Sous-vide cooking allows you to cook better than the best steakhouse
September 13, 2015 4:04 PM Subscribe
The Food Lab's Complete Guide to Sous-Vide Steak (J. Kenji López-Alt, Serious Eats)
"As you can see, the steak cooked for just one hour stretches and pulls when you tear it. This gives the steak a pleasant amount of chew. It's still tender, but it tastes like a steak. By the time we hit four hours, that chew has been reduced a bit. Connective tissue has broken down and individual muscle fibrils split apart easily instead of sticking together, though a four-hour steak is still pretty decent."
"Head all the way over to the 24 hour mark or beyond, and your steak ends up nearly shredding as you pull it apart. It's a strange mouthfeel: the steak is still plenty juicy (a steak cooked 24 hours loses barely any more moisture than a steak cooked for 1 hour), but the meat shreds instead of offering resistance or chew."Previously: Frozen seared steak, Beer Cooler Sous Vide
Oh dang. This is just the series I needed.
I've posted this on the green a couple times, but if you're looking for a way to dip your toes into the sous-vide method (even though the at-home models are starting to become reasonably priced), you can get there with a temperature controller for around 70 bucks, and much less if you're willing to DIY one. Just hook that temperature controller up to your crock pot (or a hot plate and a pot of water on top!), plop that thermometer into the water bath, set the controller to your desired temperature annnnnnd…sous-vide. They work GREAT for things like soft-poached eggs, and any kind of meat sealed up in a freezer bag using the archimedes principal. This has worked great for an eggs benedict breakfast we threw for a dozen or so friends. We even made chicken and dumplings completely assembled in a bag, held at temperature throughout the day; nothing like something made on the stovetop, but it was fantastic. The crockpot/temp-controller combo works so well, that we probably won't be springing for a proper circulator until something breaks, or we're particularly flush.
Sous vide doesn't replace anything in our kitchen, but as our kid gets older, being able to prep food the night ahead and just have it ready to go for dinner and knowing it won't be just a subpar version of the food you really want to eat (i'm looking at YOU America's test kitchen slowcooker cookbook…) and actually a really interesting meal, even if it is different, is a pretty attractive proposition.
posted by furnace.heart at 4:35 PM on September 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
I've posted this on the green a couple times, but if you're looking for a way to dip your toes into the sous-vide method (even though the at-home models are starting to become reasonably priced), you can get there with a temperature controller for around 70 bucks, and much less if you're willing to DIY one. Just hook that temperature controller up to your crock pot (or a hot plate and a pot of water on top!), plop that thermometer into the water bath, set the controller to your desired temperature annnnnnd…sous-vide. They work GREAT for things like soft-poached eggs, and any kind of meat sealed up in a freezer bag using the archimedes principal. This has worked great for an eggs benedict breakfast we threw for a dozen or so friends. We even made chicken and dumplings completely assembled in a bag, held at temperature throughout the day; nothing like something made on the stovetop, but it was fantastic. The crockpot/temp-controller combo works so well, that we probably won't be springing for a proper circulator until something breaks, or we're particularly flush.
Sous vide doesn't replace anything in our kitchen, but as our kid gets older, being able to prep food the night ahead and just have it ready to go for dinner and knowing it won't be just a subpar version of the food you really want to eat (i'm looking at YOU America's test kitchen slowcooker cookbook…) and actually a really interesting meal, even if it is different, is a pretty attractive proposition.
posted by furnace.heart at 4:35 PM on September 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
Always interesting to see a sous vide thread on the blue. I wish I could pinpoint when I first started getting into this technique. I remember reading an article in the New York Times Magazine about cooking guinea hen using a technique that I now realize was sous vide, and trying to duplicate it by tightly wrapping pieces of guinea hen in plastic wrap and submerging the packages in a carefully-controlled stock pot of water. This must have been around 1991 or os. Then I bought a copy of The Curious Cook: More Kitchen and Science Lore by Harold McGee, which included a chapter on "cooking tender meats well below the boil." LT/LT (low temperature, long time) is, of course, one of the primary implementations of the sous vide cooking technique. I did a lot of that before buying a FoodSaver and my first used laboratory circulator on eBay. Then it was off to the races. Nowadays there are certain things, steak primary among them, that I just don't cook any other way. But the possibilities are endless. In fact, I just finished making a gigantic batch of 100% homemade pastrami for the first time.
posted by slkinsey at 4:38 PM on September 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 4:38 PM on September 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
A sous-vide machine popped up on my facebook advertisements yesterday (their GPS tracking must be *very* sophisticated if they know I've been spending a lot of time in the kitchen lately). Cook Mellow. It's pretty to look at but I'm skeptical of a single-purpose kitchen appliance which requires an always-on internet connection.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 4:50 PM on September 13, 2015
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 4:50 PM on September 13, 2015
Where does Science end and dinner begin? Ooh La La!
posted by Navelgazer at 5:26 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 5:26 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've been using the 1st gen anova since it came out, and I use it at least 4 times a week. I wondered if it would be one of those appliances that are awesome at first but eventually taper off and end up at the back of the cupboard, but it's absolutely the thing I could least live without in the kitchen.
