Marvel: We Get Girls
May 14, 2015 6:39 AM Subscribe
Sorry you are tired of it--it's too true not to notice.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:57 AM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:57 AM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Nah, just a facile comparison for folks who love to start out thinking about everything from a negative space.
posted by taterpie at 7:01 AM on May 14, 2015
posted by taterpie at 7:01 AM on May 14, 2015
The tagline is "We Know Girls". Marvel doesn't "get" girls.
posted by chavenet at 7:02 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by chavenet at 7:02 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Did he say Geneva?" No super hearing then?
posted by biffa at 7:02 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 7:02 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Except the Supergirl trailer looks adorable, and it's okay for stuff to be girly? The joke of the Black Widow trailer is that it's radically different from every other Marvel movie because it's "for girls." Supergirl doesn't look radically different from CW's The Flash.
posted by almostmanda at 7:03 AM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by almostmanda at 7:03 AM on May 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yeah, Supergirl is a very different character than Black Widow, and should have a different feel.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:07 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dinty_moore at 7:07 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The first minute or two of the Supergirl trailer does have a bit of that feel, but it ends up in much a better place. I wonder if some of the reaction is people not actually sitting through the entire six minute run of the trailer. I could have done without Calista Flockhart's speech about the name Supergirl, but other than that I generally liked it. A little lighter in tone than The Flash, but that make sense.
The Black Widow parody was obviously great.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:17 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Black Widow parody was obviously great.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:17 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nah, just a facile comparison for folks who love to start out thinking about everything from a negative space.
Oui, c'est facile parce qu'ils sont la même chose.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:17 AM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oui, c'est facile parce qu'ils sont la même chose.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:17 AM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
My problem with the BW parody is that it actually misses what is done to female action stars, in favor of making a really forgettable joke about "chick flicks" - bored. SO BORED. So very bored.
Like, yeah, I get it, Marvel might make their girl superhero movie into a "Chick flick" - but that trailer could have been SO MUCH more on point about the thing female action heroes really do end up with "Have to fight the only girl bad guy" "rape rape rape" "killed for the man heroes man pain" "clothes get half ripped off" instead of YET ANOTHER "lol, girl movies are like this, boy movies are like that..." joke.
posted by FritoKAL at 7:37 AM on May 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
Like, yeah, I get it, Marvel might make their girl superhero movie into a "Chick flick" - but that trailer could have been SO MUCH more on point about the thing female action heroes really do end up with "Have to fight the only girl bad guy" "rape rape rape" "killed for the man heroes man pain" "clothes get half ripped off" instead of YET ANOTHER "lol, girl movies are like this, boy movies are like that..." joke.
posted by FritoKAL at 7:37 AM on May 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
So here's some cognitive dissonance: (1) I thought the Black Widow parody was hilarious; (2) I can see the parallels between the Black Widow parody and the Supergirl trailer; (3) I think the Supergirl trailer looks like a ton of fun and I'm excited to watch the show.
I also loved Calista Flockhart, speech and all.
Frankly, I'm happy to finally see something out of DC that isn't grimdark, even if I winced at the whole "it's not an S" thing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:53 AM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also loved Calista Flockhart, speech and all.
Frankly, I'm happy to finally see something out of DC that isn't grimdark, even if I winced at the whole "it's not an S" thing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:53 AM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Like, yeah, I get it, Marvel might make their girl superhero movie into a "Chick flick" - but that trailer could have been SO MUCH more on point about the thing female action heroes really do end up with "Have to fight the only girl bad guy" "rape rape rape" "killed for the man heroes man pain" "clothes get half ripped off" instead of YET ANOTHER "lol, girl movies are like this, boy movies are like that..." joke.
Sure, but that's far too nuanced a position for an SNL skit, which is going for the broadest possible recognition in just a couple minutes.
Although, I'd love to see a live-action skit of Kate Beaton's Strong Female Characters.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:57 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sure, but that's far too nuanced a position for an SNL skit, which is going for the broadest possible recognition in just a couple minutes.
