Josh Marshall Builds a Sailboat
September 6, 2015 7:15 PM Subscribe
Josh Marshall built a sailboat. Josh Marshall, the editor and proprietor of now-venerable political blog Talking Points Memo, had a fascinating post today. After his son wanted to collect driftwood, Marshall thought of making a model boat for his son. Then he asked himself why he could not build an actual boat. So he did.
Marshall writes a long and thoughtful piece about making the sailboat for his son. He delves into the how-to and the less practical questions regarding work and hobbies and how to sail.
Marshall writes a long and thoughtful piece about making the sailboat for his son. He delves into the how-to and the less practical questions regarding work and hobbies and how to sail.
I like it when Josh Marshall just writes about his life a little like this; I know TPM is a political blog, and as the years have gone by its become a lot more structurally refined in that direction especially with the front page content, but the random bits of Marshall's personal thoughts and non-political randomness are what made it a regular read for me in the first place.
I felt kind of bad that despite enjoying the piece I kept waiting for the Trump metaphor that never came.
posted by cortex at 7:42 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I felt kind of bad that despite enjoying the piece I kept waiting for the Trump metaphor that never came.
posted by cortex at 7:42 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is there?
Yeah, sure. People do it with much more traditional processes, and the kit makes it easy.
Well...it's cool. Anything like this is bound to be satisfying. I spent a lot of my career around wooden boatbuilding shops, and know lots of people who make boats, so I still kinda wish he'd taken any of a number of 1-week traditional boatbuilding classes where he could have learned enough to build a boat only out of wood (and rivets) and had the skills to build any plan boat he wants, without need of a kit and such a massive dependence on epoxy. There's something funny about that impetus to solve everything with the internet, when 35 hours over 5 days with someone who knows a lot is really your fastest teacher, and there's only one way to learn physical skills. Still, I guess this is what kits like this are made for and he clearly had fun and found it satisfying and the boat is pretty.
I've taken one of those classes, but have not yet gotten around to building my own actual boat, and may never. But if you're considering it: just take a class.
posted by Miko at 7:43 PM on September 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah, sure. People do it with much more traditional processes, and the kit makes it easy.
Well...it's cool. Anything like this is bound to be satisfying. I spent a lot of my career around wooden boatbuilding shops, and know lots of people who make boats, so I still kinda wish he'd taken any of a number of 1-week traditional boatbuilding classes where he could have learned enough to build a boat only out of wood (and rivets) and had the skills to build any plan boat he wants, without need of a kit and such a massive dependence on epoxy. There's something funny about that impetus to solve everything with the internet, when 35 hours over 5 days with someone who knows a lot is really your fastest teacher, and there's only one way to learn physical skills. Still, I guess this is what kits like this are made for and he clearly had fun and found it satisfying and the boat is pretty.
I've taken one of those classes, but have not yet gotten around to building my own actual boat, and may never. But if you're considering it: just take a class.
posted by Miko at 7:43 PM on September 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah, sure. People do it with much more traditional processes, and the kit makes it easy.
Just to clarify, the place he ordered from sells kits, but he built his boat from a set of plans only.
Every time one of these articles about garage boat building gets posted, it makes me want to give it a try. It seems like something mostly done by men a decade or two older, though, so maybe it just isn't my time yet.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:52 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just to clarify, the place he ordered from sells kits, but he built his boat from a set of plans only.
Every time one of these articles about garage boat building gets posted, it makes me want to give it a try. It seems like something mostly done by men a decade or two older, though, so maybe it just isn't my time yet.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:52 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
he built his boat from a set of plans only
Oh yeah. But also, the kit would have been the same stuff he went and got on his own, plus the plans. It's a kit boat plan. It's not traditional boatbuilding, is more my point.
maybe it just isn't my time yet.
Nah, go ahead! A few of my friends started boat projects in their 20s and 30s. One women in my "Boatbuilding for Women" class was in her 20s and built hers in a Manhattan apartment. There's no age restriction on getting this particular bug. Mainly you just need to have some place you can make a mess and aren't going to leave for many months.
posted by Miko at 8:00 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah. But also, the kit would have been the same stuff he went and got on his own, plus the plans. It's a kit boat plan. It's not traditional boatbuilding, is more my point.
maybe it just isn't my time yet.
Nah, go ahead! A few of my friends started boat projects in their 20s and 30s. One women in my "Boatbuilding for Women" class was in her 20s and built hers in a Manhattan apartment. There's no age restriction on getting this particular bug. Mainly you just need to have some place you can make a mess and aren't going to leave for many months.
posted by Miko at 8:00 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Any sailboat is a nice sailboat, and a sailboat for a parent and child doubly so.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:04 PM on September 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:04 PM on September 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Great job, Josh. Now get back to work covering what Paula Deen is Tweeting about that KY county clerk.
posted by one_bean at 8:06 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by one_bean at 8:06 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
When you're job is "covering what Paula Deen is Tweeting about that KY county clerk", you NEED a sailboat.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:20 PM on September 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:20 PM on September 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
Every time one of these articles about garage boat building gets posted, it makes me want to give it a try. It seems like something mostly done by men a decade or two older, though, so maybe it just isn't my time yet.