I actually use it so much that it broke and when I asked for advice on the green about re-wiring the power myself I got in trouble... like 200 hours run after the re-wire and I'm not dead in an electrical fire yet, people! I'm actually thinking about replacing it with the anova pro model because the consumer one is made with that plastic/rubber that degrades and gets all sticky.
Chicken and pork are just a revelation with this method... boneless, skinless chicken breasts cooked to 145 degrees are amazing, almost a different meat than breasts cooked conventionally. You can hold them at a lower temp safely, but truthfully they're so juicy at that point that the texture is weird.
I cook steak this way for the convenience, but I don't think it's any better, it's just easier. It does take more time, though. As I type I'm cooking some tenderloin that was left over from a primal I cut up last month... straight from the freezer in a Foodsaver bag to the water bath... and I can hang out for a couple of hours and finish the steak in a pan whenever I feel like it.
I don't actually like cooking fish in it too much, because you kind of need to finish it in a pan anyway, and it cooks so quickly anyway it's not a big deal to just start in that pan. I do get frozen fish from trader joe's that's vacuum packed and just throw it in frozen pretty often.
Serious Eats has been a great resource, even after the product placement made it kind of weird.
Also, I got an email from Anova about their new wifi-enabled cooker, and if you preorder it and enter the code WIFI you can get $50 off. Not sure why you need wifi on one, but $50 is $50.
posted by Huck500 at 5:41 PM on September 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
I actually use it so much that it broke and when I asked for advice on the green about re-wiring the power myself I got in trouble... like 200 hours run after the re-wire and I'm not dead in an electrical fire yet, people! I'm actually thinking about replacing it with the anova pro model because the consumer one is made with that plastic/rubber that degrades and gets all sticky.
Chicken and pork are just a revelation with this method... boneless, skinless chicken breasts cooked to 145 degrees are amazing, almost a different meat than breasts cooked conventionally. You can hold them at a lower temp safely, but truthfully they're so juicy at that point that the texture is weird.
I cook steak this way for the convenience, but I don't think it's any better, it's just easier. It does take more time, though. As I type I'm cooking some tenderloin that was left over from a primal I cut up last month... straight from the freezer in a Foodsaver bag to the water bath... and I can hang out for a couple of hours and finish the steak in a pan whenever I feel like it.
I don't actually like cooking fish in it too much, because you kind of need to finish it in a pan anyway, and it cooks so quickly anyway it's not a big deal to just start in that pan. I do get frozen fish from trader joe's that's vacuum packed and just throw it in frozen pretty often.
Serious Eats has been a great resource, even after the product placement made it kind of weird.
Also, I got an email from Anova about their new wifi-enabled cooker, and if you preorder it and enter the code WIFI you can get $50 off. Not sure why you need wifi on one, but $50 is $50.
posted by Huck500 at 5:41 PM on September 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Honestly just save up a bit longer and get one of the cheaper models from Polyscience. They're unkillable.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:47 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:47 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
.....ooh, Huck500. I may just have my Christmas shopping for my spouse done, there...
posted by sciatrix at 5:49 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 5:49 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
BuddhaInABucket: "A sous-vide machine popped up on my facebook advertisements yesterday (their GPS tracking must be *very* sophisticated if they know I've been spending a lot of time in the kitchen lately). Cook Mellow. It's pretty to look at but I'm skeptical of a single-purpose kitchen appliance which requires an always-on internet connection."
I actually know one of the Mellow team from another site. The reason for the connection is to allow you to talk to it via an app, so you can monitor and adjust settings. To me (been following a lot of sous vide talk and also have an unpredictable schedule), it looks like a neat gadget I wish I could afford.
posted by Samizdata at 5:57 PM on September 13, 2015
I actually know one of the Mellow team from another site. The reason for the connection is to allow you to talk to it via an app, so you can monitor and adjust settings. To me (been following a lot of sous vide talk and also have an unpredictable schedule), it looks like a neat gadget I wish I could afford.
posted by Samizdata at 5:57 PM on September 13, 2015
Honestly just save up a bit longer and get one of the cheaper models from Polyscience.
Eh? Polyscience was the shit back when they were the first company to make high quality circulators specifically designed for the kitchen. But at this point, I think the other manufacturers are eating Polyscience's lunch. I have the Anova Pro model among my several circulators. It has a much higher capacity, much higher flow rate, all metal parts in the water, easy disassembly for cleaning, etc. compared to the Polyscience Discovery and Creative models. Only the Polyscience Professional can really compete, and I would still choose the Anova Pro over the Polyscience Professional, which is twice as expensive.
posted by slkinsey at 6:01 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Eh? Polyscience was the shit back when they were the first company to make high quality circulators specifically designed for the kitchen. But at this point, I think the other manufacturers are eating Polyscience's lunch. I have the Anova Pro model among my several circulators. It has a much higher capacity, much higher flow rate, all metal parts in the water, easy disassembly for cleaning, etc. compared to the Polyscience Discovery and Creative models. Only the Polyscience Professional can really compete, and I would still choose the Anova Pro over the Polyscience Professional, which is twice as expensive.
posted by slkinsey at 6:01 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, if there were no Anova Pro model I'd be looking at Polyscience, but the Anova Pro looks pretty awesome for the price.
