Eat Meat. Not Too Little. Mostly Fat.
July 16, 2015 5:01 PM Subscribe
Even during the years I was sound man for the Grateful Dead, I stuck to my guns and remained totally carnivorous. Owsley Stanley, underground chemist, ate nothing but meat for 50 years, until he was killed in a car crash.
1. Meet the No-Carb Family: We are 100% beef and have been almost from the beginning. If I have a desire for chicken or pork I’ll eat it but the desire is seldom if ever there. We didn’t set out to be “beef only”. When we started we ate fish, bacon, chicken and lamb as well. However, we quickly noticed that we never felt as good with other meats as we did with beef. The more we ate beef the less we desired other meats.
2. Many people have asked me and Zooko where to begin with a ketogenic diet, or how to troubleshoot a ketogenic diet that hasn't given all the benefits they were hoping for. On our science blog (The Ketogenic Diet for Health), we have talked a lot about why, but have not said much about how. This is our current advice, based on our reading of science literature, our personal experiences, those of our friends, and our reading of other people's stories. Our recommendation is simple: eat nothing but meat for 30 days.
3. Muscle, Smoke and Mirrors, vol. 2: [Richard Tucker]'s diet over a week would consist of roughly five lbs (2.3kg) of raw meat and fish, three dozen raw eggs, and up to two quarts (1.82L) of raw milk depending on his level of physical activity. Of course, some of the raw meat consisted of liver.
4. PROLONGED MEAT DIETS WITH A STUDY OF KIDNEY FUNCTION AND KETOSIS [PDF]. Two normal men volunteered to live solely on meat for one year, which gave us an unusual opportunity of studying the effects of this diet. tl;dr, they were fine.
1. Meet the No-Carb Family: We are 100% beef and have been almost from the beginning. If I have a desire for chicken or pork I’ll eat it but the desire is seldom if ever there. We didn’t set out to be “beef only”. When we started we ate fish, bacon, chicken and lamb as well. However, we quickly noticed that we never felt as good with other meats as we did with beef. The more we ate beef the less we desired other meats.
2. Many people have asked me and Zooko where to begin with a ketogenic diet, or how to troubleshoot a ketogenic diet that hasn't given all the benefits they were hoping for. On our science blog (The Ketogenic Diet for Health), we have talked a lot about why, but have not said much about how. This is our current advice, based on our reading of science literature, our personal experiences, those of our friends, and our reading of other people's stories. Our recommendation is simple: eat nothing but meat for 30 days.
3. Muscle, Smoke and Mirrors, vol. 2: [Richard Tucker]'s diet over a week would consist of roughly five lbs (2.3kg) of raw meat and fish, three dozen raw eggs, and up to two quarts (1.82L) of raw milk depending on his level of physical activity. Of course, some of the raw meat consisted of liver.
4. PROLONGED MEAT DIETS WITH A STUDY OF KIDNEY FUNCTION AND KETOSIS [PDF]. Two normal men volunteered to live solely on meat for one year, which gave us an unusual opportunity of studying the effects of this diet. tl;dr, they were fine.
but pooping????????????????
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 5:13 PM on July 16, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 5:13 PM on July 16, 2015 [30 favorites]
owsley catch a rabbit by his hair ...
posted by pyramid termite at 5:14 PM on July 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 5:14 PM on July 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
Um, you still need fiber. If you're planning keto, for the love of God, eat vegetables!
posted by leotrotsky at 5:15 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by leotrotsky at 5:15 PM on July 16, 2015
Wouldn't literally going carnivorous lead to scurvy?
posted by mr. digits at 5:18 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mr. digits at 5:18 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
but pooping????????????????
Heh. I was thinking the same thing. I loves me some meat, but I do tend to dread the next couple of days following an unplanned heavily carnivorous evening. Passing a croquet ball comes to mind.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:20 PM on July 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
Heh. I was thinking the same thing. I loves me some meat, but I do tend to dread the next couple of days following an unplanned heavily carnivorous evening. Passing a croquet ball comes to mind.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:20 PM on July 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
> Wouldn't literally going carnivorous lead to scurvy?
Raw meat still has Vitamin C.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:22 PM on July 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
Raw meat still has Vitamin C.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:22 PM on July 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
but pooping????????????????
Um, you still need fiber. If you're planning keto, for the love of God, eat vegetables!
Wouldn't literally going carnivorous lead to scurvy?
I don't want to mod my own thread or nothin' but:
- the consensus among strict carnivores is that pooping is actually becomes easier and less, uh, voluminous, after the initial adjustment period
- w/r/t scurvy, that's a function of vitamin C which is present in organ meats which all carnivores get plenty of. That's why I'm skeptical of the "no-carb family" as they apparently don't eat any organs and not much in the way of fat either... but they fit the tone of the post so I threw 'em in.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 5:23 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Um, you still need fiber. If you're planning keto, for the love of God, eat vegetables!
Wouldn't literally going carnivorous lead to scurvy?
I don't want to mod my own thread or nothin' but:
- the consensus among strict carnivores is that pooping is actually becomes easier and less, uh, voluminous, after the initial adjustment period
- w/r/t scurvy, that's a function of vitamin C which is present in organ meats which all carnivores get plenty of. That's why I'm skeptical of the "no-carb family" as they apparently don't eat any organs and not much in the way of fat either... but they fit the tone of the post so I threw 'em in.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 5:23 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I've decided that sausage is, for all intents and purposes, a vegetable.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 5:27 PM on July 16, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 5:27 PM on July 16, 2015 [11 favorites]
19. How much money do you spend on food each month?
We spend quite a bit! Unfortunately rib-eyes aren’t cheap. Depending on the price per pound, we spend anywhere from $1,000 to $1,750 a month.
So the no-carb family spends about as much per person (half of whom are young children) as I and my spouse spend to feed the both of us and, on the high end, the 85 Lbs dog too.
At least the meal planning is easy.
posted by VTX at 5:27 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
We spend quite a bit! Unfortunately rib-eyes aren’t cheap. Depending on the price per pound, we spend anywhere from $1,000 to $1,750 a month.
So the no-carb family spends about as much per person (half of whom are young children) as I and my spouse spend to feed the both of us and, on the high end, the 85 Lbs dog too.
At least the meal planning is easy.
posted by VTX at 5:27 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
They would save a lot of money if they just bought cows.
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:29 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:29 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
The cost is definitely a problem. Actually it's not within our means for all living human beings to eat this way even if we discovered that it's the key to immortality. The resources don't exist. We can only maintain a population of nearly 10 billion people by most of us subsisting on unhealthy cheap carbs.
I am pre-diabetic and my health went an almost unbelievable 180 degree turnaround when I started eating to the glucose meter in 2006. And what the meter said, almost without exception, was: If it's green or it came from an animal, OK. Otherwise, don't eat it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:33 PM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
I am pre-diabetic and my health went an almost unbelievable 180 degree turnaround when I started eating to the glucose meter in 2006. And what the meter said, almost without exception, was: If it's green or it came from an animal, OK. Otherwise, don't eat it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:33 PM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
I thought I was having flashbacks during the Owsley Stanley read, but then I realised he was just repeating himself.
posted by Thella at 5:37 PM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Thella at 5:37 PM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
One of vitamin C's roles is in syntheis of collagen and carnitine. Hence the symptoms of scurvy where your connective tissues just kinda dissolve. Possibly an all-meat diet is rich in collagen and carnitine, so less vitamin C is needed? That would explain the no-carb family getting by with their steak well-done.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 5:38 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 5:38 PM on July 16, 2015
I lost 60 pounds in six months on a low carb (<20g net carbs/day) diet a few years ago; a much larger friend of mine started in March of this year and is already down 66. And...
