Not exactly Nas vs Jay-Z...
July 30, 2015 10:29 PM Subscribe
Meek Mills has finally responded to Drake in their week long feud. Reaction has not generally been kind. Drake's Instagram speaks for itself. Chuck D was not impressed. Toronto Councilor Norm Kelly poured more salt in the wound (after fanning the flames last week). And of course brands are getting in on the action. Other Twitter highlights: 1 2 3 4 5 6
My wife asked me what the hell this was about and I proceeded to give the most old person explanation ever.
"Well, apparently he's a rapper most people don't really care about and he's Nikki Minaj's boyfriend and he said he wrote lyrics for Drake and then Drake released a really brutal song and then Mills released a bad song in response and then a Canadian politician got involved and that's all I know. "
posted by lattiboy at 10:43 PM on July 30, 2015 [16 favorites]
"Well, apparently he's a rapper most people don't really care about and he's Nikki Minaj's boyfriend and he said he wrote lyrics for Drake and then Drake released a really brutal song and then Mills released a bad song in response and then a Canadian politician got involved and that's all I know. "
posted by lattiboy at 10:43 PM on July 30, 2015 [16 favorites]
Apparently it's fuck with Drake day, and everybody's celebrating.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:53 PM on July 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:53 PM on July 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
why is Norm Kelly involved? why?
Because Toronto's got love for Drake.
I love social media.
posted by discopolo at 11:01 PM on July 30, 2015
Because Toronto's got love for Drake.
I love social media.
posted by discopolo at 11:01 PM on July 30, 2015
This is one of those cases where 'social media' becomes an oxymoron.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:07 PM on July 30, 2015
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:07 PM on July 30, 2015
what a time to be alive
posted by poffin boffin at 11:16 PM on July 30, 2015 [25 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 11:16 PM on July 30, 2015 [25 favorites]
what a time to be alive
Is the discrimination against zombies really needed here?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:21 PM on July 30, 2015 [15 favorites]
Is the discrimination against zombies really needed here?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:21 PM on July 30, 2015 [15 favorites]
*cough* Meek Mill, not Meek Mills
Carry on
posted by nicodine at 11:53 PM on July 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Carry on
posted by nicodine at 11:53 PM on July 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
My favorite Twitter highlight is this Pokemon style reenactment video .
posted by RichAndCreamy at 12:02 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by RichAndCreamy at 12:02 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, people love Meek Mill. His album got to #1 on the charts and he's a well known rapper that came up from the streets and made it big. The first song on his album is one of the most epic rap songs of the year. It's a testament to a guy who's been rapping since 03 (or even earlier), actually lived on the streets and did crazy shit, etc. That beat is incredible, too, and Meek's flow over it is imperative and in your face.
Meek has a song with Drake on that same album called R.I.C.O. that Meek claims Drake used a ghostwriter for, who has since been named as Quentin Miller. Afterward, Funkmaster Flex dropped reference tracks of Quentin giving Drake lines while he recorded songs for some of his most recent hits.
So once again this is an argument that comes down to ghostwriting in hip-hop. It's been a huge issue forever, with the lines blurred between producing credits and cowriting credits. A lot of artists have cowriters, Meek even has people credited as such on his album. I think the main issue here is the definition of "ghostwriter", because the initial accusation was "He don't write his own raps! That's why he ain't tweet my album because we found out". What it comes down to is: does Drake have someone writing his songs? The entire songs, not just a few lines or recommendations. Because there are 4 hits out there with Quentin's reference tracks in them for Drake to record.
posted by gucci mane at 12:03 AM on July 31, 2015 [12 favorites]
Meek has a song with Drake on that same album called R.I.C.O. that Meek claims Drake used a ghostwriter for, who has since been named as Quentin Miller. Afterward, Funkmaster Flex dropped reference tracks of Quentin giving Drake lines while he recorded songs for some of his most recent hits.
So once again this is an argument that comes down to ghostwriting in hip-hop. It's been a huge issue forever, with the lines blurred between producing credits and cowriting credits. A lot of artists have cowriters, Meek even has people credited as such on his album. I think the main issue here is the definition of "ghostwriter", because the initial accusation was "He don't write his own raps! That's why he ain't tweet my album because we found out". What it comes down to is: does Drake have someone writing his songs? The entire songs, not just a few lines or recommendations. Because there are 4 hits out there with Quentin's reference tracks in them for Drake to record.
posted by gucci mane at 12:03 AM on July 31, 2015 [12 favorites]
What's all this about the bass player from REM dating Nicki Minaj and having a feud with that young fellow who started from the bottom now he's here, then?
posted by koeselitz at 12:04 AM on July 31, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 12:04 AM on July 31, 2015 [12 favorites]
So once again this is an argument that comes down to ghostwriting in hip-hop. It's been a huge issue forever, with the lines blurred between producing credits and cowriting credits. A lot of artists have cowriters, Meek even has people credited as such on his album. I think the main issue here is the definition of "ghostwriter", because the initial accusation was "He don't write his own raps! That's why he ain't tweet my album because we found out". What it comes down to is: does Drake have someone writing his songs? The entire songs, not just a few lines or recommendations. Because there are 4 hits out there with Quentin's reference tracks in them for Drake to record.
