"I'm not holding onto the past. I have a souvenir that I never wanted."
August 19, 2015 10:20 AM   Subscribe

"The truth is too ugly for a general audience. I didn't want to see a depiction of me getting beat up, just like I didn't want to see a depiction of Dre beating up Michel'le, his one-time girlfriend who recently summed up their relationship this way: 'I was just a quiet girlfriend who got beat on and told to sit down and shut up.' But what should have been addressed is that it occurred."

Here's What's Missing From Straight Outta Compton: Me and the Other Women Dr. Dre Beat Up by Dee Barnes. [cw: violence against women, extreme misogyny]
posted by divined by radio (56 comments total) 62 users marked this as a favorite
 
An important article, well-done and well-written. But so very sad. Thank you for posting this--
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 10:30 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


"People have accused me of holding onto the past; I’m not holding onto the past. I have a souvenir that I never wanted. The past holds onto me."

Damn, that's powerful.

That was tough to read, but I'm glad I did. I hope more light shines upon Dre's treatment of women.

Thanks for the post, divined by radio.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:32 AM on August 19, 2015 [25 favorites]


It's extra awful that everyone else just seems to have caved in and refused to work with her because they didn't want to cross Dr. Dre. That just seems to be the way it works - the woman in the case loses everything even if people agree that she was unjustly attacked.

It's also so sad because I remember reading stories about many of the women who were sort of around that scene - Yo Yo in particular - and they just all seemed so strong and confident and together in a very multicultural early-nineties way that felt so optimistic. It's so sad that all this was behind the scenes.
posted by Frowner at 10:34 AM on August 19, 2015 [28 favorites]


Now the lyric "are you gonna take advice from somebody who slapped Dee Barnes?" from Eminems Guilty Conscience makes sense.

Thanks for sharing this.
posted by dr_dank at 10:36 AM on August 19, 2015 [8 favorites]


When I was sitting there in the theater, and the movie’s timeline skipped by my attack without a glance, I was like, “Uhhh, what happened?”...

Dre, who executive produced the movie...


That's what happened. This was never going to be a journalistic documentary. Asking this woman to watch this film was a setup for nothing but a piece on how powerless and victimised this man, his actions, and his position have made her.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:38 AM on August 19, 2015 [7 favorites]


Never thought I'd live to see a NWA biopic described as hagiographic...
posted by GuyZero at 10:38 AM on August 19, 2015 [13 favorites]


I want some movies about women in rap, like, yesterday. There are so many stories not getting told. SOC was touching, but definitely an approved biography, and in retrospect it's telling that none of the women got more than a few seconds onscreen or a few lines of dialogue, pretty much all of it related to sex/partying/supporting one of the main characters.
posted by emjaybee at 10:38 AM on August 19, 2015 [7 favorites]


Christ, that's upsetting to read. Most people really don't care about what these guys did, and those are the ones who don't actually approve of what these guys did.
posted by holborne at 10:41 AM on August 19, 2015


Dee Barnes is currently writing her memoir, Music, Myth, and Misogyny: Memoirs of a Female MC. She is looking for a publisher.

I sure hope she finds one because getting more from her from this time in music history something I'd love to read.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:45 AM on August 19, 2015 [16 favorites]


From another very powerful piece on the same topic, Black Women Are Never Priority: N.W.A, the Politics of Misogyny and My Battered Body by Kimberly Foster:
Misogyny is political. We cannot discuss the revolutionary politics of N.W.A., for example, without mentioning another clearly and dangerously articulated stance chosen by the group and its members. While it is correct to note N.W.A.'s role in giving voice to urban frustrations, it is also correct to consider their role in perpetuating virulent hatred of women—the kind that puts all women at risk everyday. We can't ignore it because it doesn't fit the narrative. Misogyny kills, and it is not accidental. It is always a choice.
posted by divined by radio at 10:48 AM on August 19, 2015 [47 favorites]


Never thought I'd live to see a NWA biopic described as hagiographic...

First NWA track I ever heard was Gangsta Gangsta, which includes the delightful nugget:

Do I look like a mutha fuckin role model?
To a kid lookin' up ta me
Life ain't nothin but bitches and money.


Which I guess is my version of, well, here's my shocked face.
posted by philip-random at 10:48 AM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]


The fact that it's hardly shocking makes society's complicity in it no less horrific.
posted by howfar at 10:57 AM on August 19, 2015 [12 favorites]


Maybe their stories will be recounted in a documentary called Efil4Zaggin, the second NWA record, which charted #1 on Billboard (the first hardcore rap album to do so) and has half a side of it mostly dedicated to songs like "One Less Bitch".

