Lettuce is a vehicle to transport refrigerated water from farm to table.
August 24, 2015 12:42 PM Subscribe
Why salad is so overrated
There’s one food, though, that has almost nothing going for it. It occupies precious crop acreage, requires fossil fuels to be shipped, refrigerated, around the world, and adds nothing but crunch to the plate. It’s salad, and here are three main reasons why we need to rethink it.
Why Your Salad Obsession Could Be Hurting The Planet
Do you like salad? You're a fool
There’s one food, though, that has almost nothing going for it. It occupies precious crop acreage, requires fossil fuels to be shipped, refrigerated, around the world, and adds nothing but crunch to the plate. It’s salad, and here are three main reasons why we need to rethink it.
Why Your Salad Obsession Could Be Hurting The Planet
Do you like salad? You're a fool
Eat nothing. Not too much. Mostly nothing.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:49 PM on August 24, 2015 [189 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:49 PM on August 24, 2015 [189 favorites]
From the first link: salad vegetables are pitifully low in nutrition
Well duh, that's why you smother them with cheese.
Is cheese ok, or are we destroying the planet by eating cheese too? 'Cause if so, we might as well just goodbye to Mother Earth right now, because Harvarti is more important than air.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [27 favorites]
Well duh, that's why you smother them with cheese.
Is cheese ok, or are we destroying the planet by eating cheese too? 'Cause if so, we might as well just goodbye to Mother Earth right now, because Harvarti is more important than air.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [27 favorites]
Around the world? Almost all the US' lettuce & salad greens production comes from the Salinas Valley in California. It grows year-round and generally goes from field to store in a week or so. Now, if you live in Canada or Japan, yeah, you're killing the planet eating greens outside the month a year they grow locally.
posted by GuyZero at 12:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 12:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is the same California that is currently experiencing a record drought, no?
posted by entropicamericana at 12:52 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:52 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
Almonds, for their water use. Corn, for the monoculture. Beef, for its greenhouse gases. In each of those cases, there’s some truth in the finger-pointing, but none of them is a clear-cut villain.
What? How so? What would it take for them to qualify as "clear-cut villains"? Is this just WaPo weasel-speak for "these are the sectors of the ag lobby we're afraid of pissing off"?
posted by kagredon at 12:52 PM on August 24, 2015 [17 favorites]
What? How so? What would it take for them to qualify as "clear-cut villains"? Is this just WaPo weasel-speak for "these are the sectors of the ag lobby we're afraid of pissing off"?
posted by kagredon at 12:52 PM on August 24, 2015 [17 favorites]
Iceberg lettuce doused in a cup of ranch dressing isn't nutritious?
Buying things unnecessarily packaged in plastic isn't good?!
Shipping fresh vegetables around the world isn't good?
Omg. How am I supposed to have a salad without these things. Salads must be TERRIBLE.
posted by entropone at 12:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
Buying things unnecessarily packaged in plastic isn't good?!
Shipping fresh vegetables around the world isn't good?
Omg. How am I supposed to have a salad without these things. Salads must be TERRIBLE.
posted by entropone at 12:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
Awww, fiddlesticks.
Salad is tasty and I feel better when I eat some leaves. Also, it is one of the few things that reliably grows where I live, a delightful place in most respects but one which can only be described as an arid hellscape from the perspective of an honest gardener.
posted by brennen at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Salad is tasty and I feel better when I eat some leaves. Also, it is one of the few things that reliably grows where I live, a delightful place in most respects but one which can only be described as an arid hellscape from the perspective of an honest gardener.
posted by brennen at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Salad =/= iceberg lettuce.
Lettuce is a vehicle to transport refrigerated water from farm to table. When we switch to vegetables that are twice as nutritious — like those collards or tomatoes or green beans — not only do we free up half the acres now growing lettuce, we cut back on the fossil fuels and other resources needed for transport and storage.
Oh wait, you sort of note that in your article, but then you go back to your Freakonomics-esque attempt to blow our minds by telling us this non-intuitive fact is actually totally correct. Let's talk about
To be fair, “leafy vegetables,” the CDC category, also includes cabbage, spinach and other kinds of greens, but the reason the category dominates is that the greens are often eaten raw.
Yeah, those.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2015 [27 favorites]
Lettuce is a vehicle to transport refrigerated water from farm to table. When we switch to vegetables that are twice as nutritious — like those collards or tomatoes or green beans — not only do we free up half the acres now growing lettuce, we cut back on the fossil fuels and other resources needed for transport and storage.
Oh wait, you sort of note that in your article, but then you go back to your Freakonomics-esque attempt to blow our minds by telling us this non-intuitive fact is actually totally correct. Let's talk about
To be fair, “leafy vegetables,” the CDC category, also includes cabbage, spinach and other kinds of greens, but the reason the category dominates is that the greens are often eaten raw.
Yeah, those.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:54 PM on August 24, 2015 [27 favorites]
I think the problem with salads is the idea that they should contain lettuce.
posted by piyushnz at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by piyushnz at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [34 favorites]
I'm confused.
Is this about iceberg lettuce only?
Because my understanding is that dark/red leaf salads contain quite a few nutrients. Not a whole lot of calories but other stuff like vitamins and minerals etc.
I mean I get the water related concerns but the nutrition aspect is confusing me.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [22 favorites]
Is this about iceberg lettuce only?
Because my understanding is that dark/red leaf salads contain quite a few nutrients. Not a whole lot of calories but other stuff like vitamins and minerals etc.
I mean I get the water related concerns but the nutrition aspect is confusing me.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [22 favorites]
Pretty much everything most of us do is destroying the planet. That's kind of the problem with capitalism.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [62 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [62 favorites]
At this point, these sort of articles seem to exist to make everyone feel bad about eating anything.
posted by Kitteh at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [26 favorites]
This article is so disingenuous I can't even. The level of engagement here is pretty clear from the "lolyummybacon" comment at the very end.
posted by threeants at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by threeants at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [17 favorites]
We're having a salad for dinner tonight. Just mixed greens with some spinach. None of that iceberg crap. That shit is definitely devil's work. How anyone can go to a restaurant and happily pay $10+ for a wedge of iceberg with some runny blue-cheese dribbled over it, is beyond me. Iceberg fields should be nuked from orbit.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Hey, ease up, Existential Dread... The author didn't even use the phrase "turns out" once!
posted by entropicamericana at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is no doubt in my mind that this conspiracy against iceberg lettuce was started by kale.
posted by HuronBob at 12:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 12:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [14 favorites]
Author hates fiber.
posted by Ferreous at 12:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 12:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
Ok, Internet, you've tried to make me feel bad for the books and music I like. You've picked on my for liking a bunch of TV shows, shows that everyone liked five years ago but now you're writing articles telling me I should feel bad for ever having liked them. You tell me I'm dumb for the clothes I wear. You've come up with lists of reasons why everything I've ever enjoyed is actually stupid.
Now you want me to feel bad for liking... salad?
Ok, that's it, Internet. I want you to listen very carefully to what I have to say:
Go fuck yourself, Internet. I'm just gonna like what I like.
posted by bondcliff at 12:58 PM on August 24, 2015 [98 favorites]
Now you want me to feel bad for liking... salad?
Ok, that's it, Internet. I want you to listen very carefully to what I have to say:
Go fuck yourself, Internet. I'm just gonna like what I like.
posted by bondcliff at 12:58 PM on August 24, 2015 [98 favorites]
Four of the five lowest-ranking foods (by serving size) are salad ingredients: cucumbers, radishes, lettuce and celery. (The fifth is eggplant.)
I'm eating eggplant for dinner tonight, with pasta and pesto and you have no idea how I cling to that eggplant and basil (basil is a leafy green, right?) to tell myself this is an actual meal worthy of being eaten. Please do not take eggplant from me. It's a vegetable. Screw you! It's a vegetable. And basil is a vegetable and tea is a vegetable and corn is a vegetable, and lettuce is a vegetable, but iceberg lettuce is yucky and romaine is better.
In conclusion: I'm eating vegetables. What do you want from me??? Shut up.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm eating eggplant for dinner tonight, with pasta and pesto and you have no idea how I cling to that eggplant and basil (basil is a leafy green, right?) to tell myself this is an actual meal worthy of being eaten. Please do not take eggplant from me. It's a vegetable. Screw you! It's a vegetable. And basil is a vegetable and tea is a vegetable and corn is a vegetable, and lettuce is a vegetable, but iceberg lettuce is yucky and romaine is better.
In conclusion: I'm eating vegetables. What do you want from me??? Shut up.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
On preview: Kale is also delicious. However, not as a juice. WTF is wrong with people? I don't care how much pear juice you dilute it with; kale is not meant to be juiced. Kale is meant to be slathered in BBQ flavour powder and dehydrated, or massaged with oil and placed in salad. Not juice. Not smoothies.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Iceberg lettuce is garbage food eaten by garbage people. Bitter greens, a little cheese, a little nut, some vinagarette, maybe a pear slice or two--that's good eating.
posted by Chrischris at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrischris at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh no shit, bagged iceberg lettuce is wasteful and bad. People put unhealthy toppings and dressings on salad? I HAD NO FUCKING IDEA WOW.
maybe we should stop thinking about salad as a wholesome staple, and start thinking about it as a resource-hungry luxury.
Hey, online content producers: you can swap the word "salad" out for any other consumer good -- hell, any other noun -- and come up with a thinkpiece that will probably get enough shares and pageviews to keep your job alive for another day.