Yep. Oh, and fuck diabetes.
...a third friend of mine sticks to keto because it singlehandedly manages their type 2 diabetes.
Just eating meat is IMO a bad idea- you'll be much better off if you eat non-starchy vegetables (seriously, broccoli and spinach are amazing and easy to prepare) and eggs are basically perfect little packages of protein and fat.
but pooping????????????????
TMI time: I inherited a problematic gut from my mother's side of the family- flatulence, diarrhea, etc, starting when I was a little kid. Keto pretty much eliminates my GI tract problems like they were never there.
The only problem I've found with it is that it's expensive and pretty much impossible if you're poor.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:50 PM on July 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yep. Oh, and fuck diabetes.
...a third friend of mine sticks to keto because it singlehandedly manages their type 2 diabetes.
Just eating meat is IMO a bad idea- you'll be much better off if you eat non-starchy vegetables (seriously, broccoli and spinach are amazing and easy to prepare) and eggs are basically perfect little packages of protein and fat.
but pooping????????????????
TMI time: I inherited a problematic gut from my mother's side of the family- flatulence, diarrhea, etc, starting when I was a little kid. Keto pretty much eliminates my GI tract problems like they were never there.
The only problem I've found with it is that it's expensive and pretty much impossible if you're poor.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:50 PM on July 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
Cold, sliced boiled tongue is seriously good.
Boil the tongue in just enough water with peppercorns, cloves, some celery and onion, and a bouquet garni if desired. Cook on simmer for two hours. Remove, cool, peel off tongue skin, place peeled tongue in round bowl, just big enough to fit the tongue rolled in on itself. Cover with some of the cooking juices. Refrigerate to set. Upturn bowl, peel away jelly, slice thickly or finely, enjoy on a sandwich or with coleslaw. Sweet fatty deliciousness.
posted by Thella at 6:03 PM on July 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
Boil the tongue in just enough water with peppercorns, cloves, some celery and onion, and a bouquet garni if desired. Cook on simmer for two hours. Remove, cool, peel off tongue skin, place peeled tongue in round bowl, just big enough to fit the tongue rolled in on itself. Cover with some of the cooking juices. Refrigerate to set. Upturn bowl, peel away jelly, slice thickly or finely, enjoy on a sandwich or with coleslaw. Sweet fatty deliciousness.
posted by Thella at 6:03 PM on July 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
I think that may be the first picture I've ever seen of Owsley, despite having read about him pretty frequently over the years.
posted by uosuaq at 6:07 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:07 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
You don't make friends with salad.
posted by Flashman at 6:11 PM on July 16, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 6:11 PM on July 16, 2015 [17 favorites]
I'm not sure you make friends with the phrase "peel off tongue skin" either.
posted by tocts at 6:16 PM on July 16, 2015 [69 favorites]
posted by tocts at 6:16 PM on July 16, 2015 [69 favorites]
"Eat only meat. Maximize the amount of death that must occur to give you life."
posted by edheil at 6:16 PM on July 16, 2015 [39 favorites]
posted by edheil at 6:16 PM on July 16, 2015 [39 favorites]
We spend quite a bit! Unfortunately rib-eyes aren’t cheap. Depending on the price per pound, we spend anywhere from $1,000 to $1,750 a month.
Jesus Christ that is a fucking fuck load of money.
Like, I lived totally fine on $200 a month of food stamps split between 2 people. Maybe spending an extra $50. I maybe spend ~$300 for 2 people now, give or take a bit more if I eat out.
That is like, rich Eco yuppie who only shops at the local co-op, rarely eats out, and is inexplicably wealthy amounts of money.(I've worked for and known several people like this) And it's at the high end of that.
That is just SO much money holy shit. When I lived with 5 people right after college our monthly food bill was maybe $500 for the whole house, and we weren't eating garbage. Lots of bulk vegetables, lots of decent stuff. That's like a family with 5 kids amount of money and still fairly high.
What a silly rich person hobby.
posted by emptythought at 6:24 PM on July 16, 2015 [28 favorites]
Jesus Christ that is a fucking fuck load of money.
Like, I lived totally fine on $200 a month of food stamps split between 2 people. Maybe spending an extra $50. I maybe spend ~$300 for 2 people now, give or take a bit more if I eat out.
That is like, rich Eco yuppie who only shops at the local co-op, rarely eats out, and is inexplicably wealthy amounts of money.(I've worked for and known several people like this) And it's at the high end of that.
That is just SO much money holy shit. When I lived with 5 people right after college our monthly food bill was maybe $500 for the whole house, and we weren't eating garbage. Lots of bulk vegetables, lots of decent stuff. That's like a family with 5 kids amount of money and still fairly high.
What a silly rich person hobby.
posted by emptythought at 6:24 PM on July 16, 2015 [28 favorites]
Not to knock Owsley or anything, but bears aren't that carnivorous. Except for polar bears. Most get an awful large portion of their calories from plants.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:24 PM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by caution live frogs at 6:24 PM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
But what about sandwiches? They make an exception for bread and avocado, yes?
...And tacos? You gotta put some casera salsa on that steeze, plus cebolla y cilantro. I can see skipping out on the tortillas and just eating out of your hand like some sort of monster person, but you can't be stingy with el sabor.
Man, I'm sweating just thinking about this stuff...
posted by Anoplura at 6:28 PM on July 16, 2015 [8 favorites]
...And tacos? You gotta put some casera salsa on that steeze, plus cebolla y cilantro. I can see skipping out on the tortillas and just eating out of your hand like some sort of monster person, but you can't be stingy with el sabor.
Man, I'm sweating just thinking about this stuff...
posted by Anoplura at 6:28 PM on July 16, 2015 [8 favorites]
Keto-friendly tacos can be made by utilizing romaine lettuce leaves in place of tortilla shells.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:31 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:31 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
And what about BEER! I know how to make super-low-carb beer out of barley and sugar, but you can't make beer out of meat.
This ketosis stuff sounds like a really big hassle.
posted by Anoplura at 6:32 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
This ketosis stuff sounds like a really big hassle.
posted by Anoplura at 6:32 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean, I know people also will carefully fry up some cheese and shape it into a taco shell shape, or make a bacon weave and shape it into a taco shell shape, but jesus that's so much more work than just wrapping a romaine leaf around your taco bits.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:32 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:32 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Keto-friendly tacos can be made by utilizing romaine lettuce leaves in place of tortilla shells.
Yeah, but that's a green vegetable - like our amigos the jalapeno, cilantro and tomatillo. I thought this was all about a meat, meat and meat only diet?
posted by Anoplura at 6:33 PM on July 16, 2015
Yeah, but that's a green vegetable - like our amigos the jalapeno, cilantro and tomatillo. I thought this was all about a meat, meat and meat only diet?
posted by Anoplura at 6:33 PM on July 16, 2015
Keto pretty much eliminates my GI tract problems like they were never there.
