Begging mercies for their sins
March 4, 2015 3:43 PM Subscribe
Black Sabbath’s Tony Iommi has written a letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo, in hopes of swaying him to stop the impending execution of two Australian men in their prison system. According to the Sydney Morning Herald, Iommi joins the many international appeals urging the Indonesian president to save the lives of the two convicts.
Wow…maybe this could become the Live Aid, of Metal.
For Whom the Bell Tolls...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 4:29 PM on March 4, 2015
For Whom the Bell Tolls...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 4:29 PM on March 4, 2015
Indonesia a Muslim nation and drugs a serious no no. that said, I do not believe in capital punishment, but what of all the unknown prisoners who have been executed? we focus here on two men we know and like for what they have achieved .
posted by Postroad at 4:49 PM on March 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 4:49 PM on March 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Surely this...
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:51 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:51 PM on March 4, 2015
Last I was there, there was a huge DEATH PENALTY FOR BRINGING DRUGS TO BALI banner hanging near the baggage pickup. It's not exactly a secret that the SE Asian countries are hard on drug smugglers...
posted by mrbigmuscles at 4:52 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by mrbigmuscles at 4:52 PM on March 4, 2015
It's not too late to swap PM Abbott and Attorney-General Brandis for the drug smugglers. Or maybe the entire Australian Federal Police Force, who have been accused of betraying them to the Indonesians.
posted by emf at 5:09 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by emf at 5:09 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm very pro-legalization, and generally pro-drug, but it's not like it's any secret that Indonesia executes drug dealers, and these guys were selling a lot of heroin, which really isn't a very nice drug.
These guys had their due process. Sucks for them but they knew the risks. Absent any evidence of their innocence, I'd rather we spend the effort on the vast number of Americans being brutalized by their own system for trivial offenses.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
These guys had their due process. Sucks for them but they knew the risks. Absent any evidence of their innocence, I'd rather we spend the effort on the vast number of Americans being brutalized by their own system for trivial offenses.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
Just posted in the past hour or so: Bali nine: Indonesian president Joko Widodo says executions will not be this week
posted by argonauta at 5:17 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by argonauta at 5:17 PM on March 4, 2015
(I'm not saying there's direct cause and effect there, but even a brief stay provides more hope than none at all.)
Also, the story is practically compelling me to watch Brokedown Palace again (even though Thailand) and then I'm going to bawl at the end like I always do. And then maybe Return to Paradise (Malaysia)..... No, forget that, I can't watch either one.
Well done, Tony (and others). I will hope for the best possible outcome.
posted by argonauta at 5:20 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, the story is practically compelling me to watch Brokedown Palace again (even though Thailand) and then I'm going to bawl at the end like I always do. And then maybe Return to Paradise (Malaysia)..... No, forget that, I can't watch either one.
Well done, Tony (and others). I will hope for the best possible outcome.
posted by argonauta at 5:20 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't understand particularly why these guys are the target of clemency. They didn't smuggle heroin on a lark, it was part of an organized attempt to smuggle 18 pounds of heroin into a country well-known for their archaic drug smuggling laws. I can understand being merciful if they were unknowing of their crimes, or perhaps were younger, but they knew the rules and willingly broke them. In fact, I've rarely been to SE Asia in the last 10 years and each time the magnitude of drug smuggling as an offense was seriously emphasized. There are other prisoners, wrongfully accused and rotting away that have nowhere the attention these two (leaders of the Bali Nine, who attempted to smuggle $3.1 million USD worth of Heroin* into Indonesia)
*Having worked first-hand with heroin users may or may not have informed my above opinion about these two.
posted by kurosawa's pal at 5:34 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
*Having worked first-hand with heroin users may or may not have informed my above opinion about these two.
posted by kurosawa's pal at 5:34 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Article in which the Australian Federal Police explain why they turned the information provided by Scott Rush's father over to the Indonesian authorities rather than waiting to arrest the Bali Nine when they returned to Australia.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:38 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:38 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
attempt to smuggle 18 pounds of heroin into a country well-known for their archaic drug smuggling laws…
attempted to smuggle $3.1 million USD worth of Heroin* into Indonesia
No, into Australia from Indonesia.
Related: the original thread, nearly ten years ago.
posted by unliteral at 6:02 PM on March 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
attempted to smuggle $3.1 million USD worth of Heroin* into Indonesia
No, into Australia from Indonesia.
Related: the original thread, nearly ten years ago.
posted by unliteral at 6:02 PM on March 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
That defense by the afp is pathetic, and for me, that's the real target here. Australia should not interfere with another country's domestic policies, especially not Indonesia given the history, but there is no excuse for the afp arranging an execution by proxy.
