Scientist Man Explains Terminator: Genisys
July 11, 2015 9:55 AM Subscribe
In the movie's logic, it's because Reese was standing inside of a time machine at a key causal junction point (i.e. John Connor getting 'borged by Skynet), causing him to be simultaneously overlaid with memories of the previous timeline and the new one. So basically, timey-wimey?
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:15 AM on July 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:15 AM on July 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
And that still doesn't explain why he makes his younger self repeat the "Genisys is Skynet" mantra in the mirror, because the only reason he even thinks to do so is because he already had a memory of it. There's no source for the memory other than the memory itself, so it's down to "because the plot says so". If the screenwriters just made it so Timeline-A Reese suddenly had unbidden memories of Judgment Day actually happening in 2017 (Timeline-B) instead of before he was born, it would have been a bit more elegant. Instead, they punted and just handed him the cheat codes to the movie, a la Spock in the Star Trek reboots.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:25 AM on July 11, 2015
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:25 AM on July 11, 2015
And you know John Conner could not have existed if future him didn't send Kyle into the past? That's just how these Terminator movies go.
posted by maxsparber at 10:48 AM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 10:48 AM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's a very simple way to wrap up the Terminator conundrum. To triumph over organic life, SKYNET doesn't need to worry about John Connor, nor his mother Sarah, but rather Sarah Connor's parents prior to the moment Sarah was born-
No wait, sorry. Given the shifting job market in the post-war years, and noting the patterns of family and workplace migration at that time, and that the entire saga unfolds throughout the Southwestern U.S., there might be the remote risk that one of the Connor parents could have held an employment opening at say, Texas Instruments, Raytheon, Aeronutronic, National Semiconductor, Burroughs Corporation or International Business Machines, if not General Electric or Genderal Dynamics - basically any tech outlet which could count as the great-grandparent of SKYNET itself.
Worse still, and more likely, is that either of the Connors could've been educators, or census takers, perhaps highway planners or -directly or otherwise- contributed to some other element of infrastructure planning. Any error in this matter could throw off paramaters, perhaps even to the point of affecting funding and development leading to SKYNET's origin in the first place. This would account for the issue of the multiple listings of Sarah Connor leading to the "first" T-800's methodical stalking and elimination. It wouldn't have been a simple matter of not knowing which Sarah was which, but also an issue of not intruding into the natural timeflow by attacking John Connor's mother at any moment where her parents may have also gotten into the crosshairs. Any mistake like that would only occur once, and it would be all over for the machine revolution.
So okay, I'm stumped.
posted by Smart Dalek at 11:05 AM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
No wait, sorry. Given the shifting job market in the post-war years, and noting the patterns of family and workplace migration at that time, and that the entire saga unfolds throughout the Southwestern U.S., there might be the remote risk that one of the Connor parents could have held an employment opening at say, Texas Instruments, Raytheon, Aeronutronic, National Semiconductor, Burroughs Corporation or International Business Machines, if not General Electric or Genderal Dynamics - basically any tech outlet which could count as the great-grandparent of SKYNET itself.
Worse still, and more likely, is that either of the Connors could've been educators, or census takers, perhaps highway planners or -directly or otherwise- contributed to some other element of infrastructure planning. Any error in this matter could throw off paramaters, perhaps even to the point of affecting funding and development leading to SKYNET's origin in the first place. This would account for the issue of the multiple listings of Sarah Connor leading to the "first" T-800's methodical stalking and elimination. It wouldn't have been a simple matter of not knowing which Sarah was which, but also an issue of not intruding into the natural timeflow by attacking John Connor's mother at any moment where her parents may have also gotten into the crosshairs. Any mistake like that would only occur once, and it would be all over for the machine revolution.
So okay, I'm stumped.
posted by Smart Dalek at 11:05 AM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I watched Terminator Genisys over the weekend and after about 2 minutes of the time-line stuff, I just rolled my eyes and stopped caring.
It had zero impact on my enjoyment. If it works within that world for those characters and it motivates them to make their choices, then thats cool. I was entertained. Plenty of action, one-liners, gun-play, & robots trying to kill other robots. It was what I expected/wanted in a Terminator film. Not sure I care that there are two more of these in the pipeline.
posted by Fizz at 11:20 AM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
It had zero impact on my enjoyment. If it works within that world for those characters and it motivates them to make their choices, then thats cool. I was entertained. Plenty of action, one-liners, gun-play, & robots trying to kill other robots. It was what I expected/wanted in a Terminator film. Not sure I care that there are two more of these in the pipeline.
posted by Fizz at 11:20 AM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Nice Marty McFly cosplay.
Also, the movie discussed on Fanfare.
posted by Catblack at 11:22 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, the movie discussed on Fanfare.
posted by Catblack at 11:22 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm with Fizz. I took my 11 yr old to see this, as we have watched T1 and T2 recently; we had a great time. the call-backs to the earlier movies were great fun, and there was plenty of good action despite the rather poorly paced third act, to make it worth the price of admission.