Here's the initial LA Times article about the assault.

Here's a Spin magazine article featuring an interview with Eazy-E in which he says: “He grabbed the bitch by the little hair that she had. Threw the bitch to the bathroom door. Pow!! . . . She was fucked up worse than Rodney King!”

I took these from here, which tries to explain the underrated "masterpiece" that was Efil4Zaggin but recounts the controversies at the time.
posted by gucci mane at 11:07 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


My initial reaction when I first saw the preview for this movie was, of course they're going to ignore Dre's violence toward women, and that's why I'll never see this.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:10 AM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]


Seems to me that this movie should be seeing at least some of, if not more than, the boycotting that the Stonewall movie is. After these two articles (thank you for the FPP) I certainly won't be watching Straight Outta Compton. Fuck that.
posted by wyndham at 11:10 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


gucci mane's Spin article link reads like a piece of conceptual art. Chapman Brothers or something. No doubt the men involved are playing up to their self-confessed audience of 'metal fans', but it's a relentless onslaught of foul-mouthed idiocy that would be comical if it weren't for the context of this thread.
posted by colie at 11:23 AM on August 19, 2015


The fact that it's hardly shocking makes society's complicity in it no less horrific.

I think one of the most important part of this article is that she, and other women who knew the group, WERE shocked. She says that none of these men talked about women like that in public during their early years, which made their album baffling to some of the members of their social circle.

Was it performance for the sake of an audience? Not exclusively, given how Dre and others actually treated women in private. But there seems to be a special kind of pain for the women who knew these men “on their way up”, women who knew NWA's members as part of a social and professional group of friends and colleagues, but who then ended up hearing those lyrics when the album came out, not to mention the threats and violence that came later.

Men who announce their misogyny up front are often less scary than the ones who are your friends for years before they show their true face.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:42 AM on August 19, 2015 [44 favorites]


Yea. I'd love to see a less hagiographic biopic about N.W.A. Sadly, this one looks like one long extended handjob.
posted by echocollate at 11:50 AM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


I have no love for hoes
That's somethin I learned in the pound
so how the fuck am I supposed
to pay this hoe, just to lay this hoe
I know the pussy's mines, I'ma fuck a couple more times
And then I'm through with it, there's nothing else to do with it
Pass it to the homie, now you hit it
Cause she ain't nuthin but a bitch to me


I cannot believe that people who made millions off of lyrics like these treated the women in their lives in anything but a progressive, feminist way.
posted by todayandtomorrow at 11:51 AM on August 19, 2015 [8 favorites]


a) terrific film
b) self-serving, self-aggrandizing
c) the dead guy - e - is the only nwa member portrayed as having serious human flaws
d) the misogony portrayed is pretty much mtv-style ho's fo' the bros. not ya know - actual, personal, violence.
e) not a documentary
f) nwa was totally right about the cops 20 years ago
g) terrific film
posted by j_curiouser at 12:08 PM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]


Well see, back in the day we weren't allowed to take issue with the misogyny in the lyrics because that was seen as stifling to this wonderful mirror that was being held up to society or whatever.

(Goes back to listening to Tribe Called Quest)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:14 PM on August 19, 2015 [19 favorites]


lyrics like these

As a young NWA devotee the misogyny seemed part of the theatrical anti-societal ultraviolence that was meted out on everybody. NWA was not really hauling off bodies or mowing down cops; it all seemed for pose and unreal. I gues the real sham was that they were at all hardcore, punching down isn't tough though its clear the crew thought it bought cred.

He seems to have moved forward since then, its unfortunate he didn't take steps to acknowledge his darker past. I guess it'd make it harder to buy a product called "Beats by Dr. Dre" if what that meant was in our face.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:21 PM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


beats by dre... #thuglife

i watched this interview kendrick lamar does with NWA and the parts about keeping their families away from the business because of 'shady characters' and being pioneers at commercializing a non-'squeaky clean' image as artists -- 'thugged out' and 'raw' -- take on new meaning. nothing really new i guess except the person; 'artist as a role model' has been endlessly rehashed -- from woody allen and roman polanski (and now jared fogle) to bill cosby and r. kelly (or check out TAL on OJ simpson) -- and should be as long as people continue to defend the inexcusable. if artists (or whoever) don't own up to their 'mistakes' then they deserve public shaming and shunning; being an artist, celebrity or respected public figure isn't a shield and doesn't give them immunity from being a decent human being no matter how much their art or accomplishments mean to or impress people.

i do wonder how kendrick lamar will respond tho given some of the socially conscious lyrics he's written and performed before.
posted by kliuless at 12:21 PM on August 19, 2015


Well see, back in the day we weren't allowed to take issue with the misogyny in the lyrics because that was seen as stifling to this wonderful mirror that was being held up to society or whatever.

