"You're so sadly neglected And often ignored A poor second to Belgium"
August 9, 2015 8:21 PM Subscribe
"Welcome to the nerve-wracking reality of being Finland. To a casual visitor, it seems like yet another Western European country, a placid paradise with its abundance of bicycles, its obsession with its own mid-twentieth-century design, and stores that close punctually at six in the evening. The Finns feel otherwise. When they go to neighboring Sweden, they say they are “going to Europe.” As it happens, neither country is a member of NATO, but only Finland has a long land border with Russia—and a living memory of having been invaded by the Soviet Union."
Sofi Oksanen, A Lion In A Cage
see also: A Day In the Life
Sofi Oksanen, A Lion In A Cage
see also: A Day In the Life
In 1990 I attended the World Science Fiction Convention when it was held in The Hague.
One night a group of Finns held a party for anyone who cared to show up, and it was a blast. Those guys really know how to party. This was during the period when the USSR was breaking up, so memories of the Cold War were still very fresh, and I spent some time talking to them about it.
One thing that was interesting was that Finland didn't have the kind of trade barriers with the USSR that the US and the rest of Europe did. And it turned out that Finland had a pretty thriving industry building PC's to sell into the USSR. But, they informed me with big grins, when they wanted PCs for themselves they bought from the US because the Finnish PCs that were being sold to the USSR were crap...
Yeah, being between NATO and the USSR could have been pretty nerve-wracking. But living for most of my life with the threat of nuclear annihilation could have been nerve-wracking. You don't think about it most of the time because there isn't anything you can do about it. I got the impression that for the Finns it was like that too.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:06 PM on August 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
One night a group of Finns held a party for anyone who cared to show up, and it was a blast. Those guys really know how to party. This was during the period when the USSR was breaking up, so memories of the Cold War were still very fresh, and I spent some time talking to them about it.
One thing that was interesting was that Finland didn't have the kind of trade barriers with the USSR that the US and the rest of Europe did. And it turned out that Finland had a pretty thriving industry building PC's to sell into the USSR. But, they informed me with big grins, when they wanted PCs for themselves they bought from the US because the Finnish PCs that were being sold to the USSR were crap...
Yeah, being between NATO and the USSR could have been pretty nerve-wracking. But living for most of my life with the threat of nuclear annihilation could have been nerve-wracking. You don't think about it most of the time because there isn't anything you can do about it. I got the impression that for the Finns it was like that too.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:06 PM on August 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
My family hosted a Finnish exchange student in the 80s. Great guy. Super rich--his father was the MD of a shipping concern and had been a high-level diplomat to the U.S.
This super-rich, government-connected guy went into the Navy for his national service instead of some cushy civilian post. Finland, you see, is one of the few nations left with universal male conscription. That's how hardcore Finland is. They're expecting to fight a land war at any time.
Just look at their coat of arms. The lion faces Sweden, and the sword it's standing on is a Russian saber. It was like that long before NATO or Lenin--before Marx, even.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:23 PM on August 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
This super-rich, government-connected guy went into the Navy for his national service instead of some cushy civilian post. Finland, you see, is one of the few nations left with universal male conscription. That's how hardcore Finland is. They're expecting to fight a land war at any time.
Just look at their coat of arms. The lion faces Sweden, and the sword it's standing on is a Russian saber. It was like that long before NATO or Lenin--before Marx, even.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:23 PM on August 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
If I recall, being a battleground between Sweden and Russia sucked too.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:56 PM on August 9, 2015
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:56 PM on August 9, 2015
Rightly do they fear. Finland was the only part of the Tsar's empire to not become reconquered by Stalin. And they don't have a Mannerheim these days. It's likely that Finland would be Russian today were it not for Operation Barbarossa- and that is a very faint silver lining upon the darkest of all clouds.