Tony and all his stupid Bolshie shit pissing off Indonesia since he got elected. These two people will die in part because of it.
posted by smoke at 6:38 PM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Tony and all his stupid Bolshie shit pissing off Indonesia since he got elected. These two people will die in part because of it.
posted by smoke at 6:38 PM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Just last month, Indonesia executed five foreigners (from Brazil, the Netherlands, Vietnam, Malawi and Nigeria) and one of their own citizens for drug crimes. Brazil and the Netherlands recalled their ambassadors in response.
Given that the Indonesian government is committed to carrying out capital punishment for drug offenders at the expense of good relations with some pretty powerful economies, it seems unlikely the Australians will be spared.
posted by riruro at 6:59 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Given that the Indonesian government is committed to carrying out capital punishment for drug offenders at the expense of good relations with some pretty powerful economies, it seems unlikely the Australians will be spared.
posted by riruro at 6:59 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
BBC: Australia offers prisoner swap for Bali Nine convicts
posted by argonauta at 11:30 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by argonauta at 11:30 PM on March 4, 2015
The AFP are fucking arseholes for their role in this, but I would like to see these people also begging clemency for the other eight people who will be shot alongside the Bali Nine Two.
posted by pompomtom at 12:16 AM on March 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by pompomtom at 12:16 AM on March 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
This must be somewhat humiliating for Abbott, an authoritarian tough-guy by instinct, forced to offer tawdry bribes out of fear of the electoral consequences of two bogans being shot on his watch.
I'm half-expecting Widodo to keep stringing him along, turning him down each time, and a few days after the two have been executed, announce clemency for the next drug trafficker in line, or even a freeze of executions and rethinking of the death penalty, just to rub Australia's nose in it (“that's what you get if your navy cross into our territorial waters for political expediency”).
posted by acb at 1:45 AM on March 5, 2015
I'm half-expecting Widodo to keep stringing him along, turning him down each time, and a few days after the two have been executed, announce clemency for the next drug trafficker in line, or even a freeze of executions and rethinking of the death penalty, just to rub Australia's nose in it (“that's what you get if your navy cross into our territorial waters for political expediency”).
posted by acb at 1:45 AM on March 5, 2015
I doubt he posesses the capacity for humiliation.
posted by pompomtom at 1:52 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by pompomtom at 1:52 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm against the death penalty. Life in prison for these Heroin dealers would be apt, considering all the lives they directly or indirectly ruined.
posted by Renoroc at 8:25 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 8:25 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Possibly, though should historic life sentences be commuted once (or perhaps some years after) a harm-minimisation approach is brought in and heroin is legalised and regulated?
Apparently, before heroin was criminalised, the extent of heroin addiction as a social problem was minor; a few war veterans with PTSD or the occasional well-off socialite shot up, but given the low cost of a legal pharmaceutical substance, this did not extend beyond a personal medical problem.
posted by acb at 4:12 PM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Apparently, before heroin was criminalised, the extent of heroin addiction as a social problem was minor; a few war veterans with PTSD or the occasional well-off socialite shot up, but given the low cost of a legal pharmaceutical substance, this did not extend beyond a personal medical problem.
posted by acb at 4:12 PM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Given that the Indonesian government is committed to carrying out capital punishment for drug offenders at the expense of good relations with some pretty powerful economies, it seems unlikely the Australians will be spared.
Australia has a larger economy than all the others listed, should that matter, and is immeasurably more important in trade because of the proximity.
But I don't think that matters much, as I think the issue has become more about internal Indonesian politics, and the need to be seen to be even handed *especially* with Australians.
Tony Abbott has displayed his usual deft botching of the issues, but I doubt there was much he could do anyway.
I strongly oppose the death penalty, but if I was an Indonesian, I think would be reluctant to offer these criminals any special clemency.
posted by bystander at 12:02 AM on March 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Australia has a larger economy than all the others listed, should that matter, and is immeasurably more important in trade because of the proximity.
But I don't think that matters much, as I think the issue has become more about internal Indonesian politics, and the need to be seen to be even handed *especially* with Australians.
Tony Abbott has displayed his usual deft botching of the issues, but I doubt there was much he could do anyway.
I strongly oppose the death penalty, but if I was an Indonesian, I think would be reluctant to offer these criminals any special clemency.
posted by bystander at 12:02 AM on March 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seconding what bystander said (you really think Malawi, Nigeria et al are 'pretty powerful economies' compared to Australia?!).
Anyway, I don't really care about the politics involved. I oppose the death penalty for anybody, anywhere. It is monstrous.
posted by Salamander at 1:10 AM on March 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyway, I don't really care about the politics involved. I oppose the death penalty for anybody, anywhere. It is monstrous.
posted by Salamander at 1:10 AM on March 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
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