LEGO kits vs LEGO tiny pieces + imagination
August 19, 2015 7:53 AM Subscribe
The LEGO sets of our youth promote creativity better than the kits of our kids' The take-away (for me) was that people like kits, because worrying about building something from scratch is hard, but that reliance on kits decreases creativity, not only around the original topic but also across other activities.
I actually rather like building kits from instructions - it's relaxing and you pick up new techniques.
The kids, on the other hand, have no time for that nonsense and are all about building new stuff or launching into creative play, even before I'd finished the damn thing.
Which I'm sure was the case with me back when I was a kid and kits and instructions totally existed.
posted by Artw at 8:04 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
The kids, on the other hand, have no time for that nonsense and are all about building new stuff or launching into creative play, even before I'd finished the damn thing.
Which I'm sure was the case with me back when I was a kid and kits and instructions totally existed.
posted by Artw at 8:04 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
My kid was into building these elaborate Lego kits for a while. Basically, following the instructions. But once they were finished, that was it. There's no incentive to take them apart again and create something from imagination.
posted by monospace at 8:07 AM on August 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by monospace at 8:07 AM on August 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
As a kid I would always build the kits exactly as instructed. Then over the course of time they would all get deconstructed and added into the giant pile of legos that I did free-building with. I would often incorporate designs and techniques from these kits in my own free-builds.
I saved all of the instruction books. A few times I tried to go back and rebuild a kit I really liked, but the task of going through the massive bin that was my lego collection to find the exact right piece always put the stop to that.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if 60% of my time playing with legos was searching for that one piece I needed that I knew I had.
posted by mayonnaises at 8:10 AM on August 19, 2015 [26 favorites]
I saved all of the instruction books. A few times I tried to go back and rebuild a kit I really liked, but the task of going through the massive bin that was my lego collection to find the exact right piece always put the stop to that.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if 60% of my time playing with legos was searching for that one piece I needed that I knew I had.
posted by mayonnaises at 8:10 AM on August 19, 2015 [26 favorites]
I would like to comment on my own positive experience with open-ended block play, but I know that there is a rabid Kit Defense Association ready to pounce on any such utterance.
posted by fairmettle at 8:12 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by fairmettle at 8:12 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hmm, I'm torn. I'm young enough that I got the kits rather than blocks. I loved the kits because they had so many nonstandard pieces. I would follow the instructions the first time, but I definitely also mixed and matched and free built and combined with other sets. You get a pirate kit and it's full of stylized legos that you can use to build a (not by the directions) castle that looks way cooler than one that you would build out of the blocky multicolored basic pieces.
As they said, I can see the argument that they're making that there's inherently less creativity in a sense because some of the pieces you're using pieces are premade for a purpose. But it's also fun to have so many different pieces to choose from--you can put a palm tree with a pirate skull on top of a ninja castle set in a shady Robin Hood glen and use your Amazon temple jewels to decorate your spaceship.
posted by geegollygosh at 8:14 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
As they said, I can see the argument that they're making that there's inherently less creativity in a sense because some of the pieces you're using pieces are premade for a purpose. But it's also fun to have so many different pieces to choose from--you can put a palm tree with a pirate skull on top of a ninja castle set in a shady Robin Hood glen and use your Amazon temple jewels to decorate your spaceship.
posted by geegollygosh at 8:14 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I grew up building LEGO kits, then taking them apart and building new things with them. I loved the Star Wars kits; I was and still am a huge Star Wars fan, and building an X-Wing and flying it around the house was tremendous fun, but it always ended up being just as much fun to take it apart and build my own new things. Building from the kits didn't have any noticeable impact on my creativity. And I'm always, always skeptical of anybody whose argument boils down to "It was better in the past, but these kids nowadays just don't measure up."
posted by protocoach at 8:17 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by protocoach at 8:17 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm young enough that I got the kits rather than blocks.
The kits have been popular for 40 or 50 years now.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:21 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
The kits have been popular for 40 or 50 years now.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:21 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
On one hand I kind of hate these (too complicated for little kids, super expensive) kits . . .
On the other hand, OMFG yes.
posted by The Bellman at 8:23 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, OMFG yes.
posted by The Bellman at 8:23 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was in Toys R Us the other day and noticed they had a whole section of the Lego area for the Lego Classic theme, which is basically just a box of bricks.
Also, they have the whole Creator theme, which has instructions for three models for each set, which encourages kids to tear them apart. And the pieces tend to be more generic.
posted by smackfu at 8:25 AM on August 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
Also, they have the whole Creator theme, which has instructions for three models for each set, which encourages kids to tear them apart. And the pieces tend to be more generic.
posted by smackfu at 8:25 AM on August 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
* makes rubber-band belt-drive systems with wheel bricks *
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:32 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:32 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Lego sets of your youth were most likely... kits. This idea that Lego was 2x4 blocks up until the Star Wars sets came out is bullshit. Catalogs from the 1960s have kits in them. See for yourself. Space and town sets from the 1970s had tons of specialize pieces.
Also, no matter how specialized the pieces are, people find plenty of ways to create with them.
posted by bondcliff at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2015 [21 favorites]
Also, no matter how specialized the pieces are, people find plenty of ways to create with them.
posted by bondcliff at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2015 [21 favorites]
This isn't my field, but I'm more than a little skeptical of studies that attempt to quantify creativity and draw conclusions from that. I've read a little about the Torrance creativity test, which is mentioned here, and I gather it's very sensitive to experimenter bias. Trying to get a definitive, lab-driven result that proves a lack of creativity seems... well, odd.
If you can't listen to the piece, the gist it is that undergraduate students were given LEGOs to play with, either a kit or just a bunch of blocks. Then they were given (among other tests) paper with a squiggle on it, and told to add to it and title it however they wanted. 48 judges evaluated the drawings to assess how creative they were. The finding was that the drawings made by people who used the kits were "less elaborate, less abstract, and less original."
Can anyone weigh in on the methodology here? I can see how this study appears to show a correlation between using LEGO kits and making less abstract drawings, but is it an objective interpretation to say that this shows they weren't thinking as creatively? I mean, within the scope of these tests, is there any reason to be skeptical, or am I looking at this the wrong way?
posted by teponaztli at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you can't listen to the piece, the gist it is that undergraduate students were given LEGOs to play with, either a kit or just a bunch of blocks. Then they were given (among other tests) paper with a squiggle on it, and told to add to it and title it however they wanted. 48 judges evaluated the drawings to assess how creative they were. The finding was that the drawings made by people who used the kits were "less elaborate, less abstract, and less original."
Can anyone weigh in on the methodology here? I can see how this study appears to show a correlation between using LEGO kits and making less abstract drawings, but is it an objective interpretation to say that this shows they weren't thinking as creatively? I mean, within the scope of these tests, is there any reason to be skeptical, or am I looking at this the wrong way?
posted by teponaztli at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, I'd take some issue with this: (too complicated for little kids, super expensive). The second part is somewhat true - the kits are expensive, although I would say that if you could calculate the cost per hour of entertainment, they look like much more of a bargain. The first part is mostly false though When I've worked with kids, I've found that LEGO consistently overrates the age necessary to build their kits. Kids are shockingly capable when they want to be. I mean, you're not going to see three year olds putting together that Helicarrier, but a motivated fourth grader could definitely handle that project. I've seen young kids put together massive, elaborate LEGO projects that are easily on that scale.
posted by protocoach at 8:37 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by protocoach at 8:37 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Did people forget about the LEGO Movie already? You need to have a balance of both to be a great builder. The instructions aren't only about following instructions. They also provide new techniques and ideas in putting bricks and pieces together that can be applied when free building. This whole kits vs pile is a false dichotomy.
posted by FJT at 8:38 AM on August 19, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by FJT at 8:38 AM on August 19, 2015 [26 favorites]
My sons love Lego, and it's been interesting to watch their approach to it.
My oldest (who also has a few learning disabilities) builds according to the instructions. Then disassembles. Then reassembles. Repeat a few times. Then new configurations and new ideas start to happen. Over time, this has led to some missing pieces and incomplete sets, but also some strange and interesting creations out of the general pile of Lego that has evolved. Just in the past couple of months, he's started to build some things and keep them together - for example, his grandmother got him a wonderful Lego kit of a Naboo starfighter for having a good year in school. He put that together and it has been intact and on his shelf for the summer - he plays with it and breaks it down a bit, and then rebuilds and puts it back before complete dis-assembly occurs. And I noticed last night that he's gone through all the Lego and put back together two smaller kits, that are now also on display. At the same time, there were still several other random creations in progress in his room.
