"What's on the page is what's on the page": Marvel's 1st trans character
February 15, 2015 8:09 AM   Subscribe

"Angela: Asgard’s Assassin is one of my favorite comics of moment, with two kick-ass female leads and no shortage of Asgardian humor. Currently, A:AA is being co-written by Kieron Gillen and Marguerite Bennett, with art by Phil Jimenez and Stephanie Hans. It focuses on Thor and Loki’s long-lost sister, Angela, who was raised by the Angels, and has been causing all sorts of trouble now that she’s back in our worlds. Angela travels with a woman named Sera, and the most recent issue gave us some insight into both Angela and Sera’s backstories."
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome (38 comments total) 15 users marked this as a favorite
 
Whoo.

I love Kieron Gillen; good bloke, good writer.
posted by MartinWisse at 8:34 AM on February 15, 2015 [2 favorites]


Not quite Marvel's first trans character though; there was Cloud, who was a sentient, cosmic, well, Cloud [1] who turned out could switch between female and male form at will (after she got seduction signals from Moondragon aimed at Moondragon's male team mates and she unconsciously took a male form to better adhere to her wishes).

There were also a couple of other, minor characters according to the Marvel Wikia.

[1] Not the same sentient cosmic cloud as in the new A-Force series.
posted by MartinWisse at 8:45 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


Keiron's "I'm not quite sure" on the firstness being quite well judged there.
posted by Artw at 8:47 AM on February 15, 2015 [3 favorites]


Cloud sounds more genderqueer than trans.
posted by idiopath at 8:48 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


In Matt Fraction's FF series, one of the Moloids very clearly transitioned and was accepted by her family. You can see the pages in question here. That was only 2 years ago, and already forgotten
posted by thecjm at 9:14 AM on February 15, 2015 [5 favorites]


I am really excited to hear about this and I will be stopping by the comic book store today! When I buy all three issues, it will be my first purchase of a non Dark Horse comic in years. Today, everyone wins!
posted by Hopeful and Cynical at 9:33 AM on February 15, 2015


Given the amount of gender (and indeed inter-species) stuff in Norse Mythology I'm surprised this hasn't happened before (then again main stream comics have been pretty conservative until recently
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:35 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


There was a two-year story arc where the spirit of Sasquatch from Alpha Flight inhabited the female body of Snowbird, with the character struggling with and then accepting and welcoming the gender change.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:36 AM on February 15, 2015 [4 favorites]


Hey, Loki in the original source material was cheerfully a mother and a father to all sorts of creatures and beings (For example, I'm pretty sure that Odin's horse is one of Loki's children from the time when Loki lured a giant's horse away from a critical job by becoming a very sexy mare). I know that Lee and Kirby were not thinking in that direction, but, with a Trickster, anything is possible....
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:42 AM on February 15, 2015 [3 favorites]


Probably not what Lee and Kirby were thinking, but recent writers have definitely taken that detail to heart.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:31 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is fantastic. I could say it's inevitable it was Gillen who did this, after the delightfully queer (and delightful) Young Avengers, but tbh for me every bit of positive representation for trans women is still a lovely surprise.

Cheers, Gillen, Bennett.
posted by these are science wands at 10:31 AM on February 15, 2015


I know that Lee and Kirby were not thinking in that direction, but, with a Trickster, anything is possible....

Maybe not Lee and Kirby, but from 2008-2010 Loki was female.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:32 AM on February 15, 2015 [2 favorites]


There was a minor-ish flap a year or so back when some one asked about Loki and Ewing gave the obvious answer.

Not everyone was too happy with that, though maybe not always for the reasons you'd expect.

That series has been great and the Gillen/Ewing incarnation(s) of Loki have been great fun in general, BTW.
posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on February 15, 2015 [2 favorites]


I guess Xavin is another one who qualifies as genderqueer rather than trans.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 10:50 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


Didn't the Gambit comic have a gender fluid character?
posted by FunkyHelix at 10:54 AM on February 15, 2015


There was the character of Tristan in Camelot 3000.
posted by nicolin at 10:57 AM on February 15, 2015 [5 favorites]


I like this relevant essay at the Mary Sue about writing trans superheroes that are positive representations. Marvel has several characters that could gender-swap with superpowers, but that's closer to genderfluid and seems like a cheat to get out of actually saying anything about experiencing life as a trans person. You can only do so much with that--it matters a lot to have characters that actually identify as trans, as opposed to coded analogues.
posted by almostmanda at 11:30 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


I miss Kieron Gillen writing for RPS, but if this is what he's doing instead then I'd call it a good trade.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:35 AM on February 15, 2015


I guess Xavin is another one who qualifies as genderqueer rather than trans.

One of Vaughan's better moments was the dialogue where Xavin explains why they can't just be female all the time to make Karolina happy (unlike every other Skrull in the Marvel universe who can be talked into being a cow for years on end). Of course this was shortly followed by Whedon's "You were a girl all along," which I still have a grudge about.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:44 AM on February 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


I miss Kieron Gillen writing for RPS, but if this is what he's doing instead then I'd call it a good trade.