YES a high protein diet with vast heaps of meat makes my gut and butt super happy about doing their jobs instead of existing in a constant state of outrage and agitation.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:34 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
YES a high protein diet with vast heaps of meat makes my gut and butt super happy about doing their jobs instead of existing in a constant state of outrage and agitation.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:34 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Regarding poop:
In my experience with a keto high fat diet is that more fat equals lubed up intestine. Also, when I eat a carb heavy diet gas is definitely an unfortunate side effect (among many many others).
Now the internet knows all about my poo and I'm okay with that.
posted by the lake is above, the water below at 6:35 PM on July 16, 2015
In my experience with a keto high fat diet is that more fat equals lubed up intestine. Also, when I eat a carb heavy diet gas is definitely an unfortunate side effect (among many many others).
Now the internet knows all about my poo and I'm okay with that.
posted by the lake is above, the water below at 6:35 PM on July 16, 2015
also does that pig blood chocolate pudding count as low carb
i think yes
posted by poffin boffin at 6:36 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
i think yes
posted by poffin boffin at 6:36 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
But yes this meat family is dumb if they're not buying entire half cows and storing cuts in a chest freezer. Also I can't understand eating beef when bison exists.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:39 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 6:39 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's not necessary to eat terribly high quality/cost meat (or anything else) to get the weight loss benefit of a ketogenic diet. I was able to lose over 100lb on it while making about $750/month, supplemented by a 10% discount on groceries and unlimited heavy cream from Starbucks (my two jobs at the time). Those helped a great deal.
Beer is one of those things you miss until you cheat and have one or two. Then the bloating reminds you why you never want to do that again.
posted by notquitemaryann at 6:41 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Beer is one of those things you miss until you cheat and have one or two. Then the bloating reminds you why you never want to do that again.
posted by notquitemaryann at 6:41 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Keto-friendly tacos can be made by utilizing romaine lettuce leaves in place of tortilla shells.
An Ode To a Healthy Breakfast Burrito
Whilst the wife was pregnant we went to the midwife,
she the one who dictated our life.
Her requirements many,
restrictions aplenty.
Like "Cashews are poisonous."
Oh how that annoyed us.
But only one day did I fear
that my wife would lug a gear
and take off the absurdly fit lady's head
when she said
"I'd prefer if you dropped the tortilla and used a lettuce leaf instead."
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:43 PM on July 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
An Ode To a Healthy Breakfast Burrito
Whilst the wife was pregnant we went to the midwife,
she the one who dictated our life.
Her requirements many,
restrictions aplenty.
Like "Cashews are poisonous."
Oh how that annoyed us.
But only one day did I fear
that my wife would lug a gear
and take off the absurdly fit lady's head
when she said
"I'd prefer if you dropped the tortilla and used a lettuce leaf instead."
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:43 PM on July 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
Whiskey, on the other hand... carb free, pairs nicely with bacon.
posted by notquitemaryann at 6:43 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by notquitemaryann at 6:43 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
But yes this meat family is dumb if they're not buying entire half cows and storing cuts in a chest freezer. Also I can't understand eating beef when bison exists.
Seriously, if you've got the freezer space, go in with somebody on a cow. The prices are unbelievable and if you know the farmer responsible (not possible for everybody, I know) you can know what's going into your beef.
It's not necessary to eat terribly high quality/cost meat (or anything else) to get the weight loss benefit of a ketogenic diet. I was able to lose over 100lb on it while making about $750/month, supplemented by a 10% discount on groceries and unlimited heavy cream from Starbucks (my two jobs at the time). Those helped a great deal.
I ate a lot of ground beef. Eating expensive cuts all the time seems wasteful and decadent to me.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:44 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seriously, if you've got the freezer space, go in with somebody on a cow. The prices are unbelievable and if you know the farmer responsible (not possible for everybody, I know) you can know what's going into your beef.
It's not necessary to eat terribly high quality/cost meat (or anything else) to get the weight loss benefit of a ketogenic diet. I was able to lose over 100lb on it while making about $750/month, supplemented by a 10% discount on groceries and unlimited heavy cream from Starbucks (my two jobs at the time). Those helped a great deal.
I ate a lot of ground beef. Eating expensive cuts all the time seems wasteful and decadent to me.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:44 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
A chest freezer for the basement is pretty much my idea of heaven.
posted by notquitemaryann at 6:46 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by notquitemaryann at 6:46 PM on July 16, 2015
"Eat only meat. Maximize the amount of death that must occur to give you life."
``It is told that Buddha, going out to look on life, was greatly daunted by death. "They all eat one another!" he cried, and called it evil. This process I examined, changed the verb, said, "They all feed one another," and called it good.''
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:57 PM on July 16, 2015 [10 favorites]
``It is told that Buddha, going out to look on life, was greatly daunted by death. "They all eat one another!" he cried, and called it evil. This process I examined, changed the verb, said, "They all feed one another," and called it good.''
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:57 PM on July 16, 2015 [10 favorites]
Here in Quebec the price of beef has nearly doubled in the last year.
posted by Jode at 7:01 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by Jode at 7:01 PM on July 16, 2015
To sorta piggy back on a lungful of dragon... Ain't plants got life that is taken away to sustain life? What about the insects and small animals in the plant fields/farms that die during harvest? What about all the land taken from roaming animals like bison, horses, etc to set aside for farming? The question of eating animals is something I've done a lot of thinking on. There are no black or white answers, I think. I will say, however, that a "traditional" diet based mostly on plants and animals (nixing processed foods and probably grains in general) is generally more satiating and nutritious, pound for pound, than the alternatives - meaning you typically eat less yet THRIVE more.
Balancing my optimal health with the least amount of death for EVERY living thing, is the best answer I've found for this moral/ecological dilemma.
posted by the lake is above, the water below at 7:08 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Balancing my optimal health with the least amount of death for EVERY living thing, is the best answer I've found for this moral/ecological dilemma.
posted by the lake is above, the water below at 7:08 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I ate a lot of ground beef. Eating expensive cuts all the time seems wasteful and decadent to me.
Where I am, South Florida, pork ribs, beef ribs (sometimes), and chicken wings & thighs are all cheaper than ground beef. And they're way better (i.e. fattier, on the bone) of course. Kinda strange really, since I always thought of ground beef as being the cheapest meat, and it's perfect for making Bachelor Chow (TM), but it's almost twice as expensive as the other stuff I listed - $2-3/lb vs $4-6/lb.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:23 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Where I am, South Florida, pork ribs, beef ribs (sometimes), and chicken wings & thighs are all cheaper than ground beef. And they're way better (i.e. fattier, on the bone) of course. Kinda strange really, since I always thought of ground beef as being the cheapest meat, and it's perfect for making Bachelor Chow (TM), but it's almost twice as expensive as the other stuff I listed - $2-3/lb vs $4-6/lb.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:23 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
What does one do if you don't actually care for the taste of beef?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:28 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by Thorzdad at 7:28 PM on July 16, 2015
Keto-friendly tacos can be made by utilizing romaine lettuce leaves in place of tortilla shells.
