'Twelve officers responded to the incident, Conley said.'
June 7, 2015 5:12 PM Subscribe
"Police responding to reported disturbance at a community pool in McKinney, Texas, are seen in a video posted to YouTube aggressively subduing black teenagers and, at one point, pulling a gun on them."Scott Neuman, NPR
(continued)
"The video, posted on Saturday, shows police running after swimsuit-clad teens and one officer throwing a girl to the ground and using his body weight to pin her down. When other teens approach the officer, he releases her and briefly draws his sidearm before two other officers intervene."From The Washington Post, "New video shows Texas police officer pulling gun on teenagers at pool party":
“A fight between a mom and a girl broke out and when the cops showed up everyone ran, including the people who didn’t do anything,” Brandon Brooks, who uploaded the video to YouTube, wrote in the description. “So the cops just started putting everyone on the ground and in handcuffs for no reason. This kind of force is uncalled for especially on children and innocent bystanders.”YouTube: McKinney Police Department Press Conference 6.7.2015 (McKinney Police Chief Greg Conley holds a press conference on June 7, 2015.)
David Mack for BuzzFeed News: Texas Police Officer “On Administrative Leave” After Pulling Weapon On Teens During Pool Party
Teenagers who were at the pool party told BuzzFeed News that the gathering was an end-of-school celebration. They said that they were able to gather at the pool using guest passes and that the incident began when adults at the pool told the black children to leave the area and return to “Section 8 [public] housing.”
That is totally believable to me. McKinney is a very conservative Dallas suburb. It's the place people moved to get away from Dallas proper, a white-flight town.
The one bright spot to me is that the other (two?) cops appeared to be trying to calm down/dissuade their gun-wielding coworker, and that no one was shot or killed of course.
posted by emjaybee at 5:44 PM on June 7, 2015 [23 favorites]
That is totally believable to me. McKinney is a very conservative Dallas suburb. It's the place people moved to get away from Dallas proper, a white-flight town.
The one bright spot to me is that the other (two?) cops appeared to be trying to calm down/dissuade their gun-wielding coworker, and that no one was shot or killed of course.
posted by emjaybee at 5:44 PM on June 7, 2015 [23 favorites]
I cannot get over the video of that one cop doing a completely unnecessary barrel roll like he's in a Chuck Norris movie or something.
posted by Cash4Lead at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2015 [88 favorites]
posted by Cash4Lead at 5:45 PM on June 7, 2015 [88 favorites]
Has it always been THIS bad? Is this backlash from the recent movements, or has stuff this blatantly insane been happening the whole time and just not being reported on? I know racism isn't new but this is just completely off the wall.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:46 PM on June 7, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:46 PM on June 7, 2015 [17 favorites]
Yes.
posted by mhoye at 5:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [55 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 5:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [55 favorites]
I suspect it's always been like this, or has been like this for awhile. What's changing is a combination of camera phones and a media willing to report on it.
posted by elwoodwiles at 5:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [35 favorites]
posted by elwoodwiles at 5:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [35 favorites]
I'm just assuming it's been happening, showbiz_liz, but people have cellphone cameras now. 10 years ago, the news would have been "black teens arrested after disturbance at pool" the implication being they caused it, and no one would have paid any attention.
posted by emjaybee at 5:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [52 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 5:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [52 favorites]
I think it's important to mention the reason the fight broke out was children refusing to put up with racist adults.
Yep. They were saying "Go back to your Section 8 housing." These are grown adults talking to children. Children who were there for an end-of-school party and had guest passes to the pool. I mean... fuck. Burn everything down.
posted by naju at 5:48 PM on June 7, 2015 [43 favorites]
Yep. They were saying "Go back to your Section 8 housing." These are grown adults talking to children. Children who were there for an end-of-school party and had guest passes to the pool. I mean... fuck. Burn everything down.
posted by naju at 5:48 PM on June 7, 2015 [43 favorites]
One Facebook acquaintance of mine tried to downplay this by saying "This wasn't a race thing, this was a power thing." Another friend said "Yes, absolutely. That cop wanted to make sure those black kids knew they had no power here."
posted by KathrynT at 5:49 PM on June 7, 2015 [122 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 5:49 PM on June 7, 2015 [122 favorites]
Has it always been THIS bad?
No, before it was much, much, MUCH worst. Previously, every black person could have been thrown in jail, at least those that weren't killed and not many people would have batted an eye.
No one died here. That's a strange bit of progress.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [21 favorites]
No, before it was much, much, MUCH worst. Previously, every black person could have been thrown in jail, at least those that weren't killed and not many people would have batted an eye.
No one died here. That's a strange bit of progress.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [21 favorites]
Apparently the pool has put up a sign thanking the officers. Can we picket? Can we publish the names of every piece of garbage who chooses to be associated with that place?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
I think it's also important to notice that the only reason we are seeing this at all is because a white person with a camera in her phone pulled it out and only got away with recording to it because she was invisible to the officers despite being the same age at the same place and time.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 5:52 PM on June 7, 2015 [110 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 5:52 PM on June 7, 2015 [110 favorites]
After incidents like this, I'd like to see the police officer(s) involved be drug tested for both illegal drugs and steroids.
posted by drezdn at 5:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [27 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 5:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [27 favorites]
Yes, that reeked of 'roid rage. (Also, fascism, racism, etc.)
posted by entropicamericana at 5:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 5:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I cannot get over the video of that one cop doing a completely unnecessary barrel roll like he's in a Chuck Norris movie or something.
Did he lose his baton during that barrel roll? I think I saw the kid with the camera hand it back to him.
posted by naju at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Did he lose his baton during that barrel roll? I think I saw the kid with the camera hand it back to him.
posted by naju at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
That video made me feel ill. Not just the cop-- all the white ostensible adults standing around watching some asshole with a badge scream and swear at children.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
One other bright spot in an otherwise dismal situation is that it seems some of the white teens stood with the black teens against the racist bullshit from the white parents. I hope the next generation moves past some of this bullshit, although I think people have been wishing that for many generations without seeing their wishes fully fulfilled.
posted by Falconetti at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by Falconetti at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2015 [24 favorites]
Hey, they managed not to murder anyone on camera. Big win for the police there.
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on June 7, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:57 PM on June 7, 2015 [28 favorites]
I'm thinking of the damage this does to the psyche's of the kids. Not only in like "this is traumatic", but in a "don't trust the system. don't trust authority. don't trust white people."
And it breaks my heart.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:05 PM on June 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
And it breaks my heart.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:05 PM on June 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
I'm just here to apologize to Cash4Lead. I thought you had to be exaggerating about that barrel roll. Then I watched the video.
I was wrong. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
posted by 4ster at 6:05 PM on June 7, 2015 [25 favorites]
I was wrong. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
posted by 4ster at 6:05 PM on June 7, 2015 [25 favorites]
99 problems came up on my spotify yesterday. every time i hear it, the lyrics make more sense. when that song came out, i can bet there were any number of people thinking (and probably still think) he was exaggerating that shit. because they've been pulled over and they've never had that happen. they don't even know anyone that's been hassled by the cops. i mean, come on, cops never hassle anyone that is innocent. if that was true, wouldn't they just give everyone a bunch of trouble?
One thing I notice as I get older and learn more about how the world really works is that rap makes more and more sense.
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on June 7, 2015 [84 favorites]
One thing I notice as I get older and learn more about how the world really works is that rap makes more and more sense.
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on June 7, 2015 [84 favorites]
I remember Rodney King, and the comments from friends at the time that "the only thing unusual about this is that it was recorded." A lot of people didn't want to believe that.
Now that recording devices are everywhere, we are seeing how true it is.
Until there are consequences this will continue.
posted by librosegretti at 6:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Now that recording devices are everywhere, we are seeing how true it is.
Until there are consequences this will continue.
posted by librosegretti at 6:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah Dead Prez used to sound like posturing.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 6:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
That cop was so out of control angry and unnecessarily aggressive; he had no control of himself or the situation and nearly made things even uglier than they were, which was pretty fucking ugly. And yeah, the Captain Kirk roll was ridiculous.
posted by Red Loop at 6:18 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Red Loop at 6:18 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
I hope every person of color in the area takes their kids to that pool as many times as possible this summer.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
same as it ever was.
posted by Max Power at 6:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Max Power at 6:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Apparently Fox has the pinned teen saying "Him getting fired isn't enough", and, my god, isn't even that small thing hopelessly optimistic?
posted by Artw at 6:24 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:24 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also I'm assuming the racist indiegogo campaigns have already started just in case.
posted by Artw at 6:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
With ubiquitous cell phone cameras finally the whole world is really watching. Perhaps they'll eventually learn.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 6:35 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by AGameOfMoans at 6:35 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jesus christ, the cops just don't get what this is and has been all about. At all.
So everyone ran when they showed up? So... disturbance over? What would have happened if they had just wandered around for a half-hour or so talking to people with their hands in their pockets? Nothing? Right, exactly.
Look, cops. Cops, listen. We need that fake-military shit, like, hardly ever. It's ok if a low level criminal "gets away" this time. Really, it's ok. We're not proud of you when you use ridiculous force and all your macho "control the situation" bullshit to collar a kid who was disrespectful to you.
If that's what you wanted, join the marines, not the police.
posted by ctmf at 6:37 PM on June 7, 2015 [61 favorites]
So everyone ran when they showed up? So... disturbance over? What would have happened if they had just wandered around for a half-hour or so talking to people with their hands in their pockets? Nothing? Right, exactly.
Look, cops. Cops, listen. We need that fake-military shit, like, hardly ever. It's ok if a low level criminal "gets away" this time. Really, it's ok. We're not proud of you when you use ridiculous force and all your macho "control the situation" bullshit to collar a kid who was disrespectful to you.
If that's what you wanted, join the marines, not the police.
posted by ctmf at 6:37 PM on June 7, 2015 [61 favorites]
With ubiquitous cell phone cameras finally the whole world is really watching. Perhaps they'll eventually learn.
Yeah, during the early-2000s anti-war movement we used to chant "The whole world is watching!" at the police but we had far less recording and distributing capabilities than we have now - and we were always dismayed at what would happen.
We'd get attacked by the police, run away, bail our friends out of jail, go home, nurse our wounds, and then read the newspaper saying that "a protest grew unruly" and "dozens of people were arrested." and it was always so hard to change the conversation back.
it's different now.
posted by entropone at 6:40 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, during the early-2000s anti-war movement we used to chant "The whole world is watching!" at the police but we had far less recording and distributing capabilities than we have now - and we were always dismayed at what would happen.
We'd get attacked by the police, run away, bail our friends out of jail, go home, nurse our wounds, and then read the newspaper saying that "a protest grew unruly" and "dozens of people were arrested." and it was always so hard to change the conversation back.
it's different now.
posted by entropone at 6:40 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
If that's what you wanted, join the marines, not the police.
I think you'll find a lot of these douchebags have come straight from the military into the police.
posted by stargell at 6:44 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think you'll find a lot of these douchebags have come straight from the military into the police.
posted by stargell at 6:44 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Cue the avalanche of racist tropes from right-wing trolls in three... two... one...
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 6:44 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 6:44 PM on June 7, 2015
Fuck tha police. Forever and ever.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:48 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:48 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Privilege at its worst.
posted by buzzman at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by buzzman at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Things *may* have gotten slightly worse with the influx of dubious paramilitary bullshit post 9/11. Maybe. It would be difficult to measure, and they've clearly been some degree of awful fir far too long.
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on June 7, 2015
Hey, they managed not to murder anyone on camera. Big win for the police there.
I know -- at the end I was like, "Whew, relief, thank god none of those kids are dead." What the hell does it say about the world when a horrific violent video like this is the least horrific, violent "cops interacting with citizens" video I've seen lately?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know -- at the end I was like, "Whew, relief, thank god none of those kids are dead." What the hell does it say about the world when a horrific violent video like this is the least horrific, violent "cops interacting with citizens" video I've seen lately?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cash4Lead: “I cannot get over the video of that one cop doing a completely unnecessary barrel roll like he's in a Chuck Norris movie or something.”In the words of Artw, "That'd count as a special tactic, for sure. Is there a school for this stuff?"
I am otherwise so angry I can't even write about it.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
If we can't teach cops not to draw their guns for no damn reason all the time, we should just put some kind of monitoring device on their holsters so every time they draw their gun a couple hundred dollars gets automatically deducted from their next paycheck and donated to the ACLU.
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:51 PM on June 7, 2015 [19 favorites]
I think you'll find a lot of these douchebags have come straight from the military into the police.
The military isn't dumb. They find ways to show the crazy guys the door.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:52 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
The military isn't dumb. They find ways to show the crazy guys the door.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:52 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
Interesting info on the barrel rolling officer
posted by phoenixphoenix at 6:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by phoenixphoenix at 6:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm thinking of the damage this does to the psyche's of the kids. Not only in like "this is traumatic", but in a "don't trust the system. don't trust authority. don't trust white people."
And it breaks my heart.
I was unjustly arrested at around age 14 by cops who didn't care to determine what actually happened and who lied on their police report. That's when I learned not to trust the system or authority, and in the nearly four decades years since then, I've experienced and witnessed countless incidents that reaffirm that distrust.
I'm white.
posted by stargell at 6:54 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
And it breaks my heart.
I was unjustly arrested at around age 14 by cops who didn't care to determine what actually happened and who lied on their police report. That's when I learned not to trust the system or authority, and in the nearly four decades years since then, I've experienced and witnessed countless incidents that reaffirm that distrust.
I'm white.
posted by stargell at 6:54 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
It's ok if a low level criminal "gets away" this time.
You and I think that. Sadly, people like George "Fucking punks. These assholes. They always get away.” Zimmerman will go out hunting black kids if they feel the police aren't being hard assed enough.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You and I think that. Sadly, people like George "Fucking punks. These assholes. They always get away.” Zimmerman will go out hunting black kids if they feel the police aren't being hard assed enough.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The random white dudes milling around like a pretend vigilante force was awful. Especially the big fellow who stands right over the girl getting manhandled on the ground as if to say "I'll lend you a hand officer!"
Sadly enough I'm no longer surprised by this type of behavior from the police, but I at least had the impression that most American civilians do not approve of it. Wrong. It looked to me like those white guys showed up just to menace the kids and help the cops make some "citizen's arrests" of kids in bathing suits.
posted by pravit at 7:00 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sadly enough I'm no longer surprised by this type of behavior from the police, but I at least had the impression that most American civilians do not approve of it. Wrong. It looked to me like those white guys showed up just to menace the kids and help the cops make some "citizen's arrests" of kids in bathing suits.
posted by pravit at 7:00 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Casebolt served in the Navy from 1993 to 2003. He was an Operations Specialist First Class based in San Diego, before becoming a military police officer in Oklahoma City.
Surprise!
posted by stargell at 7:03 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Surprise!
posted by stargell at 7:03 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Black kids, a pool, the south, and cops. If you've been living in America for more than a few years you can extrapolate the rest.
The optimist in me says that there's only one cop freaking out here. When he, completely unnecessarily, pulls his gun out two other cops hustle over to keep him from getting completely out of hand. The pessimist in me notes that the nut job cop is the supervisor. I'm guessing that without video and the internet this would have gone down as teenagers fighting and resisting arrest.
There have to be consequences for cops that behave like this. Until there are I'm going to continue to believe that the actual job the police are doing is exactly the same as the one they were doing fifty years ago in the same situation.
posted by rdr at 7:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
The optimist in me says that there's only one cop freaking out here. When he, completely unnecessarily, pulls his gun out two other cops hustle over to keep him from getting completely out of hand. The pessimist in me notes that the nut job cop is the supervisor. I'm guessing that without video and the internet this would have gone down as teenagers fighting and resisting arrest.
There have to be consequences for cops that behave like this. Until there are I'm going to continue to believe that the actual job the police are doing is exactly the same as the one they were doing fifty years ago in the same situation.
posted by rdr at 7:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
The military isn't dumb. They find ways to show the crazy guys the door.
...right to your local random suburban police department.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
...right to your local random suburban police department.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
These are our children.
These are my cousins. My nieces. My nephews. The neighbors' kids, down the street. They're the kids currently being taught by my friends. The kids I consciously look out for when they seem like they're in public and alone.
Every fucking time I see a video like this it just fractures me a little more. When you're an adult you're well prepared for the racism hurled at you personally. Every microaggression has already happened to you once. But these kids? Were still young enough to dream of a just world. At such a young age, they've learned firsthand about the methods that white people will employ to keep them out of their spaces. To what lengths they could and will go.
And it's not like you can pull these kids aside and be like "don't worry about what happened at the pool, the people there were just assholes," because it's more than that. They got double-persecuted for their race and their perceived class. How much shame are you willing to pile onto children just for existing?
Because for Black people, one cost of white discomfort is police brutality. The ultimate cost of white discomfort is death.
I just. Fuck. These are our children. Just because you don't kill them outright doesn't mean that they don't die a hundred tiny little deaths from things like this.
posted by Ashen at 7:10 PM on June 7, 2015 [136 favorites]
These are my cousins. My nieces. My nephews. The neighbors' kids, down the street. They're the kids currently being taught by my friends. The kids I consciously look out for when they seem like they're in public and alone.
Every fucking time I see a video like this it just fractures me a little more. When you're an adult you're well prepared for the racism hurled at you personally. Every microaggression has already happened to you once. But these kids? Were still young enough to dream of a just world. At such a young age, they've learned firsthand about the methods that white people will employ to keep them out of their spaces. To what lengths they could and will go.
And it's not like you can pull these kids aside and be like "don't worry about what happened at the pool, the people there were just assholes," because it's more than that. They got double-persecuted for their race and their perceived class. How much shame are you willing to pile onto children just for existing?
Because for Black people, one cost of white discomfort is police brutality. The ultimate cost of white discomfort is death.
I just. Fuck. These are our children. Just because you don't kill them outright doesn't mean that they don't die a hundred tiny little deaths from things like this.
posted by Ashen at 7:10 PM on June 7, 2015 [136 favorites]
There have to be consequences for cops that behave like this.
If—IF—they're forced to turn in their badge, they end up in private security, with even fewer restraints.
posted by stargell at 7:10 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
If—IF—they're forced to turn in their badge, they end up in private security, with even fewer restraints.
posted by stargell at 7:10 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Imagine how much shit the cops got away with before everyone had a video camera in their pockets.
posted by dry white toast at 7:11 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 7:11 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I feel sick that I feel relieved that the cops didn't shoot any kids.
posted by rtha at 7:12 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rtha at 7:12 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Which isn't to say that they aren't still getting away with actual murder. But imagine how much and how long this has been going on undocumented.
posted by dry white toast at 7:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dry white toast at 7:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's an old article but it's worth reading:
The Making of the Warrior Cop [Mother Jones]
posted by Fizz at 7:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
The Making of the Warrior Cop [Mother Jones]
posted by Fizz at 7:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Imagine how much shit the cops got away with before everyone had a video camera in their pockets.
Every time you read "resisting arrest" know that something like this probably happened.
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [32 favorites]
Every time you read "resisting arrest" know that something like this probably happened.
posted by Talez at 7:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [32 favorites]
I've already seen someone comment in a Facebook thread that "It's bad and all BUT the girl who got tackled should have followed orders so..."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:14 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:14 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the question of whether it was always like this, and we're just seeing it now because of camera phones ... I think it's more likely that, because of budget cutbacks, the tactics switched from harder-to-train community-based policing to an easier-to-train approach that preaches that officers need to achieve instant, total dominance of all situations.
There's no Officer Friendly any more. There's just the poorly-trained Officer On the Ground, Punk.
Part of this is police unions that explode budgets by negotiating for (and getting) crazy pension and employment rules that explode budgets and create institutional inertia. The other part comes from Republican-led efforts to reduce taxes and budgets to the point of ineffectiveness.
You see the same trends in education. It's impossible to fire bad teachers, and it's impossible for the good teachers to focus on the basics.
The answer is more civic engagement from younger cohorts, voting for right-sized budgets and the ability for cities to bust unions that have outgrown their usefulness.
But, as you can see from this thread, the prevailing attitude is young people simply pushing back in disgust. They'll get older, make money, have families and start thinking, hey, gated communities are awesome...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:14 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's no Officer Friendly any more. There's just the poorly-trained Officer On the Ground, Punk.
Part of this is police unions that explode budgets by negotiating for (and getting) crazy pension and employment rules that explode budgets and create institutional inertia. The other part comes from Republican-led efforts to reduce taxes and budgets to the point of ineffectiveness.
You see the same trends in education. It's impossible to fire bad teachers, and it's impossible for the good teachers to focus on the basics.
The answer is more civic engagement from younger cohorts, voting for right-sized budgets and the ability for cities to bust unions that have outgrown their usefulness.
But, as you can see from this thread, the prevailing attitude is young people simply pushing back in disgust. They'll get older, make money, have families and start thinking, hey, gated communities are awesome...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:14 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Every time you read "resisting arrest" know that something like this probably happened.
Or "interfering with an officer."
posted by stargell at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
Or "interfering with an officer."
posted by stargell at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
If any American can say, "They hate us for our freedom," it's us. Unfortunately, "they" means many of my so-called fellow Americans.
I don't even know what to say anymore.
posted by droplet at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't even know what to say anymore.
posted by droplet at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ye gods, the gender dynamics between the cop, adult men, and the pinned girl are pretty fucking creepy.
Also, notice when the videographer first approaches the group of kids about to be handcuffed, they're standing there having a perfectly calm nice conversation with one of the other cops, and then the wackjob blasts into the scene like a very angry, insecure, hyperactive, overcompensating, heavily armed terrier and blows it all apart.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Also, notice when the videographer first approaches the group of kids about to be handcuffed, they're standing there having a perfectly calm nice conversation with one of the other cops, and then the wackjob blasts into the scene like a very angry, insecure, hyperactive, overcompensating, heavily armed terrier and blows it all apart.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:16 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Casebolt served in the Navy from 1993 to 2003. He was an Operations Specialist First Class
Ten years in the Navy and he didn't make Chief Petty Officer.
They saw he was crazy, they didn't promote him, so he left.
Navy 1, McKinney Police 0
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [28 favorites]
Ten years in the Navy and he didn't make Chief Petty Officer.
They saw he was crazy, they didn't promote him, so he left.
Navy 1, McKinney Police 0
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [28 favorites]
I've already seen someone comment in a Facebook thread that "It's bad and all BUT the girl who got tackled should have followed orders so..."
That's right, orders! The police are your natural superiors, citizen! If a peace officer requests that you stand in a particular place, you must do so immediately or you are in violation the law! Justice awaits those who dare to disobey the orders of a police officer!
posted by shakespeherian at 7:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
That's right, orders! The police are your natural superiors, citizen! If a peace officer requests that you stand in a particular place, you must do so immediately or you are in violation the law! Justice awaits those who dare to disobey the orders of a police officer!
posted by shakespeherian at 7:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
That video made me feel ill. Not just the cop-- all the white ostensible adults standing around watching some asshole with a badge scream and swear at children.
I can't stand how the white people mill around like fucking NPCs while this shit-for-brains cop gets off on pinning a fucking kid to the ground in a goddamn bathing suit.
The random white dudes milling around like a pretend vigilante force was awful. Especially the big fellow who stands right over the girl getting manhandled on the ground as if to say "I'll lend you a hand officer!"
Oh god, this took me right back to being a kid in Georgia.
Any time a police officer showed up anywhere, you'd get this random white guy tagalong. You could tell he was the fat kid in high school who got picked on the most, who wanted to do something really cool with his life where he could get paid to yell at people and shoot things, but couldn't hack it, and now works some menial job working for the same kinds of people who teased him when he was a kid. Shoulder chip factor is HUGE.
This guy always shows up (always wearing the same fucking thing, too, how is it that every racist loser in the south has a khaki polo I don't know) any time a black kid gets in trouble, and follows the cop around like a little lap dog but posturing like he's some alpha. He'll usually only ever talk to the cop in a "if he starts to act up I got him" type way. You almost never see him talk to the kid, he's scared of the kid. But feels safe and important enough to stand there smugly when some poor teenager is in handcuffs and face down so it's ok.
I don't know if these people happen everywhere or if it's just a feature of southern life (I haven't encountered it living in Chicago and I've seen plenty more police action here), but christing fuck there was always one of those guys there any time a cop showed up. Sometimes there'd be more than one guy and they'd have this awkward loser dance to see who could look the most important standing next to a scared kid.
We had a few of them in my neighborhood . They were the guys who liked to hang their head out of the car while they passed you playing or biking and tell you you were breaking some HOA ordinance. Fuck those guys. I'm glad the video showed them, too. Because it's not just aggressive asshole cops who are the problem, it's everybody who not just stands by, but also encourages the cops to be aggressive assholes by being their personal cheerleading squad.
Ugh ugh ugh.
posted by phunniemee at 7:24 PM on June 7, 2015 [65 favorites]
I can't stand how the white people mill around like fucking NPCs while this shit-for-brains cop gets off on pinning a fucking kid to the ground in a goddamn bathing suit.
The random white dudes milling around like a pretend vigilante force was awful. Especially the big fellow who stands right over the girl getting manhandled on the ground as if to say "I'll lend you a hand officer!"
Oh god, this took me right back to being a kid in Georgia.
Any time a police officer showed up anywhere, you'd get this random white guy tagalong. You could tell he was the fat kid in high school who got picked on the most, who wanted to do something really cool with his life where he could get paid to yell at people and shoot things, but couldn't hack it, and now works some menial job working for the same kinds of people who teased him when he was a kid. Shoulder chip factor is HUGE.
This guy always shows up (always wearing the same fucking thing, too, how is it that every racist loser in the south has a khaki polo I don't know) any time a black kid gets in trouble, and follows the cop around like a little lap dog but posturing like he's some alpha. He'll usually only ever talk to the cop in a "if he starts to act up I got him" type way. You almost never see him talk to the kid, he's scared of the kid. But feels safe and important enough to stand there smugly when some poor teenager is in handcuffs and face down so it's ok.
I don't know if these people happen everywhere or if it's just a feature of southern life (I haven't encountered it living in Chicago and I've seen plenty more police action here), but christing fuck there was always one of those guys there any time a cop showed up. Sometimes there'd be more than one guy and they'd have this awkward loser dance to see who could look the most important standing next to a scared kid.
We had a few of them in my neighborhood . They were the guys who liked to hang their head out of the car while they passed you playing or biking and tell you you were breaking some HOA ordinance. Fuck those guys. I'm glad the video showed them, too. Because it's not just aggressive asshole cops who are the problem, it's everybody who not just stands by, but also encourages the cops to be aggressive assholes by being their personal cheerleading squad.
Ugh ugh ugh.
posted by phunniemee at 7:24 PM on June 7, 2015 [65 favorites]
First class is a petty officer. He didn't make Chief Petty Officer. 10 years to Chief would be achievable, but kind of faster than average. 10 years is about the time you have to decide if you're going for 20 or not, because getting out at 14 or 16 is stupid.
posted by ctmf at 7:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 7:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
There were 11 other cops there. If this is about one bad egg, why didn't one of them give him some support and a breather? Because it's not about one bad egg - this is a culture problem, both in terms of a white community that calls the cops when it see black kids in its pool, and a cop culture that allows officers to do whatever they want if they feel unsafe.
posted by gingerest at 7:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 7:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [26 favorites]
But, as you can see from this thread, the prevailing attitude is young people simply pushing back in disgust. They'll get older, make money, have families and start thinking, hey, gated communities are awesome...
I'm not sure how old you think everyone in this thread is.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [33 favorites]
I'm not sure how old you think everyone in this thread is.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [33 favorites]
I couldn't even finish watching this, and then had to shut the computer off and go take some deep breaths for a while. Even before we get to the assualt on the young woman, it broke my heart to hear the boys on the curb--who've now had to be so clearly coached on the life-or-death consequences of interacting with the police--being so polite and all "sir, sir, my bag!" etc only to be yelled at and mistreated by the cops.
posted by TwoStride at 7:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 7:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Police Deploy Tear Gas on Crowds Outside of Hot 97's Summer Jam.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:29 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:29 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
The thing with learning to distrust the System and Authorities is that the System and the Authorities are not your friends unless you're benefiting directly from their oppression of others; if you're not benefiting, they are designed to oppress you. I wish that wasn't the society we live in, but it is.
posted by byanyothername at 7:41 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by byanyothername at 7:41 PM on June 7, 2015
Here is a picture of contrasts in Texas:
"Maybe if they brought bikes to the pool party things would have been a little different."
posted by JackFlash at 7:42 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
"Maybe if they brought bikes to the pool party things would have been a little different."
posted by JackFlash at 7:42 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
As nice it is to think that recording stuff like this will change anything, I think it's important to remember that this police response is EXACTLY what a large percentage of the population wants to happen when they call the police.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:42 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:42 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Because it's not about one bad egg - this is a culture problem, both in terms of a white community that calls the cops when it see black kids in its pool, and a cop culture that allows officers to do whatever they want if they feel unsafe.
That's it exactly. The running around guy and the barrel roller happened to be the most visible and dramatic examples of that jacked-up mentality on camera, but the utter contrast between what's actually happening (kids milling around talking, holding towels, etc.) and whatever action film must be playing in these cops' heads is gob-smacking. It's like they think they're in the opening 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan and are completely out of touch with reality.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [45 favorites]
That's it exactly. The running around guy and the barrel roller happened to be the most visible and dramatic examples of that jacked-up mentality on camera, but the utter contrast between what's actually happening (kids milling around talking, holding towels, etc.) and whatever action film must be playing in these cops' heads is gob-smacking. It's like they think they're in the opening 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan and are completely out of touch with reality.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:47 PM on June 7, 2015 [45 favorites]
I've talked about this before, but I think a lot of this also comes down to cultural differences and the wide gap between them. I think we need to start having police take, at the very minimum, the same kind of cultural competency classes we give to our military in a warzone.
Defiance is a funny thing. It's not just racism. I mean, maybe that too. But it's also - look, white middle class suburban kids learn to cooperate with police officers from an early age, and are also pretty sure nothing really bad will ever happen to them as long as they cooperate with Mr. Friendly. Like, white teenagers when I was a kid getting arrested by cops for pot never fought or argued. Why would they? Their parents would come to bail them out in a couple of hours and they'd get away with community service. They had no real reason to be angry with the police. And so that's the deference the police expect as their due - middle class white norms.
And so you have a black teenage girl defying police. It doesn't mean, as some cops are trained, that she is a Criminal. Maybe she's just fed up of shit happening All The Time. But it's outside their norms even if they're not initially racist. If they're racist to start, then it's Uppity Black Girl, but even if they're not initially racist, they fundamentally don't understand anger or where it could come from or why it would be directed at them by a law-abiding citizen.
And we are trained by the police into compliance. We are trained that it is bad and wrong to interfere with police. You ask - why are people standing around? I don't think it's just racism. I think it's submission to authority, which people drink these days with their milk at breakfast. We are trained to comply, to do as we are told, and not to interfere, that the authorities are always right. And that's a problem, and that problem causes things like this.
If we want things to change, we have to look at what we are expecting is reasonable for people to do when they interact with police, and consider changing it.
posted by corb at 7:48 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
Defiance is a funny thing. It's not just racism. I mean, maybe that too. But it's also - look, white middle class suburban kids learn to cooperate with police officers from an early age, and are also pretty sure nothing really bad will ever happen to them as long as they cooperate with Mr. Friendly. Like, white teenagers when I was a kid getting arrested by cops for pot never fought or argued. Why would they? Their parents would come to bail them out in a couple of hours and they'd get away with community service. They had no real reason to be angry with the police. And so that's the deference the police expect as their due - middle class white norms.
And so you have a black teenage girl defying police. It doesn't mean, as some cops are trained, that she is a Criminal. Maybe she's just fed up of shit happening All The Time. But it's outside their norms even if they're not initially racist. If they're racist to start, then it's Uppity Black Girl, but even if they're not initially racist, they fundamentally don't understand anger or where it could come from or why it would be directed at them by a law-abiding citizen.
And we are trained by the police into compliance. We are trained that it is bad and wrong to interfere with police. You ask - why are people standing around? I don't think it's just racism. I think it's submission to authority, which people drink these days with their milk at breakfast. We are trained to comply, to do as we are told, and not to interfere, that the authorities are always right. And that's a problem, and that problem causes things like this.
If we want things to change, we have to look at what we are expecting is reasonable for people to do when they interact with police, and consider changing it.
posted by corb at 7:48 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
First class is a petty officer. He didn't make Chief Petty Officer.
Yes, and that's what I wrote...?
The larger point is that the military doesn't often create douchebags. They were douchebags from the start, the military shows their douchebag asses the door, and they go on to display their douchebagness elsewhere because undertrained and undermanned police departments hire them.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:50 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, and that's what I wrote...?
The larger point is that the military doesn't often create douchebags. They were douchebags from the start, the military shows their douchebag asses the door, and they go on to display their douchebagness elsewhere because undertrained and undermanned police departments hire them.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:50 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just noticed that, rereading. I could swear it said just "Petty Officer" when I read it. Sorry. Still, I don't think it was getting passed over for Chief that made him quit. At 10 yrs, that's still firmly in no big deal, next time for sure territory.
posted by ctmf at 7:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 7:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, FFS, these are CHILDREN. In bathing suits, no less. Reminds me of the Margaret Atwood quote, “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” Certainly, parents of white children may be afraid that the police will hassle them. Parents of children of color have a not-unreasonable fear that police officers will kill them. So very wrong.
posted by Morrigan at 7:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [43 favorites]
posted by Morrigan at 7:53 PM on June 7, 2015 [43 favorites]
that video made me cry. glad no one was seriously injured or killed. don't know what else to say.
posted by sweetkid at 7:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 7:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
corb, why are you trying so hard to make this *not* about race? Am I missing something?
posted by Xavier Xavier at 8:02 PM on June 7, 2015 [25 favorites]
posted by Xavier Xavier at 8:02 PM on June 7, 2015 [25 favorites]
But it's also - look, white middle class suburban kids learn to cooperate with police officers from an early age, and are also pretty sure nothing really bad will ever happen to them as long as they cooperate with Mr. Friendly.
Except that the young black men who were cooperating found themselves pushed on the ground, cuffed, and told the STFU. So... what's that about being treated well by the police if you're polite (and white)? The kids are only in charge of one half of that equation, alas.
posted by TwoStride at 8:03 PM on June 7, 2015 [29 favorites]
Except that the young black men who were cooperating found themselves pushed on the ground, cuffed, and told the STFU. So... what's that about being treated well by the police if you're polite (and white)? The kids are only in charge of one half of that equation, alas.
posted by TwoStride at 8:03 PM on June 7, 2015 [29 favorites]
Yes Corb, I too am missing your point about being rationale and perspective like. This is about fascist scum cops whose racist reign is fast closing.
posted by clavdivs at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
The NPR show On The Media had a nice bit this week about how news outlets use the phrase "officer-involved shooting" to dance around the fact that a cop shot somebody. I guess this would be an "officer-involved egregious abuse of authority"?
posted by uosuaq at 8:06 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 8:06 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
it is pretty sad when the response is "i am so grateful that that violent, racist, traumatizing incident of police violence against unarmed Black children doing nothing wrong didn't involve them actually committing any murders this time"
posted by NoraReed at 8:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 8:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [18 favorites]
They were the guys who liked to hang their head out of the car while they passed you playing or biking and tell you you were breaking some HOA ordinance.
George Zimmerman.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:09 PM on June 7, 2015 [24 favorites]
George Zimmerman.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:09 PM on June 7, 2015 [24 favorites]
I guess my point is that this is partially about race, but also partially about a dangerously overpowered and overreaching police system. Like, these problems aren't fixed if cops move from race to another, different shitty axis of oppression.
posted by corb at 8:09 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 8:09 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
edgeways: “Last year ”Jesus wept. Also, for the love of Christ, don't scroll down to the comments. I mean, more so than usual. Just don't read the comments.
Also last year, “11-year-old building tree fort says officer pulled gun on him, friends.”
posted by ob1quixote at 8:10 PM on June 7, 2015
And so you have a black teenage girl defying police.
No, you have a 14 year old frightened child trying to escape from a maniac with a gun who is beating her up and no one is stopping him.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:10 PM on June 7, 2015 [117 favorites]
No, you have a 14 year old frightened child trying to escape from a maniac with a gun who is beating her up and no one is stopping him.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:10 PM on June 7, 2015 [117 favorites]
yeah I don't see where she was defying him. Also she quite obviously didn't have a weapon there in her bikini.
posted by sweetkid at 8:12 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 8:12 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
My friend recently said that, while it's not quite as bad as "I'm not racist, but...", any sentence that starts "It's not about race, the REAL problem is ____" can never end well. There are always multiple intersecting Real Problems you can point to for any given thing that happens. But if you're taking pains to downplay or discount the race aspect of something, 9 times out of 10 it says more about what you'd prefer to talk about than what's really going on.
posted by naju at 8:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [51 favorites]
posted by naju at 8:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [51 favorites]
And so you have a black teenage girl defying police. It doesn't mean, as some cops are trained, that she is a Criminal. Maybe she's just fed up of shit happening All The Time. But it's outside their norms even if they're not initially racist. If they're racist to start, then it's Uppity Black Girl, but even if they're not initially racist, they fundamentally don't understand anger or where it could come from or why it would be directed at them by a law-abiding citizen.
And we are trained by the police into compliance. We are trained that it is bad and wrong to interfere with police. You ask - why are people standing around? I don't think it's just racism. I think it's submission to authority, which people drink these days with their milk at breakfast. We are trained to comply, to do as we are told, and not to interfere, that the authorities are always right. And that's a problem, and that problem causes things like this.
As a black-presenting male, I've been harassed by cops when they first see me.
However, despite being stocky and athletic, my demeanor and manner are non-threatening (Asian upbringing) and most police I've encountered decide I am not a target once I start speaking. I project that I know my rights and am very keen to obey everything a police officer tells me. So, despite having a wise mouth and comporting myself with dignity, I don't act defiantly toward cops.
EVER.
But if I had experienced life a little differently (read: if I had not been raised by my mother as I had been), my smart-ass mouth would likely have fired off a couple of lines intended to provoke and, had I been a teenager in 2015 instead of 1985, I'd probably have been arrested (for no reason) and had my life opportunities predictably curtailed. Or maybe I'd be dead.
For different reasons, I often find myself and corb on different sides of the same issue. But here, I am in complete nodding agreement.
Cops are trained to see defiance as evidence of wrongdoing, as a threat to their legitimacy that must be immediately subdued/eliminated.
Many Blacks know that too many cops are there only to make their lives worse and giving cops so much as the time of day, let alone obeying their orders without complaint, is to assent to being oppressed.
Police need to be trained differently than they have been. Police are the presumed professionals and they need to be taught how better to engage a rightfully mistrustful public.
posted by mistersquid at 8:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
And we are trained by the police into compliance. We are trained that it is bad and wrong to interfere with police. You ask - why are people standing around? I don't think it's just racism. I think it's submission to authority, which people drink these days with their milk at breakfast. We are trained to comply, to do as we are told, and not to interfere, that the authorities are always right. And that's a problem, and that problem causes things like this.
As a black-presenting male, I've been harassed by cops when they first see me.
However, despite being stocky and athletic, my demeanor and manner are non-threatening (Asian upbringing) and most police I've encountered decide I am not a target once I start speaking. I project that I know my rights and am very keen to obey everything a police officer tells me. So, despite having a wise mouth and comporting myself with dignity, I don't act defiantly toward cops.
EVER.
But if I had experienced life a little differently (read: if I had not been raised by my mother as I had been), my smart-ass mouth would likely have fired off a couple of lines intended to provoke and, had I been a teenager in 2015 instead of 1985, I'd probably have been arrested (for no reason) and had my life opportunities predictably curtailed. Or maybe I'd be dead.
For different reasons, I often find myself and corb on different sides of the same issue. But here, I am in complete nodding agreement.
Cops are trained to see defiance as evidence of wrongdoing, as a threat to their legitimacy that must be immediately subdued/eliminated.
Many Blacks know that too many cops are there only to make their lives worse and giving cops so much as the time of day, let alone obeying their orders without complaint, is to assent to being oppressed.