Universal conscription and training may help, but the demographics are against them. Russia could own Finland any time it wants to, just like the Baltic states. I'm not saying that as a pro-Russian, I'm just being realistic about the balance of power.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 10:17 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Universal conscription and training may help, but the demographics are against them. Russia could own Finland any time it wants to, just like the Baltic states. I'm not saying that as a pro-Russian, I'm just being realistic about the balance of power.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 10:17 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I"m waiting for the Russian apologists who always show up n the Ukraine threads to pop in and point out that the Finland Border is less than 200 kilometers from St. Petersburg. And wouldn't it be better for everyone's security if the border was say, 300 kilometers west?
posted by happyroach at 10:40 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by happyroach at 10:40 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
"You're so sadly neglected And often ignored A poor second to Belgium" ... when going abroad.
posted by philip-random at 10:40 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 10:40 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
In April, the defense ministers of Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland issued a rare joint statement, in which they called for greater military preparedness because “the Russian military are acting in a challenging way along our borders.”
In their joint statement, the Nordic governments expressed their solidarity and threatened if provoked by continued Russian aggression to issue even more harshly worded condemnations in the future. Despite animated support from the Finnish defense minister, who once nodded approval, the ad hoc council stopped short of threatening the use of UPPER CASE against the Russians.
posted by three blind mice at 10:51 PM on August 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
In their joint statement, the Nordic governments expressed their solidarity and threatened if provoked by continued Russian aggression to issue even more harshly worded condemnations in the future. Despite animated support from the Finnish defense minister, who once nodded approval, the ad hoc council stopped short of threatening the use of UPPER CASE against the Russians.
posted by three blind mice at 10:51 PM on August 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
only Finland has a long land border with Russia—and a living memory of having been invaded by the Soviet Union.
Finnish memory runs even deeper than that. My great-great-grandfather fought with the Reds in the Finnish Civil War, and died in a prison camp in 1918. Several years ago The Finnish Labour Museum Werstas commissioned a survey of the country's memorials to Red soldiers and published photos on the website. After receiving complaints, they blurred out the names—including my ancestor's. This is the memorial erected in 1947 near the church in his parish.
posted by Knappster at 11:13 PM on August 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Finnish memory runs even deeper than that. My great-great-grandfather fought with the Reds in the Finnish Civil War, and died in a prison camp in 1918. Several years ago The Finnish Labour Museum Werstas commissioned a survey of the country's memorials to Red soldiers and published photos on the website. After receiving complaints, they blurred out the names—including my ancestor's. This is the memorial erected in 1947 near the church in his parish.
posted by Knappster at 11:13 PM on August 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
The rhetoric about Finland having to choose a side because they cannot safely remain unaligned sounded overblown to me, until I got to the part in the article where the Russian propaganda was taking Backman's side and how they legitimately thought "Greater Russia" might include Finland.
I knew enough of Polish history to understand why they wanted to be a part of NATO as soon as possible, and I knew about the Winter War, but I didn't realize how closely Finland was trying to thread the needle.
Interesting nerve-wracking stuff.
I guess they can't all be Switzerland, with its mountains and hardened infrastructure, and near-impossibility to successfully invade.
As usual, I feel bad for Ukraine.
posted by Strudel at 11:59 PM on August 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I knew enough of Polish history to understand why they wanted to be a part of NATO as soon as possible, and I knew about the Winter War, but I didn't realize how closely Finland was trying to thread the needle.
Interesting nerve-wracking stuff.
I guess they can't all be Switzerland, with its mountains and hardened infrastructure, and near-impossibility to successfully invade.
As usual, I feel bad for Ukraine.
posted by Strudel at 11:59 PM on August 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Ukraine, Taiwan, Peru, Algeria-lots of countries have active conscription. [link]
posted by Ideefixe at 12:31 AM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 12:31 AM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
During the Russo-Finnish war (AKA the "Winter War"), part of the reason that the Red Army's attempt to invade Finland was such a fiasco was that the Swedes had broken the Russian codes and were feeding decodes of their messages to the Finnish government. Since the Finns knew in real time what the Red Army was going to do, it was much easier to counter it. That's not the whole reason the Finns survived that war but it helped a hell of a lot.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 1:05 AM on August 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 1:05 AM on August 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I can't speak to the other countries you list, but Denmark doesn't have universal male conscription - it has a lottery system where some proportion of people registered as male an turning 18 in a given year are mandated to do national service.
posted by Dysk at 1:05 AM on August 10, 2015
posted by Dysk at 1:05 AM on August 10, 2015
I shall certainly be using the maxim "You need colour in your vomit" as often as possible.
