WHAT KIND OF HAT IS IT? I call it a fedora.
May 2, 2015 7:56 PM   Subscribe

 
For me, getting dressed for work involves finding the least-wrinkled pants and shirt out of the clothes heap at the end of my bed.

And I'm an "adult" with a "real job".

It would take some adjusting to get used to spending my current yearly clothing budget on a single outfit.
posted by davey_darling at 8:03 PM on May 2, 2015 [14 favorites]


Even if I had the budget for those lovely clothes, I'd look like an unmade bed by 9:10am every day.
posted by xingcat at 8:05 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man...

Well done, all of them. I enjoyed this article because it was nice to see the "what are you wearing" question turned toward men.
posted by kimberussell at 8:07 PM on May 2, 2015 [11 favorites]


Looks like Wyatt Mitchell lives in a Coen Bros. film. Can't say that I blame him.
posted by valkane at 8:09 PM on May 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


I like the guy who's just "I think it's H&M." Like, one of those guys stopped him in the elevator to ask about his outfit and he's just thinking "hey, I just work here."

And the guy who talks about how he's had his jeans for a year and they haven't faded? That's not a terribly rare or remarkable thing in my cheap-denim neck of the woods. I wonder what his basis for comparison is.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:14 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Plus, how fucking cool is the name Wyatt Mitchell? I want to go work for The New Yorker just so I can get in arguments with him about byline treatments and say stuff like "Look here, Wyatt!"
posted by valkane at 8:17 PM on May 2, 2015 [12 favorites]


Oh, and Fred Kim, 22? That's not a fedora. It's hard to tell exactly what kind of hat it is from that angle, but it's not a fedora. It might be the same style of hat that Homsar wears.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:19 PM on May 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Summon the meteors.
posted by Behemoth at 8:32 PM on May 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Compare to NPR.
posted by backseatpilot at 8:36 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


So these guys all get their hats at Target?
posted by valkane at 8:38 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


in Their Natural Habitat

I was expecting something different.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:42 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Wyatt Mitchell looks cool with that floral pin and suit plus boots. Like really cool.
posted by oceanjesse at 8:56 PM on May 2, 2015 [9 favorites]


"Look here, Wyatt," I said. "That kerning has got to change or there'll be hell to pay."
"Can't do it." he said, his eyes narrowing. "Is that an Akubra?"

I eased my hat back with one finger. The patina of his boots propped up on the desk matched the dusty brim of my hat.

"I'll never tell."
"You're fired, cowboy."

So, I moved to Montana. I lived in Thomas McGuane's garage for a spell, but the phone rang a lot, and it was always Margot Kidder. She didn't make a lot of sense, but then, neither did I.

Jim Harrison showed up, and we went fishing, and cooked some steaks. He told me leaving New York was a mistake, one that he had made plenty of times.

I slept in Jim's Toyota for a while, but it smelled like bird dogs, so I moved to France and slept on a couch in a palace. Guy de la Valdene's mom hated the way I cooked sweetbreads, so they kicked me out.

So here I am, thumbing my way back to New York. But not to Wyatt. No sir. Not me.
posted by valkane at 9:05 PM on May 2, 2015 [49 favorites]


Why, hello there, Style Section. Haven't seen you in a while. Shall we talk about how to wear a floral tie with a gingham plaid?
posted by betweenthebars at 9:12 PM on May 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


I have no idea what's going on with the floral + gingham. I kinda liked the tie though. Reminded me of grandma's old couch. If the tie smelled like old cigarette smoke and peanut butter cookies, it would be the perfect nostalgia piece for me.

Not only does Wyatt Mitchell have the best name, he also has the best outfit, by far. If I ever had to wear a suit, I'd want the boots combo too.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:21 PM on May 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


Wow, I hate everything about this.
posted by jnnla at 9:35 PM on May 2, 2015 [21 favorites]


People are not wearing enough hats.
posted by uosuaq at 9:36 PM on May 2, 2015 [9 favorites]


1. If I thought I could pull of a Prince of Wales check 3 piece, I would.
2. Not wearing socks is unhygienic.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:37 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Boring boring boring
posted by Mizu at 9:38 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


No reddit staff?
posted by benzenedream at 9:39 PM on May 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


I've been an awkward 6'8" and a badly distributed 300+ lbs since the age of 17. I'm in my 30's and my personal style is "does it fit?" Half the reason I got into tech was the general disregard for things like clothing.

It's a bit easier to get things other than t-shirts and jeans online these days (the only way I can afford to buy clothes) but I've spent so much of my life divorced from fashion that, even being given a platinum card and a person tailor, I wouldn't know where to start in developing a personal style.

And I can't shake the instinct that tells me that men who have one are kind of pricks (and for the most part, this article isn't disabusing me of that).
posted by Reyturner at 9:40 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I am pretty amazed by the knee-jerk reaction of hate! But I guess style is a stupid, feminine thing for stupid females... (?)
posted by stoneandstar at 9:46 PM on May 2, 2015 [24 favorites]


Wyatt Mitchell looks cool with that floral pin and suit plus boots. Like really cool.

Except his pants are too short, unless he's hiking them up a bit in the photo so we can see the boots better.
posted by Justinian at 9:51 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Pork pie hat, fashionisto!
posted by Oyéah at 9:51 PM on May 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


I am pretty amazed by the knee-jerk reaction of hate! But I guess style is a stupid, feminine thing for stupid females...

No, people here pretty much hate it for everybody.