Police need to be trained differently than they have been. Police are the presumed professionals and they need to be taught how better to engage a rightfully mistrustful public.
posted by mistersquid at 8:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
i mean my god come the fuck on, you're a 14 year old black kid who 5 minutes ago was at a pool party and now a cop is on you for who fucking knows what reason, maybe you didn't step n fetchit fast enough, and all you know is that people jUST LIKE YOU are getting executed in broad fucking daylight by psychotic powerhungry racist maniacs JUST LIKE HIM every fucking what, 20 hours now? tell me how you'd fucking react.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [86 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:15 PM on June 7, 2015 [86 favorites]
Police need to be trained differently than they have been. Police are the presumed professionals and they need to be taught how better to engage a rightfully mistrustful public.
You know, this conclusion stands on its own without the victim-blaming preface.
posted by TwoStride at 8:18 PM on June 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
You know, this conclusion stands on its own without the victim-blaming preface.
posted by TwoStride at 8:18 PM on June 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
"...And so you have a black teenage girl defying police."
And this is why this continues to be a problem. Because plenty of people will see this actual video and form their own narrative to fit existing biases.
At 3:00 into the video the police tells the group of girls to leave, and they start to walk away, and he stops the rest of the group from following in the same direction and sends them in the opposite direction. That's when the girl calls over to someone in the other group to "call her mother"
And the officer goes over to her and pulls her back, and begins his assault.
There's still just too many people in this country who will see this video and just see "unruly blacks refusing to obey" and not "confused kids not sure what to do in a chaotic situation"
from the buzzfeed article that did most of the early reporting, this quote from the kid that shot the video...
“Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic,” he said. “[The cop] didn’t even look at me. It was kind of like I was invisible.”
posted by billyfleetwood at 8:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [58 favorites]
And this is why this continues to be a problem. Because plenty of people will see this actual video and form their own narrative to fit existing biases.
At 3:00 into the video the police tells the group of girls to leave, and they start to walk away, and he stops the rest of the group from following in the same direction and sends them in the opposite direction. That's when the girl calls over to someone in the other group to "call her mother"
And the officer goes over to her and pulls her back, and begins his assault.
There's still just too many people in this country who will see this video and just see "unruly blacks refusing to obey" and not "confused kids not sure what to do in a chaotic situation"
from the buzzfeed article that did most of the early reporting, this quote from the kid that shot the video...
“Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic,” he said. “[The cop] didn’t even look at me. It was kind of like I was invisible.”
posted by billyfleetwood at 8:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [58 favorites]
Just to back down what looks like a pile-on building up, no one has said this incident is not about race.
There are a number of elements in play here, race being foremost among them, but no one seems to be saying none of this would have happened if the victims had just minded their manners.
posted by mistersquid at 8:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
There are a number of elements in play here, race being foremost among them, but no one seems to be saying none of this would have happened if the victims had just minded their manners.
posted by mistersquid at 8:20 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
And so you have a black teenage girl defying police.
To me it looks like the girl in question was doing exactly what he told her to do; she had gotten some distance away, only she had the unmitigated gall not to do it in total silence, and he pursued her and dragged her back to the spot he had just told her and her friends to leave.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:21 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
To me it looks like the girl in question was doing exactly what he told her to do; she had gotten some distance away, only she had the unmitigated gall not to do it in total silence, and he pursued her and dragged her back to the spot he had just told her and her friends to leave.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:21 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
TwoStride, my point was not to victim blame but to show how two different perspectives can and do collide.
I stand by my explicit point that the police are the ones who need retraining.
I said nothing about the victims because, yeah, they're victims.
posted by mistersquid at 8:22 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I stand by my explicit point that the police are the ones who need retraining.
I said nothing about the victims because, yeah, they're victims.
posted by mistersquid at 8:22 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just to back down what looks like a pile-on building up, no one has said this incident is not about race.
You're right. I expressed myself poorly in the interest of brevity. Not trying to build a straw man, here.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 8:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're right. I expressed myself poorly in the interest of brevity. Not trying to build a straw man, here.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 8:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
> We are trained to comply, to do as we are told, and not to interfere, that the authorities are always right.
We are also informed (some of us, increasing numbers of us, thanks to camera phones) that if we do not comply we can be killed. If we do not immediately and completely submit - and sometimes not even then - we can be killed and many, many people will say "Well, she didn't comply." Too few say, as a first response, "What the helling fuck is an adult officer of the law tackling a child in a bathing suit for?"
Cops train us in this, as do politicians and friends and relatives and people commenting on the internet. If one's first response on seeing something like this is to wonder what the child did, then one is part of the problem.
posted by rtha at 8:24 PM on June 7, 2015 [27 favorites]
We are also informed (some of us, increasing numbers of us, thanks to camera phones) that if we do not comply we can be killed. If we do not immediately and completely submit - and sometimes not even then - we can be killed and many, many people will say "Well, she didn't comply." Too few say, as a first response, "What the helling fuck is an adult officer of the law tackling a child in a bathing suit for?"
Cops train us in this, as do politicians and friends and relatives and people commenting on the internet. If one's first response on seeing something like this is to wonder what the child did, then one is part of the problem.
posted by rtha at 8:24 PM on June 7, 2015 [27 favorites]
no one seems to be saying none of this would have happened if the victims had just minded their manners.
Nobody is saying that because who the fuck cares. The girl involved, a huge threatening man, me, a stone golem created by the tears of my enemies -- nobody who is not actually physically harming someone should be treated by a law enforcement professional this way - manners or not.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
Nobody is saying that because who the fuck cares. The girl involved, a huge threatening man, me, a stone golem created by the tears of my enemies -- nobody who is not actually physically harming someone should be treated by a law enforcement professional this way - manners or not.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
I guess my point is that this is partially about race, but also partially about a dangerously overpowered and overreaching police system
It's entirely about race, and the usage of that dangerously overpowered police system as the 21st century version of slave overseers. White college kids go on an actual riot and set shit on fire and it's "Kids, eh?"
A bunch of high school kids of colour stand up against people making racist and classist comments and a fourteen year old girl gets her face mushed into the ground.
There is no part of this that's not about the entrenched, systemic racism that time after time so many people try to pretend away with "oh it's just a couple of bad apples" or "well he should have done what the police told him." Time after time we see the exact same thing: white cops murdering and terrorizing people of colour all over the USA, with barely even a token slap on the wrist.
"What the helling fuck is an adult officer of the law tackling a child in a bathing suit for?"
Yeah there's that too.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [30 favorites]
It's entirely about race, and the usage of that dangerously overpowered police system as the 21st century version of slave overseers. White college kids go on an actual riot and set shit on fire and it's "Kids, eh?"
A bunch of high school kids of colour stand up against people making racist and classist comments and a fourteen year old girl gets her face mushed into the ground.
There is no part of this that's not about the entrenched, systemic racism that time after time so many people try to pretend away with "oh it's just a couple of bad apples" or "well he should have done what the police told him." Time after time we see the exact same thing: white cops murdering and terrorizing people of colour all over the USA, with barely even a token slap on the wrist.
"What the helling fuck is an adult officer of the law tackling a child in a bathing suit for?"
Yeah there's that too.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [30 favorites]
Here's the thing. Our compliance is rooted so deep into us that even those of us on the teen's side have trouble accepting anything else. People are arguing that it wasn't defiance. Why? Why can't it be defiance against shitty enforcers of shitty laws, and that be a good and brave and even noble act? Why do we have to say "she wasn't defiant." Why is it a problem if she was?
posted by corb at 8:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 8:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Considering how easy it is to get fired from a service sector job... this boggles the mind. Either the cop gets off with maybe a temporary pay cut or he get some sort of over-the-top charge that he couldn't possibly be convicted of. Simple firings would do so much to stop this blatantly incompetent behaviour.
I'm a lefty and always side with the right of the unions to protect their members, so I what do I do with this feeling that North American police unions need to be crushed somehow?
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:28 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
I'm a lefty and always side with the right of the unions to protect their members, so I what do I do with this feeling that North American police unions need to be crushed somehow?
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:28 PM on June 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
Anyone know if the DOJ can get involved in this, or does there need to be a legal case or some other threshold before they can jump in? Because this seems like a good "teachable moment" for this police department and many others.
posted by uosuaq at 8:29 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by uosuaq at 8:29 PM on June 7, 2015
I cannot get over the video of that one cop doing a completely unnecessary barrel roll like he's in a Chuck Norris movie or something.
I ctrl-F'ed for "Hondo," and was disappoint.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:29 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I ctrl-F'ed for "Hondo," and was disappoint.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:29 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Aren't police offices supposed to work to de-escalate matters? So even if it was Officer Friendly enforcing a good law, teenagers should be able to mouth off without being tackled for it.
posted by TwoStride at 8:30 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 8:30 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
bonobothegreat: I struggle with the same thing. Big union fan. On the other hand, police unions.
But I think police unions sometimes get a bad rap. I do not expect the union here where I work to defend employee misconduct, and they don't. I do expect the union to insist that the established disciplinary procedure is followed to the letter, and make sure the accused is represented.
It's tricky when the part about making sure the accused is represented involves paying for a third-party lawyer, who then uses every sleazy trick in the book to defend misconduct.
posted by ctmf at 8:33 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
But I think police unions sometimes get a bad rap. I do not expect the union here where I work to defend employee misconduct, and they don't. I do expect the union to insist that the established disciplinary procedure is followed to the letter, and make sure the accused is represented.
It's tricky when the part about making sure the accused is represented involves paying for a third-party lawyer, who then uses every sleazy trick in the book to defend misconduct.
posted by ctmf at 8:33 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Aren't police offices supposed to work to de-escalate matters? So even if it was Officer Friendly enforcing a good law, teenagers should be able to mouth off without being tackled for it.
TwoStride, I'm not sure if you're asking your question generally or of me.
But, yeah, I don't think anyone here disagrees with your point.
That's why we're all pissed.
posted by mistersquid at 8:33 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
TwoStride, I'm not sure if you're asking your question generally or of me.
But, yeah, I don't think anyone here disagrees with your point.
That's why we're all pissed.
posted by mistersquid at 8:33 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
We are also informed (some of us, increasing numbers of us, thanks to camera phones) that if we do not comply we can be killed.
We were directly told by a police officer that anything other than immediate obedience will lead to being executed.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:35 PM on June 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
We were directly told by a police officer that anything other than immediate obedience will lead to being executed.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:35 PM on June 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
Just a thought - before we focus too much on "fascist cops" and what-not (and I am not remotely saying the cops here were not completely wrong) I am thinking the real issue is institutionalized racism in this part of Texas. The cops here are just doing what, for the most part, the taxpayers and voters in that area want them to do.
Which really is a much bigger and more difficult problem.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 8:37 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Which really is a much bigger and more difficult problem.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 8:37 PM on June 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
just because shitty racists are gleeful when a gun is pulled on children is no reason for the cops to barrel roll in and comply.
posted by nadawi at 8:38 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 8:38 PM on June 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
TwoStride, I'm not sure if you're asking your question generally or of me. Nope, just adding onto Corb's point that it doesn't have to be "defiance" only when it's a "shitty officer."
posted by TwoStride at 8:38 PM on June 7, 2015
posted by TwoStride at 8:38 PM on June 7, 2015
Everyone should be able to mouth off to police without being arrested. I think there's even a law or Constitutional Amendment about it somewhere.
posted by corb at 8:43 PM on June 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:43 PM on June 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
I'm a lefty and always side with the right of the unions to protect their members, so I what do I do with this feeling that North American police unions need to be crushed somehow?
I support unions when they are tools for the less powerful to balance the playing field against the more powerful. My sense is that police officer's unions are often functioning to help the powerful maintain dominance over the oppressed, so I don't see a contradiction in saying they need to be disbanded, utterly.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:44 PM on June 7, 2015 [40 favorites]
I support unions when they are tools for the less powerful to balance the playing field against the more powerful. My sense is that police officer's unions are often functioning to help the powerful maintain dominance over the oppressed, so I don't see a contradiction in saying they need to be disbanded, utterly.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:44 PM on June 7, 2015 [40 favorites]
People are arguing that it wasn't defiance. Why?
For one, because I'm pedantic, and if someone is doing the foxtrot and you call it a tango, I get a nervous tic. But also because of the baggage of words. The cop tells one of the seated guys at the end, "The reason you have to sit there is that I told you to cross the street and you didn't; you became part of the mob."
So there you go. That's the narrative. It's the usual narrative, isn't it? A bunch of defiant thugs form a mob. In about ten more minutes, people will start calling it a riot. And all of those are dogwhistle code words.
You're right that there's nothing wrong with defiance, but defiance is not the same thing as annoyance or frustration, and many cops seem to have zero ability to understand body language and non-verbal cues (and a whole lot of incentive to opportunistically misunderstand them). Anything other than immediately falling facefirst onto the ground, or doing it not quite immediately enough, becomes "resisting arrest." Blinking the wrong way at someone becomes "interfering with an officer." Tripping on your shoelaces becomes "evading." Well, bullshit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:50 PM on June 7, 2015 [24 favorites]
For one, because I'm pedantic, and if someone is doing the foxtrot and you call it a tango, I get a nervous tic. But also because of the baggage of words. The cop tells one of the seated guys at the end, "The reason you have to sit there is that I told you to cross the street and you didn't; you became part of the mob."
So there you go. That's the narrative. It's the usual narrative, isn't it? A bunch of defiant thugs form a mob. In about ten more minutes, people will start calling it a riot. And all of those are dogwhistle code words.
You're right that there's nothing wrong with defiance, but defiance is not the same thing as annoyance or frustration, and many cops seem to have zero ability to understand body language and non-verbal cues (and a whole lot of incentive to opportunistically misunderstand them). Anything other than immediately falling facefirst onto the ground, or doing it not quite immediately enough, becomes "resisting arrest." Blinking the wrong way at someone becomes "interfering with an officer." Tripping on your shoelaces becomes "evading." Well, bullshit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:50 PM on June 7, 2015 [24 favorites]
So, about those "people just standing around:" What would you have they rather done?
Shouted at the cops to stop? That's what the teenagers were doing. It's a reasonable reaction, and yes, everyone should've told them to back off, but Officer Guns Solve Everything there is reacting to just that -- people around him screaming. Obviously, he's not reacting well (or appropriately) to that. I'm not sure what good more people shouting would've done.
Should they have interfered physically? We know what that generally leads to. Granted, we can assume that there are pretty safe odds that a white person intervening is less likely to be shot or otherwise brutalized than a black person doing it, but still. Intervention would be an escalation, and that would also have made things worse.
It's a catch-22, and it's awful. But other than everybody pulling out phones and filming, I'm not sure what more one can do in this situation without only giving such panicky, eager-to-be-action-movie-awesome cops more of an excuse to escalate.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Shouted at the cops to stop? That's what the teenagers were doing. It's a reasonable reaction, and yes, everyone should've told them to back off, but Officer Guns Solve Everything there is reacting to just that -- people around him screaming. Obviously, he's not reacting well (or appropriately) to that. I'm not sure what good more people shouting would've done.
Should they have interfered physically? We know what that generally leads to. Granted, we can assume that there are pretty safe odds that a white person intervening is less likely to be shot or otherwise brutalized than a black person doing it, but still. Intervention would be an escalation, and that would also have made things worse.
It's a catch-22, and it's awful. But other than everybody pulling out phones and filming, I'm not sure what more one can do in this situation without only giving such panicky, eager-to-be-action-movie-awesome cops more of an excuse to escalate.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:55 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
My sense is that police officer's unions are often functioning to help the powerful maintain dominance over the oppressed, so I don't see a contradiction in saying they need to be disbanded, utterly.
Well, how about if we try first just having police management tell the unions no sometimes? Union's gonna une. Management's gotta manage. A disciplinary action is not a court of law. Management can fire someone without the union's blessing. Let them sue.
Maybe get lawsuit insurance for that, instead of for defending lawsuits from citizens.
posted by ctmf at 8:57 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, how about if we try first just having police management tell the unions no sometimes? Union's gonna une. Management's gotta manage. A disciplinary action is not a court of law. Management can fire someone without the union's blessing. Let them sue.
Maybe get lawsuit insurance for that, instead of for defending lawsuits from citizens.
posted by ctmf at 8:57 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
what the everliving apartheid fucking fuck
posted by threeants at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by threeants at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
In a couple cases, the people "standing around" were actually egging the cops on. So, I guess maybe the thing I'd like them to do is maybe not do THAT.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:58 PM on June 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
In a couple cases, the people "standing around" we're actually egging the cops on. So, I guess maybe the thing I'd like them to do is maybe not do THAT.
I absolutely agree on that, but it's not what I read in the subtext of those comments.
Worth noting: the video of the kid & someone else's mom in the initial struggle is full of all the goading and cheering that one normally sees in schoolyard fights. People suck.
"What the helling fuck is an adult officer of the law tackling a child in a bathing suit for?"
I grew up really wanting to be a cop. My mind changed on that for a number of practical reasons. But every time I see things like this, I'm just...I get why more level-headed cops don't forcefully intervene against one another in a moment like this, particularly when there are a good number of other cops. That would be extremely dangerous. I just don't understand how you go back to your precinct or whatever and NOT immediately say, "This isn't what I signed up for" and walk out.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:04 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I absolutely agree on that, but it's not what I read in the subtext of those comments.
Worth noting: the video of the kid & someone else's mom in the initial struggle is full of all the goading and cheering that one normally sees in schoolyard fights. People suck.
"What the helling fuck is an adult officer of the law tackling a child in a bathing suit for?"
I grew up really wanting to be a cop. My mind changed on that for a number of practical reasons. But every time I see things like this, I'm just...I get why more level-headed cops don't forcefully intervene against one another in a moment like this, particularly when there are a good number of other cops. That would be extremely dangerous. I just don't understand how you go back to your precinct or whatever and NOT immediately say, "This isn't what I signed up for" and walk out.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:04 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seriously, I don't even know what to say about this video. The degree to which the police were so clearly trying to humiliate the kids and show them their place. What the fuck. Fuck.
posted by threeants at 9:05 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by threeants at 9:05 PM on June 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
i'm interested in what the incident reports said before the video was seen. if nothing else, maybe we can start charging these assholes with filing a false report.
posted by nadawi at 9:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:13 PM on June 7, 2015 [19 favorites]
Honest question: Who is the large white man who's just hovering around? Why wasn't he asked to stand back?
posted by elwoodwiles at 9:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by elwoodwiles at 9:23 PM on June 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
I wasn't going to track down who said it upthread but when I did I was like, huh, go figure.
Like TwoStride, I didn't finish watching the video of the incident. I made it about halfway through and decided I'd seen enough.
The whole incident is so infuriating and lamentable and, as a few people have noted upthread, the most surprising thing is that none of the teenagers was shot and/or killed.
That's one sorry highlight so I'm going to point to a different moment of the video that I'd managed to see which is what the assaulted girl's friends do once Casebolt starts going after her: without hesitating they run over to Casebolt and their friend and stop short of pulling their friend away from Casebolt.
That moment was exemplary and those girls are, to my mind, heroes. Their courage is more than I myself probably would have shown and that's the image I'm going to take with me as I leave this thread for night.
posted by mistersquid at 9:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Like TwoStride, I didn't finish watching the video of the incident. I made it about halfway through and decided I'd seen enough.
The whole incident is so infuriating and lamentable and, as a few people have noted upthread, the most surprising thing is that none of the teenagers was shot and/or killed.
That's one sorry highlight so I'm going to point to a different moment of the video that I'd managed to see which is what the assaulted girl's friends do once Casebolt starts going after her: without hesitating they run over to Casebolt and their friend and stop short of pulling their friend away from Casebolt.
That moment was exemplary and those girls are, to my mind, heroes. Their courage is more than I myself probably would have shown and that's the image I'm going to take with me as I leave this thread for night.
posted by mistersquid at 9:26 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
One of the links above mentioned that this cop is (perhaps was) an instructor at Executive Self-defense and Fitness. It explains that roll he did, which looked very practiced and automatic in response to (presumably) tripping. Anyway, I found this description of their “Law Enforcement” curriculum (emphasis mine):
I mean, in retrospect it make perfect sense why he had his knee on that girl's back. I've been on both sides of that technique plenty of times, and on watching the video I was glad she was on grass. But in an era of “I can't breathe” I would be most happy if physical control techniques that have a risk of fucking killing the subject would be banned completely. She can't tap out. And fighting for air gets treated as “resisting”.
posted by traveler_ at 9:31 PM on June 7, 2015 [13 favorites]
Executive Self-defense and Fitness’ LEO Training…well there's your problem. I've heard that Aikido is one of the most popular martial arts for police, as well as the Krav Maga that this school uses. Without going into all the philosophical differences between the way those schools approach responding to force and using force, I fully expect that this guy doesn't need “roid rage” to explain his actions: I predict he's fully committed to a 24/7 lifestyle of control and power, and given his authority within the police force has mistaught a generation of other officers in a way that's completely antithetical to the de-escalation ideal.
-Believes that the Officer’s safety is paramount
-Keeps in mind the use-of-force and liability issues facing law enforcement
-Aims to provide real-world effectiveness and defensible applications of reasonable force
-Takes the approach of stopping the problem and taking safe control as quickly as possible
-Provides techniques to deal with compliant, resistive, assaultive/high risk and life threatening situations
-Curriculum has been divided into different areas and topics of training
I mean, in retrospect it make perfect sense why he had his knee on that girl's back. I've been on both sides of that technique plenty of times, and on watching the video I was glad she was on grass. But in an era of “I can't breathe” I would be most happy if physical control techniques that have a risk of fucking killing the subject would be banned completely. She can't tap out. And fighting for air gets treated as “resisting”.
posted by traveler_ at 9:31 PM on June 7, 2015 [13 favorites]
Not sure who's conducting this interview with the girl who threw the party and her mother, but looks like this story is about to get much more interesting. According to her, the fight that caused the police to be called was started by two racist White adults. Also she states that most of the kids were from the neighborhood.
posted by billyfleetwood at 9:34 PM on June 7, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by billyfleetwood at 9:34 PM on June 7, 2015 [29 favorites]
elwoodwiles: Who is the large white man who's just hovering around?
The new mascot for that “White Ignorance” concept that was posted a few days ago.
posted by traveler_ at 9:36 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The new mascot for that “White Ignorance” concept that was posted a few days ago.
posted by traveler_ at 9:36 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also what is the point of even having a "press conference" if the questions are going to be answered by an AI?
posted by threeants at 9:38 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by threeants at 9:38 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I suspect Officer CaptainKirkRoll will probably be memed along the lines of Officer PepperSpray. Which isn't a bad thing because once you make them a joke in everyone's eyes then they've lost forever.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 10:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by AGameOfMoans at 10:07 PM on June 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
That commando roll...mind boggling and hilarious at the same time. In a quiet suburban nabe with kids at a pool party he is Last Action Hero? I'd hate to have someone like him around in a real crisis.
posted by telstar at 10:21 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by telstar at 10:21 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've heard that Aikido is one of the most popular martial arts for police
Oh no, not Aikido! Maybe you're thinking of Tae Kwan Do or something.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:36 PM on June 7, 2015
Oh no, not Aikido! Maybe you're thinking of Tae Kwan Do or something.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:36 PM on June 7, 2015
i don't really think it matters what they're training in when they behave like fucking animals that just escaped the zoo and ran headfirst into a meth lab.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:45 PM on June 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:45 PM on June 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
They're trained in fuck all except grandstanding and escalation.
posted by Artw at 10:59 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:59 PM on June 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
IIRC Officer Pepperspray escaped all serious consequences and is currently rolling dough. Because that is the reward of worthless shitbags in this world.
posted by Artw at 11:14 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:14 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was thinking of Aikido. The emphasis on controlling an opponent with a minimum of harm, especially concentrating on takedowns and joint locks, is considered by some to be a good match for police work. Krav Maga, on the other hand, is pretty eclectic but emphasizes efficiently counter-attacking an opponent's vulnerabilities. It's pretty good for self defense, and it's easier to get to a useful level of training versus Aikido, but a lot of its techniques are… incompatible… with what you'd want from a peace officer.
And this is why I think it does matter what they're training in: not because of the specific details or reputations of the martial arts systems (there's way too much individual variety to make blanket statements; most Aikido dojos you'll see are not teaching their students the way Gozo Shioda did) but because it provides a useful opportunity to answer “what should we do differently” here: this isn't a guy having a bad day, he's living his supercop fantasy out there (I surmise). He's done stuff like this before so we should review the records of past situations he's been in. He's been in a position of authority within their police department and in that martial arts school—we should review who he's taught and what he taught them. I think they'll need retraining.
And, in the bigger picture, as brought up in the mostly-contentless press conference: we need to look at how all police are being trained, to check for things that contribute to these sorts of systematic problems. Such as, to re-quote from this guy's curriculum, “Executive Self-defense and Fitness’ LEO Training / Believes that the Officer’s safety is paramount”. Thus, the public's safety is less important.
We hold firefighters in such esteem partly because they knowingly risk their own safety for the public. A police force that inverts that ethic is not a group of “heroes”, it's a group of “cowards”. That's something to fix I think.
posted by traveler_ at 11:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
And this is why I think it does matter what they're training in: not because of the specific details or reputations of the martial arts systems (there's way too much individual variety to make blanket statements; most Aikido dojos you'll see are not teaching their students the way Gozo Shioda did) but because it provides a useful opportunity to answer “what should we do differently” here: this isn't a guy having a bad day, he's living his supercop fantasy out there (I surmise). He's done stuff like this before so we should review the records of past situations he's been in. He's been in a position of authority within their police department and in that martial arts school—we should review who he's taught and what he taught them. I think they'll need retraining.
And, in the bigger picture, as brought up in the mostly-contentless press conference: we need to look at how all police are being trained, to check for things that contribute to these sorts of systematic problems. Such as, to re-quote from this guy's curriculum, “Executive Self-defense and Fitness’ LEO Training / Believes that the Officer’s safety is paramount”. Thus, the public's safety is less important.
We hold firefighters in such esteem partly because they knowingly risk their own safety for the public. A police force that inverts that ethic is not a group of “heroes”, it's a group of “cowards”. That's something to fix I think.
posted by traveler_ at 11:25 PM on June 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
"escaped all serious consequences"
You mean aside from having his law enforcement career (rightfully) ruined, losing his rather sweet UC benefit package and having his name plastered over the internet in a very bad way rendering him effectively unemployable in any professional position for the next 10 years?
My understanding is he is attempting to go out on psychiatric disability as a result of the incident which should provide him a lifetime income of about 900 a month or so - which is a pitiful way to spend the rest of your life.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 11:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You mean aside from having his law enforcement career (rightfully) ruined, losing his rather sweet UC benefit package and having his name plastered over the internet in a very bad way rendering him effectively unemployable in any professional position for the next 10 years?
My understanding is he is attempting to go out on psychiatric disability as a result of the incident which should provide him a lifetime income of about 900 a month or so - which is a pitiful way to spend the rest of your life.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 11:27 PM on June 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
If the miserable shit gets a dollar more of any anybodies money it's too much.
posted by Artw at 11:33 PM on June 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:33 PM on June 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
The kid who is dragged to the lawn by the non-barrel-roll cops is heaving and spitting as if he ran like hell. So one of my many questions is that, given there weren't allegations that one of those kids stole some sacred scroll or a bunch of money and ran, why are cops chasing down all these kids?
posted by angrycat at 1:17 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 1:17 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
It explains that roll he did, which looked very practiced and automatic in response to (presumably) tripping.
I'm sure it looked practiced because he practices at it home every night in a basement mancave covered in gun and war movie posters while blasting the Top Gun soundtrack on repeat and masturbating furiously.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:29 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm sure it looked practiced because he practices at it home every night in a basement mancave covered in gun and war movie posters while blasting the Top Gun soundtrack on repeat and masturbating furiously.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:29 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, pretty sure Officer Somersault has been waiting and hoping for the chance to leap into action against a hostile crowd. What a pathetic little monster he is. How the fuck do these little shits get to be in charge of anything, let alone given a bunch of weapons.
posted by harriet vane at 3:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by harriet vane at 3:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Fox news headline version of events: Texas officer placed on leave after video appears to show him pushing teen.
posted by rdr at 3:23 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by rdr at 3:23 AM on June 8, 2015
The statement in that Fox news story about the kids not living there appears to be an outright lie, according to the girl who organised the get together and was interviewed here.
posted by h00py at 3:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by h00py at 3:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
The kid who is dragged to the lawn by the non-barrel-roll cops is heaving and spitting as if he ran like hell
Um, the two cops dragging him in don't look nearly as fit as that kid, and they weren't winded. Didn't appear the two cops even broke a sweat.
One might conceive he was heaving and and spitting for less aerobic reasons.
posted by digitalprimate at 3:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Um, the two cops dragging him in don't look nearly as fit as that kid, and they weren't winded. Didn't appear the two cops even broke a sweat.
One might conceive he was heaving and and spitting for less aerobic reasons.
posted by digitalprimate at 3:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess my point is that this is partially about race, but also partially about a dangerously overpowered and overreaching police system. Like, these problems aren't fixed if cops move from race to another, different shitty axis of oppression.
yo, everyone upset about this, please raise your hand if you would be happy if overpowered cops kept oppressing people, but for a different arbitrary reason
no hands, huh
weird
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:58 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
yo, everyone upset about this, please raise your hand if you would be happy if overpowered cops kept oppressing people, but for a different arbitrary reason
no hands, huh
weird
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:58 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
It seems kind of clear just from that barrel roll that that specific policeman is overboard and inappropriate and just nuts, doesn't it? Being violent to a 14 year old child in a bathing suit and then feeling threatened and pulling a gun seems to fit in with how completely nuts he is. Thank God there were saner cops around to check him.
posted by gt2 at 5:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by gt2 at 5:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ten years in the Navy and he didn't make Chief Petty Officer.
They saw he was crazy, they didn't promote him, so he left.
Navy 1, McKinney Police 0
Sure as long as you ignore the fact that they released crazy man into society with martial training. If you don't then it is the Navy scoring an own goal on the society they are ostensibly protecting.
posted by srboisvert at 5:56 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
They saw he was crazy, they didn't promote him, so he left.
Navy 1, McKinney Police 0
Sure as long as you ignore the fact that they released crazy man into society with martial training. If you don't then it is the Navy scoring an own goal on the society they are ostensibly protecting.
posted by srboisvert at 5:56 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
It might be because (somebody correct me if this isn't actually right) there isn't a standardized, centralized credentialing system for cops. I don't know if the core cop training is identical across all precincts before they move to locally-relevant stuff.
And even if there were a centralized process, a private security firm would probably not be legally obligated to honor it. It would be treated more as a bonus or supplement to whatever training the firm provided. A firm intent on staffing itself with vigilante cop rejects wouldn't blink at an applicant's loss of credentials.
Hell, the precincts don't even care if applicants get kicked out of each other's forces. See: Darren Wilson.
But I think that people who leave the military should absolutely be thoroughly barred from entering law enforcement at any level, even as desk jockeys.
posted by Ashen at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
And even if there were a centralized process, a private security firm would probably not be legally obligated to honor it. It would be treated more as a bonus or supplement to whatever training the firm provided. A firm intent on staffing itself with vigilante cop rejects wouldn't blink at an applicant's loss of credentials.
Hell, the precincts don't even care if applicants get kicked out of each other's forces. See: Darren Wilson.
But I think that people who leave the military should absolutely be thoroughly barred from entering law enforcement at any level, even as desk jockeys.
posted by Ashen at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
is there anything that could prevent a person who was relieved of duty as an officer of law due to violent aggression from having a position of enforcement ever again?
An actual conviction for aggravated assault would do it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
An actual conviction for aggravated assault would do it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
If that's what you wanted, join the marines, not the police.
Right, like a lot of these local yokels could make it through a week of basic training.
posted by aught at 6:05 AM on June 8, 2015
Right, like a lot of these local yokels could make it through a week of basic training.
posted by aught at 6:05 AM on June 8, 2015
Ex-military get special consideration when it comes to hiring police. I wonder if this (this) isn't part of the problem.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:11 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:11 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
That washington post article above is nuts.
Guy seems to want a cookie for not killing people. Like, dude, your number one job is not killing people!
He complains of:
"curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority."
Like challenges to his authority are the worst possible thing.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:13 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
Guy seems to want a cookie for not killing people. Like, dude, your number one job is not killing people!
He complains of:
"curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority."
Like challenges to his authority are the worst possible thing.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:13 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
This is police culture, and it's horrifying. Those children could have been my nieces and nephews, but that doesn't even matter. They are children. American children who did nothing wrong.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:17 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:17 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Like challenges to his authority are the worst possible thing.
To guys like this, they almost certainly are. Why do you think he became a cop?
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:33 AM on June 8, 2015
To guys like this, they almost certainly are. Why do you think he became a cop?
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:33 AM on June 8, 2015
Seeing that man tell that tiny girl to put her face in the dirt is maybe the most emotionally devastating thing I have seen. She was already sitting, but no, she has to put her fucking face on the ground. Face down. In the dirt. Pulled a gun to fend off her friends to accomplish this vital peace keeping task.
fuck everything about this.
posted by skrozidile at 6:40 AM on June 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
fuck everything about this.
posted by skrozidile at 6:40 AM on June 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
So, about those "people just standing around:" What would you have they rather done?
So, I've gotten to watch my dad in a handful of police situations. My dad isn't exactly the person I'd go to a nuanced conversation on race relations, but he did grow up with no money and no parents, so has had a number of run ins with the cops from the perspective of a scared kid. It helps that my dad is white, well spoken, remains extremely calm (non-shouty) in crises, and has a pretty slight build so doesn't seem physically threatening.
I have watched my dad put himself between a cop and a handcuffed kid with his arms spread wide and calmly talk an angry cop down. I've watched him politely shame talk the big standing-around loser guys out of their little power trips and make them re-join the crowd. I've watched him deescalate situations that could have easily led to violence just by stepping in and going against mob mentality. I've seen him talk to kids lying on the ground like they're actual people who deserve respect and kindness. I've watched him drive off behind a squad car and follow them to the station to make a witness statement and so a scared kid wouldn't be completely alone.
And my dad is just some guy. He's an accountant. He's not some super action man. He just gets mad when he sees people abusing their power and tries to "have a productive conversation" (his words) when he thinks it can help. He's putting his invisible white guy powers to good use.
So it would be awesomely amazing if those people standing around could be a dissenting voice of reason. It would have been so easy for one of them to throw up his hands protectively to shield the children. So easy! It's just a gesture but it would convey a lot of meaning. But instead you had them standing around like they were sentinels protecting the hero cop from a pack of unruly kids. At the very least I would settle for them to just put down their pitchforks and torches once in a while.
posted by phunniemee at 6:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [68 favorites]
So, I've gotten to watch my dad in a handful of police situations. My dad isn't exactly the person I'd go to a nuanced conversation on race relations, but he did grow up with no money and no parents, so has had a number of run ins with the cops from the perspective of a scared kid. It helps that my dad is white, well spoken, remains extremely calm (non-shouty) in crises, and has a pretty slight build so doesn't seem physically threatening.
I have watched my dad put himself between a cop and a handcuffed kid with his arms spread wide and calmly talk an angry cop down. I've watched him politely shame talk the big standing-around loser guys out of their little power trips and make them re-join the crowd. I've watched him deescalate situations that could have easily led to violence just by stepping in and going against mob mentality. I've seen him talk to kids lying on the ground like they're actual people who deserve respect and kindness. I've watched him drive off behind a squad car and follow them to the station to make a witness statement and so a scared kid wouldn't be completely alone.
And my dad is just some guy. He's an accountant. He's not some super action man. He just gets mad when he sees people abusing their power and tries to "have a productive conversation" (his words) when he thinks it can help. He's putting his invisible white guy powers to good use.
So it would be awesomely amazing if those people standing around could be a dissenting voice of reason. It would have been so easy for one of them to throw up his hands protectively to shield the children. So easy! It's just a gesture but it would convey a lot of meaning. But instead you had them standing around like they were sentinels protecting the hero cop from a pack of unruly kids. At the very least I would settle for them to just put down their pitchforks and torches once in a while.
posted by phunniemee at 6:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [68 favorites]
That was, by any measure, a terribly executed roll. You are supposed to roll diagonally across your back, from one shoulder to the opposite hip. I (a white belt) have successfully executed this while nearly black-out drunk.
So not only is he not qualified to be a police officer -- he is also an incompetent martial artist.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
So not only is he not qualified to be a police officer -- he is also an incompetent martial artist.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Look, cops. Cops, listen. We need that fake-military shit, like, hardly ever. It's ok if a low level criminal "gets away" this time. Really, it's ok. We're not proud of you when you use ridiculous force and all your macho "control the situation" bullshit to collar a kid who was disrespectful to you.
If that's what you wanted, join the marines, not the police.
Don't tell out of control cops to join the Marines. The cops are far worse. At least with the Marines, you have to follow rules of engagement when going into enemy territory, and you can get court-martialed if you willfully violate those rules. With militarized cops, you don't have them controlled by any rules of engagement at all.
posted by jonp72 at 6:54 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
If that's what you wanted, join the marines, not the police.
Don't tell out of control cops to join the Marines. The cops are far worse. At least with the Marines, you have to follow rules of engagement when going into enemy territory, and you can get court-martialed if you willfully violate those rules. With militarized cops, you don't have them controlled by any rules of engagement at all.
posted by jonp72 at 6:54 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know what you all were watching, but I saw cops trying to quell a group of unruly and undisciplined youths. Kids who were running amok, trying to pull cops off of other kids, kids who were told to sit and stay put who decided to get up... The cop who pulled the gun was attacked from the side by one kid (where his gun is holstered) while holding down another kid. He could have thought that the kid was going for his gun. A natural reflex would be to reach for the gun and make sure that kid was subdued.
posted by Gungho at 6:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Gungho at 6:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
the cops who stopped officer shithead from murdering children aren't good cops. we know this because officer shithead wasn't put on leave until the video came out which means they covered for his ass and didn't tell the truth about what happened. they should all lose their jobs.
posted by nadawi at 7:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
I don't know what you all were watching, but I saw cops trying to quell a group of unruly and undisciplined youths.
OK that's nice, but over here on planet earth, what happened was that a white adult woman hit a black teenage girl in the face after telling her to go back to section 8 housing and when the cops were called, instead of handling the situation where an adult assaulted a child, the cops decided put a bunch of black kids face down in the dirt and drew a gun on them.
posted by phunniemee at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2015 [93 favorites]
OK that's nice, but over here on planet earth, what happened was that a white adult woman hit a black teenage girl in the face after telling her to go back to section 8 housing and when the cops were called, instead of handling the situation where an adult assaulted a child, the cops decided put a bunch of black kids face down in the dirt and drew a gun on them.
posted by phunniemee at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2015 [93 favorites]
why do kids at pool party need to be disciplined? why were the cops even there? and if you think that's an appropriate way to manhandle a girl in a bikini and you think pulling a gun on kids to subdue them is a good plan, please stay away from kids and firearms.
posted by nadawi at 7:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
I commend your dad, phunnimee, but I would also add that I don't hate on anyone for not confronting an angry person who has a firearm in their hand. I mean, yes, it would be nice if all the confused white folks ran in and shielded those kids, but I don't actually expect that of any person. I personally am not very brave, and tend to freeze when I see danger like that. If it was my kid, or a kid I felt responsible for, that might change the equation. But I would be scared as hell to get near that guy regardless.
Also, in a crowd situation, I would likely be confused as to what is actually going on, unless I was standing in just the right spot and was there the whole time. So that would probably also make me mill around or stand there stupidly.
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, in a crowd situation, I would likely be confused as to what is actually going on, unless I was standing in just the right spot and was there the whole time. So that would probably also make me mill around or stand there stupidly.
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sure as long as you ignore the fact that they released crazy man into society with martial training. If you don't then it is the Navy scoring an own goal on the society they are ostensibly protecting.
First of all, even in the military, you can't jail someone for life for being mallcoppy. They kind of, you know, have to release them once their contract is up. They can't keep them forever just on the off chance the guy ever goes into law enforcement.