That said, I'm all over the Polyscience Smoking Gun, that's on my list this year for sure.
posted by Huck500 at 6:06 PM on September 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
That said, I'm all over the Polyscience Smoking Gun, that's on my list this year for sure.
posted by Huck500 at 6:06 PM on September 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
.....ooh, Huck500. I may just have my Christmas shopping for my spouse done, there...
I'd say lucky spouse, but you'll be the lucky one :)
posted by Huck500 at 6:10 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd say lucky spouse, but you'll be the lucky one :)
posted by Huck500 at 6:10 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm all over the Polyscience Smoking Gun, that's on my list this year for sure.
Just be aware that what you're going to get out of the Smoking Gun is light "surface" or "garnish" kinds of smoke effects. You might be able to give a little hint of smokey flavor to a chicken, for example, but it's not going to be "smoked" by any stretch of the imagination. For a similar product that's a lot less expensive and can be used for real smoking, if that's what you're interested in, have a look at the Smoke Pistol.
posted by slkinsey at 6:24 PM on September 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Just be aware that what you're going to get out of the Smoking Gun is light "surface" or "garnish" kinds of smoke effects. You might be able to give a little hint of smokey flavor to a chicken, for example, but it's not going to be "smoked" by any stretch of the imagination. For a similar product that's a lot less expensive and can be used for real smoking, if that's what you're interested in, have a look at the Smoke Pistol.
posted by slkinsey at 6:24 PM on September 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Cool, thanks.
posted by Huck500 at 6:27 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Huck500 at 6:27 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'll read literally anything that Kenji writes, and with that in mind his epic Food Lab cookbook is coming out next week.
posted by ghostpony at 6:31 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by ghostpony at 6:31 PM on September 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hurm. I know it works, I know it is yummy, but I guess I'm old school and I find sous vide a bit twee, at least as far as restaurants go. I worked at a gastropub earlier this year where they were doing a bunch of sous vide stuff- pork belly, a spicy half chicken, something else. Most of it worked, and I enjoyed talking to tables about it (I'm FOH), but they fired the chef and gm after a while and don't do it anymore. I probably would like it more at home, come to think of it.
posted by vrakatar at 6:39 PM on September 13, 2015
posted by vrakatar at 6:39 PM on September 13, 2015
this post is fully awesome
posted by indubitable at 6:41 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by indubitable at 6:41 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is there any health concern about cooking with plastics at high temperatures for long periods of time?
posted by johnnydummkopf at 7:03 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by johnnydummkopf at 7:03 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Another great Kenji recipe that has never failed me. Not sous-vide but an innovative technique nonetheless. The quality of the crispy skin and the juicy meat makes even meat skeptics convinced.
Whenever I want to make anything I just search for "kenji <foodname>".
posted by breath at 7:23 PM on September 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
Whenever I want to make anything I just search for "kenji <foodname>".
posted by breath at 7:23 PM on September 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
Seconding Greg Nog's link. I followed the same guide to make one for my dad for his birthday. He makes chicken with it regularly and finishes it on the grill. It's been handy for him because my mom gets really worried about germs in her food, so Dad had to overcook the chicken for it to pass her inspection. With the sous vide pretreatment, he can cook large pieces of chicken fully through without overdoing them. And he can set it up before church on Sunday morning, so when they get back dinner can be ready in just a few minutes.
posted by JDHarper at 7:35 PM on September 13, 2015
posted by JDHarper at 7:35 PM on September 13, 2015
I hack electronics all day long but I really prefer something UL/CSA approved in my kitchen environment, especially when it's running overnight.
I use the Dorkfood DSV, $99 on Amazon. Works with any manual crockpot and it works like a charm. Considering how much thermal lag is in a crockpot their PID algorithm is a freaking miracle.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:52 PM on September 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I use the Dorkfood DSV, $99 on Amazon. Works with any manual crockpot and it works like a charm. Considering how much thermal lag is in a crockpot their PID algorithm is a freaking miracle.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:52 PM on September 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
One of these days I will set up one of the cheaper/DIY sous vide options just to play around with the technique. I've had food at restaurants that was cooked this way and it was good but not amazing, but it looks like an interesting method to experiment with.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:01 PM on September 13, 2015
posted by Dip Flash at 8:01 PM on September 13, 2015
But at this point, I think the other manufacturers are eating Polyscience's lunch.
I get the feeling PolyScience has moved on to other things. They had this contraption at the National Restaurant Show. Just your typical food-grade rotary evaporator.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:21 PM on September 13, 2015
I get the feeling PolyScience has moved on to other things. They had this contraption at the National Restaurant Show. Just your typical food-grade rotary evaporator.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:21 PM on September 13, 2015
Even though I do not appreciate amazon making up holidays for sales days, I gave in to their Amazon Prime Day (raagh!) and got an Anova sous vide cooker on sale.
