First human head transplant could happen in two years
February 26, 2015 12:52 PM Subscribe
A radical plan for transplanting a head onto someone else’s body is set to be announced. But is such ethically sensitive surgery even feasible? (SLNewScientist)
(SLNewScientist)
Says it all.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:58 PM on February 26, 2015 [17 favorites]
Says it all.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:58 PM on February 26, 2015 [17 favorites]
...and it's going to happen on Mars! Submit your applications along with $40.00 today.
posted by bondcliff at 12:58 PM on February 26, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by bondcliff at 12:58 PM on February 26, 2015 [23 favorites]
And look at what we're watching on the Buffy FanFare threads this week. Coincidence?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:58 PM on February 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:58 PM on February 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
There has to be a variant of Betteridge's law of headlines that speaks to the psychological reactance of a bold or outrageous headline.
"First human head transplant could happen in two years."
"No, it can't."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:00 PM on February 26, 2015 [8 favorites]
"First human head transplant could happen in two years."
"No, it can't."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:00 PM on February 26, 2015 [8 favorites]
Isn't this more of a body transplant? It's a head that wants a new body, not a body that wants a new head, right?
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [72 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [72 favorites]
The trickiest part will be getting the spinal cords to fuse.
So only that one medical miracle to solve for then? What's taking them so long?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [27 favorites]
So only that one medical miracle to solve for then? What's taking them so long?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [27 favorites]
Just like hot water makes dry spaghetti stick together, polyethylene glycol encourages the fat in cell membranes to mesh.
Mmm. Welp, tonight's not pasta night at the Conspiracy homestead.
Every bone shattered . . . organs leaking vital fluids . . . slight headache . . . loss of appetite . . . Smithers, I'm going to die.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Mmm. Welp, tonight's not pasta night at the Conspiracy homestead.
Every bone shattered . . . organs leaking vital fluids . . . slight headache . . . loss of appetite . . . Smithers, I'm going to die.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Yes, Obama was born in Hawaii but HIS CURRENT HEAD was born in Kenya!"
posted by delfin at 1:02 PM on February 26, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by delfin at 1:02 PM on February 26, 2015 [30 favorites]
If it's Ray Milland and Rosey Grier, then I say yes.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:04 PM on February 26, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 1:04 PM on February 26, 2015 [28 favorites]
many cultures would not approve of the surgery because of their belief in a human soul that is not confined to the brain.
Interesting. Wish they'd have elaborated on this just for a couple of sentences, even with one cultural example. Seems to me the larger ethical problems are the ones related to vanity--i.e., a good head but a busted old body.
posted by resurrexit at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Interesting. Wish they'd have elaborated on this just for a couple of sentences, even with one cultural example. Seems to me the larger ethical problems are the ones related to vanity--i.e., a good head but a busted old body.
posted by resurrexit at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Could that someone else's body be a robot?
I'm asking for a friend.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015 [34 favorites]
I'm asking for a friend.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015 [34 favorites]
Can anybody answer why a head transplant would be easier than brain?
posted by Thing at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Thing at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015
Also, this doctor clearly has no idea what he's doing. I didn't see one thing in the article about the bolts that would be used to make the attachment.
posted by resurrexit at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
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posted by resurrexit at 1:05 PM on February 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
Gosh, it seemed like a good idea at the time...
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:06 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:06 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Paging Dr Adder
posted by infini at 1:06 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by infini at 1:06 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Thoughtful, Captain, but probably impractical. While I might trust the Doctor to remove a splinter, or lance a boil, I do not believe he has the knowledge to restore a brain."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:07 PM on February 26, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:07 PM on February 26, 2015 [8 favorites]
Also, this doctor clearly has no idea what he's doing. I didn't see one thing in the article about the bolts that would be used to make the attachment.
Well, plus you have to wait for a lightning strike. So that kind of limits when you can perform the surgery.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:07 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, plus you have to wait for a lightning strike. So that kind of limits when you can perform the surgery.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:07 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can anybody answer why a head transplant would be easier than brain?
posted by Thing at 4:05 PM on February 26
Yep!
"6 things you're dying to ask about head transplants"
posted by orme at 1:09 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Thing at 4:05 PM on February 26
Yep!
"6 things you're dying to ask about head transplants"
posted by orme at 1:09 PM on February 26, 2015
Is that "Puttin' on the Ritz" I hear playing?
posted by tommasz at 1:09 PM on February 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 1:09 PM on February 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
Could that someone else's body be a robot?
An Adrian Barbo-bot?
/Sealab 2021
posted by daq at 1:10 PM on February 26, 2015 [18 favorites]
An Adrian Barbo-bot?
/Sealab 2021
posted by daq at 1:10 PM on February 26, 2015 [18 favorites]
If they can figure out a way to replace the head, too, then like 90% of the theoretical scenarios I studied in undergraduate philosophy could play out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:12 PM on February 26, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:12 PM on February 26, 2015 [18 favorites]
The first successful head transplant, in which one head was replaced by another, was carried out in 1970. A team led by Robert White at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland, Ohio, transplanted the head of one monkey onto the body of another. They didn't attempt to join the spinal cords, though, so the monkey couldn't move its body, but it was able to breathe with artificial assistance. The monkey lived for nine days until its immune system rejected the head.A bit liberal with the word "successful" aren't we?
posted by brundlefly at 1:15 PM on February 26, 2015 [69 favorites]
The first attempt at a head transplant was carried out on a dog by Soviet surgeon Vladimir Demikhov in 1954.
There are videos of these experiments out there, though I don't recommend viewing them. The Soviets did some pretty twisted and ground-breaking work on transplants and artificial organs.
posted by dephlogisticated at 1:15 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are videos of these experiments out there, though I don't recommend viewing them. The Soviets did some pretty twisted and ground-breaking work on transplants and artificial organs.
posted by dephlogisticated at 1:15 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I can't help but feel that there could be devastating psychological consequences to this. I'm pretty sure the body is a lot more than a thing that the head/brain sits on. Muscle memory? The pleasure of being touched a certain way in a certain place? The way a hug from your favorite person would feel different? And much much more. Not just sensation. We still know so about the human body. This is hubris and the makings of a pretty epic tragedy...
posted by kitcat at 1:16 PM on February 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by kitcat at 1:16 PM on February 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
At last The Day After Tomorrow can become reality!