That's less a taco and more a salad you can hold in your hand.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
That's less a taco and more a salad you can hold in your hand.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
What does one do if you don't actually care for the taste of beef?
Perfect! This is about outsmarting your GI tract and tens of thousands of years of evolution. Starting from the perspective of a carno-centric asceticism gives you a big head start. It's not about having fun or feeling good, it's about the smug superiority of suffering a starvation diet and getting to eat fatty cuts of meat AT THE SAME TIME!
You know who eats low on the food chain? Crabs! If you like scuttling around sideways everywhere, and pinching shit, then good luck with that. If you want to be a bronzed hercules/athena who crushes 2 different Crossfit seshes a day and sweats tallow, then you got to get on that beef train - like it or not.
posted by Anoplura at 7:44 PM on July 16, 2015 [18 favorites]
Perfect! This is about outsmarting your GI tract and tens of thousands of years of evolution. Starting from the perspective of a carno-centric asceticism gives you a big head start. It's not about having fun or feeling good, it's about the smug superiority of suffering a starvation diet and getting to eat fatty cuts of meat AT THE SAME TIME!
You know who eats low on the food chain? Crabs! If you like scuttling around sideways everywhere, and pinching shit, then good luck with that. If you want to be a bronzed hercules/athena who crushes 2 different Crossfit seshes a day and sweats tallow, then you got to get on that beef train - like it or not.
posted by Anoplura at 7:44 PM on July 16, 2015 [18 favorites]
> Nothing makes an acid trip more pleasant than a big hunk of bloody, fatty meat.
Thanks for the flash-back, Item. Prom night, 1976. Who picked the Greek supper club? Glistening steak, ouzo, and line dancing!
posted by cleroy at 7:45 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Thanks for the flash-back, Item. Prom night, 1976. Who picked the Greek supper club? Glistening steak, ouzo, and line dancing!
posted by cleroy at 7:45 PM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
sweats tallow
sometimes i smell like bacon even when no bacon has been et, it is true
posted by poffin boffin at 7:49 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
sometimes i smell like bacon even when no bacon has been et, it is true
posted by poffin boffin at 7:49 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's a fine thread title.
posted by naju at 8:01 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by naju at 8:01 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Whiskey, on the other hand... carb free, pairs nicely with bacon.
Alcohol is C2H6O so it's a carbohydrate, I'm afraid.
posted by w0mbat at 8:04 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Alcohol is C2H6O so it's a carbohydrate, I'm afraid.
posted by w0mbat at 8:04 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ain't plants got life that is taken away to sustain life?
Cows eat plants before you eat cows.
posted by bitterpants at 8:23 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cows eat plants before you eat cows.
posted by bitterpants at 8:23 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
So if my doctor told me to cut down on red meat due to borderline high cholesterol, is that bullshit? Or no?
Because I love steak.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2015
Because I love steak.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2015
...2 different Crossfit seshes a day...
This is the most perfect use of the word 'sesh' I have ever seen.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:32 PM on July 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
This is the most perfect use of the word 'sesh' I have ever seen.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:32 PM on July 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
Two normal men volunteered to live solely on meat for one year, which gave us an unusual opportunity of studying the effects of this diet. tl;dr, they were fine.
The story here seems to change when you consider subjects with existing kidney damage, though, where it appears that consumption of meat protein sources can accelerate renal decline. It seems to hold for rats and mice as well.
I eat a good deal of meat and I'm not too concerned about it (and like other posters here I've also reaped the gastrointestinal benefits of moving to a high-protein, low-carb diet), but the "lol fock vegetables" tone of the FPP seems a little credulous.
posted by invitapriore at 8:45 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
The story here seems to change when you consider subjects with existing kidney damage, though, where it appears that consumption of meat protein sources can accelerate renal decline. It seems to hold for rats and mice as well.
I eat a good deal of meat and I'm not too concerned about it (and like other posters here I've also reaped the gastrointestinal benefits of moving to a high-protein, low-carb diet), but the "lol fock vegetables" tone of the FPP seems a little credulous.
posted by invitapriore at 8:45 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Veggies are what my dinner has for dinner.
posted by carping demon at 8:50 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by carping demon at 8:50 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
That photo does not suggest fine elastic skin or whatever he was rambling about. Dude looks like shit.
If some variation of what he's suggesting is helping people maintain their health, that's great. If you're not completely bored to death with the lack of variety in your diet, you have a far greater tolerance for that than I do.
I'd'a loved to have tried the product he made, too young, alas. But this was a too-long, couldn't-read mess, and hard to take seriously.
posted by wallabear at 8:58 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
If some variation of what he's suggesting is helping people maintain their health, that's great. If you're not completely bored to death with the lack of variety in your diet, you have a far greater tolerance for that than I do.
I'd'a loved to have tried the product he made, too young, alas. But this was a too-long, couldn't-read mess, and hard to take seriously.
posted by wallabear at 8:58 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
The man liked mayonnaise…that makes him a crackpot, in my book...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 9:22 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 9:22 PM on July 16, 2015
You don't make friends with salad.
Not without marinating them first!
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:47 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not without marinating them first!
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:47 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know about his diet, but I 100% respect the man for other reasons. I just got back from Chicago where I saw the three Fare Thee Well final Grateful Dead concerts. The Grateful Dead arguably owe their continued long term existence to Owsley aka Bear.
I started trading tapes of live shows back in 1976. Some were crowd tapes and many were "sound board" ones. I had listed to probably 50 different shows before I even attended one myself. I was hooked. Owsley decided, without much band say so, to tape every show. He just started doing it and gave the tapes to the band. He also let tapers plug directly into the sound board and record. As Jerry said, the music is a gift. Once we play the music it is yours to do with it as you wish. (Expect commercially that is).
Anyway, it is a long story and meanders so rather than make this thread about the Grateful Dead, I respectfully thank Bear and will try a ketosis type diet to lose the 50 pounds I need to lose.
Also, thank you for the whole LSD thing too, Owsley.
Bear's Choice
posted by AugustWest at 10:51 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I started trading tapes of live shows back in 1976. Some were crowd tapes and many were "sound board" ones. I had listed to probably 50 different shows before I even attended one myself. I was hooked. Owsley decided, without much band say so, to tape every show. He just started doing it and gave the tapes to the band. He also let tapers plug directly into the sound board and record. As Jerry said, the music is a gift. Once we play the music it is yours to do with it as you wish. (Expect commercially that is).
Anyway, it is a long story and meanders so rather than make this thread about the Grateful Dead, I respectfully thank Bear and will try a ketosis type diet to lose the 50 pounds I need to lose.
Also, thank you for the whole LSD thing too, Owsley.
Bear's Choice
posted by AugustWest at 10:51 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, invitapriore makes a very good point: If you're on a low-calorie diet and have existing renal issues, going high-protein is not for you. That way lies kidney failure.
posted by limeonaire at 11:07 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 11:07 PM on July 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Nihilist Spasm Band would agree: Baby Seals are Scrumptious. Celery is Obnoxious.
posted by not_on_display at 11:18 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by not_on_display at 11:18 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
That way lies kidney failure.
