Police Bodycams Hit Toronto
May 17, 2015 8:46 AM Subscribe
By the end of May, 100 Toronto police officers across the city will be wearing the increasingly popular policing tool
- NIJ Research on Bodyworn Cameras
- ACLU Primer on Police Bodycams
- Policefoundation.org Study on Bodycams
"The findings suggest more than a 50% reduction in the total number of incidents of use-of-force compared to control-conditions, and nearly ten times more citizens’ complaints in the 12-months prior to the experiment."
- NYT article on the Policefoundation.org study
Interesting: And, lest skeptics think that the officers with cameras are selective about which encounters they record, Mr. Farrar noted that those officers who apply force while wearing a camera have always captured the incident on video.
also: Mr. Farrar says officers have told him of cases when citizens arrived at a Rialto police station to file a complaint and the supervisor was able to retrieve and play on the spot the video of what had transpired. “The individuals left the station with basically no other things to say and have never come back,” he said.
- NIJ Research on Bodyworn Cameras
- ACLU Primer on Police Bodycams
- Policefoundation.org Study on Bodycams
"The findings suggest more than a 50% reduction in the total number of incidents of use-of-force compared to control-conditions, and nearly ten times more citizens’ complaints in the 12-months prior to the experiment."
- NYT article on the Policefoundation.org study
Interesting: And, lest skeptics think that the officers with cameras are selective about which encounters they record, Mr. Farrar noted that those officers who apply force while wearing a camera have always captured the incident on video.
also: Mr. Farrar says officers have told him of cases when citizens arrived at a Rialto police station to file a complaint and the supervisor was able to retrieve and play on the spot the video of what had transpired. “The individuals left the station with basically no other things to say and have never come back,” he said.
If an interaction with the public is not recorded when it should have been, the officer may be subject to a discipline process,
So, if the cop turns the camera off before beating someone up, they may get 3 weeks suspension with pay.
posted by signal at 8:57 AM on May 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
So, if the cop turns the camera off before beating someone up, they may get 3 weeks suspension with pay.
posted by signal at 8:57 AM on May 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
Every time an officer responds to a call for service or is investigating an individual during the course of their duties, the cameras are to be activated. The record button is also to be pushed when an officer questions and documents someone not suspected of a crime, a police practice known as “carding.” Officers will not activate their cameras during an informal conversation with a citizen.
Mmm.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:07 AM on May 17, 2015
Mmm.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:07 AM on May 17, 2015
Good article with a lot of points about body cameras that I haven't considered.
posted by Behemoth at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Behemoth at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
The thing about the shooting of Sammy Yatim that is more fucked than him being shot in the way that he was -- and it was *extremely* fucked -- was that there was not a single indication that any of the other police standing beside the shooter (and there were a handful) were surprised.
Each time that I saw that video, I couldn't imagine being one of them and not turning to my colleague and saying, "What the fuck?!" in that pause before he shoots the downed teenager again and again. They literally just stood there.
Mind-boggling.
And yeah, "Police activated cameras" are a really expensive way of not having police cameras.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
Each time that I saw that video, I couldn't imagine being one of them and not turning to my colleague and saying, "What the fuck?!" in that pause before he shoots the downed teenager again and again. They literally just stood there.
Mind-boggling.
And yeah, "Police activated cameras" are a really expensive way of not having police cameras.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
Carding sold separately.
Yeah, seriously. And they won't get rid of it despite the mounting evidence that it does jack shit.
re: Sammy Yatim, there's no end to how deeply fucked up that entire situation was. At least the asshole was convicted.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:17 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, seriously. And they won't get rid of it despite the mounting evidence that it does jack shit.
re: Sammy Yatim, there's no end to how deeply fucked up that entire situation was. At least the asshole was convicted.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:17 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
And like Toronto doesn't have enough municipal problems.
posted by Melismata at 9:38 AM on May 17, 2015
posted by Melismata at 9:38 AM on May 17, 2015
We do. Bodycams would be a step in the right direction no matter what, though.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2015
"Mr. Farrar noted that those officers who apply force while wearing a camera have always captured the incident on video."
