Draw up 40% cuts plans, George Osborne tells Whitehall departments
July 21, 2015 7:05 AM Subscribe
BBC: George Osborne has launched his spending review with a call for £20bn cuts to Whitehall budgets.
Each unprotected department has been asked to come up with savings plans of 25% and 40% of their budget.
The chancellor said departments had also been asked to help meet a target of 150,000 new homes on public sector land by 2020.
The NHS and per-pupil schools budgets will be protected in the review, which will be published on 25 November.
Mr Osborne, who is currently giving evidence to MPs, said that "with careful management of public money, we can get more for less".
Whenever a conservative politician talks about getting "more for less," they mean "less."
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:11 AM on July 21, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:11 AM on July 21, 2015 [24 favorites]
For more.
posted by dng at 7:11 AM on July 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by dng at 7:11 AM on July 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
Democracy doesn't work.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:22 AM on July 21, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 7:22 AM on July 21, 2015
The Boomer's parents gave the Boomers most of these public services. And in the spirit of "you can take it with you!" the Boomers are pulling that ladder up behind them as they die off. Fuck you, Millennials.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:23 AM on July 21, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 7:23 AM on July 21, 2015 [20 favorites]
I honestly can't fathom how there are people I know who voted for this.
posted by opsin at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by opsin at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Welcome to America, United Kingdom.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 AM on July 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 AM on July 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
God, I hate them. I really can't form any coherent thoughts about this right now, just...God, I hate them.
posted by skybluepink at 7:27 AM on July 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by skybluepink at 7:27 AM on July 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
I want to scream every time I hear this argument "It is immoral to burden the next generation with our debt."
It is the current, young generation that is burdened most by austerity, and the next generation will be burdened (or rather stunted) by a lack of investment.
posted by TheAlarminglySwollenFinger at 7:38 AM on July 21, 2015 [20 favorites]
It is the current, young generation that is burdened most by austerity, and the next generation will be burdened (or rather stunted) by a lack of investment.
posted by TheAlarminglySwollenFinger at 7:38 AM on July 21, 2015 [20 favorites]
Today I want you to imagine what you would cut from your lifestyle if told that your income would fall by either 25% or 40%, after adjusting for inflation, over the next four years.
It is quite a scary thought, isn't it? Presumably, if you haven't done it already, you'll think about switching the weekly shop to one of those discounters. You will heat up the water for fewer hours. And the kids' swimming lessons will have to go.
The BBC is meant to be impartial, but with such "scary thoughts" they keep the line that cutting outgoings is the only way to balance a budget. Growth is the easiest way to deal with debt, and investment is key.
Note that the Conservative Party wanted an export-led recovery, yet export growth has been flat since 2011, and the trade balance is not much better than it was in the ten years before.
posted by Thing at 7:40 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
It is quite a scary thought, isn't it? Presumably, if you haven't done it already, you'll think about switching the weekly shop to one of those discounters. You will heat up the water for fewer hours. And the kids' swimming lessons will have to go.
The BBC is meant to be impartial, but with such "scary thoughts" they keep the line that cutting outgoings is the only way to balance a budget. Growth is the easiest way to deal with debt, and investment is key.
Note that the Conservative Party wanted an export-led recovery, yet export growth has been flat since 2011, and the trade balance is not much better than it was in the ten years before.
posted by Thing at 7:40 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Today I want you to imagine what you would cut from your lifestyle if told that your income would fall by either 25% or 40%, after adjusting for inflation, over the next four years.
Fuck that, I can print money because I didn't join the Euro. I'll do that instead.
posted by alasdair at 7:42 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Fuck that, I can print money because I didn't join the Euro. I'll do that instead.
posted by alasdair at 7:42 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
The NHS and per-pupil schools budgets will be protected in the review, which will be published on 25 November.
Presumably by "protected", they mean "kept at the existing, inadequate levels".
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:42 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Presumably by "protected", they mean "kept at the existing, inadequate levels".
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:42 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, the only coherent opposition in Parliament is coming from the SNP. Labour wouldn't even vote against the Welfare Bill, which is going - on the Gov's own figures - to devastate tens or hundreds of thousands of poor families and may lead to a wholesale movement of the underpriviledged out of the South East altogether. Wonder why they'd want that?