I may be naïve, but I don't believe Russia would invade an EU country.
posted by Major Tom at 1:20 AM on August 10, 2015
I may be naïve, but I don't believe Russia would invade an EU country.
posted by Major Tom at 1:20 AM on August 10, 2015
infinitewindow: "Just look at their coat of arms."Yeah, about that …
posted by brokkr at 2:25 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Of course the UK also refers to travel to Sweden as "going to Europe", but with kind of an opposite perspective on the matter.
I give Britons the same crap for talking about "Europe" as though it were someplace else that I used to reserve for Canadians talking about America as though they weren't on that continent. For pity's sake, Brazil is American, too!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:42 AM on August 10, 2015
I give Britons the same crap for talking about "Europe" as though it were someplace else that I used to reserve for Canadians talking about America as though they weren't on that continent. For pity's sake, Brazil is American, too!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:42 AM on August 10, 2015
Shh, we're trying to get the yanks to forget that they have neighbors.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:45 AM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:45 AM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Derail, but: Ethnologically and culturally speaking, the UK was and is quite different from mainland Europe throughout the last handful of centuries or so. Different customs, different law system, different measures.
Since we're all speaking your language you don't notice the differences that much unless you go looking. But they're there.
posted by brokkr at 2:46 AM on August 10, 2015
Since we're all speaking your language you don't notice the differences that much unless you go looking. But they're there.
posted by brokkr at 2:46 AM on August 10, 2015
I think if you spend any time in Helsinki, Berlin, The Hague, Rome and Lisbon, you'll find plenty of cultural differences across mainland Europe too. Even the differences between the Nordics are pretty significant, given their common histories. Norway and Sweden perhaps not so much, but the Finns are every bit their own people as much as the Brits.
There are generational changes, too. I know a few Swedes of my generation very well (including a woman whose mother came over as part of the sotalapset - a complex story in its own right), but it's always been a very different sort of relationship to those Finns ditto I've been in close contact with. That's not what I see in the generation below me, which is probably a function of Finland joining the EU and the industrial and cultural effects of digital.
posted by Devonian at 3:44 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are generational changes, too. I know a few Swedes of my generation very well (including a woman whose mother came over as part of the sotalapset - a complex story in its own right), but it's always been a very different sort of relationship to those Finns ditto I've been in close contact with. That's not what I see in the generation below me, which is probably a function of Finland joining the EU and the industrial and cultural effects of digital.
posted by Devonian at 3:44 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, of course there are cultural differences, but there were also common traditions in Europe back before industrialization, many of which were notably absent from the British Isles. Stuff like whether families worked together vs gender-segregated, how communal baking was organised, that sort of thing. It's my wife's area of specialization, not mine, so I don't have any examples handy but it always struck me as very interesting. And of course the Napoleonic split (both legally and metrically) and British insistence on driving on the wrong side of the road* does set UK society apart in a way you don't find anywhere else in Europe. (See also: residential exterior plumbing.)
*) Finland, having inherited traffic laws from Sweden and contrary to the rest of Russia, drove on the left until 1858, when the Czar put a stop to that practice. Sweden itself didn't switch over to the right until 1967.
posted by brokkr at 4:44 AM on August 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
*) Finland, having inherited traffic laws from Sweden and contrary to the rest of Russia, drove on the left until 1858, when the Czar put a stop to that practice. Sweden itself didn't switch over to the right until 1967.
posted by brokkr at 4:44 AM on August 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, the Irish also drive on the proper side of the road, are in Europe and aren't part of the UK. The British Isles, now, although the phrase is a little loaded.
