Biden 2016?
August 3, 2015 5:58 AM Subscribe
Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his associates have begun to actively explore a possible presidential campaign. Mr. Biden’s advisers have started to reach out to Democratic leaders and donors who have not yet committed to Mrs. Clinton or who have grown concerned about what they see as her increasingly visible vulnerabilities as a candidate.
I love Uncle Joe like I've loved few national politicians in my lifetime. And he'd give Honest Abe a run for the $5.00 bill in the honesty department any day. But he'd be the oldest president on the books if elected, and that does worry me. It's a grueling job that tends to take a physical and metal toll on the people who attempt it.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:09 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:09 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
If he does decide to run, I kind of need THIS to be on his election posters.
posted by Fizz at 6:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 6:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Biden 2016 is like the political version of a Ringo Starr solo album
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [44 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [44 favorites]
Is there any other evidence than this article or is this just the New York Times getting their Hillary hate on again?
posted by octothorpe at 6:14 AM on August 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:14 AM on August 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
he'd be the oldest president on the books if elected, and that does worry me. It's a grueling job that tends to take a physical and metal toll on the people who attempt it.
Thus the importance of selecting a contrasting running mate:
Biden / Booker 2016?
posted by Herodios at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Thus the importance of selecting a contrasting running mate:
Biden / Booker 2016?
posted by Herodios at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is there any other evidence than this article or is this just the New York Times getting their Hillary hate on again?
posted by octothorpe at 6:14 AM on August 3
what do you mean? You think the sources they quote are lying, or the NYT is lying about its sources saying that Biden is exploring a presidential campaign?
posted by jayder at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 6:14 AM on August 3
what do you mean? You think the sources they quote are lying, or the NYT is lying about its sources saying that Biden is exploring a presidential campaign?
posted by jayder at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2015
You think the sources they quote are lying, or the NYT is lying about its sources saying that Biden is exploring a presidential campaign?
Yes and yes. I mean, this was only a week ago. Have we started trusting the Time again? I certainly haven't. Or ever will again.
posted by octothorpe at 6:22 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yes and yes. I mean, this was only a week ago. Have we started trusting the Time again? I certainly haven't. Or ever will again.
posted by octothorpe at 6:22 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't see anything coming of this, but Democrats in Iowa truly love Biden, in a basically personal way. He seems like a good guy. He feels like a real person. He's too old, but I think he would get some support anyway.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:22 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:22 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Biden 2016 is like the political version of a Ringo Starr solo album
What, you mean "fantastic and supported by performances from talented and loyal friends who are tops in their field"?
posted by Herodios at 6:24 AM on August 3, 2015 [31 favorites]
What, you mean "fantastic and supported by performances from talented and loyal friends who are tops in their field"?
posted by Herodios at 6:24 AM on August 3, 2015 [31 favorites]
Perry Bible Fellowship made a comic aptly demonstrating Biden and the media cheerleading a Biden campaign.
Hillary Clinton has sewn up pretty much every major endorsement and has a ridiculously huge warchest. Biden has, by all accounts, done absolutely zero groundwork and has spent no time preparing for a campaign. With Sanders taking up all the space to Clinton's left as she tacks in his direction to keep her ties to the left of the party intact, there is simply no oxygen left for Biden in the nomination.
posted by Punkey at 6:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hillary Clinton has sewn up pretty much every major endorsement and has a ridiculously huge warchest. Biden has, by all accounts, done absolutely zero groundwork and has spent no time preparing for a campaign. With Sanders taking up all the space to Clinton's left as she tacks in his direction to keep her ties to the left of the party intact, there is simply no oxygen left for Biden in the nomination.
posted by Punkey at 6:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Biden 2016 is like the political version of a Ringo Starr solo album
Well, It don't come easy, that's for sure.
posted by jonmc at 6:28 AM on August 3, 2015 [15 favorites]
Well, It don't come easy, that's for sure.
posted by jonmc at 6:28 AM on August 3, 2015 [15 favorites]
Biden / Booker 2016?
A hypothetical "Trust Biden" campaign couldn't pick a less trustworthy running mate than Wall Street's odious chosen one, the union-busting, entitlement slashing cat food enthusiast Cory Booker. But I guess if you were going for contrast...
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:36 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
A hypothetical "Trust Biden" campaign couldn't pick a less trustworthy running mate than Wall Street's odious chosen one, the union-busting, entitlement slashing cat food enthusiast Cory Booker. But I guess if you were going for contrast...
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:36 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Supposedly, several of Beau Biden's last words were strongly encouraging his father to run. I love Joe Biden but I hope he doesn't run.
posted by kat518 at 6:39 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by kat518 at 6:39 AM on August 3, 2015
He was just biden his time.
posted by eriko at 6:40 AM on August 3, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by eriko at 6:40 AM on August 3, 2015 [13 favorites]
I would like to see Joe run and win because my story about the time I met him in high school becomes much more compelling when it's the future President handling my yo-yo.
posted by logicpunk at 6:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by logicpunk at 6:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
Wall Street's odious chosen one
I have no interest in precipitating yet another round of the electability / purity argument.
Nevertheless, I estimate a 50 / 50 probability that Booker will be either president or VP one day.
posted by Herodios at 6:45 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have no interest in precipitating yet another round of the electability / purity argument.
Nevertheless, I estimate a 50 / 50 probability that Booker will be either president or VP one day.
posted by Herodios at 6:45 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Biden and Clinton are both such long-term insider establishment Dems that I have trouble believing there's not some element of cooperation or at least communication in this. Is it possible this is being floated in part to help shift the Overton window left for Clinton, supplementing Sanders' campaign? If Biden runs Hilary would surely spin it as two adults with minor disagreements with herself as the more moderate, then you have your kind of wacky but still pretty reasonable uncle Bernie, then lump the GOP candidates together as the really crazy cousins who you still have to invite to Thanksgiving but don't actually let be in charge of anything or leave your children with. No? Am I misreading this?
posted by Wretch729 at 6:46 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Wretch729 at 6:46 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
As Obama's VP, wouldn't Biden be subject to the agreement Obama made with Clinton in 2008 to support Clinton's 2016 run?
I imagine there are Democrats encouraging Biden to seek the nomination. But it has more to do with Sanders than Clinton. Centrists Democrats who are nervous about Sanders popularity want another establishment Dem in the race as insurance in case Clinton plops.
posted by riruro at 6:50 AM on August 3, 2015
I imagine there are Democrats encouraging Biden to seek the nomination. But it has more to do with Sanders than Clinton. Centrists Democrats who are nervous about Sanders popularity want another establishment Dem in the race as insurance in case Clinton plops.
posted by riruro at 6:50 AM on August 3, 2015
No? Am I misreading this?
