and New York State of mind. And his reasons for Summer Highland Falls not being in the top ten are crazy. It's obviously one of if not the quintessential BJ song.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Goddam right, "Sleeping with the television on" (#4). it's the song i play the Billy Joel haters in my world.
posted by Zerowensboring at 5:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Zerowensboring at 5:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
The success of Movin' Out (the stage show) pretty much proved that Billy Joel songs are showtunes.
posted by graymouser at 5:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by graymouser at 5:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
121-way tie for last.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [11 favorites]
Sleeping with the television on
Is it just me, or is the top string of the bass completely out of tune until after the bridge?
posted by uncleozzy at 5:49 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is it just me, or is the top string of the bass completely out of tune until after the bridge?
posted by uncleozzy at 5:49 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm going to get around to writing "Scenes From The Basement Of An Italian Restaurant" one day.
Dibs on "Scenes From The Walk-In Freezer Of An Italian Restaurant."
posted by octobersurprise at 5:49 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Dibs on "Scenes From The Walk-In Freezer Of An Italian Restaurant."
posted by octobersurprise at 5:49 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
This list isn't complete without mentioning that Billy Joel was was WFMU's Artist of the Year, as determined by Tom Scharpling on The Best Show, in 2001 and 2002. Scroll down to Dec 4, 2001 and Dec17 2002 on The Best Show's archive page to listen.
posted by plastic_animals at 5:54 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by plastic_animals at 5:54 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Grew up on Long Island trying to avoid Billy Joel songs at all costs, and grew into a serious songwriter, so I got me an opinion and I'm gonna say it. Even his gems contain glaring flaws just at the level of song craft -- weak rhymes, cliches, hackneyed metaphors, forced narratives. Great to good (though typically conservatively pop) melodies, sure, and a lively showman, but nowhere near a poet of note.
His reputation seems dependent on his commercial success, which would in turn depend his being a watered down working-class bard, a slightly more middle class and ethnic Springsteen, if you will, but not Full Manilow, at least.
posted by spitbull at 5:58 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
His reputation seems dependent on his commercial success, which would in turn depend his being a watered down working-class bard, a slightly more middle class and ethnic Springsteen, if you will, but not Full Manilow, at least.
posted by spitbull at 5:58 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
You never go Full Manilow.
posted by digitalprimate at 6:01 AM on February 4, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by digitalprimate at 6:01 AM on February 4, 2015 [23 favorites]
I was happy to see "The Longest Time" in the top 10. I don't understand the hate for Billy Joel. You're free not to like his music. Not everything is for everyone.
posted by Dolley at 6:09 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Dolley at 6:09 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
I like music that's a little cheezey (even to the extent of appreciating Gordon Lightfoot), value showmanship, and put a premium on a good melody. Billy Joel is the guy for me. (I also like Neil Diamond. Go figure.)
posted by Area Man at 6:11 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Area Man at 6:11 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
One of the trippy things about getting older is watching the critical consensus of various artists of all stripes rise and fall like the tides.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on February 4, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on February 4, 2015 [17 favorites]
One of the trippy things about getting older
also stuff like watching people discover that there were R.E.M. albums before "Green"
posted by thelonius at 6:14 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
also stuff like watching people discover that there were R.E.M. albums before "Green"
posted by thelonius at 6:14 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
You Can't Tip a Buick: "softly say "bwaaaamp" into your ear. "
"bwaaaamp" or "mwaaaamp"?
posted by notsnot at 6:17 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
"bwaaaamp" or "mwaaaamp"?
posted by notsnot at 6:17 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, in my youth I had a fondness for Turnstiles and The Stranger, and somewhere along the way, in my twenties, perhaps, I found the need to give some music to my mother to listen to in her car. She just never seemed that interested in listening to music and I was going to show her the light or some sort of condescending twenties shit. Anyway, I don't know how many albums I tried on her, but one of them was a Billy Joel greatest hits cassette. So, yeah, the thing is she never was interested in trying my other options, it was all Billy Joel, all the time from then on. It was the only music she listened to in her car from then on, so say twenty years of the same album. I'm not sure what that says or means, but I will say she didn't turn the album on when others were in the car, it was just for her, and now if I hear about Billy Joel I think of my mom and it is bittersweet. Leave a tender moment alone indeed...
posted by dawg-proud at 6:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by dawg-proud at 6:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [12 favorites]
One of the trippy things about getting older
also stuff like watching people discover that there were R.E.M. albums before "Green"
Also stuff like… the other night, when I was at a poetry/music open mic here in Tokyo. Met a young couple, from a large city in Canada, early 20-somethings. He with scraggly beard, she in bohemian hat. Very nice folks, chatted for quite awhile. Neither of them had ever heard of Elvis Costello or Captain Beefheart. Not just hadn't heard their music: had never heard the names at all.
I have to say I was a little bit surprised.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:20 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
also stuff like watching people discover that there were R.E.M. albums before "Green"
Also stuff like… the other night, when I was at a poetry/music open mic here in Tokyo. Met a young couple, from a large city in Canada, early 20-somethings. He with scraggly beard, she in bohemian hat. Very nice folks, chatted for quite awhile. Neither of them had ever heard of Elvis Costello or Captain Beefheart. Not just hadn't heard their music: had never heard the names at all.
I have to say I was a little bit surprised.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:20 AM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
"bwaaaamp" or "mwaaaamp"?
I think you're looking for the mondegreen thread, a few posts down...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you're looking for the mondegreen thread, a few posts down...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
> also stuff like watching people discover that there were R.E.M. albums before "Green"
A while back I was reading an article about all the current bands who were influenced by The Strokes, started flipping out ("WHAT THE HELL THIS ARTICLE DOESN'T EVEN *MENTION* TELEVISION OR THE VELVET UNDERGROUND GRAR GRAR GRAR") and then realized...shit, this is just the way it is. I'm sure there were aging hipsters complaining about all the bands *they* ripped off at the time. So it goes!
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
A while back I was reading an article about all the current bands who were influenced by The Strokes, started flipping out ("WHAT THE HELL THIS ARTICLE DOESN'T EVEN *MENTION* TELEVISION OR THE VELVET UNDERGROUND GRAR GRAR GRAR") and then realized...shit, this is just the way it is. I'm sure there were aging hipsters complaining about all the bands *they* ripped off at the time. So it goes!
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I hardly ever agree with these kinds of rankings, but this one was surprisingly good. I think he rates the songs from Innocent Man too high and the songs from Nylon Curtain too low, but that could be just because I hate doo-wop.
posted by Daily Alice at 6:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 6:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Vulture.com music critic Cristopher Bonanos spent the last three months immersed in Billy Joel's back catalogue.
Okay, on that lede picture, I have a question. Is that a particularly odd beard, a particularly oddly focused spotlight, or a particularly bad photoshop job?
posted by eriko at 6:25 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Okay, on that lede picture, I have a question. Is that a particularly odd beard, a particularly oddly focused spotlight, or a particularly bad photoshop job?
posted by eriko at 6:25 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Pretty low ranking (80) for "Don't Ask Me Why," considering it contains Billy Joel's finest lyric:
You are still a victim of the accidents you leave
As sure as I'm a victim desire
But then I have a nostalgic soft spot for Glass Houses.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:25 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
You are still a victim of the accidents you leave
As sure as I'm a victim desire
But then I have a nostalgic soft spot for Glass Houses.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:25 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Although I have frankly wretched taste in music (like, I really cannot wait for the extremely brief electroclash revival that's due soon), I feel confident in saying that all of these songs are terrible, just terrible.
....I'd place you at about #67 on my personal ranking list of "Metafilters' 'Your Favorite Band Sucks' Comments".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [20 favorites]
....I'd place you at about #67 on my personal ranking list of "Metafilters' 'Your Favorite Band Sucks' Comments".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [20 favorites]
"Downeaster Alexa" is excellent, easily the most underrated Billy Joel song.
It's a great song hampered by very dated production. Should be rerecorded, IMHO.
posted by eriko at 6:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's a great song hampered by very dated production. Should be rerecorded, IMHO.
posted by eriko at 6:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
One of my favorite memories from middle school is of 4 Italian choir boys singing "heart attack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack" in the locker room showers. It was spontaneous and silly and they blew the doors off that song.
Moving Out had a special appeal to a bunch of nude 12 year old boys.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 6:34 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Moving Out had a special appeal to a bunch of nude 12 year old boys.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 6:34 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
A summer or two ago, I found myself driving from one end of Wisconsin to the other. Out of curiosity, I started flipping through stations on the car radio. Holy crap, there was a lot of Billy Joel being played. My anecdotal breakdown would run: 75% Billy Joel, 20% classic rock/biker chick rock, 5% everything else. (Okay, bit of an exaggeration, but that's what it seemed like.)