Buddha's objections and the innate tastiness of a burger aside, I do wonder how these folks manage to avoid gout. There's a reason they called gout the "disease of kings", given the expensive kind of diet that gives rise to it. Maybe the heart attacks and car crashes and empty bank accounts catch up to you, before the kidney stones and swollen joints and limbs do.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:51 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Buddha's objections and the innate tastiness of a burger aside, I do wonder how these folks manage to avoid gout. There's a reason they called gout the "disease of kings", given the expensive kind of diet that gives rise to it. Maybe the heart attacks and car crashes and empty bank accounts catch up to you, before the kidney stones and swollen joints and limbs do.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:51 PM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
"That way lies kidney failure."
In people & rats with kidney issues, pretty solidly established. Weirdly enough, opposite for felines/canines: high protein seems to help kidney function and increase time to mortality. Bizarre. I've been wondering if there's something about our carnivorous friends that could help people with kidney issues. Protein is useful. Meat is tasty.
...
[*] Sadly the veterinary diets are behind the science and still have restricted protein--restricting protein for kidney patients in people & rats is *so* overwhelmingly positive that, until recently, they didn't even bother to check, just went straight to the restricted protein diet.
posted by galadriel at 12:48 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
In people & rats with kidney issues, pretty solidly established. Weirdly enough, opposite for felines/canines: high protein seems to help kidney function and increase time to mortality. Bizarre. I've been wondering if there's something about our carnivorous friends that could help people with kidney issues. Protein is useful. Meat is tasty.
...
[*] Sadly the veterinary diets are behind the science and still have restricted protein--restricting protein for kidney patients in people & rats is *so* overwhelmingly positive that, until recently, they didn't even bother to check, just went straight to the restricted protein diet.
posted by galadriel at 12:48 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
"I have been eating the natural human dietary regime for over 47 years now. I do not eat anything whatsoever from vegetable sources."
Nice work buddy maybe if you had stuck to the natural human transportation regime of walking on your two legs you might not have died in that car crash.
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:25 AM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Nice work buddy maybe if you had stuck to the natural human transportation regime of walking on your two legs you might not have died in that car crash.
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:25 AM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
What does one do if you don't actually care for the taste of beef?
Lamb. Beautiful, succulent, spring grass fed lamb. Loin chops, leg and shoulder roasts, broths, koftas, and then later in the year some tasty two-tooth for warming stews and curries. Lots of fat and tasty tasty meat. In fact, I'm going to have some now.
posted by Thella at 2:05 AM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Lamb. Beautiful, succulent, spring grass fed lamb. Loin chops, leg and shoulder roasts, broths, koftas, and then later in the year some tasty two-tooth for warming stews and curries. Lots of fat and tasty tasty meat. In fact, I'm going to have some now.
posted by Thella at 2:05 AM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Reading this reminds me of my days working in the American Visionary Art Museum, where we'd often post the insane rambling screeds of our featured artists, either in their own fussy handwriting, spread out on acres of crinkly taped-together paper, or in neat modern typography posted across entire walls of the museum, and how the first thing many deranged/inspired people came up with was a comprehensive rule book that supposedly explained everything in the world. It's probably comforting to feel like you've solved the puzzle no one else can, in some way, but after you've read several dozen of these, they begin to sound awfully similar.
posted by sonascope at 3:06 AM on July 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 3:06 AM on July 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
I hope they only eat while driving top speed in an 18-wheeler, or they're missing half the key carbon-footprint-raising nutrients.
posted by davemee at 5:14 AM on July 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by davemee at 5:14 AM on July 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Cashews are poisonous? Huh. I guess I have a fuckload to learn.
posted by blucevalo at 5:34 AM on July 17, 2015
posted by blucevalo at 5:34 AM on July 17, 2015
Oh, but monoculture, methane, water ... even if more people could afford this, it's killing the planet, right?
I'm so confused.
In any case, i'm certainly never eating a cow again. My gut flora and fauna just going to have to learn to deal.
posted by allthinky at 5:42 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm so confused.
In any case, i'm certainly never eating a cow again. My gut flora and fauna just going to have to learn to deal.
posted by allthinky at 5:42 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Only meat? My stomach hurts just thinking about it. I love me some grilled cow an broiled lamb, but I get sick if I don't stuff myself with veggies from time to time.
posted by MissySedai at 5:53 AM on July 17, 2015
posted by MissySedai at 5:53 AM on July 17, 2015
Over a period of 47 years, my body has never shown any deficiencies whatsoever. I seem to have only aged a fraction of the amount seen in my contemporaries.
Imma pretty sure that was the result of the
ACID,ACID,ACID.
posted by jeremias at 5:54 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Imma pretty sure that was the result of the
ACID,ACID,ACID.
posted by jeremias at 5:54 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just don’t understand how people living this way, y'know, go to family dinners, or meet friends for lunch, or attend office potlucks, or invite people over to watch the game.
I mean, I get that a huge factor in obesity is social eating practices and pressures, but still. Only meat? I can’t imagine being invited over for lunch and saying “sure, we’d love to see you! We only eat beef, FYI!”
I think even vegans seem pretty reasonable in comparison to “beef-only” diets, because it is pretty easy and cheap to make some veggie dishes.
I know people with diet restrictions, and when I cook for groups I am happy to make vegetarian, vegan, and low-carb or no-carb dishes, because each of those categories contains about a million possibilities. But beef only, I dunno. Unless they just carry around ziplock baggies full of hunks of meat and when their hosts say “we made quiche full of fresh vegetables from our garden!” they say “no thanks, I’m all set”, I just don’t know how this would work on a social level.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:38 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, I get that a huge factor in obesity is social eating practices and pressures, but still. Only meat? I can’t imagine being invited over for lunch and saying “sure, we’d love to see you! We only eat beef, FYI!”
I think even vegans seem pretty reasonable in comparison to “beef-only” diets, because it is pretty easy and cheap to make some veggie dishes.
I know people with diet restrictions, and when I cook for groups I am happy to make vegetarian, vegan, and low-carb or no-carb dishes, because each of those categories contains about a million possibilities. But beef only, I dunno. Unless they just carry around ziplock baggies full of hunks of meat and when their hosts say “we made quiche full of fresh vegetables from our garden!” they say “no thanks, I’m all set”, I just don’t know how this would work on a social level.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:38 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also I can't understand eating beef when bison exists.
Two words: Bison Tartare.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:53 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Two words: Bison Tartare.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:53 AM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
So if my doctor told me to cut down on red meat due to borderline high cholesterol, is that bullshit? Or no?
Because I love steak.
Well that all depends. To what extent is the lipid hypothesis true for your family? What did they eat, how did they live, what stuff they die from?
People can thrive on all sorts of diets. All meat, no meat, Mediterranean, Okinawan, whatever.
The best way to figure out would be to get your blood work, change your diet and retest six months later. I did and saw that a high fat, high cholesterol diet improved my numbers, well into the protective range. Trying it is the only way to know, really.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:47 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Because I love steak.
Well that all depends. To what extent is the lipid hypothesis true for your family? What did they eat, how did they live, what stuff they die from?
People can thrive on all sorts of diets. All meat, no meat, Mediterranean, Okinawan, whatever.