Although, I'd love to see a live-action skit of Kate Beaton's Strong Female Characters.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:57 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
See, I was happy that SG isn't looking like grimdark, destroy-half-of-Metropolis Man of Steel.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:07 AM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:07 AM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, a superhero The Devil Wears Prada works as well for Supergirl as superhero crime procedural has for The Flash, we'll all be eating our words next fall. Don't know if it will but I also remember being pretty meh about The Flash this time last year too.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:33 AM on May 14, 2015
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:33 AM on May 14, 2015
Sure, but that's far too nuanced a position for an SNL skit, which is going for the broadest possible recognition in just a couple minutes.
Yeah but the message they sent was "girl superheros who are feminine bad" and not "we're worried Marvel might not get who Black Widow is."
posted by FritoKAL at 8:53 AM on May 14, 2015
Yeah but the message they sent was "girl superheros who are feminine bad" and not "we're worried Marvel might not get who Black Widow is."
posted by FritoKAL at 8:53 AM on May 14, 2015
Yeah but the message they sent was "girl superheros who are feminine bad" and not "we're worried Marvel might not get who Black Widow is."
Oh I didn't get that message. The message I got was "Marvel has no idea what to do with its female superheroes, and if pressed would revert to tired 'chick flick' stereotypes because that's what they think women want."
I think this is why the Supergirl trailer didn't bother me. I have no problem with a Supergirl who is feminine and dorky and has a crush on a guy. But that's not Black Widow at all.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:59 AM on May 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
Oh I didn't get that message. The message I got was "Marvel has no idea what to do with its female superheroes, and if pressed would revert to tired 'chick flick' stereotypes because that's what they think women want."
I think this is why the Supergirl trailer didn't bother me. I have no problem with a Supergirl who is feminine and dorky and has a crush on a guy. But that's not Black Widow at all.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:59 AM on May 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
Yeah but the message they sent was "girl superheros who are feminine bad" and not "we're worried Marvel might not get who Black Widow is."
I thought the skit was pretty clear about contrasting Black Widow as she is in the Marvel movies - action sequences, Black Widow looking powerful and serious and in-control - to the smash cut of the romcom opener of the NYC skyline and the tinkly music, right after having Marvel reassure us that they totes know girls. That contrast sets up the joke, and that joke isn't really "girl superheros who are feminine bad".
posted by blithers at 9:06 AM on May 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I thought the skit was pretty clear about contrasting Black Widow as she is in the Marvel movies - action sequences, Black Widow looking powerful and serious and in-control - to the smash cut of the romcom opener of the NYC skyline and the tinkly music, right after having Marvel reassure us that they totes know girls. That contrast sets up the joke, and that joke isn't really "girl superheros who are feminine bad".
posted by blithers at 9:06 AM on May 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
But that's my point, like. Like - Marvel has already gotten her "right" (sort of, we won't get into my issues with AoU here because they're spoilers) so why are they gonna make that ~particular mistake~ in favor of the mistakes they would REALLY make?
Like if they're gonna make a fake trailer to suggest that Marvel doesn't get girls, don't actually contradict what we've already been shown. USE that to show us what the problems are.
Like, trailer about the comedy with Scarlet Witch and Black Widow being being the worst roommates ever? YES. Fake rom com about Black Widow and (insert male Avenger here or Bucky Barnes). YES.
oops Marvel might make a generic lady chick flick rom com? No.
I'm saying this? Was a weak ass joke not actually supported by reality, a wasted use of production values and is more like "haha what's up with chick flicks?" rather than "Marvel doesn't get women." because it doesn't hold up to verisimilitude. It breaks my suspension of disbelief.
I can believe Marvel would fuck up a lady-superhero movie. I cannot believe that they'd make -this- movie.
(on top of everything EVERYTHING else, Marvel already did this with Black Widow's introduction in Iron Man 2, didn't anyone writing this pay attention? Like. MOVIE ALREADY MADE. It was Iron Man 2. That's it. That was the movie.)
posted by FritoKAL at 10:37 AM on May 14, 2015
Like if they're gonna make a fake trailer to suggest that Marvel doesn't get girls, don't actually contradict what we've already been shown. USE that to show us what the problems are.
Like, trailer about the comedy with Scarlet Witch and Black Widow being being the worst roommates ever? YES. Fake rom com about Black Widow and (insert male Avenger here or Bucky Barnes). YES.
oops Marvel might make a generic lady chick flick rom com? No.