It does seem to be a thing a lot of guys dream about, along with taking off and boating around the world. I admit that though I like boats well enough and admire their usefulness, this is a fascination that entirely escapes me.
posted by emjaybee at 8:25 PM on September 6, 2015
It does seem to be a thing a lot of guys dream about, along with taking off and boating around the world. I admit that though I like boats well enough and admire their usefulness, this is a fascination that entirely escapes me.
posted by emjaybee at 8:25 PM on September 6, 2015
On the old men thing: Yes, this is definitely more common for retires dudes, but my girlfriend and I built one in our mid-twenties. It was not a very good boat, but it only cost like $150, didn't take much time, and it was fun. It was nowhere near as nice looking as this example (the sail was a tarp, the whole thing was covered in off-tint discount house paint, and it was only 8ft long), but it was a boat that we could legitimately sail around in.
I recommend that anyone who is considering this, just give it a try. There are much simpler plans out there than the design shown, so you can try it out without a huge commitment. Sure, fancy tools make it easier, but you can totally build a boat with a circular saw and a drill (we did) or even with hand tools.
posted by ssg at 8:33 PM on September 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
I recommend that anyone who is considering this, just give it a try. There are much simpler plans out there than the design shown, so you can try it out without a huge commitment. Sure, fancy tools make it easier, but you can totally build a boat with a circular saw and a drill (we did) or even with hand tools.
posted by ssg at 8:33 PM on September 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
It started out as a story about a father and son doing something together and became about the father and his newfound love of woodworking. Wanted more father-son interaction. I hope his son helped. He is in one of the pictures, but I hope they spent time together rather than Josh Marshall just spending his free time in the garage alone with his tools.
Maybe it is because I did not know to TPM or the author before and this is not his typical written piece, but while I liked it, it left me wanting more and wondering about his son.
posted by AugustWest at 8:37 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe it is because I did not know to TPM or the author before and this is not his typical written piece, but while I liked it, it left me wanting more and wondering about his son.
posted by AugustWest at 8:37 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah...I feel like that has a tendency to happen to the projects that are "for the kids."
posted by Miko at 8:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 8:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've taken one of those classes, but have not yet gotten around to building my own actual boat, and may never.
I'll take my advice from the person who actually made and did a thing.
posted by curious nu at 8:46 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'll take my advice from the person who actually made and did a thing.
posted by curious nu at 8:46 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
One problem is that, depending on the age of the kids, they may not want to help dad. A friend has a son who has mechanical inclinations, but because that's his dad's hobby, never wanted to do anything with dad involving that stuff. The kid eventually started fixing up bikes, because his dad only worked on cars.
posted by maxwelton at 8:47 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 8:47 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'll take my advice from the person who actually made and did a thing.
Yeah, admittedly, I was reared around a lot of traditional wooden-boat snobs. But I just wish people who were interested in the form would learn the actual craft instead of an approximation. It's not even harder. Thanks to instruction, I know how to build wooden boats, and thanks to working in watercraft museums, I've worked on repairing and maintaining a lot of wooden boats, schooners, and ships and around a lot of boatbuilding activity. When I think about why I don't have the impetus to build my own, there are a good number of reasons: I'm a renter, I have nowhere to keep it (either during build or after launch), I don't want to spend all the money ($1000 +/- to build, more for moorings and trailers and such), I have no way to transport it, I don't want to have to maintain it, and I have other projects I'd rather do right now.
My central point: anyone can learn the skills to build wooden boats, and not just by following one kind of plan, but by learning a pretty simple set of skills you can then apply to any boat plan, even one of your own devising.
Still, he's happy, he built a boat and learned some basics, and he has a boat and it might last a few years.
they may not want to help dad
Yeah - and sometimes, dads are not the greatest at discerning this or thinking about what might really interest the kids, disambiguating between kids and self.
posted by Miko at 8:52 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, admittedly, I was reared around a lot of traditional wooden-boat snobs. But I just wish people who were interested in the form would learn the actual craft instead of an approximation. It's not even harder. Thanks to instruction, I know how to build wooden boats, and thanks to working in watercraft museums, I've worked on repairing and maintaining a lot of wooden boats, schooners, and ships and around a lot of boatbuilding activity. When I think about why I don't have the impetus to build my own, there are a good number of reasons: I'm a renter, I have nowhere to keep it (either during build or after launch), I don't want to spend all the money ($1000 +/- to build, more for moorings and trailers and such), I have no way to transport it, I don't want to have to maintain it, and I have other projects I'd rather do right now.