I really can't see the presidential election as a family melodrama any more than I can see it as a rock and roll album review column.
posted by Herodios at 6:51 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I really can't see the presidential election as a family melodrama any more than I can see it as a rock and roll album review column.
posted by Herodios at 6:51 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
As Obama's VP, wouldn't Biden be subject to the agreement Obama made with Clinton in 2008 to support Clinton's 2016 run?
Wait, is that an actual known agreement or one hypothesized by insiders? I don't recall hearing about it.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:54 AM on August 3, 2015
Wait, is that an actual known agreement or one hypothesized by insiders? I don't recall hearing about it.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:54 AM on August 3, 2015
Biden is the best vice president ever. He needs to remain second on the ticket up to and beyond his death.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:57 AM on August 3, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:57 AM on August 3, 2015 [15 favorites]
Clinton's negatives are very high for the polling leader -- she's anything but inevitable. If you want to be President someday, and you can raise or have spendable $100 million, no better year than 2016.
Vice Presidents have a very hard time not getting their party's nomination. Incumbent and former VPs have been denied in only two extreme cases: Dan Quayle (never serious), and Hubert Humphrey in 1972, who'd been the losing nominee four years before and who was tarred with a pro-(Vietnam)-war legacy in a Democratic primary and caucus electorate that by 1972 had become staunchly anti-war.
posted by MattD at 7:02 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Vice Presidents have a very hard time not getting their party's nomination. Incumbent and former VPs have been denied in only two extreme cases: Dan Quayle (never serious), and Hubert Humphrey in 1972, who'd been the losing nominee four years before and who was tarred with a pro-(Vietnam)-war legacy in a Democratic primary and caucus electorate that by 1972 had become staunchly anti-war.
posted by MattD at 7:02 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
y'all fucked anyway. when i work out how, i'm putting money on that guy with the wig.
posted by andrewcooke at 7:03 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by andrewcooke at 7:03 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
(This in the modern era where Vice Presidents were considered by default to be of Presidential timber, as opposed to preceding times when generally the opposite was supposed.)
posted by MattD at 7:04 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MattD at 7:04 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think he's too old. I'd love to see him run, and win. But I also sort of feel like he has more than earned the right to enjoy a long and lovely retirement.
posted by spilon at 7:09 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by spilon at 7:09 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Biden is the best vice president ever.
What about Henry Wallace? He was pretty darn good. Nearly won the primary from Truman, later. (Apparently Truman took the party nomination through internal Democratic Party shenanigans.)
posted by Jubal Kessler at 7:13 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
What about Henry Wallace? He was pretty darn good. Nearly won the primary from Truman, later. (Apparently Truman took the party nomination through internal Democratic Party shenanigans.)
posted by Jubal Kessler at 7:13 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I love Joe Biden and would gladly vote for him if he ran, although I doubt he's got a real chance at being elected --- both his age and his closeness to Obama (neither of which I personally object to), among other things, would be held against him by his opponents.
Sanders has that word 'socialist' for baggage and O'Malley & the rest of the Democratic contenders are still cyphers to the majority of the population, but then again: at this point eight years ago, who'd have predicted Obama would've come out on top?
I absolutely abhor Hilary Clinton, and could only conceive of voting for her if the Republican nominee is even more distasteful, but it'd be a close call. In which case yes, I'd hold my nose and vote for her, but it'd be more of a vote against her opponent than for her.
posted by easily confused at 7:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sanders has that word 'socialist' for baggage and O'Malley & the rest of the Democratic contenders are still cyphers to the majority of the population, but then again: at this point eight years ago, who'd have predicted Obama would've come out on top?
I absolutely abhor Hilary Clinton, and could only conceive of voting for her if the Republican nominee is even more distasteful, but it'd be a close call. In which case yes, I'd hold my nose and vote for her, but it'd be more of a vote against her opponent than for her.
posted by easily confused at 7:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
when i work out how, i'm putting money on that guy with the wig.
MeMail me, as I'd be thrilled tohelp you out take your money.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:25 AM on August 3, 2015
MeMail me, as I'd be thrilled to
posted by Xavier Xavier at 7:25 AM on August 3, 2015
I hope Onion Biden runs. The debates with Real Trump would be fucking epic.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [37 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [37 favorites]
I am just deeply disturbed that Clinton's campaign is vulnerable enough that this is happening. I am starting to feel the unease when it became sort of clear that Kerry was lacking the spontaneous charisma needed to the extent that we re-elected one of the worst administrations this country has seen.
One thing Biden is is charismatic. But he's also a gaffe machine. I'm also uneasy about some of the history of allegations against him for plagiarism and, in the aughts, his plan to separate Iraq into three regions.
I'm also sad that there is nobody, save maybe Elizabeth Warren, who is in the wings as a potential star four years from now. The GOP has a huge field of admittedly disgusting people, but at least they have a roster.
posted by angrycat at 7:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
One thing Biden is is charismatic. But he's also a gaffe machine. I'm also uneasy about some of the history of allegations against him for plagiarism and, in the aughts, his plan to separate Iraq into three regions.
I'm also sad that there is nobody, save maybe Elizabeth Warren, who is in the wings as a potential star four years from now. The GOP has a huge field of admittedly disgusting people, but at least they have a roster.
posted by angrycat at 7:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Cookiebastard:
posted by charred husk at 7:39 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
"I hope Onion Biden runs."Oh god yes.
posted by charred husk at 7:39 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Yes and yes. I mean, this was only a week ago. Have we started trusting the Time again? I certainly haven't. Or ever will again."
That Newsweek story also contains inaccuracies. I just left a comment about it on the other thread.
posted by I-baLL at 7:40 AM on August 3, 2015
That Newsweek story also contains inaccuracies. I just left a comment about it on the other thread.
posted by I-baLL at 7:40 AM on August 3, 2015
easily confused , I share your distaste for Clinton, but let me assure you as a friend you have never met, that the Republican nominee will be more distasteful, probably by an astonishingly slim degree (in terms of abject worship of late stage capitalism and war horniness). And yet that slim degree is so profoundly important that even I, the archetype of a protest voter, am going to tick the box next to her name so hard that the elderly republicans (Cape Cod) to my left and right will be scrubbing blue ink off themselves for a month.
I'm down with Joe B., but I think Clinton is way too heavy in the game at this point (barring MAJOR scandal) to not get the nom.
All of this is irrelevant anyway because I've constructed a 100% airtight fantasy world where Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are co-presidents and everything is just incredibly chill.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:40 AM on August 3, 2015 [28 favorites]
I'm down with Joe B., but I think Clinton is way too heavy in the game at this point (barring MAJOR scandal) to not get the nom.