The idea that one might appreciate the effort of people who don't just roll out of bed and throw on the same jeans and t-shirt that they have been wearing since the 90s seems to bring out a titanic rage in some folks.
posted by Justinian at 9:52 PM on May 2, 2015 [30 favorites]


I'm a big, burly 45-yo, and it's difficult to buy nice things in Sydney if you're not 25 and super-svelte. I buy my shirts (and everything else) at Hallensteins, a New Zealand menswear chain, during my regular visits there with my Kiwi wife. It helps that my wife has very good dress-sense. A bit like having my own stylist (I suspect my situation is not unique).
posted by misterbee at 9:55 PM on May 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Hard to tell for sure but it might be trilby. I don't even wear hats that don't have a snapback or velcro and even I know that's not a fucking fedora.
posted by MikeMc at 10:00 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


The only thing worse than people who wear fedoras is people who can't tell whether or not they are wearing fedoras.
posted by Justinian at 10:01 PM on May 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


The first guy carries himself like a 12-year old kid. Doesn't matter what you wear if you do that.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 10:23 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I have a pair of the Iron Rangers Mr. Mitchell is wearing, and I love them dearly. They don't look like his, and I doubt they ever will - I love them way too much to actually wear outside the house. I just put them on and wander from room to room, staring at their matte-finish toe-caps and imagining the scratches they'd get if I wore them outside and how they'd grow handsome with every scrape and scratch and scuff. Maybe tomorrow.
posted by malthusan at 10:41 PM on May 2, 2015 [11 favorites]


I dress like shit, but I do like to look at men's clothes. One of my kids went through a fashion-first phase a while ago, and he was all with the no socks so I always snicker a little at grown ups with no socks (except times when you should have no socks). Loved that guy's Club Monaco shirt. He looks so graceful!
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 10:44 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Bill Wackerman is the true hero of this article. Looks great, looks professional, looks fun.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 10:55 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Is that an Akubra?"

How dare you. I drive an Infinbiti.
posted by The Tensor at 11:11 PM on May 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


My work wear is what, if I lived in a coastal city, might be called "lumbersexual," though worn without the irony. I like photo sets like these; it is utterly divorced from my life but the outfits are pretty and the people always have fun little stories about their accessories.

Every so often I accidentally end up in a setting where everyone is dressed way more fashion-forward and the sudden out-of-place feeling gives me a real lurch in my stomach.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:17 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I have very particular hair, so it takes me 30 minutes to do it properly and put wax in it and let it set.

Holy krap. I just realized my hair is not particular.
posted by hal_c_on at 11:19 PM on May 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


people who don't just roll out of bed and throw on the same jeans and t-shirt that they have been wearing since the 90s

You BRUTE!
I've been rocking this particular look since the 1980s (and this particular jumper dates from '89 if I recall).

But I guess style is a stupid, feminine thing for stupid females...

Well, I think it's stupid for me. Each to their own.
And it does seem to be feminine.
The number of 30-70 year old men I know who get told what to wear by their partners (and follow the directions) is astounding.

But I thought the article was interesting, less for the fashion questions (they are always boring), but more for the workplace information.
posted by Mezentian at 11:56 PM on May 2, 2015


I always snicker a little at grown ups with no socks (except times when you should have no socks)

Those times are as follows:

1) The Beach
2) That is all
posted by Justinian at 12:05 AM on May 3, 2015 [9 favorites]


Agree with everyone else that Wyatt is killing it in terms of actual fashion.

Meanwhile, Elias Adepoju wins my vote hands-down, for being all "I think I got this at H&M; honestly, I don't really care. Why are you asking me this? Wait. Are you from the Times? Who let you in here?"
posted by schmod at 12:28 AM on May 3, 2015 [14 favorites]


Also lol that he's the only actual business division person in there. "Nobody cares what I wear, I'm in charge of revenue."
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:37 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Assuming I've found the right Wyatt Mitchell, seems like being a snappy dresser is the least of his accomplishments.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:00 AM on May 3, 2015 [6 favorites]


I love scrolling down to Elias and it's almost like a deadpan "Yeah, I work in an office full of peacocks."
posted by blueberry at 1:10 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Ah nice. And I love that flowery tie and gingham shirt and those blue blue eyes and that pretty pretty man

*disappears in a flurry of objectivising*
posted by glasseyes at 2:45 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


YOU’RE CARRYING A HAT. WHAT’S UP WITH THAT?
I was outside smoking. The hat is how I transport my cigarettes.


Oh is it really? How interesting and not at all insanely pretentious. Well I have to go now and talk to a person who isn't you ok bye.
posted by billiebee at 2:52 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


YOU’RE CARRYING A HAT. WHAT’S UP WITH THAT?
I was outside smoking. The hat is how I transport my cigarettes.


Hopefully this will become some kind of internet joke, like https://twitter.com/WeWantPlates. Or those games where you substitute nouns for other nouns:

YOU’RE CARRYING A SAUSAGE. WHAT’S UP WITH THAT?
I was outside smoking. The sausage is how I transport my cigarettes.
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 3:10 AM on May 3, 2015 [8 favorites]


The hat is how I transport my cigarettes.

Pockets are so last season.
posted by Mezentian at 3:10 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


No, people here pretty much hate it for everybody.

I am, personally, convinced that a significant part of our distaste for fashion, or even caring about personal appearance, is because it is regarded as a feminine concern.

Think about other issues of personal presentation, for example linguistic choices about dialect and vocabulary, or fixing typos in Metafilter posts. We don't regard it as silly and self-aggrandising to make sure we use the right shibboleths to assure our employers of our status, we regard it as both astute and natural. I think a significant part of that difference is the lack of a feminine classification for that behaviour.

And, of course, men are expected to visually present themselves well. But we are expected to conceal our desire to look nice, either by pretending our style decisions are functional, or by claiming that they are formal. It seems to me that as long as men have an excuse to show that our efforts aren't "girly", we are allowed to care about our appearance. It's only once it strays into non-masculine territory that it becomes contemptible.

I think it's interesting to note how much more praise Wyatt Mitchell is receiving than others. I agree he looks good, but he also looks manly, and I wonder how significant that is.
posted by howfar at 4:02 AM on May 3, 2015 [22 favorites]


The hat is how I transport my cigarettes.

