finally letting go of the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern pride
July 17, 2015 12:28 PM   Subscribe

"The Confederate flag didn't get hijacked. It took off from Defending Slavery Airport and landed, right on time, at Defending Segregation Terminal." Jay Smooth: 12 symbols of Southern pride actually worth celebrating.

(Jay Smooth previously.)
posted by NoraReed (147 comments total) 36 users marked this as a favorite
 
Can't watch audio/video right now. Are Mark Twain and Flannery O'Conner on the list? Don't know if people can actually be considered symbols, too, or not.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:38 PM on July 17, 2015


A thing he obviously got at by mentioning blues and jazz and Zora Neale Hurston, and that is always worth remembering, is that if you want to be proud of Southern culture, you've got some of the absolute highlights of African American culture to choose from.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:39 PM on July 17, 2015 [19 favorites]


Ugh, why does everything have to be a video this days? Can't anyone write down a list anymore?
posted by octothorpe at 12:40 PM on July 17, 2015 [98 favorites]


Are Mark Twain and Flannery O'Conner on the list? Don't know if people can actually be considered symbols, too, or not.

Zora Neale Hurston is the sole literary representative. There's too many to list of course, but I'm surprised "Southern Literature" didn't make the cut.
posted by echocollate at 12:44 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm gonna feel silly if you're just kidding, octothorpe, but in case you're legitimately griping and not familar with him, Jay Smooth's medium is video; he has a really sharp delivery and a distinct editing aesthetic that underscores the message of his work. I'm sure it'd be good written down, as far as that goes, but this isn't someone just reading a written piece into a webcam for no reason.
posted by cortex at 12:45 PM on July 17, 2015 [25 favorites]


Ugh, why does everything have to be a video this days? Can't anyone write down a list anymore?

Because Jay Smooth is a performer. This is WHAT HE DOES. Also, because when you write these things down as a list you get a bunch of people who also didn't bother watching/reading the post doing Old Man Yells At Cloud about "listicles" instead.
posted by NoraReed at 12:46 PM on July 17, 2015 [18 favorites]




eh, i don't think a transcript is really asking too much of anyone.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:50 PM on July 17, 2015 [34 favorites]


Related: petition calls for carvings of Outkast to be added to giant Confederate monument.
posted by item at 3:48 PM on July 17


It would make the laser light show make a lot more sense.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:55 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


Because Jay Smooth is a performer. This is WHAT HE DOES.

That's cool and all. But, it's hard to hear what he's saying when my computer at work doesn't have speakers.

Also, I have a friend who is deaf. A transcript wouldn't be a whole lot to ask.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:55 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


once someone makes a transcript I will post it but seriously it is not hard to email something to yourself to watch later when you have speakers even if it delays your hot takes so they are merely lukewarm
posted by NoraReed at 12:57 PM on July 17, 2015 [15 favorites]


For the video impaired:

1. sweet tea
2. BBQ
3. the word "y'all"
4. all the richness of Cajun culture
5. all the richness of Creole culture
6. Zora Neale Hurston
7. the inventors of country music
8. the creators of blues music
9. the creators of jazz music
10. Little Richard, the original king of rock n roll
11. Elvis Presley, the unoriginal king of rock n roll
12. Dolly Parton
posted by item at 12:59 PM on July 17, 2015 [40 favorites]


Thank you Item.
There is a lot to celebrate there, indeed. But its hard to make an icon out of any of them.
How about a magnolia flag?
posted by SLC Mom at 1:02 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Most of the video was about how the idea of an icon for a place as diverse as the South is counterproductive.
The list as a list is kinda silly looking.
posted by Seamus at 1:04 PM on July 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


(needs more Willie Nelson)
posted by item at 1:04 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


(also needs more Dirty South)
posted by item at 1:05 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


7. the inventors of country music

"Modern" Country music or GOOD country music?

Because Modern Country can die in a fire.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:06 PM on July 17, 2015 [9 favorites]


Jay Smooth is awesome, but as he himself notes, it's presumptuous for a New Yorker to be making up this list. Not a big deal, it's just very, very, very odd.

I'd highly recommend the essay "Dixie is Dead" and "Look Away Dixieland" from The Bitter Southerner.

Anyone else have any good takes on southern pride from people who have lived in the south?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:08 PM on July 17, 2015 [17 favorites]


[Folks, seriously, save the "I dislike video as a format" stuff for a thread about video-as-a-format and don't keep digging in on that in a random thread. You don't have to like a thing or have time for a thing, but it's not great to derail a thread just to talk about that.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on July 17, 2015 [15 favorites]


Thank you Item.
There is a lot to celebrate there, indeed. But its hard to make an icon out of any of them.
How about a magnolia flag?


I like the fleur de lis.
posted by Trochanter at 1:12 PM on July 17, 2015


Reading "Look Away, Dixie Land" made me realize that a northerner writing the list would OF COURSE leave off boiled peanuts. No trip back to the South is complete without some for me.
posted by Seamus at 1:13 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


This is fantastic. It doesn't happen enough. Don't throw stones at the Knights of Columbus -- they'll just throw stones back. Let's talk about Bartolome de las Casas instead.

Because Jay Smooth is a performer. This is WHAT HE DOES.

I took it as a sarcastic joke about Buzzfeed-style listicles...?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:14 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


I would gladly fly a flag that featured Dolly Parton, Little Richard, Sweet Tea and the word "y'all" on it.
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:18 PM on July 17, 2015 [19 favorites]


Pogo_Fuzzybutt, by "Modern Country" do you mean all artists currently recording on country labels, or country artists who get airplay on Top 40 or Country stations?
posted by KathrynT at 1:19 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]




...a northerner writing the list would OF COURSE leave off boiled peanuts

EVERYONE should leave off boiled peanuts and eat a piece of peach cobbler instead.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:20 PM on July 17, 2015 [9 favorites]


Confederate flag is gone. Is New Orleans' iconic fleur de lis next?

Well that sucks.
posted by Trochanter at 1:22 PM on July 17, 2015


Biscuits.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 1:22 PM on July 17, 2015 [11 favorites]


Pogo_Fuzzybutt, by "Modern Country" do you mean all artists currently recording on country labels, or country artists who get airplay on Top 40 or Country stations?