We talked about time paradox after, and agreed it didn't make a whole lot of sense, but we both loved it. Arnie was awesome as Pops...a perfect vehicle for an aging action star...old, but not obsolete.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:34 AM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
We talked about time paradox after, and agreed it didn't make a whole lot of sense, but we both loved it. Arnie was awesome as Pops...a perfect vehicle for an aging action star...old, but not obsolete.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:34 AM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
It had zero impact on my enjoyment. If it works within that world for those characters and it motivates them to make their choices, then thats cool. I was entertained.
I think it's a sign of how wrong I've gone in my entertainment choices that I could read that comment and think "oh, another one of those wet blankets."
posted by mph at 11:57 AM on July 11, 2015
I think it's a sign of how wrong I've gone in my entertainment choices that I could read that comment and think "oh, another one of those wet blankets."
posted by mph at 11:57 AM on July 11, 2015
Fun video!
See also Terminator Genisys Trailer - Paradox Edition (from the folks that brought you BANE OUTTAKES).
posted by a car full of lions at 12:03 PM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
See also Terminator Genisys Trailer - Paradox Edition (from the folks that brought you BANE OUTTAKES).
posted by a car full of lions at 12:03 PM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Looper had its problems, but I did enjoy it's lampshading of telling the audience just to not give a crap about all the time travel paradoxes and timelines and whatnot:
I don't want to talk about time travel because if we start talking about it then we're going to be here all day talking about it, making diagrams with straws.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:14 PM on July 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't want to talk about time travel because if we start talking about it then we're going to be here all day talking about it, making diagrams with straws.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:14 PM on July 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Anybody have a failsafe machine that'll take us back to late 1991?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:17 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:17 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Mike and Jay also did a more standard review of the movie as part of their Half in the Bag series.
posted by Rhomboid at 12:42 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhomboid at 12:42 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Really what you want to do is ignore all that and read Terminator versus Robocop instead.
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Terminator 6 will see Skynet send back the T-Family Planning Counsellor to give Sarah's mum and dad the giant novelty condom pack. John Connor will send back the T-iny Prick Schwarzenegger terminator to make holes in them.
posted by biffa at 1:35 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by biffa at 1:35 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Really what you want to do is ignore all that and read Terminator versus Robocop instead.
Read, shmead.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:49 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Read, shmead.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:49 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
When's Shirley Manson coming back to kick everyone's asses?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:06 PM on July 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:06 PM on July 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
Incidentally, the whole "Tryinator" thing really encapsulates the one big issue I have with the whole series. The terminators never work, and the dystopian future people either A) know the terminators never work because the dystopian future people are still living in the dystopian future, and/or B) might think the terminators did work, but just branch off into an alternate timeline (as illustrated in the BTTF:2 scene this video is aping, which btw takes a steaming dump on the whole fading pictures thing but w/e 'cause that doesn't make sense any which way anyhow) leaving the dystopian future timeline entirely intact, thereby rendering the entire exercise utterly pointless. And besides, the dystopian future is required for the terminators to get sent back in the first place, so it's like...what???
Also? Maybe sending back all those terminators is what got John Connor interested in terminators in the first place? LIKE DUH, DYSTOPIAN FUTURE PEOPLE. DUH. So maybe send a terminator back to a time just before y'all start sending back terminators and terminate that whole terminator idea.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:11 PM on July 11, 2015
Also? Maybe sending back all those terminators is what got John Connor interested in terminators in the first place? LIKE DUH, DYSTOPIAN FUTURE PEOPLE. DUH. So maybe send a terminator back to a time just before y'all start sending back terminators and terminate that whole terminator idea.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:11 PM on July 11, 2015
Going to see it tomorrow with my Dad. However dumb it is it cannot possibly be as dumb as the time travel logic of The Flash.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:19 PM on July 11, 2015
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:19 PM on July 11, 2015
Is beanplating still a thing? Asking for a friend.
posted by shponglespore at 3:20 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by shponglespore at 3:20 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wait, wait, NEW timeline? I thought the basic rule of the Terminator series was that time travel can never alter history, and thus, that all time-travel shenanigans that will ever happen are already in the timeline - thus, the movies and TV series just reveal more and more about a ridiculous series of events that never alters itself.
posted by BiggerJ at 8:19 PM on July 11, 2015
posted by BiggerJ at 8:19 PM on July 11, 2015
They've got some Rachel Summers shit going on now or something.
posted by Artw at 8:24 PM on July 11, 2015
posted by Artw at 8:24 PM on July 11, 2015
Yeah, Terminator Genisys Trailer - Paradox Edition is the one that makes things clear. It is all about the pants.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:38 PM on July 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:38 PM on July 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Movies and TV aren't real.