My central point: anyone can learn the skills to build wooden boats, and not just by following one kind of plan, but by learning a pretty simple set of skills you can then apply to any boat plan, even one of your own devising.
Still, he's happy, he built a boat and learned some basics, and he has a boat and it might last a few years.
they may not want to help dad
Yeah - and sometimes, dads are not the greatest at discerning this or thinking about what might really interest the kids, disambiguating between kids and self.
posted by Miko at 8:52 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
When you're job is "covering what Paula Deen is Tweeting about that KY county clerk", you NEED a sailboat.
Make Life Better with a Sailboat-in-a-Closet.*
* A minor classic of the middle-aged-guy-responds-to-personal-disaster-by-boatbuilding genre.
posted by ryanshepard at 8:56 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Make Life Better with a Sailboat-in-a-Closet.*
* A minor classic of the middle-aged-guy-responds-to-personal-disaster-by-boatbuilding genre.
posted by ryanshepard at 8:56 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's fantastic! My dad has built several kit boats (drift boats, not sail boats) with plans purchased from a different venerable kit boat plan vending company. It is absolutely something one can do in a well sorted garage shop, and apparently very satisfying. How could it not be? You've built a boat!
Anyway, as someone who was just talked out of launching a home wine making project, good for Mr Marshall for sticking to his guns, and embarking on, and completing, such a significant, er, endeavour.
posted by notyou at 8:57 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyway, as someone who was just talked out of launching a home wine making project, good for Mr Marshall for sticking to his guns, and embarking on, and completing, such a significant, er, endeavour.
posted by notyou at 8:57 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wood is not the only or best material for building boats. Boats are built from steel, aluminum, fiberglass, even concrete.
posted by JackFlash at 9:21 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 9:21 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm glad to see him touching on hand tools and Paul Sellers. We've been conditioned to think that nothing can be accomplished without industrial equipment like table saws, routers, drill presses, biscuit joiners, etc.... that's before you even get to the hell that is sanding. These tools take up a lot of floor space, create horrifying levels of noise, are potentially far more dangerous and require dust control and lots of uncomfortable safety equipment.
Check out Paul Sellers' sharpening videos. Sharpen up a plane. A plane creates straight, smooth surfaces. So much is possible.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:24 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Check out Paul Sellers' sharpening videos. Sharpen up a plane. A plane creates straight, smooth surfaces. So much is possible.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:24 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wood is not the only or best material for building boats.
It's such a topic. For any value of "best" you have to ask for whom, and for what application. Ultimately, wood's probably best for most small-boat forms (outside of canoes and non-skin kayaks) that you're going to build rather than purchase, though you can debate about plastic being more lightweight, and other materials being a lot cheaper, once you've invested in the equipment to build with. But those other materials tend to fit better in more in mass production, where an economy of scale is going to work you. Absent a thermoform injection molder, you're not going to be making your own plastic boats in the garage, nor are you going to pop out dozens of fiberglass hulls by making molds to spray that stuff onto, or bend sheet metal. Wood is something boatbuilders value because of its all-around properties that really favor the one-off, garage hobbyist as well as the career boatbuilder. It's cheap, unlike fiberglass it's easy to repair, it is the material specified in a near-infinite variety of existing boat plans all ready to work with, it's so long-lasting that it's not hard to find 75- 100-year-old wooden boats still functioning beautifully in many harbors, and unlike other materials it can be worked with simple hand tools, requiring nothing in the way of sheet metal bending, fiberglass spraying, or respirators (Josh talks honestly about the nastiness of dealing with epoxy - not nice stuff). Mastering a small (under a dozen) number of techniques in wooden boatbuilding creates a flexible vocabulary that can generate thousands of different boat forms.
There are a lot of things to make a boat from - after all, a boat is just a box open on the top, like Josh says, and people can make them from milk cartons, soda bottles, and all kinds of other materials (the concrete ship is a great example of how displacement, not material weight, rules the day) - but wood is such a time-honored, popular boatbuilding material for the good reason that it combines longevity, durability, ease of construction, ability to build without a specialized shop, good strength-to-weight ratio, low cost to build and low cost to own, repairability, and low tech.