Quentin Miller is credited on Drake's tracks, though, no? I haven't listened to the reference tracks so I don't have a sense of how much he wrote.
posted by atoxyl at 12:32 AM on July 31, 2015
Quentin Miller is credited on Drake's tracks, though, no? I haven't listened to the reference tracks so I don't have a sense of how much he wrote.
posted by atoxyl at 12:32 AM on July 31, 2015
I did like the twist on "Know Yourself" - "pray the real live forever man/pray the fakes get exposed." For those not paying attention that's a quote from one of the most popular recent Drake songs, a bunch of which was apparently written by Miller. But even if you like Meek Mill this doesn't stack up to "Back to Back."
posted by atoxyl at 12:39 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 12:39 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
atoxyl, he's credited as cowriter, but I think Meek is insinuating that he wrote the whole thing, for multiple songs. Quentin and Drake's producer, Noah "40" Shebib, have come out saying this isn't true, but Meek is under the impression it is based off somehow finding out, and then claiming, that Drake didn't write any of the lyrics on the song R.I.C.O. that's on Meek's album.
The whole thing is convoluted. There's always been a thing about ghostwriters in hip hop. Maybe Meek is coming at it from a street point of view, like the idea of legitimacy, whereas Drake doesn't care (although he has people denying it). I think there are two worlds coming together here: the world of hardcore, street, life experience oriented rapping, and someone who wants to be played at parties and festivals. That's sort of the weird state of rap right now. For all the Vince Staples and Kendricks and Meek Mills and Rockys out there rapping about their lives we also have the sort of hip hop/R&B side of the scene too. It's a clash that'll hopefully just result in more music.
posted by gucci mane at 3:00 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
The whole thing is convoluted. There's always been a thing about ghostwriters in hip hop. Maybe Meek is coming at it from a street point of view, like the idea of legitimacy, whereas Drake doesn't care (although he has people denying it). I think there are two worlds coming together here: the world of hardcore, street, life experience oriented rapping, and someone who wants to be played at parties and festivals. That's sort of the weird state of rap right now. For all the Vince Staples and Kendricks and Meek Mills and Rockys out there rapping about their lives we also have the sort of hip hop/R&B side of the scene too. It's a clash that'll hopefully just result in more music.
posted by gucci mane at 3:00 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean really if you think about it this is probably the most bizarre era of rap so far in history. You have people like Young Thug and Fetty Wap, you have the reemergence of really great story telling street rap blended with some of the best beat makers and jazz artists currently out, a hip hop dynasty being torn apart with people being shot at in the midst of it, you have people like Drake, The Weeknd, Frank Ocean, you have rap crews, you have super low-key weird as fuck internet rappers like Black Kray and Xavier Wulf, and you have mainstream artsy stuff like Kanye. It's all so bizarre.
posted by gucci mane at 3:06 AM on July 31, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 3:06 AM on July 31, 2015 [20 favorites]
Metafilter: and then a Canadian politician got involved and that's all I know.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:19 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:19 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Speaking of which, I know almost nothing about today's hip-hop scene, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that if Hamburger Helper and Norm Kelly are scoring points at your expense, you are on the losing side of your beef.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:29 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:29 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
as beefs go, this is pretty milquetoast, yeah? Which given drizzy's roots i guess kinda makes sense...
posted by modernnomad at 4:10 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by modernnomad at 4:10 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't understand the "Stay Fed Philly" tweet at all, leading to the horrible conclusion that I'm less cool and with it than Hamburger Helper.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 4:28 AM on July 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 4:28 AM on July 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
I just got back from visiting my elderly parents in Toronto and they just kept complaining about the cost of beefs. ARE MY PARENTS SECRET HIP HOP FANS?
posted by srboisvert at 4:33 AM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 4:33 AM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
Meek may have a point but Drake really did kill him in that 2nd track. Especially "You getting bodied by a singing nigga". It's really expert use of his own image as soft--"Yeah I'm soft, and I'm murkin you right now, what does that say about you?"
Does anybody care if Drake doesn't really write too? He's not known as a lyricist. Why do rappers have to write every line they say when Madonna and Michael Jackson write 0 of them we still call it their song because they said it.
Anyway, once Chance's releases an actual 2nd album this shit will seem petty like a Warrant/Bullet Boys squabble.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:07 AM on July 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Does anybody care if Drake doesn't really write too? He's not known as a lyricist. Why do rappers have to write every line they say when Madonna and Michael Jackson write 0 of them we still call it their song because they said it.
Anyway, once Chance's releases an actual 2nd album this shit will seem petty like a Warrant/Bullet Boys squabble.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:07 AM on July 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Is that really Norm Kelly or is that a spoof account? How on earth was a Toronto Councilor hip enough to get a 4-character Twitter handle?!
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 5:27 AM on July 31, 2015
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 5:27 AM on July 31, 2015
i have to say i'm on kind of Meek's side about the ghostwriting thing.
posted by angrycat at 5:37 AM on July 31, 2015
posted by angrycat at 5:37 AM on July 31, 2015
Also, this gif
It's annoying, but sadly inevitable, that Nicki Minaj is being dragged into this in a "your woman is more famous than you, call yourself a real man?" way.
posted by billiebee at 6:02 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's annoying, but sadly inevitable, that Nicki Minaj is being dragged into this in a "your woman is more famous than you, call yourself a real man?" way.
posted by billiebee at 6:02 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I wish Drake and Meek Mill would just fuck and get it over with.
posted by I_Zimbra at 6:20 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by I_Zimbra at 6:20 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
as beefs go, this is pretty milquetoast, yeah? Which given drizzy's roots i guess kinda makes sense...
