India, Inc
September 6, 2015 5:11 AM Subscribe
To clarify: I find it interesting that nowhere in this fawning backrub of an article does it mention how Murthy actually built his fortune, which is to say by exploiting loopholes in and inconsistent enforcement of American visa laws.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:19 AM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 8:19 AM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
infini - maybe it would help if you explained why you found this article interesting?
posted by amtho at 10:09 AM on September 6, 2015
posted by amtho at 10:09 AM on September 6, 2015
Over 10 years ago I was working for a consulting company that got acquired by Infosys. The company's owner and a honcho from Infosys (I think it was Murthy himself but I can't swear to it) stood up on the stage in front of us and did the usual blah blah blah about "synergy" and "great match in corporate culture". The usual crap that happens when management is talking about a merger or acquisition. Honcho was telling us about Infosys, and told us this anecdote (distilled to its relevant points) to help us understand his company:
Infosys manager sees peon in the elevator looking like shit, and berates him for his unprofessional appearance. Peon apologizes profusely, explains he's been working so hard he hasn't had time to go home, and has been sleeping in his office.
This story made a strong impression on me, for three reasons:
1. The employee was working extremely unhealthy hours. Of course, this is not unique to Infosys.
2. The manager didn't know that the employee had been working such unhealthy hours.
3. This is the kicker - Infosys thought this was a good story to tell us. At a presentation where Infosys is explaining itself to it's acquired employees, they trot out a story that prominently brags about #1 and #2.
I already had one foot out the door for other reasons before the acquisition, but I couldn't get out fast enough after that.
posted by microscone at 10:21 AM on September 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
Infosys manager sees peon in the elevator looking like shit, and berates him for his unprofessional appearance. Peon apologizes profusely, explains he's been working so hard he hasn't had time to go home, and has been sleeping in his office.
This story made a strong impression on me, for three reasons:
1. The employee was working extremely unhealthy hours. Of course, this is not unique to Infosys.
2. The manager didn't know that the employee had been working such unhealthy hours.
3. This is the kicker - Infosys thought this was a good story to tell us. At a presentation where Infosys is explaining itself to it's acquired employees, they trot out a story that prominently brags about #1 and #2.
I already had one foot out the door for other reasons before the acquisition, but I couldn't get out fast enough after that.
posted by microscone at 10:21 AM on September 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
Doubt a hagiography on an Infosys executive is likely to go down well with Americans at any time of year, but it's particularly ironic (to Americans) to see one during Labor Day Weekend.
posted by at by at 11:24 AM on September 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by at by at 11:24 AM on September 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
Muhneymuhneymuhney muuhney.
posted by clavdivs at 11:31 AM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 11:31 AM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
NarayanaMurthy isn't the Infosys you are talking about. This article is the first I've ever seen about him. Its believable, that generation, his particular community/caste/clan/class, all of this makes sense. A similar one could have been written, on the values, maybe not the specific details, about my own grandfather, or father. That's why it caught my attention. I've stopped thinking of MetaFilter as an American site for Americans, I guess and it never struck me at all that this would be the response to this article. Welp, you live and learn.
Murthy created the entrepreneurial class as you know of it. Sure, HCL and PCL existed before Infosys but the inflection point of change in the corporate culture, in a generation's ambitions and crucially, in the breaking of caste barriers to business, these factors are considered the influence and impact of Infosys.
My generation was the last to be forced into narrow paths of engineering, medicine or the civil service. Business was only for the scions of business families or merchants and traders of the merchant caste. Not for Brahmins - they studied engineering and went abroad to become professors and startup founders in the US.
With NarayanaMurthy, this changed. It wasn't the lower castes like Shiv Nadar of HCL or Patni of PCS but the Tamil Brahmins! in entrepreneurship! creating the Bangalore that your generation knows but mine never saw as it was a one horse town when I graduated from university. The US was the only path out for my cohort.
You may choose to think whatever you like about him and his organization. I have my opinions on Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and later, Omidyar and Bezos. But what they ignited in the Valley and the West Coast, Murthy and his cohort ignited in Bangalore.
