Averages don't tell the whole story.

February 17, 2015 8:33 AM

No city mixes affordability, opportunity, and wealth as well as Minneapolis, Minnesota - at least, according to The Atlantic. However, the Minnesota Department of Health points out that "averages don't tell the whole story." Minnesota's demographics may obscure some socio-economic problems, including severe disparities in health outcomes and educational attainment.
posted by entropone (25 comments total)

Similarly, Madison, WI often places well in "most livable cities" rankings, but the black community doesn't share in those benefits.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:40 AM on February 17, 2015 [4 favorites]

MPRnews had similar criticisms about MSP's structural demographic issues that are being elided over in the positive press.

As an aside, it causes me no small amount of annoyance that the "Minneapolis - St Paul" area that the Atlantic piece is raving about somehow, magically, converts to just "Minneapolis" in the headlines. People wonder why us STPers have such big chips on our shoulders, grumble grumble grumble
posted by Think_Long at 9:07 AM on February 17, 2015

Probably because median is usually a better measure.
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:50 AM on February 17, 2015

Simpson's Paradox at work.
posted by The Giant Squid at 9:53 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

Maybe the Atlantic should consult its archives a bit. But that did happen almost 9 months ago--who can expect journalists to have such a long memory?
posted by TypographicalError at 10:01 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

I am really happy to see this kind of article come out because I feel like I'm in a constant uphill battle to convince friends and family from around the country that Minneapolis isn't a frozen hellscape.

That said, I feel like the good news here isn't really a result of government policy, as the lack of absurd inflation in home prices that is happening everywhere else (yes, even post-housing-bubble). In many of the big cities in the country right now, you need to either have rich parents or be on a very narrow list of high-paying occupations to buy your own home within the city limits. That drastically increases inequality. Meanwhile, in Minneapolis you can get a fine house in a variety of different, really nice neighborhoods for 200k. That's achievable even if you have a medium-paying job and no family money.
posted by miyabo at 10:23 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

(I'm really contrasting to Seattle, where I used to live -- a lot of my friends are doing crazy stuff to try to buy houses that are 5 or 6 times their annual income)
posted by miyabo at 10:30 AM on February 17, 2015 [3 favorites]

I am really happy to see this kind of article come out because I feel like I'm in a constant uphill battle to convince friends and family from around the country that Minneapolis isn't a frozen hellscape.

But the perception that Minneapolis is a frozen hellscape is a large part of why it's such an affordable place to live.
posted by gyc at 10:39 AM on February 17, 2015 [8 favorites]

Yeah, but at least it's an affordable frozen hellscape.
posted by Floydd at 10:41 AM on February 17, 2015 [3 favorites]

I am going to throw down the latest AskMefi thread about the Twin Cities.
posted by jadepearl at 10:46 AM on February 17, 2015

Mpls is a nice place to live, work and raise a family. It's not Chicago, it's not Omaha, and that's OK.
posted by lstanley at 10:58 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

People wonder why us STPers have such big chips on our shoulders

I thought it was jealousy over Minneapolis' sensible street plan.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:16 AM on February 17, 2015 [7 favorites]

I have always considered Minneapolis St Paul to be my preferred place to work and live. (My preferred place to just live would be Maui.) You get most of the advantages of living in silicon valley and none of the huge disadvantages of living here. I would love to have a huge lakefront house and commute to work in 15 minutes.

My wife hates the cold though.
posted by HappyEngineer at 11:27 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

People wonder why us STPers have such big chips on our shoulders

I thought it was jealousy over Minneapolis' sensible street plan.

Funny, I heard it was snow removal.
posted by advicepig at 11:38 AM on February 17, 2015 [3 favorites]

As of this year I kind of officially hate the cold, too. But I hate it less than I hated the various inconveniences of living in (for example) the Bay Area, and I don't hate it enough that it offsets the many things I love about living here.

One might argue that anyplace that people live where the weather is touted as the main draw are hellscapes in ways that you can't just dress appropriately to manage.

Viva la North!
posted by padraigin at 11:42 AM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

People wonder why us STPers have such big chips on our shoulders

I thought it was jealousy over Minneapolis' sensible street plan.

Psshh, the Como to Horton to Como to Como Lake Drive to Como Place is our shibboleth - if you don't know it, you don't belong.
posted by Think_Long at 11:52 AM on February 17, 2015 [4 favorites]

That Atlantic article is like crack to Minnesotans. People there still reference the "Good Life in Minnesota" Time Magazine cover story from 1973. I say this with deep affection and as someone who grew up there and maintains strong ties, but with the possible exception of Texans there are no more boastful people in America than Minnesotans. Every new report touting the high liveability index, low unemployment, the well-educated citizenry, robust health, thriving cultural scene, etc. is like a shot of endorphins that encourages them to gloss over or outright deny real problems of poverty and race.