(I often pick up popular fiction to read while traveling and that book is one of my most memorable; not only is it spectacularly preposterous and horribly written, but a few years after I first read it I had completely erased it from my memory to the extent that I bought another copy in an airport somewhere, started to read it after settling in on the plane, and suddenly realized I was trapped on a plane with a book I hated the first time around. That's when I learned to love SkyMall.)
posted by TedW at 1:17 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
(I often pick up popular fiction to read while traveling and that book is one of my most memorable; not only is it spectacularly preposterous and horribly written, but a few years after I first read it I had completely erased it from my memory to the extent that I bought another copy in an airport somewhere, started to read it after settling in on the plane, and suddenly realized I was trapped on a plane with a book I hated the first time around. That's when I learned to love SkyMall.)
posted by TedW at 1:17 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
If they can figure out a way to replace the head, too, then like 90% of the theoretical scenarios I studied in undergraduate philosophy could play out.
Put the head on a trolly and you've got the other 10%.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:18 PM on February 26, 2015 [21 favorites]
Put the head on a trolly and you've got the other 10%.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:18 PM on February 26, 2015 [21 favorites]
I feel like all the skepticism here is misplaced. This is the kind of vastly significant medical advancement that will bring with it thousands of other important and vital techniques which could be used every day by surgeons around the world. Sure, it will likely take more than two years to get to the point where this will be possible; but that's all the more reason to give the necessary research our full support right now.
After all, if we're ever going to end up pulling this off, we're going to need a good head start.
posted by koeselitz at 1:21 PM on February 26, 2015 [18 favorites]
After all, if we're ever going to end up pulling this off, we're going to need a good head start.
posted by koeselitz at 1:21 PM on February 26, 2015 [18 favorites]
If they can figure out a way to replace the head, too
Much like the legendary Esquilax?
posted by Ratio at 1:22 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Much like the legendary Esquilax?
posted by Ratio at 1:22 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is hubris and the makings of a pretty epic tragedy...
There are devastating consequences to any surgery, though. For someone choosing between a certain death from terminal, invasive organ cancer, would it outweigh that they were losing their unique connection to their body?
My husband had cancer surgery this year that likely permanently damaged his sense of smell, among other heavy side effects. There could be pretty devastating psychological consequences to this (some people with adult-onset anosmia describe it as going through life like they're watching a movie), but the surgery extended his chances of survival by a huge amount. There are always trade-offs, and I was hoping the ethicist in the article would talk about the trade-off of a horrifically dangerous surgery vs. the benefits. I'm thinking of the GQ profile of Richard Norris, who had an extremely difficult and dangerous face transplant with questionable improvements to his quality of life.
posted by muddgirl at 1:23 PM on February 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
There are devastating consequences to any surgery, though. For someone choosing between a certain death from terminal, invasive organ cancer, would it outweigh that they were losing their unique connection to their body?
My husband had cancer surgery this year that likely permanently damaged his sense of smell, among other heavy side effects. There could be pretty devastating psychological consequences to this (some people with adult-onset anosmia describe it as going through life like they're watching a movie), but the surgery extended his chances of survival by a huge amount. There are always trade-offs, and I was hoping the ethicist in the article would talk about the trade-off of a horrifically dangerous surgery vs. the benefits. I'm thinking of the GQ profile of Richard Norris, who had an extremely difficult and dangerous face transplant with questionable improvements to his quality of life.
posted by muddgirl at 1:23 PM on February 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
Isn't this more of a body transplant? It's a head that wants a new body, not a body that wants a new head, right?
"Well Mr. Jones, I regret to say we were unable to save your brain. However, we were able to successfully transplant a new head onto your body."
"I keep telling you, my name is Barbara!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:24 PM on February 26, 2015 [30 favorites]
"Well Mr. Jones, I regret to say we were unable to save your brain. However, we were able to successfully transplant a new head onto your body."
"I keep telling you, my name is Barbara!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:24 PM on February 26, 2015 [30 favorites]
>
Wikipedia: Ancient Egyptian concept of the soul. You'd end up with the wrong stuff in the canopic jars!
posted by XMLicious at 1:27 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
many cultures would not approve of the surgery because of their belief in a human soul that is not confined to the brain.
Interesting. Wish they'd have elaborated on this just for a couple of sentences, even with one cultural example.
Wikipedia: Ancient Egyptian concept of the soul. You'd end up with the wrong stuff in the canopic jars!
posted by XMLicious at 1:27 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
brundlefly: A bit liberal with the word "successful" aren't we?Not really. The head and brain's necessary organs functioned, with the exception of the nervous system. The monkey head became a quadriplegic that lived 9 days.
Solve the [A MIRACLE OCCURS HERE!] brain stem issue, and you've got a medical procedure that 9 out of 10 quadriplegics would give your right arm to undergo.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the spinal cord fusion thing isn't the only thing to worry about. Almost every transplant patient in the world is then stuck on a massive immuno-suppressant regime, due to how our immune systems are coded to only recognize initial host DNA (badly, I might add. See: all inflammatory auto-immune diseases).
Then there's the connection between the brain and "second brain" of the guts, meaning a whole host of other problems related to neuro-chemical balance and production, not to mention management (if your new body requires a different signal/feedback than your old body, say hello to all kinds of neuro receptor problems).
Your brain is not an isolated organ. It relies on just about everything else in your body (including your appendix) to function. Simply swapping out parts already does not work. That's where building replacement organs using your own cells grown in labs is where the real groundbreaking medical work is focused. They've already been able to grow hearts, lungs, kidneys, using the cell structure from donor organs and "washing" the donor cells off, leaving the structure ready for the original cells to rebuild. That will be where we will see truly lifesaving advances, because there is nothing to reject. The cells are already your own.
Now, if we could work on better blood scrubbing technologies (to filter out the excess prion disaster than happens as we age, along with the secondary decay of absorbed pollution over a lifetime), we will see longevity increases that will be very hard to predict how they will alter society (think of every distopian despotic sci-fi you've ever seen).
I get that limb replacements have been done successfully (with the caveat of the whole immuno-suppression stuff required). But I do not think that this kind of thing is going to be anything like what people seem to be reading from this.
