If they don't allow this to happen, the players, it doesn't happen.
March 9, 2015 2:46 PM Subscribe
An oral history of the 2009-10 Kentucky basketball season. Before those guys, the narrative on "one-and-done" basketball players was almost always the same. The kids were selfish and egotistical, using college only as a place to pad their stats before inevitably departing for the NBA. They didn't care about their team or their school, or class at all; heck, the commonly held belief was that most kids stopped attending classes after the first semester (if they went at all). As it turned out, one-and-done players could come to a school, play hard, work as a team, go to class and win big.
On the other hand, fuck John Calapari for real.
He's a crooked man who runs crooked programs and skips town before the NCAA lays down the smackdown. I don't even doubt that his program at Kentucky is straight, but it's a shame he had to leave two other schools mired in recruitment scandals and cratered programs while slinking his way up the ladder.
posted by absalom at 3:22 PM on March 9, 2015
He's a crooked man who runs crooked programs and skips town before the NCAA lays down the smackdown. I don't even doubt that his program at Kentucky is straight, but it's a shame he had to leave two other schools mired in recruitment scandals and cratered programs while slinking his way up the ladder.
posted by absalom at 3:22 PM on March 9, 2015
Methinks your ire is aimed at the wrong people. There's a reason that "fuck the fucking NCAA" is a motto for me.
(waves little "Team Kessler" pennant)
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:31 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
(waves little "Team Kessler" pennant)
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:31 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fucking propaganda. Calipari is scum. The only coach ever to have two final four appearances erased at two different schools.
Don't get me wrong the NCAA is a bunch of hypocrites but the system Calipari enables is disgusting. Its predicated on the AAU system and the relationships the players started making when they were ten with assorted Svengali who basically want a tail on their income if they make the NBA. Calipari makes sure that happens so the "coaches" are happy to steer their players to him.
posted by JPD at 8:09 PM on March 9, 2015
Don't get me wrong the NCAA is a bunch of hypocrites but the system Calipari enables is disgusting. Its predicated on the AAU system and the relationships the players started making when they were ten with assorted Svengali who basically want a tail on their income if they make the NBA. Calipari makes sure that happens so the "coaches" are happy to steer their players to him.
posted by JPD at 8:09 PM on March 9, 2015
Sure, don't read the article and just spout the same tired lines, that's cool too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
A Kentucky fan site.? Unfortunately that link is not working correctly. But really whatever it has to say is problematic
I did read your article. In the post tho. Its propaganda. Not even good propaganda
I'm not saying the one and dones are bad people. Far from it, and it doesnt make me feel better about them if John Wall went to class. They are essentially kids after all. And the one and done rule is hideously unreasonable
But their handlers and Calipari are bad people. John Wall is an especially amusing case here because his AAU team was coached by two brothers. One of whom leveraged the role into a coaching job at Baylor (a school aspiring to the AAU shadiness of Cal) and the other actually became an agent - the reason Wall had to sit out a game at the beginning of the year. And they latched onto him at 12.
Of.course Wall escaped to the Worldwide Wes pipeline thanks to LeBron and that's how he ended up at UK.
I
posted by JPD at 10:13 PM on March 9, 2015
I did read your article. In the post tho. Its propaganda. Not even good propaganda
I'm not saying the one and dones are bad people. Far from it, and it doesnt make me feel better about them if John Wall went to class. They are essentially kids after all. And the one and done rule is hideously unreasonable
But their handlers and Calipari are bad people. John Wall is an especially amusing case here because his AAU team was coached by two brothers. One of whom leveraged the role into a coaching job at Baylor (a school aspiring to the AAU shadiness of Cal) and the other actually became an agent - the reason Wall had to sit out a game at the beginning of the year. And they latched onto him at 12.
Of.course Wall escaped to the Worldwide Wes pipeline thanks to LeBron and that's how he ended up at UK.