Oh, man, I hope that means while he's wearing the hat. Like Paddington's emergency marmalade sandwich.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 4:25 AM on May 3, 2015 [14 favorites]


I really enjoyed this. Even though the guy with the "lapel pin" needs to realize he's wearing a brooch. Just own it.
posted by frykitty at 4:29 AM on May 3, 2015 [9 favorites]


I am, personally, convinced that a significant part of our distaste for fashion, or even caring about personal appearance, is because it is regarded as a feminine concern.

I hate fashion (and, yes, it is " a feminine concern"), but I loathe sport as much if not more (a masculine concern).

I'm not sure "silly women's fancies" is that big a motivator, especially in the "post-metrosexual/lumbersexual" age.
It might have been in the past.
posted by Mezentian at 4:48 AM on May 3, 2015


Floral tie guy is also rocking his arm hair.

As a girl, I show my forearms all the time (buttoned-up long sleeves are so restrictive!), but on reflection, guys don't seem to do it a lot. Is there a unwritten rule for male business attire that I don't know about, or is it more of a personal comfort thing?
posted by mantecol at 4:54 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Plus, how fucking cool is the name Wyatt Mitchell?

It's no Doak Sergent.
(I love US names!)
posted by billiebee at 5:13 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


I resent fashion for men largely because, while there is such a thing as a comfortable basic black dress for women, the basic black dress for men is always a variation of the fucking suit, and I am in a suit like most cats are on a leash, which is to say a whirling seizure of panic and rage, though I usually manage to keep that whirling seizure of panic and rage contained within my head as I stand at the wedding/funeral/job interview with the sort of tragic composure of someone who is at that very moment in abject misery. I think, from time to time, that I've got it wrong, and I visit the thrift stores for a nice jacket to wear with something casual, and the compliments I get do little to soothe the whirling seizure of panic and rage that's flattening the wrinklier parts of my brain.

I dream of climates where I can wear flannel and shorts and great big work boots with thick wool socks scrunched up, or of social climates where I can just relax and dress like Bea Arthur in The Golden Girls, but with a beard and great big work boots with thick wool socks scrunched up, or of being a garbageman, so I can just wear some nice DPW coveralls and oh, fuck you, I'm a trash man, okay?

Instead, I'm stuck in obnoxiously expensive black/navy t-shirts from Duluth because I'm all trunk, the same pair of Wranglers Originals camouflage shorts from Target over and over and over, and a sense of terrible creeping dread that, despite my eight months of freedom, winter will come and it will be long pants time again.
posted by sonascope at 5:40 AM on May 3, 2015 [15 favorites]


That sure is a lot of attractive men looking kind of soulfully at the camera.
posted by ChuraChura at 5:44 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


You just know they've been waiting - nay, praying - for the day when someone stops them and asks to photograph them for a style piece. On the outside it's all Blue Steel but on the inside it's all "OMG YESSSSS!!"
posted by billiebee at 6:05 AM on May 3, 2015 [13 favorites]


I think I'd slit my wrists if I had to exert as much, or more, effort on dressing as I do to my work. I think there were only two or three pieces of clothing in that entire article that I would even contemplate contemplate wearing. So much effort in making things look like they aren't quite the right size. Weird.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:06 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


I hate sports just as much as I hate fashion doesn't mean the hate of fashion isn't motivated subtly by its perceived femininity.
posted by Ferreous at 6:07 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


the basic black dress for men is always a variation of the fucking suit, and I am in a suit like most cats are on a leash, which is to say a whirling seizure of panic and rage

I've never understood this. A nice suit is super comfy, and makes even huge beer-bellied guys look not horrible. I'd wear my J.Crew Ludlow suit every day if I didn't want to keep it nice for when I actually need it. Hell, if I had $10k, I'd buy enough J.Crew Ludlow suits to wear one every day of the week and have a few at the cleaners in rotation. Suits are awesome. That Wyatt Mitchell guy knows the score.
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on May 3, 2015 [5 favorites]


The only thing worse than people who wear fedoras is people who can't tell whether or not they are wearing fedoras.

And that guy is a fashion assistant at GQ. The ability to distinguish fedoras and non-fedoras should be a prerequisite for the job.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:23 AM on May 3, 2015 [5 favorites]


That sure is a lot of attractive men looking kind of soulfully at the camera.

You mean they don't always look like that?

Because I always look soulfully into the middle-ground.
But I also try to achieve the nipple/butt thing... whilst jumping.
posted by Mezentian at 6:24 AM on May 3, 2015


It's funny—I'm savvy to the way we in the west hate things that are feminine, but I hate men's fashion precisely because it's so rarely feminine. The brooch is fine, the floral and the gingham are fine, a flower in the lapel, or even nice draping in the flow and fall of a well-worn denim shirt, but the misery of the suit jacket is entirely down to the fact that it is literally like wearing emotionally repressive masculinity as a garment. When I was planning my escape from the world of arts administration, I went out and bought myself a nice tailored suit, but trying to explain my design spec to the tailor was problematic.

"It fits okay, but I don't like this—"

I raised my arms straight to the sides, like I was readying myself for crucifixion. The tailor looked and shrugged.

"It has good movement."

I could not agree. Even a well-tailored suit penalizes you for raising your arms in violation of the rule that men are meant to stand stiffly, with arms dangling at our sides in a dignified and importantly inexpressive manner. Raise your arms and the fabric bunches up over your shoulder while the armpits bind.

"It's okay, but I need to make Kermit arms now and then, and there's no way I can make Kermit arms in this jacket."

"Kermit arms?"

"Yeah, you know—Kermit arms. Like what you do in those moments of ecstatic celebration."

I made Kermit arms, and heard stitches go. The tailor looked skyward, and sighed.

"Do you do that very often?"