I'm in a demographic where late 70s/early 80s mainstream stuff has nostalgia appeal that sometimes overcomes other considerations of taste or aging hipness, but it's hard for me to listen to "oldies" when Billy Joel is so overplayed on the playlist.
posted by gimonca at 6:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm in a demographic where late 70s/early 80s mainstream stuff has nostalgia appeal that sometimes overcomes other considerations of taste or aging hipness, but it's hard for me to listen to "oldies" when Billy Joel is so overplayed on the playlist.
posted by gimonca at 6:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have never been much of a Billy Joel fan, but dating a pianist as a teenager made me reasonably familiar with Joel's oeuvre, and I was heartbroken to see my favorite song rank way down here:
86. “A Matter of Trust,” The Bridge
Closest thing he’s ever made to a Queen-style stadium anthem to play at sporting events, with a chorus that benefits from a lot of people singing along. Hard not to get swept up, even if it’s kinda bombastic on the album. Fun song in concert; cheesier at home.
Maybe it's because I'm not from the tri-state area, but I don't know that I've ever been in a situation where a roomful of people knew the words to this song, much less actually had a big sing-along with it. I think it's great alone at home, and also for singing in one's car. Anyway, If the worst that can be said about this song is that it's bombastic and cheesy, then it should have been part of a giant multi-way tie.
posted by naoko at 6:39 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
86. “A Matter of Trust,” The Bridge
Closest thing he’s ever made to a Queen-style stadium anthem to play at sporting events, with a chorus that benefits from a lot of people singing along. Hard not to get swept up, even if it’s kinda bombastic on the album. Fun song in concert; cheesier at home.
Maybe it's because I'm not from the tri-state area, but I don't know that I've ever been in a situation where a roomful of people knew the words to this song, much less actually had a big sing-along with it. I think it's great alone at home, and also for singing in one's car. Anyway, If the worst that can be said about this song is that it's bombastic and cheesy, then it should have been part of a giant multi-way tie.
posted by naoko at 6:39 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I feel about Billy Joel songs the way I feel about show tunes
Me too. Ie they're heck of a lot of fun at the right time and I respect how much they mean to certain people.
I very nearly spit out my Budweiser! Well played, fellows.
posted by dr_dank at 6:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Me too. Ie they're heck of a lot of fun at the right time and I respect how much they mean to certain people.
I very nearly spit out my Budweiser! Well played, fellows.
posted by dr_dank at 6:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
The writer states that "It's Still Rock 'n' Roll to Me," has no sax, which suggests that a) He didn't listen as closely as he let on, and b) He hasn't listened to American Top 40 or oldies hits radio over the past three decades or more, ever, or however long the writer of this piece has been alive. For gosh sakes, did he ever go into a restaurant or bar that plays current or past hits? You could have picked the sax solo knowledge up via osmosis, already, if you weren't a hermit or hearing impaired.
posted by raysmj at 6:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by raysmj at 6:40 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
As I started reading the list I was thinking "Hey, this whole thing is in reverse order" but then I realized that I like nearly all of his stuff for various reasons (for some reason I never was a big fan of An Innocent Man). I don't understand the hate. It's pretty easy to avoid these days and I listen to music I don't care for in stores and elevators without telling everybody in earshot how much it sucks.
When I was a kid my mom was into The Mamas & The Papas and Bee Gees, my dad was into Elton and Springsteen, I was into Queen and early punk, but we all met in the middle on Billy Joel. We went to see him several times as a family including grandparents and siblings and later friends and boyfriends/girlfriends. We all had a great time. Billy Joel is the soundtrack of my high school dating life. They played him a bunch at the beach when I was a lifeguard. I can still listen to every last one of these and have precise memories come back instantly. Good memories. That's more than I can say for a lot of my younger life. So hate on 'They're all tied for 121'-ers - to me 100 are tied for #1 and then the rest of the list starts.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 6:43 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
When I was a kid my mom was into The Mamas & The Papas and Bee Gees, my dad was into Elton and Springsteen, I was into Queen and early punk, but we all met in the middle on Billy Joel. We went to see him several times as a family including grandparents and siblings and later friends and boyfriends/girlfriends. We all had a great time. Billy Joel is the soundtrack of my high school dating life. They played him a bunch at the beach when I was a lifeguard. I can still listen to every last one of these and have precise memories come back instantly. Good memories. That's more than I can say for a lot of my younger life. So hate on 'They're all tied for 121'-ers - to me 100 are tied for #1 and then the rest of the list starts.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 6:43 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
"We Didn't Start The Fire" was given too favorable a ranking.
posted by mcstayinskool at 6:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mcstayinskool at 6:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
eriko: I've come to the conclusion that Billy Joel's live albums age best. I usually attribute it to better energy, but lack of production polish is probably a big factor as well.
I'd suggest the 12 Gardens album as a good one that covers a lot of ground, and includes "Downeaster Alexa". I haven't listened to it in a while, so I can't vouch for the performance of that song in particular, but check it out.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:08 AM on February 4, 2015
I'd suggest the 12 Gardens album as a good one that covers a lot of ground, and includes "Downeaster Alexa". I haven't listened to it in a while, so I can't vouch for the performance of that song in particular, but check it out.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:08 AM on February 4, 2015
I can still listen to every last one of these and have precise memories come back instantly.
Oddly, that's how I view Joel as well, but not as favorably -- as a time capsule of a specific time and place. It's as if young Billy was given an assignment -- "write a high school three-act play about what it's like growing up in New York in the 60s and 70s" -- and he's never stopped writing it. Which is why I'm amused that #1 is what it is because it literally IS a three-act play about reminiscence.
It's not that he's devoid of occasional insight or a nice turn of phrase, but he's very narrowly defined. Which, if you can relate to a show-tunesy version of 1970s Long Island, is just fine, but for a lot of the rest of us it's like "yeah, it's great that you've been writing and rewriting your autobiography for forty years but, um, I don't remember telling you that I wanted to hear it."
posted by delfin at 7:19 AM on February 4, 2015
Oddly, that's how I view Joel as well, but not as favorably -- as a time capsule of a specific time and place. It's as if young Billy was given an assignment -- "write a high school three-act play about what it's like growing up in New York in the 60s and 70s" -- and he's never stopped writing it. Which is why I'm amused that #1 is what it is because it literally IS a three-act play about reminiscence.
It's not that he's devoid of occasional insight or a nice turn of phrase, but he's very narrowly defined. Which, if you can relate to a show-tunesy version of 1970s Long Island, is just fine, but for a lot of the rest of us it's like "yeah, it's great that you've been writing and rewriting your autobiography for forty years but, um, I don't remember telling you that I wanted to hear it."
posted by delfin at 7:19 AM on February 4, 2015
I propose that one of you propose a MeFi meetup at Bonnaroo 2015!!!! I'll be busy this year, can't make it. Don't get me wrong, though, I would LOVE to be Erowid trip-reporting/recruiting on mushrooms when BJ goes from "I never said I was a victim of circumstance" into "I still belong, don't get me wrong". That moment would be perfect; 'We haven't spoken before, but I was still aware however, still alive to witness my imprisonment.'
posted by mean square error at 7:22 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mean square error at 7:22 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's way too forgiving of cheese like Uptown Girl
that bridge though
posted by Sys Rq at 7:25 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
that bridge though
posted by Sys Rq at 7:25 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Goddam right, "Sleeping with the television on" (#4). it's the song i play the Billy Joel haters in my world.
You may want to reconsider that move. I did not like that song. No sir.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
You may want to reconsider that move. I did not like that song. No sir.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I like music that's a little cheezey (even to the extent of appreciating Gordon Lightfoot), value showmanship, and put a premium on a good melody. Billy Joel is the guy for me.
You see, I do, too. I dig the shit out of Gordon Lightfoot. I like Neil Diamond. I even like a little Barry Manilow now and then. But Joel, for some reason, leaves me cold. I like the idea of Billy Joel much better than I like the actual thing. I tried to articulate this back here, but I don't think I actually got to the root of my feelings about Billy Joel. I don't hate him, I just find him vaguely annoying. I'm sure if I tried I could rank his songs from most to least annoying and on to the few that I actually like.