I fucking love salads.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [19 favorites]
maybe we should stop thinking about salad as a wholesome staple, and start thinking about it as a resource-hungry luxury.
Hey, online content producers: you can swap the word "salad" out for any other consumer good -- hell, any other noun -- and come up with a thinkpiece that will probably get enough shares and pageviews to keep your job alive for another day.
I fucking love salads.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [19 favorites]
The thing is you can eat local salad greens, fresh from the garden (as long as you aren't limiting yourself to just lettuce), for a good part of the year almost everywhere. Here in Canada at a quite chilly 1200m, we have no problem having fresh greens for 7+ months.
Around the world? Almost all the US' lettuce & salad greens production comes from the Salinas Valley in California. It grows year-round and generally goes from field to store in a week or so. Now, if you live in Canada or Japan, yeah, you're killing the planet eating greens outside the month a year they grow locally.
Well, most of Canada's population is as close or closer to California as New York City is, so that's kind of a ridiculous statement. Of course, more local production would be better.
posted by ssg at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Around the world? Almost all the US' lettuce & salad greens production comes from the Salinas Valley in California. It grows year-round and generally goes from field to store in a week or so. Now, if you live in Canada or Japan, yeah, you're killing the planet eating greens outside the month a year they grow locally.
Well, most of Canada's population is as close or closer to California as New York City is, so that's kind of a ridiculous statement. Of course, more local production would be better.
posted by ssg at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Things I can eat without feeling guilty about it:
beef
quinoa
seafood
nuts
salad
cats(?)
posted by backseatpilot at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2015 [26 favorites]
quinoa
seafood
nuts
salad
cats(?)
posted by backseatpilot at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2015 [26 favorites]
Y'know, your being alive is just terrible for the planet.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2015 [23 favorites]
I fucking love salads.
Now, this is a clickbait facebook page I can get behind.
Ok, that's it, Internet. I want you to listen very carefully to what I have to say:
Go fuck yourself, Internet. I'm just gonna like what I like.
Our little baby's all growns up!
posted by Existential Dread at 1:04 PM on August 24, 2015
Now, this is a clickbait facebook page I can get behind.
Ok, that's it, Internet. I want you to listen very carefully to what I have to say:
Go fuck yourself, Internet. I'm just gonna like what I like.
Our little baby's all growns up!
posted by Existential Dread at 1:04 PM on August 24, 2015
Yeah, this is a weird article. Basically, anything we consume in terms of both food & goods is being produced and shipped. In general, we aren't aware of what the costs/inputs of that production and shipping are, and that can make it hard to make good (environmentally responsible & ethical) decisions about our consumption habits in terms of economic and environmental impact.
Feels like another "just by existing you're fucking everything up" articles, part N of a series designed to discourage and de-motivate the public from tackling any change, rather than educate and encourage people to explore their choices.
posted by nubs at 1:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
Feels like another "just by existing you're fucking everything up" articles, part N of a series designed to discourage and de-motivate the public from tackling any change, rather than educate and encourage people to explore their choices.
posted by nubs at 1:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
I made fattoush this weekend because of the Greek salad thread and god damn if I'm not going to make another one tonight just to spite the hacks who think telling me YOU KNOW CUCUMBERS ARE MOSTLY WATER is some kind of burn
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:09 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:09 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
I can't believe I'm the first to mention my mother's favorite nutritional word: ROUGHAGE!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:09 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:09 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
I just made a salad and then came here to catch up on metafilter.
It's chilling now - tomatoes, basil, feta and arugula smothered in olive oil.
This is wrong?
I love salad.
posted by parki at 1:10 PM on August 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's chilling now - tomatoes, basil, feta and arugula smothered in olive oil.
This is wrong?
I love salad.
posted by parki at 1:10 PM on August 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
Things I can eat without feeling guilty about it:
beef
quinoa
seafood
nuts
salad
cats(?)
I'm so sorry.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
beef
quinoa
seafood
nuts
salad
cats(?)
I'm so sorry.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
YOU KNOW CUCUMBERS ARE MOSTLY WATER
"You know you are, too, right? And I'm feeling... a mighty powerful thirst right now."
posted by backseatpilot at 1:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [22 favorites]
"You know you are, too, right? And I'm feeling... a mighty powerful thirst right now."
posted by backseatpilot at 1:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [22 favorites]
Do you like salad? You're a fool
Although I do like salad and I am probably a fool, I claim that there is no causal relationship between these two.
posted by jeather at 1:12 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Although I do like salad and I am probably a fool, I claim that there is no causal relationship between these two.
posted by jeather at 1:12 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well, there's only one ethical solution: Soylent Green.
Soylent Green: Eat The Problem Away (TM)
(that said, try to stop me from going on a mostly-salad based diet next month as an experiment. )
posted by lmfsilva at 1:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Soylent Green: Eat The Problem Away (TM)
(that said, try to stop me from going on a mostly-salad based diet next month as an experiment. )
posted by lmfsilva at 1:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah like... vegetables are mostly water SHOCK HORROR right? Protip, idiot clickbaity writer: we need water to survive, and having a salad hits a 1-2 punch of water AND nutrients omg.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
Woman ranting alone at salad.
posted by Kabanos at 1:15 PM on August 24, 2015 [41 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 1:15 PM on August 24, 2015 [41 favorites]
Woman ranting alone at salad.
I was just thinking - the women aren't laughing.
They are cackling. Maniacally.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was just thinking - the women aren't laughing.
They are cackling. Maniacally.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do you like salad? You're a fool
Wait... you didn't give me time to answer...
posted by history_denier at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
Wait... you didn't give me time to answer...
posted by history_denier at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
If salad is really this bad maybe it will become edgy, subversive and "cool". We'll start seeing high-school kids underneath the bleachers after school gets out, eating salads. Or maybe they just buy one salad and everyone takes a bite or two and passes it. A man can dream.
posted by DrAmerica at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by DrAmerica at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2015 [16 favorites]
So am I a worse person for eating salad or kale? Hard to keep up.
posted by kjs3 at 1:26 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by kjs3 at 1:26 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
bruh
bruh I got the red leaf check it
check how dank this red leaf lettuce is
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2015 [26 favorites]
bruh I got the red leaf check it
check how dank this red leaf lettuce is
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2015 [26 favorites]
Do you like salad? You're a fool
This sounds like dinner conversation with the Russian uncle I don't have.
posted by maryr at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2015 [15 favorites]
This sounds like dinner conversation with the Russian uncle I don't have.
posted by maryr at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2015 [15 favorites]
Ignored is the water footprint – the amount of water required to produce each kind of food (as opposed to it's water content).
Average water footprint per pound of:
Lettuce -- 15 gallons;
Tomatoes -- 22 gallons;
Cabbage -- 24 gallons;
Cucumber -- 28 gallons;
Potatoes -- 30 gallons;
Oranges -- 55 gallons;
Apples -- 83 gallons;
Bananas -- 102 gallons;
Corn -- 107 gallons;
Peaches or Nectarines -- 142 gallons;
Wheat Bread -- 154 gallons;
Mango -- 190 gallons;
Avocado -- 220 gallons;
Tofu -- 244 gallons;
Groundnuts -- 368 gallons;
Rice -- 403 gallons;
Olives -- 522 gallons;
Eggs -- 573 gallons;
Chicken -- 815 gallons;
Cheese -- 896 gallons;
Pork -- 1630 gallons;
Butter -- 2044 gallons;
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons;
Chocolate -- 2847 gallons;
From treehugger.com citing a waterfootprint.org report.
posted by Kabanos at 1:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [56 favorites]
Average water footprint per pound of:
Lettuce -- 15 gallons;
Tomatoes -- 22 gallons;
Cabbage -- 24 gallons;
Cucumber -- 28 gallons;
Potatoes -- 30 gallons;
Oranges -- 55 gallons;
Apples -- 83 gallons;
Bananas -- 102 gallons;
Corn -- 107 gallons;
Peaches or Nectarines -- 142 gallons;
Wheat Bread -- 154 gallons;
Mango -- 190 gallons;
Avocado -- 220 gallons;
Tofu -- 244 gallons;
Groundnuts -- 368 gallons;
Rice -- 403 gallons;
Olives -- 522 gallons;
Eggs -- 573 gallons;
Chicken -- 815 gallons;
Cheese -- 896 gallons;
Pork -- 1630 gallons;
Butter -- 2044 gallons;
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons;
Chocolate -- 2847 gallons;
From treehugger.com citing a waterfootprint.org report.
posted by Kabanos at 1:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [56 favorites]
Iceberg lettuce has nearly zero appreciable fiber. It is a scourge
posted by aydeejones at 1:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by aydeejones at 1:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Eats homemade kale chips, sips green juice and kale smoothie
posted by aydeejones at 1:32 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by aydeejones at 1:32 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't much like salad greens (I like my leafy greens cooked, thanks), but I do love cucumber and tomatoes and radishes.