"Yes. I'm prone to happy episodes."

"Maybe we need to try a more forgiving fabric."

And you know, I bet you could properly do Kermit arms in a Fred Rogers sweater. Maybe that's my fashion future. Fortunately, I've only had to wear my more forgiving, but still ecstasy-suppressing, suit at weddings, funerals, and job interviews, and those occasions rarely produce happy episodes.
posted by sonascope at 6:30 AM on May 3, 2015 [28 favorites]


Sonascope, yes, there are comfortable black dresses for women, but I promise you the hosiery and footwear that are expected to accompany such a dress are a particular sort of hell for a lot of women.
posted by peppermind at 6:33 AM on May 3, 2015 [8 favorites]


The hellishness of Weddings, funerals and job interviews had very little to do with the attire.

Weddings wouldn't have to give out free booze if they were fun to attend.
posted by Ferreous at 6:36 AM on May 3, 2015 [5 favorites]


Sonascope, yes, there are comfortable black dresses for women, but I promise you the hosiery and footwear that are expected to accompany such a dress are a particular sort of hell for a lot of women.

True, but I think the basic black dress goes best with well-worn sneakers and legs like fine nekkid. You can accessorize with less miserable components, but the core of man-fashion is unredeemable unless you relate to the world entirely with your head like Max Headroom or a news anchorman. You can't accessorize away the binding horror of a suit jacket.
posted by sonascope at 6:38 AM on May 3, 2015


I've never understood this. A nice suit is super comfy

See, and I've never understood this. I've had comfortable suits and I've had uncomfortable suits, but categorically speaking suits are less comfortable than jeans and a t-shirt. Not to mention much higher maintenance. Like, maybe if you live in a temperate climate and don't do a lot of walking around or lifting large objects and live near a cleaners and are generally rather fastidious and not clumsy, suits are perfectly comfortable, but I am none of those things.

I'm glad that, as a woman, I have nearly limitless dress options, many of which are as comfortable and low-maintenance as jeans. To be fair, though, I avoid pantyhose and heels whenever possible.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:40 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Hi guys! You'll probably read these comments, and you deserve to know that you all look incredibly stylish. As a woman working at a media company of a similar level, I understand the pressure to not only look good compared to your very stylish and well-to-do colleagues, but to also look good on the spot in an ad for (excuse me – article about) your company. I once inadvertently showed up in the background of a photo in a major fashion magazine wearing ill-fitting laundry day athletic clothes because it was project crunch time and I did not know that there would be a photoshoot in the office. I am now forever immortalized in print looking slobby as hell.
posted by theraflu at 6:43 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


Sure a suit isn't as comfortable as pajamas, but a decent fitting one should be comfortable for the situations that require it
posted by Ferreous at 6:43 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Part of the fun, I think, of shows like Vikings is how all the men are wearing jewelry, elaborate costumes, and impractical hairstyles (including stuff braided into their beards) while still being overtly (even farcically) masculine. Most photos I see of fashionable men go in the exact opposite direction.

When braided beards come back into fashion, I want to be there.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:44 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


But I guess style is a stupid, feminine thing for stupid females...

Yes, fashion is not for serious people who care about serious things like computer programming and Star Wars.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 6:54 AM on May 3, 2015 [17 favorites]


Yeah, but there's a significant difference between "comfortable for the situations that require it" and "I'd wear one every day." Nearly any outfit can be comfortable for an hour of sitting in an air-conditioned room.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:59 AM on May 3, 2015


I am pretty amazed by the knee-jerk reaction of hate! But I guess style is a stupid, feminine thing for stupid females... (?)

Um, no? I was interpreting the scorn as contempt for NYT's Style section, which usually seems to be about anything but style. Here they're interviewing people such as "Fashion assistant, GQ" who apparently doesn't know what a fedora is. There's quite a lot of masculine style that I admire, while admitting that I never have been and never will be that stylish; none of it is really on display here.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:00 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


This comment thread has been fantastic.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:03 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I am now forever immortalized in print looking slobby as hell.

And?
Does it come up often?
I have been forever immortalized (sic) in print looking slobby as hell too.
posted by Mezentian at 7:13 AM on May 3, 2015


Also, previously on the blue.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:14 AM on May 3, 2015


Also, previously on the blue.

Needs to be a professional white.
posted by Mezentian at 7:16 AM on May 3, 2015


So much effort in making things look like they aren't quite the right size. Weird.

That was my impression as well. It seems like a lot of people are wearing shirts a bit too small, or pants a bit too short.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:22 AM on May 3, 2015


I've never understood this.

The suit is a uniform for supplicants.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:25 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Does it come up often?

Of course not, but every time I wear something decent to work, I know in the back of my mind that at least I'll look better than the day I showed up in Vogue.
posted by theraflu at 7:27 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Is it me, or is the guy with the H&M tee pretty much the best put-together dude there?
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:32 AM on May 3, 2015


I saw a man on tv wearing a beautiful, fine wool, quite tailored cardigan instead of a jacket, and it looked splendid. It would be awesome if menswear stretched sideways a little, maybe into some more forgiving fabrics, and less nonsense like ties. One of the nicest things I ever saw a man wear was one of my high school boyfriends, a well built footballer, who often wore soft, ice cream pastel jumpers (sweaters). Sigh. I should have been a menswear designer.
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 7:42 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Lured by the talk of fedoras and the article title, I cam in here expecting this to be about snarking at Reddit, and am disappointed that it is about ties.
posted by busted_crayons at 7:44 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


One of the nicest things I ever saw a man wear was one of my high school boyfriends, a well built footballer

The practicality of wearing a well-built footballer is limited, but I'm sure it is a flattering look.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:46 AM on May 3, 2015 [19 favorites]


The suit is a uniform for supplicants.