Labour is close to falling apart, and it may be the best thing in the long run, but short-term it's devastating.
Here's more on the economics of deficit reduction. Guess what? If you ban deficit spending, you can permanently ruin the economy.
And here's Paul Mason on this and related matters of neoliberal capitalism and democracy, speaking in Greece earlier this year. I'm more and more convinced by this narrative, about neoliberal boom-bust ratcheting wealth out of the lower layers of society while preventing the sort of cyclical redistribution of power that new technology normally engenders. I am certainly interested in the non-market economy, and as soon as I see how to build the hospitals that way I suspect I shall subscribe to that magazine.
posted by Devonian at 7:42 AM on July 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
Labour is close to falling apart, and it may be the best thing in the long run, but short-term it's devastating.
Here's more on the economics of deficit reduction. Guess what? If you ban deficit spending, you can permanently ruin the economy.
And here's Paul Mason on this and related matters of neoliberal capitalism and democracy, speaking in Greece earlier this year. I'm more and more convinced by this narrative, about neoliberal boom-bust ratcheting wealth out of the lower layers of society while preventing the sort of cyclical redistribution of power that new technology normally engenders. I am certainly interested in the non-market economy, and as soon as I see how to build the hospitals that way I suspect I shall subscribe to that magazine.
posted by Devonian at 7:42 AM on July 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
I live in Canada, am from the UK, and I've long had plans go move back for an extended period. Right now it feels like the country is in the process of being slashed and burned into a shitty USA. I might as well move back there, for all that the US government terrifies me with its apparently cavalier disregard for the health and welfare of its citizens, at least they seem to be going in roughly the right direction at the moment.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:00 AM on July 21, 2015
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:00 AM on July 21, 2015
about neoliberal boom-bust ratcheting wealth out of the lower layers of society while preventing the sort of cyclical redistribution of power that new technology normally engenders.
Yes, precisely. Capitalism is not based on extracting surplus value - it's based on enclosure and frontiers, basically on stealing people's stuff. "Surplus value" is a subcategory of enclosure.
As long as you can go to a new frontier where the elites can make their money by seizing land or finding new resources, or as long as you can create a big enough "new frontier" by opening up new kinds of domestic demand (as in the post-war boom), then those are the subjects of enclosure and a little bit spills over for working people (if they're part of the empire doing the enclosing). Right now, there's fuck all left to enclose except the state itself and such resources as the poor have. What is happening to working people now is on the same line, even if it is not as fatal, as the seizure of Native land and the seizure of slaves. It's an elite seeing a resource, not giving a fuck about who needs the resource and using all their political power and any means necessary to seize it for themselves.
The state, the bodies of working people, the spare bedrooms of working people, the spare time of working people - every last little thing will be seized as capital runs out of other frontiers to exploit. It's not that this stuff is the beginning, but it's definitely the mid-point of an ongoing process.
posted by Frowner at 8:02 AM on July 21, 2015 [34 favorites]
Yes, precisely. Capitalism is not based on extracting surplus value - it's based on enclosure and frontiers, basically on stealing people's stuff. "Surplus value" is a subcategory of enclosure.
As long as you can go to a new frontier where the elites can make their money by seizing land or finding new resources, or as long as you can create a big enough "new frontier" by opening up new kinds of domestic demand (as in the post-war boom), then those are the subjects of enclosure and a little bit spills over for working people (if they're part of the empire doing the enclosing). Right now, there's fuck all left to enclose except the state itself and such resources as the poor have. What is happening to working people now is on the same line, even if it is not as fatal, as the seizure of Native land and the seizure of slaves. It's an elite seeing a resource, not giving a fuck about who needs the resource and using all their political power and any means necessary to seize it for themselves.
The state, the bodies of working people, the spare bedrooms of working people, the spare time of working people - every last little thing will be seized as capital runs out of other frontiers to exploit. It's not that this stuff is the beginning, but it's definitely the mid-point of an ongoing process.
posted by Frowner at 8:02 AM on July 21, 2015 [34 favorites]
The state, the bodies of working people, the spare bedrooms of working people, the spare time of working people - every last little thing will be seized as capital runs out of other frontiers to exploit.