All of this is irrelevant anyway because I've constructed a 100% airtight fantasy world where Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are co-presidents and everything is just incredibly chill.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:40 AM on August 3, 2015 [28 favorites]
Isn't it less a matter of Biden wanting to run versus the Democrat/Republican establishment ginning up Plan C? If both Clinton and Bush fail to secure voter support the bankers, warmongers, and insurance companies will be in a terrible bind.
posted by three blind mice at 7:41 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by three blind mice at 7:41 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
when it's the future President handling my yo-yo.
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
posted by aught at 7:42 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
posted by aught at 7:42 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
I am just deeply disturbed that Clinton's campaign is vulnerable enough that this is happening.
I'm not even sure what this means.
posted by smackfu at 7:45 AM on August 3, 2015
I'm not even sure what this means.
posted by smackfu at 7:45 AM on August 3, 2015
Yes, please run Biden! Clinton has done all the back room deals she needs to succeed but when it comes to actual campaign she is completely underwhelming, at her very best. The positions she puts forward, even when I agree completely, come across as weak at best and false at worst. And she completely undercut Planned Parenthood when she should have been undercutting her opponents, the liars that are trying to deceive the public. Instead of being a champion for her allies, she's a panderer to people who will never vote for her. This is not a recipe for getting votes. I still recall Biden's debate performances fondly, so he has that going for him. Basically the only thing I like about Clinton is that she would be the first woman in the office, but I'm not sure if that's enough of a reason to get excited when I dislike her politics so much. I wouldn't be super excited about any conservative getting the office, regardless of their personal identity.
The people that dislike Obama are never going to vote for any Democrat. There are better ways to grab the undecided than being slighty to the progressive side of the crazy Republicans. How about forging and articulating an actual identity rather than being reactive to the current media narrative?
posted by Llama-Lime at 7:45 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
The people that dislike Obama are never going to vote for any Democrat. There are better ways to grab the undecided than being slighty to the progressive side of the crazy Republicans. How about forging and articulating an actual identity rather than being reactive to the current media narrative?
posted by Llama-Lime at 7:45 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
dances_with_sneetches: "Biden is the best vice president ever. He needs to remain second on the ticket up to and beyond his death."
Seriously, he should run for VP again. He knows the job.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:56 AM on August 3, 2015
Seriously, he should run for VP again. He knows the job.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:56 AM on August 3, 2015
there is nobody, save maybe Elizabeth Warren, who is in the wings
Democrats keep trying to change things from the top. Democrats -- dem - o - crats -- looking for a white knight to ride in and save them.
How many times do you have to be told: run for dogcatcher, school board, city council, any up-for-grabs state-level seat that opens up. Encourage your smart and charismatic friend to do the same. That is a how you establish one-on-one dialog with voters, forge political relationships, get you policies and views into the public record, test your political skills, and build a farm team.
That is what the GOP did from the 1970s on and that is what got them to where they are today: the majority party, despite representing policies opposed by the majority of voterrs.
Now: Imagine if sane people did this.
posted by Herodios at 8:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [22 favorites]
Democrats keep trying to change things from the top. Democrats -- dem - o - crats -- looking for a white knight to ride in and save them.
How many times do you have to be told: run for dogcatcher, school board, city council, any up-for-grabs state-level seat that opens up. Encourage your smart and charismatic friend to do the same. That is a how you establish one-on-one dialog with voters, forge political relationships, get you policies and views into the public record, test your political skills, and build a farm team.
That is what the GOP did from the 1970s on and that is what got them to where they are today: the majority party, despite representing policies opposed by the majority of voterrs.
Now: Imagine if sane people did this.
posted by Herodios at 8:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [22 favorites]
If he runs he'd also have to explain this behavior.
posted by charred husk at 8:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by charred husk at 8:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
Or why he's anti-encryption, supports felony convictions for recording radio, etc.
posted by I-baLL at 8:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by I-baLL at 8:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Biden is also largely responsible for this peace of crap which has been killing kids at parties for years and which he hasn't shown a bit of regret for bringing into existence.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 8:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Like Webb, the main effect of Biden running will be to give Clinton cover on her right. I expect they may line them up literally in that way during the debates: Clinton in the center, Biden and Sanders to either side (assuming they are the runners-up in the polling), and O'Malley and Webb on the edges. Sanders or O'Malley will make some "extreme" claim, Biden and Webb will present the "reasonable" position, and Clinton can say, "well, of course we have to be reasonable, but I do sympathize with the bleeding hearts on my left..."
posted by chortly at 8:32 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by chortly at 8:32 AM on August 3, 2015
Biden is also largely responsible for this peace of crap which has been killing kids at parties for years and which he hasn't shown a bit of regret for bringing into existence.
Why specifically has that law led to deaths? Did it hinder harm reduction efforts at raves?
posted by dontjumplarry at 8:41 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why specifically has that law led to deaths? Did it hinder harm reduction efforts at raves?
posted by dontjumplarry at 8:41 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
One of my regrets from the 2012 election is that I didn't get around to buying a Joe Biden beer cozy before the Obama/Biden campaign (wisely) pulled them from the online store. I hope another Biden run would put them back on the shelves.
More seriously, I want him to run because the more big name candidates the Democrats run, the better. We're lined up for six months of nonstop media attention on the Republican clown car until voting starts in February. Without more candidates on the Democratic side, the media won't have much of an incentive to cover Democtatic policies and the Overton window will continue its rightward march.
posted by Banknote of the year at 8:43 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
More seriously, I want him to run because the more big name candidates the Democrats run, the better. We're lined up for six months of nonstop media attention on the Republican clown car until voting starts in February. Without more candidates on the Democratic side, the media won't have much of an incentive to cover Democtatic policies and the Overton window will continue its rightward march.
posted by Banknote of the year at 8:43 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
my story about the time I met him in high school
excuse me but how dare you not finish this story.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:46 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
excuse me but how dare you not finish this story.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:46 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
If he does decide to run, I kind of need THIS to be on his election posters.
I'm kind of partial to this, honestly.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:50 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm kind of partial to this, honestly.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:50 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Honestly, I think Diamond Joe is just doing it in hopes of finally being able to park a Shelby-tuned Mustang in the White House driveway.
That, and Skinny Pete and Jo-Jo are really starting to lean on him for that 5 gs he owes them after the Women's World Cup- the bump in pay would really help him take the heat off.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:51 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
That, and Skinny Pete and Jo-Jo are really starting to lean on him for that 5 gs he owes them after the Women's World Cup- the bump in pay would really help him take the heat off.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:51 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am just deeply disturbed that Clinton's campaign is vulnerable enough that this is happening.