See, I don't get this either. It's such a bizarre middle class affectation to think that by wearing a suit omygod you're giving up your INDIVIDUALITY and SUCCUMBING to the wishes of the MAN. Instead I shall grow my hair long, wear tie-dye, stink of patchouli and toe fungus! Let my freak-flag fly, etc. All fashion is a kind of supplication, even "freak" fashion. It's all taken from the catalog of identities we adopt because we no longer have our own identities. But real supplicants don't have a choice. The uniform for supplicants is an actual uniform, like say one you might wear while working at McDonald's. Being able to wear a suit is a sign of power and status, not supplication. A suit says: I am not defined by what I'm wearing, but by what I do, by the contents of my thought and the effects of my actions. It's a sign of incredible privilege, which is why men get to wear suits and not women, because men have historically had all the power and privilege. You know what's really rebellious? Getting really high and subverting the man in a suit. Revolutionaries should start by getting a haircut, putting on a suit, and tie a double-windsor.
posted by dis_integration at 7:50 AM on May 3, 2015 [10 favorites]


WHAT KIND OF HAT IS IT? I call it a fedora.

Oh, and Fred Kim, 22? That's not a fedora. It's hard to tell exactly what kind of hat it is from that angle, but it's not a fedora. It might be the same style of hat that Homsar wears.

Hard to tell for sure but it might be trilby. I don't even wear hats that don't have a snapback or velcro and even I know that's not a fucking fedora.

The only thing worse than people who wear fedoras is people who can't tell whether or not they are wearing fedoras.

And that guy is a fashion assistant at GQ. The ability to distinguish fedoras and non-fedoras should be a prerequisite for the job.

Here they're interviewing people such as "Fashion assistant, GQ" who apparently doesn't know what a fedora is.


I think I get why he calls it a fedora.
posted by Reyturner at 7:50 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


"I hate sports just as much as I hate fashion doesn't mean the hate of fashion isn't motivated subtly by its perceived femininity."

Virginia Woolf wrote: "Yet is it the masculine values that prevail. Speaking crudely, football and sport are 'important'; the worship of fashion, the buying of clothes 'trivial.'"
posted by Alizaria at 7:52 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


I think I get why he calls it a fedora.

'Cause he's a rebel?
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:56 AM on May 3, 2015


Being able to wear a suit is a sign of power and status, not supplication.

This just came up in another thread a day or two ago. That's maybe true in some places, but around here the only people I ever see in a suit are lower level employees at franchise investment places or mortgage brokerages. If you yourself are not in a position of control, being forced to wear a suit does not give you any power and status.

I can remember my middle school principal wearing a suit, but the last school administrator I met was wearing slacks and a button-up shirt. The male college presidents that I have met only wear suits for specific occasions, not daily. Outside of the financial world and big corporations, status these days seems to be expressed by not wearing a suit.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:00 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


'Cause he's a rebel?

Cause he delights in the outrage! of those who snark at fedoras but snark at those who are wrong about fedoras even more?
posted by billiebee at 8:01 AM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


See, I don't get this either. It's such a bizarre middle class affectation to think that by wearing a suit omygod you're giving up your INDIVIDUALITY and SUCCUMBING to the wishes of the MAN.

I didn't say that. I meant quite literally that a suit is the uniform that supplicants wear. A suit is what you wear when you need a job, or are trying to avoid criminal punishment, or are trying to sell something.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:10 AM on May 3, 2015 [10 favorites]


Suits are a sign that, unwilling or not, you're playing in the status game/race, or at least a particularly European/East Coast variety of it. Some do it unwillingly, some only visit, some embrace it. At the lower end, the retail shift managers in their wrinkled Sears polyester are doing it to keep their jobs. In the main laneways of the race, though, there is absolutely competition for who can dress the best, as vicious as any middle school clique. The trick, as Bateman explains, is to wear the best, while by not appearing to. Mr. Sergent is top of the junior tables, Mr. Wackermann is what the others aspire to, and most of the others are struggling to emulate one or both.

However, some, like Mr. Mitchell, are the refuseniks. His is the only true expression of personality in that whole list, but then he's such a badass, that he could wear a quilted purple bathrobe and people would roll with it (and a few of the juniors would wear housecoats the next day).
posted by bonehead at 8:12 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Suits are a sign that, unwilling or not, you're playing in the status game/race, or at least a particularly European/East Coast variety of it. Some do it unwillingly, some only visit, some embrace it.

Everybody, everywhere is playing that game according to some ruleset or another, though, unless they're hermits living alone in the desert. I for one am quite certain that, Come the Revolution, once everybody has had a few years to settle into their identical burlap equality smocks, people will figure out ways to accessorize them to subtly reflect what kind of work they do, where they live, and how much deference people are expected to show them.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


I love three part suits (with tie!) but I'm female and this still borders on crossdressing.

I also love dresses and skirts (preferably long, so I don't "have to" shave my hirsute legs).

I fucking hate jeans (most pants except the yoga kind really) and underwear.

Not work relevant at all though, since I'm wearing a butt ugly fast-foodish uniform there.
posted by ZeroAmbition at 8:32 AM on May 3, 2015


One of, the many reasons that despite it being my ancestral homeland, I could never live in New York. I would feel perpetually underdressed.
posted by octothorpe at 8:35 AM on May 3, 2015


Well, wading in here. It wasn't that long ago, we had to wear sculpted blankets to keep warm indoors, out doors, and on the battlefield. Sculpted because we still had to work, and it is more efficient if we don't have to hold our clothes on. Suits, not that evil, really, pockets for tools, possibilities for layering, vests, over coats, then great coats if you remember the Dickensonian descriptions for dress.

Fashion is necessary in any climate, or dress, if that generic term is more or less loaded. Rcently on the Blue we had historic photos of Napoleonic soldiers, anyone remember the elegance of those uniforms? I love it these fashionistos are getting their man-glam on!