It's super convenient to cook with it. And I go the extremely lazy route. HEB has these pre-marinated/pre-seasoned pork tenderloin dealies and the package they come in is already conveniently sealed airtight, and also hardy enough to survive the sous vide.
posted by subversiveasset at 8:45 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's super convenient to cook with it. And I go the extremely lazy route. HEB has these pre-marinated/pre-seasoned pork tenderloin dealies and the package they come in is already conveniently sealed airtight, and also hardy enough to survive the sous vide.
posted by subversiveasset at 8:45 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been trying to get my family into sous-vide, but they're old school grillers. And SV doesn't lend itself to 15 people at once.
That being said, I brought the Sansaire over to to the parents place in the dead of winter last year when my power went out, and on a whim, we sous-vide'd some old ass Jurassic Park steaks of theirs from the absolute bottom of the freezer. I think they were labeled "2003".
They were bricks. I could have beaten people to death with them. So I put them into a couple of freezer Ziplocs with a pinch of S&P, and a capful of olive oil. They got 120 minutes at ~140F, then I dropped them on Mom's hot as hell 1920's cast iron griddle for 15-30 seconds a side. They ended up buttery soft and tasty as hell. Fire isn't the solution to everything. My recent experience has led me to believe that SV + super hot cast iron griddle = the best steaks ever.
Then I set it up to poach eggs the next morning. Sous-vide/poached eggs on good toast is amazing when you can set the temperature to a tenth of a degree.
I feel like I'm channeling Douglas Adams here, but drowsily pulling out a superbly poached egg, stripping it and smooshing it on a perfectly toasted slab of fantastic toast whilst drinking some really outstanding coffee is what civilization is all about, isn't it?
It's not just me, right?
posted by Sphinx at 9:04 PM on September 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
That being said, I brought the Sansaire over to to the parents place in the dead of winter last year when my power went out, and on a whim, we sous-vide'd some old ass Jurassic Park steaks of theirs from the absolute bottom of the freezer. I think they were labeled "2003".
They were bricks. I could have beaten people to death with them. So I put them into a couple of freezer Ziplocs with a pinch of S&P, and a capful of olive oil. They got 120 minutes at ~140F, then I dropped them on Mom's hot as hell 1920's cast iron griddle for 15-30 seconds a side. They ended up buttery soft and tasty as hell. Fire isn't the solution to everything. My recent experience has led me to believe that SV + super hot cast iron griddle = the best steaks ever.
Then I set it up to poach eggs the next morning. Sous-vide/poached eggs on good toast is amazing when you can set the temperature to a tenth of a degree.
I feel like I'm channeling Douglas Adams here, but drowsily pulling out a superbly poached egg, stripping it and smooshing it on a perfectly toasted slab of fantastic toast whilst drinking some really outstanding coffee is what civilization is all about, isn't it?
It's not just me, right?
posted by Sphinx at 9:04 PM on September 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
I have a polyscience creative that I got a bunch of years ago, and a couple of Anova units. I prefer the Anova units to the polyscience, and they were a hell of a lot cheaper.
The thing I most appreciate in my kitchen is actually my chamber vacuum sealer (Ary Vacmaster 215). I got it to cook sous vide, but I use it all the time for food preservation. It's kind of huge and heavy and it was pretty expensive, but I love the thing.
I'd be psyched to see a rotovap that was even remotely affordable.
posted by drklahn at 9:08 PM on September 13, 2015
The thing I most appreciate in my kitchen is actually my chamber vacuum sealer (Ary Vacmaster 215). I got it to cook sous vide, but I use it all the time for food preservation. It's kind of huge and heavy and it was pretty expensive, but I love the thing.
I'd be psyched to see a rotovap that was even remotely affordable.
posted by drklahn at 9:08 PM on September 13, 2015
Kenji is a national treasure. However, the total lack of facial hair is a surprise. I pictured him with a beard and 'stache like Koji Igarashi...but half-Latino.
posted by reiichiroh at 10:30 PM on September 13, 2015
posted by reiichiroh at 10:30 PM on September 13, 2015
Given that the Anova units that hang over the side of a pot and are about the size of a stick blender are down around $100-150 now, I can't imagine that Polyscience's big deep-fryer-esque ones are selling well. I don't really see much of a benefit to them that would justify the storage space, anyway.
My experience has been that a vacuum sealer isn't really necessary for sous vide cooking either (although I guess it's not really "sous vide" if it's not under vacuum; maybe we need a different term), Ziploc freezer bags with the air pushed out via displacement work just as well.
You can put together a heck of a meal using one of the Anova circulators, some Ziplocs, a soup pot, and a Home Depot blowtorch.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:11 AM on September 14, 2015
My experience has been that a vacuum sealer isn't really necessary for sous vide cooking either (although I guess it's not really "sous vide" if it's not under vacuum; maybe we need a different term), Ziploc freezer bags with the air pushed out via displacement work just as well.
You can put together a heck of a meal using one of the Anova circulators, some Ziplocs, a soup pot, and a Home Depot blowtorch.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:11 AM on September 14, 2015
Having cooked steaks hand cut from our own aged sides for a living, I can only suggest I'll stick to the traditional sear-and-cook-until-done-to-order.
There are no bad cuts of meat, only bad prep methods. And steak, for me, is not low-and-slow.
That method is for much tougher cuts, with fair amounts of fat and connective tissue.