posted by Miko at 9:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's such a topic. For any value of "best" you have to ask for whom, and for what application. Ultimately, wood's probably best for most small-boat forms (outside of canoes and non-skin kayaks) that you're going to build rather than purchase, though you can debate about plastic being more lightweight, and other materials being a lot cheaper, once you've invested in the equipment to build with. But those other materials tend to fit better in more in mass production, where an economy of scale is going to work you. Absent a thermoform injection molder, you're not going to be making your own plastic boats in the garage, nor are you going to pop out dozens of fiberglass hulls by making molds to spray that stuff onto, or bend sheet metal. Wood is something boatbuilders value because of its all-around properties that really favor the one-off, garage hobbyist as well as the career boatbuilder. It's cheap, unlike fiberglass it's easy to repair, it is the material specified in a near-infinite variety of existing boat plans all ready to work with, it's so long-lasting that it's not hard to find 75- 100-year-old wooden boats still functioning beautifully in many harbors, and unlike other materials it can be worked with simple hand tools, requiring nothing in the way of sheet metal bending, fiberglass spraying, or respirators (Josh talks honestly about the nastiness of dealing with epoxy - not nice stuff). Mastering a small (under a dozen) number of techniques in wooden boatbuilding creates a flexible vocabulary that can generate thousands of different boat forms.
There are a lot of things to make a boat from - after all, a boat is just a box open on the top, like Josh says, and people can make them from milk cartons, soda bottles, and all kinds of other materials (the concrete ship is a great example of how displacement, not material weight, rules the day) - but wood is such a time-honored, popular boatbuilding material for the good reason that it combines longevity, durability, ease of construction, ability to build without a specialized shop, good strength-to-weight ratio, low cost to build and low cost to own, repairability, and low tech.
posted by Miko at 9:40 PM on September 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think the virtue of the epoxy kit/plan was that it was something he could do entirely on his own, without having to take a class. It seems like the boat project sparked a deeper interest in traditional woodworking, so perhaps Mr Marshall's next project will be a making a boat in a more traditional way. He admits that his main impetus for finishing the boat--after getting sidelined by his interest in traditional woodworking methods--was simply to finish the project he started.
posted by mokin at 10:02 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mokin at 10:02 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I live on a boat, moored next to a Boat Builders yard.
They rent out space for people who want to build wooden boats, so the shed is always full of lovely wooden boats in various stages of construction (there's also a luthier there, which is cool, but not relevant)
When I have "finished" fitting out the inside of my boat (and when my daughter is a little older) I always thought it would be nice to rent a bit of workshop space and build a boat with her, figuring out the relevant skills as we went along. If only so that when she had to take woodworking in school she would be ridiculously adept before the first class (which I imagine is a rarity these days).
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:21 AM on September 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
They rent out space for people who want to build wooden boats, so the shed is always full of lovely wooden boats in various stages of construction (there's also a luthier there, which is cool, but not relevant)
When I have "finished" fitting out the inside of my boat (and when my daughter is a little older) I always thought it would be nice to rent a bit of workshop space and build a boat with her, figuring out the relevant skills as we went along. If only so that when she had to take woodworking in school she would be ridiculously adept before the first class (which I imagine is a rarity these days).
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:21 AM on September 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
...Collect driftwood...model boat...build actual boat...so he did....
PLYWOOD?!?%!&!!?
Color me disappointed.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:53 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
PLYWOOD?!?%!&!!?
Color me disappointed.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:53 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
But I just wish people who were interested in the form would learn the actual craft instead of an approximation.
To me, the stitch and epoxy method is an interesting technique made possible by modern materials, rather than a bastardization of older techniques. There are things possible using it that aren't with traditional wooden boat building, and vice versa, because the strength comes in a different way.
I guess what I'm saying is that personally I find the more idiosyncratic approaches to boat building (including concrete and other odd materials) more interesting than the hyper-faithful recreations of traditional techniques, but for actual use I'd put my money on the traditional forms because of the history and knowledge contained in that tradition. For me it is a totally academic question -- I live a long way from the ocean and only find boat building interesting as something that looks like fun, while owning a boat would be about the least useful thing I could possibly add to my life.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:28 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
To me, the stitch and epoxy method is an interesting technique made possible by modern materials, rather than a bastardization of older techniques. There are things possible using it that aren't with traditional wooden boat building, and vice versa, because the strength comes in a different way.
I guess what I'm saying is that personally I find the more idiosyncratic approaches to boat building (including concrete and other odd materials) more interesting than the hyper-faithful recreations of traditional techniques, but for actual use I'd put my money on the traditional forms because of the history and knowledge contained in that tradition. For me it is a totally academic question -- I live a long way from the ocean and only find boat building interesting as something that looks like fun, while owning a boat would be about the least useful thing I could possibly add to my life.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:28 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
..Collect driftwood...
I was also expecting a funky "burning man" style driftwood boat, but any boat building is a fine andnoble insane project. Before you start have a large ventilated workspace, a full woodshop set of tools (was that 20 or 30 C clamps?) and live right next to the water (or have a pickup truck, wood boats are not subway or car-top friendly).