I'm saying this? Was a weak ass joke not actually supported by reality, a wasted use of production values and is more like "haha what's up with chick flicks?" rather than "Marvel doesn't get women." because it doesn't hold up to verisimilitude. It breaks my suspension of disbelief.
I can believe Marvel would fuck up a lady-superhero movie. I cannot believe that they'd make -this- movie.
(on top of everything EVERYTHING else, Marvel already did this with Black Widow's introduction in Iron Man 2, didn't anyone writing this pay attention? Like. MOVIE ALREADY MADE. It was Iron Man 2. That's it. That was the movie.)
posted by FritoKAL at 10:37 AM on May 14, 2015
Plus the trailer kind of was all "but this is bad" - like, it hit all the goofy tropes of a 'chick flick' (look I hate the term and my husband loves those movies more than I do, but that's the term for them) and the joke was "Natasha doesn't fit in here" but there's a strong subtext through it of "And it's bad anyway." - like, the subtext was clearly to me "lol, chick flick are dumb, am i rite?" on top of "and Marvel is gonna fuck it up."
posted by FritoKAL at 10:41 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by FritoKAL at 10:41 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
But that's my point, like. Like - Marvel has already gotten her "right" (sort of, we won't get into my issues with AoU here because they're spoilers) so why are they gonna make that ~particular mistake~ in favor of the mistakes they would REALLY make?
Marvel has gotten her right as a secondary character. I think the joke is that they wouldn't know what to do with her for an entire movie just about her and would default to "girls are like this".
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:09 AM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Marvel has gotten her right as a secondary character. I think the joke is that they wouldn't know what to do with her for an entire movie just about her and would default to "girls are like this".
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:09 AM on May 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Can I just say, though, that my favorite joke in this is the TV news subtitle "Ultron Issues Fire Apology"? Like that's a common and aww-worthy thing that villains tend to do for their SOs.
posted by blithers at 11:28 AM on May 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by blithers at 11:28 AM on May 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Video not available in my country. *rolls eyes*
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:28 AM on May 14, 2015
posted by CrazyLemonade at 11:28 AM on May 14, 2015
It wasn't a very funny joke. (and gay Thor just was straight up offensive - like. like why can't Thor just be her friend? Or gay, without them having to go into lispy gay bestie?)
posted by FritoKAL at 11:29 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by FritoKAL at 11:29 AM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sorry I keep coming back to this - but
Like I get it, parody of the rom-com chick flick but with superheros in it. I -get- that, but as a parody, it was offensive. Gay Thor felt like making fun of gay people. Awkward fashion intern Natasha felt more like giggling at girls than making fun of dumb people at Marvel.
It didn't work for me, and I came out of it feeling like SNL got me (female superhero fan) less than Marvel does.
posted by FritoKAL at 11:58 AM on May 14, 2015
Like I get it, parody of the rom-com chick flick but with superheros in it. I -get- that, but as a parody, it was offensive. Gay Thor felt like making fun of gay people. Awkward fashion intern Natasha felt more like giggling at girls than making fun of dumb people at Marvel.
It didn't work for me, and I came out of it feeling like SNL got me (female superhero fan) less than Marvel does.
posted by FritoKAL at 11:58 AM on May 14, 2015
For a not-grimdark DC property with feminine and awesome female teenage protagonists, I really recommend Gotham Academy. The art is anime-inflected and absolutely gorgeous, and the characters are delightful.
posted by Phire at 12:07 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 12:07 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't want to invalidate your opinions, FritoKAL, so I'll just say that I think it's similar to the Amy Schumer discussion from a couple days ago. In the Amy Schumer skit about a Cosmo-like magazine making ridiculous sex tips, is she making fun of women who read Cosmo? Is she making fun of a society who accepts sex tip lists as a good thing? Something else entirely?
My own personal opinion of the SNL skit was making fun of lazy cliches in the "chick-flick" genre by filmmakers -- for instance, the lispy gay best friend is totally an overdone, tired cliche in many of those movies -- and suggesting that Marvel would fall back on those cliches if they attempted to make a standalone BW movie. I can see how it can be argued that SNL was also making fun of women who like those kinds of movies, but it seemed to me to be aimed at the filmmakers rather than the audience.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:09 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
My own personal opinion of the SNL skit was making fun of lazy cliches in the "chick-flick" genre by filmmakers -- for instance, the lispy gay best friend is totally an overdone, tired cliche in many of those movies -- and suggesting that Marvel would fall back on those cliches if they attempted to make a standalone BW movie. I can see how it can be argued that SNL was also making fun of women who like those kinds of movies, but it seemed to me to be aimed at the filmmakers rather than the audience.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:09 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought the main problem with the Black Widow sketch was that it was a badly written and unfunny Saturday Night Live sketch- but I'm being redundant here.