My youngest enjoys Lego, but has always been about getting the set built to the instructions and then keeping it that way - which has caused no small amount of friction with his older brother, who wants to (a) help put it together (i.e., take it to his room and build it himself) and (b) then considers it part of his larger collection, whereupon they get cannibalized and used in new creations. My youngest has become "ok" with that, provided that certain sets are considered off limits - mostly his Batman stuff, which is pretty much always assembled and kept in his room.
So maybe there's some personality differences and things going on in how we all approach Lego and other forms of play/re-creation/creativity. I wouldn't say my kids are all that different in terms of creative potential, just that it is expressed differently - my oldest enjoys Lego and other "building" toys; my youngest is more inclined to music and dance and crafts - and both of them engage in imaginative play with the Lego (kit or random construction) once they've built it.
And when I was a kid, we had both kits and random Lego - the kits would get put together and enjoyed, and then broken down into the general pile...and after time, we might fish all the bits out again and rebuild the kits.
I guess, in summary, what I'm trying to say is that it's hard to do play wrong.
posted by nubs at 8:44 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
My oldest (who also has a few learning disabilities) builds according to the instructions. Then disassembles. Then reassembles. Repeat a few times. Then new configurations and new ideas start to happen. Over time, this has led to some missing pieces and incomplete sets, but also some strange and interesting creations out of the general pile of Lego that has evolved. Just in the past couple of months, he's started to build some things and keep them together - for example, his grandmother got him a wonderful Lego kit of a Naboo starfighter for having a good year in school. He put that together and it has been intact and on his shelf for the summer - he plays with it and breaks it down a bit, and then rebuilds and puts it back before complete dis-assembly occurs. And I noticed last night that he's gone through all the Lego and put back together two smaller kits, that are now also on display. At the same time, there were still several other random creations in progress in his room.
My youngest enjoys Lego, but has always been about getting the set built to the instructions and then keeping it that way - which has caused no small amount of friction with his older brother, who wants to (a) help put it together (i.e., take it to his room and build it himself) and (b) then considers it part of his larger collection, whereupon they get cannibalized and used in new creations. My youngest has become "ok" with that, provided that certain sets are considered off limits - mostly his Batman stuff, which is pretty much always assembled and kept in his room.
So maybe there's some personality differences and things going on in how we all approach Lego and other forms of play/re-creation/creativity. I wouldn't say my kids are all that different in terms of creative potential, just that it is expressed differently - my oldest enjoys Lego and other "building" toys; my youngest is more inclined to music and dance and crafts - and both of them engage in imaginative play with the Lego (kit or random construction) once they've built it.
And when I was a kid, we had both kits and random Lego - the kits would get put together and enjoyed, and then broken down into the general pile...and after time, we might fish all the bits out again and rebuild the kits.
I guess, in summary, what I'm trying to say is that it's hard to do play wrong.
posted by nubs at 8:44 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
I always liked the basic blocks and hated things like trees or little lights or whatever which were merely decorative. Creating things from scratch was always my bag - especially vehicles, which I would then pit against my best friend's vehicle in a smashing contest to determine which had the most structural integrity.
Then again, I never liked entering in programs from RUN magazine or putting together models, either.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:44 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Then again, I never liked entering in programs from RUN magazine or putting together models, either.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:44 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, they have the whole Creator theme, which has instructions for three models for each set, which encourages kids to tear them apart. And the pieces tend to be more generic.
As a person with kit-builder tendencies, the hardest part of the Creator series is deciding which of the three to build first. Or should I just buy three of them, one for each build?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:45 AM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
As a person with kit-builder tendencies, the hardest part of the Creator series is deciding which of the three to build first. Or should I just buy three of them, one for each build?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:45 AM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
I remember the kits when I was a kid (late 80's early 90's) would always have instructions for the build, but the box would always have a couple of different space ships (for example) on the back that you could build with the same bricks. I presume it was to show that you could follow the instructions or go hog wild and to reinforce that there was no correct way to play.
I've often complained about how the kits I had as a kid seemed way more complex and fun to play with than the ones kids get now, but my girlfriend just bought me Boba Fett's spaceship as a birthday present and it took me 3 days to build it!
posted by Silentgoldfish at 8:46 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've often complained about how the kits I had as a kid seemed way more complex and fun to play with than the ones kids get now, but my girlfriend just bought me Boba Fett's spaceship as a birthday present and it took me 3 days to build it!
posted by Silentgoldfish at 8:46 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
When my kid gets Legos, she asks me to build according to the instructions, then she plays with it until it breaks, then puts the pieces in her giant Lego bin and builds whatever she wants. I think most small kids like the creative building. That $350 Helicarrier is for the parents.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:46 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:46 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
On listening to the piece a second time, it sounds more like you can be primed for creativity, or primed to streamline a process not, depending on what you were doing. If following a kit, your next task was less likely to be accomplished in a creative way, which on contemplation might be preferable for, say, bookkeeping or calculating engineering loads, while some free play could be used as a warm-up for design experiments or graphic ideas.
Also please I absolutely did not mean to say it was better long ago, I just remember the ads for LEGO when I was a child (1965-'73) and it was more gender neutral and I miss that, but yeah, I would also have made an X-Wing, even in grad school had I had the finances!
posted by old gray mare at 8:46 AM on August 19, 2015
Also please I absolutely did not mean to say it was better long ago, I just remember the ads for LEGO when I was a child (1965-'73) and it was more gender neutral and I miss that, but yeah, I would also have made an X-Wing, even in grad school had I had the finances!
posted by old gray mare at 8:46 AM on August 19, 2015
Did people forget about the LEGO Movie already? You need to have a balance of both to be a great builder. The instructions aren't only about following instructions. They also provide new techniques and ideas in putting bricks and pieces together that can be applied when free building. This whole kits vs pile is a false dichotomy.
Yeah, the ability to interpret complex instructions is an unappreciated life skill in itself, and Lego teaches it hand-in-hand with more creative skills like modification and repurposing.
posted by Eleven at 8:48 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, the ability to interpret complex instructions is an unappreciated life skill in itself, and Lego teaches it hand-in-hand with more creative skills like modification and repurposing.
posted by Eleven at 8:48 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
For what it's worth, I grew up with kits (which aren't exactly new), some of which would stay in their kit form forever, and some of which would be broken apart and used for other things. It sounds like the majority of people did that. But there's another aspect of creativity, even in those kits-that-stay-kits, which is that I think a lot of kids use them as they use other toys. And that can be an extremely creative activity.
I had a little castle-y sort of kit that I never took apart, but it became the basis for this whole story epic I had running in my head. Recurring characters, changing roles, big events (I recently found an embarrassing short story I wrote about the wizard "Mysterio"). That strikes me as a form of creativity, and I have to wonder if someone could look at that and say "well, it would have been more creative if you'd built the castle from scratch." It just makes me wonder, is an open-ended thing an inherently superior form of creativity, or is there something to be said for creativity within certain constraints?
posted by teponaztli at 8:49 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I had a little castle-y sort of kit that I never took apart, but it became the basis for this whole story epic I had running in my head. Recurring characters, changing roles, big events (I recently found an embarrassing short story I wrote about the wizard "Mysterio"). That strikes me as a form of creativity, and I have to wonder if someone could look at that and say "well, it would have been more creative if you'd built the castle from scratch." It just makes me wonder, is an open-ended thing an inherently superior form of creativity, or is there something to be said for creativity within certain constraints?
posted by teponaztli at 8:49 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
That $350 Helicarrier is for the parents.
And there is a point there - my family got me the Tower of Isengard set for Christmas a couple of years ago. I put it together in the evenings over the course of a couple of weeks, and made it clear to the children that it was off-limits - it was my Lego, and once built it is now on display (Of course, when we renovated the room it was in I had to partially break it down and then rebuild it, and now I have a couple of missing pieces and a handful of some of the more decorative pieces that I'm not quite sure where they go anymore). My brother-in-law has several of the larger, more expensive kits that he has bought and built and displays. At the higher price points, I think of Lego as a nice way to do models.
posted by nubs at 8:54 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
And there is a point there - my family got me the Tower of Isengard set for Christmas a couple of years ago. I put it together in the evenings over the course of a couple of weeks, and made it clear to the children that it was off-limits - it was my Lego, and once built it is now on display (Of course, when we renovated the room it was in I had to partially break it down and then rebuild it, and now I have a couple of missing pieces and a handful of some of the more decorative pieces that I'm not quite sure where they go anymore). My brother-in-law has several of the larger, more expensive kits that he has bought and built and displays. At the higher price points, I think of Lego as a nice way to do models.
posted by nubs at 8:54 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Assembled kits are a great way to model the approach of entropy and the eventual heat death of the universe to your 5 year old child.