May I suggest inflatable kayak. ;-)
posted by sammyo at 5:30 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was also expecting a funky "burning man" style driftwood boat, but any boat building is a fine and
May I suggest inflatable kayak. ;-)
posted by sammyo at 5:30 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're right, Dip Flash, the playing with the form is fun.
Sammyo, good list, but a note: if keeping to wood, it's surprising how little you need. Handsaw, bow saw, jig saw, hand drill, mallet, draw knife, a bunch of planes, and a bunch of chisels. Pencil, compass, ruler/square. A vise.
The boatbuilders who I worked with and taught my class spent a lot of time on tools. They always looked for antique tools, because they were adamant that hand tools were far better made a century ago than they are now. They would scour flea markets and go to tool auctions. There's something beautiful about seeing a dozen old planes lined up by size.
A lot of what the love of boatbuilding comes down to is any kind of long, somewhat complex project where you work with your hands and mind. A really great book on why that is so satisfying (and frustrating) is Peter Korn's Craft: Why we Make Things and Why it Matters.
posted by Miko at 5:51 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Sammyo, good list, but a note: if keeping to wood, it's surprising how little you need. Handsaw, bow saw, jig saw, hand drill, mallet, draw knife, a bunch of planes, and a bunch of chisels. Pencil, compass, ruler/square. A vise.
The boatbuilders who I worked with and taught my class spent a lot of time on tools. They always looked for antique tools, because they were adamant that hand tools were far better made a century ago than they are now. They would scour flea markets and go to tool auctions. There's something beautiful about seeing a dozen old planes lined up by size.
A lot of what the love of boatbuilding comes down to is any kind of long, somewhat complex project where you work with your hands and mind. A really great book on why that is so satisfying (and frustrating) is Peter Korn's Craft: Why we Make Things and Why it Matters.
posted by Miko at 5:51 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Looks like a metaphor for American politics: middle-aged white guy with no skill or experience takes some traditional materials, gets directions from established, unelected corporate interests, and ends up with a plastic-coated vehicle that you control with a dagger.
posted by blue_beetle at 6:52 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 6:52 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Modern fiberglass boats are a god send for people who actually sail and criticizing this guy for making a dingy like this as is first ever woodworking project is the absolute apotheoses of wood boat snobbery.
Wood boats have many many drawbacks and positioning them as some superior good is just bullshit.
posted by JPD at 6:55 AM on September 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Wood boats have many many drawbacks and positioning them as some superior good is just bullshit.
posted by JPD at 6:55 AM on September 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
I built an 18 foot gaff-rigged sloop in my garage.
It's a Weekender, based on plans I bought from Stevenson Bros. I built it from scratch.
It took about three years of weekends. When I put it in the water, on the Erie Canal EVERYBODY stops and comments on it, compared to my 40 foot cruiser, which never gets a second look.
There's just something about a small wooden boat that tugs at peoples imaginations. No pun intended.
posted by valkane at 6:59 AM on September 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
It's a Weekender, based on plans I bought from Stevenson Bros. I built it from scratch.
It took about three years of weekends. When I put it in the water, on the Erie Canal EVERYBODY stops and comments on it, compared to my 40 foot cruiser, which never gets a second look.
There's just something about a small wooden boat that tugs at peoples imaginations. No pun intended.
posted by valkane at 6:59 AM on September 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
It seems like something mostly done by men a decade or two older, though, so maybe it just isn't my time yet.
I did something like this in my early twenties, so not necessarily. Me and a friend needed a long term project to keep us from going to the bars seven nights a week through a long Arctic winter. Marine plywood, stitch and glue. We worked in a small shed overlooking Yellowknife's Back Bay with a tiny wood stove burning off cuts for heat, eveings and weekends. So much of the author's piece echoes my experience, especially the realization that the "finishing" (paint, varnish, fittings) was as many hours as the building. Probably more. I also had a long break in the middle -- I moved back South to Ottawa with the built (but unfinished) boat on the roof of my truck, thinking I'd finish it up there but it languished in my parents garage for two years. I then applied to and was accepted into grad school, and realized that once I began grad school, the project would be back burnered for ever. I had to get this done.
I had four weeks or so before an Arctic field season and then a PhD out of the country. It took some time to get a space set up in my parents' falling over garage, to round up tools and materials, the clock was definitely ticking as I got to sanding. So much sanding. Also so many setbacks ... the paint I stored in the garage over the winter wouldnt harden and needed to be hand scraped right off. Three days. Black flies getting stuck in the varnish. Figuring out seats and a rudder. It was on the Friday before my Monday departure that I realized I wasnt going to make it. I was sanding away, thinking that a week would get me there, wondering if I could come back up on weekends during the Fall, trying to get my head around it. Pretty bummed about getting so close, but also very proud for what was turning out to look like a beautiful boat (i had failed woodworking shop class in high school, I would mutter 'fuck you Mr. Cuddy' under my breath everytime something complex came together).