One of which is "Captain Jack." Which I like partly because of its bouquet of boys locker room and partly because of the Captain Jack statue in Charlotte, NC (celebrating James Jack, deliverer of the Mecklenburg Declarations to the Continental Congress. Whether he could get you high, I do not know, but I like to think so.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
You see, I do, too. I dig the shit out of Gordon Lightfoot. I like Neil Diamond. I even like a little Barry Manilow now and then. But Joel, for some reason, leaves me cold. I like the idea of Billy Joel much better than I like the actual thing. I tried to articulate this back here, but I don't think I actually got to the root of my feelings about Billy Joel. I don't hate him, I just find him vaguely annoying. I'm sure if I tried I could rank his songs from most to least annoying and on to the few that I actually like.
One of which is "Captain Jack." Which I like partly because of its bouquet of boys locker room and partly because of the Captain Jack statue in Charlotte, NC (celebrating James Jack, deliverer of the Mecklenburg Declarations to the Continental Congress. Whether he could get you high, I do not know, but I like to think so.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:29 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Billy Joel playing harmonica kind of looks like a dying Darth Vader.
posted by HeroZero at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
stuff like watching people discover that there were R.E.M. albums before "Green"
On a related note, I first truly realized I was growing old when an online acquaintance referred to "Can't Help Falling In Love" as "that UB40 song".
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:33 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
On a related note, I first truly realized I was growing old when an online acquaintance referred to "Can't Help Falling In Love" as "that UB40 song".
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:33 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'd never realized until now that Rufus Wainwright is basically a baroque-ier Billie Joel.
posted by Flashman at 7:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 7:38 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Rufus Wainwright is the love-child of Billy Joel and Lewis Furey.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:46 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by octobersurprise at 7:46 AM on February 4, 2015
I want to thank pb for the new site functionality that revives the "Billy Joel sucks / rocks" thread on a monthly basis.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:49 AM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:49 AM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
It's called "Recent Ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-acktivity"
posted by cortex at 7:56 AM on February 4, 2015 [38 favorites]
posted by cortex at 7:56 AM on February 4, 2015 [38 favorites]
They did that? I was too busy declawing my cat with improper pronouns to notice.
Now pass me that Budweiser so I can bike 21 miles to work while OH SHIT I'VE GONE CROSSEYED.
posted by dr_dank at 8:01 AM on February 4, 2015
Now pass me that Budweiser so I can bike 21 miles to work while OH SHIT I'VE GONE CROSSEYED.
posted by dr_dank at 8:01 AM on February 4, 2015
My wife and I have the "Elton John vs. Billy Joel" debate a lot. She thinks Piano Man is cheesy and terrible, but I love it and a lot of that old stuff. Disclaimer: I think of "Storm Front" as the "new" Billy Joel that I don't like and it's from what, 1990? But up until that time he cranked out a huge number of terrific memorable tunes. The Stranger is a fantastic album and requires me to whistle loudly during the title track.
As for Elton, Rocket Man is good and ... eh. Not a fan of "Levon" although I love the Band and Levon Helm. It's not a competition I guess, but more of Elton's stuff feels formulaic to me. For both of those guys the early stuff is the best.
posted by freecellwizard at 8:06 AM on February 4, 2015
As for Elton, Rocket Man is good and ... eh. Not a fan of "Levon" although I love the Band and Levon Helm. It's not a competition I guess, but more of Elton's stuff feels formulaic to me. For both of those guys the early stuff is the best.
posted by freecellwizard at 8:06 AM on February 4, 2015
"We Didn't Start the Fire" is Billy Joel's equivalent to "I Just Called to Say I Love You", a great artist's worst song which unfortunately also happens to be one of his most widely recognized and well associated. As a huge fan of both guys, these songs are so frustrating because it puts me in the unenviable position of having to do the "No, no, no, I agree, that song is awful, but trust me, his OTHER ones are great..." defense of why I'm such a fan when talking to people who only know them for these well known works.
I get the sense that some people like to loudly proclaim that they aren't Joel fans because he seems very light and frivolous in comparison with some of his rawer and deeper peers (like Springsteeen, I guess). I don't know, though. I came across "Scenes From an Italian Restaurant" when I was a teenager and it definitely helped shape my worldview. The song's message of "Adulthood is realizing that everything in life is more disappointing than you imagined and one soul crushing failure after another" I can't help but think helped turned me into the cynical, pessimistic adult I've become.
posted by The Gooch at 8:08 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
I get the sense that some people like to loudly proclaim that they aren't Joel fans because he seems very light and frivolous in comparison with some of his rawer and deeper peers (like Springsteeen, I guess). I don't know, though. I came across "Scenes From an Italian Restaurant" when I was a teenager and it definitely helped shape my worldview. The song's message of "Adulthood is realizing that everything in life is more disappointing than you imagined and one soul crushing failure after another" I can't help but think helped turned me into the cynical, pessimistic adult I've become.
posted by The Gooch at 8:08 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
The song's message of "Adulthood is realizing that everything in life is more disappointing than you imagined and one soul crushing failure after another" I can't help but think helped turned me into the cynical, pessimistic adult I've become.
You should let Mr. Joel know about the good work his art has done out in the world.
posted by Area Man at 8:10 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
You should let Mr. Joel know about the good work his art has done out in the world.
posted by Area Man at 8:10 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Homer You know, my kids think you're the greatest. And thanks to your gloomy music, they've finally stopped dreaming of a future I can't possibly provide.
Billy Corgan: Well, we try to make a difference.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 AM on February 4, 2015 [11 favorites]
Billy Corgan: Well, we try to make a difference.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 AM on February 4, 2015 [11 favorites]
I am sorry to see Cold Spring Harbor get so little love. It's Joel full of the passion and life that he loses and finds again and again over the years. I love that album.
(Ignoring the poor mastering job that takes his voice up a pitch and a half, of course.)
posted by blurker at 8:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Ignoring the poor mastering job that takes his voice up a pitch and a half, of course.)
posted by blurker at 8:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I agree with Areaman above. "And So It Goes" is my favorite Billy Joel Song. It's so simple and emotional- even for a song on unrequited love. Should be much higher on that list.
posted by rancher at 8:24 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by rancher at 8:24 AM on February 4, 2015
I have mixed feelings about Billy Joel: some of his songs I just can't stand, others I really enjoy, but they still have something about them that doesn't work. "An Innocent Man" is one of the few that doesn't clunk for me, so I'm glad to see that one ranked so highly.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:27 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:27 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
The definitive Miami 2017, performed Oct 20, 2001 at MSG (and followed by #3 on the list)
posted by MOWOG at 8:30 AM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by MOWOG at 8:30 AM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
Damn that song is hilarious.
BEFORE THE MAFIA TOOK OVER MEXICO
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:34 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
BEFORE THE MAFIA TOOK OVER MEXICO
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:34 AM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
To all the Billy haters: I don't come into your threads about insufferable and untalented indie and punk bands and tell you how insufferable and untalented they are.
This is a relatively good list, although the absolute worst Billy Joel song is "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" - ugh. As a general rule, Glass Houses and Nylon Curtain should be farther up the list, and Innocent Man and The Bridge and River of Dreams should be lower. Still, "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant", "Vienna", and "Miami 2017" are correctly in the top 10.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is a relatively good list, although the absolute worst Billy Joel song is "Say Goodbye to Hollywood" - ugh. As a general rule, Glass Houses and Nylon Curtain should be farther up the list, and Innocent Man and The Bridge and River of Dreams should be lower. Still, "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant", "Vienna", and "Miami 2017" are correctly in the top 10.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have been thwarted in my efforts to find a recording of this, but: This past weekend I saw a gig by a band that does bluegrass covers of 80's hits. It's better than you think that sounds - they were doing things like "Money for Nothing", which is already pretty bluesy, but they also did things like "Rockit" and "She Blinded Me With Science".
And they also did just the "prelude" part to Prelude/Angry Young Man. On banjo and fiddle and mandolin and such; and it sounded awesome.
And god help me, it gave me enough of a flashback back to when I was taking piano lessons in junior high and was on an all-Billy diet that I was playing air piano.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
And they also did just the "prelude" part to Prelude/Angry Young Man. On banjo and fiddle and mandolin and such; and it sounded awesome.
And god help me, it gave me enough of a flashback back to when I was taking piano lessons in junior high and was on an all-Billy diet that I was playing air piano.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
I am 29 years old. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life. I have made some bad decisions, as we youngsters are wont to do. I try to treat every bad decision in my life as a learning experience, not as something I regret. In fact, I would say that I have no regrets in my life, save one.
Billy Joel & Elton John performed together in my city about 4 years ago, and I didn't go.
I
DIDN'T
GOOOOOOOO!
That same night was closing night of a play in which I was the lead character. I should've just dashed over to the concert right after the curtain closed, but I merely accepted my fate.
And it haunts me. It's literally my only regret in life. Fortunately, he's coming back to our fair city on his next tour later this year. I bought my tickets 3 minutes after they went on sale. $150/piece, front and center. Worth every penny.