"The video evidence is very clear on this point."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:50 AM on May 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
"The video evidence is very clear on this point."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:50 AM on May 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seems like the cameras will reduce harm. I'm not sure what the objections are here. That they won't be perfect?
posted by Gin and Comics at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2015
posted by Gin and Comics at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2015
That they are going to be used as an evidence gathering tool instead of to control police abuses? That the cops won't share (or will destroy) evidence of their own crimes while preserving evidence that incriminates others? Or that we are still pretending that "consentual encounters" exist in this world or any other?
posted by 1adam12 at 10:23 AM on May 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 10:23 AM on May 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
That, as Tell Me No Lies noted, the absence of video evidence (if say a police officer "forgets" to record an interaction) in the presence of these cameras will be taken as "proof" that nothing happened (in the event that's in question).
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:32 AM on May 17, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:32 AM on May 17, 2015
You can't technology away a cultural problem. Police who think they have a license to kill is a cultural problem. It can only be cultured away and that's usually way more difficult. Technology is easy, culture is difficult.
posted by bleep at 10:36 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 10:36 AM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seems like the cameras will reduce harm. I'm not sure what the objections are here. That they won't be perfect?
The only substantive problem I've heard of is that victims of domestic abuse, witnesses to violent crimes, and just about anyone who lives in a gang neighborhood will be much more reluctant to call the cops. Controls or not, there are times I want to talk to the police and remain anonymous.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:42 AM on May 17, 2015
The only substantive problem I've heard of is that victims of domestic abuse, witnesses to violent crimes, and just about anyone who lives in a gang neighborhood will be much more reluctant to call the cops. Controls or not, there are times I want to talk to the police and remain anonymous.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:42 AM on May 17, 2015
Welcome to 2013, Toronto, we've had them in Calgary since then. But then our force isn't a corrupt hyper-militarized racist bunch of thugs who go to KKK retreats in the States, but we're the rednecks and you're just awesome and inclusive.
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP? You have a minuscule crime rate- you're safer than any, ANY city in Western Canada and you don't hear the motherfucking sirens and see the police parade at 140 up the most important downtown streets in Calgary or Vancouver so just what the fuck is with your police force? Why are they run as if you're Camden when you aren't even Portland crime-wise?
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:48 AM on May 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP? You have a minuscule crime rate- you're safer than any, ANY city in Western Canada and you don't hear the motherfucking sirens and see the police parade at 140 up the most important downtown streets in Calgary or Vancouver so just what the fuck is with your police force? Why are they run as if you're Camden when you aren't even Portland crime-wise?
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:48 AM on May 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
You can't technology away a cultural problem. Police who think they have a license to kill is a cultural problem. It can only be cultured away and that's usually way more difficult. Technology is easy, culture is difficult.
And yet early results are good. In places the use of body cameras has been experimented with the officers carrying them were involved in 50% fewer violent incidents than the control group.
Obviously there need to be more studies (although dashcams have already been well proven), but a linchpin of believing you have freedom to do anything as long as no one is watching is the assumption that no one is watching.
This won't change the culture but it will hobble its expression, and if you look at the history of stomping cultures out of existence you'll find that banning public displays is always a good start.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:49 AM on May 17, 2015
And yet early results are good. In places the use of body cameras has been experimented with the officers carrying them were involved in 50% fewer violent incidents than the control group.
Obviously there need to be more studies (although dashcams have already been well proven), but a linchpin of believing you have freedom to do anything as long as no one is watching is the assumption that no one is watching.
This won't change the culture but it will hobble its expression, and if you look at the history of stomping cultures out of existence you'll find that banning public displays is always a good start.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:49 AM on May 17, 2015
Police who think they have a license to kill is a cultural problem
Police killing people in Toronto is actually a really, really rare event. Such killings get a fair bit of public outcry, we see jail time much more frequently than for cop-killings in the USA, and we have a provincial-level civilian investigation agency that is legally mandated to investigate all police-involved violence. ethnomethodologist does have a point regarding the thuggery of TPS, though I hasten to add that it's bad only in comparison to many other parts of Canada. Compared to what we've been hearing about cops in the USA, they're singing Kumbaya, here. (Which would basically make Calgary's police Jains, in this tortured analogy.)
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP?
That's more ambulances, at least in my neck of the woods (right downtown).
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:52 AM on May 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Police killing people in Toronto is actually a really, really rare event. Such killings get a fair bit of public outcry, we see jail time much more frequently than for cop-killings in the USA, and we have a provincial-level civilian investigation agency that is legally mandated to investigate all police-involved violence. ethnomethodologist does have a point regarding the thuggery of TPS, though I hasten to add that it's bad only in comparison to many other parts of Canada. Compared to what we've been hearing about cops in the USA, they're singing Kumbaya, here. (Which would basically make Calgary's police Jains, in this tortured analogy.)