"So see how the giant Lego Pirate Ship you got for your birthday is slowly crumbling due to play and repeated Hulk attacks? So goes everything. There is nothing we can do about it - eventually everything crumbles and even the most important pieces become lost. It is no use to struggle against the inevitable. We can only accept what we have and enjoy it while it lasts because, in time, even we will be nothing but scattered pieces vacuumed up by the fate of the universe. So play, son. Let the Hulks attack the pirates again, but ask yourself - do they really save anything?"
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:54 AM on August 19, 2015 [21 favorites]
"So see how the giant Lego Pirate Ship you got for your birthday is slowly crumbling due to play and repeated Hulk attacks? So goes everything. There is nothing we can do about it - eventually everything crumbles and even the most important pieces become lost. It is no use to struggle against the inevitable. We can only accept what we have and enjoy it while it lasts because, in time, even we will be nothing but scattered pieces vacuumed up by the fate of the universe. So play, son. Let the Hulks attack the pirates again, but ask yourself - do they really save anything?"
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:54 AM on August 19, 2015 [21 favorites]
I put it together in the evenings over the course of a couple of weeks, and made it clear to the children that it was off-limits - it was my Lego, and once built it is now on display . . .
Oh, hai, President Business?
posted by The Bellman at 8:57 AM on August 19, 2015 [14 favorites]
Oh, hai, President Business?
posted by The Bellman at 8:57 AM on August 19, 2015 [14 favorites]
I put it together in the evenings over the course of a couple of weeks, and made it clear to the children that it was off-limits
Did you not absorb the core message of the Lego movie?
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:58 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Did you not absorb the core message of the Lego movie?
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:58 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Then I was a kid back in the '70s, we got LEGO both as batches of assorted bricks and as wonderful space-themed kits. Even the assorted bricks would come with diagrams showing how to build things, nut when i got the space LEGO I would build it like the picture on the box exactly once, and then it just became another collection of parts.
I wonder if today's kits contain too many specialized parts, but a bunch of the space components found their ways into my other constructions.
posted by Gelatin at 8:58 AM on August 19, 2015
I wonder if today's kits contain too many specialized parts, but a bunch of the space components found their ways into my other constructions.
posted by Gelatin at 8:58 AM on August 19, 2015
Yeah, LEGO is unfortunately all about charging €€€ for branded kits which you can't really make into much else. Oh for the days of the classic yellow Technical LEGO where you just got a box of stuff.
And proper Meccano, too.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 8:59 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
And proper Meccano, too.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 8:59 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, hai, President Business?
For that kit, yes - it was expensive as hell, and I appreciate my family getting together to purchase it for me, and I like the look of it.
Give me a pile of random Lego, and I will happily build it into a Super Monster Death Car parked next to a Quiet Cottage, though.
posted by nubs at 8:59 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
For that kit, yes - it was expensive as hell, and I appreciate my family getting together to purchase it for me, and I like the look of it.
Give me a pile of random Lego, and I will happily build it into a Super Monster Death Car parked next to a Quiet Cottage, though.
posted by nubs at 8:59 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
At first I worried that Lego kits would stymie my kids' creativity, but you know what? They build them, then usually pull them apart a couple days later to build other things. All the Legos eventually end up in the big Lego bins for repurposing. The only kit that has survived mostly intact is the ghostbusters car my eldest built. Plus, kits have lots of weird and cool pieces they can use that don't come int the big box o bricks.
posted by fimbulvetr at 9:02 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fimbulvetr at 9:02 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Star Wars theme was launched in 1999, so we're going to see adults who grew up with it complaining that Lego is now all kits not like when they were a kid soon.
posted by Artw at 9:04 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:04 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Did you not absorb the core message of the Lego movie?
*Sigh* I guess I'm going to have to post the picture of it, complete with Saruman selling hot dogs from his Lego hot dog cart to the Uruk-Hai (which, yes, is part of the set up I have). I am not without fun and whimsy.
posted by nubs at 9:04 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
*Sigh* I guess I'm going to have to post the picture of it, complete with Saruman selling hot dogs from his Lego hot dog cart to the Uruk-Hai (which, yes, is part of the set up I have). I am not without fun and whimsy.
posted by nubs at 9:04 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah I'm not worried, kids always tear apart the kits and rebuild new things. I know I would have sold my sister to own that helicarrier as a child, and I am sure it wouldn't have lasted very long as a helicarrier without getting some extra lasers mounted on it. Oh and a dragon. And more fire. And maybe replace the existing island with something with more spikes. Dangit now I want to go play.
posted by Wretch729 at 9:09 AM on August 19, 2015
posted by Wretch729 at 9:09 AM on August 19, 2015
Metafilter: not without fun and whimsy.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:10 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:10 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Always post pictures.
We had a LEGO Friends house last a month of or so as a functioning dollhouse before succumbing to entropy - that's about the longest anything has lasted.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on August 19, 2015
We had a LEGO Friends house last a month of or so as a functioning dollhouse before succumbing to entropy - that's about the longest anything has lasted.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on August 19, 2015
I recently bought a big batch of Lego from a local teenager who'd outgrown it. Half a dozen of the larger 'City' kits, including a big fire station and a massive cargo plane. Absolute bargain, and in really good (complete) condition.
What made me a little sad was that they'd obviously been perched on a high shelf collecting dust and cat hair for many years. Apparently he'd built the sets and then just put them on indefinite display.
Of course, I had to completely take them apart to clean the bricks before I could give them to my kids, and I doubt they'll ever be assembled back into the original kits.
posted by pipeski at 9:13 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
What made me a little sad was that they'd obviously been perched on a high shelf collecting dust and cat hair for many years. Apparently he'd built the sets and then just put them on indefinite display.
Of course, I had to completely take them apart to clean the bricks before I could give them to my kids, and I doubt they'll ever be assembled back into the original kits.
posted by pipeski at 9:13 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Peter Molyneux compares Minecraft to the old LEGO building block sets and then there's the LEGO Minecraft kits.
posted by plokent at 9:21 AM on August 19, 2015
posted by plokent at 9:21 AM on August 19, 2015
A lot of adults, myself included, treat LEGO sets as model sets that don't require any real skill. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that.
posted by smackfu at 9:21 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 9:21 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
> proper Meccano
By which you mean the metal stuff with the very stabby flat blade screwdriver? I still have mysterious scar tissue on my left index finger that can only be attributed to Meccano wounds from the 1970s.
posted by scruss at 9:27 AM on August 19, 2015
By which you mean the metal stuff with the very stabby flat blade screwdriver? I still have mysterious scar tissue on my left index finger that can only be attributed to Meccano wounds from the 1970s.
posted by scruss at 9:27 AM on August 19, 2015
@scruss
The same. A boxful of silver girders and angle pieces of various types, a million little brass bolts, washers, cogs, rods, a spanner ... heaven.
I mean ... look.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:30 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
The same. A boxful of silver girders and angle pieces of various types, a million little brass bolts, washers, cogs, rods, a spanner ... heaven.
I mean ... look.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:30 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
ROU_Xenophobe:
Anyways. No one ever complained that model airplane kits were going to sap children's creativity, so I don't see the issue with LEGO kits. If your kid is a model builder type, they'll build the kits. If they're a creative type, they'll kit bash or use raw LEGOs. If they're my wife, they'll keep completed Hobbitons and Mars Rovers on their desk.
posted by charred husk at 9:43 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
"I'm young enough that I got the kits rather than blocks.SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP HOW DARE U CALL ME OLD
The kits have been popular for 40 or 50 years now."
Anyways. No one ever complained that model airplane kits were going to sap children's creativity, so I don't see the issue with LEGO kits. If your kid is a model builder type, they'll build the kits. If they're a creative type, they'll kit bash or use raw LEGOs. If they're my wife, they'll keep completed Hobbitons and Mars Rovers on their desk.
posted by charred husk at 9:43 AM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
I found out recently that my sister's Lego system is to keep each kit organized and separate and build and un-build it repeatedly. I have no idea where she found my nephew but I have long suspected from his levels of compliance and neatness that he's not an actual human child, and now I know for sure.
posted by gerstle at 9:47 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by gerstle at 9:47 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah, my kid builds the kits once, then takes them apart and the bricks go in a giant box. (OK, apart from the ninja turtles mutation chamber -- that's still sitting in our living room after a year or so.) I always felt like she was the norm and all the harrumphimg about the kits stifling creativity was overblown.