"Modern country" usually means the latter, such as this monstrosity straight from the bowels of hell (and not the cool hell where heavy metal comes from, either).
posted by item at 1:23 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


Because Jay Smooth is a performer. This is WHAT HE DOES.

Well, Jay Smooth is a treasure and wonderful wonderful performer. So he's kind of an exception. He can explain shit to me any time, and I will cheerfully listen.

I am sad that biscuits don't make the list. The South should just go for a flag with a biscuit on it. Because everyone loves biscuits. A good biscuit heals the soul. It brings us all together into one happy community (with attendant heart disease from all the butter, but you can't have everything).
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:24 PM on July 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


EVERYONE should leave off boiled peanuts and eat a piece of peach cobbler instead.

Peach cobbler on a four hour car drive.
Peach cobbler and beer.
Peach cobbler while hiking up a bald.

Hmmmmmmmm . . . .
NOPE!

Peach cobbler has a place but it ain't no boiled peanuts!
posted by Seamus at 1:25 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


As a Southerner, the things I have pride about: sweet tea, Waffle Houses everywhere, biscuits, my grandmother's coconut cake, sitting on the porch on a summer evening, the drive along Highway 90 from Biloxi to New Orleans, the smell of sea salt as soon as you get about an hour from Charleston, memories of pickin'n'grinnin' nights at my grandparents when I was a little girl, banana pudding...
posted by Kitteh at 1:26 PM on July 17, 2015 [13 favorites]


Goddamn, now I miss the roadside vendors with the boiled peanuts.

And a nice sweating Coke.
posted by qcubed at 1:26 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


The problem with biscuits is that arguments about them would devolve into fisticuffs right quick.
The only correct Southern biscuit is the one your grandma made.
posted by Seamus at 1:27 PM on July 17, 2015 [6 favorites]


I occasionally wonder if, when the confederate flag reappeared, everybody totally knew it was to intimidate and threaten blacks and associated civil rights protestors but publicly said "Oh no, it's all about our SOUTHERN HERITAGE *wink wink, nudge nudge*"...

...and now, decades later, the lie has been told for so long that lots of people mistake it for the truth and don't understand why somebody would find it offensive.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 1:27 PM on July 17, 2015 [11 favorites]


the listing going on right now is missing the entire back half of the video where he talks about dat racism.
...every part of southern history and culture, even the most beautiful, is still in some way intertwined with the legacy of white supremacy. and that means any symbol that seeks to be pure and untouched by that legacy is not sustainable. so the real challenge is how to sustain a sense of pride that incorporates that history instead of running from it. and that's a hell of a challenge but i think it's also an opportunity because here's the thing, that legacy of racism is not a southern legacy, it's an american legacy. all us yankees are every bit as complicit and connected to that history.

but one side effect of the persistence of the confederate flag down there is that it lets us go under the radar with our denial of history up here. it lets us keep getting away with ben afflecking that history away instead of wrestling with it like we need to. so i really believe that if enough people let go of that confederate flag and start grabbing a hold of everything it means to be a southerner and especially everything it means to be a white southerner, and they join in with everyone down there who's been doing that work, the south could go from being the scapegoat to being the ones who make us stop slacking. they could set a new standard for the work we all have to do of forging a true american pride, a true american identity that's built upon grappling with the whole of our history instead of running from it.

so whatever new symbols people choose, whether it's pecan pie or duke ellington symphonies, i'm hoping that y'all can make the most of this turning point, get rid of those new history books in texas, and start making us yankees play catchup.
posted by twist my arm at 1:28 PM on July 17, 2015 [32 favorites]


Driving to Asheville from Gainesville over the holiday, my wife was rather entertained that I foreswore all of the semi-permanent boiled peanut stands because the only real boiled peanuts come from a dude on the side of the road with a beat up pick-up and a turkey fryer or oil drum fire.
posted by Seamus at 1:28 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


As a Southern white guy, I found this whole thing wonderful. The unflinching insistence on the irredeemable shittiness of the stars and bars, the celebration of the South's many wonders, the acknowledgement of racism as a broader American problem, and the recognition that every Southern symbol, no matter how innocuous, is fraught because everything Southern is tainted by racism... he really hit all the relevant points. 5 stars.

But obviously the true Southern symbol is shrimp and grits.
posted by saladin at 1:29 PM on July 17, 2015 [9 favorites]


The South already has a tradition that's a source of pride to both blacks and whites. It's called college football and it ranks just below Jesus and mama on the short list of things Southerners love most.
posted by echocollate at 1:29 PM on July 17, 2015 [6 favorites]


The closest I've ever been to the South is transferring through DFW on my way to go skiing, but I love y'all as a gender-neutral alternative to you guys for the 2nd person plural.
posted by Kreiger at 1:30 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


The problem with biscuits is that arguments about them would devolve into fisticuffs right quick. The only correct Southern biscuit is the one your grandma made.

whatever the ones at taco bell are just as good if not better
posted by item at 1:30 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


Ah, high school and college football.

Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, and sucks if you don't play or care.
posted by qcubed at 1:31 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


As a Northerner raised in the South, I can attest to Jay Smooth's assertion that the South has allowed Northerner's racism to fly under the radar. My grandmother was a bitter, racist person from The City. Then and now, the South gets called out and the North doesn't.
Maybe he's right. Maybe the South will someday be able to help us all deal with our past.

(And football? Isn't the whole damn place steeped in it enough already? The South . . . where people can have a half hour conversation with you about football without ever realizing that you never made a comment and have no idea what they are talking about.)
posted by Seamus at 1:34 PM on July 17, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh lord yes and try living in Dallas without giving a fuck about football. Somehow the stares you get are both hostile AND blank. It's like living in Green Bay and not caring about cheese. Or football.
posted by item at 1:38 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


Isn't the whole damn place steeped in it enough already?

Isn't popular regional appeal the whole point of the exercise?
posted by echocollate at 1:38 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: “Anyone else have any good takes on southern pride from people who have lived in the south?”
“Go Tell It on the Mountain” by Charles McNair also from The Bitter Southerner is another essay worth the time it will take to read it.