I like the texture of iceberg lettuce, though. But usually I can't justify buying it.
posted by that girl at 1:33 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I like the texture of iceberg lettuce, though. But usually I can't justify buying it.
posted by that girl at 1:33 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also people who lump these articles in with some greater conspiracy of how "the Internet" tries to make them feel bad must not know exactly what the Internet is or how individual separate actors say things on it without a shared agenda
posted by aydeejones at 1:34 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by aydeejones at 1:34 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
nice try, Internet
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [25 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [25 favorites]
or maybe people are making a joke about The Internet which is a different conceptual thing than the internet
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [15 favorites]
Kale is fine in juice and smoothies BTW. Totally excellent, it's about what else you bring to the party (berries etc) and having good overpriced affluenza blenders and such
posted by aydeejones at 1:36 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by aydeejones at 1:36 PM on August 24, 2015
There is no Internet anymore, there is no monolith. Been using it since 93 and there was a time when it was. /bows out
posted by aydeejones at 1:39 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by aydeejones at 1:39 PM on August 24, 2015
only on mefi can eating salad be considered an act of defiance
STRAIGHT OUTTA CAULIFLOWER
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:39 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
STRAIGHT OUTTA CAULIFLOWER
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:39 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
Spinach any way you like. Broccoli carrots radish in its arms. Tomato lettuce not forget.
posted by little eiffel at 1:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by little eiffel at 1:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is no Internet anymore, there is no monolith.
thatsthejoke.gif
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
thatsthejoke.gif
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Pretty much everything most of us do is destroying the planet. That's kind of the problem with capitalism thermodynamics.
FTFY
posted by acb at 1:43 PM on August 24, 2015 [15 favorites]
FTFY
posted by acb at 1:43 PM on August 24, 2015 [15 favorites]
Also salad is not conducive to the formation of new human relationships.
posted by w0mbat at 1:44 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by w0mbat at 1:44 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
There is no Internet anymore, there is no monolith. Been using it since 93 and there was a time when it was.
And yet you've somehow never come across humor before?
posted by bondcliff at 1:44 PM on August 24, 2015 [10 favorites]
And yet you've somehow never come across humor before?
posted by bondcliff at 1:44 PM on August 24, 2015 [10 favorites]
also if we're playing that game the first time I was online was 1991 so
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:46 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:46 PM on August 24, 2015
Do you like salad? You're a fool
This sounds like dinner conversation with the Russian uncle I don't have.
“Lettuce is for rabbits!”
– my father (a Polish gentleman very much of the old school)
posted by acb at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
This sounds like dinner conversation with the Russian uncle I don't have.
“Lettuce is for rabbits!”
– my father (a Polish gentleman very much of the old school)
posted by acb at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
This article is so disingenuous I can't even.
That's pretty much the whole Washington Post these days.
posted by blucevalo at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's pretty much the whole Washington Post these days.
posted by blucevalo at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't care. I don't fucking care. I do not care not one fucking bit im gonna fuck a cabbage right now and no one can stop me not even MY CABBAGES a:tla man
seriously all these articles about THIS FOOD IS DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE only make me want to eat only that one food for the rest of my life
i will eat what the fuck ever i want and not feel a shred of guilt BRING ME MY GOOSE LIVERS AND ORTOLAN AND TINY PRECIOUS VEALS BRING ME A TOMATO PICKED BY A CHILD
posted by poffin boffin at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [16 favorites]
seriously all these articles about THIS FOOD IS DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE only make me want to eat only that one food for the rest of my life
i will eat what the fuck ever i want and not feel a shred of guilt BRING ME MY GOOSE LIVERS AND ORTOLAN AND TINY PRECIOUS VEALS BRING ME A TOMATO PICKED BY A CHILD
posted by poffin boffin at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [16 favorites]
There is no Internet anymore, there is no monolith.
The Internet is more monolithic now than it has ever been before.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015
The Internet is more monolithic now than it has ever been before.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2015
STRAIGHT OUTTA CAULIFLOWER
Is a dressing that'll smother your romaine
And make you forget about chow mein
Dangerous cruciferous vegetable
And if I ever want snacks, I bake kale
See I don't give a fuck, that's the problem
I see some motherfucking beets, I don't dodge them
But I'm smart, let them roast a while
And when I add some goat cheese, I smile
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [23 favorites]
Is a dressing that'll smother your romaine
And make you forget about chow mein
Dangerous cruciferous vegetable
And if I ever want snacks, I bake kale
See I don't give a fuck, that's the problem
I see some motherfucking beets, I don't dodge them
But I'm smart, let them roast a while
And when I add some goat cheese, I smile
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [23 favorites]
The WaPo's first bullet point is that "Salad vegetables are pitifully low in nutrition" and their second is "Salad fools dieters into making bad choices?" That's a bit disingenuous, to rant about the meager caloric content of salad, only to turn heel and lambaste people who do something about that flaw. This piece doesn't just hate salad, it hates the entire concept of salad.
posted by Panjandrum at 1:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 1:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
also if we're playing that game the first time I was online was 1991 so
Guys, guys, let's settle down and go have a nice salad together.
posted by nubs at 1:49 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Guys, guys, let's settle down and go have a nice salad together.
posted by nubs at 1:49 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Look, if we don't stop this derail about The Internet the mods are gonna come in and holler at us in small bracketed fonts and nobody wants that. Especially not ME.
So eat your planet-destroying salad and stop arguing about The Internet.
posted by bondcliff at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
So eat your planet-destroying salad and stop arguing about The Internet.
posted by bondcliff at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
seriously all these articles about THIS FOOD IS DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE only make me want to eat only that one food for the rest of my life
I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species. I wanted to open the dump valves on oil tankers and smother all the French beaches I'd never see. I wanted to breathe smoke.posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
These numbers are all really regional. Producing lettuce or beef with non-irrigated feed/pasture in a wet region is hardly water intensive at all. It's irrigated crops that are the issue.
posted by melissam at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by melissam at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
i want to eat beef from cows that live in spacious new-build apartments in san francisco and drive up housing prices just THAT MUCH MORE
posted by poffin boffin at 1:52 PM on August 24, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 1:52 PM on August 24, 2015 [21 favorites]
Oh yes. It is the individual likes and dislikes, and the individual purchases informed by those likes and dislikes that is the problem, not the race to the bottom that modern capitalist agribusiness promotes.
Gotcha.
Excuse me, but I have to tend to this cart I have that isn't properly before the horse.
posted by clvrmnky at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Gotcha.
Excuse me, but I have to tend to this cart I have that isn't properly before the horse.
posted by clvrmnky at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's like people don't read the article. Surely I have never commented without reading the article! But still:
Which doesn’t mean that the right salad can’t be a good choice for a nutritious meal. It just means that it’s easy to get snookered.
And so on. The article isn't saying that salads are intrinsically wrong. It is saying that the actual salads that many people eat are terrible salads without redeeming features. If you eat a dark, leafy salad with green beans and collards which isn't nothing but a giant block of iceberg lettuce slathered in creamy dressing and other garbage then the article isn't talking about you.
#notallsalads
posted by Justinian at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Which doesn’t mean that the right salad can’t be a good choice for a nutritious meal. It just means that it’s easy to get snookered.
And so on. The article isn't saying that salads are intrinsically wrong. It is saying that the actual salads that many people eat are terrible salads without redeeming features. If you eat a dark, leafy salad with green beans and collards which isn't nothing but a giant block of iceberg lettuce slathered in creamy dressing and other garbage then the article isn't talking about you.
#notallsalads
posted by Justinian at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
the amount of water required to produce each kind of food
That water goes into the ground, right? Let's say it is used in California where 99 percent of the non-corn plant foods that I like are grown. Is that water gone forever into the salty ocean or is it put back into the water cycle and reused? Some of each?
posted by soelo at 1:54 PM on August 24, 2015
That water goes into the ground, right? Let's say it is used in California where 99 percent of the non-corn plant foods that I like are grown. Is that water gone forever into the salty ocean or is it put back into the water cycle and reused? Some of each?
posted by soelo at 1:54 PM on August 24, 2015
#notallsalads
Ethics in greens journalism?
posted by nubs at 1:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ethics in greens journalism?
posted by nubs at 1:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
acb, I dithered over whether the salad-hate was more appropriate for a fake Russian or Polish uncle. I also considered Hungarian, but decide that the Hungarians would probably appreciate a well done light arugula salad, maybe with some apricots.
posted by maryr at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maryr at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
From Wikipedia: Lettuce has mild narcotic properties – it was called "sleepwort" by the Anglo-Saxons because of this attribute – although the cultivated L. sativa has lower levels of the narcotic than its wild cousins.[52] This narcotic effect is a property of two sesquiterpene lactones which are found in the white liquid (latex) in the stems of lettuce,[29] called lactucarium or "lettuce opium".
um lettuce is awesome
posted by en forme de poire at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
um lettuce is awesome
posted by en forme de poire at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
If you eat a dark, leafy salad with green beans and collards
i will bleed from my butt. that is what will happen.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
i will bleed from my butt. that is what will happen.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
sesquiterpene lactones
brb registering sockpuppet
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
brb registering sockpuppet
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
I note that the picture at the top of the WaPo article involves salads from Cheesecake Factory, Chilis, and California Pizza Kitchen which should provide some guidance as to the sorts of things to which the link is referring.
posted by Justinian at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by Justinian at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2015
well done light arugula salad, maybe with some apricots
mmmm, that is delicious. Definitely on the menu for tomorrow
posted by mumimor at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
mmmm, that is delicious. Definitely on the menu for tomorrow
posted by mumimor at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
i will bleed from my butt. that is what will happen.
Ok, I am officially off salad now.
posted by bondcliff at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2015
Ok, I am officially off salad now.
posted by bondcliff at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2015
Are you sure that isn't just the color from the beets, poffin boffin?
posted by maryr at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by maryr at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
when i am god emperor cruciferous vegetables will be BANNED
posted by poffin boffin at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
What you don't realize is that the hidden benefit of iceberg is that you can roll a head of lettuce out into the yard -- underhand, like a bowling ball -- and your chickens will go racing after it, squealing with delight, until it comes to a rest and they catch up with it and begin to devour the thing, amid a spray of lettuce-water, not stopping until there is left only the tiny little bits of lettuce that are clinging to the feathers on their wet little faces. So the problem isn't that people are eating too much salad, it's that not enough people are keeping chickens.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [68 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [68 favorites]
can I just have all the brussels and roasted cauliflower pls
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
mudpuppie, we're going to need a video.
posted by maryr at 2:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by maryr at 2:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
when i am god emperor cruciferous vegetables will be BANNED
can I just have all the brussels and roasted cauliflower pls
And I'll take the broccoli crowns, eaten raw with blue cheese dressing.
WAPO: That dressing isn't good for you!
PBO'S MOM: And all the nutrients are in the stem!
I'M AN ADULT I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO EITHER OF YOU
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:05 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
can I just have all the brussels and roasted cauliflower pls
And I'll take the broccoli crowns, eaten raw with blue cheese dressing.
WAPO: That dressing isn't good for you!
PBO'S MOM: And all the nutrients are in the stem!
I'M AN ADULT I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO EITHER OF YOU
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:05 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
I read exactly 3 grafs into that mess at one of the links, and it made no effort to provide a nuanced argument beyond "your personal choices are ruining everything".
So, it's like someone didn't even consider that many of us don't waste our lives with link bait.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015
So, it's like someone didn't even consider that many of us don't waste our lives with link bait.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015
You know what I hate? I hate all the clickbait-y articles about how You're Doing It Wrong! A salad made of mostly vegetables, lightly dressed (*not* the abominable fat-free goop, not the viscous creamy goop, but some good oil, a little vinegar, maybe herbs, garlic, and applied sparingly) is a delicious and healthy food. Leave me alone.
posted by theora55 at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
If only I had a penguin...: "corn is a vegetable"
Maize is a grain. Strange but true.
posted by boo_radley at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maize is a grain. Strange but true.
posted by boo_radley at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Broc stems, julienned, make a gorgeously crunchy salad. Or in slaw.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Of course, the actual problem is not what people (and chickens) are doing but how many people are doing it. (Sometimes with chickens, I hear.) Too many people doing too much of what people are wont to do, like having more people who want more and more lettuce, is the problem.
The cure (and The Cure, for fuck's sake) is birth control. Everyone everywhere needs lots and lots of birth control. Pass it out with heads of lettuce. Demonstrate it in your chosen house of worship. Too much money is spent on death control and not nearly enough on birth control.
posted by pracowity at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
The cure (and The Cure, for fuck's sake) is birth control. Everyone everywhere needs lots and lots of birth control. Pass it out with heads of lettuce. Demonstrate it in your chosen house of worship. Too much money is spent on death control and not nearly enough on birth control.
posted by pracowity at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
not the viscous creamy goop, but some good oil, a little vinegar, maybe herbs, garlic, and applied sparingly
Creamy goop is made exactly the same as vinaigrette, with an egg yolk added. Protein!
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Creamy goop is made exactly the same as vinaigrette, with an egg yolk added. Protein!
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
That water goes into the ground, right? Let's say it is used in California where 99 percent of the non-corn plant foods that I like are grown. Is that water gone forever into the salty ocean or is it put back into the water cycle and reused? Some of each?
I think I've heard that about 50% of California fresh water ends up out to sea? But note that flowing into the ocean is part of the water cycle. The problem is that fresh water, once underground or in the ocean, can take years/decades/centuries/etc. to cycle back into freshwater glaciers, lakes, or other reservoirs.
So the concern is not that we're removing water completely out of the water cycle somehow, but that we're depleting the freshwater step of the cycle far faster than it can be replenished.
posted by Kabanos at 2:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think I've heard that about 50% of California fresh water ends up out to sea? But note that flowing into the ocean is part of the water cycle. The problem is that fresh water, once underground or in the ocean, can take years/decades/centuries/etc. to cycle back into freshwater glaciers, lakes, or other reservoirs.
So the concern is not that we're removing water completely out of the water cycle somehow, but that we're depleting the freshwater step of the cycle far faster than it can be replenished.
posted by Kabanos at 2:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Cabbage is a vegetable, makes it alright . . .
Call and they'll come to you covered with dew
Vegetables dream of responding to you
Standing there shiny and proud by your side
Holding your hand while the neighbors decide
Why is a vegetable something to hide?
posted by Herodios at 2:14 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
wait i thought the whites are protein though, the yolk are just PRECIOUS GOLD DELICIOUSNESS
posted by poffin boffin at 2:14 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by poffin boffin at 2:14 PM on August 24, 2015
Everyone everywhere needs lots and lots of birth control. Pass it out with heads of lettuce.
Guys, I have this great idea for my new agritech start up. We'll really get women laughing about salads. GMO and birth control where can we go wrong?
posted by maryr at 2:15 PM on August 24, 2015
Guys, I have this great idea for my new agritech start up. We'll really get women laughing about salads. GMO and birth control where can we go wrong?
posted by maryr at 2:15 PM on August 24, 2015
> Average water footprint per pound of:
Lettuce -- 15 gallons;
Potatoes -- 30 gallons;
Bananas -- 102 gallons;
Olives -- 522 gallons;
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons;
Chocolate -- 2847 gallons;
Yabbut there are very few recipes where those are interchangeable.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Lettuce -- 15 gallons;
Potatoes -- 30 gallons;
Bananas -- 102 gallons;
Olives -- 522 gallons;
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons;
Chocolate -- 2847 gallons;
Yabbut there are very few recipes where those are interchangeable.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yabbut there are very few recipes where those are interchangeable.
I would substitute Beef for any of the others. I suspect there are people who would say the same of chocolate. It's probably all that extra water that makes those two so versatile.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:21 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would substitute Beef for any of the others. I suspect there are people who would say the same of chocolate. It's probably all that extra water that makes those two so versatile.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:21 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
The leafy green stuff in salad is just the substrate for the bacon, olives, pickles, bacon, hot peppers, croutons, bacon, carrots, celery, bacon, cheese, chicken, bacon, and salad dressing.
posted by Blackanvil at 2:22 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Blackanvil at 2:22 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I only read the chicagoist article because I support only the *istverse
posted by poffin boffin at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by poffin boffin at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2015
So much hate for iceberg.
Iceberg wedge isn't really a salad as it is a substrate for chunky blue cheese dressing, bacon, green onions, radishes, bacon, and blue cheese crumbles.
Done right, a wedge salad is a thing of glory.
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
Iceberg wedge isn't really a salad as it is a substrate for chunky blue cheese dressing, bacon, green onions, radishes, bacon, and blue cheese crumbles.
Done right, a wedge salad is a thing of glory.
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
Ignored is the water footprint – the amount of water required to produce each kind of food (as opposed to it's water content).
Weight is a poor metric to use to compare foods. Here are some of those with the amount of calories in a pound of food:
Lettuce -- 15 gallons; (68 calories)
Tomatoes -- 22 gallons; (109 calories)
Cabbage -- 24 gallons; (113 calories)
Cucumber -- 28 gallons; (68 calories)
Potatoes -- 30 gallons; (332 calories)
Oranges -- 55 gallons; (197 calories)
Apples -- 83 gallons; (236 calories)
Bananas -- 102 gallons; (384 calories)
Corn -- 107 gallons; (390 calories)
Wheat Bread -- 154 gallons; (1211 calories)
Avocado -- 220 gallons; (726 calories)
Tofu -- 244 gallons; (402 calories)
Rice -- 403 gallons; (1613 calories)
Eggs -- 573 gallons; (648 calories)
Chicken -- 815 gallons; (780 calories)
Butter -- 2044 gallons; (3252 calories)
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons; (1334 calories)
And that's part of the author's point. You need 15 gallons to get a tiny amount of nutrition for lettuce. It's roughly four gallons per calorie, whereas chicken is more like one gallon per calorie. Certainly, there's more to nutrition than calories, but it's a way more relevant metric than weight.
posted by chrchr at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
Weight is a poor metric to use to compare foods. Here are some of those with the amount of calories in a pound of food:
Lettuce -- 15 gallons; (68 calories)
Tomatoes -- 22 gallons; (109 calories)
Cabbage -- 24 gallons; (113 calories)
Cucumber -- 28 gallons; (68 calories)
Potatoes -- 30 gallons; (332 calories)
Oranges -- 55 gallons; (197 calories)
Apples -- 83 gallons; (236 calories)
Bananas -- 102 gallons; (384 calories)
Corn -- 107 gallons; (390 calories)
Wheat Bread -- 154 gallons; (1211 calories)
Avocado -- 220 gallons; (726 calories)
Tofu -- 244 gallons; (402 calories)
Rice -- 403 gallons; (1613 calories)
Eggs -- 573 gallons; (648 calories)
Chicken -- 815 gallons; (780 calories)
Butter -- 2044 gallons; (3252 calories)
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons; (1334 calories)
And that's part of the author's point. You need 15 gallons to get a tiny amount of nutrition for lettuce. It's roughly four gallons per calorie, whereas chicken is more like one gallon per calorie. Certainly, there's more to nutrition than calories, but it's a way more relevant metric than weight.
posted by chrchr at 2:23 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
decides to have salad for lunch after all ...
posted by philip-random at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by philip-random at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2015
...I don't think lettuce is a substrate.
posted by maryr at 2:26 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 2:26 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does gazpacho count as salad or is it only a soup? Because I have been craving some lately and it seems like a nice cool way to eat some salady vegetables without the troublesome lettuce.
posted by TedW at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by TedW at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
. . . and I mixed up the numerator and the denominator. Please ignore the last paragraph of my previous comment, but please enjoy the data that I gathered by hand. I hope you find it enlightening.
posted by chrchr at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 2:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
and I mixed up the numerator and the denominator
you must exile yourself to orkney and grow a shame beard
posted by poffin boffin at 2:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
you must exile yourself to orkney and grow a shame beard
posted by poffin boffin at 2:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
Previously, MeFites hating/loving salad: Let's face it, leaves are dumb.
*not* the abominable fat-free goop, not the viscous creamy goop, but some good oil, a little vinegar, maybe herbs, garlic, and applied sparingly
Preach! I refused to consider anything called "salad" as food for most of my life, but it turns out that all I really hated were the goopy abominations so regularly given undeserved aid and succor under the umbrella of the phrase "salad dressing." French, Thousand Island, Caesar, Ranch? Gather all the earth's stores of these horrors, pile them into a dumpster, and then strap that shit to a rocket bound for the sun. But olive oil, fresh lemon juice, kosher salt, and fresh cracked pepper? Maybe with a dollop or two of stone-ground mustard? Oh yes.
posted by divined by radio at 2:36 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
*not* the abominable fat-free goop, not the viscous creamy goop, but some good oil, a little vinegar, maybe herbs, garlic, and applied sparingly
Preach! I refused to consider anything called "salad" as food for most of my life, but it turns out that all I really hated were the goopy abominations so regularly given undeserved aid and succor under the umbrella of the phrase "salad dressing." French, Thousand Island, Caesar, Ranch? Gather all the earth's stores of these horrors, pile them into a dumpster, and then strap that shit to a rocket bound for the sun. But olive oil, fresh lemon juice, kosher salt, and fresh cracked pepper? Maybe with a dollop or two of stone-ground mustard? Oh yes.
posted by divined by radio at 2:36 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just hate all the chewing.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm an unrepentant antisaladist, not because salad isn't an okay thing to eat, but largely because I don't make a lot of money and there's a very good reason why you don't see a lot of poor people in love with salad, and it's not the usual elitist hurr durr poor people are stupid—it's incredibly expensive for the amount of nutrition, calories, and satiety it can provide, and it requires constant shopping, meticulous storage, and the fussbudgetiness of managing a zillion little fresh ingredients. So, it's great if folks are living in wealth and can indulge in a cuisine of constant cosmopolitan novelty, but it's definitely not an egalatarian food.
Plus, the shipping water aspect bothers me for the some reason that all shampoo is, for some idiotic reason, not sold in bar form, people idiotically buy water in plastic bottles from Fiji, and how people pay a fortune for canned beans so they can eat mushy beans that don't taste as good as lighter-to-ship dried ones because of laziness. If you're going to compulsively ship things back and forth across the globe on smoky clouds of petrochemicals, at least condense them down a bit.
I eat plenty of greens, though, but from nice little blocks of frozen spinach that I use to make a killer white bean and spinach soup, and lots of assorted vegetables, albeit in vegan chipotle black bean chili form, which is cheap, tastes good, gets better as the batch ages in the fridge, and fuels me through days on the construction site without fits of sudden desperate hunger.
posted by sonascope at 2:41 PM on August 24, 2015 [25 favorites]
Plus, the shipping water aspect bothers me for the some reason that all shampoo is, for some idiotic reason, not sold in bar form, people idiotically buy water in plastic bottles from Fiji, and how people pay a fortune for canned beans so they can eat mushy beans that don't taste as good as lighter-to-ship dried ones because of laziness. If you're going to compulsively ship things back and forth across the globe on smoky clouds of petrochemicals, at least condense them down a bit.
I eat plenty of greens, though, but from nice little blocks of frozen spinach that I use to make a killer white bean and spinach soup, and lots of assorted vegetables, albeit in vegan chipotle black bean chili form, which is cheap, tastes good, gets better as the batch ages in the fridge, and fuels me through days on the construction site without fits of sudden desperate hunger.
posted by sonascope at 2:41 PM on August 24, 2015 [25 favorites]
I thought the whole point of salads was dietary fiber, and that it's food that fills you up and digests slowly? I don't eat a salad for nutrients, I eat a salad with a bit of chicken in it to replace a sandwich with chicken in it. I'm replacing bread with lettuce.
If you want nutrients, that's what the fruits and veg are for.
In other news, don't eat steak for vitamins, don't eat cucumbers for protein, and don't drink milk for the fiber.
posted by musofire at 2:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [16 favorites]
If you want nutrients, that's what the fruits and veg are for.
In other news, don't eat steak for vitamins, don't eat cucumbers for protein, and don't drink milk for the fiber.
posted by musofire at 2:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [16 favorites]
Lettuce is way tastier when it's five minutes old, because you just picked it out of a pot on your back porch, than it is when it's been shipped to you from 500 miles away. Rather than arguing that people give up greens, perhaps the authors might have better served the planet by writing a brief lettuce growing guide.
Also, it maybe wouldn't be a terrible waste of time to try to teach people how to identify the edible greens they probably already have growing by the pound in their backyards, and may in fact be spending lots of time and money foolishly trying to get rid of. Plantain, watercress, dandelion . . .
posted by BlueJae at 2:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, it maybe wouldn't be a terrible waste of time to try to teach people how to identify the edible greens they probably already have growing by the pound in their backyards, and may in fact be spending lots of time and money foolishly trying to get rid of. Plantain, watercress, dandelion . . .
posted by BlueJae at 2:47 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
omg dandelion greens with apple cider vinaigrette GET IN MAH BELLEH
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have nothing to add here except that cucumbers are fucking awesome.
posted by thivaia at 3:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 3:01 PM on August 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
Salad is destroying the planet but the mistreatment, brutal transportation, and half-assed captive-bolting of sentient non-human animals is a-ok! Also, deepwater oil drilling and dumping mine tailings into waterways? It's fine, it's all fine! Washing tiny plastic particles down the drain where they eventually enter the ocean's foodchain? Keep at it! HFCS in literally everything, causing a massive health crisis in the western world? No problemo! JUST STOP EATING SALAD.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
Lettuce is fucking stupid though I agree. And don't even get me started on soapweed i.e. coriander.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:08 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:08 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Such a weird set of articles. I wonder who's buying the WaPo this time!
I can't remember the last time I ate a salad with iceberg lettuce. At Trader Joe's I buy the bag called "Power to the Greens" which is organic baby kale, organic baby chard and organic baby spinach. It's chock-full of nutrients, filling, and very tasty. My go-to lunch is that, a sprinkling or two of microgreens, canned yellowfin or albacore tuna, and a tablespoon of Goddess dressing or olive oil. It's heaven and I could eat it everyday. The idea that this meal is nutritionally useless is very bizarre to me.
I also buy a head of lettuce because lettuce leaves are a good replacement for bread. I never consider it nutritional, but it's replacing a staple that's bad news, so it's a net good for my body.
posted by naju at 3:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't remember the last time I ate a salad with iceberg lettuce. At Trader Joe's I buy the bag called "Power to the Greens" which is organic baby kale, organic baby chard and organic baby spinach. It's chock-full of nutrients, filling, and very tasty. My go-to lunch is that, a sprinkling or two of microgreens, canned yellowfin or albacore tuna, and a tablespoon of Goddess dressing or olive oil. It's heaven and I could eat it everyday. The idea that this meal is nutritionally useless is very bizarre to me.
I also buy a head of lettuce because lettuce leaves are a good replacement for bread. I never consider it nutritional, but it's replacing a staple that's bad news, so it's a net good for my body.
posted by naju at 3:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Years ago, decades ago, a friend was sent a demo tape by some hardcore band one of the songs had the line "I like to eat salad! It's the best!" and she sang it to me over and over with its distinctive phrasing and I've had it stuck in my head all afternoon thanks to this thread.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:12 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:12 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
obligatory
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
traditionally, crops were farmed with human manure so had to be boiled for ten minutes plus to be safe. Salad was raw because you picked it wild in the hedgerows. nowadays, don't you grow your own?
posted by maiamaia at 3:26 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maiamaia at 3:26 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
BRING ME MY GOOSE LIVERS AND ORTOLAN AND TINY PRECIOUS VEALS BRING ME A TOMATO PICKED BY A CHILD
Ewwww, gross!! Who eats goose livers AND ortolan at the same meal?? You call yourself a gourmand?
Y'know what goes good with goose livers? Bacon.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:33 PM on August 24, 2015
Ewwww, gross!! Who eats goose livers AND ortolan at the same meal?? You call yourself a gourmand?
Y'know what goes good with goose livers? Bacon.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:33 PM on August 24, 2015
actually yes a gourmand would eat foie and ortolan at the same meal.
A gourmet might not.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
A gourmet might not.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Lettuce is delicious. Even iceberg. Iceberg has great flavor, and an unbeatable snap to it; there's a reason why the salad in your bento box is probably made with iceberg. I'll eat iceberg lettuce like an apple, crunch crunch crunch. And I won't feel guilty about it. I eat loads of other lettuces and greens as well, don't you worry.
If you want to huddle in your room glugging Soylent and freaking out about your gut bacteria, be my guest. I'm going to enjoy life.
posted by Fnarf at 3:38 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
If you want to huddle in your room glugging Soylent and freaking out about your gut bacteria, be my guest. I'm going to enjoy life.
posted by Fnarf at 3:38 PM on August 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
Also, regarding "unecessary plastic", those plastic thingies of salad greens stay fresh for a really long time, which means no rotted lettuce remains go into the food waste bin. I think that's a good tradeoff.
posted by Fnarf at 3:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Fnarf at 3:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
You really don't win friends with salad.
posted by cell divide at 3:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 3:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
You call yourself a gourmand?
I call myself a comedian?
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:41 PM on August 24, 2015
I call myself a comedian?
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:41 PM on August 24, 2015
I call myself, but usually only when I've sat on my cell phone.
posted by maryr at 3:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by maryr at 3:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
Literally the entire point of why people like lettuce for weight loss is that it adds bulk without calories or a big glycemic bolus. Criticizing it for having few calories per gallon of water seems bizarre to me (and even so it's still way better than steak or bacon on those grounds). This is even more specious because nobody actually tries to get most of their daily calories from iceberg lettuce, whereas people actually do get close to that with meat and dairy, so the absolute amounts people consume are still tiny. The point about foodborne illness is worth knowing about (I seem to have developed OAS so I steam/microwave everything anyway - sorry, this is the one chance I have to be smug about it, you have no idea how much I fucking miss cucumbers and apples) but that seems like more of a problem with the supply chain than an intrinsic problem with eating raw greens.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 3:55 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
cucumbers are the devils tool for causing 3 days of heartburn burps
they too must perish
posted by poffin boffin at 3:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
they too must perish
posted by poffin boffin at 3:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also chiming in with my love of the iceberg. I love them all, all the lettuces, but sometimes only the iceberg will meet my need for a crisp, cool lunch.
I gardened this morning in the 93 degree heat, sweating and then sweating some more in the high humidity. I came in for lunch at 2:30. I was soaking wet so first I had to change clothes. Then I made my daily salad. Today: deli ham, deli turkey, cucumber, red bell pepper, pickled ginger and mayo on shredded iceberg. It was a party in my mouth, an ice cool pool party. I had skipped breakfast so this was the most amazing food I had ever eaten in my life. Aaaaah.
Tomorrow I will make a different salad. Perhaps grilled chicken, baby spinach, jalapenos, pecans, and garlic aioli. Today, however, the iceberg was perfect.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
I gardened this morning in the 93 degree heat, sweating and then sweating some more in the high humidity. I came in for lunch at 2:30. I was soaking wet so first I had to change clothes. Then I made my daily salad. Today: deli ham, deli turkey, cucumber, red bell pepper, pickled ginger and mayo on shredded iceberg. It was a party in my mouth, an ice cool pool party. I had skipped breakfast so this was the most amazing food I had ever eaten in my life. Aaaaah.
Tomorrow I will make a different salad. Perhaps grilled chicken, baby spinach, jalapenos, pecans, and garlic aioli. Today, however, the iceberg was perfect.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
The texture issue reminds me of that horrible thing that restaurant wait staff have taken to saying, "how's everything tasting?" I'm always thinking of saying "well, it tastes great, but the texture makes me want to vomit, and the ambiance enrages me". But I don't, because I am polite. But I do wish they wouldn't say that.
posted by Fnarf at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Fnarf at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
DIRT! THE INTERNET IS TELLING YOU TO EAT DIRT PEOPLE!! DO IT!!! DO IT FOR THE EARTH AND THE CLICK-THROUGH TRAFFIC!!!!
YOUR GOD COMMANDS YOU!!!!!!
posted by octobersurprise at 4:08 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
YOUR GOD COMMANDS YOU!!!!!!
posted by octobersurprise at 4:08 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am guessing that "people who are reading these articles" and "people who are eating iceberg-based salads from Applebee's because they think they are healthy and/or good for the environment" are not demographics that overlap very much.
posted by ernielundquist at 4:27 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ernielundquist at 4:27 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lettuce -- 15 gallons; (68 calories)
Tomatoes -- 22 gallons; (109 calories)
etc.
Most people in industrialized countries get far too many calories, not too few.
So the fact that some foodstuff or other is literally packed with calories isn't necessarily a point in its favor.
posted by flug at 4:36 PM on August 24, 2015
Tomatoes -- 22 gallons; (109 calories)
etc.
Most people in industrialized countries get far too many calories, not too few.
So the fact that some foodstuff or other is literally packed with calories isn't necessarily a point in its favor.
posted by flug at 4:36 PM on August 24, 2015
You have to remember that iceberg doesn't have much value but most other types of greens are where we get a lot of our nutrition and Fiber as well. True I would rather have a steak but if you don't have greens you will have severe health problems. Also so what if Iceberg is all water. As Humans so are we.
posted by kheimlich at 4:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kheimlich at 4:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lettuce is a pleasant walk spoiled.
posted by DaddyNewt at 4:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by DaddyNewt at 4:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
...I don't think lettuce is a substrate.
i mean one time i saw a poster where someone successfully used egg whites for their MALDI matrix, so i'll believe anything at this point
posted by kagredon at 5:16 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
i mean one time i saw a poster where someone successfully used egg whites for their MALDI matrix, so i'll believe anything at this point
posted by kagredon at 5:16 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I went to lunch at Chez Panisse in Berkeley 4 or 5 years ago and one of the salad choices was iceberg wedges (I didn't choose them). If it's good enough for Alice Waters, it's good enough for me.
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:35 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
The root article is based on an extremely questionable premise: that the real problem isn't that there are too many people, but that we're not turning water into calories efficiently enough. You might think that anthropogenic climate change might change a person's mind on the whole do-we-really-need-seven-billion-mouths-to-feed thing, but apparently not. In her previous article, "In Defense of Corn", she ends with this: "There’s a long list of things we ought to be doing to help address the problem of feeding a growing population. Some, like reducing food waste, are a clear win. Others, like buying organic, are more questionable." That's pretty much where the "long list" ends, and you'll notice what's missing.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:34 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:34 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
My salad is not your salad. Rethink your salad thoughts. You saladist bastard.
posted by Splunge at 6:51 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 6:51 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I MADE A GIANT BUCKET OF SALAD FOR DINNER AND AM NOW SALAD-MAD ON LETTUCE OPIUM 凸(ಠ益ಠ)凸
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
One of my friends has a favourite saying: "Salad is what food eats".
Personally, I am in the salad-loving camp. I even like iceberg, though other salady things are also good (but not collard greens, which are vile). Cucumbers are heaven, I don't care about their nutritional value, I care about their taste. If I am otherwise well-supplied with vegetables of the cooked variety but no salad, after a few days I start to crave my raw crunchy salady goodness.
I guess I can see the point about caloric/nutritional value for water and other resources consumed being low, but this article is not going to stop me eating salad, it will just give me ammunition for reasons why I hate celery and think it's a waste of space. Because that's obvious.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:36 PM on August 24, 2015
Personally, I am in the salad-loving camp. I even like iceberg, though other salady things are also good (but not collard greens, which are vile). Cucumbers are heaven, I don't care about their nutritional value, I care about their taste. If I am otherwise well-supplied with vegetables of the cooked variety but no salad, after a few days I start to crave my raw crunchy salady goodness.
I guess I can see the point about caloric/nutritional value for water and other resources consumed being low, but this article is not going to stop me eating salad, it will just give me ammunition for reasons why I hate celery and think it's a waste of space. Because that's obvious.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:36 PM on August 24, 2015
I was just thinking - the women aren't laughing.
They are cackling. Maniacally.
I now choose to accept "A deliberate attempt to smash the patriarchy via overconsumption of salad" as my headcanon prequel to Fury Road.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:59 PM on August 24, 2015
They are cackling. Maniacally.
I now choose to accept "A deliberate attempt to smash the patriarchy via overconsumption of salad" as my headcanon prequel to Fury Road.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:59 PM on August 24, 2015
Also, what about the version of salad which apparently means "mayonnaise delivery system". Where are we on that one? Good? Bad?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:00 PM on August 24, 2015
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:00 PM on August 24, 2015
Well, there's only one ethical solution: Soylent Green.
Unfortunately, humans are mostly water, too.
Pork -- 1630 gallons;
Butter -- 2044 gallons;
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons;
Chocolate -- 2847 gallons;
Human -- 1 million gallons*
* 1 millionish. 153 L/day x 24,530 days [aka 67.2 years] = 3.7 million liters = just under 1 million gallons. Also the number looks cool.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:06 PM on August 24, 2015
Unfortunately, humans are mostly water, too.
Pork -- 1630 gallons;
Butter -- 2044 gallons;
Beef -- 2500-5000 gallons;
Chocolate -- 2847 gallons;
Human -- 1 million gallons*
* 1 millionish. 153 L/day x 24,530 days [aka 67.2 years] = 3.7 million liters = just under 1 million gallons. Also the number looks cool.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:06 PM on August 24, 2015
but not collard greens, which are vile
yay more for me
Also, what about the version of salad which apparently means "mayonnaise delivery system". Where are we on that one? Good? Bad?
bad for you but yay more for me
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:08 PM on August 24, 2015
yay more for me
Also, what about the version of salad which apparently means "mayonnaise delivery system". Where are we on that one? Good? Bad?
bad for you but yay more for me
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:08 PM on August 24, 2015
Iceberg lettuce is not only a waste of space, it's a waste of matter. Especially in the limp, sad, shredded form that attempts to adorn burgers, wraps, and other unsuspecting otherwise tasty food.
But for some reason if you try to order with "no lettuce", people are confused by this request. Is it really unusual to dislike yucky lettuce? (Extra fun when mr. nat is with me.. He dislikes tomatoes. No wedge salad for us.)
Salad, on the other hand, is distinct from lettuce. Spinach, arugula, other leafy tasty greens, are all good by me. With some kind of nuts and dried fruit, or maybe sliced pears and some sharp cheddar, or.. So many options.
posted by nat at 9:49 PM on August 24, 2015
But for some reason if you try to order with "no lettuce", people are confused by this request. Is it really unusual to dislike yucky lettuce? (Extra fun when mr. nat is with me.. He dislikes tomatoes. No wedge salad for us.)
Salad, on the other hand, is distinct from lettuce. Spinach, arugula, other leafy tasty greens, are all good by me. With some kind of nuts and dried fruit, or maybe sliced pears and some sharp cheddar, or.. So many options.
posted by nat at 9:49 PM on August 24, 2015
I will judge you unless you subsist solely on sustainably harvested forest mushrooms and carrion.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 10:24 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by cosmic.osmo at 10:24 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
I must not salad.
Salad is the mind-killer.
Salad is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I'm so excited that now I have a valid reason to hate salad, beyond my intrinsic aversion. /smirk.
posted by snap, crackle and pop at 10:36 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Salad is the mind-killer.
Salad is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I'm so excited that now I have a valid reason to hate salad, beyond my intrinsic aversion. /smirk.
posted by snap, crackle and pop at 10:36 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Kale is fine in juice and smoothies BTW. Totally excellent, it's about what else you bring to the party (berries etc) and having good overpriced affluenza blenders and such
Can confirm. It's not that lettuce is low in nutrition or calories - it's that it's hard to eat enough of it to actually get that nutrition and calories. If you blend it, it's easy to eat 250-500g of greens.
posted by theorique at 5:14 AM on August 25, 2015
Can confirm. It's not that lettuce is low in nutrition or calories - it's that it's hard to eat enough of it to actually get that nutrition and calories. If you blend it, it's easy to eat 250-500g of greens.
posted by theorique at 5:14 AM on August 25, 2015
Lettuce is one of those things that should never be in a store. (other than as seed packets) It grows so easily inside year round on a windowsill and also outside in the spring/summer/early autumn depending on your climate. Al of my lettuce has exactly 0 food miles associated with it and likewise has only the small water cost of growing in a pot (which is watered from the waterbutt anyways so is just using water that would have run down the river.)
posted by koolkat at 5:38 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by koolkat at 5:38 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's not that lettuce is low in nutrition or calories - it's that it's hard to eat enough of it to actually get that nutrition and calories.
Isn't that why people eat lettuce, because it is low in calories? Don't most people get more than enough calories already?
Iceberg lettuce is not as great as other forms of lettuce (like Romaine) when it comes to nutrition, but still even 100 grams of iceberg lettuce give you 30% of your daily value of vitamin K, and 10% for vitamin A, plus some phytonutrients. 100 grams of Romaine gives you 100% of vitamin K and A, and a lot of vitamin C of folate. And that's just 100 grams, a small one-person bag.
I only read the first article but it seems like the author doesn't understand the topic. First lettuce is bad because "based on how much of 27 nutrients they contain per 100 calories". Then, the low score of lettuce (note: when compared to other vegetables, not when compared to, say, bacon or chicken wings) is "partly explained by one simple fact: They’re almost all water." That makes no sense at all, because water has no calories. If you compare foods by 100 calories, the amount of water in that food is not relevant at all.
posted by blub at 6:02 AM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Isn't that why people eat lettuce, because it is low in calories? Don't most people get more than enough calories already?
Iceberg lettuce is not as great as other forms of lettuce (like Romaine) when it comes to nutrition, but still even 100 grams of iceberg lettuce give you 30% of your daily value of vitamin K, and 10% for vitamin A, plus some phytonutrients. 100 grams of Romaine gives you 100% of vitamin K and A, and a lot of vitamin C of folate. And that's just 100 grams, a small one-person bag.
I only read the first article but it seems like the author doesn't understand the topic. First lettuce is bad because "based on how much of 27 nutrients they contain per 100 calories". Then, the low score of lettuce (note: when compared to other vegetables, not when compared to, say, bacon or chicken wings) is "partly explained by one simple fact: They’re almost all water." That makes no sense at all, because water has no calories. If you compare foods by 100 calories, the amount of water in that food is not relevant at all.
posted by blub at 6:02 AM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
i want to eat beef from cows that live in spacious new-build apartments in san francisco and drive up housing prices just THAT MUCH MORE
Cowbnb! I'm already looking for VC for this if you want to share a "founder" title.
posted by dis_integration at 6:25 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cowbnb! I'm already looking for VC for this if you want to share a "founder" title.
posted by dis_integration at 6:25 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
> actually yes a gourmand would eat foie and ortolan at the same meal.
Put the eggs on top.
posted by jfuller at 6:31 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Put the eggs on top.
posted by jfuller at 6:31 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
ortolucken
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:46 AM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:46 AM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
#saladpitches
posted by holgate at 8:24 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by holgate at 8:24 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now that science has declared fats to be healthy, or at least not unhealthy, is there any basis to the salad dressing bashing that's going on in this thread?
posted by rocket88 at 9:44 AM on August 25, 2015
posted by rocket88 at 9:44 AM on August 25, 2015
Now that science has declared fats to be healthy, or at least not unhealthy, is there any basis to the salad dressing bashing that's going on in this thread?
Don't drown your food!
just kidding. When I make a sandwich, it's mostly mayo.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:46 AM on August 25, 2015
Don't drown your food!
just kidding. When I make a sandwich, it's mostly mayo.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:46 AM on August 25, 2015
And so on. The article isn't saying that salads are intrinsically wrong. It is saying that the actual salads that many people eat are terrible salads without redeeming features.
Well, great, but the article is introducing a kind of meaningless concern, since "salad" isn't a category of foodstuffs so much as a preparation style. Talk about lettuce vs. leafy greens if you will, and chuckle at how bacon & bleu cheese or Jell-O & whipped cream can both be tagged in a similar category... but the way this is presented, it's kind of like saying "going to Denver may kill you!" and leaving the matter of whether you're flying or driving or walking as a footnote.
posted by psoas at 12:07 PM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, great, but the article is introducing a kind of meaningless concern, since "salad" isn't a category of foodstuffs so much as a preparation style. Talk about lettuce vs. leafy greens if you will, and chuckle at how bacon & bleu cheese or Jell-O & whipped cream can both be tagged in a similar category... but the way this is presented, it's kind of like saying "going to Denver may kill you!" and leaving the matter of whether you're flying or driving or walking as a footnote.
posted by psoas at 12:07 PM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Today's contribution to the genre: Stop taking fish oil pills
posted by naju at 4:20 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by naju at 4:20 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, except a recent (like, published in the last week) study showed that fish-oil tablets helped prevent psychosis in high-risk teens.
I suspect it may turn out that each person is different, with different nutritional and caloric and various-other-thing requirements and deficits, and some things are good for some people and other things are good for other people. I also suspect that if I write that up as a book, or even an article, I won't make any money.
posted by jaguar at 10:11 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I suspect it may turn out that each person is different, with different nutritional and caloric and various-other-thing requirements and deficits, and some things are good for some people and other things are good for other people. I also suspect that if I write that up as a book, or even an article, I won't make any money.
posted by jaguar at 10:11 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
GuyZero: "Now, if you live in Canada or Japan, yeah, you're killing the planet eating greens outside the month a year they grow locally."
What? All the stuff that is used in salad in Japan is grown locally year round. I've never seen foreign-grown lettuce or tomatoes or any other salad ingredients.
posted by Bugbread at 4:43 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
What? All the stuff that is used in salad in Japan is grown locally year round. I've never seen foreign-grown lettuce or tomatoes or any other salad ingredients.
posted by Bugbread at 4:43 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Now, if you live in Canada or Japan, yeah, you're killing the planet eating greens outside the month a year they grow locally.
Both lettuce and tomatoes are also grown year round in Ontario. Don't make me sing the Foodland Ontario jingle...Good things grooow, in Ontarioooo....there, now you've made me do it. Are you happy?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:47 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Both lettuce and tomatoes are also grown year round in Ontario. Don't make me sing the Foodland Ontario jingle...Good things grooow, in Ontarioooo....there, now you've made me do it. Are you happy?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:47 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
So I only have one data point: I went, oddly, on a work-related field trip to a lettuce farm in California a few years back. They picked and packed the iceberg lettuce right in the field. And this particular operation was all being wrapped in Japanese and was going straight from the field to an airport somewhere to get shipped to Japan. They gave me head to take home and it was really, really good iceberg lettuce.
posted by GuyZero at 4:47 PM on August 26, 2015
posted by GuyZero at 4:47 PM on August 26, 2015
Canadian lettuce production in 2011 was work about $28M while imports of lettuce were valued at $400M. So about 93% of Canada's lettuce is imported. Ontario actually only produces 16% of Canadian domestic production, Quebec is a much bigger produce.
But they're nothing next to California and to a lesser extent Texas.
posted by GuyZero at 4:52 PM on August 26, 2015
But they're nothing next to California and to a lesser extent Texas.
posted by GuyZero at 4:52 PM on August 26, 2015
And the US produces about $1.5B of lettuce annually. Although I was wrong - it's CA and AZ, not CA and TX.
Oddly, the US imports lettuce as well as exporting it.
posted by GuyZero at 4:56 PM on August 26, 2015
Oddly, the US imports lettuce as well as exporting it.
posted by GuyZero at 4:56 PM on August 26, 2015
Ah, okay, I can see why you got the wrong impression.
This summer, for the summer school project (think "Science Fair" or "Social Studies Fair" or that kind of thing, where each kid makes up a project), my son went to a few local supermarkets and tallied where all the different fruits and vegetables came from, and then made a big map of Japan showing where different stuff was grown. All the "standard" veggies in all the supermarkets were from Japan. Fruit, on the other hand, was largely imported (pineapples and bananas from the Philippines, kiwi from New Zealand, grapefruit from the US). Oh, and avocadoes. All the avocadoes were from Mexico. So the lettuce you saw being shipped to Japan from the US was just a weird outlier.
(And also one that doesn't make lots of sense. Japanese don't like US produce because it has an image of being drenched in pesticides and chemicals. However, if you want grapefruit out of season, it's your only choice, so people will accept it (and wash carefully). But there would be no reason to buy American lettuce. Local lettuce is always available, US produce has negative cachet, I doubt it would be all that cheap...strange.)
posted by Bugbread at 4:57 PM on August 26, 2015
This summer, for the summer school project (think "Science Fair" or "Social Studies Fair" or that kind of thing, where each kid makes up a project), my son went to a few local supermarkets and tallied where all the different fruits and vegetables came from, and then made a big map of Japan showing where different stuff was grown. All the "standard" veggies in all the supermarkets were from Japan. Fruit, on the other hand, was largely imported (pineapples and bananas from the Philippines, kiwi from New Zealand, grapefruit from the US). Oh, and avocadoes. All the avocadoes were from Mexico. So the lettuce you saw being shipped to Japan from the US was just a weird outlier.
(And also one that doesn't make lots of sense. Japanese don't like US produce because it has an image of being drenched in pesticides and chemicals. However, if you want grapefruit out of season, it's your only choice, so people will accept it (and wash carefully). But there would be no reason to buy American lettuce. Local lettuce is always available, US produce has negative cachet, I doubt it would be all that cheap...strange.)
posted by Bugbread at 4:57 PM on August 26, 2015
i regret to inform you that those are drug cartel murder avocados.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:58 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 4:58 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
In my mind I slotted iceberg lettuce going to Japan with that odd stereotype of Japanese people paying exorbitant prices for extra-high-quality produce like huge strawberries or cubic watermelons.
Sorry for having weird preconceptions about Japan.
posted by GuyZero at 5:07 PM on August 26, 2015
Sorry for having weird preconceptions about Japan.
posted by GuyZero at 5:07 PM on August 26, 2015
Weirdly I managed to find a US government document about the Japanese vegetable market with this paragraph:
"The shortage in lettuce toward the end of 2012 to early 2013 was so severe that some processors even had to procure lettuce by air from the U.S. to keep the promises they had made to their customers." (page 14)
which is about when I went on my farm field trip. huh. Maybe it was just a crazy coincidence?
posted by GuyZero at 5:11 PM on August 26, 2015
"The shortage in lettuce toward the end of 2012 to early 2013 was so severe that some processors even had to procure lettuce by air from the U.S. to keep the promises they had made to their customers." (page 14)
which is about when I went on my farm field trip. huh. Maybe it was just a crazy coincidence?
posted by GuyZero at 5:11 PM on August 26, 2015
Canadian lettuce production in 2011 was work about $28M while imports of lettuce were valued at $400M. So about 93% of Canada's lettuce is imported.
Dude, I don't know why you have this weird thing about Canada and importing lettuce, but the data you are linking to is specifically about greenhouse production of lettuce, not lettuce in general. We grow lettuce outside in Canada too, you know.
posted by ssg at 5:20 PM on August 26, 2015
Dude, I don't know why you have this weird thing about Canada and importing lettuce, but the data you are linking to is specifically about greenhouse production of lettuce, not lettuce in general. We grow lettuce outside in Canada too, you know.
posted by ssg at 5:20 PM on August 26, 2015
Dude, Canada imports lettuce. What is the point in arguing otherwise?
FINE - total Canadian lettuce production in 2013 was worth $61.6M.
Canada. is. not. self. sufficient. in. lettuce. production.
And the gap in production and consumption is all driven in from California or Arizona.
posted by GuyZero at 5:27 PM on August 26, 2015
FINE - total Canadian lettuce production in 2013 was worth $61.6M.
Canada. is. not. self. sufficient. in. lettuce. production.
And the gap in production and consumption is all driven in from California or Arizona.
posted by GuyZero at 5:27 PM on August 26, 2015
Ugh, wait, that document has totally different stats for greenhouse lettuce value.
DAMNIT NOW I'LL BE UP ALL NIGHT STUDYING CANADIAN LETTUCE PRODUCTION
posted by GuyZero at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
DAMNIT NOW I'LL BE UP ALL NIGHT STUDYING CANADIAN LETTUCE PRODUCTION
posted by GuyZero at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Canada. is. not. self. sufficient. in. lettuce. production. And the gap in production and consumption is all driven in from California or Arizona.
Man, I SO wanted to say, "Sure, but they get all the water for that lettuce from us."
But it turns out that's not true. Stupid data. Stupid facts.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2015
Man, I SO wanted to say, "Sure, but they get all the water for that lettuce from us."
But it turns out that's not true. Stupid data. Stupid facts.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2015
GuyZero: Call 1-800-O-Canada and ask them.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:30 PM on August 26, 2015
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:30 PM on August 26, 2015
GuyZero, thanks for that PDF! Super-interesting. And, yeah, bad weather can really play havoc with availability, so I can totally see lettuce being imported one year because local crops got wiped out. I don't remember the Lettuce Void of 2012, but I remember the Year Where You Could Not Buy Any Fucking Butter Anywhere, in which I saw imported butter for the first time ever. But last year and this year, at least, I've seen zero imported lettuce, so it was definitely a one-year-only stopgap.
Also, that PDF was about pre-cut vegetables, and that's something I hadn't considered. Nobody wants to buy imported US produce to eat themselves, but restaurants want what's cheap and convenient, so while people wouldn't buy US lettuce to eat at home, if it were cheap, I could totally see restaurants buying US lettuce, especially if it was pre-cut and ready to go.
As for the crazy-expensive produce, yeah, Japan loves crazy expensive melons and grapes and whatnot, but that's the opposite end of the spectrum from the imported stuff. Imported fresh foods (meats, fruits, veggies) are cheap, non-luxury, and viewed with great suspicion about pesticides, hormones, and generally shitty hygiene. Like, raw egg on rice is a common dish here, but hygienic conditions in the US mean eating raw eggs in the US is playing Russian roulette. Same with raw chicken, which is sometimes eaten in Japan but unthinkable in the US, etc. So Japanese generally aren't fond of raw imported foods. Now, stuff like wines and cheeses and beers and other processed / cooked foods, that's a different story. Expensive and well-liked. But not the raw stuff.
/sorry about the derail
posted by Bugbread at 5:40 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, that PDF was about pre-cut vegetables, and that's something I hadn't considered. Nobody wants to buy imported US produce to eat themselves, but restaurants want what's cheap and convenient, so while people wouldn't buy US lettuce to eat at home, if it were cheap, I could totally see restaurants buying US lettuce, especially if it was pre-cut and ready to go.
As for the crazy-expensive produce, yeah, Japan loves crazy expensive melons and grapes and whatnot, but that's the opposite end of the spectrum from the imported stuff. Imported fresh foods (meats, fruits, veggies) are cheap, non-luxury, and viewed with great suspicion about pesticides, hormones, and generally shitty hygiene. Like, raw egg on rice is a common dish here, but hygienic conditions in the US mean eating raw eggs in the US is playing Russian roulette. Same with raw chicken, which is sometimes eaten in Japan but unthinkable in the US, etc. So Japanese generally aren't fond of raw imported foods. Now, stuff like wines and cheeses and beers and other processed / cooked foods, that's a different story. Expensive and well-liked. But not the raw stuff.
/sorry about the derail
posted by Bugbread at 5:40 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ah, and, in fact, that whole thing about "the food service sector uses imported ingredients but consumers avoid them", and in fact most of the stuff I wrote, is in the PDF. You go, Global Agricultural Information Network!
posted by Bugbread at 5:50 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Bugbread at 5:50 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
wtf happened in here
posted by kagredon at 11:45 PM on August 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by kagredon at 11:45 PM on August 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room salad bar!
posted by nubs at 8:14 AM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nubs at 8:14 AM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
/sorry about the derail
Indeed. Lettuce get cereal and ketchup to the topic of the thread.
posted by theorique at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2015
Indeed. Lettuce get cereal and ketchup to the topic of the thread.
posted by theorique at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2015
Metafilter: DAMMIT NOW I'LL BE UP ALL NIGHT STUDYING CANADIAN LETTUCE PRODUCTION
posted by maryr at 1:08 PM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maryr at 1:08 PM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Good things grooow, in Ontarioooo....
Everyone loves! Marineland!
posted by maryr at 1:11 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Everyone loves! Marineland!
posted by maryr at 1:11 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Once I forgot a romaine heart in the otherwise empty bottom drawer of the backup fridge. Lo, and some weeks later nothing was left but blackish ichor. Water with a little scum on top.
I hate lettuce, and prefer vegetables that bite back.
posted by bad grammar at 3:08 PM on August 28, 2015
I hate lettuce, and prefer vegetables that bite back.
posted by bad grammar at 3:08 PM on August 28, 2015
That romaine might have bitten back if you'd left it longer.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:34 PM on August 28, 2015
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:34 PM on August 28, 2015
The Washington Post Says Salad Is Overrated. The Washington Post Is So Wrong.
posted by crocodiletsunami at 1:12 AM on August 29, 2015
posted by crocodiletsunami at 1:12 AM on August 29, 2015
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posted by nubs at 12:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [11 favorites]