Secondly, I highly doubt that the guy's 'martial training' came from the US Navy, or that he has enough of it to be a threat based on it at all. He's a threat because he's a mallcop, not because he's a competent mallcop.
posted by corb at 7:11 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
First of all, even in the military, you can't jail someone for life for being mallcoppy. They kind of, you know, have to release them once their contract is up. They can't keep them forever just on the off chance the guy ever goes into law enforcement.
Secondly, I highly doubt that the guy's 'martial training' came from the US Navy, or that he has enough of it to be a threat based on it at all. He's a threat because he's a mallcop, not because he's a competent mallcop.
posted by corb at 7:11 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't stand how the white people mill around like fucking NPCs while this shit-for-brains cop gets off on pinning a fucking kid to the ground in a goddamn bathing suit.
I can point you to dozens, probably hundreds, of videos where someone is being brutally beaten while a crowd stands around and watches and does nothing. That's how things work these days, get out your phone, record it and post it to YouTube, World Star , Reddit etc...maybe your video will go viral and you'll make a buck. Or, just stand around and watch the show. I don't understand why you think white people have any particular obligation to intervene (especially when a gun appears).
posted by MikeMc at 7:18 AM on June 8, 2015
I can point you to dozens, probably hundreds, of videos where someone is being brutally beaten while a crowd stands around and watches and does nothing. That's how things work these days, get out your phone, record it and post it to YouTube, World Star , Reddit etc...maybe your video will go viral and you'll make a buck. Or, just stand around and watch the show. I don't understand why you think white people have any particular obligation to intervene (especially when a gun appears).
posted by MikeMc at 7:18 AM on June 8, 2015
it would probably be best if we dropped the military derail.
posted by nadawi at 7:18 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:18 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
i frankly don't care what race the spectators were. i think the adults should do whatever they can to protect those kids from state sanctioned violence.
posted by nadawi at 7:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course.
Also, try not to look nervous.
posted by flabdablet at 7:25 AM on June 8, 2015
Also, try not to look nervous.
posted by flabdablet at 7:25 AM on June 8, 2015
the adults weren't just milling around, some were actively helping the cops enforce their brand of white supremacy.
posted by nadawi at 7:26 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:26 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Or, just stand around and watch the show. I don't understand why you think white people have any particular obligation to intervene (especially when a gun appears).
I certainly feel an obligation to intervene. I don't hold it against anyone who feels too scared. It's a scary situation. It's normal to feel scared. But I can't help but to think how much more scary it is for the person (the child) actually on the receiving end of the crazy power trip. The empathy and anger kicks my adrenaline into high gear. One of the things I learned from my dad is that we are all more powerful than we think we can be, and so much can change with just one person stepping up.
So far in my life this has only had the opportunity to manifest itself as me yelling at cops who I see writing unfair parking tickets or breaking traffic rules. But every time the cops show up on my block I get dressed, put on my sneakers, and go listen and watch from the front window, ready to run out and simply be a white person if I see the cops start to use force. (I will say that in the little over 3 years I've lived in this neighborhood, I have only seen the Chicago police being calm, reasonable, and conversational, so props to them.)
posted by phunniemee at 7:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
I certainly feel an obligation to intervene. I don't hold it against anyone who feels too scared. It's a scary situation. It's normal to feel scared. But I can't help but to think how much more scary it is for the person (the child) actually on the receiving end of the crazy power trip. The empathy and anger kicks my adrenaline into high gear. One of the things I learned from my dad is that we are all more powerful than we think we can be, and so much can change with just one person stepping up.
So far in my life this has only had the opportunity to manifest itself as me yelling at cops who I see writing unfair parking tickets or breaking traffic rules. But every time the cops show up on my block I get dressed, put on my sneakers, and go listen and watch from the front window, ready to run out and simply be a white person if I see the cops start to use force. (I will say that in the little over 3 years I've lived in this neighborhood, I have only seen the Chicago police being calm, reasonable, and conversational, so props to them.)
posted by phunniemee at 7:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
I don't know what you all were watching, but I saw cops trying to quell a group of unruly and undisciplined youths. Kids who were running amok, trying to pull cops off of other kids, kids who were told to sit and stay put who decided to get up...
It's good to have an apologist for police brutality show up and remind us all just how far some people are to go to excuse this sort of thing. High school teachers deal with unruly children all the time without grabbing them by the hair, throwing them to the ground, sitting on them, pulling a gun on them, screaming at them.
The girl he threw on the ground by her hair was following his orders and leaving. He went after her for giving him lip, for not respecting his authority. There was no reason in a sane world for him to do that or for you to excuse it. The boys in the first part of the video were sitting, interacting politely with a cop until another cop rolled up and escalated the situation. Again, there is no reason in a sane world for him to do that or for you to excuse it. And if the kids were unruly, it's probably because the cops, who were called after some racist whites started a fight, were clearly targeting the black children only. If you listen to what they're saying, they're trying to explain they didn't do anything, and, yes, some of them are mad. Rightfully so. If we had reasonable and sane police in this country, they would have de-escalated the situation by listening, talking to the kids, and generally just slowing down the pace of what was happening. Any decent high school teacher could give them some tips.
posted by Mavri at 7:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [54 favorites]
It's good to have an apologist for police brutality show up and remind us all just how far some people are to go to excuse this sort of thing. High school teachers deal with unruly children all the time without grabbing them by the hair, throwing them to the ground, sitting on them, pulling a gun on them, screaming at them.
The girl he threw on the ground by her hair was following his orders and leaving. He went after her for giving him lip, for not respecting his authority. There was no reason in a sane world for him to do that or for you to excuse it. The boys in the first part of the video were sitting, interacting politely with a cop until another cop rolled up and escalated the situation. Again, there is no reason in a sane world for him to do that or for you to excuse it. And if the kids were unruly, it's probably because the cops, who were called after some racist whites started a fight, were clearly targeting the black children only. If you listen to what they're saying, they're trying to explain they didn't do anything, and, yes, some of them are mad. Rightfully so. If we had reasonable and sane police in this country, they would have de-escalated the situation by listening, talking to the kids, and generally just slowing down the pace of what was happening. Any decent high school teacher could give them some tips.
posted by Mavri at 7:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [54 favorites]
And as for the kids "running amok," why the hell not let them run? What harm, except to the fragile pride of these cops, comes from letting these kids just run off? Why are some people in this country so in love with submitting to authority, no matter how unnecessary or overreaching? The two kids who ran after the cop pulled his gun on them were 1) completely justified in removing themselves from a dangerous situation, and 2) not in any kind of custody prior to the cop pulling his gun on them. They were part of the milling crowd. But apparently once they run, that's an offence worth running after them and dragging them back? Why?
posted by Mavri at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 7:45 AM on June 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
i wonder if the dashcams are still prone to "malfunction."
posted by nadawi at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by nadawi at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2015
I don't know what you all were watching, but I saw cops trying to quell a group of unruly and undisciplined youths.
I was watching a bunch of kids actually leaving until Officer Roidrage McBarrelroll Leroy Jenkinsed his way into the scene. I saw a bunch of kids trying to figure out which of the contradictory orders being barked at them to follow (WALK AWAY!!! SIT DOWN!!! GET ON THE GROUND!!! WALK AWAY!!!). When one girl hesitates, because WTF Officer Berzerker yanks her around by her hair and throws her to the ground. When some of the kids try to intervene, HE PULLS A GUN AND BRANDISHES IT AT THEM (he did this after they backed away), an act so egregious that one of the other officers motions for him to put the gun away. I turned the video off when the female victim started crying for her mother, but I'm guessing the wheezing and spitting kid was beaten up by one or both of the "good" cops.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2015 [28 favorites]
I was watching a bunch of kids actually leaving until Officer Roidrage McBarrelroll Leroy Jenkinsed his way into the scene. I saw a bunch of kids trying to figure out which of the contradictory orders being barked at them to follow (WALK AWAY!!! SIT DOWN!!! GET ON THE GROUND!!! WALK AWAY!!!). When one girl hesitates, because WTF Officer Berzerker yanks her around by her hair and throws her to the ground. When some of the kids try to intervene, HE PULLS A GUN AND BRANDISHES IT AT THEM (he did this after they backed away), an act so egregious that one of the other officers motions for him to put the gun away. I turned the video off when the female victim started crying for her mother, but I'm guessing the wheezing and spitting kid was beaten up by one or both of the "good" cops.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:55 AM on June 8, 2015 [28 favorites]
In a country where cops have been shown to kill unarmed kids without any provocation, I commend the bravery of all the kids who stayed, who shouted, who tried to get that cop to stop sitting on a nearly-naked child and waving his gun around. Tamir Rice, Aiyana Jones, and all the other children police have shot will not be forgotten.
Saying the cops reacted appropriately to this situation is honestly the stupidest thing I've seen posted on MeFi in quite a while.
posted by harriet vane at 7:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [38 favorites]
Saying the cops reacted appropriately to this situation is honestly the stupidest thing I've seen posted on MeFi in quite a while.
posted by harriet vane at 7:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [38 favorites]
WALK AWAY!!! SIT DOWN!!! GET ON THE GROUND!!! WALK AWAY!!!
Yeah that's what I saw. He also randomly starts sending them in different directions, without any thought on who came together, which made them all start trying to talk to each other because there were probably rides involved? Or other logistics?
It's like as soon as black kids are involved it's not about what normal people just do, people think it's all part of the 24/7 cycle of black kids causing trouble, because they just love troubling things up like a full time job, unlike the rest of us.
posted by sweetkid at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
Yeah that's what I saw. He also randomly starts sending them in different directions, without any thought on who came together, which made them all start trying to talk to each other because there were probably rides involved? Or other logistics?
It's like as soon as black kids are involved it's not about what normal people just do, people think it's all part of the 24/7 cycle of black kids causing trouble, because they just love troubling things up like a full time job, unlike the rest of us.
posted by sweetkid at 8:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
And that's another thing: I saw kids of all races in the crowd, but I saw only the black kids getting the full force of Officer Dredd's Hammer of Justice.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
And that's another thing: I saw kids of all races in the crowd, but I saw only the black kids getting the full force of Officer Dredd's Hammer of Justice.
He literally sprints and barrel rolls right through a pack of white kids milling around to go rough up some black kids milling around.
posted by phunniemee at 8:10 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
He literally sprints and barrel rolls right through a pack of white kids milling around to go rough up some black kids milling around.
posted by phunniemee at 8:10 AM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
Kids from the crowd remarked on that too - the boy who shot the video said "Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:12 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:12 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
The boys in the first part of the video were sitting, interacting politely with a cop until another cop rolled up and escalated the situation
Of all the crazy nonsense that goes down in that video, this is the part that really puts a lie to any claim that Ofc. Barrelroll BikiniBasher was trying to do his job or control the situation or whatever bullshit the cops are going to try to spin this as. There is literally one cop calmly talking to some of the kids, somehow managing to detain them without throwing them to the ground and putting a knee in their back, and then Ofc. Executive Self-Defense blows through and completely escalates the situation out of control. It is 100% clear that he was the problem in the situation, that it was macho tough guy choices he made that led him to roid up to completely unnecessary displays of violence and aggression. I'd be ashamed to be working with Casebolt if I were one of the other officers on the scene, but we all know the cops are going to close ranks to protect yet another sociopath in their midst.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:20 AM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
Of all the crazy nonsense that goes down in that video, this is the part that really puts a lie to any claim that Ofc. Barrelroll BikiniBasher was trying to do his job or control the situation or whatever bullshit the cops are going to try to spin this as. There is literally one cop calmly talking to some of the kids, somehow managing to detain them without throwing them to the ground and putting a knee in their back, and then Ofc. Executive Self-Defense blows through and completely escalates the situation out of control. It is 100% clear that he was the problem in the situation, that it was macho tough guy choices he made that led him to roid up to completely unnecessary displays of violence and aggression. I'd be ashamed to be working with Casebolt if I were one of the other officers on the scene, but we all know the cops are going to close ranks to protect yet another sociopath in their midst.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:20 AM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
What would be the harm in letting those kids just run off? Was there a fear that they were going to go on murderous rampages? Burn down the neighborhood? Keep the ones who were actually fighting away from each other (kids and adults). Maybe post an officer at the pool temporarily until it was clear that everyone was chill again. It's like police think their job is to intentionally escalate the situation so they can put the smack down on everyone (literally or figuratively).
You see this with stuff like shoplifting too. Yes, it's illegal and it harms businesses. There's no reason to chase someone down and violently arrest them, especially if they're a kid. Just let the kid run off. Eventually he'll be caught, and if you have him on tape he can be charged with his prior crimes.
A few nights ago I had to chase off a few kids that were sitting on the sidewalk in front of my apartment around midnight on a weekday. They were yelling and smoking pot and just generally being obnoxious teenagers. I guess I'm old enough and used enough of a stern voice that I scared them off, but it never occurred to me to call the police, especially since there were black kids in the group. My list of "valid reasons to call the cops" gets shorter every time I see videos like this.
posted by desjardins at 8:34 AM on June 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
You see this with stuff like shoplifting too. Yes, it's illegal and it harms businesses. There's no reason to chase someone down and violently arrest them, especially if they're a kid. Just let the kid run off. Eventually he'll be caught, and if you have him on tape he can be charged with his prior crimes.
A few nights ago I had to chase off a few kids that were sitting on the sidewalk in front of my apartment around midnight on a weekday. They were yelling and smoking pot and just generally being obnoxious teenagers. I guess I'm old enough and used enough of a stern voice that I scared them off, but it never occurred to me to call the police, especially since there were black kids in the group. My list of "valid reasons to call the cops" gets shorter every time I see videos like this.
posted by desjardins at 8:34 AM on June 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
This is outright insane. I think this goes to show that while video is important and helped with documenting police racism and abuse, there are always going to be people who say that a dog is a chicken, even when you show them a picture of a dog because it's important to their beliefs that everything is a chicken.
A smoking gun is not a smoking gun. Some people will say that it is a chicken.
posted by ignignokt at 8:35 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
A smoking gun is not a smoking gun. Some people will say that it is a chicken.
posted by ignignokt at 8:35 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
more context on the history of Texas desegregation and the blurred lines over public and private community property at the Atlantic and also consider the pattern of taking public facilities and selling it to private organizations for the sake of making it exempt from public policy.
As African Americans fought for desegregation in the 1950s, public pools became frequent battlefields. In Marshall, Texas, for example, in 1957, a young man backed by the NAACP sued to force the integration of a brand-new swimming pool. When the judge made it clear the city would lose, citizens voted 1,758-89 to have the city sell all of its recreational facilities rather than integrate them. The pool was sold to a local Lions’ Club, which was able to operate it as a whites-only private facility.posted by bl1nk at 8:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
In other news - the officer who shot Walter Scott in South Carolina was just formally indicted.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:57 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Here's how the kids should have behaved.
posted by TwoStride at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
How about not touching children at all who aren't posing a threat to anyone?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:03 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
"It seems kind of clear just from that barrel roll that that specific policeman is overboard and inappropriate and just nuts, doesn't it?"
That he was running around in a frenzy in response to kids at a pool party makes it clear. That he rolled after he tripped is a totally normal thing to do to avoid injury in a fall like that. I don't understand how so many people think that rolling from a fall is some sort of egregious macho thing. I learned to do that when I was a child. I watched my father, at 61 and disabled, fall when his foot failed to clear the curb he was stepping over, and as the rest of us held our breath in fear that he was about badly injure himself, he rolled right through the fall and wasn't even bruised. Knowing how to fall is important to avoid injury.
I don't think his roll demonstrates anything at all other than that he was running around like a power-mad idiot and fell when he tripped over something. That's more than damning.
Some other thoughts: note how many of the white kids, including the photographer, demonstrate that they know the black kids. This absolutely wasn't a situation where a bunch of random black kids from far away crashed a neighborhood pool party.
Note that this was not a city-owned pool, but rather a pool owned by the subdivision and controlled according to the homeowner's association. So, semi-public.
Given all the things that witnesses have said, it was a mix of people who were invited and had guest passes and people who climbed over the fence. But, predictably, some of the white adults who were there saw these black kids, and some kids climbing the fence, and just jumped to the conclusion that this was some sort of invasion from the ghetto ... and then yelled racist (and classist) stuff at some of the kids.
A fight happened. The police were called. They arrived.
And, also predictably, the police see the black kids and assume that this was some sort of invasion from the ghetto. Most of the teens move away, some of them run, but the police, especially Casebolt, only see the black teen boys as a "threat", concentrate on "controlling" them, and ignore all the white kids and mostly ignore the black teen girls. Until the girls get a little too vociferous, at which point Casebolt becomes more authoritative and then escalates. I have a lot of difficulty imagining that he would have reacted the same way to a group of white girls who behaved the same way, and I am absolutely certain he wouldn't have physically detained anyone as he does here.
It's pretty astonishing, really, that those kids rushed at him when he grabbed the girl. I'm not surprised at the instinctive reaction to such provocative behavior -- Casebolt was out-of-control and attacking this girl for no good reason. I understand the response. But I would probably have found it surprising even if some white kids had reacted that way, given that these days, who doesn't know how lethally dangerous the police are? But black kids surely know this.
Anyway, given that they rushed at him (not like they were necessarily going to attack him, just responding to what he was doing to the girl), one of the only excusable things that Casebolt does is get a little freaked out about that. That doesn't excuse him pulling his weapon, which was incredibly idiotic. The other cops knew how bad an idea that was immediately -- they saw him with his weapon aimed as more worrying than anything else, and the first thing they did was to calm him and get him to put away his gun. That one thing, right there, is the most important thing that happens in this video that's not racism. It's an example of how for so many police officers, shooting an unarmed teen is their first response when they feel even the least threatened.
Casebolt was, apparently, the ranking officer on the scene. He was the person who made this situation into the potentially lethal incident it could have been. I don't really know what's reasonable in the contemporary context to expect from subordinate officers in this sort of situation, but I do know that the reluctance to act as a check on Casebolt is a problem. I'm reminded of how in cockpit resource management, in commercial aviation, one of the things they did was to emphasize that subordinate pilots communicate their concerns in the face of dangerous authoritative decisions -- being completely silent and accommodating dangerous and bad decisions by the senior pilot is a surprising contribution to crashes. It makes sense in the military to emphasize the sanctity of command, because basically war is getting people to do dangerous things. But that's not what policing is about. Or, rather, it's not what policing should be about. Like medicine, which has the same problem, unquestioned authority is often counter-productive and causes more harm than good. Collaboration and collective expertise is important. It should be possible for lower-ranking officers on the scene to be able to counteract Casebolt's dangerous excess. The militarized, us-against-them police mentality is a serious problem.
The fact that the other officers and Casebolt don't mind the random adults hovering right above the kids they've detained is a huge clue that Casebolt's frenzy and use of force was inappropriate. If he was that concerned about establishing authority and controlling what he presumes was a chaotic and dangerous group of kids, then he absolutely shouldn't have been allowing those adults to be right there.
And, yeah, I think there's definitely a lot of racism implicit in the way that those adults behaved. Sure, part of it is the deference to authority and, presuming some good faith on their part, an attempt to act as a buffer between the police and the kids. But mostly it was blind acquiescence and abettance of a police officer who targeted black teens, escalated the situation, and used excessive force. I totally agree with phunniemee that truly responsible white adults should have actively trying to be a buffer between Casebolt and the teens, should have been talking Casebolt down, as opposed to acting as wannabe backup. There is a lot of privilege there available to those guys -- they immediately could have captured Casebolt's attention and helped to de-escalate things. But even if they thought they were "helping" in terms of trying to keep things more controlled and calm, what they were actually doing was to put a stamp of white approval on this racist policing.
Some people (mostly elsewhere) have complained that the kids ran. That was Casebolt's whole rationale -- they insult to his authority that the kids ran. There's two problems with this. The first is that this is totally normal for any large group of teens when the police roll in. I have no idea how many times in the early 80s in a small town that I was with a group of other teens -- drinking somewhere or just gathered at night after curfew (my town had a curfew for juveniles) -- and we scattered. As someone else wrote -- dispersing these kids from this unauthorized pool party was the rationale for the police to be there in force, anyway. Mission accomplished. Let them run. The second problem is I'm certain, given the other evidence, that Casebolt would have been totally fine with the kids scattering if they were white. It's black kids running away that pisses Casebolt off. Because he's a racist piece of shit.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:04 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
That he was running around in a frenzy in response to kids at a pool party makes it clear. That he rolled after he tripped is a totally normal thing to do to avoid injury in a fall like that. I don't understand how so many people think that rolling from a fall is some sort of egregious macho thing. I learned to do that when I was a child. I watched my father, at 61 and disabled, fall when his foot failed to clear the curb he was stepping over, and as the rest of us held our breath in fear that he was about badly injure himself, he rolled right through the fall and wasn't even bruised. Knowing how to fall is important to avoid injury.
I don't think his roll demonstrates anything at all other than that he was running around like a power-mad idiot and fell when he tripped over something. That's more than damning.
Some other thoughts: note how many of the white kids, including the photographer, demonstrate that they know the black kids. This absolutely wasn't a situation where a bunch of random black kids from far away crashed a neighborhood pool party.
Note that this was not a city-owned pool, but rather a pool owned by the subdivision and controlled according to the homeowner's association. So, semi-public.
Given all the things that witnesses have said, it was a mix of people who were invited and had guest passes and people who climbed over the fence. But, predictably, some of the white adults who were there saw these black kids, and some kids climbing the fence, and just jumped to the conclusion that this was some sort of invasion from the ghetto ... and then yelled racist (and classist) stuff at some of the kids.
A fight happened. The police were called. They arrived.
And, also predictably, the police see the black kids and assume that this was some sort of invasion from the ghetto. Most of the teens move away, some of them run, but the police, especially Casebolt, only see the black teen boys as a "threat", concentrate on "controlling" them, and ignore all the white kids and mostly ignore the black teen girls. Until the girls get a little too vociferous, at which point Casebolt becomes more authoritative and then escalates. I have a lot of difficulty imagining that he would have reacted the same way to a group of white girls who behaved the same way, and I am absolutely certain he wouldn't have physically detained anyone as he does here.
It's pretty astonishing, really, that those kids rushed at him when he grabbed the girl. I'm not surprised at the instinctive reaction to such provocative behavior -- Casebolt was out-of-control and attacking this girl for no good reason. I understand the response. But I would probably have found it surprising even if some white kids had reacted that way, given that these days, who doesn't know how lethally dangerous the police are? But black kids surely know this.
Anyway, given that they rushed at him (not like they were necessarily going to attack him, just responding to what he was doing to the girl), one of the only excusable things that Casebolt does is get a little freaked out about that. That doesn't excuse him pulling his weapon, which was incredibly idiotic. The other cops knew how bad an idea that was immediately -- they saw him with his weapon aimed as more worrying than anything else, and the first thing they did was to calm him and get him to put away his gun. That one thing, right there, is the most important thing that happens in this video that's not racism. It's an example of how for so many police officers, shooting an unarmed teen is their first response when they feel even the least threatened.
Casebolt was, apparently, the ranking officer on the scene. He was the person who made this situation into the potentially lethal incident it could have been. I don't really know what's reasonable in the contemporary context to expect from subordinate officers in this sort of situation, but I do know that the reluctance to act as a check on Casebolt is a problem. I'm reminded of how in cockpit resource management, in commercial aviation, one of the things they did was to emphasize that subordinate pilots communicate their concerns in the face of dangerous authoritative decisions -- being completely silent and accommodating dangerous and bad decisions by the senior pilot is a surprising contribution to crashes. It makes sense in the military to emphasize the sanctity of command, because basically war is getting people to do dangerous things. But that's not what policing is about. Or, rather, it's not what policing should be about. Like medicine, which has the same problem, unquestioned authority is often counter-productive and causes more harm than good. Collaboration and collective expertise is important. It should be possible for lower-ranking officers on the scene to be able to counteract Casebolt's dangerous excess. The militarized, us-against-them police mentality is a serious problem.
The fact that the other officers and Casebolt don't mind the random adults hovering right above the kids they've detained is a huge clue that Casebolt's frenzy and use of force was inappropriate. If he was that concerned about establishing authority and controlling what he presumes was a chaotic and dangerous group of kids, then he absolutely shouldn't have been allowing those adults to be right there.
And, yeah, I think there's definitely a lot of racism implicit in the way that those adults behaved. Sure, part of it is the deference to authority and, presuming some good faith on their part, an attempt to act as a buffer between the police and the kids. But mostly it was blind acquiescence and abettance of a police officer who targeted black teens, escalated the situation, and used excessive force. I totally agree with phunniemee that truly responsible white adults should have actively trying to be a buffer between Casebolt and the teens, should have been talking Casebolt down, as opposed to acting as wannabe backup. There is a lot of privilege there available to those guys -- they immediately could have captured Casebolt's attention and helped to de-escalate things. But even if they thought they were "helping" in terms of trying to keep things more controlled and calm, what they were actually doing was to put a stamp of white approval on this racist policing.
Some people (mostly elsewhere) have complained that the kids ran. That was Casebolt's whole rationale -- they insult to his authority that the kids ran. There's two problems with this. The first is that this is totally normal for any large group of teens when the police roll in. I have no idea how many times in the early 80s in a small town that I was with a group of other teens -- drinking somewhere or just gathered at night after curfew (my town had a curfew for juveniles) -- and we scattered. As someone else wrote -- dispersing these kids from this unauthorized pool party was the rationale for the police to be there in force, anyway. Mission accomplished. Let them run. The second problem is I'm certain, given the other evidence, that Casebolt would have been totally fine with the kids scattering if they were white. It's black kids running away that pisses Casebolt off. Because he's a racist piece of shit.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:04 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
"And, also predictably, the police see the black kids and assume that this was some sort of invasion from the ghetto."
Some sort of invasion from the ghetto? I see a pool party.
posted by parki at 9:07 AM on June 8, 2015
Some sort of invasion from the ghetto? I see a pool party.
posted by parki at 9:07 AM on June 8, 2015
Mod note: Some comments removed. Gungho, whatever your intentions may be, your actual participation in this thread is a problem and you need to give it a pass starting a couple comments ago.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
For real though, people who think the kids in this video are "out of control"...have you not ever been to a BAR? Have you not ever been to a PARTY? Have you not ever been to a concert where people are dancing and smashing around and drunk and starting fights? I have seen more chaos at my motherfucking grocery store than there was in this video, Officer MacGruberNorris's roid-rage rampage aside.
There is such a thing as "out of control" and it isn't defined as "any time there's more than three black people and some of them are talking and moving around."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:09 AM on June 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
There is such a thing as "out of control" and it isn't defined as "any time there's more than three black people and some of them are talking and moving around."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:09 AM on June 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
There was a video in a recent police violence thread of cops grabbing a teenage girl, and people from the crowd grab her back. There are two cops in plainclothes and an unmarked car, and they are shamed by the crowd (people shouting "go home!") into leaving.
Children ought to be able to "mouth off" to pretty much anyone without risking being killed under color of law; the same goes for us who are not children. Police culture is toxic, and it is what needs to change, not us. They want respect? They need to start earning it, and not by beating it out of people.
posted by rtha at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Children ought to be able to "mouth off" to pretty much anyone without risking being killed under color of law; the same goes for us who are not children. Police culture is toxic, and it is what needs to change, not us. They want respect? They need to start earning it, and not by beating it out of people.
posted by rtha at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
A motel manager pouring muratic acid in a pool to drive out the black people swimming in it, Florida, 1964.
posted by nadawi at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:16 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Some people will defend anything. Via Twitter here's a staunch defence By what I can only assume is a talking fedorah hat of a hotel owner pouring acid into his pool to get black people out.
You need to know the context, you see.
posted by Artw at 9:19 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
You need to know the context, you see.
posted by Artw at 9:19 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
A former McKinney policeman interviewed on Fox News
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I thought the barrel roll was because he tripped, too. The guy is a tool nonetheless.
posted by Mid at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by Mid at 9:24 AM on June 8, 2015
I found the video incredibly difficult to watch.
As a white person, I really struggle with how I should react if I'm ever in a situation to witness this sort of thing. (So far, I never have been.) I think the first thing I would do is to take video with my cell phone, while honestly trying not to engage to avoid being told to turn off the video. I would think that getting it on video would be really important.
If that wasn't possible, yes, I think I would probably just watch. My line of thinking would be that me trying to intervene might further escalate the situation, and that being a visible presence might help to partially inhibit escalating violence / brutality, and that I could at least serve as an impartial witness as to what had happened.
I might also approach the kids and try to get them to calm down and disperse. I might talk to the kids that were being detained and ask them if they were physically hurt or if there was someone I could call for them. I do see some adults talking to the kids and I do see at least one that appears to be black, or at least not white.
I don't think I'd be brave enough to confront the officer directly, nor try to get between him and the kids. Partially for my own safety, but also because I'd be afraid it would escalate the situation further. Maybe that's wrong of me, I don't know.
It's really discouraging to me that the first officer was clearly trying to diffuse and de-escalate the situation, and he's just completely overridden by Casebolt.
On preview - Ivan's comment about the actions of the adults in the situation being a tacit symbol of approval is very thought provoking. I'm still not sure what I would do, but I'll admit that comment really has me thinking.
posted by pallas14 at 9:25 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
As a white person, I really struggle with how I should react if I'm ever in a situation to witness this sort of thing. (So far, I never have been.) I think the first thing I would do is to take video with my cell phone, while honestly trying not to engage to avoid being told to turn off the video. I would think that getting it on video would be really important.
If that wasn't possible, yes, I think I would probably just watch. My line of thinking would be that me trying to intervene might further escalate the situation, and that being a visible presence might help to partially inhibit escalating violence / brutality, and that I could at least serve as an impartial witness as to what had happened.
I might also approach the kids and try to get them to calm down and disperse. I might talk to the kids that were being detained and ask them if they were physically hurt or if there was someone I could call for them. I do see some adults talking to the kids and I do see at least one that appears to be black, or at least not white.
I don't think I'd be brave enough to confront the officer directly, nor try to get between him and the kids. Partially for my own safety, but also because I'd be afraid it would escalate the situation further. Maybe that's wrong of me, I don't know.
It's really discouraging to me that the first officer was clearly trying to diffuse and de-escalate the situation, and he's just completely overridden by Casebolt.
On preview - Ivan's comment about the actions of the adults in the situation being a tacit symbol of approval is very thought provoking. I'm still not sure what I would do, but I'll admit that comment really has me thinking.
posted by pallas14 at 9:25 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Gungho, I was really clear about stepping away from the thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:27 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:27 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
keep in mind that white women started this and a white man helped the cops enforce their position of power. why don't we know their names? why weren't they arrested? how can citizens help cops detain children without being guilty of false imprisonment?
posted by nadawi at 9:28 AM on June 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:28 AM on June 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
I thought the barrel roll was because he tripped, too
Yes, sure--but he wouldn't have tripped if he hadn't been sprinting to the scene like someone had snatched a baby. There was no cause to be so dramatic immediately upon getting there.
(Sidenote: I also think it's telling that the videographer and his friend could pick up the dropped flashlight and walk right up to a cop and hand it back to him and have the cop be completely UNTHREATENED and dismissive of their proximity and the fact that they had something in their hands. Want to bet that the response would have been completely different if a black kid had gotten that close with something in their hands?)
posted by TwoStride at 9:31 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yes, sure--but he wouldn't have tripped if he hadn't been sprinting to the scene like someone had snatched a baby. There was no cause to be so dramatic immediately upon getting there.
(Sidenote: I also think it's telling that the videographer and his friend could pick up the dropped flashlight and walk right up to a cop and hand it back to him and have the cop be completely UNTHREATENED and dismissive of their proximity and the fact that they had something in their hands. Want to bet that the response would have been completely different if a black kid had gotten that close with something in their hands?)
posted by TwoStride at 9:31 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Okay, take the day off. Don't pull this sort of thing in the future.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:31 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:31 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
controlled according to the homeowner's association. So, semi-public.
Given all the things that witnesses have said, it was a mix of people who were invited and had guest passes and people who climbed over the fence.
Oh god, I missed that it was a homeowner's association. Those things are weirdly poisonous with rules and how often people in them call police to enforce them or take people's houses if they're violated.
I think it's reasonable to freak out if you see people climbing a fence and remonstrate them. But my god, maybe it's my Magic Hispanic Powers, but I am pretty sure that if I saw some teenagers crashing a pool, I could handle the situation by myself without calling law enforcement. But that would require some sort of actual reasonable confrontation, and it need hardly be mentioned, would not involve screaming 'go back to Section 8'.
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Given all the things that witnesses have said, it was a mix of people who were invited and had guest passes and people who climbed over the fence.
Oh god, I missed that it was a homeowner's association. Those things are weirdly poisonous with rules and how often people in them call police to enforce them or take people's houses if they're violated.
I think it's reasonable to freak out if you see people climbing a fence and remonstrate them. But my god, maybe it's my Magic Hispanic Powers, but I am pretty sure that if I saw some teenagers crashing a pool, I could handle the situation by myself without calling law enforcement. But that would require some sort of actual reasonable confrontation, and it need hardly be mentioned, would not involve screaming 'go back to Section 8'.
posted by corb at 9:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
A former McKinney policeman interviewed on Fox News
Ha! Officer Kirkroll is apparently the senior officer on scene and that's why the other cops are uncomfortable saying anything about his rampage until he's actually about to shoot someone.
Fair play to them - they do actually stop their raging babyman boss from doing that.
I like how at the end the expert sort-of acknowledges that race was a factor then quickly throws in that race wasn't a factor.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ha! Officer Kirkroll is apparently the senior officer on scene and that's why the other cops are uncomfortable saying anything about his rampage until he's actually about to shoot someone.
Fair play to them - they do actually stop their raging babyman boss from doing that.
I like how at the end the expert sort-of acknowledges that race was a factor then quickly throws in that race wasn't a factor.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
if I saw some teenagers crashing a pool,
But at least some of them had guest passes. So it's the perception of them crashing a pool that gets you into trouble.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
But at least some of them had guest passes. So it's the perception of them crashing a pool that gets you into trouble.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:35 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
From the buzzfeed article, a white girl did try to calmly intervene and ended up in cuffs.
I know none of us want to go face to face with raging cops, and there is a risk we will go to jail if we do. But it's time to consider the possibility that this is precisely what we need to risk. That if we see an injustice, and we aren't on the receiving end of it because of privilege, that we might consider stepping in and speaking up, even at personal risk.
It's terrifying to consider. But, then, consider that this is what a lot of black people risk just for being alive, as this video demonstrates.
posted by maxsparber at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [22 favorites]
I know none of us want to go face to face with raging cops, and there is a risk we will go to jail if we do. But it's time to consider the possibility that this is precisely what we need to risk. That if we see an injustice, and we aren't on the receiving end of it because of privilege, that we might consider stepping in and speaking up, even at personal risk.
It's terrifying to consider. But, then, consider that this is what a lot of black people risk just for being alive, as this video demonstrates.
posted by maxsparber at 9:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [22 favorites]
There was also a middle aged shorts wearing preppy looking black man who was yelling at the black girls, telling them to go home. I'm not necessarily more mad at him than the white guys but it's sort of curious.
posted by sweetkid at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sweetkid at 9:44 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
But at least some of them had guest passes. So it's the perception of them crashing a pool that gets you into trouble.
It seems pretty clear that while some were invited, some others were crashing. You don't climb a fence to get to a pool when you can walk in through the front gate. I would have done fuck-all about kids who were invited, but it's pretty obvious to see who's climbing over a wall or not. Like, it's an amazingly clear bright line. It doesn't excuse dickishness, and I'm sure that for at least some people it was just 'oh no HORDES' but there was an appropriate way to keep out gatecrashers. They, however, chose not to do it.
posted by corb at 9:45 AM on June 8, 2015
It seems pretty clear that while some were invited, some others were crashing. You don't climb a fence to get to a pool when you can walk in through the front gate. I would have done fuck-all about kids who were invited, but it's pretty obvious to see who's climbing over a wall or not. Like, it's an amazingly clear bright line. It doesn't excuse dickishness, and I'm sure that for at least some people it was just 'oh no HORDES' but there was an appropriate way to keep out gatecrashers. They, however, chose not to do it.
posted by corb at 9:45 AM on June 8, 2015
Is his name really Officer Casebolt? It's like a character out of Dickens or Vonnegut. Your creative writing teacher would reprimand you for lacking appropriate subtlety if you tried to name an overreacting and menacing policeman that.
It would make an elegant adjective for power-tripping idiocy, tho - "He's gone casebolt" or "what a totally casebolt thing to do."
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
It would make an elegant adjective for power-tripping idiocy, tho - "He's gone casebolt" or "what a totally casebolt thing to do."
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
But at least some of them had guest passes. So it's the perception of them crashing a pool that gets you into trouble.
Not only that, but the general perception of "crashing a pool" as like, an ENORMOUS PROBLEM and an INVASION (not that corb was saying she sees it that way--but clearly many people involved in/viewing this situation do). Yeah, it's quasi-private property. But someone coming into your neighborhood pool without a pass isn't the same as someone breaking into your house; the level of panic in the absence of any actual threat is unjustified.
The neighborhood where I grew up had an HOA and a pool; "crashing" was generally regarded as a nuisance best addressed by a "hey you kids, knock it off," not a 911 call. But then again, our neighborhood was about 50% made up of that Section 8 housing those kids outside Dallas were supposed to "go back to."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Not only that, but the general perception of "crashing a pool" as like, an ENORMOUS PROBLEM and an INVASION (not that corb was saying she sees it that way--but clearly many people involved in/viewing this situation do). Yeah, it's quasi-private property. But someone coming into your neighborhood pool without a pass isn't the same as someone breaking into your house; the level of panic in the absence of any actual threat is unjustified.
The neighborhood where I grew up had an HOA and a pool; "crashing" was generally regarded as a nuisance best addressed by a "hey you kids, knock it off," not a 911 call. But then again, our neighborhood was about 50% made up of that Section 8 housing those kids outside Dallas were supposed to "go back to."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
> But at least some of them had guest passes. So it's the perception of them crashing a pool that gets you into trouble.
This is the annoying part because I doubt it'll ever get resolved to anyone's satisfaction.
If the teens can demonstrate that they had guest passes to account for every attendee that needed one, then this is a slam-dunk case. Because then it's about cops dropping the hammer on a bunch of kids that had the right to be there. In that situation, any response is disproportionate because there is no offense to begin with.
But since that issue probably won't be settled to everyone's satisfaction, we have to have an argument about whether the cops' actual response was proportionate to the theoretical offense of trespassing. And there are shitheads out there who think that if you don't want a cop's knees on your back, then you shouldn't do anything wrong in the first place, even if the “offense” is jaywalking. Or selling loose cigarettes.
It's also annoying because I don't really care about the usage policies of a random pool complex in a random suburb of Dallas. And though those policies matter to the letter of this situation, I doubt they matter to its spirit. I seriously doubt the cops tried to account for each attendee's guest pass before they started running around and yelling.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is the annoying part because I doubt it'll ever get resolved to anyone's satisfaction.
If the teens can demonstrate that they had guest passes to account for every attendee that needed one, then this is a slam-dunk case. Because then it's about cops dropping the hammer on a bunch of kids that had the right to be there. In that situation, any response is disproportionate because there is no offense to begin with.
But since that issue probably won't be settled to everyone's satisfaction, we have to have an argument about whether the cops' actual response was proportionate to the theoretical offense of trespassing. And there are shitheads out there who think that if you don't want a cop's knees on your back, then you shouldn't do anything wrong in the first place, even if the “offense” is jaywalking. Or selling loose cigarettes.
It's also annoying because I don't really care about the usage policies of a random pool complex in a random suburb of Dallas. And though those policies matter to the letter of this situation, I doubt they matter to its spirit. I seriously doubt the cops tried to account for each attendee's guest pass before they started running around and yelling.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it sounds as if some of the kids lived in the neighborhood, and they invited a bunch of their friends to a School's Out pool party and gave them guest passes, but there weren't enough guest passes to go around, or some of the guests brought a couple of friends, etc. The usual deal with teen parties.