This is happening to make it seem that Clinton's campaign is vulnerable.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:51 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is happening to make it seem that Clinton's campaign is vulnerable.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:51 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is happening to make it seem that Clinton's campaign is vulnerable.
Except not really. I think many, many people who would vote for HRC are lukewarm about it and will gladly jump ship if they can.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Except not really. I think many, many people who would vote for HRC are lukewarm about it and will gladly jump ship if they can.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
That, and Skinny Pete and Jo-Jo are really starting to lean on him for that 5 gs he owes them after the Women's World Cup- the bump in pay would really help him take the heat off.
Sir, if you are suggesting that Diamond Joe Biden would bet against the U.S., regardless of the action, I shall have to ask you to step outside.
posted by Etrigan at 9:01 AM on August 3, 2015
Sir, if you are suggesting that Diamond Joe Biden would bet against the U.S., regardless of the action, I shall have to ask you to step outside.
posted by Etrigan at 9:01 AM on August 3, 2015
Sir, if you are suggesting that Diamond Joe Biden would bet against the U.S., regardless of the action, I shall have to ask you to step outside.
Nah, he just fucked up the spread. I sure hope he won't have to try filing for bankruptcy over the debt.
posted by cog_nate at 9:04 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nah, he just fucked up the spread. I sure hope he won't have to try filing for bankruptcy over the debt.
posted by cog_nate at 9:04 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I really can't see the presidential election as a family melodrama any more than I can see it as a rock and roll album review column.
Pitchfork Presents: Mark Everson, you've probably never heard of him.
posted by Fizz at 9:06 AM on August 3, 2015
Pitchfork Presents: Mark Everson, you've probably never heard of him.
posted by Fizz at 9:06 AM on August 3, 2015
there is nobody, save maybe Elizabeth Warren, who is in the wings
Well, apart from Cory Booker. And Andew Cuomo. And Jim Webb. And Terry McAuliffe. And Tom Wolf. And John Hickenlooper. And Amy Klobuchar. And Rahm Emanuel. And Julian Castro. And Kirsten Gillibrand. And Mark Warner. And Deval Patrick. And Antonio Villaraigosa. And Brian Schweitzer.
Certainly you might not be very excited about some of those folks, no doubt some of them harbor no particular presidential ambitions, and no doubt many of them wouldn't be the winner of a contested primary. But the idea that there's no bench is just wrong.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well, apart from Cory Booker. And Andew Cuomo. And Jim Webb. And Terry McAuliffe. And Tom Wolf. And John Hickenlooper. And Amy Klobuchar. And Rahm Emanuel. And Julian Castro. And Kirsten Gillibrand. And Mark Warner. And Deval Patrick. And Antonio Villaraigosa. And Brian Schweitzer.
Certainly you might not be very excited about some of those folks, no doubt some of them harbor no particular presidential ambitions, and no doubt many of them wouldn't be the winner of a contested primary. But the idea that there's no bench is just wrong.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Kirsten Gillibrand is my senator, and she's really great.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:10 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:10 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
I kind of like the idea of Gore running again. Unfortunately I haven't heard anything to suggest he's even thinking about it.
posted by uosuaq at 9:14 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by uosuaq at 9:14 AM on August 3, 2015
The people that dislike Obama are never going to vote for any Democrat.
This is certainly true among conservatives, but I also think there's a sizable number of centrists who've absorbed the anti-Obama sentiment coming from the right while being neutral or favorable towards his policies. This is the crowd who will say they support Policy Initiative X up until the point where you mention Obama's name. A lot of them are swing voters with a fairly shallow understanding of current political issues, and they're heavily swayed by whatever direction public opinion is blowing come election time. A populist democrat in the right place at the right time can pick up a lot of votes from this crowd--e.g., Obama in 2008. The flip side is that they're not reliable votes. Any last-minute upset can change the game.
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:15 AM on August 3, 2015
This is certainly true among conservatives, but I also think there's a sizable number of centrists who've absorbed the anti-Obama sentiment coming from the right while being neutral or favorable towards his policies. This is the crowd who will say they support Policy Initiative X up until the point where you mention Obama's name. A lot of them are swing voters with a fairly shallow understanding of current political issues, and they're heavily swayed by whatever direction public opinion is blowing come election time. A populist democrat in the right place at the right time can pick up a lot of votes from this crowd--e.g., Obama in 2008. The flip side is that they're not reliable votes. Any last-minute upset can change the game.
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:15 AM on August 3, 2015
excuse me but how dare you not finish this story.
Apologies. I told the story in a previous thread about Joe.
I am also of the opinion that once a body has worked another's yo-yo, it seems a bit silly to stand on ceremony. Joe hasn't mentioned that my use of his first name bothers him yet.
posted by logicpunk at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2015
Apologies. I told the story in a previous thread about Joe.
I am also of the opinion that once a body has worked another's yo-yo, it seems a bit silly to stand on ceremony. Joe hasn't mentioned that my use of his first name bothers him yet.
posted by logicpunk at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2015
This is no conspiracy. These favorability ratings are dire for any front-runner, and especially bad for someone whose key arguments are not policy-based but personal: nostalgia for (Bill) Clinton-era peace and prosperity, rooting desire for a woman to become President.
As a result, any Democrat who wants to be President should be running. She is beatable for the nomination, and the nominee comes into the election a strong favorite, with Obama likely to remain popular and any of the Republican notables likely to start in a deep hole with independents, either due to the ideology of the Cruz / Walker alignment or lingering distate for George W. Bush that Jeb has to overcome.
posted by MattD at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
As a result, any Democrat who wants to be President should be running. She is beatable for the nomination, and the nominee comes into the election a strong favorite, with Obama likely to remain popular and any of the Republican notables likely to start in a deep hole with independents, either due to the ideology of the Cruz / Walker alignment or lingering distate for George W. Bush that Jeb has to overcome.
posted by MattD at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
i love Warren and like Booker, but I guess what I'm saying in 2004 Obama was seriously exciting and his speech at the 2004 convention -- the 2008 stage was already set. I dunno, maybe Warren and Booker will be up to run in 2020. Maybe De Blasio?
Is Cuomo really a leader for the left? The leftists in NYC I know hate hate hate him.
posted by angrycat at 10:08 AM on August 3, 2015
Is Cuomo really a leader for the left? The leftists in NYC I know hate hate hate him.
posted by angrycat at 10:08 AM on August 3, 2015
I love Warren with a passion, but I still think she's more valuable where she is right now.