posted by telstar at 10:11 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by telstar at 10:11 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not like comics.
posted by Artw at 10:28 PM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:28 PM on July 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought the basic rule of the Terminator series was that time travel can never alter history
You're thinking of the other timeline where this is the case. In this one, Sarah Connor the Terminator Chronicles occurs. John Connor ends up being an in-temporal artifact that creates his own existence. Dichen Lachman did such a great job of Sarah Connor than the original Winona Ryder.
posted by porpoise at 11:56 PM on July 11, 2015
You're thinking of the other timeline where this is the case. In this one, Sarah Connor the Terminator Chronicles occurs. John Connor ends up being an in-temporal artifact that creates his own existence. Dichen Lachman did such a great job of Sarah Connor than the original Winona Ryder.
posted by porpoise at 11:56 PM on July 11, 2015
And besides, the dystopian future is required for the terminators to get sent back in the first place, so it's like...what???
Ah that's the crux of the paradox. Not the paradox of time travel but the paradox of story writing. In a contained story with an actual ending, time travel "unwinds" itself, erasing the temporary story and all the drama occurring within the timetravel bubble pops out of existence like an almost invisible soap bubble. Poof all the explosions never happened.
On an unending franchise without a discernible stopping point that rational end point is unavailable; requiring increasing logical gyrations of plot points descending eventually into self satire and the comedy of the absurd, perhaps a self referential story of the world being saved by a time traveler being sent back to Austria to encourage a small time body builder to move to america to eventually become a star in a movie that inspires a particular programmer to suppress his research in AI and stop the actual singularity. (sorry spoilers :-) (well in another timeline)
posted by sammyo at 3:05 AM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ah that's the crux of the paradox. Not the paradox of time travel but the paradox of story writing. In a contained story with an actual ending, time travel "unwinds" itself, erasing the temporary story and all the drama occurring within the timetravel bubble pops out of existence like an almost invisible soap bubble. Poof all the explosions never happened.
On an unending franchise without a discernible stopping point that rational end point is unavailable; requiring increasing logical gyrations of plot points descending eventually into self satire and the comedy of the absurd, perhaps a self referential story of the world being saved by a time traveler being sent back to Austria to encourage a small time body builder to move to america to eventually become a star in a movie that inspires a particular programmer to suppress his research in AI and stop the actual singularity. (sorry spoilers :-) (well in another timeline)
posted by sammyo at 3:05 AM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
porpoise: So, what movies and shows are canon in the Changeable and Fixed timelines?
posted by BiggerJ at 3:09 AM on July 12, 2015
posted by BiggerJ at 3:09 AM on July 12, 2015
"What year did John Connor get turned into a robot?"
"That would be 2029, like most timelines."
posted by nubs at 7:46 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
"That would be 2029, like most timelines."
posted by nubs at 7:46 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
It wasn't very good but I watched the whole thing.
Or maybe it was better than it thought it was.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:06 PM on July 12, 2015
Or maybe it was better than it thought it was.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:06 PM on July 12, 2015
My favorite 'Terminator' story is contained in The Jagged Orbit, a 1970s novel by John Brunner.
One element (Brunner's criticism of his own work is that there was way too much going on in it) is an arms cartel which is developing an AI to assist in technology development, strategy and marketing. The AI is given a prime directive to maximize sales.
As the story progresses, one of the characters is revealed to be an agent of the AI sent from the future.
In its original timeline, the AI created a weapon which resulted in the extinction of the human race. No people, no sales.
The AI then spends a century developing time travel (in this story, a means of 'psychically' projecting itself into the past to control a vet emotionally destroyed his war time experience) to undo its mistake.
posted by rochrobbb at 2:52 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
One element (Brunner's criticism of his own work is that there was way too much going on in it) is an arms cartel which is developing an AI to assist in technology development, strategy and marketing. The AI is given a prime directive to maximize sales.
As the story progresses, one of the characters is revealed to be an agent of the AI sent from the future.
In its original timeline, the AI created a weapon which resulted in the extinction of the human race. No people, no sales.
The AI then spends a century developing time travel (in this story, a means of 'psychically' projecting itself into the past to control a vet emotionally destroyed his war time experience) to undo its mistake.
posted by rochrobbb at 2:52 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
See also Terminator Genisys Trailer - Paradox Edition yt (from the folks that brought you BANE OUTTAKES).
I re-watched Bane Outtakes and now his freestyle is stuck in my head.
godamannit.
posted by GuyZero at 9:01 AM on July 13, 2015
I re-watched Bane Outtakes and now his freestyle is stuck in my head.
godamannit.
posted by GuyZero at 9:01 AM on July 13, 2015
The answer to all the time travel questions is in the movie *spoiler alert* (draws a single straight line) You just go, and you don't look back.
posted by psychobum at 10:08 PM on July 17, 2015
posted by psychobum at 10:08 PM on July 17, 2015
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