The best way to figure out would be to get your blood work, change your diet and retest six months later. I did and saw that a high fat, high cholesterol diet improved my numbers, well into the protective range. Trying it is the only way to know, really.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:47 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
"I know people with diet restrictions, and when I cook for groups I am happy to make vegetarian, vegan, and low-carb or no-carb dishes"
I have a friend with severe celiac. She has problems even touching gluten--to avoid accidentally getting contact-poisoned, she has to feed her *cats* gluten-free (which I understand is tougher than you might think).
She pretty much does just bring her own food to social gatherings.
posted by galadriel at 7:56 AM on July 17, 2015
I have a friend with severe celiac. She has problems even touching gluten--to avoid accidentally getting contact-poisoned, she has to feed her *cats* gluten-free (which I understand is tougher than you might think).
She pretty much does just bring her own food to social gatherings.
posted by galadriel at 7:56 AM on July 17, 2015
If they insist on eating only beef, all the time, for every meal, they probably just don't get invited much.
posted by VTX at 8:32 AM on July 17, 2015
posted by VTX at 8:32 AM on July 17, 2015
Passing a croquet ball comes to mind.I was going to say that might make for a sticky wicket, but then learned that’s actually from cricket, not croquet.
posted by blueberry at 8:42 AM on July 17, 2015
re: the style of writing, it says it's a collection of posts made to a forum over a period of time; I don't think it was composed as an article.
Interesting, and I like when people find really niche ways of feeding themselves that works perfectly for them. I'm sure some people will read this and be inspired and it will help them. I discovered a way of eating that's entirely opposite to how I grew up (low carb, high fat), and I'm thrilled and happy and healthy. I like food in general too much to not eat grains occasionally, but my body feels better without them.
Food is so personal, and it's difficult not to evangelize. Especially when you see people struggling, and you managed to find a weird answer that's just perfect for you. It's probably not the answer for everyone, though. Nor should it be, this does seem to be a high-environmental-impact diet, and/or cost-prohibitive to do in a sustainable way. But so are many other diets. It's a huge privilege to opt out of the default diet of wherever you live, and seems massively blind to suggest it's any kind of moral failing to not do so. But sharing information and experiences can be helpful.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 8:49 AM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Interesting, and I like when people find really niche ways of feeding themselves that works perfectly for them. I'm sure some people will read this and be inspired and it will help them. I discovered a way of eating that's entirely opposite to how I grew up (low carb, high fat), and I'm thrilled and happy and healthy. I like food in general too much to not eat grains occasionally, but my body feels better without them.
Food is so personal, and it's difficult not to evangelize. Especially when you see people struggling, and you managed to find a weird answer that's just perfect for you. It's probably not the answer for everyone, though. Nor should it be, this does seem to be a high-environmental-impact diet, and/or cost-prohibitive to do in a sustainable way. But so are many other diets. It's a huge privilege to opt out of the default diet of wherever you live, and seems massively blind to suggest it's any kind of moral failing to not do so. But sharing information and experiences can be helpful.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 8:49 AM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have been a vegetarian for 31 years because I think it is better for the world, but I realize that I am constantly canceled out by people like this, or, for that matter, pretty much every meat eater.
It's like when I vote Democrat to cancel out the vote of a Republican, except it is more like I am voting Green to cancel out the votes of both Democrats and Republicans, as well as Libertarians, Socialist Party members, and every other party, no matter how fringe.
posted by maxsparber at 9:34 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's like when I vote Democrat to cancel out the vote of a Republican, except it is more like I am voting Green to cancel out the votes of both Democrats and Republicans, as well as Libertarians, Socialist Party members, and every other party, no matter how fringe.
posted by maxsparber at 9:34 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
so we were talking about the family that eats only beef and how what they said could possibly make any sense whatsoever and that is when we realized obviously they are werewolves
and I know you are thinking kyra if they are werewolves then wouldn't they be trying to avoid publicity to better hide their secret
but you are not thinking it through listen if your entire family eats only a single giant meal of beef once a day your friends are eventually going to notice and say why do you guys eat only a single giant meal of beef each day that's weird
and then they'd have to kill and eat them to keep their secret safe
but after doing that enough times clearly one of them said hey what if instead of killing and eating our friends we just say that we are on an ULTRA NO-CARB DIET and we do an interview and put it on a website and then the next time one of our friends ask we just say oh yeah we are on an ULTRA NO-CARB DIET yes even the kids they don't even like cake that's why they never eat it and then we point our friends to the website and laugh about it and we don't have to kill and eat them at all
come on this is obvious people it's just logic
posted by kyrademon at 9:58 AM on July 17, 2015 [16 favorites]
and I know you are thinking kyra if they are werewolves then wouldn't they be trying to avoid publicity to better hide their secret
but you are not thinking it through listen if your entire family eats only a single giant meal of beef once a day your friends are eventually going to notice and say why do you guys eat only a single giant meal of beef each day that's weird
and then they'd have to kill and eat them to keep their secret safe
but after doing that enough times clearly one of them said hey what if instead of killing and eating our friends we just say that we are on an ULTRA NO-CARB DIET and we do an interview and put it on a website and then the next time one of our friends ask we just say oh yeah we are on an ULTRA NO-CARB DIET yes even the kids they don't even like cake that's why they never eat it and then we point our friends to the website and laugh about it and we don't have to kill and eat them at all
come on this is obvious people it's just logic
posted by kyrademon at 9:58 AM on July 17, 2015 [16 favorites]
I've been vegetarian for 25 years and while I'm generally excited to try novel quackery if it promises eternal supple youth, none of these people want anything to do with vegetarian versions of their plan. I'm just supposed to break the 25 year habit on their say so (or the say so of a bunch of "cured" former vegans rhapsodizing about blood and the circle of life and the Pleistocene).
When asked if maybe the biochemistry could be divorced from the meaty meat meat talk, they dig in and start dissing vegetarianism directly. But as far as I can tell all their arguments about why vegetarianism is actually terrible come down to a mixture of willful ignorance, inability to do arithmetic, or chortles and snark about "fuck other people / tasty animals are for eating" which just makes me feel like I'm talking to a toddler.
posted by ead at 10:15 AM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
When asked if maybe the biochemistry could be divorced from the meaty meat meat talk, they dig in and start dissing vegetarianism directly. But as far as I can tell all their arguments about why vegetarianism is actually terrible come down to a mixture of willful ignorance, inability to do arithmetic, or chortles and snark about "fuck other people / tasty animals are for eating" which just makes me feel like I'm talking to a toddler.
posted by ead at 10:15 AM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
>What does one do if you don't actually care for the taste of beef?
Lamb. Beautiful, succulent, spring grass fed lamb. Loin chops, leg and shoulder roasts, broths, koftas, and then later in the year some tasty two-tooth for warming stews and curries. Lots of fat and tasty tasty meat. In fact, I'm going to have some now.
I learned very early that I was no vegetarian, after seeing sweet innocent little spring lambkins shot and butchered on my grandparent's farm, then eating one of the legs roasted to perfection 3 hours later, with no feelings of remorse for little lambkins and wanting to do it all over again then next day.
I like beef, but tender spring lamb is as delicious as red meat gets.