To me, slow cooking a steak is as bad as dry roasting a pot roast.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:13 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are no bad cuts of meat, only bad prep methods. And steak, for me, is not low-and-slow.
That method is for much tougher cuts, with fair amounts of fat and connective tissue.
To me, slow cooking a steak is as bad as dry roasting a pot roast.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:13 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Sphinx: SV doesn't lend itself to 15 people at once.
Au contraire! SV is the perfect thing for large groups. The only limiting factors are the size of your waterbath and the power and throughput of your heater. I've done beefsteak dinners for 100+ people with limited staff and no stove using exclusively SV techniques, and I don't know how I would have done it otherwise.
Kadin2048: Given that the Anova units that hang over the side of a pot and are about the size of a stick blender are down around $100-150 now, I can't imagine that Polyscience's big deep-fryer-esque ones are selling well.
Polyscience also makes clip on immersion circulators. There are reasons to want to use the more expensive and higher powered circulators, but those are largely in commercial or quasi-commercial applications. That said, the Polyscience immersion circulators are just too expensive for what they deliver vis a vis the competition nowadays.
It's pretty clear that decent clip-on immersion circulators will be had for between a hundred and two hundred bucks. For me, this really reduces the appeal of the fifty to a hundred dollar temperature controllers that need a slow cooker or some other self-contained electric heating appliance. The extra hundred bucks gets you much more versatility because it can be used in a wide variety of containers from a saucepot to a cooler, it has better and more accurate temperature control, it circulates the water to eliminate hotspots, and it has a small storage footprint (especially when the space to store the slow cooker is figured in).
posted by slkinsey at 8:31 AM on September 14, 2015
Au contraire! SV is the perfect thing for large groups. The only limiting factors are the size of your waterbath and the power and throughput of your heater. I've done beefsteak dinners for 100+ people with limited staff and no stove using exclusively SV techniques, and I don't know how I would have done it otherwise.
Kadin2048: Given that the Anova units that hang over the side of a pot and are about the size of a stick blender are down around $100-150 now, I can't imagine that Polyscience's big deep-fryer-esque ones are selling well.
Polyscience also makes clip on immersion circulators. There are reasons to want to use the more expensive and higher powered circulators, but those are largely in commercial or quasi-commercial applications. That said, the Polyscience immersion circulators are just too expensive for what they deliver vis a vis the competition nowadays.
It's pretty clear that decent clip-on immersion circulators will be had for between a hundred and two hundred bucks. For me, this really reduces the appeal of the fifty to a hundred dollar temperature controllers that need a slow cooker or some other self-contained electric heating appliance. The extra hundred bucks gets you much more versatility because it can be used in a wide variety of containers from a saucepot to a cooler, it has better and more accurate temperature control, it circulates the water to eliminate hotspots, and it has a small storage footprint (especially when the space to store the slow cooker is figured in).
posted by slkinsey at 8:31 AM on September 14, 2015
For me, this really reduces the appeal of the fifty to a hundred dollar temperature controllers that need a slow cooker or some other self-contained electric heating appliance.
...
it has a small storage footprint (especially when the space to store the slow cooker is figured in).
Maybe.
I already have a crockpot though, so that space is already lost in my pantry! heh.
And if I could find a controller probe with the right temperature rating*, I could, in theory, use it to keep my simple on/off deep fryer at the proper temperature.
*Anyone have a recommendation for a probe in the 350 degree range?
posted by madajb at 8:48 AM on September 14, 2015
...
it has a small storage footprint (especially when the space to store the slow cooker is figured in).
Maybe.
I already have a crockpot though, so that space is already lost in my pantry! heh.
And if I could find a controller probe with the right temperature rating*, I could, in theory, use it to keep my simple on/off deep fryer at the proper temperature.
*Anyone have a recommendation for a probe in the 350 degree range?
posted by madajb at 8:48 AM on September 14, 2015
clvrmnky: And steak, for me, is not low-and-slow.
That method is for much tougher cuts, with fair amounts of fat and connective tissue.
SV technique doesn't have to be "low and slow" as you understand it. Yes, it takes longer to cook a porterhouse sous vide than it takes to broil a porterhouse, but it is still too fast to qualify as "low and slow" in the same sense this term is used to describe techniques used for tough cuts. Tender cuts are only cooked for the amount of time it takes for the center of the steak to reach the target temperature. This is far less than the amount of time needed to convert any collagen to gelatin. Once the steak hits the target temperature, it's quickly browned on the exterior surfaces. This gives an "edge to edge" consistent doneness with 95% of the steak being medium-rare (or whatever) and a very narrow 5% band of crispy external surface. This is simply not possible to achieve using conventional techniques. It also gives the cook the ability to dial in the level of doneness with precision. One of the reasons steak is usually a horrible choice for large parties is because it's difficult to the point of being impossible to nail 150 portions of steak perfectly and have them out to service at the same time. With sous vide, it's easy.
Some people like their steak medium-well, or prefer their medium-rare steak to actually be 10% extra-well, 10% well, 10% medium-well, 10% medium, 50% medium-rare and 10% rare (the usual result of conventional steak techniques) so that it "combines in the mouth" to give the impression of medium-rare. There's nothing wrong with either preference, but needless to say, SV doesn't have much to offer these people.
posted by slkinsey at 9:04 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
That method is for much tougher cuts, with fair amounts of fat and connective tissue.