Remember the article on the Blue recently of the East Indian clothing recyclers? The thread to garment, design, and sales of the look industry, sustains working people all over the world.

Who does not love getting something new, or necessary, or new to them? Fashion is such good stuff, it is the fur we are missing, it is the feathers we don't have we could use to preen. At its best, it is enjoyable and functional, joyous! I mean, c'mon who doesn't remember the magic rustle of a new easter dress, or new jeans, or that shirt you wore when they first looked at you? Astronomy helps us hope, plan and dream. Fashion helps us to feel real and connected to each other, when it is being good.
posted by Oyéah at 8:38 AM on May 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


Re: the suit discussion: I'm sure a good suit can be comfortable, but would also be expensive. I wear the same thing every day and the whole outfit is well under $50. A good, comfortable suit would be how much? The equivalent of how many outfits? And how many would I need?
I don't give what I'm wearing any time or attention, and as little money as gets me comfort. I'm really lucky to be able to ignore this part of life.
posted by librosegretti at 8:45 AM on May 3, 2015


8/10 Fred Kim, excellent subtlety and appropriation of journalism.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:00 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Pictures of people wearing clothing on the internet is pretty refreshing.
posted by srboisvert at 9:03 AM on May 3, 2015 [5 favorites]


Yes, fashion is not for serious people who care about serious things like computer programming and Star Wars.

Most geeks have had any attempts at fashion beaten out of us by society, be it our friends or the random group of strangers that point and laugh.
posted by underflow at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


So much effort in making things look like they aren't quite the right size. Weird.
That was my impression as well. It seems like a lot of people are wearing shirts a bit too small, or pants a bit too short.


You should see British bankers. If you are not busting out of your suit you are not prosperous. Or maybe it is just the two pint lunches.
posted by srboisvert at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2015


underflow, I assume you use "Society" to refer to your peers who ridicule and ape your attempts to wear anything fancier than a vest? Perhaps not, but that was certainly my experience when I wore my first tie to my gaming group after binging on 80's teen flicks and falling in love with the look.

"Hurrr! You going for a job interview?"
"Finally got a date huh? What's the lucky' boy's name?"
"Did your dad die or sumpthin'?"


Remember, mockery is almost always an expression of fear. Those who would use it are only trying to drag you down to their level.
posted by endotoxin at 9:23 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


This was such a breath of fresh air, I can't tell you. Jaime Lalinde is absolutely gorgeous. I'm dying to see what the inside of these guys' apartments look like. I'm so tired of dating guys with leather couches and bro beer art in kind of ugly and utilitarian apartments. I'm willing to put up with the clothes, but it's hard to want to stay the weekend on request when my place is so much prettier and cosier.
posted by discopolo at 9:24 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


A suit might be comfortable (I've never found them to be), but what they are very much not is practical. It's the ultimate emasculation - a suit tells everyone that the wearer does not do things for himself because he cannot. The fabrics are too fragile, the cut and shape too restricting. They are also expensive - I could buy 20 pairs of jeans for what the suit I got married in cost, and that wasn't even bespoke. A man in a suit has people who do things for him because even if he has the knowledge and capability, he is chained by his clothing into uselessness.

Nobody who actually does things wears a suit to do them.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:34 AM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Yeah, you know—Kermit arms. Like what you do in those moments of ecstatic celebration."
I don't have the tailoring knowledge to suggest a remedy for the suit problem, but I can offer this minor balm:

http://totalfuckingkermitarms.com

Does what it says on the tin.
posted by romakimmy at 9:37 AM on May 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Pockets are so last season.

I would find it delightful if men's fashion was treated to a vile taste of what is acceptable as pockets in women's fashion.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:43 AM on May 3, 2015 [10 favorites]


I'm pretty sure Fred Kim is trolling, and doing it brilliantly.

I am also pretty sure that if you did this at Wired, you would get a very different look, at least after the EiC and publisher.
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:25 AM on May 3, 2015


Bill Wackerman is the true hero of this article. Looks great, looks professional, looks fun.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 6:55 AM on May 3

Mr. Wackermann is what the others aspire to, and most of the others are struggling to emulate one or both.
posted by bonehead at 4:12 PM on May 3


Nice suit, but Bill Wackermann's tie knot is an abomination usually reserved for 13 year olds late for school - it's horribly askew relative to the collar, and far too tight for the width of the tie itself. Not every tie has to be tied full Windsor, but if you're going to go for a smaller knot, at least make sure that you do it right.

Also, everyone else that said Wyatt Mitchell wins this round is totally right.
posted by Len at 11:19 AM on May 3, 2015


A man in a suit has people who do things for him because even if he has the knowledge and capability, he is chained by his clothing into uselessness.

Not sure what these manly, manly "things" you're thinking about are, but one can and usually does change out of a suit to perform manual labor. They're not permanently affixed to one's body, you know. If all you mean is that construction workers don't wear suits -- yeah, I guess you've got a point there.
posted by neroli at 11:51 AM on May 3, 2015 [6 favorites]


And it mythologizes manual labor. You can do lots of important work in a suit.
posted by Ferreous at 12:05 PM on May 3, 2015


Also, everyone else that said Wyatt Mitchell wins this round is totally right.

Wyatt Mitchell is so close to nailing it, but I think the one fatal flaw is having the top button of his shirt buttoned up.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 12:19 PM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I work on a software development lab owned by a very large, old and traditional health insurance/hospital system. They purposely put us in a different building five miles away from the headquarters because they knew that they'd never be able to hire and retain software developers at the main site because you have to wear at least business casual there. There's no way in hell that they'd ever give up the docker and button down shirt requirements for corporate workers but they realized that there was also no way that they could compete for employees with Google, NetApp, Apple and local startups if they tried to force them to put a shirt with a collar on. So the solution was to quarantine us at a different site (one floor down from Google's local shop) and grant us a special dress code.