Something else I only found recently and have linked someplace here in the last few weeks is the article “Lost Cause Religion” by David S. Williams on the New Georgia Encyclopedia website.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:39 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


I mean, I loathe grits and sweet tea so if we're crossing things off based on personal preference both of those gotta go.
posted by echocollate at 1:40 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


Isn't popular regional appeal the whole point of the exercise?

Is it regional?
And how could you make it any more of an icon than it already is?

I mean, I loathe grits and sweet tea so if we're crossing things off based on personal preference both of those gotta go.

So that leaves us at the beginning again.
Or we can ask the question "Does the South need some of icon?"
The South is the South. Is it going to change because the racists, crypto-racists, confused idiots can't fly a flag?
posted by Seamus at 1:43 PM on July 17, 2015


A transcript, starting from the Youtube subtitles, and with a bit of editing and formatting:
Okay, so I'm about to do the most presumptuous thing a New Yorker could possibly do and talk about Southern pride. We are at a turning point culturally where Southerners are finally moving closer to letting go of the Confederate flag as a symbol of Southern pride. And I don't mean all Southerners because I know there are many, including many white Southerners, who never took it as a source of pride, and I know there are some other Southerners who just use it as a cloak for being straight up racist and I'm not talking about them because they can go kick rocks—I don't care how they feel—but I believe there is a third group who, through a mix of miseducation and willful denial of history, have grown up seeing the Confederate flag as a symbol of pride that is separate from the legacy of white supremacy that it actually represents in the real world. And these are the people that I've never understood, because even as a New Yorker I know that the South has a rich culture and history. It gives you so many things you could be proud I of without lying to yourself. There's no reason to settle for that flag and keep telling yourself that it got hijacked. It didn't get hijacked; it took off from Defending Slavery Airport and landed right on schedule in Defending Segregation Terminal. There's no reason to lie to yourself about that when you got so many real traditions and inventions and people that are worthy of genuine pride. So this week I asked all my Southern friends and followers online to help us make the most of this turning point by compiling a list of all the things you could be proud of instead of the Confederate flag.
  • Number One: By far the most popular most cited historical cultural contribution on this list: sweet tea. Why would anyone cling to the Confederate flag when they could be reveling in the deliciousness of sweet tea.
  • Number Two on the list: Barbecue. Hello, self-explanatory.
  • Number Three on the list: The word y'all. One of the most beautiful versatile words in the English language. It creates community. There'd be no hip-hop without the word y'all.
  • Number Four: All the richness of Cajun culture.
  • Number Five: All the richness of Creole culture, which I've been asked to remind you is not the same thing.
  • Number Six: Zora Neale Hurston.
  • Number Seven: The inventors of country.
  • Number Eight: The creators of blues music.
  • Number Nine: The creators of jazz music.
  • Ten: The original King of Rock and Roll. [Picture of Little Richard]
  • Eleven: The unoriginal King of Rock and Roll. [Picture of Elvis Presley]
  • And Number Twelve: My personal choice is a true cultural icon, a bona fide creative genius, the leader of a truly righteous rebellion against tyrannical authority, and the creator of their own sovereign state within the South that continues to thrive to this day. I am talking about none other than Dolly Parton.
Right there you have twelve impeccable choices, and those are just the tip of the iceberg. But what also came out of that conversation is that it's impossible to find a pure and perfect representation of Southern pride because there are so many flavors and regions and subcultures that you can't pick one thing to represent everybody and because every part of Southern history and culture, even the most beautiful, is still in some way intertwined with the legacy of white supremacy, and that means any symbol that seeks to be purer and untouched by that legacy is not sustainable. So the real challenge is how to sustain a sense of pride that incorporates that history instead of running from it, and that's a helluva challenge, but i think is also an opportunity. Because it is the fact that legacy of racism is not a Southern legacy—it's an American Legacy. All us Yankees are every bit as complicit and connected to that history, but one side effect the persistence of the Confederate flag down there is that it left us go under the radar with our denial of history up here. It lets us keep getting away with Ben Affleck-ing that history away instead of wrestling with it like we need to. So I really believe that if enough people let go of that Confederate flag and start grabbing ahold of everything it means to be a Southerner, and especially everything it means to be a white Southerner, and they join in with everyone down there who's been doing that work, the South could go from being the scapegoat to being the ones who make us stop slacking. They could set a new standard for the work we all have to do of forging a true American pride, a true American identity, that's built upon grappling with the whole of our history instead of running from it. So whatever new symbols people choose—whether it's pecan pie or Duke Ellington symphonies—I'm hoping that y'all can keep on making the most of this turning point. Get rid of those new history books in Texas, and make us Yankees start having to play catch up.
posted by JiBB at 1:49 PM on July 17, 2015 [25 favorites]


Is it regional?

My subjective take is that the South as a region has a special relationship with college football.

And how could you make it any more of an icon than it already is?

Well, nobody's talking about really putting sweet tea on a flag.

So that leaves us at the beginning again.
Or we can ask the question "Does the South need some of icon?"
The South is the South. Is it going to change because the racists, crypto-racists, confused idiots can't fly a flag?


Nope and I sure hope so.
posted by echocollate at 1:50 PM on July 17, 2015


Most of the video was about how the idea of an icon for a place as diverse as the South is counterproductive.
The list as a list is kinda silly looking.


Yeah, the idea that regions as distinct as the Mississippi delta, New Orleans, all of Texas, Appalachia, and Atlanta, to name just a small handful of places, have a unified culture has always struck me as a little baffling. That's already 5 different answers to "what goes into barbecue sauce", ferchrissakes. Especially since the signifiers chosen for "Southern culture" tend to be, well, really white. I think it's mainly a convenient shortcut for us vs. them rhetoric, whether it's coming from "heritage, not hate" types or from western/northern liberals sneering at poor white Southerners.
posted by kagredon at 1:50 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


whatever the ones at taco bell are just as good if not better

Them's fightin' words.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:52 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


The problem with putting sweet tea on a flag is you can't tell the difference between sweet and unsweet tea.

You could put one with a bunch of non-dissolving sugar stuck in the bottom and a spoon for a symbol for irritated southernerns who forgot that when you just order "iced tea" it isn't sweet by default and instead tastes like disappointment and eternal stirring.
posted by NoraReed at 1:52 PM on July 17, 2015 [15 favorites]


whatever the ones at taco bell are just as good if not better

You are a bad person who should feel bad
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:55 PM on July 17, 2015 [7 favorites]


The problem with putting sweet tea on a flag is you can't tell the difference between sweet and unsweet tea.