SV technique doesn't have to be "low and slow" as you understand it. Yes, it takes longer to cook a porterhouse sous vide than it takes to broil a porterhouse, but it is still too fast to qualify as "low and slow" in the same sense this term is used to describe techniques used for tough cuts. Tender cuts are only cooked for the amount of time it takes for the center of the steak to reach the target temperature. This is far less than the amount of time needed to convert any collagen to gelatin. Once the steak hits the target temperature, it's quickly browned on the exterior surfaces. This gives an "edge to edge" consistent doneness with 95% of the steak being medium-rare (or whatever) and a very narrow 5% band of crispy external surface. This is simply not possible to achieve using conventional techniques. It also gives the cook the ability to dial in the level of doneness with precision. One of the reasons steak is usually a horrible choice for large parties is because it's difficult to the point of being impossible to nail 150 portions of steak perfectly and have them out to service at the same time. With sous vide, it's easy.
Some people like their steak medium-well, or prefer their medium-rare steak to actually be 10% extra-well, 10% well, 10% medium-well, 10% medium, 50% medium-rare and 10% rare (the usual result of conventional steak techniques) so that it "combines in the mouth" to give the impression of medium-rare. There's nothing wrong with either preference, but needless to say, SV doesn't have much to offer these people.
posted by slkinsey at 9:04 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
madajb: And if I could find a controller probe with the right temperature rating, I could, in theory, use it to keep my simple on/off deep fryer at the proper temperature.
I'm not sure whether that would do you very much good. It's unclear to me that deep frying requires that level of temperature precision. More to the point, PID controllers are meant to maintain steady-state temperature and foods just aren't in deep fryers long enough for this to happen. Quite the opposite in the home setting: the major limiting factor in deep frying at home is the temperature drop when food is added to the oil. A PID can't help you with that, because subtlety and precision are not called for.
This is why IMO deep frying at home is best done with a huge amount of oil in a very large pot on the stove. The thermal mass of the large quantity of oil helps to minimize the temperature drop and the power of the burner helps to get it back up to temperature as fast as possible. I use a candy thermometer for that.
posted by slkinsey at 9:47 AM on September 14, 2015
I'm not sure whether that would do you very much good. It's unclear to me that deep frying requires that level of temperature precision. More to the point, PID controllers are meant to maintain steady-state temperature and foods just aren't in deep fryers long enough for this to happen. Quite the opposite in the home setting: the major limiting factor in deep frying at home is the temperature drop when food is added to the oil. A PID can't help you with that, because subtlety and precision are not called for.
This is why IMO deep frying at home is best done with a huge amount of oil in a very large pot on the stove. The thermal mass of the large quantity of oil helps to minimize the temperature drop and the power of the burner helps to get it back up to temperature as fast as possible. I use a candy thermometer for that.
posted by slkinsey at 9:47 AM on September 14, 2015
For me, this really reduces the appeal of the fifty to a hundred dollar temperature controllers that need a slow cooker or some other self-contained electric heating appliance.
Ditto. We used to have such a system, like the one Greg Nog mentions above. I found that it was somewhat fiddly to set up and wasn't really, terribly accurate. Ours used a thermocouple, which are notorious for drifting in temperature calibration, and that coupled with the thermal mass of the crockpot meant that temperature control was pretty approximate compared to what the Polyscience circulators can do. I use Polyscience baths and circulators (among others) extensively in my day job. They're bomb proof---we have 20 year-old units that still work fine.
I really welcome a true +/- 0.1C temperature control consumer grade device compared to the +/- 0.5 to 1.5 C variation, depending on the day, that the home-built system we had was capable of. We used it for cheese making, but not for cooking, mostly, until the hand-built regulator broke.
posted by bonehead at 10:19 AM on September 14, 2015
Ditto. We used to have such a system, like the one Greg Nog mentions above. I found that it was somewhat fiddly to set up and wasn't really, terribly accurate. Ours used a thermocouple, which are notorious for drifting in temperature calibration, and that coupled with the thermal mass of the crockpot meant that temperature control was pretty approximate compared to what the Polyscience circulators can do. I use Polyscience baths and circulators (among others) extensively in my day job. They're bomb proof---we have 20 year-old units that still work fine.
I really welcome a true +/- 0.1C temperature control consumer grade device compared to the +/- 0.5 to 1.5 C variation, depending on the day, that the home-built system we had was capable of. We used it for cheese making, but not for cooking, mostly, until the hand-built regulator broke.
posted by bonehead at 10:19 AM on September 14, 2015
I had the pieces together waiting assembly for my own sous vide device for years and finally gave up and got the Anova this year. (Thank you, darling wife, for the father's day gift!) I don't think I'd want a unit that didn't do some amount of circulation.