I
posted by JPD at 10:13 PM on March 9, 2015
Sorry, your spittle is showing, Im not following you.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:19 PM on March 9, 2015
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:19 PM on March 9, 2015
There's the corrected linked, comments by Jay Bilas about unhinged and fact free attacks on Kentucky, not that you'll read that either.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:23 PM on March 9, 2015
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:23 PM on March 9, 2015
John Wall is an especially amusing case here because his AAU team was coached by two brothers. One of whom leveraged the role into a coaching job at Baylor (a school aspiring to the AAU shadiness of Cal) and the other actually became an agent - the reason Wall had to sit out a game at the beginning of the year. And they latched onto him at 12.
And your point? It seems that you're upset that there are people who actually understand what the hell is going on, and aren't engaged in the bullshit pretend games that everyone else is doing. And they make all those people uncomfortable by pointing out that they're the honest ones.
And frankly, your anger and disgust that one of these men became an agent - a person whose job it is to represent the interests of the players who are their clients - is really reprehensible. Because the NCAA's bullshit rules regarding agents aren't just unconscionable, but out and out illegal, as in "a judge in a court of law held that these rules illegally restrained the right to counsel for the players." The only reason that the NCAA won that battle was because they were able to drown the plaintiff in paper during the damages phase, and force him to settle in an agreement that nullified that ruling. (This, by the way, highlights one of the more brilliant parts of Kessler's legal strategy - after seeing how the NCAA uses the damages phase to snatch victory from the jows of defeat, he elected to not pursue damages, closing that avenue to the NCAA. Which is one of the reasons that lawsuit scares the living shit out of the NCAA.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:18 PM on March 9, 2015
And your point? It seems that you're upset that there are people who actually understand what the hell is going on, and aren't engaged in the bullshit pretend games that everyone else is doing. And they make all those people uncomfortable by pointing out that they're the honest ones.
And frankly, your anger and disgust that one of these men became an agent - a person whose job it is to represent the interests of the players who are their clients - is really reprehensible. Because the NCAA's bullshit rules regarding agents aren't just unconscionable, but out and out illegal, as in "a judge in a court of law held that these rules illegally restrained the right to counsel for the players." The only reason that the NCAA won that battle was because they were able to drown the plaintiff in paper during the damages phase, and force him to settle in an agreement that nullified that ruling. (This, by the way, highlights one of the more brilliant parts of Kessler's legal strategy - after seeing how the NCAA uses the damages phase to snatch victory from the jows of defeat, he elected to not pursue damages, closing that avenue to the NCAA. Which is one of the reasons that lawsuit scares the living shit out of the NCAA.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:18 PM on March 9, 2015
It's typical of the pseudo socialism of American Big Sport that individual athletes desires to maximise their earning potential in a career with a time limit is seen as "selfish", but the bureaucracy around those athletes (coaches et all) are seen as heroes for making six million figure salaries working with them.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:27 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by MartinWisse at 11:27 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's typical of the pseudo socialism of American Big Sport that individual athletes desires to maximise their earning potential in a career with a time limit is seen as "selfish", but the bureaucracy around those athletes (coaches et all) are seen as heroes for making six million figure salaries working with them.
But only the coaches who toe the company line. The ones who actually embrace the reality of the system for what it is, like Calipari - they are to be condemned as exploitative assholes.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:53 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
But only the coaches who toe the company line. The ones who actually embrace the reality of the system for what it is, like Calipari - they are to be condemned as exploitative assholes.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:53 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am dubious of claims of academic commitment and integrity coming from the UK basketball program (or, really, any other collegiate sports behemoth) and its alums: my father paid his way through grad school at UK by taking tests and completing assignments for the basketball team. I don't care for university sports at this level--in my experience, it seriously harms the social environment of the university for all but those who play or those who cheer--but I think the stars on Wall et al.'s level should be paid handsomely for their efforts, and if they only last a year because of academic failure or being recruited, so be it.
I also really dislike the way basketball fans fight with one another (with comments in this thread serving as a perfect example). Especially in Kentucky (maybe? or it might be the case everywhere, but I'm only familiar with KY?), where the quiet subtext of a huge amount of those fights is class-based and racial division.
Finally, I'll toss a big 'fuck you' to Calipari in particular for his ties to the coal industry.
posted by still bill at 4:06 AM on March 10, 2015
I also really dislike the way basketball fans fight with one another (with comments in this thread serving as a perfect example). Especially in Kentucky (maybe? or it might be the case everywhere, but I'm only familiar with KY?), where the quiet subtext of a huge amount of those fights is class-based and racial division.