It was at that time my Dad strolled up the driveway, saying he wasnt quite sure he understood the message, but a certain Hamish (my boss to be for the summer) had called, something about too much ice on the lakes, and our departure was going to be delayed a week.
I got the boat in the water the next Friday. My best friend who came by for the launch described my expression: "it was like you were a five year old who had just invented Christmas").
posted by bumpkin at 7:26 AM on September 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
I did something like this in my early twenties, so not necessarily. Me and a friend needed a long term project to keep us from going to the bars seven nights a week through a long Arctic winter. Marine plywood, stitch and glue. We worked in a small shed overlooking Yellowknife's Back Bay with a tiny wood stove burning off cuts for heat, eveings and weekends. So much of the author's piece echoes my experience, especially the realization that the "finishing" (paint, varnish, fittings) was as many hours as the building. Probably more. I also had a long break in the middle -- I moved back South to Ottawa with the built (but unfinished) boat on the roof of my truck, thinking I'd finish it up there but it languished in my parents garage for two years. I then applied to and was accepted into grad school, and realized that once I began grad school, the project would be back burnered for ever. I had to get this done.
I had four weeks or so before an Arctic field season and then a PhD out of the country. It took some time to get a space set up in my parents' falling over garage, to round up tools and materials, the clock was definitely ticking as I got to sanding. So much sanding. Also so many setbacks ... the paint I stored in the garage over the winter wouldnt harden and needed to be hand scraped right off. Three days. Black flies getting stuck in the varnish. Figuring out seats and a rudder. It was on the Friday before my Monday departure that I realized I wasnt going to make it. I was sanding away, thinking that a week would get me there, wondering if I could come back up on weekends during the Fall, trying to get my head around it. Pretty bummed about getting so close, but also very proud for what was turning out to look like a beautiful boat (i had failed woodworking shop class in high school, I would mutter 'fuck you Mr. Cuddy' under my breath everytime something complex came together).
It was at that time my Dad strolled up the driveway, saying he wasnt quite sure he understood the message, but a certain Hamish (my boss to be for the summer) had called, something about too much ice on the lakes, and our departure was going to be delayed a week.
I got the boat in the water the next Friday. My best friend who came by for the launch described my expression: "it was like you were a five year old who had just invented Christmas").
posted by bumpkin at 7:26 AM on September 7, 2015 [20 favorites]
I guess the traditionalists versus everyone else debate was definitely going to end up on MeFi. I really don't get it. As far as I'm concerned, everyone should be able to build whatever kind of boat they like, using whatever materials they like. Why do the wooden boat traditionalists feel the need to police acceptable methods and materials?
We live in a wonderful modern world that has wonderful inventions like plywood and epoxy. Seriously, plywood is amazing for so many things! Instead of some cut up chunk of tree, you get a stable, flat huge flat panel. And epoxy and other resins, while definitely not that pleasant to work with on a small scale, are incredible. From boats to planes, we use the stuff everywhere and they let us do all kinds of great things.
So, why can't the wooden boat traditionalists just sharpen their hand tools and slowly and carefully assemble their boats and stop tsk-tsking anyone who wants to build a different boat? It seems like there is a certain element of lack of fairness that annoys people. Why should that dude feel good about the boat he built in X weekends, when my boat is still half-finished after 2X weekends? Obviously, that guy sucks and his boat sucks.
posted by ssg at 10:10 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
We live in a wonderful modern world that has wonderful inventions like plywood and epoxy. Seriously, plywood is amazing for so many things! Instead of some cut up chunk of tree, you get a stable, flat huge flat panel. And epoxy and other resins, while definitely not that pleasant to work with on a small scale, are incredible. From boats to planes, we use the stuff everywhere and they let us do all kinds of great things.
So, why can't the wooden boat traditionalists just sharpen their hand tools and slowly and carefully assemble their boats and stop tsk-tsking anyone who wants to build a different boat? It seems like there is a certain element of lack of fairness that annoys people. Why should that dude feel good about the boat he built in X weekends, when my boat is still half-finished after 2X weekends? Obviously, that guy sucks and his boat sucks.
posted by ssg at 10:10 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
valkane: that's an amazing boat!
posted by persona au gratin at 11:30 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 11:30 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
And you have some giant grass :)
posted by persona au gratin at 11:32 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 11:32 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
There are some really good reasons plywood and epoxy are preferable to traditional boat building methods when considered from an engineering point of view. Even though there are "chemicals" involved with the use of epoxy, over the life of the boat much fewer resources are consumed because the wood lasts so much longer, has to be re-finished much less frequently, and because the wood is not wet, much less of it is needed to get the same strength in the structure.