That said, I want my robot body to be a robot tiger.
posted by daq at 1:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [33 favorites]
Then there's the connection between the brain and "second brain" of the guts, meaning a whole host of other problems related to neuro-chemical balance and production, not to mention management (if your new body requires a different signal/feedback than your old body, say hello to all kinds of neuro receptor problems).
Your brain is not an isolated organ. It relies on just about everything else in your body (including your appendix) to function. Simply swapping out parts already does not work. That's where building replacement organs using your own cells grown in labs is where the real groundbreaking medical work is focused. They've already been able to grow hearts, lungs, kidneys, using the cell structure from donor organs and "washing" the donor cells off, leaving the structure ready for the original cells to rebuild. That will be where we will see truly lifesaving advances, because there is nothing to reject. The cells are already your own.
Now, if we could work on better blood scrubbing technologies (to filter out the excess prion disaster than happens as we age, along with the secondary decay of absorbed pollution over a lifetime), we will see longevity increases that will be very hard to predict how they will alter society (think of every distopian despotic sci-fi you've ever seen).
I get that limb replacements have been done successfully (with the caveat of the whole immuno-suppression stuff required). But I do not think that this kind of thing is going to be anything like what people seem to be reading from this.
That said, I want my robot body to be a robot tiger.
posted by daq at 1:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [33 favorites]
Yeah, I think there are certainly some real questions to ask about how likely/possible this is, but I can see nothing but good for serious cancer sufferers and those with severe paralysis.
What I wonder is if he might be able to pimp this out to the Department of Defense? I feel like a lot of the recent breakthroughs have been because of various wars.
posted by corb at 1:33 PM on February 26, 2015
What I wonder is if he might be able to pimp this out to the Department of Defense? I feel like a lot of the recent breakthroughs have been because of various wars.
posted by corb at 1:33 PM on February 26, 2015
kitcat: I can't help but feel that there could be devastating psychological consequences to this. I'm pretty sure the body is a lot more than a thing that the head/brain sits on. Muscle memory? The pleasure of being touched a certain way in a certain place? The way a hug from your favorite person would feel different? And much much more. Not just sensation. We still know so about the human body. This is hubris and the makings of a pretty epic tragedy...
That's pretty typical "But what would this medical technique mean, really?" stuff. Short answer: your concerns are probably 100x smaller than the benefits.
"Dear disabled vet: we have a technique that will allow you to resume control over your pooping, peeing, restore your ability to feel warmth and touch, and ultimately - possibly - even walk and move your hands. Oh, and your penis will be functional in other ways, as well. Downside: you won't regain your muscle memory of how to play a G7 chord."
"FORGET IT!"
Seriously, hubris? To want to restore quality of life to quadriplegics? It's hubris to suggest that this is not a great thing.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:36 PM on February 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
The DOD's always looking for a way to get a head.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:36 PM on February 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 1:36 PM on February 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
daq: Simply swapping out parts already does not work.Explain to me how swapping out hearts, kidneys, and marrow doesn't work.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Mr. Jacobs, I sentence you to have your head removed and your body given to a wealthy donor friend of mine. His head will be placed on your body."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
What's taking them so long?
Well, first they had to invent cold fusion. Must Italy do everything?
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 1:40 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, first they had to invent cold fusion. Must Italy do everything?
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 1:40 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Isn't this the cart before the horse. Did I miss the news article about curing paraplegia, and quadriplegia? Can they do that first?
posted by Oyéah at 1:41 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 1:41 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
So billionaires will soon be growing replacement bodies with stem cells and then just swap our their bodies every 20 years. I for one welcome our new lich king overlords.
posted by ian1977 at 1:42 PM on February 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 1:42 PM on February 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
nothing but good for serious cancer sufferers and those with severe paralysis.
Yeah, see, this was the kind of bioethics conversation I was hoping for. To me, there's a huge difference in the calculus between "someone who is going to die very soon and could live longer by risking this surgery" and "someone who's paralyzed but not in immediate danger of death," considering the most likely consequence of this surgery is "still paralyzed from the neck down, plus your new body is rapidly rejecting your head."
However, solving any of the intermediate steps to a successful surgery would be a net benefit for people with spine and nerve damage, even if the surgery attempt never occurs or fails.
posted by muddgirl at 1:42 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, see, this was the kind of bioethics conversation I was hoping for. To me, there's a huge difference in the calculus between "someone who is going to die very soon and could live longer by risking this surgery" and "someone who's paralyzed but not in immediate danger of death," considering the most likely consequence of this surgery is "still paralyzed from the neck down, plus your new body is rapidly rejecting your head."
However, solving any of the intermediate steps to a successful surgery would be a net benefit for people with spine and nerve damage, even if the surgery attempt never occurs or fails.
posted by muddgirl at 1:42 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
But is such ethically sensitive surgery even feasible?
When even New Scientist uses an incredulous sub-hed for the story about your project, that's a sign that you might want to rethink your whole research program.
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:43 PM on February 26, 2015
When even New Scientist uses an incredulous sub-hed for the story about your project, that's a sign that you might want to rethink your whole research program.
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:43 PM on February 26, 2015
I think what's missing here is the ethics of the donor body.
Most people probably don't die of head related things, so the donor will almost always be someone who could have been saved by having a head transplant. Any time you do this, you would basically be taking two people who could be saved by a head transplant and picking one of them to live and one to die and donate a body.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:45 PM on February 26, 2015 [11 favorites]
Most people probably don't die of head related things, so the donor will almost always be someone who could have been saved by having a head transplant. Any time you do this, you would basically be taking two people who could be saved by a head transplant and picking one of them to live and one to die and donate a body.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:45 PM on February 26, 2015 [11 favorites]
There's also footage of Robert White's rhesus monkey head transplants, but I don't recommend it.
He (White, not the monkey) later became Pope John Paul II's chief advisor on medical ethics, but didn't abandon his earlier project. He practised human head transplants on cadavers, and had his eye on Stephen Hawkin and Christopher Reeve.
posted by Devonian at 1:48 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
He (White, not the monkey) later became Pope John Paul II's chief advisor on medical ethics, but didn't abandon his earlier project. He practised human head transplants on cadavers, and had his eye on Stephen Hawkin and Christopher Reeve.
posted by Devonian at 1:48 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Paging Dr. Riviera, Dr. Nick Riviera.......
posted by Mr.Me at 1:49 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Me at 1:49 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Previously): Can You Keep a Severed Head Alive?