Finally, I'll toss a big 'fuck you' to Calipari in particular for his ties to the coal industry.
posted by still bill at 4:06 AM on March 10, 2015
six million figure salaries
That's more or less the combined GDP of the entire Virgo Supercluster.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 8:22 AM on March 10, 2015
That's more or less the combined GDP of the entire Virgo Supercluster.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 8:22 AM on March 10, 2015
I haven't finished reading the article yet (I'm about half done), but wanted to say thanks for the post. Both my parents graduated from UK (and met there), so I've been a fan since before I could walk. (I don't think I really had much of a choice.) I'm not a fan of one and done, but fixing it would probably mean paying Division 1 athletes. That's not a change I see happening anytime soon.
I'm not a particular fan of Calipari's, but he does know how to recruit (especially, it seems, for one and dones). I liked the platoon system, for as long as it lasted.
At the moment (and probably for the next several hours), I have the Nation's Medicine Store jingle in my head.
posted by minsies at 10:55 AM on March 10, 2015
I'm not a particular fan of Calipari's, but he does know how to recruit (especially, it seems, for one and dones). I liked the platoon system, for as long as it lasted.
At the moment (and probably for the next several hours), I have the Nation's Medicine Store jingle in my head.
posted by minsies at 10:55 AM on March 10, 2015
I'm not a fan of one and done, but fixing it would probably mean paying Division 1 athletes. That's not a change I see happening anytime soon.
Oh, you may be surprised. If the Kessler lawsuit goes through, it will absolutely destroy the NCAA's ability to restrict the payment of the players.
Which will pretty much destroy the NCAA, period.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:34 AM on March 10, 2015
Oh, you may be surprised. If the Kessler lawsuit goes through, it will absolutely destroy the NCAA's ability to restrict the payment of the players.
Which will pretty much destroy the NCAA, period.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:34 AM on March 10, 2015
Oh - huh. I don't live in the US any longer (and don't tend to follow NCAA sports aside from the odd streamed game that's on at a reasonable time), so I didn't know anything about the Kessler thing.
Interesting!
posted by minsies at 12:29 PM on March 10, 2015
Interesting!
posted by minsies at 12:29 PM on March 10, 2015
Er, obviously the Kessler thing is in your earlier comments. Sorry I missed it!
posted by minsies at 12:29 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by minsies at 12:29 PM on March 10, 2015
Yeah, the Kessler lawsuit is pretty much an arrow aimed right at the heart of the NCAA. It asserts that the NCAA and the Power 5 form an illegal wage fixing cartel, holding compensation to college athletes to cost of attendance.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:50 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:50 PM on March 10, 2015
The fact the dude is an agent is a sign that he wants to get paid for the relationship he began developing when the kid was 12. If you think its cool that dudes are out there looking for twelve year olds to eventually profit from when they hit it big well then god bless.
You should read "Playing Their Hearts Out" before you offer up some defense of what's going on here. These people are terrible terrible people. Everyone is getting paid except the players. And then they go off and get taken advantage of again by their agents when they go to the NBA. And more often than not, the agent was chosen because he'll kick money back to the handlers. This is as much an indictment of the system the NCAA enabled as it is of AAU, Cal, et al.
The problem isn't that Calipari has embraced one and dones at all. One and done is terrible. Let people enter the league when they can. Let the players get paid. Im pro kessler.
Just don't take advantage of 12 year olds. That's what Calipari does, enables . But hey undefeated.
More odious : Bobby Knight or Calipari? Quite a choice.
posted by JPD at 7:39 PM on March 10, 2015
You should read "Playing Their Hearts Out" before you offer up some defense of what's going on here. These people are terrible terrible people. Everyone is getting paid except the players. And then they go off and get taken advantage of again by their agents when they go to the NBA. And more often than not, the agent was chosen because he'll kick money back to the handlers. This is as much an indictment of the system the NCAA enabled as it is of AAU, Cal, et al.