They recently moved one of the biggest executives in the corporation into an office at our site (to whip us into shape) and he made a big show of taking his tie off at the all-hands where he was introduced and he's kept it off but you can tell that he feels massively uncomfortable without it.

I'll freely admit though that the t-shirts and jeans at tech companies are as much of a uniform as suits and ties at traditional companies.
posted by octothorpe at 12:20 PM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I barely wear t shirts if only because I have to cover my arms in the sun and long sleeve t shirts things look unbearably 90s.

Western shirts are great for that purpose, just enough to bock the sun, but light enough to breathe. There's also no better effect than ripping open a button snap shirt dramatically.
posted by Ferreous at 12:26 PM on May 3, 2015


I'll freely admit though that the t-shirts and jeans at tech companies are as much of a uniform as suits and ties at traditional companies.

I feel like t-shirts and jeans are a uniform the way atheism is a religion.

And I mean that exactly the way you think I mean that. That goes for you too, everyone else.
posted by Reyturner at 1:27 PM on May 3, 2015 [7 favorites]


In the way that their proponents like to pretend, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, that they alone are neutral, unmarked, and rational?
posted by strangely stunted trees at 1:41 PM on May 3, 2015 [7 favorites]


That's what the studded black leather bracelet is for.
posted by box at 2:53 PM on May 3, 2015


I love men's fashion.

Back in the 80s, when I was living on the lower east side surrounded by various rockers and artists, a friend had a silk suit he inherited from his French father. The suit was from the 50s when suits were worn looser than now. OMG it was so beautiful, almost drapey... I'm sure it was very comfortable. I used to joke that it made me want to be a man so I could wear it (yes, I know I didn't really have to be a man to wear it).

For the Times Style section this is remarkably benign. Wyatt Mitchell is totally killing it and I also like how he is a little intellectual about his fashion AND he is a big guy (for those of you complaining their size limits their style).

And yeah, I do wish metafilter was not so hostile towards fashion topics.
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:05 PM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


A suit is what you wear when you need a job, or are trying to avoid criminal punishment, or are trying to sell something.

I guess you don't spend much time in the downtown area of most US cities.
posted by laptolain at 3:23 PM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Pockets are so last season.

I would find it delightful if men's fashion was treated to a vile taste of what is acceptable as pockets in women's fashion.


The whole smokes in the hat thing reminds of basic training. We had quite adequate pants pockets but weren't allowed to have anything in them. The exchange sold ankle "holsters" for cigarette packs (no I'm not making that up) for just that reason. I sympathize with my wife, and all women, over the travesty that is women's pockets (or worse yet slashes that look like pockets but there's no actual pocket. WTF?).
posted by MikeMc at 3:34 PM on May 3, 2015 [1 favorite]




Wearing a three piece suit without a tie just looks wrong to me. Nice boots, though.
posted by rocket88 at 7:11 PM on May 3, 2015


I love that heavy coat/cactus pin/relaxed jeans combo. Striking as hell.

I'm also deeply in favour of the checkered shirt/floral tie.

In summary, I wish I were a tall, lean dude rather than a short woman, because I want to wear these things as well as those guys.
posted by pseudonymph at 8:55 PM on May 3, 2015


I think the idea behind wearing a three piece without the tie is that the full three piece is still a bit stuffy and old-fashioned. The wearer who leaves out the tie is modern (if somewhat arch) and places something on the casual side of the ledger.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:44 PM on May 3, 2015


Wyatt Mitchell has some nice-ass threads.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:59 PM on May 3, 2015


I'm mostly stunned by the typo in the last sentence:

"As long as you’re confident in what you’re wearing, what does is matter?"

I mean, the last sentence! NYTIMES.COM, what are you coming to?

I love fashion, but men's fashion is mostly BO-RING, and these guys are BO-RING too. More color, please.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:35 PM on May 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


The history and construction of the male suit is a fascinating subject, I wish someone would do an fpp on them. But from the little I do know,

* a proper expensive suit will last a lifetime and has been constructed such that it's infinitely let-inable and let-outable, with extra fabric in all the appropriate seams.

* a proper expensive suit is the one with the real buttons on the cuffs in case the wearer needs to roll up their sleeves and get on with cutting some trees down etc.

They are high-status, hard-wearing serious garments with the wearer's propensity to manly activities built in, imo. Love em, would wear em if only they accommodated boobage. But the suit is like an armoured extension for the body and not really considerate of soft spots. But, if you were to splash out and get a good one, it should be the best-fitting garment of your life.
posted by glasseyes at 2:35 AM on May 4, 2015


I would find it delightful if men's fashion was treated to a vile taste of what is acceptable as pockets in women's fashion.

I can't speak for all the variations but: we do get a bit if that.
Pockets sewn up (but they are actually pockets if you unpick them,,, WTF?
Pockets too small to hold anything useful.

I figure it's the Manbag Conspiracy.
posted by Mezentian at 3:49 AM on May 4, 2015


I am, personally, convinced that a significant part of our distaste for fashion, or even caring about personal appearance, is because it is regarded as a feminine concern.

Some level of concern for fashion - in a simple, well-put-together, Don Draper sort of way - is considered manly, but excessive attention to it is considered suspect by the official enforcers of masculinity. See metrosexual, the portmanteau that suggests that while a fashion and grooming conscious male isn't necessarily gay, he might be just a tiny bit unstable in his heterosexuality, and, who knows, the right man might push him over the edge with the appropriate soundtrack and a few fancy martinis...
posted by theorique at 5:48 AM on May 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


You shouldn't use the hip pockets of a suit jacket. They blow out far too easily and make the thing look frumpy. Same goes for the rear pockets of dress pants. The jacket is the load-bearing harness and a competent tailor will cut it to accommodate your usual compliment of pocket-books, billfolds, cigarette cases, gilt-edged securities and key wallets should your gentleman's personal gentleman be unavailable to handle these accoutrements
posted by OldReliable at 5:56 AM on May 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


This reminds me of a story my boss told me about refugee resettlement in the 90s, when most refugees were coming from ex Yugoslavia.