Not so much?
posted by gaspode at 9:50 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not so much?
posted by gaspode at 9:50 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Every now and then I think about getting a big Lego set and putting it together from the directions. Keep it around until I want the space back, then break it down and put it back in the box and stick it in the closet. Then sell it a few years down the line because those big sets sure do seem to appreciate in value.
Just kind of a slow, meditative process. With no creativity involved. Something to do with my hands while I'm not working on a multi-year solo graphic novel.
I had a bunch of Lego as a kid. I, too, followed the model of "make it from the instructions, admire it for a while, then disassemble it and put it in the Huge Box Of Lego". I have fond memories of repeatedly failing to have quite enough parts to put together some of the things in a book of Cool Things You Could Theoretically Make With Expert Builder Parts. And of making cool space boats.
posted by egypturnash at 9:56 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just kind of a slow, meditative process. With no creativity involved. Something to do with my hands while I'm not working on a multi-year solo graphic novel.
I had a bunch of Lego as a kid. I, too, followed the model of "make it from the instructions, admire it for a while, then disassemble it and put it in the Huge Box Of Lego". I have fond memories of repeatedly failing to have quite enough parts to put together some of the things in a book of Cool Things You Could Theoretically Make With Expert Builder Parts. And of making cool space boats.
posted by egypturnash at 9:56 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's how it works at our house.
Ours too, if by "takes them apart" you mean "enacts furious battles in which they are reduced to rubble and often carried off by giant terriers (not to scale)."
But if I were to somehow end up with that helicarrier or, you know, the Tumbler, or something else that is clearly (I agree) made for adults, I would go totally President Business on it. So don't read my comment as an insult, nubs. I feel you.
posted by The Bellman at 9:58 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ours too, if by "takes them apart" you mean "enacts furious battles in which they are reduced to rubble and often carried off by giant terriers (not to scale)."
But if I were to somehow end up with that helicarrier or, you know, the Tumbler, or something else that is clearly (I agree) made for adults, I would go totally President Business on it. So don't read my comment as an insult, nubs. I feel you.
posted by The Bellman at 9:58 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, if it is forbidden to touch your older brother's Legos and you do anyway and then you break a piece, things will go a lot smoother if it wasn't a kit.
posted by Ashenmote at 10:01 AM on August 19, 2015
posted by Ashenmote at 10:01 AM on August 19, 2015
Lego actually has, or recently had, a series called 'master builder' that would, in the process of making a specific thing, teach the basics of making other, more complex things.
I think Lego gets it.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:07 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think Lego gets it.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:07 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think people doing the math on cost-per-piece show there's not really a price difference between media tie-in and regular LEGO sets.
The biggest fights my brother and I ever had were over specific LEGO computer pieces. Huge fights. Those and years of waiting until a decent hour to dump the entire box of LEGO onto the floor so we could paw through it while watching cartoons. (Evidently parents don't take kindly to waking up to a cascade of ABS plastic at 6am, who knew? We certainly didn't!)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:14 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
The biggest fights my brother and I ever had were over specific LEGO computer pieces. Huge fights. Those and years of waiting until a decent hour to dump the entire box of LEGO onto the floor so we could paw through it while watching cartoons. (Evidently parents don't take kindly to waking up to a cascade of ABS plastic at 6am, who knew? We certainly didn't!)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:14 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ah, the soothing sound and feeling of sifting through hundreds of bricks, with that ever-present background of frustration: where is that damn one I need? It's like half my childhood in the late 70s and early 80s.
On the down side, out cats peed in the pile more than once. No, it's not cat litter you morons.
Today our older daughter (6) builds the complicated kits which just sit there, until her little sister tears them apart. Good times.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:20 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the down side, out cats peed in the pile more than once. No, it's not cat litter you morons.
Today our older daughter (6) builds the complicated kits which just sit there, until her little sister tears them apart. Good times.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:20 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The general rule with siblings is there is only one toy at any time, which must be fought over and all other toys will be ignored. That can totally extend down to the individual brick level.
posted by Artw at 10:21 AM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:21 AM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
When I was a kid, I loved the old blue and grey space lego kits.
The process at my house was usually "build the kit, play with it, younger sibling knocks it off the dresser, UN-mandated cease-fire, pieces get incorporated into general lego bin, build large elaborate spaceship from multiple kits, younger sibling knocks it off the dresser..."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:26 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
The process at my house was usually "build the kit, play with it, younger sibling knocks it off the dresser, UN-mandated cease-fire, pieces get incorporated into general lego bin, build large elaborate spaceship from multiple kits, younger sibling knocks it off the dresser..."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:26 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
The more kits you have, the bigger pile of lego you have. Trust me, plenty of creative play going on at my house.
posted by Roger Dodger at 10:32 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Roger Dodger at 10:32 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Probably point one of my rebuttal to the current anti-kids thread if I could be bothered writing such a thing would be "Yeah, but you get an excuse to buy Lego!"
Only really kicks in around age 4 and is probably near entirely balanced by the whole LEGO-related-sibling-disputes thing, but still... YOU GET AN EXCUSE TO BUY LEGO.
posted by Artw at 10:40 AM on August 19, 2015
Only really kicks in around age 4 and is probably near entirely balanced by the whole LEGO-related-sibling-disputes thing, but still... YOU GET AN EXCUSE TO BUY LEGO.
posted by Artw at 10:40 AM on August 19, 2015
I'm pretty sure the entire point of being a self-supporting grown-up is that I don't need excuses to buy LEGO.
posted by asperity at 10:49 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by asperity at 10:49 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seconding that there's no dichotomy between kits and free-building; kits provide you an initial framework with which you learn how to put objects together, and free-building lets you improvise with those frameworks.
But more importantly: If you're in NYC, you should go visit The collectivity project on the High Line; it's a huge mass of Legos open to the public to play and build and imagine the process of creating your own city, ironically presented underneath the shadow of the largest private real estate development project in history...
posted by suedehead at 10:53 AM on August 19, 2015
But more importantly: If you're in NYC, you should go visit The collectivity project on the High Line; it's a huge mass of Legos open to the public to play and build and imagine the process of creating your own city, ironically presented underneath the shadow of the largest private real estate development project in history...
posted by suedehead at 10:53 AM on August 19, 2015
My son was into LEGO for a bit, and took my tub of bricks and went to town. These days, though, he's more likely to help me assemble the kits I buy for myself, which then sit on the living room mantel.
(that reminds me... I wonder if the holiday kit for 2015 has been announced yet?)
posted by Lucinda at 11:03 AM on August 19, 2015
(that reminds me... I wonder if the holiday kit for 2015 has been announced yet?)
posted by Lucinda at 11:03 AM on August 19, 2015
...and it's a reformulated version of the Toy Shop from 2010.
posted by Lucinda at 11:10 AM on August 19, 2015
posted by Lucinda at 11:10 AM on August 19, 2015
My kid was into building these elaborate Lego kits for a while. Basically, following the instructions. But once they were finished, that was it. There's no incentive to take them apart again and create something from imagination.
I hear things like this, and my answer is always: It depends on the kid. Our 14yo, The Lego Savant, loves the elaborate kits in part because he admires the way designers use pieces. He loves to see a new building technique. We got him a MOC Kit for his birthday—this Pegasus automaton—and he was fascinated by the gearing, and excited that the designer had used a couple of specific pieces in ways that had never occurred to him, that he can incorporate into his building. But that's how his mind works. He's fascinated by building, by structures, by engineering-type things. He used to always take his sets apart and toss the pieces into the general building pool, but a couple of years ago started keeping some of his more special sets on display. He told me that he can do this because his collection finally got big enough that he didn't need the pieces from the new sets. He builds all the time. He recently made a Bioshock-inspired enclosure for our Apple TV remote out of Lego; it looks very cool and helps solve the lost remote problem endemic to those things.
A lot of adults, myself included, treat LEGO sets as model sets that don't require any real skill. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that.
Lego building instructions are a gold standard. And yet...I've built many sets along with my son over the years, and it's surprisingly easy to get them wrong. Because he is better than me at that kind of thinking and perceiving, sometimes he's had to interpret instructions for me, and they are perfectly clear to him but not to me. Or he's had to look the thing over to spot a mistake I've made, and fix it. Things only seem to require "no skill" to people for whom the specific skill required is trivial.