Well, this is his bread and butter corporate stuff. What you should really check out for peak-Gillen is his The Wicked + The Divine.
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on February 15, 2015 [4 favorites]


Well, this is his bread and butter corporate stuff. What you should really check out for peak-Gillen is his The Wicked + The Divine.

When I first read this, I pondered over how many of the independent comics I'm reading (now that I can do so without feeling guilty about stacks of them lying around the house) have had trans characters, and the answer was nearly all of them.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 5:57 PM on February 15, 2015


GenjiandProust, regarding Loki and Sleipnir, yup. He became a mare in heat to distract the monstrous horse of an ice giant and vanished for several months afterward only to reappear with an eight legged colt he had birthed. That's how Odin got his horse Sleipnir.

That's bestiality, a sex change (I'm not sure it really counts as being transgender since Loki always identified as male regardless of his form), and probably a few other things as well. I don't recall anything in the Eddas as painting Loki as bi, but there really isn't much there saying he was really straight either. He had a wife and kids (the Fenris wolf, the Midgard Serpent, and Hel are all his children).

Mostly he appears to have taken female form to gain something rather than just for fun or personal expression.

I think making Loki bi and genderfluid seems perfectly reasonable though.
posted by sotonohito at 7:35 PM on February 15, 2015


Loki is all about the spy-sex.

Doing a horse? Genetic espionage.
posted by Artw at 9:39 PM on February 15, 2015


What you should really check out for peak-Gillen is his The Wicked + The Divine.

The first volume of which conveniently came out late last year.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:31 PM on February 15, 2015


Cloud sounds more genderqueer than trans.

'Genderqueer' is generally considered a trans identity. Trans does not necessarily mean binary transsexual.
posted by Dysk at 3:41 AM on February 16, 2015


Female Thor Is What Happens When Progressive Hand-Wringing And Misandry Ruin A Cherished Art-Form!

Says the London (WTF?) edition of Breitbart.
posted by MartinWisse at 4:58 AM on February 16, 2015


Female Thor Is What Happens When Progressive Hand-Wringing And Misandry Ruin A Cherished Art-Form!

Now that is some olympic-medal fanboy griping.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 5:48 AM on February 16, 2015


Milo isn't a fanboy, he's an opportunistic troll.
posted by Artw at 6:22 AM on February 16, 2015


I was having some trouble with this. It just seems wrong, over the line, and going too far. I mean--an Asgardian named "Angela"?!
A little research shows her name was originally "Aldrif". That seems a lot better.
posted by librosegretti at 8:01 AM on February 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


She's a Neil Gaiman character invented as an enemy for Todd MacFarlane's spawn. Marvel ended up with the rights to her d to a bunch of complicated messing about and found a way to shoehorn her in.
posted by Artw at 8:38 AM on February 16, 2015


Being trans is not an identity.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:09 PM on February 16, 2015


Being trans is not an identity.

Is this "being trans is not enough characterization to serve as a character and a character whose only characterization is that they're trans is a poor character who is probably not being well-depicted" or something shitty?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:14 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Being trans is not an identity.

It sure as fuck forms part of one, though! Sure there's more to us than just or transness, but damn if it ain't an important part of our selves for many if not most of us.
posted by Dysk at 2:48 AM on February 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


The answer to the question, what is your gender, is not "trans". Trans is not a gender. Trans people identify as either a boy/man or a girl/woman. Sometimes it's fluid.
posted by Brocktoon at 7:11 AM on February 17, 2015


Trans is a category of genders and not a gender, but it doesn't have to be a gender to be an identity.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:19 AM on February 17, 2015


Yes, it does. When we talk about trans people and identity, we're talking about gender.
posted by Brocktoon at 7:54 AM on February 17, 2015


Brockton: The answer to the question, what is your gender, is not "trans". Trans is not a gender. Trans people identify as either a boy/man or a girl/woman. Sometimes it's fluid.

Umm... hi. Trans woman here. Guess what? I just identified myself as a trans woman. That means that 'trans' very much forms part of how I see myself and how I identify. I don't think it makes me any less of a woman, much like my being a tall woman or a Danish woman or whatever makes me any less of a woman. But believe me, trans is part of my identity, though you're right to say it isn't a gender. Our identities are more than just our gender, however.

And a whole bunch of trans people do not identify as either a boy/man or a girl/woman. They might well identify as both, neither, non-binary, agender, third gender, genderqueer, genderfluid, and so on. Trans people aren't all binary.


Pope Guilty: Trans is a category of genders and not a gender, but it doesn't have to be a gender to be an identity.

I'm not sure I like this much more. Trans relates to gender, certainly, but it is not a category of genders - that would rather imply that trans woman is a subcategory of trans which is itself separate to cis genders, and whoops, suddenly we've completely othered trans people and suggested that trans femaleness is a different thing to cis femaleness when in actual fact they're both just femaleness and cis and trans are no more categories above that than brunette or blonde.
posted by Dysk at 8:02 AM on February 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


I phrased that poorly and apologize.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:43 AM on February 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


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