Yeah, I'm all about Drake, but 'milquetoast' is pretty much his whole thing.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:29 AM on July 31, 2015
Yeah, I'm all about Drake, but 'milquetoast' is pretty much his whole thing.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:29 AM on July 31, 2015
Nicki, you can do better than a dude who tries to fuck with your business relationships and can't even do it right!
posted by sallybrown at 6:45 AM on July 31, 2015
posted by sallybrown at 6:45 AM on July 31, 2015
I find it hard to believe people think this is a spat, and not the product of marketing.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:56 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by five fresh fish at 6:56 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's annoying, but sadly inevitable, that Nicki Minaj is being dragged into this in a "your woman is more famous than you, call yourself a real man?" way.
Yeah, especially because if I'm honest I think of Drake as "you know, that guy at the end of the Anaconda video".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:04 AM on July 31, 2015
Yeah, especially because if I'm honest I think of Drake as "you know, that guy at the end of the Anaconda video".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:04 AM on July 31, 2015
Charged Up was fun to listen to. I had that on repeat for a while the day it came out. I'm not a Drake fan at all but he has his moments. Meek Mill's response was terrible. But then I've always thought he was a terrible rapper.
There is so much good rap out there that this is more like a reality tv feud than it is a real rap beef.
I can't necessarily say this is a weirder time in rap than any other time, because there were always popular groups, weird rappers, fringe rappers, lyricists, outside crews, street crews, and so on. Perhaps there's just more of them now, I don't know. It'll maybe get weird to me when entire movements of good rap music grab a foothold and coexist. But half of this popular shit is garbage.
posted by cashman at 7:18 AM on July 31, 2015
There is so much good rap out there that this is more like a reality tv feud than it is a real rap beef.
I can't necessarily say this is a weirder time in rap than any other time, because there were always popular groups, weird rappers, fringe rappers, lyricists, outside crews, street crews, and so on. Perhaps there's just more of them now, I don't know. It'll maybe get weird to me when entire movements of good rap music grab a foothold and coexist. But half of this popular shit is garbage.
posted by cashman at 7:18 AM on July 31, 2015
I find it hard to believe people think this is a spat, and not the product of marketing.
Uh, not marketing for Meek. This is the type of shit that can put a hefty dent in someone's career if they don't manage the damage control correctly.
posted by windbox at 8:24 AM on July 31, 2015
Uh, not marketing for Meek. This is the type of shit that can put a hefty dent in someone's career if they don't manage the damage control correctly.
posted by windbox at 8:24 AM on July 31, 2015
five fresh fish: "I find it hard to believe people think this is a spat, and not the product of marketing."
Never ascribe to a complicated secret marketing conspiracy what can be explained pretty easily as 'people who run their mouths off professionally running their mouths off a bit on the side, too.'
posted by koeselitz at 9:03 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Never ascribe to a complicated secret marketing conspiracy what can be explained pretty easily as 'people who run their mouths off professionally running their mouths off a bit on the side, too.'
posted by koeselitz at 9:03 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Hey, here's a video of DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist's 'Renegades of Rhythm' show, where they do a mix of Afrika Bambaataa's records, from Oakland.)
posted by box at 9:34 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 9:34 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
windbox: "This is the type of shit that can put a hefty dent in someone's career if they don't manage the damage control correctly."
Indeed. Some people do recover but others do not.
posted by mhum at 10:12 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Indeed. Some people do recover but others do not.
posted by mhum at 10:12 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
gucci mane: "The whole thing is convoluted."
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is why did Meek call out Drake in the first place? Well, it seems the whole reason Meek started this is that he was upset that Drake didn't sufficiently promote his new album. Specificallly, I think this was the tweet that set this whole thing off:
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is why did Meek call out Drake in the first place? Well, it seems the whole reason Meek started this is that he was upset that Drake didn't sufficiently promote his new album. Specificallly, I think this was the tweet that set this whole thing off:
Stop comparing drake to me too... He don't write his own raps! That's why he ain't tweet my album because we found out!posted by mhum at 10:32 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's probably not prearranged marketing but self-promotion is a big reason rappers start shit like this.
Does anybody care if Drake doesn't really write too? He's not known as a lyricist.
I mean, he's got some good (punch) lines. Lots of people were getting (arguably overly) worked up about the best boasts on that last mixtape. It seems like he'll intermittently release something that's supposed to remind you he can hang as a rapper and be an RnB star at the same time. But his success has always been powered by a well-oiled, fairly dedicated music machine.
posted by atoxyl at 11:19 AM on July 31, 2015
Does anybody care if Drake doesn't really write too? He's not known as a lyricist.
I mean, he's got some good (punch) lines. Lots of people were getting (arguably overly) worked up about the best boasts on that last mixtape. It seems like he'll intermittently release something that's supposed to remind you he can hang as a rapper and be an RnB star at the same time. But his success has always been powered by a well-oiled, fairly dedicated music machine.
posted by atoxyl at 11:19 AM on July 31, 2015
five fresh fish: I find it hard to believe people think this is a spat, and not the product of marketing.
koeselitz: Never ascribe to a complicated secret marketing conspiracy what can be explained pretty easily as 'people who run their mouths off professionally running their mouths off a bit on the side, too.'