I have been enamored by Billy Joel ever since I heard 'Movin' Out' on an American Express commercial highlighting the musical of the same name. I think it was on Broadway some time in the mid 90s? It was one of the first songs I taught myself to play when I got my own piano years later. I remember being lulled to sleep as a kid listening to "She's Always a Woman" when my mom listened to the adult-contemporary station. I remember singing a hauntingly beautiful acapella version of "And So It Goes" in high school chamber choir.
When I went through a bad break-up and subsequent emotional breakdown a few years ago, I found great comfort in "I Love You Just the Way You Are" & "All About Soul". At the darkest point of this particular time of my life, I listened to "Uptown Girl" at least 11 times a day: thrice on my morning commute, thrice back home, and a few more times interspersed throughout the day for good measure. Something about the dense vocal harmonies in the song evoked a much-needed sense of joy and "hallelujah!" in me. I can't quite explain. Whenever I listen to 'Goodnight Saigon' & 'Lullaby', I think of my father, who has been in Afghanistan & Iraq for the past 5 years.
Billy Joel has provided the soundtrack for my entire life and I'm delighted and inspired by his incredible body of work. I still really hate Piano Man, though.
posted by chara at 8:44 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Billy Joel & Elton John performed together in my city about 4 years ago, and I didn't go.
I
DIDN'T
GOOOOOOOO!
That same night was closing night of a play in which I was the lead character. I should've just dashed over to the concert right after the curtain closed, but I merely accepted my fate.
And it haunts me. It's literally my only regret in life. Fortunately, he's coming back to our fair city on his next tour later this year. I bought my tickets 3 minutes after they went on sale. $150/piece, front and center. Worth every penny.
I have been enamored by Billy Joel ever since I heard 'Movin' Out' on an American Express commercial highlighting the musical of the same name. I think it was on Broadway some time in the mid 90s? It was one of the first songs I taught myself to play when I got my own piano years later. I remember being lulled to sleep as a kid listening to "She's Always a Woman" when my mom listened to the adult-contemporary station. I remember singing a hauntingly beautiful acapella version of "And So It Goes" in high school chamber choir.
When I went through a bad break-up and subsequent emotional breakdown a few years ago, I found great comfort in "I Love You Just the Way You Are" & "All About Soul". At the darkest point of this particular time of my life, I listened to "Uptown Girl" at least 11 times a day: thrice on my morning commute, thrice back home, and a few more times interspersed throughout the day for good measure. Something about the dense vocal harmonies in the song evoked a much-needed sense of joy and "hallelujah!" in me. I can't quite explain. Whenever I listen to 'Goodnight Saigon' & 'Lullaby', I think of my father, who has been in Afghanistan & Iraq for the past 5 years.
Billy Joel has provided the soundtrack for my entire life and I'm delighted and inspired by his incredible body of work. I still really hate Piano Man, though.
posted by chara at 8:44 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
As someone who inexplicably ADORED "Lullaby" as a teenager (while my classmates listened to their boy bands and such), I may lack the critical ear needed to weigh in on this ranking.
posted by redsparkler at 8:54 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by redsparkler at 8:54 AM on February 4, 2015
Hard to believe it's only two more years until we discover what happens to New York City. Is it aliens? I've always suspected aliens.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is a true story. The first time I heard "Piano Man" on the radio back in the 1970s, I thought to myself: John Denver is really picking up his game.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:59 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
Billy Joel is, for me, a lot like Stephen King: an artist I consumed voraciously when I was young but now find unsophisticated and a bit tiresome. I'll always love both of them for what they gave me when I needed it but can't really engage anymore.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:03 AM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:03 AM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
I saw the Billy Joel /Elton John concert in Chicago many years ago. If memory serves, they started the show by each playing one of the others' songs. It was great.
Worth reading just to find out gossip that Uptown Girl was REALLY about Elle McPherson, not Christie Brinkley.
posted by wittgenstein at 9:05 AM on February 4, 2015
Worth reading just to find out gossip that Uptown Girl was REALLY about Elle McPherson, not Christie Brinkley.
posted by wittgenstein at 9:05 AM on February 4, 2015
I've always respected how he'd tweak the lyrics to make them more topical. In Miami 2017 played during the Hurricane Sandy telethon,the second couplet of "they turned our power down / and drove us underground" became "Staten Island drowned" for an unexpected gut punch.
posted by dr_dank at 9:07 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by dr_dank at 9:07 AM on February 4, 2015
That recent NY-er profile was a really good read. I had already come to have grudging respect for Joel, and it was therein confirmed.
posted by thelonius at 9:13 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by thelonius at 9:13 AM on February 4, 2015
I scrolled straight to #1 to find out if it confirmed my opinion. It does.
posted by matildaben at 9:14 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by matildaben at 9:14 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
chara: "Billy Joel & Elton John performed together in my city about 4 years ago, and I didn't go."
As a college freshman, there was a concert on campus, but I hadn't heard of any of the bands, so I didn't go.
The lineup: Smashing Pumpkins/Pearl Jam/Nirvana.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:15 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
As a college freshman, there was a concert on campus, but I hadn't heard of any of the bands, so I didn't go.
The lineup: Smashing Pumpkins/Pearl Jam/Nirvana.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:15 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
I really wish I could put my finger on exactly why Billy Joel sputtered and coughed to this tarnished point. There doesn't seem to be an answer.
I recall an interview of his where he pointed out that some of his contemporaries went in new and different directions -- for example, Paul Simon into world music, Randy Newman into film. I think that's the closest explanation, that he never stretched beyond a certain point. But it's still not quite right.
Sigh. I can only dream that he'll find a new muse, because he's an excellent writer when he wants to be.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:21 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I recall an interview of his where he pointed out that some of his contemporaries went in new and different directions -- for example, Paul Simon into world music, Randy Newman into film. I think that's the closest explanation, that he never stretched beyond a certain point. But it's still not quite right.
Sigh. I can only dream that he'll find a new muse, because he's an excellent writer when he wants to be.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:21 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Pressure" needs to be higher.
That's all I got.
posted by Lucinda at 9:21 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
That's all I got.
posted by Lucinda at 9:21 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Billy Joel is the guy for me. (I also like Neil Diamond. Go figure.)
posted by Area Man at 9:11 AM on February 4 [+] [!]
Area Man Likes Joel, Diamond
posted by The Bellman at 9:22 AM on February 4, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by Area Man at 9:11 AM on February 4 [+] [!]
Area Man Likes Joel, Diamond
posted by The Bellman at 9:22 AM on February 4, 2015 [21 favorites]
"We Didn't Start the Fire" is Billy Joel's equivalent to "I Just Called to Say I Love You", a great artist's worst song which unfortunately also happens to be one of his most widely recognized and well associated.
Imagine for a moment that you are Bobby McFerrin.
posted by Herodios at 9:35 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Imagine for a moment that you are Bobby McFerrin.
posted by Herodios at 9:35 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Y'all understand that songs that use first person pronouns don't always refer to the songwriter, right?
posted by clvrmnky at 9:36 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by clvrmnky at 9:36 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nice to see An Innocent Man high on that list.
The recording quality on that song is stunning; check it out on good equipment with excellent speakers/headphones.
posted by CrowGoat at 9:45 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
The recording quality on that song is stunning; check it out on good equipment with excellent speakers/headphones.
posted by CrowGoat at 9:45 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
> To all the Billy haters: I don't come into your threads about insufferable and untalented indie and punk bands and tell you how insufferable and untalented they are.
But you could, and the fans of those bands would probably shrug it off.
*stares*
You're new on the Internet, I take it?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:48 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
But you could, and the fans of those bands would probably shrug it off.
*stares*
You're new on the Internet, I take it?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:48 AM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't have to "believe" it, I've seen it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:02 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:02 AM on February 4, 2015
Maybe just follow the guideline of "don't be a dick"?
posted by Chrysostom at 10:03 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by Chrysostom at 10:03 AM on February 4, 2015
What is it about Billy Joel where any mention of not liking Billy Joel gets fans all riled up?
Billy Joel fans are commonly narcissistic Boomers. How could you possibly question their taste? It's obviously right if they like it.
posted by hwyengr at 10:05 AM on February 4, 2015
Billy Joel fans are commonly narcissistic Boomers. How could you possibly question their taste? It's obviously right if they like it.
posted by hwyengr at 10:05 AM on February 4, 2015
This seems like an appropriate place to share the one party trick in my oeuvre: I can sing (or recite, if you prefer) the entirety of "We didn't Start the Fire". I'm so sorry
Even among people who do not particularly like Billy Joel, this seems to be found rather impressive.