Yea, but I love unsweet tea. Maybe we just call it iced tea to appeal to both tea camps and chase the heathen non-iced-tea-drinkers out of town.
posted by echocollate at 1:55 PM on July 17, 2015


What's wrong with the sugar sickness in a glass?
posted by qcubed at 2:01 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


3. the word "y'all"

Reminds me of my favourite "North vs. South" joke.
Two women sitting on a plane travelling. One woman from New York, the other woman from Georgia.
Woman from the south: "Where ya'll from?"
Woman from north: "Where I'm from we know to not end a sentence with a stranded preposition."
Woman from the south: "Where ya'll from....bitch?"
posted by Fizz at 2:04 PM on July 17, 2015 [22 favorites]


Maybe we just call it iced tea to appeal to both tea camps and chase the heathen non-iced-tea-drinkers out of town.

Might could.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:07 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


Peach cobbler on a four hour car drive.
Peach cobbler and beer.
Peach cobbler while hiking up a bald.


They don't have coolers and tupperware where you come from?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:08 PM on July 17, 2015


It's a lot harder to just reach into a tupperware container, grab a small, bite-sized piece that you can crack in one hand, and then pop the thing into your mouth.

I tried this once with apple cobbler, and it did not end well.
posted by qcubed at 2:10 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Based on this map and this one I was ready to suggest a flag that just says "Damn Y'all" but Appalachia is apparently not on board.
posted by radiomayonnaise at 2:10 PM on July 17, 2015


Oh god, college football. My BIL is a diehard Clemson fan to the point where he wouldn't purchase a stroller for my then-baby niece because he swore blind it was the same red as the Gamecocks colours.
posted by Kitteh at 2:12 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also, are pecans a thing anywhere outside of Georgia? Because even though knowing how to make a pecan pie makes me not want one, if you put a slice of that in front of me, goddamn if it won't vanish.
posted by qcubed at 2:13 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Death to boiled peanuts. They combine all the taste of overripe brown things with all the texture of boogers. Guck.

On the other hand, cornbread is a thing northerners do really weirdly. Southern corn bread forever.

/she says, being a Mid-Atlantic rootless east-coaster at heart
posted by sciatrix at 2:13 PM on July 17, 2015


It's a lot harder to just reach into a tupperware container, grab a small, bite-sized piece that you can crack in one hand, and then pop the thing into your mouth.

Jesus, borrow a spork or something. Anything to avoid the salted mush of boiled peanuts. You don't love yourself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:14 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


But then I'd have to pull over to eat it.
posted by qcubed at 2:15 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


You put the Tupperware on the passenger's seat and spork it one-handed. You're overthinking this, man!
posted by kagredon at 2:18 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


On the upside, being from U Georgia gave me plenty of college football mascots at other schools to mock, even if I didn't give a shit about the actual football. (Mostly when I lived on campus I just wished that my lawn didn't immediately fill to bursting with drunken tailgaters every Saturday morning.)

I feel very strongly that Alabama's mascot should be the Fighting Dinoflagellates if they're going to insist on calling themselves the Red Tide. This whole elephant thing makes no sense at all.
posted by sciatrix at 2:18 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


Also, are pecans a thing anywhere outside of Georgia? Because even though knowing how to make a pecan pie makes me not want one, if you put a slice of that in front of me, goddamn if it won't vanish.

Yep. They're all over the South. We had huge pecan trees on our farm in Mississippi growing up. My favorite Southern confection is pecan pie. Specifically my grandmother's. (Runner up: pralines).
posted by echocollate at 2:18 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


or just cram fistfuls into your mouth with a bare hand, I think that is also a valid solution
posted by kagredon at 2:19 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: when you write these things down as a list you get a bunch of people who also didn't bother watching/reading the post
posted by 23skidoo at 2:20 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


But then I'd have to pull over to eat it.

Nah. Get you a Co-Cola, drink about half, then pour them boiled peanuts right in your cold drank.

THAT'S how real Southerners eat boiled peanuts while driving.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:20 PM on July 17, 2015 [8 favorites]


What the hell are these "boiled peanuts" you folks are talking about? Are they anything like "bolled p-nuts?"
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:21 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


Also, are pecans a thing anywhere outside of Georgia?

Even though I'm horribly allergic to the damn things, it sounds like you've never been to Texas where the pecan tree is The Official State Tree.
posted by item at 2:21 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


I'll have to confess to not being a huge fan of peaches. Probably because they pick them way too early in Georgia.

But, I mean. The bare-hands technique leads to a disgusting steering wheel, and one-handed eating seems like a bad idea for a person with an Airplane-style drinking problem.
posted by qcubed at 2:21 PM on July 17, 2015


Modern country is fine, by which I mean 90 percent is crud, which was true of classic country. But there's always a new country swing or countrypolitan or pop country for the haters to hate while behaving as though the earlier forms are a better or purer country music.
posted by maxsparber at 2:22 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


BitterOldPunk:

I'm agreeing witcha. Boiled Peanuts are a much better driving snack than cobbler--which is what I'd need to pull over for.

Peanuts are better, even, than jerky.

I need to go back to that store in Texas that does nothing but jerky.
posted by qcubed at 2:22 PM on July 17, 2015




But then I'd have to pull over to eat it.

If you haven't worked out a system with a SO or one of your several dogs to feed you while drivin', I don't know what to say to you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:24 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Nah. Get you a Co-Cola, drink about half, then pour them boiled peanuts right in your cold drank.

As a southerner I prefer to keep my drank ingredients to the bare minimum: sprite, codeine cough syrup, and a jolly rancher.
posted by item at 2:25 PM on July 17, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm a northerner transplanted to the south, so I don't have authority on this, but.

Here in the middle of North Carolina, basketball is everything. Football is almost as important as hockey. Or at least as important as hockey can be in North Carolina. Which is to say possibly slightly less important than baseball. People who talk about how football-crazy people are in the south have never been in a Big Ten college town on game day.