Beautifully put. But you surely can't be talking about hard-working people, you must be talking about the scroungers!
Hard-working people are the people who want to know why people who choose to do nothing and be on benefits get to receive more money than they, the hard-working people, earn by working hard.
posted by bonaldi at 8:22 AM on July 21, 2015
Oi, if you're a lefty Labour type person in the UK and you want to amplify an anti-austerity voice in parliament, help us get Jeremy Corbyn the party leadership. He's just about the first political prospect that's actually lit my fire in ages, after years pulling for the (unfortunately) useless Greens and/or shudderingly voting for corporatist Blairites. And once we've got him in, don't drift away but keep your oar in to help defend against spiteful coups, and keep his feet held to the fire.
posted by Drexen at 8:24 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Drexen at 8:24 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Or you could not cut taxes for the very rich, cut inheritance taxes and cut corporation tax?
How about that?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
How about that?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Oh, on the Corbyn front, an interesting note:
The Tories and the other candidates are saying things about how the electorate have spoken, how the UK public want a reduction in social security and how Blair won elections so let's all be like Blair (which in this case they mean move the party to the right.)
The ONLY governments less representative of the people than the 2010 and 2015 tory/coalition governments were Blairs two governments.
(Some graphs here)
So when they say, the people voted for these policies, nope, not a bit of it. They didn't vote, because there was no one to vote for.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:33 AM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Tories and the other candidates are saying things about how the electorate have spoken, how the UK public want a reduction in social security and how Blair won elections so let's all be like Blair (which in this case they mean move the party to the right.)
The ONLY governments less representative of the people than the 2010 and 2015 tory/coalition governments were Blairs two governments.
(Some graphs here)
So when they say, the people voted for these policies, nope, not a bit of it. They didn't vote, because there was no one to vote for.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:33 AM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you don't know what you're doing, this sort of thing always makes things worse. And they never know what they're doing, unless of course the whole point is to make things worse.
Occupy was right: capitalism has failed the world
Occupy was right: capitalism has failed the world
But he also says that the English have too much blind faith in markets which they do not always understand. We discuss the current crisis in British universities, which having imposed fees now find that they are short of cash because the government miscalculated what students would have to pay and is now unable to ensure that the loans handed out to cover the fees will ever be repaid. In other words, the government thought it was on to a sure money-maker by introducing fees; in fact, because it could not control all the variables of the market, it was gambling with the nation's money and looks set to lose spectacularly. He chuckles: "This is a perfect example of how to inflict debt on to the public sector.posted by George_Spiggott at 8:33 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Democracy doesn't work.
It doesn't if people either don't vote or are prevented from voting.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:45 AM on July 21, 2015
It doesn't if people either don't vote or are prevented from voting.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:45 AM on July 21, 2015
The Conservative Party has just introduced thought policing to the UK
posted by bukvich at 8:45 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bukvich at 8:45 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Better Together my arse.
posted by Happy Dave at 8:48 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Happy Dave at 8:48 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
the Welfare Bill, which is going - on the Gov's own figures - to devastate tens or hundreds of thousands of poor families and may lead to a wholesale movement of the underpriviledged out of the South East altogether.
Where are all the cleaners, teachers, bus drivers, shop clerks and such going to live? Will they be housed in barracks somewhere near Edmonton, or will they be spending an additional six hours each day commuting from Wolverhampton or Loughborough or somewhere else beyond the Pale of Gentrification where all the poors have been relocated to?
posted by acb at 8:49 AM on July 21, 2015
Where are all the cleaners, teachers, bus drivers, shop clerks and such going to live? Will they be housed in barracks somewhere near Edmonton, or will they be spending an additional six hours each day commuting from Wolverhampton or Loughborough or somewhere else beyond the Pale of Gentrification where all the poors have been relocated to?
posted by acb at 8:49 AM on July 21, 2015
Oh yeah, and also re: Corbyn -- apparently he's so good, even the Torygraph wants him to win.