The more I read in this thread, though, the more I'm taken with the notion of Biden as the running mate of the next candidate.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:19 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
The more I read in this thread, though, the more I'm taken with the notion of Biden as the running mate of the next candidate.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:19 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I really don't get where all the adoration of Biden comes from. Finding the differences among all these establishment Democrats seems like splitting hairs.
Ok, so the Onion loves him, he's a bit more charismatic, and he did something with a yo-yo once. Is this why I'm supposed to hope he runs for president?
Even the NYT article only really says that some are leaning towards him because another Clinton is anathema to a lot of people. It doesn't sound like we're talking about principled policy differences here. This is just celebrity politics.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 10:23 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
Ok, so the Onion loves him, he's a bit more charismatic, and he did something with a yo-yo once. Is this why I'm supposed to hope he runs for president?
Even the NYT article only really says that some are leaning towards him because another Clinton is anathema to a lot of people. It doesn't sound like we're talking about principled policy differences here. This is just celebrity politics.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 10:23 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
This is just celebrity politics.
You have a very different definition of "celebrity" from me if you're using it to describe a sitting two-term Vice President who spent six terms in the U.S. Senate (where he chaired the Foreign Relations and Judiciary committees).
posted by Etrigan at 11:01 AM on August 3, 2015
You have a very different definition of "celebrity" from me if you're using it to describe a sitting two-term Vice President who spent six terms in the U.S. Senate (where he chaired the Foreign Relations and Judiciary committees).
posted by Etrigan at 11:01 AM on August 3, 2015
To those suggesting that the Denvratic Party doesn't have anyone waiting in the wings as potential candidates for 2020 and beyond, I'd be curious to hear how you felt about Barack Obama before he spoke at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He was a state senator at the time. A lot can change in four years.
posted by kat518 at 11:20 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by kat518 at 11:20 AM on August 3, 2015
You know who would actually make a good running mate for Biden? California Governor Jerry Brown. He's brought California out of a real fiscal mess with some tough decisions. Two guys who "shoot straight from the lip" would be risky, however.
posted by spock at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by spock at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2015
Well, surely with such a long and distinguished career in public service, someone in this 70-comment-deep thread would have mentioned a positive position Biden took that distinguishes him from Hillary. And yet no one has, so far as I can tell. This is what I mean by "celebrity politics."
Someone did mention a supposedly terrible piece of legislation Biden sponsored, which doesn't reflect well on him. I clicked through to read about it and -- surprise -- Hillary was a co-sponsor.
So, I ask again, would any presumptive Biden supporter care to make a case about what distinguishes him from other centrist Democrat contenders, other than superficialities?
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Someone did mention a supposedly terrible piece of legislation Biden sponsored, which doesn't reflect well on him. I clicked through to read about it and -- surprise -- Hillary was a co-sponsor.
So, I ask again, would any presumptive Biden supporter care to make a case about what distinguishes him from other centrist Democrat contenders, other than superficialities?
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, while we're talking about Democratic up-and-comers generally, I'd encourage you to check out Kamala Harris, California's attorney general running for Barbara Boxer's Senate seat.
posted by kat518 at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by kat518 at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2015
You know who would actually make a good running mate for Biden? California Governor Jerry Brown.
Congratulations! You have identified one of the few current Democratic office holders who is older than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
posted by kat518 at 11:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Congratulations! You have identified one of the few current Democratic office holders who is older than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
posted by kat518 at 11:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is Cuomo really a leader for the left? The leftists in NYC I know hate hate hate him.
I don't know about a "leader for the left" but he's a Democrat with a lot of power (and I believe a lot of money in his campaign accounts).
His actual policies (from a lefty perspective) are decidedly mixed, and many actions he's taken pertaining to big business, crime, and taxes are actually (what I would call) right of center - I mean, this is how he gets votes in (conservative upstate) NY, the parts that aren't NYC and suburbs, talking tough on crime and making tax cuts. On the other hand, he holds the line on some classic liberal issues such as abortion rights, equal pay for women, supporting same-sex marriage, raising minimum wage, and controlling pollution. And he did support a ban on fracking in NY.
Still, he's upset some on the left by cutting state funds for education (through tax caps at the local level that really hurt impoverished districts) and endless fighting with the teachers union, usually over budgets, the common core curriculum, and charter schools. But all that aside, he might have serious problems explaining to a broader constituency why he abruptly quashed an ethics investigation he promised to pursue during his last campaign when it seemed to be getting too close to his own administration.
So, many of us (Democrats) in NY do in fact dislike him. He's not his father, that's for sure. One of his image problems is that he's a hopeless bloviator, and loves issuing sweeping pronouncements and generalizations about those who don't agree with him.
I guess I'm not sure I would vote for him for Governor again, never mind President. Still, one gets the distinct impression he is lurking in the wings for an opportunity, should Clinton falter. But he rose to national attention thanks to being a Cabinet secretary under Bill Clinton, so I imagine he would not overtly challenge Hillary Clinton unless it's clear her candidacy is doomed. Or I don't know, maybe he would - he does have a huge ego and maybe he's outgrown any debt he owed to the Clintons.
Someone up-thread put in a good word for Senator Gillibrand (who was appointed Senator by former NYS Governor Patterson). I would echo that. She's been a great surprise -- she was a "blue dog" conservative Democrat when in the House (when she only represented a conservative upstate district), but has moved to the left many issues since becoming a Senator and representing the whole state. I don't agree with all her positions, but I do think she's thoughtful and has a lot of integrity, which is obviously not always a given for national politicians.
posted by aught at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know about a "leader for the left" but he's a Democrat with a lot of power (and I believe a lot of money in his campaign accounts).
His actual policies (from a lefty perspective) are decidedly mixed, and many actions he's taken pertaining to big business, crime, and taxes are actually (what I would call) right of center - I mean, this is how he gets votes in (conservative upstate) NY, the parts that aren't NYC and suburbs, talking tough on crime and making tax cuts. On the other hand, he holds the line on some classic liberal issues such as abortion rights, equal pay for women, supporting same-sex marriage, raising minimum wage, and controlling pollution. And he did support a ban on fracking in NY.
Still, he's upset some on the left by cutting state funds for education (through tax caps at the local level that really hurt impoverished districts) and endless fighting with the teachers union, usually over budgets, the common core curriculum, and charter schools. But all that aside, he might have serious problems explaining to a broader constituency why he abruptly quashed an ethics investigation he promised to pursue during his last campaign when it seemed to be getting too close to his own administration.
So, many of us (Democrats) in NY do in fact dislike him. He's not his father, that's for sure. One of his image problems is that he's a hopeless bloviator, and loves issuing sweeping pronouncements and generalizations about those who don't agree with him.