BBQ is the signature meat of the south. Once the folks down here agree on how BBQ can be represented on a flag, I'm sure this will be resolved neatly and quickly.

Whoever said that Taco Bell's biscuits are as good as any? I'm sorry for you, you must have a hard life.

Iced tea is sweet. If you ask for iced tea, you get sweetened iced tea. There's no such thing as tea with sugar lying undissolved in the bottom of your glass in the American South unless you're at a really shitty restaurant. You should complain about them on Yelp. If you want tea without sugar, you ask for unsweet. (or, the strongest I can palate, quarter-sweet. Which the waitstaff will smirk about).

They're much more casual about alcohol down here than up north. Every burger shop and deli has beer and sometimes wine available.

Roadside boiled peanuts is not something I see often. The local KoC sells mason jars of peanuts at the local hardware stores and those are really fine, though.
posted by ardgedee at 2:25 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


But in general, a lot of things people are insisting are the unifying characteristics of the American south... nah. Those are the unifying characteristics of a particular part of the American South. For example, shrimp is a gulf coast state product, and it's as local to Tennessee as to New York. They'd do the grits better in Tennessee, though.

As far as I can tell, biscuits are the only true universally-Southern food. Maybe dark greens.
posted by ardgedee at 2:29 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Nope. It's pretty rare you'll find dark greens - or any shade of greens that aren't fried - in Texas.
posted by item at 2:31 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


There is a lesson in Alabama barbecue, and I wish more of my fellow Alabamians would ponder it.

See, Alabama is the barbecue crossroads. Our own contribution to the art is white sauce, thanks to Big Bob Gibson, who evidently got drunk one day and diluted some mayo with vinegar and pickle juice and slapped it on a chicken. But as a barbecue-loving state, we tend to favor an ecumenical approach to art of low-and-slow: you can find everything from thin vinegar sauces to thick molasses sauces and everything in between. There are BBQ joints that do a mustard-based sauce and top their pork sandwiches with slaw, Carolina-style. There are dry rubs and wet rubs and folks who wouldn't dare season their pig with anything other than pit smoke. It's All Good, and while we'll argue personal favorites, it's widely held that there's room for every taste under the sun. This works great. You can eat at a different BBQ joint every day for a month and never repeat yourself. A multiplicity of options, a wide range of variations on a theme. More IS better, and diversity IS good.

Now if we could just get folks to think like this in other areas of their lives.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:41 PM on July 17, 2015 [15 favorites]


OK, exactly when did Ben Affleck become the poster child for rewriting history? Not that I mind him taking some blame, but it seems a little unfair to suggest he came up with the idea first.

I got married in New Orleans. Does that earn me an honourary Southerner badge?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 2:43 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


On the subject of peanuts. This takes me back to India where you can purchase fresh peanuts, still warm and hot on the side of the road out in the country along the highway. So yummy and tasty.
posted by Fizz at 2:44 PM on July 17, 2015


Being a Southerner is a state of mind. I fled northwards for a few reasons, and for all intents and purposes I might be indistinguishable from a Yankee on more than a few things.

But every time I go South, all that stuff comes back to me. Where to go for biscuits. Asking for a Coke, or sometimes more specifically a Cheerwine.

There's no accent, though. I never picked that up, since my accent was learned from PBS and Tom Brokaw.
posted by qcubed at 2:47 PM on July 17, 2015


Pecans, huh? Carya illinoinensis?
Just look at the name and then look at the map of their native range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan#/media/File:Carya_illinoinensis_range_map_1.png

(I got a clone of one of the Johnson family ranch growing in my yard. Good nut. Not really southern, except for the ridiculously affected way people pronounce it.)
posted by Seamus at 2:49 PM on July 17, 2015


I'm agnostic when it comes to bbq sauces, which is apparently weird. I mean, I love them all. Don't make me choose.
posted by echocollate at 2:51 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Reminds me of my favourite "North vs. South" joke.

My favorite, since we are talking about college football (I do have a degree from UT-Austin) is the only Aggie joke I find amusing.

It seems that there was an Aggie who was visiting friends in New England during break, and his friend took him to a college mixer where studnets from the Ivies were present.

The Aggie, being an outgoing young man, approached a group of young women.

"Hey, ladies, where you go to school at?"

Frosty sigh. *eye roll* "Yale."

They Aggie shruged. "OK. WHERE YOU GO TO SCHOOL AT?"
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:03 PM on July 17, 2015 [36 favorites]


Too many arguments about what kinds of sauce for BBQ, or football vs basketball. But the one glorious thing that "the South" gives us: drive-through liquor stores! Truly, a flag-worthy wonder.
posted by TwoStride at 3:17 PM on July 17, 2015


I'm not from the South but my mother is so here's my semi-legitimate list of sources of Southern Pride:

1) Coca-Cola
2) Lodge Cast-Iron cookware
3) Corn bread
4) Fried chicken
5) Barbeque
6) Soul Food
7) Pecan pie
8) Jazz, the blues, and rock n roll
9) country music, bluegrass
10) Bourbon
11) Johnny Cash
12) Dolly Parton ( an inspired choice, truly )
posted by wabbittwax at 3:28 PM on July 17, 2015 [8 favorites]


Oh one more for good luck:

13) Vidalia onions
posted by wabbittwax at 3:30 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


"Hey, ladies, where you go to school at?"
Frosty sigh. *eye roll* "Yale."
They Aggie shruged. "OK. WHERE YOU GO TO SCHOOL AT?"
posted by GenjiandProust


When I lived in Atlanta I worked with a guy whose last name was Yale. He kept threatening to name his firstborn child "Rebel."