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP?
That's more ambulances, at least in my neck of the woods (right downtown).
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:52 AM on May 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I talked with an acquaintance who does software for one of these body-cam systems.
As he explained it, the current state of the art is a device that an officer explicitly turns on, and is explicitly uploaded by the officer at the end of the day (with the officer having the choice of which recorded material to upload). If we want something that isn't controlled by the officer wearing it, that will be something new, and it will be much more expensive.
posted by idiopath at 11:10 AM on May 17, 2015
As he explained it, the current state of the art is a device that an officer explicitly turns on, and is explicitly uploaded by the officer at the end of the day (with the officer having the choice of which recorded material to upload). If we want something that isn't controlled by the officer wearing it, that will be something new, and it will be much more expensive.
posted by idiopath at 11:10 AM on May 17, 2015
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP? You have a minuscule crime rate- you're safer than any, ANY city in Western Canada and you don't hear the motherfucking sirens and see the police parade at 140 up the most important downtown streets in Calgary or Vancouver so just what the fuck is with your police force? Why are they run as if you're Camden when you aren't even Portland crime-wise?
Ehh, most of the sirens are just traffic cops pulling over speeders and stuff. I live way out in the 'burbs and the sirens are near constant here too. It's how the local government raises taxes without raising taxes.
Maybe they don't do that so much in Calgary because, you know, oil money.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:12 PM on May 17, 2015
Ehh, most of the sirens are just traffic cops pulling over speeders and stuff. I live way out in the 'burbs and the sirens are near constant here too. It's how the local government raises taxes without raising taxes.
Maybe they don't do that so much in Calgary because, you know, oil money.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:12 PM on May 17, 2015
If you're a legit cop, body cameras would probably work in your favor, preventing assaults and stuff. I remember seeing on TV the story of state trooper who was murdered during a traffic stop and his killers were caught because of the footage from his dashboard cam.
posted by jonmc at 12:30 PM on May 17, 2015
posted by jonmc at 12:30 PM on May 17, 2015
Welcome to 2013, Toronto, we've had them in Calgary since then. But then our force isn't a corrupt hyper-militarized racist bunch of thugs who go to KKK retreats in the States, but we're the rednecks and you're just awesome and inclusive.
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP? You have a minuscule crime rate- you're safer than any, ANY city in Western Canada and you don't hear the motherfucking sirens and see the police parade at 140 up the most important downtown streets in Calgary or Vancouver so just what the fuck is with your police force? Why are they run as if you're Camden when you aren't even Portland crime-wise?
Word.
The single biggest line item in the Toronto operating budget is policing and that's something like 90 per cent labour costs, and that number gets jacked up every year.
FWIW, we get sirens night and day, but we live two blocks from a fire station, so it's hard for me to give an unbiased sample. In my experience, though, it's mainly EMS and fire. But yeah, if you were staying downtown, this would have been the soundtrack of your visit. I'd also add that Toronto drivers are spectacular to watch in terms of their indifference to ambulances and fire trucks. I've seen people CUT THEM OFF. So I'd argue this adds to the intensity and quantity of sirens plus horn use on the part of emergency vehicles.
PSA: Pull the fuck over! What if you were in the gurney in that ambulance?
As for the cops, Toronto has a police union that has shaken down anyone who's spoken out against anything the cops have done wrong.
If you look up Susan Eng, you'll find the story of someone who was on the civilian oversight board for our cops who got shaken down hard when she questioned their tactics.
See also: Craig Bromell and Julian Fantino. The perfect storm of everything you don't want in a police department on both the union and management side - their terms as president of the police union (the former) and chief of police (the latter) overlapped.
Look up Mike McCormack's (current union boss) history and, well, plus ca change.
So you've gots decades of this stuff. Slapping a glorified Go Pro on some cops isn't going to get rid of carding, etc.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:51 PM on May 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just spent 15 days in the big smoke and what the FUCK is with the sirens going NONSTOP? You have a minuscule crime rate- you're safer than any, ANY city in Western Canada and you don't hear the motherfucking sirens and see the police parade at 140 up the most important downtown streets in Calgary or Vancouver so just what the fuck is with your police force? Why are they run as if you're Camden when you aren't even Portland crime-wise?