The thing is, beefs are about marketing. Not directly to sell more albums or singles, but to raise your status and put down someone else, which would indirectly result in more sales for you and less for the other guy. And of course, once it's big enough, actual companies jump on the bandwagon for a bit more free publicity of their own. The internet is weird like that now.
gucci mane: I mean really if you think about it this is probably the most bizarre era of rap so far in history.
It's an internet thing. The world is really small, with styles and sounds blending, when someone (Drake) can be called "post-genre" and it makes sense, and he still sells a ton of albums without catering to one genre or fanbase. Underground sounds only stay underground if they're too weird or unappealing to gain a wider fanbase. You don't need major label support to make it big, you just need an internet following, which will then result in mainstream coverage as you get more social media followers and people everywhere are talking about you.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:37 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
koeselitz: Never ascribe to a complicated secret marketing conspiracy what can be explained pretty easily as 'people who run their mouths off professionally running their mouths off a bit on the side, too.'
The thing is, beefs are about marketing. Not directly to sell more albums or singles, but to raise your status and put down someone else, which would indirectly result in more sales for you and less for the other guy. And of course, once it's big enough, actual companies jump on the bandwagon for a bit more free publicity of their own. The internet is weird like that now.
gucci mane: I mean really if you think about it this is probably the most bizarre era of rap so far in history.
It's an internet thing. The world is really small, with styles and sounds blending, when someone (Drake) can be called "post-genre" and it makes sense, and he still sells a ton of albums without catering to one genre or fanbase. Underground sounds only stay underground if they're too weird or unappealing to gain a wider fanbase. You don't need major label support to make it big, you just need an internet following, which will then result in mainstream coverage as you get more social media followers and people everywhere are talking about you.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:37 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just saw someone refer to this whole thing as the "small claims court of rap beefs", which is pretty much spot on.
posted by Itaxpica at 12:20 PM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 12:20 PM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
"I mean really if you think about it this is probably the most bizarre era of rap so far in history. You have people like Young Thug and Fetty Wap, you have the reemergence of really great story telling street rap blended with some of the best beat makers and jazz artists currently out, a hip hop dynasty being torn apart with people being shot at in the midst of it, you have people like Drake, The Weeknd, Frank Ocean, you have rap crews, you have super low-key weird as fuck internet rappers like Black Kray and Xavier Wulf, and you have mainstream artsy stuff like Kanye. It's all so bizarre."
It's like the '70s in rock but maybe even better. George Clinton, Roxy Music, Suicide, Pere Ubu, etc. etc. But because distro is better now, we can hear it all as it happens. That plus the literal sample/remix/magpie ethos — second golden age.
posted by klangklangston at 12:57 PM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's like the '70s in rock but maybe even better. George Clinton, Roxy Music, Suicide, Pere Ubu, etc. etc. But because distro is better now, we can hear it all as it happens. That plus the literal sample/remix/magpie ethos — second golden age.
posted by klangklangston at 12:57 PM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Drake is smart enough to act like he knows this is small claims court when he chides himself for paying attention to something he knows he should just ignore in "Back to Back," so that protects him from coming off as though he thinks he's hard and this is some real beef. His disses are funny but he's also laughing at himself. He references Degrassi before Meek can. I think Drake is a shit rapper but he's handling this skillfully by acting like, "Aw, I know better than to get into this silly thing, but I guess I'll toss off some lines, whatever."
Meek is taking this really seriously and used his track to diss several other people while coming off as a whiner and tattletale who doesn't get why other kids get away with things and has to bring it to the adults' attention like, "Teacher, I wanna know why Billy broke a crayon but he isn't in a time out, and I wanna know why Michael called Lisa a fart during recess but everyone still acts like he's so cool all the time but he really should've got in trouble. Why don't they act like I'm cool?" He doesn't get this is small claims or that this battle is plain funny, which is why the Internet already wrote his eulogy.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Meek is taking this really seriously and used his track to diss several other people while coming off as a whiner and tattletale who doesn't get why other kids get away with things and has to bring it to the adults' attention like, "Teacher, I wanna know why Billy broke a crayon but he isn't in a time out, and I wanna know why Michael called Lisa a fart during recess but everyone still acts like he's so cool all the time but he really should've got in trouble. Why don't they act like I'm cool?" He doesn't get this is small claims or that this battle is plain funny, which is why the Internet already wrote his eulogy.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Itaxpica: I just saw someone refer to this whole thing as the "small claims court of rap beefs", which is pretty much spot on.
"Next time on Ice Cube's All-Beef Court, Meek Mill v. Drake"
I would pay to see this show, Judge Judy for hip-hop feuds.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:44 PM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
"Next time on Ice Cube's All-Beef Court, Meek Mill v. Drake"
I would pay to see this show, Judge Judy for hip-hop feuds.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:44 PM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Personally I'm not on anyone's side, because I think there's a marketing angle and I'm not sure why people think Drake is "winning". Meek's on a gigantic tour, and Drake had one good line that was about Nicki Minaj more than anything ("is this a world tour or your girl's tour?"), and it's a stupid one. Of course Meek isn't going to have immediate access to a recording studio, not everyone is like Weezy and carries one around with them (see: Tha Carter documentary). I feel like Meek's response diss was brilliant. He put the reference track on blast for everyone to hear, AND had it say "ft. Quentin Miller".