Whatever else you can say about it, that song fills a niche every generation seems to find a song to fill: "that song that isn't really that great but gets played a lot anyway because most people only know four words to it and will shout them really loudly when they come up in the song" (cf also "Louie Louie" and "It's the End of the World (as we know it)").
posted by Hold your seahorses at 10:09 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Even among people who do not particularly like Billy Joel, this seems to be found rather impressive.
Whatever else you can say about it, that song fills a niche every generation seems to find a song to fill: "that song that isn't really that great but gets played a lot anyway because most people only know four words to it and will shout them really loudly when they come up in the song" (cf also "Louie Louie" and "It's the End of the World (as we know it)").
posted by Hold your seahorses at 10:09 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Huh. I once waded into a Favorite Artist thread on MetaFilter (about Billy Joel, as a matter of fact) with a less-than-complimentary comment, and it was shrugged off. Later, in the same thread, in response to someone who didn't understand the source of ciritics' hate for Joel, I responded with a summary of some of the arguments I'd read. When I mentioned my personal reason for finding the lyrics to one of Joel's songs offensive, someone else provided an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. Other than my being a dick right off the bat (from which I learned not to be so), I found it to be a valuable and enlightening discussion.
posted by ogooglebar at 10:14 AM on February 4, 2015
posted by ogooglebar at 10:14 AM on February 4, 2015
Billy Joel fans are commonly narcissistic Boomers. How could you possibly question their taste? It's obviously right if they like it.
As with many similar comments on Metafilter, this one communicates more about you than it does about either the subject at hand or the object of your resentments.
posted by Herodios at 10:18 AM on February 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
As with many similar comments on Metafilter, this one communicates more about you than it does about either the subject at hand or the object of your resentments.
posted by Herodios at 10:18 AM on February 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
I think the thing that most people misunderstand about Joel is the same thing they misunderstand about most members of the Blank generation. This is especially true for, judging by when he graduated from college, Reconstructionists like Bonanos. The old ways that had held for almost a century fell apart as people of Joel's cohort were coming of age. I think that's something that Joel expresses very well in his music.
All of which is to say, that "The Great Suburban Showdown" deserves to be much higher, but Bonanos apparently can't understand the sentiment.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
All of which is to say, that "The Great Suburban Showdown" deserves to be much higher, but Bonanos apparently can't understand the sentiment.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:19 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
1) I will always love And So It Goes for being the right song for me during one of those amicable but terrible one-sided break-ups where I was ready to get married but the spark was gone for her and she moved on. I might as well have painted this lyric on my living room wall:
So I would choose to be with you
That's if the choice were mine to make
But you can make decisions too
And you can have this heart to break
2) As an oldish Dad of young, young kids, Lullaby basically kills me every time I hear it. I'm not going to be around for as much of their lives as my parents have been for mine. When they are my age, I'll either be dead or really close to it. The second half of the song hits me hard.
And like a boat out on the ocean
I'm rocking you to sleep
The water's dark and deep inside this ancient heart
You'll always be a part of me
Goodnight my angel, now it's time to dream
And dream how wonderful your life will be
Someday your child may cry, and if you sing this lullabye
Then in your heart, there will always be a part of me
Someday we'll all be gone, but lullabyes go on and on
They never die, that's how you and I will be.
There are other Joel songs I like and some I hate, but those two have really stayed with me. They might be overly sentimental, but I am, too, so it works.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
So I would choose to be with you
That's if the choice were mine to make
But you can make decisions too
And you can have this heart to break
2) As an oldish Dad of young, young kids, Lullaby basically kills me every time I hear it. I'm not going to be around for as much of their lives as my parents have been for mine. When they are my age, I'll either be dead or really close to it. The second half of the song hits me hard.
And like a boat out on the ocean
I'm rocking you to sleep
The water's dark and deep inside this ancient heart
You'll always be a part of me
Goodnight my angel, now it's time to dream
And dream how wonderful your life will be
Someday your child may cry, and if you sing this lullabye
Then in your heart, there will always be a part of me
Someday we'll all be gone, but lullabyes go on and on
They never die, that's how you and I will be.
There are other Joel songs I like and some I hate, but those two have really stayed with me. They might be overly sentimental, but I am, too, so it works.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
As a teen, I knew "Piano Man" and "Captain Jack" first (not personally), then jumped ahead to the then-new hits like "Italian Restaurant." It was only years later that I revisited his early albums, avoiding "PM" and "CJ," which I'd grown to dislike intensely, and found some excellent songs that I thought equal to or better than his hits.
TL;DR version: "The Entertainer" is Mr. Joel's best song. Favorite stanza:
I am the entertainer, I've come to do my show
You've heard my latest record, it's been on the radio
It took me years to write it, they were the best years of my life
It was a beautiful song but it ran too long
If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05
posted by the sobsister at 10:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
TL;DR version: "The Entertainer" is Mr. Joel's best song. Favorite stanza:
I am the entertainer, I've come to do my show
You've heard my latest record, it's been on the radio
It took me years to write it, they were the best years of my life
It was a beautiful song but it ran too long
If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05
posted by the sobsister at 10:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
What is it about Billy Joel where any mention of not liking Billy Joel gets fans all riled up? I mean, it's like being a fan of the Eagles: part of the deal is being able to accept that other people totally don't care for those songs, probably for the exact same reasons that you love those songs.
It's just tactless. Doesn't matter if it's Billy Joel or anything else. If people are having a discussion about the comparable merits of the films of Kubrick, or the songs of Dylan, or the books of Stephen King, or whatever, it's just plain rude to walk over and say "that guy sucks." Do you think at this point that Billy Joel fans don't know that there are a ton of people out there who think Billy Joel sucks? Is your opinion supposed to illuminate us in some way? What is the point?
Billy Joel fans are commonly narcissistic Boomers. How could you possibly question their taste? It's obviously right if they like it.
Not a Boomer. Thanks for playing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's just tactless. Doesn't matter if it's Billy Joel or anything else. If people are having a discussion about the comparable merits of the films of Kubrick, or the songs of Dylan, or the books of Stephen King, or whatever, it's just plain rude to walk over and say "that guy sucks." Do you think at this point that Billy Joel fans don't know that there are a ton of people out there who think Billy Joel sucks? Is your opinion supposed to illuminate us in some way? What is the point?
Billy Joel fans are commonly narcissistic Boomers. How could you possibly question their taste? It's obviously right if they like it.
Not a Boomer. Thanks for playing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:23 AM on February 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Also, did BJ give all his royalties from "Uptown Girl" to Frankie Valli?
Because there's "hommage,'" and there's "obvious bite."
posted by the sobsister at 10:27 AM on February 4, 2015
Because there's "hommage,'" and there's "obvious bite."
posted by the sobsister at 10:27 AM on February 4, 2015
Glad to see Scenes from an Italian Restaurant and Vienna so high on the list. I'd rank Piano Man higher because it's such a vivid song and made his career really, but I understand some people hate it. (Joel's Q&A response on how he feels about the song now was pretty funny, I thought -- the melody is redundant and the lyrics are really a limerick, so I can almost see why people would rank it low. Still. Joel's description of where the lyrics to the song came from -- everybody was basically a real person exactly as described, except the old man was not actually making love to his drink -- was also fun I thought.) So It Goes is a lovely song and I would rank it higher, certainly higher than Leave a Tender Moment, but mostly I thought this list was well done.
posted by onlyconnect at 10:37 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by onlyconnect at 10:37 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Y'all understand that songs that use first person pronouns don't always refer to the songwriter, right?
Of course. (I am not American so I cannot watch SNL stuff on the internet so I assume I'm linking to what I want here)
"And So It Goes" is right up there because I love the harmonic tension. Then there's the greatest hits stuff that we listened to on 500-mile family trips so it's just baked in to that time and place and means a lot to me.
posted by sylvanshine at 10:37 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Of course. (I am not American so I cannot watch SNL stuff on the internet so I assume I'm linking to what I want here)
"And So It Goes" is right up there because I love the harmonic tension. Then there's the greatest hits stuff that we listened to on 500-mile family trips so it's just baked in to that time and place and means a lot to me.
posted by sylvanshine at 10:37 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the thing that most people misunderstand about Joel is the same thing they misunderstand about most members of the Blank generation.
I think the thing people need to stop doing is generalizing about "generations" and just dig what's happening while it's happening.
Yes! You should be diggin' it while it's happening
'Cuz it just might be a
one
shot
deal . . .
posted by Herodios at 10:40 AM on February 4, 2015
I think the thing people need to stop doing is generalizing about "generations" and just dig what's happening while it's happening.