At the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with treating Lego as a satisfying model-building experience. If kids were building model airplanes, people would say, "What a nice old-fashioned non-screen hobby they're engaging in!" rather than "But doesn't this stifle their incentive and ability to design and build their own airplanes?" Some folks are never going to design their own airplanes, and it's fine for them to have a way to enjoy the building experience. When I was a kid and all we had were rectangular Lego, I could take the little rectangles and build a bigger rectangle out of them. That was the limit of my inspiration. Now, I miss doing sets with my son, who builds on his own these days. I might, at some point, get myself a kit just to enjoy.
It's like how, when I was a kid, I was thrilled to discover blank books. This one in particular, which hit bookstores when I was 9. More than just a plain notebook, a book that explicitly said, "This is for you to write" was inspiring to me. The Lego Savant would not be interested in this. On the other hand, our 11yo, Word Boy, carries a little moleskine with a pen in one of those pen pen holster things. And our 8yo, the Tiny Tornado, is not especially interested in either of those things, but saved up last year to buy himself a unicycle.
The thing is, no tool can invite creativity if it's the wrong tool. It is possible, through discouragement, disparagement, or punishment, to damage a child's creativity. But a Lego building kit isn't the thing that's going to do that. Small-mindedness does it. Too many rules do it. A failure to appreciate what pleases and drives the kid can do it.
This whole endless debate about whether Lego building kits are good or bad for children's creativity strikes me as one of those situations where people invest an incredible amount of energy into fretting, arguing, and judging, despite—or perhaps because of—it being trivial and beside the point. Lego is only one thing that a kid who is into creative building can and will build with; it is only one thing that a kid who likes building models can or will build; it is only one thing that a kid whose inspiration flows in the presence of a blank page, or music, or a physical challenge, will ignore in favor of other stuff.
Expose a kids to a lot of things. Make resources available to them. Let them choose; don't judge their choices. Allow their interests to guide yours. Assume that if they value it, it has value, and let them show you what they value about it. Don't assume that if your kid never takes apart their Lego sets to build something new, that the set is to "blame" or that the set damaged their creativity. Accept that there are many "right" ways to use Lego, or any other tool; honor the enjoyment they get from it; watch for opportunities to support other activities that may be more inspiring for them.
I hereby swear that, from this day forward, I will not re-enter this debate. I have said everything I have to say on the subject, more than once, and I risk becoming tedious.
posted by not that girl at 11:14 AM on August 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
I hear things like this, and my answer is always: It depends on the kid. Our 14yo, The Lego Savant, loves the elaborate kits in part because he admires the way designers use pieces. He loves to see a new building technique. We got him a MOC Kit for his birthday—this Pegasus automaton—and he was fascinated by the gearing, and excited that the designer had used a couple of specific pieces in ways that had never occurred to him, that he can incorporate into his building. But that's how his mind works. He's fascinated by building, by structures, by engineering-type things. He used to always take his sets apart and toss the pieces into the general building pool, but a couple of years ago started keeping some of his more special sets on display. He told me that he can do this because his collection finally got big enough that he didn't need the pieces from the new sets. He builds all the time. He recently made a Bioshock-inspired enclosure for our Apple TV remote out of Lego; it looks very cool and helps solve the lost remote problem endemic to those things.
A lot of adults, myself included, treat LEGO sets as model sets that don't require any real skill. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that.
Lego building instructions are a gold standard. And yet...I've built many sets along with my son over the years, and it's surprisingly easy to get them wrong. Because he is better than me at that kind of thinking and perceiving, sometimes he's had to interpret instructions for me, and they are perfectly clear to him but not to me. Or he's had to look the thing over to spot a mistake I've made, and fix it. Things only seem to require "no skill" to people for whom the specific skill required is trivial.
At the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with treating Lego as a satisfying model-building experience. If kids were building model airplanes, people would say, "What a nice old-fashioned non-screen hobby they're engaging in!" rather than "But doesn't this stifle their incentive and ability to design and build their own airplanes?" Some folks are never going to design their own airplanes, and it's fine for them to have a way to enjoy the building experience. When I was a kid and all we had were rectangular Lego, I could take the little rectangles and build a bigger rectangle out of them. That was the limit of my inspiration. Now, I miss doing sets with my son, who builds on his own these days. I might, at some point, get myself a kit just to enjoy.
It's like how, when I was a kid, I was thrilled to discover blank books. This one in particular, which hit bookstores when I was 9. More than just a plain notebook, a book that explicitly said, "This is for you to write" was inspiring to me. The Lego Savant would not be interested in this. On the other hand, our 11yo, Word Boy, carries a little moleskine with a pen in one of those pen pen holster things. And our 8yo, the Tiny Tornado, is not especially interested in either of those things, but saved up last year to buy himself a unicycle.
The thing is, no tool can invite creativity if it's the wrong tool. It is possible, through discouragement, disparagement, or punishment, to damage a child's creativity. But a Lego building kit isn't the thing that's going to do that. Small-mindedness does it. Too many rules do it. A failure to appreciate what pleases and drives the kid can do it.
This whole endless debate about whether Lego building kits are good or bad for children's creativity strikes me as one of those situations where people invest an incredible amount of energy into fretting, arguing, and judging, despite—or perhaps because of—it being trivial and beside the point. Lego is only one thing that a kid who is into creative building can and will build with; it is only one thing that a kid who likes building models can or will build; it is only one thing that a kid whose inspiration flows in the presence of a blank page, or music, or a physical challenge, will ignore in favor of other stuff.
Expose a kids to a lot of things. Make resources available to them. Let them choose; don't judge their choices. Allow their interests to guide yours. Assume that if they value it, it has value, and let them show you what they value about it. Don't assume that if your kid never takes apart their Lego sets to build something new, that the set is to "blame" or that the set damaged their creativity. Accept that there are many "right" ways to use Lego, or any other tool; honor the enjoyment they get from it; watch for opportunities to support other activities that may be more inspiring for them.
I hereby swear that, from this day forward, I will not re-enter this debate. I have said everything I have to say on the subject, more than once, and I risk becoming tedious.
posted by not that girl at 11:14 AM on August 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
The article promotes a false dilemma: Lego makes non-themed kits, too.
We can eat our cake AND have it!
posted by LooseFilter at 11:16 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
We can eat our cake AND have it!
posted by LooseFilter at 11:16 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The new Chima-esque Castle theme with its steampunk and crap is going to be an abomination though. Grrrr!
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on August 19, 2015
posted by Artw at 11:21 AM on August 19, 2015
The strength of the Lego kits (at least for me) was that it gave me a cool toy, and once I got bored with that particular toy, I could turn it into a completely different cool toy. So I had a rad space ship for a couple of months, and then it turned into a jail for mutants, and then it was a bank that someone was trying to rob, and then it was a cyberpunk dive bar.
I played with Lego blocks religiously from the ages 7 to 13. Then the were kept in some giant tubs for a little over a decade, when I gifted them to another young Lego fanatic, who was thrilled to get them.
There aren't many toys that cover that wide an age range, or that retain their aura of cool with kids that many years apart.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:33 AM on August 19, 2015
I played with Lego blocks religiously from the ages 7 to 13. Then the were kept in some giant tubs for a little over a decade, when I gifted them to another young Lego fanatic, who was thrilled to get them.
There aren't many toys that cover that wide an age range, or that retain their aura of cool with kids that many years apart.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:33 AM on August 19, 2015
I re-posted my comment above at my blog. If you want to see a picture of our Apple TV remote in the enclosure the Lego Savant built, it's included.
posted by not that girl at 11:34 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by not that girl at 11:34 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
My house is like a Lego museum (as in, visitors regularly react to our various knick-knacks with, "Wait, are those Legos too?!" Um, yes. Pretty much all of our knick-knacks are made from plastic bricks, why is this a surprise to you anymore) and my husband and I definitely build Legos together the way other couples might do puzzles, as a relaxing couples activity when our daughter is in bed. We've definitely talked about what we'll do when she's old enough to want to play with our "grown-up Legos".