Meek is from the streets, this gives him a broader sense of legitimacy which is a big deal in hip hop. If you listen to his diss track "Wanna Know" one of the first few lines is about Drake's beef with Chris Brown and how Drake reportedly had to write a check to him (someone threw a bottle at Chris Brown I guess, idk) instead of settling it musically. This describes where Meek's coming from. He's old school. I think Meek knows ghost writing happens with certain people but I think he's more shocked and surprised that Drake is heralded as this genius (although like people have said, not held up as the most lyrically talented, but he (or someone) does create amazing hooks) when someone else is writing the songs. People also forget that Meek and Drake USE to really like each other, and praised each other on Twitter. This could be a big "wow I'm shocked this guy I really liked is a major phony" experience for him. And sure, maybe there is a feeling of Meek being upset that Drake didn't advertise his album (another line in his diss is about Drake wearing one of Meek's chains at a basketball game).
"You fucking dork you changed the style because you studied us
Coming with the same flow
Switching up your lingo
We just want a refund, this ain’t what we paid for
Every time that we come, we get what we came for
Spitting another n****s shit, but you claim you king though?"
Meek's mad because not only does Drake get props for his awesome hooks that someone else writes, but he surmises that Drake studied how people rap. He's not legitimate, he's a product of marketers to create something consumable. Drake will never be able to write street rap music like Meek, he doesn't have the experience. Started From The Bottom is an awesome song, and I like Drake a lot, but from my POV Meek is really upset at what he sees as "fake" rap from someone he considered a friend, and now he sees that person as fake too. Judging from his latest Instagram post it seems like Meek is legitimately confused by this whole thing.
So this is rap now! You can have a n#%ga write ya raps and that's acceptable.. just like in the streets you can tell on people and still b the man and get the same respect as the next man! It's almost over for the the game lol I'm confused outchea...... I'm making all trap music after I do my thang with them! We still loaded! #quentinmiller changed the game #youtherealmvp
posted by gucci mane at 4:33 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Meek is from the streets, this gives him a broader sense of legitimacy which is a big deal in hip hop. If you listen to his diss track "Wanna Know" one of the first few lines is about Drake's beef with Chris Brown and how Drake reportedly had to write a check to him (someone threw a bottle at Chris Brown I guess, idk) instead of settling it musically. This describes where Meek's coming from. He's old school. I think Meek knows ghost writing happens with certain people but I think he's more shocked and surprised that Drake is heralded as this genius (although like people have said, not held up as the most lyrically talented, but he (or someone) does create amazing hooks) when someone else is writing the songs. People also forget that Meek and Drake USE to really like each other, and praised each other on Twitter. This could be a big "wow I'm shocked this guy I really liked is a major phony" experience for him. And sure, maybe there is a feeling of Meek being upset that Drake didn't advertise his album (another line in his diss is about Drake wearing one of Meek's chains at a basketball game).
"You fucking dork you changed the style because you studied us
Coming with the same flow
Switching up your lingo
We just want a refund, this ain’t what we paid for
Every time that we come, we get what we came for
Spitting another n****s shit, but you claim you king though?"
Meek's mad because not only does Drake get props for his awesome hooks that someone else writes, but he surmises that Drake studied how people rap. He's not legitimate, he's a product of marketers to create something consumable. Drake will never be able to write street rap music like Meek, he doesn't have the experience. Started From The Bottom is an awesome song, and I like Drake a lot, but from my POV Meek is really upset at what he sees as "fake" rap from someone he considered a friend, and now he sees that person as fake too. Judging from his latest Instagram post it seems like Meek is legitimately confused by this whole thing.
So this is rap now! You can have a n#%ga write ya raps and that's acceptable.. just like in the streets you can tell on people and still b the man and get the same respect as the next man! It's almost over for the the game lol I'm confused outchea...... I'm making all trap music after I do my thang with them! We still loaded! #quentinmiller changed the game #youtherealmvp
posted by gucci mane at 4:33 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
When I mean I'm not on anyone's side I mean I don't really care what the outcome is because it really won't matter. I know everyone likes to look at beefs and they go down in history if they're intense, but everyone seems to end up buddies again in the long run. I personally like Meek's album more and I think he has more staying power. I can listen to it anytime I got the aux cord. Drake is awesome, I love his latest mixtape and his albums have always been fire and had top of the line production, but it's what I put on when I'm dancing with girls at a party with my friends.
posted by gucci mane at 4:35 PM on July 31, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 4:35 PM on July 31, 2015
I give Drake props for expanding the emotional range of mainstream hip-hop (like 'Ye), but, let's be real, you can't do that at the same time you're the king of the streets. If Pac couldn't do it (he did the one, then he got out of jail and tried to do the other), Aubrey sure can't do it. The beef this is most reminiscent of, for me, is Cube and Common. It's about authenticity, and whether that still matters. As others have said, this is an interesting time for rap music.
posted by box at 5:29 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:29 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure why people think Drake is "winning".
c.f. Yoko Ono's Advice Column and also:
1. Meek's delivery on this track ain't great
2. Calling out ghostwriting is one thing because Drake does want to be taken seriously as a skilled rapper, but otherwise attacking him for lacking "street" authenticity is incredibly boring at this point.