Yes! You should be diggin' it while it's happening
'Cuz it just might be a
one
shot
deal . . .
posted by Herodios at 10:40 AM on February 4, 2015
Pater Aletheias: As an oldish Dad of young, young kids, Lullaby basically kills me every time I hear it. I'm not going to be around for as much of their lives as my parents have been for mine. When they are my age, I'll either be dead or really close to it. The second half of the song hits me hard.
I've always found this song especially sad because it sounds to me like he knew that he and Christie Brinkley were headed for divorce, and the lyrics always sounded to me like he was assuring his daughter that he'd always be there for her even if he and her mom split up. *sniffles*
the sobsister: TL;DR version: "The Entertainer" is Mr. Joel's best song.
Enjoy this cool early live version.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:53 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've always found this song especially sad because it sounds to me like he knew that he and Christie Brinkley were headed for divorce, and the lyrics always sounded to me like he was assuring his daughter that he'd always be there for her even if he and her mom split up. *sniffles*
the sobsister: TL;DR version: "The Entertainer" is Mr. Joel's best song.
Enjoy this cool early live version.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:53 AM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've always found [Lullaby] especially sad because it sounds to me like he knew that he and Christie Brinkley were headed for divorce, and the lyrics always sounded to me like he was assuring his daughter that he'd always be there for her even if he and her mom split up.
He's confirmed that this is exactly the case.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:56 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's confirmed that this is exactly the case.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:56 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Speaking for myself, and I acknowledge that I may be projecting, I get annoyed at the "Billy Joel sucks", "All his songs are the worst ones, AMIRITE!" type comments that inevitably fill any discussion of his career, since it comes off to me as a form of hipsterdom, letting everyone in vicinity know that your own musical taste is of course far cooler, avant garde, and sophisticated than to like anything as bland and mainstream as Billy Joel. Otherwise, I sort of question why anyone would bother weighing in with such a simple "don't like him" comment, since it's not like we're taking a poll.
posted by The Gooch at 11:07 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Gooch at 11:07 AM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's confirmed that this is exactly the case.
*sooooooooob* Even he can't get through the song.
But goddammit what a beautiful song.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:31 AM on February 4, 2015
*sooooooooob* Even he can't get through the song.
But goddammit what a beautiful song.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:31 AM on February 4, 2015
"I think you're looking for the mondegreen thread, a few posts down..."
Actually I was riffing on the roadrunner/Mel Blanc story Scody told.
posted by notsnot at 11:57 AM on February 4, 2015
Actually I was riffing on the roadrunner/Mel Blanc story Scody told.
posted by notsnot at 11:57 AM on February 4, 2015
This is a pet peeve of mine and I'm going to try and be gentle.
"Even his gems contain glaring flaws just at the level of song craft -- weak rhymes, cliches, hackneyed metaphors, forced narratives. "
You just described flaws with his lyrics--I'll grant that. But you do understand that there's something called "music" that is also part of a song as well, yes? I could play all of you the bridge from "She's Always a Woman" on the piano and show you just how brilliant it is--you MetaFilter tech people would be able to appreciate the logic in the harmony, I guarantee it. It just takes a little bit of investment in understanding how music works. The general public is so staggeringly musically illiterate that most "music criticism" is just people criticizing lyrics because words are not abstract in the way music is. How many people here even know what a modulation is? Be honest.
I'm not trying to be all "oh I know Music Theory and my opinion is superior", especially since this is America and we can't spend money on such piddly things as music classes when there are new sports facilities to build. But people need to recognize that just because they listen to a lot of music that doesn't mean they are qualified to make judgements about the craft of music making. Go take some music appreciation classes.
posted by MattMangels at 12:18 PM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Even his gems contain glaring flaws just at the level of song craft -- weak rhymes, cliches, hackneyed metaphors, forced narratives. "
You just described flaws with his lyrics--I'll grant that. But you do understand that there's something called "music" that is also part of a song as well, yes? I could play all of you the bridge from "She's Always a Woman" on the piano and show you just how brilliant it is--you MetaFilter tech people would be able to appreciate the logic in the harmony, I guarantee it. It just takes a little bit of investment in understanding how music works. The general public is so staggeringly musically illiterate that most "music criticism" is just people criticizing lyrics because words are not abstract in the way music is. How many people here even know what a modulation is? Be honest.
I'm not trying to be all "oh I know Music Theory and my opinion is superior", especially since this is America and we can't spend money on such piddly things as music classes when there are new sports facilities to build. But people need to recognize that just because they listen to a lot of music that doesn't mean they are qualified to make judgements about the craft of music making. Go take some music appreciation classes.
posted by MattMangels at 12:18 PM on February 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
> except the old man was not actually making love to his drink
When I was ten Piano Man was one of my favourite songs in the world; it's still one of the few I remember how to play, 25 years after I stopped taking piano lessons. That said, I always hated that line. When I was a kid I thought it was gross, because ewwww, girls. Now it's gross because of the mental imagery. I get that it's a figure of speech, but just how much do you have to enjoy a drink for someone to look over at you and think you're "making love" to it?
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:23 PM on February 4, 2015
When I was ten Piano Man was one of my favourite songs in the world; it's still one of the few I remember how to play, 25 years after I stopped taking piano lessons. That said, I always hated that line. When I was a kid I thought it was gross, because ewwww, girls. Now it's gross because of the mental imagery. I get that it's a figure of speech, but just how much do you have to enjoy a drink for someone to look over at you and think you're "making love" to it?
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:23 PM on February 4, 2015
MattMangels: When evaluating a song, you have to take both the lyrics and the music into account. The confluence of the two is what makes it a song. So pointing out the descending circle of 5ths that is the bridge for "She's Always A Woman" does not negate criticism of the lyircs - it just means he is a far better composer than lyricist. People are entitled to their opinions.
TL;DR: Lyrics are an integral part of songcraft.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:30 PM on February 4, 2015
TL;DR: Lyrics are an integral part of songcraft.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:30 PM on February 4, 2015
When evaluating a song, you have to take both the lyrics and the music into account. The confluence of the two is what makes it a song. So pointing out the descending circle of 5ths that is the bridge for "She's Always A Woman" does not negate criticism of the lyircs - it just means he is a far better composer than lyricist. People are entitled to their opinions.
TL;DR: Lyrics are an integral part of songcraft.
MattMangels does not suggest that it is an either/or proposition. He says (and I agree) that many people are so musically illiterate that their criticism of music only involves their opinion of the lyrics.
Mediocre lyrics can be redeemed by a great melody or harmonic structure, and vice versa. The point is, evaluating the lyrics without at least understanding what is going on musically is incomplete criticism at best.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:48 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
TL;DR: Lyrics are an integral part of songcraft.
MattMangels does not suggest that it is an either/or proposition. He says (and I agree) that many people are so musically illiterate that their criticism of music only involves their opinion of the lyrics.
Mediocre lyrics can be redeemed by a great melody or harmonic structure, and vice versa. The point is, evaluating the lyrics without at least understanding what is going on musically is incomplete criticism at best.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:48 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Conclusion: Bily Joel is not real, but is just a tulpa created as a back corner of The Simpsons elbows its way into our reality.
And I, for one, welcome our three-fingered overlords.
posted by entropicamericana at 12:48 PM on February 4, 2015
And I, for one, welcome our three-fingered overlords.
posted by entropicamericana at 12:48 PM on February 4, 2015
I must post the 2006 tour journal of the Piano Men, "America's only five-member Billy Joel Tribute Band."
The Doogan’s stage was tiny, and could only accommodate four Billy Joels at one time. This meant Travis, who covers the entire post-Innocent Man B.J. catalog, had to watch the show from the audience. I hate making executive decisions like that, particularly since Travis has already (on numerous occasions) expressed a feeling of alienation from the rest of the Billys, but I had to be practical about it. I put it to Travis by asking him, “Who else should sit out tonight? Should I tell Terry to take a breather, then cut ‘Big Shot,’ ‘It’s Still Rock and Roll,’ and ‘Rosalinda’s Eyes’ from our set list just so you can perform ‘The Downeaster “Alexa”’?”posted by Iridic at 1:07 PM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Travis, of course, said yes, to which I responded, “You may be right, Travis, and I may be crazy!” Inside joke.
Otherwise, I sort of question why anyone would bother weighing in with such a simple "don't like him" comment, since it's not like we're taking a poll.
Because I couldn't sleep and because I thought I had found an almost clever way to describe how his music affects me.