I'm excited to read this article; I love JKL's stuff and my results with sous vide red meat have been eh so far. Biggest successes have been hard boiled eggs (never gotten an easier or better result) and making my own ricotta.
posted by phearlez at 11:27 AM on September 14, 2015
I'm excited to read this article; I love JKL's stuff and my results with sous vide red meat have been eh so far. Biggest successes have been hard boiled eggs (never gotten an easier or better result) and making my own ricotta.
posted by phearlez at 11:27 AM on September 14, 2015
I'm not sure whether that would do you very much good. It's unclear to me that deep frying requires that level of temperature precision.
I don't know about that. If you don't want greasy doughnuts or oily fried chicken, you need to be pretty close to the proper temperature.
Sure, you don't need to be within a tenth of a degree, but 375 is a lot different than 325.
A PID can't help you with that, because subtlety and precision are not called for.
It's true, the temperature control needs are not particularly sophisticated.
But my electric deep fryer is perfect in every other way. Built in splatter guard, a slick lifting basket, perfectly sized for my household, good thermal mass so it retains heat, fits nicely in its assigned hole in the pantry.
But it has no temp control, it'll just keep heating so long as it's plugged in.
Which leads to a kind of plug in-unplug-drop in food-plug in-unplug-drop food-plug in dance.
Sure, it's probably overkill and potentially fussy, but I like tinkering, so this way I could tinker with sous-vide and deep frying.
Could even whip up some sort of bread dough warmer.
Think of the tasty experiments.
posted by madajb at 12:08 PM on September 14, 2015
I don't know about that. If you don't want greasy doughnuts or oily fried chicken, you need to be pretty close to the proper temperature.
Sure, you don't need to be within a tenth of a degree, but 375 is a lot different than 325.
A PID can't help you with that, because subtlety and precision are not called for.
It's true, the temperature control needs are not particularly sophisticated.
But my electric deep fryer is perfect in every other way. Built in splatter guard, a slick lifting basket, perfectly sized for my household, good thermal mass so it retains heat, fits nicely in its assigned hole in the pantry.
But it has no temp control, it'll just keep heating so long as it's plugged in.
Which leads to a kind of plug in-unplug-drop in food-plug in-unplug-drop food-plug in dance.
Sure, it's probably overkill and potentially fussy, but I like tinkering, so this way I could tinker with sous-vide and deep frying.
Could even whip up some sort of bread dough warmer.
Think of the tasty experiments.
posted by madajb at 12:08 PM on September 14, 2015
But it has no temp control, it'll just keep heating so long as it's plugged in.
Really? Wow. That's seems like it would be a shocking liability concern for the manufacturer. Sounds like an explosive grease fire waiting to happen.
posted by slkinsey at 12:18 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Really? Wow. That's seems like it would be a shocking liability concern for the manufacturer. Sounds like an explosive grease fire waiting to happen.
posted by slkinsey at 12:18 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
More to the point, PID controllers are meant to maintain steady-state temperature and foods just aren't in deep fryers long enough for this to happen.
My Thanksgiving turkey called and wants to say hi.
posted by phearlez at 12:31 PM on September 14, 2015
My Thanksgiving turkey called and wants to say hi.
posted by phearlez at 12:31 PM on September 14, 2015
Ha ha! Touché! Although I'm pretty sure they don't make PID controllers for cajun fryers.
posted by slkinsey at 1:59 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by slkinsey at 1:59 PM on September 14, 2015
joyceanmachine: Because sous vide cooking isn't . . . cooking?
Cooking: "prepare (food, a dish, or a meal) by combining and heating the ingredients in various ways."
Your bizarre objection is dead wrong.
In all seriousness, I'm not sure I understand the objection. Sous vide isn't a beginner cook's technique for a variety reasons, and the article is really helpful to beginner sous vide cooks because...
Not sure what "objection" you're refuting, but sous vide absolutely can be done by those without lots of equipment and training. It's a terrific way to cook in the summertime without heating the house: hot water from the tap, heated slightly further on the stove, and then outside into a thermos container.
posted by IAmBroom at 6:27 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cooking: "prepare (food, a dish, or a meal) by combining and heating the ingredients in various ways."
Your bizarre objection is dead wrong.
In all seriousness, I'm not sure I understand the objection. Sous vide isn't a beginner cook's technique for a variety reasons, and the article is really helpful to beginner sous vide cooks because...
Not sure what "objection" you're refuting, but sous vide absolutely can be done by those without lots of equipment and training. It's a terrific way to cook in the summertime without heating the house: hot water from the tap, heated slightly further on the stove, and then outside into a thermos container.
posted by IAmBroom at 6:27 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyone have a recommendation for a probe in the 350 degree range?
The temperature controller I linked goes pretty high..just over 500F I believe, but I've only taken it up to 375. This is much higher than typical sous vide applications…which is one of the reasons I purchased it; the dutch oven + hotplate + temperature controller combo can be used for deep frying. I have used it to crank out unhealthy levels of donuts for our whole neighborhood. It holds the temp really well, and keeps it damn stable. It works so well, that I don't really understand why all stoves are build with PID's hooked to each burner, with a thermocouple attachment on deck. I would use THE SHIT out of something like that.
My set up though..I mean, don't get me wrong, its sketch as fuck. There's no planet that it is NSF certified on. Pregnant women and children aren't allowed on the patio when its set up with hot oil going. Its like a cooking rig that would fit seamlessly into the mad max aesthetic; totally unsafe, and totally fucking badass.