I do like the story about Sweden switching from left to right. Being Swedish, it was obviously the rational thing to do to have the switch-over happen at the dead of night, when nobody would be on the road and disruption would be minimised. And, being Swedish, it was obviously the right thing to do to be driving at that precise moment, so you had all the fun of actually doing the transition. So for that night, the entire country was out in their cars...
posted by Devonian at 5:01 AM on August 10, 2015 [15 favorites]
I do like the story about Sweden switching from left to right. Being Swedish, it was obviously the rational thing to do to have the switch-over happen at the dead of night, when nobody would be on the road and disruption would be minimised. And, being Swedish, it was obviously the right thing to do to be driving at that precise moment, so you had all the fun of actually doing the transition. So for that night, the entire country was out in their cars...
posted by Devonian at 5:01 AM on August 10, 2015 [15 favorites]
Of course the UK also refers to travel to Sweden as "going to Europe"
Funny enough, the US also refers to travel to Canada as going to Europe.
Joke!
posted by eriko at 5:35 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Funny enough, the US also refers to travel to Canada as going to Europe.
Joke!
posted by eriko at 5:35 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Since the Finns knew in real time what the Red Army was going to do, it was much easier to counter it. That's not the whole reason the Finns survived that war but it helped a hell of a lot.
Also, Stalin had purged his officer corps, so the competent officers with experience in from Russia's previous conflicts (the Japanese-Russian war, the first World War on the Eastern Front, etc.) were all dead and replaced by inexperienced political appointees. Poor leadership hampered the Russians.
Additionally - the Russian troops were poorly equipped for winter fighting. The Finns were dressed for the climate, at home, and considered it important to use white camouflage. Fancy that.
This was a lesson that would serve the Russians well when Germany launched Operation Barbarossa.
They also knew they couldn't defend themselves head-to-head, and so used hit-and-run attacks, decoys that made gun emplacements look larger and better equipped than they were, improvised weapons like Molotov cocktails, which would take their name from this war, etc.
A few snipers on skis could really ruin the day for a heavy, slow moving column of Russian equipment. A willingness to engage in a scorched earth policy as part of strategic retreats by the Finns helped, too.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:05 AM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, Stalin had purged his officer corps, so the competent officers with experience in from Russia's previous conflicts (the Japanese-Russian war, the first World War on the Eastern Front, etc.) were all dead and replaced by inexperienced political appointees. Poor leadership hampered the Russians.
Additionally - the Russian troops were poorly equipped for winter fighting. The Finns were dressed for the climate, at home, and considered it important to use white camouflage. Fancy that.
This was a lesson that would serve the Russians well when Germany launched Operation Barbarossa.
They also knew they couldn't defend themselves head-to-head, and so used hit-and-run attacks, decoys that made gun emplacements look larger and better equipped than they were, improvised weapons like Molotov cocktails, which would take their name from this war, etc.
A few snipers on skis could really ruin the day for a heavy, slow moving column of Russian equipment. A willingness to engage in a scorched earth policy as part of strategic retreats by the Finns helped, too.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:05 AM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
improvised weapons like Molotov cocktails
Improvised and improvised... "Molotov cocktails were eventually mass-produced by the Alko corporation [the Finnish alcohol monopoly] at its Rajamäki distillery, bundled with matches to light them. Production totalled 450,000 during the Winter War. The original recipe of the Molotov cocktail was a mixture of ethanol, tar and gasoline in a 750 millilitres (0.79 US qt) bottle. "
posted by effbot at 8:38 AM on August 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Improvised and improvised... "Molotov cocktails were eventually mass-produced by the Alko corporation [the Finnish alcohol monopoly] at its Rajamäki distillery, bundled with matches to light them. Production totalled 450,000 during the Winter War. The original recipe of the Molotov cocktail was a mixture of ethanol, tar and gasoline in a 750 millilitres (0.79 US qt) bottle. "
posted by effbot at 8:38 AM on August 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just look at their coat of arms. The lion faces Sweden, and the sword it's standing on is a Russian saber. It was like that long before NATO or Lenin--before Marx, even.