Anyway, everyone - except for you ivory tower theory types - knows that electroclash was the pinnacle of musical development. Moreover, everyone can immediately tell that Billy Joel's music is the exact opposite of a woman with a radical hairstyle reciting over the top sexually empowered lyrics while basically fucking a synthesizer.1 Therefore, his music is terrible.
1: fwiw, he's also the opposite of a woman mumbling announcements that sound like something you'd hear in a namelessly foreign airport while basically fucking a synthesizer. He's the opposite of a lot of great things.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:10 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Because I couldn't sleep and because I thought I had found an almost clever way to describe how his music affects me.
Anyway, everyone - except for you ivory tower theory types - knows that electroclash was the pinnacle of musical development. Moreover, everyone can immediately tell that Billy Joel's music is the exact opposite of a woman with a radical hairstyle reciting over the top sexually empowered lyrics while basically fucking a synthesizer.1 Therefore, his music is terrible.
1: fwiw, he's also the opposite of a woman mumbling announcements that sound like something you'd hear in a namelessly foreign airport while basically fucking a synthesizer. He's the opposite of a lot of great things.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:10 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, the idea that people are just not educated enough to appreciate Billy Joel - and therefore unqualified to criticize his songs - is both preposterous and amusing. His music isn't really that sophisticated. Aside from the incorporation of elementary Western classical elements and some cocktail-lounge-level jazz it is pretty much standard pop singer-songwriter territory.
Maybe people focus their criticism on the lyrics because the music isn't very compelling from an analysis point of view and the lyrics are front and center both figuratively and literally.
Mediocre lyrics can be redeemed by a great melody or harmonic structure
Apparently that is not the case with the songs in question.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:17 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Maybe people focus their criticism on the lyrics because the music isn't very compelling from an analysis point of view and the lyrics are front and center both figuratively and literally.
Mediocre lyrics can be redeemed by a great melody or harmonic structure
Apparently that is not the case with the songs in question.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:17 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:25 PM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:25 PM on February 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
*confused look*
*goes to Wikipedia*
Electroclash, also known as retro electro, tech pop, nouveau disco, the new new wave – and ambiguously both synthcore and electropunk – is a style of music that fuses 1980s electro and new wave synthpop with 1990s techno and electronic dance music.
Gee, what a surprise that you wouldn't care for Billy Joel. I'll be sure to go listen to some of this electroclash stuff so I can come up with a clever way of saying how much it sucks for the next time it comes up in a FPP. Thanks.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 1:27 PM on February 4, 2015
*goes to Wikipedia*
Electroclash, also known as retro electro, tech pop, nouveau disco, the new new wave – and ambiguously both synthcore and electropunk – is a style of music that fuses 1980s electro and new wave synthpop with 1990s techno and electronic dance music.
Gee, what a surprise that you wouldn't care for Billy Joel. I'll be sure to go listen to some of this electroclash stuff so I can come up with a clever way of saying how much it sucks for the next time it comes up in a FPP. Thanks.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 1:27 PM on February 4, 2015
Yes, please. I am the first to admit that my favorite music is terrible. Like, literally I was the first to admit that.
still though that said I never would have stayed in grad school if it weren't for Peaches' enthusiastic, inspirational endorsement of the value of education in Fuck the Pain Away. Everything I am, I owe to electroclash.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:34 PM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
still though that said I never would have stayed in grad school if it weren't for Peaches' enthusiastic, inspirational endorsement of the value of education in Fuck the Pain Away. Everything I am, I owe to electroclash.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:34 PM on February 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is your opinion supposed to illuminate us in some way? What is the point?
Speaking for myself, as someone was/is critical of Joel, I agree that simply saying "this sucks," sucks. If I bother to comment on a musician at all—or anything, really—I'm most interested in interrogating my own taste, asking myself why I like or dislike something. I find Billy Joel's a particularly knotty problem in this respect because on paper he seems like someone I'd like, maybe a lot, and I don't very much. So he's like an itch I just can't scratch. I am interested in why other listeners dislike Billy Joel, but I'm just as interested in why others like him.
everyone can immediately tell that Billy Joel's music is the exact opposite of a woman with a radical hairstyle reciting over the top sexually empowered lyrics while basically fucking a synthesizer.
So what you really want is a Billy Joel/Chicks On Speed double-bill, right? Either that or a Joel cover of "Bad Babysitter."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:46 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Speaking for myself, as someone was/is critical of Joel, I agree that simply saying "this sucks," sucks. If I bother to comment on a musician at all—or anything, really—I'm most interested in interrogating my own taste, asking myself why I like or dislike something. I find Billy Joel's a particularly knotty problem in this respect because on paper he seems like someone I'd like, maybe a lot, and I don't very much. So he's like an itch I just can't scratch. I am interested in why other listeners dislike Billy Joel, but I'm just as interested in why others like him.
everyone can immediately tell that Billy Joel's music is the exact opposite of a woman with a radical hairstyle reciting over the top sexually empowered lyrics while basically fucking a synthesizer.
So what you really want is a Billy Joel/Chicks On Speed double-bill, right? Either that or a Joel cover of "Bad Babysitter."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:46 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
octobersurprise: oh my god until you said it I had no idea how much I want those things. Yes.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:55 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:55 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don't we all. Don't we all.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:58 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 1:58 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, the quote that spurred on MattMangles's comment above was incomplete:
Even his gems contain glaring flaws just at the level of song craft -- weak rhymes, cliches, hackneyed metaphors, forced narratives. Great to good (though typically conservatively pop) melodies, sure
And maybe he used that quote as an example of a trend in uninformed Joel criticism which the full quote would not support, but a scan of the comments in this thread for the word "lyrics" only brings up comments which are supportive. So the one person who was criticizing the lyrics actually did complement the melodies.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:09 PM on February 4, 2015
Even his gems contain glaring flaws just at the level of song craft -- weak rhymes, cliches, hackneyed metaphors, forced narratives. Great to good (though typically conservatively pop) melodies, sure
And maybe he used that quote as an example of a trend in uninformed Joel criticism which the full quote would not support, but a scan of the comments in this thread for the word "lyrics" only brings up comments which are supportive. So the one person who was criticizing the lyrics actually did complement the melodies.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:09 PM on February 4, 2015
Enjoy this cool early live version.
OMFG that Minimoog. So much want. So much analog, monophonic want.
posted by The Bellman at 2:20 PM on February 4, 2015
OMFG that Minimoog. So much want. So much analog, monophonic want.
posted by The Bellman at 2:20 PM on February 4, 2015
It must be noted that Metafilter's Beloved 'Weird Al' Yankovic almost never makes the original artist the subject of his parodies; he's too nice for that. The rare exceptions: "Smells Like Nirvana", "Achy Breaky Song", "Perform This Way", and this: "It's Still Billy Joel to Me", which he performed live, in-studio, on the Dr. Demento Show and he never released it on vinyl, CD or anything (of course, the legions of Dr. D. fans who home-tape his show ensured that the song was never really lost; and it was eventually released on the CD set, "Dr. Demento's Basement Tapes".).
What's the matter with the song he's singing?
Can't you tell that it's pretty lame?
After listening to a couple albums
well it all starts to sound the same.
So we tried to change his musical style.
He tossed all his albums in the circular file.
Famous sound, punk sound, breaking ground, all around,
it's still Billy Joel to me.
Well, if that's how Weird Al feels, who can argue?
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:13 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
What's the matter with the song he's singing?
Can't you tell that it's pretty lame?
After listening to a couple albums
well it all starts to sound the same.
So we tried to change his musical style.
He tossed all his albums in the circular file.
Famous sound, punk sound, breaking ground, all around,
it's still Billy Joel to me.
Well, if that's how Weird Al feels, who can argue?
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:13 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Look, I like Weird Al as much as the next person, but he's not my go to source on which artists are sufficiently original and innovative. Weird Al himself has been doing the same schtick for decades now, and it's entirely possible that the main reason why HIS songs sound different is because the artists he is COPYING from are so vastly different. So, in fact I will argue with you and Weird Al over this.
Does Joel have the range of, say, The Beatles? No, obvs. But there's a big difference between The Stranger vs. All Go Down Together vs. Good Die Young vs. And So It Goes. Whatever Weird Al says about it.
posted by onlyconnect at 3:42 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Does Joel have the range of, say, The Beatles? No, obvs. But there's a big difference between The Stranger vs. All Go Down Together vs. Good Die Young vs. And So It Goes. Whatever Weird Al says about it.
posted by onlyconnect at 3:42 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
In Al's defense, that song was from 1980.
Actually I was in a conversation about that today with a fellow Billy Joel Non-Fan. We both agreed that "It's Still R&R" was one of his least worst songs -- since it's an OK melody, but the lyrics are still from the point of a condescending asshole. Where the Weird Al version is much better as it keeps the melody, and lyrically is from the point of someone who's being a condescending asshole about Billy Joel.