Adults and pool managers who are not assholes would probably say, OK, well, we'll issue some extra guest passes so that everybody can come instead of 10 or 20 kids being excluded while their friends get to go. But since HOA often stands for Huge Overweening Assholes, that wasn't going to happen here.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Adults and pool managers who are not assholes would probably say, OK, well, we'll issue some extra guest passes so that everybody can come instead of 10 or 20 kids being excluded while their friends get to go. But since HOA often stands for Huge Overweening Assholes, that wasn't going to happen here.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
But since that issue probably won't be settled to everyone's satisfaction, we have to have an argument about whether the cops' actual response was proportionate to the theoretical offense of trespassing.
Of course it wasn't proportionate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Of course it wasn't proportionate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
But since HOA often stands for Huge Overweening Assholes, that wasn't going to happen here.
Although it might have been a whole different story if the guests were white.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Although it might have been a whole different story if the guests were white.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
If the guests had been white it wouldn't have been a story in the first place.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
> Of course it wasn't proportionate.
I know that. Do you honestly believe that some Fox News talking head won't at least try to claim otherwise?
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2015
I know that. Do you honestly believe that some Fox News talking head won't at least try to claim otherwise?
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2015
Is his name really Officer Casebolt?
Even better: it's Corporal Casebolt.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:53 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Even better: it's Corporal Casebolt.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:53 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Adults and pool managers who are not assholes would probably say, OK, well, we'll issue some extra guest passes so that everybody can come instead of 10 or 20 kids being excluded while their friends get to go. But since HOA often stands for Huge Overweening Assholes, that wasn't going to happen here.
I'm pretty sure that HOAs issue things like 'guest passes' precisely to keep those kids out, in fact, because they don't want a bunch of 'outsiders' or people from outside the neighborhood. Particularly when it's in an enclave that is huddled together hoping to keep out the low-income creep.
Even better: it's Corporal Casebolt.
God is good.
posted by corb at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that HOAs issue things like 'guest passes' precisely to keep those kids out, in fact, because they don't want a bunch of 'outsiders' or people from outside the neighborhood. Particularly when it's in an enclave that is huddled together hoping to keep out the low-income creep.
Even better: it's Corporal Casebolt.
God is good.
posted by corb at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is putting the emails we got a couple of months ago from the HOA about bringing guests to the pool in our tiny little subdivision in a different light. I gathered that someone had trashed the pool area, but I'm wondering if some teenager brought brown and black friends to the pool and one of my neighbors complained.
posted by immlass at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by immlass at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
It was Corporal Casebolt, in the neighbourhood, with a pistol.
posted by parki at 9:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by parki at 9:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just imagine the shit he's pulled in the 10 years prior to this when not on camera. Let's hope something sticks.
Oh, and everyone in the organization that supported and promoted him should be fired at a minimum, obviously.
posted by Artw at 10:02 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, and everyone in the organization that supported and promoted him should be fired at a minimum, obviously.
posted by Artw at 10:02 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
There was a video in a recent police violence thread of cops grabbing a teenage girl, and people from the crowd grab her back. There are two cops in plainclothes and an unmarked car, and they are shamed by the crowd (people shouting "go home!") into leaving.
Probably this video, from NYC's 30th precinct. It's amazing to watch. I share other people's concerns about putting myself at risk or escalating the situation, but these women get up in the cops' faces and get them to leave. I would love to see a full evaluation of how that happened, and how they didn't all get arrested or hurt. Why did the cops back off? It seems so out of character for the NYPD.
posted by Mavri at 10:04 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Probably this video, from NYC's 30th precinct. It's amazing to watch. I share other people's concerns about putting myself at risk or escalating the situation, but these women get up in the cops' faces and get them to leave. I would love to see a full evaluation of how that happened, and how they didn't all get arrested or hurt. Why did the cops back off? It seems so out of character for the NYPD.
posted by Mavri at 10:04 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's kind of ridiculous that there would be quibbling about the pool rules, number of guest passes, whether there was trespassing, etc., in the face of all the other shit on display in this video.
Standard operating procedure. We'd be doing the same if he'd murdered that girl or opened fire on the crowd, both of which were not unlikely outcomes.
posted by Artw at 10:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Standard operating procedure. We'd be doing the same if he'd murdered that girl or opened fire on the crowd, both of which were not unlikely outcomes.
posted by Artw at 10:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Police culture is toxic, and it is what needs to change, not us. They want respect? They need to start earning it, and not by beating it out of people.
Please explain to me how this leads to anything other then more dead citizens? Mouthing off to a person holding a gun is a REALLY FUCKING BAD IDEA. It doesn't matter if they have a uniform on or not.
You really want to know how to change this? Peaceful protests, lobbying government bodies for changes to equipment and training, education. All that takes time and serious thought. I know it doesn't help the outrage you feel right now, but outrage isn't going to fix this problem.
Being belligerent in response to belligerence is perfect example of the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right." The only difference is, your wrong might get you killed.
and, yes, while this instance was really fucked up.. and our current culture and society is contributing to this kind of thing.. There are human beings wearing a uniform who do good and who do earn respect.
I promise that the next article we hear about Crazy Human goes on a gun shooting rampage, there will be people who are relieved that the police exist, have the training to end such a threat, and the arms in which to do so. Any outrage will be directed at the Crazy Human or the situations, institutions, and culture that caused that person to snap. The swift and quick action of law enforcement doing their job will be applauded. Those officers will have "earned respect" - some at the cost of their own lives.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry or demand change.. but mouthing off to your average police officer, who for all accounts is still a human being with all the same concerns and flaws that citizens have, is not going to improve the situation for anyone. At best, the police officer is going to remain cool and professional, at worse.. results a lot more shitty then this one.
posted by royalsong at 10:14 AM on June 8, 2015
Please explain to me how this leads to anything other then more dead citizens? Mouthing off to a person holding a gun is a REALLY FUCKING BAD IDEA. It doesn't matter if they have a uniform on or not.
You really want to know how to change this? Peaceful protests, lobbying government bodies for changes to equipment and training, education. All that takes time and serious thought. I know it doesn't help the outrage you feel right now, but outrage isn't going to fix this problem.
Being belligerent in response to belligerence is perfect example of the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right." The only difference is, your wrong might get you killed.
and, yes, while this instance was really fucked up.. and our current culture and society is contributing to this kind of thing.. There are human beings wearing a uniform who do good and who do earn respect.
I promise that the next article we hear about Crazy Human goes on a gun shooting rampage, there will be people who are relieved that the police exist, have the training to end such a threat, and the arms in which to do so. Any outrage will be directed at the Crazy Human or the situations, institutions, and culture that caused that person to snap. The swift and quick action of law enforcement doing their job will be applauded. Those officers will have "earned respect" - some at the cost of their own lives.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry or demand change.. but mouthing off to your average police officer, who for all accounts is still a human being with all the same concerns and flaws that citizens have, is not going to improve the situation for anyone. At best, the police officer is going to remain cool and professional, at worse.. results a lot more shitty then this one.
posted by royalsong at 10:14 AM on June 8, 2015
FeministaJones had a lot of important things to say about this incident, misogynoir, and how white supremacy works to divide the communities it targets.
posted by nadawi at 10:15 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:15 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
nadawi, did you mean to link something else? I mean, I think the Tweet you did link is good, but it's not a lot to say.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:17 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:17 AM on June 8, 2015
roomthreeseventeen - she makes her points as replies to that tweet - read the whole thing.
posted by nadawi at 10:19 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by nadawi at 10:19 AM on June 8, 2015
Oh, okay, sorry.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:20 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:20 AM on June 8, 2015
Part of the problem is this narrative that it is insanely dangerous to be a cop, and therefore police have every right to overreact, because underreaction could equal death. All a cop has to say is that he was scared for his safety and suddenly all other concerns go out the window.
I have a few things to say to this: Dangerous, profession, yes, and that's certainly worth noting, but hardly the most dangerous profession -- it doesn't even crack the top 10. It is eight times more deadly to be a logger than a police officer, and cops are much more likely to lose their lives from auto accident or suicide than from being attacked in the line of duty.
But even if this wasn't the case, even if cities were the Escape from New York-style gauntlets of cop murderers that we're sometimes told they are, well, that's what the police signed on for. Yes, it's a dangerous job, and, yes, there are risks with it. They get paid for the job and insured against its dangers.
You know who didn't sign on for the dangers of policework? Me. When I stand opposite a cop, if the cop is unsure of the risk, I am of the opinion that he or she needs to err on the side that protects me, because serving and protecting is supposed to be what they are all about. I expect him or her to assume the burden of that risk, because I never agreed anywhere that if a cop is afraid of me, they have a right to execute me on the spot. I didn't sign on for that, I am not insured against it, I am not rewarded for it. I'm just a citizen.
The standards for police should be no different for anybody else. If they kill me, and they were wrong, and there was no credible threat, but they just panicked and killed a person, they should risk jail time. Because, without that, the safety of the police becomes more important than the safety of the public they have sworn to protect, and they're no longer taking the risks they agreed to, but shouldering them upon the rest of the public.
posted by maxsparber at 10:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [56 favorites]
I have a few things to say to this: Dangerous, profession, yes, and that's certainly worth noting, but hardly the most dangerous profession -- it doesn't even crack the top 10. It is eight times more deadly to be a logger than a police officer, and cops are much more likely to lose their lives from auto accident or suicide than from being attacked in the line of duty.
But even if this wasn't the case, even if cities were the Escape from New York-style gauntlets of cop murderers that we're sometimes told they are, well, that's what the police signed on for. Yes, it's a dangerous job, and, yes, there are risks with it. They get paid for the job and insured against its dangers.
You know who didn't sign on for the dangers of policework? Me. When I stand opposite a cop, if the cop is unsure of the risk, I am of the opinion that he or she needs to err on the side that protects me, because serving and protecting is supposed to be what they are all about. I expect him or her to assume the burden of that risk, because I never agreed anywhere that if a cop is afraid of me, they have a right to execute me on the spot. I didn't sign on for that, I am not insured against it, I am not rewarded for it. I'm just a citizen.
The standards for police should be no different for anybody else. If they kill me, and they were wrong, and there was no credible threat, but they just panicked and killed a person, they should risk jail time. Because, without that, the safety of the police becomes more important than the safety of the public they have sworn to protect, and they're no longer taking the risks they agreed to, but shouldering them upon the rest of the public.
posted by maxsparber at 10:21 AM on June 8, 2015 [56 favorites]
Those fucking tweets Nadawi posted are CHILLING. Key pull:
At :10, Black boys came to help her and he drew his gun, teaching them early on the centuries-old lesson that helping US gets them harmedposted by corb at 10:23 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
That scene was historical. It was a White man's abuse of a Black girl/woman while Black boys/men were made powerless to do anything
Not only made powerless, but threatened with death if they dared helped her. That has been ingrained into our men's minds for generations.
...
That cop just taught those boys one of the most powerful lessons Black men have received for centuries: Black women are not worthy (of) helping.
here are some of the tweets since i know some clients won't show all replies :
So I saw the video
That was extremely gendered, on top of racialized, abuse.
That cop wanted to abuse a Black girl, specifically.
I watched the video 5 times.
This is, to me, a very clear example of what we mean when we say Black girls/women face unique brutality
He grabbed her by her hair to swing her around
While she sat, he pulled her up again to whip her around
He pushed her down to her face
He reached for one of her bikini straps
He grabbed the back of her neck and pushed her down demanding she get "on her face"
There was no reason to move her. She stopped moving. She sat still. He grabbed her and tossed her again, giving reason to push her down
At :10, Black boys came to help her and he drew his gun, teaching them early on the centuries-old lesson that helping US gets them harmed
That scene was historical. It was a White man's abuse of a Black girl/woman while Black boys/men were made powerless to do anything
Not only made powerless, but threatened with death if they dared helped her.
That has been ingrained into our men's minds for generations
A very specific tactic to drive a wedge in our community. Resentment builds from women "Why didn't you help me??" Powerlessness builds...
As men, having to face the "I can't be a man [protector-as determined by society] with Black women, so why bother?"
That cop just taught those boys one of the most powerful lessons Black men have received for centuries:
Black women are not worthy helping
The cop went on to publicly degrade this young Black girl, in front of the boys, because he could. In that moment, that was his power.
He made her his personal rag doll. His movements were gendered, racialized brutality.
He pinned her down like he was about to rape her... and... I can't watch this video any more.
They really just terrorized an entire group of teens and indoctrinated them into fearing the police... so, so early
posted by nadawi at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2015 [45 favorites]
So I saw the video
That was extremely gendered, on top of racialized, abuse.
That cop wanted to abuse a Black girl, specifically.
I watched the video 5 times.
This is, to me, a very clear example of what we mean when we say Black girls/women face unique brutality
He grabbed her by her hair to swing her around
While she sat, he pulled her up again to whip her around
He pushed her down to her face
He reached for one of her bikini straps
He grabbed the back of her neck and pushed her down demanding she get "on her face"
There was no reason to move her. She stopped moving. She sat still. He grabbed her and tossed her again, giving reason to push her down
At :10, Black boys came to help her and he drew his gun, teaching them early on the centuries-old lesson that helping US gets them harmed
That scene was historical. It was a White man's abuse of a Black girl/woman while Black boys/men were made powerless to do anything
Not only made powerless, but threatened with death if they dared helped her.
That has been ingrained into our men's minds for generations
A very specific tactic to drive a wedge in our community. Resentment builds from women "Why didn't you help me??" Powerlessness builds...
As men, having to face the "I can't be a man [protector-as determined by society] with Black women, so why bother?"
That cop just taught those boys one of the most powerful lessons Black men have received for centuries:
Black women are not worthy helping
The cop went on to publicly degrade this young Black girl, in front of the boys, because he could. In that moment, that was his power.
He made her his personal rag doll. His movements were gendered, racialized brutality.
He pinned her down like he was about to rape her... and... I can't watch this video any more.
They really just terrorized an entire group of teens and indoctrinated them into fearing the police... so, so early
posted by nadawi at 10:24 AM on June 8, 2015 [45 favorites]
I'm not sure insane over-reaction makes cops safer anyway. Remember when the NYPD tried to use those two cops getting shot to retroactively justify the murder of Eric Garner? They were sitting in a car. How was cops getting a free pass on violence going to save them exactly? Hell, if you really want to link it to Garner as the NYPD want to then police violence actually led to their deaths.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just thought of a parallel. It's about three times more dangerous to be a firefighter than a police officer. Imagine if firefighters showed up at a blaze, saw a group of bystanders, and grabbed the bystanders to use them as a human shield against the fire, wrapping themselves in the bystanders and running into the fire, and their excuse was "Well, I didn't know that they hadn't started the fire, and I panicked, and the most important thing is that I get home at the end of the day."
posted by maxsparber at 10:29 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 10:29 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
Part of the problem is this narrative that it is insanely dangerous to be a cop, and therefore police have every right to overreact, because underreaction could equal death. All a cop has to say is that he was scared for his safety and suddenly all other concerns go out the window.
This raises a good question - you have all these cops who say that they were "scared for their safety", but the people facing them and "scaring" them have been "a schlub trying to run a black market in cigarettes" or "a guy running away from them" or "a teenage girl telling a friend to call her mother".
...What kind of scaredy-cats are we making into police officers? Can we screen our potential cops for courage or something? Or should we issue them all blankies?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
This raises a good question - you have all these cops who say that they were "scared for their safety", but the people facing them and "scaring" them have been "a schlub trying to run a black market in cigarettes" or "a guy running away from them" or "a teenage girl telling a friend to call her mother".
...What kind of scaredy-cats are we making into police officers? Can we screen our potential cops for courage or something? Or should we issue them all blankies?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
@TaNehisiCoates: Getting a few requests on #McKinney. Same as it ever was. Very difficult (impossible) to not write the same thing. Again.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Mouthing off to a cop? If mouthing off is enough to set you off, you shouldn't be a cop.
I agree. But you would still be dead and the current way things work - the officer in question will probably get suspended, enough time will pass that everyone forgets about it, they will go back on the job.. and nothing from a systemic standpoint will have changed. You'll be labeled as someone who was resisting arrest. That's it. You're righteous indignation is now simply a statistic.
I would love evidence where one human mouthed off to another yielded positive change for both persons involved.
posted by royalsong at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree. But you would still be dead and the current way things work - the officer in question will probably get suspended, enough time will pass that everyone forgets about it, they will go back on the job.. and nothing from a systemic standpoint will have changed. You'll be labeled as someone who was resisting arrest. That's it. You're righteous indignation is now simply a statistic.
I would love evidence where one human mouthed off to another yielded positive change for both persons involved.
posted by royalsong at 10:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
How black kids like the ones in McKinney, Texas, can stay safe around cops: Stop being black
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree. But you would still be dead and the current way things work
This is victim blaming. If the past few months have shown us anything, mouthing off to a cop can get you dead, not mouthing off can get you dead, going where they tell you can get you dead, no going where they tell you can get you dead.
Nobody is at fault for police misconduct except the police, and there is nothing people -- especially black people -- can do to inoculate themselves. And, I'll tell you what, if I'm going to go out at the hands of a fool with a gun, I'm going to go out saying my piece.
posted by maxsparber at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
This is victim blaming. If the past few months have shown us anything, mouthing off to a cop can get you dead, not mouthing off can get you dead, going where they tell you can get you dead, no going where they tell you can get you dead.
Nobody is at fault for police misconduct except the police, and there is nothing people -- especially black people -- can do to inoculate themselves. And, I'll tell you what, if I'm going to go out at the hands of a fool with a gun, I'm going to go out saying my piece.
posted by maxsparber at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
the whole world is really watching
What's really interesting is that Africa is watching. Ain't no minorities there.
Oh, and here's a link from African twitter.
McKinney, Texas, and the Racial History of American Swimming Pools
Backyard pools and private clubs only proliferated after municipal pools were forcibly desegregated.
posted by infini at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
What's really interesting is that Africa is watching. Ain't no minorities there.
Oh, and here's a link from African twitter.
McKinney, Texas, and the Racial History of American Swimming Pools
Backyard pools and private clubs only proliferated after municipal pools were forcibly desegregated.
posted by infini at 10:33 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
> Please explain to me how this leads to anything other then more dead citizens? Mouthing off to a person holding a gun is a REALLY FUCKING BAD IDEA. It doesn't matter if they have a uniform on or not.
It seems like you don't actually disagree with me, since I didn't declare that we should all go out and shout at people with guns. Cop culture needs to change: you agree with this. There are a multitude of ways to get there, and many of them are being enacted as I write this.
And, look: People who have been totally compliant also get assaulted and shot by police. It's not like that's a guarantee to keep you safe, especially if you are young and non-white.
posted by rtha at 10:34 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
It seems like you don't actually disagree with me, since I didn't declare that we should all go out and shout at people with guns. Cop culture needs to change: you agree with this. There are a multitude of ways to get there, and many of them are being enacted as I write this.
And, look: People who have been totally compliant also get assaulted and shot by police. It's not like that's a guarantee to keep you safe, especially if you are young and non-white.
posted by rtha at 10:34 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was horrified just by the way he TALKED to the kids before he even started seriously roughing them up. Police were called for an alleged disturbance. It makes not a lick of common sense for an officer to respond to that by foaming at the mouth like an attack dog and cursing at children. Fuck that guy, and fuck the police for actively inserting violence into communities rather than diffusing and preventing it.
posted by desuetude at 10:36 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by desuetude at 10:36 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
nadawi's comment at 10:24 needs to be sidebarred if we're to learn something and not let it get lost in the thread.
posted by infini at 10:36 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by infini at 10:36 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Infini's link actually has some really interesting material.
Although many whites abandoned desegregated public pools, most did not stop swimming. Instead, they built private pools, both club and residential, and swam in them …. Suburbanites organized private club pools rather than fund public pools because club pools enabled them to control the class and racial composition of swimmers, whereas public pools did not.posted by corb at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2015
Today, that complicated legacy persists across the United States. The public pools of mid-century—with their sandy beaches, manicured lawns, and well-tended facilities—are vanishingly rare. Those sorts of amenities are now generally found behind closed gates, funded by club fees or homeowners’ dues, and not by tax dollars. And they are open to those who can afford to live in such subdivisions, but not to their neighbors just down the road.
(i think infini means my copy/paste of FeministaJones's tweets)
posted by nadawi at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, can we stop calling it "mouthing off?" That's the language the police would use, because it suggests the interaction was unnecessary and belligerent. How about something neutral, like "forcefully disagreeing."
posted by maxsparber at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2015 [32 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2015 [32 favorites]
I think the comment is at 1:24.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on June 8, 2015
it's a time zone thing - the comment is at whatever time it is for you.
also, re: black kids swimming - remember this?
posted by nadawi at 10:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
also, re: black kids swimming - remember this?
posted by nadawi at 10:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Timestamps are local.
I believe this is the comment.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I believe this is the comment.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Though Chriiiiiiist, that 'do not read the comments' rule goes x 3 for that Atlantic link.
posted by corb at 10:43 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:43 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would love evidence where one human mouthed off to another yielded positive change for both persons involved.
I crossed the street and made myself late for work one day just to tell off a cop. He was writing a parking ticket for a car that was parked in a zone that was legal to park in before 9am. It was about 7:30 am. So I crossed the street and asked him why the car was getting a ticket, and pointed to the sign and explained that there was nothing illegal about where the car was parked. I asked him what possible reason there was for ticketing a legally parked car and asked him to tear up the ticket. He just stared at me. So then I asked for his name and badge information because I was going to be writing a letter to the city and contacting the local news about this, and if he thought I was kidding then he was delusional, because there is absolutely no reason to ticket a legally parked car. Especially in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the city where many people don't speak much or any English, so formally contesting the ticket through the dept of revenue would be unduly difficult. And he laughed at me but I stood there and glared at him until he got back in his car and drove away, and then I kept standing there to make sure he didn't come right back. Because fuck that guy.
So there, that is one very small example. It yielded positive change for one person who didn't have to swim through the mires of bureaucracy or face a ~$75 parking ticket just because one cop felt like it. I could give fuck all if it yielded positive change for the cop because it's not my job to go around making assholes feel important.
And for crissakes, can we please stop using the phrase "mouth off"? It's so patronizing, like something a parent would say to a child. It's like telling a woman she's being uppity or hysterical.
posted by phunniemee at 10:45 AM on June 8, 2015 [65 favorites]
I crossed the street and made myself late for work one day just to tell off a cop. He was writing a parking ticket for a car that was parked in a zone that was legal to park in before 9am. It was about 7:30 am. So I crossed the street and asked him why the car was getting a ticket, and pointed to the sign and explained that there was nothing illegal about where the car was parked. I asked him what possible reason there was for ticketing a legally parked car and asked him to tear up the ticket. He just stared at me. So then I asked for his name and badge information because I was going to be writing a letter to the city and contacting the local news about this, and if he thought I was kidding then he was delusional, because there is absolutely no reason to ticket a legally parked car. Especially in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the city where many people don't speak much or any English, so formally contesting the ticket through the dept of revenue would be unduly difficult. And he laughed at me but I stood there and glared at him until he got back in his car and drove away, and then I kept standing there to make sure he didn't come right back. Because fuck that guy.
So there, that is one very small example. It yielded positive change for one person who didn't have to swim through the mires of bureaucracy or face a ~$75 parking ticket just because one cop felt like it. I could give fuck all if it yielded positive change for the cop because it's not my job to go around making assholes feel important.
And for crissakes, can we please stop using the phrase "mouth off"? It's so patronizing, like something a parent would say to a child. It's like telling a woman she's being uppity or hysterical.
posted by phunniemee at 10:45 AM on June 8, 2015 [65 favorites]
Just saw maxsparber's comment re: mouthing off. Jinx.
posted by phunniemee at 10:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 10:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you can't manage a group of children without behaving like a lunatic armchair warrior you not only shouldn't be a police officer but you probably should have no customer-facing job anywhere.
posted by winna at 10:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by winna at 10:47 AM on June 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
with "mouthing off" i think we also have to keep in mind how black girls specifically are targeted with this dismissal - in my opinion it feeds into them being suspended from school at alarming numbers.
(edited to change link to the aapf.org page)
posted by nadawi at 10:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
(edited to change link to the aapf.org page)
posted by nadawi at 10:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
I would love evidence where one human mouthed off to another yielded positive change for both persons involved.
I have gone up to cops abusing their authority and beating protesters, identified myself as a veteran, asked for their badge number and told them quite vociferously that my friends did not die for me to come home to violations of the Constitution here.
They generally stopped beating the protester and paused to argue with me about the Constitution and service.
A++ would do again.
posted by corb at 10:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
I have gone up to cops abusing their authority and beating protesters, identified myself as a veteran, asked for their badge number and told them quite vociferously that my friends did not die for me to come home to violations of the Constitution here.
They generally stopped beating the protester and paused to argue with me about the Constitution and service.
A++ would do again.
posted by corb at 10:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
I would love evidence where one human mouthed off to another yielded positive change for both persons involved.
Boy, it's a really good thing that the likes of Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Malcom X, Martin Luther King Jr., Harvey Milk, Gloria Steinem, Susan B. Anthony, Margaret Sanger, Lech Walesa, Malala Yousafzai, Larry Kramer, Thomas Paine, and Thomas Jefferson didn't think that way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:50 AM on June 8, 2015 [44 favorites]
Boy, it's a really good thing that the likes of Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Malcom X, Martin Luther King Jr., Harvey Milk, Gloria Steinem, Susan B. Anthony, Margaret Sanger, Lech Walesa, Malala Yousafzai, Larry Kramer, Thomas Paine, and Thomas Jefferson didn't think that way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:50 AM on June 8, 2015 [44 favorites]
This is victim blaming.
Yes, it is. But our fictional mouth-offer is still dead. Their life has ended. I'm not saying it's right, but this is what is going to happen the way things currently are.
If the past few months have shown us anything, mouthing off to a cop can get you dead, not mouthing off can get you dead, going where they tell you can get you dead, no going where they tell you can get you dead.
And, look: People who have been totally compliant also get assaulted and shot by police. It's not like that's a guarantee to keep you safe, especially if you are young and non-white.
I am not saying that being respectful to an officer is a guarantee that you're going to walk away alive. But the way I see it, if they're holding a gun and your options are "be respectful" and "tell them to fuck off" the chances of you coming out of it alive are higher on the respectful end.
I am trying to point out that the idea that you are claiming that no officer should be awarded respect until they have earned it.. and one way in which to earn it is to endure being mouth-offed at.. is incredibly shortsighted and generalizing.
I agree that you shouldn't be victim of police brutality for mouthing off at an officer.. that words do not wound enough to warrant bodily harm. It's still going to happen even though it shouldn't.
posted by royalsong at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2015
Yes, it is. But our fictional mouth-offer is still dead. Their life has ended. I'm not saying it's right, but this is what is going to happen the way things currently are.
If the past few months have shown us anything, mouthing off to a cop can get you dead, not mouthing off can get you dead, going where they tell you can get you dead, no going where they tell you can get you dead.
And, look: People who have been totally compliant also get assaulted and shot by police. It's not like that's a guarantee to keep you safe, especially if you are young and non-white.
I am not saying that being respectful to an officer is a guarantee that you're going to walk away alive. But the way I see it, if they're holding a gun and your options are "be respectful" and "tell them to fuck off" the chances of you coming out of it alive are higher on the respectful end.
I am trying to point out that the idea that you are claiming that no officer should be awarded respect until they have earned it.. and one way in which to earn it is to endure being mouth-offed at.. is incredibly shortsighted and generalizing.
I agree that you shouldn't be victim of police brutality for mouthing off at an officer.. that words do not wound enough to warrant bodily harm. It's still going to happen even though it shouldn't.
posted by royalsong at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2015
I am thinking the real issue is institutionalized racism in this part of Texas.
This aint a Texas problem, this is a national problem.
A motel manager pouring muratic acid in a pool to drive out the black people swimming in it, Florida, 1964.
FYI, muratic acid is just another pool chemical. They are pretty much all dangerous at concentrated levels. This motel manager is still being a giant dick, but its just another pool chemical.
And I know facebook is where you really learn about the people you supposedly know but, ugh, really saying its this kids parents fault for not teaching them better? I didn't see a bunch of especially bad behaving teenagers. I saw a group of teenagers acting like every other teenager in the world, except for the part where they were attacked by some crazy cop.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
This aint a Texas problem, this is a national problem.
A motel manager pouring muratic acid in a pool to drive out the black people swimming in it, Florida, 1964.
FYI, muratic acid is just another pool chemical. They are pretty much all dangerous at concentrated levels. This motel manager is still being a giant dick, but its just another pool chemical.
And I know facebook is where you really learn about the people you supposedly know but, ugh, really saying its this kids parents fault for not teaching them better? I didn't see a bunch of especially bad behaving teenagers. I saw a group of teenagers acting like every other teenager in the world, except for the part where they were attacked by some crazy cop.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh jeez, sorry, I thought I'd linked and lost the edit window AND learnt that time stamps are local.
Thanks ArtW
posted by infini at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thanks ArtW
posted by infini at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
But the way I see it, if they're holding a gun and your options are "be respectful" and "tell them to fuck off" the chances of you coming out of it alive are higher on the respectful end.
There is literally no evidence of this.
posted by maxsparber at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
There is literally no evidence of this.
posted by maxsparber at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
Mind you, they also generally included some horrific shit like 'You don't know these guys, they're [insert epithet here], they don't deserve you defending them'. But they still generally stopped what they were doing.
For those of you who are not veterans and can't pull the 'face down in the sand' shit, I highly recommend calmly asking for badge numbers.
posted by corb at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2015
For those of you who are not veterans and can't pull the 'face down in the sand' shit, I highly recommend calmly asking for badge numbers.
posted by corb at 10:52 AM on June 8, 2015
Also, I don't recall anybody in the video telling the cops to "fuck off." Where did that happen?
posted by maxsparber at 10:53 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 10:53 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It didn't, we're in the tedious phase where we make up hypotheticals to defend awfulness.
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on June 8, 2015 [46 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on June 8, 2015 [46 favorites]
If I get harassed by a catcaller and I respond with aggression, the burden of positive change is not on me.
If my partner is biking in a legally sanctioned lane when some driver calls him a queer slur, and my partner tells him to fuck off, the burden of positive change is not on my partner.
If my best friend gets harried for her credentials for the umpteenth time because white people seem to never believe that she's their professional superior, and she snarks back, the burden of positive change is not on my best friend.
If a group of Black children are playing at a pool, white people get uncomfortable AND assault one of them while simultaneously calling the cops - who then go on to attack the children - well, you know how this ends, but:
The burden of positive change is not on those children.
The burden lies solely with the aggressors. Stop asking us to be bottomless wells for other people's hatred.
posted by Ashen at 10:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [83 favorites]
If my partner is biking in a legally sanctioned lane when some driver calls him a queer slur, and my partner tells him to fuck off, the burden of positive change is not on my partner.
If my best friend gets harried for her credentials for the umpteenth time because white people seem to never believe that she's their professional superior, and she snarks back, the burden of positive change is not on my best friend.
If a group of Black children are playing at a pool, white people get uncomfortable AND assault one of them while simultaneously calling the cops - who then go on to attack the children - well, you know how this ends, but:
The burden of positive change is not on those children.
The burden lies solely with the aggressors. Stop asking us to be bottomless wells for other people's hatred.
posted by Ashen at 10:59 AM on June 8, 2015 [83 favorites]
It didn't, we're in the tedious phase where we make up hypotheticals to defend awfulness.
but what if they were actually space marines corrupted by Tzeench ArtW you'd feel pretty silly then and how do you know they weren't EH!
Behold my stellar reasoning!
*crowds roars applause*
posted by winna at 11:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
but what if they were actually space marines corrupted by Tzeench ArtW you'd feel pretty silly then and how do you know they weren't EH!
Behold my stellar reasoning!
*crowds roars applause*
posted by winna at 11:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
German Lopez: The McKinney, Texas, pool party shows racial segregation is still alive in America
As the Pew Research Center found in 2012, residential segregation by income has increased during the past three decades in 27 of the US's 30 largest major metropolitan areas. Among the 10 largest metro areas, Pew found two in Texas — Houston and Dallas, which includes McKinney — had the worst levels of economic segregation.posted by zombieflanders at 11:00 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Since minority Americans are more likely to be poor, this type of segregation has an unequal racial impact, splitting white people and minorities by neighborhood. Other factors, such as housing policies, zoning laws, and historical settlement, can further compound these racial disparities.
The map above — which shows white residents as blue dots, Hispanic residents as orange dots, and black residents as green dots — visualizes a clear racial divide. Northern Dallas is almost wholly white, while southern Dallas is nearly entirely black and Hispanic. There's very little overlap from neighborhood to neighborhood.
McKinney has dealt with issues surrounding racial segregation in the past, as well. In 2009, the city and its housing authority were sued by a local group over housing discrimination after local officials rejected a proposal to build more affordable and low-income housing to help racially desegregate the area, the International Business Times's Aaron Morrison reported. Authorities agreed to a settlement that enabled the construction of more low-income housing units, but racial segregation remains a sticky issue in the region.
The racial divide helps explain why adults in a largely white neighborhood in McKinney, which is 64.5 percent white and 10.5 percent black, reacted so harshly to a group of black teens trying to have fun at a party in a community pool: segregation has made it so many in the wealthy community view black people as outsiders.
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3769680/Dallas%20segregation%20map.png){kind=link}
I have a few things to say to this: Dangerous, profession, yes, and that's certainly worth noting, but hardly the most dangerous profession
Even then, you need to separate out the risk of being actually attacked from the risks of just spending so much time in cars. If you run the numbers, cops faced a job-related-homicide risk of about 9 per 100,000 last year. I can't easily locate the numbers for last year, but in 2008 men in general faced a homicide risk of 11 per 100,000.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Even then, you need to separate out the risk of being actually attacked from the risks of just spending so much time in cars. If you run the numbers, cops faced a job-related-homicide risk of about 9 per 100,000 last year. I can't easily locate the numbers for last year, but in 2008 men in general faced a homicide risk of 11 per 100,000.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
The Making of the Warrior Cop or Do police really need rocket launchers?
posted by infini at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by infini at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015
Wait a minute, was a circular linkshare btw of twitter? I shared Nadawi's comment btw
posted by infini at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by infini at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015
Also, in regards to the housing segregation, it's important to note that SCOTUS is currently deciding a case that will, in practice, spit in the face of the Fair Housing Act in much the same way they did to the Voting Rights Act. And to what I'm sure is everybody's shock and surprise, the case originated in Dallas.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:06 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:06 AM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
How many times can GRAR be thrown at documented evidence before people stop defending it or strawmanning it or derailing it?
posted by infini at 11:06 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by infini at 11:06 AM on June 8, 2015
By the way, there is a video out there of a black man who had been stopped by a cop and told to get his wallet. He complies, at which moment the cop shoots him multiple times (he survived). On realizing he has been shot, the man starts to confront the cop, and only then does the cop settle down and realize he had overreacted.
So what's going to keep you from getting shot by a cop again?
posted by maxsparber at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
So what's going to keep you from getting shot by a cop again?
posted by maxsparber at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
To make things clear, here is the full comment I am responding to:
rtha is implying (in my interpretation of their words) that you should be allowed to be disrespectful, including using language in a hostile manner, to police and never be arrested or assaulted. I agree. That's how it should be. That's not how it is, and doing so is only going to lead to this kind of response from officers - or worse.
Corb and phunniemee, while I applaud you for your actions.. neither of you were being targeted for potential crimes in progress in your situations. Also you were not belligerent, but I assume confident and composed. I appreciate the point that you're trying to make (that you should speak up if police are doing wrong), but not in the kind of situation in which I was looking for evidence.
posted by royalsong at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2015
Children ought to be able to "mouth off" to pretty much anyone without risking being killed under color of law; the same goes for us who are not children. Police culture is toxic, and it is what needs to change, not us. They want respect? They need to start earning it, and not by beating it out of people.I took rtha's quoted words to mean being belligerent, aggressive or otherwise not complying with the demands of a police officer in a loud disrespectful manner. My use of fuck off is an example one such phrase that would fall into that category. I was not quoting of anyone in the video or the real-life situation.
rtha is implying (in my interpretation of their words) that you should be allowed to be disrespectful, including using language in a hostile manner, to police and never be arrested or assaulted. I agree. That's how it should be. That's not how it is, and doing so is only going to lead to this kind of response from officers - or worse.
Corb and phunniemee, while I applaud you for your actions.. neither of you were being targeted for potential crimes in progress in your situations. Also you were not belligerent, but I assume confident and composed. I appreciate the point that you're trying to make (that you should speak up if police are doing wrong), but not in the kind of situation in which I was looking for evidence.
posted by royalsong at 11:08 AM on June 8, 2015
> Who here said this or anything close to this?
Probably me? What I thought was obvious (but is obviously not) is that it's poisonous that cops think and act like the kind of respect they deserve can and should only be gained at the barrel of a gun, and me being meek and polite is not going to change that.
There are other ways to get respect. If you treat the people you are supposed to be protecting and serving as if they are the enemy and you are the occupying force, well... That's respect, of a kind, I guess. We can see how well it's working.
posted by rtha at 11:09 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Probably me? What I thought was obvious (but is obviously not) is that it's poisonous that cops think and act like the kind of respect they deserve can and should only be gained at the barrel of a gun, and me being meek and polite is not going to change that.
There are other ways to get respect. If you treat the people you are supposed to be protecting and serving as if they are the enemy and you are the occupying force, well... That's respect, of a kind, I guess. We can see how well it's working.
posted by rtha at 11:09 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
What left me sick to my stomach about the video was that some of these kids are so clearly aware that they have no good options. Those young men sitting on the ground, they sounded terrified and confused, and they were doing as they were told, only to get cursed at by the police. Those kids knew, no matter what they did, it was the wrong thing to do. Sit there quietly, run, say something, say nothing, cooperate, don't cooperate--it doesn't fucking matter. That's the lesson these children are learning, if they haven't learned it already. It does not matter what they do, any action or inaction is an excuse for police brutality. The simple fact that they exist is enough.
And fuck, but I was so, so appalled by the way that young woman was treated. The twitter comments nadawi linked were right, that scene was historical. I don't know how anyone could look at that young black woman being manhandled that way for no real reason, and not feel the weight of centuries worth of history pressing down on the scene, like this has all happened before and this will all happen again, and it's disgusting. She's an unarmed fourteen year old child, who probably weighs like half of what that cop does, and he's bodily pressing her down into the dirt. What's the excuse for that? Why the fuck doesn't he get off her?
posted by yasaman at 11:09 AM on June 8, 2015 [44 favorites]
And fuck, but I was so, so appalled by the way that young woman was treated. The twitter comments nadawi linked were right, that scene was historical. I don't know how anyone could look at that young black woman being manhandled that way for no real reason, and not feel the weight of centuries worth of history pressing down on the scene, like this has all happened before and this will all happen again, and it's disgusting. She's an unarmed fourteen year old child, who probably weighs like half of what that cop does, and he's bodily pressing her down into the dirt. What's the excuse for that? Why the fuck doesn't he get off her?
posted by yasaman at 11:09 AM on June 8, 2015 [44 favorites]
Hey, I just found this post right now so I apologize if this has been mentioned already, but who is this man who just lumbers around the cop and the kids, shoves the girls friends aside while she's on the ground, and then puts her head in between his legs?! That's fucking disgusting!
posted by gucci mane at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
royalsong I think you're missing the point here a little. We KNOW that people of color who are belligerent to cops (or non-belligerent to cops, or just basically anywhere within shooting range of a cop) are likely to end up dead. That's a fact that we're all on board with here. You seem to be confusing our repeated statements of "this is monstrous and appalling" with us not knowing about reality. We know about the reality. We think it is monstrous and appalling. What do you hope to achieve by continuing to repeat "That's how it should be. That's not how it is"?
I mean seriously, this happens in every thread about police brutality, and I never know what the person is hoping for. A site-wide declaration of defeat and surrender?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I mean seriously, this happens in every thread about police brutality, and I never know what the person is hoping for. A site-wide declaration of defeat and surrender?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I can understand the general motivation behind "victim-blaming," but I think in this context (as well as many other contexts) it's inappropriate. That motivation has to do with (normative) reasonable expectations.
Yes, if you as an American decide to vacation off to Iraq or Syria and end up murdered by insurgents... then that's largely on you. There is a normatively reasonable expectation that if one travels to a war zone, what happens to you is on you.