From long before the region was split up into today's Sweden and Finland, even. The sword/scimitar motif refers back to hundreds of years of disputes over the easternmost border between Sweden and medieval Russian states, and was first seen on the coat of arms for the province of Karelia. It was then combined with the house of Bjelbo's coat of arms (aka House of Folkung, supplier of bishops, jarls and kings since 1100) and was first used in its modern form around the time of Gustav I's burial in 1560. The oldest preserved copy is the one on his tomb in the Uppsala cathedral, which was completed in 1583.
posted by effbot at 9:45 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
From long before the region was split up into today's Sweden and Finland, even. The sword/scimitar motif refers back to hundreds of years of disputes over the easternmost border between Sweden and medieval Russian states, and was first seen on the coat of arms for the province of Karelia. It was then combined with the house of Bjelbo's coat of arms (aka House of Folkung, supplier of bishops, jarls and kings since 1100) and was first used in its modern form around the time of Gustav I's burial in 1560. The oldest preserved copy is the one on his tomb in the Uppsala cathedral, which was completed in 1583.
posted by effbot at 9:45 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's Gustav Vasa? I remember his tomb there.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:42 PM on August 10, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 1:42 PM on August 10, 2015
I may be naïve, but I don't believe Russia would invade an EU country.
Not this year. But if someone in Russia's military command thought that they could get away with invading Estonia in the foreseeable future, they would probably really like to try.
So in the mean time: territorial incursions like flying over airspace, subs in coastal waters, propaganda campaigns, cyber-attacks, supporting pro-Russian groups, all of that crypto-war stuff...
posted by ovvl at 3:50 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not this year. But if someone in Russia's military command thought that they could get away with invading Estonia in the foreseeable future, they would probably really like to try.
So in the mean time: territorial incursions like flying over airspace, subs in coastal waters, propaganda campaigns, cyber-attacks, supporting pro-Russian groups, all of that crypto-war stuff...
posted by ovvl at 3:50 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
One of the things that has worried me since the breakup of the USSR has been Kaliningrad. It's Russian territory but there's no land connection between it and the rest of Russia, after Latvia, Lithuania, and Belarus became independent.
I'm afraid some Russian hot head is going to start making noises about needing all Russian territory to be contiguous, and start considering reconquering Latvia and Lithuania.
The reason I'm worried about that is because it's happened before. In the 1930's that area was known as Königsberg (AKA "East Prussia") and it was German territory which wasn't connected to the rest of Germany. The area in between had been German territory (or Prussian) since Frederick the Great, but was given to Poland in the Treaty of Versailles so that Poland had a connection to the sea. Part of the ostensible reason for Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939 was to reconnect Königsberg to the rest of Germany by land, and to take back land which most Germans considered to be German territory which had been stolen from them.
It's happened before and it could happen again. The Baltic nations had been part of the Russian empire before the USSR and were also part of the USSR, and only became independent 25 years ago, and Russian nationalists might use that history for some rabble rousing.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:49 PM on August 11, 2015
I'm afraid some Russian hot head is going to start making noises about needing all Russian territory to be contiguous, and start considering reconquering Latvia and Lithuania.
The reason I'm worried about that is because it's happened before. In the 1930's that area was known as Königsberg (AKA "East Prussia") and it was German territory which wasn't connected to the rest of Germany. The area in between had been German territory (or Prussian) since Frederick the Great, but was given to Poland in the Treaty of Versailles so that Poland had a connection to the sea. Part of the ostensible reason for Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939 was to reconnect Königsberg to the rest of Germany by land, and to take back land which most Germans considered to be German territory which had been stolen from them.
It's happened before and it could happen again. The Baltic nations had been part of the Russian empire before the USSR and were also part of the USSR, and only became independent 25 years ago, and Russian nationalists might use that history for some rabble rousing.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:49 PM on August 11, 2015
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posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:03 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]