In fact, I am going to the butchers tomorrow. While since I had some lambkins.
posted by Pouteria at 10:32 AM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Lamb. Beautiful, succulent, spring grass fed lamb. Loin chops, leg and shoulder roasts, broths, koftas, and then later in the year some tasty two-tooth for warming stews and curries. Lots of fat and tasty tasty meat. In fact, I'm going to have some now.
I learned very early that I was no vegetarian, after seeing sweet innocent little spring lambkins shot and butchered on my grandparent's farm, then eating one of the legs roasted to perfection 3 hours later, with no feelings of remorse for little lambkins and wanting to do it all over again then next day.
I like beef, but tender spring lamb is as delicious as red meat gets.
In fact, I am going to the butchers tomorrow. While since I had some lambkins.
posted by Pouteria at 10:32 AM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Nothing beats the eat a little of everything diet. We're omnivorous apes and we evolved eating what we could get, which was a little of this and a little of that. Chocolate, bitter herbs, meat, fish, fruits, weeds, vegetables, grains, whatever, man. Don't deny your ancestral heritage.
posted by ChuckRamone at 11:01 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ChuckRamone at 11:01 AM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
so we were talking about the family that eats only beef and how what they said could possibly make any sense whatsoever and that is when we realized obviously they are werewolves...
This doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about werewolves to dispute it.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 11:09 AM on July 17, 2015
This doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about werewolves to dispute it.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 11:09 AM on July 17, 2015
I currently eat roughly along the lines of the Michael Pollen version of the title quote, but I find these outliers fascinating. Though the sample size is so small and anecdotal. Anyone have some good pointers to the inuit studies? Long term effects?
I'm curious how this discussion will change once cultured meat is available. That potentially sidesteps a large portion of the moral / environmental case against meat consumption.
posted by lucidprose at 11:09 AM on July 17, 2015
I'm curious how this discussion will change once cultured meat is available. That potentially sidesteps a large portion of the moral / environmental case against meat consumption.
posted by lucidprose at 11:09 AM on July 17, 2015
Nothing beats the eat a little of everything diet. We're omnivorous apes and we evolved eating what we could get, which was a little of this and a little of that. Chocolate, bitter herbs, meat, fish, fruits, weeds, vegetables, grains, whatever, man. Don't deny your ancestral heritage.
Like the Inuit diet referenced above, there seems to be lots of examples of communities where there was very little day-to-day variety, just the same meals eaten again and again. So it's not really contrary to our ancestral heritage to eat narrowly. Humans have been able to adapt to a huge variety of diets, not necessarily a diet of huge variety.
posted by skewed at 12:40 PM on July 17, 2015
Like the Inuit diet referenced above, there seems to be lots of examples of communities where there was very little day-to-day variety, just the same meals eaten again and again. So it's not really contrary to our ancestral heritage to eat narrowly. Humans have been able to adapt to a huge variety of diets, not necessarily a diet of huge variety.
posted by skewed at 12:40 PM on July 17, 2015
I'm talking since the beginning of our species. Most people are not descended from groups that lived in such extreme conditions and ate such limited diets, which happened fairly recently in the evolution of our species.
posted by ChuckRamone at 12:44 PM on July 17, 2015
posted by ChuckRamone at 12:44 PM on July 17, 2015
I have borderline high cholesterol. Is it safe to go meat only? Specifically beef? My family has a history of diabetes so it's very appealing to me.
I know you're not my doctor just looking to see if there is some new common knowledge (similar to how the cholesterol in eggs is no longer considered all bad).
posted by laptolain at 2:59 PM on July 17, 2015
I know you're not my doctor just looking to see if there is some new common knowledge (similar to how the cholesterol in eggs is no longer considered all bad).
posted by laptolain at 2:59 PM on July 17, 2015
It seems like there's an increasingly popular notion that high levels of dietary sugar correlate with low HDL and high triglyceride blood levels, so make of that what you will. On its own that doesn't imply anything about about how direct cholesterol consumption affects HDL/LDL blood levels, and I don't really know anything about what the current thinking is there.
posted by invitapriore at 3:51 PM on July 17, 2015
posted by invitapriore at 3:51 PM on July 17, 2015
I have borderline high cholesterol. Is it safe to go meat only? Specifically beef? My family has a history of diabetes so it's very appealing to me.
I know you're not my doctor just looking to see if there is some new common knowledge (similar to how the cholesterol in eggs is no longer considered all bad).
Well I personally don't eat all-meat: I like taters, veggies, and booze too much.
But consider: the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 1980 edition I have open here on my desktop. On the subject of cholesterol, it waffles (even back then!) but still says that some people should avoid it and recommends that the American population "as a whole" reduce its consumption.
The 2015 edition of the DGAC flatly states: "Cholesterol is not considered a nutrient of concern for overconsumption." (vs e.g. saturated fat and sodium, which are). Wikipedia's summary says also: "In February 2015, reversing decades-long recommendations, the USDA Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee recommended repealing the guideline that Americans limit cholesterol intake, because dietary cholesterol intake was not found to correlate well with serum cholesterol levels. The committee found strong evidence that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fat would lower LDL cholesterol levels, and that low-fat diets which replace saturated fat with carbohydrates would lower both LDL and HDL cholesterol levels."
So, there's some food for thought (heh).
posted by mrbigmuscles at 4:31 PM on July 17, 2015
I know you're not my doctor just looking to see if there is some new common knowledge (similar to how the cholesterol in eggs is no longer considered all bad).
Well I personally don't eat all-meat: I like taters, veggies, and booze too much.
But consider: the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 1980 edition I have open here on my desktop. On the subject of cholesterol, it waffles (even back then!) but still says that some people should avoid it and recommends that the American population "as a whole" reduce its consumption.
The 2015 edition of the DGAC flatly states: "Cholesterol is not considered a nutrient of concern for overconsumption." (vs e.g. saturated fat and sodium, which are). Wikipedia's summary says also: "In February 2015, reversing decades-long recommendations, the USDA Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee recommended repealing the guideline that Americans limit cholesterol intake, because dietary cholesterol intake was not found to correlate well with serum cholesterol levels. The committee found strong evidence that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fat would lower LDL cholesterol levels, and that low-fat diets which replace saturated fat with carbohydrates would lower both LDL and HDL cholesterol levels."
So, there's some food for thought (heh).
posted by mrbigmuscles at 4:31 PM on July 17, 2015
The committee found strong evidence that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fat would lower LDL cholesterol levels, and that low-fat diets which replace saturated fat with carbohydrates would lower both LDL and HDL cholesterol levels.
This still implicates meat unless it's super-lean, though, no?
posted by invitapriore at 5:04 PM on July 17, 2015
This still implicates meat unless it's super-lean, though, no?
posted by invitapriore at 5:04 PM on July 17, 2015
I would seem so. It probably also varies among different sub-populations - that's a generalization aimed at 350 million people, remember. Plus, other stuff comes into play. Eating lots of fatty meat, potatoes, milk, eggs, etc might not be so bad if you break your ass in the gym 10x a week or work on a farm, but if you're sedentary, work a high-stress job, don't get enough sleep, picked the wrong parents, and still eat like an old time German strongman... you're gonna have a bad time...