I guess I'm not sure I would vote for him for Governor again, never mind President. Still, one gets the distinct impression he is lurking in the wings for an opportunity, should Clinton falter. But he rose to national attention thanks to being a Cabinet secretary under Bill Clinton, so I imagine he would not overtly challenge Hillary Clinton unless it's clear her candidacy is doomed. Or I don't know, maybe he would - he does have a huge ego and maybe he's outgrown any debt he owed to the Clintons.
Someone up-thread put in a good word for Senator Gillibrand (who was appointed Senator by former NYS Governor Patterson). I would echo that. She's been a great surprise -- she was a "blue dog" conservative Democrat when in the House (when she only represented a conservative upstate district), but has moved to the left many issues since becoming a Senator and representing the whole state. I don't agree with all her positions, but I do think she's thoughtful and has a lot of integrity, which is obviously not always a given for national politicians.
posted by aught at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess I'm not sure I would vote for him for Governor again
Heh. It occured to me after hitting Post that I didn't actually vote for him in 2014. But it was a safe protest vote for the very left Howie Hawkins, since the wacko Republican didn't have a chance of beating Cuomo, even if Hawkins had gotten a much larger share of the Democratic vote.
posted by aught at 11:52 AM on August 3, 2015
Heh. It occured to me after hitting Post that I didn't actually vote for him in 2014. But it was a safe protest vote for the very left Howie Hawkins, since the wacko Republican didn't have a chance of beating Cuomo, even if Hawkins had gotten a much larger share of the Democratic vote.
posted by aught at 11:52 AM on August 3, 2015
I guess what I'm saying in 2004 Obama was seriously exciting and his speech at the 2004 convention
I get it, and I'm sorry I misunderstood. It's just that "there's no bench" is something you hear fairly often, and "There's nobody right now that I, as a leftist, am excited about for 2020" is a very different thing from "There are no obvious candidates for 2020 and beyond."
Is Cuomo really a leader for the left?
Oh, God, no. But he's a credible candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2020 if Clinton flames out in the general, though you'd expect unions to press hard for most Someone Else. Ya gotta remember that leftists are not the Democratic base -- that's racial minorities, union members, and government employees, and nonsouthern women. Someone who follows the mass behavior literature would know better than I do. Anyway, you can see the conflict between leftists and the base right now in the national primary polling.
On preview: he seems to be better liked out here than downstate, which is unsurprising. With New York's population distribution, governors don't have to give the slightest fuck about WNY to win (re-)election, and many don't seem to, so Cuomo's relatively high attention to WNY seems to be welcome. I've always assumed that overtures to Buffalo and winning here are part of the groundwork for a presidential run - Look, I can win in places that aren't all lefty too.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:01 PM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I get it, and I'm sorry I misunderstood. It's just that "there's no bench" is something you hear fairly often, and "There's nobody right now that I, as a leftist, am excited about for 2020" is a very different thing from "There are no obvious candidates for 2020 and beyond."
Is Cuomo really a leader for the left?
Oh, God, no. But he's a credible candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2020 if Clinton flames out in the general, though you'd expect unions to press hard for most Someone Else. Ya gotta remember that leftists are not the Democratic base -- that's racial minorities, union members, and government employees, and nonsouthern women. Someone who follows the mass behavior literature would know better than I do. Anyway, you can see the conflict between leftists and the base right now in the national primary polling.
On preview: he seems to be better liked out here than downstate, which is unsurprising. With New York's population distribution, governors don't have to give the slightest fuck about WNY to win (re-)election, and many don't seem to, so Cuomo's relatively high attention to WNY seems to be welcome. I've always assumed that overtures to Buffalo and winning here are part of the groundwork for a presidential run - Look, I can win in places that aren't all lefty too.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:01 PM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Without knowing a lot about Cuomo, my impression is that he's the Republican's idea of a decent Democrat. What he's been doing with school funding, for example, is unconscionable. I'm in upstate NY and would not vote for him in a Democratic primary, no way.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2015
Regarding Biden's progressive credentials: There's the violence against women act. In the run-up to the Afghanistan war, he pushed a resolution to authorize force only after diplomatic channels were exhausted. As VP, he pushed back against Sec. Clinton's hawkish tendencies (although without as much success as I'd have liked). He nudged Obama into "evolving" his views on marriage equality. He and Dr. Biden have worked to improve support for returning service members. And he's not afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve, optics be damned.
He's certainly not perfect, but I can see meaningful daylight between him and Clinton, particularly on foreign policy.
posted by Banknote of the year at 12:03 PM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
He's certainly not perfect, but I can see meaningful daylight between him and Clinton, particularly on foreign policy.
posted by Banknote of the year at 12:03 PM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
I've long felt like Cuomo's greatest strength was his father and his greatest weakness is that he is not his father.
posted by kat518 at 12:04 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by kat518 at 12:04 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
You know who would actually make a good running mate for Biden? California Governor Jerry Brown.
This would have the added advantage of making Jello Biafra spontaneously combust.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:08 PM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
This would have the added advantage of making Jello Biafra spontaneously combust.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:08 PM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Nate Silver's analysis:
Biden has little rationale to enter the race this late except as a break-glass-in-case-of-Clinton-emergency candidate. His formal entry into the race would imply that Clinton’s campaign was under serious threat. [...] Biden is left running a Schrödinger’s cat campaign, neither wholly in the race or wholly out of it. That helps to explain why this past weekend’s press coverage of Biden was awfully strange.posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:25 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
That is what the GOP did from the 1970s on and that is what got them to where they are today
If by that you mean statehouse majorities that let them gerrymander locks on the legislatures, I can't really get behind you. But yea, in general bottom up is going to be more effective long term than top down.
posted by echocollate at 1:06 PM on August 3, 2015
If by that you mean statehouse majorities that let them gerrymander locks on the legislatures, I can't really get behind you. But yea, in general bottom up is going to be more effective long term than top down.
posted by echocollate at 1:06 PM on August 3, 2015
My like for Biden is about what Banknote of the year said, fundamentally I just like the cut of his jib (I mean we're talking about American politicians here, I wouldn't let one marry my daughter!).
The darkly comical thing is that for anyone who is even slightly leftish in America - we vote for the candidate and then we live with the elected official. I high fived more people in one evening than I've done in my life when Obama won the first time and I'm still flinching harder at that memory than when I asked my fifth grade crush to dance with me and my fly was somehow 150% open.
