Are You Good Enough to Be a Tennis Line Judge?
September 1, 2015 7:28 PM   Subscribe

 
Oh I suck at this.
posted by BrotherCaine at 7:35 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


I can barely tell if you show me a freeze-frame and circle the ball with a highlighter.
posted by xingcat at 7:40 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's in when I like the player, and out when I don't.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 7:41 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]


Just guess. It's what the real judges do, anyway.
posted by clvrmnky at 7:45 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think it would be easier if you could see the entire flight of the ball.
posted by oddman at 7:46 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]


I got better, 3/5 on the first two, the 4/5 and 5/5 on the sideline. Trick is to focus on the entire line at once if you can, looking at only the 'out' edge. Any part of the ball to the 'in' side is in, if it's all to the out, it's out. It's hardest when the ball is further away, or if you're only focusing on a portion of the line and it hits in a spot you weren't ready to see it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]


I thought I was really bad at this. Turns out my browser just wasn't autoplaying the video of the ball.
posted by Rangi at 7:54 PM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]


4/5 on all four tests. I used to be a varsity tennis player and thus occasionally shoulder-tapped to line judge at tournaments. I'm sorry to the 20% of people I cheated out of legitimate points.
posted by 256 at 8:01 PM on September 1, 2015


5/5
2/5
2/5
2/5

I'll do a sober retest in the morning with my tea.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:04 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


To oddman's point, does a line judge follow the ball or just watch the line?
posted by falsedmitri at 8:09 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


Growing up, there was this nice lady in the neighborhood who was a lines person at the US Open back when it was at Forest Hills. To me and my friends, she was low key and mild mannered, a real nice person. Apparently, she was hated on the tour and yelled at non-stop by the players at a time when they were just starting to break away from the gentleman's all whites (clothes) game. I remember at the kitchen table one morning, my mother reading the paper and saying "Oh my" and other things like that. I asked, "What? What mom?" They are talking about Mrs. Sh****w in the paper."

When I played and we called our own lines, I always called it for my opponent and against me because I just could not tell.
posted by AugustWest at 8:22 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh yes. If you're calling your own lines and there is any question, it is in your opponent's favour. That's just civilized.
posted by 256 at 8:35 PM on September 1, 2015


4/5
4/5
5/5
4/5

Good to see I still remember something from high school tennis.
posted by mmascolino at 8:39 PM on September 1, 2015


5/5
4/5
5/5
5/5

I guess I have a backup career? Probably not, since I have no confidence that I could keep this up for any length of time...
posted by rollbiz at 8:43 PM on September 1, 2015


I remember one time being called in to be a substitute fourth player for my father's weekly doubles group, and I noticed how the receiving player's partner would help call serves for the receiver. So I tried that a couple times, though as a singles player, I'm not really accustomed to following the ball from anywhere but running back and forth along the baseline. All the serves looked so fast and askew when tracked by craning your neck around with the ball that I called a couple 'Out!' as they appeared to me, and got some odd looks at first, then followed by a "Really?" from a server once when I apparently was way off. Ultimately I decided my ability to spot these was really not up to scratch, and perhaps calling tennis shots is better left with the pros.
posted by Metro Gnome at 9:42 PM on September 1, 2015


5/5 for the first, 4/5 on all others. Adequate, I guess.
posted by maudlin at 9:49 PM on September 1, 2015


This was well done. No line judging for me.
posted by dry white toast at 9:49 PM on September 1, 2015


It seemed that there weren't enough frames per second in the video to make it like watching a real ball. Or is that just my browser?
posted by Koheleth at 10:16 PM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]


Wikipedia says, "Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." It is named after Ian Betteridge, a British technology journalist although the principle is much older."

I am living proof of that law in action.
posted by vac2003 at 1:17 AM on September 2, 2015


It seemed that there weren't enough frames per second in the video to make it like watching a real ball. Or is that just my browser?

I think this is one of those cases where a 60fps video (like those video game captures on YouTube) would make a difference.
posted by jklaiho at 1:26 AM on September 2, 2015


.does a line judge follow the ball or just watch the line?

I used to be a professional line judge. You need to follow the play until you see that the ball is coming towards your line and then switch focus to be watching the line where the ball is going across it.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 1:29 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


According to this article a fast serve can cross the court in around 1/3 of a second.
posted by Harald74 at 3:32 AM on September 2, 2015


It seemed that there weren't enough frames per second in the video to make it like watching a real ball.

Definitely not just you. I guessed on at least half of them, because when you only see two frames, there isn't much to judge on.

(Android tablet, here.)
posted by mitabrev at 4:20 AM on September 2, 2015


If you're calling your own lines and there is any question, it is in your opponent's favour. That's just civilized.

In fact, the vast majority of tennis players, who play without a line judge or umpire, are supposed to adhere to a set of USTA rules called The Code in competitive match play. I had to memorize it before I could play on my high school team, for example. Under The Code, the player the ball is traveling toward calls the ball in or out and if there is any doubt it is supposed to be ruled in.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:17 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


you can't be serious
posted by bukvich at 6:09 AM on September 2, 2015


Regarding the lack of frames, part of the skill of tennis (playing and judging) is being able to quickly get a read on the ball's speed and trajectory, and therefore know where it's going to end up and whether it's going to be in or out, even before it lands. It's what they call "seeing the ball early."