Along sort of similar lines, sure, there's maybe an understanding that if everyone would just comply with an officer fully then there'd be no abuse. But I think the situation here is different than the above. There is no normatively reasonable expectation that mouthing off against an officer should result in this abuse.
posted by Dalby at 11:16 AM on June 8, 2015
Yes, if you as an American decide to vacation off to Iraq or Syria and end up murdered by insurgents... then that's largely on you. There is a normatively reasonable expectation that if one travels to a war zone, what happens to you is on you.
Along sort of similar lines, sure, there's maybe an understanding that if everyone would just comply with an officer fully then there'd be no abuse. But I think the situation here is different than the above. There is no normatively reasonable expectation that mouthing off against an officer should result in this abuse.
posted by Dalby at 11:16 AM on June 8, 2015
Yes, if you as an American decide to vacation off to Iraq or Syria and end up murdered by insurgents... then that's largely on you. There is a normatively reasonable expectation that if one travels to a war zone, what happens to you is on you.
Surely you understand that this is a terrible comparison?
posted by maxsparber at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Surely you understand that this is a terrible comparison?
posted by maxsparber at 11:18 AM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yes, if you as an American decide to vacation off to Iraq or Syria and end up murdered by insurgents... then that's largely on you. There is a normatively reasonable expectation that if one travels to a war zone, what happens to you is on you.
Surely you understand that this is a terrible comparison?
That is why the poster said it was an inappropriate one, I think? and specifically, "I think the situation here is different than the above."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2015
Surely you understand that this is a terrible comparison?
That is why the poster said it was an inappropriate one, I think? and specifically, "I think the situation here is different than the above."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2015
That's not how it is, and doing so is only going to lead to this kind of response from officers - or worse.
Police officers will kill you if you lie on the ground.
Police officers will kill you if you run away.
Police officers will kill you for following commands.
There is no sequence of actions which will guarantee not being murdered when interacting with a police officer. royalsong, your insistence that there is is not supported and not supportable.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2015 [58 favorites]
Police officers will kill you if you lie on the ground.
Police officers will kill you if you run away.
Police officers will kill you for following commands.
There is no sequence of actions which will guarantee not being murdered when interacting with a police officer. royalsong, your insistence that there is is not supported and not supportable.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:20 AM on June 8, 2015 [58 favorites]
Video of the fight that led to the police being called. It's Breitbart so some of you may want to just scroll about halfway down and get right to the video.
posted by MikeMc at 11:21 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by MikeMc at 11:21 AM on June 8, 2015
you were not belligerent, but I assume confident and composed
I appreciate your good reading of my character and composure! Sadly, actually, in at least one or two of the instances I saw cops shove protesters to the ground, I was immediately infuriated and started advancing on the cop and screamed at him in full fury. I think the only reason I didn't get shot is because I was dressed relatively professionally, my criticism was wrapped in the flag, which cops have a remarkably hard time dealing with, and I had veteran privilege.
But that in itself is another indicator of kind of how fucked up these things can be. Cops, very much like soldiers, tend to sort the world into 'good people' and 'bad people', 'civilian' and 'enemy'. In my cases, it was usually 'filthy hippies' and 'misguided patriots' in their minds, rather than a racial sort, but the thing is - even these cops that were engaging in violence moments before I started in on them were usually able to be like 'Whoa whoa, hey, calm down, it's not like you think!' as soon as they were dealing with someone who they, in their heart of hearts, didn't want to hurt.
And I think that has a lot of implications for this sort of situation, especially the intersection between race and class.
posted by corb at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I appreciate your good reading of my character and composure! Sadly, actually, in at least one or two of the instances I saw cops shove protesters to the ground, I was immediately infuriated and started advancing on the cop and screamed at him in full fury. I think the only reason I didn't get shot is because I was dressed relatively professionally, my criticism was wrapped in the flag, which cops have a remarkably hard time dealing with, and I had veteran privilege.
But that in itself is another indicator of kind of how fucked up these things can be. Cops, very much like soldiers, tend to sort the world into 'good people' and 'bad people', 'civilian' and 'enemy'. In my cases, it was usually 'filthy hippies' and 'misguided patriots' in their minds, rather than a racial sort, but the thing is - even these cops that were engaging in violence moments before I started in on them were usually able to be like 'Whoa whoa, hey, calm down, it's not like you think!' as soon as they were dealing with someone who they, in their heart of hearts, didn't want to hurt.
And I think that has a lot of implications for this sort of situation, especially the intersection between race and class.
posted by corb at 11:23 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's Breitbart so some of you may want to just scroll about halfway down and get right to the video.
Care to summarize for those of us who don't want to give Breitbart the traffic?
posted by TwoStride at 11:26 AM on June 8, 2015
Care to summarize for those of us who don't want to give Breitbart the traffic?
posted by TwoStride at 11:26 AM on June 8, 2015
Video of the fight that led to the police being called. It's Breitbart so some of you may want to just scroll about halfway down and get right to the video.
Note that the FOX segment led with this and as far as I can tell it's the only video they repeated.
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2015
Note that the FOX segment led with this and as far as I can tell it's the only video they repeated.
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on June 8, 2015
Care to summarize for those of us who don't want to give Breitbart the traffic?
It's a 24 second clip from which you can tell nothing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's a 24 second clip from which you can tell nothing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:28 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
> I agree. That's how it should be. That's not how it is, and doing so is only going to lead to this kind of response from officers - or worse.
This is a particular kind of talking-past-one-another thing that also happens when we talk about rape culture and victim-blaming. There are those who say, “of course I think it’s good advice for women not to get drunk in strange places if they don’t want to get raped.” You’d say that sort of thing if you believed in the just-world fallacy and wanted to find a reason why rape victims got raped in the first place — but you’d also say that sort of thing if you realized we live in an unjust world and want to minimize the number of people who got raped. And for those in the latter camp I understand how this makes sense on the surface.
Lots of people are raising the good point that you can’t be sure of the cause and effect — that, just as you can’t be sure if your rapist will be a stranger or an acquaintance, you also can’t be sure that any behavior on your part is likely to decrease your chances of getting shot. I agree with that.
But I also want to point out that even if the correlation is sound, even if politeness guaranteed that you wouldn’t get shot by a cop, it wouldn’t be useful advice. The teens in this situation were verbally sparring with the cops because they were understandably frustrated. It takes such superhuman effort to keep your wits about you in these situations that MLK and his organization had to train people rigorously to behave that way, and some of them still lost their tempers when they were put into a situation they'd been expecting.
If the way to not get shot is to behave like a saint, the way that 99% of people on earth would not behave, then that alone should demonstrate how fucked the situation is.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is a particular kind of talking-past-one-another thing that also happens when we talk about rape culture and victim-blaming. There are those who say, “of course I think it’s good advice for women not to get drunk in strange places if they don’t want to get raped.” You’d say that sort of thing if you believed in the just-world fallacy and wanted to find a reason why rape victims got raped in the first place — but you’d also say that sort of thing if you realized we live in an unjust world and want to minimize the number of people who got raped. And for those in the latter camp I understand how this makes sense on the surface.
Lots of people are raising the good point that you can’t be sure of the cause and effect — that, just as you can’t be sure if your rapist will be a stranger or an acquaintance, you also can’t be sure that any behavior on your part is likely to decrease your chances of getting shot. I agree with that.
But I also want to point out that even if the correlation is sound, even if politeness guaranteed that you wouldn’t get shot by a cop, it wouldn’t be useful advice. The teens in this situation were verbally sparring with the cops because they were understandably frustrated. It takes such superhuman effort to keep your wits about you in these situations that MLK and his organization had to train people rigorously to behave that way, and some of them still lost their tempers when they were put into a situation they'd been expecting.
If the way to not get shot is to behave like a saint, the way that 99% of people on earth would not behave, then that alone should demonstrate how fucked the situation is.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Care to summarize for those of us who don't want to give Breitbart the traffic?
It's a 24 second clip from which you can tell nothing.
It may be useful if you want to paint the victims as the violent ones and not the police, but that's about it. AFAIK nobody from this video was involved on the later confrontation, so some contortions may be required for that.
posted by Artw at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2015
It's a 24 second clip from which you can tell nothing.
It may be useful if you want to paint the victims as the violent ones and not the police, but that's about it. AFAIK nobody from this video was involved on the later confrontation, so some contortions may be required for that.
posted by Artw at 11:30 AM on June 8, 2015
"Belligerence" is something that is defined by those in power, and framed by the person's age, skin color, gender, and apparent class. We have seen, repeatedly, that there is apparently no level of lack-of-belligerence that some people can employ, because police will define "breathing" as a belligerent action.
posted by rtha at 11:31 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by rtha at 11:31 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also let's all just agree never to link to Breitbart. Like Stormfront, there is never a good reason for it.
posted by Artw at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Also let's all just agree never to link to Breitbart. Like Stormfront, there is never a good reason for it.
I'm at work and popping in and out so I don't really have time to do too much link hunting (hence the warning). It's 20 seconds or so of hair pulling and sorta "slow dancing".
posted by MikeMc at 11:37 AM on June 8, 2015
I'm at work and popping in and out so I don't really have time to do too much link hunting (hence the warning). It's 20 seconds or so of hair pulling and sorta "slow dancing".
posted by MikeMc at 11:37 AM on June 8, 2015
No! not at all. My point is that if you want things to change, you need to go about it in the right manner. I even said so in my original comment. If you want "should be" to be what actually "is".
Simply saying what should be is unproductive. Everyone nods their heads and agrees, "yes it's horrible and shouldn't have happened!" pats the person on the back and goes back to their every day lives feeling vindicated and on the right team. It breeds hate, negativity, and misunderstanding. rtha just used the phrase " it's poisonous that cops think and act" - shows their own negativity and misunderstanding and generates more. Just look at how many people have responded in a hostile manner to me since it appears, to them, that I am defending the actions of this officer - even though I have never said or implied that. (and specifically said the opposite) My point here is that neither form of discrimination is going to get us anywhere.
posted by royalsong at 11:39 AM on June 8, 2015
Simply saying what should be is unproductive. Everyone nods their heads and agrees, "yes it's horrible and shouldn't have happened!" pats the person on the back and goes back to their every day lives feeling vindicated and on the right team. It breeds hate, negativity, and misunderstanding. rtha just used the phrase " it's poisonous that cops think and act" - shows their own negativity and misunderstanding and generates more. Just look at how many people have responded in a hostile manner to me since it appears, to them, that I am defending the actions of this officer - even though I have never said or implied that. (and specifically said the opposite) My point here is that neither form of discrimination is going to get us anywhere.
posted by royalsong at 11:39 AM on June 8, 2015
For those of you who are not veterans and can't pull the 'face down in the sand' shit, I highly recommend calmly asking for badge numbers.
Which, if you're black, could get you shot.
I think the only reason I didn't get shot is because I was dressed relatively professionally, my criticism was wrapped in the flag, which cops have a remarkably hard time dealing with, and I had veteran privilege.
Also, you're not black. Which makes something of a difference in these situations.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Which, if you're black, could get you shot.
I think the only reason I didn't get shot is because I was dressed relatively professionally, my criticism was wrapped in the flag, which cops have a remarkably hard time dealing with, and I had veteran privilege.
Also, you're not black. Which makes something of a difference in these situations.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
We understand the point you are trying to make, royalsong.
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
rtha just used the phrase " it's poisonous that cops think and act" - shows their own negativity and misunderstanding and generates more.
It's appropriate to feel negatively about unjust racist brutality. More than appropriate: it's necessary.
And how is a police culture that teaches the public they have no rights, not even to their lives, NOT a poisonous line of thought? It directly poisons our social contract by giving the citizenry absolutely no recourse, it is meant to make us cower in fear under our beds lest literally any action result in us being murdered by some out-of-control puffed up schoolyard bully with a gun.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:44 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's appropriate to feel negatively about unjust racist brutality. More than appropriate: it's necessary.
And how is a police culture that teaches the public they have no rights, not even to their lives, NOT a poisonous line of thought? It directly poisons our social contract by giving the citizenry absolutely no recourse, it is meant to make us cower in fear under our beds lest literally any action result in us being murdered by some out-of-control puffed up schoolyard bully with a gun.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:44 AM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is sort of off topic but in terms of getting better police force ...a lot of people here are joking about police and steroids, but I can tell you from extensive first hand experience over a period of five years with a particular NYC police precinct that this is definitely A Thing and Real Problem and maybe a very good place to start reform.
How do you think all those unlicensed black cabs in the outer boroughs escape constant hassle?
posted by digitalprimate at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
How do you think all those unlicensed black cabs in the outer boroughs escape constant hassle?
posted by digitalprimate at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
we could just not argue with yet another instance of victim blaming wrapped up in brave truthtellers just telling truths. there's no reason for us to screech this thread to a halt for that tired tactic.
posted by nadawi at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:46 AM on June 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
One question, regarding this picture why hasn't the Big White Guy (BWG) been arrested already? He's clearly assaulting the teen. Riding her like a horse even.
posted by ramix at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ramix at 11:48 AM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
The answer is in the name.
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
there are places on twitter offering monetary rewards for naming him and the original white lady aggressors
posted by nadawi at 11:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:51 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's also the Zimmerman factor - brutalize black people and cops will treat you like an honorary cop.
posted by Artw at 11:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, so glad nobody was killed here. And I still wind up with so much helpless rage and anxiety that I want to stay in bed and stare at the ceiling all day. I hate that this can happen, I hate that it does happen, I hate that anyone is trying to pretend like it's OK. A lot of it is systemic racism, age-old and not close to its half-life yet. And yet I wonder how much of it is rooted in toxic two-party politics, too: once upon a time the opposition wanted to help Those People and so They are the enemy now. I feel like entrenched tribalism is getting worse and worse, just down political lines instead of only the traditional ethnic ones.
posted by Andrhia at 11:55 AM on June 8, 2015
posted by Andrhia at 11:55 AM on June 8, 2015
Soooo apparently Casebolt's youtube account-- or anyway, a youtube account with the same username as Casebolt uses on Twitter and other social media accounts -- features a playlist called "police training" that appears to consist largely of videos of police officers using force on black and brown people. The clip referenced in this story was added to the playlist yesterday, presumably by Casebolt.
I have not the words.
posted by KathrynT at 12:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
I have not the words.
posted by KathrynT at 12:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
Jesus, that was horrible. I hadn't watched it until now, and it's ugly ugly.
posted by OmieWise at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
> The clip referenced in this story was added to the playlist yesterday, presumably by Casebolt.
Another possibility is that someone hacked into his account and added that video to his playlist in order to make subtle political commentary. A reach, I know, but it would make way more sense to me than the alternative.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2015
Another possibility is that someone hacked into his account and added that video to his playlist in order to make subtle political commentary. A reach, I know, but it would make way more sense to me than the alternative.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2015
Not to me. The whole playlist is private now. (Not deleted, interestingly! Just private.)
posted by KathrynT at 12:06 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by KathrynT at 12:06 PM on June 8, 2015
but it would make way more sense to me than the alternative.
The alternative is that as a white cop caught on camera brutalizing black people in america he feels that he's done nothing wrong and hundreds of years of history will back him up. It makes perfect sense.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:08 PM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
The alternative is that as a white cop caught on camera brutalizing black people in america he feels that he's done nothing wrong and hundreds of years of history will back him up. It makes perfect sense.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:08 PM on June 8, 2015 [20 favorites]
a lot of people here are joking about police and steroids, but I can tell you from extensive first hand experience over a period of five years with a particular NYC police precinct that this is definitely A Thing and Real Problem and maybe a very good place to start reform.
There is clearly something wrong with the guy, I would go with racism-induced panic attack personally but I wouldn't rule out drugs as well.
posted by Artw at 12:08 PM on June 8, 2015
There is clearly something wrong with the guy, I would go with racism-induced panic attack personally but I wouldn't rule out drugs as well.
posted by Artw at 12:08 PM on June 8, 2015
Not to me. The whole playlist is private now. (Not deleted, interestingly! Just private.)
Here's hoping for screenshots.
posted by Artw at 12:10 PM on June 8, 2015
Here's hoping for screenshots.
posted by Artw at 12:10 PM on June 8, 2015
Racist assholes don't need drugs or mental illnesses to prompt their racist asshole behavior, and we don't need to use them as excuses for why these people are garbage pieces of human filth.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 12:11 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Screenshots are available at phoenixphoenix's link above.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:12 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:12 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here's hoping for screenshots.
In the comments of the gawker link!
posted by KathrynT at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2015
In the comments of the gawker link!
posted by KathrynT at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2015
Here's hoping for screenshots.
There are some screenshots of the Youtube playlist in this slideshow from a story at Heavy.com.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2015
There are some screenshots of the Youtube playlist in this slideshow from a story at Heavy.com.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2015
Double jinx!
posted by zombieflanders at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by zombieflanders at 12:13 PM on June 8, 2015
I would accept neither steroid abuse or raging racism as a mitigating factor, but he's clearly going into the situation pumped to the gills on adrenaline for some reason.
posted by Artw at 12:21 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by Artw at 12:21 PM on June 8, 2015
I wouldn't accept his incompetence as a racist as a reason for looking away from the racist institutions that support him, either.
posted by Artw at 12:22 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:22 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's probably replaying his barrel roll over and over to himself. He'll be Uncle Rico-ing that moment in 20 years.
posted by asockpuppet at 12:28 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by asockpuppet at 12:28 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Screenshot and recreation of his youtube playlist.
I guess this title shouldn't be a surprise:
Chief tells the TRUTH that Black People dont want to hear.
posted by The Gooch at 12:28 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess this title shouldn't be a surprise:
Chief tells the TRUTH that Black People dont want to hear.
posted by The Gooch at 12:28 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
And how is a police culture that teaches the public they have no rights, not even to their lives, NOT a poisonous line of thought?
It is. I'm not saying it isn't. Problem is still there. Still not fixed.. only now you have more people on the "fuck the police" bandwagon.
To everyone pointing out that being respectful to police officers still causes injury and death, I know. I never said it didn't. I do not have access to the statistics of the number of times an arrest happens without injury or death because the citizen was respectful. I do not know if even such a thing is tracked. If your point is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.. well then I don't know what to tell you. You're right, you are damned both ways. It's a hell of a lot more complicated then that, though. It's not the only factor that causes situations like this to happen.
I guess what I'm saying is that if I am ever in the position where a police officer is running around and shouting at me to go away or sit down, I'm going to do what he says. I value my life more then trying to "fight the man" by proclaiming to that officer that his actions are illegal or unfair. I would rather be a cog in the wheel then end up dead. I have people who love me, depend on me, and would be utterly devastated if I died, they're my reason. I would hope that would be everyone's reason, if valuing their own life is not enough of one.
Please stop brandishing your victim-blaming sword at me. I have never once said any of the young people in this video are to blame for that officer's actions, or that they deserved what happened to them in any way. I never even meant to imply such a thing.
It incredibly frustrating when you are trying to advocate something so that others do not become victim-blamed makes it seem like you are victim-blaming. It's a vicious unproductive circle that In the end, just shuts down conversation.
posted by royalsong at 12:30 PM on June 8, 2015
It is. I'm not saying it isn't. Problem is still there. Still not fixed.. only now you have more people on the "fuck the police" bandwagon.
To everyone pointing out that being respectful to police officers still causes injury and death, I know. I never said it didn't. I do not have access to the statistics of the number of times an arrest happens without injury or death because the citizen was respectful. I do not know if even such a thing is tracked. If your point is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.. well then I don't know what to tell you. You're right, you are damned both ways. It's a hell of a lot more complicated then that, though. It's not the only factor that causes situations like this to happen.
I guess what I'm saying is that if I am ever in the position where a police officer is running around and shouting at me to go away or sit down, I'm going to do what he says. I value my life more then trying to "fight the man" by proclaiming to that officer that his actions are illegal or unfair. I would rather be a cog in the wheel then end up dead. I have people who love me, depend on me, and would be utterly devastated if I died, they're my reason. I would hope that would be everyone's reason, if valuing their own life is not enough of one.
Please stop brandishing your victim-blaming sword at me. I have never once said any of the young people in this video are to blame for that officer's actions, or that they deserved what happened to them in any way. I never even meant to imply such a thing.
It incredibly frustrating when you are trying to advocate something so that others do not become victim-blamed makes it seem like you are victim-blaming. It's a vicious unproductive circle that In the end, just shuts down conversation.
posted by royalsong at 12:30 PM on June 8, 2015
I mean really I think the reason he's so creepily pumped is because he likes hurting black people and having power over them. 100 years ago, or hell even 50 years ago, this wouldn't even be in question. It's not just that public attitudes towards this kind of behavior has changed, it's that people who believe this way have become somewhat more circumspect about these beliefs. except when commenting on online newspaper articles using their real searchable names, for some bizarre reason.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:30 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 12:30 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Sorry if this has already been mentioned. In 2008, a black man sued Casebolt and two other McKinney officers in federal civil court for violating his civil rights. Albert Earl Brown, Jr. alleged Casebolt "reached in my private area" and "also pulled my pants down below my ankles" to search him for drugs. Casebolt and the other officers allegedly shined a flashlight in Brown's anus after slamming his face repeatedly into the hood of the car. Brown alleged that Casebolt made disparaging remarks about "white girls" hanging out with a "dope dealer." Brown's complaint was dismissed by a judge in 2009.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:31 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:31 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
It is. I'm not saying it isn't. Problem is still there. Still not fixed.. only now you have more people on the "fuck the police" bandwagon.
And how do you know that increasing the number of people on that bandwagon isn't exactly what we need to fix the problem?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:33 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
And how do you know that increasing the number of people on that bandwagon isn't exactly what we need to fix the problem?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:33 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Still not fixed.. only now you have more people on the "fuck the police" bandwagon.
... and thus racist police violence becomes less normalized, less acceptable in mainstream society, less tacitly supported by the community. What is so difficult to understand about this?
posted by dialetheia at 12:33 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
... and thus racist police violence becomes less normalized, less acceptable in mainstream society, less tacitly supported by the community. What is so difficult to understand about this?
posted by dialetheia at 12:33 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think you're missing a complete understanding of what victim blaming is
posted by angrycat at 12:33 PM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 12:33 PM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
> I guess what I'm saying is that if I am ever in the position where a police officer is running around and shouting at me to go away or sit down, I'm going to do what he says. I value my life more then trying to "fight the man" by proclaiming to that officer that his actions are illegal or unfair. I would rather be a cog in the wheel then end up dead. I have people who love me, depend on me, and would be utterly devastated if I died, they're my reason. I would hope that would be everyone's reason, if valuing their own life is not enough of one.
And my point (can't speak for anyone else) is this: you think that this is what you'll do. And you may or may not be right, but until you've been in that situation you simply don't know. You are imagining a split-second calculus that strikes me as out of touch with how people act in stressful situations. Put another way: do you think that Eric Garner lost his patience with police because he decided he'd rather be dead than end up as a cog in the wheel?
And perhaps you truly are talking about your own behavior and no one else's, but it comes off as you giving advice to others. (If that's not correct, then I'm not the only one to have misconstrued you.) That sort of advice, coming from someone who hasn't been in this situation, and directed at people who have, is at best completely meaningless, and at worst willfully blind to the situation.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:38 PM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
And my point (can't speak for anyone else) is this: you think that this is what you'll do. And you may or may not be right, but until you've been in that situation you simply don't know. You are imagining a split-second calculus that strikes me as out of touch with how people act in stressful situations. Put another way: do you think that Eric Garner lost his patience with police because he decided he'd rather be dead than end up as a cog in the wheel?
And perhaps you truly are talking about your own behavior and no one else's, but it comes off as you giving advice to others. (If that's not correct, then I'm not the only one to have misconstrued you.) That sort of advice, coming from someone who hasn't been in this situation, and directed at people who have, is at best completely meaningless, and at worst willfully blind to the situation.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:38 PM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
I do not have access to the statistics of the number of times an arrest happens without injury or death because the citizen was respectful. I do not know if even such a thing is tracked. If your point is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.. well then I don't know what to tell you. You're right, you are damned both ways. It's a hell of a lot more complicated then that, though. It's not the only factor that causes situations like this to happen.
In the many discussions we've had on the subject of white police and black suspects, we've touched on the implicit and explicit biases of police officers, the combination of dehumanization and "superhumanization" (i.e., the myth of the deranged and unstoppable black boogeyman) influencing police behavior, the lingering effects of Jim Crow/redlining/etc and the current effects of discriminatory laws, and a number of related subjects. We've also covered the idea that PoC, and black people in particular, often need to meet impossibly high standards of behavior and decorum just to go through their daily lives. If you're going to delve deep into a conversation like this, it would help to brush up on these kinds of things before making blanket statements and knee-jerk psych evaluations.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
In the many discussions we've had on the subject of white police and black suspects, we've touched on the implicit and explicit biases of police officers, the combination of dehumanization and "superhumanization" (i.e., the myth of the deranged and unstoppable black boogeyman) influencing police behavior, the lingering effects of Jim Crow/redlining/etc and the current effects of discriminatory laws, and a number of related subjects. We've also covered the idea that PoC, and black people in particular, often need to meet impossibly high standards of behavior and decorum just to go through their daily lives. If you're going to delve deep into a conversation like this, it would help to brush up on these kinds of things before making blanket statements and knee-jerk psych evaluations.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Chief tells the TRUTH that Black People dont want to hear.
For those curious, this is the chief featured on This American Life called "Cops See It Differently" -- Ed Flynn. Interesting, the subject he "rants" about is the fact that African-Americans are a frequent victim of violence, and the cause he points to is large amounts of firearms.
He generally supports police, but he also addresses the fact that some police misbehave -- and he had to, as part of his mission was to repair relationships between police and the local community, which has had mixed success. And the reason these relationships had to be repaired, as the TAL episode points out, is because of repeated incidents of utterly galling violence against minorities by police, including one in which Frank Jude, a performer at a bachelorette party, was assaulted and tortured by off-duty police in attendance, and then was tortured by police who responded to a call about the original torture.
Based on comments on the video, I'm going to guess a lot of people missed the larger story.
posted by maxsparber at 12:47 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
For those curious, this is the chief featured on This American Life called "Cops See It Differently" -- Ed Flynn. Interesting, the subject he "rants" about is the fact that African-Americans are a frequent victim of violence, and the cause he points to is large amounts of firearms.
He generally supports police, but he also addresses the fact that some police misbehave -- and he had to, as part of his mission was to repair relationships between police and the local community, which has had mixed success. And the reason these relationships had to be repaired, as the TAL episode points out, is because of repeated incidents of utterly galling violence against minorities by police, including one in which Frank Jude, a performer at a bachelorette party, was assaulted and tortured by off-duty police in attendance, and then was tortured by police who responded to a call about the original torture.
Based on comments on the video, I'm going to guess a lot of people missed the larger story.
posted by maxsparber at 12:47 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am advocating the following:
0. Always research and vote for the people who's views and actions align with yours.
1. For the immediate future, if you find yourself in a situation where a police officer is shouting at you.. do your best to remain calm. Respect the police officer, even if he hasn't shown you that he has earned it.
2. If the idea of #1 enrages you.. start researching how to protest peacefully.
3. If protesting peacefully is not your cup of tea, lobby for changes in the requirements to become a police officer. Lobby for the changes in the equipment they have access to. Lobby for changes in the training they undergo. Lobby for evaluations to be conducted frequently.
4. If neither protesting nor lobbying is for you, find ways to engage and educate police officers or support initiatives that do this financially or with your votes.
posted by royalsong at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2015
0. Always research and vote for the people who's views and actions align with yours.
1. For the immediate future, if you find yourself in a situation where a police officer is shouting at you.. do your best to remain calm. Respect the police officer, even if he hasn't shown you that he has earned it.
2. If the idea of #1 enrages you.. start researching how to protest peacefully.
3. If protesting peacefully is not your cup of tea, lobby for changes in the requirements to become a police officer. Lobby for the changes in the equipment they have access to. Lobby for changes in the training they undergo. Lobby for evaluations to be conducted frequently.
4. If neither protesting nor lobbying is for you, find ways to engage and educate police officers or support initiatives that do this financially or with your votes.
posted by royalsong at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2015
Mod note: royalsong, I appreciate that you feel like you're just trying to advocate for a good outcome in some way here, but it feels like we're several rounds into you trying to make your point, people taking exception, and you just re-making it again in a way that's escalating an already hard discussion. If you and folks responding to you could drop it at this point, I think that'll help this go better.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
royalsong, I think we understand what you are advocating. I am looking for something that acknowledges you've at least read, and hopefully even ruminated on, the issues I've raised in response.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:51 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:51 PM on June 8, 2015
(sorry, cortex; should've refreshed before submitting that.)
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:52 PM on June 8, 2015
Yoni Appelbaum: McKinney, Texas, and the Racial History of American Swimming Pools
Before 1950, Americans went swimming as often as they went to the movies, but they did so in public pools. There were relatively few club pools, and private pools were markers of extraordinary wealth. Over the next half-century, though, the number of private in-ground pools increased from roughly 2,500 to more than four million. The declining cost of pool construction, improved technology, and suburbanization all played important roles. But then, so did desegregation. As historian Jeff Wiltse argues in his 2007 book, Contested Waters: A Social History of Swimming Pools in America:posted by zombieflanders at 12:54 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]Although many whites abandoned desegregated public pools, most did not stop swimming. Instead, they built private pools, both club and residential, and swam in them …. Suburbanites organized private club pools rather than fund public pools because club pools enabled them to control the class and racial composition of swimmers, whereas public pools did not.Today, that complicated legacy persists across the United States. The public pools of mid-century—with their sandy beaches, manicured lawns, and well-tended facilities—are vanishingly rare. Those sorts of amenities are now generally found behind closed gates, funded by club fees or homeowners’ dues, and not by tax dollars. And they are open to those who can afford to live in such subdivisions, but not to their neighbors just down the road.
Whatever took place in McKinney on Friday, it occurred against this backdrop of the privatization of once-public facilities, giving residents the expectation of control over who sunbathes or doggie-paddles alongside them. Even if some of the teens were residents, and others possessed valid guest passes, as some insisted they did, the presence of “multiple juveniles…who do not live in the area” clearly triggered alarm. Several adults at the pool reportedly placed calls to the police. And none of the adult residents shown in the video appeared to manifest concern that the police response had gone too far, nor that its violence was disproportionate to the alleged offense.
Notably, wannabe-cop khaki white dude appears to be observing here as well.
Gah, he's like the guy in Too Many Cooks.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:07 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Gah, he's like the guy in Too Many Cooks.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:07 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is a great example of what a useful descriptor "'splaining" is, even when it's not precisely mansplaining that is happening
posted by NoraReed at 1:08 PM on June 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 1:08 PM on June 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
I'm gonna re-link to the original video here and point out that right before Mr. Cop Buddy basically sexually assaults this young girl by putting her head in between his crotch, at about 3:04 in the video Casebolt throws her to the ground violently and her two friends run over to make sure she's okay, and at 3:08 Mr. Cop Buddy literally shoves them aside in order to put this girl's head in between his crotch!!!!!!! This is SO insane to me and I know people here are talking about this guy but I haven't seen it brought up anywhere else! I posted the picture on the Southern Poverty Law Center's Facebook status about it and someone said "I didn't see that in the video, I wonder who made it", insinuating that it was photoshopped! That's a literal screenshot I took from YouTube! This guy should be thrown in jail, he sexually assaulted a teenaged girl AND he's obstructing a "law enforcement officer"!
posted by gucci mane at 1:14 PM on June 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 1:14 PM on June 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
“These Are My Children,” Goldie Taylor, Blue Nation Review, 08 June 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 1:16 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 1:16 PM on June 8, 2015
This guy should be thrown in jail, he sexually assaulted a teenaged girl AND he's obstructing a "law enforcement officer"!
Yes 100%
posted by sweetkid at 1:19 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yes 100%
posted by sweetkid at 1:19 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
I crossed the street and asked him why the car was getting a ticket, and pointed to the sign and explained that there was nothing illegal about where the car was parked. I asked him what possible reason there was for ticketing a legally parked car and asked him to tear up the ticket
I once rode up and asked a cop parked astride a bike lane (there was an actual parking spot right next to the lane) to move his patrol car. I was told to come around to the other side of the vehicle, where I was subsequently told that I was getting a ticket for "obstructing the roadway" (by stopping to ask the cop to stop obstructing the roadway). When I said that was ridiculous, the officer exited his vehicle and told me I was being arrested for "obstructing police business (or something like that)." When I said that was ridiculous, I was further informed that I was being charged with resisting arrest, as I was complying with being handcuffed. I never actually went to jail, because the officer decided that if I apologized for interfering with his police business, I could on my way.
Now, I could have just rode out that threat, actually had the cop take me to jail, and then banked on a judge throwing everything out. Even then, that's hour upon hours in police custody while getting booked, and then arranging for bail or waiting to see a judge. And what if the judge didn't toss out the charges? What if the cop's account of the story included some embellishments by the time I got in front of a judge and I did end up being charged with all that bullshit? Was it worth it to gamble whatever the fines would have been, or even possible jail time, to prove a point that some asshole cop didn't know how to park?
The point is that the police have an amazing toolbox they can use to fuck someone over, even if temporarily. It doesn't matter if you were perfectly in the right to point out there was nothing illegal about where that car was parked, or that the cop was parked illegally, or that there is no reason for a grown man to hurl a 14 year girl to the ground. If the police want to "detain" you, they can come up for a reason, and resisting that detainment (even if only by pointing out how it is ridiculous) will only give them further cause to abuse you. It leaves the ordinary citizen powerless in the face of police abuse, because to interfere is to become a criminal. You can see this in the one kid who rushed up to the Ofc. Dickroll Headcase when he threw the girl down. It is a perfectly natural and understandable reaction to want to come to the aid of a kid being abused by someone larger and stronger than them. Yet, you can see the guy who ran over still pulled up short, because it seems like he knew that if he actually did something about the obvious abuse of power in front of him, then he would be a criminal too.
So the kid pulled up short, powerless to to stop a grown man from shoving a girl face first into the dirt. And he still got a gun pulled on him.
The Buzzfeed article mentions that only one actual arrest was made, "of an adult male for interference with the duties of a police officer and evading arrest." I wonder if it was that guy we see in the video whose crime was apparently realizing he was helpless to stop police abuse and then trying to not get shot.
posted by Panjandrum at 1:19 PM on June 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
I once rode up and asked a cop parked astride a bike lane (there was an actual parking spot right next to the lane) to move his patrol car. I was told to come around to the other side of the vehicle, where I was subsequently told that I was getting a ticket for "obstructing the roadway" (by stopping to ask the cop to stop obstructing the roadway). When I said that was ridiculous, the officer exited his vehicle and told me I was being arrested for "obstructing police business (or something like that)." When I said that was ridiculous, I was further informed that I was being charged with resisting arrest, as I was complying with being handcuffed. I never actually went to jail, because the officer decided that if I apologized for interfering with his police business, I could on my way.
Now, I could have just rode out that threat, actually had the cop take me to jail, and then banked on a judge throwing everything out. Even then, that's hour upon hours in police custody while getting booked, and then arranging for bail or waiting to see a judge. And what if the judge didn't toss out the charges? What if the cop's account of the story included some embellishments by the time I got in front of a judge and I did end up being charged with all that bullshit? Was it worth it to gamble whatever the fines would have been, or even possible jail time, to prove a point that some asshole cop didn't know how to park?
The point is that the police have an amazing toolbox they can use to fuck someone over, even if temporarily. It doesn't matter if you were perfectly in the right to point out there was nothing illegal about where that car was parked, or that the cop was parked illegally, or that there is no reason for a grown man to hurl a 14 year girl to the ground. If the police want to "detain" you, they can come up for a reason, and resisting that detainment (even if only by pointing out how it is ridiculous) will only give them further cause to abuse you. It leaves the ordinary citizen powerless in the face of police abuse, because to interfere is to become a criminal. You can see this in the one kid who rushed up to the Ofc. Dickroll Headcase when he threw the girl down. It is a perfectly natural and understandable reaction to want to come to the aid of a kid being abused by someone larger and stronger than them. Yet, you can see the guy who ran over still pulled up short, because it seems like he knew that if he actually did something about the obvious abuse of power in front of him, then he would be a criminal too.
So the kid pulled up short, powerless to to stop a grown man from shoving a girl face first into the dirt. And he still got a gun pulled on him.
The Buzzfeed article mentions that only one actual arrest was made, "of an adult male for interference with the duties of a police officer and evading arrest." I wonder if it was that guy we see in the video whose crime was apparently realizing he was helpless to stop police abuse and then trying to not get shot.
posted by Panjandrum at 1:19 PM on June 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
“Anonymous targets McKinney police as teen involved in pool-party fight speaks out,” Dell Cameron, The Daily Dot, 08 June 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 1:22 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 1:22 PM on June 8, 2015
gucci mane - i am with you. it is so unreal to me that it seems like only here and a small part of twitter is even discussing this guy - like we're just so used to huge white dudes in jorts enforcing the law extra-judicially along side cops that he has become invisible to the viewers. i really don't understand why his actions were allowed. i even saw someone on twitter argue that he was "helping to cool things down" - like what?? i think it goes directly back to what FeministaJones had to say. the sexualized violence visited upon that girl by the white guys on scene is historical in his awfulness, and a guy being given a free pass to intimidate and manhandle by the authorities is absolutely part of it.
posted by nadawi at 1:26 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 1:26 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
The whole time I was watching this, I was thinking, "The citizens need to subdue and arrest that cop." But that would've certainly resulted in deaths.
Watching idly, as a law enforcement officer runs amok beating up children, has to be difficult to swallow. What recourse do any of those children have at this point?
posted by Chuffy at 1:39 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Watching idly, as a law enforcement officer runs amok beating up children, has to be difficult to swallow. What recourse do any of those children have at this point?
posted by Chuffy at 1:39 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
...Mr. Cop Buddy basically sexually assaults this young girl by putting her head in between his crotch, at about 3:04 in the video Casebolt throws her to the ground violently and her two friends run over to make sure she's okay, and at 3:08 Mr. Cop Buddy literally shoves them aside in order to put this girl's head in between his crotch!!!!!!! This is SO insane to me...
Or, as described in the Chief of Police's press conference:
"With the assistance of several adult residents, officers were able to disperse the crowd"
Dude is basically being lauded as a hero by the person who is supposed to be overseeing the investigation. Not optimistic here that any justice will get done.
posted by The Gooch at 1:45 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Or, as described in the Chief of Police's press conference:
"With the assistance of several adult residents, officers were able to disperse the crowd"
Dude is basically being lauded as a hero by the person who is supposed to be overseeing the investigation. Not optimistic here that any justice will get done.
posted by The Gooch at 1:45 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Yeah, if folks could maybe skip the "this person says that person says person x is..." stuff and leave any ID stuff on this not-time-sensitive side bit of the whole situation to some more rigorous sort of vetting/reporting, that'd probably be best.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:53 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:53 PM on June 8, 2015
Jahda Bakari is being interviewed on CNN as a witness (it's live so I don't think there's a link yet); she previously IV'd at CBS (my ad blocker is causing issues with the video so I cannot see it).
Her father is next to her during the interview, providing support. She's very brave in telling CNN what she saw imho. I mean she's only 13 years old! Interviewer is asking dumb questions that are rather painful to hear him ask. It's pretty obviously a racist incident but I guess the interviewer has to say things like, "What leads you to believe this was racially motivated? Did the police officer _say_ anything [racist]?" (or whatever he asked).
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 2:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Her father is next to her during the interview, providing support. She's very brave in telling CNN what she saw imho. I mean she's only 13 years old! Interviewer is asking dumb questions that are rather painful to hear him ask. It's pretty obviously a racist incident but I guess the interviewer has to say things like, "What leads you to believe this was racially motivated? Did the police officer _say_ anything [racist]?" (or whatever he asked).
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 2:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
The signoff from interviewer was pretty strange, too, "Welp, thanks for the interview and I hope you have a great rest of the summer!"
