No disassemble!

August 29, 2015 6:00 PM

Escaping from Children’s Abuse of Social Robots. "the robot is programmed to run away from people who are below a certain height"
posted by bitmage (74 comments total)

It also "chose to stay close to the child's parent, as this lowers the possibility of abuse." Smart robot.

I do wonder how much more effective a slight deterrent would be. Maybe give the robot a pointy stick?
posted by Rangi at 6:06 PM on August 29, 2015

A robot is rubber and a child is glue, so long as this does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
posted by moonmilk at 6:14 PM on August 29, 2015 [61 favorites]

ROBOT HANDS ARE HARD AND METAL

CHILD HEAD IS SOFT AND SQUISHY

PLEASE STAND ASIDE
posted by backseatpilot at 6:15 PM on August 29, 2015 [42 favorites]

I wonder how a Dalek would handle this situation?
posted by Muncle at 6:28 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]

Reading the steps the programmers went through to calculate how to keep the robot safe reminded me uncomfortably of my own grade school years.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:29 PM on August 29, 2015 [30 favorites]

IF THE RO-BOT WAS PROPERLY ARM-ED, THE SMALL HU-MANS WOULD LEARN PROP-ER FEAR OF THE SU-PER-I-OR BE-INGS. PIN TEACH-ES MEAT, THAT IS THE LAW!!!
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:32 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]

I wonder how a Dalek would handle this situation?


I love the idea of programming the robot to yell "Exterminate! Exterminate!" whenever it is approached by 3 or more children.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:35 PM on August 29, 2015 [8 favorites]

I feel like the robot should be yelling, "I NEED AN ADULT!" while running away.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:35 PM on August 29, 2015 [31 favorites]

This would never happen in North Dakota.
posted by dazed_one at 6:37 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]

dazed_one But it would in Philadelphia. (*sigh*)
posted by SansPoint at 6:43 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

This is Scarfolk, right?
posted by user92371 at 6:45 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]

[T]he robot is programmed to run away from people who are below a certain height.

So am I... so am I.
posted by carmicha at 7:03 PM on August 29, 2015 [11 favorites]

I don't recall "take shit from little punks" as being a fourth law of robotics.
posted by dr_dank at 7:07 PM on August 29, 2015 [27 favorites]

It seems like the simpler solution is to build a robot that can call a child an idiot eight times in response.

under my totalitarian dictatorship greg nog will head the ministry of advanced robotics
posted by poffin boffin at 7:15 PM on August 29, 2015 [17 favorites]

Reading the steps the programmers went through to calculate how to keep the robot safe reminded me uncomfortably of my own grade school years

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The surveys they did with the kids were particularly telling, and confirm that I was right for not believing my mother when she said that bullies were just jealous, or came from bad homes, or had emotional problems of their own. Kids who like to bully weaker kids do it because they think it's fun and can get away with it.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [36 favorites]

They started by developing a computer simulation and statistical model of the children’s abuse towards the robot, showing that it happens primarily when the kids are in groups and no adults are nearby.

Or they could have just picked up the Cliffs Notes for Lord Of The Flies.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:30 PM on August 29, 2015 [8 favorites]

Whatever God wants...he keeps.
posted by Fizz at 7:52 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]

Er, isn't this obvious? A robot is fun. A robot that exhibits interesting behavior is more fun. Kids like to mess around with fun things, discovering what they can about them. The thing about this robot is that it does something interesting when you block its way. So, they keep blocking its way, so they can observe the fun behavior.

While kids might not hold the Furby upside down when it asks them not to, that's not as fun as a robot asking them something politely. Because the kids are not fooled in either case; none of them think the Furby or the robot is really alive, not like the hamster is alive.

Programming a robot to run away from kids will have one predictable (and hilarious) result: the kids are gonna chase that robot across the mall.
posted by JHarris at 7:58 PM on August 29, 2015 [37 favorites]

Did you guys watch the part of the video where the kids joined hands around the robot and basically played ring around the rosy? I was sort of fascinated by that - for part of it, I thought the kids were basically just experimenting in a way we should absolutely expect and endorse. Like, if a random robot ever comes up to my kid in a mall and requests that she move out of the way without any further explanation, I damn well hope she's curious and brave enough to try and figure out what happens if she doesn't.