But those Malasadas were the fucking shit, and I made a bunch of coin from that illegal, unlicensed neighborhood donut feed- i mean..'pop up.'
posted by furnace.heart at 7:47 PM on September 14, 2015
The temperature controller I linked goes pretty high..just over 500F I believe, but I've only taken it up to 375. This is much higher than typical sous vide applications…which is one of the reasons I purchased it; the dutch oven + hotplate + temperature controller combo can be used for deep frying. I have used it to crank out unhealthy levels of donuts for our whole neighborhood. It holds the temp really well, and keeps it damn stable. It works so well, that I don't really understand why all stoves are build with PID's hooked to each burner, with a thermocouple attachment on deck. I would use THE SHIT out of something like that.
My set up though..I mean, don't get me wrong, its sketch as fuck. There's no planet that it is NSF certified on. Pregnant women and children aren't allowed on the patio when its set up with hot oil going. Its like a cooking rig that would fit seamlessly into the mad max aesthetic; totally unsafe, and totally fucking badass.
But those Malasadas were the fucking shit, and I made a bunch of coin from that illegal, unlicensed neighborhood donut feed- i mean..'pop up.'
posted by furnace.heart at 7:47 PM on September 14, 2015
This whole thing about PIDs is just marketing fluff for the gullible to justify overpriced appliances. The thermal mass of the sous vide system means that you could get plus or minus one-half degree control with just a simple on/off switch.
If you already use a twenty-cent 8-bit microcontroller for your thermostat then you can add literally 6 lines of code and you have a PID controller. Of course, then you could also comment out two lines of that PID code, zeroing the integral and differential terms and wouldn't see any difference in the cooker.
Your only real limitation is your ability to accurately measure the temperature, whatever that means, considering not every point in the system is measured.
posted by JackFlash at 8:26 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you already use a twenty-cent 8-bit microcontroller for your thermostat then you can add literally 6 lines of code and you have a PID controller. Of course, then you could also comment out two lines of that PID code, zeroing the integral and differential terms and wouldn't see any difference in the cooker.
Your only real limitation is your ability to accurately measure the temperature, whatever that means, considering not every point in the system is measured.
posted by JackFlash at 8:26 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well there's a certain hardware life value in the PID, for the relay's duty cycle if not the heating coil.
posted by phearlez at 6:43 AM on September 15, 2015
posted by phearlez at 6:43 AM on September 15, 2015
It works so well, that I don't really understand why all stoves are build with PID's hooked to each burner, with a thermocouple attachment on deck. I would use THE SHIT out of something like that.
Obviously PID control is better suited for an electric or induction cooktop. I don't know what % of homes in America are using gas cooktops compared to electric.
General Electric introduced an induction cooktop with bluetooth thermocouple accessory earlier this year.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:18 AM on September 15, 2015
Obviously PID control is better suited for an electric or induction cooktop. I don't know what % of homes in America are using gas cooktops compared to electric.
General Electric introduced an induction cooktop with bluetooth thermocouple accessory earlier this year.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:18 AM on September 15, 2015
I have never understood why they don't build in simple timers for electric burners/stoves. Push the button for each 15m you want to keep it on. Would be a hugely useful safety feature and help prevent burners left on which cause fires and burns. Pennies in parts.
posted by phearlez at 7:43 AM on September 15, 2015
posted by phearlez at 7:43 AM on September 15, 2015
I have never understood why they don't build in simple timers for electric burners/stoves.
I would make it my mission in life to hunt down the engineering team who implemented that and the managers and marketers who thought it up, to then send them to a re-education camp with endless 24-hour lectures on how to raise reptiles and enforced self-criticism. I would burn their factories to the ground, then salt that ground with nickle and lye. I would mandate that their wholesalers and distributors wear locking collars which beeped like a microwave every thirty seconds, and sprayed d-limonene in their faces when the brand name was mentioned.
In short, I am not a fan of this idea, and wish to unsubscribe from your newsletter.
posted by bonehead at 8:38 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would make it my mission in life to hunt down the engineering team who implemented that and the managers and marketers who thought it up, to then send them to a re-education camp with endless 24-hour lectures on how to raise reptiles and enforced self-criticism. I would burn their factories to the ground, then salt that ground with nickle and lye. I would mandate that their wholesalers and distributors wear locking collars which beeped like a microwave every thirty seconds, and sprayed d-limonene in their faces when the brand name was mentioned.
In short, I am not a fan of this idea, and wish to unsubscribe from your newsletter.
posted by bonehead at 8:38 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I will accept that as an explanation of "why."
posted by phearlez at 9:09 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 9:09 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
In all seriousness, I'm not sure I understand the objection. Sous vide isn't a beginner cook's technique for a variety reasons, and the article is really helpful to beginner sous vide cooks because it points out a number of basic things that have one effect in standard cookery, but another in sous vide conditions. And it's not like Serious Eats hasn't done a shitload of simple, non-sous vide stuff.
posted by joyceanmachine at 4:29 PM on September 13, 2015 [1 favorite]