Word.
The single biggest line item in the Toronto operating budget is policing and that's something like 90 per cent labour costs, and that number gets jacked up every year.
FWIW, we get sirens night and day, but we live two blocks from a fire station, so it's hard for me to give an unbiased sample. In my experience, though, it's mainly EMS and fire. But yeah, if you were staying downtown, this would have been the soundtrack of your visit. I'd also add that Toronto drivers are spectacular to watch in terms of their indifference to ambulances and fire trucks. I've seen people CUT THEM OFF. So I'd argue this adds to the intensity and quantity of sirens plus horn use on the part of emergency vehicles.
PSA: Pull the fuck over! What if you were in the gurney in that ambulance?
As for the cops, Toronto has a police union that has shaken down anyone who's spoken out against anything the cops have done wrong.
If you look up Susan Eng, you'll find the story of someone who was on the civilian oversight board for our cops who got shaken down hard when she questioned their tactics.
See also: Craig Bromell and Julian Fantino. The perfect storm of everything you don't want in a police department on both the union and management side - their terms as president of the police union (the former) and chief of police (the latter) overlapped.
Look up Mike McCormack's (current union boss) history and, well, plus ca change.
So you've gots decades of this stuff. Slapping a glorified Go Pro on some cops isn't going to get rid of carding, etc.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:51 PM on May 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I bet you're thinking body cams are just gonna be for police, rather than as a management tool for everybody else not in eyesight of their managers at work, don't you...
Your interaction with Best Buy sales associates may be videotaped for training purposes. By entering Best Buy, you consent to be videotaped in any interaction you have with Best Buy Sales 'Associates'
posted by Fupped Duck at 7:41 AM on May 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your interaction with Best Buy sales associates may be videotaped for training purposes. By entering Best Buy, you consent to be videotaped in any interaction you have with Best Buy Sales 'Associates'
posted by Fupped Duck at 7:41 AM on May 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
re: Sammy Yatim, there's no end to how deeply fucked up that entire situation was. At least the asshole was convicted.
Did I miss something? I thought the trial on murder and attempted murder didn't start till July and, until then, he is still working for the force.
posted by saucysault at 7:42 AM on May 18, 2015
Did I miss something? I thought the trial on murder and attempted murder didn't start till July and, until then, he is still working for the force.
posted by saucysault at 7:42 AM on May 18, 2015
...you're right. Memory playing tricks on me.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2015
My hunch is that any defence counsel, or lawyer suing the TPS on grounds of violation of someone's rights, will have a very fun time with the cop who didn't turn on their bodycam, when that cop is testifying under oath.
Yes the cop can turn off the camera, or "forget" to turn it on. But they'll fail to convict a lot of cases like that, look either malicious or incompetent in front of a judge, and generally waste a lot of police time. None of those go well with being promoted.
Q: Do you follow your police procedures?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you have procedures on the use of your bodycam?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you follow those procedures?
A: No.
Q: So why not? You follow the procedures you think are useful, not all of them?
A: ...
Q: Nevermind. So you say it happened like X, correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you have any proof to back that up?
A: Yes, the other officer -
Q: Any objective proof?
A: No.
Q: Your camera would have proved which version of history is correct, right?
A: Yes.
Q: But you didn't turn it on, correct?
A: Correct.
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:00 PM on May 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes the cop can turn off the camera, or "forget" to turn it on. But they'll fail to convict a lot of cases like that, look either malicious or incompetent in front of a judge, and generally waste a lot of police time. None of those go well with being promoted.
Q: Do you follow your police procedures?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you have procedures on the use of your bodycam?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you follow those procedures?
A: No.
Q: So why not? You follow the procedures you think are useful, not all of them?
A: ...
Q: Nevermind. So you say it happened like X, correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you have any proof to back that up?
A: Yes, the other officer -
Q: Any objective proof?
A: No.
Q: Your camera would have proved which version of history is correct, right?
A: Yes.
Q: But you didn't turn it on, correct?
A: Correct.
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:00 PM on May 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's more than just not turning it on. There's not uploading it. There's hardware error. That's enough room for all sorts of excuses.
posted by idiopath at 11:35 AM on May 19, 2015
posted by idiopath at 11:35 AM on May 19, 2015
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