(Seriously, while I'd welcome the votes, what a fucking disgraceful, bad-faith, antidemocratic article to actually write! You know you're in bad company when you're trying to import shitty tactics from Rush Limbaugh.)
posted by Drexen at 8:52 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Seriously, while I'd welcome the votes, what a fucking disgraceful, bad-faith, antidemocratic article to actually write! You know you're in bad company when you're trying to import shitty tactics from Rush Limbaugh.)
posted by Drexen at 8:52 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
The logical endpoint of "doing more with less" is "doing everything with nothing".
I hope the UK people rise and draw the line somewhere soon.
posted by Rumple at 8:55 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I hope the UK people rise and draw the line somewhere soon.
posted by Rumple at 8:55 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Conservative Party has just introduced thought policing to the UK
For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone.
posted by biffa at 9:05 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone.
posted by biffa at 9:05 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is Osborne volunteering a 40% pay cut across the board, for himself and his colleagues?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:21 AM on July 21, 2015
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:21 AM on July 21, 2015
I hope the UK people rise and draw the line somewhere soon.
More people than ever are going to feel the effects of these cuts. Not least the average working couple on tax credits, which will lose £1500 very shortly, and not feel any relief until the raised minimum wage takes effect in a couple of years. Meantime parents will notice the collapse in child services, and the ever-faithful pensioners will be hit by local council cuts to their services.
That's a heady stew of disaffection Osborne is brewing up. He may be betting on economic improvements to balance it out and save him, but he is alone (well, alone with Merkel) in thinking austerity will aid growth and may not win that bet.
The question is whether Labour will have any sort of reasonable alternative ready to go by then when the country is looking for it. Is Corbyn really it?
posted by bonaldi at 9:24 AM on July 21, 2015
More people than ever are going to feel the effects of these cuts. Not least the average working couple on tax credits, which will lose £1500 very shortly, and not feel any relief until the raised minimum wage takes effect in a couple of years. Meantime parents will notice the collapse in child services, and the ever-faithful pensioners will be hit by local council cuts to their services.
That's a heady stew of disaffection Osborne is brewing up. He may be betting on economic improvements to balance it out and save him, but he is alone (well, alone with Merkel) in thinking austerity will aid growth and may not win that bet.
The question is whether Labour will have any sort of reasonable alternative ready to go by then when the country is looking for it. Is Corbyn really it?
posted by bonaldi at 9:24 AM on July 21, 2015
The game hasn't changed: it's still wreck the public sector so you can pick it up cheap. When are we going to figure out that the people running our country and the people selling it to to themselves at fire sale prices are the SAME FUCKING PEOPLE?
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:31 AM on July 21, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:31 AM on July 21, 2015 [11 favorites]
Ah well, at least now we have the answer to the question "did the Lib Dems stop the worst excesses of the Tories?"
posted by MattWPBS at 9:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by MattWPBS at 9:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is Osborne volunteering a 40% pay cut across the board, for himself and his colleagues?
Does it matter? He's independently wealthy.
posted by Nevin at 10:02 AM on July 21, 2015
Does it matter? He's independently wealthy.
posted by Nevin at 10:02 AM on July 21, 2015
Is Osborne volunteering a 40% pay cut across the board, for himself and his colleagues?
Hahahaha. No! They're getting a 10% pay rise! I know I'm repeating myself, and I expect to be repeating myself a lot over the next five years, but god, I hate them.
posted by skybluepink at 10:07 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hahahaha. No! They're getting a 10% pay rise! I know I'm repeating myself, and I expect to be repeating myself a lot over the next five years, but god, I hate them.
posted by skybluepink at 10:07 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does it matter? He's independently wealthy.
Unless he paying everyone's salaries with his independent wealth, I imagine that a pay cut of that magnitude would make some reconsider.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:16 AM on July 21, 2015
Unless he paying everyone's salaries with his independent wealth, I imagine that a pay cut of that magnitude would make some reconsider.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:16 AM on July 21, 2015
Would the rebellion against Harriet Harman have happened to a man?
posted by Rumple at 11:04 AM on July 21, 2015
posted by Rumple at 11:04 AM on July 21, 2015
>Would the rebellion against Harriet Harman have happened to a man?
I read the article. It's hard to say - she's an interim or caretake leader, and Labour is in the middle of a leadership race. It also seems odd for Labour to support slashing welfare spending.