I mean hey, it's SNL- you can't expect them to get up to the level of say, Nickelodeon our Cartoon Network. It's kind of embarrassing when SNL tries to be funny.
posted by happyroach at 12:26 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean hey, it's SNL- you can't expect them to get up to the level of say, Nickelodeon our Cartoon Network. It's kind of embarrassing when SNL tries to be funny.
posted by happyroach at 12:26 PM on May 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Amy Schumer's a woman, making fun of a -thing- not always written by women.
How many female writers are there at SNL again? Which one wrote this skit?
(According to Wikipedia, GENEROUSLY it is 8 of 33, if I assume both Chris and Leslie are female names)
Men - or even a mostly-male writing staff - don't get to make fun of chick flicks without it being suspected as poking down.
posted by FritoKAL at 12:45 PM on May 14, 2015
How many female writers are there at SNL again? Which one wrote this skit?
(According to Wikipedia, GENEROUSLY it is 8 of 33, if I assume both Chris and Leslie are female names)
Men - or even a mostly-male writing staff - don't get to make fun of chick flicks without it being suspected as poking down.
posted by FritoKAL at 12:45 PM on May 14, 2015
Black Widow fan-made title sequence for the movie we really want.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:46 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:46 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
One thing you don't see asked about female writers and SNL -- the show primarily sources writers from three places: UCB, the Groundlings and Harvard.
What is it about these places and how they treat women? Why do they get a pass?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:50 PM on May 14, 2015
What is it about these places and how they treat women? Why do they get a pass?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:50 PM on May 14, 2015
Disney Just Mocking Us At This Point; Replaces Black Widow with Captain America in Toy Based on Black Widow Scene.
posted by fings at 1:52 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fings at 1:52 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm a longtime comics fan and longtime feminist. Growing up though my favorite was always Spider-Man because, lets be honest, as a science nerd and photographer* from NYC... yeah. But also because it was always kind of fun to read. I became a lot less interested during the dark period of the whole Ben Reilly clone thing, which was NOT fun and felt needlessly long.
All that said, I like my comic book stories with a dose of funny, so there were parts of the Supergirl trailer that I thought were kind of cool, like the "really??" as the plane approaches the bridge. But the rest of the character makes no sense to me.
She grew up obviously aware that she's an alien with abilities far beyond her human peers, so that meek, mousy personality made no sense to me, and it seemed a little inconsistent even during the six minutes of trailer. That moment when she sees the picture of Superman in the sun feels like it should be more about her seeing herself as the hero alongside her famous cousin than shifting gears into fan worship of Jimmy Olsen.
When her sister says "you always wanted to be normal" she gives her a list of reasons why she isn't normal. BTW, is this the only scene in the trailer that passes the Bechdel? I guess maybe the few seconds with her boss also count?
*hobbyist
posted by ben242 at 2:18 PM on May 14, 2015
All that said, I like my comic book stories with a dose of funny, so there were parts of the Supergirl trailer that I thought were kind of cool, like the "really??" as the plane approaches the bridge. But the rest of the character makes no sense to me.
She grew up obviously aware that she's an alien with abilities far beyond her human peers, so that meek, mousy personality made no sense to me, and it seemed a little inconsistent even during the six minutes of trailer. That moment when she sees the picture of Superman in the sun feels like it should be more about her seeing herself as the hero alongside her famous cousin than shifting gears into fan worship of Jimmy Olsen.
When her sister says "you always wanted to be normal" she gives her a list of reasons why she isn't normal. BTW, is this the only scene in the trailer that passes the Bechdel? I guess maybe the few seconds with her boss also count?
*hobbyist
posted by ben242 at 2:18 PM on May 14, 2015
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That thing is a parody of Black Widow, and all the things you can't really do with her because she's a stone killer who only hangs out with men (in the MCU).
posted by taterpie at 6:56 AM on May 14, 2015