3. Whatever you think the realistic timeframe for Meek to come up with his track was, in the Internet era it just looks like he got blindsided 'cause Drake already got in two. Drake's camp is killing it as far as media tactics go and nobody really cares whose idea it was for the "cover" image for "Back to Back" and so on because it's funny.
Also if Drake were paying me to write his songs I'd ask why someone who cares so much about authenticity is signed with Rick fucking Ross.
A couple of tabloids are suggesting that Meek and Nicki are breaking up. I dunno if I believe that though.
posted by atoxyl at 6:32 PM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
c.f. Yoko Ono's Advice Column and also:
1. Meek's delivery on this track ain't great
2. Calling out ghostwriting is one thing because Drake does want to be taken seriously as a skilled rapper, but otherwise attacking him for lacking "street" authenticity is incredibly boring at this point.
3. Whatever you think the realistic timeframe for Meek to come up with his track was, in the Internet era it just looks like he got blindsided 'cause Drake already got in two. Drake's camp is killing it as far as media tactics go and nobody really cares whose idea it was for the "cover" image for "Back to Back" and so on because it's funny.
Also if Drake were paying me to write his songs I'd ask why someone who cares so much about authenticity is signed with Rick fucking Ross.
A couple of tabloids are suggesting that Meek and Nicki are breaking up. I dunno if I believe that though.
posted by atoxyl at 6:32 PM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Personally I'm not on anyone's side, because I think there's a marketing angle and I'm not sure why people think Drake is "winning". "
The flow's catchier than Meek's. I'd call Takeover but ain't even Makeover — Fakeover?
The best bars on Drake are Fake Killah, nahmean — Meek's not ghost writin'.
posted by klangklangston at 12:00 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
The flow's catchier than Meek's. I'd call Takeover but ain't even Makeover — Fakeover?
The best bars on Drake are Fake Killah, nahmean — Meek's not ghost writin'.
posted by klangklangston at 12:00 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the idea that there are "legitimate" Canadian rap artists is hilarious. With the exception of northern native reservations, there is nothing in Canada comparable to the failed inner cities in America that have produced authentic rap artists who speak from lived experience. If a non-native Canadian can be a rap artist, then so could the Queen Mum.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:09 AM on August 1, 2015
posted by five fresh fish at 12:09 AM on August 1, 2015
I don't think it matters who you're signed to when your album is #1 for two weeks+ and you're on a world tour with one of the best, most underrated rappers, along with two of the best up-and-coming young artists in the country. Sure, Rick Ross isn't that great, but Maybach Music Group has had 6 #1 albums, so that's nothing to laugh at. Meek's debut album was #2 on Billboard 200 and reached #1 on two of the others (hip hop/R&B, and rap). Whatever he is doing, he's doing a great job. Drake has star power, but everyone seems to forget that Meek isn't just some no-name, new to this underdog. The guy's a boss, he's been around longer than Drake. I remember my friend from London coming over and showing me Meek Mill mix tapes off datpiff in like 2010. He's no fool, that's why I think this whole thing is so bizarre and I guess maybe Meek hasn't seen this side of rap, as surprising as that is.
posted by gucci mane at 2:09 AM on August 1, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 2:09 AM on August 1, 2015
I'm genuinely curious now. What are your favorite Meek lines? And can you link the songs they come from. Link his 8 or 9 songs you feel are his best.
posted by cashman at 5:31 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 5:31 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the idea that there are "legitimate" Canadian rap artists is hilarious. With the exception of northern native reservations, there is nothing in Canada comparable to the failed inner cities in America that have produced authentic rap artists who speak from lived experience. If a non-native Canadian can be a rap artist, then so could the Queen Mum.
I don't know rap... but I do know Canadian poverty, and you are talking out of your ass.
With the exception of a few neighbourhoods (Vancouver's East Hastings & Main, Toronto's Moss Park, etc), deep poverty in Canadian cities is not an inner city phenomenon, but an "inner suburb" one. Not the nice suburbs of single family homes and trees, but tracks of high rise buildings and warren-like row house areas; they look just like Paris's banlieu. The racial makeup is different than in the US: Thornecliffe Park, for example, is majority Muslim and South Asian. But the neighbourhoods I know best are majority black - along Jane, in Rexdale. These areas can be 80-90% black, in a city where only 10-15% of the population is black.
However, the poverty is the same: many single-parent households, lots of un- and under-employment, people living in terrible conditions (cockroaches, bedbugs, holes in apartment walls, all the bricks falling off the side of one public housing high rise). Instead of an empty city core, they live next to rusted out industrial areas, main streets designed like highways (in areas where most of the locals don't drive), and streetscapes that are either frozen wastelands or burning deserts, at least in Toronto (because that's what you get when everything is ashfault and concrete). And the same bad relationship with the police: systematic harassment of young black men, called "carding", and sometimes fatal shootings (though our police are less militarised - but they are increasingly being trained by US unions into being more aggressive and dangerous).
I know this area, because I grew up there. In the building where I grew up, the most lucrative profession was being a drug dealer; we also had prostitution, and gang killings. Just a few months ago, two men were shot in the hallways where I used to play. A few months before, a teen was killed in a shootout in the park behind my old building. It was in this environment that I used to hear boys in my hallway doing improv rap in the 80s and 90s - before it was mainstream.