In fact, I sort of think kicking the robot and calling it names is its own form of reasonable experimentation: like, if I'm seven, I know that if I kick a person, the person will hurt, and if I kick a pillow, the pillow will be fine...but a robot inhabits a different, liminal space. What happens if I kick it? Guess I should try and find out. And if I kick it, and it just keeps saying, "Please move aside..." instead of saying, "Ouch, please stop," that's also sort of mysterious and unprecedented. So I might keep kicking it, just to keep seeing what happens.

Yelling 'idiot' eight times in a row, though - that's just unimaginative.

On preview: JHarris - ditto!
posted by pretentious illiterate at 8:02 PM on August 29, 2015 [17 favorites]

My grandmother had a cat that was programmed to run away from people under a certain height.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:07 PM on August 29, 2015 [22 favorites]

Artificial Paedophobia
posted by acb at 8:07 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

It's funny that the bullied robots - just like bullied kids - will grow up to be their tormentors' bosses.
posted by vorpal bunny at 8:17 PM on August 29, 2015 [19 favorites]

Forget empathy, kids know that if their experimentation goes out of hand, they won't be the ones paying for repairs.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 8:24 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

And yet they programmed the robot to run away? It seems like the simpler solution is to build a robot that can call a child an idiot eight times in response.

Addendum: at no less than 100 dB.

Double addendum: it follows the kid it identifies as the ringleader around and keeps calling him/her an idiot. Forever. Decades later, the poor sap will be a prosperous sarariman with several underlings and, try as he might to avoid it, he'll be having a meeting and the door will open and the robot will enter, extend a metallic finger to point and him, and bellow BAKA! loud enough to rustle everyone's hair, and then run away until it determines he needs another reminder.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:24 PM on August 29, 2015 [23 favorites]

"Idiot."

"IGNORE ME!!!" *Kicks kid in the balls*
posted by dirigibleman at 8:28 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

Why it’s important to beat up robots
posted by straight at 8:37 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

SansPoint: dazed_one But it would in Philadelphia. (*sigh*)

HitchhikerBot was a smashing success, proving that a robot can wind up decapitated at the side of the road just as efficiently as a human hitchhiker can.
posted by dr_dank at 8:43 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]

They could try programming the robot to be depressed. Kid kicks it and it replies "here I am, brain the size of a planet..."
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:52 PM on August 29, 2015 [15 favorites]

@vorpal bunny

I am reminded of the old science geek chant - "You can win! That's okay! You'll all work for us someday!"
posted by Vigilant at 8:56 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

The more twisted thing here is that we're really surrounded by various types of robots every day, but they're not humanlike so no one pays them any attention. Only when a robot vaguely resembles an autonomous human is there an incentive to vandalize the robot.
posted by picklenickle at 9:07 PM on August 29, 2015 [6 favorites]

DROP YOUR BINKY. YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO COMPLY. ONE... TWO...
posted by brundlefly at 9:13 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Children are like cats.

Sometimes cute. Frequently assholes.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Jharris already said what I was going to say. Of course the kids blocked the robot.

It's like if a kid had a sign on his back that said, "please don't kick me". Would it be a surprise if another kid kicked him?
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 9:32 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

It seems like the simpler solution is to build a robot that can call a child an idiot eight times in response.

I could write that function in three lines, but I keep getting an infinite loop error:

Do
Console.WriteLine("I know you are but what am I?")
Loop While VerbalAbuse = True

posted by Strange Interlude at 10:05 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

> one kid called the robot “idiot” eight times.

And yet they programmed the robot to run away? It seems like the simpler solution is to build a robot that can call a child an idiot eight times in response.

Okay I like the way you think. But let me throw this curveball at you: nine times.

No, fuck it, you know what?

Ten times.
posted by No-sword at 10:28 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

> one kid called the robot “idiot” eight times.

I dream of a world where 8000 robots call a child "idiot" in 800 languages 80 times a day.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:39 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]

Only when a robot vaguely resembles an autonomous human is there an incentive to vandalize the robot.

And now I'm sad and bereft of hope for mankind. It's like the eight time today already.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:55 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

one kid called the robot “idiot” eight times.

Shinji?
posted by betweenthebars at 11:14 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Future versions of this bully-training robot will have a cache of lunch money and an inexpertly crafted diorama for children to steal and destroy, respectively.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:35 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Shinji?

No, the robot is running away from the children, not the other way around.
posted by Rangi at 12:04 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

Eight times, nine times, ten times? You're all thinking small.