I love living in the mountains of East Tennessee. This is the home of moonshine, Cormac McCarthy, Mountain Dew, Moon pies and James Agee. Both bluegrass and country music started here; the park next to my county courthouse is named for local Opry star Jack Greene. Barbecue means pig (not cow), but we agree to disagree with our friends in Texas on this subject. Jay Smooth is right - we in the South have much to be proud of, including the very richness and diversity of Southern subcultures.
posted by workerant at 3:31 PM on July 17, 2015 [5 favorites]


there is no symbol that will fit perfectly. you remember why you're talking about southern food and sports and what it Really Means to be a southerner? there is no symbol. his whole list was just... SOUTHERN THINGS YOU CAN BE PROUD OF THAT ARE OBJECTIVELY BETTER THAN RACIST FLAG. nobody is going to put a sweet tea bumper sticker on their monster truck and be like yeahhhhhhh non-racist southern pride y'all.

i can't really see this thread as anything other than an example of what he was trying to say about the flag being an excuse for white blue staters to pat themselves on the back about how not racist they are. america is racist. you, white person, are steeped in racism and you're part of the problem even when you're paying diligent attention to police brutality. you, white person, are unable to focus for 5 seconds because boo hoo it was a video instead of a transcript and you lazily looked at a list that was not the point and said OK I'M READY FOR MY AMAZING COMMENT ABOUT GRITS. I LIVED IN THE SOUTH FOR 7 YEARS I HAS OPINION.

the fucking american flag doesn't feel like my flag. every time the US competes internationally in a sporting competition i'm only like half comfortable with cheering. every time the US competes against an asian country (i'm asian american) i'm like oh great here come the racist tweets, lol dropping nukes on japan.

this will never feel like 100% my country, so even though it's the only one i've ever considered home, THERE IS. NO SYMBOL. i can't possibly know what it feels like as a black person to see the confederate flag, i don't know how other asian americans feel about patriotism, lord knows if i were white but still liberal i'd have problems with what we do to oppress other countries.

i'm queer and a woman, so i have other reasons to feel like my country fucks me over, but there's sexism and homophobia everywhere else too. but if i had to pick one symbol to show why i feel america specifically doesn't welcome me? a white face. there's your fucking symbol.

this thread is a fucking joke and i literally had to take a crawfish and beer break before i could do this comment.
posted by twist my arm at 3:33 PM on July 17, 2015 [6 favorites]


the problem with sweet tea on a flag is the cloth will get all sticky
posted by pyramid termite at 3:35 PM on July 17, 2015 [8 favorites]


What about soul music? I know that it's not a uniquely Southern genre, but there definitely is a distinctive style of soul music that is inherently Southern with its blend of country, rock n roll, and the blues. Stax Records is an obvious choice, though Muscle Shoals would also count.
posted by kendrak at 3:37 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's interesting or sad or some combination of the two, that so many of the things the South can take pride in originated in Black culture.
posted by wabbittwax at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


but if i had to pick one symbol to show why i feel america specifically doesn't welcome me? a white face. there's your fucking symbol.

this is my american flag
posted by poffin boffin at 3:54 PM on July 17, 2015 [6 favorites]


It's interesting or sad or some combination of the two, that so many of the things the South can take pride in originated in Black culture.

That definitely needs more pointing out. I'd be unsurprised if upwards of 90% of this stuff originated in black or at least non-white culture. Music, without a doubt, but cuisine and other things too.
posted by emjaybee at 4:03 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


You can get a rough transcript of subbed videos by using KeepSubs, which will spit out a text file for you. Someone could probably monkey up an auto-transcript generator from those .srt files (that someone is not me).
posted by Jon Mitchell at 4:29 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


BBQ is the signature meat of the south. Once the folks down here agree on how BBQ can be represented on a flag, I'm sure this will be resolved neatly and quickly.

This is actually the best argument FOR placing BBQ on the flag! The goal of vexillology is to create something identifiable. You'd instantly be able to differentiate what flag was from what state. Also, it would prevent the South from ever uniting again.

"Those guys have mustard on their flag? Fuck them!"

"You think that's weird? Those assholes from Texas have a cow!"
posted by absalom at 4:35 PM on July 17, 2015 [4 favorites]


Dishonor on your cow!
posted by wabbittwax at 4:45 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


Cow BBQ is the only BBQ. Everything else is just really tasty meat.
posted by item at 4:59 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Dishonor on your whole family!
posted by wabbittwax at 5:09 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


all of Texas

Texas wishes it was the South.
posted by saladin at 5:25 PM on July 17, 2015 [4 favorites]


Woman from the south: "Where y'all from....bitch?"

See, I can tell that this joke was written by a non-Southerner. "Y'all" is plural, y'all! Second-person plural! YOU ALL!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:43 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


"OK, exactly when did Ben Affleck become the poster child for rewriting history"

That's the funny part, the historian acquiesced to that whole deal.
posted by clavdivs at 5:45 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


No love for red beans and rice? Hell, rice period wouldn't exist in American food if it wasn't for the South. The African-American South.

Little Richard was awesome but, like every other artist in the history of music he was not completely original. He stole his hairstyle and quite a bit of his musical style from Billy Wright. Also, some musical influence and the flamboyant style came in part from Esquerita (Eskew Reeder).
posted by Fnarf at 5:46 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Jay Smooth is awesome, but as he himself notes, it's presumptuous for a New Yorker to be making up this list. Not a big deal, it's just very, very, very odd."
Just to be clear, I did not make up the list! It was compiled by Southerners (at my solicitation) and I merely passed it on.
posted by jsmooth995 at 5:49 PM on July 17, 2015 [46 favorites]


See, I can tell that this joke was written by a non-Southerner. "Y'all" is plural, y'all! Second-person plural! YOU ALL!

I grew up in Texas, and I've always spelled it that way, so if you want to blame anyone, blame my Texan edumacashun.
posted by Fizz at 5:53 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Gasp! MetaFilter's own!
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:18 PM on July 17, 2015 [6 favorites]


"Confederate flag is gone. Is New Orleans' iconic fleur de lis next?"

Isn't the fleur de lys a symbol of the French past of New Orleans? Fleur de lys are all over French flags and crests. I learned that it was used to brand slaves in NO which sucks, but it seems broader than that as a symbol.
posted by coust at 6:22 PM on July 17, 2015


See, I can tell that this joke was written by a non-Southerner. "Y'all" is plural, y'all! Second-person plural! YOU ALL!

Yes, but... I've heard it used singular, usually with emphasis and self-awareness, as if to create a sense of detachment. "Y'all" is pretty common in NM (though far from universal), and my step mom was from Memphis, so I heard it a lot growing up.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:47 PM on July 17, 2015


item: 8. the creators of blues music
9. the creators of jazz music


Fuck yeah.

12. Dolly Parton

FUCK YEAH!