Here's a cringe inducing video of a woman resigning herself to the realization of what's going to define the entire genre for a decade.
posted by deathmaven at 12:25 PM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


This could have been seen coming with the jaw-dropping casting call for certain extras. Then when outrage ensued, the studio and the producers made the casting company take the fall.

Thanks for posting this. I considered doing it but feared it would be deemed axe-grindy. The movie was good (especially the soundtrack) despite it all but CGIing a halo over Dre's head.
posted by fuse theorem at 12:30 PM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]


(Goes back to listening to Tribe Called Quest)

Let me ruin that one for you too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKcZb5LufE
posted by todayandtomorrow at 12:33 PM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]


He seems to have moved forward since then, its unfortunate he didn't take steps to acknowledge his darker past.

Well he did let Eminem call him out in a song they did together. But, uh, that song builds up to both of them dropping their angel/devil routine to agree that it's okay for a man to shoot his cheating wife and her lover.
posted by atoxyl at 12:35 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


Eek (at the Tribe link upthread)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:35 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


i am glad dee barnes is getting her story out there again, and hopefully in a better social environment than the one that met her originally (although by looking at the twitter mentions of black women who have shared this link, i fear not). i find it strange that anyone who was an nwa fan at the time wasn't aware of dre's treatment towards women, but everyone has a different level of engagement, i guess.

i enjoyed the things that ava duvernay had to say about the movie

i do wonder if the (white) people who come for the misogyny in rap ever discuss the misogyny in punk, indie rock, hair metal, mainstream country, and on and on and on...
posted by nadawi at 12:38 PM on August 19, 2015 [14 favorites]


Plenty of room to discuss white musician misogyny, absolutely. I did worry about posting this article to my FB because fellow white people might just roll their eyes and mutter "thugs" without considering what their favorite dad-rock bands were like when it came to women.
posted by emjaybee at 12:49 PM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]


jaw-dropping casting call for certain extras.

Jesus F Christ, that was sickening. (As always, don't read the comments.)

Let me ruin that one for you too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKcZb5LufE


WHAT THE WHAT?!

Man, rap music was the background sound -- and often in the foreground too -- of my late teens to mid-twenties, but sometimes I fear the genre and its attendant culture as a whole are pretty much the embodiment of the concept of toxic masculinity.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:54 PM on August 19, 2015 [4 favorites]


It's almost as if it were primarily a commercial movement driven by the tastes of a mainstream audience and its expectations toward its purveyors.
posted by deathmaven at 12:58 PM on August 19, 2015 [5 favorites]


Counterpunch has Dave Marsh's review of Luther Campbells "autobiography". Banned in the USA: Luther Campbell Unbound. (He likes it.)
posted by bukvich at 12:58 PM on August 19, 2015


a commercial movement driven by the tastes of a mainstream audience

And therefore possibly quite a bad thing? When I was kid in the UK everyone preferred Public Enemy to NWA.
posted by colie at 1:06 PM on August 19, 2015


And therefore possibly quite a bad thing?

No, just not the organic grassroots "sound of the streets" that it advertised itself to be.
posted by deathmaven at 1:09 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


...everyone preferred Public Enemy to NWA..

That is a correct position.

(Not that PE didn't have some extremely problematic elements as well, but that's an FPP for another day)
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:10 PM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]


the misogony portrayed is pretty much mtv-style ho's fo' the bros. not ya know - actual, personal, violence.

You might think these two concepts are largely or even entirely mutually exclusive, but I think it's important to point out that they're nothing more than points on a spectrum, and even more important to acknowledge that those points are much closer together than anyone wants to believe. Language that enumerates, revels in, and glorifies violence against women as a class helps to normalize misogynistic violence in every aspect of our lives; in particular, it allows men to justify any subsequent physical manifestations of said language. Still, we're told again and again that it's just music, it's just words, and it's all in jest, besides.