That is what I found interesting about this article.
posted by infini at 12:24 PM on September 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
Murthy created the entrepreneurial class as you know of it. Sure, HCL and PCL existed before Infosys but the inflection point of change in the corporate culture, in a generation's ambitions and crucially, in the breaking of caste barriers to business, these factors are considered the influence and impact of Infosys.
My generation was the last to be forced into narrow paths of engineering, medicine or the civil service. Business was only for the scions of business families or merchants and traders of the merchant caste. Not for Brahmins - they studied engineering and went abroad to become professors and startup founders in the US.
With NarayanaMurthy, this changed. It wasn't the lower castes like Shiv Nadar of HCL or Patni of PCS but the Tamil Brahmins! in entrepreneurship! creating the Bangalore that your generation knows but mine never saw as it was a one horse town when I graduated from university. The US was the only path out for my cohort.
You may choose to think whatever you like about him and his organization. I have my opinions on Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and later, Omidyar and Bezos. But what they ignited in the Valley and the West Coast, Murthy and his cohort ignited in Bangalore.
That is what I found interesting about this article.
posted by infini at 12:24 PM on September 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
exploiting loopholes in and inconsistent enforcement of American visa laws...
Doubt a hagiography on an Infosys executive is likely to go down well with Americans at any time of year, but it's particularly ironic (to Americans) to see one during Labor Day Weekend...
Not everything in the world is about America. Get used to it, because that is becoming increasingly more and more the case.
posted by splitpeasoup at 12:29 PM on September 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
Doubt a hagiography on an Infosys executive is likely to go down well with Americans at any time of year, but it's particularly ironic (to Americans) to see one during Labor Day Weekend...
Not everything in the world is about America. Get used to it, because that is becoming increasingly more and more the case.
posted by splitpeasoup at 12:29 PM on September 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
For no reason but to balance the perspective. I speak as the daughter and granddaughter of CEOs, a scion of a business family, and a 4th generation engineer from India. In his era, a Murthy would have ended up, at most, the COO in a business family's conglomerate, not founder. We know what he did.
The most significant change to the management of large companies in the U.S. and Europe over the past 25 years has been the outsourcing of back-office processes. Much of that work has ended up in India, at Bangalore-based tech companies such as Infosys and Wipro, and at Tata Consultancy Services in Mumbai. No man did more to spark that revolution than Narayana Murthy, the visionary founder of Infosys, who is regarded as the father of Indian information technology. In building a multibillion-dollar software and IT services firm, he showed that Indian companies could compete with the best in the world.
He cleans his own toilet. He cleans his plate after his meals. Great sense of dignity of labor.
[This would be meaningless to you. Brahmins don't do this. Only untouchables do. That is why Gandhi did it]
posted by infini at 12:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
The most significant change to the management of large companies in the U.S. and Europe over the past 25 years has been the outsourcing of back-office processes. Much of that work has ended up in India, at Bangalore-based tech companies such as Infosys and Wipro, and at Tata Consultancy Services in Mumbai. No man did more to spark that revolution than Narayana Murthy, the visionary founder of Infosys, who is regarded as the father of Indian information technology. In building a multibillion-dollar software and IT services firm, he showed that Indian companies could compete with the best in the world.
He cleans his own toilet. He cleans his plate after his meals. Great sense of dignity of labor.
[This would be meaningless to you. Brahmins don't do this. Only untouchables do. That is why Gandhi did it]
posted by infini at 12:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
Complaining about Indians and Chinese, perhaps with irregular paperwork, stealing American jobs is goodthink one hears from good people.
Complaining about Mexicans and Guatemalans, perhaps with irregular paperwork, stealing American jobs is wrongthink one hears from bad people.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 12:49 PM on September 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
Complaining about Mexicans and Guatemalans, perhaps with irregular paperwork, stealing American jobs is wrongthink one hears from bad people.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 12:49 PM on September 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
infini, thank you for explaining a little about him. I read the article, quickly, but had no idea why I should be interested in him, since I hadn't personally heard of him before (I'm not Indian). This is interesting and inspiring!