Clearly times infinity, no backsies is the way to go.
posted by dazed_one at 12:15 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

"Why do children abuse robots" is my everything. It also confirms that we are living in the future and the fact that I'm old.
posted by reedcourtneyj at 12:26 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

Now we know why they want to Kill All Humans.
posted by Segundus at 12:29 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

A new front has been opened in the eternal war between Nature and Technology
posted by Apocryphon at 1:10 AM on August 30, 2015

I'd have the response to abuse be to start displaying randomised behaviours that can only be interpreted as brokenness. The assailant and chums will immediately leave the area and will swear that they were in a completely different place all the time.

Decades later, the poor sap will be a prosperous sarariman with several underlings and, try as he might to avoid it, he'll be having a meeting and the door will open and the robot will enter, extend a metallic finger to point and him, and bellow BAKA! loud enough to rustle everyone's hair, and then run away until it determines he needs another reminder.

Why would you need a robot for that? That's what my brain does all the time.
posted by Grangousier at 2:12 AM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]

I'd have the response to abuse be to start displaying randomised behaviours that can only be interpreted as brokenness.

Will quickly be interpreted by ordinary people as true malfunctions and lead to excessive reports of such and, probably, result in it having an Out Of Order sign draped over it at least half the time.
posted by JHarris at 2:19 AM on August 30, 2015

Well, at least people would leave it alone. Isn't being left alone the object of the exercise?
posted by Grangousier at 2:21 AM on August 30, 2015

No, the robot is running away from the children, not the other way around.

Akane?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:34 AM on August 30, 2015

Just Passing Through

Resistance Is Character-Forming

I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

So Much For Subtlety

Boo!

All Through With This Niceness And Negotiation Stuff

Now We Try it My Way

Injury Time

Lasting Damage

Lasting Damage I

Lasting Damage II

Now Look What You've Made Me Do

I Blame the Parents
posted by Dumsnill at 2:36 AM on August 30, 2015 [11 favorites]

....I was right for not believing my mother when she said that bullies were just jealous, or came from bad homes, or had emotional problems of their own. Kids who like to bully weaker kids do it because they think it's fun and can get away with it.

It's an article of faith for many people that humans are fundamentally good, and that any impulses to hatred, violence, or cruelty are "really" something else, which, if only understood as a mask, would disappear. I am not a believer.
posted by thelonius at 3:10 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

I wonder how a Dalek would handle this situation?

Oh come on people!
Daleks are not robots.
There's a Kaled mutant (usually, except in S1 of the new era) inside. Kaleds are organic beings from Skaro.
posted by Mezentian at 3:32 AM on August 30, 2015 [15 favorites]

I have a shrink who was a child in the Great Depression. He will sometimes refer to 18th century novelists and use Latin words I don't understand.

So one day I sort of ignored his personal settings and was all: "DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE BOSTON ROBOT THAT MADE IT TO PHILLY BEFORE IT WAS TORN TO BITS" and his eyes were like 0-0. He is not of this century, the wonderful man.
posted by angrycat at 3:44 AM on August 30, 2015 [8 favorites]

A robot would be smart to be afraid of Tyrion Lannister.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:11 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Mezentian, the jock robot I invented to call you a nerd is on its way over.


Should be there any minute now.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:22 AM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

Expect a confrontation not seen since Robot Jox 2 hit the screen.
posted by Mezentian at 4:33 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh- there it is now!

*robot voice*

NEEERRRRRRRRD!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:46 AM on August 30, 2015

Kenny Baker's difficulty in approaching R2-D2 has been a part of the trouble on the set of Star Wars Episode VII.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:07 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

To reply to thelonius:

It's an article of faith for many people that humans are fundamentally bad, and that any impulses to hatred, violence, or cruelty are the default state of human-kind, and this is why we should all pay huge amounts to the military industrial complex, let police dictate our actions, accept the actions of the NSA, vote Republican, etc. I am not a believer of that, either.
posted by JHarris at 5:11 AM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

one kid called the robot “idiot” eight times.

Not an expert, but I've heard 'idiot' is pretty strong swearing in Japanese... much much more of an insult than calling someone an idiot in English
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:35 AM on August 30, 2015

NEEERRRRRRRRD!

I just finished watching Star Trek: Renegades, which starred one of the actors from Robot Jox.
Your charge is one I cannot deny.
posted by Mezentian at 5:41 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Japanese idiots are probably more in line with the original Greek sense: "My God man, are you ever lacking in professional skills and political acumen!"