That said: also talking out of your ass to think that Native poverty in Canada is only rural and northern. In Winnipeg, there are vast areas of the city which are majority (almost exclusively?) Native, and desperately poor. I don't know Winnipeg, so I'll leave it for someone else.
But as for Toronto neighbourhoods: Drake is from Forest Hill, which is almost the other end of Toronto (economically) from Dixon, Rexdale, Jane & Finch, Malvern. I was pissed off when I heard he has a song about coming "from the bottom"; I gather he wasn't rich (lived in rental, and there are poor people in Forest Hill), but, neighbourhood-wise, Forest Hill is 2/3 of the way to the top.
posted by jb at 7:05 AM on August 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
I don't know rap... but I do know Canadian poverty, and you are talking out of your ass.
With the exception of a few neighbourhoods (Vancouver's East Hastings & Main, Toronto's Moss Park, etc), deep poverty in Canadian cities is not an inner city phenomenon, but an "inner suburb" one. Not the nice suburbs of single family homes and trees, but tracks of high rise buildings and warren-like row house areas; they look just like Paris's banlieu. The racial makeup is different than in the US: Thornecliffe Park, for example, is majority Muslim and South Asian. But the neighbourhoods I know best are majority black - along Jane, in Rexdale. These areas can be 80-90% black, in a city where only 10-15% of the population is black.
However, the poverty is the same: many single-parent households, lots of un- and under-employment, people living in terrible conditions (cockroaches, bedbugs, holes in apartment walls, all the bricks falling off the side of one public housing high rise). Instead of an empty city core, they live next to rusted out industrial areas, main streets designed like highways (in areas where most of the locals don't drive), and streetscapes that are either frozen wastelands or burning deserts, at least in Toronto (because that's what you get when everything is ashfault and concrete). And the same bad relationship with the police: systematic harassment of young black men, called "carding", and sometimes fatal shootings (though our police are less militarised - but they are increasingly being trained by US unions into being more aggressive and dangerous).
I know this area, because I grew up there. In the building where I grew up, the most lucrative profession was being a drug dealer; we also had prostitution, and gang killings. Just a few months ago, two men were shot in the hallways where I used to play. A few months before, a teen was killed in a shootout in the park behind my old building. It was in this environment that I used to hear boys in my hallway doing improv rap in the 80s and 90s - before it was mainstream.
That said: also talking out of your ass to think that Native poverty in Canada is only rural and northern. In Winnipeg, there are vast areas of the city which are majority (almost exclusively?) Native, and desperately poor. I don't know Winnipeg, so I'll leave it for someone else.
But as for Toronto neighbourhoods: Drake is from Forest Hill, which is almost the other end of Toronto (economically) from Dixon, Rexdale, Jane & Finch, Malvern. I was pissed off when I heard he has a song about coming "from the bottom"; I gather he wasn't rich (lived in rental, and there are poor people in Forest Hill), but, neighbourhood-wise, Forest Hill is 2/3 of the way to the top.
posted by jb at 7:05 AM on August 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
Really, the whole thing is about whose team is better at the Internet. Drake is better at winning over Twitter/Tumblr teens because he basically is one; he's speaking their language. Meek . . . Is not.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 8:37 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 8:37 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel like I should spend ages posting about American vs Canadian poverty, violence, and social services (education, health, welfare, policing), but I really don't care to get that depressed. It's simply orders of magnitude worse in the bad parts of the US.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:49 PM on August 1, 2015
posted by five fresh fish at 12:49 PM on August 1, 2015
I wasn't referring to Rick Ross not being a good rapper. I actually think he is, within the bounds of what he does. I mean he's a pure entertainer, infamously a former correctional officer of all things, playing at being Freeway Ricky Ross.
I'm not on a "side" here. The whole thing's just fun to me. But I think Yoko here is absolutely right about how this plays because when Meek Mill gets his check through Bill "Rick Ross" Roberts authenticity has long since gone out the window.
posted by atoxyl at 3:39 PM on August 1, 2015
I'm not on a "side" here. The whole thing's just fun to me. But I think Yoko here is absolutely right about how this plays because when Meek Mill gets his check through Bill "Rick Ross" Roberts authenticity has long since gone out the window.
posted by atoxyl at 3:39 PM on August 1, 2015
I'm not talking shit about Meek as a rapper either - I simply don't know him very well.
posted by atoxyl at 3:42 PM on August 1, 2015
posted by atoxyl at 3:42 PM on August 1, 2015
I don't know rap... but I do know Canadian poverty, and you are talking out of your ass.
SO MUCH THIS. The whole notion that "Canada doesn't have slums" is complete horseshit. The neighbourhood I live in is, for better or worse, slowly gentrifying and overcoming its reputation as a ghetto, but I still get funny looks from Toronto folk when I tell them what part of the city I live in....
posted by tantrumthecat at 9:22 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
SO MUCH THIS. The whole notion that "Canada doesn't have slums" is complete horseshit. The neighbourhood I live in is, for better or worse, slowly gentrifying and overcoming its reputation as a ghetto, but I still get funny looks from Toronto folk when I tell them what part of the city I live in....
posted by tantrumthecat at 9:22 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
beefs
I feel like it should be beeves. It's nagging at me when I say it out loud. Beefs. Knife, knives. Beefs, beeves.
posted by discopolo at 12:16 AM on August 2, 2015
I feel like it should be beeves. It's nagging at me when I say it out loud. Beefs. Knife, knives. Beefs, beeves.
posted by discopolo at 12:16 AM on August 2, 2015
discopolo: I've seen 17th century farm records that use the term "beeves".
posted by jb at 7:17 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jb at 7:17 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
cashman: I'm genuinely curious now. What are your favorite Meek lines? And can you link the songs they come from. Link his 8 or 9 songs you feel are his best.