I do kind of wish you had included this kind of description with the original posting/link - knowing this as I read the article would have made me pay closer attention!
posted by amtho at 4:42 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
I do kind of wish you had included this kind of description with the original posting/link - knowing this as I read the article would have made me pay closer attention!
posted by amtho at 4:42 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
I do kind of wish you had included this kind of description with the original posting/link
That would have editorialized the FPP?
posted by infini at 5:41 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
That would have editorialized the FPP?
posted by infini at 5:41 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's a fine line between adding information and editorializing, but this one could have used more context since most of the audience here is ignorant to the significance of the person.
posted by The Michael The at 7:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Michael The at 7:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
He cleans his own toilet. He cleans his plate after his meals. Great sense of dignity of labor.
This would be meaningless to you.
Why? We are just as surprised at CEOs and business founders in the United States who fly coach or take huge pay cuts so that employees can be paid a living wage. No need to presume about your audience.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:09 AM on September 7, 2015
This would be meaningless to you.
Why? We are just as surprised at CEOs and business founders in the United States who fly coach or take huge pay cuts so that employees can be paid a living wage. No need to presume about your audience.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:09 AM on September 7, 2015
No need to presume about your audience.
Come now, this thread is evidence enough of the fallacy of your recommended course of action.
posted by infini at 2:34 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Come now, this thread is evidence enough of the fallacy of your recommended course of action.
posted by infini at 2:34 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Good post as usual! Thanks infini.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:02 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:02 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
this thread is evidence enough of the fallacy of your recommended course of action
A few people were snarky. Other people -- maybe a lot -- looked at the single link, wondered briefly about it, and then just moved on without reading it. Or maybe they read it a little and, as I very nearly did, briefly wondered about the reason it was posted, said nothing, and quickly forgot about it.
I actually wondered if this link was posted as part of a public relations strategy. However, once I looked at your posting history, it was clear you were sincere and thoughtful. So, I posted my comments here. As a result, a few more Americans and others now know a little more about Indian culture and this guy in particular.
Please don't assume you know everything about how all Americans think. Lots of them are sincere in wanting to truly understand the feelings and experiences and particularities of other parts of the world. Some of them even want to do what they can to compensate for, or help educate, other Americans who really don't have a clue. It's not one big homogenous society.
posted by amtho at 7:25 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
A few people were snarky. Other people -- maybe a lot -- looked at the single link, wondered briefly about it, and then just moved on without reading it. Or maybe they read it a little and, as I very nearly did, briefly wondered about the reason it was posted, said nothing, and quickly forgot about it.
I actually wondered if this link was posted as part of a public relations strategy. However, once I looked at your posting history, it was clear you were sincere and thoughtful. So, I posted my comments here. As a result, a few more Americans and others now know a little more about Indian culture and this guy in particular.
Please don't assume you know everything about how all Americans think. Lots of them are sincere in wanting to truly understand the feelings and experiences and particularities of other parts of the world. Some of them even want to do what they can to compensate for, or help educate, other Americans who really don't have a clue. It's not one big homogenous society.
posted by amtho at 7:25 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Metafilter always forgets it isn't just American. Go into any thread about the UK or AU or NZ.
I take the point about the caste system, I've never been to India, and I don't think about caste except when it is the issue. Certainly, the idea of a wealthy Brahmin cleaning a toilet would be an order of magnitude more shocking than even the most 'old money' American doing so.
It will be interesting to see how history views globalisation of white collar jobs. I can't help but think it will be viewed as a positive, the same way we think that the industrial revolution was a net positive, even though those displaced at the time were miserably treated.
posted by bystander at 7:02 PM on September 8, 2015
I take the point about the caste system, I've never been to India, and I don't think about caste except when it is the issue. Certainly, the idea of a wealthy Brahmin cleaning a toilet would be an order of magnitude more shocking than even the most 'old money' American doing so.
It will be interesting to see how history views globalisation of white collar jobs. I can't help but think it will be viewed as a positive, the same way we think that the industrial revolution was a net positive, even though those displaced at the time were miserably treated.
posted by bystander at 7:02 PM on September 8, 2015
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Huh, that's weird.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:02 AM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]