Surely it would be better if there were more frames, but we're viewing it through layers of technology, and that ball is going fast.
posted by mantecol at 6:34 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


"When I played and we called our own lines, I always called it for my opponent and against me because I just could not tell."

The epitome of tennis etiquette and good sportsmanship. Well done.
posted by klarck at 6:55 AM on September 2, 2015


I don't watch tennis, but could swear that 10 years ago some tournament used the computer vision system (EagleEye?) to call in/out. There was some kind of beep if it was out? Is that only used on serves or challenges now?

I have long held (this apparent false memory) up for proof that we could get to the same point with all sport (primarily baseball and american football). Perhaps my largest frustration with professional sports is that so much hinges on an error-prone and unrepeatable observer.
posted by stobor at 6:58 AM on September 2, 2015


stobor, it's called Hawk Eye, and you're allowed to ask for a Hawk Eye check three times per set if you disagree with the line judges or umpire. I guess it's not used full-time because it'd slow the game down, as it doesn't seem a particularly automated procedure.
posted by Static Vagabond at 7:11 AM on September 2, 2015


I think it would be easier if you could see the entire flight of the ball.

Actually it is not easier (on a service line call) because the speed of the ball is such that your eyes don't have time to sufficiently focus on the line.

You are taught to literally stare at the area of the line.
posted by notreally at 7:44 AM on September 2, 2015


When it was introduced it's possible that Hawk Eye wasn't able to be used in real time since it involves analyzing the video feed from multiple cameras and extrapolating the flight of the ball through the air, the speed at which it travels and the shape of the ball as it deforms when it strikes the ground.

With that said, Hawk Eye is being used today in British soccer as a way to detect if the ball completely crosses the goal line. The referee is alerted almost instantaneously via a wristwatch that buzzes. Arguably soccer is a harder problem considering how many obstacles (players and referee) are between the cameras and the goal line. My guess is that tennis is so wrapped up in tradition that they aren't willing to fully go to completely automated judging. Baseball is similarly ensconced in tradition and they are resisting this even though the computer can call balls and strikes. Arguably the computer would be a whole lot more consistent than human umpires.
posted by mmascolino at 8:14 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


yeah, I think analyzing high fps video from several cameras in realtime is something a 5-figure computer system could easily do today. And I get that 'tradition' is the excuse that gets trotted out. Teams, players, owners, etc probably love the fact they can blame a 3rd party for a close loss. I just don't get why fans care for that tradition. Especially given how much I hear "the refs are against us" when watching in public. /derail
posted by stobor at 8:33 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Arguably it is still an expensive solution for some sports. The estimates I've seen are in the neighborhood of a quarter million dollars per stadium and that doesn't count the upkeep costs. Since most of these systems require the computer doing math on video feeds from multiple cameras in well known positions, it requires the cameras to be precisely calibrated. This is probably justifiable at major league baseball stadiums and premiership soccer stadiums but tough to use exclusively at a tennis tournament when there are dozens of courts being used.
posted by mmascolino at 8:49 AM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


5/5
5/5
5/5
2/5

Never played a full game of tennis in my life, but I've done a lot of geometry.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:32 AM on September 2, 2015


Teams, players, owners, etc probably love the fact they can blame a 3rd party for a close loss. I just don't get why fans care for that tradition

Ask a dozen fans, get a dozen answers. Probably most casual fans don't care or would prefer a computer.

I disagree about players/coaches. Any high performing competitor I've met has so much self-confidence that most earnestly believe that the call would go their way if the judge was accurate. You don't get to the pros by loving excuses.

Me personally, I'm a baseball fan who loves human umpires for the simple reason that human umpires are so freaking good for most calls. I think being able to consistently call a runner safe/out or ball/strikes is almost as impressive a feat in human achievement as being able to hit a fast ball. The relationship between a pitcher and an umpire is also a fun part of the game, that pitchers will adjust their location to different umpires and umpires will adjust the zone to pitchers who consistently and accurately paint the corners is a fun part of the game.

Though I will grudgingly agree that baseline umps are terrible at calling homerun balls in modern stadiums with complex multilevel outfield stands from 200 ft away. I'm all for computers/videos homerun calls.
posted by midmarch snowman at 2:10 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I guess it's not used full-time because it'd slow the game down, as it doesn't seem a particularly automated procedure.

In a game that has HawkEye, the automated version is used for every serve. This goes off whenever something hits the trigger area, which is set to be the area immediately behind the service line - but the serve is a very rigid moment and you can be completely positive that the only thing crossing the service line is the ball, you don't have the player standing near it. You can't use this for the other lines during a point because so often the player is standing on the line as the ball lands, or running back and forth over the line as the ball approaches.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:14 PM on September 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


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