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 2:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 2:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
the residents of the subdivision are changing their facebook profile pictures to icons that say SUPPORT POLICE. soooo that's gross.
posted by nadawi at 2:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 2:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
i mean they might as well make icons of a noose thrown over a tree branch. ugh.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:13 PM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:13 PM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
“Anonymous targets McKinney police as teen involved in pool-party fight speaks out,
In that interview, I'm struck by a few things.
1. How calm the girl is as she describes people hitting her after being told to "go back to Section 8 housing" (she actually lives in the neighborhood).
2. How calm the mom is as she makes the point that adults should not be treating children this way.
I mean I would be swearing and my every word would be full of trembling indignation. I wonder how much rage they had to choke down. Or if it's a case of slightly bigger but same shit, different day. Or if they think that if they come off as angry, white people won't take them seriously but then they will be angry black people and for some reason racists believe black people don't have a right to be that.
Separately, I'm sad that Section 8 housing has become this racist dog whistle. There should be many more Section 8 vouchers, and no person should be ashamed of using them.
posted by angrycat at 2:16 PM on June 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
In that interview, I'm struck by a few things.
1. How calm the girl is as she describes people hitting her after being told to "go back to Section 8 housing" (she actually lives in the neighborhood).
2. How calm the mom is as she makes the point that adults should not be treating children this way.
I mean I would be swearing and my every word would be full of trembling indignation. I wonder how much rage they had to choke down. Or if it's a case of slightly bigger but same shit, different day. Or if they think that if they come off as angry, white people won't take them seriously but then they will be angry black people and for some reason racists believe black people don't have a right to be that.
Separately, I'm sad that Section 8 housing has become this racist dog whistle. There should be many more Section 8 vouchers, and no person should be ashamed of using them.
posted by angrycat at 2:16 PM on June 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
many of them are writing or sharing long diatribes about what REALLY happened including things like this :
The girl in the video was running her mouth & refused to leave the scene when directed to do so, several times. She was given every opportunity to comply, she didn't & when she continued ranting the officer went to detain her. At that point she is breaking the law by resisting & the officer did what he had to do. Of course he took her down, she should have left when she had the chance & stopped running her mouth. She wanted to act tough & grown. Guess what, act grown get treated grown, she didn't like that much & called for her Momma. If Momma had taught her to respect authority, she would have never been in this situation.posted by nadawi at 2:17 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's a town near me that is widely known for pulling drivers over for DWB to the point that we generally give directions that circle that town to any friend with more than a tan. I've dealt with the police in that town and they are sweet as pie to me. One even let me drive off when he should have taken me in (unpaid ticket), because "You look like a nice lady." Wanna guess what "nice" is code for? I live in suburbia, nowhere near the south. This nonsense is everywhere.
I had someone I warned ask me, "If everyone knows that town is a problem, why doesn't anyone do something about it?" I don't have an answer. How do we dig this out of our culture?
posted by Karmakaze at 2:18 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
I had someone I warned ask me, "If everyone knows that town is a problem, why doesn't anyone do something about it?" I don't have an answer. How do we dig this out of our culture?
posted by Karmakaze at 2:18 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
sometimes I feel like there is some sort of pay-off to being a racist piece of shit than I understand. Otherwise, why behave like that.
posted by angrycat at 2:32 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by angrycat at 2:32 PM on June 8, 2015
Can that suburb even be considered "the south"? It looks like where I lived in AZ, and people there were just as scared of non-whites.
posted by gucci mane at 2:35 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 2:35 PM on June 8, 2015
sometimes I feel like there is some sort of pay-off to being a racist piece of shit than I understand. Otherwise, why behave like that.
You get to feel like you're "better" than someone even when your life is objectively a waste of carbon. That's pretty much the whole payoff.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:36 PM on June 8, 2015
You get to feel like you're "better" than someone even when your life is objectively a waste of carbon. That's pretty much the whole payoff.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:36 PM on June 8, 2015
the people writing the (really long, badly written) diatribes about what really happened all seem to be mad about music with cursing and sex in the lyrics. they're also super mad that people might think them racists because their community is v. diverse (followed by a description of people that those being described would probably be upset at).
posted by nadawi at 2:38 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 2:38 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
nadawi: the sexualized violence visited upon that girl by the white guys on scene is historical in his awfulness, and a guy being given a free pass to intimidate and manhandle by the authorities is absolutely part of it.
It's so incredibly vile and disgusting. This young girl gets literally thrown to the ground and while crying has some huge man come and put her head between his legs (at this point I guess consent isn't even thought about?) and after the cop pulls his gun decides to return and force her face into the ground and get on top of her back. It looked like a gang rape.
posted by gucci mane at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's so incredibly vile and disgusting. This young girl gets literally thrown to the ground and while crying has some huge man come and put her head between his legs (at this point I guess consent isn't even thought about?) and after the cop pulls his gun decides to return and force her face into the ground and get on top of her back. It looked like a gang rape.
posted by gucci mane at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Separately, I'm sad that Section 8 housing has become this racist dog whistle. There should be many more Section 8 vouchers, and no person should be ashamed of using them.
Yeah, this is especially hilarious - hilarious I say and not anything else definitely[bitter sarcasm] - given that the lotteries to get into that housing have like 40,000 applicants in 10 days for 400 open spots. I may be exaggerating slightly, but not much. There are not nearly as many people living on 'Section 8' as people think there are.
posted by corb at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2015
Yeah, this is especially hilarious - hilarious I say and not anything else definitely[bitter sarcasm] - given that the lotteries to get into that housing have like 40,000 applicants in 10 days for 400 open spots. I may be exaggerating slightly, but not much. There are not nearly as many people living on 'Section 8' as people think there are.
posted by corb at 2:41 PM on June 8, 2015
this fb trawling hasn't all been me despairing at the human condition, though - one very nice seeming black lady in the neighborhood has decided that this is beyond acceptable and she's horrified at the response and how her community is closing ranks to support the police and hoa - so she's agitating to be allowed in the community watch group and she's keeping her eyes and ears open. she'll be going to the community meetings so the kids have a voice and someone looking out for them. she doesn't know if it will help but she's very eager to get involved and try to protect the non-white kids who live in or visit her neighborhood.
posted by nadawi at 2:44 PM on June 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 2:44 PM on June 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
sometimes I feel like there is some sort of pay-off to being a racist piece of shit than I understand. Otherwise, why behave like that.
Well, if they're in an HOA, one of the most cliquey, least democratic entities you can imagine, they are motivated by either pure racism (This is Why I Moved Here, So I Wouldn't Have to See Black People), and/or possibly asskissing solidarity (The entire community is changing their icons, what will they think if I don't? Will I get dinged for my lawn by the committee?), compounded by a desire not to be seen as That Racist HOA in McKinney. I mean, they paid a good chunk of change to live there, jumped through HOA hoops, were proud of their purchase, but now everyone else thinks they beat up kids and are a bunch of dumb white racists. They don't want that. Therefore, they blame the kids/media, confirming for much of us that they are racists.
posted by emjaybee at 2:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, if they're in an HOA, one of the most cliquey, least democratic entities you can imagine, they are motivated by either pure racism (This is Why I Moved Here, So I Wouldn't Have to See Black People), and/or possibly asskissing solidarity (The entire community is changing their icons, what will they think if I don't? Will I get dinged for my lawn by the committee?), compounded by a desire not to be seen as That Racist HOA in McKinney. I mean, they paid a good chunk of change to live there, jumped through HOA hoops, were proud of their purchase, but now everyone else thinks they beat up kids and are a bunch of dumb white racists. They don't want that. Therefore, they blame the kids/media, confirming for much of us that they are racists.
posted by emjaybee at 2:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Separately, I'm sad that Section 8 housing has become this racist dog whistle.
I don't really remember a time when it was not. As I said above, a huge chunk of the homes in my childhood neighborhood were dedicated to Section 8 housing. People --mostly people who didn't live there, but some who did-- made no secret of using it as code for "the one part of town where we let black people live."
In fact, my neighborhood abutted a large apartment complex that was majority black/Latin@, and which was routinely referred to as "Section 8" despite having ZERO subsidized units.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:47 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't really remember a time when it was not. As I said above, a huge chunk of the homes in my childhood neighborhood were dedicated to Section 8 housing. People --mostly people who didn't live there, but some who did-- made no secret of using it as code for "the one part of town where we let black people live."
In fact, my neighborhood abutted a large apartment complex that was majority black/Latin@, and which was routinely referred to as "Section 8" despite having ZERO subsidized units.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:47 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, they paid a good chunk of change to live there
this specific point has come up in every fb post i've seen - how much money they've spent to not have to deal with the lessers. this is also brought up when they describe every party that has gone above their desired noise level in the neighborhood, whether it was the same teens involved or not. you can practically hear their faces turning beet red as they stomp on the ground.
posted by nadawi at 2:52 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
this specific point has come up in every fb post i've seen - how much money they've spent to not have to deal with the lessers. this is also brought up when they describe every party that has gone above their desired noise level in the neighborhood, whether it was the same teens involved or not. you can practically hear their faces turning beet red as they stomp on the ground.
posted by nadawi at 2:52 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Well, if they're in an HOA, one of the most cliquey, least democratic entities you can imagine, they are motivated by either
Well, judging by the truly shitty comments I read on the Atlantic before I couldn't take anymore, apparently there's also a "But I mean, shouldn't people be allowed to keep black people away if they bring the property value down?"
and then I turned into a giant dragon and burned everything because humanity was too much for me.
posted by corb at 2:53 PM on June 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Well, judging by the truly shitty comments I read on the Atlantic before I couldn't take anymore, apparently there's also a "But I mean, shouldn't people be allowed to keep black people away if they bring the property value down?"
and then I turned into a giant dragon and burned everything because humanity was too much for me.
posted by corb at 2:53 PM on June 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
a baby ruth bar and a slingshot on a hot summer's day would do wonders for that swimming pool
posted by pyramid termite at 2:59 PM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:59 PM on June 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
I wonder how much rage they had to choke down. Or if it's a case of slightly bigger but same shit, different day. Or if they think that if they come off as angry, white people won't take them seriously but then they will be angry black people and for some reason racists believe black people don't have a right to be that.
Black people get read as aggressive at pretty much any tone level above "high on opiates" relaxed. I learned VERY early that retelling my experiences while perceivably upset just gave authorities further excuse to recast me as the problem. If they'd yelled, or raised their voices, the news clips of them talking to reporters would be played on repeat while fundraisers for the cops made their rounds.
Basiclly, it is part of the politics of respectability that Black people get caught up in. Even when really messed up things happen, we are expected to hold our heads up high, be diginfied, and make MLK proud or whoever the fuck gets raised up as the Number One Respectable Negro.
posted by Ashen at 3:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [42 favorites]
Black people get read as aggressive at pretty much any tone level above "high on opiates" relaxed. I learned VERY early that retelling my experiences while perceivably upset just gave authorities further excuse to recast me as the problem. If they'd yelled, or raised their voices, the news clips of them talking to reporters would be played on repeat while fundraisers for the cops made their rounds.
Basiclly, it is part of the politics of respectability that Black people get caught up in. Even when really messed up things happen, we are expected to hold our heads up high, be diginfied, and make MLK proud or whoever the fuck gets raised up as the Number One Respectable Negro.
posted by Ashen at 3:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [42 favorites]
Real-estate is rotten with racist assumptions, so much so that if you spend any time looking for housing (and you're a white person) you have to work very hard not to get sucked into assuming black person in neighborhood=high-crime area. Because that's how everyone else thinks. There are many perfectly nice, majority-minority neighborhoods in the DFW area, we've lived in a few as renters, and the nonwhite folks were never a problem for us, though the white ones sometimes were. They were also always the ones who came over and introduced themselves and then began complaining about how when they bought their house, it was much nicer and "those people" didn't live there then.
And the worst part about all of it is that it's self-reinforcing; if you categorize white-only neighborhoods as "good" and other neighborhoods as "bad" it actually does effect desirability and price, reducing value and wealth. Unless it goes the other way and white people decide to move in and gentrify, pricing out all the folks that were already there. I have no idea how to fix any of that.
posted by emjaybee at 3:08 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
And the worst part about all of it is that it's self-reinforcing; if you categorize white-only neighborhoods as "good" and other neighborhoods as "bad" it actually does effect desirability and price, reducing value and wealth. Unless it goes the other way and white people decide to move in and gentrify, pricing out all the folks that were already there. I have no idea how to fix any of that.
posted by emjaybee at 3:08 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
that fucking barrel roll holy shit
Really got his hands all over that young girl in a bikini.
So gross.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:13 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Really got his hands all over that young girl in a bikini.
So gross.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:13 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Even when really messed up things happen, we are expected to hold our heads up high, be diginfied, and make MLK proud or whoever the fuck gets raised up as the Number One Respectable Negro.
My eight year old daughter saw me watching the Luther the Anger Translator bit at the WHCD, and asked me to explain the joke. (She and I are both white.) I kept trying to dance around the issue, and finally realized what I was doing, and sighed and said "Well, sweetie, what it boils down to is this: we have a problem in this country where when Black people get angry, white people freak out."
posted by KathrynT at 3:13 PM on June 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
My eight year old daughter saw me watching the Luther the Anger Translator bit at the WHCD, and asked me to explain the joke. (She and I are both white.) I kept trying to dance around the issue, and finally realized what I was doing, and sighed and said "Well, sweetie, what it boils down to is this: we have a problem in this country where when Black people get angry, white people freak out."
posted by KathrynT at 3:13 PM on June 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
> I had someone I warned ask me, "If everyone knows that town is a problem, why doesn't anyone do something about it?" I don't have an answer. How do we dig this out of our culture?
Someone made the very good point in a recent post on MeFi that an overwhelming majority of people from various populations are being utterly oppressed, but in different patterns of oppression that make it difficult for all these people to realize the necessity of a concerted, sympathetic effort to every groups' specific plights. To paraphrase: it was something along the lines that "if you aren't white, male, wealthy, hetero-normative, and cis-gendered," you're being oppressed on one of these fronts.
Because how silly (and statistically astronomical) is it that these are the characteristics that almost always show up in the oppressors or abusers or power-trippers in stories like this? Not as silly as the fact that the victimized children in this story are showing themselves to be more mature than the adults and public officials who acted more like toddlers in the given circumstances.
> This thread is a great example of what a useful descriptor "'splaining" is, even when it's not precisely mansplaining that is happening
I've just taken any form of "-splaining" to mean "providing incorrect or incomplete information based on a privileged perspective."
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 3:15 PM on June 8, 2015
Someone made the very good point in a recent post on MeFi that an overwhelming majority of people from various populations are being utterly oppressed, but in different patterns of oppression that make it difficult for all these people to realize the necessity of a concerted, sympathetic effort to every groups' specific plights. To paraphrase: it was something along the lines that "if you aren't white, male, wealthy, hetero-normative, and cis-gendered," you're being oppressed on one of these fronts.
Because how silly (and statistically astronomical) is it that these are the characteristics that almost always show up in the oppressors or abusers or power-trippers in stories like this? Not as silly as the fact that the victimized children in this story are showing themselves to be more mature than the adults and public officials who acted more like toddlers in the given circumstances.
> This thread is a great example of what a useful descriptor "'splaining" is, even when it's not precisely mansplaining that is happening
I've just taken any form of "-splaining" to mean "providing incorrect or incomplete information based on a privileged perspective."
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 3:15 PM on June 8, 2015
Black people get read as aggressive at pretty much any tone level above "high on opiates" relaxed.
For example, the way Boots Riley's incredibly laid-back response during this interview with a Fox TV affiliate gets called a "rant".
posted by Lexica at 3:29 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
For example, the way Boots Riley's incredibly laid-back response during this interview with a Fox TV affiliate gets called a "rant".
posted by Lexica at 3:29 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
dfw gun enthusiasts are planning a counter protest tonight, suggests other supporters "lock-n-load"
the inclusion of warnings about "lawless teens" would normally make me joke about dancing, but it seems extra threatening in light of current events.
posted by nadawi at 4:27 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
the inclusion of warnings about "lawless teens" would normally make me joke about dancing, but it seems extra threatening in light of current events.
posted by nadawi at 4:27 PM on June 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
how much money they've spent to not have to deal with the lessers
Yeah, it's like you want to shake these people and say, "I don't care how much you paid for that castle, until we actually bring back feudalism you can't treat people like peasants."
posted by Panjandrum at 4:39 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it's like you want to shake these people and say, "I don't care how much you paid for that castle, until we actually bring back feudalism you can't treat people like peasants."
posted by Panjandrum at 4:39 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
dfw gun enthusiasts are planning a counter protest tonight, suggests other supporters "lock-n-load"
Honest-to-God, some people really do just want to watch the world burn.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:40 PM on June 8, 2015
Honest-to-God, some people really do just want to watch the world burn.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:40 PM on June 8, 2015
That whole "well regulated militia" bit has always meant lynch mobs.
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Rage Against the Minivan: America . . . where a white woman yelling racist insults ends in the brutalization of black children
A 14 year old girl who was handcuffed is on Chris Hayes' show right now, and says the entire thing started with an adult making racial slurs at a Black child.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:05 PM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
A 14 year old girl who was handcuffed is on Chris Hayes' show right now, and says the entire thing started with an adult making racial slurs at a Black child.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:05 PM on June 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
the guy who called 911 was holding up a sign on the roadside today that said "support mckinney police." he has previously been arrested on animal cruelty charges.
posted by nadawi at 5:07 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 5:07 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
i get extra mad at the tamir rice case since his murderers are listed as his victims on the police report.
posted by nadawi at 5:11 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 5:11 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
dfw gun enthusiasts are planning a counter protest tonight, suggests other supporters "lock-n-load"
Let's be real honest here, how many of those "enthusiasts" are just "enthusiastic" about maintaining their fantasy of using said guns on POC? Of course they'd counter-protest: it's obvious that they have raging metaphorical hard-ons for this type of shit and it's disgusting.
They imagine a world where it's more explicitly open season on people of color they don't like, and keep endorsing and vigorously defending every societal nudge towards that direction. Soon living vicariously through cops won't be enough.
posted by Ashen at 5:12 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Let's be real honest here, how many of those "enthusiasts" are just "enthusiastic" about maintaining their fantasy of using said guns on POC? Of course they'd counter-protest: it's obvious that they have raging metaphorical hard-ons for this type of shit and it's disgusting.
They imagine a world where it's more explicitly open season on people of color they don't like, and keep endorsing and vigorously defending every societal nudge towards that direction. Soon living vicariously through cops won't be enough.
posted by Ashen at 5:12 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
If you're not already following him, @deray is in McKinney doing some really great coverage.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:12 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 5:12 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Some live coverage of the protest march
Live Twitter feed
Some Periscope video feeds
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 5:35 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Live Twitter feed
Some Periscope video feeds
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 5:35 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
suggests other supporters "lock-n-load"
To be my most charitable and hopeful for humanity that I can possibly be, 'lock-n-load' is sometimes used as slang for 'get moving' and not-actually-guns by people who use guns. Like, if I'm going out to a bar and show up to pick someone up at their house, I might be like 'Lock-n-load, boys! We're going on the town!' but have no actual firearms.
otherwise jesus wept and I really would like to have some faith in humanity, just a little, please?
posted by corb at 5:41 PM on June 8, 2015
To be my most charitable and hopeful for humanity that I can possibly be, 'lock-n-load' is sometimes used as slang for 'get moving' and not-actually-guns by people who use guns. Like, if I'm going out to a bar and show up to pick someone up at their house, I might be like 'Lock-n-load, boys! We're going on the town!' but have no actual firearms.
otherwise jesus wept and I really would like to have some faith in humanity, just a little, please?
posted by corb at 5:41 PM on June 8, 2015
"Let's Go Swimming" at the protest.
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 5:41 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 5:41 PM on June 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would bet so much money that the hard-ons are not metaphorical and the lock-and-load people are not using that as a euphemism for something else.
posted by rtha at 5:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by rtha at 5:46 PM on June 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
Pool is temporarily closed for treatment.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 6:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 6:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pool is temporarily closed for treatment.
Now where have I heard that one before?
"Another local tells of the day Sammy Davis Jr. took a dip in a whites-only swimming pool at the New Frontier. “Afterward, the manager drained the pool.”
Cole learned his lesson the night a Strip doorman turned him away. “But that’s Nat King Cole,” his white companion said.
“I don’t care if he’s Jesus Christ,” said the doorman. “He’s a n-----, and he stays out.”
Lena Horne was the exception who proved the rule. A favorite of Bugsy Siegel, the gorgeous torch singer was allowed to stay at the Flamingo as long as she steered clear of the casino, restaurants and other public areas. When she checked out, her bedsheets and towels were burned."
posted by fifthrider at 6:03 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Now where have I heard that one before?
"Another local tells of the day Sammy Davis Jr. took a dip in a whites-only swimming pool at the New Frontier. “Afterward, the manager drained the pool.”
Cole learned his lesson the night a Strip doorman turned him away. “But that’s Nat King Cole,” his white companion said.
“I don’t care if he’s Jesus Christ,” said the doorman. “He’s a n-----, and he stays out.”
Lena Horne was the exception who proved the rule. A favorite of Bugsy Siegel, the gorgeous torch singer was allowed to stay at the Flamingo as long as she steered clear of the casino, restaurants and other public areas. When she checked out, her bedsheets and towels were burned."
posted by fifthrider at 6:03 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
To be my most charitable and hopeful for humanity that I can possibly be, 'lock-n-load' is sometimes used as slang for 'get moving' and not-actually-guns by people who use guns. Like, if I'm going out to a bar and show up to pick someone up at their house, I might be like 'Lock-n-load, boys! We're going on the town!' but have no actual firearms.
Come on.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
Come on.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:04 PM on June 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
Come on
Sometimes I have to look for the best in human nature so I don't wish it all would be cleansed with nuclear fire. This is one of those times. I try to empathize, but I can't see any possible reason to think you would need to not just bring firearms, but bring locked and cocked firearms to a protest. Like, I can empathize with some truly out there people and I cannot get this.
posted by corb at 6:17 PM on June 8, 2015
Sometimes I have to look for the best in human nature so I don't wish it all would be cleansed with nuclear fire. This is one of those times. I try to empathize, but I can't see any possible reason to think you would need to not just bring firearms, but bring locked and cocked firearms to a protest. Like, I can empathize with some truly out there people and I cannot get this.
posted by corb at 6:17 PM on June 8, 2015
Reports that the physical confrontation started because a white mother slapped a black teen. Two of the kids involved have taken to YouTube to get their stories out.
posted by Andrhia at 6:38 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Andrhia at 6:38 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
'Treatment. Riiiiiight.'
Wonder how much HOA dues are going to have to go up when that pool keeps getting contaminated by drive-by mysterious substance bombs.
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on June 8, 2015
Wonder how much HOA dues are going to have to go up when that pool keeps getting contaminated by drive-by mysterious substance bombs.
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on June 8, 2015
Fight back like Ferguson.
Pretty inspirational photograph.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 6:53 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Pretty inspirational photograph.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 6:53 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I rewatch Do The Right Thing time to time because it's still alarmingly apt. Right now, though, the only bit I can watch is Samuel L. Jackson's line about how we all gotta take a chill, which I wanna play pretty much everywhere right now.
But then there's also this line of his -
But then there's also this line of his -
My people, my people, what can I say; say what I can. I saw it but didn't believe it; I didn't believe what I saw. Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:55 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
[The CNN video I commented on (above) is now up at their Latest News Videos section - here is the direct link (YouTube): "Pool party witness speaks out about police confrontation".]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:00 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Some of my church folks are at that protest. Our youth are doing a social justice unit and after Ferguson, decided to focus on race. Proud of them. Wish I could have gotten out there too.
And good on that young man calling out the racism and using his video for good.
posted by emjaybee at 7:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
And good on that young man calling out the racism and using his video for good.
posted by emjaybee at 7:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Young man in blue shirt in the video, who was handcuffed and detained and had a bloody lip has his attorney speaking for him on Fox news local station. They both "wanted to make clear" that officer did not hit him to bloody his lip, but he bit his lip while being forced to the ground. Which, in my book, means the officer did cause the injury. His lawyer saying he was grabbed and cuff while doing what he had been told to do (leaving) and they anticipate the charges will be dropped. But he was detained for 24 hours and his dad had to post 2k bail. Which is hardly nothing.
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
A riot is about to happen! Sit on the girl in the bikini!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:37 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:37 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
In other cop violence on black people news, the cop that murdered Walter Scott actually got charged with murder.
Apparently shooting a black man in the back while he's unarmed and running away is the line for getting a grand jury to indict. Let's see what we get for a conviction. Johannes Mehserle only got a year in actual jail when he shot Grant in the back while he was restrained and down on the fucking ground.
posted by Talez at 7:56 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Apparently shooting a black man in the back while he's unarmed and running away is the line for getting a grand jury to indict. Let's see what we get for a conviction. Johannes Mehserle only got a year in actual jail when he shot Grant in the back while he was restrained and down on the fucking ground.
posted by Talez at 7:56 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm seeing Tweets go around now trying to get specific people identified as adults involved in this thing fired. (Identified successfully? Who knows!) I am troubled by this, in no small part because of the thing where someone Reddit suspected of being the Boston marathon bomber turned up dead?
But also I'm concerned at how fast we go to the nuclear option. Even a horrible person may have non-horrible children or elderly relatives relying on them and their support, and getting a racist fired from a position of authority doesn't mean the next person promoted up won't be just as freakin' racist. Ugh ugh moral ambiguity and discomfort.
posted by Andrhia at 8:32 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
But also I'm concerned at how fast we go to the nuclear option. Even a horrible person may have non-horrible children or elderly relatives relying on them and their support, and getting a racist fired from a position of authority doesn't mean the next person promoted up won't be just as freakin' racist. Ugh ugh moral ambiguity and discomfort.
posted by Andrhia at 8:32 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Apparently shooting a black man in the back while he's unarmed and running away is the line for getting a grand jury to indict.
Note: The line is only there for videotaped instances that the public has seen.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:35 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Note: The line is only there for videotaped instances that the public has seen.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:35 PM on June 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm mostly just worried about doxing people because people get it wrong pretty often and then random innocents end up caught up. I don't have a lot of faith in Anonymous managing to get this right, anyway.
posted by NoraReed at 8:37 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 8:37 PM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
and getting a racist fired from a position of authority doesn't mean the next person promoted up won't be just as freakin' racist.
True, there are no guarantees, but if more racist people get fired then people who don't want to get fired may be encouraged to be less racist, at least overtly so.
posted by Rumple at 8:41 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
True, there are no guarantees, but if more racist people get fired then people who don't want to get fired may be encouraged to be less racist, at least overtly so.
posted by Rumple at 8:41 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
The ideal would be to make the firing of racists, incompetents and bullies so utterly routine that such people would be shaken out of the system or not bother trying to get into it in the first place. Sadly US policing has quite an entrenched culture of protecting and even rewarding people for those things.
posted by Artw at 8:45 PM on June 8, 2015
posted by Artw at 8:45 PM on June 8, 2015
Lena Horne was the exception who proved the rule. A favorite of Bugsy Siegel, the gorgeous torch singer was allowed to stay at the Flamingo as long as she steered clear of the casino, restaurants and other public areas. When she checked out, her bedsheets and towels were burned."
good lord and I didn't think I *could* get angrier today
still, as the U.S. world cup fans say, I believe that we will win.
posted by sallybrown at 8:45 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
good lord and I didn't think I *could* get angrier today
still, as the U.S. world cup fans say, I believe that we will win.
posted by sallybrown at 8:45 PM on June 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't think they're talking about the police officers getting fired so much as the bystanders who didn't intervene or who are standing up for police brutality and racism. I hope we can all agree that Officer Cobra Kai needs an extended or permanent time out from policing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:30 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:30 AM on June 9, 2015
I'm willing to extend a TINY BIT of the benefit of the doubt for some of the people not interfering because there are definitely conditions that make it really hard to intervene in those kind of situations, but there are more than one white person actively helping the cops with the violence and egging them on, plus the ones who assaulted the girl in the first place and were yelling racist shit at them. I'm 100% okay with the full names and workplaces of those people going out and getting their asses fired/prosecuted/ostracized/permanently linked to their being racist shitheads in their Google results for the rest of their lives/etc, I just am hesitant to spread the info around when I see it released on places like Tumblr until we have a reliable source (such as an identification from one of the kids at the party, etc) saying that's who it is, because occasionally random people with nothing to do with the incident at hand get identified in those things.
posted by NoraReed at 1:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 1:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years
posted by Artw at 5:27 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:27 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I am 100% not okay with trying to get either bystanders or people who are steeped in our culture enough to think that cops are a valid authority fired. It's one thing when we're 'watching the watchers'. It's another thing when we're watching ourselves and destroying families just because we think it's right.
And from a tactical standpoint, you know what's guaranteed to permanently calcify someone's beliefs? Persecuting them for them. It instantly creates an us vs them, breeds resentment, and creates hatred for not only them but their family and those who love them.
posted by corb at 6:01 AM on June 9, 2015
And from a tactical standpoint, you know what's guaranteed to permanently calcify someone's beliefs? Persecuting them for them. It instantly creates an us vs them, breeds resentment, and creates hatred for not only them but their family and those who love them.
posted by corb at 6:01 AM on June 9, 2015
Yeah, just to clarify, the chatter I'm seeing isn't about police officers, because heck yeah that deserves disciplinary action though and through. The "get her fired" stuff I'm less comfortable with is about one of the white women at the scene, possibly the mother who started it all. But again, who knows if they even IDed her right?
posted by Andrhia at 6:11 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Andrhia at 6:11 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, if a uniformed cop says some shit, film that with your phone and advocate for his dismissal, to be clear.
posted by corb at 6:32 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by corb at 6:32 AM on June 9, 2015
people aren't trying to identify bystanders, they are trying to identify the woman who assaulted a child to start this whole mess and the man who provided back up to the police by holding a girl's head between his thighs.
posted by nadawi at 6:36 AM on June 9, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:36 AM on June 9, 2015 [21 favorites]
if they are on film assaulting teenagers i don't actually care of suffering consequences calcifies their beliefs. they should have been arrested.
posted by nadawi at 6:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [12 favorites]
May there be many, many civil cases.
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
if they are on film assaulting teenagers i don't actually care of suffering consequences calcifies their beliefs. they should have been arrested.
What point in the video is that at? I don't remember seeing that clearly captured the first time around. Or is it a secondary video?
posted by corb at 6:49 AM on June 9, 2015
What point in the video is that at? I don't remember seeing that clearly captured the first time around. Or is it a secondary video?
posted by corb at 6:49 AM on June 9, 2015
The video made me cry because it showed me how black children are not allowed to play.
posted by TwoStride at 6:50 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 6:50 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Let's please not derail again with the argument about not being nice to racists will create a persecution / martyr complex. Also, corb, I know there are a lot of comments here, but this stuff has been covered in the thread, and this needs not to become everyone responding to you again.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:55 AM on June 9, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:55 AM on June 9, 2015 [11 favorites]
Related: The Fair Grounds Park Riot (1949)
The Fairgrounds Park Riot was an event which occurred on June 21, 1949 in St. Louis, Missouri, USA. On that day, for the first time, African Americans were permitted to swim at the Fairgrounds Park Pool. While approximately forty African American children swam at the pool that afternoon, nearly 200 whites surrounded the pool fence. Violence broke out later that day as the swimmers left the pool. Several men, women and children of both races were hospitalized; however, no one was killed.posted by Fizz at 8:32 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is a really helpful analysis from a former police officer who current studies policing and trains officers, about what went wrong with the policing at McKinney:
The two officers in this brief video represent two different policing styles, two different mindsets that officers use as they interact with civilians: the Guardian and the Warrior. As a former police officer and current policing scholar, I know that an officer’s mindset has tremendous impact on police/civilian encounters. I’ve described the Guardian and Warrior mindsets at some length here and here; for now, suffice to say that the right mindset can de-escalate tense situations, induce compliance, and increase community trust over the long-term. The kids interacting with the first officer were excited, but not upset; they remained cooperative. Had they gone home at that moment, they’d have a story for their friends and family, but it would be a story that happened to have the police in it rather than being a story about the police.posted by flug at 9:28 AM on June 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
The wrong mindset, on the other hand, can exacerbate a tense encounter, produce resistance, and lead to entirely avoidable violence. It can, and has, caused longterm damage to police/community relations. We shouldn’t be surprised that the kids Corporal Casebolt was yelling at weren’t eager to do what he was ordering them to do—no one likes being cursed at and disrespected in front of their peers, and people of all ages, especially teenagers, resent being treated unjustly. That resentment can lead to resistance, and Police Warriors—taught to exercise unquestioned command over a scene—overcome resistance by using force.
Although the short video does not provide a complete picture of the scene, it appears likely that force in this case could have been avoided.
Gene Demby at NPR's Code Switch: Who Gets To Hang Out At The Pool?
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 9:37 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 9:37 AM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Although the short video does not provide a complete picture of the scene, it appears likely that force in this case could have been avoided.
"Likely," huh? I guess maybe if they used that revolutionary policing tactic I heard about once where they ask politely to see everybody's pool passes instead of just opting to wrestle people to the ground.
posted by fifthrider at 9:39 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Likely," huh? I guess maybe if they used that revolutionary policing tactic I heard about once where they ask politely to see everybody's pool passes instead of just opting to wrestle people to the ground.
posted by fifthrider at 9:39 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here are two brief NPR pieces, one from April and the other from May of this year about Guardian vs. Warrior mentality in policing. And here's one about Washington state's police academy trying to take deliberate steps to move from Warrior to Guardian mindsets.
That last one is encouraging but I think it also highlights how difficult police reform is going to be. It's not just a matter of rules and regulations. It's about fundamentally different cultural expectations (both internal and external) of what it means to be a police officer. We have at least two, maybe three generations, of police who were trained and came up in the post-Nixon, war-on-crime, rise-of-the-superpredator years. Can they adjust their mindsets? Or do we basically have to wait for all of them to retire?
posted by mhum at 9:47 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
That last one is encouraging but I think it also highlights how difficult police reform is going to be. It's not just a matter of rules and regulations. It's about fundamentally different cultural expectations (both internal and external) of what it means to be a police officer. We have at least two, maybe three generations, of police who were trained and came up in the post-Nixon, war-on-crime, rise-of-the-superpredator years. Can they adjust their mindsets? Or do we basically have to wait for all of them to retire?
posted by mhum at 9:47 AM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I can't stand how the white people mill around like fucking NPCs while this shit-for-brains cop gets off on pinning a fucking kid to the ground in a goddamn bathing suit.
I keep wondering what would've happened if one of the whites had intervened with Casebolt. I suppose he'd spew profanities or just ignore them.
posted by jgirl at 9:59 AM on June 9, 2015
From a Southern supposed LEO, asked if response was inappropriate: "Watch the video. The 2 men raced 2 his blind right side quickly as if 2 jump him. I'd have pulled my weapon as well."
posted by jgirl at 10:14 AM on June 9, 2015
posted by jgirl at 10:14 AM on June 9, 2015
if it were so justified, why did the other cops immediately hold him back as if he were out of control? how far gone must you be for your underlings to restrain you?
posted by nadawi at 10:22 AM on June 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:22 AM on June 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
And of course, it's "the 2 men," because black people go directly from infancy to full-grown adulthood.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [36 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2015 [36 favorites]
jgirl: “From a Southern supposed LEO, asked if response was inappropriate: "Watch the video. The 2 men raced 2 his blind right side quickly as if 2 jump him. I'd have pulled my weapon as well."”I just gritted my teeth and watched again to make sure I was recollecting it right. The two kids actually stop out of arm's reach and were already retreating before the weapon was drawn. I also finally saw what people above said. He sends the group of girls off, and in doing so separates them into two different groups. When the victim calls to the other group, "Call my Mama," he decides this is unacceptable.
flug's excellent link got me to thinking again about the abandonment of the Peelian Principles. I went to see what's being posted on the Law Officer Magazine website about this, but there was nothing. I did find this article, “Why the 'Soft' Uniform Is Dangerous” by Travis Yates, which goes to illustrate just how hard it will be to root out the warrior cops from our police.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:47 AM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
The two men (is it me or is that characterization of them perfectly in line with the "whites tend to believe black children are older than they are" phenomenon that is supported by research data?) "rushed" (also in line with the data that shows people overestimate the amplitude and misinterpret the intent of any perceived transgressions they see or think they see black people commit) Casebolt because they saw that he was beating up a teenage girl in a bikini for no good goddamned reason.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:49 AM on June 9, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by lord_wolf at 10:49 AM on June 9, 2015 [26 favorites]
It would be ... interesting to pose those questions to him.
posted by jgirl at 10:57 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jgirl at 10:57 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wish there were a way to initiate a cultural shift from within the police department because trying to change it from the outside seems to cause them to bunker down (see deBlasio and the NYPD). Systems of all kinds tend to resist change and I can't help but think that the only way to fix this is to replace it from the ground up with new people working in an entirely new system.
I also think there's an anti-intellectusl bent among many police officers that makes it challenging or even impossible to effect change. To whit, research and evidence supports the idea that deescslating situations is more effective in the long term. But that information is always met with the same kind of disbelief you hear from climate change deniers or anti-vax people. "So what if evidence says this, I believe the opposite."
Do police officers tend to be conservative politically? I've always assumed they have been but don't know if data supports that. If so, maybe one possible way to address both of these issues is to start encouraging progressive youth to join the force en masse with the very specific goal of modeling the kind of behavior we should see from the police.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:05 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also think there's an anti-intellectusl bent among many police officers that makes it challenging or even impossible to effect change. To whit, research and evidence supports the idea that deescslating situations is more effective in the long term. But that information is always met with the same kind of disbelief you hear from climate change deniers or anti-vax people. "So what if evidence says this, I believe the opposite."
Do police officers tend to be conservative politically? I've always assumed they have been but don't know if data supports that. If so, maybe one possible way to address both of these issues is to start encouraging progressive youth to join the force en masse with the very specific goal of modeling the kind of behavior we should see from the police.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:05 AM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
"To whit, research and evidence supports the idea that deescslating situations is more effective in the long term. But that information is always met with the same kind of disbelief you hear from climate change deniers or anti-vax people. 'So what if evidence says this, I believe the opposite.'"
There was a post a couple of weeks ago to an episode of The Norden, a Finnish television series, where an LA police captain visits police departments in Finland, Sweden, and Norway and compares approaches to policing. The American police officer, Peter Whittingham, is probably among those who aren't quite so militarized and aggressive in American policing, but you can still see both how his mind is just boggled at the radically different approach than he's accustomed to, and that, in the end, he's still pretty convinced that either it wouldn't really work if these police had to deal with seriously dangerous criminals (despite the fact that they do) or that it actually just doesn't work and they're just dogmatic about doing it wrong. He doesn't come out and say this explicitly, because he seems like a nice guy and is too polite to do so, but I think it's pretty clear that in the end his thinking about policing isn't really challenged that much and he still believes, in his bones, that the way he does it is the right way to do it.
I highly recommend watching the episode, it's very relevant to this discussion. As you can see I wrote in that thread, if we put aside the racism issue -- which I think is the dominant issue in this particular incident -- the other big problem in American policing is the militarization of it and the mindset that the public are all either dangerous criminals or under the right conditions dangerous criminals and that the police are threatened at all times, that it's most important to establish authority and control, and that the biggest priority is an officer's safety. American police are a hostile, paranoid occupying army and this is generally true, but nowhere is it more true than when it's also racial.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:43 AM on June 9, 2015 [14 favorites]
There was a post a couple of weeks ago to an episode of The Norden, a Finnish television series, where an LA police captain visits police departments in Finland, Sweden, and Norway and compares approaches to policing. The American police officer, Peter Whittingham, is probably among those who aren't quite so militarized and aggressive in American policing, but you can still see both how his mind is just boggled at the radically different approach than he's accustomed to, and that, in the end, he's still pretty convinced that either it wouldn't really work if these police had to deal with seriously dangerous criminals (despite the fact that they do) or that it actually just doesn't work and they're just dogmatic about doing it wrong. He doesn't come out and say this explicitly, because he seems like a nice guy and is too polite to do so, but I think it's pretty clear that in the end his thinking about policing isn't really challenged that much and he still believes, in his bones, that the way he does it is the right way to do it.