(Also: Al's stuff IS pretty wide-ranging/innovative. Listen to, say, the use of tools as percussion on "Hardware Store". On a few of the later ones, there's instrumental versions of his originals -- including "Hardware Store" or "Pancreas" (admittedly, the latter's a Brian Wilson style parody, but AFAIK, "Hardware" is wholly original), and they're pretty damn good and work without the lyrics.
So, yeah -- I suppose that whether or not Joel's stuff "all starts to sound the same" is up for debate, but I don't think that applies to Al at all, even discounting his parodies and hell, style parodies.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 4:27 PM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Actually I was in a conversation about that today with a fellow Billy Joel Non-Fan. We both agreed that "It's Still R&R" was one of his least worst songs -- since it's an OK melody, but the lyrics are still from the point of a condescending asshole. Where the Weird Al version is much better as it keeps the melody, and lyrically is from the point of someone who's being a condescending asshole about Billy Joel.
(Also: Al's stuff IS pretty wide-ranging/innovative. Listen to, say, the use of tools as percussion on "Hardware Store". On a few of the later ones, there's instrumental versions of his originals -- including "Hardware Store" or "Pancreas" (admittedly, the latter's a Brian Wilson style parody, but AFAIK, "Hardware" is wholly original), and they're pretty damn good and work without the lyrics.
So, yeah -- I suppose that whether or not Joel's stuff "all starts to sound the same" is up for debate, but I don't think that applies to Al at all, even discounting his parodies and hell, style parodies.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 4:27 PM on February 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
(I don't follow recent Electroclash closely, but when I hear it played in a set on the local college radio station it's usually quite interesting and melodic.)
posted by ovvl at 5:01 PM on February 4, 2015
posted by ovvl at 5:01 PM on February 4, 2015
Forget electroclash, man, electrocats is where it's at. it's sparse, chilly synthesized beats with mewing over it.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 7:16 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 7:16 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
"We Didn't Start the Fire," is the new "American Pie" - full of cultural references and so educational.
I love "Downeaster Alexa" in a very cheesy way, I often shed a tear for the plight of modern fishermen.
posted by bendy at 7:18 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I love "Downeaster Alexa" in a very cheesy way, I often shed a tear for the plight of modern fishermen.
posted by bendy at 7:18 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am making this face now because "Uptown Girl" is in my head. Thanks Metafilter!
posted by supercrayon at 7:23 PM on February 4, 2015
posted by supercrayon at 7:23 PM on February 4, 2015
sparse, chilly synthesized beats with mewing over it.
I would listen to this!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:31 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would listen to this!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:31 PM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm not trying to be all "oh I know Music Theory and my opinion is superior", especially since this is America and we can't spend money on such piddly things as music classes when there are new sports facilities to build. But people need to recognize that just because they listen to a lot of music that doesn't mean they are qualified to make judgements about the craft of music making. Go take some music appreciation classes.I know, right? Taste this appetizer. You like it? You don't like it? You're not qualified to like it or dislike it unless you've attended culinary school, so shut it and go learn to make a proper roux.
But back to music. How much music theory do you have to know? Do you have to understand serialism? Bebop? Lydian mode? Carnatic theory? Moondogian counterpoint? Dancehall riddims? Harmolodics?
Like B. Joel or not. But don't act like your position is somehow morally or intellectually superior.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:05 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Like B. Joel or not. But don't act like your position is somehow morally or intellectually superior.
It's still rock n' roll to me. ;-)
posted by KingEdRa at 8:10 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's still rock n' roll to me. ;-)
posted by KingEdRa at 8:10 PM on February 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
After listening to/watching some of these songs on Youtube because I totally had to, I can report that Billy Joel's music videos, especially from the 80s, are cheesy, goofball, batshit insane, and a hell of a lot of fun to watch.
posted by edheil at 8:16 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by edheil at 8:16 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I developed this unsupportable obsession with Macklemore doing a cover of Close to the Borderline. It is not going to be fulfilled. Glass Houses on 8 Track is the only Billy Joel album I currently own. I should probably do something about that.
posted by nanojath at 9:09 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nanojath at 9:09 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
But back to music. How much music theory do you have to know? Do you have to understand serialism? Bebop? Lydian mode? Carnatic theory? Moondogian counterpoint? Dancehall riddims? Harmolodics?
You just need to know your Aeolian cadences.
posted by thelonius at 9:37 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
You just need to know your Aeolian cadences.
posted by thelonius at 9:37 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I taught my middle school orchestra an arrangement of And So It Goes a few years ago. It is one of a small handful of things in 10+ years there that they've played so beautifully and musically I teared up conducting it at the concert despite my generally crispy black heart. It is far too pretty to be that low on the list.
posted by charmedimsure at 9:52 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by charmedimsure at 9:52 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I kind of like Billy Joel's tunes. Have for a bit over 40 years. Not a big fan of every song of course. I do not agree with all of the rankings, but I do see this as an honest effort. I can respect that.
posted by scottymac at 11:22 PM on February 4, 2015
posted by scottymac at 11:22 PM on February 4, 2015
> > sparse, chilly synthesized beats with mewing over it.
> I would listen to this!
maybe if you put a banging donk on it...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:34 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
> I would listen to this!
maybe if you put a banging donk on it...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:34 PM on February 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I did all my hatin' on Billy Joel years ago, and I'm fresh out. Most of the seventies stuff sounds good to me these days.
I was hoping for "The Stranger" at number 1, but seeing the "Brender and Eddie" song up there was OK too and perhaps better deserved.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 10:18 AM on February 5, 2015
I was hoping for "The Stranger" at number 1, but seeing the "Brender and Eddie" song up there was OK too and perhaps better deserved.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 10:18 AM on February 5, 2015
Slow down you crazy child... you're too ambitious for a juvenile
If you're so smart, then why are you still so afraid?
posted by infini at 12:10 PM on February 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you're so smart, then why are you still so afraid?
posted by infini at 12:10 PM on February 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Looks like someone just realized that Vienna waits for them.
posted by dr_dank at 11:58 AM on February 6, 2015
posted by dr_dank at 11:58 AM on February 6, 2015
Something I like about Billy Joel is that although he wasn't highly educated -- he barely graduated high school, a school that was literally named Hicksville -- when he wrote a song giving advice, it was usually pretty good advice (even if he was partially motivated by wanting to get into your pants). So carpe diem, Virginia, and stop wigging out, whoever he wrote Vienna to, and Alexa you will always be connected to your father through music. That's pretty good stuff (the extended version in the songs, not what I just shortened it to here).
Contrast this to Bob Dylan, whose music and lyrics I love much more passionately but who (except for his "open your window and let me sleep with you" songs which are legion) mostly only seemed to offer up advice if he hated you or was breaking up with you, which usually meant it wasn't terribly good advice if you gave it a hard look (Don't Think Twice, She's Your Lover Now, etc.)
So Joel has that going for him, in my book.
posted by onlyconnect at 2:07 PM on February 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Contrast this to Bob Dylan, whose music and lyrics I love much more passionately but who (except for his "open your window and let me sleep with you" songs which are legion) mostly only seemed to offer up advice if he hated you or was breaking up with you, which usually meant it wasn't terribly good advice if you gave it a hard look (Don't Think Twice, She's Your Lover Now, etc.)
So Joel has that going for him, in my book.
posted by onlyconnect at 2:07 PM on February 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, The Times They Are a Changing had some pretty good advice in it, so there goes that little observation. *sigh*
posted by onlyconnect at 2:14 PM on February 6, 2015
posted by onlyconnect at 2:14 PM on February 6, 2015
If you're looking to pop music for advice, well, P(Ops98s9YAY3i2lO*S&TD(&^%l1kjh3lk1h3lk.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:41 PM on February 6, 2015
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:41 PM on February 6, 2015
If you're looking to pop music for advice, well…
"just throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em like you just don't care"
"bend over, let me see you shake your tail feather"
and so on.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:30 PM on February 6, 2015
"just throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em like you just don't care"
"bend over, let me see you shake your tail feather"
and so on.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:30 PM on February 6, 2015
(Actually, one of my pet peeves about so many pop lyrics is how imperative they so often are. It seems pop songwriters just can't resist telling us what to do. Fuck that shit--I'm a do what I wanna.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:06 PM on February 6, 2015
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:06 PM on February 6, 2015
« Older Named after a dildo in William Burrough's "Naked... | Do you read Sutter Cane? No? Oh, he's good, check... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by thelonius at 3:41 AM on February 4, 2015 [4 favorites]