But the choices of men who enact physical violence against women don't hatch out of thin air: in large part, they're born from centuries of nurturing and nourishment offered by our culture's widespread celebration of misogynistic speech and tacit tolerance of misogynistic actions. The hatred carried in all of those "just words" is regularly amplified and echoed, sent out to bleed freely across all forms of our media and entertainment, pouring out of the mouths of our elected officials and reverberating in the halls of our governments. So for a lot of women, it can actually be dangerous to behave as though there's a very meaningful difference between celebrating men who proliferate misogyny with their words and celebrating men who proliferate misogyny with their fists.

Here's a cringe inducing video of a woman resigning herself to the realization of what's going to define the entire genre for a decade.

To bring it back around full circle, the woman is Dee Barnes (author of the FPP link) and the video is from her weekly hip hop video/interview series, Pump It Up. A bunch of clips from the show are posted on her YouTube page.

i enjoyed the things that ava duvernay had to say about the movie

Wow. "To be a woman who loves hip hop at times is to be in love with your abuser. Because the music was and is that. And yet the culture is ours."
posted by divined by radio at 1:17 PM on August 19, 2015 [27 favorites]


This is fucking awful. I hope Apple investigates, verifies the story, and scrubs Beats of Dre.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:46 PM on August 19, 2015


When I was kid in the UK everyone preferred Public Enemy to NWA.

It was like that originally in Detroit, and then in a short period everything changed.

I was at the Nitro show that (I've heard) was depicted in the movie. Outside it was the closest I've ever seen to what a police state looks like; inside was tense with all the gangs marching in formation through the crowds. We knew that NWA would bring them out, but most of us were there for the headliners: LL Cool J and De La Soul. When NWA fled the stage after someone set of firecrackers in the crowd (and we all did think it was gunfire at first, the whole arena froze) the talk afterwards was, we knew they were fake.

And we knew about the misogyny backstage. It was far more gross than anything we'd heard about rock and roll shows - female arena staff were verbally abused constantly.

So I was always torn about gangsta rap. On one hand, I thought it was important that America learn what has happening in the inner cities. On the other hand, we all knew - or I thought we all knew - that MTV was creating a gangsta image for popular consumption, and that these guys were cooperating fully.

I left the country for a few years, and was shocked when I returned to find that 1) hip hop was the dominant music in a lot of white America, and 2) that the hip hop I knew and loved had been replaced by Death Row bullshit.

I'm glad these women are speaking out.
posted by kanewai at 1:48 PM on August 19, 2015 [8 favorites]


I hope Apple investigates, verifies the story

Um. This has been a known and as far as I know uncontested part of the NWA/Dre story since the days before "hagiographic NWA biopic" wouldn't have sounded wildly implausible
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on August 19, 2015 [13 favorites]


Beatings by Dr. Dre
posted by persona au gratin at 1:58 PM on August 19, 2015


I didn't mean to cast doubt on her story. I just don't want people to be able to say he was unfairly treated. Because they will.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:59 PM on August 19, 2015


dre isn't merely a celebrity spokesperson for beats so scrubbing him might be harder than it first appears.
posted by nadawi at 2:03 PM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]


From the Beatings by Dr. Dre link "If I got my assed kicked like that. I can’t tell you I wouldn’t continue to shirk responsibility for any part I played in it."

Byron Crawford can go fuck himself.
posted by howfar at 2:42 PM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


Wow, persona, that Beatings by Dr. Dre article is wrong on so many levels, while managing to be right on one.

(on preview, I agree with howfar)
posted by HE Amb. T. S. L. DuVal at 2:57 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


I didn't mean to cast doubt on her story. I just don't want people to be able to say he was unfairly treated. Because they will.

The point is this is not even an allegation - everything but the smallest details is documented fact that people conveniently forgot as the Death Row crew became beloved elder statesmen. We'll see if it sticks longer this time.
posted by atoxyl at 3:41 PM on August 19, 2015


Goddamn it tribe.

I hope they have decided to reverse their position on that.

Also yeah I always liked public enemy better as well.

I'm rather amazed at how i could just ignore lyrics all this time. I remember the beats and rhythms of various songs from this era but I never really took any of the lyrics seriously. Actually I never really questioned them at all because no one else did.