And, I mean, Martin Luther King, Jr.! He was a product of the South as surely as Bull Connor. GOOD STUFF COMES FROM THE SOUTH TOO. You really don't have to claim only the racist bits; you can claim lots and lots of bits that rose from the ashes of slavery and segregation to be AMAZING. That is just as much a part of the South.

jsmooth995: "Just to be clear"

GASP. FAINT.

But seriously, why is Martin Luther King not a symbol of Southern pride? Why is Frederick Douglass not a symbol of Southern pride? They were Southerners! Claim it! The Civil Rights movement didn't come from the North, it came from Atlanta. That's YOU.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:03 PM on July 17, 2015 [8 favorites]


posted by jsmooth995

My last sixty seconds:

1. "Holy shit, Jay Smooth signed up, that's so awesome!"
2. *check user number*
3. "...several years ago. Well, I'm adding that dude as a contact, better late than never."
4. *go to user page*
5. 'jsmooth995 is a Contact'
6. WHAT THE SHIT, BRAIN

Anyway, super glad you're around. I'm constantly impressed by your work.
posted by cortex at 7:07 PM on July 17, 2015 [11 favorites]


(also thank you for having captions on your videos, i'm always pleasantly surprised when someone makes an effort for accessibility)
posted by poffin boffin at 7:11 PM on July 17, 2015 [8 favorites]


Little Richard was awesome but, like every other artist in the history of music he was not completely original.

I've always held that Chuck Berry is the true King of Rock n Roll, and he is from Missouri, so also southern. But he was heavily influenced by T-Bone Walker's electric blues guitar (who was from Texas). Anyway, Little Richard or Chuck Berry, ok, but Elvis shouldn't get the title.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:11 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


The most Southern thing is the friendly, vocal "Fuck you."

In the North, we whisper it to ourselves.
In the midwest, we say it to our friends.
In the West, we shout it to the sky.

Only in the South do we say it to our faces.

Bless our hearts.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:34 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


I am so Northern (never been to the south) I didn't understand the YALE joke at all.

This country is SO BIG. I need to get out more.
posted by metasav at 8:39 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


sweet tea is best prepared the day before and served in 72oz. straw logs with detachable lemon wedge rests.
posted by clavdivs at 9:37 PM on July 17, 2015


I heard Nikki Haley say that flying the confederate flag was just a southern turdition," i just busted a gut. She really pronounced it that way. Albert Camus chortled in bis grave.

The smell of a magnolia high
In a stranger's tree.
The whispering crick
Under the blackberry vines
The persimmon tree high
On the ridge above the forest
The dogwoods in bloom
The sassafrass bushes
The paper shell pecans
The hickory trees
The dead cottonmouth mocassin
Hanging on the bob wahr
The snake that bit fluffer.
The high key song shouted
Over my grandpa's banjo
Echoing out across the pasture
And now out across time
The way Momma whistled and put up
Butter with a spatula spreading into
Her mould with the rose on top.
The way they sang to the rhythm
Of their feet in the tiny church
Knowing all the verses and descants.
The spinning wheels still put away
Up in the hayloft, shucking corn
To feed the cow in the quiet barn.
The sweet mimosa,
The abandoned corn grinding stone
In the clearing down across the bridge
And the silence, the glorious, southern
Summer silence waiting for the thunder
To begin. Oh and the smell
Of the smokehouse.
That ham and the collard greens.
Tea with cream after church.
Then hiding from their hateful words
After all that sermon about the love
Of Jesus, and how he would forgive their sins
Even if they didn't learn his lessons,
They believed in him, they just
Didn't believe him.
But, they new all the verses
They just didn't love the all
Versus them.
Oh and the patience of my Grandma
Lookin' beans.
posted by Oyéah at 10:12 PM on July 17, 2015 [18 favorites]


Did you write that, Oyéah? It's wonderful.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:21 PM on July 17, 2015 [2 favorites]


Thanks for liking that, some personal history, set down by me.
posted by Oyéah at 11:26 PM on July 17, 2015 [1 favorite]


Agreed, nicely done and flagged as fantastic.

I had to Google "lookin' beans" and it's something my mom taught me (dried beans are the only beans, but spread those bastards around to find any rocks) but she's from Wis-cahn-sin.

To me, just the regional descriptor "Midwest" includes too many different states to be meaningful. I'd imagine the same would go for a lot of people in "the South." I think the Civil War specifically is a tie that binds the "traditionalists" who don't want to forget and those who disingenuously want to disentangle racism from the flag are the same that wish to do so for the "War of Northern Aggression." "Northerners were racists and even many abolitionists hated black people and simply wanted to free them out of principle / self-aggrandizement / etc." Yes yes but a shit-ton of states banded together specifically to preserve the institution of slavery and rebelled against a nascent superpower that was earnestly trying to free itself of some embarrassing and horrific contradictions, even if many of the "northerners" did scoff at blacks and cross to the other side of the street to avoid them.

We all should realize that racism is alive and well everywhere and the "unarmed black man shot by police to death" trope is just as likely to re-play in NY as in TN or MO.

I think it's fair to specifically focus on the slavery itself being the worst abhorrent application of racism, "equal or worse" than genocide.

In being prideful of the treason surrounding the preservation of that thing-epically-evil-like-genocide instead of teaching the regret of mass death and slowed progress brought on by war, each generation of confederacy-admirer essentially has to carve open wounds into their children and constantly keep them open with their "heritage" and real-world "assaults" on said heritage when The Heritage is Publically Displayed and Whitewashed ("we [white] southerners don't have a problem with it, we're cool with it so leave us to waving this traitor's flag yo")
posted by aydeejones at 11:41 PM on July 17, 2015 [3 favorites]


so many of the things the South can take pride in originated in Black culture.

That definitely needs more pointing out.


To an African/British person, it's so clear. Not just the music and the dancing, but influences in language, religion, cooking are the most obvious ones. Some of the conventions of politeness too. Also, I'd never heard 'looking beans' but it's a very familiar thing to do - you have to sort through any grain that's been traditionally harvested and threshed, including rice. I had no idea people in developed countries sometimes need to do it too!
posted by glasseyes at 4:03 AM on July 18, 2015


I love everything on that list except for sweet tea. I can't handle sugar in any kind of tea or coffee. Bleh.
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 AM on July 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


Your problem may be treating sweet tea like a drink, when it is properly a tea syrup served over ice.
posted by Panjandrum at 10:43 AM on July 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


why is Martin Luther King not a symbol of Southern pride? Why is Frederick Douglass not a symbol of Southern pride? They were Southerners! Claim it!