The problem isn't that Calipari has embraced one and dones at all. One and done is terrible. Let people enter the league when they can. Let the players get paid. Im pro kessler.
Just don't take advantage of 12 year olds. That's what Calipari does, enables . But hey undefeated.
More odious : Bobby Knight or Calipari? Quite a choice.
posted by JPD at 7:39 PM on March 10, 2015
So, are you against child actors?
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:01 AM on March 11, 2015
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:01 AM on March 11, 2015
The problem is that we've created a two-faced culture when it comes to the development of professional athletes, ignoring that these players are professionals from a young age (and they pretty much have to be, to hone their skills.) The reason that exploitation occurs is because our society punishes the players if they try to extract any of the value of their labor for themselves, just so the pretense of "amateurism" can be maintained.
So, once again, you're aiming at the wrong target. If you want to get rid of exploitation in the AAU, then you want to tear down the bullshit edifice of the NCAA, so that you can let the players actually be the young professional athletes they are.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:19 AM on March 11, 2015
So, once again, you're aiming at the wrong target. If you want to get rid of exploitation in the AAU, then you want to tear down the bullshit edifice of the NCAA, so that you can let the players actually be the young professional athletes they are.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:19 AM on March 11, 2015
So, are you against child actors?
And golfers / tennis players who turn pro at age 14? In Europe, players sign on to club teams at 14 routinely, I presume all those transactions are tainted with "kickbacks" and all those poor, poor millionaire children are being "taken advantage of again by their agents", yes?
Hysterical handwringing over amateurism has a very specific context to American basketball and football, wonder why that is?
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:20 PM on March 11, 2015
And golfers / tennis players who turn pro at age 14? In Europe, players sign on to club teams at 14 routinely, I presume all those transactions are tainted with "kickbacks" and all those poor, poor millionaire children are being "taken advantage of again by their agents", yes?
Hysterical handwringing over amateurism has a very specific context to American basketball and football, wonder why that is?
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:20 PM on March 11, 2015
the 14 year olds are getting paid at 14. That's good. That's what should happen.
And yes, I find the syndicates who fund 12 year old latin american soccer players in exchange for a future slice of their earnings problematic, only because I think in the long-run it puts less money in the players pocket where it belongs..
I do want to tear down the NCAA, because it enables the AAU - but what Calipari does isn't tearing down the NCAA - its working withing the NCAA to take advantage of their rules. His actions aren't about bringing down the NCAA - its about him winning and getting paid. If you killed off the NCAA and you killed off the AAU stuff, his advantages go away.
posted by JPD at 2:39 PM on March 11, 2015
And yes, I find the syndicates who fund 12 year old latin american soccer players in exchange for a future slice of their earnings problematic, only because I think in the long-run it puts less money in the players pocket where it belongs..
I do want to tear down the NCAA, because it enables the AAU - but what Calipari does isn't tearing down the NCAA - its working withing the NCAA to take advantage of their rules. His actions aren't about bringing down the NCAA - its about him winning and getting paid. If you killed off the NCAA and you killed off the AAU stuff, his advantages go away.
posted by JPD at 2:39 PM on March 11, 2015
Child Actors get paid. I'm against Child Actors Parents spending all their money.
posted by JPD at 2:41 PM on March 11, 2015
posted by JPD at 2:41 PM on March 11, 2015
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Peevy: John Wall in that second semester, I think he either had a 4.0 or 3.8 (GPA), in a year where he was the one guy on that team that knew he was probably pretty much going to leave. The guy got his work done. That's part of it.
Wall: Even after the season was over, we were still doing schoolwork and stuff. Guys stayed in school.
Peevy: We immediately debunked that myth, that they're only going to be here a short time and they don't care about this university.
Calipari: My point here is, we've had 19 guys in five years (go to the NBA), and we'll probably have five, six or seven from this year's team. And those kids have reached their dreams and not at the expense of academics, not at the expense of hurting the basketball program.
And this is why, even as a U of L alumna, Calipari and his staff will always have my respect. Also, I totally forgot about that Pikeville-to-Paducah remark.
31 - 0 this season, y'all! It's been a fun ride.
posted by magstheaxe at 3:13 PM on March 9, 2015 [1 favorite]