I hope that I don't find out awful misogynistic things about Maynard and Vedder next because then all my 90s music will be ruined.
posted by sio42 at 4:24 PM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]


Sorry; the article came up as I was looking for more into Dre's history, and it had more women in it, and the details were similarly awful (such that it was hard for me to read in parts), but it went to the sort of person Dre is, so I linked it. But yeah, it itself is pretty awful.
posted by persona au gratin at 4:48 PM on August 19, 2015


kinda OT and purely anecdotal, but i was watching this nardwuar interview with tyler the creator and then heard terry gross interview larry wilmore and felt a certain nostalgia for the 1970s (while having watched a rerun of the jeffersons last nite); here's wilmore:
The whole '70s is a great period. I think America just turned its brain off in the '70s (laughter). It's really unbelievable. We were like OK, '60s, we get it. We get it; there's a lot of important stuff, we get it '60s. We just want to listen to a little disco, watch a little "Star Wars," you know, and just chill for a little bit, you know? So it's funny. And the hedonism during the '70s was just out of control. It was just amazing to me how it was so different then. The - just the excesses were just off the charts in the '70s. So that period is just very interesting to me; it's really funny.
no real point i guess except to note the evolution of music and culture and speaking to the misogyny of gangsta rap in particular maybe it's helpful that hip hop has moved on to black hippies and nerds (who can still be misogynistic); wilmore again:
GROSS: So you've used the word blerd (ph), which is a combination word of black nerd. Why is that a thing now? That seems to be... It seems to be a thing. People have called President Obama a blerd. The movie "Dope" was about African-American kids who consider themselves nerds.

WILMORE: Sure. Well, you know, who knows? It used to be that the black comic figure had to have this bravado and always showed strength, you know, had the point of view of the ghetto and all that kind of stuff. So I think that, now, there's a comic figure where it's OK to just be a nerd and be black. I'm actually working on a show for HBO right now I helped develop. We started a couple years ago with Issa Rae. And she did a web series called "The Misadventures Of An Awkward Black Girl," you know? And it's the same type of idea, where I'm black and I'm awkward, you know? I'm not black and sassy. And, you know, I think it's just how things evolved, that, you know, we find different ways to express and to laugh and that type of thing. But for me, it's just kind of who I am. I mean, I grew up doing magic tricks, you know?

[...]

GROSS: So - but getting back to the blerd thing - the black nerd thing - there's so much of African-American culture - i.e. rap - that is so involved with bragging and with...

WILMORE: Right.

GROSS: ...Showing how, like, important and strong and brave.

WILMORE: Yes, I'm the best, and I do this.

GROSS: I'm the best, yes. Like, self-defeating humor is not part of that language.

WILMORE: Correct. And I was formed by Woody Allen, by Marx Brothers, by Monty Python, so many different types of influences. I was more formed by, I think, Jewish-American comedy than I was black-American comedy when I was growing up. So the self-deprecation, that's where it lives the most, was in that type of comedy. And I identified with that very early on. It was just - it was just more of who I was, you know?

GROSS: But here's the thing - if you do the self-deprecating stuff and call attention to things that you think are weaknesses, but you're in a kind of bragging culture and a culture of, like, strength and power, then you're exposing weaknesses that other people in the strength, power, bragging culture can take advantage of and use against you. So it can actually be dangerous in that respect, unless you're, like, you're so funny that you disarm people with your humor.

WILMORE: That's the key, Terry.
anyway, backing up a bit, here he is on cosby and feminism to maybe bring this back on topic wrt artists as role models:
WILMORE: Yep, yep, yep. I think the thing that makes me the most - well, there's certain - several things about that that make me angry - the period of time that these things have happened over, the fact that these women have these allegations but people could care less. It was like, who cares about what women have to say, you know? You know, the whole idea of a powerful man being able to shut up all these women is so abhorrent to me. That issue was what really drove me first is the idea that a powerful man can just shut women up, you know? That's what started this whole thing. It had nothing even to do with the fact of liking Cosby or not liking Cosby. It was that simple issue. But yep - so that's the part of it that really drove me on it.

And it's funny because, you know, I've never thought of myself as any advocate for anything. But I remember about 10 or 11 years ago, I joined the - I was on the board of directors for the Writers Guild of America. I just wanted - I thought, you know what? I've had a good career as a writer, I should really give back, you know? But I thought, I mean, I'm not particularly passionate about anything. But I realized many times when you show up for something, you find where your passions are, even if you don't know it. And it was fascinating to me, I realized how passionate I was about so many issues and I didn't even know it because the issues presented themselves to me and I had to declare where I stood, right? So I ended up fighting a lot for writers in certain situations - under-represented writers, women in certain situations. And I didn't even know how much of a feminist I was. And I realized oh, my god, I was raised by a single mom who had to raise six kids. I have three sisters. Larry, you've been a feminist your whole life, you really didn't know it until you've been presented with these issues. And it was the Cosby issue that made me realize how much I really cared about women's issues and how much I realize it's important for me to be an advocate for issues that aren't necessarily my own - to be an ally for issues.