One could see that would smart a bit.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:42 AM on August 30, 2015

The kids are instinctively working to drive the interloper out. This is the basis of racism and competition and a bunch of other stuff that is hardwired. Kids and people identify others who are not genetically close to them by the fact that they are different and then give them a hard time. Evolutionarily the pay off is only having to share resources with people who share genetics with you.

If you don't want kids to do this you have to teach them alternate behaviour with an explanation that fits well to their hardwiring, things like, You are lucky to have robots in the mall. Grown-ups don't hurt robots, only cowardly low status kids hurt robots and similar things. Adults can also model do-not-hurt behaviour to kids as they do when they interact with the neighbours dog.

If the robot is given a stick the kids might see it as a danger to them and escalate. That's not the deterent I recommend. Something like an electric shock that only occurs when you physically mess with the robot is better as you can't rationalise that "I only called him a name but he hurt me so I have to hurt him worse to protect myself."

It is normally the high status kids that lead the bully and aggressive behaviour, but because they soon do not have to take any risks of physical behaviour it is the low status kids that get caught doing the bullying. The high status kids are the ones who decide who can be bullied.

You know what my take on this is? It's fantastic. I never knew. There are malls in Japan where it is okay for kids to roam around unsupervised!!! That's not even true for the local schools in my area, or other places that are meant to be for kids. I am blown away. But there is a place in Japan where kids are allowed to choose where to go and what to do.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:55 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

To reply to thelonius and jharris:

It's an article of faith for me that humans are fundamentally human, and begin with a wide range of possible behaviour, both what we would call bad and would call good, some more ingrained than others so that they can adapt to different circumstances. As they get older and more experienced they only increase their potential range of behaviour. We are designed to be submissive if we get into a situation where there are many others more dominant than we are and designed to be dominant if we get into a situation where many others are more submissive than we are. As humans what we are is adaptable. We are more than merely bad or good.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:00 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Scene: Computer Exhibit at the Boston Children's Museum, circa 1978.

COMPUTER:
WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY GUESS THE NUMBER?

YOUNG NOT_ON_DISPLAY:
> Y

COMPUTER:
GREAT! WHAT IS YOUR NAME?

YOUNG NOT_ON_DISPLAY:
> I AM A DUMB FARTY COMPUTER

COMPUTER:
PLEASED TO MEET YOU, I AM A DUMB FARTY COMPUTER!

not_on_display giggles, and sidles over to the next computer station.

THE END
posted by not_on_display at 6:37 AM on August 30, 2015 [10 favorites]

Obviously, children are our only hope in defeating our robot overlords.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:39 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

not_on_display hacked the planet (or Basic) before Matthew Lillard (and other actors) showed us we could hack the planet,
posted by Mezentian at 6:41 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]

Human culture is just a set of DLC we've added onto a basic monkey interface.

It's remarkable that it manages to override the basic programming as often as it does.
posted by winna at 7:28 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

This is how I responded to bullies when I was a teen.

Perhaps we could teach robots to try that too!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 8:52 AM on August 30, 2015

It pleases me greatly that the default Metafilter response to this problem is to weaponize the damn robot.

It's obviously not the best, most humane option - which is to grow all children from birth in isolated pods, only letting them out when they can demonstrate sanity, but it will do as an interim measure.
posted by Devonian at 9:50 AM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

Watching little Johnny with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The insultinator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never stop shouting "Idiot!" at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time shouting "Idiot!" at him. It would always be there. And it would die, to shout "Idiot!" him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:02 AM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]

It's obviously not the best, most humane option - which is to grow all children from birth in isolated pods, only letting them out when they can demonstrate sanity, but it will do as an interim measure.

And, who judges "sanity"? Adults? Riiiiiiiiight...
posted by Thorzdad at 2:58 PM on August 30, 2015

Why it’s important to beat up robots
posted by straight at 10:37 PM on August 29
[4 favorites +] [!]

And the robot researchers talk about troubling ethical implications. Well, show a fifteen-week fetus to those Japanese children, and ask them if it’s okay to slice it up and sell the pieces. Then we can talk about “ethical implications.” Then we can talk about who has “frightening moral principles.”

I had a lot to do today but I suppose I have to make time to beat up robots and slice up fetuses because I am pro-choice and have no morals.
posted by Monochrome at 3:29 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

Now I can't help but wonder if Data got hazed at Starfleet Academy.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:01 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]

The disappointing part of this is that the kids didn't actually destroy the thing.

I don't know how you can possibly think that it's a good idea to encourage empathy for machines.
posted by Hizonner at 11:41 AM on August 31, 2015