There definitely has been a longstanding culture of egalitarianism and cooperation in the Twin Cities that isn't present in other places I've spent a lot of time in. I haven't lived there in 20 years, but I do get the impression that this spirit has unraveled a bit in recent years, especially as the suburbs have become more conservative relative to the core cities and wealth has become less evenly distributed.

On a maybe unrelated note, I mentioned in an AskMe answer recently that high-end retail and other signs of conspicuous consumption really don't fly in the Cities. For a metro area of its size and wealth, I wonder if there's something significant to the fact that upscale department stores haven't been able to stick around and luxury boutiques are rare. Maybe it's a good sign.
posted by theory at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2015 [3 favorites]

lstanley: It's not Chicago, it's not Omaha, and that's OK.

If I were hoping to move out of my beloved Pittsburgh, you would have just sold me on Minneapolis.

St. Paul, though, that's too far.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:27 PM on February 17, 2015

Also, the article should be commended for pointing out that not every data point resides at the average.

Well done. If it hadn't been for that, I would have assumed all the 0.5 kids in those families were also 18.6% black.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:28 PM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

I am really happy to see this kind of article come out because I feel like I'm in a constant uphill battle to convince friends and family from around the country that Minneapolis isn't a frozen hellscape.

I've been there in the winter. It was indeed a frozen hellscape, though one populated by very nice people. But until there is the option of living entirely indoors and walking to work though heated tunnels all winter, I won't be moving there.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:41 PM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

Funny you should say that, Dip Flash: Minneapolis Skyway
posted by Dokterrock at 11:23 PM on February 17, 2015 [1 favorite]

Related counterpoint: If Minneapolis is so great, why is it so bad for African Americans?
posted by antonymous at 6:29 AM on February 18, 2015 [2 favorites]

It's worth noting in a discussion of racial inequality in Minneapolis-St. Paul that there are a tremendous number of Somalian (and other) refugees living there. There are certainly more wide-spread systemic problems, but I feel it's important to consider that the largest and fastest growing group of 'black people' in the metro area in the last 20 years are 1st or 2nd generation Somalian immigrants, which brings with it it's own difficulties and realities. Even in an ideal situation (and it's far from ideal), education is going to be much harder and show less result for a group of people both generally uneducated in the American sense and who are typically not english speaking. Health care outcomes, regardless of access, are going to be lower in a group of people who pretty recently fled horrid violence, hunger and suffering. People who come from a vastly different culture (and whose choice to move here was motivated by fear more than desire.) are going to have a harder time operating in a society that expects immigrants to assimilate as soon as possible. Many of them have very little interest in ever assimilating into 'American culture', which seems perfectly reasonable (I can't even imagine the question of fitting into american ideas and assumptions about black people as an african immigrant.) but also means that success by american standards in an american country is simply less likely. Many of those who do achieve economic success end up leaving the poor refugee neighborhoods for ones with better access to services but without as much concern towards them having a sizable similar ethnic community, which ends up showing no improvement in the original, still poor immigrant community. Foreign ethnic enclaves typically won't show much improvement in social statistics because success on those grounds requires a degree of assimilation that frequently causes or requires those people to leave that ethnic enclave.

I'm not saying that makes any of the worse health, economic or social outcomes for any of these people right, or that the implicit racism of MN doesn't play a part (it really really does) in why these communities have such shit access to public infrastructure, but a large number of the black people in the metro area have a more specific name and experience than the amorphous "black people" that is used here, and it plays a huge part in defining how things play out.

I'm not sure how to put it, but in a lot of discussions about race in Minneapolis/St. Paul I feel the Somalian community is stripped of its identity and agency by lumping them in with the more general term "black people" for ease of discussion, and that makes me uncomfortable.
posted by neonrev at 1:58 PM on February 18, 2015 [3 favorites]

Basically, black is not an all encompassing ethnicity and there are a lot of places where using it as such overshadows far more complex social issues and systems to the detriment of the very people we're talking about.
posted by neonrev at 2:01 PM on February 18, 2015 [3 favorites]

There's a pervasive local mythology that all the poor and minority people "aren't from around here" -- either they're from other countries, or Chicago, or the South. This is, of course, ridiculous -- there are still more than 4 times as many African-Americans as there are Somalis, and they've been here in large numbers since the beginning.

The Twin Cities as a whole is 18% non-white, which is less than the US as a whole, but still means there's a very significant minority population. Like other large cities, they have been victims of endemic poverty here for decades.

I don't know if Minneapolis is more or less racist than anywhere else, but it certainly has more than enough racism to warrant criticism alongside any praise.
posted by miyabo at 6:05 PM on February 18, 2015 [1 favorite]