I highly recommend watching the episode, it's very relevant to this discussion. As you can see I wrote in that thread, if we put aside the racism issue -- which I think is the dominant issue in this particular incident -- the other big problem in American policing is the militarization of it and the mindset that the public are all either dangerous criminals or under the right conditions dangerous criminals and that the police are threatened at all times, that it's most important to establish authority and control, and that the biggest priority is an officer's safety. American police are a hostile, paranoid occupying army and this is generally true, but nowhere is it more true than when it's also racial.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:43 AM on June 9, 2015 [14 favorites]
a hostile, paranoid occupying army and this is generally true, but nowhere is it more true than when it's also racial.
So.... how do we make the world a safer place for the rest of us?
posted by infini at 11:48 AM on June 9, 2015
So.... how do we make the world a safer place for the rest of us?
posted by infini at 11:48 AM on June 9, 2015
I have followed (and been depressed by) this story since it broke and with each additional article, video, interview, and comment, I am struck anew at just how incredibly low stakes this entire situation really was--and how that and the cops’ response to it, in a way, demonstrates just how deeply steeped in racism (and misogyny) American society is.
There were no drugs or alcohol, no vandalism, no dangerous or illegal activity at the party. It was broad daylight. There were no weapons (other than the cops' weapons). No one was operating vehicles/bikes/skateboards unsafely, recklessly, or destructively. The kids were (to my eye anyway) quite cooperative for teenagers. There were no agitators amongst the kids, e.g. throwing rocks or bottles at the cops when they showed up.
Bottom line: the argument/fight between the two adults that sparked the initial call to the cops (that began, of course, with racial slurs and a gendered slap to the face of the woman who’d organized the party) and the potential unauthorized pool use were low stakes.
The cops could have easily dealt with the latter by saying, “Okay, party’s over. Everyone who doesn’t live here, go on home now.” The former by interviewing the adults who’d actually called the cops and sorting it out.
Instead, the cops turned a low stakes situation into a Jim Crow re-enactment shitshow with a cast of traumatized children. How dare those black kids use the wrong pool. How dare they! For fucks sake.
posted by skye.dancer at 12:00 PM on June 9, 2015 [38 favorites]
There were no drugs or alcohol, no vandalism, no dangerous or illegal activity at the party. It was broad daylight. There were no weapons (other than the cops' weapons). No one was operating vehicles/bikes/skateboards unsafely, recklessly, or destructively. The kids were (to my eye anyway) quite cooperative for teenagers. There were no agitators amongst the kids, e.g. throwing rocks or bottles at the cops when they showed up.
Bottom line: the argument/fight between the two adults that sparked the initial call to the cops (that began, of course, with racial slurs and a gendered slap to the face of the woman who’d organized the party) and the potential unauthorized pool use were low stakes.
The cops could have easily dealt with the latter by saying, “Okay, party’s over. Everyone who doesn’t live here, go on home now.” The former by interviewing the adults who’d actually called the cops and sorting it out.
Instead, the cops turned a low stakes situation into a Jim Crow re-enactment shitshow with a cast of traumatized children. How dare those black kids use the wrong pool. How dare they! For fucks sake.
posted by skye.dancer at 12:00 PM on June 9, 2015 [38 favorites]
There were no drugs or alcohol, no vandalism, no dangerous or illegal activity at the party.
Has there been any video of the actual party? I've heard [insert grain of salt here] that there were dozens of party crashers, underage drinking and drug use and, unspecified, "assaults" on security. I'd be curious to see video from the party to see if there's any validity to this or was it just typical teenager shit being turned into something more sinister to support a "rampaging thug" narrative.
posted by MikeMc at 12:19 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Has there been any video of the actual party? I've heard [insert grain of salt here] that there were dozens of party crashers, underage drinking and drug use and, unspecified, "assaults" on security. I'd be curious to see video from the party to see if there's any validity to this or was it just typical teenager shit being turned into something more sinister to support a "rampaging thug" narrative.
posted by MikeMc at 12:19 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've heard [insert grain of salt here] that there were dozens of party crashers, underage drinking and drug use and, unspecified, "assaults" on security. I'd be curious to see video from the party to see if there's any validity to this or was it just typical teenager shit being turned into something more sinister to support a "rampaging thug" narrative.
What you described sounds like typical teenager shit to me.
posted by maxsparber at 12:32 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
What you described sounds like typical teenager shit to me.
posted by maxsparber at 12:32 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've heard [insert grain of salt here] that there were dozens of party crashers, underage drinking and drug use and, unspecified, "assaults" on security.
You know, even if there were such reports from bystanders, it's my understanding that the cops got called out about a fight and misuse of the pool. So it's unclear to me that they would have had access to that information before they got to the scene. And once the cops got on site, they should have been professional enough to make the assessment that the situation appeared to be stable and the danger, minimal. Except, of course, as we've seen, the stakes really weren't low at all for them.
posted by skye.dancer at 12:39 PM on June 9, 2015
You know, even if there were such reports from bystanders, it's my understanding that the cops got called out about a fight and misuse of the pool. So it's unclear to me that they would have had access to that information before they got to the scene. And once the cops got on site, they should have been professional enough to make the assessment that the situation appeared to be stable and the danger, minimal. Except, of course, as we've seen, the stakes really weren't low at all for them.
posted by skye.dancer at 12:39 PM on June 9, 2015
I've heard [insert grain of salt here] that there were dozens of party crashers, underage drinking and drug use and, unspecified, "assaults" on security
Which is why the iconic image from this whole thing is a couple of big white guys--one of whom isn't even a LEO--literally keeping black children down when they obviously have no drugs or alcohol or weapons on them.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:43 PM on June 9, 2015 [9 favorites]
Which is why the iconic image from this whole thing is a couple of big white guys--one of whom isn't even a LEO--literally keeping black children down when they obviously have no drugs or alcohol or weapons on them.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:43 PM on June 9, 2015 [9 favorites]
The Washington Post has a meh story covering what "both sides" say what happened at the pool party. It contains this gem of a paragraph:
posted by peeedro at 12:49 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
On conservative blogs, teenagers on the video were referred to as “thugs,” and suggestive pictures from their social media accounts were shared online. Rumors swirled that teens had returned overnight to kick in neighborhood doors and steal cars, though McKinney Police Department statements about the incident have made no mention of such allegations.So I think the issue is that for some people a black teenager is defined as a rampaging thug by just entering their white space.
posted by peeedro at 12:49 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
I've heard [insert grain of salt here] that there were dozens of party crashers, underage drinking and drug use and, unspecified, "assaults" on security. I'd be curious to see video from the party to see if there's any validity to this or was it just typical teenager shit being turned into something more sinister
The 'party crasher' thing - there's no video, but it does seem likely that this was an authorized and against (very uptight) HOA rules party - a open-to-the-public, taking-money type of pool party. The HOA does allow events at their facilities - but only very specific rules, and they charge over 200$. It also, most importantly, notes a limit of 20 guests - which the party is said by most onlookers to have been well over. They also offer for resident perusal a hilariously whitebread newsletter which, on page 4, talks about pool rules - apparently it's a gatecard, keycard access-only thing with a 10$ charge for the keycard. This newsletter, btw, is worth reading for the soulsucking horror of HOAs - including weekly motherfucking property inspections to see if people are trimming their shrubs. The Root writes:
So I have to revise my initial - it was completely within the rights of the HOA to ask the teenagers to leave, and to call the cops if the teens wouldn't listen to the security guard.
That said, regardless of why the cops were called, there was completely no reason to put a knee in the back of a teenager who maybe weighed 100 pounds soaking wet.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
The 'party crasher' thing - there's no video, but it does seem likely that this was an authorized and against (very uptight) HOA rules party - a open-to-the-public, taking-money type of pool party. The HOA does allow events at their facilities - but only very specific rules, and they charge over 200$. It also, most importantly, notes a limit of 20 guests - which the party is said by most onlookers to have been well over. They also offer for resident perusal a hilariously whitebread newsletter which, on page 4, talks about pool rules - apparently it's a gatecard, keycard access-only thing with a 10$ charge for the keycard. This newsletter, btw, is worth reading for the soulsucking horror of HOAs - including weekly motherfucking property inspections to see if people are trimming their shrubs. The Root writes:
Tatiana Rhodes, a 19-year-old McKinney resident, reportedly planned the event, which, Heavy notes, was advertised on social media. According to the flier, a group calling itself Dimepiece X Twinzz Promotions was listed as the host of the pool party, which was scheduled from 4:30 to 10 p.m. The event was deejayed by DJ Reign, a Dallas DJ who’s listed on his Twitter account as CEO of EventsHavoc!Rhodes has pics and flyers on her twitter (openly, not doxxed) advertising - from food sold at the party to presales for her next event. Hashtags for the party were created - #dimepiececookout - weeks prior to the event.
So I have to revise my initial - it was completely within the rights of the HOA to ask the teenagers to leave, and to call the cops if the teens wouldn't listen to the security guard.
That said, regardless of why the cops were called, there was completely no reason to put a knee in the back of a teenager who maybe weighed 100 pounds soaking wet.
posted by corb at 12:54 PM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
...seriously, this newsletter has a big page for 'Compliance Update'. What the everloving fuck, HOAs.
posted by corb at 12:56 PM on June 9, 2015
posted by corb at 12:56 PM on June 9, 2015
I don't think anybody is taking issue with the idea that the teens were asked to leave. I think it was the one-man police riot that is the issue.
posted by maxsparber at 12:58 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 12:58 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Which is why the iconic image from this whole thing is a couple of big white guys--one of whom isn't even a LEO-
When I first saw the video the first question that popped into my head was "WTF is up with the guy with beer gut and the jorts?" . Having a teen child, and another who was a teen a few short years ago, I got really pissed when I saw this guy in action. There were cops on the scene, did they ask you to help? No? Sit the fuck down then. I know from experience (both my own and my son's) that teens, boys in particular, can be rowdy and annoying but HOA vigilantes really chap my hide (yet another reason I'll never buy into a HOA community).
posted by MikeMc at 12:58 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
When I first saw the video the first question that popped into my head was "WTF is up with the guy with beer gut and the jorts?" . Having a teen child, and another who was a teen a few short years ago, I got really pissed when I saw this guy in action. There were cops on the scene, did they ask you to help? No? Sit the fuck down then. I know from experience (both my own and my son's) that teens, boys in particular, can be rowdy and annoying but HOA vigilantes really chap my hide (yet another reason I'll never buy into a HOA community).
posted by MikeMc at 12:58 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
If the party was violating HOA rules merely by existing or having too many invited attendees, the issue was with the organizer, not the partygoers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
HOAs are what you set up when you want to micromanage the race and class of your neighbors, but you are not allowed to have racially restrictive covenants anymore. They're pretty much guaranteed to be powerhungry racists.
posted by fifthrider at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by fifthrider at 1:02 PM on June 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
I don't really have a problem with the argument that aspects of the party weren't in accordance with the rules and that there were a fair number of unauthorized kids there. I do feel certain that this can't have been the first time a local teen has had held a big pool party with disallowed DJs and unauthorized guests and I have zero doubt that the heightened community and police reaction was because of racism.
But, in the end, that's not really important. It's a bunch of teens doing the things that teens do. Neighbors call the police about large teen parties, there are unruly parties at the local parks, whatever -- this is part of everyday neighborhood policing. When the police respond to something like this in a way that a) is racially incredibly asymmetric and b) with a high level of aggression and force, that's a problem and inexcusable for what is a regular, low-stakes, teens-being-teens thing. It just doesn't matter that the pool party broke the rules and there were a lot of unauthorized guests. That's no excuse for the response and so it's irrelevant.
But we're just having the same discussion we always have, where people use anything and everything they can to blame victims of police violence for what's been done to them.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:04 PM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
But, in the end, that's not really important. It's a bunch of teens doing the things that teens do. Neighbors call the police about large teen parties, there are unruly parties at the local parks, whatever -- this is part of everyday neighborhood policing. When the police respond to something like this in a way that a) is racially incredibly asymmetric and b) with a high level of aggression and force, that's a problem and inexcusable for what is a regular, low-stakes, teens-being-teens thing. It just doesn't matter that the pool party broke the rules and there were a lot of unauthorized guests. That's no excuse for the response and so it's irrelevant.
But we're just having the same discussion we always have, where people use anything and everything they can to blame victims of police violence for what's been done to them.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:04 PM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
The 'party crasher' thing - there's no video, but blah blah blah
Oh my god who caaaaaaares
posted by zombieflanders at 1:05 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
Oh my god who caaaaaaares
posted by zombieflanders at 1:05 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
the "and they returned to vandalize and kick doors and crash cars!!" comes directly from some of the white agitators in the video/their friends and the tale of the next night party grows bigger and crazier every time i see someone from the neighborhood post it on facebook. by week's end i suspect they'll accuse these kids of murdering dragons and stealing the gold. also they never explain why they're sure that these kids are the same kids besides their skin color.
posted by nadawi at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2015 [19 favorites]
“Our Segregated Summers,” Jamelle Bouie, Slate, 09 June 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 1:10 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 1:10 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I did not read every comment (There's a lot of them), and this has probably already been said. But, just to reiterate: there has been much discussion all over the web about who was to blame for the mayhem. That is not the point. The cop behaved inappropriately. There was no reason to pull a gun. Anybody who tries to enter the police force should be screened for any Rambo-like tendencies and if those tendencies are detected, those people should be denied.
posted by rankfreudlite at 1:56 PM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by rankfreudlite at 1:56 PM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
There was no reason to pull a gun.
No, but that sweet, sweet Ninja-like shoulder roll was totally on point.
posted by MikeMc at 2:16 PM on June 9, 2015
No, but that sweet, sweet Ninja-like shoulder roll was totally on point.
posted by MikeMc at 2:16 PM on June 9, 2015
The pool is temporarily closed for treatment. Why does this come to mind? I am hopeless...
posted by Chuffy at 2:37 PM on June 9, 2015
posted by Chuffy at 2:37 PM on June 9, 2015
Mod note: A couple comments deleted. rankfreudlite, second amendment stuff is a derail in this thread, please stop posting it. Comments about moderation go to the contact form, not in the thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:49 PM on June 9, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:49 PM on June 9, 2015
cpl tuck&roll has resigned
Well, that's one small positive. I wonder if he's going to continue to train police at his side job, though?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:38 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, that's one small positive. I wonder if he's going to continue to train police at his side job, though?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:38 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Soon to be a very rich man.
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
he's keeping his pension, the internal affairs investigation is halted because he quit, and there's no official record or any wrongdoing on his part. he'll likely take a a couple months off and then go over to one of the other suburbs and get a job with their police force.
posted by nadawi at 3:55 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 3:55 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
New horrific police beating in California
The police chief said he “absolutely” had concerns about what the video footage showed but urged people to bear in mind what Velasco was alleged to have done beforehand and “start making sense how we got there”.
Of course, of course.
posted by Artw at 4:02 PM on June 9, 2015
“Why Cops Attack Black Teens at Pool Parties [Ed. Cartoon],” Matt Bors, In These Times, 09 June 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 4:09 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 4:09 PM on June 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
One officer acted within policy in Ezell Ford shooting, the other did not, according to Police Commission
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:21 PM on June 9, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:21 PM on June 9, 2015
In my mind, he did a barrel roll as he entered the room to give his resignation to the committee.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by AGameOfMoans at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2015 [20 favorites]
The Counted was linked in the Guardian article that Artw shared. It's a list of people the police have killed this year, broken down by state, race, etc. If you click on the individual people, it gives more information about each one.
posted by Weeping_angel at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Weeping_angel at 5:11 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
it's interesting to me that this started with a call to "go back to section 8" since the woman who screamed those words is seemingly in charge of approving or turning down home loans. this is what we talk about when when we talk about racism being systemic - from the lowest level, the gatekeepers are carrying around racist assumptions and of course that affects the choices they make on who to let through and who to keep marginalized.
posted by nadawi at 5:16 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 5:16 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
I know some people out there can't see past race. But to me, from the video itself and the post-incident interviews, this was a bunch of rosy-cheeked clean-cut kids. The two boys on the ground getting the spittle flecked rant were downright adorable. The girl who threw the party's mother was there, for crying out loud. These are the type of kids who go to parties with adult supervision. One of the kids interviewed even mentioned that they were playing clean versions of rap songs.
The real headlines should have been "Brutal Cops break up freshman nerd gathering"
I don't mean to make light of a serious problem. But, c'mon!
posted by billyfleetwood at 5:33 PM on June 9, 2015 [23 favorites]
The real headlines should have been "Brutal Cops break up freshman nerd gathering"
I don't mean to make light of a serious problem. But, c'mon!
posted by billyfleetwood at 5:33 PM on June 9, 2015 [23 favorites]
Related, and noticed in the sidebar of one of the above links:
NYPD chief Bratton says there aren't more black NYPD officers because "too many black men have spent time in jail."
FLAMES
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:07 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
NYPD chief Bratton says there aren't more black NYPD officers because "too many black men have spent time in jail."
FLAMES
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:07 PM on June 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
I wonder if he's going to continue to train police at his side job, though?
If so, I hope in every class some smartass won't stop asking when he's going to show them how to do a barrel roll properly.
posted by ctmf at 7:18 PM on June 9, 2015 [9 favorites]
If so, I hope in every class some smartass won't stop asking when he's going to show them how to do a barrel roll properly.
posted by ctmf at 7:18 PM on June 9, 2015 [9 favorites]
Police Chief Greg Conley said. "He came into the call out of control, and as the video shows, was out of control during the incident."
Sounds like the barrel roll clinched it.
posted by JackFlash at 8:10 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sounds like the barrel roll clinched it.
posted by JackFlash at 8:10 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is anyone defending the actions of Casebolt?
Also, people are saying he keeps his pension. Has he done twenty years already?
posted by corb at 8:52 PM on June 9, 2015
Also, people are saying he keeps his pension. Has he done twenty years already?
posted by corb at 8:52 PM on June 9, 2015
Can't say it enough, so grateful to the kid who took that video.
posted by sweetkid at 8:54 PM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 8:54 PM on June 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
Er, erase most of my last. I checked Metafilter before Facebook. Apparently there's a GoFundMe for Casebolt.
posted by corb at 8:59 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 8:59 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Gross.
posted by sweetkid at 9:00 PM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 9:00 PM on June 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
> FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
This one actually sounds way better in context:
This one actually sounds way better in context:
Bratton blamed the “unfortunate consequences” of an explosion in “stop, question and frisk” incidents that caught many young men of color in the net by resulting in them being given a summons for a minor misdemeanor. As a result, Bratton said, the “population pool [of eligible non-white officers] is much smaller than it might ordinarily have been”.posted by savetheclocktower at 9:06 PM on June 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
And yet Bratton always was and remains an advocate of broken windows policing, which is only a smidge less awful than (and of course related to) NYC's stop and frisk policy. His statements would be a great deal less troubling if they were accompanied by a repudiation of broken windows.
posted by Mavri at 9:13 PM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 9:13 PM on June 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
This one actually sounds way better in context:
How is that better? That's basically "We're racist and we deliberately disproportionately target young black men and charge them with bogus crimes."
Maybe young black men don't want to be cops because they don't want to work for and with the racist assholes who harassed and persecuted them as teenagers.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:14 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
How is that better? That's basically "We're racist and we deliberately disproportionately target young black men and charge them with bogus crimes."
Maybe young black men don't want to be cops because they don't want to work for and with the racist assholes who harassed and persecuted them as teenagers.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:14 PM on June 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
> How is that better? That's basically "We're racist and we deliberately disproportionately target young black men and charge them with bogus crimes."
It's not better to have happened, but it's better that he acknowledges it instead of putting his fingers in his ears.
Maybe young black men don't want to be cops because they don't want to work for and with the racist assholes who harassed and persecuted them as teenagers.
Indeed, and I think that has much more to do with their recruiting problems than criminal records among black men — since the same article points out that misdemeanors don't automatically disqualify someone from a police career.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:22 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's not better to have happened, but it's better that he acknowledges it instead of putting his fingers in his ears.
Maybe young black men don't want to be cops because they don't want to work for and with the racist assholes who harassed and persecuted them as teenagers.
Indeed, and I think that has much more to do with their recruiting problems than criminal records among black men — since the same article points out that misdemeanors don't automatically disqualify someone from a police career.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:22 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Breaking HOA rules is not breaking laws. FFS, cops.
posted by desuetude at 9:42 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by desuetude at 9:42 PM on June 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
from the New Times Rwanda
However, what takes the footage from the realm of merely disturbing to jaw-droppingly horrendous was seeing the same policeman manhandle a black girl in a bikini, throw her on the ground, place his knee on her small back and cuff her. All the while she cries and calls for her mother. If you think that's the worst of it, you'd be wrong.
When a group of her friends saw her distress and tried to come to her rescue, the madman pulled out his firearm, cocked it and pointed it in their direction.
“Oh no, I silently screamed, please don’t shoot them in the back”! For a second I thought I would see more black men get killed right on camera. Thankfully, he didn't pull the trigger and simply went back to berating the children sitting in the grass.
If you’ve followed the news, you’ll know that this incident is simply the latest one in an anus horribilis (horrible year) for black people in the United States.
Sadly, however, black people getting mistreated, unjustly jailed and shot like dogs is par for the course as it pertains to their treatment by their government’s law enforcement from time immemorial. What gets my goat is that instead of dealing with their country’s own issues I see congressmen and women discuss countries that they have never visited and know nothing of. Just last month a congressional subcommittee met to discuss Rwanda’s human rights issues. The proceedings were a joke and so were the witnesses called.
posted by infini at 1:38 AM on June 10, 2015 [8 favorites]
However, what takes the footage from the realm of merely disturbing to jaw-droppingly horrendous was seeing the same policeman manhandle a black girl in a bikini, throw her on the ground, place his knee on her small back and cuff her. All the while she cries and calls for her mother. If you think that's the worst of it, you'd be wrong.
When a group of her friends saw her distress and tried to come to her rescue, the madman pulled out his firearm, cocked it and pointed it in their direction.
“Oh no, I silently screamed, please don’t shoot them in the back”! For a second I thought I would see more black men get killed right on camera. Thankfully, he didn't pull the trigger and simply went back to berating the children sitting in the grass.
If you’ve followed the news, you’ll know that this incident is simply the latest one in an anus horribilis (horrible year) for black people in the United States.
Sadly, however, black people getting mistreated, unjustly jailed and shot like dogs is par for the course as it pertains to their treatment by their government’s law enforcement from time immemorial. What gets my goat is that instead of dealing with their country’s own issues I see congressmen and women discuss countries that they have never visited and know nothing of. Just last month a congressional subcommittee met to discuss Rwanda’s human rights issues. The proceedings were a joke and so were the witnesses called.
posted by infini at 1:38 AM on June 10, 2015 [8 favorites]
Even more disturbing facts:
Federal court documents show that Casebolt and other officers were sued in 2008 in federal court for racial profiling, harassment, failure to render aid and sexual assault.
Albert E. Brown Jr. accused Casebolt of reaching into his “private area” and pulling his pants “down below ankles” during the traffic stop.
Brown was parked on the wrong side of a road in McKinney, according to the civil complaint. Casebolt told Brown he was going to write him a ticket for the traffic offense, but then said he saw two marijuana seeds and an open container in the car. Brown said Casebolt remarked about the “white girls” who were with him, made comments about him and his clothes, and then grabbed his private are and pulled his pants down.
Brown also claimed in the lawsuit that another officer, Lee Keith, slammed his head into the hood of the car repeatedly. He said Keith held him while Casebolt pulled his pants down. Another officer, who is not named in the lawsuit, allegedly spread his legs while one of the officers shined a flashlight in his anus.
Brown was arrested on charges of marijuana possession and attempting to take a weapon from an officer.
The civil case was dismissed by a federal judge in 2009 because the criminal charges against Brown were still pending. The judge said in his decision that the lawsuit could be re-filed if he was exonerated. The charges were eventually dismissed, but the civil case was never refiled by Brown.
Link here. Item #2.
This story gets more gross and horrifying by the day.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 4:26 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Federal court documents show that Casebolt and other officers were sued in 2008 in federal court for racial profiling, harassment, failure to render aid and sexual assault.
Albert E. Brown Jr. accused Casebolt of reaching into his “private area” and pulling his pants “down below ankles” during the traffic stop.
Brown was parked on the wrong side of a road in McKinney, according to the civil complaint. Casebolt told Brown he was going to write him a ticket for the traffic offense, but then said he saw two marijuana seeds and an open container in the car. Brown said Casebolt remarked about the “white girls” who were with him, made comments about him and his clothes, and then grabbed his private are and pulled his pants down.
Brown also claimed in the lawsuit that another officer, Lee Keith, slammed his head into the hood of the car repeatedly. He said Keith held him while Casebolt pulled his pants down. Another officer, who is not named in the lawsuit, allegedly spread his legs while one of the officers shined a flashlight in his anus.
Brown was arrested on charges of marijuana possession and attempting to take a weapon from an officer.
The civil case was dismissed by a federal judge in 2009 because the criminal charges against Brown were still pending. The judge said in his decision that the lawsuit could be re-filed if he was exonerated. The charges were eventually dismissed, but the civil case was never refiled by Brown.
Link here. Item #2.
This story gets more gross and horrifying by the day.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 4:26 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is anyone defending the actions of Casebolt?
A McKinney woman named Caseye Thompson wrote an essay-length Facebook post about the incident which has now been shared over 26,000 times. Here are points six and seven (out of ten). I've bolded some parts.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:30 AM on June 10, 2015 [15 favorites]
A McKinney woman named Caseye Thompson wrote an essay-length Facebook post about the incident which has now been shared over 26,000 times. Here are points six and seven (out of ten). I've bolded some parts.
6. The small portion of video that is circulating on the media outlets is a clip from a 7:20 minute video which also does not clearly portray the entire situation. There was mass chaos & a large crowd all around. When the responding officers got there they were massively unnumbered by a crowd of kids who were violent, refused to comply, began running & displayed a complete lack of respect for authority. What most people, who have been spoon fed garbage by the media, think is that a police officer used excessive force, drew his weapon unnecessarily & was a racist. Let's address racism first, it is a fact that most of the party goers were black. The people who were Tweeting the invites were black, a lot of their followers & people coming to the pool were black. So based upon the law of averages, yes black children are going to be detained. That's not racist, its just a fact, there were more black kids there. These officers were walking blindly into a hostile environment & their job was to protect people & restore order. Its very difficult to establish order when you have dozens of kids running around wildly, shouting, fighting & refusing to obey simple commands. When an officer asks you to leave, you leave. When he tells you to sit down, you sit. Once order has been established they will listen to you & sort things out. It's true, that is what they are trained to do. Just because they ask you to sit does not mean you are being arrested, but order had to be restored first. The police department had to call for additional units & back up assistance from the fire department because it was mass chaos & took at least 30 minutes to get things under control. This video & the brief clip being shown cannot possibly accurately capture the events that unfolded. The girl in the video was running her mouth & refused to leave the scene when directed to do so, several times. She was given every opportunity to comply, she didn't & when she continued ranting the officer went to detain her. At that point she is breaking the law by resisting & the officer did what he had to do. Of course he took her down, she should have left when she had the chance & stopped running her mouth. She wanted to act tough & grown. Guess what? Act grown, get treated grown, she didn't like that much & called for her Momma. If Momma had taught her to respect authority, she would have never been in this situation. With regard to the amount of force, more force was needed because she was fighting him. He followed protocol by putting her down & restraining her with his knee until she calmed down & stopped fighting. Again, none of this would have happened if she had just left.TL, DR: When a black child talks back to a white police officer, protocol is to push her head in the ground and rest your knees on her back. And those boys who protested her treatment? They could have formed an unruly mob and overpowered the cop at any time! He had to draw his weapon on those children. These unarmed young black teens are a potentially lethal threat who need to be forcefully taught to respect authority. There is nothing racist about that!
7. The issue of drawing his gun is being raised. He didn't just openly draw his gun & swing it around threatening "innocent" teens. While attempting to subdue the girl he was rushed by other teens including one who looks to be reaching behind him. The teen probably wasn't but remember this was all happening in real time with a very chaotic environment & the officer had a split second to make a decision. Those kids charging him could have overpowered him, mob mentality could have taken over, someone could have been hurt including those boys, the officer or innocent bystanders who were attempting to help. If I was being charged by two teenage boys in a large unruly crowd, you can bet your sweet a$$ I would have drawn my weapon too. There are two things to remember, 1. his finger was not even on the trigger he handled the gun safely & properly and 2. he reholstered it as soon as possible once the threat of immediate danger was gone. Please remember that these officers were trying to do their jobs without interference. I fully support the MPD & the actions taken on scene. Not for one minute do I think he used excessive force, nor was there police brutality. He did what he had to do in the moment to re-establish order & create a safe environment for everyone. They are there to protect & serve, their lives are put on the line every single day with situations most of us can only imagine.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:30 AM on June 10, 2015 [15 favorites]
Why the Shocking Video of the Police Attack on Black Kids at a Pool Shouldn’t Shock Us - a discussion of the history of racial discrimination and swimming pools.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:45 AM on June 10, 2015
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:45 AM on June 10, 2015
you’ll know that this incident is simply the latest one in an anus horribilis (horrible year)
Not quite, though I will go so far as to agree that Eric Casebolt is a horrible arsehole.
posted by flabdablet at 8:03 AM on June 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Not quite, though I will go so far as to agree that Eric Casebolt is a horrible arsehole.
posted by flabdablet at 8:03 AM on June 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is anyone defending the actions of Casebolt?
The entire right-wing media.
If Fox News covered the Birmingham protests.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:22 AM on June 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
The entire right-wing media.
If Fox News covered the Birmingham protests.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:22 AM on June 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Man, when Rwanda's response is "guys tone it down.."
Oh, the irony... this is to give some background to the Rwandan author's concerns about local police behaviour
Under this agreement, the United States will provide Rwanda with training and other support for Rwandan National Police forces
posted by infini at 9:12 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, the irony... this is to give some background to the Rwandan author's concerns about local police behaviour
Under this agreement, the United States will provide Rwanda with training and other support for Rwandan National Police forces
posted by infini at 9:12 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
“The Dark Side of McKinney, the 'Best Place to Live in America',” Olga Khazan, The Atlantic, 09 June 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 9:37 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 9:37 AM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Similar to the cartoon infini posted, I saw this one on twitter earlier.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:44 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:44 AM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
911 caller in Texas pool party incident was convicted of torturing animals. Describes some of what he had to say in an interview with Fox News.
posted by immlass at 11:47 AM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by immlass at 11:47 AM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Casebolt's attorney is having a press conference. So far pretty standard stuff about "having to leave his home" due to "threats", sad that his "lifelong dream of being a police officer is closed off to him now", etc. Issued a bland nothing apology as well.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:48 AM on June 10, 2015
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:48 AM on June 10, 2015
911 caller in Texas pool party incident was convicted of torturing animals
In addition to being animal killers and sounding racist as all get-out, the Toons also look like a couple of lying liars who like to tell lies:
In addition to being animal killers and sounding racist as all get-out, the Toons also look like a couple of lying liars who like to tell lies:
In his interview Monday night on Fox, Toon didn’t make clear that he was acquainted with the two women involved in the fight. “There was a fight between a young black girl and two middle-aged white females,” he said. “They were not [security guards]. One of them I know was a resident. The other one I believe was visiting a resident there.”posted by zombieflanders at 12:01 PM on June 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
On Fox, Toon also denied anyone making racist comments, saying that the teens were accusing the adult residents of racism for simply objecting to their boisterous behavior at the pool.
When asked by BuzzFeed News on Monday night whether she recalled her husband or anyone making any racist comments to the teens, Shannon Barber Toon said, “That’s where it’s a little fuzzy for me. I know there were people yelling at each other. The only racial thing I heard was spoken by some of the black girls inside the pool area saying, ‘They just want to kick us out because we black.’”
“I know I heard somebody say something about Section 8 housing,” she said. “But I don’t know who said it. I honestly don’t remember who said what.”
While refusing to provide contact information for her husband or acquaintances, Shannon Barber Toon said Tuesday “there is no way” her husband made the comments. Although she acknowledged she left before the fight broke out and had “no idea” whether her friends made racist comments, she said she “highly doubts” they made the remarks as they are “not racist in any stretch.”
Section 8 housing has been a thorny issue for the community, she said, due to proposals to bring public housing to Craig Ranch. “We hate it. We don’t want that. We moved here thinking we were moving to an upscale neighborhood,” Barber Toon said. “But it’s never been about race.”
toons's mother is a racist piece of shit who has had some really awful things to say about this whole ordeal. she thinks the girl deserved it for lacking respect and the cop was a-ok pulling the gun because his finger was off the trigger, he didn't really point it at anyone, and the children at the pool party might have been hiding guns. she is, as you imagine, a huge guns rights enthusiast who won't be going to toby keith's restaurant now that you can't bring guns in. she doesn't mention if it's ok for cops to constantly pull their weapons on her since they could have a reasonable suspicion that she's armed.
posted by nadawi at 12:11 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 12:11 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Who the fuck brings a gun to a pool party? Besides a cop? Are you going to wrap it in a towel when you go swimming? Is it a waterproof gun?
posted by desjardins at 12:15 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 12:15 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Is taht a gun in your swimsuit or are you just highly overdeveloped for a young adolescent child?"
posted by infini at 12:16 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 12:16 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
the same morons who bring assault rifles to target prolly.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2015
posted by poffin boffin at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2015
But wait, wouldn't someone in favor of gun rights be in favor of people at a pool party carrying guns? If you can't bring your guns to a pool party, what happens if a pool monster attacks??!?
posted by rtha at 12:30 PM on June 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by rtha at 12:30 PM on June 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
Who the fuck brings a gun to a pool party?
I daresay Paul Stanley brings his Love Gun to every pool party...
posted by MikeMc at 12:32 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I daresay Paul Stanley brings his Love Gun to every pool party...
posted by MikeMc at 12:32 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ironically the morons who bring assault rifles to target seem most likely to be the same morons who'd own a gun that could function underwater.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:34 PM on June 10, 2015
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:34 PM on June 10, 2015
yeah - there's always that disconnect - and the root of it can't be anything other than racism. the black man is the thing they're arming against, so their ideas about gun rights don't extend to black people.
posted by nadawi at 12:48 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 12:48 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'll give you my pool noodles. When you pry them from my wet, pruned fingers!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:53 PM on June 10, 2015
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:53 PM on June 10, 2015
Who the fuck brings a gun to a pool party?
And where the fuck do the cops think they're hiding them? The girls are in bikinis and swimsuits. The boys are wearing trunks.
posted by zarq at 12:55 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
And where the fuck do the cops think they're hiding them? The girls are in bikinis and swimsuits. The boys are wearing trunks.
posted by zarq at 12:55 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
> The girl in the video was running her mouth & refused to leave the scene when directed to do so, several times
I've been wondering about this. While I realize that police do have some latitude depending on the situation, is there any legal justification to order her to leave? She's on a public sidewalk, away from the police activity. I see a group of girls acting within their rights to peacefully assemble in a public place, observe the actions of a police officer, and speak their minds. Is there any possible justification to detain her to begin with?
posted by peeedro at 2:11 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been wondering about this. While I realize that police do have some latitude depending on the situation, is there any legal justification to order her to leave? She's on a public sidewalk, away from the police activity. I see a group of girls acting within their rights to peacefully assemble in a public place, observe the actions of a police officer, and speak their minds. Is there any possible justification to detain her to begin with?
posted by peeedro at 2:11 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
sad that his "lifelong dream of being a police officer is closed off to him now", etc.
Well, that's just too damn bad, but when you're a complete fuck-up who can't do a job right, you typically have to give up any dreams involving that job. I don't know why I'm supposed to have any sympathy for a racist fuck-up who can't do his job right and suffers the natural consequences.
That's all I can even say about this situation without totally losing it. So angry. So tired of this.
posted by palomar at 3:17 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, that's just too damn bad, but when you're a complete fuck-up who can't do a job right, you typically have to give up any dreams involving that job. I don't know why I'm supposed to have any sympathy for a racist fuck-up who can't do his job right and suffers the natural consequences.
That's all I can even say about this situation without totally losing it. So angry. So tired of this.
posted by palomar at 3:17 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Pater Aletheias - i don't know how you read through her whole screed to find just that stuff to post. i wouldn't have been able to. it's just sickening.
I saw it when it was "liked" and "shared" on Facebook by a person who was in my youth group once upon a time when I was a youth minister. Reading it is an act of penance for my failure to help her develop into a moral person with a sense of justice.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:24 PM on June 10, 2015 [29 favorites]
I saw it when it was "liked" and "shared" on Facebook by a person who was in my youth group once upon a time when I was a youth minister. Reading it is an act of penance for my failure to help her develop into a moral person with a sense of justice.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:24 PM on June 10, 2015 [29 favorites]
"I saw it when it was "liked" and "shared" on Facebook by a person who was in my youth group once upon a time when I was a youth minister. Reading it is an act of penance for my failure to help her develop into a moral person with a sense of justice."
That -- whatever it was -- and its 28fuckingthousand "likes" made me so angry that I'm extremely angry again now hours later just thinking about it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:04 PM on June 10, 2015
That -- whatever it was -- and its 28fuckingthousand "likes" made me so angry that I'm extremely angry again now hours later just thinking about it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:04 PM on June 10, 2015
You can tell the difference between people with legitimately-held pro-gun beliefs and power-fantasist paranoid racists with one easy question: "So, what do you think of the Black Panthers' Armed Self-Defense Movement?"
posted by KathrynT at 4:06 PM on June 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 4:06 PM on June 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
...sad that his "lifelong dream of being a police officer is closed off to him now", etc.
Good. He was criminally incompetent and dangerous to the public.
posted by zarq at 4:08 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Good. He was criminally incompetent and dangerous to the public.
posted by zarq at 4:08 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
...sad that his "lifelong dream of being a police officer is closed off to him now", etc.
He chose to resign. If he was innocent of any wrong doing, he should have stayed and let the disciplinary committee exonerate him. This press conference reaches a level of bullshit I've nor previously seen outside of a Bob Loblaw ad.
---
I think the assumption many wore people make is that black men are always armed. If they're not armed in life, the police can make sure they were armed after the police shoot them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:38 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
He chose to resign. If he was innocent of any wrong doing, he should have stayed and let the disciplinary committee exonerate him. This press conference reaches a level of bullshit I've nor previously seen outside of a Bob Loblaw ad.
---
I think the assumption many wore people make is that black men are always armed. If they're not armed in life, the police can make sure they were armed after the police shoot them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:38 PM on June 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
So far the rise of cell phone cameras hasn't brought us any more nessie or bigfoot sightings, but it has definitely exposed too many racist police to count.
posted by cell divide at 4:50 PM on June 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 4:50 PM on June 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
sad that his "lifelong dream of being a police officer is closed off to him now", etc.
He was a police officer. He managed to reach his lifelong dream, and then he found out he actually is bad at it.
posted by jeather at 5:07 PM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
He was a police officer. He managed to reach his lifelong dream, and then he found out he actually is bad at it.
posted by jeather at 5:07 PM on June 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
He was a police officer. He managed to reach his lifelong dream, and then he found out he actually is bad at it destroyed it entirely through his own actions by being a racist, violent asshole and beating up unarmed non-threatening children.
He wasn't just passively bad at it. He was deliberately bad at it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:14 PM on June 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
He wasn't just passively bad at it. He was deliberately bad at it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:14 PM on June 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think the assumption many wore people make is that black men are always armed.
No no no. Black men are DANGEROUS. They don't have to be armed to be dangerous out in cuckoo land. That's why you can shoot an unarmed black man and these people will still rush to defend the actions.
posted by Talez at 7:00 PM on June 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
No no no. Black men are DANGEROUS. They don't have to be armed to be dangerous out in cuckoo land. That's why you can shoot an unarmed black man and these people will still rush to defend the actions.
posted by Talez at 7:00 PM on June 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Fuck that guy, and fuck the police for actively inserting violence into communities rather than diffusing and preventing it.