Gordon Brown experienced attempted coups on a pretty regular basis, but unlike Harman he had built up a strong network of supporters to beat back resistance that an interim leader never has.
posted by Nevin at 12:07 PM on July 21, 2015
I read the article. It's hard to say - she's an interim or caretake leader, and Labour is in the middle of a leadership race. It also seems odd for Labour to support slashing welfare spending.
Gordon Brown experienced attempted coups on a pretty regular basis, but unlike Harman he had built up a strong network of supporters to beat back resistance that an interim leader never has.
posted by Nevin at 12:07 PM on July 21, 2015
Unless he paying everyone's salaries with his independent wealth, I imagine that a pay cut of that magnitude would make some reconsider.
For Osborne the salary and entitlements he receives are a drop in the bucket compared to his private income. The rise in the minimum wage and the welfare cuts are literally pocket change to the ruling class.
posted by Nevin at 12:09 PM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
For Osborne the salary and entitlements he receives are a drop in the bucket compared to his private income. The rise in the minimum wage and the welfare cuts are literally pocket change to the ruling class.
posted by Nevin at 12:09 PM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Would the rebellion against Harriet Harman have happened to a man?
I'd like to think that a man can sink as low as any woman in betraying their principles and the principles of their party and that their MPs might stand up to either.
Here are a list of some of the rebellions in Blair's first six years, so entirely possible, here is the official parliamentary list of rebellions from 1997-2010. There are quite a few, some bigger than this, but bear in mind Labour has less MPs to rebel these days.
posted by biffa at 1:16 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to think that a man can sink as low as any woman in betraying their principles and the principles of their party and that their MPs might stand up to either.
Here are a list of some of the rebellions in Blair's first six years, so entirely possible, here is the official parliamentary list of rebellions from 1997-2010. There are quite a few, some bigger than this, but bear in mind Labour has less MPs to rebel these days.
posted by biffa at 1:16 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I note with some satisfaction at least that all err... 8 Lib Dem MPs voted against the motion. At least they put on a united front I suppose.
posted by diziet at 3:08 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by diziet at 3:08 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Much easier for them to get together though, everyone gets a say and then they can go for elevenses.
posted by biffa at 3:18 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 3:18 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
SNP takes to opposition seats after blasting Labour for welfare bill stance
posted by Nevin at 5:09 PM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Nevin at 5:09 PM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
"I would swim through vomit to vote against this bill. And listening to some of the nauseating speeches tonight, I might have to." - Labour backbencher John McDonnell, talking about the Welfare Bill.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:55 AM on July 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:55 AM on July 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Would the rebellion against Harriet Harman have happened to a man?
A cliche of journalism is "The headline that is a bloody stupid question, the answer to which is 'no'". Unusually, this is a headline that is a bloody stupid question, the answer to which is 'yes'. Not so much progress as a curiosity.
posted by Grangousier at 2:44 AM on July 22, 2015
A cliche of journalism is "The headline that is a bloody stupid question, the answer to which is 'no'". Unusually, this is a headline that is a bloody stupid question, the answer to which is 'yes'. Not so much progress as a curiosity.
posted by Grangousier at 2:44 AM on July 22, 2015
Jon Mitchell's comment above "Right now it feels like the country is in the process of being slashed and burned into a shitty USA" nails it really.
"shitty USA" without the dynamism of the USA, but with the cruelty of the emotionally crippled upper classes of the UK. Whatever you do, don't come back. Stay in Canada.
Oh, and "Jeremy Corbyn": why not? What have we got to lose? The other candidates won't get in, they're like characters from the Walking Dead, mannequins from the centre-right shop-window.
posted by rolandroland at 2:46 AM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
"shitty USA" without the dynamism of the USA, but with the cruelty of the emotionally crippled upper classes of the UK. Whatever you do, don't come back. Stay in Canada.
Oh, and "Jeremy Corbyn": why not? What have we got to lose? The other candidates won't get in, they're like characters from the Walking Dead, mannequins from the centre-right shop-window.
posted by rolandroland at 2:46 AM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
« Older A-B-C-D, follow me! | Your Phone Knows if You're Depressed Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by dng at 7:08 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]