I definitely agree with the posters above that when you're building the huge 16+ sets, the build process is like a fun conversation with the designer. They don't make special-purpose pieces for the big Creator sets like the modular buildings, so you'll see skis, croissants, knives, and other unlikely pieces used as architectural embellishments. I look forward to new sets from specific designers because I've come to expect genius twists from them. I've called my husband over to come look at an unusual build technique and had him coo appreciatively. But these are toys made for adults. They're priced and marked accordingly. I can't imagine a small child making it through a modular building or Sopwith Camel or Tower of Orthanc on her own. Frankly, I wouldn't have been able to get through one by myself a decade ago. Reading Lego instructions and getting them right is a skill like any other. They have their own conventions and tricks you have to figure out with experience. When I build with other people who don't do it often I'm shocked at how much faster I am at reading the diagrams, finding the pieces, and putting them in the right place. If you think this is a totally brain-dead activity, you're building really easy sets, or you have a lot of practice.
As a kid I actually wasn't aware that Lego kits existed, and thought the elaborate models my friends' older siblings built were things they had designed themselves. And I wondered how they ever managed to do that with the bricks from a generic bucket o' bricks, and decided that probably it was just that they were Lego geniuses, and I wasn't and probably never would be. I think if I'd had some kits as a kid it would have really built my confidence that coming up with these structures was something I could figure out how to do, and helped me pick up patterns to make my creations more robust and more interesting - sort of like when you're learning to draw, the best thing to do is copy. At this point I'm dead sure I could come up with awesome MOCs, but I just don't have the time. Instead I just keep adding features to the big house my daughter and I built to hold all her Duplo animals when she isn't playing with them.
posted by town of cats at 11:43 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I definitely agree with the posters above that when you're building the huge 16+ sets, the build process is like a fun conversation with the designer. They don't make special-purpose pieces for the big Creator sets like the modular buildings, so you'll see skis, croissants, knives, and other unlikely pieces used as architectural embellishments. I look forward to new sets from specific designers because I've come to expect genius twists from them. I've called my husband over to come look at an unusual build technique and had him coo appreciatively. But these are toys made for adults. They're priced and marked accordingly. I can't imagine a small child making it through a modular building or Sopwith Camel or Tower of Orthanc on her own. Frankly, I wouldn't have been able to get through one by myself a decade ago. Reading Lego instructions and getting them right is a skill like any other. They have their own conventions and tricks you have to figure out with experience. When I build with other people who don't do it often I'm shocked at how much faster I am at reading the diagrams, finding the pieces, and putting them in the right place. If you think this is a totally brain-dead activity, you're building really easy sets, or you have a lot of practice.
As a kid I actually wasn't aware that Lego kits existed, and thought the elaborate models my friends' older siblings built were things they had designed themselves. And I wondered how they ever managed to do that with the bricks from a generic bucket o' bricks, and decided that probably it was just that they were Lego geniuses, and I wasn't and probably never would be. I think if I'd had some kits as a kid it would have really built my confidence that coming up with these structures was something I could figure out how to do, and helped me pick up patterns to make my creations more robust and more interesting - sort of like when you're learning to draw, the best thing to do is copy. At this point I'm dead sure I could come up with awesome MOCs, but I just don't have the time. Instead I just keep adding features to the big house my daughter and I built to hold all her Duplo animals when she isn't playing with them.
posted by town of cats at 11:43 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, our 6 year old builds the giant sets with lots of special-purpose pieces with furious speed. The sets stay fully assembled for 1 hour, tops. Then they get torn apart and get endlessly remixed, and we're constantly surprised at how the so-called special-purpose pieces can be adapted and reused in completely different ways.
The kids, and Lego, are alright.
posted by zsazsa at 11:46 AM on August 19, 2015
The kids, and Lego, are alright.
posted by zsazsa at 11:46 AM on August 19, 2015
There are numerous sites out there that, when given the list of kits you have, will tell you what other kits you can build from the pieces you have. That's both with and without color matching - so you'll get things like the lego death star - but in lego friends colors.
What you'll quickly realize, however, is that even if you build a fairly large collection of lego, there's almost always a few specialized pieces that can only be had in certain sets. Kind of evil, but it makes sense for lego. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the insanity of minifigures, or the fact that people will buy/return sets, only to steal the minifigures. There's also been more than a few pieces written about how licensing things like star wars actually resulted in huge positive effects for lego, as a company.
Specialized pieces, disney licensing, and minifigure theft aside, I'm still 100% pro lego for my son. I've found that $20 worth of bins from ikea and idle time on my part spent sorting pieces results in an explosion of creativity from him. IMHO, it's not the kits that stifle creativity - it's the digging. Digging for pieces sucks, and I think the time spent digging instead of building is the reason you see so many more amazing/creative things happening in minecraft and lego cad programs.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 12:00 PM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
What you'll quickly realize, however, is that even if you build a fairly large collection of lego, there's almost always a few specialized pieces that can only be had in certain sets. Kind of evil, but it makes sense for lego. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the insanity of minifigures, or the fact that people will buy/return sets, only to steal the minifigures. There's also been more than a few pieces written about how licensing things like star wars actually resulted in huge positive effects for lego, as a company.
Specialized pieces, disney licensing, and minifigure theft aside, I'm still 100% pro lego for my son. I've found that $20 worth of bins from ikea and idle time on my part spent sorting pieces results in an explosion of creativity from him. IMHO, it's not the kits that stifle creativity - it's the digging. Digging for pieces sucks, and I think the time spent digging instead of building is the reason you see so many more amazing/creative things happening in minecraft and lego cad programs.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 12:00 PM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think people doing the math on cost-per-piece show there's not really a price difference between media tie-in and regular LEGO sets.
Or, if there is a price difference, it's usually because media tie-in sets have more minifigures on average, which cost more to produce.
As others have mentioned upthread, Lego creativity can vary from person to person. I was and still am a Lego Maniac (cue 80s music) who builds creatively. My brother, however, only built the sets and played with them in set form.
Earlier this week, I decided to give my 3.5 year old son a shot at a Lego Racers set I had lying around. He really surprised me with his ability to assemble the pieces. I had to help him a little with some of the construction, but he enjoyed looking for the parts and assembling the set.
I picked up a Scooby-Doo Mystery Machine today at lunch time. Tonight we shall enter my Lego Cave and build like men!
posted by Fleebnork at 12:12 PM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Or, if there is a price difference, it's usually because media tie-in sets have more minifigures on average, which cost more to produce.
As others have mentioned upthread, Lego creativity can vary from person to person. I was and still am a Lego Maniac (cue 80s music) who builds creatively. My brother, however, only built the sets and played with them in set form.
Earlier this week, I decided to give my 3.5 year old son a shot at a Lego Racers set I had lying around. He really surprised me with his ability to assemble the pieces. I had to help him a little with some of the construction, but he enjoyed looking for the parts and assembling the set.
I picked up a Scooby-Doo Mystery Machine today at lunch time. Tonight we shall enter my Lego Cave and build like men!
posted by Fleebnork at 12:12 PM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I .... did not expect to touch such a nerve.
Thank you particularly for the brilliant commentary on how differentchildren people play with LEGO, in sets and out.
posted by old gray mare at 12:28 PM on August 19, 2015
Thank you particularly for the brilliant commentary on how different
posted by old gray mare at 12:28 PM on August 19, 2015
I can't be the only one who seldom built the kit at all? I had a friend who would build them - and he had almost every set that came out - and leave them together forever though.
He's an architectural designer now.
posted by atoxyl at 12:45 PM on August 19, 2015
He's an architectural designer now.
posted by atoxyl at 12:45 PM on August 19, 2015
LooseFilter: “The article promotes a false dilemma: Lego makes non-themed kits, too.As I found out a couple of Christmases ago, it's also worth searching for Lego under the "Industrial and Scientific" sub-site on Amazon. For example, around $50 buys 884 bricks of "education" Lego versus 580 pieces of "Classic."
We can eat our cake AND have it!”
posted by ob1quixote at 12:55 PM on August 19, 2015
Full disclosure... I have worked on projects for LEGO and LEGO Mindstorms.
Even though there is a subset of people who are more creative without special sets and instructions in hand, that subset of people who always buy and build from non specialized kits is pretty small.
This is true of most "buy pieces and make something" hobbies. Kits are the gateway drug. Some people see building the LEGO "model" as a start and finish task, some people see it as an infinite play system.
LEGO sales go through the roof every time a great new concept is released. Star Wars, Pirates, Ninjas, Knights and Haunted Castles... all of the concepts have the big show stopper sets and lots and lots of smaller and more affordable related sets at various numbers of bricks and price points.
The big sets are aspirational... AND from what I saw in our research that also included observing kids and adults play, is that most people will build the "model" once, and then soon afterward they augment or hack the set with other LEGO pieces.
Tie-Fighters are being flown by pirates and they also have motorized tank tracks. Glow in the dark ghosts and medieval knights are battling cowboys on party ships that have wheels that work great on Hotwheel tracks.
Then comes the engineering. If you build a kit with instructions that can pull a bunch up bricks up 2 feet and dump them into a LEGO truck... I'd argue that you have a much greater probability of hacking that design into something workable of your own design than someone who just got the same pieces in a box with a note that says build a machine that does something. You are learning from a tested design, they are building from scratch.
I can link my own obsession for building art cars/mutant vehicles directly to LEGO. Just because it's based on a thing... if you have the pieces that thing can become anything.
posted by bobdow at 1:04 PM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
Even though there is a subset of people who are more creative without special sets and instructions in hand, that subset of people who always buy and build from non specialized kits is pretty small.
This is true of most "buy pieces and make something" hobbies. Kits are the gateway drug. Some people see building the LEGO "model" as a start and finish task, some people see it as an infinite play system.
LEGO sales go through the roof every time a great new concept is released. Star Wars, Pirates, Ninjas, Knights and Haunted Castles... all of the concepts have the big show stopper sets and lots and lots of smaller and more affordable related sets at various numbers of bricks and price points.
The big sets are aspirational... AND from what I saw in our research that also included observing kids and adults play, is that most people will build the "model" once, and then soon afterward they augment or hack the set with other LEGO pieces.
Tie-Fighters are being flown by pirates and they also have motorized tank tracks. Glow in the dark ghosts and medieval knights are battling cowboys on party ships that have wheels that work great on Hotwheel tracks.
Then comes the engineering. If you build a kit with instructions that can pull a bunch up bricks up 2 feet and dump them into a LEGO truck... I'd argue that you have a much greater probability of hacking that design into something workable of your own design than someone who just got the same pieces in a box with a note that says build a machine that does something. You are learning from a tested design, they are building from scratch.
I can link my own obsession for building art cars/mutant vehicles directly to LEGO. Just because it's based on a thing... if you have the pieces that thing can become anything.
posted by bobdow at 1:04 PM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have a four-year old who loves both the kits and free-play. I went back to school recently and legos have been a lifesaver when I have to take her with me to an evening meeting or when she wants to sit with me while I do homework. I usually take a baggie or small plastic container full of pieces with us and I'm careful to include at least one board and enough random pieces to build something like an airplane or a house, though that is rarely what she ends up building. She's able to focus better with a limited number of pieces and build some really unexpected things.
The one piece that we always bring is Chewbacca. My daughter has not seen Star Wars, so she calls him "Bear from Bear Planet", but he is a favorite. An example baggie is pictured here with other toys from an out of state trip.
I spent the summer working in a city with four driving distance Lego Stores and supplemented her kits using the "Pick-a-brick" wall at each location. I remember never having enough wheels or window glass or hinges for my liking as a kid. My daughter however, focused on the handful of eyes i'd purchased (seen here on a lego crocodile) so all of her builds are covered with eyes, many disturbing but creative eyes.
posted by Alison at 1:23 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The one piece that we always bring is Chewbacca. My daughter has not seen Star Wars, so she calls him "Bear from Bear Planet", but he is a favorite. An example baggie is pictured here with other toys from an out of state trip.
I spent the summer working in a city with four driving distance Lego Stores and supplemented her kits using the "Pick-a-brick" wall at each location. I remember never having enough wheels or window glass or hinges for my liking as a kid. My daughter however, focused on the handful of eyes i'd purchased (seen here on a lego crocodile) so all of her builds are covered with eyes, many disturbing but creative eyes.
posted by Alison at 1:23 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was skeptical about the modern branded kits, which seem to have so many more highly-specific pieces than the ones I had as a kid - but seeing my nephews build and play with and enjoy the new ones, I'm sold. The new kits have a lot more moving parts and other things that allow them to be creative while playing with the built toy, and encourage them to examine the pieces to see how they're doing it - how the hinges work, how the rivets work, which part is swiveling, etc. They're cool. Plus the kids still enjoy digging through my bin of more-generic pieces from the old days, on a "let's build rocket cars" free-for-all. (Plus I'm more patient than I was as a kid, and better able to understand how the pulleys work and everything, so it's fun to revisit my old sets too.)
The one thing I think they should make again that they don't, which is the boat that comes apart into three watertight sections. IIRC it also had a detachable keel ballast, now that's lost to the mists of time, but the kids loove to play with the hull in the tub. It has a deck tow ring that you can tie a painter to (or a hook from one of the old crane sets) and tow it around.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:19 PM on August 19, 2015
The one thing I think they should make again that they don't, which is the boat that comes apart into three watertight sections. IIRC it also had a detachable keel ballast, now that's lost to the mists of time, but the kids loove to play with the hull in the tub. It has a deck tow ring that you can tie a painter to (or a hook from one of the old crane sets) and tow it around.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:19 PM on August 19, 2015
Er, and my point about the boat is - those are pieces that can't really be used as something else - they're as purpose-specific as any of the bits from the modern kits - but they're still really great and highly replayable.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:21 PM on August 19, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:21 PM on August 19, 2015
Sorry, I've been busy at work and am just now catching up. I apologize for bringing it to you late, but here it is.
posted by Legomancer at 4:18 PM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Legomancer at 4:18 PM on August 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
The one thing I think they should make again that they don't, which is the boat that comes apart into three watertight sections. IIRC it also had a detachable keel ballast
One of my younger siblings had that boat, and I remember the keel ballast. Eventually it got loose and wouldn't stay on in the water, if I remember correctly.
I had mostly the generic, multipurpose blocks and loved them, but when I see friends' kids playing with modern Lego kits they seem to work fine in terms of creativity; I see the kids combining and recombining the pieces in all kinds of ways. I am dubious about the conclusions here.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 PM on August 19, 2015
One of my younger siblings had that boat, and I remember the keel ballast. Eventually it got loose and wouldn't stay on in the water, if I remember correctly.
I had mostly the generic, multipurpose blocks and loved them, but when I see friends' kids playing with modern Lego kits they seem to work fine in terms of creativity; I see the kids combining and recombining the pieces in all kinds of ways. I am dubious about the conclusions here.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 PM on August 19, 2015
Oh, man. I can date my Lego years fairly precisely, from around age 6 to age 11. (At 11, I sold my Lego collection to raise the funds to buy electronics stuff, It was a sound decision, but growing up in a middle-class professional family that had absolutely no money has left me with some weird values. Anyway.)
Somewhere in the middle of those years, which were the early/mid 70s, I had my first really serious consumerist pash. We lived on the edge of the biggest city in the region, which wasn't very big but did have some large department stores in it. One had a toy department, with quite a large Lego area. And this had, on display, a Lego Saturn V kit. Which was too expensive, but set me on fire.
I dreamed about tunnelling into the store late at night to steal it. I must have nagged my parents senseless, because that birthday... I got it.
It had lots of special bricks - I remember particularly the four-stud-in-a-line curved white and black bricks that made up the main body of the rocket. I built it up from the instructions and for a couple of days (despite strong parental guidance otherwise) flew it on missions in the garden (as in, held it in my hands while running around the place).
I think I lost some essential components during that phase, though whether I managed to hide that I can't remember (so probably not). The remaining parts were swiftly added to the big box of bits thereafter, and happily reused in all sorts of mad contraptions. Quite a few ended up in the constellation of Lego fantasy satellites I hung from my ceiling with sellotape and thread.
At some point during that period, we visited relatives in London. One of them - it may have been Aunty Het or Aunty May - gave me another Lego kit, which was of a 1920s/30s car. The only thing I remember of that in any detail is that it had transparent 2x2 bricks with tiny lamps inside for headlights (and some sort of red studs for tail lights) that ran from a battery pack. I dutifully built the kit, but was fascinated only by the glowy electrical bits and very swiftly (ie, before we left the aunt's house) repurposed the kit to some sort of nuclear reactor with a glowing core that cast fab shadows.
I think in both cases, having been gifted expensive Lego kits only to roundly abuse them, I upset the grown-ups. In both cases, I got excellent (and easily remembered at no small distance) satisfaction and creative outlets.
Lego kits have been around forever. They've always cost too much. Once they're in the hands of those darn kids, then whatever will happen, will happen. Do not fret. This is the natural order of things.
posted by Devonian at 6:27 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Somewhere in the middle of those years, which were the early/mid 70s, I had my first really serious consumerist pash. We lived on the edge of the biggest city in the region, which wasn't very big but did have some large department stores in it. One had a toy department, with quite a large Lego area. And this had, on display, a Lego Saturn V kit. Which was too expensive, but set me on fire.