Just watched this video, holy shit, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck these guys. Fuck these police...but increasingly, they're teaching us to say "fuck the police." Certainly fuck the police state and everyone who upholds it and repeats the whole "JUST LISTEN TO COPS ALWAYS" bullshit you see everywhere.
posted by aydeejones at 7:16 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just watched this video, holy shit, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck these guys. Fuck these police...but increasingly, they're teaching us to say "fuck the police." Certainly fuck the police state and everyone who upholds it and repeats the whole "JUST LISTEN TO COPS ALWAYS" bullshit you see everywhere.
posted by aydeejones at 7:16 PM on June 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Right wing media is on the attack with this one."
Ahhh, why did I read that? So when the guy first wrote the thing, he just wrote it with the assumption that all those people (you know which people) weren't invited. But then he has an addendum, where he says that some people were invited and many others weren't, he says that it's "unclear" whether the girl who organized it is a resident. But if he knew enough to know as much as he did when he wrote the addendum, then he should have known that the organizer, Tatyana Rhodes, is a resident. But, you know, that doesn't fit his assumptions and narrative.
Anyway, half the comments are just full-on blatant racism, which sort of contradicts the message of the article and, I suppose, the site about how this is all just left-wing media spin and racism isn't a factor at all. A commenter says that the reason why the cops focused on the black kids and not the white kids is because "white people will calm down and cooperate when the police arrive". So, see, racism isn't involved in this at all.
I swear to god, it's a damn good thing I don't, because if I had a rocket launcher, some son-of-a-bitch would die.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:46 PM on June 10, 2015
Ahhh, why did I read that? So when the guy first wrote the thing, he just wrote it with the assumption that all those people (you know which people) weren't invited. But then he has an addendum, where he says that some people were invited and many others weren't, he says that it's "unclear" whether the girl who organized it is a resident. But if he knew enough to know as much as he did when he wrote the addendum, then he should have known that the organizer, Tatyana Rhodes, is a resident. But, you know, that doesn't fit his assumptions and narrative.
Anyway, half the comments are just full-on blatant racism, which sort of contradicts the message of the article and, I suppose, the site about how this is all just left-wing media spin and racism isn't a factor at all. A commenter says that the reason why the cops focused on the black kids and not the white kids is because "white people will calm down and cooperate when the police arrive". So, see, racism isn't involved in this at all.
I swear to god, it's a damn good thing I don't, because if I had a rocket launcher, some son-of-a-bitch would die.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:46 PM on June 10, 2015
From the that same article:
[my emphasis]The late Derrick Bell coined The Five Rules of Racial Standing to describe the circumstances in which blacks can be heard. This article is a pitch-perfect example of Rule Number Four:
We told you of one resident’s account, Benet Embry, above, a black resident who said the incident had nothing to do with race.
[my emphasis]The late Derrick Bell coined The Five Rules of Racial Standing to describe the circumstances in which blacks can be heard. This article is a pitch-perfect example of Rule Number Four:
When a black person or group makes a statement or takes an action that the white community or vocal components thereof deem "outrageous," the latter will actively recruit blacks willing to refute the statement or condemn the action. Blacks who respond to the call to condemnation will receive superstanding status. The blacks who refuse to be recruited will be interpreted as endorsing the statements and action and may suffer political or economic reprisals.posted by Joe in Australia at 2:23 AM on June 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
In my sphere of conservative associations on FB, people have really pounced on the following narrative:
1) This couldn't have been about race, because Benet Embry and other black people in the neighborhood said it wasn't.
2) Since there was a respectable black resident, certainly, the western part of McKinney couldn't have any race issues. It's a diverse community.
3) The pool partygoers were certainly outsiders who stormed the gates, were totally unruly, and police action was necessary to prevent violence against community and property.
I am just...I just can't. There is ALWAYS a counternarrative like this. Every time. There's no getting to people, because there is ALWAYS a counternarrative, and as it is developed, people grab it as if it was the most natural thing. "Let's wait for all the facts" seems synonymous with, "Let's wait for any narrative that continually and universally justifies poor treatment of minorities -- because even though that's what it appears to be, it's actually just logical "self-defense" or "protection of property".
posted by subversiveasset at 4:37 AM on June 11, 2015 [12 favorites]
1) This couldn't have been about race, because Benet Embry and other black people in the neighborhood said it wasn't.
2) Since there was a respectable black resident, certainly, the western part of McKinney couldn't have any race issues. It's a diverse community.
3) The pool partygoers were certainly outsiders who stormed the gates, were totally unruly, and police action was necessary to prevent violence against community and property.
I am just...I just can't. There is ALWAYS a counternarrative like this. Every time. There's no getting to people, because there is ALWAYS a counternarrative, and as it is developed, people grab it as if it was the most natural thing. "Let's wait for all the facts" seems synonymous with, "Let's wait for any narrative that continually and universally justifies poor treatment of minorities -- because even though that's what it appears to be, it's actually just logical "self-defense" or "protection of property".
posted by subversiveasset at 4:37 AM on June 11, 2015 [12 favorites]
I think I'm getting to the point where I kind of appreciate the folks who are at least open about their desire to return to the Jim Crow era. Like this charmer.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:43 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:43 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
police action was necessary to prevent violence against community and property.
i have seen this so many times and it pains me that these racists and racist-sympathizers can't see (don't care?) what they've just said. white women hurled racist abuse and slapped a young woman, 911 was called, a cop brutalized a young girl, pulled a gun on boys who didn't even complete the motion of trying to protect her, other cops and civilians joined in - ALL of this was about the protection of property, none of this was about protection of people. these people are really out here saying that the flower bushes by the pool are more valuable than these children's well being. i'm betting if cpl. tuck&roll had actually killed one of these kids, these assholes would be supporting that too...all for property.
one day the reckoning will come for white people and we will deserve it.
posted by nadawi at 7:03 AM on June 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
i have seen this so many times and it pains me that these racists and racist-sympathizers can't see (don't care?) what they've just said. white women hurled racist abuse and slapped a young woman, 911 was called, a cop brutalized a young girl, pulled a gun on boys who didn't even complete the motion of trying to protect her, other cops and civilians joined in - ALL of this was about the protection of property, none of this was about protection of people. these people are really out here saying that the flower bushes by the pool are more valuable than these children's well being. i'm betting if cpl. tuck&roll had actually killed one of these kids, these assholes would be supporting that too...all for property.
one day the reckoning will come for white people and we will deserve it.
posted by nadawi at 7:03 AM on June 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
I see why it can't be simultaneously true that: (1) there were possibly legitimate complaints about having a big party in the community pool but; (2) this one policeman was totally out of control in an unacceptable way, whatever anyone thinks about point 1.
I think the liberal/progressive "side" too often gets sucked into litigating the background of the story rather than staying focused on the obvious misconduct that is unacceptable whatever one thinks of the background issues. I think this falls right into the tactics of the Fox News crowd, which is to litigate the background issues like "who made the first nasty comment?," which are inherently unresolvable because there will be endless eyewitness/factual disagreements, taking the focus off the police conduct.
posted by Mid at 7:09 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the liberal/progressive "side" too often gets sucked into litigating the background of the story rather than staying focused on the obvious misconduct that is unacceptable whatever one thinks of the background issues. I think this falls right into the tactics of the Fox News crowd, which is to litigate the background issues like "who made the first nasty comment?," which are inherently unresolvable because there will be endless eyewitness/factual disagreements, taking the focus off the police conduct.
posted by Mid at 7:09 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
also, that "charmer" that Pater Aletheias linked to - she's a teacher. in similar news, this is a school principal who lost his job for stating his fucked up opinions. here's hoping she follows him to the unemployment line soon.
posted by nadawi at 7:10 AM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:10 AM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
if we're focusing solely on the obvious misconduct, that net is larger than one out of control cop - it also includes the adults who started this (including the animal torturer who called 911), the cops who didn't report his out of control actions, and the civilian men who milled around and gave aid to the cops by laying their hands on children. just focusing on the one cop who quickly resigned gives everyone an out and changes nothing in the long run.
posted by nadawi at 7:16 AM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:16 AM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I get that, but I guess I am skeptical that anything really changes by the shout-fests that these things become about who was right and who was wrong in the initial events leading up to the part we see on the video. I think there is a real power in saying: I don't care what you think those kids did, nothing you are saying would justify the police conduct.
posted by Mid at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Mid at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
i don't see how that disagrees with anything i just said - except, on your last sentence - "i don't care what you think those kids did, nothing you are saying would justify the adults', including the police's, misconduct."
posted by nadawi at 7:45 AM on June 11, 2015
posted by nadawi at 7:45 AM on June 11, 2015
I think there is a real power in saying: I don't care what you think those kids did, nothing you are saying would justify the police conduct.
My experience on FB suggests there's some validity to this.
I normally steer well clear of commenting on incidents like this, the same way I would at a dinner party, and even when I have commented in the past, I try not to comment on things friends of friends have posted.
But I've just seen to many "Let's wait for all the facts" and "Cops have a really hard job, and I'm glad they did what they did" posts to let this one slide, so I've been repudiating people with what you say above: No matter what led to the cops being there, no matter what the teenagers were doing or saying, nothing justifies Cpl Casebolt's treatment of that young girl.
I've even let the gun waving slide -- I no longer have the strength to fight back against that; apparently America loves the fact that police are quick to draw and use weapons against black males.
Some friends of friends have doubled down on the stupid, but more than a few have walked back their jut-jawed, "I'll say it even if the liberals won't: those kids were out of control and the police did the right thing" stances after I point out how wrong Casebolt and the unidentified civilian male were to treat that young lady in that way.
I'm also going to start sharing this article: For Black Women, Police Brutality and Sexual Harassment Often Go Hand in Hand.
posted by lord_wolf at 7:51 AM on June 11, 2015 [12 favorites]
My experience on FB suggests there's some validity to this.
I normally steer well clear of commenting on incidents like this, the same way I would at a dinner party, and even when I have commented in the past, I try not to comment on things friends of friends have posted.
But I've just seen to many "Let's wait for all the facts" and "Cops have a really hard job, and I'm glad they did what they did" posts to let this one slide, so I've been repudiating people with what you say above: No matter what led to the cops being there, no matter what the teenagers were doing or saying, nothing justifies Cpl Casebolt's treatment of that young girl.
I've even let the gun waving slide -- I no longer have the strength to fight back against that; apparently America loves the fact that police are quick to draw and use weapons against black males.
Some friends of friends have doubled down on the stupid, but more than a few have walked back their jut-jawed, "I'll say it even if the liberals won't: those kids were out of control and the police did the right thing" stances after I point out how wrong Casebolt and the unidentified civilian male were to treat that young lady in that way.
I'm also going to start sharing this article: For Black Women, Police Brutality and Sexual Harassment Often Go Hand in Hand.
posted by lord_wolf at 7:51 AM on June 11, 2015 [12 favorites]
I think I'm getting to the point where I kind of appreciate the folks who are at least open about their desire to return to the Jim Crow era. Like this charmer.
I love the way this lady makes it sound as if she's super brave to state her racist views, as if a white person taking the "Actually, it's all the black peoples fault" is somehow an unusual, daring position, rather than just par for the course.
posted by The Gooch at 8:32 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]
I love the way this lady makes it sound as if she's super brave to state her racist views, as if a white person taking the "Actually, it's all the black peoples fault" is somehow an unusual, daring position, rather than just par for the course.
posted by The Gooch at 8:32 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]
That's almost always the structure. Racists always seem to think their are brave truth tellers of a fact that we all know, but is being suppressed by a culture of political correctness.
You'll find few people who actually see themselves as racist. That's the perniciousness of it. We tend to focus on the vanguard, the swastika-tattooed fringe that is proudly racist, and forget that the real issue is that there are people like the woman who told her neighbor, a teenage girl, to go back to Section 8 housing, who also happens to to have a hand in loans for mortgage lending.
That kind of subterranean racism, which doesn't even know itself to be racism, can cause more damage than anything else.
posted by maxsparber at 8:44 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]
You'll find few people who actually see themselves as racist. That's the perniciousness of it. We tend to focus on the vanguard, the swastika-tattooed fringe that is proudly racist, and forget that the real issue is that there are people like the woman who told her neighbor, a teenage girl, to go back to Section 8 housing, who also happens to to have a hand in loans for mortgage lending.
That kind of subterranean racism, which doesn't even know itself to be racism, can cause more damage than anything else.
posted by maxsparber at 8:44 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]
I love the way this lady makes it sound as if she's super brave to state her racist views,
Also par for the course in conservative circles. They like to make it sound as if they're daringly speaking a truth no one else would say, out of fear of being shunned by polite society. It's the same warped thinking that gave us the mythical War on Christmas, (where 71% of the US population is apparently threatened by someone wishing them "Happy Holidays",) and the War against Same Sex Marriage (where 96.6% of the US population is somehow threatened by two people falling in love with each other and getting married.)
If we were being charitable, we could call it insecurity. But that's not what the problem is. It's a majority group who has a great deal of power in our society, trying to tighten their grip on their own privilege. They drum up sympathy from their fellow members by casting themselves as oppressed victims and screaming about their rights. Which aren't being infringed upon.
Progress can be threatening to the powerful.
posted by zarq at 8:50 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]
Also par for the course in conservative circles. They like to make it sound as if they're daringly speaking a truth no one else would say, out of fear of being shunned by polite society. It's the same warped thinking that gave us the mythical War on Christmas, (where 71% of the US population is apparently threatened by someone wishing them "Happy Holidays",) and the War against Same Sex Marriage (where 96.6% of the US population is somehow threatened by two people falling in love with each other and getting married.)
If we were being charitable, we could call it insecurity. But that's not what the problem is. It's a majority group who has a great deal of power in our society, trying to tighten their grip on their own privilege. They drum up sympathy from their fellow members by casting themselves as oppressed victims and screaming about their rights. Which aren't being infringed upon.
Progress can be threatening to the powerful.
posted by zarq at 8:50 AM on June 11, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think the liberal/progressive "side" too often gets sucked into litigating the background of the story rather than staying focused on the obvious misconduct that is unacceptable
We're pretty focused on Officer McRollsAround and his obviously unacceptable misconduct.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:47 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
We're pretty focused on Officer McRollsAround and his obviously unacceptable misconduct.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:47 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just had an unrelated facebook argument this week that exemplified what is going on with the whole It's-Not-About-Race-Except-It-Really-Is. I am a member of a neighborhood group in a community I want to move to. It's a fairly liberal area, which is why I want to move there. And yet, earlier this week, someone posted about two suspicious looking black kids who were walking in an alley and cut through someone's yard. Be on the lookout, it said.
I tried to talk about how that is a problem, and how nothing suspicious occurred other than WWB. And I remind you that this is a fairly liberal neighborhood. No one was interested in considering the possibility that they were part of the problem. The responses I got were along the lines of "We understand what you're saying, are well versed in biases, and yet Bob here is not a racist so that couldn't be what's happening." Mind you, I and the very small number of dissenters never called anyone racist, only that it's biases like that that ended up calling the cops and sending out an "alert" when there were black kids out of place.
And that made me very sad. Sad that people who were even generally aware of these types of racial issues refused to consider it could be happening in their own back yard by their own actions. We've got such a long way to go that I can't even imagine it possible to break that barrier down.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:24 AM on June 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
I tried to talk about how that is a problem, and how nothing suspicious occurred other than WWB. And I remind you that this is a fairly liberal neighborhood. No one was interested in considering the possibility that they were part of the problem. The responses I got were along the lines of "We understand what you're saying, are well versed in biases, and yet Bob here is not a racist so that couldn't be what's happening." Mind you, I and the very small number of dissenters never called anyone racist, only that it's biases like that that ended up calling the cops and sending out an "alert" when there were black kids out of place.
And that made me very sad. Sad that people who were even generally aware of these types of racial issues refused to consider it could be happening in their own back yard by their own actions. We've got such a long way to go that I can't even imagine it possible to break that barrier down.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:24 AM on June 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
I see why it can't be simultaneously true that: (1) there were possibly legitimate complaints about having a big party in the community pool but; (2) this one policeman was totally out of control in an unacceptable way, whatever anyone thinks about point 1.
I think this is a weird bit where people get sucked into 'respectability politics' - they respond to comments about respectability by arguing 'no, these people are totally respectable' (whether or not it's true) rather than saying 'no matter what they did, no one deserves to get treated like that.' Because they feel that it somehow lowers the case if the victim is also guilty of some wrongdoing? It doesn't.
It sounds totally like these teens were having an obnoxious, shitty, against-HOA rules party that was loud and annoying to everyone, and they got asked to leave and didn't want to - you know, like most teenagers have done in their lives. God knows I have. In fact mine definitely involved alcohol and probably ALSO some illegal drugs by at least SOMEONE in the crowd. In fact, I don't know many people who haven't been scattered by the police at a party at least once in their lives.
So the fuck what? Obnoxious, shitty, rule-breaking teens still don't deserve to get beaten up. It doesn't matter that now that we are no longer teenagers we find them irritating. Victims don't all have to be adorable angels in order for us to think that people shouldn't abuse them.
posted by corb at 11:26 AM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think this is a weird bit where people get sucked into 'respectability politics' - they respond to comments about respectability by arguing 'no, these people are totally respectable' (whether or not it's true) rather than saying 'no matter what they did, no one deserves to get treated like that.' Because they feel that it somehow lowers the case if the victim is also guilty of some wrongdoing? It doesn't.
It sounds totally like these teens were having an obnoxious, shitty, against-HOA rules party that was loud and annoying to everyone, and they got asked to leave and didn't want to - you know, like most teenagers have done in their lives. God knows I have. In fact mine definitely involved alcohol and probably ALSO some illegal drugs by at least SOMEONE in the crowd. In fact, I don't know many people who haven't been scattered by the police at a party at least once in their lives.
So the fuck what? Obnoxious, shitty, rule-breaking teens still don't deserve to get beaten up. It doesn't matter that now that we are no longer teenagers we find them irritating. Victims don't all have to be adorable angels in order for us to think that people shouldn't abuse them.
posted by corb at 11:26 AM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
Wait, that Jim Crow sympathizing woman is a teacher? So, does she literally not teach a single black student, or is she a complete idiot? Because if I were a parent of a black student in one of her classes, I'd be raining holy living hell down on that school. Oh wait, she used the #imnotracist hashtag. I guess it's ok, then. (Has any sort of #notracist hashtag ever been applied to something that was actually not racist? (Never mind, I know the answer to that...))
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:29 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:29 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
her town is 85% white and less than 2% black - so unlike the other racist educator, she's wasn't teaching in a majority minority school - and i say "wasn't" because she's just been fired.
posted by nadawi at 11:35 AM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:35 AM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Not just a teacher, but an elementary school teacher. She taught fourth grade.
This article has the school's policy wrt social media, her apology and the school's "she's been relieved of teaching duties" statement.
posted by zarq at 11:44 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
This article has the school's policy wrt social media, her apology and the school's "she's been relieved of teaching duties" statement.
posted by zarq at 11:44 AM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds totally like these teens were having an obnoxious, shitty, against-HOA rules party that was loud and annoying to everyone.
There is no evidence of this so why would you assume it? This is yet more of the middle road, see both sides, false equivalence BS. All we know is that one white woman got upset at black kids in the pool.
posted by JackFlash at 11:58 AM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
There is no evidence of this so why would you assume it? This is yet more of the middle road, see both sides, false equivalence BS. All we know is that one white woman got upset at black kids in the pool.
posted by JackFlash at 11:58 AM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
HOA violations are not police matters.
I think they can be when it comes to trespassing - they have the right to say who can come into their communal facilities and to kick people out if they don't want them. We can say they're assholes for it, but you generally have the legal right to tell people to leave your premises and expect them to do so, even if you're being a jerk about it.
However, it would have been really easy for cops to show up and calmly announce 'Hey, every teenager that doesn't have a pool card who is still here in the next ten minutes is going to get a $250 ticket for trespassing' (or whatever the fine is in McKinney). And then just start ticketing people.
(Also, on a side note, who the fuck puts on 30 pounds of body armor to respond to a pool party disturbance call? That's like the weight of SAPI plates. His biggest danger was falling in the pool and drowning.)
posted by corb at 12:56 PM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think they can be when it comes to trespassing - they have the right to say who can come into their communal facilities and to kick people out if they don't want them. We can say they're assholes for it, but you generally have the legal right to tell people to leave your premises and expect them to do so, even if you're being a jerk about it.
However, it would have been really easy for cops to show up and calmly announce 'Hey, every teenager that doesn't have a pool card who is still here in the next ten minutes is going to get a $250 ticket for trespassing' (or whatever the fine is in McKinney). And then just start ticketing people.
(Also, on a side note, who the fuck puts on 30 pounds of body armor to respond to a pool party disturbance call? That's like the weight of SAPI plates. His biggest danger was falling in the pool and drowning.)
posted by corb at 12:56 PM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
So, I get the comments about not getting into respectability politics, but at least with the conservatives folks I know on FB, their entire narrative really does hinge on the idea that if the teens were trespassing/jumping over fences/cursing/etc., then anything the police did is justified. So, it's not good enough just to say, "that is never justified no matter what" because then they just say, "So, you don't believe in personal accountability/you're not tough enough on crime."
posted by subversiveasset at 1:10 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by subversiveasset at 1:10 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Texas teacher loses job over racist fb post #herhashtags #arrgh
posted by maggieb at 1:28 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maggieb at 1:28 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
The silver lining to this giant cloud of shit is that the incident is like fly paper for racists.
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on June 11, 2015
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on June 11, 2015
Oh jeez, I was only worried that the teacher would treat her black students differently. I never even thought about how she could be passing her shitty views down to all of the kids. All parents should rain hellfire. I usually feel a little conflicted when people get fired for an ill conceived online post, but that was well beyond ill conceived. At least her apology was a real apology, and not some "if you were offended..." bullshit.
posted by Weeping_angel at 1:50 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Weeping_angel at 1:50 PM on June 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
At least her apology was a real apology, and not some "if you were offended..." bullshit.
Did we read the same apology? Read this quote from it (bolding mine):
I wouldn't trust her apology any further than I could throw her.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:53 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Did we read the same apology? Read this quote from it (bolding mine):
As an educator, I do teach my students about treating all people fairly and with dignity. I regret that my words are now calling that into question. I can, and will, use this situation as a real world example of how emotions and words can cause hurt to others. I am ashamed of my post. As I look back and reflect, I see how hurtful those words sounded.How hurtful those words "sounded". Not how hurtful those words were.
I wouldn't trust her apology any further than I could throw her.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:53 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm not saying the apology makes her a great person, or even that it's a great apology. She notably never says she was wrong or has changed her mind or anything like that. She's still a shitty racist. But at least it's "to anyone, of any race, that I have offended, I sincerely apologize" instead of "if anyone is offended, I apologize." And she does say that she's ashamed. There was just a lot less waffling not-my-fault bullshit than I was expecting.
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:00 PM on June 11, 2015
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:00 PM on June 11, 2015
Shaun King is saying on Twitter that an Ohio judge has found probable cause for murder charges in the killing of Tamir Rice. But prosecutors/police still have discretion on whether to act on that and arrest the murderers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:01 PM on June 11, 2015
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:01 PM on June 11, 2015
But that probably says more about all of the other shitty "apologies" than it does about hers being slightly less shitty...
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:01 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:01 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I do have to say, I'm enjoying the irony that this woman, as part of her Facebook tirade, implied that black people weren't very smart, while posting her rant on a publicly accessible website using her real name, making her easily identifiable due to her position working for a public school district, which just seems extraordinarily stupid.
posted by The Gooch at 2:05 PM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by The Gooch at 2:05 PM on June 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
From the "principal got fired" story:"Iber, who just finished his first year as the head of North Miami Senior, said he meant to write the comment anonymously."
so many warring thoughts! So, first of all, he clearly knew it was a fucked up thing to say, otherwise he wouldn't have "meant to write it anonymously." Second of all, in what world is that a defense? "Yeah, I am sorry that I made it clear that these are my opinions, that was dumb." Third, you are an EDUCATOR, why on EARTH would you think it would be a good example to say "It's OK to do inappropriate things as long as you successfully hide your identity"?! That's the message you want to send your students?
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
posted by KathrynT at 3:45 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
so many warring thoughts! So, first of all, he clearly knew it was a fucked up thing to say, otherwise he wouldn't have "meant to write it anonymously." Second of all, in what world is that a defense? "Yeah, I am sorry that I made it clear that these are my opinions, that was dumb." Third, you are an EDUCATOR, why on EARTH would you think it would be a good example to say "It's OK to do inappropriate things as long as you successfully hide your identity"?! That's the message you want to send your students?
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
posted by KathrynT at 3:45 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
and fourth - you're an educator of teenagers but you don't know that logging into a newspaper site with your facebook login will link your activity to your facebook account? that's some real lack of awareness.
posted by nadawi at 3:49 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 3:49 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I know I'm not supposed to read internet comments, but I'm weirdly fascinated by people who are able to keep these two thoughts in their head at the same time:
"That young girl talked back to a cop! She needs to respect his authority! She got what she deserved! Your words have consequences!"
"So what if a grown elementary teacher publicly expresses racist thoughts in violation of her contract? Her superiors shouldn't fire her! We have free speech in America!"
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:55 PM on June 11, 2015 [24 favorites]
"That young girl talked back to a cop! She needs to respect his authority! She got what she deserved! Your words have consequences!"
"So what if a grown elementary teacher publicly expresses racist thoughts in violation of her contract? Her superiors shouldn't fire her! We have free speech in America!"
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:55 PM on June 11, 2015 [24 favorites]
Ehhhhh. I'm actually not really comfortable at all with the intersection of both the rise in Real Name No Nym policies, and the internet Justice squad trying to get non-state actors fired. Yes, even if they said shitty stuff on the internet. And did this principal seriously get fired over a one line statement saying he thought the cop did the right thing? Should someone really get fired because they said “He did nothing wrong. He was afraid for his life. I commend him for his actions.”? Sure, I think he's wrong, but should that statement be a fireable offense?
posted by corb at 4:35 PM on June 11, 2015
posted by corb at 4:35 PM on June 11, 2015
if you are an administrator/educator at a majority minority school and you think that video shows a cop who was afraid for his life and did nothing wrong - yeah, i'm totally comfortable saying you aren't fit to lead those children.
posted by nadawi at 4:39 PM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:39 PM on June 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
i'd also be very interested to learn the demographics of who has been suspended at his school and why. when we talk about the school to prison pipeline, educators like the two we're discussing in this thread are the ones who keep that flowing.
posted by nadawi at 4:43 PM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:43 PM on June 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't know. Maybe it's the fact that I work with families every day which have become homeless through sudden unemployment of the primary breadwinner. But I just don't think insta-firing someone over something like this - out of the blue, without even giving a chance for corrective action - or expecting any organization or entity to insta-fire like this, is a good thing. Give him corrective action, by all means. Investigate the racial demographics of his suspensions. Make him take anti-racism classes or anti-police brutality education. But I just cannot be sanguine about people losing their jobs all of a sudden, on the instant, when I know most Americans have less than a month of savings.
posted by corb at 4:50 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:50 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
and i say "wasn't" because she's just been fired.
That's not what the statement says. She's been relieved of her teaching duties. That could be working in the admin office until this blows over, with a letter of caution or something.
posted by ctmf at 4:51 PM on June 11, 2015
That's not what the statement says. She's been relieved of her teaching duties. That could be working in the admin office until this blows over, with a letter of caution or something.
posted by ctmf at 4:51 PM on June 11, 2015
people in positions to give support to systemic racism who show an affinity for doing just that shouldn't be left in those positions just because it's hard to lose your job. i care more about the kids in that school than i do about the consequences for his actions he brought on himself.
and yeah - ctmf is right - as far as i can tell both educators are relieved of student facing duties but likely have been moved to a paper pusher role for a time and might get their jobs back. i think it would be bad if they got to be in control of students again because i think they, like former cpl. shithead, have shown themselves unfit for the job.
posted by nadawi at 5:03 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
and yeah - ctmf is right - as far as i can tell both educators are relieved of student facing duties but likely have been moved to a paper pusher role for a time and might get their jobs back. i think it would be bad if they got to be in control of students again because i think they, like former cpl. shithead, have shown themselves unfit for the job.
posted by nadawi at 5:03 PM on June 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am entirely comfortable with racists being summarily dismissed from positions where they are directly responsible for teaching children how to become adults.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:04 PM on June 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:04 PM on June 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
As tough as the economy is, I assume that almost every time a racist jackass gets fired a reasonable person who very badly needed that job gets employed instead. I can live with that.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:06 PM on June 11, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:06 PM on June 11, 2015 [19 favorites]
I work in a school and its pretty clear to all of us that we represent the school 24/7 with every word and action. Indeed, I think that's pretty clear to everyone in education.
If I worked as Sbarro, I'd be much more comfortable sharing even innocuous political views on social media. As it stands, I got heat for some mild pro-marriage equality messages I put up on Facebook (as did my Principal) and we were both told to cool it with the politics by our upper-ups.
Its easier to replace a teacher or an administrator than it is to deal with an angry parent or angry group of parents.
So basically, the teacher and principal did a boneheaded thing that they almost certainly knew they could get fired for (the principal even said he meant to post it anonymously, probably for that very reason) and then they got fired. Don't feel too bad for them - if they didn't know that this sort of thing could get them fired, they weren't paying attention.
I'm not equating statements in favor of marriage equality with overt statements of racism - just pointing out how low the level of tolerance can be for teachers sharing opinions of any sort.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:37 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
If I worked as Sbarro, I'd be much more comfortable sharing even innocuous political views on social media. As it stands, I got heat for some mild pro-marriage equality messages I put up on Facebook (as did my Principal) and we were both told to cool it with the politics by our upper-ups.
Its easier to replace a teacher or an administrator than it is to deal with an angry parent or angry group of parents.
So basically, the teacher and principal did a boneheaded thing that they almost certainly knew they could get fired for (the principal even said he meant to post it anonymously, probably for that very reason) and then they got fired. Don't feel too bad for them - if they didn't know that this sort of thing could get them fired, they weren't paying attention.
I'm not equating statements in favor of marriage equality with overt statements of racism - just pointing out how low the level of tolerance can be for teachers sharing opinions of any sort.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:37 PM on June 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Anyhow, yeah, its easier in the United States to fire a teacher for sharing an unpopular opinion than it is to fire a cop for shooting a kid dead.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:45 PM on June 11, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:45 PM on June 11, 2015 [18 favorites]
I just don't think insta-firing someone over something like this - out of the blue, without even giving a chance for corrective action - or expecting any organization or entity to insta-fire like this, is a good thing.
I actually agree with this, sort of. In most Western countries you can't fire people without warning, and they're entitled to all sorts of compensation that people in the USA won't necessarily get. But, this really applies to everyone in the USA; I understand that teachers and principals are usually more protected than typical workers. So just because these guys hit the news is no occasion for outrage: that should be reserved for people fired for things that aren't really relevant to their job, and who have no recourse.
As others have said, we don't know if they actually have been fired. I'm glad they're no longer in those positions, though. The teacher, at least, is a horrible ranting racist. I'm worried about what she taught her kids, and I would be concerned for any black child in her classroom. The principal is at least an ignorant, self-centered jerk, and very possibly a racist too. Would kids feel confident in coming to him? His job is (partly) to administer and discipline teachers; he's not doing his job if he reflexively supports actions taken by those in authority. And that's presuming that he wasn't motivated by racism, which is very arguable.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:30 PM on June 11, 2015
I actually agree with this, sort of. In most Western countries you can't fire people without warning, and they're entitled to all sorts of compensation that people in the USA won't necessarily get. But, this really applies to everyone in the USA; I understand that teachers and principals are usually more protected than typical workers. So just because these guys hit the news is no occasion for outrage: that should be reserved for people fired for things that aren't really relevant to their job, and who have no recourse.
As others have said, we don't know if they actually have been fired. I'm glad they're no longer in those positions, though. The teacher, at least, is a horrible ranting racist. I'm worried about what she taught her kids, and I would be concerned for any black child in her classroom. The principal is at least an ignorant, self-centered jerk, and very possibly a racist too. Would kids feel confident in coming to him? His job is (partly) to administer and discipline teachers; he's not doing his job if he reflexively supports actions taken by those in authority. And that's presuming that he wasn't motivated by racism, which is very arguable.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:30 PM on June 11, 2015
one day the reckoning will come for white people and we will deserve it.
But for now... WHEEEEEE!
posted by flabdablet at 9:08 AM on June 12, 2015
But for now... WHEEEEEE!
posted by flabdablet at 9:08 AM on June 12, 2015
I have said it here before and I will say it again: in magical utopia I am absolutely in favor of a separation between a person's private speech and their employment such that a person's ability to earn a living isn't harmed by their sharing of controversial/ill-considered/off-day thoughts.
Here in reality USA where folks have very little recourse when fired unless they are in a fairly small number of protected classes, where tenure is being eradicated, where unions are being weakened, and where people have been getting fired for decades because they dared have an outlook different than their significantly more powerful bosses? Here I say HELL THE FUCK YEAH CELEBRATE WITH STREAMERS FIRST BEER IS ON ME when someone gets summarily fired for saying racist hateful shit.
If the big monied folks who are the beneficiaries of this 99.999% of the time would like to step up and work towards creating better protections against private intervention in personal exercise of free speech, great. They seem a lot more interested in expanding religious liberties of collective actions of shareholders, though, so I wouldn't hold my head under water looking for it.
In the mean time I'm going to continue to think that it's kind of gross to get worked up over this sort of prosecution now that it hits the racists and not the people trying to love the person they happen to love or get mental health care.
posted by phearlez at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Here in reality USA where folks have very little recourse when fired unless they are in a fairly small number of protected classes, where tenure is being eradicated, where unions are being weakened, and where people have been getting fired for decades because they dared have an outlook different than their significantly more powerful bosses? Here I say HELL THE FUCK YEAH CELEBRATE WITH STREAMERS FIRST BEER IS ON ME when someone gets summarily fired for saying racist hateful shit.
If the big monied folks who are the beneficiaries of this 99.999% of the time would like to step up and work towards creating better protections against private intervention in personal exercise of free speech, great. They seem a lot more interested in expanding religious liberties of collective actions of shareholders, though, so I wouldn't hold my head under water looking for it.
In the mean time I'm going to continue to think that it's kind of gross to get worked up over this sort of prosecution now that it hits the racists and not the people trying to love the person they happen to love or get mental health care.
posted by phearlez at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
McKinney pool party officer’s past includes allegations of racial profiling, questionable police practices
posted by Artw at 7:18 AM on June 13, 2015
posted by Artw at 7:18 AM on June 13, 2015
in magical utopia I am absolutely in favor of a separation between a person's private speech and their employment such that a person's ability to earn a living isn't harmed by their sharing of controversial/ill-considered/off-day thoughts.
I get what you are saying, (and we agree on this particular instance living in the world-as-it-is) but a world where my child's fourth grade teacher could rant openly that the country had the right idea about how to treat minorities back before the civil rights era, and there is nothing that we could do to get her away from young impressionable or, god help them, minority children might be utopia for someone, but not for her students or their parents.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:23 AM on June 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I get what you are saying, (and we agree on this particular instance living in the world-as-it-is) but a world where my child's fourth grade teacher could rant openly that the country had the right idea about how to treat minorities back before the civil rights era, and there is nothing that we could do to get her away from young impressionable or, god help them, minority children might be utopia for someone, but not for her students or their parents.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:23 AM on June 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
In that magical utopia, people saying bad and dumb things off the job would be the price you pay for people not being hassled for saying brave, true, and/or beautiful things off the job. In that magic utopia, tolerating teachers saying racist shit off the job would be the price you pay for having teachers who can say communist shit off the job, or things sharply critical of America or Texas off the job, or advocating for poly rights off the job, or making sexually explicit art off the job, or whatever.
But just to be clear, we don't live in that magical utopia. And since lots of things and expression I'd like to see protected aren't, I'll join phearlez in the crowd of people pointing and HA-HA-ing Nelson-style at racists who got fired for it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:18 AM on June 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
But just to be clear, we don't live in that magical utopia. And since lots of things and expression I'd like to see protected aren't, I'll join phearlez in the crowd of people pointing and HA-HA-ing Nelson-style at racists who got fired for it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:18 AM on June 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
It happened again.
"While the full facts of the case are still emerging, the video bears a striking similarity to the recent and more disturbing violence seen last week in McKinney, Texas. In both cases, a white officers responded to young blacks who had committed a minor violation of rules at a swimming pool. In both cases, officers appeared to use excessive force to restrain bathing suit-clad minors. In both cases, the force involved white officers targeting black females."posted by urbanwhaleshark at 8:08 AM on June 17, 2015
Oh dear lord.
I see the mayor has already rushed to defend the fascist assholes, and I don't doubt a fresh torrent of excuses is on the way.
posted by Artw at 8:32 AM on June 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I see the mayor has already rushed to defend the fascist assholes, and I don't doubt a fresh torrent of excuses is on the way.
posted by Artw at 8:32 AM on June 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mayor Jackass: "This is an unfortunate situation and our officers had a tough situation there. But I think they did a good job in showing restraint."
They broke a girl's ribs and jaw!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:45 AM on June 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
They broke a girl's ribs and jaw!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:45 AM on June 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
Mayor Jackass: "This is an unfortunate situation and our officers had a tough situation there. But I think they did a good job in showing restraint."
They broke a girl's ribs and jaw!
Based on my observations from the last few years (or my lifetime, though that was less well documented) that does represent restraint for cops interacting with black youth.
posted by phearlez at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2015
They broke a girl's ribs and jaw!
Based on my observations from the last few years (or my lifetime, though that was less well documented) that does represent restraint for cops interacting with black youth.
posted by phearlez at 9:33 AM on June 17, 2015
Well, yes, as with the pool party its medals all round for not actually murdering anyone, but I think that bar needs raising a little.
posted by Artw at 9:38 AM on June 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:38 AM on June 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Someone on Twitter called for a recut of the Ohio video set to the tune of CSNY's Ohio. Why not, that and Gimme Shelter both already run in my head whenever something ilke this happens.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:53 AM on June 17, 2015
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:53 AM on June 17, 2015
I wonder at what point the world at large is going to start being willing to see that when we hand the police a tool they will then find ways to use it more, rather than using it in limited applications or as a supplement to allow additional engagements they might not otherwise be able to cope with.
On an individual level we have mace & tasers which get deployed in any number of ways rather than do harder work of talking or close quarters encounters. On a larger level we have SWAT/no-knock, which is used in higher percentage than ever. It's never cases of escalation that might work out badly for cops, but it often is cases where it's a course of action that might leave citizens maimed or dead.
All for what? So an officer dealing with a simple trespassing call doesn't possibly get a fingernail scratch from a (pre)teen girl?
posted by phearlez at 2:18 PM on June 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
On an individual level we have mace & tasers which get deployed in any number of ways rather than do harder work of talking or close quarters encounters. On a larger level we have SWAT/no-knock, which is used in higher percentage than ever. It's never cases of escalation that might work out badly for cops, but it often is cases where it's a course of action that might leave citizens maimed or dead.
All for what? So an officer dealing with a simple trespassing call doesn't possibly get a fingernail scratch from a (pre)teen girl?
posted by phearlez at 2:18 PM on June 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nonlethals are for torture and if you're too lazy to perform a beating. They'd never use one on place of an actual shooting.
posted by Artw at 3:13 PM on June 17, 2015
posted by Artw at 3:13 PM on June 17, 2015
why on earth would they hold a girl down and pepper spray her in her mouth? I mean -- Jesus, do they train that shit?
posted by angrycat at 3:49 PM on June 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 3:49 PM on June 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is not about race, because it's never about race.
@YousefMunayyer: Cant make this up: S. Carolina governor who defends flying confederate flag at statehouse can't understand what motivates [a white man to kill 9 people in a historic black church]
posted by zombieflanders at 3:56 AM on June 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
@YousefMunayyer: Cant make this up: S. Carolina governor who defends flying confederate flag at statehouse can't understand what motivates [a white man to kill 9 people in a historic black church]
posted by zombieflanders at 3:56 AM on June 18, 2015 [5 favorites]
All 50 US states fail to meet global police use of force standards, report finds
posted by Artw at 9:31 AM on June 18, 2015
posted by Artw at 9:31 AM on June 18, 2015
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posted by fireoyster at 5:40 PM on June 7, 2015