You know, and I feel the same way about the gay issue now. You know, I'm not a homosexual, but if I can be an ally for that issue, I think it's fantastic. But I think the women's issue was one that I really didn't know about and I had to examine my whole life. You know, even - I looked at my relationship with my daughter and all my talks with her, and I realized how I was involved in this journey even talking with my daughter about her role in the world and that sort of thing. So if I don't do anything else - look, if the race stuff - all that stuff is funny. Even if that went away, I think me being an ally for women's issues is probably the most important thing that I feel I'm doing on the show.
posted by kliuless at 5:09 PM on August 19, 2015 [2 favorites]


Goddamn it tribe.

I hope they have decided to reverse their position on that.


That song is a collaboration with Brand Nubian, who certainly have not. There's a strong dose of patriarchal social conservatism in "conscious"/afrocentric movements. Chuck D took some anti-gay shots too but he seems to have moved on, though without explicitly apologizing. Nobody seems to have got around to asking anyone from ATCQ recently. For some reason I feel like they probably have evolved a bit too but I dunno.
posted by atoxyl at 8:42 PM on August 19, 2015


The LA Times is reporting that the assault on Dee Barnes wasn't always left out of this story. The stated reasons for leaving it out of the finished product are what you'd expect and don't really hold that much water with me, but ymmv.
posted by sparkletone at 3:14 AM on August 20, 2015


I just can't figure out how Dre thought that this wasn't going to come up, or that he could just make it go away with one sentence about "regret" or whatever. Everybody who knows anything about gangsta rap knows he's a 'roid-raging woman-beater. He'd almost lived that reputation down in recent years. Why remind people of it? He certainly doesn't need the money, and his legacy is assured through his music and production work. I guess we can add "megalomaniac" to the list of superlatives on his C.V.
posted by Optamystic at 4:43 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


I hear you, but I'm not sure it's that far. Though people might talk about Dre-as-an-abuser a lot in certain circles, I feel confident saying he's probably pretty insulated from it on an ongoing basis and has been for years.

If you've never had to really answer for a certain type of misdeed (and I don't believe a fine, probation, and community service count as answering for it), you may not say "bitch deserved it" out loud anymore, but you also probably don't think of yourself in that light and feel like everybody else should feel the same way. It's something that happened, not something that defines you or something that people should keep bringing up, no matter the damage you caused. If that's megalomania, there are literally thousands of abusers you could label the same way.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:20 AM on August 20, 2015 [3 favorites]


not to overdo the '70s thing but cornel west is on board! (while namechecking kendrick lamar and 'brother coates' ;)
There is not just a rekindling, but a re-invigoration taking place among the younger generation that enacts and enables prophetic fire. We’ve been in an ice age. If you go from the 1960s and 1970s — that’s my generation. But there was also an ice age called the neoliberal epoch, an ice age where it was no longer a beautiful thing to be on fire. It was a beautiful thing to have money. It was a beautiful thing to have status. It was a beautiful thing to have public reputation without a whole lot of commitment to social justice, whereas the younger generation is now catching the fire of the generation of the 1960s and 1970s...

The problem is that during the neoliberal epoch and during the ice age you’ve got the process of “niggerization,” which is designed to keep black people afraid. Keep them scared. Keep them intimidated. Keep them bowing and scraping... When you teach black people that they are less beautiful, less moral, less intelligent, and as a result you defer to the white supremacist status quo, you rationalize your accommodation to the status quo, you lose your fire, you become much more tied to producing foliage, what appears to be the case. And, of course, in late capitalist culture, the culture of superficial spectacle, driven by capital, driven by money, driven by the market, it’s all about image and interest, anyway. In other words, principle drops out. Any conception of being a person of integrity is laughed at because what is central is image, what is central is interest. And, of course, interest is tied to money, and image is tied to the peacock projection, of what you appear to be.
posted by kliuless at 8:19 AM on August 21, 2015




True story: I generally preferred the clean version of the Straight Outta Compton album. Because yeah, the explicit version was pretty vile. No, I was not a hip teenager.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:33 PM on August 21, 2015


« Older Zozobra, making Santa Fe's fiesta celebrations...   |   Well I have a pigeon, Lucas Don Velour Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments