Pre-9/11 Ties Haunt Saudis as New Accusations Surface
February 5, 2015 11:41 AM   Subscribe

During the 1980s and ’90s, the historic alliance between the wealthy monarchy of Saudi Arabia and the country’s powerful clerics emerged as the major financier of international jihad, channeling tens of millions of dollars to Muslim fighters in Afghanistan, Bosnia and elsewhere. Among the project’s major patrons was Prince Salman Bin Abdulaziz al-Saud, who last month became Saudi Arabia’s king.

Some of those fighters later formed Al Qaeda, which declared war on the United States and later mounted major attacks inside Saudi Arabia as well. In the past decade, according to officials of both the George W. Bush and Obama administrations, the Saudi government has become a valuable partner against terrorism, battling Al Qaeda at home and last year joining the American-led coalition against the extremists of the Islamic State.

Yet Saudi Arabia continues to be haunted by what some suspect was a tacit alliance with Al Qaeda in the years before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Those suspicions burst out in the open again this week with the disclosure of a prison deposition of a former Qaeda operative, Zacarias Moussaoui, who claimed that more than a dozen prominent Saudi figures were donors to the terror group and that a Saudi diplomat in Washington discussed with him a plot to shoot down Air Force One.

In the Guardian: US officials: 9/11 plotter's claims Saudi royals aided al-Qaida 'inconceivable'
posted by standardasparagus (40 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
 
I do not think that word means what they think it means.

Charlie Pierce's take here. It sure would be nice to have the missing pages of that 9/11 report.
posted by TedW at 11:47 AM on February 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


I know they've covered this in the past, but it's strange how the NYT article doesn't mention the members of Congress who also claim this by name or title, instead calling them "far more credible figures". C'mon guys, I know you're used to quoting anonymous senior officials, but these are elected officials on the record.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:55 AM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't think the Saudis are haunted by diddly-squat.

As long as they can profit from the dead dinos which keep bubbling up to the surface they are sitting pretty.
posted by Renoroc at 11:58 AM on February 5, 2015


Not sure why it is inconceivable. The US flew members of the Saudi royal family out of the country after 9/11, after all. It would be interesting if recent "revelations" are tied to current Saudi Arabia dumping crude oil and making things difficult for the US, though, and if this inquiry will get dropped in exchange for backroom concessions.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:01 PM on February 5, 2015


Reuters, Thu Feb 5, 2015 - Jordan releases leading al Qaeda mentor: security source
Jordanian authorities released an imprisoned spiritual leader linked to al Qaeda, Sheikh Abu Mohammad al-Maqdisi, on Thursday, a security source said.

[...]

But another security source told Reuters Maqdisi was expected to denounce the immolation of the Jordanian pilot Mouath al-Kasaesbeh as against "faith values".

The self-taught intellectual was seen as the spiritual guide of al Qaeda's late leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, but later disowned him for killing civilians indiscriminately.

Maqdisi, who was imprisoned for several years, was briefly released in October after criticising the leader of Islamic State Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

The timing of his release then prompted some Jordanian officials to suggest that authorities, fearful of militancy spilling across their own borders, had wanted to let him speak out against the Islamic State.
posted by rosswald at 12:05 PM on February 5, 2015


I used to know someone whose father was the trail lawyer who took on Big Tobacco (The Insider case that was the first time Big T lost), and his last big project was initiating the class action lawsuit targeting among others the Saudis for 9/11. He was on this trail, with his considerable resources (nearly as powerful as government in some ways), in the face of plenty of opposition, for much of the last decade

It was a passion project for him
posted by C.A.S. at 12:10 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


The US flew members of the Saudi royal family out of the country after 9/11,

Not according to Snopes.
posted by yoink at 12:10 PM on February 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


It was 50-60 years before the US Government acknowledged its role in the 1953 Iranian coup, so...
posted by rhizome at 12:10 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


It would be interesting if recent "revelations" are tied to current Saudi Arabia dumping crude oil and making things difficult for the US

I agree with your general point, but the Saudis dumping oil is not about making things hard for the US, as much as it is making things hard for Russia.
posted by C.A.S. at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2015 [8 favorites]


It is "highly improbable" the 19 hijackers acted alone, he said, yet the U.S. government's position is "to protect the government most responsible for that network of support. "

I can understand the Bush Administration obfuscating the Saudi ties as they were oh-so-eager to imply that Iraq was implicated in 9/11 (the tell that they knew it was a load of dreck was how careful they were not to say so outright). I don't understand what interest the current Administration would have in continuing to show such deference to the Saudis, though.
posted by Gelatin at 12:23 PM on February 5, 2015


I don't understand what interest the current Administration would have in continuing to show such deference to the Saudis, though.

Really?
posted by Cosine at 12:31 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yes, really. Using them as a lever against the Russians is all well and good, but there are other places we could get our oil. If memory serves me correctly, the Saudis just don't have the kind of control over the world oil market as they used to. Given that oil is about all Saudi Arabia has going for it, why shouldn't the decline in oil prices that is giving the US leverage over Russia and Iran also serve to diminish the influence of the Saudi regime?
posted by Gelatin at 12:34 PM on February 5, 2015


Snopes and the NYT do not seem to agree:

New Details on FBI Aid for Saudis After 9/11
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:35 PM on February 5, 2015


The footprint that relations with Saudi Arabia give the US in the middle east are of enormous strategic value. Harming relations with America's staunchest ally in the region would not be done lightly.
posted by Cosine at 12:40 PM on February 5, 2015


Snopes and the NYT do not seem to agree:

Yes they do. From your linked piece:
The documents obtained by Judicial Watch, with major passages heavily deleted, do not appear to contradict directly any of those central findings
I.e., the findings of the 9/11 commission which Snopes cites.
posted by yoink at 12:42 PM on February 5, 2015


From the same link:

The F.B.I. records show, for instance, that prominent Saudi citizens left the United States on several flights that had not been previously disclosed in public accounts, including a chartered flight from Providence, R.I., on Sept. 14, 2001, that included at least one member of the Saudi royal family, and three flights from Las Vegas between Sept. 19 and Sept. 24, also carrying members of the Saudi royal family. The government began reopening airspace on Sept. 13, but many flights remained grounded for days afterward.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:49 PM on February 5, 2015


Harming relations with America's staunchest ally in the region would not be done lightly.

I thought Israel was the US's staunchest ally in the region. But nevermind; if these allegations are true, "America's staunchest ally in the region" already harmed the relations by supporting the 9/11 attack.

Again, I can see many reason for the Bush Administration to turn a blind eye to the fact, but the deference the Obama administration seems to show the Saudi regime strikes me as strange.
posted by Gelatin at 12:54 PM on February 5, 2015


That prominent Saudi citizens left the US after 9/11 is not the same claim as that the FBI arranged flights for them or allowed them to fly while the airspace was closed to everyone else.

All this tells us is that there were a few more flights in which Saudi nationals left the US than we were previously aware of, and that they took place after the general ban on flights had been lifted.

What's next? Are we going to reopen all the nutjob conspiracy theories? The "pulling" of WTC 7, perhaps?
posted by yoink at 12:55 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


St. Petersburgh Times June 2004
Tampa International Airport Confirms Saudi Escape Flights After September 11, 2001 Attacks.
Tampa Bay Times Sept 2011
New evidence links Saudi Arabia to 9/11 hijackers: Graham.
Thats your former Florida Senator Bob Graham.
posted by adamvasco at 12:58 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Accusing someone of being a truther for quoting the NYT about secret flights arranged while US airspace was locked down is not good faith. I'll leave it at that.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:59 PM on February 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


secret flights arranged while US airspace was locked down

Helpful hint: September 14th comes after September 13th, not before as you seem to imagine.
posted by yoink at 1:05 PM on February 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Miami Herald, 2011: "Newly revealed details from an FBI investigation into the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks link a Saudi family living in an upscale Sarasota neighborhood to the hijackers, who made multiple visits to the Sarasota home before 9/11."

McClatchey, 2011: During an interview on Sunday, Graham said he was surprised he wasn't told about the probe when he was co-chairman of Congress' Joint Inquiry into 9/11 — even though he was especially alert to terrorist information relating to Florida.

NBC, 2012: "There is a link, too, between Prince Sultan and the post-9/11 investigation in Sarasota. Esam Ghazzawi, a longtime adviser to Sultan’s father, Prince Fahd, owned the Sarasota home suspected of having been visited on multiple occasions by hijack leader Mohamed Atta and several of his accomplices"

Miami Herald, 2014: "In all, the FBI released 11 pages. They contain statements reiterating that the al-Hijjis had departed the United States in haste shortly before 9/11 and that “further investigation” had “revealed many connections” between them and persons associated with “attacks on 9/11/2001.” Those statements flatly contradict the FBI’s public statements that agents found no connection between the al-Hijjis and the 9/11 plot."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:56 PM on February 5, 2015


Leaving hastily "shortly before 9/11" certainly could credibly count as suspicious behavior. My scepticism is not "no Saudi could possibly be connected to 9/11" it is simply that the specific claim that the US govt. arranged special flights for Saudi citizens after 9/11 has been thoroughly investigated and thoroughly debunked.

It is, moreover, a weird thing for people to have seized on. If anything tends to prove that you weren't in on the conspiracy, it would be finding yourself in the US immediately after it happened desperately trying to arrange a flight out of the country. If you knew it was coming, surely you'd leave before the event?
posted by yoink at 2:23 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Wait a minute, what about our funding and fostering the jihadists starting with the Carter administration. The ones Reagan called "Freedom Fighters" when they were killing Soviets who are now burning people alive. We created this mess. See "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll.
posted by shnarg at 2:25 PM on February 5, 2015




Ah, Saudi Arabia: that most honorary of members of the club of freedom-loving democracies.
posted by acb at 2:38 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


If you knew it was coming, surely you'd leave before the event?

That's not the way cell-based terror organizations work.
posted by rhizome at 2:42 PM on February 5, 2015


No wonder we don't want terror suspects tried in the States -- it's much harder to destroy their tapes when they say crazy shit. (Maybe Moussaoui read this guy's book?)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:42 PM on February 5, 2015


I don't understand what interest the current Administration would have in continuing to show such deference to the Saudis, though.

We don't discard allies in that region until events force our hand. We would still be supporting the Shah come hell or high water if it hadn't been for the Revolution. After he fell, Saddam Hussein became our next Favorite Guy, and he wasn't discarded even after the Iran War and the gassing of the Kurds. It was only after he got uppity enough to blatantly invade a neighboring state in the interests of getting more than his share of control over the petroleum pie to make us drop him.

So now the Saudis are our Main Man, and there aren't a lot of other options - Israel's prone to misbehave, Turkey is too independent, Egypt just lost its strongman. Add to that the fact that the House of Saud still has a lot of oil, a lot of money, and a lot of friends on Capitol Hill and in the US private sector, and yeah, I can see why the Obama Administration would not be particularly eager to open up that can of worms, especially with everything else that is presently going on: ISIS, the smouldering aftermath of the Arab Spring, revolution in Yemen, the present frosty relations with Netanyahu et al.

Washington doesn't go looking for embarrassing showdowns with still-useful nominal allies.
posted by AdamCSnider at 4:19 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Was it true that some of the 9/11 Hijackers all had Saudi Arabian passports?

Is there a possible link to Saudi Arabia there?
posted by Orion Blastar at 5:44 PM on February 5, 2015


Not only that, but we found that other guy in that other country where he was being protected. That other country where we needed to keep up good relations because it was a major supply route for a certain landlocked country we were currently invading.

Being a good friend means sometimes looking the other way.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:08 PM on February 5, 2015


Guys guys - GWB and Cheney said they didn't know what people were talking about with the Saudis being taken out before the ban was lifted, and we know they would *never* lie!
posted by symbioid at 7:09 PM on February 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Women aren't allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia. It's a straight up repressive regime that denies 50% of their population basic human rights. They shouldn't get a free pass on this just because they sell a lot of oil to the West. 9/11 links are a lesser offense in my eyes.
posted by emd3737 at 7:59 PM on February 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Every time this comes up again with some "New Details!" i realize that this is the grassy knoll of my generation, and that there's still going to be hardcore conspiracy theorists going on about it until well after my own death.

Holy shit am i tired of the whole "secret fbi flights!" thing though, and how much i saw that come up around this specific info the last day or so.

Jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt my heart of steel, i suppose.
posted by emptythought at 8:21 PM on February 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


Sadly - and I'm quite serious; there's no snark here - it's probably impossible to use any evidence given by "high value" prisoners in court; I don't even think we should take them seriously without external corrroboration. Any possible revelations have been contaminated by torture and the threats of torture, and by lengthy incarceration.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:09 PM on February 5, 2015


Interesting ISIS post by bearwife
posted by jeffburdges at 2:57 AM on February 6, 2015


Sadly - and I'm quite serious; there's no snark here - it's probably impossible to use any evidence given by "high value" prisoners in court; I don't even think we should take them seriously without external corrroboration. Any possible revelations have been contaminated by torture and the threats of torture, and by lengthy incarceration.

True; we would never use such testimony in, for example, a capital murder case, would we?
posted by TedW at 8:17 AM on February 6, 2015


i realize that this is the grassy knoll of my generation, and that there's still going to be hardcore conspiracy theorists going on about it until well after my own death.

If I understand correctly, it took until 1998 for all the Warren Commission documents to be released.

So by my calculations, we'll have our answers in 2036. You may be right.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:49 AM on February 6, 2015




Well, I understand that civil service appointments are within the purview of a Mr Barack Obama ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:49 AM on February 12, 2015


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