Hopeless romantic that I am I'm still holding out hope that Barack pulls a nofucksgiving and maxes out on every possible progressive thing that an exiting two term president can do. Hell, I'm two months short of my fortieth birthday and I still make wishes when I blow on dandelions.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:10 PM on August 3, 2015
The darkly comical thing is that for anyone who is even slightly leftish in America - we vote for the candidate and then we live with the elected official. I high fived more people in one evening than I've done in my life when Obama won the first time and I'm still flinching harder at that memory than when I asked my fifth grade crush to dance with me and my fly was somehow 150% open.
Hopeless romantic that I am I'm still holding out hope that Barack pulls a nofucksgiving and maxes out on every possible progressive thing that an exiting two term president can do. Hell, I'm two months short of my fortieth birthday and I still make wishes when I blow on dandelions.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:10 PM on August 3, 2015
I kind of like the idea of Gore running again. Unfortunately I haven't heard anything to suggest he's even thinking about it.
Unfortunately the GoreBot2000 was reprogrammed and had so many of its settings replaced during its conversion into RomneyBot2012 that it began to routinely malfunction (calling for things like binders full of humans as feed and unable to engage in its prior humanlike French kissing action) and was sold for scrap parts earlier this year.
posted by sallybrown at 2:33 PM on August 3, 2015
Unfortunately the GoreBot2000 was reprogrammed and had so many of its settings replaced during its conversion into RomneyBot2012 that it began to routinely malfunction (calling for things like binders full of humans as feed and unable to engage in its prior humanlike French kissing action) and was sold for scrap parts earlier this year.
posted by sallybrown at 2:33 PM on August 3, 2015
I wish I could bottle the visceral, energetic hatred Hillary's continued existence inspires in some people and use it to power my home and car. I can already tell I'll be more annoyed by the unshakeable rock of Hillary hatred in some quarters this election than I will by the wingnuts.
posted by sallybrown at 2:38 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 2:38 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is Cuomo really a leader for the left?
I'm sorry but a vote for Cuomo for President is a vote for Sandra Lee in the White House and that is just a bridge too far for any right-thinking American who has ever tuned into the Food Network.
posted by sallybrown at 2:45 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry but a vote for Cuomo for President is a vote for Sandra Lee in the White House and that is just a bridge too far for any right-thinking American who has ever tuned into the Food Network.
posted by sallybrown at 2:45 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, I ask again, would any presumptive Biden supporter care to make a case about what distinguishes him from other centrist Democrat contenders, other than superficialities?
Being politically neutral, I'm not a supporter of anybody. But it seems to me like "electability" is the polar opposite of a superficiality when it comes to politics.
posted by spock at 3:21 PM on August 3, 2015
Being politically neutral, I'm not a supporter of anybody. But it seems to me like "electability" is the polar opposite of a superficiality when it comes to politics.
posted by spock at 3:21 PM on August 3, 2015
Biden compare to Clinton (1 metric in 3 swing states) (July 22, 2015 poll numbers - source). Keep in mind this is before Biden has even announced a run.
posted by spock at 3:31 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by spock at 3:31 PM on August 3, 2015
Mod note: One comment deleted; go ahead and make your point but don't drag in a proxy fight about other stuff on MeFi - that stuff doesn't belong on the blue. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:38 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:38 PM on August 3, 2015
That is what the GOP did from the 1970s on and that is what got them to where they are today . . .
If by that you mean statehouse majorities that let them gerrymander . . .
There is quite a bit more to it than gerrymandering -- loathsome as it is when the other guys do it -- and the majorities are a necessary pre-conditon for the gerrymandering. Frustratingly for Yours Truly, the weakness of Ohio Democrats predates all gerrymandering efforts by Ohio Republicans and is directly attributable, in my view, to the weakness of Ohio Dems organization and candidate development at the state and local level.
posted by Herodios at 3:50 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
If by that you mean statehouse majorities that let them gerrymander . . .
There is quite a bit more to it than gerrymandering -- loathsome as it is when the other guys do it -- and the majorities are a necessary pre-conditon for the gerrymandering. Frustratingly for Yours Truly, the weakness of Ohio Democrats predates all gerrymandering efforts by Ohio Republicans and is directly attributable, in my view, to the weakness of Ohio Dems organization and candidate development at the state and local level.
posted by Herodios at 3:50 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
How many times do you have to be told: run for dogcatcher, school board, city council, any up-for-grabs state-level seat that opens up. Encourage your smart and charismatic friend to do the same. That is a how you establish one-on-one dialog with voters, forge political relationships, get you policies and views into the public record, test your political skills, and build a farm team.
I 100% agree with this. Are any state and national organizations actually doing this on a systematic basis? Wasn't this part of Dean's 50 state strategy? In Ohio, our state Democrats keep throwing young rising stars under the bus, such as Jennifer Brunner or P.G. Sittenfeld. They keep being told, no, wait your turn, someone else (i.e. more establishment) is up next.
It's pissing me off and not exactly making me want to devote energy to knocking on doors. And I am PRECISELY the type of local activist the Democratic party cannot afford to lose: a young middle-class professional who puts a lot of money and volunteer work into various fairly mainstream lefty causes. If the party apparatus isn't trying to identify and recruit people like me for various party politicking, then I have no idea what the hell their long-term strategy is.
posted by mostly vowels at 4:02 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I 100% agree with this. Are any state and national organizations actually doing this on a systematic basis? Wasn't this part of Dean's 50 state strategy? In Ohio, our state Democrats keep throwing young rising stars under the bus, such as Jennifer Brunner or P.G. Sittenfeld. They keep being told, no, wait your turn, someone else (i.e. more establishment) is up next.
It's pissing me off and not exactly making me want to devote energy to knocking on doors. And I am PRECISELY the type of local activist the Democratic party cannot afford to lose: a young middle-class professional who puts a lot of money and volunteer work into various fairly mainstream lefty causes. If the party apparatus isn't trying to identify and recruit people like me for various party politicking, then I have no idea what the hell their long-term strategy is.
posted by mostly vowels at 4:02 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Ugh, I realize that comment came off as way more self-involved ME ME ME than I intended. But I hope my larger point it still coherent about the local Democratic party failure's to recruit a meaningful bottom-up political apparatus.)
posted by mostly vowels at 4:05 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by mostly vowels at 4:05 PM on August 3, 2015
Are any state and national organizations actually doing this on a systematic basis?There's some stuff specifically for women: Emerge America (I can't tell from your profile exactly where you are, but they're active in one of the two states you could be in); Ready To Run (non-partisan; active in the other state you might be in); the Political Opportunity Program affiliated with Emily's List. It looks like Progressive Majority is active in your area. Are you involved with the local Democratic Party at all? Where I live, meetings are open to the public, and you could show up, introduce yourself, and get the lay of the land.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:24 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Reframing my illogically over-moderated, deleted comment:
Congratulations! You have identified one of the few current Democratic office holders who is older than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
This is true. Are you implying that this is a negative? Has Jerry Brown shown some signs of senility or other mental deficiency that would disqualify him? Or are you simply engaging in age discrimination?