Gray Matters - by William Hjortsberg
Ford: What's with the whole two-head thing?
Zaphod: Oh, yeah, apparently you can't be president with a whole brain.
Gene Wolfe does a terrific riff on an incredible two-headed transplant in his Book of the New Sun.
Meet Typhon and Piaton: Sword and citadel (Google Books)
posted by 0rison at 1:50 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Gray Matters - by William Hjortsberg
Ford: What's with the whole two-head thing?
Zaphod: Oh, yeah, apparently you can't be president with a whole brain.
Gene Wolfe does a terrific riff on an incredible two-headed transplant in his Book of the New Sun.
Meet Typhon and Piaton: Sword and citadel (Google Books)
posted by 0rison at 1:50 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's more likely that in our children's lifetimes (well mine, I'm in my 30's) humans will have access to avatars. Then no one will have any need for cosmetic surgeries. You can just hook yourself up to a virtual world where you're always a hot, fit 25 year old and go to job interviews and dates as your avatar even if in reality you're a fat slob with no teeth and moles all over your body. Like in that movie "Avatar". No need for head transplants then.
posted by rancher at 1:52 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by rancher at 1:52 PM on February 26, 2015
The organ rejection from this procedure must be like ReAnimator meets Rock'em Sock'em Robots
posted by SharkParty at 1:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by SharkParty at 1:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Could that someone else's body be a robot?
Because no body can be elected president more than twice... Aroo!
posted by kersplunk at 1:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Because no body can be elected president more than twice... Aroo!
posted by kersplunk at 1:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Isn't this the cart before the horse. Did I miss the news article about curing paraplegia, and quadriplegia? Can they do that first?
This question is actually implicitely addressed in Canavero's editorial (my apologies if it's paywalled):
posted by muddgirl at 1:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
This question is actually implicitely addressed in Canavero's editorial (my apologies if it's paywalled):
The key to SCF is a sharp severance of the cords themselves, with its attendant minimal damage to both the axons in the white matter and the neurons in the gray laminae. This is a key point: A typical force generated by creating a sharp transection is less than 10 N versus approximately 26000 N experienced during spinal cord injury, a 2600× difference!Long story short - some people with spinal cord injuries already self-heal if the injury is done right. Canavero's argument is that a surgical cord separation will be more likely to heal than the average trauma.
posted by muddgirl at 1:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
*sneaks in bad French Revolution jokes*
posted by infini at 1:54 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 1:54 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
If we knew how to repair a severed spinal cord, we wouldn't need to do body transplants to help quadriplegics. We could just repair their severed spinal cords.
posted by hydropsyche at 1:54 PM on February 26, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 1:54 PM on February 26, 2015 [13 favorites]
IAmBroom:
"Almost every transplant patient in the world is then stuck on a massive immuno-suppressant regime..."
I'll add the caveat that I may be wrong about this, but donor organ rejection is kind of a big deal, and having your immune system trying to kill your new organ is not what I would call "working".
Yes, I have odd and high standards. But having to be tied to constant medical care and immunosuppression therapy is a big deal if you want this technology to be a real "fix" for failing organs.
I do think the new technology and research into "cloned" organs using donor frameworks to grow the cloned organs on (the main hurdle that was stopping cloned organs).
But, you know, that's just my layman's take on this.
posted by daq at 1:55 PM on February 26, 2015
"Almost every transplant patient in the world is then stuck on a massive immuno-suppressant regime..."
I'll add the caveat that I may be wrong about this, but donor organ rejection is kind of a big deal, and having your immune system trying to kill your new organ is not what I would call "working".
Yes, I have odd and high standards. But having to be tied to constant medical care and immunosuppression therapy is a big deal if you want this technology to be a real "fix" for failing organs.
I do think the new technology and research into "cloned" organs using donor frameworks to grow the cloned organs on (the main hurdle that was stopping cloned organs).
But, you know, that's just my layman's take on this.
posted by daq at 1:55 PM on February 26, 2015
Most people probably don't die of head related things
Eh? Traumatic brain injury contributes to 30% of all injury deaths, according to the CDC. That's why we have organ donors, but in this case you're also taking the skeleton, tissue, and skin around the organs.
The real ethics question is whether more lives can be saved by parceling out those organs, or trying to save one life with this technique.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:56 PM on February 26, 2015 [9 favorites]
Eh? Traumatic brain injury contributes to 30% of all injury deaths, according to the CDC. That's why we have organ donors, but in this case you're also taking the skeleton, tissue, and skin around the organs.
The real ethics question is whether more lives can be saved by parceling out those organs, or trying to save one life with this technique.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:56 PM on February 26, 2015 [9 favorites]
IT'S AAALIIIIIIIIVE
So billionaires will soon be growing replacement bodies with stem cells and then just swap our their bodies every 20 years. I for one welcome our new lich king overlords.
Hey, man. At least we know how to take them down if we have to.
posted by echocollate at 1:57 PM on February 26, 2015
So billionaires will soon be growing replacement bodies with stem cells and then just swap our their bodies every 20 years. I for one welcome our new lich king overlords.
Hey, man. At least we know how to take them down if we have to.
posted by echocollate at 1:57 PM on February 26, 2015
They will still be quadraplegic, so why transplant for that condition, or create the condition?
posted by Oyéah at 1:59 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 1:59 PM on February 26, 2015
Eh? Traumatic brain injury contributes to 30% of all injury deaths, according to the CDC.
Huh, that's much higher than I would have guessed, but I think it does confirm my statement that most people don't die of head-related things. Most deaths aren't injury deaths and most injury deaths apparently don't involve the head.
Good point on parcelling out organs vs. giving away a whole body, though. However, I wonder if the transplant recipient could also donate any organs that are still functioning.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:59 PM on February 26, 2015
Huh, that's much higher than I would have guessed, but I think it does confirm my statement that most people don't die of head-related things. Most deaths aren't injury deaths and most injury deaths apparently don't involve the head.