I dreamed about tunnelling into the store late at night to steal it. I must have nagged my parents senseless, because that birthday... I got it.
It had lots of special bricks - I remember particularly the four-stud-in-a-line curved white and black bricks that made up the main body of the rocket. I built it up from the instructions and for a couple of days (despite strong parental guidance otherwise) flew it on missions in the garden (as in, held it in my hands while running around the place).
I think I lost some essential components during that phase, though whether I managed to hide that I can't remember (so probably not). The remaining parts were swiftly added to the big box of bits thereafter, and happily reused in all sorts of mad contraptions. Quite a few ended up in the constellation of Lego fantasy satellites I hung from my ceiling with sellotape and thread.
At some point during that period, we visited relatives in London. One of them - it may have been Aunty Het or Aunty May - gave me another Lego kit, which was of a 1920s/30s car. The only thing I remember of that in any detail is that it had transparent 2x2 bricks with tiny lamps inside for headlights (and some sort of red studs for tail lights) that ran from a battery pack. I dutifully built the kit, but was fascinated only by the glowy electrical bits and very swiftly (ie, before we left the aunt's house) repurposed the kit to some sort of nuclear reactor with a glowing core that cast fab shadows.
I think in both cases, having been gifted expensive Lego kits only to roundly abuse them, I upset the grown-ups. In both cases, I got excellent (and easily remembered at no small distance) satisfaction and creative outlets.
Lego kits have been around forever. They've always cost too much. Once they're in the hands of those darn kids, then whatever will happen, will happen. Do not fret. This is the natural order of things.
posted by Devonian at 6:27 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
*Sigh* I guess I'm going to have to post the picture of it, complete with Saruman selling hot dogs from his Lego hot dog cart to the Uruk-Hai (which, yes, is part of the set up I have). I am not without fun and whimsy.
Always post pictures.
Ok, so here we go (these aren't the best, it turned into kind of a crazy day, so I just grabbed a few quick photos). The "full tower", with lunch break going on at the tower steps. Two Uruk-Hai are getting sausages from Saurman while Treebeard looks on, contemplating the merits of a photosynthetic diet, perhaps. A little closer on the lunch break, and from a different angle we can see that Grima Wormtongue is not on-board with this idea at all, while Axe-wielding Uruk kind of "cuts off" the head of his companion, who has already been served.
President Business represent!
posted by nubs at 8:30 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Always post pictures.
Ok, so here we go (these aren't the best, it turned into kind of a crazy day, so I just grabbed a few quick photos). The "full tower", with lunch break going on at the tower steps. Two Uruk-Hai are getting sausages from Saurman while Treebeard looks on, contemplating the merits of a photosynthetic diet, perhaps. A little closer on the lunch break, and from a different angle we can see that Grima Wormtongue is not on-board with this idea at all, while Axe-wielding Uruk kind of "cuts off" the head of his companion, who has already been served.
President Business represent!
posted by nubs at 8:30 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had that boat! The boat was great.
Now I must find the boat again.
posted by Artw at 8:41 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now I must find the boat again.
posted by Artw at 8:41 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I still have the ol' Fire Boat parts kicking around my collection.
Our Mystery Machine build went pretty well. Fleebnork Jr. didn't quite have the attention span to make it all the way through, so I finished it up for him so he could play. He did inquire as to the whereabouts of Daphne and Velma, both of whom are in the expensive haunted house set. Looks like we'll have to ask Santa about that one.
Also, Fred, Shaggy and Scoob are currently investigating a mysterious truck carrying the Ark of the Covenant. I asked if Indy should participate, but the offer was declined. Oh well.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:38 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Our Mystery Machine build went pretty well. Fleebnork Jr. didn't quite have the attention span to make it all the way through, so I finished it up for him so he could play. He did inquire as to the whereabouts of Daphne and Velma, both of whom are in the expensive haunted house set. Looks like we'll have to ask Santa about that one.
Also, Fred, Shaggy and Scoob are currently investigating a mysterious truck carrying the Ark of the Covenant. I asked if Indy should participate, but the offer was declined. Oh well.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:38 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Though theoretically not possible I actually incorporated the fire boat design into all kinds of Fossian spaceship and crawler designs as a kid.
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on August 20, 2015
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on August 20, 2015
I too had that boat. I believe it was set 4005.
But it seems there are 44 lego sets which float on water!
I have some AFOL friends (in fact I they are right this second flying to Bilund to visit the factory) who tell me that there was a period in the late 1990's I think? where lego part specificity rose alarmingly and there were a lot of POOPs and SPUDs (Look, this is how they talk, I can't help it) and this correlated with a major downturn in Lego fortunes which was only reversed with the Star Wars licence.
Incidentally, some people have found great success using that boat ballast part to power trebuchets apparently.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:39 AM on August 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
But it seems there are 44 lego sets which float on water!
I have some AFOL friends (in fact I they are right this second flying to Bilund to visit the factory) who tell me that there was a period in the late 1990's I think? where lego part specificity rose alarmingly and there were a lot of POOPs and SPUDs (Look, this is how they talk, I can't help it) and this correlated with a major downturn in Lego fortunes which was only reversed with the Star Wars licence.
Incidentally, some people have found great success using that boat ballast part to power trebuchets apparently.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:39 AM on August 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think mine was 709: Police Boat but it looks like they used the same hull for a few sets.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:11 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:11 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have some AFOL friends (in fact I they are right this second flying to Bilund to visit the factory) who tell me that there was a period in the late 1990's I think? where lego part specificity rose alarmingly and there were a lot of POOPs and SPUDs (Look, this is how they talk, I can't help it) and this correlated with a major downturn in Lego fortunes which was only reversed with the Star Wars licence.
Disclosure: I was part of the LEGO Ambassador program for the program's first couple of years. I traveled to Billund in 2006 to work on the set design for the Mars Mission Dropship. I also designed the Space Skulls set for LEGO Factory. Through the LEGO Ambassador program, the company has been very forthcoming and communicative with the fan base. There was a lot of discussion of the company's issues shared with fans around that time.
The Star Wars and Harry Potter licenses were profitable, but weren't the only factor in the turnaround. One of the hugely costly things the company did in the past was allowing set designers to invent/create whatever piece they wanted. When you extrapolate that practice out over the costs of producing new molds and pieces every year, the costs can get astronomical. Part creation was heavily restricted, as well as deciding on a strict part/color palette to be used for each production year.
Another thing that helped the company was the advent of computer-tracked, "just in time" retail inventory management. In the early 2000s, I remember being able to get fire sale prices on LEGO sets after the holiday season, mainly because inventory was loosely tracked. The "just in time" systems allowed stores to much more strictly control the amount of excess inventory they had. Great for LEGO and the stores, not so much for AFOLs looking for sales.
The overall philosophy of set design got a big overhaul as well, which is mentioned in the FastCompany article I linked below:
There are a couple of articles that talk about some of the issues and ways the company recovered. FastCompany | UTalk
posted by Fleebnork at 9:47 AM on August 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Disclosure: I was part of the LEGO Ambassador program for the program's first couple of years. I traveled to Billund in 2006 to work on the set design for the Mars Mission Dropship. I also designed the Space Skulls set for LEGO Factory. Through the LEGO Ambassador program, the company has been very forthcoming and communicative with the fan base. There was a lot of discussion of the company's issues shared with fans around that time.
The Star Wars and Harry Potter licenses were profitable, but weren't the only factor in the turnaround. One of the hugely costly things the company did in the past was allowing set designers to invent/create whatever piece they wanted. When you extrapolate that practice out over the costs of producing new molds and pieces every year, the costs can get astronomical. Part creation was heavily restricted, as well as deciding on a strict part/color palette to be used for each production year.
Another thing that helped the company was the advent of computer-tracked, "just in time" retail inventory management. In the early 2000s, I remember being able to get fire sale prices on LEGO sets after the holiday season, mainly because inventory was loosely tracked. The "just in time" systems allowed stores to much more strictly control the amount of excess inventory they had. Great for LEGO and the stores, not so much for AFOLs looking for sales.
The overall philosophy of set design got a big overhaul as well, which is mentioned in the FastCompany article I linked below:
There are a couple of articles that talk about some of the issues and ways the company recovered. FastCompany | UTalk
posted by Fleebnork at 9:47 AM on August 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
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