If you really want to fuck with people's preconceived notions, throw Nat Turner in there. If you do it correctly, the people overly concerned with the literal white-washing of southern history should have their own "wait, are we the baddies?" moment.
posted by Panjandrum at 10:49 AM on July 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


Guys, can we just make the front cover of Radio City by Big Star the official flag of the south and move on?
posted by pxe2000 at 11:12 AM on July 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's interesting or sad or some combination of the two, that so many of the things the South can take pride in originated in Black culture.

I can't think of anything white and Southern except some writers that I remotely feel proud of. Maybe the Pink Pig, I dunno.
posted by thelonius at 12:02 PM on July 18, 2015 [1 favorite]


Texas wishes it was the South.

No we do not. Since the rest of the country likes to classify Texas as southern, western, and mid-western whenever they feel, we just stick with Texan. I would say that the only things Texas has in common with the south is biscuits and BBQ (really just that BBQ is a category of food). Also the racism, definitely the racism, but thanks to the proximity of Mexico, we've got 2 groups to spread our hate around to!

Also,
1) Coca-Cola
Here in Texas we drink Dr. Pepper.

What in god's name are boiled peanuts?

The South already has a tradition that's a source of pride to both blacks and whites. It's called college football and it ranks just below Jesus and mama on the short list of things Southerners love most.
Nope. In Texas our religion is the Dallas Cowboys, except those weirdo Aggies and the unfortunate people who live in Houston.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:01 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


“A Confederate General’s Final Stand Divides Memphis,” Emily Yellin, The New York Times, 19 July 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 7:03 PM on July 20, 2015


“It’s not Dixie’s fault,” Thomas J. Sugrue, The Washington Post, 17 July 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 1:42 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


“Don’t tear down Confederate monuments – do this instead,” Jack Hitt, Reuters Great Debate Blog, 23 July 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 12:36 PM on July 23, 2015


“Don’t tear down Confederate monuments – do this instead,”

"This" is the equivalent of a TV news show trying to achieve "balance" whenever they have on an actual scientist talking about the latest findings on climate change by bringing on some right-wing think tank "expert" to bloviate about how it doesn't really exist or it's not so bad or whatthefuckever.

Lee and Jackson and Davis were traitors. Putting Robert Smalls next to one of them would be a fucking disgrace to Smalls, who took on their war machine and kicked its ass.

And eliding the actual people who betrayed their country by using John Calhoun as the exemplar -- like anyone is protesting Calhoun statues -- is spectacularly disingenuous.
posted by Etrigan at 12:56 PM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


“Busting the myth that Congress made Confederate vets into U.S. vets,” Sue Sturgis, Institute for Southern Studies, 24 July 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 5:24 PM on July 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


“Don’t tear down Confederate monuments – do this instead,”

Naw, if you're going to add a statue, add a statue of William Tecumseh Sherman twice as big as whatever the statue is. Make it out of that psychic stuff from Ghostbusters 2 so that whenever doofus anglos walk by and get all lah-dee-dah about Sherman towering over Lee or Jackson or whoever, Sherman just gets bigger and meaner.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:02 PM on July 24, 2015


“Don’t tear down Confederate monuments – do this instead,”

I'm just going to pretend this is an extension of the "add Outkast" idea
posted by kagredon at 9:47 AM on July 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


“‘A Cherished Myth’: From Dr. Tim Tyson’s Speech On Confederate Monuments,” Alamance NAACP Blog, 28 July 2015
“The unanimous Confederate White South is a cherished myth. If someone had tried to put up a Confederate monument here [on the Capitol grounds] shortly after the Civil War, there would have been another Civil War. Instead white North Carolinians erected nearly all of our Confederate monuments, around 1910, fifty years after the Civil War. After the White Supremacy campaign had seized power by force, and taken the vote away from black North Carolinians. The monument reflected that moment of white ascendency, as much as they did the Confederacy…”
q.v. “A History of Confederate Monuments in NC”—Dr. Timothy Tyson, 27 July 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 6:12 PM on July 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


“Don't Look Away From Dixieland,” Donovan X. Ramsey, GQ, 29 July 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 12:38 PM on July 30, 2015


"On April 11, 1865, two days after General Robert E. Lee’s surrender following the Battle of Appomattox Courthouse, Lincoln addressed a crowd that gathered in the evening. Speaking from the window over the main door to the White House where presidents had customarily given speeches, Lincoln again elected to deliver a thoughtful message of reunification rather than a triumphant victory speech. First, however, he told the band outside to play "Dixie," which he said, "Our adversaries over the way attempted to appropriate it, but I insisted yesterday we had fairly captured it."
posted by clavdivs at 4:09 PM on July 30, 2015


Antonio Olivo: Federal judge rules that Virginia may ban Confederate license plates
A federal judge ruled Friday that Virginia can refuse to issue specialty license plates that show the Confederate flag, following a recent Supreme Court ruling that such a ban does not violate the 1st Amendment.

U.S. District Judge Jackson Kiser said he will issue a written order to address whether the nearly 1,700 Confederate license plates that have already been issued may be recalled by the state.

At a U.S. District Court hearing in Danville, state Attorney General Mark R. Herring’s office argued that a 14-year-old injunction that keeps Virginia from prohibiting the use of the flag on license plates should be vacated because the Supreme Court found that government-issued items are not protected as free speech under the U.S. Constitution.
[...]
In 1999, the Sons of Confederate Veterans sued Virginia over the license plates after the General Assembly prohibited the group’s Confederate flag logo from appearing on them.

Two years later, Kiser — the same judge who presided over Friday’s hearing — enjoined the state from enforcing the ban, concluding that it restricted free speech. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit later upheld that decision.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:11 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Confederate flag-bearing horse taken off Saginaw zoo carousel.
posted by clavdivs at 8:41 AM on August 1, 2015






Already FPP'd, Golden Eternity.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on August 3, 2015


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