Good point on parcelling out organs vs. giving away a whole body, though. However, I wonder if the transplant recipient could also donate any organs that are still functioning.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:59 PM on February 26, 2015
There was a vignette in Transmetropolitan about this sort of thing. A man is complaining that the brothel won't let him in, he's a serial head transplant fetishist and they're worried he'll chop off the prostitutes head and put it on his body.
posted by Hactar at 2:00 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Hactar at 2:00 PM on February 26, 2015
Paging Dr. Riviera, Dr. Nick Riviera.......
HI EVERYBODY!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:02 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
HI EVERYBODY!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:02 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Most deaths aren't injury deaths and most injury deaths apparently don't involve the head.
I don't anyone's saying this will be in widespread use - but even if it's only useful in some situations, wouldn't it be great to use in those situations?
It does also raise interesting ethical questions when it comes to, say, the death penalty for murderers, though. Would murderers donate their bodies for such a thing? And if so, would it tend to lead to more death sentences rather than less, the direction things are currently going?
posted by corb at 2:06 PM on February 26, 2015
I don't anyone's saying this will be in widespread use - but even if it's only useful in some situations, wouldn't it be great to use in those situations?
It does also raise interesting ethical questions when it comes to, say, the death penalty for murderers, though. Would murderers donate their bodies for such a thing? And if so, would it tend to lead to more death sentences rather than less, the direction things are currently going?
posted by corb at 2:06 PM on February 26, 2015
Does this mean we can take Ted Williams' head out of the deep freeze and put a body on it?
posted by 724A at 2:09 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by 724A at 2:09 PM on February 26, 2015
Paging Herr Virek...
posted by Windopaene at 2:10 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Windopaene at 2:10 PM on February 26, 2015
The Great Big Mulp: "Could that someone else's body be a robot?
I'm asking for a friend."
Can it just be a brain? On a robot body? With... chainsaws for arms? And D-Cups of Justice!? (SFW)
posted by symbioid at 2:12 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm asking for a friend."
Can it just be a brain? On a robot body? With... chainsaws for arms? And D-Cups of Justice!? (SFW)
posted by symbioid at 2:12 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Considering the way I've been feeling lately... where do I sign up?
posted by Splunge at 2:12 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Splunge at 2:12 PM on February 26, 2015
Most people probably don't die of head related things, so the donor will almost always be someone who could have been saved by having a head transplant. Any time you do this, you would basically be taking two people who could be saved by a head transplant and picking one of them to live and one to die and donate a body.
I'm not following this. If you have two people with functional brains and bodies that work well enough to be transplantable, don't you just have two living, recovering people? Why would either one be involved in a head/body transplant?
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:13 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm not following this. If you have two people with functional brains and bodies that work well enough to be transplantable, don't you just have two living, recovering people? Why would either one be involved in a head/body transplant?
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:13 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Paging Walt Disney...
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:16 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:16 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does this mean we can take Ted Williams' head out of the deep freeze and put a body on it?
There's no way this isn't substantially more than 2 years away if ever, but it does raise an actual ethical issue, rather than the fakey ones from the article. What about terminally ill people who had their heads cryogenically frozen? Do we prioritize them at all for body transplants? Or do the freshly needy take precedent, to the point where a headsicle would never get near the top of the donor list? Would they even be put on it?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 2:16 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's no way this isn't substantially more than 2 years away if ever, but it does raise an actual ethical issue, rather than the fakey ones from the article. What about terminally ill people who had their heads cryogenically frozen? Do we prioritize them at all for body transplants? Or do the freshly needy take precedent, to the point where a headsicle would never get near the top of the donor list? Would they even be put on it?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 2:16 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is that "Puttin' on the Ritz" I hear playing?
Close. Very, very close.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:20 PM on February 26, 2015
Close. Very, very close.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:20 PM on February 26, 2015
IAmBroom: you've got a medical procedure that 9 out of 10 quadriplegics would give your right arm to undergo.
Ha! Well played!
posted by brundlefly at 2:20 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ha! Well played!
posted by brundlefly at 2:20 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Paging Alfredo Garcia...
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:24 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:24 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not following this. If you have two people with functional brains and bodies that work well enough to be transplantable, don't you just have two living, recovering people? Why would either one be involved in a head/body transplant?
Yes, you're right, the two people could never both be donors. My thinking was probably meant to be: You have two people with functioning heads and non-functioning bodies, so they would both benefit from a head, so why should one get it and not the other, but this is the same as any transplant scenario. So presumably the bodies would come exclusively from people who died of head-related things.
To the person who was saying this would never be widespread: I would think if it worked and it weren't for the ethical issues who where the donor bodies came from, then it should be widespread. If most people don't die of head related things then most people could be saved with a head transplant. So most people should get one when they eventually need one. We could eliminate death from all non-head-related causes and we'd all live til we had a stroke or something. Still not long enough, but better than nothing.
I don't actually think this is feasible, but if it were: Head transplants for all!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:25 PM on February 26, 2015
Yes, you're right, the two people could never both be donors. My thinking was probably meant to be: You have two people with functioning heads and non-functioning bodies, so they would both benefit from a head, so why should one get it and not the other, but this is the same as any transplant scenario. So presumably the bodies would come exclusively from people who died of head-related things.
To the person who was saying this would never be widespread: I would think if it worked and it weren't for the ethical issues who where the donor bodies came from, then it should be widespread. If most people don't die of head related things then most people could be saved with a head transplant. So most people should get one when they eventually need one. We could eliminate death from all non-head-related causes and we'd all live til we had a stroke or something. Still not long enough, but better than nothing.
I don't actually think this is feasible, but if it were: Head transplants for all!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:25 PM on February 26, 2015
A bit liberal with the word "successful" aren't we?
posted by brundlefly at 4:15 PM on February 26
Scientists, when this particular user finds your experiments ill-conceived, distasteful, and dangerous, you had best listen.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:27 PM on February 26, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 4:15 PM on February 26
Scientists, when this particular user finds your experiments ill-conceived, distasteful, and dangerous, you had best listen.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:27 PM on February 26, 2015 [11 favorites]
In general, rates of transplant organ survival are not great. It drops off to around 50% after 10 years, a bit more or less depending on organ type. See, for example, the graph from this article.
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Downside: you won't regain your muscle memory of how to play a G7 chord.
What I meant was - we need to appreciate how many of our anchors in the world are in our hands, our feet, our shoulders...etc. And even beyond that, do we actually know for certain that chemicals produced in our pancreas or wherever else don't affect our brain/psychology? When I said devastating psychological consequences, I meant suicidal thoughts, severe disassociation, anxiety, psychosis. I think that's a real concern and part of the ethics of this.
posted by kitcat at 2:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
What I meant was - we need to appreciate how many of our anchors in the world are in our hands, our feet, our shoulders...etc. And even beyond that, do we actually know for certain that chemicals produced in our pancreas or wherever else don't affect our brain/psychology? When I said devastating psychological consequences, I meant suicidal thoughts, severe disassociation, anxiety, psychosis. I think that's a real concern and part of the ethics of this.
posted by kitcat at 2:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
but it does raise an actual ethical issue, rather than the fakey ones from the article. What about terminally ill people who had their heads cryogenically frozen?
Those are dead heads.
The tissues fracture when cooled. We'd need handwavey nano-magic to bring them back.
Not that I'm against handwavey nano-magic... we probably need it to join those spinal cords too, but once we've got it we can just fix cancers, grow new bodies, etc etc etc.
posted by Leon at 2:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Those are dead heads.
The tissues fracture when cooled. We'd need handwavey nano-magic to bring them back.
Not that I'm against handwavey nano-magic... we probably need it to join those spinal cords too, but once we've got it we can just fix cancers, grow new bodies, etc etc etc.
posted by Leon at 2:29 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
So basically we just need to grow our own identical headless twin in a vat, and we become immortal?
Sign me up!
posted by blue_beetle at 2:34 PM on February 26, 2015
Sign me up!
posted by blue_beetle at 2:34 PM on February 26, 2015
Much like the legendary Esquilax?
I think you mean the Great Roe, "a mythological beast with the head of a lion and the body of a lion, though not the same lion." (Woody Allen)
posted by The Bellman at 2:36 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you mean the Great Roe, "a mythological beast with the head of a lion and the body of a lion, though not the same lion." (Woody Allen)
posted by The Bellman at 2:36 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hi! Your friendly neighborhood ventilator-dependent quadriplegic here. Much as my muscles and nerves have degenerated over the years, I'd never consider such surgery because I wouldn't be able to handle it psychologically. I'd much rather be rebuilt from the ground up with stem cells. But can I just say, that out of all the medical specialists I've visited, neurologists are hands-down the creepiest.
posted by Soliloquy at 2:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [35 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 2:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [35 favorites]
headsicle
I love this thread
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:40 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I love this thread
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:40 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
So most people should get one when they eventually need one.
Hope we've conquered aging by then or there'll be all these old-looking heads walking around on young-looking bodies. (Everywhere will look like Beverly Hills, iow.)
posted by octobersurprise at 2:43 PM on February 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hope we've conquered aging by then or there'll be all these old-looking heads walking around on young-looking bodies. (Everywhere will look like Beverly Hills, iow.)
posted by octobersurprise at 2:43 PM on February 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering if the brain could "rewire" itself to reassign connections after the transplant and subsequent spinal-cord healing, since, even if you got the correct spinal cord tracts matched up, an individual nerve fiber would no longer connect to the "correct" nerve ending (unless you imagined some really not-near-future nanotech solution that mapped out each and every nerve fiber to its relevant connection in the donor body, something that is getting into "Spock's Brain" territory.)
Also, I agree with Soliloquy in that I'd rather go with either the stem cell fix, or maybe a cloned-body replacement (with non-functional brain on the "donor" body for obvious reasons). Oh, and gender-switched, because what the hell.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:43 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, I agree with Soliloquy in that I'd rather go with either the stem cell fix, or maybe a cloned-body replacement (with non-functional brain on the "donor" body for obvious reasons). Oh, and gender-switched, because what the hell.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:43 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Zoidberg did this on Mercury.
"An accident?! Was anyone hurt?"
"Oh no, no, Fry. Only you."
This kind of thing always happens with office romances!
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:51 PM on February 26, 2015
"An accident?! Was anyone hurt?"
"Oh no, no, Fry. Only you."
This kind of thing always happens with office romances!
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:51 PM on February 26, 2015
Now I really want to watch Body Parts again.
posted by Oktober at 2:55 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Oktober at 2:55 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Isn't this the cart before the horse. Did I miss the news article about curing paraplegia, and quadriplegia? Can they do that first?
Normally I really dislike comments like these, because the implication that science can or will progress in a linear direction down some prioritized list of what any given person thinks is easiest or most important is just flat out wrong. But in this case, it does sort of apply: if this guy really had found a reliable way to surgically reattach severed spinal cord tissue, he wouldn't be talking about head grafts, he'd be trying to get the method adopted by top SCI surgeons to compare with existing interventions. It's pretty much always the sign of a grade-A crank to reach for the most ostentatious and slim-hope demonstration of their supposed discovery.
posted by kagredon at 3:00 PM on February 26, 2015 [9 favorites]
Normally I really dislike comments like these, because the implication that science can or will progress in a linear direction down some prioritized list of what any given person thinks is easiest or most important is just flat out wrong. But in this case, it does sort of apply: if this guy really had found a reliable way to surgically reattach severed spinal cord tissue, he wouldn't be talking about head grafts, he'd be trying to get the method adopted by top SCI surgeons to compare with existing interventions. It's pretty much always the sign of a grade-A crank to reach for the most ostentatious and slim-hope demonstration of their supposed discovery.
posted by kagredon at 3:00 PM on February 26, 2015 [9 favorites]
Ok, from the other thread there is mention of vat-grown anencephalic heads. Good point...we already have people born with no brains. I suppose you could deliberately deprive a fetus of folate and create donor bodies. You might have to put adult heads on baby bodies, but babies' heads are already unsually large anyway, so it would only be a little worse. And I feel like somehow having a system not yet fully mapped would be an advantage for getting things hooked up right.