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:51 PM on July 17, 2015
posted by mrbigmuscles at 7:51 PM on July 17, 2015
Do those "zero carb" children appear to be physically stunted to anyone else? I would have guessed several years younger than 8 and 10.
posted by Scram at 11:11 PM on July 17, 2015
posted by Scram at 11:11 PM on July 17, 2015
Yep. Oh, and fuck diabetes.
This, combined with the interview statement by Owsley Stanley that "[p]rior to injectable insulin diabetic people were able to live long and healthy lives on a zero carb diet," reveals a common misunderstanding of a type of diabetes that millions of people suffer from.
Type 1 diabetes is not caused by anything people eat or do not eat. It's an autoimmune disease in which the body no longer produces insulin because the immune system has destroyed the body's insulin-producing cells.
Yes, more insulin is needed for a higher-carb than for a lower-carb diet, but the body requires insulin even if no carbohydrates are ingested.
Stanley's misstatement is just grotesque. Type 1 diabetes was a death sentence prior to injectable insulin. Children placed on pre-insulin regimens of zero-carb diets and fasting were soon skeletal, and within several years dead. (This being an improvement over being dead within one year.) A zero-carb diet does not cure Type 1 diabetes because the body requires some insulin even on such a diet.
Every Type 1 diabetic requires injectable insulin, no matter what they're eating, and Type 1 diabetes cannot be prevented or cured by diet.
posted by palliser at 6:16 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
This, combined with the interview statement by Owsley Stanley that "[p]rior to injectable insulin diabetic people were able to live long and healthy lives on a zero carb diet," reveals a common misunderstanding of a type of diabetes that millions of people suffer from.
Type 1 diabetes is not caused by anything people eat or do not eat. It's an autoimmune disease in which the body no longer produces insulin because the immune system has destroyed the body's insulin-producing cells.
Yes, more insulin is needed for a higher-carb than for a lower-carb diet, but the body requires insulin even if no carbohydrates are ingested.
Stanley's misstatement is just grotesque. Type 1 diabetes was a death sentence prior to injectable insulin. Children placed on pre-insulin regimens of zero-carb diets and fasting were soon skeletal, and within several years dead. (This being an improvement over being dead within one year.) A zero-carb diet does not cure Type 1 diabetes because the body requires some insulin even on such a diet.
Every Type 1 diabetic requires injectable insulin, no matter what they're eating, and Type 1 diabetes cannot be prevented or cured by diet.
posted by palliser at 6:16 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Palliser, while you are right that Type I diabetics aren't saved by the diet, this does not make Stanley's statement, or my comment you quoted, wrong in any sense, since there are diabetics -- Type 2 diabetics are diabetics, you know -- who can live long healthy lives without insulin.
The distinction between what were then known as "fat" and "thin" diabetics was not really understood until some years after the introduction of insulin therapy. At the time it was only known that people who were diagnosed in adulthood had much better outcomes than people diagnosed as children. The takeway is that diabetes is not really a "disease," if you define it as high blood sugar. It is actually a symptom common to two (and today we know maybe three or more, with MODY) different diseases.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 AM on July 19, 2015
The distinction between what were then known as "fat" and "thin" diabetics was not really understood until some years after the introduction of insulin therapy. At the time it was only known that people who were diagnosed in adulthood had much better outcomes than people diagnosed as children. The takeway is that diabetes is not really a "disease," if you define it as high blood sugar. It is actually a symptom common to two (and today we know maybe three or more, with MODY) different diseases.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 AM on July 19, 2015
The purpose of my comment was to remind people that when they imply that a new diet will cure or prevent diabetes, they are ignoring Type 1 diabetics, of whom there are millions. You now suggest that you should just be able to use the word "diabetics" to mean "Type 2 diabetics," which proves my point that it is important to remember that you haven't presented any kind of solution for a vast number of sufferers whose disease does in fact share the same name. If you mean "Type 2 diabetics," say that. When you say "diabetics" or "diabetes" but are excluding Type 1's, you are in fact speaking misleadingly.
posted by palliser at 9:25 AM on July 19, 2015
posted by palliser at 9:25 AM on July 19, 2015
Type one diabetes accounts for about 5% of all cases of diabetes, and when you count pre-diabetics, around 99% of people affected by diabetes are affected by type 2 diabetes.
You can get annoyed about it if you want, but this level of precision in general conversation is completely normal, and not misleading. When people say "diabetes" they generally mean type 2 diabetes, especially in an informal context.
posted by skewed at 10:46 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
You can get annoyed about it if you want, but this level of precision in general conversation is completely normal, and not misleading. When people say "diabetes" they generally mean type 2 diabetes, especially in an informal context.
posted by skewed at 10:46 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
It may be "normal" in your experience, but it is a direct harm to people who suffer from Type 1 and whose disease is misunderstood because of a general misconception, born from such imprecision, that diabetics eat too much sugar and can be cured through diet. I am not "annoyed," I'm outraged at the harm you are doing to Type 1 diabetics.
posted by palliser at 11:23 AM on July 19, 2015
posted by palliser at 11:23 AM on July 19, 2015
You can get annoyed about it if you want,
Is this seriously a "stop being so sensitive" response? I thought that was generally considered poor form when presented with a good-faith attempt to educate people on an important issue -- one that Stanley at worst misunderstood and at best communicated in a very, very clumsy way. We can do better.
posted by chinston at 11:30 AM on July 19, 2015
Is this seriously a "stop being so sensitive" response? I thought that was generally considered poor form when presented with a good-faith attempt to educate people on an important issue -- one that Stanley at worst misunderstood and at best communicated in a very, very clumsy way. We can do better.
posted by chinston at 11:30 AM on July 19, 2015
The article is about low carb diets. It is as accurate to say that low carb diets can be an effective treatment for diabetes instead of insulin as it is to say that aspirin is an effective treatment for fever. There are obviously cases where both statements are wrong; if your fever is due to Ebola aspirin won't do shit. But in general, the major claim is that there is non-pharmaceutical treatment available which will work for a lot of diabetics which most of them don't know about.
If the FP were about diabetes as a class of illnesses or particularly Type I or about insulin therapy specifically then more precision would be in order, but in context the statement is perfectly reasonable as it stands. The vast majority of people who have or know someone with Type I diabetes will already know the difference without having it explained to them and for everyone else it's off point.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:42 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If the FP were about diabetes as a class of illnesses or particularly Type I or about insulin therapy specifically then more precision would be in order, but in context the statement is perfectly reasonable as it stands. The vast majority of people who have or know someone with Type I diabetes will already know the difference without having it explained to them and for everyone else it's off point.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:42 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Palliser was a bit aggressive, but it seems to me they're probably quite right in what they say. People arguing they should be allowed to be as sloppy as they like aren't don't seem to be speaking in the good faith I'm used to from this site. Perhaps what you meant to say was something more like "I think most people know that diet changes are only effective for type 2 so hopefully they understood my meaning from context, but yes you're quite right, I used diabetes as short hand for type 2 diabetes, and that was a mistake." So I'm going to mentally substitute that for what you said.
posted by The Monkey at 9:29 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Monkey at 9:29 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
« Older You're no Ferdinand Magellan | Only cats can handle this much bling Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:12 PM on July 16, 2015 [5 favorites]