In my experience the traditionalist/modern wood epoxy schism is mostly a fabrication. I know a lot of wooden boat builders and enthusiasts and there are aproximately none that aren't comfortable both appreciating a fine old traditional wooden boat, and employing modern epoxy methods because they know it is a more efficient way to do the job.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:33 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my experience the traditionalist/modern wood epoxy schism is mostly a fabrication. I know a lot of wooden boat builders and enthusiasts and there are aproximately none that aren't comfortable both appreciating a fine old traditional wooden boat, and employing modern epoxy methods because they know it is a more efficient way to do the job.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:33 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you are in the PNW next weekend, visit the wooden boat festival in Port Townsend for the best of both worlds!
PT Wooden Boat Fest
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:36 AM on September 7, 2015
PT Wooden Boat Fest
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:36 AM on September 7, 2015
Why do the wooden boat traditionalists feel the need to police acceptable methods and materials?
Well, channeling more serious people a bit, love of the craft is a big part of it. Of course people who get way down the rabbit hole in any skilled craft are going to have strong opinions about what is and isn't worth doing. But the thing that most speaks to me is that if you're going to spend so much effort and time to make something, why not something that will last?Epoxy is prone to cracking and weakens as exposed to light - it's not a lifetime material, and the stitched construction is going to start flexing when the epoxy gets more brittle and sprout leaks that are hard to repair. And the danger of working with the epoxy and fiberglass are another reason to wish it were less common.
I'm not trying to be a serious killjoy. I just think that if more people were aware how it wouldn't be at all more complicated to build a better-made, longer-lasting, and safer-to-build boat, maybe more people would try it, and have something their kids and grandkids could hope to use. I don't hate fiberglass and plastic boats. I love plastic kayaks. Fiberglass boats are the basic sailboat these days, and apart from being wicked heavy and darn near irreperable if crunched against a dock or the like, they are warhorses and very affordable. So it's not that I don't think those boat materials should exist, but if you're going to build one that takes a decent amount of time and money, I think it would be a better use of effort to go with traditional technique (not style necessarily) and wood. But you're right, who cares, build whatever boat you want - just wanted to speak up that doing this at an increased level of quality is also totally learnable for anyone who wants to.
they know it is a more efficient way to do the job.
It sounds like you're talking about using epoxy to seal the boat. This set of plans uses epoxy, essentially, to plank the boat. The stitched strakes aren't watertight - only the epoxy makes them so, which means using a lot more of it, and using it in a way that integrates it into the very structure.
posted by Miko at 11:40 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, channeling more serious people a bit, love of the craft is a big part of it. Of course people who get way down the rabbit hole in any skilled craft are going to have strong opinions about what is and isn't worth doing. But the thing that most speaks to me is that if you're going to spend so much effort and time to make something, why not something that will last?Epoxy is prone to cracking and weakens as exposed to light - it's not a lifetime material, and the stitched construction is going to start flexing when the epoxy gets more brittle and sprout leaks that are hard to repair. And the danger of working with the epoxy and fiberglass are another reason to wish it were less common.
I'm not trying to be a serious killjoy. I just think that if more people were aware how it wouldn't be at all more complicated to build a better-made, longer-lasting, and safer-to-build boat, maybe more people would try it, and have something their kids and grandkids could hope to use. I don't hate fiberglass and plastic boats. I love plastic kayaks. Fiberglass boats are the basic sailboat these days, and apart from being wicked heavy and darn near irreperable if crunched against a dock or the like, they are warhorses and very affordable. So it's not that I don't think those boat materials should exist, but if you're going to build one that takes a decent amount of time and money, I think it would be a better use of effort to go with traditional technique (not style necessarily) and wood. But you're right, who cares, build whatever boat you want - just wanted to speak up that doing this at an increased level of quality is also totally learnable for anyone who wants to.
they know it is a more efficient way to do the job.
It sounds like you're talking about using epoxy to seal the boat. This set of plans uses epoxy, essentially, to plank the boat. The stitched strakes aren't watertight - only the epoxy makes them so, which means using a lot more of it, and using it in a way that integrates it into the very structure.
posted by Miko at 11:40 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Reading about the method on WoodenBoat forums, I can dig what one guy said, " It will light the fire of a lot of folks and get them off the couch." Boat stuff is a bug, people start all different places.
posted by Miko at 12:00 PM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 12:00 PM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've built a lot of cedar strip/fiberglass reinforced canoes. They weigh about 30 pounds. I also have a couple Kevlar/epoxy canoes. They weigh about 20 pounds. Both of these I can load and unload from the car by myself.