posted by spock at 5:23 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Congratulations! You have identified one of the few current Democratic office holders who is older than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
This is true. Are you implying that this is a negative? Has Jerry Brown shown some signs of senility or other mental deficiency that would disqualify him? Or are you simply engaging in age discrimination?
posted by spock at 5:23 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is anyone aware of studies or other well-researched writing about the potential impact of social media on the effectiveness of the more old fashioned, cold hard cash spending in campaigns? I keep seeing the big headlines about Jeb!'s war chest dwarfing everyone else's, but with all the examples the past year has given us of unaffiliated people harnessing things like Twitter to build large, influential followings, it makes me wonder perhaps whether the value of that cash spending is declining. Essentially, can Jeb! (or any cardboard cutout candidate) outspend Donald Trump's intangible qualities, which are perfectly suited to this moment in technology? (And I'm not talking about someone like Ted Cruz trying to use money to fake Trump's very real Trumpiness.)
posted by sallybrown at 6:01 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by sallybrown at 6:01 PM on August 3, 2015
I'm also sad that there is nobody, save maybe Elizabeth Warren, who is in the wings as a potential star four years from now. The GOP has a huge field of admittedly disgusting people, but at least they have a roster.
What? There's literally two Castro twins, right there. There's Cory Booker.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:33 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
What? There's literally two Castro twins, right there. There's Cory Booker.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:33 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Biden, the Democrats' answer to Reagan. Amiable, gaff ridden, not too bright, too old for the job.
The only real populists in this race are Bernie and Donald. I wouldn't vote for either, but they provide the best in entertainment and talking points.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:53 AM on August 4, 2015
The only real populists in this race are Bernie and Donald. I wouldn't vote for either, but they provide the best in entertainment and talking points.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:53 AM on August 4, 2015
Biden, the Democrats' answer to Reagan. Amiable, gaff ridden, not too bright, too old for the job.
In other words, what you're saying is HOLY COW PICK HIM.
Do you remember just how much Reagan won by?
posted by eriko at 7:40 AM on August 4, 2015
In other words, what you're saying is HOLY COW PICK HIM.
Do you remember just how much Reagan won by?
posted by eriko at 7:40 AM on August 4, 2015
You know who would actually make a good running mate for Biden? California Governor Jerry Brown.
Congratulations! You have identified one of the few current Democratic office holders who is older than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
This would have the added advantage of making Jello Biafra spontaneously combust.
I go to a recurring punk rock karaoke night every few months, and there's a small group of dudes who keep requesting the same fucking 3 or 4 Dead Kennedys songs they apparently cannot get enough of, and the whole thing is kind of uncomfortable, not least because the mindset of a lot of that stuff is very much of its time and seems dated (if not outright terrible).
All of which is to say that California Über Alles came out 35 years ago, and Jerry Brown wasn't even a brand-new governor then, he'd been in office for 4 years. Is there anyone else who was in high-level politics in 1975 who's still getting elected to anything?
posted by Copronymus at 9:59 AM on August 4, 2015
Congratulations! You have identified one of the few current Democratic office holders who is older than Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.
This would have the added advantage of making Jello Biafra spontaneously combust.
I go to a recurring punk rock karaoke night every few months, and there's a small group of dudes who keep requesting the same fucking 3 or 4 Dead Kennedys songs they apparently cannot get enough of, and the whole thing is kind of uncomfortable, not least because the mindset of a lot of that stuff is very much of its time and seems dated (if not outright terrible).
All of which is to say that California Über Alles came out 35 years ago, and Jerry Brown wasn't even a brand-new governor then, he'd been in office for 4 years. Is there anyone else who was in high-level politics in 1975 who's still getting elected to anything?
posted by Copronymus at 9:59 AM on August 4, 2015
Is there anyone else who was in high-level politics in 1975 who's still getting elected to anything?
Brown did spend most of the '80s and '90s not getting elected to anything, so it's less "still" than "again". But it is kind of insane that there are only four people left in Congress who were there when Brown was first elected Governor.
posted by Etrigan at 10:09 AM on August 4, 2015
Brown did spend most of the '80s and '90s not getting elected to anything, so it's less "still" than "again". But it is kind of insane that there are only four people left in Congress who were there when Brown was first elected Governor.
posted by Etrigan at 10:09 AM on August 4, 2015
"I love Uncle Joe like I've loved few national politicians in my lifetime. . . But he'd be the oldest president on the books if elected, and that does worry me."
I know!! He's almost as old as Bernie Sanders, who looks like he's going to go from red and puffy when giving speeches to blue and comatose, sometime before finishes the campaign season.
Sanders and Biden both have average life expectancies that are well short of two terms. That's not a good thing.
posted by markkraft at 2:19 AM on August 5, 2015
I know!! He's almost as old as Bernie Sanders, who looks like he's going to go from red and puffy when giving speeches to blue and comatose, sometime before finishes the campaign season.
Sanders and Biden both have average life expectancies that are well short of two terms. That's not a good thing.
posted by markkraft at 2:19 AM on August 5, 2015
Media fans speculation over possible Biden presidential bid
None of these stories point to a single substantive issue separating Biden and Hillary Clinton. Both are long-standing and trusted servants of America’s financial elite, advocates of militarism abroad and austerity within the US. Biden positioned himself to the right of Clinton in his brief campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008, but he may well present himself as to her “left” in 2016, a fact that only underscores the miniscule and largely media-created character of such differences in American bourgeois politics.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:03 AM on August 5, 2015
Why I’m Not Ridin’ With Biden
Several weeks before Maureen Dowd was feeding us dialogue from Beau Biden’s deathbed, the chief promoter of a Joe Biden presidential candidacy was a fellow named Dick Harpootlian, the former chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party. Here, for example, is a U.S. News piece from back in June, when Harpootlian was acting as a one-man p.r. machine for Biden. “I think he was seriously considering it, but he was seriously distracted by Beau being in Walter Reed,” Harpootlian is quoted as saying in that article. “I haven’t heard anything to convince me to say that it wasn't still something he was thinking about.”posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:39 AM on August 5, 2015
Is Harpootlian driven by some quasi-mythic faith in la forza del Joe’s destino? Maybe. But the record sure appears to reflect that he is also driven by an intense dislike of the Clintons.
« Older "You cannot change fate. However, you can rise to... | "working with words is a kind of love, it's like... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:07 AM on August 3, 2015