Ooof, give me a bit. If I had seen this sooner I'd have a list by now but this is gonna take a second.
posted by gucci mane at 12:47 PM on August 2, 2015
Ooof, give me a bit. If I had seen this sooner I'd have a list by now but this is gonna take a second.
posted by gucci mane at 12:47 PM on August 2, 2015
SO MUCH THIS. The whole notion that "Canada doesn't have slums" is complete horseshit.
Well, anyone who remembers Informer by Snow would know that he was from the Toronto slums and thats why he rapped with a fake Jamaican accent.
Really, he explains it at length.
I'm sorry, I had to.
posted by lkc at 1:06 PM on August 2, 2015
Well, anyone who remembers Informer by Snow would know that he was from the Toronto slums and thats why he rapped with a fake Jamaican accent.
Really, he explains it at length.
I'm sorry, I had to.
posted by lkc at 1:06 PM on August 2, 2015
discopolo: I've seen 17th century farm records that use the term "beeves".
Thank God. I feel better. Thanks, jb.
posted by discopolo at 3:19 PM on August 2, 2015
Thank God. I feel better. Thanks, jb.
posted by discopolo at 3:19 PM on August 2, 2015
(3 weeks later)
Gucci Mane: This songs pretty good I guess (posts I Wanna Know)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Gucci Mane: This songs pretty good I guess (posts I Wanna Know)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
By the way: FFF, the idea that hip hop is an untutored expression of poor black American anger is itself hella racist. Rapping is an artform and you don't have to be poor urban and black to master it anymore than you have to be poor rural and black to play guitar. GTFOH with that authenticity garbage.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:04 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:04 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ooof, give me a bit.
Well I didn't mean for it to turn into a chore. I just figured if you were well versed with his stuff enough to give all that praise, that you could drop a few gems on me.
posted by cashman at 8:22 PM on August 2, 2015
Well I didn't mean for it to turn into a chore. I just figured if you were well versed with his stuff enough to give all that praise, that you could drop a few gems on me.
posted by cashman at 8:22 PM on August 2, 2015
Since I was already "that guy" once over Informer, I can just link to a little deeper discussion about him.
posted by klangklangston at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by klangklangston at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2015
cashman it's no biggie I just lost my computer so I have to go through YouTube and such :P
Here's the 13 best Meek Mill freestyle battles courtesy of XXL however.
I'd recommend his mixtape Dreamchasers 2, which I think actually has a Drake feature on it lol but it's more recent. He has these older tapes called Flamers, and there are 3, maybe 4, of those as well.
posted by gucci mane at 5:12 PM on August 3, 2015
Here's the 13 best Meek Mill freestyle battles courtesy of XXL however.
I'd recommend his mixtape Dreamchasers 2, which I think actually has a Drake feature on it lol but it's more recent. He has these older tapes called Flamers, and there are 3, maybe 4, of those as well.
posted by gucci mane at 5:12 PM on August 3, 2015
Oh yeah, Flamers 3 has this song that I always thought went really hard.
posted by gucci mane at 5:18 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 5:18 PM on August 3, 2015
They don't care was nice. Gangsta Grizeelz is never bad to have involved also. The rest of the videos were just so so to me. I think his style is mostly close to that no-beat battle rap spoken word flow that just sounds like nothing to me. It's like there was an epoch of battle raps over beats, then freestyle battle raps over beats (where it was actual raps composed on the spot, not the original "freestyle" as defined by Kane where it was just loose raps), then it devolved into spitting your lyrics like limericks in a near rhythmless way to dead air and "whoo"s from the crowd, so that if nobody was around and it was just the two of you battling it would sound so vacant.
But that's okay I guess. It's what made that rap battle parody so hilarious and so spot on. And lucky for me, the stuff that I like still exists, and is still rough rugged and raw. I just look for something in a rhymer, and I don't see much there with this dude. Even with guys I don't like, I can see something. But I guess I'm just not who he appeals to. And that's quite alright, he can do him. FT is 10 times the rapper he is, but almost nobody talks about him. There are so many dudes way nicer than this guy. If those things are the best to offer from Meek, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything like I thought I might have. I slept on Black Thought for the longest. Slept on Phonte. Slept on Phonte thinking he was Black Thought. But this guy will be
posted by cashman at 7:52 AM on August 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
But that's okay I guess. It's what made that rap battle parody so hilarious and so spot on. And lucky for me, the stuff that I like still exists, and is still rough rugged and raw. I just look for something in a rhymer, and I don't see much there with this dude. Even with guys I don't like, I can see something. But I guess I'm just not who he appeals to. And that's quite alright, he can do him. FT is 10 times the rapper he is, but almost nobody talks about him. There are so many dudes way nicer than this guy. If those things are the best to offer from Meek, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything like I thought I might have. I slept on Black Thought for the longest. Slept on Phonte. Slept on Phonte thinking he was Black Thought. But this guy will be
posted by cashman at 7:52 AM on August 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by jb at 10:42 PM on July 30, 2015 [2 favorites]