The equivalent traditional wood/canvas canoe is about 80 pounds and requires lots of annual maintenance. No thanks. Looks great sitting in your garage though.
posted by JackFlash at 12:07 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
The equivalent traditional wood/canvas canoe is about 80 pounds and requires lots of annual maintenance. No thanks. Looks great sitting in your garage though.
posted by JackFlash at 12:07 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, channeling more serious people a bit, love of the craft is a big part of it.
Perhaps it would help to conceptualize these as two different crafts: traditional boat building and modern boat building. You love the former and not the latter. That's cool. Lots of people love the latter and not so much the former. That's cool too. Or they can't make the time commitments that traditional building requires. There is still plenty of craft in making more modern boats.
There is a definite difference in terms of time and cost for traditional construction methods. It takes longer and it costs more. Given the number of boats that never get finished (or even never get started), I really can't understand the objection to lower-cost, faster methods. Maybe they won't last a lifetime, but that's OK. A traditional boat won't last a lifetime without time-consuming maintenance either.
posted by ssg at 12:09 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Perhaps it would help to conceptualize these as two different crafts: traditional boat building and modern boat building. You love the former and not the latter. That's cool. Lots of people love the latter and not so much the former. That's cool too. Or they can't make the time commitments that traditional building requires. There is still plenty of craft in making more modern boats.
There is a definite difference in terms of time and cost for traditional construction methods. It takes longer and it costs more. Given the number of boats that never get finished (or even never get started), I really can't understand the objection to lower-cost, faster methods. Maybe they won't last a lifetime, but that's OK. A traditional boat won't last a lifetime without time-consuming maintenance either.
posted by ssg at 12:09 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you want to see and learn the epitome of epoxy craftsmanship I recommend you get this affordable book by my friend Russell Brown: Epoxy Basics
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:36 PM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:36 PM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or they can't make the time commitments that traditional building requires.
I don't want to keep grinding away on this argument forever and ever, but time-wise, for a lapstrake rowing/sailing boat of about this size, it'd be about the same amount of time, based on Josh's characterization of time spent. It takes a lot of hobbyists a long time to build a boat not because it takes a ton of time to build a boat, but because they spend a lot of time not building a boat (frames of reference with some envy-inducing pics, plus wooden boat shops with two or three staff of course who did little else used to turn out several hundred a year) . I just want to speak up for the fact that this is do-able.
But consider your point made, there are thousands of kinds of boats for thousands of kinds of people and boatbuilding is a land of contrasts. I get it and wish Josh much happy tooling around on his boat.
posted by Miko at 12:54 PM on September 7, 2015
I don't want to keep grinding away on this argument forever and ever, but time-wise, for a lapstrake rowing/sailing boat of about this size, it'd be about the same amount of time, based on Josh's characterization of time spent. It takes a lot of hobbyists a long time to build a boat not because it takes a ton of time to build a boat, but because they spend a lot of time not building a boat (frames of reference with some envy-inducing pics, plus wooden boat shops with two or three staff of course who did little else used to turn out several hundred a year) . I just want to speak up for the fact that this is do-able.
But consider your point made, there are thousands of kinds of boats for thousands of kinds of people and boatbuilding is a land of contrasts. I get it and wish Josh much happy tooling around on his boat.
posted by Miko at 12:54 PM on September 7, 2015
I am so happy to read this. I loved Josh Marshall's "I did this and you can do it too" explanation and the joy that came across in his essay and his photos. It is SO GREAT that you can use the Internet to learn skills that, it used to be, it was a lot harder to learn if you didn't already know an expert who wanted to teach you, and to learn stuff if in-person classes don't suit you for whatever reason.
When it comes to learning making-stuff skills, many of us have motivations, learning styles, and so on that feel pretty foreign to each other. I've run into this in every making-stuff endeavor I've ever gotten involved in. Unfortunately we also often end up attaching prestige to certain learning styles and motivations over others, or even denying that approaches exist that we ourselves haven't seen in practice or found useful in our own educations.
posted by brainwane at 1:50 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
When it comes to learning making-stuff skills, many of us have motivations, learning styles, and so on that feel pretty foreign to each other. I've run into this in every making-stuff endeavor I've ever gotten involved in. Unfortunately we also often end up attaching prestige to certain learning styles and motivations over others, or even denying that approaches exist that we ourselves haven't seen in practice or found useful in our own educations.
posted by brainwane at 1:50 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you hire a bunch of unemployed shipwrights to put a roof on your city market ... it'll look seaworthy.
posted by phoque at 3:48 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by phoque at 3:48 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
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I can't tell from the photos where the magic happened, but there's *no way* you can get from sheets of plywood to that beautiful boat working in a garage, on weekends, by hand. Is there? The finished product is beautiful!
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:21 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]