So, the agency had gathered a ton of volunteers to help, including many wealthy people and social workers from many different agencies in town.

All the volunteers were thoroughly put off by the European refugees who were escaping a war for god's sake, yet they arrived impeccably dressed, had perfect manicures and looked like they had just come out of a photo shoot. Several volunteers withdrew their offers to help, my boss supposed because they wanted desperate people to look poor and miserable.

I think this snobbery against people who like to take care of their looks is in part based on the obsession this country has with everything being useful and having a quantifiable benefit. It's the same reason people look down on those who like art, intellectual pursuits that don't translate into a higher income, and anything that does not result in profit through obvious hard work.

In the brokest stages of my life I found joy in making sure my clothes and my make up looked at least acceptable. Most of my American friends would disapprove of how much attention I paid to my looks initially, but when we talked about it they weren't sure why. After some time several people in my office started experimenting with outfits and even if they went back to their laid-back style they are at least a little more open minded about other people's tastes.

I really think it's plain snobbery to judge people based on what they like to wear. I see this a lot in the suburbs and it drives me crazy. Any attempt to express one's self through clothing is shamed and shot down even by random people in the street. There are things I don't wear anymore because I just can't deal with the hassle of explaining myself to total strangers.

Except for Ugg boots, they deserve all the judgment we can give them.
posted by Tarumba at 6:19 AM on May 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


No reddit staff?

Reddit isn't owned by Conde Nast. They're both owned by the same parent company.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 6:54 AM on May 4, 2015


Ugg boots are slippers for outdoors, what's not to like? I've never been able to afford the real thing but I had a pair of cheap copies and I wore them until the soles fell apart. I couldn't give a tiny rat's fart whether they were socially acceptable or not, my feet were so much happier than when I wore heels.

Also people wearing actual pyjamas to go to the shops is a thing here in some areas. I've literally seen women in the street with pjs, slippers and dressing gowns. (I wouldn't do it myself but each to their own.) There's a lot of looking down on it - Tescos banned it for example - and there's a definite class bias against it. But I can't help but admire people who give so few fucks that they'll go out in their jammies. They'd read this article and wet themselves.
posted by billiebee at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2015


"As long as you’re confident in what you’re wearing, what does is matter?"

I mean, the last sentence! NYTIMES.COM, what are you coming to?


With a Clinton back on the road to the white house, it seems like the right time to bring this one out of cold storage:

It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.
posted by dis_integration at 8:28 AM on May 4, 2015


I wouldn't mind wearing suits if it didn't also mean you have to wear a tie. I hate wearing ties. Tying them is a pain in the ass. They flop around everywhere, you need to be mindful of them when you eat or go to the bathroom or whatever. You have to button your collar all the way up, and the collar and the knot from this uncomfortable constraint around your neck.

I'm by no means fashionable, but I'm not 100% casual, either. I'm more of a jeans-and-collared-shirts guy than a jeans-and-t-shirts guy. I don't mind wearing dress pants when the occasion calls for it, and I actually kind of like sport coats. But ties? Crikey, can't we just do away with them?
posted by breakin' the law at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2015


Use a tie clip or a tie tack. Also make sure that you're getting shirts with an appropriately sized collar. Having a top button that doesn't cut off blood flow to your brain helps with that a lot.
posted by Ferreous at 11:17 AM on May 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


I wear a casual tie once in a while for fun and novelty, since I rarely have occasion to wear one formally. I wore one for Free Comic Book day this past weekend in fact. A simple four-in-hand knot looks fine loosened with the collar undone.
posted by rifflesby at 12:56 PM on May 4, 2015


Recently, while wanting a porkpie but unwilling to spend the resources to get a proper one, I bought a smallish, $10 fedora at Walmart then molded it into the shape of a porkpie. I called it a "fedorkpie." After being crammed into a duffel bag several times, however, it looks like a hobo's hat. This is good because, when we are all hobos, I will be the best dressed hobo in town.
posted by rankfreudlite at 3:29 PM on May 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


For a few years I worked for a software company that had this bizarrely intense fashion culture. The founders were wealthy MD's who had built and sold two other startups before this one, and had posh tastes that went with the millions that came out of those sales. All of their companies had offices in the fancy parts of downtown so also drew an employee base that liked living in the city. All of the client facing folks in Marketing, Sales or Professional Services were dressed to the nines, which is unsurprising, but you'd also have QA engineers walking around in Versace as well as Armani clad sysadmins that walk by the hallways past office managers wearing Manolo shoes. All the dev's would wear jeans, but many of them were selvedge, and probably cost as much as the suits that the other side of the house would wear.

It was SO weird. It was the only place I know where people who showed up at a recruiters office wearing a certain style of outfit would get a spontaneous job interview; because the recruiter knew that many of our employees had a certain 'look'.

And, on one hand, I would joke that the emphasis on fashion as a screening parameter should have been a red flag, but looking back on it now, it's probably no different from any other dev shop where the employees may have been hired using other "culture fit" parameters that were not necessarily tied to their skill at their job -- whether you impressed an interviewer with making an appropriately timed XKCD reference, or were totally down for having your interview at a bar.

Me, I wore cargo shorts, t-shirts and combat boots to work most days, except when clients were visiting, then I'd throw on the suit and endure the mild hazing from my colleagues noting that it was like a reverse gender Ally Sheedy moment at the end of the Breakfast Club. Which is all to say: I feel you, Elias. You and your shirt that you think you got at H&M; I've worn that shirt and I know that feeling.
posted by bl1nk at 6:37 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


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