The downside of this of course is how horrible it would be for the woman carrying the fetus (we don't have those vats just yet, do we?). And yes, I am kind of horrified by what I'm typing, even myself.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:00 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
The downside of this of course is how horrible it would be for the woman carrying the fetus (we don't have those vats just yet, do we?). And yes, I am kind of horrified by what I'm typing, even myself.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:00 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
It does also raise interesting ethical questions when it comes to, say, the death penalty for murderers, though. Would murderers donate their bodies for such a thing? And if so, would it tend to lead to more death sentences rather than less, the direction things are currently going?
Those seem like the same ethical questions that have been an issue since we've been able to transplant organs from the bodies of executed persons.
I couldn't help but notice that the researcher already planning on going ahead with animal trials of Canavero's surgical technique is in China, where according to Wikipedia 65% of transplants come from death-row prisoners. (Cited from a 2009 BBC story that cites China Daily citing unidentified sources.) Also there's quite a bit of material in that Wikipedia page concerning the harvesting of organs from prisoners who are still alive...
posted by XMLicious at 3:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
The organ rejection from this procedure must be like ReAnimator meets Rock'em Sock'em Robots
Or Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
posted by dirigibleman at 3:26 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Or Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
posted by dirigibleman at 3:26 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Assuming we have a donor body in great health and an awe-inspiring suite of anti-rejection meds, it seems hard to build an argument for doing this instead of stripping the body down for parts and saving a someone with heart failure, someone else who needs lungs, two more people with kidney failures, three or four others with liver failure, and a bunch of other people who need, as an Igor might put it "variouth bitth of athhorted tubing".
posted by metaBugs at 3:35 PM on February 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by metaBugs at 3:35 PM on February 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
But how close are we until we can create the first Human Centipede?!?
posted by briank at 3:52 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by briank at 3:52 PM on February 26, 2015
This development could give Kimye and Brangelina an entirely new and very intriguing life.
posted by nikoniko at 3:59 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nikoniko at 3:59 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Together. Making babies. Together. A true power coupling.
posted by nikoniko at 4:00 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by nikoniko at 4:00 PM on February 26, 2015
Please don't tell me that my Return to Oz nightmares will become reality.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:06 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by betweenthebars at 4:06 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to have my head removed, cleansed, folded and mutilated, and then reattached to my body. Then I'd like to do an interview (or be interviewed by) the likes of John Shirley. Only then will things begin to make sense.
posted by metagnathous at 4:10 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by metagnathous at 4:10 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, plus one on the "if you can do this to spinal tissue, don't worry about the head transplants". My optic nerves are buggered: if someone's got a procedure for rebuilding unmyelinated fibres, let's be having it with no niggardly hand.
posted by Devonian at 4:23 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 4:23 PM on February 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ok, from the other thread there is mention of vat-grown anencephalic heads. Good point...we already have people born with no brains. I suppose you could deliberately deprive a fetus of folate and create donor bodies. You might have to put adult heads on baby bodies, but babies' heads are already unsually large anyway, so it would only be a little worse. And I feel like somehow having a system not yet fully mapped would be an advantage for getting things hooked up right.
The downside of this of course is how horrible it would be for the woman carrying the fetus (we don't have those vats just yet, do we?). And yes, I am kind of horrified by what I'm typing, even myself.
At some point our society decides whether people with vast (and I do mean vast) cognitive impairment are ethically exploitable or not - ie, if there's demonstrably nobody home, is it okay to treat them as just another tool?
If yes, then anencephalic clones and similarly afflicted mothers to bear them are both permissible, and it won't be very long (on the scale of human history) until the rich are simply swapping to a new body every fifty years.
If no, then... actually I'm pretty certain it won't be "no," because only one sovereign power needs to declare it permissible (given their relative comfortability with genetic engineering/eugenics, China seems like a contender) for everyone with the financial means to move there. Plus, the spiritual successors to the Koch brothers will demand it, so I don't see it being outlawed here, either.
This thread reminded me that Arthur C. Clarke wrote a rather disturbing scene in Imperial Earth where the (genetically sterile) protagonist visits the compound of the doctor hired to clone him. There's a short bit where he watches a group of severely mentally disabled mothers - including the one carrying his clone - performing simple exercises, as regular low-intensity physical activity was important for the health of the fetus. This always bothered me because even after accounting for severe cognitive impairment how do you handle the whole separation aspect in anything approaching a humane fashion?
posted by Ryvar at 4:24 PM on February 26, 2015
The downside of this of course is how horrible it would be for the woman carrying the fetus (we don't have those vats just yet, do we?). And yes, I am kind of horrified by what I'm typing, even myself.
At some point our society decides whether people with vast (and I do mean vast) cognitive impairment are ethically exploitable or not - ie, if there's demonstrably nobody home, is it okay to treat them as just another tool?
If yes, then anencephalic clones and similarly afflicted mothers to bear them are both permissible, and it won't be very long (on the scale of human history) until the rich are simply swapping to a new body every fifty years.
If no, then... actually I'm pretty certain it won't be "no," because only one sovereign power needs to declare it permissible (given their relative comfortability with genetic engineering/eugenics, China seems like a contender) for everyone with the financial means to move there. Plus, the spiritual successors to the Koch brothers will demand it, so I don't see it being outlawed here, either.
This thread reminded me that Arthur C. Clarke wrote a rather disturbing scene in Imperial Earth where the (genetically sterile) protagonist visits the compound of the doctor hired to clone him. There's a short bit where he watches a group of severely mentally disabled mothers - including the one carrying his clone - performing simple exercises, as regular low-intensity physical activity was important for the health of the fetus. This always bothered me because even after accounting for severe cognitive impairment how do you handle the whole separation aspect in anything approaching a humane fashion?
posted by Ryvar at 4:24 PM on February 26, 2015
anencephalic clones and similarly afflicted mothers to bear them
Surely the Tleilaxu will never part with the secrets of that technology.
posted by XMLicious at 4:49 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
butterhead
posted by stevil at 4:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by stevil at 4:53 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Eventually we will be able to grow the relevant cells in a vat and 3d print you a whole new body. No immune rejection because they will be you.
posted by humanfont at 5:02 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 5:02 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is silly. If you open your mouth REAL wide, the little homunculus that drives your body can climb out and then jump down a willing donor's throat, or go on whimsical adventures as a tiny person in a big world.
After your tiny self is done having fun fun getting sucked up in vacuum cleaners and couchsurfing your daughter's dollhouses, you can then pull a sick prank by sneaking into a philosophy 101 class and start arguing with the professor over whether or not your existence complicates the origin of consciousness even more through potentially infinite recursion.
posted by mccarty.tim at 5:33 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
After your tiny self is done having fun fun getting sucked up in vacuum cleaners and couchsurfing your daughter's dollhouses, you can then pull a sick prank by sneaking into a philosophy 101 class and start arguing with the professor over whether or not your existence complicates the origin of consciousness even more through potentially infinite recursion.
posted by mccarty.tim at 5:33 PM on February 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Your body is just your head's way of getting from place to place.
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:37 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
:That Hideous Strength" by C.S. Lewis comes to mind.
posted by lungtaworld at 6:03 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lungtaworld at 6:03 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Could that someone else's body be a robot?
I'm asking for a friend.
Yes.
However... only ASIMO.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:05 PM on February 26, 2015
I'm asking for a friend.
Yes.
However... only ASIMO.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:05 PM on February 26, 2015
This technology has already been presented to the public.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:38 PM on February 26, 2015
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:38 PM on February 26, 2015
muddgirl: "Long story short - some people with spinal cord injuries already self-heal if the injury is done right. Canavero's argument is that a surgical cord separation will be more likely to heal than the average trauma."
How many vertebrae do you suppose you'd have to lose to get a nice clean cut. This would seem like the easiest test subjects as it completely eliminates the donor problem.
Or heck transplant in section of healthy donor cord.
Ryvar: " There's a short bit where he watches a group of severely mentally disabled mothers - including the one carrying his clone - performing simple exercises, as regular low-intensity physical activity was important for the health of the fetus. This always bothered me because even after accounting for severe cognitive impairment how do you handle the whole separation aspect in anything approaching a humane fashion?"
The Vorkosigan Saga includes reliable gene splicing, transplants and cloning. At one point our heros rescue a group of healthy, intelligent, teenagers who are gene engineered body donors. The donors are killed once they are mature enough to accept the adult size brain of their owner. *shudder*
posted by Mitheral at 9:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
How many vertebrae do you suppose you'd have to lose to get a nice clean cut. This would seem like the easiest test subjects as it completely eliminates the donor problem.
Or heck transplant in section of healthy donor cord.
Ryvar: " There's a short bit where he watches a group of severely mentally disabled mothers - including the one carrying his clone - performing simple exercises, as regular low-intensity physical activity was important for the health of the fetus. This always bothered me because even after accounting for severe cognitive impairment how do you handle the whole separation aspect in anything approaching a humane fashion?"
The Vorkosigan Saga includes reliable gene splicing, transplants and cloning. At one point our heros rescue a group of healthy, intelligent, teenagers who are gene engineered body donors. The donors are killed once they are mature enough to accept the adult size brain of their owner. *shudder*
posted by Mitheral at 9:01 PM on February 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Soliloquy: " But can I just say, that out of all the medical specialists I've visited, neurologists are hands-down the creepiest."
How so?
posted by RobotHero at 9:22 PM on February 26, 2015
How so?
posted by RobotHero at 9:22 PM on February 26, 2015
If yes, then anencephalic clones and similarly afflicted mothers to bear them are both permissible
What if you get transplanted onto a body that's been flaccid and inactive all its life and never wants to eat anything except cheeseburgers? Or has some weird genetic configuration that makes you never want to get out of bed? Then what?
posted by sneebler at 7:55 AM on February 27, 2015
What if you get transplanted onto a body that's been flaccid and inactive all its life and never wants to eat anything except cheeseburgers? Or has some weird genetic configuration that makes you never want to get out of bed? Then what?
posted by sneebler at 7:55 AM on February 27, 2015
The Vorkosigan Saga includes reliable gene splicing, transplants and cloning. At one point our heros rescue a group of healthy, intelligent, teenagers who are gene engineered body donors. The donors are killed once they are mature enough to accept the adult size brain of their owner. *shudder*
This is also the premise of Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go. I wonder who was the first SF writer to use the trope?
posted by crazy with stars at 8:31 AM on February 27, 2015
This is also the premise of Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go. I wonder who was the first SF writer to use the trope?
posted by crazy with stars at 8:31 AM on February 27, 2015
Did they just transplant organs or the whole bodies in The Clonus Horror?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:45 AM on February 27, 2015
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:45 AM on February 27, 2015
Hope we've conquered aging by then or there'll be all these old-looking heads walking around on young-looking bodies.
"I am Calypso, and I thank you for playing Twisted Metal."
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:58 AM on February 27, 2015
"I am Calypso, and I thank you for playing Twisted Metal."
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:58 AM on February 27, 2015
crazy with stars: "I wonder who was the first SF writer to use the trope?"
Heinlein in his future history is the earliest I can think of though there is plenty of unwilling whole body donation (in pieces mostly though at least one brain/spinal cord transplant) in Larry Niven's known space stories, especial around Gil the ARM.
posted by Mitheral at 10:02 PM on March 3, 2015
Heinlein in his future history is the earliest I can think of though there is plenty of unwilling whole body donation (in pieces mostly though at least one brain/spinal cord transplant) in Larry Niven's known space stories, especial around Gil the ARM.
posted by Mitheral at 10:02 PM on March 3, 2015
crazy with stars: The Vorkosigan Saga includes reliable gene splicing, transplants and cloning. At one point our heros rescue a group of healthy, intelligent, teenagers who are gene engineered body donors. The donors are killed once they are mature enough to accept the adult size brain of their owner. *shudder*The writer of the screenplay for The Bride of Frankenstein, 1932. IIRC, the monster forced Victor to use his own bride's body (which the monster killed for that purpose) for the monster's "Bride". This is a slight variation on Mary Shelley Wollstonecraft's actual Frankenstein story; the monster there requested a bride, Victor complied but then destroyed "her" before reincarnating the parts, and the monster killed his bride in retribution (but no one was made from her parts).
This is also the premise of Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go. I wonder who was the first SF writer to use the trope?
The only missing part is that Victor's bride wasn't "grown" for the purpose of housing the creature.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:07 AM on March 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
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posted by ocschwar at 12:55 PM on February 26, 2015 [14 favorites]